It's A Saturday Morning Bonus Podcast For 04-27-24

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The Michael Berry Show. With thepro Palestinian protests on college campuses across the
country, we thought it was importantto really expose that what's going on in
the Middle East is much more complicatedthan people will let on. So we

(00:23):
pulled an interview between Jordan Peterson anda fellow named massab Hussein Yusuf and they
get into the real root of theconflict in the Middle East, and they
talk about Yasser Arafat's divisive influence.You know, you got to realize Black

(00:45):
Lives Matter doesn't want harmony in thiscountry. They need strife and division.
That's how they raise money. You'regoing to hear how the Hamas and this
Palacetenian cause had spread its radical rootsacross the world. This is not about

(01:07):
the Palestinians, mind you, nobodycares that much about a group and a
little No, this is about somethingmuch bigger. This is gonna be You're
gonna hear about how masab Usif spenttime behind bars. You're gonna hear what
led him to get out of prison. To put this into perspective. Massab

(01:33):
Hassan Yusuf born in nineteen seventy eight, So what is he forty six,
he was a Palestinian militant. Atnineteen years old, he started working undercover
for Israel's security Service, which continueduntil he moved to the US in two
thousand and seven. He was knownas the Green Prince, and he became

(01:57):
an indispenser within the Hamas leadership forthe Israeli Secret Service Security Service, and
he he exposed numerous acts of terrorism, suicide bombings, assassination plots against Jews.
His father is Sheik Hassan Yusef,a co founder of Hamas. This

(02:23):
guy knows a lot of things.So anyway, I hope you find it
interesting. Hello, everybody. Ihad the opportunity today to talk to mister
Mossam Hassan Yusef, who's a verycomplicated person. He spent a lot of

(02:45):
his life north of Jerusalem. Hisfather is Sheikh Hassan Yusef, who's a
co founder of Hamas. He toldme that he loved his father, but
came to believe that his orientation inthe world was deeply misguided. He said

(03:06):
the same thing about his culture ingeneral. I had a very brutal childhood.
He grew up during a sequence ofantifadas, became conversant with bloodshed and
the death of children at a veryearly age in his life, and that
isn't the worst of it by alarge margin. He started to work for

(03:31):
the Israeli intelligence in nineteen ninety seven. He was born in nineteen seventy eight
and was a very reliable source forthem in relationship to the doings of Hamas.
He involved himself in the prevention ofsuicide bombings most particularly. We talked

(03:55):
quite broadly about the situation in theMiddle East, about the culture that he
was raised in, about the transformationof his attitude towards Israel as a state,
the Israelis as people, his understandingof what constituted Palestine, and the

(04:16):
general situation in the Middle East.It's a very intense interview, to say
the least. I suppose. Partof what I walked away from it concluding
was that you know, fools rushin where angels fear to tread, and
everybody has an opinion about Israel andGaza, and most of us don't have

(04:38):
the wisdom or the experience to doanything but remain silent in the face of
what's happening there. You can watchlisten to oss abusef and draw your own
conclusions about the catastrophe unfolding in theMiddle East. Inclusion was that alliance with

(05:01):
the Israelis is the best pathway forward, not only for the West but for
the Arab world. There's many peoplein the air world who believe that as
well. You know, it's whythe Abraham Accords are holding in face even
in the face of Iran's attempts totear that accord to shreds. So buckle
up. It's a wild ride.So obviously there's a terrible mess in the

(05:28):
Middle East, and everybody has anopinion about it, but everyone's also woefully
under what would you call it underinformedwith regards to the situation there, because
it's unbelievably complicated, and so Ithink people take sides and make opinions without

(05:49):
knowing the first thing about what's actuallyhappening. And so I want to ask
you a bunch of like really basicquestions and we can we can flash out
the landscape for everybody who's watching andlistening. So the first question I'd like
to ask you is what is Hamas? Exactly? How would you characterize it?

(06:11):
Before actually we say what is Hamas, we need to ask ourselves what
is Palestine, Okay, because Palestineis nonexistential and it was never a country.
It's not ethnic group, it's nota religion, it's not a faith.
It's a colonial entity created by theBritish that lived for about twenty five

(06:36):
years and Jews, Arabs, Jews, Christians, Zionists, we're called Palestinians.
Before the termination of the British Mandate, it was called the British Mandate

(06:57):
of Palistine, so the mandated itselfhad the named Palestine. Now this has
all taken place after World War One, when after the collapse of the Ottoman
nam right right, right, Sothe empire collapses, there's questions about how
the political boundary should be drawn.The British established this state known as Palestine,

(07:26):
and so what should people think aboutthat? Exactly? Like, what
do you think people should think aboutthe fact that the British were involved.
I mean, they won World WarOne and the Ottoman Empire collapsed, so
there was some mopping up to do, and often those things are done in
a hurry and with less than optimalinformation. Let's say, yes, well,
the Ottoman Empire continued for about fourhundred years. During that time,

(07:53):
they ethnically cleansed the Jewish people fromtheir land, which explains why the Jewish
people were all over the place.After World War One and all the atrocities
and the prosecution of Jewish people,they felt the need to seek a refuge
and the homeland was the best optionfor the Jewish people. Now, this

(08:16):
led to clashes between the colonizer,which was the British Empire, and the
Jewish people. The Jewish people foughtfor their independence and they should blood in
the process. Also, the Arabsdid the same. In nineteen forty eight,
when the United the Nations divided theland, given the opportunity to the

(08:39):
Jews and the Arabs to build andestablish their own states. The Jews declared
their independence, but the Arabs declaredwar against the Jews. And I think
this is a very important point tounderstand. There was no such a thing

(09:00):
as Palestine, and when we talkabout the British Mandate of Palestine, it
was never a state. It wasjust a transitional period from the collapse of
the Ottoman Empire to the termination ofthe British man date and that was less
than twenty eight years, so thattermination was in nineteen forty eight. In

(09:24):
nineteen forty seven seven. Okay,okay, So why in your estimation weren't
two states established at that time astate for the Palestinian Arabs and a state
for the Jews. From Muslim pointof view, and this is where it

(09:46):
gets strict, this is where nobodywants to talk about the ideological religious dimension
of this war. From Islamic pointof view, the al akxamosk and the
surrounding areas does not define boundary.The surrounding areas could be one hundred miles,

(10:07):
could be five hundred miles. Isan Islamic trust that no Muslim leader
has the authority to give it awayto the non Muslims. So when the
Jewish people return to their homeland,the Muslims outraged. And that's the most
fundamental reason and motive for the Arabsand Muslims to fight against Israel, because

(10:33):
they consider that territory as an Islamicland, right, And that's the mask
that's built on what was the exactlyit's actually the history of the mosque is
about approximately thirteen hundred years, butthe Jewish temple beneath is a lot older

(10:54):
than that, and the Jewish ruinsin Judea and Samaria is still erected,
actually, and the Jewish people haveoverwhelming evidence of artifacts and archaeology that support
their existence over centuries millennius, butthe Muslims don't. There is no currency,

(11:20):
there is no book, there isno Bible. There is only a
building that is thirteen hundred years old. And this is why for the Jewish
people don't have a problem in principleto coexist with other ethnic groups like the
even the Zionist movement did not havea problem to have two said solution back

(11:41):
in the day. Why the Muslimsrefuse completely having a Jewish existence on that
land. The same way in Mecca, non Muslims are not allowed to inter
Mecca, even to drive through Mecca, the same thing they want the situation
to be in Jerusalem. How didyou how did you come to these conclusions?

(12:05):
I mean, I don't imagine thisis how you looked at the world
when you were young, So howdid you how did you come to these
conclusions? I understand that your father, Sheik Hassan Yusef, a co founder
of Hamas, so obviously that's complicatedto say the least. So when did
tell me how you looked at thingswhen you were a young man, and

(12:28):
then what what events in your lifestarted to change your mind? Since I
was very young, had how oldare you now? I'm forty five,
forty five okay, okay, soyou were born in about nineteen eighty,
nineteen seventy eight, seventy eighty.Yeah, So the heath crickter, thinking

(12:48):
from the early beginning of my life, when the mullah told the funeral crowd
that the angels of are going tocome back and integate this deceased in the
grave. They're going to bring hissoul back, They're going to torture him,

(13:11):
and if he does not answer theright question, it's going to be
an open hell. I went backto the graveyard and I investigated. I
was only ten years old, andsince that point of my life, I
did not find death intimidating as muchas actually became my drive to seek a

(13:31):
higher truth. It led me.So tell me about that again. I
don't understand that story exactly what eventwas done. So basically, in the
Islamic belief there is something called thegrave torture. This is a device the
religious authorities used to control the Muslimpopulation. When the person dies in the

(13:56):
grave, supposedly there's torture, there'sintegration. If the person doesn't know who
is his God, who's his prophet, if he failed to answer the questions
regarding and the religion, they're goingto be tortured painfully. They're like like
a last judgment sort of. Yes, but it happens in that transansitional period.

(14:24):
So because people die, you know, and they've been dying for thousands
of years. So when the afterlife hell is going to happen, which
is a fundamental thing in Islam,the afterlife, heaven and help, so
many people die and is their torture. So they come up with a story

(14:46):
that there is a grave torture.Whether Muhammad said this or not, but
it's widely believed in the Islamic faith, and many people are afraid. When
when I was very young, Iasked all my friends to go go back
with me to the cemetery, andnone of them agreed, And when I
went back, I was terrified.Eventually I did not hear any screaming,

(15:13):
any torture, and I put myear to the ground trying you did this
alone. I did this alone becausenobody, none of my friends would come
back with the graveyard was terrified justduring the day. It was during the
day, during the day, buteventually I found my piece even at nighttime.
And this might sound a bit psychic, but I reached the point that

(15:37):
was my challenge to myself. Wherewas I able to lay down in an
open grave and look at the starsat midnight? How old you when you
did that? I was maybe twelvethirteen years old. What do you think
drove you to do that? It'smy fear of death. Yeah, yeah,
because the entire cust usually people avoidedrather than confront it. Well,

(16:00):
it sounds strange, but this iswhen I made peace with death. And
this is actually what empowers me,what empowered me throughout my journey. Right,
So that's very young when you didthat. Yes, how many times
did you go visit the grave?So basically we were just next to the
graveyard. And this this is notactually the most important thing of observing death

(16:26):
and having an early age encounter withdeath that the first Personian in the Father
started when I was living in thatneighborhood. So and you were living where
exactly right next to the cemetery.Okay, so here's the cemetery war and
here's my here's my bid. OkayAnd where are you geographically located at.

(16:49):
That's Ramallah and the Alberra to thenorth of Jerusalem, okay, okay,
to near the capital of what's theParsona Okay, okay, So you're north
of Jerusalem, yes, right,But this was we were at the heart
of the conflict. And now allthe bloodshed or the youngsters who got shot

(17:11):
during the first person anivoda, wewere buried next door. So I guarantee
you that there is no one inthat conflict that witnessed firsthand bloodshed as much
as it did as a child.Hundreds of people were buried next door,
whether they died naturally or they diedbecause of the conflict or internal conflict between

(17:37):
Hamas and Fatahwerino. They shot eachother or stabbed each other. So the
entire conflict was displayed in front ofmy eyes as a child, and I
couldn't find a stronger motive why arewe suffering? Why are we dying?
And who's doing this to us?Of course, the narrative on the Personian

(18:02):
street that this is Israel, thisis the Jewish people killing us. And
as a child, I did nothave the power to discern, to see
a higher truth. How could Ithe same thing with the children now,
because they suffer the consequences of war, but they don't realize or understand how

(18:22):
the world originated. So in thatsituation, I had the trauma of the
first Personian Intifada, and all thememories stay with me. This is what
empowers me to carry on. Andthat was when about that would be nineteen
eighty seven, eighty seven, nineteeneighty seven to nineteen ninety two, nineteen
ninety what's the definition of antifada?Chaos? People? Could it uprising?

(18:48):
But the very definition not only ofintifada of Palestine, very similar definitions.
It's chaos, it's disorder, it'santi establishment. How does it arise?
Simply? Yes, Arara Fat sittingIntonigia, this is supposed to be the
father of the Palestinian revolutions. Yeah, the same. Yes, you're a

(19:11):
Fat who died with like four billiondollars. That a lot yess a lot
more. Yes, Arah Fat wasan Egyptian artist. He was born in
Egypt with an Egyptian accident. Itwas so obvious to know that his Egyptian,
but everybody was in denial that he'sPedestinian and he is the father of

(19:33):
the Peresilian Revolution. After they werekicked out of Jordan, of Lebanon and
the ind of Intonia, some twothousand miles away, they came up with
the idea to engineer the Indie Father. They wanted trouble, but from within
they knew that this could be alot more effective than trying to destroy Israel

(19:59):
from outside, and they sent childrento die. This has been their mechanism,
their strategy, and whose day whenI say they all those who are
complicit in this continuous crime, allthose who sacrifice children for power and for
money. It's a fundamental part ofthat culture. We have to understand this

(20:23):
first was the ideological dimension that aboutthen sacrificing children is not something that makes
them feel guilty. It's acceptable inthat culture. So now, as a
student, mask men used to comeand we were just fifth and sixth grade,

(20:45):
we were very young, and theywould force all students to evacuate the
school. They paralyzed the educational system, they paralyzed economy, transportation, and
they wanted complete chaos. Another today, I asked myself, if you were
fighting against Israel, why would youstop the education and the economy and all

(21:10):
other aspects of the Arab life inthe West Bank. This is what intifada
means. So instead of going toschool, we stayed at home. For
the first two or three years ofthe first Personian Antifada, we did not
go to school. Now. Instead, many of the children got engaged in

(21:37):
stone throwing and this became our game. I was part of that game,
and many of my friends got shotin the process throwing stones at the idea
or what we used to call themsettlers, just clashing. Of course,
many civilians got hurt in the process, so they did not want to go

(22:00):
to schools. And I did notunderstand why. What about the economy?
What about the people who were forcedto shut down their stores and if they
did not obey, they became traitors. And in the morning they came back
to their to their stores and theywere burnt down to ashes. So by
the means of intimidation, yes,are fat sitting in luxury like Hania today,

(22:26):
sitting in luxury in Qatar. Andwhat's in common between all these artists
that they were outsiders living outside whilethey wanted the children to die on their
behalf. Because what really globalized theIntifada or the Palestinian cause is the children.

(22:51):
During the first person in Nevada,when the world saw a child in
the face of modern army, thatwas outrageous and everybody sympathied with the cause.
So how did the leaders, howdid the leaders of the INTERFATA benefit
personally from putting children on the frontline? How what's the money pipeline?

(23:15):
Precisely, I mean Arafat ended upwith an absolute bloody fortune, like an
insane fortune, and I know thesame thing is happening, But how exactly
is that monetized. It's the sufferingof children produces an influx of foreign aid.
That's then then that's then pocketed.Essentially, yes, because on one

(23:36):
hand they delegitimize Israel. Israel becomea child killer, right right, then
there is no one in the worldthat does not sympathize with children dying.
So there is no more destructive orpowerful whipping in the hands of corrupt revision

(24:03):
revolution that don't want to fight.They didn't have the courage to actually fight
in combat, but they prefer thattheir children would die on their behalf.
In the meantime, delegitimize is Rareand globalize their cause. The international community

(24:26):
don't know the reality one hundred percenton the ground. They don't understand this
game. Even up to now,they see Hannas using children as human shields,
which is very obvious. This iswhat Hannas wanted from this war.
The international community is still in denial. So when children dying, this will

(24:48):
lead to more chaos. It willlead to war, will lead to today
a global chaos. How how doyou deflate the tension? You deflect the
tension by go into the middleman,pay him off and he's going to stop
the madness. And this is howthey paid off, yes, paid off

(25:11):
Hamas. This is the Gazza wartoday. This is not the first one.
This is the fifth one. Andevery time Hamas started the war,
they used human shields, children died. Hamas exaggerated the numbers, the statistics.
They weren't accurate. The international communitybent over and submitted to a ceasefire,

(25:33):
which basically guaranteed Hamas staying in power. But now, how do you
silence Hamas for a while by givingthem lots of money? But this time
Hamas thought they could double them onhuman shields by putting boogie traps all over
the place, schools, hospitals,masks. They did not leave any secret

(25:56):
location in Gaza without usually using itas a shooting pad, digging hundreds of
miles of tunnels beneath one of thosepopulated areas on Earth. How Come that
was then widely known? How comethat wasn't widely known in the West.
Well, this is obvious, Thisis obvious, But the world is in

(26:18):
denial because it's much easier to condemnIsrael. You know, when we have
close to two billion Muslims repeating acertain narrative, a force narrative that is
basis, that's say Palestine, andwe say the very foundation of this narrative,
there's no such a thing as Palestine. It never existed. But everybody
suddenly became a pro Palestine or theit fits into the oppressor oppressed narrative,

(26:44):
victor, it's the victim absolutely narrative. It's a victim mentality. So now
even in the United States, theanti bankers, those who are in debt
or anti establishment, communists, feminists, socialists, Islamists are coming in the
same room protesting or opposing as proPalestine. Yeah, well, what is
Palestine? You are extreme opposites thatyou should not be in the same avenue

(27:11):
at all. Yeah, without withoutIsrael, you would be conspiring to destroy
each other. It's yes a communists, clearly, but suddenly now you are
pairing. So this phenomenon of Palestine, it just it's basically it shows you
falsehood versus truth. And yeah,well there's something really fundamental to that victim

(27:33):
victimizer narrative, right, It's underlyingall of this, and if you can
tap into that, then you getall the well, you certainly get all
the left wing radicals on your sideinstantly, because there of course one hundred
percent bought into the victim victimizer narrative, and it enables them to explain the
world and also to be moral,because all you have to do is identify
with the hypothetical victim the thing Isee happening in Palestine, you can clear

(27:59):
up any misconcier on my part islike I've thought for decades that the Palestinians
are sacrificial victims for any outside powersthat want to delegitimize Israel. And it
doesn't matter how many Palestinians die,because they're essentially expendable. And that seems
to me particularly true in relationship toIran. So it's completely in Iran's fundamental

(28:22):
interest to foment this chaos that youdescribed. It's not in the best interest
of the Palestinians in any thing likethe meetium to long run, but it
doesn't matter as long as the troublekeeps occurring. It's hard on Israel,
it's hard on the United States.It helps Iran maintain its like its iron
grip. It obviously seems to meobvious that many people in the air world

(28:45):
are working, are waking up tothat, and have woken up to that.
I think that's why the Abraham Accordshave more or less held through this,
because there are powerful forces allied againstIran, most fundamentally, but it's
in their best interest to keep themisery in Palestine Palestine going as long as

(29:07):
it possibly can. And my suspicionsare that what happened on October seventh was
command directly please you know, feelfree to disagree with me, but this
is how it looks to me,is that the Iranians decided that it was
time to stir the pot and theyproduced this massacre, and they hope they
provoke Israel into exactly the sort ofreaction that Israel is having and that Israel

(29:30):
would take the threat extraordinarily seriously andmove in and as their military victory mounted,
public opinion would turn against them andit would fragment the Abraham Accords.
I suspect that was their plan.What do you think about that? Is
that? Is that in accordance withyour understanding of the situation. Absolutely,
this is Irun's attempt to actually rearrangethe region. Right, I don't want

(29:56):
to go too far, but alsoChina and Russia have ambition of reshaping the
world, changing the world order.But we don't want to go too far
because God only knows how that's goingto turn out. But it's basically around
Russia China. They made it veryclear that they don't want the United States

(30:19):
monopoly over power. They want tochange the world order. Put and understands.
He understands completely what it really meantfor Hamas to go and ethnically cleansed
twenty Jewish communities. And it wasnot coincidental right after the Ukraine Russian War,
where all the attention was at Europe, and we saw after what happening

(30:45):
as nobody talked about the Ukraine.Right, when you bring the three major
religions and make them clash. Somehowthe Hamas was the trigger. Probably I
doubt that I must understand the KGBand the Putin's play, but they are

(31:08):
part of it, and the Putinis complicit in this situation, so Iron
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(32:20):
so Iran does not act on itsown. You know when when they launched,
for example, hundreds of ballistic missilesin the twenty first century, this
is a major attack. I haven'twitnessed this in our left time, maybe
the Iraqi War, but it wasit was not on this scale. So
anyway, yes, these people don'tcare for the global security. They are

(32:45):
irresponsible and the worse than this thatwe have experience with the communists or let's
say communist Islamic ideologies that they reachedat the end, they failed. The
Communist Islamic model did not bear fruit, It did not emancipate humanity, did

(33:05):
not solve the human problem. Andthey still insist on replacing capitalism. Yeah,
I don't think capitalism is the perfectsolution, but it's the better option
for sure. So anyway, theinsisting and they want this to keep going.
And when we have a weak leadership, with due respect, the Biden

(33:31):
administration is not showing leadership. Andin the Muslim culture, the Arab culture,
they don't understand tolerance. There isno such a thing, not in
the Muslim consciousness. Maybe forgiveness,but not tolerance, and tolerance is mostly
perceived as weakness. And I speakas someone who grew up in that culture.

(33:57):
So every time, you know,when Trump was there, for example,
everybody was terrified of him, impredictableand you don't know what he's going
to do next. So he movedthe American embassy to Jerusalem. Nobody there
even to challenge Yeah, right,yes, not even riots or any of
that. Right, yeah, butnow the Obama administration, then now the

(34:22):
Biden administration and the Americans and theAmerican power is not they've enabled I ran,
yes, yeah. One of thethings that appalled me when when Biden
took office is that I've been followingthe Abraham Courts quite closely because I thought
they were well really quite the miracle. And I knew from talking to people

(34:45):
who were involved firsthand, that theSaudi's were very interested in having that process
continue and very inclined to sign on. And my sense with the Biden administration
was that that got scuttled because theDemocrats were completely unwilling to give Trump any
credit for anything he did during hisadministration. And I thought that was absolutely

(35:07):
unforgivable because it would have been andthe Democrats could have pulled this off.
They could have brought Saudi Arabia intothe Abraham courts, and they squandered the
opportunity. And that's a complete catastrophe, as far as I'm concerned, an
unforgivable catastrophe. And you know herewe are now as a consequence of it,
at least in part. Let's goback to when you were thirteen.

(35:28):
I want to pick up the threadof that story. Okay, so you're
seeing all this catastrophe, this chaosthat you describe that redounds to the benefit
of the con men who are runningthe show, for example, and that
is there to delegitimize Israel and theUnited States, and to redound to the
credit let's save the Iranians operating inthe background. You're seeing all the consequences

(35:51):
of this firsthand. You decide thatfor a variety of complicated reasons, you
decide that you're going to face yourfear of death. You have this graveyard.
Next, you're going there to investigateinto experiment. What was the consequence
of doing that for you? Andthen how does that tie in with your
transformation of worldview over time? WhenI was very young, and this is

(36:17):
stuff I don't like to talk aboutbecause I choose not to be a victim.
Yeah, so I don't like tobecome vulnerable because people think that you're
weak. Stuff that I don't haveto talk about. But I think there's
no way around it because many peopleask, you know, what motivates you
and where are you coming from.When I was very very young, I

(36:42):
was reaped in a culture, ina culture that would kill the rapists,
but also they would kill the victim. So I never told anybody about that

(37:04):
story. I never got any support, And howld you I was five or
six years old when that happened.Now I had to hear on my own,
and it was a hill of ajourney in a society that did not
have mercy that they prefer that Iwould disappear, so I don't bring shame

(37:24):
on them, right, And Iwitnessed so many women being killed after being
raped. That the father would preferto kill his daughter to bury the shame
with her, not to have toface the society that his daughter was raised.

(37:45):
What type of mentality is this,What type of religion is this?
And this is not just a culture, okay? Does it reflect on his
inability to protect her? Is thatit's the source of the shame. It's
his status, it's status, it'shis the father of He could not protect
his daughter. Yeah, and nowmaybe the daughter is pregnant. This was

(38:06):
before abortion et. Okay, thedaughter is pregnant, what is he going
to do with the child? No, he prefers to kill the daughter.
He does not want to go evento the to the degree that his grandchild
is a result of a incident.So and from the seventh century in Islam

(38:32):
or in Arabia, they killed theinfants. So when I say sacrificing children,
this is not a coincidental. It'srooted in that culture. So for
me, it was in just thatI had to actually carry the burden instead

(38:53):
of getting the support from the family, from the society, like at least
to come and say who did it. Today, I'm forty five years old,
I'm very strong man. I canconfront the whole universe if necessary,
And up to now, none ofthem asked the question who did it?
And by the way, I hadthe power to kill the predator down he

(39:17):
is probably living in a nightmare.Why I didn't actually harm him because later
on I got lots of power,even when I was back in the territory,
but I choose not to. Insteadof going after the rapist, I
went after the belief system. Ah. And this is where I need to
create the change I see. Soyou the what's so called the Islam And

(39:43):
I know this is very sensitive topic. If the belief system, if Allah
thinks that the rapists and the rapeare equal and they deserve the same punishment,
then this God does not have authorityover my life. And this is
where start questioning the entire belief system. And I rebelt, how come you're
still alive? Well, they tryto kill me, and they're still trying

(40:07):
to be bad. They have beentrying to assassinate me politically, at least
all these progressives and Muslim brotherhood wearingall type of masks in the United States.
They have been trying to discredit me. So I cannot even speak for
myself to defend myself because I'm speakingon behalf all the wounded children in the

(40:27):
region, and I know their gameand I know they don't care for the
children. Instead, my father sacrificedme. He said, this is not
my son, and I don't knowme. If you want to kill him,
his blood is allowed. So whenyou have to choose between a hypothetical
god that does not even exist andthe future of children or your own child,

(40:50):
well, we have a fundamental problemhere. Then you come posing to
tell the rest of the universe thatIslam is a religion of peace. We
know we have a big problem here. We have to talk about it.
I'm going I start talking about this. I got canceled. Yeah, you
got canceled. So and now I'mlabeled Islam of a what Islam of wobe.

(41:14):
I'm confronting this thing and I'm willingto die in its pursuit because there's
no other way. Only the truthcan set people free, Only the truth.
The same thing with Palestine, Ittotally depends on the destruction of Israel
in order for us to see whatPalistine is, and the manifestation of Palestine

(41:36):
requires the destruction of Israel. Samething with the Islamic state. It requires
the destruction of civilization, all civilizationscombined, in order to achieve this global
state called Khilafa. But we don'tknow how it is going to look like

(41:57):
that, So we have first todied for them to live. Then they
can't prove themselves. It's if thereis anything that defines madness, this is
madness. So you were hurt verybadly when you were very young, and
then you lived through the Antifada Intofada, and you were right beside the graveyard,

(42:22):
and you decided that you're going toconfront death relatively directly and overcome your
fear of it. You were doingsome religious experimentation really at the same time.
Then you said that you were testingout this hypothesis that there was torture
in the grave. You did thatalone because your friends wouldn't come along with
you, which is like hardly surprising. So you said that you also decided

(42:45):
with regards to being raped, thatyou were The proper response to that wasn't
to go after the person specifically whowas responsible, but to go after something
deeper than that, which was thebelief system that God gave that gave rise
to this problem. All right,So now you're you're thirteen, Are these

(43:06):
ideas already in your imagination? Like, when do you start sorting it?
When was it that you started sortingthis out? Some of them were in
the form of feelings, just agut feeling. I did not have the
mean to express them, but Iknew them. It was not concidental that
I could not tell my own fatherabout the situation. But later on I

(43:30):
knew that my punishment is death.So today I have the power to express
myself. I didn't know everything atthat time, but believe or not,
I felt it that this is thissociety cannot be trusted. And this is

(43:51):
why today when I stand and tellthe world anyone who identifies as a Muslim,
consider them as a threat. Idon't trust them. And people say,
oh, you cannot generalize. Thisis like insane what you say,
No, it's not insane, becauseif their belief system has sentenced me to

(44:15):
death many times for crimes that Ihaven't committed, then you pause. As
a Muslim, you carry that identity. How am I supposed to feel towards
you. It's like coming to aJewish refugi during the Nazi era and say
I am a Nazi come with me. I'm not gonna hurt you. No,
you're taking the identity of the Naziregime. And whether you are the

(44:39):
bad cup or the good cup,it doesn't matter. You are serving the
same establishment. And I'm tired ofthis moderate versus extremists. Every individual has
the responsibility to know what they areidentifying with. My individuality is above all
religions and above all gods. Idon't accept to just take a label for

(45:02):
myself, not knowing what I'm gettingmyself involved into, because only my parents
push that religious identity on me.And if I am at that level of
consciousness, then how can I trustyou with anything. I cannot trust you
with my woman, I cannot trustyou with my property. I cannot trust
you with my money. I cannottrust you being even close to me because

(45:24):
you don't qualify. You don't knowyour individuality. You are impredictable. You
can be friendly now, but fiveminutes later you can be a part of
a crowd and you are going toshow me your tasks. You might bite
me, So then I have aproblem. Okay, what do you make
of moves on the part of countrieslike the UAE and the other countries that

(45:49):
are involved in the Abraham Accords,let's say, because that it looks to
me like that's a pathway forward muchdifferent than the pathway laid out in Iran,
that holds out the possibility of somethinglike a reproachemunk between let's say Christianity,
Judaism in Islam. Do you seeany hope on that side of things?

(46:09):
Yes, with a statement that I'min this is my fundamental stand.
I don't compromise this truth. AndI don't respect anyone who identify themselves as
a Muslim in principle because what okay, But this is my fundamental stand because
I aim to reform a generation.I need people to get out of their

(46:31):
cave of de lusion and think forthemselves. Like for example, I don't
have a problem with the Sufis,and I don't have a problem actually with
Muslims who don't pose as Muslims.They don't have to bring their religious identity
as they are entitled to something theywant to intimidate me or maybe tempt me

(46:54):
with something. Sincere devotional people don'tneed a religious identity at all, and
those exist in the Arab and theMuslim world. But also hypocrisy is well,
so is the other side of thecoin. I just did a seminar
on the Gospels with some scholars,the same group that I walked through the

(47:17):
story of Exodus with. Now wespent twenty hours going through the gospel accounts.
And the biggest enemies of Christ arethe religious hypocrites. That's the Pharisees
in that story. And there arepeople who proclaim allegiance to God while acting
in their own service. Right,the deepest of all possible sins, right
to invert the moral orders so thatyou serve yourself well claiming to serve what's

(47:45):
properly put in the highest place.Right, there's no shortage of religious hypocrisy,
and I think it is the worstof all possible sins because it inverts
the cosmic order. Right, itmakes everything good subservient to what it is
that you want. And that's avery that's a very I mean that that

(48:06):
can be Obviously, that's a problemfaced by any religious system, because any
religious system can become overrun with hypocrites. But that's really what you're pointing to,
is the distinction between hypocrisy. Andit says in the Gospels that you
shouldn't let your left hand know whatyour right hand is doing. And what
that really means is that it's somethinglike practice your devotion in solitude, in

(48:30):
secrecy, and don't trump trumpet it, don't make a show of it.
The activists in the West are exactlythe same sort of people, right,
They're wearing their morality on a stick. Look how good I am because I'm
on the right side. Has nothingto do with them organizing their lives in
any sense of the word. Allthey have to do is proclaim allegiance to

(48:52):
the victim, and they're on thetop of the moral order, regardless of
who they have to crawl in bedwith to manage that particular stunt, which
is what we're seeing everywhere in theWest at the moment after October seventh,
obviously, and all this moral kay, of course there's in comments. Its
a human condition, you know.It's this is why we're saying, if

(49:12):
we want to see the new Man, if we want to integrate to a
higher set of consciousness, then weneed to drop this political correctness. That's
a difference. It's the same thing. It's the same game. Yeah,
you know, I was born inthat. That's why they end up on
the same side. And I wasborn in that belief Like, at least
when it comes to me, Idon't have the right to criticize my own

(49:37):
belief system. And if I do, I become it becomes a headful speech
who says this, this is mybirthright to rebel and to criticize. This
is what makes us superior to animals, especially that there is no such a

(49:57):
thing as is now we have somany denominations. So basically, at least
what we can do now we canpush them back, they have to back
off, and we probably can applypolitical pressure where you know they will have
to hold extremists account of. Butafter October seven, what I saw,

(50:24):
and this is why I went outrageous, and I really told the art world
listen, if it comes down tochoose between the entire Muslim population and a
cow, I choose the cow.Like at least the cow is very peaceful.
It gives us milk, it givesus leather, it gives us meat.
It's very peaceful, it's harmless.But you what's your contribution? And

(50:45):
now we have this global crisis wherea minority religious minority being persecuted, suffering
ethnic cleansing. On October seven,and instead of side with truth to say
that this does not represent us asa Muslim world. Instead, they have

(51:06):
been weaponizing their religious identity against thisreligious minority that is most creative, with
the greatest contribution to life. AndI don't see like this is the blue
print of our society. I mean, I cannot imagine the Western civilization or
our civilization. How do you accountfor the fact that the Abraham Accords haven't

(51:28):
collapsed. I mean they haven't,right, They've held and that's again that
seems to me to be a verypositive thing. I mean, I think
you could make a case that perhapsthe people who are on the Abraham Accord
side of the world could have beenmore forthright in their defense of Israel after
October seventh. But at least thewhole bloody process hasn't collapsed. I mean,

(51:49):
that's what it ran with hope,not for collapse. It's not collapsed,
and I think it is going tobe rejuvenated after this war because it's
in the interest of everybody. Yes, and now the thing is Israeli showing
everyone that violence is did end.So what I'm hoping for that I don't
know if we have to go tothe point where we have to deal with
Iran and Hezbabala and this war couldbe a lot longer than people expecting.

(52:14):
But eventually the Middle East is goingto reach the point, especially Muslims and
Arabs, that violence is a didend. We are not going to tolerate
violence. You want to worship thestone, worship it as much as you
want, but don't throw it atme. Don't dare to throw it at
me, because I will retaliate.And this was the final result, the

(52:39):
use of force, after exhausting everypossibility with Islamists, with the Muslim brotherhood,
especially which is Hamas, there's nodifference. Now that they learned the
lesson, they can stay in theirdelusion. It's not my responsibility to go
and try to pull them out oftheir kid But if they choose to act

(53:00):
on it and manifest their delusion inthe form of violence, in the form
of terrorism, then we have verytough warriors and we are going to fight.
I personally am fighting for my veryexistence. I am not an expert
on the topic. They want meto cease to exist. Hence my relationship

(53:21):
and my understanding of Israel, becauseIsrael didn't do anything wrong to the Arabs
and to the Jews, except youknow, just being who they are,
and they want them to cease toexist. This is how I feel why
I feel with Israel. There's nodifference. We are in the same situation
where I didn't commit a crime againstmy people. I didn't commit a crime

(53:44):
against anyone. Even later on whenI collaborated with Israel in the intelligence service,
my main goal was to just stopthe madness, stop suicide bombers from
targeting civilians indiscriminately. This was mygoal, This was my moral compass.
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to forty percent off. But Istill became a trader, I said,

(55:19):
why why are you labeled me asa trader? Why you condimnate to death?
Or say I did not only saveJewish life, I saved also Partestenian
lives. I saved my father's lifeand other Hamasaders' lives. But even not
for teen years, I don't haveblood on my hands. I did not
take part of killing any human being. Throughout ten years of war and chaos

(55:40):
and bloodshed, working around the clockto save people from their madness, trying
to just juggle with the whole situation. I was very young, and I
almost got killed so many times inthe process. Sitting in a room full
of explosives with potentials. Was atBomber's nineteen years all discussing who's going to

(56:01):
die first, that kind of situation, and I am trying, how can
I stop this kid from killing somany other people. This is not about
treason, It's about pro life.This is what we were doing. Yet
a society that praise was at Bomaattacks, praised death because blinded with hatred

(56:27):
towards the Jewish people that, bythe way, they don't know nothing about
the Jewish history, they don't knownothing about the Jewish suffering. They are
not willing to study about the Holocaust. Instead that they're teaching people the wrong
and the false narrative, and thisis how they guarantee to stay in this
victim for eternity. So basically it'sso complicated. You know, in my

(56:52):
matrics that I learned a lot aboutmyself, and I'm thought the good fight.
But right now I reached the pointthat I don't need to explain to
anybody anything. There's a volcano insideme that is about to errupt, and
I don't care what people are goingto say, whether they're going to say
mad, crazy, out of control, they can say whatever they want.

(57:15):
We have to eradicate Hamas, wehave to finish Islamists. There is no
room for savages in our civilization,and anyone who poses a threat against innocent
civilians don't have equal rights. It'sas simple as that. And all the
voices coming from the United States say, hey Palestinians, give the Palestinians equal

(57:36):
rights. I say no, First, I want to see responsibility. Show
me equal responsibility, and we candiscuss equal rights. But you don't compare
savages to decent civilians or to decentcivilized people who know their responsibility towards themselves
and towards their neighbor, and comparesay, hey, Israeli's democracy, why

(57:59):
you treat the Palestinians in such manner? But there is no such a thing
as Palestine to begin with, andthe entire social structure need to be studied
before we decide what Palestine is,because it's not an issue, just political
gangs fighting against each other, findingIsrael as a common enemy, and when

(58:22):
Israel is not there, they willkill each other. I promise you that.
So what happens to you at thirteen? I walk me through your life
from thirteen onward to the point whereyou start working with the Israeli. So
just walk me through that whole thatwhole biography. So that was the first

(58:45):
person in in the fat Yeah,but it looks like I developed so many
disorders because of the traumas of childhood, and instead a society that can understand
a child and what's going on.What they did? They beat me up
everybody, from the Hamas leaders,to my parents, to the teachers at

(59:07):
school, to the principle, tothe other kids in the streets. Everywhere
I went, at some point Igot beaten up by a mob. In
fact, in my life, Igot beaten up by a mob multiple times
to the point where I went unconscious. And why were you a target of
that sort of vice? I wasjust trouble meca, and I'm still a

(59:27):
trouble maker. This is one ofmy best qualities. So basically, they
didn't they wanted me to behave accordinglyaccording to the religious laws and the cultural
laws. But I didn't know Iwas behaving that way. I just wanted
to rebel. There was lots ofanger inside me, and there is still
lots of anger. So what wereyou doing that was causing trouble? I

(59:51):
broke the rules at the mosque.I played. I just was very playful
kid, and they wanted me tojust not do anything. If I ran
in the mosque once the amount ofthe mosque left me up above his head
and throw me flat on my back, well, I lost my breath.

(01:00:14):
And in another occasion, I waswhipped by Hamas's leader with the electric cable
to the point I was conscious,how old were you between the tin and
the eighteen years old? This islike where the brutality of the society took
place. So if I was onlya rape victim and I was very young,

(01:00:36):
I would say, okay, youknow that was one event, but
come on, you know everybody wasconspiring against me, And I still wonder
why so many forces wanted me dead, And they still don't have compassion to
just look and say it's like,wow, this guy went through a lot,
Like maybe you know whatever he's saying, he has the right at least

(01:00:57):
to express it, but they wantto strip me even the right to talk
about it. So it's a brutalculture. When some say what happened in
October seven was barbaric, it's notonly a mass. There is a majority
in the Gazzen society that is complicitin this crime. In fact, for

(01:01:21):
those who watched the footage of theOctober seven crimes, it was not only
a mass that committed crime. Mostof the crimes, especially raping and kidnapping,
were committed by Guz and Cibilis.And I know now this is considered
or somebody can discredit me because I'mgeneralizing, but I say the vast majority

(01:01:43):
of that society don't have mercy whenit comes to children. And no woman
can walk freely and feel safe atmidnight anyway in the Personian territories. This
is why a father is willing tokill his daughter if she would leave the
house without a companion, because ifshe leaves the house with that companion,
there's a big chance that he's goingto be rapped on the streets, And

(01:02:06):
why are you taking such a risk? They would beat them up if they
leave the house alone. So it'sa trouble society. It's a death culture.
And I don't mean to label themas savages. And I don't want
to say this because it's so hard. It's my biological family, that's where
I came from, and I lovethe people. I want the people to

(01:02:28):
integrate, but they want me thatstill. And as long as they are
not able to make peace with theirown child, I don't know how they
can make peace with other nations,with other people, with others. What
was your relationship with your father?Like, I loved my father, I

(01:02:50):
loved them. He was my god, even though he beat me up and
so many times, I loved him, and I loved my mother as well.
I loved my people, did nothate them. I was just trouble
maker. But it's not out ofhatred. Even the ones who hurt me
the most, I was able tolet go. Even my rapists or that
guy told you he beat me beatme up, or the teacher, I

(01:03:12):
did not go after them. Andit was not coincidental that existence gave me
so much power during the second personin in the father, which I was,
I had the capacity to pretty muchgive the permission to to an army
to kill somebody, and I refused, especially when they were my opponents,

(01:03:37):
Like, so, how did youhow did you come to be in that
position? So you're you're a youngman thirteen to eighteen, what what what's
happening in your life? And wheredo you end up? So basically,
at the age of eighteen, thegap between me and that society was really
white, and I questioned many thingsabout the culture who we are and white

(01:04:00):
people just so cruel and I wantedto take revenge, but I thought I'd
take revenge from Israel and somehow Iwanted to go just suicidal because it was
very hard, you know, totake a gun and go shoot my people.
So I thought, okay, howabout I go against the occupiers or

(01:04:23):
enemies. And I decided that I'mgoing to buy a purchase gun and shoot
some Israelis and just go as ashah hit. That was my only escape,
and that was only at the ageof eighteen. So I got the
guns and before I did anything,thankfully, I was arrested by the Israeli
Intelligious during an integration. They offeredme to work for them, and I

(01:04:50):
thought it was an opportunity to actuallysay yes. And destroy them from weather.
On one hand, I would beleased from prison, and I would
have a lot more information, alot more power, and I can do
something against because there was no wayfor any intelligence service to buy me,

(01:05:12):
let's say, by money or byintimidation or any of that. So that
was actually my real motive and it'sdescribed in detail in my in my books.
But instead of releasing me, theysaid, you must go to prison.
If we release you, people willget suspicious and you will get killed.

(01:05:36):
So I ended up going to prisonfor sixteen months. This was my
first in prison. In prison,I told Hamas about this encounter with the
Israeli intelligence in prison. In prison, okay, I told them the truth
and this is my plan. Butthey said is this everything? I said,
this is everything? I said,no, you write more, so

(01:05:58):
there's nothing else. Who's your handle? What's your mission? So they did
not give me any mission. Hemus became suspicious of me instead of helping
me. I became a suspect.But my father is one of the founders
of the movement, so they couldnot torture me. But in the meantime
they were torturing hundreds of other prisonersfor suspicion of collaborating with this right.

(01:06:24):
Dozens were killed during that time andhundreds were tortured. They destroyed their lives
completely, and they were brutal.Some of this was taking place in the
prison. You were in prison,all of it. All of this.
So I'm talking about the sixteen monthsof a nightmare beyond anyone's imagination, where
I am suspect but they are nottouching me while everyone else, everyone around

(01:06:48):
me, is being tortured and killedfor sixteen months, and I was wondering
is my turn going to come?Because of my father's status and their hypocrisy
and of course their shame, theydid not do anything to me. But

(01:07:08):
the thing is I didn't up tothat point. I did not betray I
just told them the truth, notunder pressure. I thought, you know,
they could help me, that thisis my plan. And this is
how things went wrong between me andHamas to the core. When I was
released from prison after sixteen months,Hamas followed up outside of prison. My

(01:07:31):
father was still in prison, butdifferent Israeli prison at that time, so
he wasn't there to protect me,and I was outraged. Was he in
prison with you? No? No, no, My father was in a
high security prison. I was ina like more of a jail, so
he wasn't inside prison to protect me. And when I was released, he

(01:07:53):
was still in Israeli prison. Myfather spent some thirty years of his life
in Israeli prisons. So now outsidethe prison, Hamas is coming after me.
This is like just to keep usposted what's going on. And now
there I don't want to say blackmarry me. But in the human nature,

(01:08:16):
the handler of Hamas found opportunity actuallyto to take him to total advantage.
He wanted me to become somehow likehis bitch, and I was in
a situation I prefer to die.You know, I did not betray my
people. I don't have any intentionto betray anybody. I always thought that,

(01:08:39):
okay, you know, we're fightingagainst occupation and this is the way
to just become a shahidden exit allthis tragedy for good. So what's going
suicidal? I did not mean,you know, to sell my people for
money. So the only refuge wasleft on the table is to actually go

(01:09:00):
to the Israeli intelligence and ask themfor help from Hamas. This time,
because Hamas, what were they requiring? A view that the Hamas handler what
was being required of you the momentthey put you at defense. And you
are in a society like this whereeverything is ruled based on shaman anna,

(01:09:23):
it's the most shameful thing. Theycan ask you to do whatever they want
you to do, and it's upto the individual, it's not even to
the Hamas movement. So and they'regoing to hold it against you for eternity.
What kind of life is this.It's like someone who is holding something

(01:09:43):
against you, and nothing will cleanthat shame, no matter what you do,
except if you die. Even ifI became a suicide bomber, the
shame will hunt me to my grave. This was the reality of it.
So this is where I think everythingjust went out of control. I was

(01:10:04):
like, since childhood, I hadno mercy from these people, and right
now trying to actually just escape mymisery by dying for Allah, by dying
for the nation against the Zionist occupation, They're coming after me. So this

(01:10:25):
is my psychic and I was nomatter what I do, even if I
die, I will never be ableto please them. And why would I
die? So in the first encounterwith Israeli intelligence, I told them the
whole truth. How do you makecontact with them. They made a contact
after I was released from This wasthe original plan, wasn't it. Yeah,

(01:10:46):
Okay, So after I was releasedfrom prison, they contact me,
and in the first meeting, Iasked them, why didn't you come to
help the people who were tortured inprison? If you now want me ready
to work for you, you abandonedmoney, you abandoned me. They said,

(01:11:10):
none of these people who were torturedand killed had any relationship with the
Israeli intelligence. It's all in Hama'shid. The handler said, I have
been working with the agency for eighteenyears. One acid in our district was
cut in the action, and thisman still alive in the United States.

(01:11:30):
And he gave me the name ofthat person. He said, this is
the only one. This is theonly true story. The hundreds of others
who have been killed had no relationship. They are all innocent people. Well,
if he was telling me the truth, this is even more disastrous.

(01:11:54):
And I decided to go to thesecond to go back to the second meeting
and the third meeting, and everymeeting they were just building me up.
I was so broken, building youup and walls, building me up.
In education, conversation, open conversationabout who they are, what they do.

(01:12:17):
Uh. And so this is whenyour political attitude started to switch your
attitude towards history. Not yet,this was just the early beginning. It
was the early beginning because simply theysaid, here's money. You go back
to school, and they give meenough money, exact amount that pays for

(01:12:39):
my school. And when I neededthe to do anything financial, they said,
not possible. We cannot give youany amount of money because if you
give you money and you cannot provewhere you got this money from, they
will kill you. So I said, you only go to school. What's
my mission? There's no mission,there was no gun, there is no

(01:13:01):
ghost school. Did you so,did you go back to high school?
I went back to the high school. I graduated from high school. But
also they wanted me to go tocollege. And I graduated four years college.
And during that entire time they fundedmy education and my education only and
there is no other deal than that. There was no other deal. Why
did they do that? Because thisis how they work, This is how

(01:13:24):
the Israeli intelligence work. They sayfrom the beginning, they said, listen,
we don't work with losers. Itdoesn't matter like, the fact that
you are son of a Hamas leaderdoes not qualify you. You must be
like us. You need to thinklike us, and you need to be
a part of your sciety, andyou need to be productive. You cannot
be a loser. If you area loser, you will not gain the

(01:13:48):
respect of your own society. Andthey did a long process of fulling Hamass
that we don't have relationship that included, you know, some attack on our
house, some arrests in the future, or type of illusion orchestrated by the

(01:14:10):
Israeli intelligence to just convince the societythat I was a wanted person at some
point that there was no way inthe world that I had a relationship with
the Israeli intelligence, especially when Hamasstarted building their trust with me again and
I had top secrets of the movement, but the Israelis did not act upon

(01:14:33):
my intelligence or my information to justkeep Hamas feeling safe for as long as
possible. So part of the buildingme up, you know, it was
we had hundreds of meetings and theyshowed me many of the values. For

(01:14:53):
example, when we got into operationlater on civilians were involved. We avoid
civilians every time the civilian involvement wasa big concern for the agency, and
I was really surprised because I thoughtthat the wisdom on the Palestinian street that
the Israelis will give you poison toput in the town's water, They will

(01:15:16):
give you a gun to shoot yourown people. They will make you rape
women and take footage of them soyou can blackmail them. They will all
type of crazy stories that they hadhad nothing in reality, and I was
on my own. They never connectedme with anyone else. And after my
college, this is, I think, was the period where I was ready

(01:15:42):
to do something good for me.What did you take in college? I
studied history in what aspective history?It was history and the social studies,
but I studied the world history,Middle East history, the history of religion.

(01:16:02):
Of course, you cannot cover everythingin four years, but I did
as much as I could, andI was very interested in that topic.
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dot com slash Jordan or enter codeJordan at checkout. So what did your
What did your education change for you? Education was just the at the first
step. I had to edicate myself, like, for example, what I

(01:17:33):
was in prison, I studied English, I memorized Oxford Dictionary. I was
reading sixteen hours a day, andI spent lots of time in Israeli prison.
This is how I spent my time. When I was released, I

(01:17:54):
opened up to Christianity, especially theBible, and the Bible had a huge
impact on my life, especially youknow, the New Testament and the teachings
of Christ, which to me,you know, is not Christianity as much
as christ Consciousness is a state,advanced state of consciousness and the challenge of

(01:18:15):
love thy enemy, And that camein a in a place where I was
conflicted, where you actually had enemiesexactly, and who is my enemy?
Like is it my people? Isit my rapist? Is it my torture?
Or is it the Israel? Isit? Who is it? So
the challenge of love thy enemy reallymade peace with the world now and I

(01:18:45):
decided that I don't have enemies anymore. And this is what helped me actually
heal and progress. So I madea principle that I did not want to
kill any of my opponents. ButI have to say that today I regrett
it. Today I regretted the influenceof Christ's consciousness of just love everybody unconditionally

(01:19:10):
did not get me to where Ineeded to be, because today I'm under
the influence of cause and effect,not right and wrong, And I think
there's no escape for anybody from karmaor from their own actions. Nobody is
above this universal law. It hasnothing to do with cultures. And I

(01:19:31):
tried so hard to save my father'slife. If I wasn't in the picture,
they would have killed him a thousandtimes. Saying that, I thought
to myself, moderate is in apolitical way, is not a military wing.
But this is the problem of thisis a moderate and this is extremist.

(01:19:53):
Then you go into this rabbit holeand you never find your way out,
I thought to myself. Nor complicitin ham ass crimes, then you
qualify for the same punishment as anyof their attackers on October seven. And

(01:20:14):
this is why I had to takea moral sen and say or Hamas leaders
must be executed. What happened Octoberseven was a capital crime. A genocide
cannot be taken late lightly. Thisis not just an act of resistance to

(01:20:34):
wipe out twenty plus communities based ontheir ethnic background, based on their religion.
It's not an act of resistance.It's not justified killing babies, killing
chilgarn raping women, kidnapping hostages,killing animal, burning trees. Nothing gets

(01:21:00):
worse than this, and it requirescaptain crime. And I had the thought,
what about my father, who Iloved very much, who this owned
me fourteen years ago. I nevergive up on him. I was like
always, you know in my heart, this is my father. I love
you. Whatever you know you didnecessary to just shun me and throw me

(01:21:26):
to the mouth of death. It'sno problem as long as you are okay.
But after October seven, I hadto make a very difficult choice,
because this is where or when wehave to draw the line. All of
us are connected to a certain interest, that this is a family relationship,

(01:21:51):
this is a love relationship, myrelationship to this property, my personal interest
to a certain degree. Hence wecompromise the truth, even though the obvious
truth that what happened in October sevenis wrong. It doesn't matter if Muslims
did it. They are wrong.I don't care if they are Buddhists,

(01:22:14):
of the are Americans. It doesn'tmatter who they are. It was wrong,
and I take the moral stent.My father is complicit in this,
and especially when I saw him onthe top of a demonstration supporting Hamas in
our town in Romala, this wasthe moment that I thought he's not my

(01:22:34):
father anymore, cannot be. Andthe hostage situation was very hard that I
didn't know how Israel is going tobring those hostages back. And Hamas wants
mass murderers to be released. Happenedto be same people who were torturing prisoners

(01:22:56):
on my watch, and happened tobe the same mass murderers who carried swasaid
bombing attacks during a second person andin TfL like for him, Hamit and
Abdallah, But people I knew personallythis people Hamas is asking to release,
and we cannot release them. Wecannot put them back to the streets for

(01:23:19):
innocent hostages. Such impossible situation.So my suggestion, and this is again
you know the israel I knew,the Israeli government will not do that,
But I give them the permission toexecute all these mass murderers, because if
they were executed from the beginning,Hamas would have not kidnapped a one year

(01:23:43):
old hostage asking for the release.But then what about my father, my
own father, Is he an exception? He could not be an exception.
No one can be an exception ifthey are complicit in a genocide. So
this is where you know since Octoberseventy just as chaotic as it is in

(01:24:06):
the Middle East, and my lifealso as chaotic, and I don't have
way around it to see the Muslimpopulation weaponizing their religious identity against the Jewish
as a religious minority. And Ihave known the Jewish people for about twenty
seven years now. Actually, myrelationship with the Jewish nation is a lot
deeper than my relation with the Muslimnation. It's a lot longer, a

(01:24:31):
lot deeper. Many of the Jewishmothers throughout this journey, they took me
in, you know, a country, a nation that really gave me so
much support. I'm not talking aboutfinancial support as much as like sincere concern
for my will being. I've beento hundreds of Jewish families, shabbad dinners.

(01:24:57):
I have adapted nephew Jewish nephews thatthey're fighting in Gaza today. So
in the face of such a situation, how can I abandon the Jewish people?
And those are my people right now, and the Arabs also, the
Arab children. I see myself,this is me, and I see how

(01:25:20):
the predators, the pro Palestine andthe Hamas billionaires and the other criminals taken
advantage of the situation on a globalscale. I find myself just fighting at
so many fronts that it just itmakes out of me an absolute mad person.

(01:25:45):
So you your education was paid forby the Israeli intelligence agency, and
you started to question your concept oftheir work, and then you broadened your
education formally, how is it thatyou worked for the Israeli intelligence organization?

(01:26:12):
How did that come about? Andwhat sort of work did you do?
So because you said, to beginwith, they were just paying for your
education, and you were talking tothem, right, and I was learning
that they were different than you thought. Yes, and I was also very
young at that point. Things becameserious at the beginning of the Second Parsona,

(01:26:35):
the Fada, and that was sothe beginning of this journey with the
israel intelligence started in nineteen ninety six. The second persona if I started in
two thousand, right before nine eleven. So I was already towards the end

(01:26:56):
of my school and you in aboutHamas about the Personian authority, and it
happened that I was part of ysrr Fat meetings, and I was part
of other Palestinian factions meetings, Islamicji had Fatah, and my relation based

(01:27:19):
on my father's public status. Iwas able to go pretty much anywhere I
wanted to go, and the peopleknew me from my childhood. Even though
I was trouble maker, you know, at that time I was a lot
more stable. And what position exactlydid your father play hold? So basically

(01:27:43):
my father's position, of course ischanging, but because of internal elections,
and his status would never be revealedto the public, not even to Hamas
members, because the voting for hisstatusts would be only limited to the Hamas
leadership at that time. I thinkhe was from the or he maintained throughout

(01:28:05):
his career with Hamas, top topleadership in the Hamas Shura Council. Plus
a huge chance that he's one ofthe founders of Hamas, but he never
revealed that. I know, Iknew this from other Hamas leaders, but
he would never relive that information tome. Okay, okay. They usually

(01:28:27):
revealed this information after his death.So we're talking about he's not only a
leader of the movement, he's alsothe spiritu One leader of the movement.
Today he could be the spiritu Onefather of the movement. This is his
significance, So not just logistical,Okay, and of course after my story

(01:28:51):
came out, his status in themovement was shaken, right, but somehow
they wanted to give him as muchsupport as they could. Okay, so
now we're at the second day Tifata. This is about this you said,
this is just before nine to eleven. This is around the year two thousand.
Okay, So what's happening and youhave access to all these meetings,

(01:29:15):
but you've already established relationship within Israeliintelligent. Yes, so basically trust between
me and Israeli intelligence was already established, and I was highly motivated to capture
as was at Bomber before they reachedtheir target. Israel was really struggling with

(01:29:39):
this issue we had, so thatbecame your mission. It was suicide bomber
prevention oriented. Yes. The thingis everything was happening in front of my
eyes. The only thing I justneeded to set my intention that do I
want to do this job? DoI want to do this very difficult job
or not? Because even though theI established the relationship with the Israeli intelligence

(01:30:01):
but did not mean that I wasforced to do anything. So I was
in the mosque, I was inthe meetings, I was in the safe
houses, I was pretty much everywhere, and any strange encounter between two mass
members, I was able to justdetect that this is unusual, we have

(01:30:21):
to look into it. Now.What was more important than the Israeli intelligence
had lots of information, but itwould take an expert hours and hours to
go through thousands of pages to cometo a conclusion. For me, if
I heard the story, I wouldcome to the conclusion immediately. So I

(01:30:45):
was able to piece the puzzle.And many people think that I was informat
like go in and bring the information, But what they didn't realize actually the
Israeli intelligence had the information already,and or I was just in a meeting
piecing the puzzle, and then whenI go back to the society, I
act based on what I know nowfrom the meetings. So the information,

(01:31:13):
the intelligence that I received from theshin Bed helped me navigate a thousand times
stronger than if I was only ason of Hamas's leader. So I ended
up knowing about Hamas a lot morethan what my father knew about Hamas operations.

(01:31:35):
So being part of that culture andhaving whatever information it made my position
very very strong that the that Iwas able to reach as side bomber before

(01:31:55):
they reached their target. How manytimes did you do there? Okay?
And I hate to talk about this, okay, Okay. I hate to
talk about it because this is whereI start playing the hero, and even
in the book I would talk aboutit, but I think right now it's
inevitable because many people are trying todiscredit my journey and it's about it's also

(01:32:17):
that I'm supposed to talk about operationand reveal the secrets of our work to
the enemy. But you can saythe least dozens of suicide bombing attacks,
dozens on a regular basis, fromcapturing five suicide bomber at the time to

(01:32:42):
seven suicide bomber bombers at the time, to capturing the masterminds that includes the
bomb makeup, and that was ourbiggest concern. In fact, somebody like
Abdalla Barwoti, which was very,very dangerous Hamas Acid, the most dangerous
Hamas bomb make his in Israeli prisontoday. I was the first to reach

(01:33:10):
his location, his lab and recognizehim responsible for the death of at least
one hundred people at that time beforehe was arrested. Ibrahim Hammad and the
entire Hamas military wing of the WestBank, which they were using a research

(01:33:38):
Santa as their cover. They nevercome to the mosque, they never participate
in Hamas activities. They're all shaped, they don't have beards. They're in
the intellectuals, et cetera, historians, and I had my suspicion, but
the agency did not have any informationabout this guy. Guys there were five

(01:33:59):
of them, and I kept arguingfor about three years, arguing with the
agency that this people are doing somethingwrong, doing something, and nobody would
listen to me, until finally werealized that this people have been the core
group behind ninety five percent of thesuicide bombing, and then during the second

(01:34:21):
person and the Fada, just theywere there and we could not make the
connection. Then finally the agency islike, how did you come to this
conclusion? So many times they werejust like a gut feeling, or like
literally I would just be taking mylittle sister to the school in the morning
and all of a sudden, Isee this most wanted entering the building and

(01:34:45):
this was his apartment, his safehouse. Then I called the agency and
I say, I found him,But how did you find him? I
was I was just driving and hejust entering the building. They could not
believe it. Abrahim Hammond. Theagency did not see him in a years,
They did not see his face ineight years, and I finally look
at him. So it was atsome point I remember a vidictor was the

(01:35:10):
head of the agency at that time. He said, get him out,
get him out. He's going toget killed. Because the amount of operation,
whether in Fatah, Hamas Islamic,you had public Front for Liberation of
Palestine, in fact, yes rahFat after winning the Novel Priests prize,

(01:35:31):
I was the source that brought theinformation of his relation to Swassid bombing attacks
because I was in that meeting andthe information that was given to areas around
Israeli Prime Minister at that time,My identity was never revealed, the same
information that was used in the UNSecurity Council. So why am I telling

(01:35:56):
you this? Not to brag aboutit. The amount of intelligence My life
was on the line every day,every single day during the Second Parsilian Intifada,
all the way up to Hamas coopin Guz and I thought the Israeli
intelligence that Hamas is up to something. They said, but this is too
much, it's too hard to believe. The Presidian Authority has thirty five thousand

(01:36:23):
police officers. Hamas has only fivethousand. The it's not possible for them
to overthrow the Presilian authority. Itold them, this is Hama's plan and
this is what's going to happen.And that was three months before Hamas took
over Gazas. Okay, now whereit's gonna get tricky. You know,
this is the stuff that I don'tlike to talk about. Nobody given them.

(01:36:47):
And the three months later Hamas wasin power, and instead of destroying
Hamas and not allowing them to grow, the world pressure against Israel that this
is an elections and Hamas won theelections and we have to accept them as
a legitimate political party. And theyjust keep playing this game, and Israel

(01:37:11):
agreed to go into their rabbit holeuntil Hamas became the power it became.
And even from the first war withHamas, Israel was determined to destroy Hamas
completely. But the world came seesfire now, and we sees fire the
first war, the second ward,the third word, the fourth war,
and every time they usul drink ashuman shads, and this time it was

(01:37:34):
there's no way around there. You'llhave to eradicate them, otherwise they will
do a lot worse in the inthe next war. How do you understand
the relationship between Hamas and Iran.It's a very weird and awkward relationship because
she and so need they hate eachother, and so there's a bloody history

(01:37:55):
between both sects. But the it'sin Iran's interest to destabilize the region.
They finding Hamas a device. They'vethey've they give Hamas billions of dollars,
but they Why do you think theAmericans, especially the Democrats, why do

(01:38:16):
you think they can't see this becauseeverybody is after their interest. Like for
example, right now we have Iran'suh full attack on Israel. Ballistic missiles.
Okay, we down many of thosein the United States, help the
UK, other NATO countries. Thisis an Arab states, Arab states.

(01:38:39):
Okay, this is great, Butare we supposed to be a defense?
Is this the best we could do? That we just stand at defense?
The superpower. I would destroy theIranian nuclear program immediately. This is what
I could from day one. Isaid, the most adequate response to October

(01:39:00):
seventh is the destruction of Ron's newclear program. You cannot give a Muslim
country a new clear power. Itwas a big mistake to let Pakistan to
become a new clear power. Thisis this could lead to a global situation,
a very ugly situation. They arenot responsible, they are dictatorship,

(01:39:23):
They are not accountable to anybody.But Allah, how can you give them
our shutuation? Of course yeah,Allah itself. I don't want to say
even interpretation, because Allah, asis in the Quran, is a very
dangerous entity. So it's not amatter of misinterpretation that you know, the
guy is a very good guy inthe Quran, and the Islamists or extremists

(01:39:46):
see him as as as a badguy. No, he is a bad
guy. Sooner or later the worldis going to wake up on a disaster
and realize what we are saying isthe truth. So the Unit Nited States
is not doing their job. Wehave advanced weaponry, like, for example,

(01:40:06):
the electromagnetic bomb. Will drop oneof these, paralyze their entire system.
No civilians will die in this process. Just send them back to the
Stone Age and in the meantime destroytheir nuclear program, show them you know
who is the boss. But insteadwe are compromising so they can get access
to our intellectual property. And useour weapons against us. This is insanity.

(01:40:32):
But why the by the administration doingthis? Because he's trying to please
the voters. He's trying to pleaseReshie that lip, he's trying to please
That's all part of that victim victimizernarrative. Yes, he's trying to please
everybody. And I say, youknow, if he's strong, leaders take
risk, take risk week. Leaderstry to please everybody. And I think

(01:41:00):
this is a situation of this administration. You cannot please everybody. You cannot
please Israel and please Rashidlap simultaneously.You cannot. You need to choose who's
my ally in this situation. Israelis a reliable ally, and they are
under attack, and they are protectingthe American interests in the region. They

(01:41:20):
are maintaining the stability of the ofthe region. I don't want to say
the world. It's not just analle But then they come and accuse America
of giving support to Israel. Well, how much support Israel give the incess,
how much support the Jewish population inthe NS American Jews give the American

(01:41:46):
treasury from their tax money, andin every aspect of economy. What conclusions
did you draw about the Jewish societyin Israel life, she became more and
more familiar with its nature. Well, first of all, it's democracy,
that it's their diverse society. Thereare the Muslims, they are the Jews,

(01:42:13):
the Christians, their human rights.You know. One of the things
that was just unbelievable during the secondperson in in Tivada, when a building
collapsed and there were clashes on thecheckpoints everywhere, shooting at soldiers and was
very dangerous for the Israelis to cometo enter the city of Vermla when the

(01:42:35):
building collapse. We did not haverescue team, we did not have a
fire department, because it's such acorrupt system that invested all the money in
luxury and they never invested the moneyin infrastructure. So the dozens of workers
stuck under the rubble and we cannotget them out. So we had to

(01:42:56):
call the Israelis during the Second Intifada, while we're shooting at them, say
please come into Ramala, to thecity center and help us. So the
israel sent the fire department, ofcourse, with the idea to protect them
the entire day, evacuating the victims, taking them to Israeli hospitals and after

(01:43:23):
a long day the idea of exitthe city of Ramala, and people rewarded
them shooting at them, throwing Morotovcocktails, throwing stones, etc. My
job, I was there because myjob was just be there to make sure
that the troops are okay. Sothe troops protecting the rescue team. I

(01:43:45):
am there to make sure that thetroops are okay and the civilians of Ramala
are waiting for the troops to evacuateafter helping the Parestinians by throwing stones,
Molotov cocktails and shooting at them.This type of events, you know,
just insane, and it just keepsgoing like this. Everything about the Palestinian

(01:44:13):
mentality, the Arab culture, andyou see the law and order that there
is protocol. The Israeli intelligence followa protocol. No one was arrested if
Israel did not have evidence of theirinvolvement in terroism, and no one was
assassinated, especially the most dangerous theorists, that Israel could not arrest, that

(01:44:38):
they were hiding in the city centers, that none of them were killed,
if they did not have direct relationshipto suicide bombing attacks, and they had
blood on their hands. None.So you saw an organization that ran by
rule of law, absolutely and there'sno doubt about it. And this is

(01:44:59):
why I'm hard broken, because Iknow what's happening in Gaza right now really
pushed Israel to the corner that theyhad no other choice and there was no
prosperity to avoid civilian casualties after Octoberseven, because I know at their heart
they would never hurt an innocent civilian, and they gave the why did you

(01:45:24):
become convinced of that? Because inour operation, this is how we dealt
with the situation. So you sawthis first hands, like later on one
of the exceptions of my entire careerthat it was a day where the agency
had no choice but to kill oneof yats bodyguards. His name was Mohanadohala.

(01:45:55):
This guy was killed about thirteen Israelisand he was hiding in the Ravat
compound. I was the one whodiscovered, so I was the only one
who could recognize it. And thisIsraeli intelligence said, listen, we have
no one else except you, andthis guy is going every night shooting and

(01:46:17):
killing people. Yes, a rarafat gave him immunity. The Israeli intelligence
could not go into yes, afat compound and arrest, and they could
not predict where he's going and theydidn't know how he looked like, so
they wanted him dead. That wasthe only way to deal with him.
So the agency said, listen,you have your moral thing, you don't
want to kill anybody, but ifthis guy is not dead, he's going

(01:46:42):
to kill people tonight tomorrow night,and he's gonna go like this. So
this is when I had to compromise. The first attempt, a top leader
was in the car. His nameis Marwan Barghuti. He's today in Israeli
prison, and everybody said that thiscould be the next Parsonian president. And

(01:47:09):
the operation was canceled because there wasother terrorists in the car. I'm not
talking about like a civilian in thecar, and this guy was so hard
to find. Like the agency wouldsay, it's like, you know what,
eliminate both of them. We arenot going to take a risk that
he's going to kill more Israeli ciplines. And the operation was canceled. I

(01:47:30):
was really shocked. I was shocked. So our job was many times when
we knew about the safe house ofa terrorists. Okay, is his family
there, Okay? When is hisfamily leaving. It's always civilian situation was
taken into consideration. And this isa ten year experience. So when when

(01:47:54):
people come to me to dances likethat Israel is ethnically cleansing the Parestonians,
it's a lie. Israel. Israel'saccountable to international law. Israel cannot do
this. Even if there was corruption, Let's say some racist within the idea
and they did something illegal, theywould be held accountable. But this is

(01:48:15):
not a state policy. It cannotbe. But people want to see it
in black and white. If youcan try to bring them other truths,
like, for example, what's happeningtoday is a collateral damage and it's not
only that who's killing the civilians.Did people take into consideration that Hamas put
booby traps everywhere? And how wouldwe know the difference between Israeli air strike

(01:48:42):
and Hamas booby trap that targeted civilians, And how do we know actually that
it's not in Hamas's interests two killcivilians? So then how many Hamas clearly
in their interests? Of course thisis this is the the most powerful weapon
in their hands to deal legitimize Israeland get legitimacy. I think it's impossible

(01:49:06):
to understand the situation in Israel withoutunderstanding that the Palestinians are expendable. Yeah,
so Hamas is committing not only acapital crime by committing a gena side
on October seven, which actually definesthe genocide. Then the Muslims around the
world out number Israel, and thechange the narrative so fast that we go

(01:49:31):
from a Jewish genocide on October sevento a Palestinian genocide in less than seventy
days. This is how fast that'seffective work on it Ram's part, my
estimation. So let me we're runningnear the end of the time we have
in this session. For everybody watchingand listening, I'm going to continue this
conversation on the Daily wire plus sidefor another half an hour, so you

(01:49:58):
know, be welcome to join usthere. I guess i'd like to ask
you there's many things, obviously thatwe've left undiscussed, but that's going to
be how it is. I wouldlike you to tell me what you think
about what's happening on the streets inwestern cities, but most specifically on university

(01:50:18):
campuses with regards to the pro Haamasmovements. That seem to be everywhere.
And if you were speaking with agroup of students who are acolytes of the
victim victimizer narrative and portraying their moralsuperiority by adopting the identity of allies of

(01:50:40):
Hamas, It's like, what doyou have to say about that? Again,
it's not the one one phenomenon.It's many with different motives are coming
to claim to be a pro Palistine. It's not only a pro Hamas.

(01:51:06):
Hamas is actually igniting the blood lustin many of the demonstrators. So when
Hamas' scores and the shed blood,this gives them the pleasure of inflicting pain

(01:51:30):
on their opponents. They say,oh, they deserve it because they are
designers. They're the colonizers, they'rethe occupiers, they are the bankers,
they are the ones who control theeconomy. Those are the ones we are
in debt to. So many,many people come with a different motive,
and this is just the hatred againstthe successful minority. Yeah, this is

(01:51:54):
the curse. When you are asuccessful minority, many people are going to
come after you, especially if youare or if you are wounded, that
they will come and try to quicklywire down so many forces that they are
as we discussed the beginning that theyare opposing forces, but somehow they got
united in a very discussing way thatshows you the moral decay of such groups.

(01:52:20):
And I'm not talking only about students. There are historians, are intellectuals.
There are lawyers who bought into theBDS or the pro Palestine propaganda,
which is basically that Israel is anappartight state, that Israel has been or

(01:52:45):
the Zionists been ethnically cleansing the Prestinianpeople. If the Pedestinians had a Presilian
state, would have not been inthis situation. Hamas is a resistant group.
And everybody project their hatred based ontheir intelligence and based on their ability

(01:53:12):
to express that. So some intellectualsthey can represent their hatred, but yeah,
in a deceptive way that does notshow hatred, just like show it's
always how I ship for the victim, you know, Yes, yeah,
that's the best possible mask for likea statistic hatred, that's for sure.
Yeah. So are you speaking anywhere, like, do you have the opportunity

(01:53:40):
to speak publicly? Well, Ihave been canceled from many universities because you
probably now understand why yeah, butI'd say so. But I'm okay with
that, and I'm not afraid ofbeing canceled. I've been canceled by my
own family, by my own people. So when when I have American campuses,
American University is canceling me, I'mnot effected, like I don't feel

(01:54:04):
ashamed that oh my god. Youknow, this is a threat to my
career because I never intend to makea career, you know, And I
don't care about my public image asmuch as I care about where do I
stand morally and am I at peacefulmyself or not? But anyway, I
find my way to speak to thestudents and I challenge them. Yesterday we

(01:54:26):
had a debate. I thought,I've been trying to get the pro Palestine
advocates, anyone to an open debate. Let's go, let's talk about the
thing. This is the way ofthe West dialogue. We cannot be clashing
like this, inciting for violence,harassing Jewish people, harassing successful people,

(01:54:50):
bringing the Hamas nightmare into the Americansoil, globalizing the Intifada, globallyzing the
chaos. Well, this is avery dangerous terms that we don't know what
we're talking about. From the riverto the sea. They don't understand that
back in nineteen eighty seven, whenpeople start chanting from the river to the
sea, violence followed just shortly afterthat. And this is my childhood trauma.

(01:55:15):
And when I saw the people chantingfrom the river to the sea,
I knew we were in trouble.So this is why I tried to counter
this force. But nobody wants tolisten. So I thought to myself,
I have of that narrative, thatunderlying narrative, a victim, victimizer.
That's very intractable, it's very difficultthing to move, it's so morally attractive.

(01:55:39):
Well, and try to get themout of their comfort, out of
their convenient truth, and they willcrucify. This is the price you pay.
So practically, just two days ago, we had a debate. I
had to pay somebody twenty thousand dollarsfrom my pocket to debate me on the

(01:56:05):
topic because no one else agreed towhere I was standing. Berkeley University,
and that's one of the most respectfuleducational institutions that they cannot even host a
debate on their own, a debateI had to pay from his own pocket
to bring his opponent to have adiscussion. And the funny thing that this

(01:56:28):
guy acts like a giant outside ofthe debate, Like when you see him
a Jesias Al Jazeera host and wasa CNN anchor, delivered the speech to
the United Nation and called from aUnited Nations podium from the river to the
sea. But when he came tothe debate, he agreed with ninety percent

(01:56:49):
of the things that I was saying. I was like, then, who
are you that you're outside? Youknow, just this out rageous anti Zionist,
anti Israel, pro Palestine, andall of a sudden, here you're
just chicken out and I cannot finda debate, like a decent debate.

(01:57:12):
I've been calling them out. Youknow, can debate me. Let's talk
about this. This is not ajoke. Children are dying. This is
not a political stand, this isnot a career. I'm not your typical
expert coming on the topic. Youget in the way where I'm trying to
stop the death of innocent children,protect them from predators that have been killing

(01:57:38):
them for seventy years by the nameof Palestine. You get in my way,
I destroy you if necessary. SoI'm not politically correct. I cannot
be and I don't care if youcancel me or not. And I'm not
in a position even to reason withyou. We are at war right now.
It's finished. We can talk aboutit later, but it breaks my

(01:58:01):
heart. America is my country now, and I have responsibility towards the people
that we don't want to bring theAntifada here. We don't want to globalize
the Antifada. In fact, wewant to deglobalize it. We want to
localize it. We want to cutall the foreign entities that have been trying

(01:58:25):
to take advantage of this conflict.And we have to give the power to
the people, to the Arabs.They are Arabs, They're not Palestinians.
So please help me with this.This is what I've been trying to spread,
that there is no such a thingas Palestine. Palestinian is a political
identity. It's a corrupt one,a colonial one. It's actually very disrespectful

(01:58:48):
for the Arabs who were born inthat region to call themselves after a colonial
entity and adapt it as a nationalidentity. It's just absord it. This
is why I don't use the termfor myself, to say no, keep
them Arabs. They were born there, they have the birthright to be there.

(01:59:08):
But what they need. They don'tneed a set they need a police
force, they need education, theyneed economy, They need decent leadership that
works towards building a nation. Theyneed a civil constitution. They need to
be friends with Israel and drop theirstupid idea of destroying Israel because Israeli is
going nowhere. If they cannot seeIsrael as just the same way they see

(01:59:32):
themselves, when they look at anIsraelis child, like they see them as
their own child, then we havea problem. We cannot justify the killing
of Jewish children because they are Jewish. This is where I need this to

(01:59:55):
to be. And I don't wantthis whole nationalism, this whole palace.
So of course when I see nowglobalizing the issue, bringing to the States
and making free free Paristine, whatis why your parastine is not a hostage
in my investment sub saying three freeParistine, you know, dicent human beings,

(02:00:15):
discent Americans, we say free thehostages. Not they're down the posters
of hostages, you know, noteven allowing their families to represent their case
in the Land of the free.And what they want to free, They
want to free a concept, adangerous political concept that actually depends on the

(02:00:36):
destruction of order, at the expenseof children, at the expense of generations,
at the expense of individuality. Whoare we? You know? We
we are Americans. This is Imean not only Americans, anybody in the
West. This is our value system. So this is where it gets really

(02:00:57):
as you see, like I speakabout it with lots of strong emotions because
there is no way, there isno other medium for me. What's happening
is absurd, not only on theAmerican campuses. Before you say free Paristine
at what expense? At the expenseof Israel? You want ethnic cleansing from
the river to the sea. Sothis hypothetical political entity would take place in

(02:01:19):
reality. And who's going to paythe price? The Palestinian children? And
for how long we have been payingthis price? For seventy years? And
all we received in return suffering pain, confusion, and a minority of con

(02:01:42):
artists became billionaires. Yes, sAraha Fad had nine billion dollars in his
bank account before he died, andit vanished because his wife stole it after
she killed him. And this isthe first time I see it in public
yes, after his wife and whatthe life support and he died. Even
the Parsionian people don't know this andlet them go. Figure his wife is

(02:02:06):
his skiller. So we're talking aboutsuch corruption and fight for money where the
first lady is killing the father ofthe nation and in the meantime screwing a
a Mossad agent. So I'm donewith this. I don't want to see

(02:02:29):
most of them die, and Idon't care for the Parisionnian entity. All
right, sir, thank you.If you like the Michael Berry Show in
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(02:02:54):
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(02:03:24):
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(02:03:46):
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(02:04:09):
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