ARCHIVE - Hunter Angler Gardener Cook - Hank Shaw's Wild Food Recipes

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
The Michael Berry Show. So inaddition to the Saturday Bonus podcast, we've
started doing something where we pull thingsfrom our archives based on requests that we
get and things that we like,and it'll be noted as archive, which
means it aired at some point onthe show in the past. But some
of it is are our favorite interviews, our favorite discussions. This one comes

(00:21):
from a fellow named Mickey who said, Zori was listening to Ted Nugan on
your show last week and you weretalking about his outdoor cooking and outdoor hunting
and all these sorts of things,and it reminded me of a guy you
had on who had a cookbook abouthow to cook, how to kill,
cook, prepare fish, game andthose sorts of things. But I can't

(00:41):
remember what it was. Well,Chad Knockanishi quickly remembered. It was a
book called Hunter, Angler, GardinerCook and we had the author of it,
Hank Shaw. It's called hank Shaw'sWild Food Recipes. And he hunts
fishes, kills, fish, game, you name it, and then he

(01:02):
prepares them and serves them and showsyou how to do the same. And
here is that interview and enjoy allright, We've talked to Ted Nugent about
hunting and his passion for it,from the actual kill to putting it on
your plate. We've talked about theconservation elements of that. We're talking about
the importance of spending time out inthe woods and how it's important for you

(01:25):
in the Henry David Threau slash TedNugent way, getting in touch with inner,
your inner spirit animal, as TedNugent would call it. We've talked
to Stephanie about taking your kids outand the various mistakes you don't want to
make, setting expectations. And nowwe're going to talk to Hank Shaw,
who his career progression I must admit, is fascinating, and he somehow makes

(01:51):
a living doing what it appears hereally really loves to do. He's written
a series of books, and Iguess they must be successful because he keeps
doing it. The latest of whichI guess is buck Buck Moose, Recipes
and Techniques for Cooking deer, elkantelope, moose and other antlered things.
Hank, how on earth did youend up here? It's been a long

(02:15):
and twisted trip. I tell youthat it's hard to say. Actually,
I mean I've been a forager,you know, I picked wild plants and
berries, mushrooms and things. AndI've been a fisherman my entire life.
But I didn't pick up hunting untilI was an adult. So it's been
an interesting last sixteen seventeen years thati've been all three. Well, I

(02:35):
want to work backward. Your mostrecent publication is Buck Buck Moose, and
that's your recipes for cooking things,for cooking obviously antlered things, as you
say, and you make the pointthat venison is probably more than any other
meat, the one that people don'tcook. Right. Why is that?

(02:58):
I think it's true would probably bethe quickest way to put it, because
there's such a deep family tradition incooking and eating the deer or the analyte
or the elk or whatever it isthat you bring home, that there's very
strong family recipes like we do itthis way, and often they're rooted in,

(03:19):
you know, the bad old daysof the nineteen fifties, nineteen sixties
and early seventies, when we overcookedeverything and we were worried about food safety
and all this sort of stuff.I can't tell you how many times I've
seen people cook venison backstrap medium wellor well done, and it just makes
me sad, And how should itbe cooked? Just like you want your
steak? So medium rare is myfavorite. Some people like it dead rare,

(03:43):
some people like it a solid medium. But as long as it's you
know, you want it pink,You want juices running, just like you
would a rivie. And you know, I mean people don't make that leap
sometimes and it's a little bizarre.Well, we're not going to be able
to replicate the book in a radiointerview, you, but let's try.
You say, my favorite My favoritepart of the book isn't the recipes,

(04:04):
however, as much as I lovethem, It is the opening section,
which covers everything you need to knowfrom the moment the deer's on the ground,
skinning, gutting, butchering, processing, food safety differences in species,
in species and within species depending onregion and diet and age and sex,
aging meat. A discussion of whyvenison fat isn't all bad, wines and

(04:27):
beers that go well with venison.Now you got my attention. The first
one hundred pages are the result ofyears of research. All right, so
we've just made the kill. Idon't know if you've done any hunting in
Texas, but we've just made thekill of a of a white tail,
take me from there? What whatwhat do we start doing from there?
Well, a lot of times inTexas is going to be fairly warm,

(04:49):
so you're going to need to getthe get the guts out of the animal
real quick. And then for me, unless you've got to walk in cooler
nearby, you take it out ofthe skin because the biggest thing you need
to do is cool that meat asfast as possible. So that's sort of
question number one. Some people don'tdo that, and that's that can lead

(05:10):
to, you know, that gamytaste that everybody talks about where oh,
you know Ben's gaming. It's it'susually the case of poor meatcare and not
cooling the meat is kind of youryour quickest way to get that to that
bad result. But once you haveit down and you're skinned it, you've
got it in a warm climate,you know, because you know, I've

(05:30):
been in I've been south of Houstonin Bay City in November, and it's
not exactly the coolest, coolest placein the world. And it's funny because
I was reading about your northern Minnesotaexploits, and now you're out in California,
and I was thinking, does thiskind of what it's like to hunt
East Texas? But all right,go ahead, yep, it's sweaty,
yes. And so I usually hadbig marine coolers, you know, like

(05:53):
you go tuna fishing with, andI'll have them in the truck and you
know, I'll put the deer onlyinto piece that will just barely fit,
so you know, you quarter it. One thing you never do is do
any kind of fine butchery in thefirst twenty four hours. And the reason
for that is rigor mortis. Soif you cut any animal while it's still

(06:15):
in rigor, the meat is goingto be eternally tough. There's virtually nothing
you can do to make it tenderagain. And it's a very common mistake.
Butcher's called this shortening. So imaginelike your muscles are a rubber band,
and when the animal is still inrigid the rubber band is very taut.
So if you cut the ends ofthat rubber band, they snap back

(06:38):
and they stay that way. It'skind of like when your sister used to
used to say that you know,if you made a face at your sister,
she's it's gonna stay that way.It's never gonna go away. And
this is the same thing that happens. So you you ever now and again
you hear stories of somebody who's hada nice little button buck or a young
doe like, oh man, Imean it was still tough. I don't
know what happened with that. That'susually what happen. So you want it

(07:00):
quartered and cooled as fast as possible, yep, and then you let it
sit. You know. Just oh, by the way, you never you
never put the meat in direct contentgrit. You never put the meat in
direct contact with the ice. SoI put plastic bags or blap sacks or
something like that, and keep thedrain open on the on the coolers so

(07:20):
that they stay cool but they don'tget soaked. The worst thing you can
do is soaking venison, because whathappens it gets pale and washed out and
you lose a lot of flavor.But you also invite bacteria in it.
So if that water or that icerises above forty degrees, then you have

(07:41):
a bacterial breeding ground, and nobodywants that. So that's just sort of
a fine point for those Oh sorry, go ahead, he hank so you
know, once you have it,you know, sitting and it's draining and
it's cool and it's nice, andit doesn't have to be super super cool
because water is your enemy. Onlyif water is worn and if you can

(08:01):
get again, if you're close toa locker or if you're you know,
you can keep these very cool.Have at it. But I've had need
to hang in under a tree ineighty degree weather with a game bag on
it to keep the flies off andit's been fine. So it needs a
little bit more durable than you mightthink. But you do need to keep

(08:22):
it dry if it's not cold.I've heard reference to and ten Nugent made
the point, especially with birds,is is kind of dry aging and letting
this meat break down. Do youhave any rules there? I do,
And in fact, it's if youhave the ability to dry age. And
when I'm talking about dry age,I'm talking about a minimum of two weeks

(08:46):
and three weeks is better if youcan do that for you know, hind
legs and a backstrap. And basicallyyou only want to dry age things that
you're going to cook medium rare,so you know what need to dry age
the whole carcass if you don't wantto. I mean, it's not gonna
hurt it. But you're going tocook the heck out of a neck roast

(09:07):
or a shoulder roost anyway. Soit doesn't need to be dry age to
make it tender, because the longslow cooking does that. So I'll do
is I'll dry each hind legs ora whole big link to the backstrap and
then do it that way. AndI only really do that with wallhangers,
you know, like a big buckor a big bull moose or a big
bull help. And the reason isbecause they're so old. If you think

(09:31):
about it, any neat that youget in the store is not going to
be any older than two years old, even good, high quality, well
aged beef. That cow is notmore than two years old. Hank,
I'm going to hold you right there. Hank Shaw is our guest. The
book is Buck Buck Moose. Healso wrote Hunt and Gather, Cook and

(09:52):
Duck Duck Goose. We'll talk morewith him coming up. We're talking to
Hank Shaw and he's the author ofBuck Buck mus among other things, on
how to cook the deer you bringhome this season. And you were talking
about when you go to the butchershop, and that meat is never more
than two years old. Go ahead, right, So you know the thing

(10:13):
about an aged animal. So everybodylikes to say that the young, the
young ones are the most tender,and that's true, it's absolutely true.
But the best tasting venison, inmy opinion, is an old wall hanger
that's been properly aged. And here'swhy. So think about yourself, right,
So think about your current self,and now think about yourself when you

(10:33):
were, say, eighteen years old. Aren't you more interesting now than you
were then? Fair enough? Yeah, I hope so. But if you're
anything like me, you're a littleolder, a little tougher, a little
more stream. And so the thingis, the deer are the same way.
So if you age that and letthe enzymes in the meat break that

(10:54):
meat down and concentrate it and tenderizeit, that meat is going to be
far more interesting. It's far moredelicious than say a butt buck. But
if you can't dry age it,that big old bull or that big old
wallhanger, deer is going to beas tough as nails. So it's a
catch twenty two. Sorry, itdoesn't make for good radio. When I

(11:16):
stop and ponder when someone says something. But I'm stopping him pondering because you're
talking about this, all right.So my brother processes his own meat and
makes a big mess of his housewhen he does so. But most people
don't want to do that. They'regoing to take it to someone to process
it. Do you have some adviceon that? I actually question that.

(11:39):
I did a survey and I gota thousand responses, and of the thousand
responses, only about one hundred andfifty people who responded said that they that
they regularly take all their animals tothe process. Really, yeah, And
what I found among the Texans inthe Southerners, because you guys can kill
a lot of deer, and mostof the rest of the country you get
one or two a year, alittle bit more precious to river hunted it.

(12:01):
Now, are you going off ofyour blog, which is what hunter
Angler Gardner cook it is, Andyou're going off of that blog because you're
talking to insiders. I'm talking abouta general population of I mean, I
I kid with my brother that hedoes this and how much work goes into
it. But I'm having trouble believingthat that many people do this themselves.

(12:22):
I think there are those like youthat do it. I think most people
like me or lazy and go here. How much do I owe you I
bring you back? I bet youthat's fair. And it's also probably regional
too, So let's just all right. So if you're at the processor,
the biggest thing that you do,you have to do is you have to
make a friend of your processor,because if your butcher is like most butchers,
they're running through dozens of deer aday, So that butcher is going

(12:46):
to be busy, busy, busy. And I can't tell you how many
stories I've heard of, you know, Oh, I didn't get my tendrillings
back, or I shot a buttonbuck and I got an old ready buck
back in burger, or they didn'tput you know, they didn't grind beef
fat in with my burger, orthey didn't put b side into my burger.
So you really want to be friendswith your butcher before hunting season,

(13:09):
because if you want that butcher topay attention to your deer, because that's
prale. You know, you workedfor it, you deserve the best back.
You know. It's interesting. TedNugent made the point that he's seen
in many cases that a butcher willtake you know, five or ten and
lay them out and do piece bypiece and just kind of hand it,
you know, you know, organizeit over here and making sure, as

(13:31):
you said, that you're getting backwhat you hoped for. The frustration is
it's like dropping off your car pickingit up two days later. I mean,
you hope he did, but it'seven worse because you don't know what
they were doing while while you weren'tthere. So I guess I guess that's
just a trust question more than anythingelse. It really is, it really
is. I mean, especially becauselet's say you're you're a sticker and you've

(13:54):
done everything right with meat care andthe guy who brought the deer in in
front of you was we will youthink you want your garback and not that
guy's dear right right, and youknow a good processor. If you know
the guy, you're friends with them, you'll get your gear back. But
if it's just you know, ifyou don't know them, you're just dropping.
You're just another guy dropping that deeroff. Who knows what's going to
happen. And this is what reallydrives people to butchering their own at home

(14:20):
because of horror stories that they've hadfrom for butchers in the past. Now
that's don't get me wrong. There'sa ton of really great processors, and
I know a bunch of the hillcountry in Texas that are the sausage masters.
So there's an advantage of sending itto somebody like that because they've got
that extra skill. Do you haveone fond of that comes to mind?
I don't want to name names becausethey are all therese like five or six

(14:41):
that are really good. Yeah,all right, Hank Shaw is our guest.
The book is Buck Buck Moose.I almost said Duck Duck Goose,
which is a different of your books. All right, so we get it,
we process our meat, and we'reready. What do you do with
the backstrap? Well, it spendson the side of the animal, so

(15:03):
let's just say it's a regular Texaswhitetail. So you know, you've got
two lengths of backstrap somewhere around twoto three feet long. For me,
on a regular deer, I'm goingto cut that into lengths. You know,
they would call it stripline in thein the meat industry, So maybe
a foot long or an eight inchtwelve inch long, you knows. A

(15:26):
length of backstep. I'm not goingto cut it in the medallions right away,
and I'm going to cook it tillit's mediumware that's what I like,
and then I'm going to cut itin medallion. And there's a couple of
reasons for that. One. Ona regular deer, you're dealing with a
surface to mass ratio in terms ofyou know, how you get a seer

(15:46):
on the on the deer. Sorry, I'm just random rhyming, but the
thing is if you do if youcut that's say it's regular Texas whitetail,
and you cut it into medallions,you're going to have this huge area that
you've seared in a panel on agrill. And unless you cut that medallion

(16:07):
two inches thick, which is whatI like to do, then you're going
to have more area that's going toget hot faster. It's much more difficult
to cook it to medium rare.And you also have you know, you
have the bark on on the outside. It's that crispy niceness that's cool,
but you don't and you look atthat reveal of the red steak in the
middle, and unless you're a verygood cook, it's a lot easier to

(16:32):
get the doneness that you want ifyou cook a backstrap in lengths and then
cut it rather than cut it intomedallions and then cook it. Well,
it's an interesting point. I guessthat would apply to all sorts of food,
and I guess chefs would know that, but it wasn't something I'd given
it any thought to. What doyou do with your ground meat? I
mean, obviously venison chili is verypopular here and one of my favorite things,

(16:53):
but what do you do with it? I have a whole section in
the book on it, So it'sit's like, I love grand meat,
and virtually all of my grind willbe with grounded either vacant ends or ground
with pork fat. Some people liked sat I'm a huge fan, and
then sometimes I'll I'll leave the satout entirely because if you make something like

(17:17):
a grand meat jerky, or ifyou want a very lean spaghetti sauce or
chili, you don't need the extrafat. But in general I prefer a
little bit extra fat, somewhere betweenten to sixteen percent if it's a burger
grind, and then twenty five tothirty percent of the sausage grind. Very
interesting. I noticed something. Youknow, we're talking about your career progression

(17:40):
and you were where did I seeit? You were the Saint Paul Pioneer
Press political reporter and one of them. Yeah, well yes, and then
you got in into doing this.Was it your first book? You raised
the money on a Kickstarter campaign?No, it's this one extra, Oh,
this is the one. Yeah.It is over one hundred thousand dollars

(18:00):
to write this book off a Kickstartercampaign. That's very impressive. I was
a little shocked. I thought we'draise fifty or sixty. But yeah,
the community, the community that supportsHunter, England and Cook is so strong,
and I don't think I fully realizedthat strength to the kickstratter and every

(18:23):
day I'm humbled by that. Andthat's your blog, Hunter, Angry Gardener
Cook. It talks about well inreading about you, there's reference to Minnesota's
north Woods and California hunting in California. I am up against a break,
so I'm going to ask you ahold with me right there, but I

(18:44):
want to talk about the places you'vehunted. Coming up next, we're talking
to Hank Shaw and the book iscalled Buck Buck Moose. His blog is
Hunter, Angler, Gardner, cook. He's also written about gathering, hunting,
cooking, and all of the aboves. So for those of you ladies,
your man brings home a freezer fullof deer meat and you're trying to

(19:06):
figure out what creative things you cando with it. Hopefully we'll have an
answer for you coming up next.Hank Shaw is our guest. The book
is called Buck, Buck Moose.He he has made it his passion to
talk about what you should do orwhat you can do with the meat you

(19:26):
bring home from this season's hunt.And we're talking about different things you can
do with venison the ground right now, and I'll let you take it from
there. So, you know,depending I grind lots of different ways because
I will grind me you know,no fats for somethings, and with a

(19:47):
lot of fat for other things.And so I have that little bags marked
in a sausage grind or coarse burgeror a fine burger and that sort of
thing. And I just look allover the world because everybody has ground the
recipe everything from you know, theJapanese do meatballs, and you know,
more or less everybody does meatballs.If you don't really like meatballs. I
think there's something wrong with you.I agree with that. I totally agree.

(20:12):
There's got to be some meatball thatthat that you like. And I
grew up with, you know,those big Italian meatballs, and so I
make those two and Swedish meatballs fromthe seventies and all that kind of stuff,
and so I do a lot ofthat. I do a lot of
burgers, I do chili, Ido ground meat jerky. There's a recipe

(20:33):
in the book for kind of anold school ground meat jerkey. That's right.
Reminds me of the pemmican that thehold on. I'm going to ask
you to hold on the jerky becauseI had another question for you on there,
and I don't know, I don'twant to get away from the meatball.
So on the meatball and and differentthings like that. Is there a
particular style of seasoning, as particulartype of seasoning or anything else you're putting

(20:56):
in that any Every recipe is different, but the constance are you always have
something other than meats in the grind. So you've got your ground meat in
fat, sure, But if youmake meatball just out of that, unless
they're very very small, they're goingto be strangely tough and almost chalking a
It's an odd sort of paradox thatthe best meatballs a lot of have a

(21:19):
lot of bread or other kind ofgrain in them. So you always have
either bread that's mashed up, orbread crumbs or cooked for rice, or
something something that will make the meatballa little bit more fluffy. Tell me
something you do with your venison groundthat people are always surprised with something that

(21:41):
other people just hadn't thought about Ido. It's funny. One of the
reasons why I love this book isbecause the entire world eat something like venison.
And so I took riskies from allover the world that reflect that.
And so I was at the bankthe other day and the guy who was
talking with the bank is a guynamed Omar, and Omar's from Lebanon,

(22:06):
and so I was talking that Ineed to do this transaction for the Citizen
book, and he starts waxing poeticabout hunting gazelles in the eastern desert of
Lemanon. Wow, Wow, that'scrazy, are you? Oh? Never
even have thought of that? Andso then we got talking about what he
does, and as it happens,his favorite thing to do with his ground
gazelle is a recipe that's in thebook. It's these they call him kept

(22:29):
a kebabs, and it's like spicedground venison that's stuck on a skewer,
especially the flat skewers you can buy, and then you grill those and then
you just eat him with like atomato salad and onions or something, or
you can put in a pita orwhatever whatever. But actually had at a
at a Lebanese restaurant, but itwasn't with venison. It was d It

(22:52):
was either with lamb or beef.I think it was lamb. Yeah,
I think it may have been lamb. Yeah, we don't mean enough lamb
in our food. But anyway,that's I don't think so either. In
fact, if you if you don't, if you're not a hunter, lamb
is a pretty close approximation to thesize of the cuts of the typical white
tail. The flavor is different.Right. Well, my wife is from

(23:14):
India and she's from a southern city. She was She's Christian, but she
was raised Hindu and the city isis but the city is mostly Muslim,
so a lot of those dishes influencedher cooking growing up, and so that's
one of the dishes we eat.Is is actually it's called biryani and it
is a it's a traditional Indian Muslimdish, and it has to have lamb.

(23:37):
You just you, yeah, youcan't. You can't have it without
lamb. So there I've done itwith Dennison. There. Well, there
you go, there you go,and maybe maybe we should try. Well,
we'll see how the season goes.So to jerky, you were,
I stopped your jerky conversation, butI know people are going to be interested
in that, so I want herto be able to focus on it.
Take it away, all right,so everybody loves you. I mean it's

(24:00):
sort of a you know, meatcandy basically, because there's there's no one
who doesn't like some form of jerky. So I do three kinds basically,
I mean, in terms of structure, the flavorings can all be different,
but the most common what I'll dois I'll take a hind leg roast,
so some big roast off the hindleg of any animal, and I will
slice it reasonably thin, so Imean reasonably maybe a quarter inch and eighth

(24:25):
of an inch, depending on howthick I want it against the grain.
And what you do is you thenbrine it in a very salty, delicious
marinade for several days refrigerator. What'sin that than Well, each ferson is
different, but one of the onesthat I like a lot is I'll use
those little can chipotles in the doboand I'll chop them up and I'll mix

(24:48):
that with a little bit of soysauce and maybe a little some herbs,
and it's just a very The thingabout jerky is you actually want it to
be more flavorful on the get go, then you think you should make it
because the drying process mellows a lotof flavors. So if you have this

(25:10):
marinate with a bunch of Chipotle's anda dolbo and a whole bunch of other
things that you could barely eat whenit's when it's fresh, it'll actually mellow
out really well when it's dried out. So that's another that sort of pro
tip on making jerky interesting. Youever eat much tabasco? In fact,
I've been to Avery Island. I'ma big fanished Abaska. Wow, look
at you and the mcwaheney's. Well, the very first time I ever had

(25:33):
backstrap, and I was probably fiveyears old. It was fried at a
deer camp and the only thing wehad there was tabasco, and I remember
dousing it in tabasco. And anytimeI think of venison for me, and
maybe it's more nostalgia than anything else, but tabasco seems to go with venison

(25:55):
better than any other meat. Haveyou found that to be true? I
don't know. I'm kind of atabasco you know, addict, so I
put them almost everything. But youknow what's great about that, though,
is because sebasco is so acidic,there's so much vinegar in it. It
adds not only heat, but ithas that brightness to you know, it's

(26:15):
effectively just lean meat. And sothat's but that works as like a wild
turkey. It works with dozens,it works with quail. So I mean,
yes, it's a great choice toput on benison, but I don't
know if that it's any better thanon a wold turkey breast. Okay,
fair enough it again, I thinkit's probably more than anything else nostalgia.

(26:36):
Hankshaw is our guest. He'll continueto be our guest. The book is
Buck Buck Moose. We'll talk aboutbeers and wines that taste great. I
don't want to say pair well withthat's a little fancier than I would normally
say, but that tastes great withwhat we're cooking, and waterfowl, duck
and geese that he happens to bepassionate about eating as well. Coming up

(26:59):
next, Hank Shaw as our guest. His latest book is buck Buck,
Moose, Recipes and Techniques for Cookingdeer, elk antelope, moose, and
other antlered things, not just cookingthem, but eating them. His blog
is Hunter, Angler, Gardener Cook. What do you find pairs well with

(27:22):
venison in terms of beers and wines? Hank, I think you know before
you even get started on this,the iron rule of all this is drink
what you want. I'm not goingto be the guy that says, oh
my god, you're drinking this withthat. He's just you know, you're
a philistine or something like that.I'm not that guy. So, but
that said, I included a sectionin the book because there are some beers

(27:45):
and wines that work really well withdifferent kinds of editions. So, you
know, like anything fried, likefried things in general, like bubbles.
So if you let's say you didcountry fried steak and you happen to want
a wine today. You know,you could do worse than drink you know,

(28:06):
a sparkling rose or a sparkling redor hell even champagne. And in
beers. I mean, it's thethe old tradition is true in this case.
Like if you've got drag country friedsteak or something like that, you
kind of want, you know,a shiner or a lone star or something
that's you don't think too hard about, you know, in other cases like

(28:27):
if you did you know, youmentioned that your wife is from India.
If you did a venison curry,well then you know there's a reason why
India pale l works well with curries. Is that is that it's spicy.
It's got a lot of a lotof kick to it in slavor that can
stand up to something that's very stronglike a curry. Do you ever drink
Kingfisher? Kingfisher? Sure, I'vedrink lots Kingfisher And that's that. But

(28:52):
that falls into your sort of lonestar and shiner kind of category because it's
a it's a it's an easy drinkinglogger. Yes, I describe it as
a side dish, not a beverage, because it feels like I'm eating it
rather than drinking it. I don'tknow, it's a little heavy. I'm
an American session beer drinker when I'mjust drinking at home every day, and
so if I'm drinking that with Indianfood, I'm going to have a nap

(29:15):
afterwards, which is in and ofitself a delightful thing. But any any
other thoughts on what goes well withdear me? Yeah? I mean I
think in terms of a red wine, this is your chance to bring out
the big bad reds. You know, you Tabernets cook around blends, the
big Italian blends, the Rioja Spanishblends. But I'll tell you this you

(29:36):
speaking of Spanish, I've had somereally good Texas book Country temporneos. Yes,
that goes well with Edison. Allright, I have a recommendation for
you I want you to try ifyou have it. It's a vineyard outside
of Fredericksburg called Becker Yep. Andthey have a cab called Iconoclass. It's
a twelve dollars bottle of wine thatI discovered several years ago when I went

(30:00):
to specs O, our big youknow, spirit wine, beer distributor here,
retailer here, and I said,I want a twelve dollars bottle that
I can drink every day, Andthey went and pulled the Becker iconoclast.
And I probably have one hundred bottlesin my house right now because I never
want to run out, and Ihave found for the price point, it

(30:22):
is a perfect wine. Perfect You'renot a hoarder, are you? No,
I'm not a hoarder, but youknow what I am. There are
certain things the household shouldn't run outof. Right. Toilet paper and wine
are two of them. Before Ilet you go, Hank, I would
like to talk about another, anotherpassion of yours, because it is migratory

(30:45):
bird season in Texas. Duck,what's that? This teal season, isn't
it? Don't get me lying.I've never hunted till I don't know.
I know it's white winged. YouI can say, jep with a guy
who'll put you on until real nicein Bay City? Is that right?
We need to talk? Can yousay his name? Sure? It's a
god named Larry Robinson, A coastalwings, coastal wings. Yeah, he's

(31:08):
down a big city, all right, Larry Robinson in Bay City and he's
a guide. Oh yeah, yeah, he's a totally a full on outfitter.
I work with him a lot.Okay, when you work with him
a lot means you come down andhunt with him. We do cooking schools,
so we so we'll take clients andwe'll hunt. We'll hunt either hogs

(31:29):
or deer or waterfowl. And thenI'll do cooking schools. And so they
hunt and they do a cooking schooland I cook fancy dinner stoom every night.
You know what we need to do. I own a place here called
a Redneck Country Club, and weneed to have you come. You need
we need to have you come anddo a book lecture because we have something
called Redneck Readers, which is ourbook club. We need to have you

(31:51):
come down do a lecture. Wecommit to buy X number of books,
and maybe we tie a hunt andan evening with it. That would be
That would be a blast. Ithink you would enjoy it. I know
we would anyway. Doug Duck goosemigratory birds. Quick bit. You know
what, let me double back toone thing, Hank before we get off
of it. If you were givingpeople advice that on cooking venison. Let's

(32:15):
say mom's at home, he bringshome the deer, and she's going to
start cooking it. The thing Itook away from that is people usually overcook
venison, and don't would that bethe one rule you'd give. I think
the easiest quickest thing to say isis that your people mostly either overcook it
or undertook it. So any cut, any luxury cut, any nice roast,

(32:37):
or any backstrap of tenderloin, cookit medium rare like a steak.
Okay, every other part of theanimal cooks slow and low like brisket.
You know, you're thinking these areyour crock pot, your slow cooker areas,
And a lot of people will saythat, oh, the shoulder's too
tough, We'll just keep cooking it. It will fall a heart. You're
a slow and low guy. Mybuddy owns a place called Good Company Bar

(33:00):
which is a real problem barbecue here, and that's his advice, slow and
low. I noticed on one ofyour goose articles, cook your goose slow
and low and let the fat renderout. Yep, especially the legs and
the wings and the rest of thegoose. You know, the breast meat
you can cook hot and fast likea steak. That's true with any ducks
and geese. And on the issueof ducks and geese, give me the

(33:22):
one minute rundown on if you've youpointed out that that people seem to be
afraid to cook it or they don'thave a lot of experience cooking it,
the one minute run down on whyyou shouldn't be and what to do.
I think the one minute one rundownis, don't think of ducks and geese
as birds. Think of them justlike venison. So the breast is the

(33:42):
backstrap, and everything else on thebird is just like the shoulder or the
neck. Slow and low on legsand wings, and hot and fast on
the breast meat. And if youdo that, then you are one hundred
times better duck cooked than most people. Well, and what do you serve
with duck? I admit I'm nota huge duck fan, but maybe I
just haven't had good Well, youneed to let me cook you for cook.

(34:05):
I've gone to Chinese restaurants, inhigh end Chinese restaurants on occasion where
they serve duck, and I justI never I never developed a taste for
it. But you know what,I'm more than willing to try yours.
The what do I cook with duck? I mostly cook it pretty simple.
You know. The legs I'll oftencook will slow and low and then shred

(34:25):
them, and the tacos like marbacolor, and then the breast meat.
You know, it's just it's agreat easy Tuesday night steak. You know,
you cook a couple of breasts withskin on and krispy skin and medium
rare meat and salt pepper, maybea little lemon. That's all you need.
Everybody likes breast absolutely. And thatbook is Duck Duck Goose Recipes and

(34:47):
Techniques for Cooking Ducks and Geese.The first book we talked about is Buck
Buck Mooze, and then the firstone I have more notes on you,
Hank Show. The first one wascalled what Hunter Gatherer was Hunt Gather Cook,
and the blog is Hunter, AnglerGardener Cook. I somehow suspect I'm

(35:13):
going to be seeing you round aboutmy parts here sometime soon. We're going
to work something out, Hankshaw.Thank you for being our guest, Thanks
for having me on. Buck BuckMoose is the book and the website Hunter
Angler, Gardener Cook. If youliked the Michael Berry Show and Podcast.
Please tell one friend, and ifyou're so inclined, write a nice review

(35:37):
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(36:01):
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(36:28):
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(36:53):
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