May 31, 2024 • 33 mins
ICYMI: Hour One of ‘Later, with Mo’Kelly’ Presents – An in-depth look at Donald Trump becoming the first U.S. president to be convicted of criminal charges after a Manhattan jury found the former president guilty of 34 counts of falsifying business records - on KFI AM 640…Live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app
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(00:22):
Kay if I am six forty yearslater with Mo Kelly, We're live everywhere
in the iHeartRadio app. It wasan emotional day to day. I need
not tell you it was very emotional. I think America is going through some
stuff right about now. In fact, America has been going through some stuff
for quite some time and will continueto go through some stuff for the foreseeable
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future. As you know, formerPresident Donald Trump was convicted on thirty four
felon accounts. Today, some folksare ecstatic, some folks are pretty mad,
pissed off. Some people say theverdict is proof of the system working,
and some people say the verdict proofsof the justice system is corrupt and
(01:06):
broken, And maybe you fall somewherein between. New York didn't allow cameras
or audio streams of its court proceedings, not just for this trial, for
any trial. And because of that, whatever we heard or saw, and
I put that in quotation marks anyanalysis. We got excerpts from court transcripts
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that was all filtered through whatever mediayou and I were watching or listening to.
We didn't actually see the trial.We didn't actually hear the trial.
None of us experienced any of thetestimony, not one witness. We didn't
experience the opening and closing arguments.All of us were even privy to evidence
and rulings made outside the presence ofthe jury. Thinks that the jury would
(01:53):
not have seen, would not haveheard. All of us have feelings about
the verdict, and everyone on radioand TV has been telling you how they
feel about the verdict. Well exceptfor me, and I haven't said what
I feel about the verdict, andI'm not going to, at least not
yet. I think there's some otherthings we need to cover first. I
want to go a different route.The verdict, as a factual matter,
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is momentous in the history of thiscountry. The first time a former president
has been indicted, put on criminaltrial, and convicted. It is historic.
That's not an opinion, that's nota value judgment. That's just a
statement of fact. From where Isit, there are three threads I think
we should follow, not just tonight, but in the coming days, in
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the coming weeks, and coming months. There are three threads, three roads,
if you will, we should followlegal, political, social, legal,
political, and social. Let's firststart with legal. Legally, Donald
Trump is a convicted felon full stop. He can, and he will appeal,
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but he's a convicted felon and thereare limits on what grounds in which
he can appeal. It's not ado over, it's not a retrial.
You can't just say, well,I thought the judge was biased and corrupt
and conflicted. No, that's notrounds for an appeal. There's got to
be some sort of error in theadministration of the trial. You can appeal
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on things like evidence which was allowedin, or testimony allowed in prejudicial versus
probative, things like that. Butregardless of the appeals process, and that
will play out on its own,the justice system still moves forward. It's
not like they're gonna hold up sentencingto see what happens with the appeal.
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Trump will still have to show upfor sentencing. That clock does not stop,
and he'll be sentenced, ironically enough, just days before the RNC,
the Republican National Convention. Legally,he can still run for president and he's
not gonna slow down. Legally,he can still become president. Legally,
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he can still serve as president evenfrom prison. Awkward, but legally he
could do it. It's not clearon whether he'd be allowed to vote because
he's a Florida resident, and convictedfelons can't vote in Florida until they complete
their sentence. So going back towhat happens at sentencing, that could include
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a suspended sentence or probation that couldimpact or preclude him from voting all together,
or have no impact at all.So that's something that remains to be
seen. That's a part of thelegal evolution of all this. All right,
let's go to the political, becausewe all care about the political.
Politically, Donald Trump is going tocontinue to use all this as a fundraising
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tool and he's going to make millionsand millions and millions and millions, and
most of it will go to legalfees. And there's nothing wrong with that,
you know, political discussion, legaldiscussion not the same. But politically,
that's how he's going to use it. Politically, it's going to be
pretty complicated for the Republican Party becauseRepublicans down ballot. I'm talking about people
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who are running for state Senate,or they're running for Senate, or they're
running for Congress, or they're runningfor mayor same ballot, but down ballot
they're going to have to either defendor distance themselves from Donald Trump. That's
easy to do if you're in asolid red state, but not so easy
if you're in a purple one ora purple district. Thirty four fellon in
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convictions. It's just a fact.You don't have to like it, but
it is a fact. It's notthe best way to recruit independent or moderate
voters. It's an uphill climb inthat way. Just trust me. It's
not a plus. Politically, theGOP is going to have to make some
tough decisions. There's a presidential debate. Remember that it's in less than a
month. Less than a month.That's probably going to be a topic.
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I don't know how it's going toplay out on that debate stage, but
it's definitely going to be a questionor answer on that debate stage. Don't
call me prophetic, just know it'scoming. Let's talk about the social we
did the legal political. Here's thesocial Americans. We were already messed up
in the head, we were alreadyuptight Americans, we were already extremely divided.
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This doesn't bring us together. Nodebate there. This does not bring
us together. But the legal systemwas not designed to bring anyone together.
It exists independently. It adjudicates cases. It's not about kumbaya, it's not
about bringing Americans together. But here'swhat I will say, And this is
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the only feelings I'm going to giveas of yet. You can't love America
only when you win. For allI hear about loving the Constitution, being
a patriot, I love America.You can't only love America when you win.
By that, I mean an election. You can't love America only when
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you like court verdicts. I meanthose things don't intersect. That's like saying
I love my wife when she doeswhat I tell her what to do.
That's not love, that's control.You can't only love America when it goes
your way. Think about that twelvejurors. They were unanimous. Maybe a
different twelve people would have yielded adifferent verdict. Maybe maybe that's why Voider
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is so damn important. Different peopleyou might have gotten a different verdict.
That's why elections and appointments of judgesare so damn important. But you know
what, that's how our legal systemworks, our justice system. That's the
way it works. You don't getto tell people America love it or leave
it on Tuesday when your guy winsan election, but then say America has
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gone to hell on Wednesday because youdon't like the result of a verdict.
I happen to think and I doAmerica, and no one can tell me
otherwise about how I feel about America. Loving America is loving her unconditionally.
It does not mean that you agreewith everything that it espouses. It doesn't
mean that you agree with every policyit puts forward. It doesn't mean that
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you even like what it's doing internationallyas a matter of foreign policy, but
you still love her unconditionally. Loveher also means that you should and probably
do, criticize her, and Ithink that there's room for all of that.
Disagree with the verdict, absolutely sure, Sure, I can't list all
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the verdicts that I disagree with.For on a federal level, on a
state level, on a local level. The justice system has not been something
that I've agreed with all the time, almost never, for that matter.
But I still love America, andI do know that our justice system is
the best in the world comparatively.Speaking. For all the misguide to talk
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about how we've done devolved into athird world country, clearly you haven't been
to a third world country. Ifyou think that we're on the present piece
of becoming that we are nowhere close. We don't have a kangaroo court system.
We don't have any of that.But You're allowed to feel how you
feel. I'm not going to tellyou how to feel. I'm just giving
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you some facts. Our system isimperfect and none of the people who comprise
it are perfect. But socially,America is going to go through some stuff.
It's been going through some stuff,and it will for the foreseeable future
because this today was a momentous day. It's not one for celebration. It's
not one to i would say,sensationalize and say that America's gone to hell
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in a handbasket. There's much morenuance in here as far as what happened,
why it happened, and where wego from here. And for the
rest of the hour, we're goingto be talking about this, where we
go from here, and what tomake of this moment you're listening to later
with Moe Kelly on demand from Yes, I'm talking about the verdict which was
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handed down today in New York inwhich former President Donald Trump was convicted on
all thirty four felony counts related tothe misdemeanor of falsifying business records, and
then it was escalated to a felonybecause it was done in service of another
crime that was which was proved todaybeyond a reasonable doubt according to the jury.
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And afterward, former President Trump cameout and addressed the media, as
he's often known to do, andhe said many of the same things that
he said before. But I wantto discuss one of the things, one
of the recurring themes that he's expressedover the many years. He said that
this trial was rigged, or hesaid, and he said that the judge
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was conflicted and corrupted. Well,let me just deal with this idea of
something being rigged. If you knowthey you know that. Donald Trump said
that the twenty sixteen election was riggedbefore the election he won. He said
that the twenty twenty election was riggedbefore the election and he lost, but
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the Republicans took control of the House. I'm pretty sure. Don't quote me
on this. I'm pretty sure thatthe Democrats were so good at rigging elections,
and clearly they're not. If theyweren't as inept as I know them
to be, they probably would haverigged it. And I'm saying this tongue
in cheek. They probably would haverigged it so they would have had control
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of the House, the Senate,and the Oval Office. Why because they're
all on the same ballot. Theyonly rigged one race on the same ballot,
So that defies credulity, as theysay that strains credulity. It's a
little hard to understand that. Butif the process is rigged, why would
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he be running again? Now?He will say that he's running because he
wants to save America. He wantsto save the Constitution. And he's doing
it like they're coming after me becausethey're trying to get to you. That's
what he often says. But I'mtrying to figure out what he's trying to
do for America. I'm trying tofigure out, as a voter, what
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he hopes to do, other than, i'll say, adjudicate his grievances,
the issues that he's mad about,or the people that he wants to get
back at. But this idea ofrigged, if this system is rigged,
it's not rigged very well because theDemocrats should do far better than they do.
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Don't you think that if the Democratscould rig the presidential election. They
could rig the House election. Don'tyou think if they could rig the presidential
election, they would have rigged theHouse and the Senate, so Joe Biden
could have gotten everything done that hewanted to get done, and they wouldn't
have to have any say so fromthe Republicans. Don't you think that.
I mean, if I'm going torig an election, that's the first thing
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I'm going to do. I'm goingto make sure that I rigg the election
so I can get everything I want, not just something that I want,
not just a divided government where JoeBiden can't get much of anything passed,
and he has a divided government whereyou have Speaker Mike Johnson thwarting him at
every turn, which is okay,that's the whole point of these I call
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it the three ring circus, whereyou have the different branches, the coequal
branches, so you don't have thepower of just one person to do everything.
But if you don't have any faithin America, if you don't have
any faith in her electoral processes,if you don't have any faith in the
justice system, then what is itwe're talking about? What is it we
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have to talk about as Americans.If you actually think that America has fallen
down this hell hole because the guyyou didn't want to win one, or
because Donald Trump was convicted today,then I don't know if you really loved
America. And it may be painfulto hear that, but I think it's
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a fair question to ask if yourlove is that fragile, or if you
only view love of country through thelens of things going the way that I
want. The only way that DonaldTrump lost was because it was fixed,
question mark. The only way thathe could have been convicted is because of
some sort of corruption on the partof the judge. And let me talk
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about this because I know just alittle something about law. There was an
opportunity for the Trump defense to fileemotion of recusal against this judge. If
they actually thought that he was somehowcorrupt or biased on the take, anything
of that nature, they would havedone so, and could have done so
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as a precursor to appeal. Theycould have filed the motion, it would
have been denied, and then theycould have appealed using that. For whatever
reasons they did not. That's whyI talk about we didn't actually hear or
see what was going on in thetrial. Now, I personally I read
the transcripts because I wanted to readas best I could what was actually said.
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But for the most part, peopledid not. People relied on what
they heard on their favorite cable newschannel, and then they responded to what
maybe president former President Trump said whenhe was standing outside of court, but
not what actually happened in the trial. And we have this skewed view of
what our American judicial system, howit's supposed to work, because we're looking
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at it through the filters of cablenews. Now it actually happened in the
trial. I don't know if peopleeven actually read the indictment. Most people
had talked to have not. Mostpeople I've talked to today have not read
any of the court transcripts. Butthey are really, really sure of what
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they feel about the justice system.It's interesting that everyone who believes the system
is rigged has taken no umbrage withhow the current Supreme Court came to be
when all of those elections were goingout. It was not rigged. When
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Trump's justices were selected, the samejustices who everyone believed at one point in
time, we're going to get himoff. Scott free. These are the
rumors, these were the conspiracy theoriesand all of that. Everything can't be
someone else's faulty. It can't bealways someone else. That's what I always
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tell, even my own children whenthey come to me and they say,
it's not my fault, it wasbecause of this. Because of that,
I'm like, if you're the onlyone at the center of this and everything
points to you, it can't beeveryone else. And that is how I
look at this situation right now.Well, you mentioned the justices, and
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there wouldn't be three appointees of DonaldTrump unless he won the twenty sixteen rigged
air quotes election. There wouldn't havebeen actually one of them unless Mitch McConnell
did not step in and block thenomination process of Merrick Galler Garland. That's
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just basic history. If you wantto talk about rigged and how the government
is supposed to work, you know, and maybe people don't really know civics,
Maybe they don't know how the countryis supposed to work. Maybe they
don't know the coequal branches and howthey function together. And we are so
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partisan now where we believe that anythingwhen I say is the collective, we
that anything doesn't go our preferred way, that it must be somehow rigged against
us or somehow corrupt, or theother side scheming and making it so there's
I would I will listen to theconversation of Trump not being guilty on the
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merits if you want to discuss thecase and say because of this witness or
that we can we can have thatdiscussion. But to dismiss out of hand,
well that judge was appointed by aDemocrat, so therefore he's corrupt.
And I said, wait a minute, well, well, are we only
going to have politicians are elected officialsinvestigated by people of the same party.
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Is that where we're at now?Are we saying that when Bob Menendez is
on trial, it's rigged unless hehas a democratic judge. Are we going
to say now that Congressman Queller,when he's on trial, that's it's it's
rigged unless there's a democratic judge.Is that what we're saying? Is that
what we're doing here? It's Laterwith mo Kelly caf I AM six forty.
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We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Later with Moe
Kelly on demand from KFI AM sixforty last second, as we continue our
discussion of the Trump verdict today,what it means, legally, politically,
socially, America is going through somestuff. It's an uncomfortable time in America.
It's not the first time, it'snot the last time, but it's
definitely a different time. And Iwas dealing with this idea of everything being
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rigged, or so former President Trumpwas said. He said today after the
verdict that the trial was rigged.It's a disgrace for all America. It's
a common refrain that I hear frompeople and I and I'm asking the question.
It's almost rhetorical. It's almost rhetorical. Is the assumption that Republicans can
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only be investigated by Republicans? Isthe expectation that that can only be Republican
appointed judges who can preside over caseswhich the defendant is a Republican. If
so, that has to work bothways, And if so, then people
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who are not Republicans should not takeanything that the Supreme Court says with any
type of seriousness. If we're goingto look at everything through the lens of
political partisanship, are we saying thatonly Republicans are above political ideology influencing their
behavior. Is that what we're saying, Because if that's what we're saying,
I can't have a serious conversation withyou. I can't. And I'm not
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even going to get into all thestuff about Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas.
I'm just saying, as a ruleof principle, if you think or thought
that Judge Marshawn was somehow corrupt orconflicted, the time for that to have
been addressed would have been in thetrial, and the Trump's defense team would
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have filed a motion for arsusal alongthose lines, and then if we're then
subsequently turned down denied, then theycould use that on appeal. They did
not do that because why it wasnot an issue, was not something that
it could support in a court oflaw. So are we going to talk
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about the actual case or we're justgoing to talk about our feelings in a
nebulous, amorphous way about well,I just don't like the verdict. Okay,
if you don't like the verdict,got it. I feel the same
way about a lot of verdicts.But if we're actually talking about the specifics
of the case, what was done, why it was done, assessing the
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evidence which was only before the jury, not what you heard, not what
you read, not what you weretold through analysis on cable news. That's
a very different conversation, very different, and I'm willing to have that conversation
with you. But you're of theopinion that, well, it's all rigged,
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Then why is Donald Trump running forpresident? If it's rigged? Either
he believes it or he doesn't believeit. If he does believe it,
well it doesn't matter. And theevil Democrats are masterminds and they are the
puppeteer puppet masters of the world,except they can't figure out how to win
a congressional election on the same ballotnames on the same ballot. They can
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fix President, but they can't fixCongress, the House. They can't do
all three branches. You know,I'm supposed to believe the Justice Department when
they indict Bob Menendez, but I'mnot supposed to believe the Justice system when
they indict in Donald Trump in Januarysixth. I can't mentally reconcile the two.
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It's the same Justice Department and Twayla. You're asking me off air about
how I think this case will impactthese other cases against Donald Trump. It's
a great question. I think forthe most part, not at all.
Here's what the Manhattan case is.A state level case. It's not a
federal case. It's not anything whichis directly connected to the January sixth case
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and the mar Lago Classified Documents case. Also, both of the federal cases
have been delayed for varying reasons whereit's not going to be heard anytime soon.
It probably not until well into twentytwenty five. Who knows what America
will look like then we won't evenknow that We'll have a presidential election Between
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now and then, there's no telling. I try to tell people with politics
all the time, everything changes justabout every week in the months leading up
to an election. How people feelabout this moment will be very different.
Two weeks from now, something mayhappen. Someone may have a medical emergency.
There may be not only an Octobersurprise, but there may be a
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June, July, and August surprise. Things will come out, There may
be a video here and an audiotape. Look, Joe Biden could go
up the steps of Air Force onetrip and fall all the way down the
steps backward. And that could ifnot in his life that could incapacitate him
as far as becoming president. Samewith Donald Trump at a rally. There
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are so many unknowns and variables.Who knows what's going to happen. But
to answer questions specifically with the cases, it's too early to tell. And
for example, how about this now, it came back to me. If
Judge Marshawn were conflicted or corrupt becausehe was appointed by a Democrat, then
what am I supposed to think aboutAileen Cannon who was appointed by Donald Trump.
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We can play this game anyhow anyway you want. I mean,
is it only okay or is someoneonly above reproach or speculation when we like
the person, is that what we'redoing here? I don't do that.
I don't do that. I lookBob Menendez and I think, hmm,
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that God looks guilty, period.Congressman quelor m looks s guilty to me.
And we can run the list ofother elected officials and politicians who've gotten
in trouble over the years, andwe look at the specifics of the case.
But if we're going to default andassume that the person presiding over the
case, be it Judge Tanya Chuckkinor Judge Murshan or Alien Cannon, then
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we just lost our way and therewill never be any belief or faith in
this justice system. If today it'sthe only time that you disagreed with the
verdict, or you think today isbeyond the pale and America's justice system has
fallen apart, then you haven't reallybeen sincerely invested in the process. You
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just haven't. You can't think thatthe justice system has somehow run astray today
today, today, Okay. Youknow my frustration is people generally want to
have it both ways. They wantto say that Judge Murshawn is conflicted and
corrupted and act like Samuel Alito withthose flags, no big deal, or
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Clarence Thomas with all the trips andeverything. Oh, that's no big deal.
You can't have it both ways.If you think, well, Marshawn
who was appointed by a Democrat,Judge Aileen Cannon was appointed directly by Donald
Trump, or you could say,if it should get to the Supreme Court,
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or there's a case before the SupremeCourt regarding presidential immunity, how can
you do that when those Supreme Courtjustices, some of them were appointed by
Donald Trump. You know what Imean, you can't have it both ways.
If you think that their political ideologytrump's either their legal acumen or their
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impartiality, then it has to beconsistent in the application. That's all I'm
asking for, all I've ever askedfor is consistency. And if you believe
that Democrats cannot adjudicate Republicans, thenyou also have to be of the opinion
that Republicans can judicate democrats. Otherwiseyou're full of it. You're listening to
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later with Moe Kelly on Demand fromKFI AM six forty, and I know
there are people who are listening rightnow. Maybe you want of them who
do not agree with me, vehementlydisagree with everything that I said, And
that's okay. That is okay.Won't be the first time, and it
definitely will not be the last time. But I try to be even handed
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as far as how I approach thesesubjects. I try to be consistent as
far as my expectations of whether somethingis fair or unfair, because at the
end of the end of the day, I'm looking for consistency. Fairness is
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a result of consistency. I can'ttake people seriously who only apply a standard
to one group of people or inone direction, and regardless of whatever you
believe, you believe what you believe, and I know you believe it strongly,
But if you don't believe it consistently, then I don't think we can
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have a legitimate conversation. And I'mlooking for a legitimate conversation. I think
that there is value in discussing thecase of former President Trumpet and what happened
and why it happened, and maybewhose testimony was credible or less credible.
I think there is value and meritand discussing whether you can actually escalate a
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misdemean or two a felony. I'mwilling to listen to all of that,
But at the same time, Idon't want you to sit there and just
disregard the other evidence, which isdocumentary in nature, the checks, what
was signed, signed by whom.It wasn't just Michael Cohen, it was
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also Hope Hicks and others who testified. And I say now, and I
say it every time. Read theindictment, read the actual testimony. Don't
tell me what so and so saidon MSNBC, Don't tell me what so
and so alleged on Fox News.Take it from the actual transcript. Tell
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me specifically grounds of appeal? Whatwhat is it you will be appealing?
Oh, I don't like the verdict. The verdict was unfair. That's not
grounds for appeal. That just meansyou don't like the verdict, and that
too, is okay, but it'snot grounds for an appeal. Big picture,
it's going to be a bumpy ridebetween now and the presidential inauguration,
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whoever that is. It's going tobe bumpy for all different reasons, different
steps along the way. We gota presidential debate coming up, we have
a sentencing hearing. We have allsorts of political surprises, which you're going
to happen because politics are dirty.I don't like people trying to conflate politics
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and the justice system, but politicsis definitely dirty. Sometimes. I think
if we knew more civics, we'dbe able to make the distinction between both
and know that this was a statecase, not a federal case. And
there's this partition between the president andthe Justice Department. YadA YadA, YadA,
blah blah blah. But we'll dothat some other day. I love
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America, and I don't have toapologize to anyone anyone as to why or
how I love America in spite ofwhat I think are as shortcomings. I
love America in spite of what Iknow to be. It's complicated and oftentimes
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troubling past when it comes to thejustice system. But I love America despite
whatever may happen, whether I likewhat it does, whether I like who's
elected or not, because loving Americato me, and this is just me.
Maybe you can turn your love onand off. Maybe your love is
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predicated on whether things go your way, but it's not with me. It's
not with me. There have beenpresidents that I voted for who won,
and there have been presidents I've votedfor, excuse me, presidential candidates I've
voted for who have lost. Andyou know what, the world just keeps
on spinning. And if we alreadyhave a longer conversation, I will tell
you all the reasons why who getselected president has less real impact on your
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day to day lives than your mayor, or your city council person, or
your LA county supervisor, or yourgovernor. With the exception of obviously the
Supreme Court justices. If there areany appointees, those individuals can impact your
life for a generation. But that'sa different discussion. I love America and
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it has nothing to do with today'sverdict. It has nothing to do with
what will transpire in the classified documentscase. It will have nothing to do
with whatever does happen in the Georgiacase, if that ever actually goes to
trial, the Georgia Rico case.It has everything to do with America and
the totality of what she represents andher place in the world. This is
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an uncomfortable time and for many people, today is a day that is making
you very angry. I don't celebrate. I have absolutely no emotional attachment to
this case at all. I'm goingto sleep like a baby, and I
would have slept like a baby ifa former presient and Trump were acquitted on
all counts. It has no impacton my life. Despite what you want
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to tell me on social media.This is going to evolve. How it's
going to evolve. We're going toget through this, and no one knows
how it's going to turn out.We didn't know about the verdict today,
and we don't know about any otherverdict in the future. We don't know
about the appeal, and we don'tknow about the election. So for everyone
who wants to say, well,this is going to guarantee that Trump is
going to win, it doesn't workthat way. Or this is going to
(33:29):
guarantee that Joe Biden's going to win, it doesn't work that way. Why
because it isn't rigged. It's laterwith Mo Kelly k IF I am six
forty. We're live everywhere on theiHeartRadio app. More stimulating Tom. There's
no log in require k S.I'm the kost Ehd two Los Angeles,
(33:50):
Orange County, Live everywhere on theradio.
Kay if I am six forty yearslater with Mo Kelly, We're live everywhere
in the iHeartRadio app. It wasan emotional day to day. I need
not tell you it was very emotional. I think America is going through some
stuff right about now. In fact, America has been going through some stuff
for quite some time and will continueto go through some stuff for the foreseeable
(00:44):
future. As you know, formerPresident Donald Trump was convicted on thirty four
felon accounts. Today, some folksare ecstatic, some folks are pretty mad,
pissed off. Some people say theverdict is proof of the system working,
and some people say the verdict proofsof the justice system is corrupt and
(01:06):
broken, And maybe you fall somewherein between. New York didn't allow cameras
or audio streams of its court proceedings, not just for this trial, for
any trial. And because of that, whatever we heard or saw, and
I put that in quotation marks anyanalysis. We got excerpts from court transcripts
(01:30):
that was all filtered through whatever mediayou and I were watching or listening to.
We didn't actually see the trial.We didn't actually hear the trial.
None of us experienced any of thetestimony, not one witness. We didn't
experience the opening and closing arguments.All of us were even privy to evidence
and rulings made outside the presence ofthe jury. Thinks that the jury would
(01:53):
not have seen, would not haveheard. All of us have feelings about
the verdict, and everyone on radioand TV has been telling you how they
feel about the verdict. Well exceptfor me, and I haven't said what
I feel about the verdict, andI'm not going to, at least not
yet. I think there's some otherthings we need to cover first. I
want to go a different route.The verdict, as a factual matter,
(02:17):
is momentous in the history of thiscountry. The first time a former president
has been indicted, put on criminaltrial, and convicted. It is historic.
That's not an opinion, that's nota value judgment. That's just a
statement of fact. From where Isit, there are three threads I think
we should follow, not just tonight, but in the coming days, in
(02:38):
the coming weeks, and coming months. There are three threads, three roads,
if you will, we should followlegal, political, social, legal,
political, and social. Let's firststart with legal. Legally, Donald
Trump is a convicted felon full stop. He can, and he will appeal,
(02:58):
but he's a convicted felon and thereare limits on what grounds in which
he can appeal. It's not ado over, it's not a retrial.
You can't just say, well,I thought the judge was biased and corrupt
and conflicted. No, that's notrounds for an appeal. There's got to
be some sort of error in theadministration of the trial. You can appeal
(03:21):
on things like evidence which was allowedin, or testimony allowed in prejudicial versus
probative, things like that. Butregardless of the appeals process, and that
will play out on its own,the justice system still moves forward. It's
not like they're gonna hold up sentencingto see what happens with the appeal.
(03:43):
Trump will still have to show upfor sentencing. That clock does not stop,
and he'll be sentenced, ironically enough, just days before the RNC,
the Republican National Convention. Legally,he can still run for president and he's
not gonna slow down. Legally,he can still become president. Legally,
(04:05):
he can still serve as president evenfrom prison. Awkward, but legally he
could do it. It's not clearon whether he'd be allowed to vote because
he's a Florida resident, and convictedfelons can't vote in Florida until they complete
their sentence. So going back towhat happens at sentencing, that could include
(04:29):
a suspended sentence or probation that couldimpact or preclude him from voting all together,
or have no impact at all.So that's something that remains to be
seen. That's a part of thelegal evolution of all this. All right,
let's go to the political, becausewe all care about the political.
Politically, Donald Trump is going tocontinue to use all this as a fundraising
(04:50):
tool and he's going to make millionsand millions and millions and millions, and
most of it will go to legalfees. And there's nothing wrong with that,
you know, political discussion, legaldiscussion not the same. But politically,
that's how he's going to use it. Politically, it's going to be
pretty complicated for the Republican Party becauseRepublicans down ballot. I'm talking about people
(05:12):
who are running for state Senate,or they're running for Senate, or they're
running for Congress, or they're runningfor mayor same ballot, but down ballot
they're going to have to either defendor distance themselves from Donald Trump. That's
easy to do if you're in asolid red state, but not so easy
if you're in a purple one ora purple district. Thirty four fellon in
(05:33):
convictions. It's just a fact.You don't have to like it, but
it is a fact. It's notthe best way to recruit independent or moderate
voters. It's an uphill climb inthat way. Just trust me. It's
not a plus. Politically, theGOP is going to have to make some
tough decisions. There's a presidential debate. Remember that it's in less than a
month. Less than a month.That's probably going to be a topic.
(05:56):
I don't know how it's going toplay out on that debate stage, but
it's definitely going to be a questionor answer on that debate stage. Don't
call me prophetic, just know it'scoming. Let's talk about the social we
did the legal political. Here's thesocial Americans. We were already messed up
in the head, we were alreadyuptight Americans, we were already extremely divided.
(06:18):
This doesn't bring us together. Nodebate there. This does not bring
us together. But the legal systemwas not designed to bring anyone together.
It exists independently. It adjudicates cases. It's not about kumbaya, it's not
about bringing Americans together. But here'swhat I will say, And this is
(06:40):
the only feelings I'm going to giveas of yet. You can't love America
only when you win. For allI hear about loving the Constitution, being
a patriot, I love America.You can't only love America when you win.
By that, I mean an election. You can't love America only when
(07:00):
you like court verdicts. I meanthose things don't intersect. That's like saying
I love my wife when she doeswhat I tell her what to do.
That's not love, that's control.You can't only love America when it goes
your way. Think about that twelvejurors. They were unanimous. Maybe a
different twelve people would have yielded adifferent verdict. Maybe maybe that's why Voider
(07:28):
is so damn important. Different peopleyou might have gotten a different verdict.
That's why elections and appointments of judgesare so damn important. But you know
what, that's how our legal systemworks, our justice system. That's the
way it works. You don't getto tell people America love it or leave
it on Tuesday when your guy winsan election, but then say America has
(07:51):
gone to hell on Wednesday because youdon't like the result of a verdict.
I happen to think and I doAmerica, and no one can tell me
otherwise about how I feel about America. Loving America is loving her unconditionally.
It does not mean that you agreewith everything that it espouses. It doesn't
mean that you agree with every policyit puts forward. It doesn't mean that
(08:16):
you even like what it's doing internationallyas a matter of foreign policy, but
you still love her unconditionally. Loveher also means that you should and probably
do, criticize her, and Ithink that there's room for all of that.
Disagree with the verdict, absolutely sure, Sure, I can't list all
(08:37):
the verdicts that I disagree with.For on a federal level, on a
state level, on a local level. The justice system has not been something
that I've agreed with all the time, almost never, for that matter.
But I still love America, andI do know that our justice system is
the best in the world comparatively.Speaking. For all the misguide to talk
(08:58):
about how we've done devolved into athird world country, clearly you haven't been
to a third world country. Ifyou think that we're on the present piece
of becoming that we are nowhere close. We don't have a kangaroo court system.
We don't have any of that.But You're allowed to feel how you
feel. I'm not going to tellyou how to feel. I'm just giving
(09:18):
you some facts. Our system isimperfect and none of the people who comprise
it are perfect. But socially,America is going to go through some stuff.
It's been going through some stuff,and it will for the foreseeable future
because this today was a momentous day. It's not one for celebration. It's
not one to i would say,sensationalize and say that America's gone to hell
(09:41):
in a handbasket. There's much morenuance in here as far as what happened,
why it happened, and where wego from here. And for the
rest of the hour, we're goingto be talking about this, where we
go from here, and what tomake of this moment you're listening to later
with Moe Kelly on demand from Yes, I'm talking about the verdict which was
(10:03):
handed down today in New York inwhich former President Donald Trump was convicted on
all thirty four felony counts related tothe misdemeanor of falsifying business records, and
then it was escalated to a felonybecause it was done in service of another
crime that was which was proved todaybeyond a reasonable doubt according to the jury.
(10:28):
And afterward, former President Trump cameout and addressed the media, as
he's often known to do, andhe said many of the same things that
he said before. But I wantto discuss one of the things, one
of the recurring themes that he's expressedover the many years. He said that
this trial was rigged, or hesaid, and he said that the judge
(10:52):
was conflicted and corrupted. Well,let me just deal with this idea of
something being rigged. If you knowthey you know that. Donald Trump said
that the twenty sixteen election was riggedbefore the election he won. He said
that the twenty twenty election was riggedbefore the election and he lost, but
(11:16):
the Republicans took control of the House. I'm pretty sure. Don't quote me
on this. I'm pretty sure thatthe Democrats were so good at rigging elections,
and clearly they're not. If theyweren't as inept as I know them
to be, they probably would haverigged it. And I'm saying this tongue
in cheek. They probably would haverigged it so they would have had control
(11:39):
of the House, the Senate,and the Oval Office. Why because they're
all on the same ballot. Theyonly rigged one race on the same ballot,
So that defies credulity, as theysay that strains credulity. It's a
little hard to understand that. Butif the process is rigged, why would
(12:01):
he be running again? Now?He will say that he's running because he
wants to save America. He wantsto save the Constitution. And he's doing
it like they're coming after me becausethey're trying to get to you. That's
what he often says. But I'mtrying to figure out what he's trying to
do for America. I'm trying tofigure out, as a voter, what
(12:22):
he hopes to do, other than, i'll say, adjudicate his grievances,
the issues that he's mad about,or the people that he wants to get
back at. But this idea ofrigged, if this system is rigged,
it's not rigged very well because theDemocrats should do far better than they do.
(12:46):
Don't you think that if the Democratscould rig the presidential election. They
could rig the House election. Don'tyou think if they could rig the presidential
election, they would have rigged theHouse and the Senate, so Joe Biden
could have gotten everything done that hewanted to get done, and they wouldn't
have to have any say so fromthe Republicans. Don't you think that.
I mean, if I'm going torig an election, that's the first thing
(13:07):
I'm going to do. I'm goingto make sure that I rigg the election
so I can get everything I want, not just something that I want,
not just a divided government where JoeBiden can't get much of anything passed,
and he has a divided government whereyou have Speaker Mike Johnson thwarting him at
every turn, which is okay,that's the whole point of these I call
(13:30):
it the three ring circus, whereyou have the different branches, the coequal
branches, so you don't have thepower of just one person to do everything.
But if you don't have any faithin America, if you don't have
any faith in her electoral processes,if you don't have any faith in the
justice system, then what is itwe're talking about? What is it we
(13:50):
have to talk about as Americans.If you actually think that America has fallen
down this hell hole because the guyyou didn't want to win one, or
because Donald Trump was convicted today,then I don't know if you really loved
America. And it may be painfulto hear that, but I think it's
(14:11):
a fair question to ask if yourlove is that fragile, or if you
only view love of country through thelens of things going the way that I
want. The only way that DonaldTrump lost was because it was fixed,
question mark. The only way thathe could have been convicted is because of
some sort of corruption on the partof the judge. And let me talk
(14:35):
about this because I know just alittle something about law. There was an
opportunity for the Trump defense to fileemotion of recusal against this judge. If
they actually thought that he was somehowcorrupt or biased on the take, anything
of that nature, they would havedone so, and could have done so
(15:00):
as a precursor to appeal. Theycould have filed the motion, it would
have been denied, and then theycould have appealed using that. For whatever
reasons they did not. That's whyI talk about we didn't actually hear or
see what was going on in thetrial. Now, I personally I read
the transcripts because I wanted to readas best I could what was actually said.
(15:24):
But for the most part, peopledid not. People relied on what
they heard on their favorite cable newschannel, and then they responded to what
maybe president former President Trump said whenhe was standing outside of court, but
not what actually happened in the trial. And we have this skewed view of
what our American judicial system, howit's supposed to work, because we're looking
(15:48):
at it through the filters of cablenews. Now it actually happened in the
trial. I don't know if peopleeven actually read the indictment. Most people
had talked to have not. Mostpeople I've talked to today have not read
any of the court transcripts. Butthey are really, really sure of what
(16:08):
they feel about the justice system.It's interesting that everyone who believes the system
is rigged has taken no umbrage withhow the current Supreme Court came to be
when all of those elections were goingout. It was not rigged. When
(16:32):
Trump's justices were selected, the samejustices who everyone believed at one point in
time, we're going to get himoff. Scott free. These are the
rumors, these were the conspiracy theoriesand all of that. Everything can't be
someone else's faulty. It can't bealways someone else. That's what I always
(16:53):
tell, even my own children whenthey come to me and they say,
it's not my fault, it wasbecause of this. Because of that,
I'm like, if you're the onlyone at the center of this and everything
points to you, it can't beeveryone else. And that is how I
look at this situation right now.Well, you mentioned the justices, and
(17:15):
there wouldn't be three appointees of DonaldTrump unless he won the twenty sixteen rigged
air quotes election. There wouldn't havebeen actually one of them unless Mitch McConnell
did not step in and block thenomination process of Merrick Galler Garland. That's
(17:36):
just basic history. If you wantto talk about rigged and how the government
is supposed to work, you know, and maybe people don't really know civics,
Maybe they don't know how the countryis supposed to work. Maybe they
don't know the coequal branches and howthey function together. And we are so
(17:56):
partisan now where we believe that anythingwhen I say is the collective, we
that anything doesn't go our preferred way, that it must be somehow rigged against
us or somehow corrupt, or theother side scheming and making it so there's
I would I will listen to theconversation of Trump not being guilty on the
(18:18):
merits if you want to discuss thecase and say because of this witness or
that we can we can have thatdiscussion. But to dismiss out of hand,
well that judge was appointed by aDemocrat, so therefore he's corrupt.
And I said, wait a minute, well, well, are we only
going to have politicians are elected officialsinvestigated by people of the same party.
(18:45):
Is that where we're at now?Are we saying that when Bob Menendez is
on trial, it's rigged unless hehas a democratic judge. Are we going
to say now that Congressman Queller,when he's on trial, that's it's it's
rigged unless there's a democratic judge.Is that what we're saying? Is that
what we're doing here? It's Laterwith mo Kelly caf I AM six forty.
(19:07):
We're live everywhere on the iHeartRadio app. You're listening to Later with Moe
Kelly on demand from KFI AM sixforty last second, as we continue our
discussion of the Trump verdict today,what it means, legally, politically,
socially, America is going through somestuff. It's an uncomfortable time in America.
It's not the first time, it'snot the last time, but it's
definitely a different time. And Iwas dealing with this idea of everything being
(19:32):
rigged, or so former President Trumpwas said. He said today after the
verdict that the trial was rigged.It's a disgrace for all America. It's
a common refrain that I hear frompeople and I and I'm asking the question.
It's almost rhetorical. It's almost rhetorical. Is the assumption that Republicans can
(19:52):
only be investigated by Republicans? Isthe expectation that that can only be Republican
appointed judges who can preside over caseswhich the defendant is a Republican. If
so, that has to work bothways, And if so, then people
(20:14):
who are not Republicans should not takeanything that the Supreme Court says with any
type of seriousness. If we're goingto look at everything through the lens of
political partisanship, are we saying thatonly Republicans are above political ideology influencing their
behavior. Is that what we're saying, Because if that's what we're saying,
I can't have a serious conversation withyou. I can't. And I'm not
(20:37):
even going to get into all thestuff about Samuel Alito and Clarence Thomas.
I'm just saying, as a ruleof principle, if you think or thought
that Judge Marshawn was somehow corrupt orconflicted, the time for that to have
been addressed would have been in thetrial, and the Trump's defense team would
(20:57):
have filed a motion for arsusal alongthose lines, and then if we're then
subsequently turned down denied, then theycould use that on appeal. They did
not do that because why it wasnot an issue, was not something that
it could support in a court oflaw. So are we going to talk
(21:17):
about the actual case or we're justgoing to talk about our feelings in a
nebulous, amorphous way about well,I just don't like the verdict. Okay,
if you don't like the verdict,got it. I feel the same
way about a lot of verdicts.But if we're actually talking about the specifics
of the case, what was done, why it was done, assessing the
(21:41):
evidence which was only before the jury, not what you heard, not what
you read, not what you weretold through analysis on cable news. That's
a very different conversation, very different, and I'm willing to have that conversation
with you. But you're of theopinion that, well, it's all rigged,
(22:02):
Then why is Donald Trump running forpresident? If it's rigged? Either
he believes it or he doesn't believeit. If he does believe it,
well it doesn't matter. And theevil Democrats are masterminds and they are the
puppeteer puppet masters of the world,except they can't figure out how to win
a congressional election on the same ballotnames on the same ballot. They can
(22:22):
fix President, but they can't fixCongress, the House. They can't do
all three branches. You know,I'm supposed to believe the Justice Department when
they indict Bob Menendez, but I'mnot supposed to believe the Justice system when
they indict in Donald Trump in Januarysixth. I can't mentally reconcile the two.
(22:45):
It's the same Justice Department and Twayla. You're asking me off air about
how I think this case will impactthese other cases against Donald Trump. It's
a great question. I think forthe most part, not at all.
Here's what the Manhattan case is.A state level case. It's not a
federal case. It's not anything whichis directly connected to the January sixth case
(23:08):
and the mar Lago Classified Documents case. Also, both of the federal cases
have been delayed for varying reasons whereit's not going to be heard anytime soon.
It probably not until well into twentytwenty five. Who knows what America
will look like then we won't evenknow that We'll have a presidential election Between
(23:33):
now and then, there's no telling. I try to tell people with politics
all the time, everything changes justabout every week in the months leading up
to an election. How people feelabout this moment will be very different.
Two weeks from now, something mayhappen. Someone may have a medical emergency.
There may be not only an Octobersurprise, but there may be a
(23:53):
June, July, and August surprise. Things will come out, There may
be a video here and an audiotape. Look, Joe Biden could go
up the steps of Air Force onetrip and fall all the way down the
steps backward. And that could ifnot in his life that could incapacitate him
as far as becoming president. Samewith Donald Trump at a rally. There
(24:17):
are so many unknowns and variables.Who knows what's going to happen. But
to answer questions specifically with the cases, it's too early to tell. And
for example, how about this now, it came back to me. If
Judge Marshawn were conflicted or corrupt becausehe was appointed by a Democrat, then
what am I supposed to think aboutAileen Cannon who was appointed by Donald Trump.
(24:42):
We can play this game anyhow anyway you want. I mean,
is it only okay or is someoneonly above reproach or speculation when we like
the person, is that what we'redoing here? I don't do that.
I don't do that. I lookBob Menendez and I think, hmm,
(25:02):
that God looks guilty, period.Congressman quelor m looks s guilty to me.
And we can run the list ofother elected officials and politicians who've gotten
in trouble over the years, andwe look at the specifics of the case.
But if we're going to default andassume that the person presiding over the
case, be it Judge Tanya Chuckkinor Judge Murshan or Alien Cannon, then
(25:30):
we just lost our way and therewill never be any belief or faith in
this justice system. If today it'sthe only time that you disagreed with the
verdict, or you think today isbeyond the pale and America's justice system has
fallen apart, then you haven't reallybeen sincerely invested in the process. You
(25:56):
just haven't. You can't think thatthe justice system has somehow run astray today
today, today, Okay. Youknow my frustration is people generally want to
have it both ways. They wantto say that Judge Murshawn is conflicted and
corrupted and act like Samuel Alito withthose flags, no big deal, or
(26:21):
Clarence Thomas with all the trips andeverything. Oh, that's no big deal.
You can't have it both ways.If you think, well, Marshawn
who was appointed by a Democrat,Judge Aileen Cannon was appointed directly by Donald
Trump, or you could say,if it should get to the Supreme Court,
(26:41):
or there's a case before the SupremeCourt regarding presidential immunity, how can
you do that when those Supreme Courtjustices, some of them were appointed by
Donald Trump. You know what Imean, you can't have it both ways.
If you think that their political ideologytrump's either their legal acumen or their
(27:02):
impartiality, then it has to beconsistent in the application. That's all I'm
asking for, all I've ever askedfor is consistency. And if you believe
that Democrats cannot adjudicate Republicans, thenyou also have to be of the opinion
that Republicans can judicate democrats. Otherwiseyou're full of it. You're listening to
(27:22):
later with Moe Kelly on Demand fromKFI AM six forty, and I know
there are people who are listening rightnow. Maybe you want of them who
do not agree with me, vehementlydisagree with everything that I said, And
that's okay. That is okay.Won't be the first time, and it
definitely will not be the last time. But I try to be even handed
(27:45):
as far as how I approach thesesubjects. I try to be consistent as
far as my expectations of whether somethingis fair or unfair, because at the
end of the end of the day, I'm looking for consistency. Fairness is
(28:06):
a result of consistency. I can'ttake people seriously who only apply a standard
to one group of people or inone direction, and regardless of whatever you
believe, you believe what you believe, and I know you believe it strongly,
But if you don't believe it consistently, then I don't think we can
(28:30):
have a legitimate conversation. And I'mlooking for a legitimate conversation. I think
that there is value in discussing thecase of former President Trumpet and what happened
and why it happened, and maybewhose testimony was credible or less credible.
I think there is value and meritand discussing whether you can actually escalate a
(28:53):
misdemean or two a felony. I'mwilling to listen to all of that,
But at the same time, Idon't want you to sit there and just
disregard the other evidence, which isdocumentary in nature, the checks, what
was signed, signed by whom.It wasn't just Michael Cohen, it was
(29:15):
also Hope Hicks and others who testified. And I say now, and I
say it every time. Read theindictment, read the actual testimony. Don't
tell me what so and so saidon MSNBC, Don't tell me what so
and so alleged on Fox News.Take it from the actual transcript. Tell
(29:38):
me specifically grounds of appeal? Whatwhat is it you will be appealing?
Oh, I don't like the verdict. The verdict was unfair. That's not
grounds for appeal. That just meansyou don't like the verdict, and that
too, is okay, but it'snot grounds for an appeal. Big picture,
it's going to be a bumpy ridebetween now and the presidential inauguration,
(30:04):
whoever that is. It's going tobe bumpy for all different reasons, different
steps along the way. We gota presidential debate coming up, we have
a sentencing hearing. We have allsorts of political surprises, which you're going
to happen because politics are dirty.I don't like people trying to conflate politics
(30:26):
and the justice system, but politicsis definitely dirty. Sometimes. I think
if we knew more civics, we'dbe able to make the distinction between both
and know that this was a statecase, not a federal case. And
there's this partition between the president andthe Justice Department. YadA YadA, YadA,
blah blah blah. But we'll dothat some other day. I love
(30:48):
America, and I don't have toapologize to anyone anyone as to why or
how I love America in spite ofwhat I think are as shortcomings. I
love America in spite of what Iknow to be. It's complicated and oftentimes
(31:10):
troubling past when it comes to thejustice system. But I love America despite
whatever may happen, whether I likewhat it does, whether I like who's
elected or not, because loving Americato me, and this is just me.
Maybe you can turn your love onand off. Maybe your love is
(31:33):
predicated on whether things go your way, but it's not with me. It's
not with me. There have beenpresidents that I voted for who won,
and there have been presidents I've votedfor, excuse me, presidential candidates I've
voted for who have lost. Andyou know what, the world just keeps
on spinning. And if we alreadyhave a longer conversation, I will tell
you all the reasons why who getselected president has less real impact on your
(31:56):
day to day lives than your mayor, or your city council person, or
your LA county supervisor, or yourgovernor. With the exception of obviously the
Supreme Court justices. If there areany appointees, those individuals can impact your
life for a generation. But that'sa different discussion. I love America and
(32:19):
it has nothing to do with today'sverdict. It has nothing to do with
what will transpire in the classified documentscase. It will have nothing to do
with whatever does happen in the Georgiacase, if that ever actually goes to
trial, the Georgia Rico case.It has everything to do with America and
the totality of what she represents andher place in the world. This is
(32:43):
an uncomfortable time and for many people, today is a day that is making
you very angry. I don't celebrate. I have absolutely no emotional attachment to
this case at all. I'm goingto sleep like a baby, and I
would have slept like a baby ifa former presient and Trump were acquitted on
all counts. It has no impacton my life. Despite what you want
(33:05):
to tell me on social media.This is going to evolve. How it's
going to evolve. We're going toget through this, and no one knows
how it's going to turn out.We didn't know about the verdict today,
and we don't know about any otherverdict in the future. We don't know
about the appeal, and we don'tknow about the election. So for everyone
who wants to say, well,this is going to guarantee that Trump is
going to win, it doesn't workthat way. Or this is going to
(33:29):
guarantee that Joe Biden's going to win, it doesn't work that way. Why
because it isn't rigged. It's laterwith Mo Kelly k IF I am six
forty. We're live everywhere on theiHeartRadio app. More stimulating Tom. There's
no log in require k S.I'm the kost Ehd two Los Angeles,
(33:50):
Orange County, Live everywhere on theradio.
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