Gottlieb - All Ball - guests Nick Wright, Eric Gordon and Chris Broussard

Subscribe here to the All Ball with Doug Gottlieb Podcast https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/all-ball-with-doug-gottlieb/id1358843497?mt=2. All Ball with Doug Gottlieb is part of the Colin Cowherd Podcast Network. All Ball is an unfiltered podcast covering the biggest stories in college basketball and the NBA. Join Doug as he brings his unique perspective as a TV analyst and radio host. In this episode, Doug talks pro basketball with special guests Nick Wright, Eric Gordon and Chris Broussard. Follow Doug on twitter at @GottliebShow and go to theherdnow.com to find the latest content.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:02):
Hey, welcome and do all ball. I'm Doug Gottlieb, your
host with the most and uh so happy to be
with you. Remember to download, to subscribe, and to rate
this podcast as um. What we'll do this time is
talk mostly pro hoops, college hoops. So many guys either

(00:22):
declaring for the draft with an agent, without an agent.
You do have certain players declaring for their schools, as
we saw yesterday with Romeo Lankford just going to Indiana.
Let me just kind of start there before we get
to the pro hoops of the day. Obviously, Romeo Lankford
staying home is big for Archie Miller, and the sense

(00:44):
has always been at IU, if you can build a
fence around the state, you're gonna be able to compete nationally.
And you look at all the players that have even
now playing collegiately or playing in the pros or played
collegiately they're going to the pros that are from the state.
You're like, wow, how did they not go to IU? Now,
Remember it's not like I you under Tom Crean didn't
have talent. They had a plethora of um of talented players.

(01:11):
I don't think he got fired because he wasn't recruiting well,
although not recruiting as well in state sometimes can unseat
you just as much as not recruiting well overall. Is
I think really the problem was he went to four
nc A tournaments when he was there for nine years
or whatever, and that you know, he only got to

(01:32):
the sweet six team never got past it. I think
there was a general sense they're bumping up into the ceiling,
even though they had talented players, and they went out
and got Archie, who had as or greater success at
a place like Dayton, and so the even the layman
can see, well, if you can do that at Dayton,
why can't you do better at IU? And there are
questions about Archie. I guess at I you, I don't

(01:54):
know why. I think Archie's tremendous. He's an indefatigable recruiter.
And he goes and gets his first top hunter get
in the state of Indiana, and now kind of they're
often running this could be the this could be the
guy who who changes them. It really could. My sense
is that you look at the Big ten and you know,

(02:14):
this was supposed to be a year that Michigan State
could win the whole thing. They did not couldn't figure out,
couldn't make shots in Syracuses zone. Michigan obviously overachieved, or
I think overachieved, but now they're losing Wagner to the
NBA Draft. Ohio State overachieved, but you know they're losing
Beta Cats up. I was kind of a mess, but

(02:36):
I think they'll be better next year. But do I
think Iowa was suddenly going to leap frog everybody else
in the league. Probably not. Um you look at some
of the other powers in the league. Illinois down, having
to completely restructure their roster, Minnesota massive injuries, but finally
recruiting well in state, but you know, they haven't been
able to sustain early season success under Richard Patino. Like

(03:00):
I just kind of Wisconsin was down, and we'll see
what happens if they get their full roster back, which
they could have back, could have back. Could Wisconsin get
back to the top of the league. It's kind of
fascinating to see what happens to Indiana because in very
short order they became kind of an afterthought in the league.
But I think Archie, you start getting a recruiting he'll
do fine. I like the Archie High when it was

(03:22):
made and this only some of this is confirmation bias,
But getting Robo Langford confirms to me everything I thought
about Archie Miller. His team will play hard. Um, he's
a little bit more evolved as an offensive coach than
his brother. His teams play hard, you know, and fundamentally
sound like his brother. And then it's just a matter
if can you get good enough players and can you
get the players to stay? So fascinating, it also interests

(03:46):
always interesting to me these top hundred kids, that top fifty,
top kids that side. It's like you're you realize you're
getting them for one year, and so sometimes it's better
to get the top hunter, top hunter fifty kid who's
gonna stay for the two of the three, the full
or maybe even five years. Then it is that one
kid who, but one player can completely change your mimium

(04:06):
momentum and recruiting, especially in a state like Indiana, and
completely change momentum for the fan base. Oh, they're really
doing something. And while there's a lot of pressure on
the kid and the pressure on the program to elevate
the kids so you can go to the NBA Draft,
some of that's a good thing because if the kid
has the talent and really buys in will be fine. Fine.
I don't think you can win with all one and dones.

(04:30):
But I also think it's really hard to win when
you don't have good players. So it's got to be
a mixture of the two. Let's get to the NBA
a couple of spitfire thoughts. Let me start with Lebron James,
who statistically has been unbelievable. I want people to understand
two things. One, some of Lebron's dominance is by design

(04:50):
from the other team. Right, you're going against Lebron, and
I don't know what the best thing Lebron does. I
would say some of it is the fact that when
he's a downhill driver, he's almost unguardable. But a good
portion of what makes Lebron special is that he's an
incredible passer. Right, So when you have this type of
skill as a score and skill as a passer, and

(05:12):
the size and athleticism that Lebron has and the versatility defensively,
pretty great mix. So what you gotta do is you
gotta make I don't honestly somebody play left handed. But
you want to make somebody only do one thing right,
You either only make him a pass or only make
him a score. And I think, what what the Pacers found?
You go back to the Warriors last year. Found what

(05:34):
other teams have found is, you know, if we just
make Lebron score thirty forty fifty a game, he can't
do it. He won't be able to carry the team
in the fourth quarter. It's something that as a human being,
you run out of You run out of gas in
the tank. And remember, though he's not nearly the defender
he gets credit for, especially anymore, He's still will guard

(05:57):
multiple positions and is put in position to have to
make big plays defensively blocking shots. He obviously blocked a
couple of big ones in this series. The point is that,
go and look at the fourth quarter in Game seven,
he only made two buckets. He's took a couple of
jump shots that he wasn't close on. He just looked
exhausted out there. So I'm not saying Lebron stinks. Anybody

(06:20):
who takes that is just silly when they say that.
What I'm saying is that some of the scoring dominance
is by design. You want him to score, you want
to guard him single coverage, and you want to make
him score thirty points, hoping that he just doesn't have
it in the tank in the fourth quarter and that
you're close and your go to score can make shots
whereas Lebron cannot. The other part is there is this

(06:43):
narrative going that this is the worst roster he's played
with since the O eight Finals team, and that's just silly.
And Kevin Love and I don't think Kevin Love is
a superstar, but he's definitely a star caliber player. Kevin
Loves an all star, Kevin Loves probably a Hall of
Fame her. So go back and look at two thousands,
and Kevin Love is in his prime. So you can

(07:06):
go and tell me that Kevin Love isn't good, and
I would tell you that I think Kevin Love is
really good. I think Kevin Love and the rest of
this team is put in a position to which Lebron
can only really play one way. They can't play ball movement,
ball screen, rotate the basketball. They can't play that way
at all. They have to play this way. Throw it
to Lebron has some out the ball screening action to

(07:27):
which he can find shooters when they're open. Otherwise, if
you help, if you double team, he'll pass your guy
otherwise that then you just play him straight up and
hope he misses. The point is that one of the
reasons he's scoring so much is because of the design
of the defense. The other reason is the design of
the offense. And one of the reasons the rest of

(07:48):
the team doesn't score very much and doesn't look as
effective as maybe they would in other NBA systems, some
of is the design of the defense and some of
the design of the offense. I'm fascinating to see what
happens with Toronto. Toronto does not have a quality matchup
to throw at Lebron James. The teams that do are

(08:10):
eventually the Celtics. To the Celtics have you know you
you go to next year, They'll have Jayson Tatum, Jalen Brown,
Gordon Hayward at least those three, maybe a little Al
Horford to throw at him. And um the Golden State Warriors,
who have Kevin Durant, they have Andrea Gudala, they have

(08:35):
Sean Livingston, Um, they have Draymond Green. They have four
guys to which they can throw at him and say, hey,
look we're gonna cut everybody else off and you're gonna
have to make shot and have Clay Thompson as well,
five guys that can legitimately guard Lebron James. You're not
gonna stop him, especially in this day and age in
the NBA, but you're gonna throw them. Look at Toronto
and though they do have arguably the best bench in

(08:57):
the NBA, the fact is they don't have a perfect
o g and a boy is is just a rookie. Like,
he's not gonna shut down Lebron James. You won't get
He'll get in the foul trouble before that happens. He
has the body, but he doesn't have the game yet
on offense to to make Lebron garden. So I still
think the Calves can beat Toronto, but I think Toronto

(09:20):
just and they only have one day off in between
all these games. Toronto can, just like Indiana, can wear
him out by making him score forty a night, and
that's what he's gonna have to do. I'm gonna have
to score for to night. I wouldn't bet against Lebron
because he has a mental game. He has the mental
edge over the over the Raptors. But I do think
there is the possibility that he just runs out of gas.

(09:42):
In Toronto because they have a DeMar Derosen who is
a more refined player, more fine player than a victor
Or Oladipo. I do think there's the possibility that that Toronto.
I didn't think they could win this series going back
two months ago. Now I think they can. I wouldn't
pick them, but I think they can. And then he
got out west are as of recording of this. Steph
Curry is going to play tonight, and I think it's

(10:06):
it's it's very very interesting. Draymond Green wasn't hitting shots
in the regular season, struggled summer early on, was better
in Game one versus the Pelicans, Igua Dollas shot a
much higher number of threes in the postseason, played more
minutes in the postseason. You still have Livingston there, and
you have some other young pieces. I'm a little concerned

(10:28):
about the Warriors bench in the playoffs, in the in
the in the Western Conference Finals against the Rockets, but
I'm I'm less concerned if Steff is truly back, If
Staff is truly back, and you have Staff, have k
D and you have Clay, they just need Draymond to
make shots to spread that floor out. Iguadala has hit
a lot more shots, command a lot more respect those

(10:51):
the two guys, only two guys you can help off.
I'll be fasting to see how staff looks how he plays,
if they give him some kind of piecemeal minutes, or
if they throw him in the they throw him in
the fiery place thirty five tonight. You know that he
was ready to play a long time ago, and they
were just being extra extra extra cautious before they did. So.
That said, it does feel like a collision course with

(11:12):
the Rockets. And I do still like the Warriors over
the Rockets because the Rockets, though they'll win a game
or two because they can just score all that well,
I still think they're so beholding the three point shot
and they're not. Though the stats would tell you they're
a little bit better defensively than they actually are. There's
some flaws there, some holes to what they do defensively.
I would I would still take the Warriors even sight

(11:35):
unseen with with Steph Curry. And then you have the
Oklahoma City Thunder. What do you do? I think you
gotta get rid of Carmelo Anthony, which is easier said
than done. Look, you can tell me what whatever you
want about Philip Jackson how he mismanaged the New York
next You're probably right, But phil Jackson, do you remember
who he liked most in the NBA draft. He's the

(11:58):
rookie who's tearing it up for the Boston Celtics. Like
that's who he actually valued above anybody else in the
NBA draft. And Phil Jackson wanted to try to get
rid of Carmelo Anthony. And you're right if you say, hey,
god leave, you're an idiot. First you right for that,
But second he he's the one who gave Melow a
no trade clause. But I think given no Melo no
trade clause was I mean, giving no trade clause. But

(12:21):
if we ever need a move you, I think we
both agree it's time to move you. But I look
at Oklahoma City and and the reaction Melow had at
the end of the season, which was basically, hey, they
used me wrong, and I have more to offer than
I was given. No, you don't. Carmelo Anthony is just
patently self unaware. Mellow is a hummer too. Remember those

(12:41):
H two's big bulky cool when you kind of they
were kind of cool looking, look like you were, you know,
some like military dude like a tough guy. Yeah, but
the truth is and H two guzzles too much gas,
and H two it doesn't have a third row seats,
and H two isn't as off road capable as some
would lead you to believe. And H twos are really

(13:02):
early early two thousand's sort of vehicles everyone else has.
You either go fuel efficient or you go the remade Escalade,
the remade Lincoln Navigator, the remade Yukon, the remade Suburban
Writer Infinity, Like an H two is kind of somewhere
in the middle, and it uses more gas and has

(13:23):
less room than all of the other SUVs, and it's
just kind of not needed. It's just kind of a
show piece that people have now to look like there's
some kind of tough guy, when really we think they're
caught in the In two thousand three, that's what Carmelo
Anthony is as a player, a right great midrange shooter,
great post up guy, a great ball stopper, can't guard
any position that doesn't work. In two thousand eighteen, you'll

(13:44):
be able to switch out to point cards. You gotta
be all guards, centers, you gotta be able rebound, got
bill shoot threes. All not strengths of who Carmelo Anthony is.
So I would try and find a way to get
rid of Carmelo. The problem is twenty million dollars. You're
probably gonna have to buy him out. You just are.
And then you have Paul George, who I think truth
be Told enjoyed his experience playing in Oklahomare City, and

(14:07):
I think truth be told. He likes Russell Westbrook the player,
and sometimes it's fun to play with him. But eighty
two games for five more years, you know it's a
hundred games a year. Probably pass on that one. The
Thunder could go from three games to one with Kevin Durant,
Hell NBA Finals with Harden Durant, Russell Westbrook, OBAKA two

(14:30):
Russell Westbrook and yet another new roster, and the question becomes,
do they have another coach? If it's me, I double
down on Billy Donovan. He now has the NBA and
the playoff experience that he didn't have previously. He has
sweat equity with Russell Westbrook, and Russell Westbrook is under
contract for the foreseeable future. Double down on him. Give

(14:50):
him a couple more years. Tell Russell Westbrook, you guys,
need to work it out, work together, remake this roster,
and Russell is gonna have to take better shots and
play off the ball some let's the only way you
make it work. I could tell you that Jayson Tatum
is awesome or that Terry Rogier is a surprise. I
would also point this out with the Boston Celtics. Not
enough people give credit to Al Horford, not just his efficiency,

(15:13):
but his ability to guard multiple positions on defense. Yes,
Brad Stevens is amazing, He's a witch. I don't know
how he consistently wins now without his top two players,
but I will tell you that a good portion of
what's allowed the Celtics to be successful it was their
acquisition of Al Horford, to which people thought they massively
overpaid for him. And anybody who watches tape on the

(15:34):
NBA is like, you know what, Al Horford's probably worth
every penny everybody. I don't think the Sixers are dead yet,
but I do think this is big boy basketball and
they're gonna have to learn the importance of defending every possession,
not giving up some many easy open shots. And I
think the Rockets against the Jazz the perfect sign of
what happens college or pro when there's an upset before

(15:57):
a big game or a big series. Had it been
the thought under the Jazz were better than the Thunder.
All they got some calls, especially in that last game
what looked like a foul on three point shop, But
the Jazz were better in that series than the Thunder.
But the Thunder were a tougher matchup, been more likely
to take some games from the Houston Rockets. This is
what happens when there's an upset in earlier series suddenly

(16:19):
becomes a complete mismatch in the second round. Factor in
Ricky Rubio not playing, and unless he plays, they can't
be competitive, and even with him, I don't think they'll
be competitive with the Rockets. Let's let's welcome in a
friend of the program, personal friend Nick Right, the show
which you should watch every morning East coast six thirty

(16:41):
to nine thirty Eastern time, three thirty to six thirty
West Coast time. Of course you can DVR. It also
replays later on the day. The show is called First
Things First. Um. You can also uh download the pod
as well. He's Nick Right. He joins us on the
Doug Gottlieb Show. I forgive me. I didn't hear your
reaction to Baker going number one overall? Was that the

(17:02):
right call? I mean, it's it's a gut to her call,
and I would have been able to make. I I
understand if you're going for the guy with the highest
upside of all the quarterbacks, if you're just trying to
get the guy who has the best chance to be
the very best of all the players, I understand it.
I didn't think the Browns had the luxury of making

(17:25):
that call. I thought they had to go with the
safest call, the guy who had the least chance of
flaming out. I think that likely was Sam Donald. I
think Josh Rosen to the guy who's going to end
up being the best player out of all of them.
So I mean, I think I would have gone Donald,
maybe Rosen. I I thought Baker. The only guy that
I know I wouldn't have taken was Josh Allen. I mean,

(17:48):
I understand what the Browns did, but it also does
feel like they had the opportunity to get the very
best quarterback and the very best defensive player, and they
might have ended up with the second or third best
quarter and the second or third best defensive player in
the draft at one and four. Ye yep, because of
the Browns. And look, maybe they're smarter than the rest
of us, right, maybe they know something we do not.

(18:10):
H We will see time will in fact tell all right,
Nick right joins us on the Doug Gotlip Show. I guess, my, my,
my question with Lebron is this, I don't know how
he keeps it up. I'm like, do I think sometimes
guys use press conferences to code messages to the league,
to the officials, to the other team. Sure, but when
he said he was exhausted, I believed him. Um, I

(18:33):
just I don't know how much you can keep up
completely carrying one team through the playoffs. And Nick, as
you know, there's only one day off in between all
these games with the Raptors. What are your thoughts on
whether or not he can continue at this pace. Well,
I mean, they're gonna beat the Raptors and he's going
to continue to be absolutely unbelievable, if not unimpressive to

(18:56):
I don't know, folks such as Doug Gottlieb, who just
has to remind the world. But wait, but wait, a
lot of these records Lebron Is said are because He's
played a lot of basketball. Don't forget that part of it.
But I digress lightly. I don't think he's going to
do what he did in Round one in Round two,
but I don't think he's going to need to. I

(19:16):
think the Raptors are actually, while the Raptors are better
than the Pacers, the Raptors are a much better matchup
for the Calves than the Pacers were. We've seen that
over the last few years, the regular season and the postseason.
I also think Kevin Love doesn't have to be an
All Star in the second round, but he's not going
to play the worst two weeks of basketball of his

(19:38):
career as he just played. He's not gonna shoot thirty three.
And I think you have a pretty good idea who
on the team right now you can play, and you
can't play like Jordan Clarkson does not need to see
the court. Rodney Hood can be given a few chance
or a chance the beginning of the second quarter and

(19:59):
every game him and if he once again looks like
the moment is simply too big for him, then guess what,
he can go to the bench like there's only seven,
maybe eight guys who really feel like you can trust
you'll roll roll with those guys. But I just I
think I don't. I don't see how that. I don't
see how that's sustainable. Like, look, I'm with you, I
I there's no reason for me to buy into Toronto. None. None.

(20:23):
And I like the rosen Um. I just I they
have no one who can match up with Lebron. They
are there, they're they're the way in which they're built
is flawed for this one guy. And if you don't
have anybody and guard the best player in the Eastern
Conference and arguably the best players still in the game,
then you have no you have you don't have. You're
you're starting. You're starting at the game at a substantial

(20:43):
disadvantage Um, as opposed to the Warriors, who they lined
up like their whole roster is comprised of guys who
can at least try and stay in front of Lebron. Right,
there's a difference in roster construction that said, Well, you're
suggesting by going to like seven or eight dudes, I don't,
I don't see. They have older guys as well, and
they need to get something out of rodney Hood. They
need to get something out of Jordan Clarkston because if

(21:05):
nothing else, they're younger, and so they're gonna have to
chew up some minutes kind of like a like an
innings eater, fourth or fifth starter, right, Like, I don't
need you to be my ace, but it needs you
to get some good minutes out of you. Well, listen,
I can't trust Jordan Clarkson. And I want to revisit
something you said there in a second, but I can't listen.
Jordan Clarkson's favorite play all year long has been this

(21:27):
to get the ball in the back court, dribble eleven
times right into a closely guarded, contested seventeen foot fall away.
Like he's unplayable. I he is, a's A. He's shockingly
bad in the worst spots Rodney Hood. You would like
to see something on him, But the reality is this
last year with Utah in eleven games in the postseason

(21:49):
in heavy minutes, thirty six percent from the floor percent
from three this year around those same numbers, the moment's
just been too big for him. Like, so you've out
of find guys the moment's not too big for them.
But you just and I just that you're totally correct
on this. Nobody has an answer for Lebron right, just
like nobody has an answer for Kevin Durant. There's certain

(22:11):
guys nobody has an answered. But the Pacers at least listen.
You throw Sad Young in for ten minutes, you can
throw Boyanovitch at him for ten minutes. It's oddly enough,
Lance can actually a pain in his butt like the
Raptors have not O O G O O G. Maybe
for a little bit. But he's a rookie. He's you

(22:32):
know what's gonna happen. He's gonna get in a foul
trouble to sit down, and then they'll throw somebody else
at him. But I'm still I'm still like, look, I'm
just reasonably concerned because what what what the Pacers tried
to do kind of worked. I mean, like, look, he
was too tired to make any shots. He made the
two lamps in the fourth quarter in Game seven, but
the but the Pacers were so the Pacers so inept offensively,

(22:56):
it didn't matter, right. But this is this is by
the way, and is an argument we got in when
we talked about the finals last year. This is one
of the odd things because folks, when they're trying to
poke holes in what is an impenetrable resume. They squint
hard enough, they make themselves dizzy, and they go with
illogical notes like guess what, Like when you score forty five,

(23:20):
the the official score doesn't care when those points were scored.
Like when you when you score when you average forty
two in victories, nobody cares that you were better in
the first half than the second half because the points
all count the same. And so I have two questions
for you, because that's absolutely by the way, that's absolutely
not true. Okay, that's that's if you simply go by

(23:41):
the numbers, then you're accurate. If you go based upon
anything we've ever judged in sports. It's what you do
in the fourth quarter, what you do. And I would actually,
I actually give Lebron more of a pass than many
others would because the fact in the past, I respect
the fact that do when you got to score thirty
five in the first three quarters, you two would be

(24:02):
the most tiring thing you can you can do in
basketball is try and score every time down the court. Okay.
The second most tiring thing you can do is have
to play defense on multi multiple positions every time down
the court. Those are the two things we asked Lebron
James to do. But but he's but he he didn't
have it in the fourth quarter in several of these games.

(24:23):
He didn't have it in the fourth quarter in the
finals last year when Kevin Durant did. And I think
that's that's the game plan and you have to wear
him down because there isn't anybody else who can step
up and carry them. And it has to be all Lebron. Doug.
You you you've been making the case all year. He's
not the best player in the world anymore, you said
a second ago, you know, maybe arguably the best player

(24:46):
in the world. Like you can fold that hand now, right?
Like are you? We all get things wrong? I said
Calves in five. I had to fold that hand last year.
Like you're off that now? Why why would that be?
Like because you witness is there, Doug, Doug, what even
why would that be because you've been alive the last
two weeks? Does that's why? I don't I don't. I

(25:09):
don't understand. Because Lebron is awesome against the Pacers, okay,
and Kevin Durant is awesome against the Spurs. No, no, no, no,
you can't use the same word there. You can't use
those guys. They you can't. Whatever Lebron was and Kevin
Durant were, they weren't the same thing, right, Like Kevin
Durant around one of Lebron's around one, we're not at

(25:31):
all similar. Like Kevin Durant was really really good the
way superstars are. Lebron did something that only he and
only he in the league right now, and he and
one or two other guys in league history could have
done this past round. So like, don't let's not let's
come on, you be be better and more fair than this.

(25:54):
Don't act like they were the same in round one,
because they weren't. Like, it's a nice play on work.
You're you're right, you're right. Kevin Durante in five of
four of his five games. The Bron won four of
his seven games, Like this is this is this what
you do? This is what you do? You go, you
simply go based upon this, You're like, well, based upon
the stats. That's cool game. They're both the best players
on the floor. And the difference is the difference is

(26:16):
that Kevin Durant one has to come out because he
has a better team, but he also plays more defense,
because whether one he's got more energy or two he's younger.
Like again, like you don't, you don't have to agree.
My My point is simply I also, who's the best
basketball player alive? I would take Kevin Durant. Oh no,
you wouldn't. You just painted yourself into a corner. And

(26:37):
so now you can't say anything else. You can own
this one. Who don't truly believe that? You don't? Why
why do I not believe that if you flip the
two players, I'm just curious, you tell me this, Please
tell me at the beginning of these playoffs Durant and
Lebron flop flip flop teams. Are the Warriors worse? No,

(26:57):
they're probably the same. They're just the same. Are the
Calves better? They're probably the same. Oh they're the same.
Come on, Doug, come on, like and by the way,
if the best you can say is they're the same, yeah,
they're they're They're They're both dominant ball handling superstars. Durant's
a better shooter. Lebron James is a has A. Has

(27:20):
A is physically more dominant. Uh, Durante Durant currently, I
would say better at defending the rim. Whereas you know,
Lebron James a better, a better pure rebounder than than
Kevin Durant is. But I mean, and I would say
Lebron's a better past Lebron is a better passer. I
think Durant say that you would you would give him

(27:41):
that you'd give the most that that's kind of you
a one guy who is right now of above average
passer for the NBA compared to a guy who is
one of the three greatest pastors in the history of
the NBA. I just I guess my thing is, Nick,
I don't understand why every argument has to delve into Lebron.
Lebron James is great. I'm more interested in whether or

(28:04):
not what he's doing is sustainable and will an inferior team,
which all the teams in the Eastern Conference our inferior
to a Lebron James lead team. We were in agree
into that hold on how like this is the Busses
Celtics don't have their three best players. The Philadelphia seventy
sixers have dudes that have never played in the playoff games.

(28:24):
They're playing Toronto. This is the Toronto team that just
had its best season in franchise. History is fully healthy.
One games that this team because this is the Eastern Conference, Like,
where where would Toronto be in the Western Conference? Would
you put him ahead of the Rockets? Hold on? Would
you put him ahead of the Rockets? Would you put
him ahead of the Golden State Warriors? No? Hold on?

(28:48):
Wait a second, Yeah, I like the but what else?
Oh wait? The three seed in the West got swept
and the four seeds in the West goot beat because
outside of the Rockets is more is the West slightly
over any of the ship But they're not the point.
I'm done them versus the cast, Like this is what
we do every year? Oh my gosh, the Calves could
get beat. The Calves could get beat. The Calves could
get beat, and then when Lebron takes him the finals,
Oh it doesn't count because the East was overrated. Like

(29:10):
we we we know how this story gets told, like,
oh wait, the guys, they're vulnerable. Atlanta won sixty games, guys,
this is this is Toronto's year. Guys, look at a
Boston Isaiah Thomas are doing. And then when the Calves
win the conference, it's like, oh, it doesn't count. The
East is not very good. The East was overrated, like,
come on, let's be fair here. But the reason that
I went back to the question of who's better is

(29:34):
because you, for reasons that I can't quite understand, you
do these You put yourself, one of the best basketball
minds I know, through these mental gymnastics to justify something
that I don't think you fully believe, which is why
I made I took the shot early, which about Lebron

(29:55):
playing in all those games, I tweet out just an
objective fact, like, hey, here's where Lebron is now in
the all time Playoff record book. And he, by the way,
for some context of it, that means he has more,
for example, assists than Jason Kidd, rebounds than Larry Bird, points,
and seals than everyone. And you write on Twitter, well, actually,

(30:17):
Larry Bird played in the hundred and sixty four playoff
games and Lebron played in two. Good talk, get Nick right,
which totally misses the point of longevity matters and availability matters,
and you don't get credit for having your career cut
short because you couldn't stay healthy. Well, there's there's a
there's a different part to it. You said they're there,
would you say they're objective stats? It's not objective if

(30:39):
you don't give the context of Hey, they used to
play three game first round series. Hey, they then switched
to then they go three they then they switched it
to five games series. There used to be less playoff games.
In addition, the fact that he didn't take time away,
it is true, like you can't Bird's career. They never
played a three game series ever, Like that's yes, they

(31:02):
did well, it was a three game series. When when
when he when they swept the Chicago Bulls, which again
there's another one, right three excuse me? A five game
series which you could end in three games. So if
you play fewer, if you play, you play fewer games.
Excuse me, I misspoke. Uh, if you play, you play

(31:23):
fewer games, you play fewer games and you play. Yes,
longevity does matter, okay, but that's that's when you become
a stat compiler. Right. If you say that he has
more steals and Pippen, like that sounds really impressive. But
if I told you that Scottie Pippen played two two
playoff games, it's a little bit less impressive. What are
the average per game? So what one of the things
lebron Is has been able to do, which I do

(31:45):
marvel at is stay healthy. The problem with staying healthy
and being in the league for fifteen years and playing
on Olympic teams, with the exception of the last one.
He didn't but is you're playing a ton of games.
And we go back to by very first question, which is, Dude,
at some point, he's gonna he's gonna run out of gas. No,
I think it's against the Sixers. I do, and I

(32:07):
don't think, and I I don't know. I don't think either,
I don't. I started the show saying I don't think
the Sixers have the culture to really be here. I
think that's what one last night for the Boston Celtics.
It may well win them the series. I don't think
any of these teams are particularly good in the East,
based upon how they're comprised. But I do think that
I I think that Lebron healthy, and I also think

(32:30):
that people are diminishing the Calves. You're right, Kevin Love
is better than how he played last series. Kevin Love
is probably a Hall of Fame player at the end
of the day, and he's in his prime. Like they
have pretty good players round. It's not as bad as
the O a team. The eight team was miraculous to
get them to the finals. Yeah, so so I I
look at it and I'm like, look, I think they're

(32:51):
still better than all of these teams. But I think
that all of these teams are going to make him
score forty a night, and he's gonna do it, but
he's gonna eventually run in a game. Ask because that's
what happens when you're a human being. Just just real quick,
because this is something people have been doing throughout this postseason,
and I would I'm trying to get as many people
on the record as possible right now, if you had

(33:13):
to pick one team, you only get one one team
to come out of the East, I will pick Cleveland
right now. The one team you would pick to come
out of the East is who Cleveland. It's just like
Kansas in the Big Twelve or or well, I'm so confused.
You just said you thought they would get beat by Philly,
But you're picking the Cleveland your team, Yes, because I

(33:35):
think Cleveland is I think Cleveland is knows how to
win a game. Seven knows how to win important games
when the seven sixers don't. Again, my maybe it's my
fear is that Lebron. You can only go back to
the well so many times to find this amount of energy.
And I just I fear that he loses to an
inferior team. But if you make me pick, I want
to put my salary on one team. I'm taking Lebron

(33:57):
and the Cavs. Okay, the only way Here's Here's one
of the things is you always you act like I
think Lebron stinks or that I think. I don't. I
just I don't think he's Jordan's. I think he's the
closest thing to Jordan we've seen. You don't even think
he's Bird. No, no, no, I think Bird gets diminished
because of the back and because of the era in

(34:20):
which he played, in which Jordan usurped them and Magic
kind of usurped him because Magic was probably surrounded by
better town and didn't break down as early even though
magic career was ended. Those three are the three of
the Mount Rushmore, and you put Lebron up there with
him in modern basketball in my opinion. But here's the thing, man,
You can you you you you can say, oh, you

(34:40):
act like I ate Lebron. I don't. I don't eat Lebron.
I don't act like you ate Lebron, I I act
like and I am accurate in you drastically, and I
think intentionally under rate him like you can we You
and I can go to Capital Grill and have a
two and a half hour, five dollar dinner, and if

(35:00):
we walk out of it and I'm like, hey, how
was it, man, You're like, you know, pretty good, it's
pretty good. Like you, you can appreciate it and enjoy
it while wildly underrating it. When you when when when
you like constantly try to try to make the let
me try to find the exact words here, when you
constantly try to explain how, oh, actually well, actually having

(35:25):
more steals than anyone in the history of the NBA playoffs,
here's why that's not as impressive as you think. You're
really bothered by You're really bothered by that. No, I
just think it's intellectually dishonest. I think it's he's actually
dishonest to to to list out stats that saying he's
a better read that that makes people and not you,
but that makes people really go, he's a better better
than the bird, better defensive than pipping, he's better than

(35:47):
you know, he's he's better score than anybody's been in
the history of the NBA. It's like, yeah, well he's
played more games. That's the that's the Derek Jeter. Like
look at what like Derek Jeter has more opportunities and plays?
Where are you doing again? Like the Derek Jeter? Like okay, man,
Like it's fine, and you're still you're still as we
sit here on May one, two thousand and eighteen, making

(36:07):
the argument that someone right now, forget this historic context
of it, that Kevin Durant is better than him. You're
the only person You're one of two people I know
that publicly make that argument. I'm shocked you want to
do it, Like it's it's baffling to me, but more
power to you. Like you're you're you're going with the
guy as the best player in the world, who is

(36:30):
not we are not at all certain is the best
player on his own team. Like that's fine, who's not
certain he's best? He's he he might get he'll probably
get second in Defensive Player of the year. No, no,
what huh Durant, because Gobert will be first and then
beat will be second. And I don't think play I

(36:51):
would say he's I would guess he'll be second defensive
Player of the year, even if you say he's third.
Kevin Durant has taken a massively in his and how
he's valued at the defensive end. He was the better
player for the first two months of the year. I
think that that narrative got set for a bit and
then it fell off slightly. And I think he would

(37:13):
tell you the same and by the way I would,
I would wager any amount of money you would like
that he finishes outside of the top two, and I
would wager a significant amount of money he finishes outside
of the top three in defensive Player of the Year.
But that's not to But that's now I guess I'm
parsing somewhat. He was very, very good defensively this year.

(37:34):
He was worth at everything on offense than Lebron. Everything
you go by, okay, like you live your world based
pun stats and on stats, you think that he's Lebron
is a better shooter than Kevin Durant. Nobody, nobody on
Earth thinks that he that. I don't think Lebron is
a better shooter than Kevin Durant. I just don't. This
is something that that you do that I don't I

(37:56):
don't break down who's like if if I'm asked who's
the best shooter in the world, then I'll answer that question.
I care about scoring. I care about scoring, so I
care about scoring, and I care about efficiency, like I
do not care if you were to say that, like
when we when we evaluate golfers, right, if someone were
to ask you specifically, who's the best long putter, Like

(38:19):
then not the guy with the longest putter, but who
can make the longest put then I'll answer that question.
But if you want to ask me who's the best
at getting the ball in the cup, I don't care
if one guy has a bunch of tapens because his
iron play is so good. Like I don't penalize Lebron
because he can get the ball to the rim. And
by the way, as as a three point shooter this year,

(38:40):
he's one of the best he's been. Now and I
said everything offensively, let me let me rephrase that. Kevin
Durant is obviously clearly a better free throw shooter than
Lebron James, and he is a better shooter than Lebron James,
but he's not a better scorer than Lebron. That that's
what I would, I would, I would disagree with you. Now.
I think part of that is the construction of the
team then which he's in and and look, will agreed

(39:02):
to disagree on on that note, Look, I gotta run.
We will continue this at some point. It won't be
assembly Lebron based discussion. He still didn't tell like, so
you think he he will hold up despite this load
that he's carrying. I think they'll be the Raptors in
five or fewer games, and sixers, sixers, Celticus. Listen, They're
gonna go to the NBA finals. They're gonna go to

(39:24):
the NBA Finals. I think that. I think that they
are drawing, nearly drawing dead against Golden State. I think,
oddly enough, if it's Houston, they there are some interesting
things they can do against Houston, but they will be
an enormous underdog against Golden State or Houston in the final.
Are good stuff? Thanks Nick. Karic Gordon joins us on

(39:46):
the Doug GOTTLB Show on Fox Sports Radio, Erica. How
are you? Oh, everything's good? Are you going? I'm really
really well? Hey, I want to ask you quickly, this
is and I'm sure you weren't prepared for this I'll
give you a second, because I remember when you committed,
uh to playing in college. I remember how big a
thing it was. Did you did you see? Uh? Do

(40:08):
you see what happened with Romeo Langford committing to Indiana yesterday?
How it's kind of a circus and a show. You
remember back when you originally committed because you were you
were going to Illinois and then you change your mind
and went to Indiana, right, Yeah, yeah, yeah, Mons, Yeah,
my situation was a little different. But yeah, I did
hear the dudes a rome you know, and uh, we're
definitely excited to see him. Uh they go there. Yeah, No,

(40:30):
it's gonna be interesting to see. It seems like a
change in Indiana basketball, trying to get it back to
getting those in state guys. Uh, you know that that's
that's the big thing. Right. If I you can build
a fence and keep everybody in state at home, you
got a chance to beat anybody, isn't it. Oh, no question,
there'll be you know, a championship taliber team. The talent
is state just to go to you. And uh, you know,

(40:51):
I only see some many kids from the Indianna leave
and they are very successful elsewhere. So Uh, for sure,
they gotta keep you guys in state. When when you
guys acquired Chris Paul, what did you what did you
what did you honestly think when you guys moved to
go get Chris Paul? Well, really it was really based

(41:12):
off our office. When Chris Paul came, I knew it
it was gonna work because he's a playmaker. You know,
It's not like you're just bringing in a guy who's
just who's just another score. He's he's a pointmaker's uh
you know, he's he's naturally a past first point guard
and he comes here and uh plays a little bit
more you know, shooting guard. But it involves his game

(41:34):
because now he's a morthan just a passer. Yeah, but
he's also a guy that can dominate the ball, right,
Mike D'Antonio, you're the ball mover, a ball stopper, and
you know everything you guys have done in the past
has been off of James Harden. Was there any thought
in your mind, like, man, I don't know if this
is gonna work two guys that like the ball in
their hands in our offense. No, not necessarily, because the

(41:55):
Antoni system is you have to you have to make
plays a little quicker than normal because we have we
played to happen for floorsal space. So if you just
don't make, if you don't make the quick opportunity happened,
and uh, then h are you gonna do is just
hurt yourself and hurt the team. So it's I think
it's naturally fitted for for them to really make good
playmaking skills really quickly. Uh. There's been a lot of

(42:18):
talk about your team's defense. Obviously numbers are are are
pretty good. Um, how how has this team evolved defensively
from when you first got there to now the unit
that we've seen so far in the playoffs. Uh, I
like our defense. I think our defen has been really
feeling the offense. I really feel like we have any

(42:39):
really hit all cylinders on office, uh throughout this playoffs
like we did during the season. And uh, but you know,
we switch a lot. Everybody's seen. We take away a
lot of things that other teams do. And uh, I
really have been like, I really like how this has
been this whole this whole playoffs. You mentioned your your
offense hasn't gotten to going. One big reason why you

(43:01):
weren't hitting shots, and you know, I'm like, look, you
shoot you in the regular season only one so far
in the playoffs you couldn't make it, couldn't make a bucket.
What's is there something you're gonna change? I'm you're gonna do?
I mean, what what's going on with your jump shot? Well,
it's not really what's going on with my jump shot?
Is that just uh teams are just trying to take
away a lot you know. Um, the only way I

(43:24):
I'll be able to get that chance again, you half
the bottom my hands willing to be able to create
a little bit more because when when I'm in the game,
these guys are just not leaving me from three points,
so they're just more like denying me and uh and
to you know, uh so I just kind of figure
out ways. But as long as we're winning, that's the
main thing, because you can't let a lot of stuff

(43:46):
get to you. You You you mentioned that they're hugging
up on three point shooters, right, Making you guys try
and take tok too is kind of making James Harden,
you know, trying you know, beat him by himself. It's
a little bit of what the Pacers have tried to
do to Lebron right, which is, you know, take away
those threes, take away all the what you do best,
and make one guy care you so that he gets

(44:08):
tired in the fourth quarters. That a little bit of
the game play. Is there any similarity there between how
they're playing the broad and how people are trying to
guard Harden? Well, every team is different, but in this series,
that's what it seems like. That's what Keith was doing.
You know, they're not letting there trying to not force uh,
letting this play a lot of you know, take a
lot of threes and everything they wanted inside to compare,

(44:30):
so you know, you know he's serious. Is going to
be different for everybody. But as long as we you know,
he continue to win and went out a good you know,
we went at a good uh you know, have a
good lead on teams and I'll take that. I'll take
that chance. And yeah, obviously you guys dominated one. They
didn't have Rubio, they didn't feel like they were really

(44:52):
competitive in that game. You mentioned Golbert um is it?
I think most people talk about how good he is
defending at the rim, but I would say it's also
that for a guy that big and that long. It's
that he can actually cover some out in the perimeter.
What makes him such an effective defender? It's hard. It's
hard for us, Eric to see when we're watching on TV.
Other than in blocking shots at the rim, you're trying

(45:14):
to go at him. He gets the switch on you.
What makes Rudy Gobert such such a great defender? Uh,
he's tough when you're going into the basket because he's
always alternating shots and he also blocked shots too. But
what we want to we want to get him out
there for on the perimeter, so we could, you know,
you know, get it better, get a better shot at
him as far as you know, maybe should take it three,

(45:35):
maybe driving to the basket where someone else could help
him as we're driving to the basket. So we always
want to create a mismatch. Eric Gordon joining us on
the Doug Gotlip Show. How much do you pay attention
to what the Warriors are doing? Not as much? But
you know the Warriors they play the same way all
the time, so you know they don't really see to
do any anything different. I just mean, do you do

(45:56):
you watch too that steps coming back tonight? Do you
watch how they're planning you watch those games or you
two locked in what you're doing. Oh no, I'm saying
of the game. So I'm gonna watch other teams and uh,
but for sure I'm focusing on what we're doing. That's
no question. No, I'm not saying you're not I'm not
saying you're going home and like, I'm not paying any
attention to this. How much I was how much do

(46:16):
game plans vary from game one to get like, because huge,
Utah's got to make some sort of adjustment, right if
their plan was to make hard and beat him, well,
that plan didn't work. He had eight and seven and
he did so pretty efficiently, seven or twelve from three
point range. How much do game plans vary from game
to game in the playoffs? Yeah, based on what they

(46:37):
what we see them doing the first quarter. You know,
it's it's either you know, our point guards or our
playmakers are are either going to score a lot of
points and create a lot of assists or or or
we're gonna get a lot of threes of where they're
gonna be helping a lot. So it's uh, but every
game that we played them so far against against Utah,
they've always try to take away our three. You know

(47:00):
they're pretty I'm pretty sure they might stick to what
they're doing. Yeah, so do you take a step back
even further to space it out even you know, even
more so, like if they're gonna hug up on you,
don't you just continue to to space and almost get
higher out on the floor and it becomes even more
open inside the lane. Well sometimes, well some Yeah we're
gonna keep the sports floor space, that's no question. But
you know it doesn't even if I take a step

(47:23):
back there, they're still gonna stay with stick with me.
So they're just creating one on one situations where go
there at the rim where our guards are going down.
Here Eric Gordon joining us in the doug outlip show.
And it fascinating how much basketball has changed since like
you were coming up right, remember, like you're coming out
of high school Indianapolis, and even back then, people like, man,
you gotta go on one on one mid range game,

(47:44):
mid range game, right, you have to move without the basketball. Yeah,
you guys do move without the basketball, but a lot
of it's just patient space, you know, find your spots,
you know, relocate based upon penetration, and everything is at
the rim like it's it's kind of crazy that when
you were a kid, I'm sure people don't get outside
the three point line, get in there and show a
mid range pull up. And now that's considered the worst

(48:05):
shot in basketball. Yeah, for sure, because everybody's getting taller
and longer. So that two point shot is uh, it's
it's easier. It's an easier contested shot. Now it seems
like so the best way to go is uh, you know,
be able to knock down threes and be able to
take it to the basket. And and as you can see,
everybody's gonna have to have the complete package. Uh here

(48:27):
here soon where I mean one through five Because this
you're in the sea centers that are tall and lanky
and that are that will bring the ball maybe down
the floor. You know, guys like Jonice or Durant. You're
gonna just see a whole bunch more guys best size
handling the ball and even garden guards sometimes. So it's
you gotta have a complete package. Now, who's a tougher cover,

(48:49):
Lebron or Kevin Durant for you personally? M both of
them are different, but um how so because Durant, because
Durant is tall and he can shoot too, so I
it's it's tough. And Lebron is stronger, he's gonna use
his power and he has size on a lot of

(49:11):
people too. So I don't know, it's tough, but if you,
if I had it, Durant is very tough. Yeah, he's
got he's got. He's got a greater kind of arsenal
of of scoring scoring options whereas Lebron. Lebron can score,
but also he's a little bit more of a passer, right,
I mean, and and Lebron also settled. Sometimes I'll just

(49:31):
get tired and settled for a jump shot, which you
kind of feel like you won. He would have goes
in you feel like you kind of won, as opposed
to when Durant shoots, you feel like you didn't win.
And sometimes you could be there with Durant, he just
jumps up and shoots over you because he's so tall
exactly now that's he's almost he's like seven feet tall,
and he just shoots at will. So it's tough. Eric
Gordon joining us, do you guys want to be you

(49:52):
want to be considered the favorite or the underdog in
the series against the Warriors? Well, U I don't. I
don't see really see how we can be the favorites
because you know the Warriors, they have been to the
finals more times in a row. And uh, but I
would like to, you know, have our chance out of
the next series. If it's you know, we could just

(50:15):
continue to play, well, I would love it. And uh,
you know, I mean there's just no way that you
can have us as the favorites. But um, we'll see
what happens. Uh. You tall the toughest place to play
in the league, It's one of them. That's I definitely
would say that's always been one of the toughest places.
All watch out for guys with their cell phones trying

(50:36):
to capture all the different images and shove them in
your face. We know, we know Russ is not a fan,
not a fan at all. That j Thanks so much
for joining us. We appreciate to be our guest. Best
of luck inst the Jazz. Thanks appreciate it all right,
Eric Gordon joining us in the Doug Gotlin Show. Let's

(50:56):
talk some NBA who Chris Brossarry joined us. He's the
NBA and out of a Fox Sports one. You can
hear on Fox Sports trading the Weekends is a great
show six to nine pm Eastern Time with Rob Parker. Chris.
Here's what I said about the Celtics and the seventies sixers,
and and you can feel free, as you always are,
free to disagree with me if you if you'd like um.

(51:17):
They both have reloaded, rebuilt, remade themselves, but in different ways.
Much like one has um has redone a house, the
other one straped it and started all over. And what
happens when you rebuild a house is you still have
the character of the house. And I bring that up
because what the Celtics did was they tried to establish

(51:37):
a winning culture first and then slowly acquired players through
the draft and then eventually via free agency in trades
uh to have you know, NBA All Star level talent.
Whereas the seventies sixers they were they were trying to
lose games, so you couldn't really establish any sort of culture.
And they got the players first, and now we're trying

(51:58):
to establish could sure on the fly. And that's why
this though the Celtics don't currently have their top three players,
they're still probably a better team because they have a
better culture that's ingrained in them over several years. Fair. Wow,
you said a lot, But yeah, I think a lot
of it makes sense. That's why, you know, when you

(52:18):
talk to executives around the league about tanking, what the
word that you hear is just what you use culture,
And a lot of teams just don't want to bring
that quote unquote culture into their building. They don't want
a losing culture where we everybody knows we're trying to lose,

(52:38):
and to be honest, players don't even want to. Like
when Philly was doing that, three agents didn't want to
go there. You know Jelil Okaford. Now granted he didn't
turn out to be a very good player, but he
didn't want to be drafted by the six is because
of that losing culture. So what you say is definitely
correct on on many levels. I still think Philadelphia can

(53:01):
get out of it. Um. I think the players that
they have not granted and bid was there for it.
Um Simmons really wasn't. Uh, Dario Sary was there for
some of it, but he was. You know, both of
those guys MBTN sarg or NBA was hurt Um, you know,
Bell and Nellie Ilya, Sulva Reddick, they weren't there for it.

(53:22):
Brett Brown was, but I think he's proven to be
a good, solid coach. I don't think this is gonna
hold them back. I just think Boston has Brad Stevens
is phenomenal, and look, I think they'd be certainly better
with Kyrie Irving, no question, but I'm not sure how
much better. Like I think it's almost that like that

(53:44):
guy can just put in whoever he has and they're
incredibly productive. I'm picking Philadelphia to win the series, but
I would not be shocked or surprised in the least
bit if Boston wins it because they just played so hard.
They extra shoot well, they play smart, and they do
have some talented athletes. They don't really have stars um yet,

(54:07):
but they have enough talent to make it work in
a week Eastern conference. Um, okay, help me out here. Uh.
I actually believe Lebron James when he said he was tired,
did you I think he was speaking in the moment
like he was tired that moment, he was tired, you know,
he wanted to go home and get some rest. I

(54:28):
don't believe he was saying, uh that he's you know,
he's really not gonna be at his best in this
Raptors series. Look, I think Lebron sometimes does like to
ratchet up the degree of difficulty, you know, and make
it seem like he's going over an even bigger obstacle
than he is. So I expect him to be fine.

(54:49):
I don't really think fatigue has gone really be a
factor in this series. That's interesting because I do um. Look,
I think that there's no good matchup that the Raptors
have to guard him. They just don't, and ultimately that
becomes their undoing. But if you look at the Pacers,
like the game plan is pretty pretty simple. They want
a single cover him, make Lebron's score as much as

(55:11):
he could buy himself, make him really work to get
his own shot, and not let him facilitate, hoping that
in the fourth quarter he'd running the gas. And many
times that worked. They just didn't have enough offense on
their end. Yeah, I mean that's the thing. The Pacers
couldn't produce a lot of offense. Um, they did do
a good job. You know. Stephen Jackson's up here this

(55:32):
week at Fix that We've been on some shows together,
and he he did not like the Pacers strategy. He
thought that they should have doubled Lebron got the ball
out of his hands and made everybody else beat you.
And obviously those guys didn't produce. But I I think
that's easier said than done. I mean, Lebron has always
gotten his throughout his fifteen year career, so he's gonna

(55:56):
put thirty something on you regardless of how you defend him.
But to your point, even if you don't like didn't
like the defensive strategy, that wasn't the problem for the Pacers.
The problem was that they couldn't score. Now, Toronto is
a team that can score, and they are a better
defensive team than Indiana. So on paper, there are a

(56:18):
lot of reasons to like the Raptors, But I just
don't think that their stars are close enough to Lebron
James where they're going to be able to beat him.
I think I think the cas are gonna winning in six.
I think they will have a little less trouble with
the Raptors than they had with the Pacers. Christoper Sarry

(56:40):
joining us in the Doug Gatlip Show Fox Sports Radio.
That's interesting. I think there it's a bad matchup for
the Raptors. I just think ultimately Lebron gets worn down. Um,
so you you you're picking picking the Raptors. No, I
think I think there's a chance he loses maybe to
the Sixers in the next series. Even know, I I

(57:00):
think if if, if, if all things were equal, they
would beat the Sixers more. You know, they beat the
Sixers four times in seven. I just think ultimately he
even though the Sixers aren't as good, um, and they
don't have the experience. Yeah, I like he went seven games,
then you're gonna go You're gonna go six in this thing.
Like the Raptors are gonna beat him once or twice.

(57:22):
And you know, I feel like the Sixers will beat
him a couple of times. And look, if you watch
Games seven, fourth quarter, he didn't have much use in
the tank. No. Look, you make a good point, and
they're gonna be times where he has to defend the
best player you know, Um, and that's gonna wear him down.
Not I don't think it'll bite them this series, but

(57:44):
I do agree with you that over the course of
these playoffs it could become a factor. Like maybe it
happens in the conference finals. Um, you know, when he
had to carry this load when it's first in Cleveland.
You know, he was a lot younger and he had
a lot more energy, and for him to do this
at this stage in his career, even though he played

(58:07):
smarter and probably can salvage some energy a lot better
than he used to, Yeah, I could see it taken
a toll. That's why it is imperative that first Kevin Love,
I mean, he's got to step up and play much better. Uh.
And then I know their hope is just that some
of these young kids, and none of them have done it,

(58:27):
Clason could. They have looked far worse in the playoffs
than they did in the regular season, and they're gonna
they're gonna have to have those guys step up and
play better if they want to get to the conference
to the finals. It's interesting because when that trade was
made the first couple of games, everybody said how much
better they are, and was like, look, these guys haven't

(58:48):
played in real basketball games. It's completely differently, completely different,
and something that's been exposed that they haven't played in
real important basketball games, and everything they do gets micromanaged.
The minutes get tighter, and people, have you scouted better?
The game is more physical and and they've been exposed
as being immature in the in the landscape of playoff basketball. Yeah,

(59:09):
that's the thing. I mean, they were fined in the
regular season even though they had their their poor moments
as a team with the new guys. But let's look
at it. Larry Nance Jr. Who he has, He's been
okay for what he does. Clarkson, they're coming off the
bench for a bad Western Conference team. You know, Ridney
Hood there the reason you saw let him go because

(59:31):
he's so up and down, and you know, those are
the guys that we're gonna supposed to ride in with
the Calvary and save the calvs Um. I thought theoretically
it could work because they had a lot more energy
and youth and athleticism, so they were they should have
been able to be better defender. But to your point
is telling. I mean, look at what t Lou went

(59:52):
with in Game seven. He went with the guys that
had been there, even though Jr. Is I mean, he's
the biggest seesaw in the league in terms of consistency.
But that's who Tyler went with and it got it
done for him. Uh. You know, I expected to work
this series as well, but the next one to your
point is where it could haunt him. But look, I

(01:00:14):
think Boston. It could be Boston that they're facing in
the conference finals. Uh, they play Boston, I couldn't. I
mean that would be an all time upset at Boston
beats them with that. Yeah, and that's an interest. That's
a great like. They to me, they just don't have
enough talent without Kyrie Um and maybe even without Hayward too,

(01:00:35):
to beat Lebron because he's not only talented but smart.
Him is an mbad or smart, but maybe not smart
enough at this stage in their career. A couple of
quick ones. Steph is gonna play tonight. They say no
minutes restriction. They're gonna start him. I think they'll start him.
You know, you bring out a player like that, you
usually start him. Um. I think it's good. If the

(01:00:57):
doctors have said that he's just ready in game two,
is he's gonna be from game three? I play him
because you know this. Look, I know he's gonna fit
in swimmingly, uh seamlessly. It's I don't really be a problem,
but there still is an adjustment period. I don't care
who the player is and what the system is, and

(01:01:18):
if I'm going to stay. I don't want to be
adjusted against Houston. I want to get through those adjustments,
that that assimilation again for the next three or four games,
whatever it takes to get rid of New Orleans, and
then we're rolling on all cylinders when we face Houston
in the conference finals. Yep, I tend to agree with
you on that one. Um. Any have you heard anything

(01:01:39):
early on what the what the Thunder are gonna try
and do? Well? I mean, I think George is out
of there. I think if I'm the Thunder, I think
Carmelo Anthony's comments were blessed in this guy. And I
would have met with him last night and been like, look,
we want you to come off the bed and just

(01:02:01):
hope that he says, well, I'm gonna opt out because
I mean, mellow, first ballot Hall of Famer in my opinion,
But at this stage of his career, he's got to
realize what he is and what he is not. And
there's no way he's getting that type of money on
the market open market, um, And there's nowhere he's going

(01:02:21):
to go to play the old role that he used
to play as the old Mellow. So where's he going?
So I don't think he's gonna opt out. I think
he put his foot in his mouth and he's gonna
look bad because he's gonna opt into that deal. And
I will try to get a viout, maybe get that.
But you know, look, okay, see is in a different
place now, and they're not going to win a championship.

(01:02:43):
They're not gonna compete for a championship for the foreseeable future.
They've got one superb player who is a you know,
a great spectacular show, and they're gonna sell out the
arenas because people are gonna want to see him. They
feel he's been loyal to that city and they can
hope to make the playoffs every year. But that's really

(01:03:05):
where they're at now. Like the building around him, I
think there's two ways to build around western. One you
just get a super duper star like Kevin Durant and
maybe you've got enough talent to win a championship. They
came close even though they didn't do it. Or you
built around him like Alan Iverson, like they didn't Philly

(01:03:25):
with the grinders, three in d guys for today's game.
But you need a superior coach to do that. Uh,
And I don't know that that could win in today's
NBA anyway, but I don't think Billy Donovan is the
coach for that. And you know that's a lot of rebuilding,
So I think that's I think they'll go that ladder route.
Um when when George leaves and if Mellow is bought

(01:03:49):
out or whatever, Uh, they'll put grinders and three in
D guys around him. But unless they get rid of Donovan,
I don't think Donald will be to maximize that type
of thing. The only only thing to do is to
be the double down on Donovan and let him coach
coach because I feel like he's not coaching Westbrook. Whether
it's out of fear or whatever, but like you know,
you feel like if there see I agree with you.

(01:04:11):
Not now Scotty Brooke didn't either. Um, I don't know
who will. I don't think. I don't think it's that
the front office or somebody is saying Donovan kn't like
you don't touch Westbrook. I just don't know that he
has the I don't want to question his heart, but
I just don't think he's gonna say anything to Westbrook.

(01:04:32):
There's a quiet Leonard story out there. ESPN has it.
UM I read into it, and it doesn't feel like
the Spurs have any problem with Kauai. It's more the
people around Kauai. What's it likely he returns to San
Antonio if they offered their their best shot is offering
him that super Max right away, because I'm cold he

(01:04:53):
It's not like he's dying to get out of San Antonio.
Kauai is baffled and bothered by the fact that the
Spurs have, you know, he They're like, we've never seen
them go at a player like this. You know, the
comments about his group. Uh Tony Parker, um, you know

(01:05:13):
if some people think my new um, you know, the
anonymous sources and stories talking about tension, because Kauai's camp
is like, wait a minute, We've been fully transparent with
the Spurs. They knew we were getting the second opinion,
They were on board with it. They knew Kauai was
gonna be in New York working out. They were on
board with it. They sent trainers to New York to

(01:05:36):
work out with them. They were on board with that.
When we're with them, their furring. But when we you know,
then we see these stories or we see these comments,
and we're saying what's going on. There's a bit of
like disingenuous this there that Klaia's camp feel like they
see and there will have to be some smoothing over. Uh,

(01:05:57):
it can be done, but if better be done with
the super Max offer. If it's not done with a
super Max offer, and I think it's gonna be tough
for san Antonio to make it work. But I believe,
and from this from talking to people close to this situation,
that Kaui will give them a chance, um if they
come with the right money and you know, if if

(01:06:19):
they say the right things. But he's a bit bothered
by the way things have happened because he feels like
they've taken shot at him when he's hurt and he
never saw them do that with any other players. Great
tough and Christopher Sorry. Check him out this Sunday sixty
nine Eastern Time with Rob Parker, and of course check
out all his work on Fox Sports One step. Thanks
for joining us man. All right, that's the latest version

(01:06:42):
of All Ball. Don't forget to download, subscribe, and rate
our podcast. I'm dog Gon