Joe Williams of Toto

Joe Williams, lead vocalist with the legendary band Toto, visited with Mark Manuel. What's the story behind him taking over as lead singer in the 80s? What's the story behind "Pamela?" Why aren't they in the Rock N Roll Hall Of Fame? What was it like when his dad, John Williams, was writing the iconic theme song from "Star Wars?"

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, So we got Joe Williams on the line from Toto.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Welcome, well, thank you, it's great.

Speaker 1 (00:05):
I am so excited that you guys are coming back.
Here is here two years ago. I didn't realize your
opening for Journey. I didn't realize that our vibrant arena
all twelve thousand seats to be sold out. I got
to the arena half an hour early. I couldn't fight
a parking space, Joe, so I had to park a
mile down the road and walk. I missed. I miss

(00:27):
hold the line in one other song. So I came
in like on your third song, like, you got to
be kidding me. So I'll be to hear that. I know.
I'll be planning ahead much much better for this show.
February nineteenth at the Capitol Theater. So you got your
start with Toto back when I was a senior in
high school nineteen eighty six. You were with him for
two years, left and came back. What was the process

(00:49):
of becoming the lead singer in Toto?

Speaker 2 (00:52):
Well, geez, you know, I was a friend of theirs
here from the valley, you know, Luke. I think since
I was fourteen years old and David Page's family, and
my mind go back to before I was even born.
I think his dad and my father worked together, so

(01:13):
so they sort of just you know, put a call
out there going, you know, asking, hey, you want to
you know, come come to the rehearsal place and just
like you know, sing a couple of tunes. That's kind
of what it was. And I just went over there
and hung out, and you know, sang a few tunes
that were all set up, and you know, about a

(01:34):
week later, Jeff Picarl called me up and said, hey,
you're in if you want it.

Speaker 1 (01:40):
So obviously by that point, Toto already had Toto four,
I believe, with Africa and Rosanna. Did you tell them
can we lower it down a couple of pitches? Because
those are some high notes for a dude?

Speaker 2 (01:53):
Yeah? Not back then. No, back then I was. I was,
I was singing in the original keys, right. My range
has lowered a little bit as I've aged, but then
I could I could do the original.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
Yeah. I think I saw something where you asked, Bobby
is Bobby Kimball? How come you had to sing so
damn high on those songs?

Speaker 2 (02:15):
Well, that and also I mean the sheer volume of
his voice. I mean, it was, you know, incredibly loud.
He was, you know, had that sort of operatic power.
So so I had to you know, I had to
work a little bit to you know, get that. So
but yeah, he was terrific.

Speaker 1 (02:35):
So what was it like filling his shoes on two
iconic songs like Africa and Rosanna.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
You know, I didn't try and be him, you know,
to be honest with you, they I just you know,
worked with them and tried to do the best that
I could. Uh. The great part of it was that
I was able to write some songs with David Page
which ended up on that first album and of course
for the Seventh one, the second album I did with them,

(03:03):
So you know, so I was able to to channel
Bobby a little bit live, but then you know, kind
of add my own thing to it in those on
those records, which which had some pretty good success, especially
in Europe.

Speaker 1 (03:18):
Yeah, you mentioned the seventh one. That one came out.
I think I was a junior in college and the
song Pamela got me through a breakup, so thank you.

Speaker 2 (03:28):
Ah well, yeah, it got me through a breakup too
with Pamela exactly.

Speaker 1 (03:35):
So what is the story behind that, The.

Speaker 2 (03:36):
Story behind the song. Well, you know, I had a
year or so, or maybe two years before, before I
even joined the band, had written a song called Pamela
that was a completely different groove. But the chorus of
that song is what ended up being the bridge section

(04:00):
in the middle of the tune and the intro so so.
And the way it happened is I just went over
to David Page's house to do some work and maybe
write some tunes, and he was sitting at the piano
and singing almost completed a chorus for a Pamela, and

(04:21):
that's the chorus that we know from that song. And
I kind of took issue with it because and he
was using the name Pamela. So I said, look, you
gotta finish. I want to finish this one with you.
I mean, I have a song called Pamela I was
actually going to pitch to you guys. So we finished
it together, and then when I showed him what the

(04:43):
chorus was for my original tune, we sort of added
that as a as a bridge section.

Speaker 1 (04:49):
Now, there was another song on that album. There was
a hit everywhere but here.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Right, Yeah, I mean, are you're talking about Pamela.

Speaker 1 (04:57):
No, Pamela was I played it on the radio here.
I remember that one. Well, there was another one off
that album though, that you guys play. It's got a
great hook to.

Speaker 2 (05:05):
It, can't Stop Loving You.

Speaker 1 (05:08):
How was that one never a big hit in the US?

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Well, I think that a lot of it had to
do with a change of regime with it, with the
record company that we were working. You know, the head
guy sort of changed and wasn't I guess wasn't a fan. Uh,
they kind of it sort of halted the momentum up
the charts for Pamela too, because we were in the
you know, maybe crack the top ten, but right, and

(05:34):
it may have had a chance to go a little
bit higher, but they sort of stopped all promotion and
that kind of stuff. So that was that's one reason.
I mean, that's you know who ultimately who knows exactly,
But Stop Loving You came out after was released after Pamela,
and was embraced in Europe and in Japan and you know,

(05:56):
some of the other territories. It was actually a number
one song in several territories in Europe, so so that
was cool.

Speaker 1 (06:04):
Was that song ever used in the movie.

Speaker 2 (06:06):
Stop Loving You? I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (06:08):
Because when I hear that song, I can't say no.
When I hear that right away, I picture like a
Disney movie or a romantic movie of some kind.

Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, I mean that would Wouldn't that be great? I mean,
as you know, they's they're using songs from that era
all the time. Yeah, man, that would be that would
be very cool.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
It just seems like it would fit perfect for me.
By the way, Toto is going to be at the
Capitol Theater February nineteenth, so make sure you get your tickets.
You guys always put on such an amazing show. And
I realized that from the original lineup. And when I
say original, going back to the eighties, there's you and
Steve Lukather everyone else's studio musicians. I've heard people say, well,

(06:52):
that's not really Toto. The truth is Toto came from
studio musicians, right.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Well, yeah exactly. I mean in that sense, we're trying
to keep the keep the keep it alive in this
in the same way that you know, the original band
was it was it was made up of great studio
musicians who worked on other artists music and uh, and
so we try to sort of keep that same thing going,
you know, you know, Unfortunately, several of the guys from

(07:23):
the from the original lineup have passed away. Not much
we can all do about that. And uh, you know,
David Page just can't really tour anymore. It's a little
bit hard on his on his uh, with his health stuff.
And you know, Steve Paccaro was with us for many
years during the teens and just you know, I guess

(07:44):
decided that he had he had kind of had enough
of the touring thing. So there's you know, what are
we to do. We want to still go out there
and and and play this music for people, so we
you know, so we've we've set it up so that
we've got some of the best new traditions that we
can find who want the same category as the original guys,

(08:05):
and and uh and you know, it works. It works
for us, and you know, hopefully it's fun for people
when they come out and see it, to hear those
original tunes done done well.

Speaker 1 (08:15):
You know, one thing I'll say, you know, people when
they think of total to think of Africa, they think
of Rosanna. You guys rock on a lot of songs
that people don't even know. But when you hear, you know,
the riffs and the soloing from Steve Lucas and the
keyboards and everything else. You guys are a pretty hard
driving rock band sometimes.

Speaker 2 (08:35):
Well absolutely, I mean that's that's the other aspect of
the of the concept of the band was that it
was it's it's not just one any one particular style.
It's in many styles, which which I think bugged the
critics back then, back you know, in the day, because
it wasn't you know, one sort of thematic style of music,

(09:00):
you know what I mean, We've there's there's funk, there's
you know, rock, there's jazz and sort of progressive stuff,
and then Africa, which doesn't really you know what category
is that. Even in right it was kind of one
of the first tunes that was world music, I guess
you could call it. So, you know, a lot of
varying styles, and that was just simply because you know,

(09:23):
everybody in the band, the musicians played on so many
records and had you know, talent for all of that
stuff and including writing. I mean, David Page, you know,
is one of the most eclectic writers there there is.

Speaker 1 (09:35):
On that note, by the way, we're talking to Joe Williams,
lead singer of Toto. They're going to be at the
Capitol Theater February nineteenth. A couple of years ago, I
talked to David Page and we were talking about the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. How on earth is
Toto not in the rock and Roll Hall of Fame.

Speaker 2 (09:54):
Well, it's a good question. I think that one of
the reasons from back in the day, as there was
some sort of falling out between Yon Winner and the band.
I'm not exactly sure what it was all about it
before my time, but I think that was that was
one reason why they just it didn't they'd never made

(10:15):
it into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. But
you know whatever, there's still time.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
I just look at the contributions, not just Toto is
a band, but you look at Steve lukather and and
everyone else, all the contributions they made to like the
Thriller album from Michael Jackson or I think it was
Samford Townsend band, wasn't that David Page, Yeah, I think
I just look at all the contributions you guys have
made to other artists. I don't know how in the

(10:41):
world you're not in, but I know it's all political.
It's one of those things.

Speaker 2 (10:45):
It is it's It's definitely one of those things. As
I said there was you know a lot of people
have varying opinions about the band, so you know, it
just sort of is what it is. But you know,
what's important to us now is just, you know, stay
out there and entertain people in a live setting and
play the songs that people love. And you know, Luke

(11:07):
is there, and he's magnificent as he's always been, and
and you know, we're having fun and I think I
think people who are coming out to see us are
enjoying it.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
I'll tell you, I cannot wait to see the show
February nineteenth, Capitol Theater. Joe, your dad is also extremely
famous John Williams, the guy behind the Star Wars theme
and countless other movie themes. You were, what, probably junior
high when that movie came out.

Speaker 2 (11:36):
No, I well, no high.

Speaker 1 (11:38):
School, high school. But I'm thinking to myself being a
high school kid. By the way, my dad wrote this
theme song that now iconic. What was life like for
you then?

Speaker 2 (11:48):
Well, you know, just like any normal kid, I guess.
I mean I said that was just my dad's gig,
and I didn't really know anything different. I mean, I
always was a huge movie fan and always always very
uh uh, you know, proud of what he did, what
he did and what he's he accomplished with a lot
of his music. So I was constantly asking him, you know,

(12:09):
what are you doing next, what's what's gonna? What are
we what? What what are you working on? You know,
and he and my dad with his personality of you know,
being he's a very humble kind of guy. He's like, oh,
it's just a little space thing, you know. He doesn't
you know, he doesn't never gets really overly excited. But

(12:32):
obviously it was exciting for him to to to have
such a big hit with with Star Wars. Uh, you know,
quite quite amazing, really, he was. He's he was one
of the only composers to have a hit record on
the pop charts. So yeah, and several of them, the

(12:52):
Little canteena band tune, and the main the main theme,
and and then and then again and Empire strikes back
with with the Imperial March or the Darth Vader theme
that people people know that in some ways that's even
more popular than the main theme.

Speaker 1 (13:07):
Right of course, he's what ninety three now something like that.

Speaker 2 (13:10):
That's it. He's ninety three. Is he still active, Yeah,
he's where. He's in the middle of doing Steven Spielberg's
next film, it's coming out.

Speaker 1 (13:19):
Wow, that is so cool. Well, Joe, it's been great
to talk to you, great to meet you. And again
I cannot wait for you guys to get to the
Capitol Theater in this time. I'm going to show up
an hour early, so I'm not hoofing it down one
of those streets in Davenport trying to find a parking space.

Speaker 2 (13:38):
No, come, come early, Come back and hang with us
for a minute before we play.

Speaker 1 (13:42):
That have be fun too, for sure. Joe Williams of Toto,
thank you, my pleasure.