EITM: Terminal Lucidity 4/24/24

AKA the "rally" or the "bounce-back."

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
I don't know the woman's name,but there's like a hospice nurse. I
don't it sounds like she has alike maybe she has a little bit of
a following online, but she's likea hospice nurse, or maybe she's one
of many where it's like they'll postthings of like things you don't know about
hospice. You've come across one ortwo of those. Yeah, right,
there's definitely when I found out,of course the but but like there's there's

(00:24):
somewhere they'll go here's here's something abouthospice you may not know, like for
example, with Jimmy Carter, here'ssomething about hospice. You may not know
you can survive for years. It'swell some do. But you hear hospice,
you always think couple maybe yeah,won't say tomorrow. Have we heard
of hold on? I gotta findthe term. So I was reading this

(00:47):
woman and she talks about she's goingthrough things that people may not know when
they have a loved one in hospice. No, I can't find it.
Not the death stare we've heard of? That? Is there something called lucidity?
Silent lucidity? Well, isn't thata song? Yes, here's the

(01:11):
death reach. We've learned about that. Why can't I find hold on?
It's a long article and I alwaysprint all the comments. Is there something
called death lucidity? Diane? Terminalterminal lucidity? There it is, that's
it right here? Has anybody everheard of that? Terminal lucidity? This

(01:33):
is the woman that I follow bythe way, Oh is it? I
said, do you know what thisis? Do you know what terminal lucidity
is? Now? So terminal lucidityand maybe somebody's got somebody that experienced it,
where like somebody's in Like I don'twant to be insensitive, but when
you're in hospice, you're in prettybad shape. I mean, listen,

(01:53):
Carter's crushing it, but he ain'tup dancing. But when you're when you're
in hospice, and like, especiallywhen you're nearing the end, you're you're
not you're not in good shape.But they said, somebody will be in
hospice. I am right like this, like that's ninety percent of your day.
Right for the most part, I'munconscious or just like really zombie.

(02:17):
Now right, there's not a lotof back and forth. They said,
terminal lucidity is that person will belike that for a couple of days.
Right, they're in hospice, it'sit's almost the end, and they are
they're zombies, right, bag ofbones. All of a sudden, they

(02:39):
wake up the next day, they'retalking, they're moving, they may even
want to get up and take awalk. They're engaged. Like it looks
like, oh my god, weyield, we found the fountain of youth
overnight, go Grandpa. Go.And then like like like forty eight hours

(03:04):
later, like now now they reallyare a bag of bones, like they're
done. Oh so people who arewell experienced they see this and no,
like don't yeah, my family,this is going to happen with oh very
quick. Yeah, oh yeah,like that that green banana ain't gonna make
it to yellow. Do they giveyou the heads up on this, so
you aren't given this false hope?Well, they said a lot of people

(03:24):
do have this false hope. Orthey're like, oh my god, look
I haven't talked to Grandpa in likea sentence or anything beyond in a month.
He's talking to me, yeah,I mean if somebody he's moving his
hand completely unconscious to all of asudden they're like, hey, I'm kind
of hungry, right, and don'tI don't know that they're completely unconscious.

(03:45):
I don't know what hospice was like. Like, my dad wasn't completely unconscious,
but I was talking to him andhe wasn't given a lot back,
right other than like some loud breathingwoah. But they said people will then
go like they they get themselves thinkingthat with this terminal lucidity, they get

(04:05):
themselves thinking like, oh my god, did we just beat whatever it is?
And the the hospice nurse will goNo, actually, what you're seeing
here is the end. But isn'tthat weird? From snapchat? We crag
team, we call it the rally. Do you share that with the family

(04:31):
or is that just like is thatperson a doctor? We it's that's clear
somebody works or somebody okay, andthey call it the rally, But is
that like it's instead of a bootand rally, it's a rally in like
you're done. Like they said thatthat that is a very good indication that

(04:51):
that time's up. You could seewhere the rally would be misleading, Yes,
like okay, we can, butthat is on properly again, No,
but you know what that is agood name to call it, like,
hey, how's Seagell doing in roomforty three, Oh, you weren't
here yesterday. He had the rally, and at that point they know we're
going to change out some sheets herein the next ten hours. I think

(05:13):
I prefer terminal lacidity. The rallysounds like you've totally gotten better. Yeah,
okay, Well they're not saying thatto the family. Hey, what
a hell of a rally. You'resaying it, okay, okay, yes,
yeah, behind the scenes, likeif they're asking how Seagull's doing,
they're like, well, he hadthe rally, Like you don't have to
say, well, he hit terminalvelocity lucidity lucidity velosity. No, you

(05:36):
know, well he felt hard,came right out of that plane. But
you know what, he got goingto good speed before he pulled the shoot.
You know, he was walking againand then he fell, So it
was terminal lacidity thencity. I mean, are they doing stuff they've never done
in their life, like jumping arope? No, made it seem like

(05:58):
it's pretty basic, Like it manygoes from being out to being awake and
talking and like you said, evenwanting to maybe get up out of bed
or have something to eat? WhatI meant, are they more social than
they've ever been? Ever? No, they were definitely more social, like
when they were up and interacting withpeople, even as an introvert, I
wasn't. Okay, So first let'sget past I'm not telling you what I've

(06:20):
never seen. Elliott's so social inhis life. Cute skirt. Okay,
So we understand that I'm not askingabout a hobby or like a foreign language,
right, I'm saying, does itthrow off some people because it's such
a burst of energy. It's notlike the sort of passive way that they

(06:42):
lived as. I don't think so. I think it's more of a For
the last three weeks, you've essentiallywatched me gross spit bubbles. But today
I'm talking to you, okay,and I'm wanting to go to the bathroom
on my own. Yeah. No, I'm not running the London Marathon.
He threw me off when you calledit a rally. I overheard you speaking

(07:04):
with some of your coworkers. Yeah. I don't think it's that much where
it's like, hey, Diane pulledthe car around, I'm ready to go.
Line three. Hi, Elliot inthe morning, will they let you
get up? Hey, bear withme for one second. Bear with me

(07:25):
for one second. I don't knowif I'm if I work at the hospice
house and the person hits the rallyand they're like, nah, I want
to sit up and eat whole food? Am I like, yeah, you,
let's let's crush five guys. Idon't know i'd want to nurse's opinion
on that, because I would likeI remember, like they told my dad.

(07:47):
I don't know if this gets anybodyin trouble, but like when my
dad was all but done, theytold my dad, you want to go
outside and smoke, go outside andsmoke. You're dead. And that was
how many days prior to him passinga handful of maybe maybe three. He
did not I was gonna ask,did he take him up on their office?

(08:09):
No, not at all. Hewanted to be healthy. The well,
No, I mean it was toolate. Who cares if your hospital
gownstinks? The it did like smoke, like piss and a little bit exactly,
you're dying. What's a little tobaccoon top of acado? No?
No, but he was just likethe thought of having a cigarette right now

(08:30):
is not doing it for me.I make you upset. This is what
led you to this moment. Doyou want to hear something horrible from me?
Diane? We all we all needto say yes. Can I tell
you something horrible? Kristen? Yes? Or no? Diane? Yes,
it's a note for me. Wayto Bruno. Okay, okay, it's

(09:01):
horrible, it's horrible. Time toprepare horrible. Let me play something that
everyone knows is the universal sound fortune out if you don't want to hear
what comes next? Yes, tapedelaying? Was this in relation to that
conversation? Yeah? Okay again,like them telling him, hey, if

(09:26):
no biggie right? And obviously hedidn't do it right? There we go?
What you did? No? Iwasn't there when that happened. No,
no, no, I wasn't there. I was. I flew that
you stole his last smokes? What'sthat right? Yes? Oh my god,
Diane said, the bad thing Itook him. I mean he's not

(09:48):
going to need these, Hey,what's your later? And not not for
sentimental reasons. Who's got time togo down to the the quickie mark right
there? Never revealed that to anyonebefore? I don't, did you?

(10:11):
I wonder why that's bad. Whenyou went outside, he wasn't. He
didn't go outside the No, no, I didn't smoke him at the hospice
was right after you took his wallet, did you? Did you at least
sort of have a mental conversation withhim as you were smoking them? What
does that mean? You know hewas dead? Oh? Okay, I

(10:35):
wasn't. It doesn't matter. Youstill talk to people when they're dead,
right, I took him from thehospice room. Okay, after he went
When we took after my dad thoughthe was going home and cigarette after he
had already died. Wasn't. Butdid you at least think about him?
I would imagine, so while you'resmoking his last couple of cigarettes. Sure,

(10:58):
now you're like, all right,when's my flight? I gotta get
back to Philly. I feel horrible, But yeah, no, I took
him. I took him and notagain, not for sentimental reason. It's
not like they're selling in my house. No, No, they were stale.
Then you were looking for your ownsort of rally, which, by

(11:20):
the way we're being told, isalso sometimes referred to as the bounce back.
Which now that's the worst, rightman, I'll tell you what.
Graham's was really just exhale and nothing. What a great bounce back though,
But the bounce back comment says itcan only last for a couple hours.
Oh, I don't know how longthe rally lasts. For the surprise,

(11:41):
it goes that long, I wouldthink it would. How long does terminal
velocity last or lucidity? How longdoes terminal like? To me? That
could almost be like, I wanta couple of minutes, No, I
want a day. A couple ofminutes. If you're talking like a day,
that's going to give people a lotof false hope. If it's something
where it's quick and the nurse canjust say, hey, listen quick like

(12:05):
you might be like this for afew minutes, but you know you're quickst
like if you get like a musclespasm. I'm talking about, like I
wake up and go gold finger.It's just a couple of minutes. Your
hospice nurse says, right here,for a terminal the city, they maybe
have a really great day, they'resuddenly hungry, thank you, walking,
I am staring, oriented, andthen shortly after usually a day or two,

(12:26):
they die. My cigarettes elli andgrateful. So it's a full day
of them, like being into itand knowing what's going on, and it
can be it can be right.Hi Ellie in the morning, Hey,
Elliott's right for the rat handing.Hey, I'm doing great. Thank you.
What can I do for you?So my mom was a haunted nurse

(12:52):
for thirty five years, and Imean the amount of stories that I've heard
over the years from different patients thatshe had were just amazing. Like one
she was my grandmother and my grandfather'sconscious nurse in their house, which was
crazy, but they like some ofthe crazy and cool things, like my
grandmother saw people in the room withthem. She wasn't under like a lot

(13:13):
of drugs. Obviously, my grandfathersaw people in the room with them before
he passed away. My mom hada patient that he was actively dying.
He just wouldn't go, and hebrought the family in blah blah blah,
thought him it was okay that hewent, and he still wouldn't go,
and my mom, for the lifeof her, couldn't figure out why.
Well, it turned out that hewas a Pearl Harbor survivor that he and

(13:35):
a bunch of other guys hid undera truck during the attack. Of Pearl
Harbor, and he lived so basicallylike his will to live was so strong
it kept them even though he waspretty well done, he just wouldn't go.
And like, so they brought outall these old photo books. I
mean, just the amount of storiesof hearing how people their will to live,
even if they are actively dying,can really keep them around longer than

(14:00):
that either the doctors or nurses thinkthey're gonna be there. Amazing. That's
impressive, that's impressible. Yeah.The other funny story was when my brother
was little, he went to myfather at one point that he was worried
for my mom. And my dadsaid, what do you mean you're worried
about mom? He said, well, all of our patients keep dying.
He didn't have any idea. That'sfunny. That's funny. That's great,

(14:24):
by the way, hard time.But that's a job I could never do.
Like I don't like death to beginwith, but that's a job I
could never the death duel, aswe've been talking about, you could never
do it. No, but it'sfor them. It's probably like you probably
feel like what a great service you'veprovided them comfort and uh and like you
were there for their rally and bounceback and then and then you kind of

(14:46):
bid them a do no, no, you're there. You're there at the
at their most vulnerable time in life. There's something very nice. I just
can't be I can't be around youif you're gonna die. My mom gets
tons of cards every year. Imean she's ben retire for about ten,
ten or twelve years now, andI mean she still gets cards from families
that she took care of twenty thirtyyears ago. And the amount I mean

(15:09):
that to her was my mom's cancersurvivor herself, but that was to her
so rewarding, and I mean,you know, it's just an amazing It
is a tough job. My momsaid it was very tough, but the
amount of you know, they reallyhelped the families and all those things,
really do you know combine to mewhy people decide to do what my mom

(15:30):
did. Oh sure and absolutely absolutely. Hey, I appreciate the phone call.
Thank you. Well, I toldyou, like well, I told
you I stole his cigarettes. Butlike when my dad died, I was
young, but I went to thelike the safe way and got a box
of chocolates for the hospice nurses.But they they almost didn't want them.
They kind of feel like it's partof their job. They don't need your

(15:50):
thanks done next. They appreciate thatstuff, though didn't seem like it well
in those centers. I bet forthey also knew I was thieving the place
for all those that are well intentionedand really want to bring meaning to this

(16:10):
sound part of life. You know, for some it is just a job.
Now. Of course they have tolike to associate to it. You
can't be around that much death,right, you can't do Does this say
how common the rally is almost ascommon as the bounce back? I don't
know. I don't know how oftenthat is. I would just hate for

(16:32):
someone who maybe finds a loved onein this situation now hearing this, where's
the bounce back? Yeah, where'smy instrumental acidity? I don't know,
but the I didn't see that witheither of my parents. No rally.
My dad definitely didn't rally. Becausesomebody wrote this is exactly when you want
family and friends to say goodbye,right, because they're they're alert and they

(16:52):
can do it, of course,and you know with twenty four forty eight
hours later, you're you're done soit's like the last guy was talking about
though, like them talking to peoplewho are also dead or who are dead
like that. I definitely saw,what's that like my dad talking to like
his dead sister, his dead mother, you know. Oh when he said

(17:12):
people in the room, I thoughtlike, like, no, like gay
were in they This hospice nurse Juliecalls it visioning where they can actually see
people. It's some sort of hallucinationthey're they're having. Oh, I don't
want that. I don't want thatto me. It was very comforting for
them. Oh that would freak meout. Well, you're not seeing it,
they're seeing it. If that wasme dying, I don't want to

(17:33):
see people that aren't there. Itseems like universally everybody feels as though it's
comforting, like if they know inthe back of their mind they know they're
dying, but they can see aloved one who is essentially like bringing them
over to the other side, soto speak, meet me when I get
there. It made me A lotof people say it takes the fear out
of it. Oh, sorry,fear not fairy Garland, And I definitely

(18:03):
don't want to be in the roomto see somebody doing that. I mean,
I'm here, they're not. No, but they're also Like with my
dad, he wasn't very he wasn'tconscious of what was going on in the
room, right, but he wasdefinitely talking to his sister and his mom,
Like there is something nice about that. Yeah, I just I think
it is comforting for the family too, to where you know, they're not

(18:29):
freaked out, they're not in apanic, you know, all right?
Yeah, I mean I guess so. Yes, Tyler from Beth on Facebook,
the rally definitely happened for both ofmy parents. Cool mom first,
and I was ecstatic, but thenwe lost her with it a week.
Then happened to dad. I'm shockedshe got a week, then happened to
dad. I remained skeptical. Healso passed within the next couple. Theirs,

(18:56):
I've been to this place before.Dad's bound cuckoo line. But by
the way, yeah, I meanthey're You're right, if if God forbid,
any of us were in that situation, you wouldn't know. Well now
though now you would know. Iwould also know all of this. Really,
Yes, they're fine. Hi Elliottthe morning, Hey, how are

(19:22):
you all? Hey, I'm doinggreat, how are you good? Good?
I called. My grandfather had openheart surgery and went on life support,
and uh, my grandmother decided itwas time to take him off life
support. And we were all inthe room and he woke up and talked
to everybody for three four hours justlike nothing happened, just like his old

(19:45):
self. And uh then he slowlystarted going to sleep and uh then he
passed the following day. So hecame up. You literally unplugged the guy
and that's when he hit the bounceback. Yes. Wow. He came
back and talked, talked like heknew he was in the hospital and he
knew he had just had open heartsurgery, but he didn't know what.

(20:08):
But he, you know, wason life support for three or four days,
and he just talked about, youknow, he was glad everything went
okay, and we're all the youknow, uh, no one had the
heart to tell him, and becausethe nurse they had told us before that
it could happen, and it happened, and it just that's a good question.

(20:30):
You said he ticked off about what'dyou say a day later? Yeah,
yeah, yeah, yeah, Andlike I said, he was he
was awake, awake, alert,like him old self. For it was
probably three and a half hours,and then you know, then you could
see in his eyes and getting tired, and he went to sleep and never

(20:52):
came back. Wow. But areyou in hindsight, are you glad that
you had those couple of hours?Yeah, of course, yeah, yeah,
I mean yeah, because you gotto see him in his old self.
You know how everybody always says thatthat wasn't him, you know,
yeah, right, you know,well that was him. He was him

(21:14):
the old self for that short periodof time. That's great, that's great.
No, good for you, goodfor you. I do have a
question, Hey, thank you sir. I do have a question though.
Do they tell you like during therally? You got to be real careful
about what you say, Like whatare you going to say that's bad?
Like if they yeah, but whatif they rally and they're like, I'll
tell you what I feel great?Like this is awesome. I'm sure I'll

(21:37):
be going home in the next dayor two. But do you now by
home if by home you mean Heaven? Yes, No, I think you
should, wouldn't they say you shouldjust humor them? Well, I also
don't want to lie and go Yeah, when we get home, We're gonna
grill, We're gonna fire up thebig green egg. This is the perfect
place to lie. No, no, what would they tell you to do?
You don't want to fill someone withfalse home. And I'm very much

(22:00):
troubled by the last thing the callersaid, what's that? I feel like
it is such a common refrain whenan older person passes that you say they
were a shell of their former self. It was you're a bag of bones.

(22:21):
Oh my god, Yes, Eliot, could you refrain from saying,
did Peter ever look that sick?No, actually he didn't, but it's
almost cancered, really eating through hisentire body. Yeah, he beens back
to looking like his old self.No, with the idea that that's no
longer them. So now because I'mI never once thought about that, And

(22:41):
now I'm not just talking about theirtheir physical appearance. Yeah, they're cosmetics
or they're superficial, just everything thatmakes him a person. But now with
this rally, or with this bounceback terminal lucidity, you get a glimpse
of it right before it's over again. So it's almost like these people who

(23:04):
who have told me loved ones thatit was they needed to go because it's
not them anymore. Ah, they'relying to me. Wait, so you
like it or you don't like it? I now think it would be really
hard, oh to see them likein a good space again, because you're

(23:26):
convincing yourself as you're on this endof the journey, it's their time.
This is not who was my father? Right? Who? You know?
Who else? Oh? So Isee what you're saying. So you you
you're saying you've been looking at abag of bones, if you will for
the last No, for the lastmonth. No, no, no,
it's almost and it's it's almost likegetting back away from that would be very

(23:48):
disturbing because in your mind you're like, look at it. Here's teasing.
Yeah, like it can't happen soonenough. Almost, it's a tease.
Do you have a cigarette? Ido? Actually they're my dad's. He's
got six of them. I gottasmoke. Oh man, he thought about
having this one. It was lipso I'll keep that one. It's kind

(24:15):
of like a kiss. Now Idon't now, I don't know if I
want it. It's like being agynecologist, which part you know, the
necrophilia? What are you talking about? Tease? Part all right, this

(24:38):
is why I'm not good. Thisis why I'm not good with Dath