June 19, 2024 • 24 mins
Gary Tanguay Filled In On NightSide with Dan Rea
The Boston Celtics are NBA champions and will be honored this Friday with a rolling rally. Celebrate as Gary chatted with Boston Globe Sports Columnist Chris Gasper!
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio
The Boston Celtics are NBA champions and will be honored this Friday with a rolling rally. Celebrate as Gary chatted with Boston Globe Sports Columnist Chris Gasper!
Ask Alexa to play WBZ NewsRadio on #iHeartRadio
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
It's night Sided with Dan Ray onw Bzy Costin's new video for Tatum looking
for some Daylight and hey, razyDot, you has to trow right for
the Steale Holiday, No Harford Holiday, afraid true holiday for Downtown look at
(00:25):
some daylight, Elivate flash Round getshis arms love Helpy flicks it up and
in just masterful of Things, Celtic'sgonna turn over the two chairs. Gotta
work o the Tatum and the Celticsflawless in transition. Chris Casper joins us
(00:46):
right now Boston Globe celebrating the BostonCeltics. Gasper, do you know that
song hooked on a Feeling? Yes, they do. You do bej Thomas
Baby a golden nugget because you dugit. Anyways, Rock Ta Rock Tan
thirty WBC. All right, I'mGary tagling for Dan ray Gasper. Thank
you so much for joining us,and I appreciate the time. Okay,
(01:06):
So the Celtics. Everybody knows ChrisBoston Globe, you know, NBC Sports
Boston and all that stuff. Sothe Celtics when they're eighteenth Batner and before
we get into the journalistic end ofthings. As a fan, you grew
up here. How did you feelwhen they won it? I felt great.
I mean it was great, especiallythis group, seeing Tatum and Brown
(01:27):
be able to finally get to theNBA mountaintop. And I have to say,
you know, this team, justthe way they played throughout the year
when you had an opportunity to watchthem. If you appreciate basketball, they
have the highest offensive rating, youknow, in the history of the game
since that number has been kept,and the way they moved to basketball,
played with continuity and chemistry. Theywere just a really enjoyable team to watch
(01:52):
all year long. And sometimes youhave teams that are fun to watch but
they don't win, you know,like the Isaiah Thomas Celtics. Or you're
gonna have teams that maybe aren't quiteas much much, you know, fun
to watch, but they're able tosort of grind it out and win,
kind of like the nineties New JerseyDevils in the NHL. But this is
the best of both worlds. Itwas a team that was very enjoyable and
a joy to watch and ended upwinning a championship on top of it.
(02:14):
So easy to root for absolutely,I mean, not just the way they
played, but a lot of theguys on the team totally as people,
Gasper, that's what you know.Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry to
cut you off, but to talkabout them as people. I mean,
look, and I don't want tostereotype athletes because it happens much too often
that, you know, professional athletesthat make a ton of money, they're
(02:35):
all drugs. That's not true,you know, I in ninety five percent,
I would even say ninety eight percentof the people we cover are all
cool, They're fine. But youknow, there's always you know, sometimes
in the NBA you get different characters, whether it's a Dennis Rodman or you
know, even Jordan arguably the greatestplayer of all time. That guy had
to check it past. He's notthe nicest guy in the world. Draymond
(02:57):
Green has had his problems. Thereis not one guy on the Celtic team
that should be disliked as an individual, No, absolutely not. I mean,
how can you not like Al Horford, you know, the classy elder
statesman. How can you not likeDerek White who just quietly does his job.
How can you not like Drew Holliday, who's a bona fide winner,
you know, how can you notlike you know from a personality standpoint,
(03:19):
you know, Tatum always says allthe right things. And I'll tell you
a funny story. You know,Jalen Brown was the last guy to come
to the podium ouse there's a lotof celebrating going on. He was the
last guy to come to the podiumon Monday night after Game five when they
won the championship, And as hewalked out of the press conference room,
he was shaking the hands of reporters, So you know, excuse me what,
(03:42):
Yeah, he was shaking the handsof reporters who were, you know,
congratulating him, and he was receivingthose congratulations So, as you mentioned,
you know, there's not really anyoneon this team, and again I
always say, I mean, wedon't really know. You never know what's
really going on in somebody's personal life. But again, they are a very
likable team. Oh come on,Jason Tatum. By the way, Chris
(04:03):
Gasper, I guess you're from theBoston Globe on WBC's Night Side talking about
the Celtics eighteenth batter. The onlycriticism of Jason Tatum has been always keeps
his kit up too late, andat the age of nineteen, he became
a father, stepped up. He'sawesome. I mean, look, you
could tell, like Jason Tatum twothings matter, basketball and his son.
What the hell is not to like? And also, though I want to
(04:26):
point out before we get to JTand JB on the court, both of
them as far as being active intheir community, we all know Jalen has
been very active and we'll probably bean attorney or run for offer someday.
But you know he's long after hisNBA days are over, he's going to
be contributing to society. But thatJason Tatum stepped up this year, and
I was wondering if you knew,like if he got some inspiration from Jalen
(04:48):
where you know, and we talkedabout it. Before you know it,
Tatum started this charity for his hometownof East Saint Louis. No, I
don't know where the inspiration came from. I mean, I certainly got inspiration,
you know, from his mom.He's talked about that in terms of
what he saw his mom do andput herself through school and I get a
law degree and do all that asa single mom. And he knew that
(05:11):
there were sometimes financial struggles because maybethere were things that they didn't know about
from a money management well standpoint,and that's why he partnered with so far.
He wants to close the wealth gap, you know, in the black
community. He wants to do abetter job of financial education. And he
talked about how that came from hisexperience and you know, with his mom,
you know, in terms of Ido think they sort of rub off
(05:34):
on each other in different ways.So I can't rule it out, you
know, I can't say that thatthat's why Tatum suddenly is doing some of
these other things that he's doing.But I've said this, you know,
both on and off the court,I think everybody wants that one guy that
you can point to and say that'sthe figurehead of the franchise. When you
look at them together, you geteverything you could ever want from a franchise
(05:57):
figurehead. And those two guys together, and people do have to wrap their
minds around the idea that it's twoguys giving you that instead of one.
Well, they also have to wraptheir minds around the fact that just because
we had Larry Magic, Kareem MichaelLebron doesn't mean it's going to happen all
the time. I mean, youcan point, you know, to the
(06:19):
guys in Denver and Dallas, Idon't know, are they the best players
in the league right now? Butwe had a stretch, you know,
Chris of like twenty five years wherewe had like one guy who people say
he's the best player in the league. That doesn't exist right now as far
as I'm concerned. Yeah, Imean, I say, Jokic is you
know, it's hard to go againstJokic, but I mean, is he
(06:40):
in the category of a Michael Jordan? You know, no, And he
doesn't quite have that charisma, right, and he's a really good player.
He's very effective. But when Ilook at the Celtics team, I almost
got a harken back to one youcovered THEA team, right you had they
don't win with al Paul Pierce andhis incredible ability to basically go Mano Amano
with its Lebron James and Kobe Bryant, who are really two best players game.
(07:02):
But everybody knows the leader of thatteam and the emotional heartbeat of that
team was Kevin Garnett, correct,And so I think it's kind of similar
with the Jays. Whereas that twothousand and eight Celtics team, it wasn't
just one guy, it was youknow, multiple people. I think it's
the same thing with this team,Chris Gaspar guests of the Boston Globe.
How did Jalen and Jason get onthe same page? You got any inside
(07:27):
scooped there on? How because weall know they had to figure it out.
It took seven years, you know, Yeah, I mean, I
do think it helped Frankly that theyhad more of a leadership role and that
he sort of removed a little bitof the middleman and Marcus Smart not just
from a leadership standpoint, but asa point guard, and he was a
little bit more traditional in terms ofneeding to handle the ball. Now a
lot of that ball handling goes tothose two guys, particularly Tatum. I'll
(07:50):
tell you what I think really helpedwas Kristaps Porzingis coming. I think the
chemistry between Porzingis and Jalen Brown,that the chemistry between Jalen Brown and Tatum.
I think playing with Porzingis got JaylenBrown to look at the game in
a different way, and those guyssort of had instant chemistry. And certainly
Jalen Brown made plays and passes.You know, this year it's funny because
(08:13):
I thought about during Game five,there were like back to back threes,
and one was Tatum made a playwhere he kicked it to Brown, and
then Brown made a play that hewouldn't have made before. He didn't kick
it to Tatum, but I thinkhe kicked it to Derek White, And
those are plays those guys wouldn't havemade, you know, two years ago,
whether it was to each other ornot to each other, those are
fines on the court that they wouldn'thave made. I just think they got
(08:37):
to a point and they're still young, you know, twenty six and twenty
seven, but I got to apoint where finally the overall team accomplishment,
they were willing to subjugate their egosand anything else that meant more to them
than the individual stuff. Like theyhad to get some of the individual stuff
first, I think before they couldreally get on the same page. Can
you give you something specific how Porzingisaffected Brown. Was it just as happy,
(08:58):
go lucky attitude. Well, theybecame fast friends. I mean they're
they're really close friends. And Ithink at Porzingis is a very good passing
big man. And I just thinkthe idea of watching Porzingis play the way
he did in that sort of chemistrythat those guys had, like they had
great chemistry. I noticed it earlyin the season that covered a game against
Milwaukee that they played at the guard, and I think it was among the
(09:22):
first dozen games of the year,and you could just see right away they
had a chemistry on the pick androll, whether it was Brown showing him
a lob or you know, goingto Porzingis and Porzingis hitting a cutting Brown
that I had just never seen Brownhave with another player before. And I
think it kind of opened up hiseyes to the ability to be able to
interact with not just one teammate,but multiple teammates, and the beauty in
(09:46):
that, the beauty in being ableto pass, you know. So I
think just and also probably being ona ton of trips and flights and buses
and talking about life, but alsobasketball with Porzingis. You know, when
somebody else has a different point ofview than you and you start to be
able to sympathize that, it canreally open up your eyes and open up
your world. And I think that'skind of what happens to Jalen Chris Gasper's
(10:07):
Our Guests from the Boston Globe comingup next audition by subtraction. We're going
to talk about it better eighteen forthe Celtics right here on WBC's night Side.
Now back to Dan Ray line fromthe Window World night Side Studios on
WBZ News Radio. Perfect Flock Flockwartersings, He's doing it all. There's
(10:30):
a Celtic avalangs Washington Tron flock bywhy oh What? On Block from Water,
perfect shot, block Crown again witha rejection Brown three Winter bost Holiday,
Houser three, Potter tying a playingphysical love a jump shot now our
(10:54):
bucket. It's always good to havea little Gloria Gayner on the radio.
Chris Gasper with us here on WBC'sNightside, Gary Tankway for Dan Ray,
Celtics went better a ted okay,Gasper. We've talked about Marcus Smart before.
I'm not going to bash the guy, but I do want to bring
a different angle to the discussion.Everyone pointed out how Holiday was such an
(11:16):
improvement over Marcus. We know that. What I also think with Marcus leaving,
it allowed Brown to become the primedefender, and it also allowed him
to become the emotional leader. Becauseyou and I both know. I think
it was during the Miami series Brownwanted to take Butler, but Marcus had
a problem with that, and Ithink that has really freed up Brown to
(11:37):
be who he is. Yeah,I think there's definitely something to that.
And also in the Philly series lastyear in the second round, it was
Brown that was able to slow downPardon when there were some struggles with that
with Smart. You know, Ithink Smart certainly has a great defensive reputation
that he earned, but I thinkthere was a little bit of slippage there.
(11:58):
And look, he was just abig personality, There's no question about
it. And he had been thelongest tenured guy, and I just think
that there was a little bit ofguys, you know, whether it was
subconscious or conscious, sort of cateringto him, you know, making him,
you know, feel appreciated and valuedas that longest tenured Celtic guy.
And I think his role on theteam and his role as a leader became
(12:22):
outsized, really bigger than it shouldhave been based on his overall ability.
And I think the other thing,just to add to what you're saying,
it wasn't just Brown. I thinkmoving on from Smart really freed up Derek
White to be Derek White, youknow some of those. Yeah, because
there were times last year where you'dsay, down the stretch of a game,
well, why is Derek White noton the floor, but Marcus Smart
(12:43):
is? You know, you wouldlook at some of the closing lineups and
stuff and say, well, what'shappening here, like on this particular night,
you know. And it was anight to night thing. Not every
night. There was some night Smartwas a better choice, but there were
nights where it felt like White wasthe better choice and he wouldn't be out
there to close out the game.So I think that by subtracting him from
the team, you actually allowed someguys, particularly Brown and White, to
(13:09):
blossom really, whereas before maybe theywere just a little bit stifled by the
fact that the team celt A andto get the most out of Smart,
so they had to put him ina very specific role that sort of honored
his stature and standing with the team. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean
the back court. I was talkingto Bob Ryan, the legend his favorite
backcourt he said of all time isfor the Celtics, he's White and Holiday.
(13:33):
Wow. I mean that is highpraise, particularly coming from Bob.
I mean, he's basically seen allof the great Celtic backcourts and for him
to say that that just tells youhow great these guys were this year.
I mean, what a luxury.You know, Drew Holliday was for most
of the year was basically like thefifth option. And he was willing to
accept that. He was willing toaccept that role a guy that had been
(13:54):
a champion before that, had beena two time NBA All Star. It's
just rare to find that. Iwas talking to Brad Stevens before the Finals
and he was talking about Drew Hollidayand he said that when he was a
coach of the team, he wouldgo to Danny Ainge kind of every year
it's like, you know, it'dbe great if we could get Drew Holliday
on this team. And he said, you know, he knew that that
Danny tried. They certainly tried toget Drew Holliday over the years, but
(14:18):
this was the time they could finallyget him. And you can see why
Brad was so enamored of Drew Hollidaybecause he really was fantastic in the postseason
and all year long, and he'sa guy that the last four years has
shot forty from three. And again, that's another thing when you look at
Smart and he certainly had his momentsfrom three and you know, tying the
franchise record for threes in a gameand all that, but you know,
(14:41):
teams would basically dare him to shootand he couldn't make them pay enough for
the Celtics to get over the hump. Well, for my money, I
thought that Holiday was the MVP,and I understand it was close across the
board. They're really they gave itto Jalen That's great. It was terrific
the way he mentioned Jason Tatum.But from what I saw his movement without
(15:03):
the ball, I mean, howmany times the guy would sneak under the
hoop and get an easy basket.He's such a team guy, you know.
He was talking to scale in ednyHouse on NBC Sports Boston after the
game and he said, Hey,you know my twenty six points nine er
six came from from Tatum. Ithought he was the MVP of the series
(15:24):
myself. Yeah, you could makethe case. I mean, I think
if you watch the games, ifyou don't just go with the numbers or
a reputation. You could certainly makea case. You know, it's always
sort of one of those things that'snebulous. It's or what is most valuable?
Really mean, is it the bestthe guy with the most stats.
Is it the guy that was theglue, guy that sort of held it
all together? He certainly was theblue guy that held it all together.
(15:46):
And look well, Chris, Imean, he moves so well without the
ball, man, he just getsit, and that matters so much.
And again, not to pick onSmart, but that is kind of the
difference, right because Smart was aguy that I think did his best work
with the ball in his hands,and with a more traditional sort of point
guard with the ball in his hands. But when you're playing with Tatum and
(16:07):
Brown, the ability to function withoutthe ball is a better complimentary skill set
than someone else who needs the ballto do their best work. And I
think again that's why he ultimately wasa better fit and so valuable for them.
Do you think Jason Tatum has redefinedhimself? And I'll add this to
it. I was talking to JeffGoodman, who you know, of course,
(16:27):
and he started covering Tatum when hewas like fourteen or fifteen on the
AAU circuit and he said, thenI thought Jason was going to be a
distributor. He just said, peopledon't understand how great of a passer he
can be. Well, we sawit during this during the series. Yeah,
I mean, he had nine tosix in the first half of Game
(16:48):
five, and I think nobody dida better job of taking advantage of the
overall talent on the team. Andthis is the thing you asked the superstars
to do. Be unselfish and makethe right play, and Tatum did that
over and over over again, youknow, all season long and all playoffs
long. Now, for those tobe assists, you have to have guys
that knock down those shots, right. I mean, you know there were
some plays in this series where Lucamade unbelievable passes and a guy bricks a
(17:11):
wide open three. That's not anassist. So you know, you benefit
from the talent around you. Butwhat Tatum did such a great job of
doing was trusting his teammates. Eventhough he's the best player, he was
willing to trust the other guys,and that really helped the Celtics and made
them I think the team that theywere throughout the regular season and throughout the
(17:32):
postseason. And to answer your question, of course this changes the way people
perceive Jason Tatum because he won achampionship. Never again can you say he
hasn't won a championship and he didn'tget over the hump. And frankly,
I did not have a vote,But if I did have a vote,
you know, no disrespect to JalnBrown, whys I had a great series,
I would have voted for Tatum asthe NBA Finals MVP. Well,
(17:52):
how come? Because I thought thatthe way he finished the series, you
know, round scuffled a little inGame four and he was seven to twenty
three in Game five. Yeh.And I thought the way Tatum finished the
series two of the last three gameswith thirty point games on top of what
you just mentioned so distributing, Ithought that that for me would have put
(18:15):
him over the top. And alsoyou know, putting the nail in the
coffin for the MAVs with eleven ofhis thirty one coming in the fourth quarter
in Game five. It's close.And I certainly understand those who voted for
Jalen Brown. I think they gotit right in the Eastern Conference Finals,
going with Jalen Brown over Tatum.But if I'd had to vote in the
NBA Finals, I would have votedJason Tatum as NBA Finals. He certainly
could have gotten it. I mean, that's it certainly could have gone to
(18:37):
Tatum. So what about the futurehere? Obviously wic and company they're going
to pay the freight, They've paidforty eight million dollars in the luxury tax.
They're going to sign Tatum. Theseguys are twenty six and twenty seven
years old, so it looks prettygood. Don't want to jinx anybody here,
(18:57):
it does. I mean, youknow, they have the core under
contract for next year. Derek Whiteis eligible this offseason. He has one
year leftons deal for a four yearextension. I think it's about one hundred
and twenty six million. We'll seeif he signs that. If he doesn't
and goes through the year and getsto free agency, he could be the
first guy to go because I thinkthere are teams that see his value and
(19:19):
he could really get a lot ofmoney. But he seems pretty happy here
and so maybe he's willing to takea little bit, you know, less
to stay here than he could geton the open market. But they have
a window here. They certainly havea window here to be able to make
this not only one championship, butmultiple ones. And this is gonna sound
weird, but I actually think it'sgoing to be easier for them. You
(19:41):
know, the first time, Ithink is the hardest, getting over that
mental hurt, removing that mental block, knowing that you can do it right.
There's a difference between knowing the pathand walking the path. So I
think now that they've done that,I think it actually gets easier for them.
And you know what's the scary thingis, there's a couple of scary
things. Gary One, Tatum andBrown are still getting better. I don't
(20:02):
think they're finished products. And theother thing is they added kristavs Porzingis,
who averaged twenty points per game duringthe regular season for about four and a
half games of this playoff front.So the Celtics can be even better as
dominant as they were at sixteen andthree, they can be better. That
was not That was not the optimizedversion of the Celtics in the playoffs.
They are not a finished product.I agree, because I still believe the
(20:30):
perception that there are a three pointshooting team is a little overrated. I
know they take a lot of threes. I understand that, but I think
their strength is much greater than that. I think to say that they just
shoot threes is oversimplifying it, andI don't think it's giving them enough credit.
I think that when they went upby ten in Game five, it
(20:52):
was all to the hoop. Ithink that Tatum's better off going to the
hoop. I don't think they shootthrees great off the dribble. I think
they shoot threes much better off thecatch and when they penetrate and they kick
out, you know. So,I think that they're just much more of
a complete team than that. Andlike you just said, Chris, they're
even getting better because you could lookat this as great as they were,
(21:14):
you could look at this team thisyear and pick like two minutes of a
game, show that clip and yougo, oh my god, they're terrible.
I mean, they would have momentswhere I go, what are they
doing? But they were so goodin the other ones it didn't matter.
Yeah, there were certainly some mentallapses there. I mean, you know,
I hear you on the threes.Although I'll say that's a big part
of Joe Mizzula's yeah, and he'sreally into the matt. You know what
(21:40):
I would say on the threes isthis, they built a team that was
able to I don't want to sayprove his theory, but to make his
theory work. It's not the otherway around. In other words, the
theory didn't make the team. Theybuilt a team that was about eight deep
with guys that could hit threes.That makes his theory work. Otherwise,
I honestly don't really think it works. And last year, if you look
(22:03):
at Denver, they were fifteenth amongsixteen playoff teams and three point attempts and
they won. You know that workedfor that, right, But for this
particular team, yes, three pointattempt rate was very important to them.
But you know what, You're rightbecause Joe said multiple times during the year,
we need to have multiple identities.We need to have more than one
identity. And on nights when thethrees weren't falling, or during fans in
(22:25):
a game where the threes weren't falling, including in Game five where they had
a stretch where they missed ten straightthrees, they were able to go to
other things and that was something thatwas different from the past. And pass
over. Yeah, I mean Isee Holiday open under the hoop because he
sneaks by. I see Tatum goingto the basket. They can do more.
And to wrap it up, course, I just have to say,
not that I was crazy man inmy youth, but what NBA championship team
(22:52):
goes to Miami for twenty four hours? What are they doing back here already?
They should be flying in front morningbefore the parade? Yeah, I
don't know. Man. The longeryou stay in Miami, Atlanta, there's
certain New York, certain places LAand the NBA where you know, you
feel like you have an advantage becauseyou know the opponent's going to be out
(23:14):
all night. I think, ifyou you don't want to stay in South
Beach too long, what's what's theold thing? You know your parents would
tell you nothing good happens after midnight. I think nothing good happens in South
Beach on the second night. It'stime to go. You know you're probably
right about that. Are you gonnago? Are you going to cover the
parade in person? I don't thinkso. Normally news side for the Globe
cover. You are so lucky,I've done a million parades. Yeah,
(23:38):
watch it on TV, Man,I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I've gone
to them as a fan. Iwent to the first Patriots one in two
thousand and two, which was awesome. They're fun to go to as a
fan. I don't think i've evercovered one. If I did, i'd
probably sound a lot like Michael Felgerdid that one year. They said to
him, Oh, you mean whenwhen when Felger said to the twins what's
(23:59):
your birthday? And what's your birthday? Or something like that? It was.
It was a beaut all right,Gasper, you're the best. Thanks
for coming on all right, appreciateit, Gary, thanks for having me,
all right. Chris Gasper, BostonGlobe talking about the world champion Boston
Celtics. Coming up next. Aterrific movie that you are going to want
to see ephis and it's made bysome local guys. That's coming up on
WBC's Night Side.
It's night Sided with Dan Ray onw Bzy Costin's new video for Tatum looking
for some Daylight and hey, razyDot, you has to trow right for
the Steale Holiday, No Harford Holiday, afraid true holiday for Downtown look at
(00:25):
some daylight, Elivate flash Round getshis arms love Helpy flicks it up and
in just masterful of Things, Celtic'sgonna turn over the two chairs. Gotta
work o the Tatum and the Celticsflawless in transition. Chris Casper joins us
(00:46):
right now Boston Globe celebrating the BostonCeltics. Gasper, do you know that
song hooked on a Feeling? Yes, they do. You do bej Thomas
Baby a golden nugget because you dugit. Anyways, Rock Ta Rock Tan
thirty WBC. All right, I'mGary tagling for Dan ray Gasper. Thank
you so much for joining us,and I appreciate the time. Okay,
(01:06):
So the Celtics. Everybody knows ChrisBoston Globe, you know, NBC Sports
Boston and all that stuff. Sothe Celtics when they're eighteenth Batner and before
we get into the journalistic end ofthings. As a fan, you grew
up here. How did you feelwhen they won it? I felt great.
I mean it was great, especiallythis group, seeing Tatum and Brown
(01:27):
be able to finally get to theNBA mountaintop. And I have to say,
you know, this team, justthe way they played throughout the year
when you had an opportunity to watchthem. If you appreciate basketball, they
have the highest offensive rating, youknow, in the history of the game
since that number has been kept,and the way they moved to basketball,
played with continuity and chemistry. Theywere just a really enjoyable team to watch
(01:52):
all year long. And sometimes youhave teams that are fun to watch but
they don't win, you know,like the Isaiah Thomas Celtics. Or you're
gonna have teams that maybe aren't quiteas much much, you know, fun
to watch, but they're able tosort of grind it out and win,
kind of like the nineties New JerseyDevils in the NHL. But this is
the best of both worlds. Itwas a team that was very enjoyable and
a joy to watch and ended upwinning a championship on top of it.
(02:14):
So easy to root for absolutely,I mean, not just the way they
played, but a lot of theguys on the team totally as people,
Gasper, that's what you know.Yeah, I mean, I'm sorry to
cut you off, but to talkabout them as people. I mean,
look, and I don't want tostereotype athletes because it happens much too often
that, you know, professional athletesthat make a ton of money, they're
(02:35):
all drugs. That's not true,you know, I in ninety five percent,
I would even say ninety eight percentof the people we cover are all
cool, They're fine. But youknow, there's always you know, sometimes
in the NBA you get different characters, whether it's a Dennis Rodman or you
know, even Jordan arguably the greatestplayer of all time. That guy had
to check it past. He's notthe nicest guy in the world. Draymond
(02:57):
Green has had his problems. Thereis not one guy on the Celtic team
that should be disliked as an individual, No, absolutely not. I mean,
how can you not like Al Horford, you know, the classy elder
statesman. How can you not likeDerek White who just quietly does his job.
How can you not like Drew Holliday, who's a bona fide winner,
you know, how can you notlike you know from a personality standpoint,
(03:19):
you know, Tatum always says allthe right things. And I'll tell you
a funny story. You know,Jalen Brown was the last guy to come
to the podium ouse there's a lotof celebrating going on. He was the
last guy to come to the podiumon Monday night after Game five when they
won the championship, And as hewalked out of the press conference room,
he was shaking the hands of reporters, So you know, excuse me what,
(03:42):
Yeah, he was shaking the handsof reporters who were, you know,
congratulating him, and he was receivingthose congratulations So, as you mentioned,
you know, there's not really anyoneon this team, and again I
always say, I mean, wedon't really know. You never know what's
really going on in somebody's personal life. But again, they are a very
likable team. Oh come on,Jason Tatum. By the way, Chris
(04:03):
Gasper, I guess you're from theBoston Globe on WBC's Night Side talking about
the Celtics eighteenth batter. The onlycriticism of Jason Tatum has been always keeps
his kit up too late, andat the age of nineteen, he became
a father, stepped up. He'sawesome. I mean, look, you
could tell, like Jason Tatum twothings matter, basketball and his son.
What the hell is not to like? And also, though I want to
(04:26):
point out before we get to JTand JB on the court, both of
them as far as being active intheir community, we all know Jalen has
been very active and we'll probably bean attorney or run for offer someday.
But you know he's long after hisNBA days are over, he's going to
be contributing to society. But thatJason Tatum stepped up this year, and
I was wondering if you knew,like if he got some inspiration from Jalen
(04:48):
where you know, and we talkedabout it. Before you know it,
Tatum started this charity for his hometownof East Saint Louis. No, I
don't know where the inspiration came from. I mean, I certainly got inspiration,
you know, from his mom.He's talked about that in terms of
what he saw his mom do andput herself through school and I get a
law degree and do all that asa single mom. And he knew that
(05:11):
there were sometimes financial struggles because maybethere were things that they didn't know about
from a money management well standpoint,and that's why he partnered with so far.
He wants to close the wealth gap, you know, in the black
community. He wants to do abetter job of financial education. And he
talked about how that came from hisexperience and you know, with his mom,
you know, in terms of Ido think they sort of rub off
(05:34):
on each other in different ways.So I can't rule it out, you
know, I can't say that thatthat's why Tatum suddenly is doing some of
these other things that he's doing.But I've said this, you know,
both on and off the court,I think everybody wants that one guy that
you can point to and say that'sthe figurehead of the franchise. When you
look at them together, you geteverything you could ever want from a franchise
(05:57):
figurehead. And those two guys together, and people do have to wrap their
minds around the idea that it's twoguys giving you that instead of one.
Well, they also have to wraptheir minds around the fact that just because
we had Larry Magic, Kareem MichaelLebron doesn't mean it's going to happen all
the time. I mean, youcan point, you know, to the
(06:19):
guys in Denver and Dallas, Idon't know, are they the best players
in the league right now? Butwe had a stretch, you know,
Chris of like twenty five years wherewe had like one guy who people say
he's the best player in the league. That doesn't exist right now as far
as I'm concerned. Yeah, Imean, I say, Jokic is you
know, it's hard to go againstJokic, but I mean, is he
(06:40):
in the category of a Michael Jordan? You know, no, And he
doesn't quite have that charisma, right, and he's a really good player.
He's very effective. But when Ilook at the Celtics team, I almost
got a harken back to one youcovered THEA team, right you had they
don't win with al Paul Pierce andhis incredible ability to basically go Mano Amano
with its Lebron James and Kobe Bryant, who are really two best players game.
(07:02):
But everybody knows the leader of thatteam and the emotional heartbeat of that
team was Kevin Garnett, correct,And so I think it's kind of similar
with the Jays. Whereas that twothousand and eight Celtics team, it wasn't
just one guy, it was youknow, multiple people. I think it's
the same thing with this team,Chris Gaspar guests of the Boston Globe.
How did Jalen and Jason get onthe same page? You got any inside
(07:27):
scooped there on? How because weall know they had to figure it out.
It took seven years, you know, Yeah, I mean, I
do think it helped Frankly that theyhad more of a leadership role and that
he sort of removed a little bitof the middleman and Marcus Smart not just
from a leadership standpoint, but asa point guard, and he was a
little bit more traditional in terms ofneeding to handle the ball. Now a
lot of that ball handling goes tothose two guys, particularly Tatum. I'll
(07:50):
tell you what I think really helpedwas Kristaps Porzingis coming. I think the
chemistry between Porzingis and Jalen Brown,that the chemistry between Jalen Brown and Tatum.
I think playing with Porzingis got JaylenBrown to look at the game in
a different way, and those guyssort of had instant chemistry. And certainly
Jalen Brown made plays and passes.You know, this year it's funny because
(08:13):
I thought about during Game five,there were like back to back threes,
and one was Tatum made a playwhere he kicked it to Brown, and
then Brown made a play that hewouldn't have made before. He didn't kick
it to Tatum, but I thinkhe kicked it to Derek White, And
those are plays those guys wouldn't havemade, you know, two years ago,
whether it was to each other ornot to each other, those are
fines on the court that they wouldn'thave made. I just think they got
(08:37):
to a point and they're still young, you know, twenty six and twenty
seven, but I got to apoint where finally the overall team accomplishment,
they were willing to subjugate their egosand anything else that meant more to them
than the individual stuff. Like theyhad to get some of the individual stuff
first, I think before they couldreally get on the same page. Can
you give you something specific how Porzingisaffected Brown. Was it just as happy,
(08:58):
go lucky attitude. Well, theybecame fast friends. I mean they're
they're really close friends. And Ithink at Porzingis is a very good passing
big man. And I just thinkthe idea of watching Porzingis play the way
he did in that sort of chemistrythat those guys had, like they had
great chemistry. I noticed it earlyin the season that covered a game against
Milwaukee that they played at the guard, and I think it was among the
(09:22):
first dozen games of the year,and you could just see right away they
had a chemistry on the pick androll, whether it was Brown showing him
a lob or you know, goingto Porzingis and Porzingis hitting a cutting Brown
that I had just never seen Brownhave with another player before. And I
think it kind of opened up hiseyes to the ability to be able to
interact with not just one teammate,but multiple teammates, and the beauty in
(09:46):
that, the beauty in being ableto pass, you know. So I
think just and also probably being ona ton of trips and flights and buses
and talking about life, but alsobasketball with Porzingis. You know, when
somebody else has a different point ofview than you and you start to be
able to sympathize that, it canreally open up your eyes and open up
your world. And I think that'skind of what happens to Jalen Chris Gasper's
(10:07):
Our Guests from the Boston Globe comingup next audition by subtraction. We're going
to talk about it better eighteen forthe Celtics right here on WBC's night Side.
Now back to Dan Ray line fromthe Window World night Side Studios on
WBZ News Radio. Perfect Flock Flockwartersings, He's doing it all. There's
(10:30):
a Celtic avalangs Washington Tron flock bywhy oh What? On Block from Water,
perfect shot, block Crown again witha rejection Brown three Winter bost Holiday,
Houser three, Potter tying a playingphysical love a jump shot now our
(10:54):
bucket. It's always good to havea little Gloria Gayner on the radio.
Chris Gasper with us here on WBC'sNightside, Gary Tankway for Dan Ray,
Celtics went better a ted okay,Gasper. We've talked about Marcus Smart before.
I'm not going to bash the guy, but I do want to bring
a different angle to the discussion.Everyone pointed out how Holiday was such an
(11:16):
improvement over Marcus. We know that. What I also think with Marcus leaving,
it allowed Brown to become the primedefender, and it also allowed him
to become the emotional leader. Becauseyou and I both know. I think
it was during the Miami series Brownwanted to take Butler, but Marcus had
a problem with that, and Ithink that has really freed up Brown to
(11:37):
be who he is. Yeah,I think there's definitely something to that.
And also in the Philly series lastyear in the second round, it was
Brown that was able to slow downPardon when there were some struggles with that
with Smart. You know, Ithink Smart certainly has a great defensive reputation
that he earned, but I thinkthere was a little bit of slippage there.
(11:58):
And look, he was just abig personality, There's no question about
it. And he had been thelongest tenured guy, and I just think
that there was a little bit ofguys, you know, whether it was
subconscious or conscious, sort of cateringto him, you know, making him,
you know, feel appreciated and valuedas that longest tenured Celtic guy.
And I think his role on theteam and his role as a leader became
(12:22):
outsized, really bigger than it shouldhave been based on his overall ability.
And I think the other thing,just to add to what you're saying,
it wasn't just Brown. I thinkmoving on from Smart really freed up Derek
White to be Derek White, youknow some of those. Yeah, because
there were times last year where you'dsay, down the stretch of a game,
well, why is Derek White noton the floor, but Marcus Smart
(12:43):
is? You know, you wouldlook at some of the closing lineups and
stuff and say, well, what'shappening here, like on this particular night,
you know. And it was anight to night thing. Not every
night. There was some night Smartwas a better choice, but there were
nights where it felt like White wasthe better choice and he wouldn't be out
there to close out the game.So I think that by subtracting him from
the team, you actually allowed someguys, particularly Brown and White, to
(13:09):
blossom really, whereas before maybe theywere just a little bit stifled by the
fact that the team celt A andto get the most out of Smart,
so they had to put him ina very specific role that sort of honored
his stature and standing with the team. Yeah, that's interesting. I mean
the back court. I was talkingto Bob Ryan, the legend his favorite
backcourt he said of all time isfor the Celtics, he's White and Holiday.
(13:33):
Wow. I mean that is highpraise, particularly coming from Bob.
I mean, he's basically seen allof the great Celtic backcourts and for him
to say that that just tells youhow great these guys were this year.
I mean, what a luxury.You know, Drew Holliday was for most
of the year was basically like thefifth option. And he was willing to
accept that. He was willing toaccept that role a guy that had been
(13:54):
a champion before that, had beena two time NBA All Star. It's
just rare to find that. Iwas talking to Brad Stevens before the Finals
and he was talking about Drew Hollidayand he said that when he was a
coach of the team, he wouldgo to Danny Ainge kind of every year
it's like, you know, it'dbe great if we could get Drew Holliday
on this team. And he said, you know, he knew that that
Danny tried. They certainly tried toget Drew Holliday over the years, but
(14:18):
this was the time they could finallyget him. And you can see why
Brad was so enamored of Drew Hollidaybecause he really was fantastic in the postseason
and all year long, and he'sa guy that the last four years has
shot forty from three. And again, that's another thing when you look at
Smart and he certainly had his momentsfrom three and you know, tying the
franchise record for threes in a gameand all that, but you know,
(14:41):
teams would basically dare him to shootand he couldn't make them pay enough for
the Celtics to get over the hump. Well, for my money, I
thought that Holiday was the MVP,and I understand it was close across the
board. They're really they gave itto Jalen That's great. It was terrific
the way he mentioned Jason Tatum.But from what I saw his movement without
(15:03):
the ball, I mean, howmany times the guy would sneak under the
hoop and get an easy basket.He's such a team guy, you know.
He was talking to scale in ednyHouse on NBC Sports Boston after the
game and he said, Hey,you know my twenty six points nine er
six came from from Tatum. Ithought he was the MVP of the series
(15:24):
myself. Yeah, you could makethe case. I mean, I think
if you watch the games, ifyou don't just go with the numbers or
a reputation. You could certainly makea case. You know, it's always
sort of one of those things that'snebulous. It's or what is most valuable?
Really mean, is it the bestthe guy with the most stats.
Is it the guy that was theglue, guy that sort of held it
all together? He certainly was theblue guy that held it all together.
(15:46):
And look well, Chris, Imean, he moves so well without the
ball, man, he just getsit, and that matters so much.
And again, not to pick onSmart, but that is kind of the
difference, right because Smart was aguy that I think did his best work
with the ball in his hands,and with a more traditional sort of point
guard with the ball in his hands. But when you're playing with Tatum and
(16:07):
Brown, the ability to function withoutthe ball is a better complimentary skill set
than someone else who needs the ballto do their best work. And I
think again that's why he ultimately wasa better fit and so valuable for them.
Do you think Jason Tatum has redefinedhimself? And I'll add this to
it. I was talking to JeffGoodman, who you know, of course,
(16:27):
and he started covering Tatum when hewas like fourteen or fifteen on the
AAU circuit and he said, thenI thought Jason was going to be a
distributor. He just said, peopledon't understand how great of a passer he
can be. Well, we sawit during this during the series. Yeah,
I mean, he had nine tosix in the first half of Game
(16:48):
five, and I think nobody dida better job of taking advantage of the
overall talent on the team. Andthis is the thing you asked the superstars
to do. Be unselfish and makethe right play, and Tatum did that
over and over over again, youknow, all season long and all playoffs
long. Now, for those tobe assists, you have to have guys
that knock down those shots, right. I mean, you know there were
some plays in this series where Lucamade unbelievable passes and a guy bricks a
(17:11):
wide open three. That's not anassist. So you know, you benefit
from the talent around you. Butwhat Tatum did such a great job of
doing was trusting his teammates. Eventhough he's the best player, he was
willing to trust the other guys,and that really helped the Celtics and made
them I think the team that theywere throughout the regular season and throughout the
(17:32):
postseason. And to answer your question, of course this changes the way people
perceive Jason Tatum because he won achampionship. Never again can you say he
hasn't won a championship and he didn'tget over the hump. And frankly,
I did not have a vote,But if I did have a vote,
you know, no disrespect to JalnBrown, whys I had a great series,
I would have voted for Tatum asthe NBA Finals MVP. Well,
(17:52):
how come? Because I thought thatthe way he finished the series, you
know, round scuffled a little inGame four and he was seven to twenty
three in Game five. Yeh.And I thought the way Tatum finished the
series two of the last three gameswith thirty point games on top of what
you just mentioned so distributing, Ithought that that for me would have put
(18:15):
him over the top. And alsoyou know, putting the nail in the
coffin for the MAVs with eleven ofhis thirty one coming in the fourth quarter
in Game five. It's close.And I certainly understand those who voted for
Jalen Brown. I think they gotit right in the Eastern Conference Finals,
going with Jalen Brown over Tatum.But if I'd had to vote in the
NBA Finals, I would have votedJason Tatum as NBA Finals. He certainly
could have gotten it. I mean, that's it certainly could have gone to
(18:37):
Tatum. So what about the futurehere? Obviously wic and company they're going
to pay the freight, They've paidforty eight million dollars in the luxury tax.
They're going to sign Tatum. Theseguys are twenty six and twenty seven
years old, so it looks prettygood. Don't want to jinx anybody here,
(18:57):
it does. I mean, youknow, they have the core under
contract for next year. Derek Whiteis eligible this offseason. He has one
year leftons deal for a four yearextension. I think it's about one hundred
and twenty six million. We'll seeif he signs that. If he doesn't
and goes through the year and getsto free agency, he could be the
first guy to go because I thinkthere are teams that see his value and
(19:19):
he could really get a lot ofmoney. But he seems pretty happy here
and so maybe he's willing to takea little bit, you know, less
to stay here than he could geton the open market. But they have
a window here. They certainly havea window here to be able to make
this not only one championship, butmultiple ones. And this is gonna sound
weird, but I actually think it'sgoing to be easier for them. You
(19:41):
know, the first time, Ithink is the hardest, getting over that
mental hurt, removing that mental block, knowing that you can do it right.
There's a difference between knowing the pathand walking the path. So I
think now that they've done that,I think it actually gets easier for them.
And you know what's the scary thingis, there's a couple of scary
things. Gary One, Tatum andBrown are still getting better. I don't
(20:02):
think they're finished products. And theother thing is they added kristavs Porzingis,
who averaged twenty points per game duringthe regular season for about four and a
half games of this playoff front.So the Celtics can be even better as
dominant as they were at sixteen andthree, they can be better. That
was not That was not the optimizedversion of the Celtics in the playoffs.
They are not a finished product.I agree, because I still believe the
(20:30):
perception that there are a three pointshooting team is a little overrated. I
know they take a lot of threes. I understand that, but I think
their strength is much greater than that. I think to say that they just
shoot threes is oversimplifying it, andI don't think it's giving them enough credit.
I think that when they went upby ten in Game five, it
(20:52):
was all to the hoop. Ithink that Tatum's better off going to the
hoop. I don't think they shootthrees great off the dribble. I think
they shoot threes much better off thecatch and when they penetrate and they kick
out, you know. So,I think that they're just much more of
a complete team than that. Andlike you just said, Chris, they're
even getting better because you could lookat this as great as they were,
(21:14):
you could look at this team thisyear and pick like two minutes of a
game, show that clip and yougo, oh my god, they're terrible.
I mean, they would have momentswhere I go, what are they
doing? But they were so goodin the other ones it didn't matter.
Yeah, there were certainly some mentallapses there. I mean, you know,
I hear you on the threes.Although I'll say that's a big part
of Joe Mizzula's yeah, and he'sreally into the matt. You know what
(21:40):
I would say on the threes isthis, they built a team that was
able to I don't want to sayprove his theory, but to make his
theory work. It's not the otherway around. In other words, the
theory didn't make the team. Theybuilt a team that was about eight deep
with guys that could hit threes.That makes his theory work. Otherwise,
I honestly don't really think it works. And last year, if you look
(22:03):
at Denver, they were fifteenth amongsixteen playoff teams and three point attempts and
they won. You know that workedfor that, right, But for this
particular team, yes, three pointattempt rate was very important to them.
But you know what, You're rightbecause Joe said multiple times during the year,
we need to have multiple identities.We need to have more than one
identity. And on nights when thethrees weren't falling, or during fans in
(22:25):
a game where the threes weren't falling, including in Game five where they had
a stretch where they missed ten straightthrees, they were able to go to
other things and that was something thatwas different from the past. And pass
over. Yeah, I mean Isee Holiday open under the hoop because he
sneaks by. I see Tatum goingto the basket. They can do more.
And to wrap it up, course, I just have to say,
not that I was crazy man inmy youth, but what NBA championship team
(22:52):
goes to Miami for twenty four hours? What are they doing back here already?
They should be flying in front morningbefore the parade? Yeah, I
don't know. Man. The longeryou stay in Miami, Atlanta, there's
certain New York, certain places LAand the NBA where you know, you
feel like you have an advantage becauseyou know the opponent's going to be out
(23:14):
all night. I think, ifyou you don't want to stay in South
Beach too long, what's what's theold thing? You know your parents would
tell you nothing good happens after midnight. I think nothing good happens in South
Beach on the second night. It'stime to go. You know you're probably
right about that. Are you gonnago? Are you going to cover the
parade in person? I don't thinkso. Normally news side for the Globe
cover. You are so lucky,I've done a million parades. Yeah,
(23:38):
watch it on TV, Man,I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I've gone
to them as a fan. Iwent to the first Patriots one in two
thousand and two, which was awesome. They're fun to go to as a
fan. I don't think i've evercovered one. If I did, i'd
probably sound a lot like Michael Felgerdid that one year. They said to
him, Oh, you mean whenwhen when Felger said to the twins what's
(23:59):
your birthday? And what's your birthday? Or something like that? It was.
It was a beaut all right,Gasper, you're the best. Thanks
for coming on all right, appreciateit, Gary, thanks for having me,
all right. Chris Gasper, BostonGlobe talking about the world champion Boston
Celtics. Coming up next. Aterrific movie that you are going to want
to see ephis and it's made bysome local guys. That's coming up on
WBC's Night Side.
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