November 17, 2025 • 38 mins
We kicked off the program with four news stories and different guests on the stories we think you need to know about!
Skyrocketing veterinary bills are hitting Massachusetts pet parents hard.
Guest: Dana Gerber – Boston Globe reporter
A Celtic Christmas brings holiday cheer to Massachusetts this December, featuring a line-up of world Irish dance champions to share the spirit of Christmas! Production by A Taste of Ireland (an Irish Music & Dance Group)
Guest: Cian Walsh – professional dancer in A Celtic Christmas
The history and evolution of Thanksgiving the holiday. Also throwing in some turkey cooking tips.
Guest: Marc Sheehan - food historian/chef/owner of Northern Spy in Canton
From 'Ghost’ to ‘Credit Thief’: 7 toxic bosses and how to deal with them
Guest: Duane Deason - business strategist and heads up The Efficacy Group
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
It's NIC's Eyes with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thank you very much, Madison. As we moved into a
full week of Nightside. My name is Dan Ray and
I am here every night this week, Monday through Friday.
I want to thank Bradley J. For sitting in for
me three nights last week. Appreciate that very much. Gave
me an opportunity to take a little ride and spend
a few days and see my one of my favorite, well,
(00:28):
my favorite, one of my two favorite dogs in the world, Mustard,
down in New York City. If you go to night
Side with Dan Ray our web page, you can see
a beautiful picture of Mustard and myself and you'll uh,
you'll see Mustard on a skyline that you that you
might actually recognize. We have watch to talk about tonight.
(00:49):
We will talk later about gun violence in Boston's Inner City,
tragic death of an eighteen year old woman, young woman
eighteen years old, Jakiah Lewis, who died over the week
when we talked with Reverend Kevin Peterson of the New
Democracy Coalition. We'll also talk about why President Trump has
(01:14):
apparently done a one hundred and eighty degree turn, a
one eighty degree turn on the whole question about the
Jeffrey Epstein emails. But we have four guests this hour,
all of whom are going to bring us interesting stories,
that is for sure. So let us begin with Dana
Gerber of the Boston Globe Boston Globe reporter, Hi, Dania,
(01:38):
Welcome to Nightside. How are you.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Hello, I'm doing well. How are you doing? Dan?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well? We have a lot of pet owners in this audience,
and this is a really, I think interesting issue. Soaring
veterinary costs pushed some pet owners to extremes. I read
the article. I don't understand why on us? Well, I
think you explained a couple of potential reasons why, But
(02:06):
why don't you set out the problems for us? Because
this is horrible. This is horrible for people who have
family pets. I end my show every night, All dogs,
all cats, all pets go to heaven. Boy. I'll tell
you these expenses, these vet expenses are through the roof.
Tell us how you came onto the story and what
you found out data.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, so, I mean it's definitely something that's top of
mind for a lot of Massachusetts pet parents, of which
there are quite a few, and you know, it's no
surprise to anyone. Pretty much everything is getting more expensive.
So some of it, you know, you can just chalk
up to general inflation, I can imagine. But another potential
factor in this is that a lot of veterinary practices
(02:50):
over the past several years, I would say, in the
past decade or so, have been bought up by private
equity firms, which at least Senator Warren for one, has
used to being the main driver or at least a
main driver of rising costs at veterinary clinics. And you're
absolutely right that it is really pushing a lot of
(03:11):
folks right.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Identify the identifying the problems, Dana. I just want to
know what can be done about it. I mean, we're
not going to have I assume veterinary cost control like
rent control. But yeah, you identified the problem. A Senator
Warren simply is reinforcing what would you have written.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
About, Well, she raised it a move prior to my story.
But in terms of solutions, I mean, yeah, it is
really hard. There isn't, like, you know, a lot of
the solutions for human centered problems that we would imagine.
But you know, some folks have found success with pet insurance,
so you know, not everyone, but some people have found
(03:51):
that to be really helpful. And then there are resources
around the city. If you live in Boston. I talk
about a service called the Wellness Wagon, which is a
mobile vet clinic run by the Animal Rescue League of
Boston that operates in certain neighborhoods that they do really
low cost exams. So there are there is help out there,
it's just your You're right that it is hard to find.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I guess in your article you talked about a lot
of venture capital companies coming in and buying up veterinary
clinics and their concern is making money. I looked at
the graphs in your story and they were very instructive
(04:36):
to me. As I was watching, you talked about this
couple actually are going to be going to visit relatives
in Mexico, but they're going to take advantage of the
I guess the veterinary prices in Mexico. It looks to
me like inflation in twenty twenty, according to your graph,
really went up between twenty twenty and twenty twenty two.
(05:00):
It started at about one point two three percent, and
by I guess the end of twenty twenty two is
up around eight percent, and it has come down. But
as inflation comes down, a lot of these companies choose
to ignore inflation and they'll they'll ride it up, but
they won't write it down. That's what Eograph says to me.
(05:21):
Am I misinterpreting that.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Oh, I mean, it's it's hard to know what the
driver is, whether it is you know, actual price pressures
or you know, just companies, you know, looking to increase profits.
That's really hard to know. I will say that the
other thing that happened between twenty twenty and twenty twenty
two was a pandemic in which a lot of folks
decided to adopt pets, and so that during the pandemic,
(05:48):
and I think that that's also another factor. It's, you know, again,
it's just really hard to know what's causation and what's correlation.
But I think a lot of things collided all at
once to create a really challenge financial environment for pet owners.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah, did you talk to and again, I'm trying to
look here. The date of your piece was earlier this
month and November seventh. I assume probably there weren't too
many veterinarians who wanted to talk to you about this story,
I would assume. But did you get much feedback from
you know, individual veterinarians justifying the increased costs.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yeah, I only talked to a couple. I spoke with
the Animal Rescue League of Boston, which is the operator
of the wellness wagon that I mentioned. And I also
talked to someone from the Angel Medical Center for Animals
in Jamaica Plane And yeah, I mean they're struggling with
you know, higher costs as well higher labor costs. There's
(06:49):
you know, just to keep veterinarians on staff is getting
more expensive obviously, you know, they have to deal with
all the same price pressures that we do so in
terms of just like materials and resources and stuff like that.
So no, it's it's you know, it's it's what's affecting
all of us. It's just interesting to see how it,
you know, shakes out so in such an exorbitant way
(07:10):
for vet care.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Well, one of the things that I learned along to
have we Go is that there are fewer veterinary schools,
at least in New England or at least in Massachusetts,
then there are medical schools. Uh. It is arguably if
you talk to some doctors that will tell you it's
almost tougher to become a veterinarian that it is to
become a doctor. Maybe we need to open up some
more veterinary schools, uh to uh, to increase the number
(07:34):
of providers. Did has a Senator Warren looked at anything
like that, to maybe cut some red tape and get
some more veterinary schools online.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Gosh, not that I know of, but uh, you know,
it's that's certainly an idea, you know, I think that
not to get too simplistic about it, but you know,
supply and demand, it's you know, if you have more veterinarians,
you know, logic says that that price would that would
help prices come down.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I think it is actually tougher as tough as it
is to get into a medical school because of the
paucity of veterinary schools. I think in New England, but
particularly in Massachusetts, from a statistical point of view, it's
tougher to become a veterinarian than it is to become
a doctor. And it's just there are fewer fewer veterinarians
than doctors. And I'll bet you that would go a
(08:22):
long way for a little bit of an easing on
the price pressure. Now, of course, that's not going to
happen for a few years until you get the schools
online and get people graduating and becoming veterinarians. But boy,
you've identified a problem, and it's a problem that a
lot of people are dealing with. And some of the
stories in your article in the Globe were really heart
(08:45):
wrenching stories because these are people. For many people, their
pets are like children. I believe that's what I feel.
And they care about the comfort and the health of
their pet as much as any parent cares about the
comfort or health of their child. So you've identified a
great issue, and I hope that you'll stick with it,
and I hope we can talk again about it, because
(09:07):
I think it's really fascinating. Dana Gerber of the Boston Globe,
thank you so much for love to see a follow
up story and how those folks this family does when
they go to Mexico over the Christmas holidays and take
advantage of going to visit relatives and take their pets
to some veterinarians in Mexico who apparently charge substantially less.
(09:28):
Was a great piece. I really enjoyed reading it. Thanks
so much, Dana, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Have a good night, Dan, you too.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Talk soon when we get back. We are going to
talk about a Celtic Christmas. I know that everybody likes
to think about, oh, you know, all sorts of Christmas
activities and traditions, and you think about the Nutcracker. Well
there's maybe another Christmas that you can think of as
(09:56):
a tradition. We will introduce you to a dancer with
a Celtic Christmas, which would be performing here in Boston.
They perform around the world, so we're lucky to have
them stick with us here on Nightside. My name's Dan Ray,
and you're listening to WVZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
It's night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Well, I'm delighted to welcome Keyan Walsh. Kean. The last
name is easy. I want to make sure I get
that first name correctly. Go right ahead, it is is
it Kean?
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Yeah, that's correct, it's Kean.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
You know what whereabouts in Ireland are you from? My
four bears come from a little town called Malaw, about
twenty miles north of Quark City on the Blackwater road.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
That's actually where my family's from. I'm from Cork myself.
I'm from a little town called Kinsale, but my my
my granny is from Mallow. So that's crazy small world.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well we're probably in some form of FACTI related. I
actually as a TV way over and did stories from
Mallow back when I was a little younger in the
nineteen eighties as a television reporter, met my relatives in
this town. It was a great town. My great grandmother
is interred at the Cemetery in Cork. She was born
(11:16):
ninety nine years before me. So you can kind of
figure the math if you will. So you are a
dancer with a Celtic Christmas and we have as you know,
the Boston Celtics with the Soft Sea, but it is
a Celtic Christmas that you dance for. Tell us about
the troop. It sounds like a really fabulous group of people,
(11:39):
talented people who have danced in many, many other productions
from Ireland.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. A Celtic Christmas is a live Irish
music and dance production and we've got some world class
musicians and dancers from all around the globe and it's
about two Starcroft lovers av and Ashen and we kind
of take the audience on a kind of journey and
we tell the story through the live Irish music and dance.
(12:08):
So it's really brilliant before Christmas, you know, to get
everyone into that kind of festive spirit, but also show
them a little bit of the Irish culture and the
Irish traditions of the music and the dance.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Now I know that you are going to be here.
I believe it's from December second to the fourteenth, So
there's some matinees, there's some evening shows. So you start
on Tuesday, December second, which would be the Tuesday after Thanksgiving,
and you run through Sunday, December fourteenth. But you're also
but you're also in other American cities, and you also
(12:42):
there's a tour. I'm not sure if it's this troupe
or if it's a different troupe that this year has
been in Australia and New Zealand. So you folks travel
the world, not just cut fly across the pond.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Yeah, exactly. So we've got a group right now that's
with myself over here in Wisconsin. We've been here for
about a week and we just came from New York City.
We were performing in the off Broadway, and then we
started in August we were in the UK and the
West End, and at the start of the year, yeah,
we've been in Australia, New Zealand, we were in Ireland.
(13:18):
So god, we've really been all over the world, just
kind of spreading that kind of love for Irish dance
and just putting on some brilliant performances for the American
crowds and crowds all over the world.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
When do you get a break or is it are
you working twelve months a year? Is there a break
and then you get back on tour? Tell us a
little bit about what life is like for a Celtic dancer.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Yeah, so, I mean we're pretty much on tour for
I would say maybe ninety percent of the year. We'll
run right up now until the twenty second of December,
and then we'll all get home just in time for
Christmas and we'll have, you know, maybe two or three
weeks off to rest after this five month, five month tour,
and then we'll be straight back at it in the
(14:05):
middle of January and well, you know, we'll probably run
right through twenty twenty six as also, yes, it's pretty grueling,
it's long days, you know, lots of shows in the week.
But I mean it's pretty special when you can travel
the world and do what you love no matter where
it is, and just put on you know, these these
(14:25):
big shows with a great bunch of people, world class,
world class dancers, world class musicians. So it's really something special.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well, the thing that's interesting is people some people realize this,
some people don't. But you all have to be really athletic.
I mean, you have to be in the same shape
in terms of body fat as a finely tuned athlete,
and I'm sure you deal with hamstring problems and twists
and turns and muscle pulls and and all of that.
(14:54):
I mean, it's it's a it's a physical performance that
you that you put on and people should not underestimate
the stress that you folks put on your bodies, just
as an athlete does.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Absolutely, we we love to say you kind of have
to have the strength and the power as a footballer,
and you also have to have the grace of like
a ballerina. So it's quite a quite a match of
quite a match of a lot of things. We're definitely
high it's high intensity. The shows are run like just
over two hours, so it's it's NonStop, your your your
(15:30):
high intensity for for all that time. So it's it's
pretty gruelly on the body. And the shows of course
are pretty grueling. But also I mean we're we do
a lot of traveling. Well, the days are long. You know,
you'll jump on the bus in the morning, you'll travel
to the next city, you'll put on a performance, and
then you'll do it all again the next day. So
it's pretty grueling. You there's definitely a lot of looking
(15:54):
after yourself, a lot of obviously eating well, looking after
your body, making sure you're warming up and cooling down,
because there's nothing worse than when you might not be
looking after yourself and you'll get a little niggle and
then you could be out for a couple of weeks
and there's nothing worse than that. But yeah, we're definitely
(16:15):
definitely professional athletes. It's definitely a sport.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
How big how large is the troop between the musicians
and the dancers, how big is the team we'll carry
the sports mataphor just a couple of more questions.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
So we've got a boys and a girls as part
of the troop. And then we've also got three musicians,
and we've got a crew of texts and lighting techs
and sound engineers and different things. So there's about a
group of twenty of us that will travel around. So
we're like one big family. We've we've been together for
you know, the last two or three years. There's new
(16:55):
people that have come into the show now in the
last few weeks as well. That's brilliant. It's always my
to have a a bet, you know, new blood there
and show them the rope of you know, what the
touring life is like. But yeah, we've got a great
bunch of right.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
One other question, following the athletic theme here, what's the
age span of the dancers? I mean, I can tell
you that you know that an American football player, American
hockey player, American baseball player, if they're really fortunate, they
peak normally thirty two thirty three, and then it's kind
of down. There are exceptions. There are some who play
(17:31):
into the late thirties, maybe even unless someone like Roger
clements into his forties. But and there are some who
who don't get past twenty five or whatever. What's the
professional life expectancy for one of the members of the
troupe approximately.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
I mean most answers that they would have been dancing
since they were very young, you know, maybe five or
six years old. You start off in the kind of
competitive scene of IRUs dancing, and you'll you'll dance in
that area from up until maybe you're about your late teens,
mid twenties, and the professional site can start from you know, seventeen,
eighteen years old, and it could run right up to
(18:12):
you know, your again, your mid thirties, late thirties. There's
definitely people that are dancing right up close to your forties.
So you know, it's kind of a thing that again,
if you could, if you look after yourself well, then
you can do it right up until you know, your
late thirties forties, if you if your body can hold on.
But it's definitely if the joints and the knees are
(18:32):
still I am still capable of it. You're there's people
here that you know that are well in that age
that are still tipping away.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I certainly hear you now, Kean. You will be here
December two to the fourteenth. You'll be performing here in Boston.
It's what it's called the Calderwood Pavilion, as I understand it,
and the easiest way that people can get tickets. The
(19:04):
Calderwood Pavilion is on Tremont Street, five point twenty seven
Tremont Street in Boston South End. Most of my listeners,
that's probably means nothing to you, but most of my
listeners that gives them an idea. But the most important
thing is the website. People can go to Boston theater
scene dot com and that's Boston Theater with spelled t
(19:26):
h e a t r E for theater scene dot
com and you can see a really good layout of
the times and the tickets and the prices. And it's
something that I suspect I'm going to make an effort
to go to one of your performances because I am
an Irish citizen as well as a US citizen. I
got my citizenship through my grandfather, and I enjoy and
(19:50):
I know I'll enjoy a Celtic Christmas by a taste
of Ireland. So welcome to Boston. Welcome when you get here,
and next time you go through Mallow on the Blackwater,
have a pint for me.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
Okay, absolutely, I will do.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Thank you so much, I really enjoyed this conversation. Hope
to see you in Boston.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
Thank you, yeah, brilliant. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Absolutely my pleasure. All right, that was fun for me.
I did not know that there was a little little
connection there with Mala, but that's okay, that's the way
it works. We get up, we're gonna we're going to
pivot from a Christmas conversation to talk about Thanksgiving, about
the history of Thanksgiving and how it's evolved over time.
(20:37):
We'll be talking with Mark she and he's a food historian,
chef and owner of Northern Spy in Canton. Coming right
back on night Side, right after the news at the
bottom of the air we are a couple of minutes.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Late night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Well, Christmas is still, you know, about five weeks away.
Thanks thank Giving, however is next week. It's ten days away,
if I'm not mistaken. And we're going to talk with
Mark Sheen. Mark Sheen the owner, a food historian, a chef,
and the owner of Northern Spy in Canton. That's an
interesting name for a restaurant. Mark Sheen, Welcome to Night Side.
(21:17):
How are you.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
I'm good?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Thanks for having me what the Northern Spy in Canton.
Explain that name to me. There must be a backstory.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
Yeah, So we're located at the Paul Revere Heritage Site.
We're right in the rolling coppermill that Paul Revere and
his son founded in eighteen oh one and built the
building that houses Northern Spy in eighteen fifty one. And
when we were, you know, thinking of a name for
the restaurant that was inspired by you know, the site
(21:51):
and the style of food we cook, which is New
England food. You know, we source a lot of product locally.
One there's this great apple variety from the early nineteenth
century called Northern Spy apples, which are this great all
purpose apple, great for baking, great for eating out a
hand where the seed bridle came from the northeast. But also,
(22:12):
you know, if you think about Paul Revere's contribution during
the Revolution and leading up to it, he basically was
a spy and from New England. And then also the
way that he and his son learned how to roll
copper as he sent his son to England for a
little industrial espionage and fight on the British and learned
(22:33):
how to roll copper and that was how our mill
came to be, so that that's where the name came from.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
That's a great backstory. I'm glad I asked the question.
So the history and revolution of Thanksgiving. We know what
it's like today with families flying in airplanes halfway across
the country or driving over the river and through the
woods to Grandma's house. But it wasn't necessarily all that
way it started, I guess, And what these sixteen twenties
(23:01):
when the Pilgrims arrived in Plymouth, how has it evolved
over the last Well, we're now talking about four hundred years.
Speaker 6 (23:12):
Well, and honestly, the original story of how it came
to be most likely as inaccurate that there was a
Thanksgiving that took place in Plymouth. It might have taken
place in sixteen twenty one, It could have taken place
in sixteen twenty three, could have even taken place in
Boston in sixteen thirty. Because at no point did anyone
(23:36):
really say this was the first Thanksgiving. That didn't come
about until eighteen forty one when someone first identified Thanksgiving
that occurred in Plymouth Colony as being the first one.
But there's a claim to the original Thanksgiving from an
area of Virginia. There's a claim to the first Thanksgiving
(23:59):
from apart the part of Florida. But really it only had.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
To dismiss Texas and Florida as far as I'm gon sarted.
I mean, maybe we can argue with Virginia and Jamestown,
but go ahead, you're not.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
You know, as you know, his history is kind of
written by the victors. And that's essentially what happened is
that the Thanksgiving holidays we know it really didn't come
to be until eighteen sixty three when Sarah Josie Hale,
who was a very influential writer. She was born in
(24:37):
New Hampshire. She sort of made her career in Boston
and later Philadelphia. She wrote, Mary had a little lamb.
She had been going on this letter writing campaign for
forty years, essentially trying to make what was a New
England tradition that some other states practice, which was Thanksgiving,
and she was trying to turn it into a federal holiday.
(25:00):
And it wasn't until the country sort of fractured by
the Civil War that Abraham Lincoln was the first president
who kind of she got his ear and he listened
and he felt like it would be a way to
begin the healing process. And I think you know, there
was this period called the Colonial Revival that really influenced
(25:22):
New England food in American culture and New England culture,
and Thanksgiving was a big part of that. That New
England was looked at as the oldest and the most
influential part of the country. And it occurred right after
the Civil War, and I think that really played a
part why those southern claims to the holiday were sort
of pushed aside, and the cederal holiday was the way
(25:44):
that it was being celebrated in New England.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah. The other thing if Lincoln was talking about bringing
the country who was at that point fractured by a
civil war. The last few Thanksgivings that we've talked about
here in the radio, a lot of it is how
do you get along with the relatives who see things
dramatic differently politically and uh so we're kind of back
to where it all started. I think, where everybody should
(26:07):
be able to gather around a meal and put their
political disagreements aside and be thankful for everything that we have,
uh in in this country. Uh And yeah, I just
think it's ironic when when you when you think about it,
that we're kind of back to where we started with
the depth. I mean, we don't have a civil war, hopefully,
(26:29):
but it's it's some of the Thanksgivings that I've heard
about from my listeners have not been the most civil
events and in recent in recent years.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
You know what, I think. You know, there's a phrase
that that history doesn't repeat itself, but it oftentimes rhymes yes.
And I think that's something that that when you look at,
is the Thanksgiving story historically accurate. It's certainly not, or
at least we don't have enough documentation. But I think
(27:03):
the one thing that we've gotten right and we could
really take some inspiration from, is that the concept of
a thanksgiving it came from pured and it was a
way to celebrate what you had, and it was a
way to sort of acknowledge that something good had happened
(27:23):
in the last year or in you know, that a
war had ended, or that a drought had ended, or
there was the you know, you had a great harvest,
and that that then triggered we should all gather. We
should you know, whatever differences we have we can put aside.
And the way that that was celebrated was with an
abundance of food and sitting down and taking a time
(27:46):
to rest and be together. And I think if that's
one part of it that that we got right.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
It's that.
Speaker 6 (27:52):
And you know, the football fan and you would say,
you know, having a good play to games.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
On My attitude has always been there's like five apps. Family, faith, football, fun,
and friendship. Those those that's what Thanksgiving is supposed to
be all about. Well, thanks for the for the perspective. Mark,
are you working Thanksgiving as your your your restaurant open
(28:18):
serving Thanksgiving dinners? Or how are you closed down for the.
Speaker 6 (28:22):
Day we're closed? I've actually, you know, I've been working
in restaurants now for over twenty years and I've been
lucky enough that I've never had to work on Thanksgiving,
And ever since I started owning my own restaurants, that's
been a rule that you know, will be closed on
Thanksgiving Day. We're closed during the daytime on Friday, so
(28:44):
everyone can kind of get over there their food hangover,
and but we're doing sort of like Thanksgiving pre orders.
You can order pies or we make our ound Parker
House roles. You can order sides from us we're leaving
the turkey to our guest, but we're even offering things
like a package for build your own sandwich where you
(29:04):
can get bread and bacon and iola and stuff from us.
So that's sort of one way that you can still
have Northern Spy at your Thanksgiving, even though we'll be
at home with our family celebrated.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
If I was living down in the Canton area, I'd
be lining up at the door on Wednesday morning to
purchase some goodies. Thanks. Thanks Mark, you had me at
Parker House rolls. Thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
Well, they're not going anywhere, so next time you make
it down we'll have them for it.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Thanks Mark. We'll talk again, Thank you very much when
we get back. We're going to talk about seven toxic bosses. No,
not the bosses that you've worked for in your career,
maybe some of them from ghosts to credit thief. Seven
toxic bosses and how to deal with them. It doesn't
sound to me like Mark was Mark Sheen is a
toxic boss. Sounds like a great guy to work for.
(29:56):
But we're going to talk with a business strategist who
heads the Ethic See group. Sounds like a good organization.
Back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Right after this, you're on Night Side with Dan Ray
on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
We're joined by Dwayne Deson. He's a business strategist and
heads up a group called the Efficacy Group. That's a
great name for a group, Dwayne, how are you tonight
the Efficacy Group?
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Well, thank you, Dan, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
So you're going to talk about an article that was
written by someone named Anker Wurku. I'm not familiar with that.
I think enough close enough, give it me right, I'll do,
I'll listen. I'll get it rather get it correct away.
What is it?
Speaker 4 (30:39):
I wouldn't have done it any better?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Okay. He reveals seven toxic bosses who you will meet
in your career, who you might meet in your career,
and how to deal with them. An article out of
the Economic Time. Just like to give credit here, so
the seven toxic bosses and all of us can identify.
Some of them seem to sort of overlap one. I
read the article. To be honest with you, none of
(31:03):
these people should be bosses, from ghost to credit thief,
with all delved people like that, I guess. Tell us
about some of these characteristics.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Well, I think that You're exactly right, and that usually
it's not one trait that it's actually several traits that
kind of combine and make it even worse than it
would otherwise be. And one of the issues that companies
really need to do is they're supposed to make their
environment attractive so that they get the best talent. And
if you get the best talent, you don't have to
pay a premium for them to come work for you.
(31:34):
And if you and if you have terrible bosses, you're
not going to make your organization attractive and lure the
best talent. So it's it ripples you out an organization.
So I think whether you're a whether you're working for
a toxic boss, whether you're you know a toxic boss,
or maybe even have a few listeners that are those
toxic bosses, it matters to everyone.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Well just to hit some of them. Here again, this
are article by anchor Mariku uh The ghost invisible and
support but visible and blame. Yeah, I get it. Yeah,
I'd like to use the metaphor of a baseball manager
that I made all the right moves, but that pitchure
hung the curveball. That's why we lost.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
You're you're Under that scenario, you're you're kind of on
your own and you need to make sure you document
what you need, make sure you document your your progress,
and then try to find support from your team members
and see if if you can support each other because
you're not getting support from your boss.
Speaker 7 (32:35):
What do you do when you when you go to
a company, you you you sign on with someone, and
again carrying the metaphor of sports, uh, you could you
could be a great athlete, and you sign with the
wrong team, and all of a sudden you realize, oh, man,
I was I was happy with that old team.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Now I'm with it. What do you do? I mean,
do you, as they say, try to build some alliances
with other people you don't even know amongst the group
who the boss might be controlling and might have might
be a spy. I mean, it can get it can
get pretty machiavellian. I think it.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Is difficult because really, in most average interview scenarios, you
have maybe an hour or two at best with the
person you're gonna end up working to where it's and
it's and it's a situation where it's not that different
from a marriage. You're gonna spend a lot of time
with that individual and and have to have a good
relationship with that that person, and so two hours isn't
really much time to make a very very important decision.
(33:34):
And if you can, and you always try to, you know,
check references or see if you find somebody that knows
somebody that works with that individual. But once you start
there and if if it's not what you expected, you
can't just leave. So you you have to find a
way to shine regardless. And it a little bit depends
on what trade it is and that that's interfering here
(33:56):
or causing the problem, which is how you should handle it.
So some of the traits, like if they're a micromanager
and we all know what that is, those are traits
that sometimes you can talk to the individual and say, look,
I think maybe I haven't gained your confidence yet, and
how I work how could I better gain your confidence?
(34:17):
And a lot of times micromanagers almost appreciate that because
they're overworking themselves, because they're busy micromanaging everybody, and so
they're looking for ways to lessen that if they can't,
and if you can find a way to help them,
they appreciate that. And other situations like some of the
other ones you mentioned where they're credit thieves or they
live in the blame game and those type of things
(34:37):
that they manipulate you. Those are much harder ones to
deal with, and you have to find a way to
shine and just believe in yourself and not let their
toxic environment create doubt in yourself.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
And the other problem is, particularly if you're on a
career path, you don't want to have you know, seven
jobs in your first four years in your career, on
your career on your resume because no matter what, that's
going to make you look peripatetic at best and somebody
who's not willing to stick in a job at worst.
I mean, yeah, move in every six months. Uh. That
(35:13):
that's a that's a poison pill in my opinion, on
a resume. So tell us about your company, the Efficacy Group.
What tell us a little bit more about what you
obviously a commenting for us tonight, you're a business strategist.
But what what does your group offer to my listeners?
(35:36):
What are you do you deal just with institutions, with companies,
with with corporations and businesses, or do you do you
help counsel people who find themselves in these situations.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
Well, it's interesting that I got into this and became,
I guess, a facto expert in this subject because my
background is cost management, and I wrote a book about
cost management and how to help companies be more efficient
and create a successful and buy fairman. And in that effort,
I started listening out the traits and I do this
in my book that are going to hurt a company.
(36:09):
And it was interesting as I realized many of those
same traits impact the company in many ways they wouldn't like.
So if somebody as a manipulator, as we talked about
one of the toxic bosses, they're not only manipulating their employees,
they're manipulating the organization in many ways, and they're toxic
for the overall organization just as they're toxic for the employee.
(36:29):
So what I try to do is try to help
companies recognize what challenges they have and how to make
their company. I even refer to this way, how to
make their company attractive, how to make it a place
where people want to work. If you want to save
money as an organization, one of the best ways to
do that is not to have to overpay your employees
(36:49):
to come to work. Because no one wants to work
there absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
What was the name of the book in case people
would like to perhaps read.
Speaker 5 (36:56):
It operationally stealth as in spelts and lean.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
And as V E Lte.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
If I'm not mistaken, I appreciate that a lot of
people can get that.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I was a spelling bee champion. Look, I really enjoyed
the conversation, the good sense of humor, but it's a
serious topic. And I thank you for being with us tonight,
Dayne and hopefully get you back at some point. This
was a fun conversation. Thank you much.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Well we get back. We're gonna talk about an increasing
murder rate in Boston. I mean, it's not off the charts,
but it's more than it was a year ago, and
a lot of it is happening in one major area
in Boston. We're gonna talk with Reverend Kevin Peterson of
the New Democracy Coalition. There's some tough stories we're about
to talk with you about coming up right after the
(37:46):
nine o'clock news, and I want to hear from you
whether you live in one of these areas or you
live in the relative security of maybe some of the
other communities and think for a moment what it would
be like in your community if you were dealing with
gunfire every night and street murders coming back on nightside
It's NIC's Eyes with Dan Ray. I'm telling you easy
Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (00:06):
Thank you very much, Madison. As we moved into a
full week of Nightside. My name is Dan Ray and
I am here every night this week, Monday through Friday.
I want to thank Bradley J. For sitting in for
me three nights last week. Appreciate that very much. Gave
me an opportunity to take a little ride and spend
a few days and see my one of my favorite, well,
(00:28):
my favorite, one of my two favorite dogs in the world, Mustard,
down in New York City. If you go to night
Side with Dan Ray our web page, you can see
a beautiful picture of Mustard and myself and you'll uh,
you'll see Mustard on a skyline that you that you
might actually recognize. We have watch to talk about tonight.
(00:49):
We will talk later about gun violence in Boston's Inner City,
tragic death of an eighteen year old woman, young woman
eighteen years old, Jakiah Lewis, who died over the week
when we talked with Reverend Kevin Peterson of the New
Democracy Coalition. We'll also talk about why President Trump has
(01:14):
apparently done a one hundred and eighty degree turn, a
one eighty degree turn on the whole question about the
Jeffrey Epstein emails. But we have four guests this hour,
all of whom are going to bring us interesting stories,
that is for sure. So let us begin with Dana
Gerber of the Boston Globe Boston Globe reporter, Hi, Dania,
(01:38):
Welcome to Nightside. How are you.
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Hello, I'm doing well. How are you doing? Dan?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well? We have a lot of pet owners in this audience,
and this is a really, I think interesting issue. Soaring
veterinary costs pushed some pet owners to extremes. I read
the article. I don't understand why on us? Well, I
think you explained a couple of potential reasons why, But
(02:06):
why don't you set out the problems for us? Because
this is horrible. This is horrible for people who have
family pets. I end my show every night, All dogs,
all cats, all pets go to heaven. Boy. I'll tell
you these expenses, these vet expenses are through the roof.
Tell us how you came onto the story and what
you found out data.
Speaker 3 (02:27):
Yeah, so, I mean it's definitely something that's top of
mind for a lot of Massachusetts pet parents, of which
there are quite a few, and you know, it's no
surprise to anyone. Pretty much everything is getting more expensive.
So some of it, you know, you can just chalk
up to general inflation, I can imagine. But another potential
factor in this is that a lot of veterinary practices
(02:50):
over the past several years, I would say, in the
past decade or so, have been bought up by private
equity firms, which at least Senator Warren for one, has
used to being the main driver or at least a
main driver of rising costs at veterinary clinics. And you're
absolutely right that it is really pushing a lot of
(03:11):
folks right.
Speaker 2 (03:12):
Identify the identifying the problems, Dana. I just want to
know what can be done about it. I mean, we're
not going to have I assume veterinary cost control like
rent control. But yeah, you identified the problem. A Senator
Warren simply is reinforcing what would you have written.
Speaker 3 (03:31):
About, Well, she raised it a move prior to my story.
But in terms of solutions, I mean, yeah, it is
really hard. There isn't, like, you know, a lot of
the solutions for human centered problems that we would imagine.
But you know, some folks have found success with pet insurance,
so you know, not everyone, but some people have found
(03:51):
that to be really helpful. And then there are resources
around the city. If you live in Boston. I talk
about a service called the Wellness Wagon, which is a
mobile vet clinic run by the Animal Rescue League of
Boston that operates in certain neighborhoods that they do really
low cost exams. So there are there is help out there,
it's just your You're right that it is hard to find.
Speaker 2 (04:12):
I guess in your article you talked about a lot
of venture capital companies coming in and buying up veterinary
clinics and their concern is making money. I looked at
the graphs in your story and they were very instructive
(04:36):
to me. As I was watching, you talked about this
couple actually are going to be going to visit relatives
in Mexico, but they're going to take advantage of the
I guess the veterinary prices in Mexico. It looks to
me like inflation in twenty twenty, according to your graph,
really went up between twenty twenty and twenty twenty two.
(05:00):
It started at about one point two three percent, and
by I guess the end of twenty twenty two is
up around eight percent, and it has come down. But
as inflation comes down, a lot of these companies choose
to ignore inflation and they'll they'll ride it up, but
they won't write it down. That's what Eograph says to me.
(05:21):
Am I misinterpreting that.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
Oh, I mean, it's it's hard to know what the
driver is, whether it is you know, actual price pressures
or you know, just companies, you know, looking to increase profits.
That's really hard to know. I will say that the
other thing that happened between twenty twenty and twenty twenty
two was a pandemic in which a lot of folks
decided to adopt pets, and so that during the pandemic,
(05:48):
and I think that that's also another factor. It's, you know, again,
it's just really hard to know what's causation and what's correlation.
But I think a lot of things collided all at
once to create a really challenge financial environment for pet owners.
Speaker 2 (06:02):
Yeah, did you talk to and again, I'm trying to
look here. The date of your piece was earlier this
month and November seventh. I assume probably there weren't too
many veterinarians who wanted to talk to you about this story,
I would assume. But did you get much feedback from
you know, individual veterinarians justifying the increased costs.
Speaker 3 (06:26):
Yeah, I only talked to a couple. I spoke with
the Animal Rescue League of Boston, which is the operator
of the wellness wagon that I mentioned. And I also
talked to someone from the Angel Medical Center for Animals
in Jamaica Plane And yeah, I mean they're struggling with
you know, higher costs as well higher labor costs. There's
(06:49):
you know, just to keep veterinarians on staff is getting
more expensive obviously, you know, they have to deal with
all the same price pressures that we do so in
terms of just like materials and resources and stuff like that.
So no, it's it's you know, it's it's what's affecting
all of us. It's just interesting to see how it,
you know, shakes out so in such an exorbitant way
(07:10):
for vet care.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
Well, one of the things that I learned along to
have we Go is that there are fewer veterinary schools,
at least in New England or at least in Massachusetts,
then there are medical schools. Uh. It is arguably if
you talk to some doctors that will tell you it's
almost tougher to become a veterinarian that it is to
become a doctor. Maybe we need to open up some
more veterinary schools, uh to uh, to increase the number
(07:34):
of providers. Did has a Senator Warren looked at anything
like that, to maybe cut some red tape and get
some more veterinary schools online.
Speaker 3 (07:44):
Gosh, not that I know of, but uh, you know,
it's that's certainly an idea, you know, I think that
not to get too simplistic about it, but you know,
supply and demand, it's you know, if you have more veterinarians,
you know, logic says that that price would that would
help prices come down.
Speaker 2 (08:02):
I think it is actually tougher as tough as it
is to get into a medical school because of the
paucity of veterinary schools. I think in New England, but
particularly in Massachusetts, from a statistical point of view, it's
tougher to become a veterinarian than it is to become
a doctor. And it's just there are fewer fewer veterinarians
than doctors. And I'll bet you that would go a
(08:22):
long way for a little bit of an easing on
the price pressure. Now, of course, that's not going to
happen for a few years until you get the schools
online and get people graduating and becoming veterinarians. But boy,
you've identified a problem, and it's a problem that a
lot of people are dealing with. And some of the
stories in your article in the Globe were really heart
(08:45):
wrenching stories because these are people. For many people, their
pets are like children. I believe that's what I feel.
And they care about the comfort and the health of
their pet as much as any parent cares about the
comfort or health of their child. So you've identified a
great issue, and I hope that you'll stick with it,
and I hope we can talk again about it, because
(09:07):
I think it's really fascinating. Dana Gerber of the Boston Globe,
thank you so much for love to see a follow
up story and how those folks this family does when
they go to Mexico over the Christmas holidays and take
advantage of going to visit relatives and take their pets
to some veterinarians in Mexico who apparently charge substantially less.
(09:28):
Was a great piece. I really enjoyed reading it. Thanks
so much, Dana, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 4 (09:33):
Have a good night, Dan, you too.
Speaker 2 (09:35):
Talk soon when we get back. We are going to
talk about a Celtic Christmas. I know that everybody likes
to think about, oh, you know, all sorts of Christmas
activities and traditions, and you think about the Nutcracker. Well
there's maybe another Christmas that you can think of as
(09:56):
a tradition. We will introduce you to a dancer with
a Celtic Christmas, which would be performing here in Boston.
They perform around the world, so we're lucky to have
them stick with us here on Nightside. My name's Dan Ray,
and you're listening to WVZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 1 (10:12):
It's night Side with Dan Ray on w Boston's news Radio.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Well, I'm delighted to welcome Keyan Walsh. Kean. The last
name is easy. I want to make sure I get
that first name correctly. Go right ahead, it is is
it Kean?
Speaker 5 (10:28):
Yeah, that's correct, it's Kean.
Speaker 2 (10:30):
You know what whereabouts in Ireland are you from? My
four bears come from a little town called Malaw, about
twenty miles north of Quark City on the Blackwater road.
Speaker 5 (10:40):
That's actually where my family's from. I'm from Cork myself.
I'm from a little town called Kinsale, but my my
my granny is from Mallow. So that's crazy small world.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well we're probably in some form of FACTI related. I
actually as a TV way over and did stories from
Mallow back when I was a little younger in the
nineteen eighties as a television reporter, met my relatives in
this town. It was a great town. My great grandmother
is interred at the Cemetery in Cork. She was born
(11:16):
ninety nine years before me. So you can kind of
figure the math if you will. So you are a
dancer with a Celtic Christmas and we have as you know,
the Boston Celtics with the Soft Sea, but it is
a Celtic Christmas that you dance for. Tell us about
the troop. It sounds like a really fabulous group of people,
(11:39):
talented people who have danced in many, many other productions
from Ireland.
Speaker 5 (11:46):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. A Celtic Christmas is a live Irish
music and dance production and we've got some world class
musicians and dancers from all around the globe and it's
about two Starcroft lovers av and Ashen and we kind
of take the audience on a kind of journey and
we tell the story through the live Irish music and dance.
(12:08):
So it's really brilliant before Christmas, you know, to get
everyone into that kind of festive spirit, but also show
them a little bit of the Irish culture and the
Irish traditions of the music and the dance.
Speaker 2 (12:20):
Now I know that you are going to be here.
I believe it's from December second to the fourteenth, So
there's some matinees, there's some evening shows. So you start
on Tuesday, December second, which would be the Tuesday after Thanksgiving,
and you run through Sunday, December fourteenth. But you're also
but you're also in other American cities, and you also
(12:42):
there's a tour. I'm not sure if it's this troupe
or if it's a different troupe that this year has
been in Australia and New Zealand. So you folks travel
the world, not just cut fly across the pond.
Speaker 5 (12:56):
Yeah, exactly. So we've got a group right now that's
with myself over here in Wisconsin. We've been here for
about a week and we just came from New York City.
We were performing in the off Broadway, and then we
started in August we were in the UK and the
West End, and at the start of the year, yeah,
we've been in Australia, New Zealand, we were in Ireland.
(13:18):
So god, we've really been all over the world, just
kind of spreading that kind of love for Irish dance
and just putting on some brilliant performances for the American
crowds and crowds all over the world.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
When do you get a break or is it are
you working twelve months a year? Is there a break
and then you get back on tour? Tell us a
little bit about what life is like for a Celtic dancer.
Speaker 5 (13:44):
Yeah, so, I mean we're pretty much on tour for
I would say maybe ninety percent of the year. We'll
run right up now until the twenty second of December,
and then we'll all get home just in time for
Christmas and we'll have, you know, maybe two or three
weeks off to rest after this five month, five month tour,
and then we'll be straight back at it in the
(14:05):
middle of January and well, you know, we'll probably run
right through twenty twenty six as also, yes, it's pretty grueling,
it's long days, you know, lots of shows in the week.
But I mean it's pretty special when you can travel
the world and do what you love no matter where
it is, and just put on you know, these these
(14:25):
big shows with a great bunch of people, world class,
world class dancers, world class musicians. So it's really something special.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
Well, the thing that's interesting is people some people realize this,
some people don't. But you all have to be really athletic.
I mean, you have to be in the same shape
in terms of body fat as a finely tuned athlete,
and I'm sure you deal with hamstring problems and twists
and turns and muscle pulls and and all of that.
(14:54):
I mean, it's it's a it's a physical performance that
you that you put on and people should not underestimate
the stress that you folks put on your bodies, just
as an athlete does.
Speaker 4 (15:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 5 (15:08):
Absolutely, we we love to say you kind of have
to have the strength and the power as a footballer,
and you also have to have the grace of like
a ballerina. So it's quite a quite a match of
quite a match of a lot of things. We're definitely
high it's high intensity. The shows are run like just
over two hours, so it's it's NonStop, your your your
(15:30):
high intensity for for all that time. So it's it's
pretty gruelly on the body. And the shows of course
are pretty grueling. But also I mean we're we do
a lot of traveling. Well, the days are long. You know,
you'll jump on the bus in the morning, you'll travel
to the next city, you'll put on a performance, and
then you'll do it all again the next day. So
it's pretty grueling. You there's definitely a lot of looking
(15:54):
after yourself, a lot of obviously eating well, looking after
your body, making sure you're warming up and cooling down,
because there's nothing worse than when you might not be
looking after yourself and you'll get a little niggle and
then you could be out for a couple of weeks
and there's nothing worse than that. But yeah, we're definitely
(16:15):
definitely professional athletes. It's definitely a sport.
Speaker 2 (16:22):
How big how large is the troop between the musicians
and the dancers, how big is the team we'll carry
the sports mataphor just a couple of more questions.
Speaker 5 (16:33):
So we've got a boys and a girls as part
of the troop. And then we've also got three musicians,
and we've got a crew of texts and lighting techs
and sound engineers and different things. So there's about a
group of twenty of us that will travel around. So
we're like one big family. We've we've been together for
you know, the last two or three years. There's new
(16:55):
people that have come into the show now in the
last few weeks as well. That's brilliant. It's always my
to have a a bet, you know, new blood there
and show them the rope of you know, what the
touring life is like. But yeah, we've got a great
bunch of right.
Speaker 2 (17:10):
One other question, following the athletic theme here, what's the
age span of the dancers? I mean, I can tell
you that you know that an American football player, American
hockey player, American baseball player, if they're really fortunate, they
peak normally thirty two thirty three, and then it's kind
of down. There are exceptions. There are some who play
(17:31):
into the late thirties, maybe even unless someone like Roger
clements into his forties. But and there are some who
who don't get past twenty five or whatever. What's the
professional life expectancy for one of the members of the
troupe approximately.
Speaker 5 (17:49):
I mean most answers that they would have been dancing
since they were very young, you know, maybe five or
six years old. You start off in the kind of
competitive scene of IRUs dancing, and you'll you'll dance in
that area from up until maybe you're about your late teens,
mid twenties, and the professional site can start from you know, seventeen,
eighteen years old, and it could run right up to
(18:12):
you know, your again, your mid thirties, late thirties. There's
definitely people that are dancing right up close to your forties.
So you know, it's kind of a thing that again,
if you could, if you look after yourself well, then
you can do it right up until you know, your
late thirties forties, if you if your body can hold on.
But it's definitely if the joints and the knees are
(18:32):
still I am still capable of it. You're there's people
here that you know that are well in that age
that are still tipping away.
Speaker 2 (18:41):
I certainly hear you now, Kean. You will be here
December two to the fourteenth. You'll be performing here in Boston.
It's what it's called the Calderwood Pavilion, as I understand it,
and the easiest way that people can get tickets. The
(19:04):
Calderwood Pavilion is on Tremont Street, five point twenty seven
Tremont Street in Boston South End. Most of my listeners,
that's probably means nothing to you, but most of my
listeners that gives them an idea. But the most important
thing is the website. People can go to Boston theater
scene dot com and that's Boston Theater with spelled t
(19:26):
h e a t r E for theater scene dot
com and you can see a really good layout of
the times and the tickets and the prices. And it's
something that I suspect I'm going to make an effort
to go to one of your performances because I am
an Irish citizen as well as a US citizen. I
got my citizenship through my grandfather, and I enjoy and
(19:50):
I know I'll enjoy a Celtic Christmas by a taste
of Ireland. So welcome to Boston. Welcome when you get here,
and next time you go through Mallow on the Blackwater,
have a pint for me.
Speaker 5 (20:04):
Okay, absolutely, I will do.
Speaker 2 (20:08):
Thank you so much, I really enjoyed this conversation. Hope
to see you in Boston.
Speaker 5 (20:13):
Thank you, yeah, brilliant. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (20:15):
Absolutely my pleasure. All right, that was fun for me.
I did not know that there was a little little
connection there with Mala, but that's okay, that's the way
it works. We get up, we're gonna we're going to
pivot from a Christmas conversation to talk about Thanksgiving, about
the history of Thanksgiving and how it's evolved over time.
(20:37):
We'll be talking with Mark she and he's a food historian,
chef and owner of Northern Spy in Canton. Coming right
back on night Side, right after the news at the
bottom of the air we are a couple of minutes.
Speaker 1 (20:47):
Late night Side with Dan Ray. I'm Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (20:55):
Well, Christmas is still, you know, about five weeks away.
Thanks thank Giving, however is next week. It's ten days away,
if I'm not mistaken. And we're going to talk with
Mark Sheen. Mark Sheen the owner, a food historian, a chef,
and the owner of Northern Spy in Canton. That's an
interesting name for a restaurant. Mark Sheen, Welcome to Night Side.
(21:17):
How are you.
Speaker 6 (21:19):
I'm good?
Speaker 2 (21:19):
Thanks for having me what the Northern Spy in Canton.
Explain that name to me. There must be a backstory.
Speaker 6 (21:30):
Yeah, So we're located at the Paul Revere Heritage Site.
We're right in the rolling coppermill that Paul Revere and
his son founded in eighteen oh one and built the
building that houses Northern Spy in eighteen fifty one. And
when we were, you know, thinking of a name for
the restaurant that was inspired by you know, the site
(21:51):
and the style of food we cook, which is New
England food. You know, we source a lot of product locally.
One there's this great apple variety from the early nineteenth
century called Northern Spy apples, which are this great all
purpose apple, great for baking, great for eating out a
hand where the seed bridle came from the northeast. But also,
(22:12):
you know, if you think about Paul Revere's contribution during
the Revolution and leading up to it, he basically was
a spy and from New England. And then also the
way that he and his son learned how to roll
copper as he sent his son to England for a
little industrial espionage and fight on the British and learned
(22:33):
how to roll copper and that was how our mill
came to be, so that that's where the name came from.
Speaker 2 (22:39):
That's a great backstory. I'm glad I asked the question.
So the history and revolution of Thanksgiving. We know what
it's like today with families flying in airplanes halfway across
the country or driving over the river and through the
woods to Grandma's house. But it wasn't necessarily all that
way it started, I guess, And what these sixteen twenties
(23:01):
when the Pilgrims arrived in Plymouth, how has it evolved
over the last Well, we're now talking about four hundred years.
Speaker 6 (23:12):
Well, and honestly, the original story of how it came
to be most likely as inaccurate that there was a
Thanksgiving that took place in Plymouth. It might have taken
place in sixteen twenty one, It could have taken place
in sixteen twenty three, could have even taken place in
Boston in sixteen thirty. Because at no point did anyone
(23:36):
really say this was the first Thanksgiving. That didn't come
about until eighteen forty one when someone first identified Thanksgiving
that occurred in Plymouth Colony as being the first one.
But there's a claim to the original Thanksgiving from an
area of Virginia. There's a claim to the first Thanksgiving
(23:59):
from apart the part of Florida. But really it only had.
Speaker 2 (24:04):
To dismiss Texas and Florida as far as I'm gon sarted.
I mean, maybe we can argue with Virginia and Jamestown,
but go ahead, you're not.
Speaker 6 (24:15):
You know, as you know, his history is kind of
written by the victors. And that's essentially what happened is
that the Thanksgiving holidays we know it really didn't come
to be until eighteen sixty three when Sarah Josie Hale,
who was a very influential writer. She was born in
(24:37):
New Hampshire. She sort of made her career in Boston
and later Philadelphia. She wrote, Mary had a little lamb.
She had been going on this letter writing campaign for
forty years, essentially trying to make what was a New
England tradition that some other states practice, which was Thanksgiving,
and she was trying to turn it into a federal holiday.
(25:00):
And it wasn't until the country sort of fractured by
the Civil War that Abraham Lincoln was the first president
who kind of she got his ear and he listened
and he felt like it would be a way to
begin the healing process. And I think you know, there
was this period called the Colonial Revival that really influenced
(25:22):
New England food in American culture and New England culture,
and Thanksgiving was a big part of that. That New
England was looked at as the oldest and the most
influential part of the country. And it occurred right after
the Civil War, and I think that really played a
part why those southern claims to the holiday were sort
of pushed aside, and the cederal holiday was the way
(25:44):
that it was being celebrated in New England.
Speaker 2 (25:45):
Yeah. The other thing if Lincoln was talking about bringing
the country who was at that point fractured by a
civil war. The last few Thanksgivings that we've talked about
here in the radio, a lot of it is how
do you get along with the relatives who see things
dramatic differently politically and uh so we're kind of back
to where it all started. I think, where everybody should
(26:07):
be able to gather around a meal and put their
political disagreements aside and be thankful for everything that we have,
uh in in this country. Uh And yeah, I just
think it's ironic when when you when you think about it,
that we're kind of back to where we started with
the depth. I mean, we don't have a civil war, hopefully,
(26:29):
but it's it's some of the Thanksgivings that I've heard
about from my listeners have not been the most civil
events and in recent in recent years.
Speaker 6 (26:42):
You know what, I think. You know, there's a phrase
that that history doesn't repeat itself, but it oftentimes rhymes yes.
And I think that's something that that when you look at,
is the Thanksgiving story historically accurate. It's certainly not, or
at least we don't have enough documentation. But I think
(27:03):
the one thing that we've gotten right and we could
really take some inspiration from, is that the concept of
a thanksgiving it came from pured and it was a
way to celebrate what you had, and it was a
way to sort of acknowledge that something good had happened
(27:23):
in the last year or in you know, that a
war had ended, or that a drought had ended, or
there was the you know, you had a great harvest,
and that that then triggered we should all gather. We
should you know, whatever differences we have we can put aside.
And the way that that was celebrated was with an
abundance of food and sitting down and taking a time
(27:46):
to rest and be together. And I think if that's
one part of it that that we got right.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
It's that.
Speaker 6 (27:52):
And you know, the football fan and you would say,
you know, having a good play to games.
Speaker 2 (27:56):
On My attitude has always been there's like five apps. Family, faith, football, fun,
and friendship. Those those that's what Thanksgiving is supposed to
be all about. Well, thanks for the for the perspective. Mark,
are you working Thanksgiving as your your your restaurant open
(28:18):
serving Thanksgiving dinners? Or how are you closed down for the.
Speaker 6 (28:22):
Day we're closed? I've actually, you know, I've been working
in restaurants now for over twenty years and I've been
lucky enough that I've never had to work on Thanksgiving,
And ever since I started owning my own restaurants, that's
been a rule that you know, will be closed on
Thanksgiving Day. We're closed during the daytime on Friday, so
(28:44):
everyone can kind of get over there their food hangover,
and but we're doing sort of like Thanksgiving pre orders.
You can order pies or we make our ound Parker
House roles. You can order sides from us we're leaving
the turkey to our guest, but we're even offering things
like a package for build your own sandwich where you
(29:04):
can get bread and bacon and iola and stuff from us.
So that's sort of one way that you can still
have Northern Spy at your Thanksgiving, even though we'll be
at home with our family celebrated.
Speaker 2 (29:16):
If I was living down in the Canton area, I'd
be lining up at the door on Wednesday morning to
purchase some goodies. Thanks. Thanks Mark, you had me at
Parker House rolls. Thank you so much.
Speaker 6 (29:28):
Well, they're not going anywhere, so next time you make
it down we'll have them for it.
Speaker 2 (29:33):
Thanks Mark. We'll talk again, Thank you very much when
we get back. We're going to talk about seven toxic bosses. No,
not the bosses that you've worked for in your career,
maybe some of them from ghosts to credit thief. Seven
toxic bosses and how to deal with them. It doesn't
sound to me like Mark was Mark Sheen is a
toxic boss. Sounds like a great guy to work for.
(29:56):
But we're going to talk with a business strategist who
heads the Ethic See group. Sounds like a good organization.
Back on Nightside.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
Right after this, you're on Night Side with Dan Ray
on WBZ, Boston's news radio.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
We're joined by Dwayne Deson. He's a business strategist and
heads up a group called the Efficacy Group. That's a
great name for a group, Dwayne, how are you tonight
the Efficacy Group?
Speaker 4 (30:22):
Well, thank you, Dan, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (30:25):
So you're going to talk about an article that was
written by someone named Anker Wurku. I'm not familiar with that.
I think enough close enough, give it me right, I'll do,
I'll listen. I'll get it rather get it correct away.
What is it?
Speaker 4 (30:39):
I wouldn't have done it any better?
Speaker 2 (30:41):
Okay. He reveals seven toxic bosses who you will meet
in your career, who you might meet in your career,
and how to deal with them. An article out of
the Economic Time. Just like to give credit here, so
the seven toxic bosses and all of us can identify.
Some of them seem to sort of overlap one. I
read the article. To be honest with you, none of
(31:03):
these people should be bosses, from ghost to credit thief,
with all delved people like that, I guess. Tell us
about some of these characteristics.
Speaker 4 (31:13):
Well, I think that You're exactly right, and that usually
it's not one trait that it's actually several traits that
kind of combine and make it even worse than it
would otherwise be. And one of the issues that companies
really need to do is they're supposed to make their
environment attractive so that they get the best talent. And
if you get the best talent, you don't have to
pay a premium for them to come work for you.
(31:34):
And if you and if you have terrible bosses, you're
not going to make your organization attractive and lure the
best talent. So it's it ripples you out an organization.
So I think whether you're a whether you're working for
a toxic boss, whether you're you know a toxic boss,
or maybe even have a few listeners that are those
toxic bosses, it matters to everyone.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Well just to hit some of them. Here again, this
are article by anchor Mariku uh The ghost invisible and
support but visible and blame. Yeah, I get it. Yeah,
I'd like to use the metaphor of a baseball manager
that I made all the right moves, but that pitchure
hung the curveball. That's why we lost.
Speaker 4 (32:19):
You're you're Under that scenario, you're you're kind of on
your own and you need to make sure you document
what you need, make sure you document your your progress,
and then try to find support from your team members
and see if if you can support each other because
you're not getting support from your boss.
Speaker 7 (32:35):
What do you do when you when you go to
a company, you you you sign on with someone, and
again carrying the metaphor of sports, uh, you could you
could be a great athlete, and you sign with the
wrong team, and all of a sudden you realize, oh, man,
I was I was happy with that old team.
Speaker 2 (32:54):
Now I'm with it. What do you do? I mean,
do you, as they say, try to build some alliances
with other people you don't even know amongst the group
who the boss might be controlling and might have might
be a spy. I mean, it can get it can
get pretty machiavellian. I think it.
Speaker 4 (33:11):
Is difficult because really, in most average interview scenarios, you
have maybe an hour or two at best with the
person you're gonna end up working to where it's and
it's and it's a situation where it's not that different
from a marriage. You're gonna spend a lot of time
with that individual and and have to have a good
relationship with that that person, and so two hours isn't
really much time to make a very very important decision.
(33:34):
And if you can, and you always try to, you know,
check references or see if you find somebody that knows
somebody that works with that individual. But once you start
there and if if it's not what you expected, you
can't just leave. So you you have to find a
way to shine regardless. And it a little bit depends
on what trade it is and that that's interfering here
(33:56):
or causing the problem, which is how you should handle it.
So some of the traits, like if they're a micromanager
and we all know what that is, those are traits
that sometimes you can talk to the individual and say, look,
I think maybe I haven't gained your confidence yet, and
how I work how could I better gain your confidence?
(34:17):
And a lot of times micromanagers almost appreciate that because
they're overworking themselves, because they're busy micromanaging everybody, and so
they're looking for ways to lessen that if they can't,
and if you can find a way to help them,
they appreciate that. And other situations like some of the
other ones you mentioned where they're credit thieves or they
live in the blame game and those type of things
(34:37):
that they manipulate you. Those are much harder ones to
deal with, and you have to find a way to
shine and just believe in yourself and not let their
toxic environment create doubt in yourself.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
And the other problem is, particularly if you're on a
career path, you don't want to have you know, seven
jobs in your first four years in your career, on
your career on your resume because no matter what, that's
going to make you look peripatetic at best and somebody
who's not willing to stick in a job at worst.
I mean, yeah, move in every six months. Uh. That
(35:13):
that's a that's a poison pill in my opinion, on
a resume. So tell us about your company, the Efficacy Group.
What tell us a little bit more about what you
obviously a commenting for us tonight, you're a business strategist.
But what what does your group offer to my listeners?
(35:36):
What are you do you deal just with institutions, with companies,
with with corporations and businesses, or do you do you
help counsel people who find themselves in these situations.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
Well, it's interesting that I got into this and became,
I guess, a facto expert in this subject because my
background is cost management, and I wrote a book about
cost management and how to help companies be more efficient
and create a successful and buy fairman. And in that effort,
I started listening out the traits and I do this
in my book that are going to hurt a company.
(36:09):
And it was interesting as I realized many of those
same traits impact the company in many ways they wouldn't like.
So if somebody as a manipulator, as we talked about
one of the toxic bosses, they're not only manipulating their employees,
they're manipulating the organization in many ways, and they're toxic
for the overall organization just as they're toxic for the employee.
(36:29):
So what I try to do is try to help
companies recognize what challenges they have and how to make
their company. I even refer to this way, how to
make their company attractive, how to make it a place
where people want to work. If you want to save
money as an organization, one of the best ways to
do that is not to have to overpay your employees
(36:49):
to come to work. Because no one wants to work
there absolutely.
Speaker 2 (36:53):
What was the name of the book in case people
would like to perhaps read.
Speaker 5 (36:56):
It operationally stealth as in spelts and lean.
Speaker 2 (37:00):
And as V E Lte.
Speaker 4 (37:03):
If I'm not mistaken, I appreciate that a lot of
people can get that.
Speaker 5 (37:05):
Thank you very much.
Speaker 2 (37:07):
I was a spelling bee champion. Look, I really enjoyed
the conversation, the good sense of humor, but it's a
serious topic. And I thank you for being with us tonight,
Dayne and hopefully get you back at some point. This
was a fun conversation. Thank you much.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
Thank you.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Well we get back. We're gonna talk about an increasing
murder rate in Boston. I mean, it's not off the charts,
but it's more than it was a year ago, and
a lot of it is happening in one major area
in Boston. We're gonna talk with Reverend Kevin Peterson of
the New Democracy Coalition. There's some tough stories we're about
to talk with you about coming up right after the
(37:46):
nine o'clock news, and I want to hear from you
whether you live in one of these areas or you
live in the relative security of maybe some of the
other communities and think for a moment what it would
be like in your community if you were dealing with
gunfire every night and street murders coming back on nightside
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