Full Show Podcast: 16 June 2024

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks ed B.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great reads
used Talks ed B.

Speaker 3 (00:36):
Good morning and welcome to the Sunday Session. I'm Franchesca
rocn with you until midday. Good to have you with us.
So much coming your way today in the show, of course,
it's Super Rugby Pacific SEEMI final weekend and we have
our finalist. Congratulations to the Blues and the Chiefs. More
on this with an straw shortly. Over the last decade
or so, we have become obsessed with true crime podcasts.

(00:59):
But what happens when the hunt for the truth goes wrong,
When the line between fact and entertainment gets blurred and
the search for wow answers tests ethical boundaries. That's the
scenario an American true crime podcaster Emily Nesta had to
deal with As the host of the Mile Michael one
oh one podcast, she had a growing audience of millions,

(01:20):
but then her investigation took a turn. How did she
deal with it? While filmmaker Chris Kassick caught the podcasters
rise and fall all on camera and the result of
the documentary called Citizen Sleuth. Chris and Emily joined me
Are to Tea to talk about true crime podcasts and
whether they hurt or help, And after eleven, the fabulous

(01:40):
Holly Smith joins me to talk about painting nudes, the
state of the music industry and the challenges facing local musicians,
and how and why she is touring on a different
scale these days. And of course you're always most welcome
to text anytime throughout the morning. Ninety two ninety two
the Sunday Session. Banking and fuel reviews have been in

(02:01):
the news this week, and while it's been all good
intentions from the government, it remains difficult to believe we'll
see any substantial change. Opposition parties will always complain about
the number of inquiries or reviews a government or Crown
interitry does, but when they come to power they quickly
do the same. Either way, it's hard to get excited
about them. This week, the Commerce Commission released its latest

(02:23):
analysis on fuel companies and They're Pricing, announcing that retailers
are quick to increase fuel prices when costs go up,
but slower to bring prices down when costs decline. It's
not as that rocket feather approach. Prices rocket up and
then they float down gently like a feather for a
long period of time. I think if you put fuel
in a car, you already know this, but it was

(02:46):
interesting to hear the Commission put a figure on it.
Motorists would benefit by around fifteen million a year of
fuel companies were to drop prices as quickly as they
increase them. And of course this is a timely conversation
because the Auckland regional fuel tax comes off or it
comes to an end at midnight on June thirtieth, and
motorists are expecting that eleven point five five cents to

(03:07):
come off the price at the pumps immediately. And I
think that any fuel company with the marketing department and
an interest in customer loyalty will be working hard to
make this happen. But I doubt that the Commerce Commission's
general warning that it will keep a close watch on
the pricing tactics of fuel companies in the future will
make any major difference. If you want cheaper petrol, then

(03:29):
use the station, apps gasby or fill up at an
unmanned stations. Banking was also in the firing line this
week and with Finance Minister Nichola Willis announcing an inquiry
into banking competition with a focus on rural banking. The
inquiry will be which will be undertaken by the Finance
and Expenditure and Primary Production Committees, are going to examine

(03:50):
the state of competition in the banking sector and look
at the barriers preventing further competition and any possible impact
of the regulatory environment on competition and efficient access to ending.
Nikola Willis believes this will benefit us all and yes,
we would love to see more competition and banking, so
out of pure optimism, I'm hoping we see some changes
that benefit the customer. But once again, I won't be

(04:14):
holding my breath for any significant changes.

Speaker 2 (04:18):
It's a Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (04:20):
So are you going to rely on the government to
help you out at the pumps or at the bank
or are you going to be proactive and get it
sort at yourself? Shop around those banks, look for the deals,
demand better service. Are you going to go to those
and unmanned stations petrol stations and actually make a real
effort travel to find the petrol. At the end of
the day, I think that we're going to have more
luck if you and I are proactive and make decisions

(04:42):
as a customer in regards to getting better deals than
probably waiting for reviews, analysis and inquiries. Love to hear
your thoughts. You can text on ninety two ninety two. Next,
we're going to discuss the ethics of offshoring our mining needs.
You're with News Talks, he'd be It is eleven past nine.

Speaker 2 (05:01):
Relax, it's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (05:03):
It's a Sunday session with Francesca right and Wiggles for
the best selection of great reads Used Talks.

Speaker 3 (05:10):
It'd be good to have you with us. We're going
to talk super Rugby Semis with Ants Strawn shortly, but
first excuse me. Mining it's been a hot topic of debate.
Resources Minister Shane Jones unveiled his draft strategy for mineral
mining a couple of weeks ago, which is open for
submissions now. Environmentalists are concerned of the impact that we'll

(05:31):
have on our country, but geology Associate Professor Martin brook
is questioning the ethics of offshoring our mining needs and
he is with me. Now, good morning, Martin, Good morning,
How are you. I'm really good. Thanks. Hey, let's have
a little talk about the ethics of offshoring our mining needs.
Where are we importing our minerals from at the moment,

(05:53):
and what kind of conditions are they being mined under.

Speaker 4 (05:58):
Well, we've bought just about everything, don't we. So we
order things on the internet and it turns upon the doorstep,
you know, we're going to Harvey Norman's. And I think
the main thrusts of that article were really just to
start the conversation on on on this, on this draft
mining strategy and what we want to do, because it's

(06:18):
it's very convenient for us to be anti mining and
say we don't want mining here in New Zealand, and
that's that's possibly a good thing, but that just means
that all the mining occurs overseas and we're conveniently offshoring
our environmental footprints. And I don't think that's ethically or
or morally right because everything we use, from a soup

(06:41):
spoon to a smartphone and all the technology in between
that comes out of the ground, and even plastics come
from an oil field. So I don't I think the
problem is people have got now a disconnection from the
land and their daily lives, and they wouldn't have had
it in the past when we had a really agricultural
economy that have understood understood that everything comes from the

(07:02):
land and it's it's not really anything revolutionary revolutionary on you.
I would expect sort of primary school kids to understand
these concepts. But you know, I think we need to
understand that we can't just offshore our environmental footprint and
have this sort of pull up the road jack, we're
all right attitude. I think that's wrong.

Speaker 3 (07:23):
So we've got an obligation to share the load of mining.

Speaker 5 (07:27):
I think we're doing.

Speaker 4 (07:28):
I think we should. Yeah, where we've got minerals that
are required for manufacturing the technology and the products, we
should be trying to feed those into the global supply
chains where we can do where you know, we can
you know, reap whatever economic benefits there are, as long
as we're not harming our environment. That's that's the that's

(07:50):
the crucial thing.

Speaker 6 (07:51):
I think.

Speaker 4 (07:52):
So it's about technology. Oh sorry, go ahead, Martin.

Speaker 3 (07:55):
Is it just about education? Because there's a mining has
become very politicized. You're either for it or you're against it,
and it doesn't seem to be any nuance in the
conversation in between. And and I'm sure there is a
difference between good mining and bad mining as well that
we don't kind of talk about. We just presume all

(08:15):
mining is bad, But I'm sure that there is good
mining practices out there that we should be talking about
as well. Is it just does it just come down
to sort of just reminding people and educating people a
little bit more about about as you say, how much
we rely on these minerals.

Speaker 4 (08:33):
Yeah, I think it does come down to education, I think,
And I think it doesn't help where you've got politicians
declaring they're anti mining and all the rest of it
while they're reading their speech from a smartphone, you know,
with a microphone with lots of copper and other minim
and stealing it. I don't think that's helpful. And I

(08:54):
think really it needs an adult conversation because if we didn't,
if we were really anti mining, would believed that living
a neolithic existence as stone age people. It's that simple.
We need mining for spectacles, for all our healthcare. The
list goes on and on. Even toothpaste has got lots
of different minerals in it, So I think it is

(09:18):
an education thing and I think people really need to
have a pragmatic, grown up conversation about it, and that
starts with our politicians and Martin.

Speaker 3 (09:26):
We want to move on from fossil fuels, we want
to be prepared to do that transition to more sustainable
renewable energy. But that too requires resources, right it does.

Speaker 4 (09:36):
Yeah, we need to stop burning fossil fuels, it seems
from the climatologists. But you know, with green energy, wind
farms consume massive amounts of steel. So even three mega
what turbine which is not a big one, now that's
got three hundred tons of steel in it, fifty tons
of copper and half a ton of value minium each turbine,

(09:57):
and the turbines that are going up I think in
Taranaki are four point two mega lots, so they're even bigger.
So each turbine's got hundreds of tons of metal in them.
And steel is I think main well, it's mainly produced
in well using cocin coal so as well as the metals,
but cocin coal is used in the steel manufacturing process.

(10:18):
So so yeah, wind farms are great, but they consume
massive amounts of metal, and that's that's something that people
need to realize as well, that metal is generally coming
from overseas and and you know, some of the some
of the worst problems in the world are overseas in
developing countries, often the political problems to do with mining,

(10:41):
so tantal them. For example, which is in every smartphone
usually comes from the Democratic Republic of the Congo, and
they've had issues there in the the Tanga province for
well over half a century. And in fact, it's a
mineral rich province in the Congo. Lots of lots of
minerals come comfort into the global supply chain. If the
uranium from the Manhattan Project came from there. And so

(11:05):
you know, when we assume lots of minerals and technology,
we need to understand that it has lots of impacts
around the world that we're potentially fueling. So we can't
be sanctimonious about our lives here in New Zealand, Martin.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
If we do look at the critical minerals list, do
we know what we actually have here in New Zealand?

Speaker 4 (11:23):
Fully well, I think there's probably the resonance. Journalgists will
have a good idea, but I think that's I think
that was the second thrust of Shane Jones's strategy to
produce a critical minerals list, and I think that's already
been contracted out, that work, so it'll be interesting to
see what it comes up with in what parts of
the country. I think there's probably a lot of people

(11:44):
waiting to see that get published.

Speaker 3 (11:47):
How big are the economic benefits here and how do
we weigh those up against the ethical and environmental concerns.

Speaker 4 (11:53):
Well, if that's the Trade Office, well the International Energy Agency,
they think that usually for every one mining job, it
produces two to four other jobs in the economy, so
it has a bit of a multiplier effect which is
worth considering. But you know, the environmental costs have got
to be considered obviously when you're in the you know,

(12:18):
we have good universities in this country. We've got some
great engineers, we've got great geologists, environmental scientists, all charters,
and you know, we have a very strong educational system
here and there's plenty of smart people in New Zealand
who I'm sure can manage minds and the environment in
a positive way.

Speaker 3 (12:37):
So you believe because because I think the environmental concerns
are very legitimated, and we'd like to see that the
risk minimalized. So you're basically saying we probably do hear
the talent here to minimize risk.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
Well, yes, and it's getting the it's getting the regulation
settings right as well, and you know, monitoring and all sorts.
So you know, when you open a mind, you know,
the minds open for a few decades and then it
closes and then you know, you still got a monitor
afterwards and do do that kind of work. So it's

(13:10):
not just opening a mind. Isn't just a potential problem
while it's operating. So a closure and rehab and monitoring
afterwards of waterways and things, you know, that goes on
for decades. So you know there's some serious things to
consider without a doubt, but that they need to be
considered and discussed properly rather than hysterical rhetoric, which I

(13:35):
don't think is helpful.

Speaker 3 (13:36):
Martin Broke, appreciate it. Thank you so much for your time.
That was Geology Associate Professor.

Speaker 2 (13:41):
Martin brook First Sunday session.

Speaker 3 (13:46):
Right, we have our super rugby semifinalists. Jimmy Tupoort takes
it in.

Speaker 7 (13:51):
Yes, Hooter goes It's sky Stadium. They just need a
given in a touch save your road doesn't for the
second time in success of seasons that Chiefs they hit
it for the Grand Final.

Speaker 3 (14:05):
Or they would have been tough for Pine. The Chiefs
beating the Hurricanes yesterday afternoon. They'll meet the Blues at
Eden Park next Saturday night to talk us through the
semis and look ahead to the final form of All
Blacks and gold. Sport commentator Ant Strawn joins me.

Speaker 2 (14:17):
Now, good morning and morning Princesa.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
How are you good Chiefs last night? What do you
pick that one?

Speaker 5 (14:23):
Yeah? I did. Actually we don't often say these things,
but yeah, when I was commentating with Elliott on Friday night,
I just just said a feeling that they had really
a strong momentum going into that semi final. The week
before they were really impressive, particularly their first half blitz.
So yeah, well set up for last night and they won.

Speaker 3 (14:42):
And the end well, they were second last year, third
the year before. They're clearly aware of how to build
up to those finals and get themselves through without burning
out too early.

Speaker 5 (14:54):
No, and I think there'd been some question marks over
their consistency throughout the season, but you know, as we
all know, the sharpiens where it really counts, and Clayton
McMillan as coaching team certainly had them well prepped for
the quarterfinals, and I mean, you know, they had a
clear pan going into to last night against the Hurricanes.
They executed brilliantly early on fourteen l I think after
about ten minutes, and you know when a team's on

(15:16):
song like that and you make a statement early. I
mean they stayed in front pretty much the whole match.
So yeah, really well scripted and the players executed it
to the teeth.

Speaker 3 (15:25):
The Hurricanes have had an impressive season. You could see
how devastated they were at the end. What do you
think happened there?

Speaker 7 (15:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 8 (15:32):
It was.

Speaker 5 (15:32):
It was disappointing, wasn't it? Because they had been the forerunners.
I mean they finished first in the competition. I just felt,
you know, right at the back end they just started
to tape off. And there were stages in a lot
of their games, the last round robin gain, the quarterfinal,
just a little cracks starting to a p I guess,
and you know it's just sort of one team with
immense momentum and the other one sort of just kind

(15:54):
of holding on so it felt like that for moments
of the game last night.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
Okay, Blues or Chiefs, which guys are going to go?

Speaker 5 (16:03):
And well, I mean the Blues were impressive also on
Friday night Wednesday. I mean the fort triplets in the
first starts really dominant, and I mean they're playing to
such a simple system and it's a really process driven
Blues team this year. They keep it simple and they're
very hard to stop, and defensively they've also been impressive.
So I think you have to see two contrasting styles

(16:23):
next week. So that's what's intriguing for us. A very direct,
hard running Blues team that defend brilliantly and the Teach
team that can really flick the switch and play some
quite in the native and extravagant rugby. So I'll probably
stick home field advantage for mine. Francisca. I think the
Blues will get up, but it should be really exciting.
Just think the weather's good next weekend.

Speaker 3 (16:44):
Do you think they'll get a crowd to the final?
Some of the crowds haven't been great. Should you judge
interest in super rugby from the crowds?

Speaker 5 (16:51):
Yeah, really disappointing. I mean I think there was only
about twelve thousand last week, sorry, this most recent game
with the Blues, and I mean I'm staggering. I mean
the weather was horrible and Auckland on Friday. But you know,
just to think that the team's played so well season
for their fans and there was only that many people,
we get disappointing. And there's been a spattering of crowds

(17:14):
over the last probably six to eight weeks, so I'm
not quite sure sustainably how that stacks up moving forward.
But you'd like to think next weekend there'll be a
grove of them coming up from the White Cuttle, which
they always do with their cow bells, and hopefully the
Orkinders will get out and support their team. So good
thing that they'll get up somewhere between sort of twenty
five and thirty thousand next week.

Speaker 3 (17:33):
Yeah, that's type. So what have you made of the
Super Rugby season? We're not used to a final without
the Crusaders. Is it good for New Zealand rugby that
they're having a bit of a temporary wobble?

Speaker 5 (17:42):
Well, there, I think it is a real temporary wobble,
as you say, And what I've liked this year, to
be honest, is We've had four New Zealand teams that
have been right up in the contest. The Hogland has
made the top eight to remember, and the Highlands the
Crusader's only team that sort of dropped off. But we
saw an increase in the output from the Australian teams,
which to be honest, has been horrible over the last

(18:04):
two to three seasons. So to see of their teams
up in the top eight, and then obviously the Brumby's
missed in the semi finals last week, it added a
bit more spice this year, I think because if the
New Zealand team was a bit underdone going to Australia
or even the Australian teams coming in, they could lose
those matches. So I think that had helped. But yeah,
again I don't have the answers around Super rugby moving forward,

(18:27):
but the global game probably needs a further look around.
You know who we're heading in terms of as a spectacle.
I guess the financial pressures that stand behind the game. Yeah,
lots of things, but I think the products for the
most part in Super Rugby this year has been very good.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
And finally, the decision for an Afternoon semifinal. My understanding
is it was it was Sky TV's decision to avoid
the clash with the Warriors. I don't know has he
ever been a situation where a rugby semi final schedule
would have been determined by a league game? I mean,
is this just an example of how the Warriors are
dominating over union at the moment?

Speaker 9 (19:06):
Oh?

Speaker 5 (19:06):
I mean, look, look we should probably debate that for
a long period of time, but you know, the societal
shifts in terms of people watching sport, and the league
has a really strong following NRL from New Zealanders and
it has done for many years, and the mean Super
Rugby obviously does too. It's still our national game. You know,
why create cases? I mean, you know, common sense prevails,

(19:27):
doesn't it, you know, And it doesn't mean whether it's
a league before the rugby or vice versa.

Speaker 4 (19:31):
What we are.

Speaker 5 (19:31):
Creating for the punters is that you can watch both.
And you know, I mean that's sensible.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (19:37):
I mean, I'm a rugby player. I enjoy watching league,
but I'm rugby through and through I have forever. But
you know, it doesn't worry me whether it's one way
or the other round. So I think you'll find most
people in New Zealand will be the same and they'll
be applauding the decision by Sky to do that.

Speaker 3 (19:51):
Thanks so much and as always, really appreciate your thoughts.
That was ant Strawn and I watched that rugby game
used to have to know and it went dark and
then I went, ah, all my time for bed and
it's six o'clock. Oh, thank good, I said, some league
to keep me awake anyway? Clear Trivette is with us,
next with politics. Oh winter, I'm not good in winter.

(20:12):
It is nine thirty News Talks a'b.

Speaker 1 (20:17):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at B.

Speaker 3 (20:22):
Thank you very much for your texts. I received one
saying time parents and teachers actually started educating students that
everything we use comes from mining something somewhere green. Student
protests so ignorance. Keen to hear from you. You can text
any time this morning on ninety two ninety two whether
you think we should be questioning the ethics of offshoring
our mineral needs and whether we actually have an obligation

(20:44):
to share the load of mining, and what you thought
of what Martin had to say about that joining me.
Now we have got you sell in here. Political editor
clear trivette, good morning, Good morning. It's quite busy at
the moment, isn't it. The Prime Minister leaves for Japan
today and he's been quite vocal about this trip before
he leaves.

Speaker 10 (21:04):
Yes, he's done as usual pre prip round of interviews.
He's off to Japan today and back at the end
of the week. He is predominantly the start of it
is predominantly a business trip. And because the Christopher Uson
likes to pretend or not for tend, but likes to
talk up how everything he's doing is better than how

(21:26):
people will forwarded it, he's done the same with his
business delegation and his pre trip interviews where he's taking
their heads of their New Zealand, the A and Ze,
Rocket Lab, Fronterra, the Superfund, investment people, Zero Zestri, all
the big names, and he's claiming that his list is
the A list of the business delegation. And in the

(21:49):
past he's had concerns that the business delegations going on
the Prime Minister's trips have been quote B list. I'm
not sure that quite steps up. You usually have a
mixed actually of the big names and their boutique names.
But his primary aim, because he is quite a business
driven prime minister, is to try and get investment, basically

(22:10):
investment in New Zealand, and he's taking the companies over
for basically to build on that investment message and cut
their deals that he wants them to cut and stuff
like that. So he's apparently told his officials that on
all of these trips he wants at least a two
hour lunch with the big investment funds somewhere. Remember Desindra
durn and New York met with Black Rock and that

(22:31):
bore fruits to New Zealand. They fronted up a bit
later with billions of dollars actually in facilities for renewable
energy projects and stuff. So he's off to that and
then at the end of the week he will have
the political part of his delegation with meeting with Japan's
Prime Minister Forumio Kasheda, who's actually i think in Ukraine
at the moment for the peace summit before he goes

(22:53):
back to Japan, and that will be where he focuses
more on the kind of relationship, the defense and security
relationship with casheda and building his own personal relationships of them,
which can come in handy at subsequent massive international summits
and stuff like that. So a bit of a mix.

Speaker 3 (23:13):
Clear you mentioned the Ukraine Peace summit. Mark Mitchell has
been sent to that. I'm presuming that the Prime Minister
or our foreign minister or Minister of Defense hasn't gone
because they're unavailable.

Speaker 10 (23:24):
I assume, so I'm not actually one hundred percent. Well,
I mean Luxon of course said as Japan Trapan. I
think Winston Peter's only got back yesterday the day before
from his Southeast Asia one. I think it was actually
the foreign Winston Peters, who are smart natural to go
on it. He's not necessarily a bad fit. I think
that some people would like to see a more senior

(23:46):
minister there, like the Defense or Foreign Affairs or the
Prime Minister at that summit. But in terms of I'm picking,
he picked Matt Mitchell because of his own background. He
has been a defense minister in the past, but more crucially,
he was involved in his previous life in kind of
logistics in war zones, around getting humanitarian aid and all

(24:08):
that kind of stuff, so which is one of the
focuses of the Ukraine Summit. So because New Zealand's a
small country, it's basically the Ukraine's attempt to try and
get as many international voices as they can behind their
own their own hopes and dreams for a peace plan
in that war against Russia and Ukraine. Russia wasn't invited,

(24:29):
China has decided not to go, and so they're kind
of talking now, I think today or later tonight when
they meet, they'll be talking about the logistics of humanitarian
aid and all that kind of stuff. Yesterday was more
more general talk and yeah, so mart Matul there, so
it's kind of good to have. It's about nineteen ninety

(24:50):
comtries going. So, yeah, there was some pressure here from
the Ukrainian community, quite understandably for New Zealand to go.
In New Zealand should be there. So it's not necessarily
the level of minister that people might have wanted, but
nonetheless of relatively appropriate one. So he was supposed to
ring me before I came on here, but he hasn't, so.

Speaker 3 (25:13):
I'm sure you'll track him. I'm sure track him down
throughout the day.

Speaker 11 (25:17):
Claire.

Speaker 3 (25:18):
You're also at the Labor Regional Conference.

Speaker 7 (25:20):
Today.

Speaker 3 (25:20):
You're going to be covering Chris Hipkin's speech, which is
going to be around eleven fifteen eight in this morning.
What are you expecting.

Speaker 10 (25:29):
Yes, it's the last of the regional conferences before they
go into the general conference, so this is him talking
to the troops while they sought out what they want
to talk about at the at the main conference. He's
come straight off the back of Field days where he
issued yet another one of his long trail of sorrows,

(25:50):
admitting that labor head kind of its relationship with the
primary sector had soured significantly and he took some flax
for that. He's done it before on a number of
issues around Labour's promises, around transport and stuff like that,
just the stuff that he's he's kind of in admitting
their wrong stage of things before he moves on to
what they're going to do next time. Talking to the

(26:13):
party base is a lot different from talking to your critics,
so he will be hopefully kind of more listening than talking.
We're not exactly sure what he's going to talk about
in specific, but he is expected to give a slightly
different speech to that the one he's delivered in the
past before they go into that. There's some talk about this,
so the members will all be sorting out what they

(26:33):
want to pass in the form of remits at the
national conference. There's some talk from the Auckland one that
they want to be able to do away with the
leader's right to make the so called captain's calls. Whether
that one makes it onto the floor will be interesting
to see. That was the process that to Cindra do
News too. It's not really a process, it's just a

(26:54):
political reality means we have to rule out doing this,
ruling out the capital gains tax and stuff like that.
So there'll be a lot of talk about the kind
of text. But it is his home region so he
should have a fair a pretty friendly audience there.

Speaker 3 (27:08):
Thanks Claire, good to catch up with you. Remember John Nabs,
the Kiwi who ran across Canada dressed as Superman raising
money for child cancer. Well he's back on the road.
He's running the length of New Zealand. We're going to
check in with John next.

Speaker 1 (27:20):
It is twenty to ten Sunday with Style the Sunday
Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles For the best selection
of great reeds.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
Please talk zebby now don't forget that. Here on the
Sunday session after ten, we're going to delve into the
ethics behind true crime podcasts and what happens when investigation
doesn't turn out how a podcast anticipates. I know a
lot of you out there are huge fans of true
crime podcasts. Right now, though here on the Sunday session,
we're quite invested in the adventures of Kiwi John Nabs.
You may remember we've spoken to him a couple of

(27:51):
times as he made his way running across Canada dressed
as Superman. John knocked off Canada in three hundred and
five days, running nearly eight thousand kilometers, and now he's
almost run the length of New Zealand. He started in
Bluff and mid May. He's expected in Capri tomorrow and
all of this raising funds for child cancer. And he
joins me, now, so nice to catch up.

Speaker 9 (28:12):
Good morning, morning doing don't have me on.

Speaker 3 (28:16):
I'm good? Are we Where are we?

Speaker 12 (28:18):
Where?

Speaker 3 (28:18):
Where are we holding you up? Are you on the
road yet?

Speaker 12 (28:22):
I am yeah, I'm I've just come away from the
road to fine little patch of good reception. I'm just
outside of mang and Nui, way up north with the
famous fish and chip shop.

Speaker 3 (28:31):
Oh are they open? Stop sal up?

Speaker 12 (28:37):
I know of this time of the morning. I think
that they wouldn't sit very well in the stomach. I'll
have to stop on the way back down.

Speaker 3 (28:43):
Okay, So what day are you on? How are you going?

Speaker 12 (28:47):
Today? Is the thirty five and trekking? Really well? That
is with three days of stoppage. Today I stopped for
a day when I visited Starship Children's Hospital in Upland.
In another two days actually stopping and crash Itch for
similar visits the Child Cancer Foundation down there. So yeah,

(29:07):
stay thirty five. It's my thirty second day of running
and we are on track to the lighthouse off that
kept Banger tomorrow at three pm. That'll be especially It'll
be thirty five days and seven hours and it should
be a new Guinness WUD record.

Speaker 3 (29:23):
Fantastic. So what on earth possessed you to do this?
After Canada?

Speaker 12 (29:29):
I wanted to to bring the you know it was
it was so much fun and touch that it seemed
to get so much support over there in Canada, and
then I for a lot of people that were going
along back here in New Zealand, it seemed, you know,

(29:49):
family and friends and stuff, were really invested in it.
They really loved the journey. But outside of that, you know,
it was just sort of happening in the abstract over
on the other side.

Speaker 4 (29:57):
Of the world.

Speaker 12 (29:57):
So I wanted to do those same hospital visits and
and sort of bring this fun adventure into people's lives
here a little bit more on the ground here at home.
And it's been so fun. I'm so tough that I've
sort of had the energy to do so, And you know,

(30:19):
just it might just seem like a bit of a
bit of a wall running along the road in the
Superman suit, but when I actually, you know, meet people
in person, it really does seem to bring something to them.
It really enlivens them and inspires them. And it's it's
it's so neat to be able to do that at
home for my for my own country.

Speaker 3 (30:35):
Oh, I'm glad the reception has been good. Hey, how
is the Superman costume holding up? I did hear it
got a bit heavy with all that rain.

Speaker 12 (30:42):
Absolutely, Yeah, so a couple of days ago. I've had
a dream run of weather since about Rollicston, just outside
of crist here. But yeah, the Norse sort of churned
on the taps when I rode into funk It eight
the other day. Yeah, we're the warnings of Superman suit
is you know, all the little fake muscles of the
Superman suit, they're all made out of cotton cotton balls,

(31:04):
and so we're not. It gets absolutely saturated, like really
really heavy, and it all sticks to your body. You know,
it's a full body suit. So yeah, incredibly uncomfortable. Actually
I didn't run in it yesterday just because of that,
because it was just very very hard working. But now

(31:25):
it's going Okay, it's probably on its last league. It's
the same suit I've had since Toronto in Ontario when
I was unning through Canada. Probably it's probably done. Would
have done. I would have done four thousand k's with
me over there and now two thousand here, so it's
it's done.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
A good, poor, very sustainable approach to this run. Hey,
how's the fundraising going.

Speaker 5 (31:48):
Really well?

Speaker 12 (31:49):
Yeah? Here for the fundraising campaign for the Child Cancer
Foundation of New Zealand is just over forty thousand, and
that's in a that's just we don't really have a
huge professional team behind me. It's it's just me running
along doing social media videos and a couple of people
helping behind the scenes. So yeah, chaffed with that. And

(32:12):
yeah I stopped and and visited the foundation and christ
each and again in Auckland when I came through three
or four days ago, and yeah, it's a it's a
special bunch of people doing a special bunch of work.
So I'm just chuffed with the fundraising results.

Speaker 3 (32:25):
So if people want to find you, John and follow you,
where do they go?

Speaker 12 (32:30):
The best place people can follow along is on Instagram
and they can find me there just John J O M.
And got in a bbs. It's just John dot nabb,
just my name, and also my website John nabs dot
com a really easy way as well. If it's you
can also just google who's who's the que fellow that

(32:53):
ran across Canada or it usually pops up with my
smile on the face there, so it's an easy way
to find it as well.

Speaker 3 (32:59):
Oh brilliant. Hey, look take care, enjoy that finish line
tomorrow at three pm and well on another epic run.
And John's website there has the fundraising details if you're interested.
It is twelve to ten Newstalk SIPB putting.

Speaker 1 (33:15):
The tough questions to the newsmakers the mic Asking Breakfast.

Speaker 13 (33:19):
Retirement Commission has got a bunch of ideas to boost
our Qi Saber potophole. Contribution should be rising from three
to four percent. Employers match that. Sam Stubbs, founder of
course of the Que Sabers Scheme Simplicity, is back with us.
Her ideas and your ideas. Do they align broadly or not?

Speaker 8 (33:33):
Not perfectly?

Speaker 6 (33:33):
Mike.

Speaker 8 (33:33):
I mean, I think she wants contributions to rise one percent,
but if you look at Ozzie, they're paying twelve percent.
So if the Aussies have got five times our population,
but they've got thirty five times our savings, so we're
not saving nearly enough. But she has to introduce this
idea gradually because you know, everyone's got to across a
living crisis. She is to say that we save a
contributions which you go from three to twelve percent, everybody
would laugh.

Speaker 13 (33:53):
Back tomorrow at six am the mic Asking Breakfast with
jaguine Newstalk ZIBB.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
It's a Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wiggles for
the best election of great breaths us.

Speaker 2 (34:08):
Talk said me.

Speaker 3 (34:20):
It is ten to ten here on the Sunday season.
It's not lovely to see Princess Kate out and about it.
She's returned to the public spotlight for the trooping of
the color. Know, it's just just feel good. Isn't it
nice to see her feeling that she's feeling good enough
to hit out in about She looks amazing too, so
that's lovely. Hey, feedback I spoke. I talked about the

(34:43):
first hour about the fact we're taking a look at
fuel prices and banks and do you imagine at all
that won't have any impact on you. I'd like to
see some more competition without our banks. I did receive
a text though, saying I have a friend who believes
banks making bigger profits and smaller ones are better off
due to our New Zealand's location in the world and
how many underfunded banks fall over all over the world.
I would agree with them. What happens if banks were

(35:04):
not making the sort of profits they do, our own
banking system maygo belly up. It may seem harsh, but
it has to be taken into consideration. Thanks. Malcolm also
wanted to make the comment if you like the snow
that yesterday, Mark the opening of ski fields in Queenstown
and Wonica. With current peak, drone and remarkables opening, here's

(35:26):
been worry. I think June is just too soon these days,
isn't it. There was some good early snow but that
has been washed away with a bit of rain and
some warm weather, so it's been hard to make snow,
so there are very limited facilities open at those ski fields.
Hopefully there'll be some cold temperatures to get the snow
machines going. Mount Hart opened on Friday as well. They

(35:47):
were looking good there for a while. They offered open
early and look good, but they're a bit bare now.
So the other day they were Clopin which is quite clever.
It's open but closed. And Mount Roupe, who has suffered
the same fate. They had a good dumper snow a
little bit earlier in the year and they'll be hoping
for some cold weather as well because a lot of
that has been washed away. Toro and Fockapapa they're projected

(36:08):
to open on Matsuriki weekend. There has been a bit
of cold weather over the last few days and ski
feelds have benefited from that. But the ski industry in
Queens Sound in particular says that bookings are down this
year as the economic conditions remove ski holidays from people's calendars.
And I'm sure that is absolutely the case, especially in Queenstown.
But I wonder to about the unpredictability of snow. So

(36:29):
I'd like to hear from you if you're putting off
making plans to ski this year, waiting till you sort
of see what sort of snow we're going to get
before committing. And I suppose the big question is then
when should we start getting concerned about the ski industry
in general in New Zealand. So I'd love to hear
from you on that as well. It is six to
ten News Talks FB keep.

Speaker 1 (36:49):
It's Simple, It's Sunday the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudka
and Wiggles for the best selection of Gravers News Talks.

Speaker 3 (36:57):
Mb Right podcasts depicting real life crime. They became a
phenomenon about twenty fourteen with a launch of Serial, the podcast,
which in its first season delved into a nineteen ninety
nine murder of a high school student. You probably remember.
Many of us have listened to it. Since then, we
have become obsessed with true crime podcasts, But what are
the ethics behind individuals investigating crimes? Our podcast is profiting

(37:22):
off a victim for entertainment. We have a lot to
delve into with our podcast. To Emily Nesta next. Emily
was a very successful true crime podcaster until the story
she was telling fell apart, ads did her career. So
she is with us next, and we're going to finish
with a little bit of Toto Africa. More than forty
years after topping the Billboard Hot one hundred, Toto's Africa

(37:44):
is still reaching new milestones. It has just surpassed one
billion views on YouTube Enjoy.

Speaker 6 (38:13):
Three voice. She's waiting death for you. You're thinking the
way for another bod Man on the under I'm best
to raise down in the ass forgotten. I'm missed the

(38:37):
raise down in a regatt. I'm best to raise down
in a forgot. I guess the raise down in the
ass regod. I guessed the raise down in their good

(38:57):
takes some time to do about things in app.

Speaker 2 (39:06):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (39:08):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wickles for
the best selection of Greg Reads, News Talk, sevv.

Speaker 3 (39:21):
Yes this is a Sunday session. Good to have you
with us. It is ten past seven. So a few
years ago, Emily Nestor was a true crime podcaster from
the Appalachi region in the US, and she created a
podcast called mile Marker one eight one, investigating the mysterious
death of a local, Julia Davis. The podcast was a

(39:41):
hit with a growing audience in the millions, but then
things started to go wrong. Despite her best intentions, Emily
was confronted with a new truth, a turn in the story,
and faced telling listeners that there may not be a
murder or crime at all. Emily's story is the basis
for a new documentary. It's called Citizen Sleuth. It is

(40:02):
screening as part of this year's doc Edge Festival, and
director of Citizen Sleuth Chris Kassick and Emily Nesta herself
join me now. Good morning to the tovie.

Speaker 14 (40:13):
Thank you for having us.

Speaker 3 (40:15):
So things didn't turn out how either of you anticipated
in your endeavors, but in the process you've brought some
really interesting ethical questions to light regarding true crime podcasts,
which we all love. Maybe we could start with you
and your story, Emily, tell me, how did you become
a true crime podcaster.

Speaker 15 (40:35):
Well, so this case was always in the back of
my mind because this happened in my hometown and it
was well known within the community that this was sort of,
you know, a questionable outcome. A lot of the community
members believe to this day that this was.

Speaker 7 (40:54):
A murder.

Speaker 15 (40:55):
So it wasn't that I sought out being a true
crime podcaster. I just had always had a lot of
questions about that case.

Speaker 3 (41:06):
Why do you think we love true crime podcasts so much, Jimily.

Speaker 15 (41:11):
Well, I have a lot of opinions on that these days,
but I think especially the demographic being white women, I
think that this is kind of like a safe space
for us to play with mortality and you know, our
own mortality and death and violence. And I've thought about

(41:32):
it a lot in the last year. You know, little
boys often like play war, they play cowboys and Indians,
you know, they play all these things that they kind
of get to play with that concept of violence. But
I don't think that that's always the case for little girls.
I think a lot of adult women find themselves consuming

(41:52):
true crime in that same like curious.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
Manner, EMII, when you started telling this story through watching
Cris's documentary. I absolutely felt your heart was in the
right place, that your intentions were to genuinely find the
truth and justice for Julia, right.

Speaker 15 (42:11):
Yeah, you know, no good deed goes unpunished.

Speaker 14 (42:14):
I think.

Speaker 15 (42:16):
It's obviously. I think, you know, my heart was in
the right place.

Speaker 16 (42:20):
And I.

Speaker 15 (42:23):
Reflect on my experience in true crime sometimes and understand
why it went so horribly wrong, Because a lot of
people go into true crime, you know, as content creators,
with this idea of creating content, and I think mine
was a little bit backwards, and there are other people
like that where they really have a passion case and

(42:44):
it's not about making the content.

Speaker 9 (42:47):
It's about getting.

Speaker 15 (42:49):
More eyes on the case. It's about answering questions that
still exist.

Speaker 10 (42:56):
It just, you know, I was very naive.

Speaker 15 (43:00):
Fortunately I've lost a bit of that since then, But yeah,
I think that it just it's kind of one of
those things where, you know, it's a hard lesson to
learn not to meddle in other people's affairs, and especially
when it involves the death of someone.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
Chris, did you feel that way as well? When you
meet Emily?

Speaker 14 (43:24):
I met Emily five six years ago. I started listening
to her podcast twenty eighteen, Emily was in season one
and it was one of these things of light lightning
in a bottle where her mile marker one eighty one.
Emily's podcast shot up the iTunes charts. Millions of people
were listening. She was being promoted on some of the

(43:45):
biggest true crime podcasts. And when I had met Emily
in twenty nineteen, it was one of these characters. I
talk about you as a character, Emily, and I know
you're a real person, but it was one of these
She was on a mission and she was passionate about it.
It was a community story, and you know her podcast
and the story and what the community thinks. It raises

(44:09):
all of these questions about miscarriages of justice, murder, nepotism, racism.
It was a perfect story for true crime. And as
we started filming with Emily in twenty nineteen and she
started investigating it, she started hitting dead ends and where
her investigation was going it wasn't leading to what the
family of the victim was saying, it wasn't leading to

(44:31):
what the community was saying. And suddenly we were in
a situation where Emily was faced with the truth of
what happened with Julia and after a thorough investigation that
she had done through. But how you tell that to
Julia's family, how you tell that to a true crime audience.
That was something that caught me off guard of the

(44:54):
dynamics of true crime and what an audience wants. And
when you're doing a real time investigation, you have real
time feedback. And Emily started getting harassed online by listening
and community members who wanted her to go deeper into
this investigation and say things that weren't happening and to
make leaps that weren't happening. And that ethical question was

(45:16):
happening in real time with our film Citizen Sleuth. And
I give Emily a lot of credit for allowing me
and the filmmakers to film her through this very vulnerable process.

Speaker 2 (45:27):
And we didn't know.

Speaker 14 (45:28):
Exactly where this was headed. And it was a very
dramatic conclusion in the ending where you see it in
the film and it play out, and it's something that
we couldn't have recreated. It was happening in front of us,
and those are the best stories where you follow a
journey and it goes And I give Emily a lot
of credit for allowing us to film that journey.

Speaker 3 (45:48):
You're so right, Chris, because I'm sure as a documentary
maker there are there are times when you start projects
and then you kind of go, actually, there isn't there
isn't the act that we need to tell a story
or what we need to follow this through, and that
sort of unexpected twist I suppose in following Emily must

(46:10):
have did it sort of change obviously changed what you
thought the film was going to be.

Speaker 14 (46:16):
Yeah, And I mean there's a scene with the sheriff
where Emily does interview Sheriff Stevens of Wood County and
he walks out of the interview. He didn't like the
tough questions and he says to me and to Emily,
you know, you've lost the valuable resource. And in a
small county like that, the sheriff wields a lot of power.
I thought it was over, like I thought that we

(46:37):
were just going to go home and that there wasn't
any more to do. But Emily kept pushing. And that's
to Emily's credit.

Speaker 15 (46:46):
I didn't have I didn't have the same level of
faith in sheriff's teams that Chris did, who has who
has had to resign from multiple sexual assault allegations, but
I didn't, you know, put as much faith in him
as Kristen.

Speaker 14 (47:05):
I thought, yeah, I thought it was over and this
then it started becoming how does Emily reveal us to
the family? How does Emily reveal us to the audience?
But that wasn't like a pressure cooker in the moment.
It was to Emily, it was how do I get
out of this situation. I have a commitment for a podcast,
I have an audience, I have a very active online

(47:26):
community that's coming at her. How do you get out
of that? And for me as a filmmaker, I'm filming
this in real time. But this was difficult because nobody
wants these worst moments film. But in a way I
felt in it together. But the pressure was on Emily
because she was in front of the camera and she
was in front of the podcast. But I was you know,

(47:48):
in the process, you have faith that the story will
come through and that this, you know, the message of
the film is larger. But in the moments of doing that,
that was not clear. And that wasn't clear until almost
like until we premiered at South By Southwest in twenty
twenty three, when we saw the movie played out in
real time, and it's like, Okay, I think these dots connect.

(48:10):
I think the audience is taking away like going into
a project like this, you don't think, like we're going
to do a film about the ethics of the true
crime genre. That wasn't when we started this. It was
Emily for sure when she started it is we're going
to solve a murder. And when that changes, Like that's
the difference in ethics of like journalism and like people

(48:31):
trying to tell real stories, is you don't go in
with a preconceived notion of where this ends up. And
so we went on the journey and that's a very
painful process to not know what you're filming now know
where her next episode is going to be and when
she's doing it, and her audience is demanding real episodes,
and it just turned into this high pressure pack situation
that played out over years live in front of audiences,

(48:54):
and it turned into the film Citizen Sleuth. And I
think we're both proud of the journey.

Speaker 3 (48:59):
Yeah, that's thank you, Immily for letting Chris continue to
follow follow you because I can imagine this was really
had and we watch you try to deal with that situation.
That difficult line between wanting to do the right thing
and putting things right. But as Chris means, you've become
a podcast sensation. Is this pressure on you from your
audience to keep providing these entertaining episodes? How did you

(49:21):
deal with it?

Speaker 9 (49:24):
Poorly? No, it was It wasn't so much.

Speaker 15 (49:28):
I think for me about disappointing listeners were that had
found the podcast through other true crime podcasts and were
involved in that community. I think the pressure for me
was more disappointing my local community because this started very
much as a local podcast, and you know, I was
living an hour down the road in West Virginia when

(49:50):
I started the podcast, and during the process of that,
I actually moved back into the area of my hometown.
So I was very much local, and the bulk of
listeners came from my own area, and I knew, you know,
I was going to go for hometown hero to really

(50:10):
someone that they would shun out of the community, and
I actually moved out of my area after ending the podcast.
There was a lot of harassment, but I wasn't so
much worried, you know, oh, what will people in true
crime think of me? For me at the local it
was more like, is my safety going to be at risk?
And I knew, having dealt with the family, that there

(50:34):
was going to be a large level of harassment, and
I was, you know, kind of just anticipating the worst.

Speaker 9 (50:43):
And I actually think it's.

Speaker 15 (50:45):
Fair to say, you know, I knew it was going
to be bad, but I actually underestimated how bad that
would get.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
Emily, what did you learn about people making this podcast?
How easy is it to get this simple truth?

Speaker 15 (51:00):
Well, I think you have to first, you know, you
have to actually want to hear it. And I think
I at one point in the dock. You know, a
lot of people think they want the truth, but they
can't handle it when it comes to victims or decedents' families.
There is a level of denial and that's one of
the stages of grief. And I think, you know, you

(51:24):
can sort of expect a level of denial and grappling
with the truth from families, but what I didn't expect
from true crime consumers was and this is always a
question I ask myself, is you know, why do people
want this to be a homicide? Why do people prefer
that there was a miscarriage of justice, that there was

(51:46):
a cover up that there is someone who's been killed
and no justice brought. Why is that an easier truth
for them to accept rather than the truth about that situation,
which is a really ugly one and it's very tragic,
but they they somehow prefer the sensational story. Another thing

(52:07):
I learned about people is just the power of projection,
and I think that that's I've doubled down on that,
having experienced, you know, screenings of the documentary and Q
and a's.

Speaker 9 (52:18):
After the documentary, I.

Speaker 15 (52:20):
Had somebody reach out to me recently on social media
with a lot of projections, and it's you know, when
people consume true crime or this documentary, they're going to
just make assumptions about other people's character. And I know
that that happened to the people that were accused of

(52:40):
murder for over a decade as well. So it's interesting
to see what people project from their own, you know,
internal life on to innocent people.

Speaker 3 (52:51):
I was going to ask you, you know, if people
do enjoy listening to true crime podcasts, what should they
actually be asking themselves before listening to it or getting
addicted to a podcast? Yeah, what would your advice be
to lovers of true crime podcasts.

Speaker 15 (53:05):
Well, don't consume any true crime anymore, and I haven't
for years, because once you see how the community behaves, how.

Speaker 9 (53:15):
Content is made.

Speaker 15 (53:17):
You know, there are people in true crime that don't
even use their real name, you know, and they're acting
in sort of a position of being a journalist. I
don't know that there's any integrity in using a pseudonym
when you're claiming to, you know, be telling truths or
be a reporter of some sort. I think the biggest

(53:38):
question that true crime consumers should ask themselves is, you know,
there's this big conversation that's been happening for about two
years that became very very trendy for content creators and
true crime to start discussing ethics in true crime. And
I've watched from a safe distance as they do that,

(53:59):
and I think the bigger question they need to ask
is is true crime ethical? Because I don't think there's
necessarily any harm in consuming true crime. But we'd be joking,
you know, we'd be kidding ourselves if we could say
that true crime as a genre is inherently like, you know,

(54:20):
that it can be ethical. I think it's inherently.

Speaker 17 (54:24):
Not.

Speaker 15 (54:26):
You know, you're consuming stories about people's violent assaults, rapes, murders,
the worst things that happen to people, and you know,
we're doing it passively while we fold our laundry or
you know, drink a glass of wine after work, while
we you know, draw do a road trip, and you know,
not that there's any harm, but we need to be

(54:47):
a bit more self aware. You know, you're you're joking
if you believe that there's a difference between ethical and
you know, unethical true crime.

Speaker 3 (54:58):
I know it took a lot of courage for you
to put things right. So now how does it feel
to if this documents you released around the world and
you're having to recap the story with people like me?

Speaker 15 (55:08):
You know, honestly, I ten minutes before I hopped on,
I was like, oh, this is you know I have.
I had a friend that was well known for a
really large case and true crime, and we always talked about, oh,
this is the thing we'll be known for is always
the same case. And yeah, there was also a lot

(55:32):
of stuff going on in my personal life during that
time period that was really painful, some traumatic experiences as well.
So I've seen the documentary three times. I have no
interest in watching it. Again because I'm reliving a lot
of other things and I'm still very much you know,
sort of a I joke that I'm a true crime pariah.

(55:53):
Someone anonymously called me that once on Reddit, and I
kind of have adopted that proudly because it's not a
genre that I care if they if they like me
or not. In fact, it's probably better if they don't.
It might say thing about my ethics, but yeah, it's
it's painful every time.

Speaker 3 (56:10):
Yeah, I can't thank you both enough then for taking
that time to do that. I do really appreciate it.
You made an incredible team, and I think you've You've
made us all just think twice about the genre. So
I really appreciate that. Thank you so much both for
your time.

Speaker 6 (56:25):
Thank you so much.

Speaker 14 (56:25):
We really appreciate it.

Speaker 3 (56:27):
Citizensuth Is Sleuth is screening as part of the dock
Edge Festival this week. For more information, doc Edge dot
m Z and Don't Forget the Holy Smith is with
Me after eleving to talk about her new painting career
and taking her new songs on the road. It is
twenty four past ten News talksb.

Speaker 2 (56:45):
Grab re Cover.

Speaker 1 (56:46):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudgin and Wikeles for
the best selection of great reads us Talk ZEDB.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
If you're looking for a book recommendation to get you
through these early early days of winter, then go no
further than Jones Picks at your local Wit Calls. Joan
is their head book buyer and she's also the Sunday
book reviewer on this program. Her job is to find
the books that you will love, and over the years
she's read literally hundreds in search of the latest and greatest,

(57:17):
ranging from outstanding fiction such as Southern Man by Greg
As through to extraordinary true stories like The Boys in
the Boat by Daniel James Brown. The books Joan chooses
are all exceptional in their own way, and that's why
Jones Picks takes the guest work out of deciding what
to read next. Just check out the Jones Picks section

(57:37):
in every Wick Calls store or online for your next
best book. Happy reading with box, games, puzzles, toys, Gorgeous
stationary and Jones Picks. There really is something for everyone
at wit Calls.

Speaker 2 (57:49):
Keep it simple, It's Sundays for Sunday.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wig Calls for the best
selection of the great readings, news talks'd be, but you've found.

Speaker 17 (58:02):
That care.

Speaker 3 (58:07):
Entertainment time now and I'm joined by Steve Neill, editor
at flicks dot co dot m Z and hey, look,
as I just mentioned the dock Age Film Festival, it's
going to kick off on the nineteenth, Am I right, Yes,
that's what I said July, which is really exciting. Duane. Sorry,
we're in June, almost nineteenth of June this coming week.

(58:30):
And look, we took a look at one film, but
there's just I mean, there really is something for everybody.
There's forty three documentaries. There's a whole lot of shorts
in here, lots of different subject matter.

Speaker 18 (58:39):
Absolutely, and you know, it's such a in one sense,
it's kind of a narrow definition of a film festival
having documentaries, but of course that genre just spans all
sorts of different stuff. It's in christ Church, walk On
and Wellington from the nineteenth and then the titles are
also available to watch online nationwide from July fifteen to
thirty one, so if you're not in one of the

(58:59):
main centers, so we got the chance to see the stuff.
I just thought i'd spotlight a couple of these today.
Something I haven't seen yet, but I'm really really at
its world premiere is Scharco. This is Rugby League by
a biography of one of the hardest men to ever
play the game, Mark Graham, probably one of the first
sort of high profile New Zealanders to play rugby league

(59:22):
in Australia. Feared by his opponents, really brutal player, but
as his son will recount in this film, he's as
tough and brutal off the field as.

Speaker 8 (59:34):
He was on it.

Speaker 18 (59:35):
So looking at his dad's career and sort of what
it takes and what the cost of being that kind
of athlete is to him personally and to his family
really quite interesting.

Speaker 3 (59:46):
Yeah, I really enjoyed this documentary. I've taken a look
at it, and Mark actually is a bit of a
gentle giant. He doesn't really want to talk about himself,
and the great thing is that every other big league
name comes on board and tells some fantastic stories. If
you love league, the footage is fantastic. Although I was
saying to Jack Tame today, you know you see a

(01:00:08):
little headnock now and you go, oh that look terrible.
It was nothing compared to what happened on a league
Field in the eighties. These men are bloodied and bruised
and beaten, and.

Speaker 18 (01:00:19):
It's just the coat hanger is like he blows the
mind or watching it.

Speaker 3 (01:00:26):
But as you say, also a really beautiful story about
sons trying to make their fathers proud of them. So
it appeals to a broader audience in just a sports
or a league.

Speaker 18 (01:00:35):
Absolutely now maybe with a bit more of a niche audience.
This next one and definitely a lot less masculine is
The Teachers of Peaches, which I don't know if you're
not familiar with the genre electroclash. So back in the
early two thousands it was kind of a renewed sort
of dance movement. Very vocal led. Peatures was a performer

(01:01:00):
who probably wouldn't feature on any G or PG rated
TV shows, very sexually pockative. The outfit was a pair
of very ill fitting pink hotpants and song titles which
we can't say on the radio, including word redacted, the
pain away lover word redacted. That gives you the kind

(01:01:24):
of just I think this album, The Teachers of Peaches,
came out in two thousand. I was born out of
the Berlin club scene. Although Peatures of South Is from
Canada really took the world by storm. There wasn't such
a kind of sex positive performer then, and this documentary
goes back and looks at the archival footage, some of
the interview stuff from the time, realize how much culture

(01:01:44):
has changed in those twenty years, particularly the sexuality of
female performers. But it's also framed around Peatures getting the
twentieth anniversary tour of this album together. I saw the
show two years ago at the Power Station and it
was remarkable at costuming, songs, performance, taking quite almost a
one note idea that sexual empowerment woman through really party,

(01:02:08):
party drenched pop music and building a much more creative
space out of it. So it's a really great documentary. Yeah,
feminist music and pop performance hasn't seen anything like Peatures.
It's great to celebrate her.

Speaker 7 (01:02:21):
Look.

Speaker 3 (01:02:22):
I'm sure over the next couple of weeks you might
be able to fill us in on a few more goodies,
but if you would like to have a look at
the program here to doc Edge dot NZ. Thank you
so much, Steve. We'll catch up with you next week.
It is twenty six to eleven news talks hereb.

Speaker 1 (01:02:38):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
At b.

Speaker 3 (01:02:44):
And with our science study of the Week. I'm joined
now by nanogirl doctor Michelle dickin sing good morning, Good morning.
You've got a really interesting topic this week. We're going
to talk about space debris and the damage it's causing.

Speaker 17 (01:02:57):
Yeah, and we're going to link it to haspray. So
it's an interesting one and actually it's quite concerning. I
don't know if you remember. Back in the day, we
used to have HESP and it used to have CFC's
and do you remember, like we al used to spray
our hair as high as possible with the biggest curls
on your head. Did you do that, Francesca, No, hair.

Speaker 3 (01:03:18):
Spray for me was always something which was associated with
dancing in ballet and things, and I didn't really enjoy
those buns. So to be honest with you, it wasn't
being on the hairspray.

Speaker 17 (01:03:26):
Well, for many of us, we realized that hair spray
was bad for the atmosphere because they contained something called
c CFC's. They don't do that now, they're very different,
but there was a propellant in there called CFCs, and
you may have been around in the area where CFC's
were banned from lots of things, including hair sprays. They
were in our fringes, our air conditioners because we knew
that they were damaging what's called the ozone layer. Now,
the ozone layer is a gaseous layer that pretty much

(01:03:49):
absorbs almost all of the Sun's harmful UV light. It
protects us on the Earth, not just us from getting
cancer and things, but also all the craps that grow,
the animals, everything on the planet. If we had more
UV would not do very well. And so this ozone
layer is really important. And we found back in the
eighties and nineties that there's a hole in our own
and it was potentially caused by CFCs. So banning the

(01:04:09):
CFC's was great, and now the ozon layer is on
track to heal itself fully within the next fifty years
or so we thought. Sadly, the space industry has sort
of put a glitch in this plan. So there are
these things in space called low Earth orbit satellites. There's
about just over eight thousand of them right now. The

(01:04:30):
most famous ones that you might know, and you may
have seen them in the sky. They're called starlink satellites,
and if you've looked out, you've main seen like a
long line of what looks like stars going through the sky.
And so they're elon Musk's SpaceX system that are designed
to give the whole planet Internet access. What people might
not know is that these low Earth orbit satellites are

(01:04:50):
only designed to last about five years and then the
plan is just litter them, just leave them in space.
Eventually they will just burn up in our atmosphere and
that's apparently fine. Now SpaceX plan to launch another forty
two thousand of these low earth satellites. So our skys
are about to get very cloudy and sort of littered

(01:05:12):
with these things, and nobody's really talking about the consequences.
So here's where the new research comes out, and it's
really important. It's in the paper Geophysical Research Letters. It
was out this week and I think it's massive. And
basically what it says is each of these satellites that
burns up in this atmosphere five years from now, when
they're am no longer needed, they make about thirty kilograms

(01:05:34):
each of aluminium, and this aluminium is in the form
of nanoparticles as it burns up and they're going to
enter our atmosphere and they're going to react with our
ozone layer, and they're going to react with chlorine in
our ozone layer, which has come from the CFC's chlorofluorocarbon.
So our old hairspring days has meant that we've left

(01:05:55):
chlorine up there that's going to last around one hundred years.
And now these satellite that are burning up are reacting
with that chlorine from our past days and they are
destroying the ozonela. And what's worse is the aluminium is
not used up in this reaction, so once it's in
our system, it's going to keep burning and destroying our
ozone layer.

Speaker 19 (01:06:15):
And that's going to continue. And nobody's telling you what
about this until this paper, and I'm going, oh my gosh,
this is a total disaster, so Massive Sciences, it's not
a happy ending. I'm afraid it's just sort of an
awareness thing.

Speaker 17 (01:06:27):
Have I read of the paper. It's really interesting and
I think it's about time we start thinking about space
litter and what the consequences are for the planet.

Speaker 3 (01:06:34):
Yeah, well, look on our small bright side. I think
that New Zealand DO is pretty much leading the way
when it comes to its commitment to the responsible use
of space. I think actually we've got probably one of
the best policies for debris removal, and I think that
it's sort of included in our in how we're to
do business. And they are kind of leading the way

(01:06:56):
when it comes to sustainable space excess and designing sustainable
and cost effective techniques removing space debris. I've done a
few interviews with them, a few American authors who've commented
actually at how food we are in that respect. So
we'll hold on to that. Michelle fingers crossed. Yeah, we

(01:07:18):
get that debris sorted. Big week at Field Days. Mike
vander Elsen gives us his report and a fabulous recipe
next year on news Talks at.

Speaker 2 (01:07:26):
B There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:07:30):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rutkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great breaths used talks at the.

Speaker 3 (01:07:37):
Resident Chef Mike vanda Elsen is with us.

Speaker 7 (01:07:40):
Good morning, top of the morning.

Speaker 3 (01:07:43):
How was Field Days? Did you buy a tractor?

Speaker 7 (01:07:46):
It was no, I didn't, but I can tell you
there were some very impressive ones there and very and
very very large though very big.

Speaker 3 (01:07:55):
Did it all go well?

Speaker 2 (01:07:57):
It was great?

Speaker 12 (01:07:58):
It was great.

Speaker 7 (01:07:59):
Yes, the first day I think it was a little
bit quiet on Thursday, which was Wednesday. Thursday was fantastic.
Friday at Raindoord and I actually got stuck driving into
the car park and I was like, well, what's it
going to be like when I leave? And so I
thought I would leave early on Friday because I wasn't
there on Saturday, and so I left earlier. Two managed
to get out of the car park. I was like, yes,

(01:08:20):
I'm home free. And then there was that unfortunate accident
in Empden Downs. I wasn't home free. I was stuck
in traffic for another two hours. Anyway, it was good.

Speaker 3 (01:08:30):
Oh good glad you had a week, but good week. Hey,
I just want to go back to Monday night as well,
because you were in the city Mission Cookoff. I know
we spoke about it last weekend, but you guys did
so well. An incredible job, an amazing job of raising
funds for such a good cause.

Speaker 7 (01:08:46):
Two hundred thousand dollars we raised that night on Monday.

Speaker 2 (01:08:50):
You know, it was just great.

Speaker 5 (01:08:51):
And it wasn't.

Speaker 7 (01:08:52):
I wasn't I was. I was part of the cooking team.
It was the CEOs that actually raised all that money,
you know, and we had we had CEOs from like
Chapman Trip where Panasonic venta Fonterra Willis. You know, they
were just all incredibly passionate but like super super energized

(01:09:13):
people to be around because they knew what we were
doing that day. And I would imagine it's quite hard
being a CEO of a company like down it and
then suddenly getting told to hurry up because you're going
too slow by a chef.

Speaker 3 (01:09:26):
I'm sure we did it so nicely though, or were
you right back to shift mode?

Speaker 17 (01:09:31):
Ah?

Speaker 7 (01:09:31):
No, it was great. And I tell you, out of
one hundred and fifty homeless people, I'd say one hundred
and forty nine of them came up to me afterwards.
And it's such a positive, wonderful thing to be part of,
you know. It's yeah, it makes it all worthwhile, you know,
all the hard work that we do when they come
up afterwards, because you know, they just appreciated it, you know,
to be able to sit down and be fed, be

(01:09:54):
served a three course meal, you know, it was just
something quite special for them and to and to raise
all that money. So yes, it was a cool night.

Speaker 3 (01:10:01):
It was a cool night, so you've got to resp
me today for us. Whitch is part of the entree
that you served from the night. We're going to do
yogurt to flatbreads with cory andder butter and roasted beetroot hummus.
We're going to put both recipes up on our website,
but maybe you could take us through the hummus.

Speaker 7 (01:10:16):
Yes, easy, so this will make enough. I'll probably make
about lisa or formus. So you need two cups of
chickpeas that you soaked overnight in water, and then you
take two whole beetroop. Preheat your oven. Check it on
to about one hundred and eighty two whole beatroot.

Speaker 8 (01:10:31):
If you want to.

Speaker 7 (01:10:32):
Speed it up, just cut the beetrod in half, put
them inside tinfoil. Don't worry about peeling them are just
put them inside tinfoil. Sprinkle a little bit of salt
over the top, put a little bit of cooking all
over the top, wrap them up tight, fire them in
the oven. They're going to be in there for about
thirty to forty minutes, depending on the size, and so
you want to test them after say thirty minutes and
open up tinfoil. If your knife passes through them nice

(01:10:53):
and easily like a potato, like cooked potato, then they're
all good. So just open them up, let them cool down.
While they're cooking, you can drain your chickpeas. Fire them
into a pot of water. I always put in a
decent amount of salt. Never cook your chickpeas unseasoned water.
Put in a little bit of salt, and then I
always put in a little teaspoon of baking powder, and
that just helps to soften the chickpeas up and makes

(01:11:14):
the hommus at the end far softer. So bring them
to the ball. Cook your chickpeas. Once the chickpeas are cooked,
you can drain them. Peel your beetroots, so once it's
cooled down, you literally just peel the skin off. It
just rubs off in your fingers. Put some gloves on
if you don't want to have bright colored beetrooed hands.
At the end of it, fire them into a food

(01:11:35):
processor and blitz them with the chickpeas. Two tablespoons of tarhini,
which is sesame seed paste, and I put in like
half teaspoon, and it's up to your half teaspoon of
curry powder, so it's like that adds a sort of
a vibrance to the beetrooed hummus, and then season up
a little bit of salt and just blitz that until

(01:11:55):
it's smooth. If you find it's a little bit too
dry and the blend is finding it hard, just add
in a little bit of water just to loosen it up,
and fire that into the fridge and that will stay
good in the fridge for about five or six days.

Speaker 3 (01:12:05):
Wonderful. Thank you so much, Mike. I hope you've got
a slightly more relaxing week ahead of you. That's we'll
put those two recipes on our website News talksb dot
co dot nz Ford Slash Sunday. But also you can
also find them a good from scratch dot co dot
in z. I'm next. The sawn has been making a

(01:12:26):
bit of a comeback, hasn't it, So just how good
are they for us? We'll find out next here on
the Sunday Session Sunday with Style.

Speaker 1 (01:12:34):
The Sunday Session with Francesca Runken and Wiggles for the
best selection of great Reads.

Speaker 2 (01:12:40):
News Talk seb.

Speaker 3 (01:12:49):
Our guest is Aaron O'Hara Natrapath, good morning, Good morning,
and our welles section today we're going to talk about
saunas and they have become a lot more popular. You're
hearing a lot of people talking about sawners these days.

Speaker 20 (01:13:01):
Yeah, there's different sauna sort of recovery centers sitting up
all over the place, you know, promoting the health benefits
of saunas, which can come from you know, post exercise
recovery to reducing stress, also helping with aches and pains
and just general relaxation. And they're setting up as just
you know, infrared saunas. Sometimes the traditional finish hot sauna

(01:13:25):
steam rooms.

Speaker 3 (01:13:26):
You need to explain this to me because when I
think is sauna, I just think of throwing the water
on the you know, on the coals or something that
the steam and it heats up.

Speaker 20 (01:13:34):
That's a finish sauna, and that's like the traditional sauna. Actually,
saunas have been round for thousands of years, and the
Mayans used to create sweat houses, which would be like
a cave where they'd light a fire, sit in there
and sweat, and obviously it's evolved over the years. A
lot of these saunas, the traditional saunas had come from
more Northern Europeans sort of culture. The Finnish sauna is

(01:13:58):
really really hot. The temperature of those sorts of saunas
would be between seventy and one hundred degrees, which is
like cooking yourself, but really hot, so you can create
a lot of internal heat and then.

Speaker 3 (01:14:09):
Sweat a lot.

Speaker 20 (01:14:10):
And then it's really evolved over the years to more
an electric sauna where you can just turn it on,
doesn't have that sort of wood sort of scent to it,
really effective. And then infrared saunas, which is probably the
real hit thing at the moment and been around for
quite a while, probably than our last sort of twenty
to thirty years. Infrared saunas which are more a low

(01:14:32):
heat kind of sauna, and it has infrared light rays
that emit low electrical magnetic field, so it actually heats
the body directly rather than just the air around you,
and you actually sweat a lot in infrared sauna. Max
views on those infrared saunas. Obviously they do have an
electrical frequency to them. Not everyone likes that concept, but

(01:14:55):
they are really effective in making you sweat a lot,
even more than those sort of finish saunas that are
really really hot, but there's lots of benefits to these saunas.
They're not for everyone. Some people don't like to be
heated up really really hot, but they can be really
helpful just as a nice relaxing sort of session, reducing stress,

(01:15:15):
reducing inflammation. There were some studies done around sort of
inflammation conditions like arthritis and how they can help to
improve pain and stiffness and reduce fatigue in people with arthritis.
It wasn't a super significant study, but still showed some
benefits to doing these sorts of things for reducing inflammation

(01:15:35):
in the body. Also can be helpful for things like
zorisis dermatitis, things where we've got skin conditions. There's a
lot of dryness helping with detoxification creating more moisture into
the skin.

Speaker 3 (01:15:47):
So are there any risks or precautions? I mean, if
if there's some people who maybe shouldn't be in a sauna.

Speaker 20 (01:15:52):
Yeah, definitely, Like if you're pregnant or breastfeeding, absolutely saunas
are not for you. Way too much dehydration which is
not great for baby or creating milk for breastfeeding. Also elderly,
too much dehydration and can make them feel faint or weak. Also,
if you have really high blood pressure, not really a
great idea to be changing a body temperature or doing

(01:16:14):
things like in these post recovery centers that also have
like the sauna and then the.

Speaker 3 (01:16:19):
Cold ice bath.

Speaker 20 (01:16:20):
And if you do have a card of vascular condition,
probably not a good idea to go from hot to cold.
It's going to change your blood pressure. Also not going
to be great on the heart.

Speaker 3 (01:16:29):
I love it, thank you so much. Erin the old sauna.
You wouldn't mind giving the old sauna a go again.
Special It's just it's winter. It just sounds nice, sounds
pleasant and slightly cheaper than taking myself to drop Gle Island.
It is a five to eleven news talksb Grab Recover.

Speaker 1 (01:16:45):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of grains used talk zed be.

Speaker 3 (01:16:52):
The amazing Holly Smith is up next, and yes we're
going to talk music and her new tour, which is
a must for fans because it is so small and intimate.
But we're also going to talk about how her love
for painting has turned into an exhibition and why she's
branching out creatively. Holly Smith is with us next here
on Newstorksed be Wow, no cry?

Speaker 9 (01:17:14):
Hi were little sister, No shame?

Speaker 7 (01:17:21):
No tea.

Speaker 3 (01:17:25):
He Hello, cray woman, No cry? HOI woman cry, Hey,

(01:17:46):
little sister.

Speaker 15 (01:17:48):
No shame, no cheese.

Speaker 3 (01:17:53):
O ho man, no cry.

Speaker 1 (01:17:59):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wiggles
for the best selection of great reeds.

Speaker 2 (01:18:05):
Used to Talk.

Speaker 3 (01:18:18):
News Talk zedby. This is a Sunday session seven past eleven.
I'm Francisco Rudkin with you until midday. Really good to
have you with us, right keep. Musician Holly Smith is
well known for her music, but it turns out she's
a woman with hidden talents. Turns out Holly is a
bit of a painter and need to diversify from music.
She currently has an art exhibition open in Auckland called

(01:18:38):
It's Not Music. The music hasn't been checked aside, though.
She's also heading out on a small venue tour of
New Zealand later this month. For a bit of a
catch up, Holly Smith joins me. Now, hey, Holly, good morning.

Speaker 9 (01:18:51):
How are you doing.

Speaker 3 (01:18:52):
I'm really good? Have you always painted?

Speaker 21 (01:18:55):
Yeah?

Speaker 9 (01:18:56):
I've always been artistick. Yeah, I did a lot of
I mean I did at school and then sort of
they've always painted since then, but you know, sort of
depending on where I'm living and how much space they
have and all that kind of thing. So sometimes not
for a few years and then other times quite a bit.
So yeah, just along or a timeline as it happens.

Speaker 3 (01:19:16):
What have you mostly painted for this exphibition?

Speaker 9 (01:19:19):
Mainly female form? Always really enjoyed painting woman. Yes, so
mainly kind of nude, slightly different perspectives, sort of slightly
different viewpoints and body shapes that might be sort of
your more classical kind of female form type paintings, but yeah,
all different shapes and sizes.

Speaker 3 (01:19:40):
Basically are they you have you? Are they self portraits?

Speaker 9 (01:19:43):
There's a few of me, Yeah, I took a few
of me, and I've got photos of several friends as well,
who I may get naked, brilliant.

Speaker 3 (01:19:56):
What do you love about a nude?

Speaker 9 (01:19:58):
Just the shapes and you know, I just love the
different sort of perfections and imperfections of you know, different
curves and in shapes and things. And you know there's
my own imperfections of hands and feet, which I'm still
learning how to do.

Speaker 3 (01:20:14):
Yeah, I can have met Yeah, hands and feet are tracking.
I'm terrified of a white piece of paper. So you
know the fact that you know you've got something down
on papers amazing. How has a bit of painting at
home turned into an exhibition?

Speaker 9 (01:20:27):
Well, it was kind of sort of the other way
around July. I mean music's been super quiet, you know,
the industry is still really struggling sort of well post
COVID instead of with all of those weather events that
happened that kind of first summer back into it, and
I recently moved back to my house in Totong, so
I'm just on my own down here and just had
a lot of time on my hands, and I really

(01:20:48):
just needed another sort of creative outlet to focus and
have a bit of a routine during the day. So
I talked to Haley King, who's an artist known as Flocks.
She has a gallery in Auckland when I'm showing it,
and I showed her some things and she was like, hey,
why don't we do an exhibition? And then I sort
of was Okay, let's do it sooner rather than later.
And then you know, I've got I work well with deadlines,

(01:21:10):
so you know, when we sort of established that, and
I knew I just had to paint every day, so
it was more of an exercise of discipline and routine
and sort of more than actually wanting to show my stuff.
That was I just needed something, a finish line to
motivate me to be creative every day.

Speaker 3 (01:21:28):
And now it is an exhibition and it's opened. How's
it going.

Speaker 9 (01:21:33):
It's odd. I've had some really lovely feedback. You know,
some of my friend and family have seen some of
my work before, but I've never painted on the scale before.
So there's about eighteen pieces there. So yeah, it's really great.
I mean the reception I heard from the opening evening
was really lovely. It's really lovely feedback in a few sales,

(01:21:54):
and so that was a surprise. I mean I was
talking to Hailey at one point about pricing and stuff,
and she's like, okay, well, when you sell something like, oh,
I don't think I'm sound, it's not right what you well,
but it's what we're hoping for when we're going. Uh okay.
I mean yeah, so far, so good.

Speaker 3 (01:22:12):
So fantastic. I love the fact that the exhibition is
simply called it's not music.

Speaker 9 (01:22:18):
Yeah, well there was a few other sort of more
philosophical names sort of throwing around, and then yeah, I
think me and Hailey had a bit of a wine
and a discussion about it, and I was like, let's
just keep it sleeper, simple and everyone knows what's happening
and it's not music.

Speaker 12 (01:22:33):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:22:34):
Yeah, And how good was the opening when you turned
up and you suddenly realize, h I don't have to sing,
I don't have to perform it.

Speaker 9 (01:22:42):
It was like the funnest ggever. Of course I love performing,
but it was really nice. It was sort of it
felt like being at one of my gigs and I
just didn't actually have to do anything and I just
got to hang out with lots of really lovely people.
So yeah, it was great.

Speaker 3 (01:22:58):
So is art a lucrative business, Holly.

Speaker 9 (01:23:01):
I don't think anything in the arts in New Zealander
is particularly lucrative these days. I don't know. Yeah, it's
it's definitely, you know, I wouldn't be following up art
as in that regard. It's it would be jumping from
the thron pan into the fire.

Speaker 3 (01:23:16):
I think I saw that you est made. You made
about one hundred and eighty dollars in global streaming sales
last year.

Speaker 9 (01:23:23):
Is that correct going through the statements? Yeah, I mean,
obviously I have a label, so you know that's I
don't really get any anything because it's all on a
recoupable However, Yeah, going through my statements, it looked like
I was getting about, yeah, forty fifty quarter. But then
I don't have large streaming numbers either, so you know

(01:23:45):
that obviously can vary quite significantly with different artists, but
in New Zealand, you know, most most people would be
on the lower lower level of streaming numbers, apart from
the people that you would expect.

Speaker 3 (01:23:57):
Yeah, it's interesting what you mentioned before. You know that
you're after COVID and everybody's live stop and you couldn't tour,
and you couldn't attend festivals, and and then of course
we had the weather events. There's been an ongoing impact
from that, hasn't there. I mean, has the music industry
and the sort of the touring industry for local artists

(01:24:18):
has it fully recovered yet?

Speaker 12 (01:24:21):
Oh?

Speaker 9 (01:24:21):
Absolutely not. No, No, it's in a pretty diet and
pretty dire shape at them. Innute, what's that? What's those
weather events coming back in to COVID, you know, like
that was most of our summer's canceled, which is obviously
normally eighty percent of our income, but just a lot
of the smaller promoters who do it for the love
of burd and kind of you know, just to break

(01:24:42):
even and to you know, have events like that on
and and other sort of smaller venues, and you know,
just sort of across the board, there was a lot
of people who just couldn't continue to to do it.
So and you know, obviously with the global industry being impacted,
we have a lot more internationals, you know, including New

(01:25:03):
Zealand on their tours, which just means that you know,
obviously people you know, save a lot of money to
go to those bigger shows and that's kind of their
entertainment budget for however many months, and so yeah, it's
it's a really strategic, strategic time and you know, obviously
trying to diversify. I'm doing a lot more mentoring and
teaching and things which I enjoy doing, you know, And

(01:25:27):
but yeah, I mean I'm picking up other work when
I can, just trying to make ends meet. Really it's yeah,
it's financially not not a great time to be in
the art sector at this point, and so.

Speaker 3 (01:25:38):
Holly that that's the kind of experience that most musicians
are having in the industry.

Speaker 9 (01:25:43):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I haven't talked to anyone who's having
a wonderful time of it, but you know, you've obviously
got artists who you know, work on a slightly different
scales than most. So yeah, I don't I don't know
of anyone who's who's not sort of struggling with things
at the minute.

Speaker 3 (01:26:00):
How can people support local artists? What is the best
way to to financially try and support them? Is it
about streaming? Is it about buying vinyl?

Speaker 17 (01:26:11):
What?

Speaker 3 (01:26:11):
What is it these days? Is it about going and
seeing them when they do when they do head out
into it?

Speaker 9 (01:26:16):
Yeah, I mean not just encourage. You know, if you
do enjoy an artist and they're coming through your areas,
and you know, just try and try and get along
and support. If you've got you know, extra means, go
go find their website and see if there's any merchandise
that you can support. I mean, streaming obviously is great
in the way people are generally, you know, listening to

(01:26:37):
music these days, but you know, those numbers are so
so very small, that you know, they're not They're not
really going to make a huge difference unless about eight
other million people join you. So yeah, just just you know,
if you have a love for New Zealand music or
some's artists you enjoy, then just just see what they've
got going on and if there's any way that you

(01:26:57):
can help them directly. A lot of people are doing
sort of fund me type things for albums or you
know whatever else, so a few different ways you can
look into how you can support locally.

Speaker 3 (01:27:11):
Yeah, Now, I can't think of anything better than coming
to a small, intimate venue and hearing you perform. And
that's what you were doing. You're heading out on tour
with the Bones Tour two. What happened to Bones to
A one was to one.

Speaker 9 (01:27:24):
So basically, much like I was talking about the art exhibition, really,
I sort of just needed to get a bit more
disciplined and have a bit more routine on a daily basis,
because you know, normally I'd be away every weekend and
prepping every week for different things and working on admin
and all those kind of things. So at the moment,
so last year when I got back here, I just

(01:27:44):
sort of I'm going to put a tour on and
I'm just going to play entirely new songs and so
I have to write moles songs before then. So I
took all new songs on the road and just complete
essentially the bones of so just you know, brand new
songs that haven't been developed or produced or anything. You know,
very very basic lines of things, some not even finished,

(01:28:08):
some lyrics not finished, you know, so just really quite
personal and intimate and talking through what the songs were
about and what sort of inspired them, and you know,
so it gets it got quite you know, sort of
quite personal a lot of things. So basically I'm just
doing that again, are fe more songs to add? And then?

Speaker 3 (01:28:26):
That was really beneficial? Did you find that as a
song writer that the sort of the response that you
got from the audience and thing that kind of informed
you as to where things were going right when something
might need to I mean, to be going out and
doing that again. Do you do you just love that
intimacy or actually is it also really helpful for you
as an artist?

Speaker 9 (01:28:45):
Sort of across the board, It's sort of a few
different things. It's really nice to be in an environment
where because you know, like the minimum amount of people
is like fifty people. I think the maximum ven is
like two hundred or something, so super super small, you know,
like almost to the point where for me, it's like
just sort of sitting in my lounge room and having
a bunch of people over listening to some stuff, which
obviously I never do, but it's that kind of vibees.

(01:29:08):
So I'm sort of talking and we're talking to each other,
and you know, like there's almost conversations happening at the
same time, and so it's really nice getting to know
an audience in a more intimate setting as well, and
and just getting really nice feedback from the songs and
sort of thinking, yeah, what works and what connects with people,
and you know what doesn't.

Speaker 3 (01:29:31):
But we just we throw that, We throw that whole
idea about We talk about the importancy of being authentic,
don't we in this decade? You know, we go on
and on about it. But actually, how nice is it
for a fan to have that kind of honest, genuine
connection with an artist that they love. That's quite hard

(01:29:53):
to kind of achieve these days, especially when you know,
as you say, you might be going to see your
favorite band in a massive stadium and you know, like
that's actually quite a treat for a fan.

Speaker 15 (01:30:05):
Yeah.

Speaker 9 (01:30:05):
Well, I definitely haven't had any need negative reviews regarding
the shows the first time around. You know, all of
them were sold out, and just had people really really
appreciative of opening up about particular things and that people
could relate to and them you know, sort of finding
it quite therapeutic to understand that people are going through

(01:30:25):
the same things and all that kind of sort of
commentad ay and when you actually share stories and realize
how many people are going through the same things. So yeah,
I had some really lovely, you know, real personal commentary
back from it all as well. And you know, I
need to get on the road. I need to keep
working for a number of different reasons, obviously if I
actually being one of them, but just to stay you know,

(01:30:48):
like just vocally. Over the last few years, I found
it really difficult because I haven't had enough shows in
my voices just not where it should be at all.
You know, even for practicing at home is never going
to be the same as performing, So to keep your
chops up and you had to try and get through
these sort of vocal issues I've been having. I just
sort of need to keep active and keep my voice

(01:31:09):
exercising because otherwise, Yeah, it's it's been quite difficult in
that regard as well, and being a you know, sort
of touring musician my whole life, to all of a
sudden not really be singing much. It's made quite an impact.
So it's also it's also that that I'm focusing on
this tour as well.

Speaker 3 (01:31:27):
I did chuckle at the fact that it starts at
seven thirty so that you can be home and in bed.
You're a woman after my own heart. I appreciate that.

Speaker 9 (01:31:35):
Well. The thing is, when you're touring for a vocalist,
it's really not rock and roll. I mean, that's what's
really hard when you're touring with the Banes stuff, because
everyone's having fun and like talking and hanging out and laughing,
and you're just going, I can't talk because I've got
to rest my voice for the shows. And so it's
actually quite nice to sort of being able to go, Okay,

(01:31:56):
have the show, go how I'm heaven any night. It's
just sort of, you know, as many shows as I'm
doing in a short amount of time as well, I
just really need to make sure I'm looking after myself
physically and so it's incredibly unrotten roll, very unrotten roll.
So it's generally the most sober slash unpartying tour one

(01:32:18):
can imagine. Generally, I just get home and go to
bed and it's great.

Speaker 22 (01:32:22):
Ah.

Speaker 5 (01:32:23):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:32:23):
Hey, Holly, thank you so much for your time today
and best of luck with both the exhibition and the tour.

Speaker 21 (01:32:28):
Enjoy.

Speaker 9 (01:32:29):
Thank you so much, thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 (01:32:30):
That was artist Holly Smith. Her It's Not Music exhibition
is on now until June twenty seventh at Eyes on
Fire Gallery in Auckland. The Bones Tour too, opens in
Fideanga on June twenty eighth. For more information and dates,
you can head to Hollysmith dot co dot Nz.

Speaker 2 (01:32:50):
Relax, it's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (01:32:52):
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Speaker 1 (01:33:50):
All the highs and lows talking the big issues of
the week the panel on the Sunday Session.

Speaker 3 (01:33:56):
Yes and joining me on the panel today we have
broadcaster and journalist Willemina Shrimpton. Good morning, Wilhelmina, good morning,
have you Sunday, And we've got Ed McKnight resident Economy. Now,
how do I sw this?

Speaker 18 (01:34:08):
It opis opis partners, ope.

Speaker 3 (01:34:11):
Opea's partners. Let's get that correct. Great to have you
with us.

Speaker 17 (01:34:14):
Ed.

Speaker 3 (01:34:14):
Let's start with mining. We had a conversation this morning
with a geologist who said, really, if we are going
to benefit from all the wonderful things that critical minerals
give us in our lives, we really should do our
share of the mining. What's your thoughts on this? Will Ameina?

Speaker 4 (01:34:30):
Oh?

Speaker 21 (01:34:30):
I tend to agree, and I want to preface this
by saying, look, I'm not pro mining, but I also
completely agree and say that I don't really think that
it's fair to cack up a stink about mining and
then happily consume minerals that have been mined off shore.

Speaker 3 (01:34:43):
I kind of feel like that stamping our feet.

Speaker 21 (01:34:44):
And going look, out of sight, out of mind, it's
not as long as it's not in our backyard has
a bit of an air of hypocrisy, and I think
we kind of need to ask ourselves, would we rather
do things in a more sustainable way on our own
shores or alternatively forfeit the use of those minerals all together.
I don't think we can actually say no, it's not
going to happen here and then continue using those ones

(01:35:06):
from overseas.

Speaker 3 (01:35:08):
I just don't think it's a fair stance to take.
At least, it's a good it's good to broaden the
conversation ed right from just mining as good or mining
as bad.

Speaker 23 (01:35:17):
Well, I think there is a bit of a misperception
that mining is anti planet, but in many ways, mining
these specific mirnerals is going to make the planet better
because we need them to aid our transition to a
more sustainable planet. You know, you think your phones, your laptops,
your electric cars, all of these things require these minerals

(01:35:38):
that we need to dig out of the ground. And
so actually going and getting the minerals out and using them,
that's going to be pro planet because it helps us
in that eco energy transition.

Speaker 3 (01:35:48):
I tend to think we have to we have to
pitch in and do our bit. And it's also fantastic
for areas of the country who have relied on mining
for a long period of time. But I'd also like
to think Willhelmina that we're putting gold standard practices of
mining in place.

Speaker 21 (01:36:03):
One hundred percent, and I don't think that things would
continue the way that they have historically. And it's painted
in this really awful light that it's completely evil, and
I think we need to chat to look at it
as a necessary evil.

Speaker 3 (01:36:13):
It's not actually even completely evil.

Speaker 21 (01:36:14):
Because as practices develop and they evolve. Obviously, we are
so much more conscious of the planet and nothing can
be done without having some impact on the environmental footprint
and our carbon footprint. But of course mining practices will
be implementing greener protocols to try and offset that impact.

(01:36:34):
I think ultimately as well, we need to look at
the benefit to our economy. And you look at Australia
right like they are a mining country. Mining is a
huge part, contributing part to their economy and the standard
of living. Look, obviously it's really tough. It's tough everywhere,
but I know that things are a lot cheaper over there.
The cost of food is so much cheaper. To live
day to day is a lot easier. And I wonder

(01:36:57):
whether we implement these practices, whether you know that we
jobs pumping more into our economy, the fact is that
people are really struggling at the moment, and I just
don't think that we can sit by and not implement
something that's going to help us in the long term.
And also with those greener kind of standards that we
were talking about, you know, evs and the like, so

(01:37:18):
ed the question then is how do you balance the
economic benefits the ethical and environmental concerns.

Speaker 23 (01:37:25):
Well, I think the main thing is you've got to
do it right. So if we go in and get
these minerals out, and we dig up rocks and grass
and ground, we've got to put it back the way
it was when we got there. So it's really important
that if we are going to dig up the minerals
over here in New Zealand, that we replace the trees
and the natural environment back to the standard that it was.

(01:37:45):
That's how you do mining the right way.

Speaker 3 (01:37:47):
Okay, guys, let's move on to the MPs and the
accommodation allowance. That little story that just will not go
away because more and more people seem to be coming
out of the wood workers as doing nothing wrong. Let's
be fair. They're sticking to the rules. They're taking what
they're entitled to. Politics comes down to perception, doesn't it.

(01:38:09):
Ed you're a property investor, what would you do. Would
you make the most of the rules or would you
be thinking about perception?

Speaker 23 (01:38:17):
Well, personally, I'd be thinking about perception. But the funny
thing is that even if you say that you're not
allowed to use this allowance to rent your own home,
it's not going to save the taxpayer any money, because
then what I do in this case is just go
rent somewhere else and rent my own property out. But
what's interesting is when you think about the perception side.
I was reading through the comments in the New Zealand

(01:38:39):
Herald website today. It seems like there are a lot
of people out there who are of a similar view
where you just say, but if you take this away,
they're just going to go use taxpayer money to rent
somebody else's house, and the house they're currently saying, and
they'll just rent out to someone else.

Speaker 3 (01:38:53):
It's a bit of a tricky one, doesn't It will
amina one hundred percent.

Speaker 21 (01:38:57):
Look, politics is a perception game. The whole premise of
it is about objects.

Speaker 12 (01:39:03):
Right.

Speaker 21 (01:39:03):
That's why people vote for politicians because it's how they
perceived in the public. And look, obviously there will be
a massaging of whatever happens if the rules do change.
But down the track, it's just going to come to
light that they've managed to find some kind of loophole
and we're going to be going through this entire conversation
all over again. I just think forty two thousand dollars

(01:39:25):
for a year is a lot. I was thinking about
it this morning and going, you know what, that's a
thousand bucks a week. And I kind of think about
the price that I was paying for a three bedroom
home that I had in Sandringham that I was renting
up until very recently, and that was nine hundred bucks
a week, And I mean, it would be great to
go cool. I can pay my nine hundred bucks a week,
I have a hundred bucks left over for supermarket shopping,

(01:39:48):
and you know that would cover all of my necessities.

Speaker 3 (01:39:52):
So I just I don't know.

Speaker 21 (01:39:53):
I've been the general public doesn't get all of their
living accommodation costs paid for as part of their I
guess work perks. I just don't really think that in
this particular time, in the middle of a cost of
living crime, I just don't think it's a good thing.

Speaker 3 (01:40:08):
Do you think when the election rolls around, though, ed,
that this is going to be in the forefront of
people's minds. I mean, obviously it's a perception thing, but
do you think it's that the voters will actually change
their mind on who they vote for depending on this.
I have a funny bit it'll kind of just be
done and dealt with and sort of sweept under the carpet.
There'll be more, there'll be other things that voters actually

(01:40:29):
thinking about as opposed to this.

Speaker 23 (01:40:31):
Yeah, I tend to agree with you. I think this
is going to be a story that's around for a
week maybe, and then it'll go away and in a
couple of years it will come back. But the thing is,
you really want some sort of accommodation supplement in there
for MPs who don't live in Wellington, because let's say
you take it away, then only really rich people or
people with a lot of money are able to become
MPs and actually get down to Wellington and do the job.

(01:40:54):
And so it's really important that there is some sort
of accommodation allowance so that anybody can become an MP.

Speaker 17 (01:41:01):
And it's not just for the rich, all right, you two.

Speaker 3 (01:41:04):
Apparently a lot of keywis ac up in the communal
viewing experience that is married at first sight in New Zealand.
There people are now writing articles about why we're turning
to this media and what it says about us as
a culture and things like that. I can honestly say
I can't do it. I don't have a problem with
dating shows. I'm going to put my hand up right
now and say love Love Island UK. But I can't

(01:41:28):
do maths because I don't feel like it's got the
participant's best interests at heart, So I don't jump on
board this. Are you on board? Willhelmina?

Speaker 21 (01:41:37):
Look, I have to admit I did try to watch
the Australian one and I gave up halfway through because
I just couldn't donate that.

Speaker 3 (01:41:45):
Much of my life to the cause because I think
it's something like an.

Speaker 21 (01:41:48):
Hour episode for four or five nights. I know, I'm
kind of I'm unsubscribing from this unsubscribing from this chat just.

Speaker 9 (01:41:57):
Because it's too much time.

Speaker 21 (01:41:58):
And to be honest, I think the New Zealand wants
just a little low budget and I like you say,
I mean you kind of get the gest that there's
maybe one legit couple and the rest of them are
there for show and there for drama.

Speaker 3 (01:42:09):
I love that, Wilhelmina. It's just not high quality enough
for me. What about you?

Speaker 16 (01:42:14):
Ed?

Speaker 2 (01:42:15):
You are what Chuelty pleasure? I absolutely love it?

Speaker 23 (01:42:19):
And the figure is it's terrible, right, Like, it's nothing
like the UK or the Australian one. It is a
bit low budget and it's really cringe. But I think
that's why we love it, because you either know somebody
on there, or you could know somebody on there. There's
people from Kitty Kitty or Hamilton and Auckland and christ
Church and you think that could be me, Well, that

(01:42:40):
could be someone I know. And I think that's why
you kind of look at it as a bit of voyeurism.

Speaker 3 (01:42:45):
Oh, I love it. You can buy ed, you can
come back. Lovely to have you on your first panel,
Thank you for your honesty and always great to talk
to you. To Wilhelmina Shrimpton. That was the panel. Here
up next Jason Pine, who will be He will be
mourning the Rugby last night, but here I can guarantee
you will be as chipper as ever. It is twenty

(01:43:05):
five to two.

Speaker 1 (01:43:11):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at b.

Speaker 22 (01:43:25):
Well.

Speaker 3 (01:43:26):
I think Jason Pine's heart might have broken just a
little bit last night. Of course, Jason's coming out at
midday with weekend sport. Hi piney, I am unavailable.

Speaker 17 (01:43:35):
Do you know what?

Speaker 3 (01:43:36):
I almost text you at about six thirty three last
night just to check you're okay, and then I was
watching the tears on the Hurricanes faces as they just
sort of dealt with the the end of this season.
I thought, I just can't do it. I can't, I can't.
I'm not gonna I'm not gonna rub it in just yet.

Speaker 7 (01:43:55):
I thank you for that.

Speaker 11 (01:43:55):
I thank you for that.

Speaker 8 (01:43:57):
I do.

Speaker 11 (01:43:57):
Look, it was a I mean, the Chief deserved to one.
They played a terrific game of rugby. Hurricanes have had
a good season, you know, but it seemed one rung short.
So I guess now it falls to your Blues to
try and win Super Rugby. For I think it'll be
the first time since two thousand and three since the
Blues have one Super Rugby.

Speaker 3 (01:44:16):
Does that sound right? Probably?

Speaker 12 (01:44:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:44:18):
And you know what you asked me a few weeks ago,
you said to me to be a Hurricanes Blues won't who?

Speaker 17 (01:44:21):
You know?

Speaker 3 (01:44:21):
How do you think to go? And I said to
you at the time, I said, you know, I've been
a Blue support on my whole life, binding and I
just we've got closed so many times. But to actually
get this over the line, I'm not sure. And I
went home and I thought, friend, she's good. That's appalling.
You are you are you're a shocking fan because you
expect your team to go out there with the belief
that they can do it. You should have the same

(01:44:42):
belief that you expect of your team when they step
on that field, that they can get there and make
it happen. So I've pulled my socks up and I
believe they can do it. I think they need to
stay completely focused, they need to just they need to
play that. It wasn't pretty rugby on Friday night, finding
was it. But I think we can do it. I'm

(01:45:03):
behind the boys. I know we can do it.

Speaker 11 (01:45:05):
Last time I checked any any scoreboard for any game
of sport, there was no esthetic rating alongside as to
how it looks. It's just getting it done. And look,
the Blue's got it done pretty well against the Chiefs
at the back end around robin. They'll go on his favorites,
I think rightly so at home they don't lose it.
Eden bark very often. I think it'll be a cracking game.
The Chiefs, like I say, were good last night, and
they'll be better than they were in that round robin game.

(01:45:27):
So yeah, looking forward to a week of back and
forth between Vern Coyder and Clayton McMullan, the two coaches
and a cracking game next Saturday.

Speaker 3 (01:45:35):
Yeah, and look, actually thank you to the Hurricanes and
the Chiefs because last night it was a great game
to watch, really enjoyed it. The T twenty World Cup
really hasn't been worth watching for.

Speaker 11 (01:45:44):
The black can No, no, it hasn't, and it'll soon
come to an end. One more game. I'm not sure
there'll be too many black Caps fans getting up to
thirty Tuesday morning to watch the final Paul game against
pup on New Guinea. If you do, you're a better
cricket fan than I am. Chris Kittens is on the
show after midday today to talk about that, so I
have a chat to him about that.

Speaker 3 (01:46:00):
We'll obviously cover off the rugby and the Warriors still
can't beat the Storm sixteen games I know for well,
did I know?

Speaker 12 (01:46:10):
I know?

Speaker 10 (01:46:11):
Hey?

Speaker 3 (01:46:11):
Are you you watching the Euro twenty four? It's on
quite a good time for us, isn't it.

Speaker 9 (01:46:16):
Well?

Speaker 11 (01:46:17):
Yeah, absolutely, yeah, No, I love the Euros. I love
any football tournaments and yeah I was watched it till
you go down one l after twenty three seconds this
morning to Albania. They got back and won it. Looking
forward to England's first game tomorrow morning against Serbia around
breakfast time. So yeah, no, I'm all over the Euros
and we'll cover those off this afternoon. And Nick Wallace,
one of our great Olympians, also with us on weekend

(01:46:38):
Sport fantastic.

Speaker 3 (01:46:39):
Looking forward to a weekend Sport mid Day with Jason Pine.

Speaker 1 (01:46:43):
Sunday with Style, the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and
Windles for the best selection of great Reeds News Talk
zeb Travel with Wendy wu Tours unique fully inclusive tours.

Speaker 2 (01:46:56):
Around the world.

Speaker 3 (01:46:58):
Now Mick and Singleton often comes to us in our
travel segment from somewhere far away and things, but we
forget that sometimes there are some wonderful things that we
can be doing in our own backyard. And I know
that you've been to Wellington an awful lot, but this
is the first time that you have been to the
Urban Echo Sanctuary. Zeelander.

Speaker 7 (01:47:17):
Yes, have you been?

Speaker 17 (01:47:18):
No?

Speaker 16 (01:47:18):
I haven't, No years been the Zeelandier, Yeah, yeah, Zeelandier.
It's been there since two thousand. The predator fencing was
put around it in nineteen ninety nine. Eight point six
kilometers of predator fencing, so for the first year after
they built it, they had to just keep trapping and
removing all the pets that are not native to New

(01:47:41):
Zealand within that five hundred acre piece of native paradise,
which is just pretty much at the top of the
cable car, just you can walk or there is a
free shuttle about two k's through Calbourn and the next
minute you've arrived at Zeelandier And I'll tell you what,
It's just a lovely bushwalk on a lovely day anyway,

(01:48:03):
and there's lots and lots of trails for all levels fitness,
including pushchair wheelchair if you needed to. But it was
also some steeper stuff. But they've got a five hundred
year plan to restore really native New Zealand plants and
birds and reptiles, bugs and critters. And I absolutely loved it.

(01:48:26):
I can't believe it's been there for twenty four years
and I've never been and I can just highly highly
recommend it to people. Shoot up the cable car. I
think I paid eleven dollars for my round trip. There's
a lovely cafe at the top, so who's not to
love a carrot cake with a big swirl of cream
cheese icing and a cup of coffee overlooking the city

(01:48:48):
and then head down to Zeelandier take the kids. There
was school trip there while I was there as well.
Book a guided tour, so I was lucky. I arrived
five minutes before one of the guided tours, so that
was sixty dollars but well worth the two hour walk
with this really knowledgeable guide and honestly, you're walking around
and you're looking up in the trees and it's like

(01:49:09):
a treasure hunt because you're looking for some of New
Zealand's rarest and most endangered birds and it's great fun.
Really really loved it.

Speaker 17 (01:49:19):
Put lots of photos up on the blog.

Speaker 3 (01:49:20):
No, I'm just going through the post now. So did
you get to see a real range of what you
were looking for? Like sometimes you can go and you
don't see that bird, or you don't see this, you
don't see that. Ye, did you get a glimpse? We
did enough to satisfy you.

Speaker 9 (01:49:33):
Absolutely.

Speaker 16 (01:49:34):
I've got this little They give you a wee brochure
and inside it there must be twelve fifteen sixteen pictures
of what you should look for, and there's birds and
there's reptiles. And there's wetter and stuff, and we must
have ticked off probably ninety percent of them, which was
really cool. I mean, the to Atara wound out, but
I've got a picture of where their burrows are, which
you wouldn't know if you were to have a guide

(01:49:55):
to tour because it was sunny, but it wasn't a
warm enough for it to Atara to come somedathing. But
we saw the tarka hat, which was they thought it
was extinct until a decade ago. Lots and lots of
toy with the kakaiki. We just saw so many cool things.
And of course the toy and the kedar were absolutely
everywhere I got it.

Speaker 17 (01:50:15):
Looked up, looked up at this.

Speaker 16 (01:50:17):
Toy high up in the branches, and I saw this
pool coming towards me, and.

Speaker 9 (01:50:21):
I thought, what's the chance?

Speaker 16 (01:50:23):
One hundred percent chance, Francesca it hit me in the face.
Of course, here we go.

Speaker 3 (01:50:29):
Thank you so much. Meghan. Hey, look, Meghan takes you
through her day at all her morning at Zeelander, So
you can just head to blogger at large dot com
and have a little look at that if you're thinking
of doing a trip, Because of course school holidays are
coming up I think it'd be a great destination. It
is twelve to twelve.

Speaker 2 (01:50:45):
Books with Wiggles for the best selection of Greg Reeves.

Speaker 3 (01:50:50):
Joan mackenzie joins me now to talk books. Hello, good morning,
good to have you with us. The Spoiled Heart by
son Jeev Sahota tell me about this.

Speaker 22 (01:50:59):
He is, I think I'm correct in saying an English writer.
I read one of his books about three or four
years ago called China Room, which I dwed and you're
nodding you read it too, Yeah, very very good. It
was actually long listed for the Booker Prize, and I'm
rather hoping that we might get to see this one
on the Booker list as well. It's the story of
a guy called Nayan Olak who is a union organizer.

(01:51:20):
He's a union man through and through, and the time
has finally come for him to try and take the
top job at the Britain's biggest union and he's pretty
much guaranteed the position, so he's very optimistic going through
his campaign until a young woman stands against him and
things suddenly start to go a little bit pear shaped.

(01:51:40):
But the poor guy has never recovered from losing his
son and his mother in a house fire about twenty
years ago, and things have been really tough f him
over the years, which is why works come to be
so important to him. But he meets up with a
woman called Helen who arrives back in the town where
he lives after having been away for quite a long time,
about twenty years I think, and she brings her teenage

(01:52:05):
son with her, and he forms a relationship with her,
and he thinks that he's looking at the prospect of
some kind of happy future. And he bonds really well
with the teenage son, who in many ways reminds him,
of course, of the son that he lost. But what
he doesn't realize, and reading the book you do is
that he is a man on the edge of a
precipice and everything is about to go completely not the

(01:52:26):
way that he was opening.

Speaker 3 (01:52:27):
Okay, yeah, sounds intrigued.

Speaker 22 (01:52:29):
It's great.

Speaker 3 (01:52:30):
The Final Diagnosis is a new book from the forensic
pathologist Kenrick temple Camp.

Speaker 22 (01:52:37):
Yes, it certainly is. Our listeners may remember his earlier books.
This is the third and what I guess you could
call a trilogy. The first one was The Cause of Death, Yes,
the second one was The Quick and the Dead Terrific
titles and now the final diagnosis. I guess because it's
the final part. And this is fascinating stuff as a pathologist,
the work that you get to do, the exploration of
people's bodies, the putting together all of the clues. Reading this,

(01:53:01):
in some ways I sometimes felt a bit as if
I were watching House again, remember the su Lorrie TV show.
So he gets particular scenarios which need to be worked
through so that he can arrive at what will be
determined to be the cause of death, and in doing
so he just does the most Some of it's incredibly glory,

(01:53:22):
the work that they have to do on these bodies
that they get. But he's also interesting in a wider
sense because in this book he gives you his spin
on things like COVID, what happened when it was first
announced that COVID was coming and it was likely to
kill thousands and thousands of people, and the work that
they did at the Palmeston North Hospital to get ready
for that. Also the time, if you recall, when the

(01:53:43):
Anset plane crashed down in the Munna were two on
its way into Parmeston North Airport. They were told there
were twenty one passengers and crew on board, and they
had to get the mortuary ready for what they thought
might be twenty one bodies and the work that goes
into that. He has a particular take on things like
the Mark Lundy crime, which of course I don't think

(01:54:04):
that he was the pathologist for, although I'm not entirely
sure about that, but he certainly does not believe in
Mark Lundy's innocence, and he tells you why, and he
talks about the fact that eyewitness recollection and memories are
so often so inaccurate. So he touches on the ben
smart and delivera hope disappearance down in the Marle pros sounds,
and he has a particular perspective on that. He's a

(01:54:26):
really interesting guy. And like I say, parts of this
are quite gory, but it's not gratuitous. It's all there
to explain what it is that he does and how
he pulls all of these clues together to arrive at
a final conclusion.

Speaker 3 (01:54:37):
We've interviewed him. I think after the Quick and the Dead, yes,
and I agree, he just opens this door into this
world that really none of us have any idea of
the reality of. We can watch TV, you know, think
we understand what's going on, but we don't really, so
I very much appreciated that having a much clearer understanding.

Speaker 22 (01:54:56):
I agree, and what I can tell you I will
never eat a green lipped muscle again without wondering what's
coming with it, just saying.

Speaker 3 (01:55:04):
Right, okay, you'll have to read the book to get
to the that one. I love it. The Final Diagnosis
by Kendrick Temple Camp and the first book that we
spoke about was The Spoiled Heart by Son Jesus Ahota.
Thank you so much. John'll see next week's see you.

Speaker 2 (01:55:17):
Then keep it simple.

Speaker 1 (01:55:19):
It's Sunday, the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutka and Wiggles
for the best selection of great breas news talk.

Speaker 3 (01:55:26):
SEDB, thank you so much for joining us here on
the Sunday Session this morning. Thank you very much to
Kerry for producing the show and everybody else behind the scenes.
Next weekend, Captain Sandy Yawn from reality TV show Below
Deck Mediterranean is in the country and she's just gonna
tell us, well, is really like Below Deck. We're also
going to look ahead to the Paris Olympics and next

(01:55:47):
week mark sixty years since the Beatles toured New Zealand.
We are you going to take a look at that
as well? So I think it's fitting. We finished with
a bit of the Beatles I saw her standing there.
Have a great Sunday afternoon, look forward to seeing you
next weekend. Take care.

Speaker 2 (01:56:05):
And long.

Speaker 10 (01:56:16):
Swelling.

Speaker 1 (01:56:40):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.

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