Full Show Podcast: 7 July 2024

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca.

Speaker 1 (00:16):
Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great reads
used Talks EDB.

Speaker 3 (00:27):
Good morning and welcome to the Sunday Session. I'm Francesca
Rudkin with you until midday to day, taking over from
I think a very exhausted Pete wolf Camp. Not only
did he present to show this morning, but of course
he had dent the studio out in Orange to support
his football team Netherlands, who have won and set themselves
up with a semi final against England. I'll tell you

(00:49):
what he left the suit. He looked exhausted. It had
been a very big morning for Pete, so I think
he's off home to have a nap.

Speaker 2 (00:55):
Hey.

Speaker 3 (00:55):
Of course, it's so much sport going on this weekend.
A very tight tense game last night, wasn't it on
the rugby field. But Scott Robertson's era has begun with
a win. We're going to Elliott Smith's views on the
game very shortly. My feature guest this morning is Steve Bonnius.
He's one of New Zealand's most popular writers. He's won
over forty national writing awards and has written about everything

(01:17):
and anything in his time as a journalist and columnist
and author and editor. Over the past twenty years, he has
also become a respected true crime writer and he has
just released the final book in his crime trilogy. It's
called The Survivors True Stories of Death and Desperation. We
talk about how humans survive horrific things, and we talk
about the toll of the job and why he's decided
he's done with true crime. After eleven, I have a

(01:41):
truly fascinating guest for you, doctor Ratu Mataira. He is
a physicist and a founder of a company called Open starb.
It's a keepy company that has the ambitious goal to
recreate the holy Grail of energy, nuclear fusion, in order
to power the planet. Ratu has been talked up as
the most ambitious key WE founder since Peter Beck. We

(02:01):
find out more about him and the future of nuclear
fusion after eleven And of course, as usually, you're most
welcome to Touch base. Feel free to text anytime. This morning
on ninety two, ninety two.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
The Sunday Session.

Speaker 3 (02:15):
So what did you think of the new three News
bulletin at six pm last night. I worked in TV
for well over a decade, and the one thing I
know is that you never judge a live show on
its first outing, sometimes not even on its second. And
I felt a bit sick with nerves for the Stuff
team at about five point fifty eight last night, where
we're forewarned by Warner Brothers Discovery this week that the

(02:38):
bulletin is not yet everything they want it to be,
that it will take time to grow. By saying that
out loud, they managed expectations for themselves, the audience, and
the critics. But after watching the first bulletin bulletin, I
wonder whether the challenge will be more about maintaining the
standard that was set last night. Visually, three News looks

(03:00):
different to its predecessor, but not jarringly so. The graphics
are simple, the virtual reality bold and busy, and the
weekend host Laura Tupo's relaxed and competent performance made it
easy to adjust. It was a pretty seamless and smooth beginning. Technically,
things went well better than I'd expected. Clearly, they were
also keen to set the standard with their story quality

(03:23):
and that is what the news is all about. After all,
both one News and three News had gutsy exclusives up
their sleeves for launch night. Three News put out the
big talent with senior investigative journalist Paula Penfold presenting an
investigation into a Chinese probation officer's link to an alleged spy,
and weekday news reader Samantha Hayes made it clear she

(03:44):
isn't just going to sit behind an auto Q and
presented a story about a reformed gang member. Both were
substantial stories that felt like they were filling a gap
left by the demise of shows like Sunday and Paddigower
has issues. There weren't a lot of stories it is
only a half hour slot in the weekends, but they
also covered off the news of the day, sport was lively,

(04:05):
and the weather efficient. It was a good start. If
you were worried about not having another real news option
at six, than the indications are you can rest easy
the challenge. I think we'll be keeping it up, so
good on them. A new error begins. Stuff hadn't have
not had much time to pull us together, and considering

(04:25):
the challenges, it's impressive. They're off the starting line. Now
it depends on how well they impress loyal fans and
keep curious ones. Best of luck to them for Sunday session.
So I'm keen to hear your thoughts. If you're a
loyal news Hub fan where you're happy with what was
served up last night on TV three, will you keep watching?

(04:47):
Or like me, did you watch out of curiosity. I'm
like a lot of people. I don't get my news
from a six pm bulletin normally, but I might be
slightly more tempted to tune in to see how this
all pans out. And of course Mondays show is going
to be a whole new thing again. So keen to
hear your thoughts on what you on, how you I
think they went ninety two? Ninety two is a number

(05:09):
de text, It is twelve past nine. You're with News
Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (05:13):
Keep it simple.

Speaker 1 (05:14):
It's Sunday, the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles
for the less selection of great releas News Talks.

Speaker 3 (05:21):
EDB very indifferent views coming through about three News last night.
Allison kind of agrees with me, she said, I checked
out three News out of curiosity. I was impressed and
thought it was totally fit for purpose in a modern
media area. I'll be returning in for more trash techs
to say, no activist Paula Penfold with a non story

(05:42):
no thanks, So can you hear your thoughts? Or actually
does it just not matter? You just not get your
news at six pm anymore and you're absolutely relaxed about
what happens at that particular hour. On the TV ninety
two ninety two Right concerns the government's plan to flood
the housing market could lead to cheap, slum like development.
Housing Minister Chris Bishop this week announced changes aimed at

(06:04):
fixing the housing crisis. Those in improving intensification, scrapping minimum
floor areas for apartments, house growth targets, and requiring cities
to expand at the urban fringe. Doctor Elizabeth Aiken Rose
as a senior lecturer at the University of Auckland School
of Architecture and Planning, and she joins me, now, good morning, Elizabeth.

Speaker 4 (06:23):
Good morning, Francesca.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
Love you to have you with us. What are your
concerns around these planning changes.

Speaker 4 (06:30):
Well, none of them are new. No, this is the
current government's merely continuing what the previous government is doing,
which is largely loosening up land supply in order to
solve every other problem, and in its wake will be
many long term problems such as well as such as

(06:56):
such as building on floodplains and on unstable land and
in fact creating communities, or not creating communities but eating
creating sprawl, and creating houses of or places in which
people live of very low quality.

Speaker 3 (07:19):
Will it make housing more affordable?

Speaker 4 (07:22):
No? No, I mean it loosens up, It loosens up
the market in some respects, but it doesn't make We
know that, we know, we know for the last ten
to fifteen years that just land supply alone does not
make housing more affordable.

Speaker 3 (07:41):
The loss of farm land. Can we we can't just
keep building on it, can we?

Speaker 4 (07:47):
No? No, we can't, we can't. We really need to
be building for resilience. We need to be building on
our least productive and most stable soils, not on our
most productive. We need we're going to need to have
food supplies to close to cities.

Speaker 3 (08:06):
I think a lot of people probably feel that that
mix though of expansion and intensification, it sits well with
people because people are that you know, don't like one
or the other, and having a mix might sound like
a good idea. Would that would that be true? Do
you think, Elizabeth? How the politiciz?

Speaker 4 (08:24):
Yeah, well no, having having a mix is definitely what
plans set out to do. They set out to release
land over time. And this is carefully evidence based, not
just evidence based, but also based on community consultation. So
there's there's always provision for expansion and growth.

Speaker 5 (08:47):
Uh.

Speaker 4 (08:47):
And for you know, decades now, we've been trying to
encourage intensification, and the look and Unit Frey Plan makes
provision for both.

Speaker 3 (08:59):
The expansion and the growth. What kind of pressure does
that put on the council? How do we deal with
the infrastructure and everything else that goes along with just
building the houses in areas like this?

Speaker 4 (09:10):
Well, the infrastructure is the critical problem and its infrastructure
for water supply, for sanitation, for a storm water management,
for education, and for health. And we are basically not

(09:31):
keeping up with that. And I think we've got to
really address in Zealand local government funding models. And it's
not just building a new infrastructure, it's actually maintaining the infrastructure.

Speaker 3 (09:44):
That we have, absolutely, especially when we're intensifying. So how consumed.
Are you around the standard of building that could be built?

Speaker 4 (09:52):
Extremely concerned, extremely concerned. I think the RNA Enabling Act
last year was twenty twenty one, was actually a slum
enabling acts for the future. We're not We're not building
places or we have the potential to not build places
that have our high level of amenity in terms of

(10:14):
light and air, enough to land around for the basic
needs to store your rough supins and hang your washing out,
and and we're not. That's not being accompanied either by
the development of parks and recreation and so on. You know,
everybody talks talks about how wonderful Paris is and how

(10:37):
people live in very small apartments there, and they do,
but they also have access to some fabulous community spaces
and and also to you know, over decades or centuries
wonderful mixed mixed use development. So you kind of live
in the city as much as you live in your

(10:57):
home in Paris, whereas in New Zealand we tend to
live in our homes.

Speaker 3 (11:01):
And I don't sorry, carry.

Speaker 4 (11:05):
On, we've built very disconnected cities, so.

Speaker 3 (11:10):
We don't want to be shallow about it. But also
there's an esthetic involved in this as well. And we
kind of end up with these we can in that
with some pretty ugly buildings.

Speaker 4 (11:22):
We are ending up with very ugly buildings, very ugly
buildings indeed, and very ugly buildings that are not set
in particularly beautiful scriptscapes either.

Speaker 3 (11:36):
So was there a better way? Elizabeth?

Speaker 4 (11:41):
Yes, Yes, we need to plan for the future and
we need to plan for the present as well, and
we need to plan we need to have infrastructure that
can support the kind of development that we are doing.
And I think we have some very salutary lessons in

(12:01):
terms of the whole leaky building crisis in New Zealand,
which you know post incredible stress and costs on private
owners and then on public owners. No, deregulation is not
the solution.

Speaker 3 (12:18):
Thank you so much for your time this morning. Appreciate
your thoughts. That was doctor Elizabeth Aikenrowe, Senior lecturer at
the University of Auckland School of Architecture and Planning, Ken
to hear your thoughts about how you're feeling about these
changes that the government has announced around housing as well. Now,
last night we finally got to see Scott Robertson's All
Blacks in action.

Speaker 6 (12:38):
Daniel McKenzie tex Tex it at the touch and you
we're right of All back Rugby begins with an old
patteran test matter wrestle you seven sixteen even fifteen the
All Blacks?

Speaker 2 (12:52):
What it buy?

Speaker 3 (12:53):
What Elliot Smith called the game for z B last
night and he joins me now from Dunedin.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
Good morning, Good morning Francesca.

Speaker 3 (13:00):
First head out for Scott Robinson's All Blacks. What'd you
make of it?

Speaker 7 (13:04):
Look tense, tied, every thing that a test match is
really and I think there would have been some lessons
there for Scott Robertson and his coaching team around what
to expect from test match footy. They weren't really able
to implement a style or a game plan that they
would have liked, and that was credit to the way
that England defended, suffocated and swallowed up the All Blacks

(13:29):
attacking players when they were looking to go forward. They
couldn't get much meter reage throughout the course of the night.
So if we're looking for a Scott Robinson game plan,
it's probably going to take a few more tests to
a mood. But a winner is a winner is a win,
and the All Blacks on the board. But twenty twenty
four and a bit of a nail.

Speaker 3 (13:48):
By this did the starting lineup work?

Speaker 7 (13:51):
I think buye and larger it did. I think Steven
Peter Fetzer showed a lovely hands to our Bartie Tavia
for the all Black second try of the match. It
wouldn't surprise me necessarily see Boden Barrett switch back there
for Eden Park this week and Peter better use as
an impact player. But I think they've got a pretty
good forty five to fifty minutes out of Steven Peter
fected before that change was made, and they kind of

(14:13):
needed to make it at that point with England going
ahead by five points and just needed to change something
up in terms of their tactics. But I thought that
if it had a really good out, think Sema Penny
see now probably maybe a little bit quiet in the
starting pack, And that was one of the other perhaps
contentious or fifty to fifty selections that Scott Robertson made.

(14:34):
I think Damien McKenzie at ten was always going to
start at ten, but it's all late in the game
with the timed out penalty. Just a couple of things
that Damien needs to work on in his game heading
for but by and large. Look, I think the All
Blacks will be relatively happy with Dan. It could have
gone either way and the All Black seating out on top.
So that is, you know, a positive start to the campaign.

(14:57):
And you know there's thirteen more of these to get
ready for as the All Black's unfold, and I think
Scott Robertson and the scene will have learned the lessons
from what we saw last night and hope implement them
as they go through the next a few matches.

Speaker 3 (15:09):
Razor was standing throughout the game. He provided his own
form of entertainment for us all sitting at home watching him.
He didn't hold back on the emotion clearly, you know
he was feeling that he was feeling the stress.

Speaker 7 (15:22):
Yeah, he's right in the waves of the game. It's
good to see. And he said postmatch that he's sort
of feeling a bit disappointed at full time because they
didn't really play the game plan that they were hoping
to and that was credit to England and obviously some
of the All Black eras as well contributed to that
that at line out time or handling, whatever it might

(15:43):
have been, so they couldn't implement their own gap. He
was quickly reminded. He said after the match that was
his test match, drugby you know, you packed the win. However,
they come and you know, the All Blacks lost the
last match by a point of the World Cup Final.
They win this one by a point. And it only
matters when you're on the right side of the legend.

Speaker 3 (16:00):
Absolutely, Look, I don't I really enjoyed the first half.
I thought everyone's in this, all in this, everyone on
this field is playing with all they've got. What the
second half I started to get a little bored out.
Yet it felt like both teams were playing similar styles
and no one quite knew how to deal with the opposition.

Speaker 7 (16:18):
Yeah, I think that's probably symptomatic for the All Blacks
of evenly having ten days in camps that they probably
don't have those tools yet necessarily to pick apart defenses
that they might have otherwise had, and hopefully that will
grow over time. England I thought, suffocated the All Blacks
really really well on defense that didn't allow them line

(16:38):
to speed, which is where the All Blacks wanted allowed
in space. Maybe there was a couple of possible contents
off side where perhaps England on a couple of occasions
all Blacks on one could have been things that they
wasn't a regularly observed off sideline, I didn't think by
the referee, who otherwise though had a pretty good game.

(16:59):
So over time it's type that's a bit more implemented
as the game goes on. But it was just it
got into an armory, so it was very much between
the twenty twos and that second spell rather than inside it,
and we didn't get too many attacking chances. Yeah, the
All Blacks kept trialists in the second spell having to
rely on Daniel McKenzie's boots to get them home. They
would have spotted things for next week, hopefully that they

(17:21):
can find ways to unlock the England defense and get
some more tries on the board.

Speaker 3 (17:27):
Yes, and let's hope Marcus Smith doesn't find his boot
important is shoe to deal with the shirts, So a
lot of talk in the news room this morning about
what on earth were they thinking with the new shirt
shirts and the white collars that immediately got dirty, and
a lot of comments about the shirt All Black.

Speaker 7 (17:47):
Yeah, yeah, look at it's always a talking point. Look
I like the collar being back, I think it's a
little too long for my liking. Francesca no on my
free fashion expert, but I think that that sort of
long collar doesn't quite suit them. I do like the
white collar traditional you know, the builder ex jerseys are
the older era that saw and I like to call

(18:07):
her back, but it's probably just a little too long
for my liking, if I'm entirely honest with you. But yeah,
it's maybe they'll have a few tweaks.

Speaker 8 (18:16):
I don't know.

Speaker 7 (18:16):
I thought it looked all right in the park. But yeah,
as I said, no fashion expert, but look if the
if yourself when the news reom, we're raising this issue
and then clearly it's a wider issue of play here.

Speaker 3 (18:27):
Elliot, you're probably too busy last night. But Joe schmitts
Astralia got a twenty five sixteen win over Wells in
his first game as coach. He'll be happy with that, winning.

Speaker 7 (18:36):
Will be And look, I've watched the second half of
that one, got through the media conferences, et cetera. I
thought that was a very performance from the Wallabies. It
was sort of teetering for a point and then they
managed just to pull ahead of Welles. And it's about
a couple of outstanding second half tries for the Wallabies
just to put a bit of space pin themselves in
Wales and him when they lost to Welles and effictively

(18:57):
ended the World Cup last year. Forty points six new
coaching regime to come out on the other side and
win that, I think is a good start for Joshman
under Australia and the promising signs I think for them
from mess were set out.

Speaker 3 (19:10):
Thanks so much, as always, Elliott for your time this morning,
very much appreciate it. Yes, somebody just texted to say
the collars on the AB's shirts looked id yous, So
I mean, I know we shouldn't be focused on the shirts.
Doesn't matter, it's all about the rugby, but it was
a little distraction as we waited to see how that
game was going to end. Ninety two ninety two is
the text Politics up next? It is twenty nine past nine.

Speaker 1 (19:36):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks.

Speaker 2 (19:40):
At B.

Speaker 3 (19:42):
And time to talk politics and I'm joined by New
Zealand Herald Deputy Political editor Thomas Coughlin. Good morning, Good
morning Thomas. The Labor Party is on a mission to
win back the hearts and minds of Auckland's This week,
they've acknowledged that the super City residents probably didn't feel
that Labor was listening to them or engaging with them
ahead of last year's election. I might suggest that they

(20:03):
probably lost Auckland during the last lockdown of twenty twenty one.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
A Hello, sorry you just yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:11):
No, I think we'll get the lines. That's okay, can
you hear me now, Thomas? No, okay, we're going to
get Thomas on the phone. We were trying to be
sort of heavy with our technology there, but that's backfight
on us. I'm getting a lot of tics through regarding
all the things that we've been talking about today. A
lot of comments about the collars. The colors made the

(20:34):
smaller guys look like choir boys. Nothing wrong with a
choir boy, Somemer said, what are they wearing Quaker collars?
Quite a few comments along those lines. We'll come back
to some more of those tecks in a moment. I
think we've got Thomas now.

Speaker 9 (20:49):
Hi, Thomas, Hello, Sorry about line broke up now, good.

Speaker 3 (20:53):
To have you back. I was just saying that the
Labor parties on a mission to win back the hearts
and minds as workmand as they feel that they Labor
wasn't listening to them more engaging with them ahead of
last year's election, and I was saying, I tend to
think they probably lost them around the last lockdown and
twin twenty one.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
To be honest, yes, I.

Speaker 9 (21:08):
Think that's probably a question Labor, Labor and Peas are
asking themselves that I would. I mean, certainly some of
the polling that we've got would suggest that was around
the period they lost they lost Auckland. Obviously, with so
many New Zealander's living in Auckland and with m MP
meaning that every vote counts, it's pretty difficult to win
any New Zealand election if you don't if you don't
carry a decent chunk of Auckland with you. And obviously,

(21:30):
when you look at the way that the votes shook
out of the last election, Labor really really underperformed in
Auckland and it lost lost seats like Mount Roscall, which
it really really needs to hold. So you know, this
was the first kind of big staged event that Labor's
done to just tell Auklanders that it's listening. The parties
put out a bunch of social media ads as well,

(21:51):
basically saying altand you know, we had a listen, we
realized that we lost you last election. So it'll be
interesting to see whether that whether that works. I certainly
I think there'll be a lot of soul searching from
Labor that obviously the lockdown was a big issue. That's
you know, in the past. Now COVID's gone, but the crime,
the crime issue is still a big one for orphan
as I think, so it'll be interesting to see where

(22:13):
the Labor sort of changes its position on that a
wee bit. And I've certainly been trying to hug the
government on crime quite closely, So we'll see how it
shakes out.

Speaker 3 (22:21):
Thomas. The UK has a new Prime Minister and government
wall impec's a going to have on New Zealand and
our relationship with them.

Speaker 9 (22:29):
Yeah, it's an incredible result in the UK first change
of government in fourteen years. I can't imagine their position
towards New Zealand will be that different. These things tend
to be pretty bipartisan. We've actually enjoyed quite a close
relationship with the UK. Recently, after the UK came out
of the European Union, they were looking for some old
friends and new Zealand was an old friend that was

(22:50):
waiting to sort of step up. So we've had that
free trade agreement with the UK and Force for a
couple of years now. It's a really good free trade agreement.
It's one of our strongest ones. So New Zealand exporters
will be looking to continue to take advantage of that.
And then obviously the UK is taking a bit more
of an interesting our region. They've joined the cp TPP
and they they too are getting a weave a wee

(23:11):
bit nervous about the actions of China in our region,
so in a security sense are also they're also getting involved.
Christoph Laxon obviously on his way to NATO next week
in Washington, d c. And and the UK's new Prime Minister,
Kirstana will be at that NATO meeting, I believe, so
they'll actually have an opportunity to meet, you know, basically

(23:33):
a week after some became prime minister. So that's pretty
good going.

Speaker 3 (23:37):
And do we know of any other formal meetings that
the Prime minister will be having while he's in Washington.

Speaker 9 (23:42):
At the stage, I'm actually aware of aware of who
he has locked down, if any. They always have a
sort of big gala kind of dinner thing where he'll
get to meet any any leader who is there. They've
got the i P four meetings that South Korea, Japan,
in Australia which is happening, so that he'll meet the

(24:04):
leaders of those countries. Although I think Australian Prime Minister
Anthony Albaneasy isn't coming, so it's Deputy Prime Minister and
Defense Minister Richard Marles is going instead. And ideally Christopher
lax will rub ssholes with Joe Biden. I would say
it'd be a streech to actually get a formal violot
with Joe Biden because Biden will be pretty busy, but
they'll probably have what's called a pull side, and that

(24:27):
is that is that is just what it sounds sound like.
So they're at a bigger event and Christopher Lasnton makes
a bline for Joe Biden and they change a few
words on the sideline, but that's still pretty significantly. You know,
Joe Biden's the most powerful person in the world. So important.

Speaker 3 (24:43):
Thank you so much, Thomas. Good to catch up with you.
Right Footprint is an app that partners with local eateies,
allowing them to sell surplus food at a discount to
prevent it from going to waste. And they have just
launched a creative new plan for hospitality businesses when it
you know, it gets a bit slower in winter. They
have created mystery Bags. We're going to find out more
about that. Next News Talk zb It is twenty two

(25:05):
to ten Sunday.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
With Style the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Winkles.
For the best selection of great reads, please talk Sibyll.

Speaker 3 (25:15):
With the Sunday Session. Hospitality businesses are struggling, consumers are
feeling the pinch with the cost of living, and food
waste is a huge problem. Well, my next guest has
come up with a unique way to battle all three.
Enter the Mystery Bag. They are the new creation by
food Print founder Michael Garvey. Food Print is an app
that partners with local eateies to sell their leftover food

(25:37):
at a discounted prices. You probably are using them, and
mystery bags are their new offering to further help both
hospitality and consumers. And Michael is with me.

Speaker 10 (25:45):
Now, good morning, it's Marie Francisca. Thanks for having me.

Speaker 3 (25:49):
How did mystery bags come about?

Speaker 10 (25:50):
Yeah, so this is something we've been sort of testing
with our audience for a while. The idea of a
mystery bag something that's been going a little bit viral
over on the old TikTok recently, okay, and we wanted
to find a way of really simplifying our platform that's
already really easy to get, but making it even easier
for eateries, allowing consumers to kind of add a little

(26:11):
bit of fun and sustainability into their ability to eat
out during this cost of living and climate crisis.

Speaker 3 (26:18):
Okay, so what are they what's on offer?

Speaker 10 (26:20):
Yes, So, basically, as you said in the intro, food
Print partners with eateries and when they've got surplus food,
they need to find a way of selling it, and
food Print is a solution there. But things can sell,
things can change really quickly in a hospitality business, and
so the idea of a mystery bag allows the eateries
to put something up and it really is a mystery.
So no two bags are going to be the same.

(26:41):
You usually expect to find around two between two to
four items in there, you know, and one day it
might be a salad and a muffin, the next day
it might be a pie and a sausage roll, you know,
and so you get that real sort of unboxing experience
with your food items every.

Speaker 3 (26:56):
Days, like going back to school and opening the lunch
box and seeing what Mum's put in there for you exactly.
But I think it'd probably be more enjoyable. Is this
something that the businesses have been really happy to jump
on board with? Have they been asking you for something
like this? Yeah? Absolutely so.

Speaker 10 (27:13):
As I said, it really simplifies the platform for the
eateies and it just is a really fun way for
them to use it. And yeah, consumers are also loving
it in the testing that we've been doing.

Speaker 3 (27:25):
So you make your purchase online and then you pop
in and you pick up the food exactly. Do you
think that they'll take a look at the customer coming
and going, oh, I know them they're like this bag
or they're like, I mean, it'll be interesting. I've seen
some of the times they do.

Speaker 2 (27:37):
Yes.

Speaker 10 (27:37):
Yes, And sometimes the eatery might even give you a
bit of a choice, depending on what they've got and
how things are going on their day.

Speaker 11 (27:44):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (27:45):
What are you hearing from the hospitality industry in terms
of where business is at?

Speaker 10 (27:48):
Look, I don't think I need to tell you or
your listeners that business is tough right now. You know,
anecdotically some of the businesses are telling us that they're
down sort of twenty percent on what they would have
expected or on last year. And obviously consumers are also
feeling the pinch at the moment. And so for those businesses,
you using food print as a way for those back
up days when things don't go to plan. It's really

(28:11):
beneficial for them to be able to retain that value
in that food while also not allowing their food to
go to waste. You're not as devastating seeing food go
to waste. And it also has you know, it's got
those monetary implications for the business, but it also has
a huge implication on the climate crisis. And yeah, for
the businesses, it's also a great marketing opportunity. You know,

(28:32):
we also hear that food print brings in new customers
that they've never seen before. So again, in that kind
of in this tight time, this you know, tight economic
situation that we have at the moment, it's really great
for them to be able to get their name out
there to a few more people.

Speaker 3 (28:47):
Really positive thing fixing lots of problems food waste, the
declining hospitality sector and our shrinking wallets, you know, making
it affordable. I can't quite believe it was twenty nineteen
when you launched food Print and came in here to
talk to me about it. How time flies? Absolutely, it
was like feels like just the other day. How have

(29:07):
the last five years gone.

Speaker 10 (29:08):
Yeah, it's been the roller coaster as it has been
for everyone. But no, it has been fantastic and I
am so grateful that I get to do what I
do every day and help support other businesses across the country.
We have grown food Print to several different regions around
the country, so you can now use the app between
Auckland and Dunedin and we're continuing to grow into other

(29:29):
regions throughout the rest of the year as well. So
keeping an eye on our social media is the best
place to see where we're going next and letting us
know if you want to see food Print in your
region if we're not there.

Speaker 3 (29:40):
So if somebody hasn't heard of food Print before, just
explain it really quickly. You basically download the app, you
jump on board wherever you are in the country. It
will tell you the outlets exactly associated who might be
near you.

Speaker 2 (29:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (29:53):
Yeah, So you can even follow your favorite eateries so
you can do a little search. You can use the
map for you to kind of scroll out, scroll around town,
see what's around. Once you add those eateries to your favorites,
you'll actually receive a push notification when they've got food
of AI. And we know that our customers love that
because food flies off the app in seconds, and so
you do often have to be really quick to grab

(30:14):
that food. Everything on the app is discounted from at
least thirty percent off. There are times when eateries will
put food on for sort of eighteen ninety even sometimes
one hundred percent discount. That is making it free, and
that is because those businesses just don't want to see
that food ending up in the bin. You know, it's
their hard work, it's their money, it's their time.

Speaker 3 (30:32):
And then you fly by pick it up and just
pick it up, happen to get yourself a great meal
or a bit of a discount. Absolutely. Do you know
how much food you have kept out a landfall? Can
you calculate that? We can?

Speaker 10 (30:43):
Normally the figure a say share is that we've kept
about one hundred and seventy tons of emissions from entering
the atmosphere and warming the planet. So that's sort of
the main number that we focus on food based having
that impact on climate change. Yeah, means that that number
is the really important one for me.

Speaker 3 (31:00):
Oh good on you, Michael. Thank you for finding another
solution to help out the businesses. Thanks so much and
it's love to talk to you. That was Michael Garvey.
Food print. Do we just google food print?

Speaker 10 (31:11):
You can find us on our website which is foodprint
dot app or food print in z on social media.

Speaker 3 (31:17):
There we go. Bring it. It is a fourteen to
ten news talk ZEDB.

Speaker 1 (31:22):
Putting the tough questions to the newspeakers, the mic asking.

Speaker 12 (31:26):
Breakfast the government's new housing plan funger Amia Vince Cocarillas.
Whether if the developers seed are profit in it, they will
do the infrastructure.

Speaker 13 (31:32):
Is that fair or not?

Speaker 14 (31:33):
So what we've done in fays where the infrastructure needs
to be and put in place and then contributions. Now
there are some councilors who dorig that we do. So
when it developer says, okay, we're going to do develd
in this area, we put the price on each property,
so letting it going towards the infrastructure in the area
and to complete their projects. So then it actually so
the points to be upgraded, the roads to get upgraded,
and the.

Speaker 4 (31:53):
Side of things.

Speaker 12 (31:54):
You almost sound like you've got erect together and fung arrangements.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
Now.

Speaker 14 (31:57):
It's been working on at a long time.

Speaker 9 (31:59):
Mike a lot.

Speaker 12 (32:00):
Time back tomorrow at six am the Mic Hosking Breakfast
with Jenuine.

Speaker 2 (32:04):
Newstalk ZEDB Relax, it's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (32:08):
It's a Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great reads used talk z be.

Speaker 3 (32:16):
I'm going to share a little bit of feedback with you.
Thank you very much for all the texts which have
been coming through on the Telly Hi, Francisca love the
new TV three six pm US Concise with all ther
relevant news. Wish it would be a half hour program
all week. Yeah, And the one thing I didn't touch
on was because I felt like, you know, it was
worth giving them credit last night for getting on air

(32:38):
and doing a good job. Is how they are going
to sustain this and how they're going to pay for
it and things like that. That's a whole other sort
of story. And I do wonder whether you might be
onto something the desiree, whether you know it should be
half our all week. Laura has always been a favorite,
she writes, not a fan of the new all black scholars.
They look sissy apparently, So thank you very much for

(32:59):
your text. Good morning, Francisca. We've been loyal TV three
watches for thirty years. We were very impressed with last
night's first airing of the new new good luck to
them all. Another from mag who wrote, for thirty years,
I've been exclusively TV three news watcher, and i will
continue that tradition. The stories were professionally done, but yes,
did feel they were more suited to a Sunday type program.
I'll remain loyal, though, is not changing to the other

(33:22):
news channel. So it just sounds like, you know what
we knew would happen, and that is that life goes
on regarding the housing, freeing up housing, So planning and
better infrastructure of the solution. Isn't that what's happening? Unfortunately,
academics demonstrate how fairy tales clash with reality. Living in
an area where building is streaking off, seeing five year

(33:45):
old buildings with the sards already falling off, new builds
with no grass areas, highly concreted opinion, but very ugly
building one suburb over. I'm sorry I've lost the train
of thought on that. The things on here beautiful building, small,
green landscapes. Somebody saying, there's a differentference what they're seeing

(34:07):
being built feels the intent of quality is held by
developers overseas. Developers appear to have a lower bar for
the esthetics longevity. So the point we're trying to make
is east. Some people are saying, look, we obviously we
don't need to build, and we do need to intensify,
and we do need to use land further outside our
city areas. But actually we can put some kind of

(34:30):
regulation in place to make sure it's not in a floodplain,
that we can build the infrastructure that is a city,
we can afford to build there, that actually these buildings
aren't going to fall apart in five years. I don't
think there's anything wrong with trying to put that in place.
Thank you very much for your feedback. This morning, it
is eight to ten News Talks.

Speaker 2 (34:48):
B keep it simple. It's Sunday.

Speaker 1 (34:51):
The Sunday Session with Francesca Rutgater and Wiggles for the
best selection of the Graps News Talk ZB.

Speaker 3 (34:59):
So my lovely producer Carry is very pleased that you
all agree with her that the All Black Shirts were
a little bit off. The consensus on the text machine
is one hundred percent for the fact that they weren't
quite They weren't quite what we normally expect. And you
wouldn't believe the number of texts I've received that have

(35:20):
called the All Black Shirts the glory of veil tops,
numerous texts making that connection there. Look, I think they
were going for a bit of a retro look, you know,
HARKing back to the old three c's rugby jerseys with
the white collar and things. But it was the fact

(35:41):
that it was getting dirty that I've set my producer
so much. Anyway, thank you for your feedback on that.
Up next, award winning author and journalist Steve Bronius joins
me to talk about writing true crime and what he's
learned about human nature after sitting in courtrooms for the
last twenty years. We're going to talk about his latest
book With the Survivors and find out just how well

(36:01):
he has survived this part of his career and what
does this song have to do with science one. Michelle
Dickinson will let you know next down. This is a
Sunday session. You're with news Talks.

Speaker 5 (36:12):
He'd be No, we can't read the.

Speaker 15 (36:21):
Bumbas bumbas.

Speaker 16 (36:28):
I want no role with him, my heart that we
will be a little given and it's.

Speaker 11 (36:34):
Fun when you're with me.

Speaker 5 (36:36):
RESTA home is not the same without a gun and baby.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
When it is love it it's not robb It isn't fine.

Speaker 16 (36:48):
I'll get him show him Wateryyes, I'll get him, show
him water.

Speaker 11 (36:59):
The eyes kill me.

Speaker 5 (37:01):
Can't read No, we can't read the mother.

Speaker 3 (37:07):
About it.

Speaker 5 (37:08):
Jilly carry By, No, we can't read them my bot.

Speaker 15 (37:13):
Face booker pap buck her bace ba ba ba booker
face buck her babe.

Speaker 3 (37:32):
I won't tell you that.

Speaker 2 (37:33):
I'll look you just to hug you because I'm bluffing
with my muffin.

Speaker 13 (37:37):
I'm not lying.

Speaker 2 (37:38):
I'm just done you with my love gluten it it's
just like a chicken cussine. No, take your bag before
I'll pay you.

Speaker 13 (37:45):
Well, I promise this promise.

Speaker 5 (37:47):
Put his hand because I'm mom.

Speaker 3 (37:49):
Jerry mon cherry Man.

Speaker 5 (37:50):
No, we can't read them, my older face, Jilly carried Ma, No, we.

Speaker 7 (37:59):
Can't read them, U.

Speaker 17 (38:05):
Jilly can read.

Speaker 5 (38:07):
No, we can't read him Bo. The Pace Shoes.

Speaker 11 (38:13):
Kill Kelly Man.

Speaker 5 (38:15):
No, we can't read him The Pace Shoes Nobody, Kelly
man ken Man, No.

Speaker 2 (38:23):
We can't read them.

Speaker 17 (38:25):
The face shoot.

Speaker 5 (38:29):
Kill me man Cantain, No, we can't read him Bo.

Speaker 15 (38:33):
The Pace Shoes Nobody by by Booker b By by
Bucker Bae bum By My Booker Bagu My Bucker Pape
Nobody bun By by Booker Babe By by Bucker Baine
bun By My Bucker bag By by Bucker pas b

(38:54):
b Booker b By by Bucker bak Bu Boker.

Speaker 2 (38:58):
B Buy my fucker Baine. It's Sunday. You know what
that means.

Speaker 1 (39:04):
It's the Sunday Station with Francesca Rudkin and wiggles for
the best selection of great reeds.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
He's talk seppy, Good.

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Morning, this is a Sunday session. I'm Francesca Rudkin with
you until midday. Good to have you with us now.
Steve Braunius has created a career out of people's worst nightmare.
Is a court reporter for twenty years. An award winning
true crime author, he surrounded himsel himself in stories of
death the worst of which humanity has to offer. And

(39:41):
now he's done. He's hanging up his pencil on his notepad,
and he's leaving the world of true crime. But before
he goes, he's given us one last parting work, the
third and final book in his trilogy, The Survivors True
Stories of Just Stories of death and Desperation. Steve Braunius
is in the studio with me now, I'm delighted to

(40:02):
see you. Good morning, Good morning. This is the third
book in the true crime series. How was this different
to the previous two.

Speaker 18 (40:11):
Well, the first two were written with a great sense
of adventure and optimism and hope, and this one was
written more so in despair.

Speaker 19 (40:22):
And I had a.

Speaker 18 (40:24):
Kind of a crisis last year, I guess when I
was attending too many murder trials at the High Court
of Auckland. And I'd always been impatient with people who
would say to me, oh, how do you cope with this?

(40:45):
And I will say, I cope very well, thank you.
I feel totally at ease and calm in a court
room because it's not my problem. The problem in the
trauma the people being accused, in the family of the victims,
and they take it home with them and they live it,
and I never did until last year and I kind

(41:09):
of switched. I guess I had a kind of a crisis,
and I started to realize that I started hating certain
people who were accused and plainly guilty of really heinous crimes.
And you don't really want to go to work to
hate people, do you. No, it's really don't.

Speaker 3 (41:30):
Was it a particular case. Was there a moment when
this kind of crisis began? Can you pinpoint that.

Speaker 18 (41:36):
It was more accumulative?

Speaker 2 (41:38):
Yeah.

Speaker 18 (41:40):
I attended three trials in a row, which is unusual
for me. I sort of dive in and then I
made don't come back for weeks and I'll do something else.
And then at the end of that process, you think
very seriously about how to create all this writing that
you've done into a book, and you think more, You

(42:03):
think more deeply. Are suppose about crimes and the pasts
and the themes and what you can say about them?
So and it was doing that that I thought I
can't take the company of these people anymore in a book.
I will continue to occasionally dip into the High Court
and write about trials for the Herald, and that's been

(42:27):
great since I finished writing that book. That's been great
because it's with the knowledge that it doesn't have another
life of thinking hard about serious crimes and the impact
that they have on people, because you know, going to
court and interviewing people afterwards, it's a hell of a thing.

Speaker 4 (42:49):
You know.

Speaker 18 (42:49):
This is people's worst experiences, patiently detailed, day after day
in the worst room in New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (42:58):
I was going to ask you what it is like
sitting in a courtroom, watching observing a trial play out
from beginning to end. I think most of us have
a view on what it would be like, which is
gleaned from ten seconds off the news or a photo
in the newspaper. But to sit there from the beginning
to the end.

Speaker 18 (43:19):
Yes, it's I mean, it's awful.

Speaker 2 (43:22):
You know.

Speaker 18 (43:23):
If I ever did something real wrong and I had
the choice of pleading guilty or pleading not guilty, I
think my instinct would be to go guilty.

Speaker 3 (43:33):
Get me out of here, give me the sentence.

Speaker 18 (43:35):
Now, let's get this done and save everyone else the pain.
You see families go through this, of the victim and
of the accused. It's really really awful for them, you know.
But yeah, so this book deals in a number of
those trials. There's two. There's two particular trials which have

(43:57):
one thing in common. And I deliberately avoided this thing
and my writings as a court reporter, and that is
the murder of babies or small children. And I deliberately
gone nowhere near And then suddenly I was doing I

(44:17):
was reporting and attending two of those trials within about
six weeks. And yeah, and I've tried to write about
that in a way which takes people to the courtroom
to the extent that they feel and participate in the
tragedies which are being which are being explained to you

(44:41):
and defended too.

Speaker 3 (44:43):
I think that's something you've always given us. You challenge
us to think differently, maybe more broadly, and with a
wider perspective of the stories that we're hearing, because it
is very easy to quickly react, to have emotional reaction
to what you might be hearing. Somebody did.

Speaker 18 (45:01):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I'm lucky. Really are the court
reporter who do go and do terrific work for the
radio stations of the papers. They have to do it
real fast, they have to do it that day. I'm
not too far behind, but I do have a lot
more time to write about the detail and write about

(45:21):
the people and that court, just to sort of bring
it alive, really and to make it more kind of
realistic in a way. Because you are dealing with people
all day long in a court room, you know, you've
got the I mean, judges are such a mysterious breed,
aren't they. They waft them through these side doors all
of a sudden, wearing bizarre clothes. They are untouchable. You

(45:47):
cannot challenge them. And they're such strange people. And I
have seen the same judge and I write about them
in this book, be so severe that he stunned the
court room into silence. And in another case, and this

(46:08):
was even more rare, he displayed an act of mercy
so stunning that it silenced the courtroom. So the power
that they have and the test of character that it
has is quite extraordinary. And look, I have to say,

(46:30):
I don't know if this will disappoint some people, but
I've become quite a fan of the judiciary and the
police and first responders. You know, you see the Saint
John's people and they come in and they talk about
in detail repulsive things that they have attended to and

(46:52):
active with great courage and efficiency. Then you have the police.
I write about one person on their detective called Detective
Libby Willis. She worked on a case almost impossible to solve,
and she was given the time, and she had her

(47:12):
own ingenuity, and it's truly impressive. It's world class stuff.
And then of course you got where the real action
often takes place in murder trials in the lab. The
lab did it, didn't it? The scientists are?

Speaker 2 (47:30):
You know?

Speaker 18 (47:31):
You look at the experiment conducted by a man in
Texas who was an advocate of the death penalty, and
he conducted an experiment which claimed to show that the
stain on Mark Lundy's shirt was tissue human tissue, and

(47:52):
that allowed the prosecutor in that case, a man from Hamilton,
to famously say to the jury, a man should not
have his wife's brain, A man should not have his
wife's brain on his shoe. So that case, which I
think is still controversial, and we have not heard the

(48:13):
last of that case, belongs in the lab. There's a
case coming up quite so much. I'm not really ought
not to talk about too much or at all, but
a lot of that is going to be extremely forensic.

Speaker 3 (48:28):
So it sounds like, even though you're not going to
write about cases anymore, it does sound like you will
probably still take an interest.

Speaker 18 (48:35):
I'll sneak into the odd one.

Speaker 3 (48:37):
Sneak in together. What have you learned from human nature
after sitting in courtrooms and observing so many different trials.

Speaker 18 (48:44):
That's a great question, It honestly is I've just learned.
I suppose one thing I've learned is how decent a
lot of people are. You kind of learned that. You
kind of learned that anyway as a journalist, because the
definition of a journalist is someone who goes up to

(49:06):
complete strangers and ask them personal questions and you find
I have found that so many people are just so
damn nice, They're so damn decent, and they're willing to
talk to you and willing to share and to listen
to you, and you know, and to respond, and that's
a real decency. And yes, you definitely see that in court.

(49:33):
The lawyers, you know, are the prosecutors. The prosecutors are
easy to like because they seem to be imposing, you know,
authority on chaos essentially, and defense lawyers were not supposed
to like because they're defending the indefensible. But in fact,
a lot of people, as we know, being accused of

(49:55):
these things may well be innocent or the evidence against
them is insufficient, and you have to come up to
that high stand. So, yeah, human nature. I've learnt a
lot about decency fortitude. There's one extraordinary trial that I
write about in that book where often the court each

(50:22):
courtroom is divided into two and it's essentially so that
on one side you can have the family of the victim,
on the other side of the family of the accused.
Very often they hate each other, and that's understandable, and
that gets you down to seeing that even though it's understandable,

(50:43):
it's so it's so bitter that it's awful. But there's
one case in there, at the whole end of the trial,
when it even went to sentencing, the two families. I
walked outside the courtroom and the two families were in
the big sort of waiting room outside, and they were

(51:04):
standing in a circle, and they were holding hands and
they were kind of did a prayer and asked and
gave forgiveness of each other. Never seen anything like it,
never seen anything like it. Beautiful, So you learn a

(51:25):
lot about human nature, there to the ability to forgive,
the ability to be, to do decent and beautiful things.

Speaker 3 (51:36):
The book isn't just about trials, though, you also profile
as opposed in a way, or bring some dignity to
some ghosts, to some other very interesting people living on
sort of the outer edges of society as well.

Speaker 2 (51:51):
Is it.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
How important is it to tell their stories as well?
How important is it to tell their stories?

Speaker 18 (51:59):
Oh, I don't know, I don't know. I don't know. Frankly,
I'm just unfascinated by them. I'm fascinated by them. And yeah,
these are people who you could say live on the
fringes of society, and they sort of form in many ways.

(52:21):
The theme of the book, and the theme of the
book is how to survive your own life, where you
not only make decisions which make life difficult for yourself,
you have a whole concept of life which makes it
difficult for yourself and sometimes for others. And some people

(52:41):
choose that, they choose this difficulty, they choose the hard road,
they choose a complicated lifestyle, and sometimes it's awe inspiring
to see. And yeah, I do write about people like
that in particular, I guess there's two chapters on one guy,
a very strange Man German, a German intellectual, a German

(53:08):
intellectual author who had been quite a superstar back in
Germany in the sixties and seventies, and then started four
ideas which were not psychotic, that he was being haunted
by vampires in his sleep. Vampires were kind of a metaphor.

(53:29):
They were for people who were draining his energy. And
he changed his name, and he came to New Zealand,
and he lived as a pauper, very very poor person,
and he he lived in one sort of boarding house
or youth hostel or backpack a hostel after another whose

(53:51):
oars on the move. And that was to avoid his
energy being drained by the dark forces, which sounds mad
and is mad. And yet he had a whole theorem
about this, as indeed he had whole theorems about all
sorts of other subjects, and he wrote about them incessantly,

(54:11):
perched on the top of a little step ladder which
led into a lock up. He had a series of lockups.
He would sit on a step ladder, unlockers his little
door there, and inside these lockups were papers, his personal papers,

(54:32):
and they were like his library and he'd sit there
for hours on end with his pencil stubs, making notes
and very very happy. And you know, what a fascinating life,
what a strange thing to do, and yet he's spread
a lot of joy around people, so he did. It's
a funny thing. Even though this book is about I
think the subtitles stories of death.

Speaker 3 (54:53):
Stories of death and desperation.

Speaker 18 (54:55):
I think it's a really hopeful book and it's just
about survivors who do survive.

Speaker 3 (54:59):
Yes, absolutely, Steve brni Is, thank you so much for coming.
And there's a collection of amazing stories in the book.
And we actually have three copies to give away. And
all you have to do is text your full name
address and Steve's surname Braunius. You have to spell it
correctly to ninety two ninety two, and don't forget that.

(55:19):
We're going to get our head round nuclear Fusion with
the founder of Open Star, doctor Ratu Martyra. After eleven
am this morning, you're with New sogs Ab.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and Wiggles.

Speaker 2 (55:36):
For the best selection of great breaths, use talks at b.

Speaker 3 (55:42):
The Wickles Kids Top Fifty as an institution, thousands of
young readers have found their next great book to read
by visiting the Kids the Kid's Top Fifty section in
Wickles stores or online. These books which were voted for
by their peers, so when they vote for a particular
title in force, you can pretty much guarantee that it's

(56:03):
going to be good. Now it's time to vote for
the twenty twenty four Kids Top fifty and Wickles would
love to hear from the book enthusiasts in your house.
Vote now at wit Calls in store or online and
there are ten one hundred dollars w Calls gift cards
to be drawn by ten lucky winners, plus these school holidays.

(56:23):
Wikkels also have thirty percent of Mattel and Hasbro games,
twenty percent of toys and twenty percent of all kids
books with books, games, puzzles, toys, gorgeous stationary, fabulous gifts,
gifts and the Kids Top Fifty to vote for. There
really is something for everyone. At wit Calls Sunday with.

Speaker 1 (56:40):
Style the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great Reeds, please talk sivy.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Nice me like this.

Speaker 3 (56:56):
You can see entertainment time now and Steve Neil, editor
at flix Stock, heard out and Z joins me, morning.
I am so excited that you were going to talk
about Quiet Placed because I haven't seen it. I'd heard
very little about it. It's kind of just snuck onto
the screens. And I loved those the original two films.

Speaker 20 (57:16):
Yes, for anyone living under a rock or a remote
farmhouse without electricity, These are films set after an alien
invasion of the Earth. The aliens hunt using sound, and
people have survived by being very very quiet. Sounds like
a boring film, but two really suspenseful thrillers so far.

Speaker 11 (57:38):
I was a little bit.

Speaker 20 (57:41):
Pessimistic about this picture because it's a prequel to those films.
We got to that day one, okay, and thank goodness,
it's actually not reverse engineering and explaining everything that led
to the films that we already know. It's not a
big oh, here's what really happened. It's just set in
Manhattan on the day all these meteor like projectiles hit

(58:06):
Earth and the hunt for humans and other noisy life begins.
It doesn't tell from this planet and they're up to this.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
It's just it's just still got that mysterious element to us.

Speaker 20 (58:19):
Yeah, and sort of fused with the healthy dose of
sort of nine to eleven New York dust clouds and
chaos and panic makes it feel really grounded and in
the hands of director Michael Saranosky. He's made one film before,
which was the excellent Nicholas Cage starring Pig from a

(58:41):
couple of years ago film Yeah, which is a striking drama,
and there's real echoes of that in this film because
being set in Manhattan, the Survivors. The start of this film,
thea Peter Niongo is stuck in New York. She really
just wants a slice of pizza. But the world's falling

(59:01):
apart around her. Yeah, I know, but her situations but
everyone else, because she is in the very last stages
of a terminal illness, and so her reaction to everyone's
fight for survival is a bit different. Her priorities are
a bit different. Why would you put yourself through hell
to only have a few more days.

Speaker 3 (59:19):
Left if you haven't put yourself through quite place yet?
Could you actually watch this one without of seeing those Yeah?

Speaker 20 (59:26):
I think you could, because the kind of I guess
like the rules of this film universe are very very simple,
don't make any noise. What I've liked about seeing these
films and cinemas sort of knowing what the premise is.
There's a bit longer of a hold for black at
the start of these films than you'd normally get, and
you're very aware of all your chippy packet, rustling seats, squirming,

(59:50):
tickle in the throat, coughing fellow movie goers and yourself.
I had a bag of a bag of lollies, and
I took a very patient approach yet to that open.

Speaker 3 (01:00:03):
Yeah, okay, don't you have a little SnapLock bagg I'm
in them when you're in the theater.

Speaker 20 (01:00:07):
They want to make sure take a lot of curries
to media screenings. It doesn't happen anymore. The reason there
hasn't been a lot of noise about this no pun intended,
is that there wasn't a media screening for this film. Typically,
that's what happens when studios bury a film and decide
that it's better off of the public. Actually don't hear
about it before it opens. Really boring reason the release

(01:00:28):
of this was tied to Tribeca Film Festival and they
didn't want to have any screenings before at premiered. A
big mistake because people like me don't get to say,
you know what, it's not going to sit the world
on fire. But it's a pretty decent movie we're seeing.

Speaker 3 (01:00:41):
I'd be talking about it too. Brad pet has returned
to the British Grand Prix to continue filming his Formula
one movie.

Speaker 20 (01:00:47):
What a call title? This film has f one straight
out no mucking about. He's at Silverstone this weekend. They've
been filming is it a doco or it's a drama?
And for the past year he's been going around Grand
Prixs and making this film that's like a big budget film.
See in the real world of Formula One. He's driving

(01:01:09):
for a fictional team in this film. Probably a little
bit all day to be a Formula one driver. What's
the reaction time required? But more than hey, look anyway.
Lewis Hamilton's a co producer on this film. It's being
made with all the participation of the Formula one teams
and associations.

Speaker 3 (01:01:30):
Sounds like someone went out one night, came up, had
a few drinks with someone in form one came up
with his great idea, and do you know what, I
just love to follow Formula one for a year. Let's
make a film.

Speaker 20 (01:01:38):
I just love the smell of petrol, so I just
want to be around petrol as much as I can.
This has a really good director attached, Joseph Kazinski, who
directed Top Gun. Maverick so knows his way around this
kind of high performance machinery.

Speaker 18 (01:01:56):
I reckon it'll be fun.

Speaker 3 (01:01:57):
I think so too.

Speaker 20 (01:01:58):
We won't see this until July or so of next year.

Speaker 3 (01:02:03):
Always good.

Speaker 20 (01:02:03):
But I believe there might be a sneak peek of this,
like a kind of teaser playing as part of the
British Grand Prix coverage this weekend.

Speaker 3 (01:02:10):
This weekend, I shall keep an eye out for it.
Thank you so much, Steve. Thank you for all the updates.
We'll catch up next week.

Speaker 2 (01:02:16):
Up next.

Speaker 3 (01:02:16):
How has music changed over the last seventy years? The
Scientific version of Offense Events with doctor Michelle Dickinson. You're
with the Sunday Session. It is twenty six to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:02:31):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin on news Talks.

Speaker 3 (01:02:35):
At B and then our girl, Doctor Michelle Dickinson is
here with our science study of the week, and we're
going to sit here and talk about the old times,
like old ladies. Aren't we so good?

Speaker 21 (01:02:45):
Because I don't know if you said this before, but
I just go, oh, man, they don't make music like
they used to. Whenever you know, you say to somebody, Hey,
what's your absolute favorite song? Yeah, I never hear somebody
name somebody today week here it's like, I mean, for me,
it would be Frank Sinatra, that sort of era.

Speaker 3 (01:03:03):
What about you? Oh, I can I can pick favorites
from every era that I can remember, music from my
whole life. I can remember the first album I got
was the Teddy Bears Picnic. The second one was Fame. Like,
you know, music's just the soundtrack to my life.

Speaker 21 (01:03:18):
Really, But would you pick something that was released this month?

Speaker 2 (01:03:21):
No?

Speaker 3 (01:03:21):
Probably not no, because we're old. I do this all
the time, making compilations on Spotify from e every decade
and every genre.

Speaker 21 (01:03:29):
And so the question is, and this is in the
Journal Scientific Reports, and its open source so you can
go and read it if you like, The question is
do they make music.

Speaker 3 (01:03:38):
Like they used to?

Speaker 21 (01:03:38):
Oh, we're all nostalgic for something that you know, isn't true.
Where is music better gold and oldies music? Is it
better than it is today? So they took three hundred
and sixty singles that had reached the US Billboard Top
five between the years nineteen fifty and twenty twenty two,
and they decided they weren't going to study the whole song.
And they said, well, we could, you know, study the

(01:03:59):
bassline or the drum pattern, but they decided to study
the melody for each and they said, the melody is
what resonates with people. When I said to you sing
your favorite song, you would probably sing the melody is
the bit that you remember the most. Is said, okay,
we're going to mathematically analyze all of the melodies from
these stringe and sixty songs, and we're going to see
if the olden songs are actually better than your ones.

(01:04:20):
And what they found is, I guess intuitive, but it
sort of makes sense. As we have come closer in
time to now, the complexity of song melodies has decreased.
Songs are getting simpler, and we sort of knew that,
and they took some great examples. So they started in
nineteen fifty two with a song by Joe Stafford that

(01:04:41):
you might know, called You Belong with Me. It's a
beautiful song and her voice in it is incredible. And
what's interesting in that song is there is a background beat,
but she ignores it totally. She just sings over the beat.
Sometimes she's in tune, sometimes it doesn't matter because her
melody is so amazing and the words are so moving
that you don't care that there's a beat behind her.

(01:05:03):
Then we move to nineteen seventy five You May Know,
and Tamil did a song called Love Will Keep Us Together,
great song you probably won't know how to sing along.
And again this was now on beat and a really
easy melody that you.

Speaker 3 (01:05:16):
Can all sing along with.

Speaker 21 (01:05:17):
And then they took us to two thousand and nine
Lady Gaga's Poke Face, which, if you know, it's basically
the same knowledge yeah, continuously.

Speaker 3 (01:05:28):
And that's it.

Speaker 21 (01:05:29):
It's just the same note with the words. And then
it's a very simple melody. And so mathematically they've gone,
this is what's happened to music. We used to have
beautiful oldies with lots of different like pictures, and now
it's sort of really simple, and they've gone, well why
is that? And they've gone through these melodic revolutions they've
identified mathematically. One was in nineteen seventy five, which is

(01:05:50):
when the Beetle sort of came around and sort of
that rock sort of pop music started coming in. The
next one was nineteen ninety six, which is where it
sort of hip hop and the Spice Girls started changing
the era, and that sort of continued through to the
two thousand. So we've definitely these revolutions the authors actually
go and it's thanks to technology. So what happened in

(01:06:11):
the nineteen fifties is music producers only had physical instruments
to mix, so everything was simple and the thing you
can make more complicated was the melody. But then as
soon as we've got digitization, you could start to create
pretty much any sound you've ever wanted to create in
your life. So they made the background more complex, melodies
got simpler.

Speaker 3 (01:06:31):
So you are right. The oldies are the best. The
oldies are the best, and the great thing is we
can still listen to them. It's still there.

Speaker 21 (01:06:37):
But music is the same complexity, it's just the melodies
are now simpler.

Speaker 3 (01:06:41):
Fascinating. Thank you so much, Michelle. Right, it was a
good morning for Netherlands. They bit Turkey and have made
it through to the semi finals of your own twenty
twenty four. So to celebrate, we've got some Dutch sausage
rolls up next. Let's sound pretty good too. Twenty to eleven.

Speaker 2 (01:06:57):
There's no bit of way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:07:00):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great breaths talk.

Speaker 3 (01:07:07):
And our resident chef, Mike vander Elsen joins me. Now,
good morning, and what lovely morning it is? It certainly is.
Isn't it good news this morning in the football?

Speaker 4 (01:07:17):
Ah?

Speaker 8 (01:07:17):
Yes, somebody I didn't see it, but somebody told me
the Dutch one.

Speaker 3 (01:07:22):
Yes I did.

Speaker 2 (01:07:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:07:24):
This is exciting, isn't it.

Speaker 8 (01:07:26):
What we're talking about?

Speaker 2 (01:07:27):
It is?

Speaker 3 (01:07:28):
Well, I was trying tell me about though, the Dutch
sausage roll and I apologize. I'm not even going to
attempt to pronounce this.

Speaker 8 (01:07:40):
Yeah. So there's there's two types. One was called a
waston brocher and the other one is called us sauce
Saxon broncher. So that the waster broncher is something that
we would get served as a as a band Elson tradition,
and we've carried that on with our family, And so
when we were young, we would go to midnight Mass.

(01:08:00):
We'll come home from Mass and we would get what
would call waster broochers, which are real flavor some kind
of mince sausage rolls, but instead of the flaky pastry
around the outside, it had a super soft like a
bread wrap around it, and Mum would bake them in
the oven when we got home from one night there,

(01:08:21):
so we'll eat them. And that was the only time
of the year that would eat waster brooches.

Speaker 2 (01:08:26):
Isn't it.

Speaker 3 (01:08:26):
I love traditions, I know, I know, I can't wait
for Christmas.

Speaker 8 (01:08:31):
So then I did a little bit of research into it.
And there's actually a different style of sausage roll in
Holland called a sulsation brocher, which basically means sausage in
a brooch or in a local bag, and it's using
flaky pastry, so it's more like our traditional Kiwi sausage roll,
but it's still got the same spiced mince in it.

(01:08:54):
And they would serve them, or they do serve them
warmed in train stations, often for lunch, and often with
a little salad or a little warm cup of soup.

Speaker 3 (01:09:04):
Lovely sounds purple, once again making me quite angry. Take
us through your Dutch inspired beef fronds.

Speaker 8 (01:09:12):
So these make quite a few, but don't panic if
you've got heaps of them. Just cut them up, put
them into the freeze and they freeze really well, and
then you just pull them out whenever you want. So,
first up, preheat other than one hundred and eighty degrees
if you're going to make them straight away. And then
you want to put five hundred grams of beef mints.
Obviously you can cut this down if you want, but
five hundred grams and beef mince into a bowl. Into

(01:09:33):
that you go tablespoon or salt, half a tea spoon. Wow,
I'd go, teaspoon of dried time, a teaspoon of ground
ginger powder, and a teaspoon of nutmeg powder. So it's
the combination of the nutmeg powder and the ginger powder
that make these so unique. So they are spiced, but
they're not spiced and chili, so the spiced in flavor.

(01:09:56):
And then also into there I go a cup of
bree crumbs. And what the bree crumbs do is basically
just hold all that liquid of the beef as it
cooks in and stops them from running out and making
your or sausage rolls go all sogging. So mix that
together and then you just want to divide them up.
That max will probably make five decent sort of rolls.
Take some square cut puff pastry, lay that out. I

(01:10:19):
would cut the pastry long ways in half, and then
you take your length of sausage. You know how the
gig works. Take your length of sausage roll, put that
into the front, roll it over to seal it. You
can eat to seal it with an egg, a beaten
egg and a brush, or you can actually just use water.
You can just run a bit of water over the
top of that, fold it over to it makes a
complete roll. Run a little bit of water over the

(01:10:41):
top to glaze it. Or again you could use your
egg wash. I don't put anything on them, but you
could put some sesame seeds on there, some poppy seeds,
little bit of crack and pepper, and then cut them
in each roll into six pieces, so you've got six
individual sausage rolls. Fire them in the oven. They're going
to bake for thirty minutes, and then pull them out
and they're ready to go. If you freeze them, they

(01:11:01):
just add another five minutes onto it, so they'll take
thirty five minutes to cook delicious.

Speaker 3 (01:11:07):
Thank you so much, Mike. Enjoy the rest of your weekend.
You can get that recipe at good from scratch dot
co dot in z, and of course you'll be able
to get it at news talk zb dot co dot
in z forard slash Sunday. We'll get that up there
for you today, including everything else that we have spoken about.
All our interviews from today's show will be there for
you throughout their day. It is thirteen to eleven grab acover.

Speaker 1 (01:11:28):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudgin and Wikles for
the best selection of grapes used talk zed be.

Speaker 3 (01:11:35):
Time to talk wellness now, and I'm joined by Erin O'Hara.
Good morning, good morning. I always find you get to
the middle of the year and you think, goodness me,
the end of the year is going to be here
before I know it. But there's still quite a lot
of still quite a lot to get through, and it's
a very good time to sort of stop and you know,
if you can with the holidays, have a break, but
also maybe reassess your drinking habits and dry julyes upon us,

(01:11:59):
and I'm sure a lot of people are. I think
a lot of people do love this say is that
they use it as a bit of a reset and
reflect on their dreaming habits. And commonly in New Zealand,
it's not what we're drinking the way we're drinking, it's
the way we're drinking. Like, the binge drinking culture is
massive in New Zealand, and it's actually that age group
between eighteen to twenty four, which maybe not considering Dry July,

(01:12:23):
it seems to be more sort of slightly older demographic
that move into that dry July. But actually the drinking
culture is the biggest area that needs really addressing and
support is actually that eighteen to twenty four, yeah, age group.
And it's actually not.

Speaker 10 (01:12:39):
The quantity, it's the quantity they're drinking in a binge
behavior and that's actually putting the biggest risk on our health.

Speaker 3 (01:12:45):
And it's not just the risk the time when you're drinking,
but it's actually that long term.

Speaker 10 (01:12:50):
Risk as well, the effect that it has on our
organs and our brain and our liver that actually can
cause damage that's irreversible.

Speaker 3 (01:12:57):
As well, what is what determines are binge drinking? How
many drinks you have?

Speaker 2 (01:13:03):
Did? Well?

Speaker 10 (01:13:05):
That it would be different for different people, so women
and men, it's slightly different, but it would be drinking
to an excessive amount, to the point where you would
commonly either drink to an excess where maybe a blackout, vomiting,
so really really quite disorientated and drunk. Okay, So it's
not just having you know, two or three drinks. That

(01:13:26):
is not classified as a binge drinking behavior.

Speaker 3 (01:13:29):
All right, then, So I know that we hear quite
often that younger generations aren't drinking as much, but clearly
there is a group of them who are binge drinking,
and I would tend to agree with that. Are they
getting onto the non alcoholic drinks? Is there any sort
of interest in making a different choice? Do you think?

Speaker 10 (01:13:52):
I think that's definitely a big growing area is either
the low alcohol or no alcoholic drinks, and they are
gaining popularity because online with your Instagram, your TikTok, there's
a lot more promoting on healthcare conscious behaviors and obviously
drinking alcohol is classified as obviously not great for your health,

(01:14:12):
so people are swapping across. However, it's probably not enough
and it's still like with that branding with the non
alcoholic drink, it's not really changing the culture around sitting
around and gathering and having a drink, which is actually
part of that behavior of bin drinking, is actually gathering
as a group. And how do we change that because
it's still branded as whatever brand and promoting having their

(01:14:36):
alcoholic drink. And if someone does have a drinking problem,
generally even that taste that's familiar is actually triggering for
them to drink more So, sometimes that can actually trigger someone,
especially as someone who was an alcoholic, you usually wouldn't
want them to have something that was the similar flavor
to what they used to to having that experience of
being drunk. It's a big question, but how do we

(01:14:58):
change the culture then? How do we change the constira
I think it's becoming. You know, we've got to keep
working on being health conscious and not having it as
socially acceptable as drinking as part of our culture, and
that we need to change it as having it in
a different kind of way that it's not about drinking.
And when we go to sports events and it's been

(01:15:19):
a cool thing that we do as a group, as
a gathering, as a social thing, because really we drink
at all sorts of social gatherings, whether it's a birthday
party or Christmas, and people quite often more drink in
those situations because they think they want to be part
of that culture of celebrating. But actually, if we change
that celebrations sort of culture, maybe it's about, you know,

(01:15:41):
coming glass of water, maybe not so much fun, but
actually changing that whole culture around our drinking and actually
just getting us drinking less and not being as a
cool thing to be doing.

Speaker 3 (01:15:54):
Thank you so much erin We'll catch up next week.

Speaker 2 (01:15:56):
Grab a cover.

Speaker 1 (01:15:57):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudgin and wid calls
for the best selection of grape brings used talk z'd be.

Speaker 3 (01:16:05):
I love hearing about people who set the goals and
go for them, especially when those ideas could benefit mankind.
For decades now, people have been trying to achieve nuclear fusion,
which is pretty tricky and that's an understatement. Now a
Kiwi company is joining the mission, and the talent involved
has got a lot of tech people very excited. The

(01:16:27):
company is called open Star, and we talked to its founder,
doctor Rattu Matira. Next after the break, you're with the
Sunday Session. This is news tooksvod.

Speaker 11 (01:17:02):
It's gonna be all right.

Speaker 17 (01:17:05):
For it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:06):
We know. The best part is the ride Widow.

Speaker 11 (01:17:11):
It's gonna be all ride.

Speaker 2 (01:17:13):
Not gonna look for it.

Speaker 3 (01:17:16):
Right now.

Speaker 11 (01:17:17):
The best part we.

Speaker 2 (01:17:21):
Say no, no, bless whatever.

Speaker 1 (01:17:57):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francisca, Rudkin and Wiggles
for the best selection of great reeds.

Speaker 2 (01:18:03):
You toalk it being.

Speaker 3 (01:18:11):
Good to have your company. This are on the Sunday
Session coming up. Jason Pine's first thoughts on the All
Blacks England game last night, a cautionary tale about the
use of Wi Fi when traveling, and Joan has a
classic book reissue for us right now. A few weeks ago,
listening to Si and James, I heard a listener raving
about the work being done by Kiwi company Open Star,

(01:18:33):
so we went digging. Open Star was founded by physicist
doctor Ratu Metida, and the company has an ambitious goal
to recreate the holy grail of energy nuclear fusion on
Earth to power the planet. Last year, the company received
ten million in private investment to reach their goals, with
Ruttuo being talked up as the most ambitious KIWI founder
since Peter Beck. So to learn more about these goals

(01:18:56):
and the future of nuclear fusion, doctor Ratu Matida joins me.
Now he is the founder and CEO of open Star.
Good morning, Good morning, Francisca, so good.

Speaker 4 (01:19:06):
To have you with us.

Speaker 3 (01:19:07):
Tell me why did you start open Start? What is
it about nuclear fusion that excites you?

Speaker 19 (01:19:15):
What is it that excites me? It's for pure potential
of it. So I think if I had been born
in a decade or a couple of decades ago, I
could have spent my physicist career working on things that
were kind of purely interesting. But fusion has the advantage
of being incredibly useful. And the challenge of our time

(01:19:36):
is climate change, and so we need to continue to
look at every possibility to help fight that challenge, and
I think fusion is one of those options.

Speaker 3 (01:19:45):
This is an ambitious project, isn't.

Speaker 19 (01:19:47):
It is the definition of ambities.

Speaker 3 (01:19:53):
I can't deny that, because I think I've heard it
sort of said that nuclear fusion is something that will
take fifty years, in a sort of saying it'll take
thirty years, but you're you're pretty confident it might only
take ten.

Speaker 19 (01:20:05):
Yeah, And the reason for that is whilst open Star
is a new company, we're picking up on ideas that
have been worked on over those many decades, and so
some of the ways of doing fusion might not make
the difference or might not go over distance, but the
technologies that have been developed as part of that can
be used in other ways of doing fusion, and eventually

(01:20:26):
one of these pathways will succeed. And so while open
Star is relatively young, we think the several decades of
progress so far has set up a foundation that this
is the next step of the journey and is on
that shorter time horizon.

Speaker 3 (01:20:41):
I did see talked about open Star is the most
exciting project in New Zealand at the moment, would you agree?

Speaker 19 (01:20:49):
Certainly for me and my team, that's simply because you know,
we're in the throes of it day by day. But yeah,
I will try not to be too yeah, not not
too much hubris there.

Speaker 3 (01:21:02):
I think scientists around the world have been trying to
achieve this thing decades. Why haven't we cracked it yet?

Speaker 19 (01:21:09):
Well, frankly, it is extremely difficult to achieve and one
of the reasons for that is the sun creates fusion.
That's where the energy comes from. But in order to
do so, you have to get the material extremely hot.
And I don't mean thousands of degrees melt metal hot.
I mean millions of degrees melts literally anything. And so

(01:21:32):
we have to build these very sophisticated magnets to kind
of hold on to these very hot plasmas, but hold
on to them without actually touching them, and just getting
that right, holding on to it in a way that
a stable allows you to make it incredibly hot. Has
just taken a lot of time and effort, and technology
has had to improve to get here. But we're trying

(01:21:55):
to recreate the fundamental energy source of a universe, and
no one said it would be easy.

Speaker 3 (01:22:01):
Why is it so hard to create fusion on Earth? Ratto?

Speaker 19 (01:22:06):
So the reason being that the sun is actually one
way to put it is the sun is actually a
very bad fusion reactor. If you were to reach your
hand into the Sun and just grab a lump of sun,
it would be producing a little bit of fusion, but
not that much. The amount of energy a clump of
sun produces is about the same as your compost in

(01:22:29):
your home, just slowly being eaten. By bacteria. The reason
why the Sun provides all the energy that it does
is simply because of its size. So the Sun is
effectively an enormous pile of compost. Now to be useful
for humans, we have to do what the Sun does
and then do it better. Because if all I was
proposing was to build a big pile of compost, not

(01:22:51):
none of the investors would be very interested.

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
Not so much.

Speaker 3 (01:22:54):
No, are you the only ones in New Zealand doing.

Speaker 19 (01:22:57):
This, working on a direct concept like this. So the
reason why we're based in New Zealand is because we
come from a recent search institute called Robinson. And Robinson
works on a lot of the input technologies that other
fusion companies are also interested in, and so they're working
with the UK Atomic Energy Authority, they're working with companies

(01:23:18):
like Commonwealth Fusion Systems based in the United States, and
they're working closely with us as well. And we've recruited
a lot of graduates out of Robinson and that's where
I did my PhD. And so open Star is the
only company working on a full reactor concept, but there
are plenty of people in New Zealand who are starting
to look at and have been looking at the different

(01:23:38):
input technologies involved with fusion.

Speaker 3 (01:23:41):
What does that mean? What kind of input would you have?

Speaker 19 (01:23:46):
So the big one that New Zealand turns out to
be very good at is the superconducting magnets that are involved.
So there's basically a new generation of magnet technology that
has really come to fruition over the last ten years.
And that's gone from discovering new materials to scaling those

(01:24:07):
materials to create useful products and then solving the problems
to create useful systems. And Robinson has been at the
forefront of that probably for at least for the last
three decades. And at each step of the way, they
move up the value chain, so they start off on
materials and these days they're working on hybrid electric aircraft, fusion,

(01:24:29):
advanced sensing, but with a strong focus on that magnet technology.
And that's kind of a heart that's enabling so many
of his new fusion companies around the world, is that
we can build more powerful magnets which are better at
holding on to these hot plasmas.

Speaker 3 (01:24:46):
You mentioned that different people have taken different pathways over
the decades. Which pathway are you taking? How are you
trying to create nuclear fusion.

Speaker 19 (01:24:55):
So for listeners, I would say.

Speaker 3 (01:24:58):
Imagine I'm five, talk to me like I'm yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:25:00):
Right.

Speaker 19 (01:25:01):
So the best way to explain it is to reference
things that exists in the world. And so if you
look at our planet Earth, the Earth has a magnetic field.
If you have a compass, it points towards north. Now,
that magnetic field extends all around the Earth and it
creates what we call a magnetosphere, and that's really just

(01:25:22):
particles that have come all the way from the Sun.
I think many of your listeners will have been lucky
enough to see the aurora about a month ago, which
was those particles hitting the Earth. But the magnetic field
of the Earth actually catches these particles and it holds
onto them, and so we get a plasma. It's not
very hot, but that plasma has been around the Earth

(01:25:44):
since Earth has had a magnetic field. If that plasma
wasn't there, the solar wind would have actually blown away
the atmosphere of Earth and we would be a barren
rock just like Mars. Actually, so life on Earth exists
because of this magnetosphere. What we're doing at Open Star
is we're taking that same concept of capture during plasma

(01:26:08):
using a simple dipole shaped magnet. And you know you're five,
so I'm going to teach you what a dipol is.
It's just a simple bar magnet.

Speaker 2 (01:26:16):
Of it's up.

Speaker 3 (01:26:17):
I appreciate it.

Speaker 8 (01:26:18):
Yeah, But the really.

Speaker 19 (01:26:21):
Interesting thing about using that kind of confinement is that
the plasma is actually stable. Just like the magnetosphere above
our heads. These plasmas are long lived, they're stable, they
don't disrupt, and when you're building a really complicated machine
that has to get this plasma really really hot, starting
off at that stable point is a very useful foundation.

(01:26:42):
It means that the machine's not going to get too
complicated as you try to scale the technology. So what
we're trying to do is recreate a magnetosphere inside a laboratory,
and that's been done twice in the world already by
two other experiments in academia, and we're taking the next
step to incorporate new technologies.

Speaker 8 (01:27:00):
In order to do that.

Speaker 19 (01:27:01):
So we've got this magnet. It can hold onto the plasma.
It looks like the magnetosphere, and because we're not actually
touching that plasma, we can actually get it really, really hot,
and eventually it gets hot enough to actually start fusing
the ions or the hydrogen that we put inside. By
fusing that material, it produces heat and producing heat, then

(01:27:23):
the story becomes quite dull. You take that heat, you
boil water, you drive a steam turbine. Really we're rebuilding
coal power plants, but without the coal.

Speaker 3 (01:27:32):
So what resources go into this to create it? You
mentioned hydrogen, then, yeah.

Speaker 19 (01:27:38):
So there are different isotopes of hydrogen, and so this
three one is the everyday hydrogen that is the majority
of what we see, and so water is mostly this
kind of hydrogen. The second is what we call heavy hydrogen.
It's called deuterium technically, and that's actually abundant. It's only

(01:27:58):
in trace amounts, but if you actually take a bath
tub full of sea water, there is enough deuterium in
that sea water to provide enough energy for one person
for their whole lifetime. And so there's not a lot
of it. But fusion is just such a great way
of making energy that it's very resource efficient, and so

(01:28:19):
we think we can get all vegetarium that humanity will
ever need by extracting vegetarium from seawater. And then lastly,
there's another isotope called tritium, which is not as abundant,
and you have to create it inside the machine, and
we create it from lithium. So if you actually look
at the trucks that turn up to the fusion power

(01:28:40):
plant of the future, one is actually probably an uber
driver carrying a small bottle of deetarium because that's all
you need. And then the other is actually lithium. So
you input lithium, we turn the lithium into tritium, and
then we fuse the tritium to create energy.

Speaker 3 (01:28:56):
Is it safe you talk about this plasma and how
hot it's going to get. Are there any dangers around
this process?

Speaker 19 (01:29:05):
That's a really good que question. So heat is an
interesting thing. The plasma is very very hot in terms
of temperature, but the nice thing about it is is
not very much of it at all, and a full
scale power plant there's only ever one gram of plasma
at any given time, and so the amount of energy
that's actually stored in that plasma is a lot when

(01:29:27):
you're talking about a machine, but when you're talking about
risk to you know, the surroundings, it's essentially nothing. And
so we have to be careful that we build machines
that don't destroy themselves. But that's actually on the same
magnitude of risk that any large industrial process has to
deal with. So any kind of existing power plant or

(01:29:48):
any kind of steel mill, you know, anything with big, heavy,
hot things has the same kind of risk factors. And
that's one of the reasons why physicists are so excited
about fusion is because it's fundamentally safe a way than
some of the other alternatives.

Speaker 3 (01:30:05):
Who or what has inspired you to take on such
a large challenge and work on.

Speaker 19 (01:30:11):
This A backpedal from making it sound like I'm obsessed
with taking on big challenges at a personal level. I
just wanted to work on something that I thought might
only exist if I worked on it, and I think
that's something I should resonate with anyone creative you know.
Any artist or musician you know is trying to create
something that's only there because they made it. That's my

(01:30:34):
actual drive in terms of who inspired me to take
it to this degree. I'm really lucky to be able
to draw inspiration from my grandmother, who played a huge
role in revitalizing today omari and so saving that from extinction,
and I consider that to be equally as preposterous a

(01:30:54):
task to give. You know, a person to do. And
if she could take that on, then what excuse could
I find not to take on the biggest problem kind
of presented to me. But we take our jobs at
Open Star step by step. With humilody. We just ask
ourselves for question, can we take the next step? What's

(01:31:15):
in our way? Is there any reason we can't do this?
And if we can't find a good reason not to
do it, we're going to try take that next step.

Speaker 3 (01:31:22):
Oh look, something we should all live by. Thank you
so much for your time today, and we'll keep in
touch with you and see how things are going. That
was doctor Ratu Matida there from Open Star talking about
nuclear fusion and I hope if you've got a bit
of a gist of what nuclear fusion is and how
it all works. I definitely needed to be explained to
it like I was five, and I think that who

(01:31:43):
did a very good job. It is twenty past eleven
News Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:31:46):
He'd be keep it's simple. It's Sunday the Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:31:50):
Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection
of the Gravers News.

Speaker 3 (01:31:55):
Talks'db and joining us on the Sunday Session panel today.
We have got co day host Laurna, Riley Hilrna Morning,
and we have Singer pr Consultant and one plus one
Communications Damien Venuto.

Speaker 19 (01:32:07):
How are you, Damien, I'm really well, Francisca.

Speaker 3 (01:32:11):
Thanks good to have you both with us. So did
you see the three News bulletin last night?

Speaker 2 (01:32:16):
Laurma?

Speaker 3 (01:32:17):
Did you make that appointment viewing?

Speaker 22 (01:32:19):
Ah?

Speaker 13 (01:32:19):
I didn't because I was busy being mum uber at
the time. I'm sure you can relate. But I did
watch it later on demand. I thought it was easy
to see. It's part of the Stuff family, with the
modern graphics, less formal, maybe than were used to with
a news bulletin, perhaps aimed at a younger audience, and
maybe because I was watching on demand, but I thought
there was a feateething issues that audio sync without with

(01:32:41):
a live cross to the news room. But generally I
thought it was better than I thought it was going
to be. They had an exclusive the Jujan story, Paula
Penfold bringing her journalistic gravitas to it. Great to make
an impact there. Good to see the face of the
bulletin too. Samantha Hayes with a story that I'm aware
was also an exclusive, a heartwarming one God make some stories.
Didn't feel like a lot of filler, which often weekend

(01:33:02):
bulletins can do, and I love the interactivity of it.
There was a link to the stuff quiz topical question
to hold you through the break. There was a live
poll results at the end of the bulletin, and I
thought there were two pos to the great job as well.

Speaker 3 (01:33:14):
I think she did as well. A couple of things there, Damien,
the half hour. It makes sense in a weekend I think,
I believe.

Speaker 23 (01:33:22):
Yeah, yeah, I mean you don't want it to be
too long and you don't want it to be too short.
That it's criticized for being light and low on detail.
The one problem is that I don't know if you
watched at Francesca. I didn't, so I can pretty much
confirm that two out of three people didn't tune in
live to watch that.

Speaker 2 (01:33:41):
Fundamentally fundamentally the problem, well, no.

Speaker 3 (01:33:44):
The problem is that I only tuned in because it
was new. I don't normally get my news from sitting
down and watching the news at six o'clock, and I
don't drink. I don't think any of us. I don't
think you do probably do either, Lorna. There's other things
going on in world, and I listen to the radio,
and I read newspapers online and things. That's where I
get my news. So I watched it out of curiosity.
I thought they did really well, possibly because they had

(01:34:05):
given us kind of the heads up that it's that
they're not fully happy with the product yet it's not
where they want it to be. So I think they
set the expectations quite low, so I thought. But like you,
lor and I thought it was pretty slick, pretty snappy. Technically,
it did kind of go quite well, quite busy, quite bold,
lot of purple.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:34:26):
But I think I think if you were if you
were sitting, you know, if you were concerned about the
media Damien, and that there wouldn't be another, you know,
real option at six of something else to watch, I
think you can reas assured there's there's absolutely another product
there for you.

Speaker 2 (01:34:42):
Yeah, there is another product.

Speaker 23 (01:34:44):
My concern is that I don't know how long it's
sustainable because, let's say said previously, media works tried for
years and years and years, This discovery tried for years
and years and years.

Speaker 2 (01:34:53):
Nobody could make this.

Speaker 23 (01:34:55):
Concept as profitable as what it needs to be to
be sustainable and that's really the challenge that stuff's going
to have as they move forward. It's the idea of
sustainable news product.

Speaker 2 (01:35:04):
You can make a news product that's good enough.

Speaker 23 (01:35:06):
Whether that's financially sustainable as a quite a different question.

Speaker 3 (01:35:11):
No, I agree, I was trying not to look forward
too much, Damien. I was going, well done, you got
to air, you know what, I LRNA you could always
you could almost I could almost sort of feel sort
of the sigh of relief the minute they got to
six thirty and the round of applause that they gave
themselves for getting at that point, and the small amount
of time, yeah, that they've taken to kind of that

(01:35:32):
they've had to get this up and running for sure.

Speaker 13 (01:35:34):
And we see lots of stories about you know, arguments
in the news room and all that kind of thing,
and I think, yeah, they did a great job all
things considered.

Speaker 2 (01:35:41):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:35:41):
We had an expert on this morning who was concerned
housing changes by the government might mean that we end
up with cheap, slum like developments. Damien, Are you concerned
what we're seeing with the moves that the government has made,
even though they're not hugely different to what we kind
of already have in place.

Speaker 19 (01:36:01):
Francisco.

Speaker 23 (01:36:02):
I think I come from a slightly different perspective, and
maybe it comes from the fact that I've actually lived
in a country that does have slum like developments, actually
several countries that have some like developments, And what I
found is that slum like developments aren't the product of
the quality of the building. It's the product of inequality
across the society. If people don't have enough money to

(01:36:23):
pay for accommodation, they're going to live wherever they can,
and that's really the concern that New Zealand has. I
think that anything that will increase building, make affordable housing
a little bit more accessible to more people has to
be a good move because the status quo hasn't worked.
It's created an affordability crisis in New Zealand that that's
locked out a lot of people. So if there are steps,

(01:36:45):
incremental steps they can move toward improving that situation, I
think that that's really good. So I'm kind of in
favor of trying a few different things, trying to make
housing a little bit more affordable, building a few more houses.
I'm definitely in favor of that because it's what the
country needs. Obviously there are concerns if this goes the
wrong way, we might end up with the leaky building

(01:37:07):
crisis down the road. But I really think that affordability
needs to be increased across the housing portfolio. There there's
a real need for more people to have access to
bordable homes.

Speaker 2 (01:37:18):
Nona.

Speaker 13 (01:37:20):
Yeah, look, I think it's understandable than an architecture and
planning professor might criticize these quick chick build but you know,
as long as they're clean and dry, they'll probably be
a much better option for people than draft the old bungalow.
But I think there's a bigger worry here, the massive
info housing that we're seeing around infrastructure, essential services, road
and public transport. We have a problem in many of

(01:37:40):
our major cities. Were desperately needed upgrades on storm water
and wastewater system, and we're creating major traffic bottlenecks in
our biggest city, you know, Auckland built on an dismiss
Many new builds are happening in suburbs where there will
only ever be one road in and out, So that
is a big issue for us. And I'm also concerned
about sort of a side issue that room size minimums

(01:38:01):
are being scrapped, and that to me is a concern.
If we end up with projects more like rooms, what
kind of society are we creating, not what we like
to think of as the way of life.

Speaker 3 (01:38:14):
Yeah, it's an interesting one, isn't it? Because I think
that Damien. I think you make a very good point
that we do need a range of housing that and
we absolutely need some affordable housing put in play there,
But there's an awful lot of other things to consider.
And Lorner, you touch on the infrastructure, which applies to
not just intensification, but also when we're when we're creating

(01:38:35):
new suburbs and areas on the fringes of the city,
taking that one full productive land that we have as well,
and who's going to pay for that? And you know,
the last thing we want is another new suburb in
a flood risk zone.

Speaker 23 (01:38:48):
Damien, Yeah, I just I mean part of the reason
why my wife and I decided to sell our home
in Glen Eden. We loved our home, we loved the
community that we lived in. It was simply because the
commute became too much for us. We were sitting in
traffic for probably an hour and a half to to work.
Can home every day. The train system was unreliable and

(01:39:09):
those are fundamentally infrastructure problems. And then with the new
developments that they were building in Glen Eden, I just
saw that traffic as becoming worse. So we now live
in an apartment, and I must say I'm really happy
because my commute's really easy. I get home on time,
and I can actually hang out with my daughter, which
was a privilege I didn't have previously.

Speaker 3 (01:39:29):
Interesting. Right, let's move on to the really important issues
of the day. The All Blacks, the collars. It's been
a bit of an issue here in the newsroom early
this morning, and actually I have not had one person
text throughout the morning to say, yep, no, they were great.
Love the jerseys. Everyone's kind of had some quite interesting
comments to make about them. On the on the All

(01:39:49):
Blacks last night playing England, yay or nay, Lorna.

Speaker 13 (01:39:53):
I say yay, sorry to go here, like absolutely, like
I had loved them old school. They reminded me of
being a kid getting up them and night and watching
the All Blacks games. And don't forget the All Blacks
jerseys featured white coll when they won both the nineteen
eighty seven and twenty eleven Rugby World Cup tournaments, so
they could be lucky for us.

Speaker 3 (01:40:12):
Who knows, who knows, Damien.

Speaker 23 (01:40:15):
I'm going to go with Lorna on this, and I
hate this because we tend to agree on a lot
of things. But I kind of like the I like
the non to heritage. I like the leaning on old
design to create something new. I like the I like
that it's making people feel uncomfortable.

Speaker 24 (01:40:29):
It's kind of like when I saw.

Speaker 19 (01:40:30):
Polo Necks and Baggy Jean's returned for the first time.

Speaker 23 (01:40:33):
I was disgusted by it, but now I'm like, oh,
it's not that bad.

Speaker 2 (01:40:36):
Not that bad.

Speaker 3 (01:40:37):
I don't mind that. I don't mind the association with
the past. I think that is lovely and a bit
of tradition there and thinks, oh, that was just really distracting.
And then I was watching it how dirty they were getting,
and I was going, oh, what a nightmare.

Speaker 13 (01:40:51):
English.

Speaker 23 (01:40:55):
It's gone from the blackest jersey and his ever made
where they went through that fans man, it had to
be like as black as possible, to know. I like
playing around at the design again, so I'd love to
see what comes next.

Speaker 3 (01:41:06):
Well, yeah, no, we shall hold our breath, Lorna Riley
and Damian Benutto thank you so much for your time
this morning on the panel. It is twenty seven to
twelve News Talks at BE.

Speaker 1 (01:41:19):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at B.

Speaker 3 (01:41:24):
Jason Pine is indoneda and he joins us now, good morning.

Speaker 18 (01:41:27):
I love this city.

Speaker 25 (01:41:28):
I really like it here.

Speaker 3 (01:41:29):
Oh that's great. Oh that's good Jason.

Speaker 25 (01:41:32):
Yeah, sorry, just sort of stream of consciousness stuff.

Speaker 3 (01:41:36):
Good to know you're enjoying it, having a good time.

Speaker 25 (01:41:39):
I'm just looking out the window here at at ZB
and Dunedin before flying back to Wellington later. And I just,
I just I always love coming here. The people are nice,
the weather's a bit chili but you've bot a jacket on.
The rugby was got under the roof last night. They
really get into it. The Octagon seems to be, you know,
a real social meeting place for all types of different people.
I really like daninan.

Speaker 3 (01:41:59):
Fantastic I do too good to hear. What do you
think about the rugby.

Speaker 25 (01:42:03):
I enjoyed the game of rugby. I thought it was
a terrific test match. And I've mentioned a couple of
times during the commentary last night. That's why they call
them test matches, because they test you to you know,
to come out with your best. I thought England were terrific.
I thought they came with a physicality and a commitment
and a desire and a real energy that the All
Blacks really had to work hard to match. And to

(01:42:24):
be honest with you, I think England probably won some
pretty key parts of that game around the collision the
way tho as I say, they brought the physicality, but
New Zealand found a way to win, you know, Raisors regime,
Raisors rain is off, you know, with a victory.

Speaker 2 (01:42:39):
But man, it was it was some nervous.

Speaker 25 (01:42:42):
Times in the commentary box rather the coaching box last night,
I'm sure for Razor and his and his team.

Speaker 3 (01:42:48):
Oh no, that was a whole other show that we
were watching. It's fantastic.

Speaker 25 (01:42:51):
They should just have, like you should just be able
to watch the coaching Box as one of those channels
selectors on Sky, right, you just go, okay, just select
the coaches box, just have.

Speaker 3 (01:42:58):
The commentary going in your ears, just have in your
ears and just watched the coach's box. You know, you're
onto something there. Did you think we saw Scott robertson
mark on the performance last night? Did you say a
little bit take a couple of games before we kind of, yeah,
a little bit.

Speaker 25 (01:43:12):
Yeah, if you I guess what you you think toes
of Okay, well, if you didn't know there'd be a
coaching if you didn't know there'd been a coaching change,
would you would you see something vastly different from last year?
I'm not sure we really did. You know, they knew
what England were going to bring and they had to
combat it. So yeah, and as we know, there were
no debutants. It wasn't as though they you know, he

(01:43:33):
brought a whole lot of new players in. So yeah,
I think the big talking point was was Damien McKenzie's
kick at the end being timed out? Did you see that? Yeah,
they've got to have the shot clock on the big screen. Francesca,
there's got to be an investigation into this.

Speaker 3 (01:43:46):
Just a love the look on his face, it was
just completely blank, like you've got to be.

Speaker 2 (01:43:51):
What is going on?

Speaker 25 (01:43:52):
He came into the media conference afterwards rather sheepishly, but
he owned it. He totally owned it. He said, look,
I need to I need to be quicker. The rule
is as soon as you indicate that you're taking a
shot at goal, you've got sixty seconds, but it takes
about twenty seconds for the kicking tea to get out
there for starters. I've watched it back and I've timed it.

(01:44:13):
Damian McKenzie doesn't have the ball on the tee. He
doesn't step back from the kicking tea until thirty nine seconds.
That gives him twenty one seconds to go through his routine.
And you know what, Damian McKenzie, You know he looks
at the ball, looks up at the posts, looks at
the ball, looks up, gives a little smile that give
us a smile, and just as he was completing his smile,

(01:44:33):
sixty seconds were up.

Speaker 3 (01:44:35):
I'm sorry. Anyway, we can laugh because we won the game.
I wouldn't be laughing if we didn't. So anyway, there
we go. Well, it's going to be a fantastic test
next weekend, doesign I agree?

Speaker 25 (01:44:45):
Ah sold out of Eden Park two with extra seats
in there, so we're going to have an absolute belter.
But yeah, after midday we'll break it all down. Lots
of chances for people to call in and tell us
what they thought. And also after too Hamish Carter, a
triathlon gold medalist from Athens in two thousand and four.

Speaker 3 (01:45:01):
Fantastic can't wait. Thanks so much, Poney, enjoy the rest
of your time in Donedan.

Speaker 1 (01:45:05):
It is twenty to t Sunday with Style the Sunday
Session with Francesca Rudkin and Winkles for the best selection
of great reeds. He's talks Travel with Wendy wu Tours
unique fully inclusive tours around the world.

Speaker 3 (01:45:23):
Yes, time to talk travel, and Megan Singleton, blogger at
large dot com, joins us now. Good morning, good morning.
Interesting story this week about using free Wi Fi in airports.

Speaker 24 (01:45:35):
Exactly well, I'm referring to this as my public service
announcement actually for the week about the dangers of using
a free Wi Fi service when we travel. After a
perthman was arrested for stealing flyers information on board when
he set up a bogus Wi Fi and made it
look like the airlines Wi Fi. So he was caught

(01:45:58):
by airline staff who noticed a suspicious Wi Fi network
on board and he was harvesting people's data from on
the plane. I didn't even know that could happen to
be honest, So he'd been doing it on flights and
at airports because.

Speaker 2 (01:46:15):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:46:15):
You sent through some notes and you said, I think
we all know not to check our bank accounts or
types of you know, passwords when using free hotel or
airport or city Wi Fi. And I was going, no,
I just take free Wi Fi. I take free WiFi
wherever I can get it when I'm traveling.

Speaker 24 (01:46:32):
Yeah, and how easy is it for someone to set
up a Wi Fi account called, you know, Auckland City
Free Wi Fi or Air New Zealand Wi Fi on
board the plane and it's actually not. So that's what
this guy had. He had these devices to just harvest
people's material. So what they're saying is to avoid it.

(01:46:52):
You never should need to log in with any personal
details when you're using a free Wi Fi spot like
you shouldn't have to log in through your social media.
You shouldn't have to give your email address. And if
you think about when you do log in to city
WiFi or even a news Eland's WiFi, all you do
is you find the right channel and you accept their
treams and conditions, and that is all you should do.

(01:47:12):
So I guess it's just a little reminder, and then
I never would open my bank accounts or do anything
like that when I'm using not my own data plan.
So you can check on your phone. Am I using
a hotel Wi Fi or a free city Wi Fi?
If so, I won't check my bank And if I'm
using my own five G, four G whatever, then I

(01:47:34):
know that that's safe. That's my plan, and I can
log in and check that out. The other thing you
could use is a VPN, have a virtual private network
and that encrypts your data.

Speaker 3 (01:47:46):
So if you are.

Speaker 24 (01:47:47):
Somewhere abroad and you know you're needing to access some
things that might have your details, you can use a VPN.
You can actually download those there, you know what. They're
quite handy to have if you want to just be
browsing like you're living in another country. For example, if
you wanted to get onto chip and Joanna gains is
magnolia marketplace website. This is just a big bugbear of mine.

(01:48:09):
They are banned outside of the US for any browsing.
You can't look at their shops or anything. So use
your VPN pretender in America and then you can go
looking at Magnolia market is service and now.

Speaker 3 (01:48:20):
Right, yeah, you're allowed to have a VPN. You're not,
you're not. You're not assuring illegal tips with us, Megan.

Speaker 2 (01:48:27):
No, no, no, no no no.

Speaker 24 (01:48:28):
So all that does is it just encrypts your your whereabouts.
So a lot of people use them when traveling, Like
if you're in a place like China, you can't access
a lot of websites without a VPN, So it's essential
for traveling to places that you still need to access
your work or your own social media accounts or whatever.

(01:48:48):
Even even the New Zealand Herald, you probably won't be
able to get that in some countries where where that
sort of media is banned. So you do need a VPN.
And then you can just say, oh, I'm in Singapore,
or you just look at all the signals that come
up as to where.

Speaker 2 (01:49:01):
You can be.

Speaker 3 (01:49:02):
And so it's pretty easy to use for someone like
me who's the useless with technology. It basically just says
that you're somewhere you're not. That's all that you can
activate it and it says right.

Speaker 24 (01:49:12):
Okay, coy totally where you want to be, full of.

Speaker 3 (01:49:17):
Useful tips this morning, Meghan, You're welcome. Thank you so
much good to catch up with you. We will talk
to you next week. That was Meghan Singleton. Of course,
you can read all her travel blogs at blogger at
large dot com.

Speaker 2 (01:49:32):
Books with Wiggles for the best selection of great reads.

Speaker 3 (01:49:38):
Time to talk books now, and I'm joined by Joe Mackenzie.
Good morning, Hello. This is interesting Knife River by Justine Champagne.

Speaker 22 (01:49:45):
Yes, that's how I'm saying it.

Speaker 3 (01:49:47):
Brilliant, We'll stick with that.

Speaker 22 (01:49:48):
I believe it's her first book. It's a novel which
I would describe as something of a slow burn. And
those books can be really good the way that they
reveal themselves to you as you go through the story.
And it's about two sisters, Jess and Liz, and when
fifteen years ago they were living in a small town
called Knife River with their mother. Their mother went out

(01:50:08):
for a walk one day and never came back, and
the girls have spent the next fifteen years wondering what
on earth happened to her. And there's a guy in
the town that they're pretty sure is the villain, but
they've never been able to pin it on him, and
they keep harassing the police, saying you need to go
and get this guy, and pick him up. Even fifteen
years afterwards, and nothing ever happens well. Jess has moved
to New York City and she's trying to build a

(01:50:31):
life there for herself, but it's really hard because she's
got this thing in her life that makes it very
difficult to settle down to anything. So she drifts through
relationships and life's not going too well. And when she
gets a phone call one day to say that her
mother's remains have been found in this little town of
Knife River, she goes back and moves back into the
childhood home with her sister Liz, who never left. And

(01:50:54):
Liz just can't let go of the past. So she's
living in this little town that's failing. It used to
be a factory town. There's hardly any work there anymore.
She's got a menial job on a bank, whereas actually
she had much greater aspirations. So their lives are kind
of on hold, and in a wider sense, the town
around them is on hold. And the story about what

(01:51:15):
did happen to her mother eventually reveals itself. But as
I say, it's a slow burn. It's very well done,
and it's a lovely story about siblings and sisters and
women and relationships and the mystery of what happens when
someone just suddenly isn't there anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:51:32):
I can't remember what we were talking about, but it
was quite recently. You mentioned Drawn Crackhar's book Into Thin Air,
and I thought to myself, I must reread that, can you.
We're talking about a book back then called Everest in Ah,
that's right, which is about the commercialization of mass well done,
good memory. And I thought to myself, I must grab

(01:51:54):
a copy of that and read it again. I haven't
read it well for years. And what do you know,
it's been reissued. Yes, here we go.

Speaker 22 (01:52:00):
Yes, So Interothanya first came out in nineteen ninety seven,
so it's almost thirty years ago. And it's the story
of John Krackhau, who was a journalist for a magazine
called Outdoors. He was also a climber. He'd done some
pretty amazing, pretty scary, I thought, climbs around various parts
of the world. He did one in Alaska, which sounded extraordinary,

(01:52:21):
and Outdoor magazine wanted him to write a piece about
the commercialization of Mount Everest, so he teamed up with
Rob Hall the New Zealand Mountain guide who was doing
guided a Sense of Everest, and he went there in
nineteen ninety six in the month of May, which was
one of the worst times ever on Mount Everest. So

(01:52:44):
John Crackau, along with the others in Rob Hall's party,
climbed the mountain. They encountered appalling weather which was unexpected,
and it blew in very suddenly. And he says in
the book if it had come in an hour earlier
or two hours later, it wouldn't have had the same impact.
But five people died on that expedition, one of whom

(01:53:05):
was guy Rob Hall, who was the leader. Another guy
was so badly frostbitten that he had to have amputations
when he got back.

Speaker 3 (01:53:14):
To the real world.

Speaker 22 (01:53:16):
And this is the story of exactly what happened then.
But also you know, it talks about the need that
people have to go and climb somewhere like Mount Everest.
And at one point in the book he's talking about
looking back behind him and there's a cue of fifty
people on their way up to the top of Everest,
and more and more and more people were going there

(01:53:37):
to be guided. But obviously it comes with extreme risk.
This I think is considered to be something of a
modern classic. It's one of the great narrative nonfiction books,
and it's really written from the heart and the mind
and the personal experience of getting stuck up on that
mountain when things were just dreadful.

Speaker 3 (01:53:55):
Has it been reissued because it is a classic or
also because it's still relevant and it's sort of a
bit of a timeless story today.

Speaker 22 (01:54:02):
Well, I'm not sure why they chose to do it,
but I think having just read Everest Inc, I thought
that this may have been brought out in a kind
of supporting role to that, to say this was the
beginning of guided as CeNSE and people paying an awful
lot of money to go and climb this mountain. And
now it's rampant. There is more than ever of it
going on, and it's still as relevant now as it

(01:54:24):
was back then.

Speaker 3 (01:54:25):
I'm going to reread it. Thank you so much. Joan
Knife River by Justin Champagne was the first book. And
Into Thin Air by John Cracker. We took next week
see you then.

Speaker 2 (01:54:34):
Leap It's simple.

Speaker 1 (01:54:35):
It's Sunday the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for.

Speaker 2 (01:54:39):
The best selection of grays News Talk z'd be.

Speaker 3 (01:54:43):
Thank you so much for listening to the show this
morning and for your feedback. Of course, it's the first
week of the school holidays. If that impacts you, best
of luck and let's hope for some fine weather. Thank
you so much to Kerrie for producing the show. We
have three winners for Steve Borneus's book The Survivors, gabrielle

(01:55:03):
En Sue. I believe that Carry has already text you
to can gratulations on wedding the books. We will get
those out to you, don't forget. Coming up next at midday,
we've got Jason Pine. He is in Dunedin. He's got
three hours of sports talk coming your way and I
know he's very keen to hear your thoughts on how
the game went last night. Have a great week. We're

(01:55:24):
going to finish with a little bit of Teddy Swims
Well I think is in the country at the moment. Yes,
take care. See you next Sunday.

Speaker 11 (01:55:32):
Your suit, your nun's still me.

Speaker 26 (01:55:46):
In your break him hearty, whose come when you're not

(01:56:18):
new win me? I'm falling, I following in fu can.

Speaker 17 (01:56:26):
You FEJM thanking me.

Speaker 11 (01:56:41):
Breaking my Harready you do list Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:56:48):
For more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin. Listen
live to News Talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

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