The most famous couple in New Zealand's acting scene have been entertaining Kiwi audiences on the screen and the stage for 40 years - and now they're set to do their first two-person show.
Michael Hurst and Jennifer Ward-Lealand have appeared in 22 different shows together, but In Other Words promises to showcase the pair's skillset as they play a married couple impacted by Alzheimer's.
The pair claim the play will take viewers to a lot of places - and show them a story full of love and heart and music and connection.
In Other Words will be performed at Auckland's Q Theatre from September 3-15.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Jennifer Wardley London Michael Hurst are surely our most legendary
theater couple, having met in nineteen eighty three through the theater.
Their careers and love story span over forty years. They've
appeared on stage together many times, we think maybe approximately
thirty plays, but their latest project is the first time
the two of them have carried a whole show on
(00:34):
their own. It is called in other Words, and incidentally,
the title of the play comes from Frank Sinatra's fly
Me to the Moon. Jennifer and Michael, good morning, Yeah,
really good to have you with us.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
You didn't meet it awkand Theater Company because it hadn't
quite didn't quite exist then. It was just the corporate theater. Corporate,
that's right, small theatre.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I'm sure some of your listeners will have been there
over the years, most in about nineteen eighty six, and
am I right? You have?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Have you ever appeared in a play with just a
two of do you?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Never have? No?
Speaker 4 (01:09):
We played married a Couple in the Goat at Silo
in nineteen two thousand and five, and you know, there
were four of us in the play, but it was
focused on us as a couple. But that's as close
as because I've.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Seen you together in place a lot. But I did think,
gosh for all that time.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
And this one's quite a special one because this couple
is a long term married couple. So how much works
involved here? You know, apart from this slog of learning
lines and making sure we really, you know, get the
into the depths of this piece, there is an ease
and a just a knowing of each other that is
a real shortcut for us.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Do you think that being a couple in real life
does lend some authenticity to to the story to this one?
Speaker 4 (01:53):
It done. Also, the scripts has a naturalistic level to it.
I mean we were doing lines at home, remember.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
That time is I did one of the lines for me.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
It was just so real. I suddenly started laughing because
I felt like we were at home. Yes, because she
was saying things like did you pay that bill at
the bank? What did you pay it? I think so,
And you're just going, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
This is so real, is it you? Or if you
just said this is what it was?
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Yeah, I couldn't stop laughing and then and it's like that.
I know it works in rehearsal sometimes where we just
go into this thing and it's just it's basically habit.
You always say when you're when you're creating roles for
people who are together habit, what if you can present
what looks like that habitual existence together, you'll be convincing.
We don't need to work hard at that at all.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So there's a joy in and ease of being able
to work together, especially on this particular play. You're also
co directing the film as well, along with your producer.
Can it get a little bit too much at times?
Speaker 4 (02:50):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Not not a film, a play?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, oh sorry, play sorry the play.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
It's not good, not at all, not at all. It's
actually it's quite like an open discussion, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yes, Yes, it's very collaborative. Brody who's our producer and
co director, he's our outside eye and he brings an
awful lot to the show.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Yeah, so it's just a we're good at we like
being directed, we like notes, yes, we like the craft of.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yes, the rigor of being in rehearsals it's fantastic. And look,
this company, this, this couple have something happened to them,
That is happening to New Zealanders and people all over
the world, and quite fitting because it's world alzheim as well,
of course as of today. Absolutely, and you know in
the play, my husband Michael well Arthur, he starts developing
(03:45):
these symptoms and it's given me. I mean, I don't
think I've talked to anybody or know anybody who hasn't
had somebody in their far no or friends circle or
loved one be touched, be touched by this. It's huge.
And also for the unpaid care I think that's really
and that's that's really what Jane becomes. Are loving and devoted,
(04:09):
but it's really hard work for somebody who is who
is the primary caregiver.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Have do either of you have any experience with Alzheim's
with family or friends?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Just a couple of older family members, yes, who have
been touched by that, and it's you know, not the serious,
serious stuff, but plenty of my friends have.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Yeah, I don't. My parents died, so they died before
any of that happened.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Does it make you think about aging?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And it does, you know, as Michael's character says in
the play, you know, God, it's just nothing, you know,
go to the shop and forget what you went there for.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Yeah, it's trivial, isn't it. You forget, you know. But
then if it stops being occasionally, it starts to becoming home.
And one of the ironies of the player courses we
have to remember some fiendishly difficult scenes where the dialogues
are dialogue is sort of juxtaposed, where we're hearing different things. Yes,
play about losing that very faculty.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Yes, we have to be so onto it. So that's good.
We're keeping our brains very very exercise Francisco.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
And there is also the fact that maybe the audience
doesn't pick up if there was.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
A well yeah, no, we can't afford really to slip
into that camera.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
No improvising required.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah. The players about love though, too, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
I wouldn't want people to think it was a downer
of a play. I mean, it certainly takes you to
a lot of plays, a lot of places, but in
the end it's so full of love and heart and music, you.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Know, yes, and the power of music to connect people
back to memory, and that the Matthew Seger, the playwright
who was very young when he wrote this and it
was it's only it's less than ten years old as play.
And he was working in a dementia unit as part
of his drama school studies and saw these people who
were in a really almost seemingly catatonic state, how they
(06:07):
responded to music from their from their youth, the words
you know. And so this keeps coming back all the
way through the power of music too, to bring people
back to connection.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Now, am I right that with the story, you're telling
the couple's story and it switches through periods in their life,
in their lives but in the past. Quite often when
they go back in time, younger actors play well.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
It hasn't been previous play, It hasn't been done in
New Zealand before they've used younger actors in fact, where
they were the first actual real the old. Its been
required for getting older.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
No, No, they're crazy though, because aren't you the perfect age?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And I and I do think it has gives it
a poignancy that you know, young young people have to
play old. We don't have to do that.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
We're more like old people having to play except that
you know, we've got a young energy because we're actors.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Actors.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
I mean they do plays. They used to be called players,
So there is a youthfulness that I mean that, the
childlike ability to say yes is a very big tool
for an actor. I was going to say that, Oh no,
it's gone out of matay.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
No, that's all right. It's like imitating art. It happens
to the best of us. Is there a project that
the two of you haven't done that you would love
to do together?
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Well, Christian, isn't that it's interesting? We don't look too
far to the future, Francesca, because this is already exciting
that's been picked up around the country. So we're going
to be touring, which is wonderful. I love going around
this country. I love going to the regions and great
waiter to see the country and be working with a
(08:02):
terrific play. So that's sort of as far ahead as
we go. I don't think, well, for us, we don't
really look further than about six months. Yeah, away would,
but it's never been any different. We never know what's
going to come up, So at the moment, we're doing
exactly what we love and I'm always thinking, I'm always
(08:23):
work with great people on great creative projects and that's happening,
So that means I'm fulfilled.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
You're both incredibly busy though, Yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Indeed, I'm still working on Spartacus, the television show here
as an intimacy coordinator, and a few things on television
at the moment that I've coordinated and have you.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
And I wanted to bring that up actually because you
worked on Madam, which is the fantastic TV three show
about the escorts who work for the Ethical brothel, and
do you know the actresses are just fantastic and they
clearly really enjoyed having fun in some of those scenes,
(09:00):
which I'm sure must have come down to some of
the work you did with them.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Well, it's a matter of making people feel really comfortable
when they're doing those of things that everybody knows where
they're going to be touched, how they're going to be touched.
You know what quality you've touched that is that they've
consented to it. Both actors have consented to it, that
they've got a good connection. And once you have that,
then they can do their work. Yeah, they can do
their acting because a whole lot of the other things
have been sorted out. So that's a very very satisfying work.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
For me, it's a boon for a director because I've
just been directing Spartacus as well, and of course there
are very intensely intimate scenes and that for me in
the past it would be I'd have to do the talking.
It's not that I bail on it or anything, but
having it wasn't Jennifer. It was Tandy Wright actually who
was doing it because they're sharing the job. So suddenly
it was all being talked about and a really constructive
(09:49):
and positive environment and within Oh, it was so quick
and suddenly we're doing this stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
It's very efficient. You know.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Does it take you back? Do you think back over
the years that you've done TV shows and things the
way thing caught.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
You the things?
Speaker 4 (10:02):
I mean, I remember doing a show and are they
doing a film called Bitch Slap And there was some
really awkward moments. I was playing a very sleazy character
and a g string and a little silk kimono and
having to have you know, young women lolling all over me. Well,
you just it was like, well, it's pretend, be grown up.
(10:23):
It's just pretend. And you know, if you're going to
kiss someone, keep your mouth closed and just pretend there
was no There was nothing else was there? There was
just no That was all you did.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
You just relied on the the good ethics of the
of the actors.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Which you know can be a little I mean not
for me, but I mean you know that's where the
problems arise, or directors who suddenly have a great idea
in the middle of shooting is, Hey, wouldn't it be
good if you could do this? And no one's prepared
for that? Like it's when you're vulnerable, physically vulnerable like that.
You it's not good to just add things in. It
(10:57):
doesn't it doesn't necessarily work. You might preframe something by saying, right,
we're going to improvise this, and if everybody's agreed and
it's all written on paper, than sure, but really, you know,
it's it's got to be sorted. A lot has changed,
Oh yeah, absolutely for the better from an acting perspective.
I've done that too. I played Len Brown and Something
(11:20):
recently and cho and we had to do well, of course,
for me, what you had to do this intimate scene.
And I found that my boundaries were more about feeling
safe in putting my hands on this other person. So
I didn't want to go too far, you know what
I mean. So when we all got to the point,
(11:41):
as Jennifer said, you get to the point where you agree,
then you can act the hell out of it. You
don't feel any you know, you don't feel any trepidation,
even thinking.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
You've got a kind of journey, physical journey anchored on
your body. And so I was the other person, and great,
you can get on and do it just like a stunt.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I love it. It's so good to have you in
Thank you, best of luck with the show heading into
theater rehearsals open.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
We're opening a couple of days. We're at a QUE
Theater and we're on till the fifteenth of September, so
open on Tuesday. Very exciting to be back at Q
because we're both patrons of Q Theater. So it'll be
a really great season.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Can't wait.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Thank you so much for being with us. The Player
is called in other words, and it has its Australasian
premiere at Auckland's Q Theater. As Jennifer said from September
the third.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to news Talks. It'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talk SEDB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Jennifer Wardley London Michael Hurst are surely our most legendary
theater couple, having met in nineteen eighty three through the theater.
Their careers and love story span over forty years. They've
appeared on stage together many times, we think maybe approximately
thirty plays, but their latest project is the first time
the two of them have carried a whole show on
(00:34):
their own. It is called in other Words, and incidentally,
the title of the play comes from Frank Sinatra's fly
Me to the Moon. Jennifer and Michael, good morning, Yeah,
really good to have you with us.
Speaker 3 (00:48):
Now.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
You didn't meet it awkand Theater Company because it hadn't
quite didn't quite exist then. It was just the corporate theater. Corporate,
that's right, small theatre.
Speaker 3 (00:56):
I'm sure some of your listeners will have been there
over the years, most in about nineteen eighty six, and
am I right? You have?
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Have you ever appeared in a play with just a
two of do you?
Speaker 3 (01:07):
Never have? No?
Speaker 4 (01:09):
We played married a Couple in the Goat at Silo
in nineteen two thousand and five, and you know, there
were four of us in the play, but it was
focused on us as a couple. But that's as close
as because I've.
Speaker 2 (01:21):
Seen you together in place a lot. But I did think,
gosh for all that time.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
And this one's quite a special one because this couple
is a long term married couple. So how much works
involved here? You know, apart from this slog of learning
lines and making sure we really, you know, get the
into the depths of this piece, there is an ease
and a just a knowing of each other that is
a real shortcut for us.
Speaker 2 (01:48):
Do you think that being a couple in real life
does lend some authenticity to to the story to this one?
Speaker 4 (01:53):
It done. Also, the scripts has a naturalistic level to it.
I mean we were doing lines at home, remember.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
That time is I did one of the lines for me.
Speaker 4 (02:03):
It was just so real. I suddenly started laughing because
I felt like we were at home. Yes, because she
was saying things like did you pay that bill at
the bank? What did you pay it? I think so,
And you're just going, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
This is so real, is it you? Or if you
just said this is what it was?
Speaker 4 (02:17):
Yeah, I couldn't stop laughing and then and it's like that.
I know it works in rehearsal sometimes where we just
go into this thing and it's just it's basically habit.
You always say when you're when you're creating roles for
people who are together habit, what if you can present
what looks like that habitual existence together, you'll be convincing.
We don't need to work hard at that at all.
Speaker 2 (02:40):
So there's a joy in and ease of being able
to work together, especially on this particular play. You're also
co directing the film as well, along with your producer.
Can it get a little bit too much at times?
Speaker 4 (02:50):
No?
Speaker 3 (02:51):
Not not a film, a play?
Speaker 2 (02:52):
Yeah, oh sorry, play sorry the play.
Speaker 4 (02:57):
It's not good, not at all, not at all. It's
actually it's quite like an open discussion, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (03:03):
Yes, Yes, it's very collaborative. Brody who's our producer and
co director, he's our outside eye and he brings an
awful lot to the show.
Speaker 4 (03:13):
Yeah, so it's just a we're good at we like
being directed, we like notes, yes, we like the craft of.
Speaker 3 (03:19):
Yes, the rigor of being in rehearsals it's fantastic. And look,
this company, this, this couple have something happened to them,
That is happening to New Zealanders and people all over
the world, and quite fitting because it's world alzheim as well,
of course as of today. Absolutely, and you know in
the play, my husband Michael well Arthur, he starts developing
(03:45):
these symptoms and it's given me. I mean, I don't
think I've talked to anybody or know anybody who hasn't
had somebody in their far no or friends circle or
loved one be touched, be touched by this. It's huge.
And also for the unpaid care I think that's really
and that's that's really what Jane becomes. Are loving and devoted,
(04:09):
but it's really hard work for somebody who is who
is the primary caregiver.
Speaker 2 (04:16):
Have do either of you have any experience with Alzheim's
with family or friends?
Speaker 3 (04:20):
Just a couple of older family members, yes, who have
been touched by that, and it's you know, not the serious,
serious stuff, but plenty of my friends have.
Speaker 4 (04:32):
Yeah, I don't. My parents died, so they died before
any of that happened.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Does it make you think about aging?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
And it does, you know, as Michael's character says in
the play, you know, God, it's just nothing, you know,
go to the shop and forget what you went there for.
Speaker 4 (04:50):
Yeah, it's trivial, isn't it. You forget, you know. But
then if it stops being occasionally, it starts to becoming home.
And one of the ironies of the player courses we
have to remember some fiendishly difficult scenes where the dialogues
are dialogue is sort of juxtaposed, where we're hearing different things. Yes,
play about losing that very faculty.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Yes, we have to be so onto it. So that's good.
We're keeping our brains very very exercise Francisco.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
And there is also the fact that maybe the audience
doesn't pick up if there was.
Speaker 4 (05:18):
A well yeah, no, we can't afford really to slip
into that camera.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
No improvising required.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
Yeah. The players about love though, too, isn't it.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
Yes, it is.
Speaker 4 (05:34):
I wouldn't want people to think it was a downer
of a play. I mean, it certainly takes you to
a lot of plays, a lot of places, but in
the end it's so full of love and heart and music, you.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Know, yes, and the power of music to connect people
back to memory, and that the Matthew Seger, the playwright
who was very young when he wrote this and it
was it's only it's less than ten years old as play.
And he was working in a dementia unit as part
of his drama school studies and saw these people who
were in a really almost seemingly catatonic state, how they
(06:07):
responded to music from their from their youth, the words
you know. And so this keeps coming back all the
way through the power of music too, to bring people
back to connection.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Now, am I right that with the story, you're telling
the couple's story and it switches through periods in their life,
in their lives but in the past. Quite often when
they go back in time, younger actors play well.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
It hasn't been previous play, It hasn't been done in
New Zealand before they've used younger actors in fact, where
they were the first actual real the old. Its been
required for getting older.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
No, No, they're crazy though, because aren't you the perfect age?
Speaker 3 (06:59):
And I and I do think it has gives it
a poignancy that you know, young young people have to
play old. We don't have to do that.
Speaker 4 (07:09):
We're more like old people having to play except that
you know, we've got a young energy because we're actors.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Actors.
Speaker 4 (07:15):
I mean they do plays. They used to be called players,
So there is a youthfulness that I mean that, the
childlike ability to say yes is a very big tool
for an actor. I was going to say that, Oh no,
it's gone out of matay.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
No, that's all right. It's like imitating art. It happens
to the best of us. Is there a project that
the two of you haven't done that you would love
to do together?
Speaker 1 (07:41):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Well, Christian, isn't that it's interesting? We don't look too
far to the future, Francesca, because this is already exciting
that's been picked up around the country. So we're going
to be touring, which is wonderful. I love going around
this country. I love going to the regions and great
waiter to see the country and be working with a
(08:02):
terrific play. So that's sort of as far ahead as
we go. I don't think, well, for us, we don't
really look further than about six months. Yeah, away would,
but it's never been any different. We never know what's
going to come up, So at the moment, we're doing
exactly what we love and I'm always thinking, I'm always
(08:23):
work with great people on great creative projects and that's happening,
So that means I'm fulfilled.
Speaker 2 (08:28):
You're both incredibly busy though, Yes, yes.
Speaker 3 (08:30):
Indeed, I'm still working on Spartacus, the television show here
as an intimacy coordinator, and a few things on television
at the moment that I've coordinated and have you.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
And I wanted to bring that up actually because you
worked on Madam, which is the fantastic TV three show
about the escorts who work for the Ethical brothel, and
do you know the actresses are just fantastic and they
clearly really enjoyed having fun in some of those scenes,
(09:00):
which I'm sure must have come down to some of
the work you did with them.
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Well, it's a matter of making people feel really comfortable
when they're doing those of things that everybody knows where
they're going to be touched, how they're going to be touched.
You know what quality you've touched that is that they've
consented to it. Both actors have consented to it, that
they've got a good connection. And once you have that,
then they can do their work. Yeah, they can do
their acting because a whole lot of the other things
have been sorted out. So that's a very very satisfying work.
Speaker 4 (09:25):
For me, it's a boon for a director because I've
just been directing Spartacus as well, and of course there
are very intensely intimate scenes and that for me in
the past it would be I'd have to do the talking.
It's not that I bail on it or anything, but
having it wasn't Jennifer. It was Tandy Wright actually who
was doing it because they're sharing the job. So suddenly
it was all being talked about and a really constructive
(09:49):
and positive environment and within Oh, it was so quick
and suddenly we're doing this stuff.
Speaker 3 (09:55):
It's very efficient. You know.
Speaker 2 (09:57):
Does it take you back? Do you think back over
the years that you've done TV shows and things the
way thing caught.
Speaker 3 (10:01):
You the things?
Speaker 4 (10:02):
I mean, I remember doing a show and are they
doing a film called Bitch Slap And there was some
really awkward moments. I was playing a very sleazy character
and a g string and a little silk kimono and
having to have you know, young women lolling all over me. Well,
you just it was like, well, it's pretend, be grown up.
(10:23):
It's just pretend. And you know, if you're going to
kiss someone, keep your mouth closed and just pretend there
was no There was nothing else was there? There was
just no That was all you did.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
You just relied on the the good ethics of the
of the actors.
Speaker 4 (10:36):
Which you know can be a little I mean not
for me, but I mean you know that's where the
problems arise, or directors who suddenly have a great idea
in the middle of shooting is, Hey, wouldn't it be
good if you could do this? And no one's prepared
for that? Like it's when you're vulnerable, physically vulnerable like that.
You it's not good to just add things in. It
(10:57):
doesn't it doesn't necessarily work. You might preframe something by saying, right,
we're going to improvise this, and if everybody's agreed and
it's all written on paper, than sure, but really, you know,
it's it's got to be sorted. A lot has changed,
Oh yeah, absolutely for the better from an acting perspective.
I've done that too. I played Len Brown and Something
(11:20):
recently and cho and we had to do well, of course,
for me, what you had to do this intimate scene.
And I found that my boundaries were more about feeling
safe in putting my hands on this other person. So
I didn't want to go too far, you know what
I mean. So when we all got to the point,
(11:41):
as Jennifer said, you get to the point where you agree,
then you can act the hell out of it. You
don't feel any you know, you don't feel any trepidation,
even thinking.
Speaker 3 (11:53):
You've got a kind of journey, physical journey anchored on
your body. And so I was the other person, and great,
you can get on and do it just like a stunt.
Speaker 2 (12:01):
I love it. It's so good to have you in
Thank you, best of luck with the show heading into
theater rehearsals open.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
We're opening a couple of days. We're at a QUE
Theater and we're on till the fifteenth of September, so
open on Tuesday. Very exciting to be back at Q
because we're both patrons of Q Theater. So it'll be
a really great season.
Speaker 4 (12:21):
Can't wait.
Speaker 2 (12:22):
Thank you so much for being with us. The Player
is called in other words, and it has its Australasian
premiere at Auckland's Q Theater. As Jennifer said from September
the third.
Speaker 1 (12:33):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to news Talks. It'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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