September 14, 2024 • 8 mins
ACT's controversial Treaty Principles Bill has continued to spark debate and discussion.
A Cabinet paper has unveiled the proposed principles of Civil Government, iwi and hapu rights - and the right to equality.
NZ Herald political reporter Adam Pearse says it's unclear if the bill has a future.
LISTEN ABOVE
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News TALKSB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
New Zealand Herald. Political reporter Adam Pearce is with us now.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Good morning, Adam, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Cabinet has agreed to the next steps for the Treaty
Principal's Bill this week. How well has that been received?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Not very well, to be honest. It's been a topic
that we've been talking about pretty much every day or
last week, which just shows how topical the issue is
and how people feel about it. The main change really
was to the second Principle, which included mention of the
rights of Awe and Hupper at the time the treaty
was signed, and if there was any I suppose hope
(00:47):
that it would it would tamp down I suppose the
tension around the debate. It didn't really work. I mean,
we had Hobson's Pledge, who have been a big supporter
of the Treaty Principal's Bill, come out and say that
this is a terrible revision and they're encouraging their supporters
to make as many submissions once again to committee process.
And then on the other side of it, it hasn't
(01:09):
a peace to party marti or members of the martyr
communities and marty organizations from what we've seen, so it's
certainly posing a device of six months of Select committee
when this bill doesn't need go to Select committee. And
it's just that it's an interesting dynamic and I think
that's what people find most interesting about it, is that
we've got a bill that doesn't seem to have a future,
(01:31):
and yet David Seymour insists that the Prime Minister will
will change his mind on it, which Christopher Luxeon doesn't
seem too happy about.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Do we go to getting a headline, isn't he David Seymour.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Well, it's the thing that the net results is a
whole lot of coverage for David Seymour and arguably more
more than Christopher lux and the Prime Minister. I mean,
I can imagine there'll be a few people out there,
you know, thinking who actually holds the power of this thing,
you know, a party that only got eight point six
percent in the election or the party of the Prime
Minister Adam.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
This week we've gotten or an order in the House
at the forefront gang patch and the gun legislation. Is
that what's going through this week.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah, the gang patch ban and the well, the Gang's legislation,
the package as a whole will be one of the
major ones. I mean, the government has a tendency to
like doing things and themes. So that's the law and
all the week. So you'll hear a lot more from
the likes of Police Minister Mark Mitchell and just Minister
Paul Goldsmith. Yeah, as I say, the gang legislation will
be a big one going through its third reading. Think
(02:36):
the gang patch ban, non consulting orders dispersal notice is
basically trying to stop gang members talking with each other,
showing what they're showing off, what they wear and talking
with each other. So there were quite a bit of
focus on a clause that was added after the select
committee process. We go the gang patch ban, we're effectively
making an offense to have a gang patch inside your
(02:58):
home if you as you've been found guilty of that
offense three years, three times in the past five years.
And yeah, there's a lot of a lot of criticism
from the other side of the aisle around adding it's
without consultation after the Selectamy process, and it raises a
whole lot of issues, right, you know, like if it's
(03:19):
a gang patch that's not yours, it's in your home.
And then there's also concerns about the power that affords
police to come and look inside the home, which I
think is as a right that a lot of people
take seriously. What you do in your own home is
your business. So expect that to take a lot of
focus as the bill gets the base of the House.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Why did they add that, Adam, Was it purely for
that factor that they would that would would extend their search.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Pals Well, I think if you hear from if you
listen to the likes of Paul Goldsmith's Justice Minister, his
intention with that little peak, that extra pause was basically
to punish those who repeated, repeatedly flouted So clearly they're
concerned that there will be gang members out there who
will be quite happy to pay a fine or have
(04:08):
a stint in jail if that's the conviction when they
have their gang patch out in public, And basically they're
wanting to thinking that they're getting ahead of the problem
of gang members who will just keep doing it and
keep doing it and keep doing it, and they're hoping
that this clause will give them enough pause for thought
to be able to say, actually, no, let's stop this,
(04:29):
otherwise we're going to have police coming in through our
door every other day.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I'm not sure i'd want to be a police officer
in forcing this law.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Well, exactly. And this is the key thing that I
think a lot of people are looking forward to see
how it's inforced. Well, they're interested, you know, how it's
going to be done, you know, because I think there
will be a lot of people in the public when
when this law has passed and when it becomes something
that the police can act on, they'll see gang members
walking around around their communities and they'll see a police officer.
(04:58):
They'll see the police officers see the gang members and think, right, well,
we have this new power. It's up to you police.
Why aren't you going and taking that patch up them?
And it's you know, the ministers are quite clear that
it's going to be the enforcement is going to depend
on the situation, right, depend on whether it's safe, because
obviously they've got risk assessments there. But I think there's
(05:19):
going to be a few issues there where the public expectation,
given the rhetoric out of this government around cracking down
on game members and making life uncomfortable if they see
gang members swanning about in their patches and the police
doing nothing about it. That's going to cause a real headache.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Forty Yeah, No, it is, isn't it. There was a
small change as well to the Arms Act. I think
it was about reporting obligations for gun clubs that didn't
also go through Slick Committee. Is that is that an issue?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah? Well, I mean the Arms Act and the reform
there is really a hot topic obviously after after the
terror attacks in christ Church and the changes that were made.
I mean our gun law reform in those you know
back then under Prime Minister Cinder Ardoern were lauded as
world leading, and now we have Nicole McKee as an
(06:08):
act Minister who is also a former gun lobbyist looking
to change those and I think there's a natural concern there,
I think just from a perception point of view, and
that's something that labor in particular have hopped on and
look to really focus on this week. There's a lot
of a lot of water to go under that bridge,
but I think it's certainly something that's going to deserve
(06:31):
a lot of a lot of focus and I expect
you'll see that this week as well.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And finally, Adam, I believe we're expecting an announcement today
at some point.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yes, yes, it's be in Auckland today and it will
kind of kick off the law in order to focus
for the week. From what it sounds like, it looks
like it's going to be looking at anti social behavior,
how we go about tamping that down. You know, I'm
sure a lot of your listeners, particularly in Auckland, will
know this kind of behavior that I'm referencing, and from
(07:02):
what it sounds like, it's police and the Ministry of
Social Development. He'll be looking to do a bit of
work to address the people on the streets who are
displaying this kind of behavior. And I'm sure there'll be
a lot of a lot of focus on whether there's
mental health and addiction services involved in that process. I know,
you listen know that those mental health and addiction problems
(07:25):
inform a lot of that behavior. So hopefully that's something
that they've thought of in terms of addressing that problem.
But you know, Luxan are we talking about it today?
Well also be talking about his kind of involvement with
police on the front line, and it's an issue that
he's really comfortable talking about you know, he does the
classic apology reversal where he says, sorry, but I'm not
going to apologize for cracking down on crime. That is
(07:48):
a classic one of his. But he does feel very
comfortable talking about it because I think it's a very
very good issue for his base, and I think he's
got a lot of latitude given you know, what the
public feeling on crime is at the moment. So expect
there's some pretty strong language out of him this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I just feel like after this week's going to be
a lot more calls to one oh five.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Adam, You're probably not wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Thanks so much for updating us on the week and
the week ahead as well. That was New Zealand Hell
political reporter Adam Pearce.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News TALKSB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
New Zealand Herald. Political reporter Adam Pearce is with us now.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Good morning, Adam, Good morning.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
Cabinet has agreed to the next steps for the Treaty
Principal's Bill this week. How well has that been received?
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Not very well, to be honest. It's been a topic
that we've been talking about pretty much every day or
last week, which just shows how topical the issue is
and how people feel about it. The main change really
was to the second Principle, which included mention of the
rights of Awe and Hupper at the time the treaty
was signed, and if there was any I suppose hope
(00:47):
that it would it would tamp down I suppose the
tension around the debate. It didn't really work. I mean,
we had Hobson's Pledge, who have been a big supporter
of the Treaty Principal's Bill, come out and say that
this is a terrible revision and they're encouraging their supporters
to make as many submissions once again to committee process.
And then on the other side of it, it hasn't
(01:09):
a peace to party marti or members of the martyr
communities and marty organizations from what we've seen, so it's
certainly posing a device of six months of Select committee
when this bill doesn't need go to Select committee. And
it's just that it's an interesting dynamic and I think
that's what people find most interesting about it, is that
we've got a bill that doesn't seem to have a future,
(01:31):
and yet David Seymour insists that the Prime Minister will
will change his mind on it, which Christopher Luxeon doesn't
seem too happy about.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
Do we go to getting a headline, isn't he David Seymour.
Speaker 3 (01:43):
Well, it's the thing that the net results is a
whole lot of coverage for David Seymour and arguably more
more than Christopher lux and the Prime Minister. I mean,
I can imagine there'll be a few people out there,
you know, thinking who actually holds the power of this thing,
you know, a party that only got eight point six
percent in the election or the party of the Prime
Minister Adam.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
This week we've gotten or an order in the House
at the forefront gang patch and the gun legislation. Is
that what's going through this week.
Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah, the gang patch ban and the well, the Gang's legislation,
the package as a whole will be one of the
major ones. I mean, the government has a tendency to
like doing things and themes. So that's the law and
all the week. So you'll hear a lot more from
the likes of Police Minister Mark Mitchell and just Minister
Paul Goldsmith. Yeah, as I say, the gang legislation will
be a big one going through its third reading. Think
(02:36):
the gang patch ban, non consulting orders dispersal notice is
basically trying to stop gang members talking with each other,
showing what they're showing off, what they wear and talking
with each other. So there were quite a bit of
focus on a clause that was added after the select
committee process. We go the gang patch ban, we're effectively
making an offense to have a gang patch inside your
(02:58):
home if you as you've been found guilty of that
offense three years, three times in the past five years.
And yeah, there's a lot of a lot of criticism
from the other side of the aisle around adding it's
without consultation after the Selectamy process, and it raises a
whole lot of issues, right, you know, like if it's
(03:19):
a gang patch that's not yours, it's in your home.
And then there's also concerns about the power that affords
police to come and look inside the home, which I
think is as a right that a lot of people
take seriously. What you do in your own home is
your business. So expect that to take a lot of
focus as the bill gets the base of the House.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Why did they add that, Adam, Was it purely for
that factor that they would that would would extend their search.
Speaker 3 (03:46):
Pals Well, I think if you hear from if you
listen to the likes of Paul Goldsmith's Justice Minister, his
intention with that little peak, that extra pause was basically
to punish those who repeated, repeatedly flouted So clearly they're
concerned that there will be gang members out there who
will be quite happy to pay a fine or have
(04:08):
a stint in jail if that's the conviction when they
have their gang patch out in public, And basically they're
wanting to thinking that they're getting ahead of the problem
of gang members who will just keep doing it and
keep doing it and keep doing it, and they're hoping
that this clause will give them enough pause for thought
to be able to say, actually, no, let's stop this,
(04:29):
otherwise we're going to have police coming in through our
door every other day.
Speaker 2 (04:32):
I'm not sure i'd want to be a police officer
in forcing this law.
Speaker 3 (04:36):
Well, exactly. And this is the key thing that I
think a lot of people are looking forward to see
how it's inforced. Well, they're interested, you know, how it's
going to be done, you know, because I think there
will be a lot of people in the public when
when this law has passed and when it becomes something
that the police can act on, they'll see gang members
walking around around their communities and they'll see a police officer.
(04:58):
They'll see the police officers see the gang members and think, right, well,
we have this new power. It's up to you police.
Why aren't you going and taking that patch up them?
And it's you know, the ministers are quite clear that
it's going to be the enforcement is going to depend
on the situation, right, depend on whether it's safe, because
obviously they've got risk assessments there. But I think there's
(05:19):
going to be a few issues there where the public expectation,
given the rhetoric out of this government around cracking down
on game members and making life uncomfortable if they see
gang members swanning about in their patches and the police
doing nothing about it. That's going to cause a real headache.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
Forty Yeah, No, it is, isn't it. There was a
small change as well to the Arms Act. I think
it was about reporting obligations for gun clubs that didn't
also go through Slick Committee. Is that is that an issue?
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Yeah? Well, I mean the Arms Act and the reform
there is really a hot topic obviously after after the
terror attacks in christ Church and the changes that were made.
I mean our gun law reform in those you know
back then under Prime Minister Cinder Ardoern were lauded as
world leading, and now we have Nicole McKee as an
(06:08):
act Minister who is also a former gun lobbyist looking
to change those and I think there's a natural concern there,
I think just from a perception point of view, and
that's something that labor in particular have hopped on and
look to really focus on this week. There's a lot
of a lot of water to go under that bridge,
but I think it's certainly something that's going to deserve
(06:31):
a lot of a lot of focus and I expect
you'll see that this week as well.
Speaker 2 (06:35):
And finally, Adam, I believe we're expecting an announcement today
at some point.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
Yes, yes, it's be in Auckland today and it will
kind of kick off the law in order to focus
for the week. From what it sounds like, it looks
like it's going to be looking at anti social behavior,
how we go about tamping that down. You know, I'm
sure a lot of your listeners, particularly in Auckland, will
know this kind of behavior that I'm referencing, and from
(07:02):
what it sounds like, it's police and the Ministry of
Social Development. He'll be looking to do a bit of
work to address the people on the streets who are
displaying this kind of behavior. And I'm sure there'll be
a lot of a lot of focus on whether there's
mental health and addiction services involved in that process. I know,
you listen know that those mental health and addiction problems
(07:25):
inform a lot of that behavior. So hopefully that's something
that they've thought of in terms of addressing that problem.
But you know, Luxan are we talking about it today?
Well also be talking about his kind of involvement with
police on the front line, and it's an issue that
he's really comfortable talking about you know, he does the
classic apology reversal where he says, sorry, but I'm not
going to apologize for cracking down on crime. That is
(07:48):
a classic one of his. But he does feel very
comfortable talking about it because I think it's a very
very good issue for his base, and I think he's
got a lot of latitude given you know, what the
public feeling on crime is at the moment. So expect
there's some pretty strong language out of him this afternoon.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
I just feel like after this week's going to be
a lot more calls to one oh five.
Speaker 3 (08:07):
Adam, You're probably not wrong.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
Thanks so much for updating us on the week and
the week ahead as well. That was New Zealand Hell
political reporter Adam Pearce.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
Popular Podcasts
United States of Kennedy
United States of Kennedy is a podcast about our cultural fascination with the Kennedy dynasty. Every week, hosts Lyra Smith and George Civeris go into one aspect of the Kennedy story.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com