November 30, 2024 • 7 mins
The Labour Party is focused on winning back New Zealanders.
It's holding its annual conference in Christchurch this weekend - the first time its members have met since the 2023 election defeat.
Leader Chris Hipkins has told the party it must change if it wants to re-gain the trust it's lost.
Former Labour leader David Cunliffe says it's the right message after a historic loss in confidence.
He says they need to learn lessons from why support dropped 25 percent between 2020 and 2023.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News talksb.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Chrishipkins is calling for change from the Labor Party as
he sets his sights on the twenty twenty sixth election.
Speaking at the party's annual conference in christ Your, Tipkins
told members they need to rebuild the trust Labor lost
under the last government and that the party needs to change,
so can they deliver the change needed to discuss. Former
Labor leader David Cunliffe is with me now. Thanks so
(00:34):
much for your time, David, good.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Morning, good morning. It's a pleasure to join your franchise.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hipkins is right here. They do need to change to
win back the trust they've lost.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Do you think yes, absolutely, it's absolutely the right message
for the party to hear, sad let for many. They
had a historic loss of confidence between twenty twenty and
twenty twenty three, drop twenty five percent of support. That's
a lot and it needs to understand why and what
it can do to get that back. It's an appropriate
(01:05):
challenge for a leader at this time of the cycle
to say to the party you can't be comfortable if
you want to be in government. You've got to redesign
and Facebook lure.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Where would you start, David, Where does the focus need
to be.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Complimently, A party has to be energiet and united internally,
and it's got to, if you like, meet the needs
of the market, of the customer citizen externally. It has
to do both of those things, and doing both of
them will take some time. The way I think to
pull that together is to find a new unifying vision
(01:41):
that cuts through to middle New Zealand, that is addressing
the issues that are keeping mums and dads up at
night and keeping people worried. We live in a rapidly
changing world. There's a lot of stuff going on. There's
a hell of a lot to address, and I think
keywis are worried about New Zealand. Is New Zealand, you know,
kind of coming apart. So finding a vision that will
(02:02):
unify New Zealand and being able to deliver on other keys.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
It is hard to keep that balance is when it
comes to where they position themselves, you know, further center,
further left. How far do you go to appeal to
voters without losing the essence of who labor is?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah? Absolutely, And look I don't think it's a one
size fits all and it's not frozen in time. And
part of the way through that choice is to look
at what are the issues that are coming at us,
and how is labor going to be meaningful to the
elector and addressing the issues of tomorrow and of twenty
(02:38):
twenty six and twenty twenty nine and books of stuff
that we know is happening. The world is getting a
difficult and dangerous place. We already know that the proposed
tariffs coming out of the Trump administration the US are
going to affect us. The Reserve banks told us that
this week, and it's in markets are pricing it in
interest rates. That's going to affect everybody's mortgages despite the
(03:02):
ocr cuts. We know that climate change is affecting us
because it's already showing up in our insurance bills. And
God help us, the world look in a pretty dicey
place geostrategically. We're going to have to think our way
through that very very carefully.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Indeed, you're painting a really rosy picture here on a
Sunday morning, David.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, I know it's being government, right, is it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
We saw a vote to take work forward on either
a capital gains tags or a wealth tags.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Is this a good move, Francesca. Look, one of the
things is that we don't most New Zealanders don't want
us to be a society of haves and have nots.
I still think that there's a broad majority of centrist
keys on both sides of the line who want us
to be a harmonious society. And you can't do that
(03:54):
if ninety of the wealth is in the hands of
five percent of the people. So there has to be
some way through the tax system and more generally, to
balance that out of it. Nowund the world, every other
country in the development world, I think, except for Mexico,
uses a capital gains tax as part of evening the
playing field up, and New Zealand is an outlier and
(04:18):
not doing that. I've said before, I think it's a
no brainer for New Zealand, and it's a no brainer
for the labor party. Wealth tax is much more difficult
and maybe theoretically desirable in some ways, but in a small,
open economy, you run the risk of capital leaking out
of your economy at a time that you can least
afford it. So my personal view and I think this
(04:38):
is what will probably come out of the washing and
the Labor Party is that a capital gains tax is
the way to go for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
David Chris Hopkins is also hinted at MP retirements. Is
a change in personnel necessary? I mean we could be
blunt about it and say is it time for a
bit of a cleanout.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Look, there'll be a natural process. Is that I'm not
going to take a position on individuals here because I'm
frankly not close enough to it, but I think that
there will be a number of people who've been there
for a while who will make their own judgments about
whether they're likely to be in government or in cabinet,
and they'll make life decisions for themselves that will naturally
(05:15):
create vacancies that will pull through new people. It is
absolutely essential that Labor shows that it's got a talent
pull that will be good governors and the future cabinet.
That's absolutely critical because as we just said, the job
is getting harder, not easier, and it needs talent that
also for you know, looking at the last election results
(05:37):
means Auckland's got to be pulled up in the limelight
for the Labor Party. I would say that wouldn't die
as a former Auckland MP but later got a drubbing
in Auckland, and it needs to show that Auckland is
a priority for it, and that's going to be a
bad internal representation as well as frequent visits by senior leadership.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Would the party also be considering coalition relationships at this point?
Do they just I mean, obviously they're very focused on
Labor and where they're heading and what they stand for,
but do you actually have to kind of think about
those keeping those relationships alive as well at this point.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Yeah. Look, the way he's in politics as shaken down
is the current government's got two minor parties now to
its right, and Labor would have two minor parties to
its left, and Labor and National, in their own ways,
both have to provide the unifying, balancing strategy that pulls
their side of the house together and Labour's going to
have to do that for twenty twenty six. I think
(06:35):
Labour's mission is to unify New Zealand, and that and
some extent is going to be about unifying the parties
of the left behind a future coalition government. They'll have
their own interests, they'll have their own campaign strategies. I
think Labor does have to appeal to the middle as
well as the left.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Can Chris Hipkins do that? Should he be leading Labor
into the next.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Election, that is a matter for the party. My view
is he will probably get a second chance, but no
leader gets a third chance. If that's true that logic,
then Chris has nothing to lose Bagling. This is absolute
best shot, David.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
While I've got you. Coming up this week, the legislation
around four year political terms will be introduced. Where do
you sit on this is through? I know it's because
it's a really tricky one.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
The first it was one of the first Private members
bills I tried to get up was for a four
years term. Look, I think it's again a no brainer.
A very few developed economies now have three year terms.
In one year, it's oh no.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
We seem to be losing, David, just as I really
wanted to hear this answer, you.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Were three term governments and we'll get more done.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Thank you so much, David, nice to talk to you.
I appreciate your time this morning. That was former Labor
leader David Canlith For.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
More from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin. Listen live
to news talks it'd be from nine am Sunday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News talksb.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Chrishipkins is calling for change from the Labor Party as
he sets his sights on the twenty twenty sixth election.
Speaking at the party's annual conference in christ Your, Tipkins
told members they need to rebuild the trust Labor lost
under the last government and that the party needs to change,
so can they deliver the change needed to discuss. Former
Labor leader David Cunliffe is with me now. Thanks so
(00:34):
much for your time, David, good.
Speaker 3 (00:35):
Morning, good morning. It's a pleasure to join your franchise.
Speaker 2 (00:39):
Hipkins is right here. They do need to change to
win back the trust they've lost.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Do you think yes, absolutely, it's absolutely the right message
for the party to hear, sad let for many. They
had a historic loss of confidence between twenty twenty and
twenty twenty three, drop twenty five percent of support. That's
a lot and it needs to understand why and what
it can do to get that back. It's an appropriate
(01:05):
challenge for a leader at this time of the cycle
to say to the party you can't be comfortable if
you want to be in government. You've got to redesign
and Facebook lure.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
Where would you start, David, Where does the focus need
to be.
Speaker 3 (01:20):
Complimently, A party has to be energiet and united internally,
and it's got to, if you like, meet the needs
of the market, of the customer citizen externally. It has
to do both of those things, and doing both of
them will take some time. The way I think to
pull that together is to find a new unifying vision
(01:41):
that cuts through to middle New Zealand, that is addressing
the issues that are keeping mums and dads up at
night and keeping people worried. We live in a rapidly
changing world. There's a lot of stuff going on. There's
a hell of a lot to address, and I think
keywis are worried about New Zealand. Is New Zealand, you know,
kind of coming apart. So finding a vision that will
(02:02):
unify New Zealand and being able to deliver on other keys.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
It is hard to keep that balance is when it
comes to where they position themselves, you know, further center,
further left. How far do you go to appeal to
voters without losing the essence of who labor is?
Speaker 3 (02:17):
Yeah? Absolutely, And look I don't think it's a one
size fits all and it's not frozen in time. And
part of the way through that choice is to look
at what are the issues that are coming at us,
and how is labor going to be meaningful to the
elector and addressing the issues of tomorrow and of twenty
(02:38):
twenty six and twenty twenty nine and books of stuff
that we know is happening. The world is getting a
difficult and dangerous place. We already know that the proposed
tariffs coming out of the Trump administration the US are
going to affect us. The Reserve banks told us that
this week, and it's in markets are pricing it in
interest rates. That's going to affect everybody's mortgages despite the
(03:02):
ocr cuts. We know that climate change is affecting us
because it's already showing up in our insurance bills. And
God help us, the world look in a pretty dicey
place geostrategically. We're going to have to think our way
through that very very carefully.
Speaker 2 (03:17):
Indeed, you're painting a really rosy picture here on a
Sunday morning, David.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Yeah, I know it's being government, right, is it.
Speaker 2 (03:26):
We saw a vote to take work forward on either
a capital gains tags or a wealth tags.
Speaker 3 (03:32):
Is this a good move, Francesca. Look, one of the
things is that we don't most New Zealanders don't want
us to be a society of haves and have nots.
I still think that there's a broad majority of centrist
keys on both sides of the line who want us
to be a harmonious society. And you can't do that
(03:54):
if ninety of the wealth is in the hands of
five percent of the people. So there has to be
some way through the tax system and more generally, to
balance that out of it. Nowund the world, every other
country in the development world, I think, except for Mexico,
uses a capital gains tax as part of evening the
playing field up, and New Zealand is an outlier and
(04:18):
not doing that. I've said before, I think it's a
no brainer for New Zealand, and it's a no brainer
for the labor party. Wealth tax is much more difficult
and maybe theoretically desirable in some ways, but in a small,
open economy, you run the risk of capital leaking out
of your economy at a time that you can least
afford it. So my personal view and I think this
(04:38):
is what will probably come out of the washing and
the Labor Party is that a capital gains tax is
the way to go for twenty twenty six.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
David Chris Hopkins is also hinted at MP retirements. Is
a change in personnel necessary? I mean we could be
blunt about it and say is it time for a
bit of a cleanout.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
Look, there'll be a natural process. Is that I'm not
going to take a position on individuals here because I'm
frankly not close enough to it, but I think that
there will be a number of people who've been there
for a while who will make their own judgments about
whether they're likely to be in government or in cabinet,
and they'll make life decisions for themselves that will naturally
(05:15):
create vacancies that will pull through new people. It is
absolutely essential that Labor shows that it's got a talent
pull that will be good governors and the future cabinet.
That's absolutely critical because as we just said, the job
is getting harder, not easier, and it needs talent that
also for you know, looking at the last election results
(05:37):
means Auckland's got to be pulled up in the limelight
for the Labor Party. I would say that wouldn't die
as a former Auckland MP but later got a drubbing
in Auckland, and it needs to show that Auckland is
a priority for it, and that's going to be a
bad internal representation as well as frequent visits by senior leadership.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
Would the party also be considering coalition relationships at this point?
Do they just I mean, obviously they're very focused on
Labor and where they're heading and what they stand for,
but do you actually have to kind of think about
those keeping those relationships alive as well at this point.
Speaker 3 (06:13):
Yeah. Look, the way he's in politics as shaken down
is the current government's got two minor parties now to
its right, and Labor would have two minor parties to
its left, and Labor and National, in their own ways,
both have to provide the unifying, balancing strategy that pulls
their side of the house together and Labour's going to
have to do that for twenty twenty six. I think
(06:35):
Labour's mission is to unify New Zealand, and that and
some extent is going to be about unifying the parties
of the left behind a future coalition government. They'll have
their own interests, they'll have their own campaign strategies. I
think Labor does have to appeal to the middle as
well as the left.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Can Chris Hipkins do that? Should he be leading Labor
into the next.
Speaker 3 (06:56):
Election, that is a matter for the party. My view
is he will probably get a second chance, but no
leader gets a third chance. If that's true that logic,
then Chris has nothing to lose Bagling. This is absolute
best shot, David.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
While I've got you. Coming up this week, the legislation
around four year political terms will be introduced. Where do
you sit on this is through? I know it's because
it's a really tricky one.
Speaker 3 (07:25):
The first it was one of the first Private members
bills I tried to get up was for a four
years term. Look, I think it's again a no brainer.
A very few developed economies now have three year terms.
In one year, it's oh no.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
We seem to be losing, David, just as I really
wanted to hear this answer, you.
Speaker 3 (07:45):
Were three term governments and we'll get more done.
Speaker 2 (07:49):
Thank you so much, David, nice to talk to you.
I appreciate your time this morning. That was former Labor
leader David Canlith For.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
More from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin. Listen live
to news talks it'd be from nine am Sunday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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