April 12, 2025 • 7 mins
182 RSA clubs recently voted to decide the future of the 108-year-old organisation.
A new constitution has been approved for the RSA - aimed at modernising and centralising power.
Dozens of clubs have since threatened to leave if the constitution is passed, with the worry that the change would undermine the fundamental grassroots foundations.
RSA chair Rhys Jones says this vote has sparked plenty of division within the organisation.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News talks'b Right.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It has been a big week for the Royal New
Zealand RSA. The government is set to introduce legislation that
will formally recognize more former defense personnel as veterans. It's
expected around one hundred thousand people will be included, and
just yesterday, one hundred and eighty two RSA clubs voted
to decide the future of one hundred and eight year
old organization. A new constitution has been approved for the RSA,
(00:36):
aimed at modernizing and centralizing power, but dozens of clubs
threatened to leave if the constitution is passed, with the
worry that the change would undermine the fundamental grassroots foundation.
Chair of the RSA, Res Jones, joins me, now, thanks
for your time this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Rece.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Hey, talk me through the new constitution. What prompted the
need for change?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
This was driven by the Incorporated Societies Act, which is
trying to resolve for a number of issues across the
corporate society. Sellers, I suppose professionalism of management that completent
their skills, but also most incorporate societies are quite divided
and there's a lot of conflict inside it, and so
there's also a requirement to include in constitutions two aspects,
(01:20):
one about the eligibility of people of offsholders and have
a complaint facility. The Act then says these have to
be in new constitutions, so that we are requiring everyone
to reregister with the new constitutions by April next year.
So this was part of our process of incorporating those
(01:41):
in the Acts. We took the opportunity to tidy up
some of their inconsistencies in the Constitution as well. I
do take a bit of opposition to you. You're calling
it a centralization. It isn't. It's a refocus, refocusing on veterans,
and it allows us to, I suppose, widen out the
(02:01):
reach of the RSA to those people who are not
in contact with us at the moment. And as you're
probably aware, for other things, there are huge amounts of
veterans who have decided not to be in contact with
the RSA because we're not really relevant to them. So
this allows us to widen that reach, to adopt different
ways of approaching that and support veterans who haven't in
(02:25):
the past reached out.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
To us, and so why don't they feel it's relevant
to them.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
That's the things that we're grappling with, and I suppose
for a large part it's because the RSA model has
been set out really from the from the World War One,
World War II Korean era, which was about how do
you maintain contact with people? And the RSA is there
to make sure that people are in contact with each other,
that we take care of each other, that if someone
(02:53):
is struggling, either with psychological issues or with physical injuries,
that we can support them. We can show we can
help them get the support they need. That in the
past has been focused around clubs where physically they can
meet and you know that culture of the RSA where
people go to, whereas modern veterans don't really want to
(03:16):
connect in that way. They would rather connect the ways
that's more actors, motorcycle clubs, the Memorial Army where they
go around refurbishing graystones, things like that. So we actually
need to widen it out. But we're also my first
of view, I'm also not worried if people don't join
the USA, so long as they know that they can
(03:38):
contact us when they need help. And that's why it's
just maintaining contact, maintaining awareness, and providing different things that
a lot of RSAs have already adapted to just being
a contact center or a drop and center where our
support officers can be there available when people need it.
So we're just trying to fully modernize and go there,
go online, far more presence and that all those kinds
(03:59):
of things we're trying to achieve.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
soThe how do you respond to those clubs that are
saying these changes? You know that they're not approving of
these changes.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
The other thing is always been a divided organization, and
every kind of generation of veterans feels that the next
generation hasn't really been that's not really a war, or
they're not really the same kind of veterans as we are.
So it's always been divided, and so that the current conflict,
I think is not just about the constitution. That's the
(04:34):
bone that they're arguing with at the moment. So it
really is up to us now to actually prove the
value of where we're going work with them. We don't
want people to leave, but if they feel they need to,
that's their issue. They'll be welcoming back if they have
a change their mind. So it's up to us now
to prove the path that we're going on. There's room
(04:54):
for them, there's room for the new people in here,
and that we're willing to listen to everyone's needs as
we go on. So yeah, it's less about the constitution
the more around just the grumpiness of of people not
wanting to I suppose have that it's not contruct command,
centralized command of control, but it's proper governance over it.
(05:15):
Because there are tens of millions of dollars worth of
funding around the RSA, that this needs to be that
proper governance, proper eligibility of people in here and not
it's not a social club, which often it's been run
over the last seventy years.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
In a similar way, if if you had a rebel
RSA that decided they wanted to leave, they would still
exist in under a different name, I presume, would you
try to re establish the RSA in that community.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Well, that would that would depend on what the new
club is doing. We would certainly need to be available
to veterans who need to reach to us in those communities,
and that's the important thing. It's not about that club
it's about what the RSA can do to help the veterans.
So would we kind of then set up another building
(06:05):
and with an RSA Brandon Probably not. And particularly if
the IRSA that's left us as providing support to veterans,
we would want to provide support to them, so the
cutoffs wouldn't be from our end. It would be then
not one to associate with it because it's all about veterans.
It's not about the clubs. It's about the veterans and
(06:28):
their support.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Recent other news this week, the government are looking to
expand the legal consideration of who was a veteran. Are
you pleased with this move?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yes, although it doesn't meet every issue that veterans are
facing today. But I think the best thing is it's
a vessel for conversation where the issues can be further analyzed,
where we can create a dialogue with Parliament over what
(06:58):
is the path that we want to go. But more important,
I think it's stimulated the awareness in the country or
it will stimulate in the country that veterans are not
the people with the names and only the people with
the names on the side of their memorials. And we
have antec dated to commemorate those who have died in
the septs of the country, but there hasn't really been
(07:20):
anything to commemorate or bring out of the shadows those
veterans who are still alive, many of them are still
scarred by their experiences in the military and by conflict,
but who are in communities now and have been invisible.
So yeah, it's a great step forward, but it's one
step in a journey that there's still a long way
to go.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
And look, Race, I really appreciate your time this morning.
Thank you so much for talking us through that. That
was chair of the Risa Rees Jones.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudken, listen
live to us talks there'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News talks'b Right.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
It has been a big week for the Royal New
Zealand RSA. The government is set to introduce legislation that
will formally recognize more former defense personnel as veterans. It's
expected around one hundred thousand people will be included, and
just yesterday, one hundred and eighty two RSA clubs voted
to decide the future of one hundred and eight year
old organization. A new constitution has been approved for the RSA,
(00:36):
aimed at modernizing and centralizing power, but dozens of clubs
threatened to leave if the constitution is passed, with the
worry that the change would undermine the fundamental grassroots foundation.
Chair of the RSA, Res Jones, joins me, now, thanks
for your time this morning.
Speaker 1 (00:51):
Rece.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
Hey, talk me through the new constitution. What prompted the
need for change?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
This was driven by the Incorporated Societies Act, which is
trying to resolve for a number of issues across the
corporate society. Sellers, I suppose professionalism of management that completent
their skills, but also most incorporate societies are quite divided
and there's a lot of conflict inside it, and so
there's also a requirement to include in constitutions two aspects,
(01:20):
one about the eligibility of people of offsholders and have
a complaint facility. The Act then says these have to
be in new constitutions, so that we are requiring everyone
to reregister with the new constitutions by April next year.
So this was part of our process of incorporating those
(01:41):
in the Acts. We took the opportunity to tidy up
some of their inconsistencies in the Constitution as well. I
do take a bit of opposition to you. You're calling
it a centralization. It isn't. It's a refocus, refocusing on veterans,
and it allows us to, I suppose, widen out the
(02:01):
reach of the RSA to those people who are not
in contact with us at the moment. And as you're
probably aware, for other things, there are huge amounts of
veterans who have decided not to be in contact with
the RSA because we're not really relevant to them. So
this allows us to widen that reach, to adopt different
ways of approaching that and support veterans who haven't in
(02:25):
the past reached out.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
To us, and so why don't they feel it's relevant
to them.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
That's the things that we're grappling with, and I suppose
for a large part it's because the RSA model has
been set out really from the from the World War One,
World War II Korean era, which was about how do
you maintain contact with people? And the RSA is there
to make sure that people are in contact with each other,
that we take care of each other, that if someone
(02:53):
is struggling, either with psychological issues or with physical injuries,
that we can support them. We can show we can
help them get the support they need. That in the
past has been focused around clubs where physically they can
meet and you know that culture of the RSA where
people go to, whereas modern veterans don't really want to
(03:16):
connect in that way. They would rather connect the ways
that's more actors, motorcycle clubs, the Memorial Army where they
go around refurbishing graystones, things like that. So we actually
need to widen it out. But we're also my first
of view, I'm also not worried if people don't join
the USA, so long as they know that they can
(03:38):
contact us when they need help. And that's why it's
just maintaining contact, maintaining awareness, and providing different things that
a lot of RSAs have already adapted to just being
a contact center or a drop and center where our
support officers can be there available when people need it.
So we're just trying to fully modernize and go there,
go online, far more presence and that all those kinds
(03:59):
of things we're trying to achieve.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
soThe how do you respond to those clubs that are
saying these changes? You know that they're not approving of
these changes.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
The other thing is always been a divided organization, and
every kind of generation of veterans feels that the next
generation hasn't really been that's not really a war, or
they're not really the same kind of veterans as we are.
So it's always been divided, and so that the current conflict,
I think is not just about the constitution. That's the
(04:34):
bone that they're arguing with at the moment. So it
really is up to us now to actually prove the
value of where we're going work with them. We don't
want people to leave, but if they feel they need to,
that's their issue. They'll be welcoming back if they have
a change their mind. So it's up to us now
to prove the path that we're going on. There's room
(04:54):
for them, there's room for the new people in here,
and that we're willing to listen to everyone's needs as
we go on. So yeah, it's less about the constitution
the more around just the grumpiness of of people not
wanting to I suppose have that it's not contruct command,
centralized command of control, but it's proper governance over it.
(05:15):
Because there are tens of millions of dollars worth of
funding around the RSA, that this needs to be that
proper governance, proper eligibility of people in here and not
it's not a social club, which often it's been run
over the last seventy years.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
In a similar way, if if you had a rebel
RSA that decided they wanted to leave, they would still
exist in under a different name, I presume, would you
try to re establish the RSA in that community.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Well, that would that would depend on what the new
club is doing. We would certainly need to be available
to veterans who need to reach to us in those communities,
and that's the important thing. It's not about that club
it's about what the RSA can do to help the veterans.
So would we kind of then set up another building
(06:05):
and with an RSA Brandon Probably not. And particularly if
the IRSA that's left us as providing support to veterans,
we would want to provide support to them, so the
cutoffs wouldn't be from our end. It would be then
not one to associate with it because it's all about veterans.
It's not about the clubs. It's about the veterans and
(06:28):
their support.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Recent other news this week, the government are looking to
expand the legal consideration of who was a veteran. Are
you pleased with this move?
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yes, although it doesn't meet every issue that veterans are
facing today. But I think the best thing is it's
a vessel for conversation where the issues can be further analyzed,
where we can create a dialogue with Parliament over what
(06:58):
is the path that we want to go. But more important,
I think it's stimulated the awareness in the country or
it will stimulate in the country that veterans are not
the people with the names and only the people with
the names on the side of their memorials. And we
have antec dated to commemorate those who have died in
the septs of the country, but there hasn't really been
(07:20):
anything to commemorate or bring out of the shadows those
veterans who are still alive, many of them are still
scarred by their experiences in the military and by conflict,
but who are in communities now and have been invisible.
So yeah, it's a great step forward, but it's one
step in a journey that there's still a long way
to go.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
And look, Race, I really appreciate your time this morning.
Thank you so much for talking us through that. That
was chair of the Risa Rees Jones.
Speaker 1 (07:49):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudken, listen
live to us talks there'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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