John Dew: New Zealand Archbishop Cardinal on Pope Francis' funeral

A sea of mourners watched on, as the Vatican bid a final farewell to Pope Francis last night.

The 88-year-old pontiff has now been laid to rest at Rome's Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore.

Hundreds of thousands filled out Saint Peter's Square and surrounding areas to catch a glimpse of the funeral.

New Zealand Archbishop Cardinal John Dew was among the crowd - and he said it was a 'lovely' ceremony.

"I think there were 50 heads of state here - from 50 different countries. I thought that just spoke volumes of the fact that that many people would make the effort to get to Rome for his funeral."

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Ruggin
from News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:12):
But Francis has been laid to rest at Rome's Basilica
of Santa Maria Marjorie. Overnight, hundreds of thousands filled out
Saint Peter's Square and surrounding areas for the funeral of
Pope Francis. One of those was New Zealand Archbishop Cardinal
John Due. He joins me, now, good morning, Cardinal.

Speaker 3 (00:29):
Good morning.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
It looked like a beautiful farewell to Pope Francis. What
was it like in Saint Peter's Square today?

Speaker 3 (00:37):
Yes, it was a beautiful farewell. It was a very
lovely ceremony. They estimate two hundred and fifty thousand people
around Saint Peter's, in the square and in the streets around.
But it was a very you think, with that many people,

(00:58):
you know, it could be very noisy. It was a
very prayer full time, very somber so of what we
call liturgy, the whole process of the prayer, but very
very beautifully done, and involvement of a large number of
people of different nationalities because obviously he was here for everyone,

(01:23):
and Orthodox bishops also took part at one stage, and
some of the final prayers in their own language, and
so those sort of things were really touching. And to
look across from where we were sitting and think there
were fifty heads of state here, you know, I mean

(01:46):
I had to state from fifty different countries that just
I thought that just spoke volumes of the you know,
the fact that that many people would make the effort
to get to Rome for his funeral rights.

Speaker 2 (02:01):
You were appointed a cardinal Bipope Francis in twenty fifteen.
Did that make me today all the more important to you?

Speaker 4 (02:09):
Yes, it does.

Speaker 3 (02:12):
Because of the fact that that meant that when you
become a cardinal, you're also appointed to some committees in Rome.
So over the years, I've had many trips to.

Speaker 4 (02:23):
Rome and.

Speaker 3 (02:26):
We always met with him for just some stage of
Usually those meetings are there about a week long, but
at some stage we always had a session with him,
and he was always just so friendly and welcoming and concerned.

Speaker 4 (02:42):
I always was.

Speaker 3 (02:44):
Blown away by the fact that he would say, how's
everyone in New Zealand? You know, when he's meeting people
day a hundreds of people day after day. He remembered
who we all were, and we were able to sit
down with him without any real formalities, just let's just
sit down and chat, you know, and that it has

(03:07):
never really happened. Therefore, those sort of ceremonies did be
a or gatherings. There'd be a welcome speech from someone,
or someone would speak about what we were doing, and
the pope would reply back. But he just wanted to
dis and chat. So that made a huge difference to
the way.

Speaker 4 (03:25):
We were able to relate to him.

Speaker 2 (03:27):
At his request. It was a simplified affair in terms
of what we've seen for other popes. An example was,
you know, he was later in a very simple casket
rather than something more elaborate. Is that symbolic of how
he was as a person and a pope?

Speaker 4 (03:43):
Yes, very much so.

Speaker 3 (03:44):
He everything about him from the moment he was elected
spoke volumes of the fact that while he respected ceremony
and participated in the ceremonies extremely well, he didn't stand

(04:06):
on and then sort of stand on ceremony.

Speaker 4 (04:11):
He didn't wear the.

Speaker 3 (04:13):
Elaborate, the more elaborate it was, the churgical vestments that
other popes had worn.

Speaker 4 (04:20):
He just wore his.

Speaker 3 (04:21):
It had been traditioned for popes to wear sort of
fancy red shoes. He just wore his old black shoes
and he did for the next twelve years. So a
lot of things like that, And even where he chose
to live. They lived in a Vatican guest house rather
than in the snow and as the Apostolic Palace, And

(04:42):
he said he wanted to do that because he wanted
to be with people rather than just a handful of
people who sort of served him and waited on him,
and he would have been left stranded apart from the
visitors he had during the day. So he did things
very simply and without great ceremony. And one of the

(05:04):
other things I think about today was when his body
was taken from Saint Peter's over to Saint Mary Major's.
On the steps of Saint Mary Major's, there were I'm
not sure how many people there were, but there were
some prisoners and refugees, some people who had been humanly

(05:26):
trafficked and had been daved. They those people gathered to
thank him because he gave them hope. They brought new
life to them, and he put the plight of refugees
and migrants and the scourge of human trafficking on the

(05:47):
world map. So for a pope to have that kind
of thing was very different and and I think spokes
speaks loud and clear that he was a pope for
the poor.

Speaker 2 (06:02):
Cardinal, you'll participate in the conclave to elect the next pope.
When does that process start and do you know what
to expect.

Speaker 3 (06:11):
Well, we've already started in the sense that we've already
had I've only been to one day because it took
me a while to obviously to arrange to get here
from New Zealand. Over the next few days we will
have what's known as general congregations, and we just spend

(06:33):
the morning and part of the afternoon.

Speaker 4 (06:37):
Talking together.

Speaker 3 (06:38):
This is all the cardinals talking together about the kind
of person we believe is needed to be elected for
the next pope. What are some of the issues that
the pope will have to face, both in the church
and in the world. So those general congregations will go
on for a few days while we just reflect together

(07:01):
about through what kind of person other than any names.
And at the same time, there's now we've gone into
sort of an official even though the journal has been held,
there's always an official nine days of morning. So there's
some special prayers that are said every day for the

(07:23):
next nine days, and I think about probably in about
a week's time. Towards the end of this week, we
will have made the decision about when the conclave starts.
So when that starts, that's when we go into the
whole voting system. So it's a few days away yet,

(07:44):
but there's still a lot, you know, it's an enormous
event to organize. Of course, then people will be working
hard to do all that, as they have for the
last few days to plan and prepare for the funeral.
So yeah, this is quite a lot ahead of us.

Speaker 2 (08:02):
What are you looking for in the next pope, Cardinel?

Speaker 4 (08:07):
I want to see someone who certainly is as a
gospel centered person and who encourages others to live the Gospel.

Speaker 3 (08:21):
And to know that living the Gospel brings brings life
and hope. And I think Francis has brought life and
hope to so many thousands of people around the world.

Speaker 4 (08:35):
And when we're not.

Speaker 3 (08:35):
Looking necessarily for a replica, we're looking for someone who say,
Peter was the first pope, and the pope is always
referred to as the successor of Peter, so we are
looking for a successor of Peter, and popes have been
very different over the years, but we are looking for
the right person to lead the church at this time.

Speaker 2 (08:58):
Cannel, John du thank you so much for your time
this morning, very much appreciate it.

Speaker 4 (09:03):
You're very welcome.

Speaker 3 (09:04):
Thank you very much.

Speaker 1 (09:06):
Or from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin. Listen live
to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.