June 21, 2025 • 11 mins
This week on the Sunday Panel, broadcaster and journalist, Wilhelmina Shrimpton, and resident economist at Opes Partners, Ed McKnight, joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
Peter Burling will join Italian syndicate Luna Rossa for the 38th edition of the America's Cup in an undefined role. What do we make of this? Should we be worried?
A new study out of MIT has revealed that increased use of ChatGPT could be linked to declining cognitive performance. Are we surprised by this?
One UK farm is charging $213 for people to cuddle a cow in a bid to boost revenue. Would you pay to cuddle a cow?
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Joining me on the panel. Today we have broadcaster and
journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Good morning, Wilhelmina, Good morning from a very crisp but
very sunny way he beach this morning.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Happy marthat akey.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Fantastic and resident economists at OPI's partners, Ed McKnight is
with us.
Speaker 5 (00:26):
Hi, Ed, great to be here, Francesca.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Oh, good to have you both with us. Peter Berling
has announced his next move in the America's Cup arena.
He is going to join the Italian syndicate Luna Rossa
for their next challenge. He is unlikely to be sailing
because there's a mission, you know, there's some rules that
many can't but he's going to be very much part
of their leadership team and things. I say, good on
(00:49):
him and best of luck. These are professional sportspeople. If
you can't organize a contract with you know, a team,
you look around for another job. It's just the nature
of the business.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
I reckon Ed, well, I'm quite surprised you see that, Francesca.
I thought you might be quite against it. But I
kind of agree with you on that, especially because he
went into the negotiating table and ultimately couldn't create a
deal with Team New Zealand. And the way that I
think about it, some people might be quite concerned that
he's going away. But if your whole team and your
(01:21):
whole winning strategy is based on one guy, you're probably
in a bit of trouble. And the only way you
can really steal all of Team in Z is to
hire all of Team ins He And really they're just
taking one player.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And look, I'm you know, Willhelmina, I'm not naive. He
knows an awful lot about Team New Zealand, the way
they work, the way they prepare, the design of boats,
all those kind of things. I mean, obviously hasn't been
part of this sort of next build up at the
stage yet, so there's probably things he doesn't know. He
probably does have an awful lot of information he's going
to take with us, which is why he'll be attractive
to another syndicate. But that's just once again the nature
(01:56):
of it. We're always we're all moving jobs and taking
our knowledge with us at times.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It's the nature of the game, right, You're really good
at your job, people are going to try and poach you,
and obviously they.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Offered an attractive that.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
That's what Team New Zealand was offering. I think the
thing is as well as that. As much as we're
there for the sport and the excitement of it, what
I think is also a huge part of the America's
Cup is actually the innovation and the tech side of it.
And I feel like, yes, we've lost this person, but
it's more motivation and more inspiration to try and go
above and beyond, try and figure out the next groundbreaking
(02:28):
move or the next technique or not that I'm a
sailor or anything, so I have no idea what I'm
talking about when it comes to technique, but finding the.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Next best way to approach the race.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I feel like that's kind of fifty percent of what
the America's Cup is all about. So I think it's
a really exciting opportunity that actually forces us and pushes
us to do better, to come up with the better
technology to go that step further when we all meet
at the next Cup.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
And you'd think that Team New Zealand be very much
aware that if they aren't able to come to an
agreement with him that this is probably going to be
the lightly outcome.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
Well, the really interesting thing was he said that what
he wasn't getting from Team New Zealand was flexibility to
do what he wanted to do on and off the boat.
So it's interesting that moving to Italy, going to the
other side of the world, gives him more of that
flexibility that he's looking for. So it does make you question, well,
how adepped with these negotiator is that team ends it
or maybe they just weren't that bothered at keeping him.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, I think he's got a lot of fingers in
a lot of different parts, has any of course, he's
got the organization and then he's got the SALGP and
things like that. So yeah, yeah, you're totally right. It's
that's a thing, and this is why it needs to
be a Netflix show. And I know Netflix is never
going to make a TV show about a competition which
happens every three or four years, because there's too much
time in between, and it would be really boring because
most of it will be per sent in a courtroom.
(03:45):
But I mean, there are a lot of conversations that
go on behind closed doors that we're not privy to it,
and it would be pretty interesting to be privy to it,
wouldn't it. I also it's interesting, though, ed you mentioned
that you were surprised by my comment. I'm getting less
and less. I love it when the competition comes around,
and I absolutely get behind Team New Zealand and I
get behind the Sailors, but I don't feel quite so
(04:07):
patriotic towards the team as I maybe did in the past,
and I think that's why I'm a little bit less
worked up about where Peak Berling's heading off to.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Do you feel the same, Well, for me, it doesn't
really bother me. I'm not hugely into sailing, but of
course I always like to see a New Zealand team winning.
What would be interesting though, is would you feel different
if it was the captain of the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Hm ah. I think this whole thing it adds a
bit more excitement to it, you know, the time and
the throw and the changing of teams. It adds another
dynamic and I think there's a risk of feeling and
getting complacent if there isn't a bit of a shakeup.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
I think this is what adds to the excitement of
the sport.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
If if it's the same every single time. It's the
same as if the All Blacks were winning all the time.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
I feel like we get a little bit bored. I
think there's excitement.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
And getting it right down to the wire, or losing
a team member or having to rejig and overhaul the
way that things are done. I think that's half of
the excitement, and I think we should continue that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I don't know they are in All Blacks. Captain would
want to go anywhere else, wouldn't. They kind of go,
this is where I want to be for as long
as I can, and then when the body gives up,
I'll go to Japan.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
It depends on how much they're getting paid, right, Yeah,
exactly exactly. There is a new study that has come
out of MIT's Media Lab which is basically saying to
us that if you use chatte gepp GPT, there's a
possibility that you're going to start underperforming cognitively, which may
or may not be a surprise to you guys. And
(05:35):
there's still a lot of work that needs to be
done on this research, but they're basically saying that the
chat GPT users had the lowest brain engagement and consistently
underperformed at neural.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Linguistic and behavioral levers levels compared to other people. I
don't know, Ed, do you use chat.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
GPT every single day? And I will give you an example.
So last night you don't know this about me, Francesca
or Wilhelmina, but I absolutely love getting a cook book
and spending a couple of hours in the kitchen. And
last night it was lamb leg night and I wanted
to know, well, what internal temperature should I cook my
(06:15):
lamb to? Well, chat GPT told me and gave me
a breakdown based on whether I wanted it to be rare, medium, rare,
whatever it is. I also use it if I'm trying
to cook three different things at once. If it's some
roast potatoes and some lamb and something else, well, they
all need to be cooked at different temperatures in my
oven and put in at different times.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
What schedule you know?
Speaker 5 (06:35):
When should I put each dish in and should I
adjust the temperature on the oven. It's absolutely great for
things like that, But what I would say is dumb
use of chat GPT makes you dumb. Smart use of these.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Times makes you come with a good argument. There, ED
very impressed with the cooking. By the way, what about you, Wilhelmina,
do you use it? Do you think it's dumbing you down?
Speaker 4 (06:55):
One hundred percent?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I'm offended that I've just been called dumb based on
the study, by the fact that I use chat GPT
so much in my everyday life.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I use it more of a search engine than I
do for Google. So it's a great research tool. It's
a great way to just add efficiencies. I'm a one
man band. I'm a soul trader. I don't have anyone
to palm off admin work to or to help me
with my admin work.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
So chat GPT is like my virtual assistant.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I can summarize meetings, I can transcribe interviews that I'm doing.
It saves me so much time. If I need a
bit of inspiration, it gives me the base.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
It's never going to replace my.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Creativity and my ideas and and my inspiration, but it's
a great point.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
It means I can get way more done with way
less time. And yeah, I'm a proud chat GPT user.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I don't know, I know people also use it as
chat GPT therapist, and I have asked it a friendship
related question before, and you know, the advice wasn't bad.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I'm so I'm so intrigued. I'm just starting an AI
course because I've decided, I you know, you've got to
know what you're talking about it if you're going to have
an opinion on it. I've just started. So I had
to download chat GPT and I just I've only just
did that. I felt dirty. I felt like I started
to the dark side. I just felt I just I
really my hand was almost shaking as I did a
double click.
Speaker 6 (08:07):
I was like, oh my gosh, sure you go. And
then I was only on it for life. I did
my little I did my little project that Michelle Dickinson,
She's put me on this course. I did a lot
of a project and then I got a little addicted.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
And then I started using it. And that's what I realized.
You need to learn. You need to know how to
use it well and efficiently to assist you. Otherwise, yes,
you could potentially spend a lot of time. Otherwise you'll
get left behind if they don't learn to use it.
God forbid, I get left behind. I've always said, well, Aelmina,
I'm quite happy to be a slow adapter when it
comes to tech. I still haven't got myself on social
(08:40):
media and I don't think that's harmy what so we've
all might get there one day, but you know we
won't rush that.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
The chat gbt to create you an Instagram or Facebook.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
See what it comes up with.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I look very quickly, though, I do want to touch
on a lovely story that came out of the UK
whereby and look, if you've read the news or you've
watched Claqueson's farm, we all know that the last few
years been really difficult for farmers in England, a lot
of floods. So one farm has decided to actually stop
farming and use their farm to offer visitors a cuddle,
a brush or a stroke of a cow as they
(09:11):
lie on straw covered enclosure inside a barn. They're charging
two hundred and thirteen dollars for a visit. You also
get a safari to see the Highland cattle. And apparently
this is just going off like everybody wants to cuddle
a cow. Would you pay two hundred and thirteen dollars
to cuddle a cow?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
No?
Speaker 5 (09:30):
No, I grew up around cow, so two hundred and
thirteen dollars seems very steep, but I do have a
soft spot for Highland kettle. I went on their website
saw some little baby Hiland kettle. I'm like, oh, maybe
I'd go one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
For the cute babies, the little calves.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
What are we about it?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
What about you, Wilhelmina. Do you see the calf as
a support animal? Good for a therapy animal.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Look, they seem like quite calm creatures the majority of
the time, but it depends on how cute they are
if it's a little baby freezing or something.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
But I don't know if i'd fork out for that.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I remember going to Japan, though, I feel like the
more unique the animal, the more willing I'd be paid
well to pay money.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
I went to an.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Otter cafe and sat in this little kind of enclosure
area and they made you kind of wear full ppe
but I had this pile of cuddly otters on top
of me, and we paid about fifty New Zealand dollars
to get in there, and we had ten minutes with them.
And look, they were very cute. They smelled awful, but
they were super cuddly and just, you know, an experience
(10:28):
unlike anything that I've ever actually been able to do before,
so I'd pay for that. Unique animals, I think, but
not so sure about the cow.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Oh well, Amina, I am so jealous about the otters.
I tried. I tried to climb into the otter enclosure
at the Auckland Zoo when I was about eight years old,
and Mum had to be called and I was removed
from the zoo. I just thought they were adorable. Oh,
very jealous. Yeah, No, I think cute animals. I think
if you walked into your therapy you walk into your
therapist and there was a cow there, I'm not sure
that that would have the same sort of impact when
it comes to a support animal or therapy animal, but
(10:59):
a cute little otter. Love it.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
liven Used Talk it Be from nine am Sunday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudgin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
Joining me on the panel. Today we have broadcaster and
journalist Wilhelmina Shrimpton.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Good morning, Wilhelmina, Good morning from a very crisp but
very sunny way he beach this morning.
Speaker 4 (00:21):
Happy marthat akey.
Speaker 2 (00:22):
Fantastic and resident economists at OPI's partners, Ed McKnight is
with us.
Speaker 5 (00:26):
Hi, Ed, great to be here, Francesca.
Speaker 2 (00:29):
Oh, good to have you both with us. Peter Berling
has announced his next move in the America's Cup arena.
He is going to join the Italian syndicate Luna Rossa
for their next challenge. He is unlikely to be sailing
because there's a mission, you know, there's some rules that
many can't but he's going to be very much part
of their leadership team and things. I say, good on
(00:49):
him and best of luck. These are professional sportspeople. If
you can't organize a contract with you know, a team,
you look around for another job. It's just the nature
of the business.
Speaker 5 (01:00):
I reckon Ed, well, I'm quite surprised you see that, Francesca.
I thought you might be quite against it. But I
kind of agree with you on that, especially because he
went into the negotiating table and ultimately couldn't create a
deal with Team New Zealand. And the way that I
think about it, some people might be quite concerned that
he's going away. But if your whole team and your
(01:21):
whole winning strategy is based on one guy, you're probably
in a bit of trouble. And the only way you
can really steal all of Team in Z is to
hire all of Team ins He And really they're just
taking one player.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
And look, I'm you know, Willhelmina, I'm not naive. He
knows an awful lot about Team New Zealand, the way
they work, the way they prepare, the design of boats,
all those kind of things. I mean, obviously hasn't been
part of this sort of next build up at the
stage yet, so there's probably things he doesn't know. He
probably does have an awful lot of information he's going
to take with us, which is why he'll be attractive
to another syndicate. But that's just once again the nature
(01:56):
of it. We're always we're all moving jobs and taking
our knowledge with us at times.
Speaker 3 (02:00):
It's the nature of the game, right, You're really good
at your job, people are going to try and poach you,
and obviously they.
Speaker 4 (02:05):
Offered an attractive that.
Speaker 3 (02:06):
That's what Team New Zealand was offering. I think the
thing is as well as that. As much as we're
there for the sport and the excitement of it, what
I think is also a huge part of the America's
Cup is actually the innovation and the tech side of it.
And I feel like, yes, we've lost this person, but
it's more motivation and more inspiration to try and go
above and beyond, try and figure out the next groundbreaking
(02:28):
move or the next technique or not that I'm a
sailor or anything, so I have no idea what I'm
talking about when it comes to technique, but finding the.
Speaker 4 (02:34):
Next best way to approach the race.
Speaker 3 (02:36):
I feel like that's kind of fifty percent of what
the America's Cup is all about. So I think it's
a really exciting opportunity that actually forces us and pushes
us to do better, to come up with the better
technology to go that step further when we all meet
at the next Cup.
Speaker 2 (02:52):
And you'd think that Team New Zealand be very much
aware that if they aren't able to come to an
agreement with him that this is probably going to be
the lightly outcome.
Speaker 5 (03:01):
Well, the really interesting thing was he said that what
he wasn't getting from Team New Zealand was flexibility to
do what he wanted to do on and off the boat.
So it's interesting that moving to Italy, going to the
other side of the world, gives him more of that
flexibility that he's looking for. So it does make you question, well,
how adepped with these negotiator is that team ends it
or maybe they just weren't that bothered at keeping him.
Speaker 2 (03:24):
Well, I think he's got a lot of fingers in
a lot of different parts, has any of course, he's
got the organization and then he's got the SALGP and
things like that. So yeah, yeah, you're totally right. It's
that's a thing, and this is why it needs to
be a Netflix show. And I know Netflix is never
going to make a TV show about a competition which
happens every three or four years, because there's too much
time in between, and it would be really boring because
most of it will be per sent in a courtroom.
(03:45):
But I mean, there are a lot of conversations that
go on behind closed doors that we're not privy to it,
and it would be pretty interesting to be privy to it,
wouldn't it. I also it's interesting, though, ed you mentioned
that you were surprised by my comment. I'm getting less
and less. I love it when the competition comes around,
and I absolutely get behind Team New Zealand and I
get behind the Sailors, but I don't feel quite so
(04:07):
patriotic towards the team as I maybe did in the past,
and I think that's why I'm a little bit less
worked up about where Peak Berling's heading off to.
Speaker 5 (04:15):
Do you feel the same, Well, for me, it doesn't
really bother me. I'm not hugely into sailing, but of
course I always like to see a New Zealand team winning.
What would be interesting though, is would you feel different
if it was the captain of the All Blacks.
Speaker 3 (04:30):
Hm ah. I think this whole thing it adds a
bit more excitement to it, you know, the time and
the throw and the changing of teams. It adds another
dynamic and I think there's a risk of feeling and
getting complacent if there isn't a bit of a shakeup.
Speaker 4 (04:46):
I think this is what adds to the excitement of
the sport.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
If if it's the same every single time. It's the
same as if the All Blacks were winning all the time.
Speaker 4 (04:53):
I feel like we get a little bit bored. I
think there's excitement.
Speaker 3 (04:55):
And getting it right down to the wire, or losing
a team member or having to rejig and overhaul the
way that things are done. I think that's half of
the excitement, and I think we should continue that.
Speaker 2 (05:05):
I don't know they are in All Blacks. Captain would
want to go anywhere else, wouldn't. They kind of go,
this is where I want to be for as long
as I can, and then when the body gives up,
I'll go to Japan.
Speaker 3 (05:14):
It depends on how much they're getting paid, right, Yeah,
exactly exactly. There is a new study that has come
out of MIT's Media Lab which is basically saying to
us that if you use chatte gepp GPT, there's a
possibility that you're going to start underperforming cognitively, which may
or may not be a surprise to you guys. And
(05:35):
there's still a lot of work that needs to be
done on this research, but they're basically saying that the
chat GPT users had the lowest brain engagement and consistently
underperformed at neural.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
Linguistic and behavioral levers levels compared to other people. I
don't know, Ed, do you use chat.
Speaker 5 (05:55):
GPT every single day? And I will give you an example.
So last night you don't know this about me, Francesca
or Wilhelmina, but I absolutely love getting a cook book
and spending a couple of hours in the kitchen. And
last night it was lamb leg night and I wanted
to know, well, what internal temperature should I cook my
(06:15):
lamb to? Well, chat GPT told me and gave me
a breakdown based on whether I wanted it to be rare, medium, rare,
whatever it is. I also use it if I'm trying
to cook three different things at once. If it's some
roast potatoes and some lamb and something else, well, they
all need to be cooked at different temperatures in my
oven and put in at different times.
Speaker 4 (06:34):
What schedule you know?
Speaker 5 (06:35):
When should I put each dish in and should I
adjust the temperature on the oven. It's absolutely great for
things like that, But what I would say is dumb
use of chat GPT makes you dumb. Smart use of these.
Speaker 2 (06:45):
Times makes you come with a good argument. There, ED
very impressed with the cooking. By the way, what about you, Wilhelmina,
do you use it? Do you think it's dumbing you down?
Speaker 4 (06:55):
One hundred percent?
Speaker 3 (06:56):
I'm offended that I've just been called dumb based on
the study, by the fact that I use chat GPT
so much in my everyday life.
Speaker 4 (07:02):
I love it.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
I use it more of a search engine than I
do for Google. So it's a great research tool. It's
a great way to just add efficiencies. I'm a one
man band. I'm a soul trader. I don't have anyone
to palm off admin work to or to help me
with my admin work.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
So chat GPT is like my virtual assistant.
Speaker 3 (07:19):
I can summarize meetings, I can transcribe interviews that I'm doing.
It saves me so much time. If I need a
bit of inspiration, it gives me the base.
Speaker 4 (07:28):
It's never going to replace my.
Speaker 3 (07:29):
Creativity and my ideas and and my inspiration, but it's
a great point.
Speaker 4 (07:34):
It means I can get way more done with way
less time. And yeah, I'm a proud chat GPT user.
Speaker 3 (07:40):
I don't know, I know people also use it as
chat GPT therapist, and I have asked it a friendship
related question before, and you know, the advice wasn't bad.
Speaker 2 (07:47):
I'm so I'm so intrigued. I'm just starting an AI
course because I've decided, I you know, you've got to
know what you're talking about it if you're going to have
an opinion on it. I've just started. So I had
to download chat GPT and I just I've only just
did that. I felt dirty. I felt like I started
to the dark side. I just felt I just I
really my hand was almost shaking as I did a
double click.
Speaker 6 (08:07):
I was like, oh my gosh, sure you go. And
then I was only on it for life. I did
my little I did my little project that Michelle Dickinson,
She's put me on this course. I did a lot
of a project and then I got a little addicted.
Speaker 2 (08:18):
And then I started using it. And that's what I realized.
You need to learn. You need to know how to
use it well and efficiently to assist you. Otherwise, yes,
you could potentially spend a lot of time. Otherwise you'll
get left behind if they don't learn to use it.
God forbid, I get left behind. I've always said, well, Aelmina,
I'm quite happy to be a slow adapter when it
comes to tech. I still haven't got myself on social
(08:40):
media and I don't think that's harmy what so we've
all might get there one day, but you know we
won't rush that.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
The chat gbt to create you an Instagram or Facebook.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
See what it comes up with.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
I look very quickly, though, I do want to touch
on a lovely story that came out of the UK
whereby and look, if you've read the news or you've
watched Claqueson's farm, we all know that the last few
years been really difficult for farmers in England, a lot
of floods. So one farm has decided to actually stop
farming and use their farm to offer visitors a cuddle,
a brush or a stroke of a cow as they
(09:11):
lie on straw covered enclosure inside a barn. They're charging
two hundred and thirteen dollars for a visit. You also
get a safari to see the Highland cattle. And apparently
this is just going off like everybody wants to cuddle
a cow. Would you pay two hundred and thirteen dollars
to cuddle a cow?
Speaker 3 (09:30):
No?
Speaker 5 (09:30):
No, I grew up around cow, so two hundred and
thirteen dollars seems very steep, but I do have a
soft spot for Highland kettle. I went on their website
saw some little baby Hiland kettle. I'm like, oh, maybe
I'd go one hundred and twenty.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
For the cute babies, the little calves.
Speaker 5 (09:46):
What are we about it?
Speaker 2 (09:47):
What about you, Wilhelmina. Do you see the calf as
a support animal? Good for a therapy animal.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
Look, they seem like quite calm creatures the majority of
the time, but it depends on how cute they are
if it's a little baby freezing or something.
Speaker 4 (10:00):
But I don't know if i'd fork out for that.
Speaker 3 (10:02):
I remember going to Japan, though, I feel like the
more unique the animal, the more willing I'd be paid
well to pay money.
Speaker 4 (10:07):
I went to an.
Speaker 3 (10:08):
Otter cafe and sat in this little kind of enclosure
area and they made you kind of wear full ppe
but I had this pile of cuddly otters on top
of me, and we paid about fifty New Zealand dollars
to get in there, and we had ten minutes with them.
And look, they were very cute. They smelled awful, but
they were super cuddly and just, you know, an experience
(10:28):
unlike anything that I've ever actually been able to do before,
so I'd pay for that. Unique animals, I think, but
not so sure about the cow.
Speaker 2 (10:37):
Oh well, Amina, I am so jealous about the otters.
I tried. I tried to climb into the otter enclosure
at the Auckland Zoo when I was about eight years old,
and Mum had to be called and I was removed
from the zoo. I just thought they were adorable. Oh,
very jealous. Yeah, No, I think cute animals. I think
if you walked into your therapy you walk into your
therapist and there was a cow there, I'm not sure
that that would have the same sort of impact when
it comes to a support animal or therapy animal, but
(10:59):
a cute little otter. Love it.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
liven Used Talk it Be from nine am Sunday, or
follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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