Full Show Podcast: 13 July 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:13):
It's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (00:15):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wickles for
the best election of Great Reads Us.

Speaker 2 (00:21):
Talks ed B.

Speaker 3 (00:28):
Good morning, Good to have you with us on the
Sunday Session. I'm Francisco bud Cain with you until midday.
Well done to parents for getting to the end of
the holidays. Congratulations be all Blacks for a decisive one
over France last night. It was a bit more like
it wasn't it? More on Rugby later worth finding and
of course our thoughts also with the people of the Nelson,
Tasman District. We're going to head there shortly. Coming up

(00:50):
in the show today to excellent storytellers with fascinating stories
to tell. After ten, our finest crime writer, Steve Brawny
as is with us to talk about his new book
for Polkinghorn Inside The Trial of the Century. You know
what it's about, but this book offers a unique insight
into the investigation, the trial and the characters involved, many
of whom Steve got to know. Steve Brauny us with

(01:12):
us after ten. After eleven, another master storyteller joins us.
His name is Owen Mulligan. He's the brother of actress
Carrie Mulligan, but he is joining us today to talk
about his experience of being a soldier in the British Army.
His book The Accidental Soldier is a darkly funny account
of what it's really like to be in the British
Army and his experience of being on tour in Iraq

(01:33):
in two thousand and six. It's funny, but it's also
terrifyingly moving, an adrenaline pumping story. So Owen Mulligan is
with us after eleven, and of course, as always, you're
most welcome to text this morning, anytime. Ninety two ninety.

Speaker 2 (01:47):
Two the Sunday session on.

Speaker 3 (01:51):
Friday afternoon, when I heard that Rae Chung Merrill, candidate
for Wellington, was going to appear with Ryan Bridge on
news talk seed Be's Drive to discuss the gossipy email
he sent regarding Tory Fano, I thought good on him
for fronting. Seven minutes and twenty seconds later, I was
as speechless as Ryan Bridge. What a bumbling, embarrassing train

(02:12):
wreck of an interview. Firstly, there was a comment that
had been a hard couple of days for Ray since
the email was publicly released. Well, yes, when you're running
in a local body election in court spreading solicious gossip,
it can make for a tough day. But considering that
mister Chung had been on the phone since four am
on Friday morning and spent the day talking to media

(02:33):
about the fiasco, you'd expect him to have crafted a
tight message by five pm. I expected him to apologize
for spreading gossip, clarify what happened, accept responsibility, you know,
to demonstrate some well leadership potential, some mayoral potential. Instead,
when asked by Ryan Bridge why he passed on the
information in the email, this is what he said, Well.

Speaker 4 (02:54):
I didn't know. Well, what I found was this is
six weeks into council, six weeks in being there, and
the council operates very, very differently to any organization. So
I wanted some advice from someone has been there a
bit longer, and so do it. I mean, this is
you know, it is you know, an issue, and it

(03:15):
affects the reputation of the city, So you know, how
many people actually know about this? What should actually happen,
and so is that what you asked? You asked in
the email you said, I want some advice on what
I should do with this. No, I told them, no,
you didn't remember that.

Speaker 3 (03:31):
You didn't kind of felt like you was making it
up on the spot. Good God. Look, I'm a big
advocate for voting in local body elections. I want to
have a say and who runs my city. I know
it's not the cool thing to do and most people
can't be bothered. But I love and appreciate everything my
city has to offer and I want to be I
want it to be great in an affordable place to live.
But to get people to vote, we need candidates who

(03:53):
are articulate, smart and decisive leaders. We need people who
understand the political environment, can work with others and know
how to get things done. Back in twenty twenty two,
Wellington City councilor I ownA and it's to spared at
how toxic and negative the campaigning was in that local
body election. More recently, Torrifano has called politics an ugly place.

(04:13):
Some of the issues highlighted by Crown Observer of Wellington
City Council Lindsay McKenzie are that it's an overwhelmed council.
There is public criticism by elected members and dysfunctional relationships.
If there was ever a time Wellington needed a candidate
who can convince constituents that they can as mayor bring
this council together and make it function, then it's now.

(04:36):
And yet here we are, ten days after candidate nominations
open for local body elections, and the dirty politics is
kicked off. Did Ray Chung write that email out of
genuine concern for his mayor? Probably not. Has the emails
release been time to hurt his campaign? Probably yes. So
no one looks particularly great, do they. Wellington deserves better.

(04:58):
This isn't a big enough faux path for Chunks take
himself out of the race. But if he's going to continue,
can I suggest he takes a simpler approach to dealing
with issues When the receipt as the CA i'd say
these days, is there for all to see, apologize and
take accountability. You don't need to over explain, and if
you're ever asked whether you've had an orgy, just say no.

(05:19):
The Sunday session, when I was Welcome to Texas Morning
in ninety two, ninety two, I don't know if you
heard that interview. I was a little bit taken back
by it. As I said, I would have thought that
by five pm you'd have a pretty clear message, you'd
take control of the situation, you would just move on
from the story. There was just this stumbling, kind of
bumbling explanation that went on and on and on, and
then the orgy question at the end. Oh my goodness. Anyway,

(05:40):
we might talk about that little bit, little bit later
as well. In the panel. It is twelve past nine.
You were most welcome to text any time. Ninety two
ninety two, Keep it simple.

Speaker 2 (05:51):
It's Sunday.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
The Sunday Session with Francesca Rudgin and Wiggles for the
best selection of great readings, news talks end be.

Speaker 3 (05:59):
Fifteen past nine. Write and a call for urgent action
to fix the broken energy sector. This morning, a group
of all organizations have published an open letter to the
Prime Minister in the Herald on Sunday and other Sunday papers.
The letter calls for the government to make comprehensive reforms
of the energy market. Consumer New Zealand and the Employers
and Manufacturers Association are two of the organizations behind the letter.

(06:22):
I am joined now by Consumer New Zealand CEO John Duffy.
Good morning, John, Good morning, And I'm also joined by
EMA's Alan McDonald. Thanks so much for being with us,
Allan morning.

Speaker 5 (06:33):
How's it going good?

Speaker 3 (06:34):
Thanks?

Speaker 2 (06:35):
Alan?

Speaker 3 (06:35):
Can I start with you? Why this letter?

Speaker 2 (06:37):
Why?

Speaker 3 (06:37):
Now?

Speaker 6 (06:38):
I think it just reflects the urgency that we need
to see in getting a fix to some fairly significant
structural problems. Problems that have last year contributed to several
businesses closing down. And when I was talking to a
number of our members earlier this year, they were looking
at prices again over winter and if there's similar spikes
to what we've had last year, then they will also

(07:00):
contemplate making that very tough decision whether or not to
stay open.

Speaker 3 (07:03):
John, Why have you all banded together to take action?

Speaker 6 (07:07):
Yeah?

Speaker 7 (07:08):
We are kind of strange bedfellows if you think of
what we will all do separately. But it is, as
Allen says, it's the urgency of the issue. So just
as employers and manufacturers are contemplating price increases and considering
whether they're going to have to cut back, shut lines down,
lay people off, that sort of thing, consumers, the people
of New Zealand are sitting there contemplating whether they can

(07:30):
afford to put the heater on. And I know that's
not everybody, but a significant and growing portion of the
population is having to make really tough choices about how
they manage their electricity bills. And sometimes those choices are
so tough it comes down to choosing whether to put
food on the table in a given week or pay
the power bill.

Speaker 3 (07:49):
Allan, you mentioned significant problems. You say that the energy
market is broken. Talk me through that. How is it broken?

Speaker 5 (07:56):
Well, we've got a.

Speaker 6 (07:57):
Market where we pay manufacturers to stop making stuff and
sell electricity back so we can keep other manufacturers and
other cidential customers in electricity. Paying people to stop making
stuff and sell electricity. That isn't an ideal world for
any business at all. So that's hugely problematic. And we've

(08:19):
gone from a place of having internationally competitive electricity pricing
that actually bought major industries here to pricing that's closing
our own businesses.

Speaker 5 (08:30):
And that's just not good enough.

Speaker 3 (08:31):
Okay, So what do you want from the government.

Speaker 6 (08:35):
There are several things, none of them are really quick fixes.
But for example, you could establish a second market where
those businesses are being paid to put electricity back into
the system. You could establish a market so more businesses
can contribute to that. So that's one thing that could happen.

(08:55):
We really do need to get on with gas exploration.
We need that gas or some kind of thermal option
to back what.

Speaker 5 (09:02):
We're doing with things like solar and wind.

Speaker 6 (09:05):
So that's got to happen as quickly as possible, but
that's still two or three years away. That's if we
can convince some people to come down and drill.

Speaker 5 (09:12):
For more gas. So that's an alternative.

Speaker 6 (09:15):
It would probably help if we didn't have three regulators
looking at the market and we only had one, and
it would possibly help if the foot the gen tailors
and anyone's taking a crack at them, but they're only
really responding to the way the market works. But if
there could be perhaps a bit more cooperation amongst them,
like we've seen with them paying for the coal stockpile

(09:38):
and Huntley for example, So that we take an ended
ink viewpoint rather than an individual company viewpoint, This is
where I can make money, and part of that too
might be setting aside Huntly because it's the most expensive
generation in the country and when that comes on strength,
that sets the price. So maybe looking at not having

(10:00):
hunt we set the price, or some alternative that could
be something that we could look at because we've really
got to get some stability into the And.

Speaker 3 (10:06):
Are they more short term solutions dealing with the regulation
and things.

Speaker 6 (10:11):
You could do those quicker than paths bringing on more generation.
There was a lot of generation in the pipeline. There's
about seventeen or eighteen projects in the fast track, but
you know, you've got to get them consented, you've got
to build them, and then you also have to connect
them to the grid and that's also a slow process.
But that's something that's being done in the new Arema
as well. So there are bits and pieces in place,

(10:32):
we just need to do them a hell of a
lot faster.

Speaker 3 (10:35):
So, John, if we're looking at the ordinary consumer, what
do you want to see from the government, what are
the solutions here to ease the pressure on the ordinary consumer?

Speaker 7 (10:46):
Well, I think we need to recognize that electricities in
essential service. And you know, Ellen makes some really good
points around the structure of the market. We've set up
a market, you know, thirty years ago that was meant
to have competition and market forces putting downward pressure on
price and causing market participants innovate and invest in new

(11:08):
generation when prices are high. We just haven't seen that,
and we've given the market a good crack. It's been
running for thirty years and we can see the flaws
in it. So what we need to do is design
a market that actually incentivizes the generators or the gen
tailors to build generation slightly ahead of demand rather than

(11:28):
slightly behind demand, which we see at the moment, because
that's one of the reasons that prices are staying high. Similarly,
we actually need a unified strategy. And I think again
this picks up on points that Allen's made. All of
the different moving parts in this system need to be
brought together in a cohesive way. And I think, you know,
the number of regulators is a problem, and again indicative

(11:52):
of the piecemeal way that we regulate this system, where
one hand's really not talking to the other and we
don't have central government saying all right, here's all the
different factors. Here's you know, security of supply, here's climate changeation,
here's affordability. Let's pull these all together in one unified
strategy and all these different moving parts you start moving

(12:14):
in sync with each other to deliver good outcomes for
both commercial clients and for consumers.

Speaker 3 (12:22):
Allen, we've had you know, the government has said that
they're undertaking review of the elec tristing market. Is that enough?

Speaker 6 (12:29):
Well, we've had a lot of reviews of a lot
of things over many years.

Speaker 5 (12:33):
Be really good to have some action that.

Speaker 3 (12:35):
Pretty much sums that up. What happens if we don't
act on these issues, John.

Speaker 7 (12:43):
Well, I think you know, some of the some of
the talk around the industrialization, some of the evidence of
that actually happening, will continue, will continue to underinvest in
this super essential service for the health and wellbeing of
our people, will continue to see the negative health income
outcomes of poorly heated houses flow through into the health system.

(13:08):
Costs upon costs upon costs will mount up on society,
and you know, we'll end up in a pretty dark place,
no pun intended. We need to fix this. This is
really an essential key to unlocking the economic growth that
the government is talking about so passionately. And look, we
all support that growth.

Speaker 5 (13:28):
Growth.

Speaker 7 (13:28):
You know, economic growth should bring prosperity through to society.
But if one of the fundamental building blocks is holding
us back, we need to fix it.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
I was just going to say that, Alan. You know,
we hear a lot about growth and productivity. Is this
one of the key issues that needs to be fixed
in order to move forward?

Speaker 6 (13:45):
Absolutely, the industrialization is a real problem, and it's been
a growing problem for quite some time. And I'm actually
going back out on the road to talk to our
members tomorrow and I'll talk to around two thousand of
them over the next three weeks or so, and I'm
expecting to hear a lot of businesses feeling the pain
around electricity pricing and really seriously contemplate those tough decisions

(14:07):
whether or not to carry on.

Speaker 3 (14:09):
John Duffy and Allan Donald, thank you very much for
your time this morning. Appreciate that. Can you hear your
thoughts on this? Are we seeing enough action? Text ninety
two ninety two good sumid session? Right Nelson, Tasman is
facing millions of dollars of damage following Fridays severe weather
last week. Federated Farmers were calling for help from the
farming community over the level of damage from previous flooding

(14:32):
in the area. So what impact has this latest round
of rain had on an already battling farming community. Kerrie
Irvan is the Federated Farmers Nelson Tasman Provincial president and
he joins me now from Tappawerda. How are you, Kerry?

Speaker 8 (14:47):
You're right, Yeah, I'm good. Yeah, there's sack to say,
pretty bruise embedded. Yeah, it's been been a pretty tough
couple of days.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
I think yesterday afternoon when we touch base with you,
you were trapped on one part of your farm.

Speaker 8 (15:04):
I yeah, so where was the trapped up here valley? Yeah,
so we we lost power, we lost internet, so we
regained them about four o'clock yesterday, but yeah, they're still Yeah,
we're still blocked up here valley from forestry slash that's
come down across the road and I think about seven

(15:26):
different spots just on our road. And I know other
people in the district that are still trapped with the
bridges being washed out or slips and stuff that have
come across the road. It's yeah, there's a lot happening.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
How else have you been personally impacted? I know that
you've been able to send a drone up and take
a look at the property.

Speaker 8 (15:47):
Yeah, so we can. We've got two properties. So we're
our home. Fun here is you know, we've had quite
a bit of damage sort of in the river and
a lot of washouts and cranks blowing out and whatnot.
Our farm and taftware is just been devastated.

Speaker 5 (16:07):
Again.

Speaker 8 (16:07):
We spent the last two weeks putting putting the fences
back up to to to only hear that they're all
sitting sitting on the ground again. So yeah, that's it's
pretty demoralizing actually, to be honest.

Speaker 3 (16:22):
Yeap gutting. I mean, look, when we knew that things
were already bad after the last lot of weathers, so
you know how much worse has Friday's rain made the
situation across the region.

Speaker 8 (16:33):
It's yeah, it's it's been a real you know, like
that first weather event, there's you know, people had a
pretty hard exterea and probably crying on the insight after
after this net a couple of days ago, Like we're
crying on the outside now. So many people I've talked
to and I think near tim King last night, you know,

(16:58):
like where do we start. There's so many properties that
are just so devastated. Like with the first question is
whether we start.

Speaker 3 (17:07):
So what impact is this going to have on farmers
in the area.

Speaker 8 (17:12):
Oh yeah, look, some of our properties will never look
the same again. I've been a lot of people have
sent me pictures of what the farm looks like now,
and they're just the rivers, the creeks and streams have
just ripped raw and there's so much land loss. There's

(17:35):
We've got good friends and just out of temporary here.
They've lost the whole Boysoonberry Garden. It's just gone. It's
just there's nothing. There's not even a post in the ground.
It's just incredible. I was looking at the looking at
the message I got last night, I thought, what, how
hell hell has that done that?

Speaker 5 (17:57):
That?

Speaker 8 (17:58):
Yeah, they've just lost the whole boys and Very garden.
And if there's just one story of so many so kurriy.

Speaker 3 (18:05):
What is going to been needed to overcome this? What
support to farmers need?

Speaker 5 (18:11):
Look?

Speaker 8 (18:11):
Yeah, really we need so much central government help like this,
this weather event is too big for our Nowson City
Council and our Teasman District Council. We really need central
help on this one. Like the devastation on the roads
just alone is huge impact on farmers. Just you know,

(18:37):
I don't even know where to start.

Speaker 3 (18:40):
Is there support available care? I mean, where does the
support need you know, is the support available now?

Speaker 8 (18:47):
Yeah, there is so real regarding this farming sect. There's
a real sport of our fantastic they really have so
but the biggest problem we have right now is actually
getting our people. There's still one hundred and our three
hundred and fifty seven houses that still have no power.

(19:11):
So the problem we have now is actually getting people
connected again, you know, and trying to help those people
that need help. There's the biggest problem. Yeah, So Carrie, how.

Speaker 3 (19:23):
Long do you think it's going to be before your
roads are cleared and you're no longer blocked off.

Speaker 8 (19:29):
Well, we've organized. One of the neighbors actually got a
twenty ton dagger, so we're walking. He's in the process
of walking that down the road and for some reason
he's got a fifty ton loader as well. So you know,
in the rule sector, you know, sometimes we've just got

(19:49):
to roll up our sleeves and make ourselves connected. So yeah,
I think that process is probably starting now. But you know,
some of these other ones where the bridges washed out
and the rivers are still swollen and light. I know
there's one place in Stanley Broke there's twenty old people

(20:10):
that are just the stream that they got no no
way out.

Speaker 3 (20:15):
Carrie. I really appreciate your time this morning. I know
it's been a pretty fullng couple of days and you're
probably exhausted, but really appreciate you talking to us. Thank
you so much. That was Karrie Irvine, Federated Farmers, Nelson,
Tasman Provincial president talking to us there from Tapawera. Federated
Farmers is urging people to donate to the Farmers Adverse
Events Trust to support flood hit farmers in the region.

(20:38):
So if you would like to donate, you just go
to Farmers Adverse Events dot co dot nz Ford slash donates.
That's Farmers Adverse Events dot co dot nz Ford slash donate. God,
it's tough, isn't it. I really he really got me
when he said, look, you know, last few weeks crying
on the inside but just getting on with it. But

(20:59):
now it's just crying on the outside. You get that right.
It is nine to thirty. Local Politics is up next
here on the Sunday Session.

Speaker 1 (21:09):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
a b.

Speaker 3 (21:15):
Thanks very much for your texts. I listened to the
ray Chung interviewer text has written cringeworthy. I'm not left
leaning constituent, but I feel he's just handed the mayorty
to Andrew Little on a plate. So he said, I
think ray Chung should stick to the orgies he clearly
enjoys and say goodbye to politics. Unbelievable interview Ryan hit

(21:38):
Gold there and look, Ryan didn't need to do anything,
did he? You just sat back and let it all unfold.

Speaker 5 (21:44):
Hi. There.

Speaker 3 (21:44):
The mind boggling thing about this is the astounding lack
of judgment shown by people hoping to be in leadership positions.
They immediately disqualify themselves. At cheers, Tony, thank you for
the text, and keep them coming. Ninety two ninety two,
Right time to talk a little bit more about local politics.
Were joined by New Zealand Heil political editor Thomas Coglan.
Good morning, Thomas, Good morning. Right, David Seymour, isn't a

(22:05):
all of words with the UN talk me through this?

Speaker 9 (22:09):
Yes?

Speaker 10 (22:10):
So, look, the u N has these special rappertures. They
effectively are watchdogs of their certain areas. One of one
of these special rapper tours is is one for Indigenous rights.
Uh and and that special Rapper Rapport has has written
to the government and and raised some issues with the

(22:30):
Regulatory Stands Bill in particular, but but also the government's
greenieric approach to general pardon the approach to indigenous issues.

Speaker 5 (22:38):
UH.

Speaker 10 (22:40):
David Seymour, as the Minister responsible for the Regulatory Stands Bill,
has has shot back and basically said that as someone
who has Mary fucker Popper himself, uh, the u n's
Special Rapperture should not be taking his nose and effectively
to enter the government's business. David Tymore as a as

(23:01):
a person with Mary's descent, is basically saying, I, as
an ari person, have every right to make sovereign decisions
as a minister in this government on indigenous issues. And
that is an example of I guess some this governments
approach to that issue.

Speaker 3 (23:21):
So his has either party in this particular case overstepped
the line.

Speaker 10 (23:28):
That's a very good question, I said the Special Rapperteur,
it is their job to put these issues under a microscope.
Like the son the Special Rappertur to. His name is
Albert Baum, Albert K. Barom. That is that is his
job to to hear complaints. I believe he's he has
received complaints from New Zealand we about the government's agenda

(23:51):
and to look at them and then to right the
letters to the government saying well, look, I personally think
you've heard in this area and Davidson where as every
right I guess to the family government's records. So so
I think they're both both within their within their remits.

Speaker 3 (24:05):
Here right today, the ACT Party is going to host
US twenty twenty five rally Free End Equal that's taking
place at Shed ten on Auckland's water front.

Speaker 10 (24:14):
What are we expecting, Yeah, I'm David Seymour has a
speech scheduled later on, so you can expect the usual
tub bumping about how great he thinks the ACT contribution
to the government is, so prepare for a bit of that.
I think he's probably going to look at some areas
where obviously we're we're halfway through the term now willing

(24:36):
to contain mode and obviously the first local body elections
with that will feature ACT candidates later this year, so
you're going to see a bit more detail on that,
and I think you know you're also going to see
the ACTS try to differentiate itself and the coalition or
by saying hey, look, you know, these are some of

(24:57):
the government's solutions to the cost of limn crisis. For example,
we think here are some areas where the coalition could
go further if we had a stronger act voice.

Speaker 3 (25:07):
Oh you're there, Thomas, Oh yes, yep, are still There're
still yep. And doctor James Lindsay he's an author, he
did cynical theories, he talks about he writes about cultural wars.

Speaker 10 (25:17):
Doesn't he Yes, So he's a he's a special guest.
So you can you know, actors. I suppose in the
post March of Dean kind of environment, AX took up
the AX took up the kind of role of being
the most absolutist, sorry, the most the champion of a
sort of absolutist approach to freedom of speech and and

(25:40):
and that kind of you know, that's that's the stake there,
the political claim to that area. So sort of invited
James Lindsay over as sort of as a as a
guest guest speaker, which I guess shows that they're continuing
to see a lot of political benefit to bring that

(26:00):
particular drum.

Speaker 3 (26:01):
Thomas, thanks so much for joining us this morning. Appreciate it.
It is twenty two to ten. Up next, we're going
to take a look at the early findings that have
been released in regard to the cause of the horrific
India crash. And no one writes true crime like Steve Brownys.
He's with us after ten to talk about is Dynamite
new book on the Philip Pokinghorn trial.

Speaker 1 (26:21):
Yours News talksb SO Sunday Session Full show podcast on
iHeartRadio powered by newstalksb.

Speaker 3 (26:29):
SO Text to mention. Have a look on Facebook at
the Bethny Caravan car park. Sorry, absolutely devastated by the rain. Yes,
so I saw those those pictures just terrible and great
discussion retestment issues. But I'm not hearing anything confirming significant
government support. That was from Neil. Look, Neil, I do
know that the government has sort of kicked into gear

(26:49):
with its temporary accommodation service. They're saying that they're working
together to provide rap aaround support for your social services,
mental health support, financial support another But I think you're
right listening to you know, Kerry talk, it's where do
you start? And I think that's you know, thumbers have
to that they're all sort of stepping up and helping
each other, but thank you for your texts. Right a

(27:11):
preliminary report until last month's ere India crash has raised
more questions around the cause of the crash. The London
bound plane crash within a minute of takeoff, killing all
but one passenger on board. Earlier findings by India's Aircraft
Accident Investigation Breer Bureau show the fuel control switches in
the cockpit had been cut off. So to discuss these

(27:32):
preliminary findings, I'm joined by aviation commentator Irene King. Thanks
for your time this morning. Irene, Good morning. So the
report says that the fuel switches to the engines both
turned off within one second of each other. I think
it's probably pretty obvious what happens when you do that.
But taught me through the impact of those fuel switches
being turned off.

Speaker 11 (27:54):
Yeah, well, it's like you know, starving a body of oxygen.
As soon as that happens, you know it is prettist.
It's not instantaneous, but you know it is. You know,
it is catastrophic. There is no coming back. You can't
flick them back on again.

Speaker 3 (28:14):
Is that the key finding in this report.

Speaker 11 (28:18):
But this is one of the best preliminary reports I've
read for quite some time in the sense that you know,
it gives us some comfort in caution about what, you know,
what the investigation, the final investigations is going to find.
But it also narrows down the issues and they're focusing

(28:40):
on one specific issue. What we don't know is that
you know, whether it's it's the individuals or whether it's
you know, something with the aircraft. But we do know
what what has happened, and that gives us a lot
of confidence, you know, because this is about giving confidence

(29:03):
back into the aviation system that our investigation processes are
working well. So there's sort of multiple objectives going on here,
and but this is this is an excellent scord I Can.

Speaker 3 (29:17):
Those switches flip themselves off or does it need to
be done manually?

Speaker 11 (29:23):
Look, from my understanding is that it's pretty hard to
switch them off, so you know, it's got to be
a conscious effort. Now, what we don't know and there
is some some airwarthiness reports around from going that's a
potentially mechanical So those are the sort of things that

(29:47):
now that this report will be delving down into was
it man induced or was it mechanical? And it can
be either. You know, they haven't gone as far as
saying it's this or it's that.

Speaker 3 (30:01):
There is a cockpit recording of one pilot asking the
other why they've turned it off, and the response was
that he had not turned them off. We don't know
which pilots said what is it? Is it important to
determine which one asked the question as to why it
were switched off.

Speaker 11 (30:15):
Oh, look, I think they're protecting the privacy of the individuals.
I think they will know who said what. They know
who is flying the aircraft. So I'm pretty confident that
they are protecting the privacy and with good reason because

(30:37):
they don't you know, there are there are loved ones
of these pilots as well, and you know, it's pretty
devastating for them if it's one of theirs that has
caused this accident. So they're very cautious.

Speaker 5 (30:54):
With their wording.

Speaker 11 (30:56):
And I say, there's still this question, is it the
man or is it the aircraft?

Speaker 3 (31:01):
Yes? Because is there any reason they would be turned
off at any point in the flight? No, okay, and
then powering back up. How long does it take for them.

Speaker 11 (31:15):
Like I say, it's not you know, it's not a
deep breath it is a process of you know, getting
the feelback into the engine and in the phase of
flight that they were in, you know, they were pulling
through a lot of fuel because you know, they were
ramping up the flight they were taking off, and yeah,

(31:36):
extremely challenging.

Speaker 3 (31:38):
Was there anything else in the report that gives us
a clue as to what happened that day?

Speaker 11 (31:43):
Well, I think it's quite good in terms of sequence.
You know, it should give people a lot of confidence
in the aviation system itself. You know, like, for example,
we know that the pilots were not fatigued. We know
that they were drugging alcohol test, which is again quite unusual,

(32:05):
must be something that the needs require prior to departure,
and that they both tested negative to that. So there
are a lot of things in this report that should
give confidence back in the aviation system. Because when you
have something like this happened and you know it's now,

(32:26):
it's videotape and it comes instantaneously into your own it
is pretty shattering for everyone. And so this is about confidence.

Speaker 6 (32:37):
Right.

Speaker 3 (32:38):
So, even though we've got a lot still to learn
about what might have happened with the fuel switches, we
are it is most likely that they are the reason
that that is the reason why the plane came down.

Speaker 11 (32:53):
Look, the investigation is still ongoing. Yeah, and I think
what we can say is that they are pursuing one
course of investigation. They've got the switches, you know, they
know they've got the switcher, so they know sort of

(33:13):
what happened, and so they will be giving them a
lot of again confidence to go down this particular path
and dismiss others. But like I say, there's still this
question mark was it man or was it the aircraft?

Speaker 3 (33:32):
Irene King, Thanks so much for your time this morning,
appreciate it. It is twelve to ten.

Speaker 1 (33:37):
Putting the tough questions to the newspakers the mic asking breakfast.

Speaker 3 (33:41):
It looks like Doc is going to do a U
turnover those lizards.

Speaker 12 (33:44):
They initially told mccray's mine in Central Otago no, they
couldn't expand ten thousand lizards might die. But then after
media attention yesterday, they've taken another look at the application.
Some of Paultucke is the conservation minister and with us
is it going to be a yes.

Speaker 13 (33:56):
Well, that's the matter that Doc and Oceana worked on
at a very productive meeting. I expect that they're going
to progress that application very swiftly.

Speaker 3 (34:03):
Did you tell Doc to have another look at it?

Speaker 13 (34:05):
I found out this matter, and I've said to Dot
what has happened here?

Speaker 5 (34:08):
Bove admitted that and fished up. There was a miscommunication.

Speaker 13 (34:11):
They weren't clear about information requirements and they declined it
too quickly.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
Hither duplusy Ellen on the mic asking breakfast back tomorrow
at six am with the land Rover Discovery.

Speaker 2 (34:22):
On News Talks d B, Relax, it's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
It's a Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great breeds.

Speaker 14 (34:31):
News Talks EDB.

Speaker 3 (34:46):
I'm at a full hair by Coin. This is their
live performance from Live Aid, because today mark's forty years
since Live Aid was held on the thirteenth of July
nineteen eighty five. I think my producers just playing this
to make me feel very old. I do remember Live
a gosh. It was exciting. I mean I was just
a kid, of course. It was aimed at raising funds

(35:07):
for Ethiopian famine relief. Star started lineup Queen Madonna, Paul McCartney,
David Bowie led Zeppelin. They performed to crowds on both
sides of the Atlantic. It was gosh, it was just huge,
wasn't it. We all stopped and watched that. Thanks for
the feedback. Read the farmers and Nelson Tasman and where
do you start. You just need to pick one job,

(35:28):
just one, and do that first. Being a west coast
that has been through many big flooded events, these things
would be my priorities. Access. Fix your road in your
driveway first. That's if your house is okay. If you
can't move, you can't do anything, so access is a priority.
Once you've done that, just pick another job, whether it's
stock or fencing or electricity. To do one job at
a time until you can't, then do the next. You'll

(35:49):
get there and during this time you'll formulate a plan.
Just keep going. That's all you can do. So's some
encouragement there. Thank you very much for that. Regarding the electricity,
desperately need to get building more hydrogeneration. Really look at
thekluth of the river at Beaumont and at Pisa one
texta rights can't allow the Greens to hold the country
to ransom. Our children's future is being jeopardized. Thank you,

(36:10):
Arthur and someone's making the point that there's heaps of
capacity for the energy companies in North Island gs thermal
power stations, but the companies can't afford to drill the
new wells to supply them. So why isn't the government
helping to fund us? Why is solar and wind such
a focus? So thank you for that? And look how
I listen to us.

Speaker 13 (36:26):
They go down the left hand line.

Speaker 3 (36:27):
What happened there?

Speaker 14 (36:28):
Can right?

Speaker 8 (36:29):
God sneakes away from outside the twenty two and the
All Blacks for the first of the night, they're on
the rampage, the Black pack surging for the lie. They
are right, Yeah, the back top pad.

Speaker 15 (36:43):
Left my horn the dry.

Speaker 3 (36:46):
Oh, and there were some sneaky little moves, wasn't there.
Wasn't that a great first half from the All Blacks
who be at France forty three seventeen. They came out,
they have fantastic pace, They seemed to be in a
good rhythm. They had the sneaky little moves, they were precise.
Second half everything but patchy didn't it. But you know what,
I'll take that first half and how good to see

(37:07):
Ardie Savier in his rightful place as captain. I know
probably quite a controversial thing to say, but he led
from the front and he was absolutely brilliant, and I
was very pleased to see that he had an outing
in his rightful place as captain. It is six to ten.

Speaker 1 (37:24):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News Talks ATB.

Speaker 3 (37:31):
So I really didn't want to read or hear more
about Philip Pokinghorn and his trial, but I never walked
past a Steve Braunius book, and all it took was
a couple of pages, and I was totally hooked hulking Horn.
The book provides a unique and fascinating insight into what
he calls the trial of the century, the characters involved.
He details a lunch with Madison Ashton and a bizarre

(37:53):
and revealing encounter with the man at the center of
this trial. So Steve Braunius is with us. Next, you're
going to finish with a little bit of Justin Bieber.
He's released a new album. It's called Swag, first in
four years. Critics haven't been bowled over. Gaidion gave it
three stars. They said it had moments of brilliance, but
it's no long awaited masterpiece. You make up your own mind.

(38:13):
This is one of the singles offered. This is Daisies back.
Surely you have you have your health, you have.

Speaker 16 (38:39):
A way healthy, You're happy, you're working, see it telling indeed,
so many days the legacy you're working.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Whig
Girls for the best selection of great reads used.

Speaker 3 (39:35):
Good morning, you're with a Sunday Session. I'm fran Chester
Bacco'm with you until the day. Good to have you
with us at seven past ten.

Speaker 9 (39:41):
Right.

Speaker 3 (39:42):
It was a trial that gripped the nation. The death
of Pauline Hannah and her rem you were a home,
the rest of her husband I surgeon Philip Pulkinghorn, and
his trial and acquittal that became one of the most
high profile in New Zealand's history, not only focusing on
Pauline's death, but one that uncovered scandalous revelations of myth
and sex and money. Journalist and true crime author Steve

(40:03):
Braunius followed the case throughout his new books called Polkinghorn.
Steve Braunius is with me now, good morning, good morning,
so good to see you. Last time you were in
a studio with me, you announced that you were finished
with writing true crime. You said to me, for Jeska,
it's time to do something more cheerful. What got you
back into the High Court?

Speaker 17 (40:23):
This is more cheerful. Weirdly enough, it's the murder trial
which seemed to cheer a nation at the time, the
Polkinghorn murder trial.

Speaker 3 (40:34):
But interestingly, you weren't hugely interested in this case before
the trial.

Speaker 17 (40:40):
No, not really. I was aware that other people were
in the Herald newsroom in particular, and I was aware
that it was probably going to be fairly high profile,
but otherwise I hadn't taken much notice of it. And indeed,
when I arrived, I thought, oh, you know, I'll write

(41:02):
about it for a couple of days and then head towards,
you know, some sort of more optimistic journalism.

Speaker 3 (41:10):
So what was it about it that grabbed you? Why
did you stay?

Speaker 5 (41:14):
Yeah?

Speaker 17 (41:15):
It took me by surprise, it was. It was just
so ridiculously interesting.

Speaker 13 (41:24):
You know.

Speaker 17 (41:26):
The terrible truth about a lot of murder trials is
that for a large part of them, they're quite boring.
They wrote the generic, they are exactly what you expect,
and this one was not. This one was based on
an incredible premise that Philip Pulkinghorn had not only killed

(41:50):
his wife in their beautiful home and remy weara above
Oraqi lagoon, but that he had staged to death to
look like a suicide in the most detailed and appalling ways.
He was also arrested and pleaded guilty very reluctantly to

(42:14):
possession of meth amphetamine. All the sort of conduct coming
from a very respected would seem to be very very
good eye surgeon was just so captivating. And you know,
I looked upon it as a kind of a portrait

(42:34):
of Auckland as well as the central drama and central
mystery of was Pauline Hannah killed or had she died
by suicide?

Speaker 3 (42:49):
Have you ever seen a trial like this?

Speaker 17 (42:51):
No, nothing, nothing remotely like it. I was kind of
suspicious of it in a way, Francesca, and as much
I thought, oh, you know, for a little while, I thought, oh,
this is just a media beat up. You know, deaths, owls.
Are we just going crazy? And then every now and then,

(43:11):
you know, a prosecutor or someone from the defense team
would turn to me and you know, at recess over
a cup of tea and go God a mighty never
had anything like this before have you, And it's like
everyone everyone was experiencing the same thing. There was nothing,
there was nothing standard about it. There never will be

(43:33):
anything like this again. I don't think.

Speaker 3 (43:36):
I want to say now that about halfway through the
book you kind of pause and you acknowledge that for
all the drugs and the sex and the scandals, a woman,
Pauline Hannah had died. A life was lost, and it
felt like sometimes that was forgotten.

Speaker 17 (43:52):
Yes, that's right. Pauline was the sort of absent figure
in this and this trial and that it was you know,
polking On had like main character energy, but it was
only there really, and it only existed for the crown
and the police to seek justice for Pauline Hannah, who

(44:14):
I would really have liked to have met. I'll tell
you that she just seemed super funny, very warm, very
smart to her. The list of the authors that she
wanted to read that she you know, did one of
her last searches that the police found was like, Wow,
that's unusual to be wanting to read the works of

(44:37):
Zola flow Bear, Martin Amos, Julian Barnes. I was thought
she I would have loved to have met her and
sat down over a veno and had a conversation with her.
She seemed like a lovely person.

Speaker 3 (44:53):
What was the police investigation sound, Steve.

Speaker 17 (44:58):
You should ask that, and I am critical of that
in the book, and during the trial I was as well, oh,
it's hard to know what else they could have done
there with some pretty obvious defects. But you know, they

(45:22):
were right, of course, I think to you know, put
the charges to Polkinghorn and to bring this to trial.
I mean, the basic thing of it, Francesca, is that
horse sense tells you that the Crown were right. It

(45:47):
was a particularly good closing address by Alicia McClintock, the
Crown prosecutor, and which she thought she just added it
all up, and horse sense said she is correct. However,
the fact said otherwise. So it was common sense versus
versus evidence, and evidence was sorely lacking. And when the

(46:13):
defense called their own two expert witnesses in the form
of two forensic pathologists, they were so plausible that this
was not death by homicide. And you felt long before
the verdict that the trial was over.

Speaker 3 (46:35):
It's interesting you say that because you felt I sort
of felt that with the people that I spoke to.
I think initially the public was very swayed by the
nature of the stories, you know, But then, as you say,
when the pathology came out and the evidence was presented,
it kind of threw a lot into question.

Speaker 17 (46:52):
Yes, it didn't it. They had a great story, They
had this awful word, a great narrative. You know, he
had killed her to be with the woman of his dreams,
a sex worker called Madison Ashton, with whom he had
formed a de facto relationship, and so it was kind

(47:16):
of like the oldest motive in the book. He'd killed
for love, and he'd also had this prolific enjoyment of
sex workers, which you know, of course, only added to
the bizarreness and of the of the trial story for

(47:37):
journalists and for the public too. But all that seemed
to be a grand and spectacular side show what seemed
to be and that you know, even if you were
like really really steadfast in thinking that he had that

(47:59):
she had been killed, even if you really really believed
it with every fiber, and you low this person who
did have loathsome aspects to his personality, Why is it
then that the forensics, the pathology of it, we're all

(48:21):
pointing pretty much one way that she had died by suicide.

Speaker 3 (48:29):
Took me about the last chapter in the book. Was
it you that visited doctor Polkinghorn's home.

Speaker 17 (48:36):
I have been to his home, but that there's a
last chapter in the book which I don't want.

Speaker 3 (48:42):
To give too much away because it's absolutely stunning.

Speaker 17 (48:45):
Oh yeah, yeah, the last I won't say too much
of that case either, but yeah, the last chapter in
the book is an encounter with phil and I call
him that diminutive, that jolly affectionate name, because I did
like him. We spent quite a bit of time chatting

(49:06):
mainly small talk during the trial I'm not entirely small talk,
and kept in touch to a small degree. After the trial.

Speaker 3 (49:16):
You had the opportunity to have lunch with Medicine Ashton.
What did you make of her?

Speaker 17 (49:21):
Oh? Yeah, Madison Ashton really the most vivid person in
the entire story, and would have been the most vivid
witness Phillips are Moore chose not to come to trial
because she felt the police disrespected her, and she'd probably

(49:42):
very good reasons to think that. But what did I
think of her? I thought she was adorable, She was
extremely smart, you know, I was kind of nervous meeting
her because you wanted to go, well, you want to
you want to conduct a good and insightful interview. And

(50:06):
it's almost not till afterwards that the pressure is off
as a professional, you know, journalist or author, that you
reflect on how intelligent she was, you know, when you
look at the I looked at the transcript of the interview,
and she speaks better than most people write these perfectly

(50:32):
formed sentences and very funny. But she's a complicated person
as well, and she had been caught up with you know,
she hates Phil. She does not share my good cheer
towards him. She hates him and she thinks that he

(50:54):
should have been found guilty. But yeah, she lived through
an extraordinary chapter really in not just sort of New
Zealand criminal history, but our New Zealand's social history.

Speaker 3 (51:12):
Will you be reading Dr Pokinhorn's book, his own book
about this trial, apparently writing.

Speaker 17 (51:19):
I probably will. I'll yeah, good luck to him. Really,
he's you know, as we now know through the dogged
reporting of Shane Curry at The Herald, he's taking a
writing class and he needs it. I have seen a
chapter and it's kind of dense and unreadable. But you know,
he's got a hell of a story to tell. So yeah,

(51:42):
I will be reading it. I will be almost certainly
watching the I think there's a new installment of the
documentary right coming up this week. And yet, you know,
you know, I don't sort of leap to read the
latest development post trial on the Philip Polkinhor story. I'm not.

(52:07):
I don't feel sort of obsessed about it. I you know,
I don't feel like I'm I don't feel driven to
be a voyeur on every single development in the strange
life of Philip Polkinghorn. And yet, of course you know

(52:30):
it was my it was really my entire life, to
tell you the truth, Francesca. For the months of the
trial and the months afterwards when I wrote the book,
I dreamed it, I talked about it incessantly. I thought
about it all the time, all the time. I don't drive,

(52:52):
so I am I basically live on a bus, and
I can easily remember all these times are sitting on
a bus, this passenger on a bus quietly thinking about
Philip Polkinghorn.

Speaker 3 (53:07):
You mentioned in the book that you've got no real
idea whether Dr Polkinhorn killed his wife. Is that still
the case.

Speaker 17 (53:18):
Yes, it is still the case, and I felt I
felt kind of disappointed in myself that I should be
able to come up with some declarative answer and some
big confident announcement, but I'm not. I always was sort
of open about it, you know, before the trial, during it,

(53:39):
and after and remain so. You know, there was that
three part documentary series which aired last year, which I
thought was kind of predictable and as much it's it's
it's it's motivating idea was to question the verdict and.

Speaker 18 (54:05):
You know, to.

Speaker 17 (54:10):
To pile it on really and to basically presented him
as guilty, which I thought was kind of predictable and
a little bit easy. It's a really well made documentary.
I shouldn't be so critical of it. It's really well made.
It's really well crafted. It's got incredible interviews with Madison
Ashton and Polkinghorn before the trial began. It's a really

(54:31):
good piece of work. But this whole sort of idea
of a terrible injustice has been done and we must
set out to correct it. I find a little bit
phony and not kind of realistic. It's certainly not what
my book sets out to do.

Speaker 3 (54:51):
Steve thank you so much for stepping back into the
High Court and delivering us another absolutely fabulous true chrime book.

Speaker 17 (54:57):
Really appreciate it well, Thank you so much.

Speaker 3 (55:00):
That was journalist and true crime author Steve Brounius. His
book about the trial and acquittal of Philip Polkinghorn is
in stools this Tuesday. It's something called Polkinghorn and I
forget the coming up after eleven. Author and former soldier
Owen Mulligan is with me to talk about the reality
of being a British soldier in Iraq in two thousand
and six. It's twenty two past ten News talksbra A cover.

Speaker 1 (55:22):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and Wikels for
the best selection of great relies used talk ZEDB.

Speaker 3 (55:29):
Every year, Wikels invites young readers to vote for their
favorite books to help them compile the new wick Cals
Kid's Top Fifty, which is updated every year with the
most popular books of the time. The great thing about
the Kid's Top Fifty is it is thousands of kids
have voted for these books. There's a great chance that
other kids are going to love them too. They're tried
and true and have been tested by some of the

(55:50):
finest young minds in the land. You can take your
kids to any whick Cals store where they can cast
their votes for their three favorite titles, or go online
to Whitkeols dot co dot nz and let them have
their say. The new Kid's Top Fifty will be launched
in September with more great recommendations for young readers with books, toys,
gorgeous stationary puzzles, games and the Wickles Kids Top Fifty.

(56:11):
There really is something for everyone at Wickles.

Speaker 2 (56:15):
The Sunday Session.

Speaker 3 (56:19):
Place your pace. So our Acus fans have gone mad
for their music once again following their reunion, sending the
band to number one in the UK chart. So their

(56:40):
greatest hits compilation Time Flies It's gone back to the
top spot. That's followed by the nineteen ninety five album
What's the Story Morning Glory at number two and at
number four is definitely maybe they're just they could have
done the full sweet But Sabrina Carpenter, I've gotten the
way there at number three, but I don't know. I'm
not surprised. Actually, the more I'm hearing about and the
more I'm saying, oh, I skip back together and because

(57:00):
I have terrible fomo that I'm not going to be
going to the concert. But somebody who has got a
t good to go to the concert in Australia is
Chris Schultz. But he's not going to tell me all
about it because, as I say, I've got fomo.

Speaker 19 (57:10):
But good morning, good morning Francesca.

Speaker 3 (57:13):
Joining us to talk entertainment. Some very good news for
us though. Lord has announced, as we did say here
on the show when everyone got all upset that she'd
announced some tour days but hadn't announced New Zealand, there
was no way that she would miss coming home to
perform her new album. And she is she is.

Speaker 19 (57:29):
Yeah, Unlike Oasis, Lord is coming to New Zealand for
two shows next year. She's playing Spark Arena on February
eleven and Wolfbrook Arena and christ Etch on February thirteen.
They're definite upgrades on her last show here, which was
in the grotty underground toilet of the Pitt Street YMCA,
my old gym a few weeks back.

Speaker 3 (57:47):
If you remember, yes, I have more fond memories of
the Western Springs Gurg that was the last one I saw.

Speaker 19 (57:54):
Yes, Yes, there's one big problem with this tour though,
and you might have noticed a major city missed outs
in that New Zealand's tour isn't getting a show. This
has caused a bit of an issue down here. I'm
down here now. I've already had several conversations with people
mad about this. And it's the second artist this week

(58:14):
actually to do the same thing. Lewis Capodi also announced
the New Zealand tour that included Auckland and christ but
not Wellington. So the big problem here Wellington doesn't have
its own Spark Arena or Wolfbrook Arena. It's got TSB
Bank Arena, which is only about three and a half
to four thousand people, I think, So they're just missing
that venue that holds sort of around the eight to

(58:36):
twelve thousand people mark for any artist that falls into
that category, like Lord, like Lewis Capaldi, they haven't really
got anywhere for them to play. They've got TSB Bank Arena,
or they've got sky Stadium, which is, you know, thirty
five thousand.

Speaker 2 (58:49):
It's a lot bigger.

Speaker 19 (58:52):
Tamoth O Pool, the Century City in Peers on the
warpath about this, She's got plans, she's trying to push
this through. She says this that Wellington's the only Australasian
city that doesn't have a venue of this size. Wellington
desperately needs this. They're going to keep missing out on shows. Unfortunately.
It really sucks being a music fan if you're down here,

(59:14):
especially after Homegrown upsticks after twenty odd years and as
moving to the White Cuttle next year.

Speaker 5 (59:20):
So we just.

Speaker 3 (59:21):
Cannot get our stadiums sorted in this country, can we?

Speaker 2 (59:24):
We really can't.

Speaker 3 (59:25):
We can't.

Speaker 20 (59:26):
Hey.

Speaker 3 (59:26):
Yeah, Jaws, of course turned fifty this year, and there's
a new Disney docco that examines why it's been so enduring.

Speaker 19 (59:33):
This made me feel so old. I wasn't even born
when it came out, but I specifically remember the first
time I saw it. I was sitting on my parents' couch.
I was watching it on their tiny color TV. But
I remember the chills. I remember the impact it had,
And this documentary's all about that. It's about filmmakers who

(59:55):
watched this and were inspired. JJ Abrams, for example, you know,
became a filmmaker because the Jaws. This really examines the
impact this film had the first big summer blockbuster. The
footage of the queues around the block for people lining
up to see this film are extraordinary. I've never seen
anything like it that people just desperate to see it.

(01:00:16):
People when I saw it like ten times, thirty times,
like they just could not get enough of this, this
shark attack movie. The other really great thing this documentary
does it explains how difficult Jaws was to make. Steven
Spielberg was twenty seven. He didn't have the reputation obviously
that he has now, and he had basically a nervous breakdown,

(01:00:39):
and he admits that he had panic attacks for years afterwards.
That went way over budget. The robotic shark that they
made kept breaking down. It was never working.

Speaker 3 (01:00:49):
It was filming very unreliable.

Speaker 2 (01:00:51):
Yes, yeah, I didn't know any of this.

Speaker 5 (01:00:54):
So this was fascinating.

Speaker 3 (01:00:55):
If you don't know the making of it, you've got
to watch it. It is, Oh, it is. It's absolutely fascinating.
There is so much more to the film than just terrifying.
You'd go back in the water.

Speaker 19 (01:01:04):
Hey, we're lucky you got mate, really, Oh.

Speaker 3 (01:01:07):
Totally totally. It'll probably be better if it didn't. I
didn't go on the water for a long time afterwards. Hey,
you've also got a bit caught up with some shows
on Netflix.

Speaker 19 (01:01:16):
Well, it's pretty wild and wintery weather out there. It's
time for a good you know, Netflix binge if it's
raining at your place. Train Wreck is a documentary series
that's been around for a while. They've kicked off with
Woodstock ninety nine. I remember watching that back in Lockdown.
It was about that music festival, really troubled music festival
from the nineties, and then they didn't make any for ages,

(01:01:36):
and suddenly they've dropped eight train Wreck documentaries. Now these
are really short, forty five minute documentaries. They're super addictive.
They are about these pop culture moments that you sort
of remember, You sort of go ah, I've got a
vague recollection of that, and they just take you back there.
So there's one about Rob Stock, the mayor of Mayhem,

(01:01:57):
this Canadian mayor who was drunk and snorting coke and
just doing all this stuff and still getting elected. There's
one about balloon Boy. This this kid which I vaguely
remember this his dad built a spaceship and this kid
purportedly went off and floated around America in this balloon.

(01:02:18):
There's one about American apparel and the Nightmare Boss. But
the highlight more than the deer, depending on which start
of the fence you set on his poop. Cruise This
has been in just a topic of very deep conversation
in our household. We watched it as a family. It's
about a cruise ship that caught on fire and got
stranded in the middle of the ocean and couldn't move,

(01:02:40):
and everyone on board had to start using red plastic
bags to do their business, and they were peeing in
the shower, and they were living on the top deck.
And it's just, I mean, everything's in that title. It's awful.

Speaker 3 (01:02:54):
It's just I love it. Look, we are sort of
middle of the middle of winter, and you do get
to the point where you get a bit desperate and
you watch anything. So there we go. If you're at
that point, I think Chris has given you some really
good inspiration. Thanks so much, Chriss, appreciate it.

Speaker 15 (01:03:08):
Right.

Speaker 3 (01:03:08):
We all know that we should put our phones down
more often than we do, but now scientists have discovered
that allowing our minds to drift into a daydream might
actually help your brain to learn more on this next
it's twenty six to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:03:23):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin on news.

Speaker 2 (01:03:26):
Talks at b.

Speaker 3 (01:03:29):
With her science study of the week. I'm joined by
doctor Micheldeck and sing good morning.

Speaker 21 (01:03:32):
Good morning.

Speaker 3 (01:03:32):
I love a daydream.

Speaker 21 (01:03:34):
I love science. It says that you can be lazy
for it. As soon as I saw this, I'm like,
this is right up my street. Because as a kid
you were told off of staring out the window and daydream.
It's always been a negative.

Speaker 2 (01:03:44):
But no science.

Speaker 3 (01:03:45):
Now it says it's cool. I can sit and look
at the ocean and daydream. That's my happy place, just
sit and look at water.

Speaker 21 (01:03:50):
So if you need the evidence for your boss, or
your teacher general, or your family or your family, Journal
of Neuroscience is where the paper is. And it's really interesting.
I've been in a couple of situations this week where
I've had to sit for periods of time. My son
was in hospital and I was in a waiting room
for seven hours and I looked around. Nobody seems to
be able to be bored anymore. The second people sit,

(01:04:13):
all they do is pull their phone right out and
instantly are trying to do something on their phone. And
back in the olden days before we had these smartphones,
we used to just sit and stare at the walls. Well,
let's go back to the olden days, because it's actually
very good for you let your minds drift into a
daydream because apparently it helps your brain to learn. And
this has been inspired by a whole bunch of previous

(01:04:34):
research that talks about local sleep, and local sleep is
where certain parts of your brain can briefly take a
nap while you are still awake because you're not using them,
and it just allows your brain to process and figure
out what it's done today and sort of store their information.
And so these scientists said, well, let's take that theory
and figure out if daydreaming could actually reflect this brain

(01:04:56):
sleep brain state that dis similar to sleep. So what
they did is they took some volunteers and they made
them do these sort of boring statistical probability tasks. And
these people didn't that they were doing these tests in
a way that they were being assessed. They were just
told sid it's computer and blah blah blah, do this thing.
And they put an eg on their head that monitored
their brain, looked at what parts of their brain were active,

(01:05:18):
what they were doing, and at the end of it.
They were like, Okay, be honest, how was your focus
during that very boring activity? And a whole bunch of
them were like, man, it was so boring. I sort
of like daydreamed and was looking out the window while
I was doing it, and blah blah blah. And the
other was like, no, I was so focused. I was
doing it so well, like I knew I had to
complete this task. And what they found is that those

(01:05:38):
who admitted that they let their mind drift and had
a bit of a daydream, they actually showed improved learning.
And so they not only just performed as well as
the focus group, but when you looked at their eg
their brain activity showed signs of a sleep like state.
Although their eyes were wide open as they were daydreaming,
that part of their brain was sort of processing the

(01:06:00):
thing they were supposed to be doing, but it wasn't
a hard task and shut down and allowed it to
learn at the end of it. These did better in
the test. And so what this research, and is a
growing bit of research around this, it challenges the idea
that focus always equates to better learning. Because we spoke,
we're toldren scoot, you pay attention, focus, don't daydream. But

(01:06:20):
actually what it says is that our brain is always
working even if we're slightly checked out. And so if
you're in a situation where something important doesn't happened. Now,
if you're in a meeting at work, don't do this
if you need to be focused, focused, But if you're
like folding the laundry or waiting at a bus stop
or doing those things, don't pick up your phone. Just

(01:06:41):
put it down. Let your brain do what it needs
to do, and in the long term it's gonna help
you think there and learn more.

Speaker 3 (01:06:48):
This all reminds me of book I read a few
years ago. It's called Rest, and it's all about that
idea that we can actually be a lot more creative
and product productive if we actually learn to play and
stop and rest and things they talk about all the
writers and you know, and and so that's.

Speaker 21 (01:07:03):
Why your best ideas come in the shower.

Speaker 3 (01:07:04):
Thinkers and painters and everybody likes it. Is very very
good at just stopping and resting. Thank you so much,
Michelle day dream to stare at the Monday. I'll attempt
to sort of stay slightly focused until twelve and then
I'll do Then I shall thank you so much. Mike
vander Alison is with us next with tips to spend
less on food and create less food waste. It's twenty tw.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Eleven, The Sunday Session Full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered
by News Talks.

Speaker 3 (01:07:31):
Resident chief Mike vander Alison is with us. Good morning,
Good morning, Hey, congratulations. You have got a new season
of Eat Well for Less coming.

Speaker 22 (01:07:38):
Up coming out season five.

Speaker 3 (01:07:42):
You must be good at what you do.

Speaker 10 (01:07:45):
I don't know.

Speaker 22 (01:07:45):
They just keep ask me back, so I'm like, okay,
I'll do another one.

Speaker 3 (01:07:50):
This season, though, I wonder is it one of the
most timely that you've done in terms of relevance of
the show, because I don't know, foods are still so expensive,
isn't it.

Speaker 2 (01:08:00):
Yeah, I definitely think.

Speaker 22 (01:08:02):
And we'll this season at six episodes. So we're working
with six fo now, and they're all they're all a
lot of them have different different challenges, but it all
comes back to what's in your back pocket and how
much you're spending on food every week really and how
much and how much you're wasting.

Speaker 3 (01:08:19):
Did that come across with the families that you were
working with. Did you did you really notice that the
struggles a little bit more real at the moment.

Speaker 22 (01:08:27):
We probably came across more challenges within the smaller folk
in the family, so that the kids right from the onset,
right from the first family that we filmed with, it
seemed to be the the kids were ruling the roosts.
You know, the kids were doing the shopping and you know,
world sit down and watch the meat, and mom and

(01:08:47):
dad are preparing the delicious meal for themselves of vegetables
and all sorts of goodness within them, and then the
kids are sitting down eating chicken tenders with nothing else.

Speaker 12 (01:08:56):
You know.

Speaker 22 (01:08:56):
It's there was a real divide between what the kids
were eating and the parents had almost in a way
given up over over a period of time.

Speaker 3 (01:09:05):
So how important I mean, that's it's pretty important way
that get our kids involved when it comes to the
family meal, but also eating the family meal.

Speaker 22 (01:09:13):
Right absolutely, And and yeah, they've just fallen into bad habits.

Speaker 3 (01:09:20):
So oh, we all get that. We all understand that
it's to be easy, right, you know, and and it is.

Speaker 22 (01:09:25):
You know, it's it's let's just get another takeaway tonight,
or let's just get another highly processed food tonight, because
it's easy and it keeps everyone keeps everyone happy within
the within the house. But it also that also comes
with its downside.

Speaker 14 (01:09:38):
You know, it's it's.

Speaker 22 (01:09:40):
It's for us. For Gessian, it's about going into these
houses and helping these families not only save some money,
but eat themselves into a bit more of a healthy
way of life.

Speaker 3 (01:09:54):
This year, it's not just about reducing how much the
families are spending, but also about reducing food waste, because
we're not really good at that, aren't we.

Speaker 22 (01:10:01):
It was it was massive in some of them. And
it's funny because in this and this six episodes that
are coming up, which starts I believe starts on Monday. Yes,
we have the biggest we have the biggest spend of all,
like our five seasons, we have the biggest spend. And
if you go back, we've had some big spenders. We've
had people spending over two thousand dollars a week on food.

(01:10:24):
We've smashed that.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
So it's like, my goodness, okay, no judgment intrigued.

Speaker 5 (01:10:32):
I know.

Speaker 22 (01:10:32):
And we've also had the biggest saving so you could
you could only imagine what that could be. And you know,
these we've become real heavily involved within these shows. Within
the within the families and fund now that we're going too,
and you know, we spend a week with them, and
you know, we're with them for a week in their house,
and at the end of it, we kind of feel

(01:10:54):
like we're saying goodbye to another family member. And you know,
we've become really involved and really immerse ourselves within this family.
And hey, it's not all doom and gloom. There's a
lot of fun in there as well.

Speaker 3 (01:11:06):
Give me some quick tips for reducing our food waste.

Speaker 22 (01:11:10):
Super fast, Bobby is.

Speaker 8 (01:11:11):
Number one.

Speaker 22 (01:11:12):
Write a list for what you're going to do or
what you're going to buy, and you going to supermarket.
Number two, don't take the kids with you if you can,
if you can avoid that.

Speaker 5 (01:11:20):
Yep.

Speaker 22 (01:11:21):
Number three, have a planned people, right, get up in
the morning and go right, I'm going to work. Now,
Oh what should I do for dinner? I'll pull out
some mints and so there's that mint sitting in the fringe.
And while you're at work, you got, oh, I've got
that mince out, or maybe I'll make a speakingable and
as instead of getting home going I've got nothing else,
I haven't got anything started, I have no plan.

Speaker 14 (01:11:42):
Let's get takeaways.

Speaker 22 (01:11:43):
Yeah, it's a small thing like that small little second
in the in the morning before you.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
Take off out the door, watch we have for dinner tonight?

Speaker 3 (01:11:53):
Simple ass. Hey, Mike, really looking forward to it. Thanks
so much. The show starts tomorrow on TVNZ and tv
in Z plus. Right, everyone seems to have a cold
or fluid at present, so how do we boost our immunity?
Erin is with us. Next, it's a twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:12:08):
To eleven Sunday with Style, The Sunday Session with Francesca
Rudkin and Winkles for the best selection of great reeds.

Speaker 23 (01:12:17):
Use talks heavy, right, it just feels like everybody sick
at the moment.

Speaker 3 (01:12:29):
Everyone's got a cold or a flu gota or some horrible,
horrible flu or two. Going around. Joining us now is
Aaron O'Hara to talk wellness. Good morning, Good morning. So
you've got some tips to help us boost our immunity
toward off these colds and fliving things. Yes, it's that
time of year.

Speaker 9 (01:12:45):
There's so many bugs around winter, colds and flus, and
this time of year there's actually a reason why we
do get sick more often.

Speaker 3 (01:12:53):
Is there? With the colder air?

Speaker 9 (01:12:55):
There is actually a change within the nose that actually
affects our immune system and how that we are affected
by bugs as well as been inside mores.

Speaker 3 (01:13:04):
So it's a bit of both, bit of both.

Speaker 9 (01:13:07):
So we do have a change in the way our
body's functioning as well, which makes us more susceptible to
getting upper respiratory infections with those colder weather changes as well.
But it's also to do with your immune system, and
that's where some people will pack up lots of bugs,
other people not so much. The average amount of colds
and flus for a child is eight to ten a year,

(01:13:29):
the average for an adult about one to two. But
it really comes down to your immune system and how
your immune system functions and functions and fights off infection
and how it picks it up in the first place.

Speaker 3 (01:13:40):
Because you've got.

Speaker 9 (01:13:40):
Your innate immunity, which is more your first signed defense,
which packs up if you've got any infections that are
there that could potentially then brew into a cold or
a flu. And then you've got adaptive immunity, which really
has that antibody response and actually helps you with once
you do get an infection.

Speaker 3 (01:13:58):
Because I was going to ask you our immunity, can
it prevent us picking upper virus or I mean, if
if we come in contact with the virus and we
get it, so to speak, can it make the severity
of the cough or coal? Let it affect the severity

(01:14:18):
of it? Can if we've got good immunity, can it
mean that it's a gentler.

Speaker 9 (01:14:23):
It's definitely can prevent you from packing up in fiction,
So if you do have a strong immune system, you're
less likely to pack up the infection as well as
if you do have a strong immunity, you'll be quicker
to recover from it too. And that's where our natural
defense system is so important. And that's where your foundation's health,
which we talked about so much over all our weekly times,

(01:14:44):
is making sure we've got the foundations there, which is
we are what we eat, so making sure we're getting
plenty of fruits, vegetables, nuts, seeds in there, eating the
color of the rainbow, variety of antioxidants going into our diet.
Looking at your alcohol consumption, and there's really interesting studies
on this that even moderate drinkers have lower immunity. So
maybe thinking about how much alcohol you have across the winter,

(01:15:07):
sleep always the foundation of your overall health and well being.
If you have less than six hours a night, you
have a much lower immunity, so you're more likely to
pick up infections and take longer to recover from sickness
as well. So if you do pick up an infection,
making sure you're really prioritizing your sleep and stress and
whether it's chronic stress or acute stress. Even teenagers worth

(01:15:30):
exams coming up. You know your immunity will drop when
you do have that acute stress of even an exam,
and so making sure you're really looking after yourself when
you know your stress is higher, making sure you're managing
the stress so you can adapt to the stress better,
and how to boost your immune system through those more
stressful times. So that's really your foundations as well as

(01:15:53):
your exercise super important.

Speaker 3 (01:15:55):
But we can do things.

Speaker 9 (01:15:56):
That actually just boost our health over the winter as well,
and it's not taking one hundred supplements, but keep it simple.
Vitamin D super important for immune system function, always drops
naturally over the winter because it's known as the sunshine vitamin.
We absorb a lot through our skin. As well as
looking at whether you put in medicinal mushrooms, which I'm
not talking about magic mushrooms of having.

Speaker 3 (01:16:18):
A high foraged mushrooms, No, none of that.

Speaker 9 (01:16:21):
We're looking at medicinal mushrooms like turkey tail, rashi and
quarter sets, which are amazing immune boosters, so they are
actually going to help you have a strong immune system
so you're less likely you get sick. And then if
you do get sick, that's when you really want to
make sure supporting your body, having the vitamin C, any herbs.

(01:16:41):
If you've got any congestion, maybe looking at nac zinc
in quersortin as well.

Speaker 3 (01:16:46):
Thank you so much, erin appreciate it. It is six to.

Speaker 1 (01:16:49):
Eleven the Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered
by News Talks.

Speaker 5 (01:16:55):
At b.

Speaker 3 (01:16:58):
Right time for some monthed and sums to finish the art.
Mars Monthford is married to actress Carry Mulligan and up
next to your brother Owen Mulligan is with us, but
his story is a long way from the entertainment world.
As a young man, he joined the Territorial Army as
a distraction to his career as a teacher. Apparently wasn't
very good teacher. Next thing you know, age twenty three,
he finds himself in Centaurre Iraq as an officer to

(01:17:20):
spend six months in Basra. It is a hell of
a tale, brilliantly told with humor and humanity. Owen Mulligan
is with me next.

Speaker 2 (01:18:06):
Well, it's Sunday. You know what that means.

Speaker 1 (01:18:16):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wickles for
the Best Election of Great Reeds US Talk Sep.

Speaker 3 (01:18:30):
Coming up this hour on the Sunday Session, Jason Pine
on the All Blacks performance last night, Megan winds and
dines her way around Santa Monica, and Joan has the
latest thriller from Karen.

Speaker 2 (01:18:41):
Slaughter the Sunday Session.

Speaker 3 (01:18:45):
So Former British Army troop leader Owen Mulligan describes his
time in the Army as a hobby that got out
of control. A teacher by trade, Owen joined the Territorial
Army as an outlet and something to do on the weekends.
Little did he know the training would lead him to Iraq,
not just as a soldier, but leading a fighting troop.
Oh and kept a diary during his seven months in Iraq.
He's now turned those writings into a book. Accidental Soldier,

(01:19:07):
and Owen Mulligan joins me now from the UK. Good morning,
Good morning, Okay, So why did you join the Territorial Army.

Speaker 18 (01:19:16):
That's a good question, that's a really good question. Why
do young men do lots of things? I think testosterone
had a lot to do with it, kind of wanderlust
had a lot to do with it, wanting to do
something a bit different from you know, just sitting in
an office or as I was kind of working as
a teacher. I think probably you know, impressing girls may
have had something to do with it. What it definitely

(01:19:36):
wasn't was it kind of a deep innate calling for
being in the military, or a kind of deep sense
of belief in queen and country. So it complicated a
set of reasons, but non non very noble ones, I'm afraid.

Speaker 3 (01:19:48):
So then, did you have any idea where this journey
might lead you?

Speaker 18 (01:19:54):
Kind of? I think by that point I was in
the TA in kind of two thousand. I joined by
two thousand and three, so I think the writing was
on the wall in terms of, you know, it was
going to be an Iraq and Afghanistan kind of focused
ten years. I never really anticipated ending up doing the
job I did in Iraq, So being a troop leader
and kind of running a troop of professional soldiers. I
thought maybe there was an edge chance that I might

(01:20:15):
get deployed to a headquarters somewhere or some kind of
liaison job. I certainly never expected the streets of Basra
in kind of you know, two thousand and six, when
things were starting to spin out a bit, you.

Speaker 3 (01:20:26):
End up volunteering for a seven month tour to Iraq.
You're twenty three. I was a little taken back at
how little experience you really needed to do that.

Speaker 18 (01:20:36):
I mean, the Army was running super hot at the time,
or the British Army was anyway, So we had we'd
been in Iraq for a couple of years, we'd just
gone into Helmand kind of looking for a new adventure.
So really it was a case of kind of scraping
the barrel. I think nowadays, or almost at any point
since then, it probably wouldn't have been allowed, because, as
you say, I was kind of very very inexperienced. I've

(01:20:58):
done about a month at Sandhurst, a few kind of
weekend exercises, but yeah, they were they were they were
really hot, hurting for manpower at that point. So I
think I was the best of what was left.

Speaker 3 (01:21:08):
So really was it a month's training.

Speaker 18 (01:21:10):
It's kind of formalized training at Sandhurst, yeah, which is
kind of where we train our officers. I had about
a month there, and then post post call up, I
had about three months in Germany with my unit doing
kind of what they call pre deployment training, which is
actually I mean, it's excellent. The Army's very method in
terms of how they train you. So if they think

(01:21:31):
that you're going to get set on fire in a
riot in Basra, they'll set you on fire in a
car park in Germany, getting you ready for that. If
they think you'll get beaten up, they'll beat you up
in Germany. So you know, that training was excellent and
kind of really got my head into the game. But
before that, yeah, it's been about about a month and
then a few kind of weekends here and there.

Speaker 3 (01:21:49):
You were made through troop leader. You're going to be
leading a fighting troop. What was your reaction to that?

Speaker 18 (01:21:54):
I think, as I write in the book, my scoadron
leader was you had a big grin all over his
face when he told me I was going to be
a trupe leader, because it's what people join the army
to do. I was very aware of my lack of experience,
and my immediate reaction was to try not to be
sick all over myself through nerves. I was very lucky
in the sense that my soldiers, as lots of soldiers
are almost all of them, in fact, are really good

(01:22:16):
at kind of getting on board with the idea that
they will at some point have a really inexperienced officer,
because the army is kind of like an apprenticeship, you know,
we need senior officers at some point. They need to
kind of learn what they're doing, so nervitably, there are
going to be cases where soldiers are several operations with
inexperienced officers who kind of learn on the job. And
the guys were great at kind of getting on board

(01:22:37):
with that. I think, you know, if I was them,
and I've had to bite my tongue more than once
when I gave some of my more lunatic orders, but
they were unbelievable in terms of just letting me learn
the ropes as we went along, guiding me a lot
of them a lot more experience than me, and just
really you know, making sure that I got my head
into the job as quickly as.

Speaker 3 (01:22:55):
Possible you arrive in Bezra. What is it like hitting
out as a camp for the first time.

Speaker 18 (01:23:00):
So the first time you head out, you're absolutely terrified,
and the reason for that is that, you know, obviously,
all of your pre deployment training the limited amount of
time to kind of teach you everything you need to know.
So every time you go out of the gate in training,
it's carnage, like people are getting blown up, people are dying,
you know, they're kind of squirting fake blood all over you.
There's you know, vehicles on fire, all that kind of stuff.

(01:23:21):
So the first time you go out of the gate
for real in Iraq, you're kind of almost assuming that's
what it's going to be like on the streets, and
it takes you a few patrols to realize that, you know, actually,
you know, you might be in your your snatch Landrover
or your armored vehicle, but around you kind of ninety
nine point nine recurring percent of people are just people

(01:23:42):
trying to live their lives, you know, go to the shops,
take their kids to school, get the car fixed, you know,
you name it. Just those kind of domestic home drum things.
And it's not necessarily a kind of end to end
un remissing blood bath. Now, occasionally things do go wrong
and you encounter that kind of you zero point one
percent of the population who who are who don't want
you there and making that very clear. But yeah, there's

(01:24:05):
a real difference in your kind of initial sense of
trepidation and what it's actually like when you go on
the ground for the.

Speaker 3 (01:24:10):
First time, the first bombing experience that you have the
mortar attach overnight at the camp, can you describe what
that was like, because it is that moment where it
dawns on you that people are trying to make a
concerted effort to kill you.

Speaker 18 (01:24:23):
Yes, yes, I mean to set the scene. We were
in a kind of porter cabin type building, about eighty
of us. We had been mortared, you know, a fair
bit before, so people had lob rockets and mortars at us,
but it had been fairly kind of ineffective and not
very accurate. This time, I think, you know, in retrospect,
we were probably being mortared by professionals. So they dropped

(01:24:44):
about sixty rounds over the course of ten minutes in
and around this kind of kilometer square camp. You know,
one of those rounds kind of blew the corner off
a building next to ours, and it's like being kind
of trapped on the worst kind of theme park experience ever,
Like it's pitch black every ten seconds as an absolutely
enormous explosion, which you kind of feel almost rather than here.

(01:25:05):
You can hear, you know, people in other buildings kind
of screaming because they've been they've been wounded, and it's horrible.
And you know, part of I think why I found
it maybe a bit harder than perhaps some of my peers,
certainly some of my soldiers, is that I had, you know,
up to that point, had an unbelievably sheltered life, like
any think I say in the book, Like, you know,
everyone has just spent twenty years telling me what a

(01:25:27):
precious little flower I am and how well I'm doing
at school and university and all that kind of stuff.
So when someone actually really tries very hard to kill you,
you're just not used to the idea that anyone would
kind of take against you as it were. You know,
you think you're a reasonable person. You've gone on with
everyone you've ever met, and here's this personal people dropping
quite a lot of waters on you. So in amongst

(01:25:47):
the kind of the prime wal fear. There's a real
kind of I had a real reset of my expectations
of life in the universe that you know, no one
was going to stop it and say, actually, you're a
good lad, you don't deserve this, and they were going
to try and try and push it as far as
they could until I was killed.

Speaker 3 (01:26:03):
Do you ever get used to it?

Speaker 18 (01:26:05):
You do get I mean I do that kind of
intensity of barrage. I think you would struggle, and I'm
sure people did in you know, World War two and
World War One, which kind of put what we did,
you know, really pales into comparison. I think you can
get used to you you build up a bit of
a shell where actually you kind of realize that, you know,
once that's happened, once you've been shot at, once you've

(01:26:27):
just seen you know, people rioting that actually people do
want to hurt you, and it's not you know, necessarily
you can't be Michelle Pfeiffer in kind of Dangerous Minds
and just you know, talk to everyone and talk them
all around like some people just do not want you
there and and they want to hurt you. So you
kind of get used to that. I don't think you
ever really get used to being kind of properly mortared
or properly rocketed. I think that's that's a bit much.

Speaker 3 (01:26:51):
You talk about the fear and how you've never felt
fear like it, and I'm sure that one of those
moments that was very difficult for you was a very
tense time, was when you accidentally drove your troops into
the minefield's bringing there. App No, it wasn't a good
day at the office.

Speaker 18 (01:27:10):
It wasn't a good day at the office. It didn't
didn't make me look good to the boys or in
d to my boss. Yeah, you know, I was taking
a shortcut. It's something the army tells you never ever
to do. Always follow the proven route, they drill into you.
You kind of wonder at the time, why are they
really going at me about this kind of concept of
following the proven route and making sure you know where
you're going. And then eventually, you know, a few years later,

(01:27:32):
you find yourself reversing out of minefield very slowly with
the pressure plate on an anti tank mind going between
the wheels of your land rover, and you realize why
they were making such a big deal out of it.
So yeah, you know, that's a kind of different fear.
That is, one that's a bit more kind of icy
cold as opposed to kind of visceral. It's layered on
with the realization that you're the one who took the soldiers,

(01:27:54):
or you took your troop into the minefield. So if
you do hit a landmine, you know, not only have
you got some you know, not only have your soldiers
been hurt, but it's on you, which which adds an
extra kind of little free song to the to the experience.
But yes, you know, it taught me a lesson. I
never did that again, and that was the first and
last mindfield I've ever driven into.

Speaker 3 (01:28:14):
You paint a picture of the timing everything from laughs
to boredom to tira to adrenaline pumping moments. Is that
the reality?

Speaker 18 (01:28:23):
That's yeah, I mean, that's kind of it. And what's
been lovely is I've had quite a lot of feedback
from you know, people, other soldiers from different time periods,
but certainly people on that tour who have said that
they've not read books before that have kind of captured
how you go from hilarity to tragedy to you know,
sometimes hilarity again. In the space of a few minutes,

(01:28:45):
so you can be as you know, we were at
one point handing a convoy over to some Italians, swapping
kind of ration packs with them, you know, drinking their
kind of red wine that they get in their ration packs.
You know, the boys are chatting up one of their medics,
they're practicing Italian accents. It's all kind of super convivial.
You know, everyone's having a great time. You kind of

(01:29:06):
get back into your vehicle with a smile on your
face and everyone's kind of bantering about the experience. And
then half an hour later, someone comes over the radio
and says, you know, those Italians you just had it
become way over to when half an hour down the
road they've been blown up and they've had multiple casualties
and one of them is now dead. And that's just
how operations are.

Speaker 5 (01:29:26):
You know.

Speaker 18 (01:29:26):
You can be sitting in your tent watching Glee and
someone sticks the head in and tells you that a
helicopter's gone down in the middle of Maajra City, and
you know you're probably going in that kind of juxtaposition
and going from laughing out loud to crying. You know,
sometimes it's just the nature, I think of probably quite
a lot of warfare, but certainly that's.

Speaker 3 (01:29:45):
All because that's the experience of reading the book as well.
I mean, I was laughing out loud. You're write beautifully
and you've got a great sense of humor, and I'd
be laughing out loud, and then I feel very uncomfortable
about it, because you know, in the nixt minute you're
not laughing out loud that you understand the gravity of
what you're talking about. But I did wonder whether at
times it did feel like you were in a black comedy.

Speaker 18 (01:30:05):
Yeah, I mean, does it felt like you know, The
Army in many senses is a very long running sitcom
that just has some kind of you know, gut punch
moments and soldiers. You know, my soldiers used a lot
of black humor to cope with some of the things
that they kind of saw and went through. And it really,
you know, it's quite effective coping methods, particularly when you're

(01:30:28):
doing it with people who shared that experience with you,
and it kind of you know, it's no substitute I
think for proper talking and therapy and you know, other
kinds of treatment. When you get home if you've been
exposed to really bad stuff, but in the moment, it
can really take the edge off some fairly fairly horrible moments.
So I think, you know, there's a reason why people
soldiers and I'm sure members of the emergency services, you know,

(01:30:51):
other kind of folks like that, do default to joking
about things that otherwise you would cry about.

Speaker 3 (01:30:57):
Oh and when you return to the UK from Bezra,
how different was the general public's perception of Iraq and
what was happening there compared to your experience.

Speaker 5 (01:31:06):
I think I.

Speaker 18 (01:31:06):
Think people were, I mean understandably not that kind of
switched on to it. I think it was pretty clear
by that point. You know, if it had ever been
a kind of a conflict or a war in the
national interest, it certainly wasn't. Now there were no wnds,
you know, it was a little bit unclear what it
was that we were still doing there. Afghanistan had kind

(01:31:26):
of kicked off in earnest, so the Parashy regimen were
out there kind of winning medals and getting into loads
of firefights. So there was a kind of element of
you know, just being a bit forgotten, but also not
being easy to kind of get too upset about that
because actually you kind of realize what relevance does a
lot of this have to people's lives. You kind of
wish that people knew a bit more about what soldiers
are willing to do for the country, even if not

(01:31:49):
in a cause that anyone can get particularly excited about.
I found it hard to get very kind of, you know,
wound up about people not not caring, because I could
kind of understand why people wouldn't. I just wish maybe
that and part of the reason for writing the book
that people were a bit clued in to what we
asked these young men and women to do to this

(01:32:09):
day and actually now and probably more worthy immediate causes, like,
for example, sitting in Eastern Europe acting as a kind
of forward to Terrance, and what we asked them to
do for not very much in return.

Speaker 3 (01:32:20):
You did another two tours to Afghanistan after Iraq. Did
you ever think that you would make a career out
of this?

Speaker 24 (01:32:27):
No?

Speaker 18 (01:32:28):
No, I was actually, and you can probably get this
from reading the book, not a very good soldier. So
it was kind of like a hobby that got wildly
out of hand and ended up sending me on three
operational tools. There's bits I loved about the Army. I
loved the travel in Afghanistan. I was a linguist, so
I spent eighteen months on a long language course and
then got to use that in theater, worked with and

(01:32:50):
certainly met some Kiwis out there in Afghanistan, where you
guys are very present. But it was never going to
be a career. There's plenty of stuff about the Army that,
you know, structure wise and kind of its slightly pigheaded
refusals to do sensible things sometimes that I don't get
on with. Notwithstanding the fun I had on operations, it
was never really a proper.

Speaker 2 (01:33:11):
Job for me.

Speaker 3 (01:33:12):
So you thought to yourself, management consultant, I'm going to
have a nice, quiet suburban life with my family. That's me.

Speaker 18 (01:33:18):
That is Yeah, there are moments, and you know a
lot of people who kind of write to me about
the book who've been on operations kind of talk about
how they'd never want to go back again ever now.
But they still miss the camaraderie, the kind of simplicity
of life. But there is a lot to be said
for being a management consultant with two children one on
the way and living in kind of North London in

(01:33:39):
terms of having a quiet life. I don't regret anything
I did in the military or joining the military in
the first place, but you know, I realized I was
lucky to get away with it, and it's something that's
good to look back on. Maybe sometimes at the time
was less enjoyable to experience.

Speaker 3 (01:33:55):
Owen Mulligan, thank you very much for your time, and
thank you for the book.

Speaker 18 (01:33:58):
Thank you very much for talking to me.

Speaker 3 (01:34:00):
That was Owen Mulligan. The book was The Accidentalstoldier. It
is in stores in all Proceeds from the in the
UK and the Commonwealth go to the charity War Child
and texts to say, getting properly mortared or properly rocketed.
You never get used to it. It's a bit much
a master of the understatement. Fab interview. Yeah, he really
loved a guy. I really enjoyed talking to him. And

(01:34:21):
as I said, you know, he's Russian. He doesn't really
like talking about this period in his life at all,
but he has done it in order to raise money
for the charity War Child. Up next the panel.

Speaker 2 (01:34:32):
Keep It's Simple, It's Sunday. It's the Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:34:34):
Session with Francesca Rudgater and Wiggles for the best selection
of the Grays News Talks Envy.

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Speaker 1 (01:35:39):
Now all the highs and lows talking the big issues
of the week.

Speaker 2 (01:35:45):
The panel on the Sunday session joining me.

Speaker 3 (01:35:48):
Now I have got senior PR consultant and one plus
one Communications Damien Venuto, good.

Speaker 15 (01:35:52):
Morning, Good morning, Francesca.

Speaker 3 (01:35:55):
Also joined by host of The Prosperity Project, Nadine Higgins. Heinidine, Marina,
good to have you both with us. You are both
journalists and you're in comms and things, and I know
that you've got a little bit of experience when it
comes to how to deal with the media. And after
listening to Ryan Bridge on ZB he was doing Drive

(01:36:15):
on Friday afternoon and he spoke to ra ch Hung
about this email fiasco that kicked off, and I did
think to myself, Ray could do with a little bit
of help when it comes to dealing with the media.
And I also thought to myself, Wellington deserves better from
its counselors. We're over the toxic culture, we're over the
dirty politics, we're over the dysfunction. Any people who can
work together, Damien.

Speaker 15 (01:36:38):
I listened to that interview and I was left wondering
what he thought he could gain by sharing that information.
That was the thing that struck me. I mean, any
piece of information that you share, there has to be
some benefit in you sharing that information if you are
going to try and be strategic with it.

Speaker 2 (01:36:53):
But there was no strategy here.

Speaker 15 (01:36:54):
It was kind of like his role playing a dirty
politician more than anything else.

Speaker 14 (01:36:58):
It's very bizarre, Nadine.

Speaker 3 (01:37:00):
I don't even really care about the email. I was
more interested in how he handled it. And I would
have thought if you'd been talking about it all day
by flog, you would have the messaging tight, succinct and
you'd nail it.

Speaker 20 (01:37:13):
I do care about the email as well as how
he handled it when he'd been allegedly doing media and
been on the phone since for that morning, because doesn't
it just both instances say everything we need to know
about his level of judgment. I mean, is that the
kind of person that you want running the council as mayor?

(01:37:33):
And I think you know media training, sure, but in
some way he's done voters of Wellington a favor by
revealing himself in that interview.

Speaker 3 (01:37:44):
But he didn't really did he. I mean, somebody's timed
the release of this email to have an impact on
his campaign. Not everybody's looking good in this situations that's fair.

Speaker 15 (01:37:57):
Sorry, Danienka, that was absolutely horrible. It's the timing everything.
It's made everyone look bad.

Speaker 3 (01:38:06):
So I'm going to play a little clip and this
is from the end of the interviewer, And this is
an example where I think a little bit of media
training could have come into play. You ever had any
drugs or done on any orgies.

Speaker 18 (01:38:16):
Ray O?

Speaker 5 (01:38:18):
Never? Deadly?

Speaker 18 (01:38:21):
Would you like to have?

Speaker 4 (01:38:23):
Well, the opportunity has never been there, So I've never
been interested in taking drugs, so he hadn't taken of those.

Speaker 3 (01:38:32):
So Damien, how would have you answered that question?

Speaker 15 (01:38:36):
I certainly wouldn't have pause for about thirty seconds before
answering it. I think I would have had a pretty
good response to something like I've never really been interested
in drugs orgies, Thank you very much. I mean, the
fact that he had this pause and that he was uncertain,
it just all feels very weird.

Speaker 3 (01:38:53):
What about you? What were your thoughts in the dean?

Speaker 20 (01:38:56):
I mean, personally, I don't really care whether any merrial
candidate has had an orgy as long as it's consensual.
But I'm sure there are people who do care. And
he should have anticipated that a question like that was
coming because of course he was breathlessly passing on that
unfounded gossip about Tory Farno, so of course someone was
going to ask him that, And so the fact he

(01:39:17):
hadn't thought about how he might respond again, I think's
fixed to his lack of judgment.

Speaker 3 (01:39:22):
Do you think he should quit the race after this
the Dame?

Speaker 20 (01:39:26):
I don't think there's any point, because I'd like to
think that he's given voters all the information they probably
need about whether he's the guy that's going to fix
the pipes or bring me in the city back to life,
will fix any number of Wellington's problems.

Speaker 3 (01:39:41):
What about your thoughts on that, Damon? Do you think
he should quit?

Speaker 14 (01:39:44):
Definitely?

Speaker 15 (01:39:45):
I think that if you want to save any semblance
of a face that he has left, quitting is probably
the most courteous thing that he can do to Wellingtonian's
right now. I don't think that Wellington needs this. I
think that there are some big problems in Wellington that
need to be solved. I think Ray Chung has shown
that he isn't the person you want solving those issues
because he's going to be destroyed did by random gossip

(01:40:07):
that isn't even true.

Speaker 3 (01:40:09):
Guys, I want to move on to an issue which
I think is very timely. And of course we've just
seen such terrible impacts in parts of the country, especially
Tasman Nelson with the weather recently and the floods and things.
And this week we saw an independent reference group that
were set up by the Ministry for the Environment to
provide recommendations to help the government shape climate adaption legislation.

(01:40:32):
And basically they're trying to look at how we deal
with homeowners whose houses are flooded or damaged by weather
events in the future, and how also we you know,
invest in ways in measures to prevent these schemes happening.
And essentially, you know, one person's you know, read this
report and said, well, basically they're saying to New Zealanders,

(01:40:55):
you're on your own, and you know there's going to
be a twenty year transition period. Then homeowners whose houses
are flooded or damaged by weather events should not expect
the buyouts. And also, if you want to put measures
in place to stop flooding in things, those people who
will benefit from it most should pay the most. Sounds
really tough, Damien, but I understand we're in a really
difficult position, we're probably we cannot keep paying out for

(01:41:20):
every flooded property going forward indefinitely.

Speaker 15 (01:41:25):
I think we have to be really careful with anything
like this because it's about where we leave blame. Are
we blaming the homeowner for buying a property in a
certain area, or are we blaming the developers who have
chosen to build on floodplanes or building places that are dangerous.
I mean, that's where the level of blame lies. And
I think that you also have to include local and

(01:41:47):
central government in that because they allow the developers to
build where they build. So if you're putting all the
blame at the end of the line on the home buyer,
I don't think that that's fair because there have been
so many decisions made to get to that point that
then to kind of tell the homeowner that they're on
their own, that they're taking a gamble with buying a
house in the st area, I don't think that's fair

(01:42:07):
at all.

Speaker 3 (01:42:08):
Does it feel a bit harsh to Undine's.

Speaker 20 (01:42:11):
I agree with your franchisca. It's a really tricky one,
and Damien makes a really good point about where does
blame lie, And that's true of anyone who's probably built
or baught a house up until today. But if we
do provide people with sufficient information about where the greatest
risks are and they still decide to build or buy

(01:42:32):
a home in that location, are we really going to
say that that's the taxpayer's responsibility if the inevitable happens
and climate change comes for their property. I think there
has to be a point at which we go. Once
we have the information and we and we have communicated
it to people and they still can't make a logical decision,

(01:42:53):
then perhaps they are on their own.

Speaker 3 (01:42:56):
Thank you both so much. Damien Venuto and Nadine Higgins
joined us today and hey, look, I just want to
give you a bit of an update talking about road information,
talking about terrible weather and flooding and things like that.
That is no access to Nelson via State Highway six
from Merchants and so you need to travel via Kakura
if travel is necessary. There is access for essential travel

(01:43:17):
only between the west coast and blend them through Stite
State Highway sixty three, that is if you were planning
on being on the road. So they're just giving you
an update there. It is twenty five to twelve. We'll
talk some rugby next with Piney.

Speaker 1 (01:43:34):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at b.

Speaker 12 (01:43:39):
If they're feeling down, mag you have a babe.

Speaker 3 (01:43:47):
By side around largest hog, you have a.

Speaker 8 (01:43:55):
We've been doing all this land talking.

Speaker 3 (01:44:00):
Time to talk sport now and I'm joined by a
man who got a lot of airtime and quite a
few steps in last night watching you all blacks, Jason
pine Good morning, Hello there, Francesca. I did notice though
that you would you would lift the microphone to your
mouth and probably only say five words, then put it
down again and get back to enjoying the game. I
could see you're working hard.

Speaker 24 (01:44:19):
Yeah, word economy. Word economy is what I'm working on, Francesca,
do a lot of talking on the radio. They don't
need to hear me on on the radio commentary as well.
Elliot Smith and Ross Bond upstairs doing most of the
heavy lifting as that.

Speaker 3 (01:44:31):
Would you would you just give them a win date
occasionally pretty much?

Speaker 6 (01:44:34):
Yeah?

Speaker 24 (01:44:35):
Yeah, just a sort of temperature check and you know
how it's feeling sidelined.

Speaker 3 (01:44:38):
That was some It was fun.

Speaker 24 (01:44:39):
Actually, I said to have picked up a cold, so
I'm not sure how that's going to play out this afternoon.

Speaker 3 (01:44:44):
But look, it was much better, wasn't it, You know,
much better from their half. First half. We had the pace,
we had the rhythm, we had some sneaky little moves,
we had a lot more precision. You were just going, Okay,
I can sit and watch this second half though it
all kind of got a bit patchy. Yeah it didn't.

Speaker 24 (01:44:59):
When you're twenty nine to three ahead, it's probably a
little bit difficult, isn't it, to keep on going as
if it's ten all or whatever. But yeah, I just
think there was so so much more to like.

Speaker 2 (01:45:07):
And I really think.

Speaker 24 (01:45:09):
You know, and I'll forget this completely in the first
test of next year and the year after. We just
have to be a little bit more realistic about the
first test of a calendar year and what that is
likely to bring. And what I brought last week was
what we probably should have expected. A bit of a
lack of cohesion, some combinations not quite functioning properly. Last night,
As you say that first half, I think that's probably
the best half of football, or one of the best

(01:45:29):
half of football.

Speaker 3 (01:45:30):
Is that under racer. I loved it. I treated myself
to a bowl of ice cream. It was going so well.
I'm having a treat. A couple of things have arisen
though from this game. The first thing is should it
the French brought a stronger team? Are they? You know
we're back to that old question. Yeah, maybe you know

(01:45:50):
you've slightly slap offended that you didn't bring a better team.
And the second thing is, really Addie Sape should just
beat captain?

Speaker 5 (01:45:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 24 (01:45:58):
Well the first one, first look, I think last week
we kind of were lulled into this, into this what
turned out to be a false sense of reality around
this French side, that maybe a B or C team
could compete with the All Blacks. That was bye out
of the water last night, and I fear a little
bit for them. Francisca, I must say ahead of the
third Test in Hamilton, lok, they're not even going to Hamilton,
which the thing's a bit rude to the people of
the tron, but they're not going to Hamilton until I

(01:46:19):
think the Friday. They'll probably have a week in Auckland
doing some you know, diving off the skytower or whatever
they decided to do end of their season.

Speaker 3 (01:46:26):
It could be equally.

Speaker 24 (01:46:27):
Emphatic next week for the All Blacks. Second part of
that look. Artie Savira, I don't think has to wear
the armband to lead. He just leads anyway. You know,
it would be very tough for them to say, Hey,
Scott Barrett, it's been fun, but Artie's going to be
our captain.

Speaker 3 (01:46:41):
No, why no, I'm just being I'm just I'm just
poking the beer. I'm just poking the poney.

Speaker 5 (01:46:45):
You know.

Speaker 3 (01:46:46):
I have a lot of time and respect for Ardie Savia.
That's the only thing. So anyway, Hey, what is coming
up on the show.

Speaker 24 (01:46:52):
We'll get inside of the All Blacks Campussistant coach Timothy
Ellison straight away after midday. Want to take a lot
of calls about what people liked. I tell you else
I thought was terrific last night was Cameroy guard Man.
That guy's a good player. He has such a good
half back for us. Anyway, that's just an observation. We'll
have theirs as well. Black Ferns as well. Had a
good one over Australia in the early game. Their World
Cup squad is named next Friday, we'll i get inside

(01:47:14):
their camp. We've got some softball, We've got some tennis,
We've got other bits and pieces to keep people interested
some live sport as well. So look, I think we'll
fill the three hours.

Speaker 3 (01:47:22):
Okay, I think you will. You look after South Piney
Jason Pine's coming up at midday.

Speaker 1 (01:47:27):
It is eighteen to twelve the Sunday Session Full Show
podcast on iHeartRadio powered by News TALKSB. I think if
you can travel with Wendy Woo tours Where the World
is Yours book now.

Speaker 3 (01:47:41):
Megan Singleton, Good morning, Aune. We are in Santa Monica.
We were talking last week about getting whether you would
get in a draveler's taxi, which we both declared that
didn't really sort of sound like a good idea to
either of us. But there are some really great things
to do in Santa Monica, and two of them are
whining and dining.

Speaker 25 (01:48:00):
Yes, look, it's a great city. It's one of eighty
or more and there's eighty eight cities that make up
Los Angeles, so it is a city. I know, it's
the city in its own right. And I have to say,
you know, we all heard about the fires a few
months back that was around Malibu and stuff. There's absolutely
no evidence of that in Santa Monica at all, So
people shouldn't be concerned that things have changed there whatsoever,

(01:48:22):
And in fact, I found a whole lot of new
and upgraded and new branded hotels there. I actually stayed in.
I've stayed there about a dozen times now, so this
really was an update for me, and I've updated the
blog post on some really great hotels. But what I
also found was nice little spots to eat and drink,
including even the rooftop of the main shopping mall. If

(01:48:46):
people know Santa Monica, they'll know Third Street Fromenade with
the pedestrianized shops for about three blocks and then that's
anchored at the end by Santa Monica Place, and up
there was usually just an old food court, you know,
within our big outdoor patio, and you can see the
sea from there. Well, now there's two or three really
cool restaurants there that are really making the most of

(01:49:08):
that spot. So that's quite cool and affordable. Obviously, you know,
you can go walk along the beautiful main ocean avenue
and I had a beautiful blue cocktail at the Georgian
and the Georgian Hotel has been there since the nineteen
thirties and it's just iconic. And I stayed in a
new one called the Pears Side, which I called it

(01:49:29):
a hidden gem in plain sight because it's literally opposite
the entrance to the pier. But I don't think I've
ever noticed it before. It used to be the holiday
and now it's got this sixth floor mural painted on
the front of it. It looks amazing, and it's just
a block or two from, as I said, the shops,
and just so many other great places for eating and drinking.

Speaker 3 (01:49:50):
So if you were going to recommend a few places,
a few restaurants or bars.

Speaker 25 (01:49:54):
Yeah, well the restaurants. I went to one called Alafonte.
Now that is a hidden gem, and it really is
a hidden gem. My brother told me where it was
and I found it and they do this incredible He said, oh,
you've got to do that eggplant whip.

Speaker 11 (01:50:07):
So I loved it so much.

Speaker 25 (01:50:09):
I got the girl to tell me the ingredients and
then I came home and I've whipped it up and
I've actually put I actually it succeeded. I did an
aubergine whipped recipe and I've put that on the blog too,
so that's a must go there. I had a lobster roll,
amazing lobster roll at the Surfing Fox, which is on
the ground floor of the Pear Side and where else.

(01:50:29):
I had a wonderful cocktail at the Georgian, and then
the Regent, which used to be the Lows on the
beach front, did a really scrummy breakfast right overlooking Muscle Beach.
So that's a bit of a laugh if you want
to shoot out and look at all of.

Speaker 3 (01:50:42):
The mussel MutS on the beach. Is it expensive to
eat and drink?

Speaker 25 (01:50:46):
Yes, well I want to dined out. You know, I
did it a bit cheap, Like one cocktail was sort
of twenty s US dollars plus plus. You know, there's
the tax, there's the tip. The lobster roll was about
twenty twenty five made eggplant dip was about that. You
could go full on and have a steak or an
actual lobster. Everything and in America is expensive. I honestly

(01:51:08):
think you've just got to go to cities like Galveston
if you want to afford a meal.

Speaker 3 (01:51:13):
So save up, save up, and go. Thanks so much
to Megan. I'm not sure what that says about Galveston. Anyway,
you can find Megan Wrights puts all these all this
information into blogs. You can find that at blogger at
large dot com twelve to twelve books.

Speaker 2 (01:51:28):
With wiggles for the best election of Greek Reads.

Speaker 3 (01:51:32):
John McKenzie, good morning, Hello, good to have you with us.
You've got a couple of thrillers in mysteries. Mysteries.

Speaker 26 (01:51:41):
He's got well known names. The first one is by
Lisa Jewell, who many readers may know of. It's called
Don't Let Him In. She's a writer with a number
of best selling thrillers to her name, but the ones
that I've read, I would say tend to be more
domestic thrillers, which is how I described this new one.
And it's the story of a guy named Nick who

(01:52:03):
for about thirty years has assumed a number of different
identities in order to seduce and marry and sometimes murder
women for their money. And now he set his sights
on Nina, whose husband Paddy died prematurely when he fell
under a train, and she's inherited the chain of restaurants
that he owned. So Nick knows that there's an awful
lot of money sloshing around that he might be able

(01:52:24):
to get his hands on, and he's very keen, so
he launches a full on charm offensive and Nina's happy
to have someone pay her some attention after the awful
year that she's had since her husband died. But her
daughter is less impressed and becomes quite suspicious and starts
digging around in his background to see what she can
find out about him, and the stuff that she uncovers
means that she's then desperate to protect her mother. And

(01:52:47):
in a neighboring town not too far away, there's a
woman named Martha who's married with a baby and runs
a florist. But she's busier than she ought to be
because her husband's job takes him away for work for
long periods of time, and he doesn't come home as
much as you think that he should. And I have
to say, she's a bit gullible, and I thought it

(01:53:08):
didn't ask the right questions. But when Nina and Martha's
worlds collide, it is explosive.

Speaker 3 (01:53:14):
Okay, I all right, I just love this term domestic thriller. Well, yeah,
I mean she's a good one.

Speaker 26 (01:53:20):
Leslie Pears in the way that she has very strong
women characters and writes really good narratives around them, and
in this case, they tend to be Yeah, thrillers all mystery.

Speaker 3 (01:53:29):
Okay, that sounds intriguing, And we have a new book
from a crime writer with one of the best names
in the business, Karen Slaughter.

Speaker 26 (01:53:39):
Yeah, great name for a thriller writer. She's best known
for the series she did which features two characters called
Sarah Linton and will Trent. But she's branching out here
and she started a new series which is going by
the name of North Falls, which is apparently a little
town in the state of Georgia where she sets I
think pretty much all of her writing. And in this state,

(01:54:00):
there's a county called Clifford County and the sorry Clifton County,
and the Cliftons are the big people in town, if
you like. And the mayor is a guy called Clifton,
and his daughter is the deputy mayor. Her name's Emmy.
And on the night of a huge Fourth of July
public fireworks display, two teenage girls go missing, and one

(01:54:22):
of them is the daughter of Emmy's best friend, and
so she's determined to find the girls. But of course
what happens when she starts digging into all of this
is that there's a role call of really bad people,
and you get reminded that even in small towns there
are all sorts of secrets and underground stuff going on
and lies and all of that's great. And to help
her in all of this, a retired FBI agent turns up,

(01:54:44):
who it turns out, also has something to do with
the Cliftons of Clifton County. So it's lots of intrigue,
lots of lies, lots of secrets.

Speaker 3 (01:54:51):
It's really good. I love small towns, yeah, dramas and
thrillers because they are interesting places and there's lots of
people there with hidden secrets, but on the surface.

Speaker 26 (01:55:01):
They all know one another really well, and it's all
very civilized and it's not Tilly Starts.

Speaker 3 (01:55:06):
Great in a way. Small towns in big urban areas
are perfect for the crime thrillers, and it actually they
seem to be most of the settings. You either have
that gritty sort of urban crime thriller or you have.

Speaker 26 (01:55:17):
That small small town everybody knows everybody else, but.

Speaker 3 (01:55:21):
They're all hiding something.

Speaker 12 (01:55:23):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:55:23):
Okay, two great recommendations here, Don't Let Him In by
Less Jewel and We Are All Guilty here by Karen Slaughter,
both very good titles. We'll talk next week.

Speaker 17 (01:55:34):
See you then.

Speaker 1 (01:55:35):
The Sunday Session full show podcast on my Heart Radio
powered my News Talks.

Speaker 3 (01:55:43):
Thank you very much for your text throughout the morning.
A lot of you really enjoyed the interview with Owen Mulligan.
He was really lovely, lovely man. I really enjoyed talking
to him. And the book is absolutely fantastic, he writes brilliantly.
Don't just take my word for it. Michael texts me
to say, morning, Francesca, I'm listening to The Accidental Soldier
on audiobook. Should finish it when I head off tonight
on my night Rundown South. It is brilliant. Owen is

(01:56:05):
an excellent storyteller. Would recommend it to anyone. So thank
you very much for your text. My time. Glad you're
enjoying it too. Yeah, I thought it was fantastic. Fabulous
show lined up for you next week. Helen A Bonham Carter,
the actress who's appeared in everything and everything since I
kind of first saw her, and I think A Room
with a View might have been the first time I

(01:56:25):
saw her. She's got a beautiful new film coming out.
It's called Four Letters of Love. It's a Na Williams
book adaptation. If you're a fan of his, so she's
going to be joining me next Sunday, popping in and
Marco Timmins as well from Cowboy Junkies who are returning
to New Zealand. So wonderful show for you next weeks.
Have a great week, take care, Thank you Carry for
producing the show. Jason Pine is up next with Weekend Sport.

(01:56:48):
Have a good one.

Speaker 14 (01:57:03):
Too, Sweet Swee.

Speaker 1 (01:57:13):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

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