Full Show Podcast: 20 July 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. Welcome to the Sunday Session with
Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great
reads used Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Good morning and welcome to the Sunday Session. Good to
have you with us. Coming up on the show today,
a couple of fabulous guests ar to ten. I'm joined
by the one and only Helena Bonham Carter in her
only New Zealand interview about her new film Four Letters
of Love. Now, if you're a fan of author Nile Williams,
and yes this is an adaptation he is much loved
debut novel. Helena starts alongside Gabriel Byrn and Pierce Brosnan

(00:51):
and what is an enchanting and wildly romantic film. We're
going to talk about taking this tricky book and adapting
it for the big screen, her incredibly varied career and
how the film world has changed since she was launched
to start them forty years ago. In a room with
a view after eleven, Margo Timmins from Canadian band Cowboy
Junkies is with me ahead of the band's tour in November.

(01:13):
We're going to talk about the key to their incredible
longevity and how they've managed to do things their own
way in an industry that can be demanding of a
lot of its artists. So Margo Timmins from Cowboy Junkies
is with us after eleven and as always, you are
most welcome to text anytime throughout the morning. On ninety
two ninety.

Speaker 3 (01:31):
Two for the Sunday session.

Speaker 2 (01:36):
So this morning, the contents of a briefing presented to
Minister of Education Erica Stanford in June raising concerns about
the credibility of nca have been revealed. So NCAAA is
a ridiculously complicated qualification system. It took me a few
years to get my head around its intricacies and how
my two children could use it so differently. There are

(01:58):
inconsistencies in how individual schools deliver and use the system.
It's also drifted away from being a purely academic qualification.
It has some quirks which semi bitmonkers and allow students
to get credits for life skills. So could it be better?
Heck here the government has already moved on some of
the issues raised last year, new literacy and numerous E corequisites.

(02:20):
Fewer subjects and streamline standards were introduced, but according to
this report, there is a lot more that needs to
be done, so the question of Level one's relevance has
been raised again. Level one's only purpose is to acclimatize
students to the system. There's not really any other purpose,
so take it or leave it, it doesn't really matter. The
issues tabled in the ER report focused on the flexibility

(02:42):
of NCEA, so students are able to accumulate credits from
a range of disconnected subjects rather than completing a coherent
course which provides a future direction. This is a polite
way of saying that being able to do first aid
or write a CV isn't credit worthy, regardless of how
useful they may be. There's also an issue where students

(03:04):
being able to accumulate the credits they need just through
internal assessments, allowing them to skip end of year external exams.
So why is this an issue? Well, apparently AI is
playing a larger role in internal assessments and exams are
good for critical thinking and are still a fact of
life if you're progressing to tertiary education. So the answer
would be simply to limit subjects and standards, further ground

(03:27):
the qualification and call academic subjects, and adjustice system so
both internal and external assessments are required. For some students
these changes wouldn't have much of an impact on their experience.
For others, it would be detrimental and risks them becoming
less engaged in school. I understand the importance of a
credible national standard, but ideally it would achieve this while

(03:52):
retaining some room for individuality and catering to all students.
As I mentioned, we've had two quite different experiences with
NCAA in our house. One took it straight on, did
academic subjects in internal and external assas tessment's, got what
they needed, moved on to university and we'll never think
of it again. The other is relishing the flexibility. She's

(04:15):
also doing academic subjects, but is using the system to
finish year thirteen and year twelve and is looking forward
to skipping to it off to UNI a year early.

Speaker 3 (04:23):
Now.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
I know that's not a normal scenario, but it has
demonstrated for me the benefit of NCAA's flexibility, especially for
those who are neurodivergent. For all of this, I suggest
there's something more important to the success of nca or
whatever qualification you have in place than how it's structured,
and that is the delivery of it.

Speaker 4 (04:46):
Now.

Speaker 2 (04:46):
I often speak about the importance of teachers and the
role they play in our children's lives, but unfortunately not
all teachers are equal. You can tinker around with NCAA
as much as you like, but if you don't invest
in those delivering it, making sure they're well trained and
well supported, improvements are likely to be modest. I asked
my children what they thought of NCAA into them it's
a perfectly good qualification that's got them to where they

(05:08):
want to go. They both said, though, the only thing
that matters is the teacher.

Speaker 3 (05:15):
The Sunday session.

Speaker 2 (05:16):
So we are going to talk to Education Minister Erica
Stanford about this. I do just want to say, yes,
there are big issues and we're going to talk about those.
But don't panic if you are a parent out there
whose child is about to go into NCAA or you're
in the middle of it. Because I am surrounded by
young people doing exceptionally well and getting on with life
thanks to an NCAA qualification. It's not all doom and gloom.
But when it does come to fixing NCAA and making

(05:40):
sure that it remains a credible qualification, what do you
want changed? Ninety two? Ninety two is the text. It
is twelve past nine.

Speaker 3 (05:50):
Relax, it's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (05:52):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudgin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great reads, US talks.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
Be good to have you with us. It's fifteen past nine. So,
as I mentioned, changes could be on the cards for NCAA.
Following a damning report the National Secondary School Qualification, a
government briefing to Education Minister Erica Stanford in June raised
significant concerns. The document highlighted particular red flags around the
amount of flexibility built into NCAA. To talk us through

(06:19):
the report and next steps, Education Minister Ericus Stanford is
with me. Thanks so much for your time this morning. Erica,
good morning, good morning. How are you really good? Thanks?

Speaker 4 (06:29):
Hey?

Speaker 2 (06:29):
Can I ask first up what initiated this briefing?

Speaker 5 (06:33):
But we've been doing quite a bit of work on
nca in the last little while. It was really when
I became the minister, I had conversations with many principles
who said to me, look, the rollout of Level one
has been a disaster. We're not ready, we don't have
the exempt plars, we don't know what to teach. And
you remember I got my ministerial warrant on the twenty

(06:54):
seventh of November and we were well past the point
of no return in twenty twenty four to continue on
with rolling out Level one. The new Level one the
changes of previous government had made. So what I did
was quickly fix up as much as I could and
give the teachers the exemplars and learning areas they needed.
But what I did ask ERO to do the Education

(07:18):
Review Office was do an investigation and a report into
what happened. How do we avoid making the same mistake
again when we make changes to level two and three
as the previous government we're planning on doing. So they
did that report, but it had a number of concerns
raised about the whole of NCA, not just Level one,

(07:41):
not just the rollout, but the structural makeup of it.
And it had many questions about whether or not people
understood it, the fact that it was very hard to
make good choices about courses, and that there wasn't good,
coherent packages of learning. So it raised a whole load
of questions we've been trying to answer over the last
year or so.

Speaker 2 (08:01):
No one understands it, Erica.

Speaker 5 (08:04):
Do you know what my husband? My husband said to
a degree, and I don't understand it.

Speaker 2 (08:10):
In anticipation of talking to you today, I was actually
talking to my son yesterday who's in his first year
of university, and we were talking about his experience with
NCAA and even when he got confused about how it
worked and why things were the way they were. Anyway,
we'll talk about that later, but look, flexibility does seem
to be a key issue that it allows credit accumulation
over meaningful learning, and we're talking about students getting credits
for life skills rather than maybe putting together, you know,

(08:33):
an academic qualification that leads them in a sort of
a career direction.

Speaker 5 (08:40):
But I can understand why we went down the path
of flexibility. We thought that, you know, many years ago
when we implemented this, that it would allow students to
build different packages of learning that was tailored to them.
But it has gone so far in the opposite direction.
All these unintended consequences where what you expect and I

(09:02):
think every parent expects if your child is sitting English,
it doesn't or which school they're in. They're sitting English,
it's all the same and they have a coherent package
of learning and a deep understanding of English. But it
turns out that that's not the case. Schools have many
different subjects sorry are credits that they can choose from,

(09:24):
or standards they're called, many different standards they can choose
from to put together English. So English in the Cargoo
versus Northland could look completely different. And in fact, you
don't have to do a certain number of standards in
anyone subject to say you have done English. So it
turns out that you know, you can do a standard

(09:44):
here and a standard from history, and a standard from
geography and a standard over here and pull them all
together and say you have n CEA. But the question
that the ERRO and now MZQA have raised is that
we are What we are missing is a coherent package
of learning in any one subject area, a real deep
understanding of geography or history or calculus. And some schools

(10:06):
will offer great all four standards in anyone subject, but
there are other schools who may not. And that's where
you get this massive lack of consistency, so it depends
where you went to school.

Speaker 2 (10:18):
Absolutely, we're also concerned that students have been avoiding or
skipping external exams because they've got the credits that they
need through internal assessment. Is our external exams at the
end of the year are important.

Speaker 5 (10:32):
They're very important. I mean, it's a really robust way
of assessing student knowledge. And you know, with the event
advent of AI and and other things, it is really
important that we do have an exam situation where there's
no access to anything online. It's you know, the knowledge
that you've gained over the year being assessed an affair

(10:54):
in coherent and consistent way. And look, there will always
be students who need a bit of extra help. We
call those special assessment conditions reader writers extra time because
they may have cular learning difficulties. MOS are all built in,
but it is universally seen as a very good way
of assessing student knowledge and skills.

Speaker 2 (11:15):
Do you think that schools would be happy to lose
that flexibility because some of them, you know, it has
enabled them to use the system to get the best
looking results in some cases.

Speaker 5 (11:26):
Potentially, yes, but that is a basically what's happened over time.
You can see our results right for the last twenty
twenty five years have been plummeting and reading, writing, and
maths in every different thing you look at PISA, Pearls terms,
any internal thing. So essentially what schools are trying to

(11:49):
do is do their very best to get kids across
the line and get them a qualification. But the question
has to be actually, we have to aim higher than
that for our kids. And that's why our reform package
has been on back to basics, reading, writing and maths,
a world leading curriculum that's year by year it progresses
children through learning. We're going to be assessing them twice

(12:09):
a year from next year right from year three to
make sure that they're on track with their learning and
progressing how they should. What that means is in the
future we should be able to have a very robust,
internationally comparable national qualification because our kids are at curriculum.
I think what's happened over time is our curriculum has
been massaged to meet the needs of declining student achievement.

(12:31):
And that's what we want for this country and it's
not what we want for our kids.

Speaker 2 (12:35):
I mean, you yourself have children sitting NCAA, as do
I and many of our listeners. As a mother, how
do you feel being told that your child's qualification has
significant issues?

Speaker 5 (12:45):
Look, look, you're right. I still have two children who
are sitting in CEA, and I still believe, and I
had options. My local school does ib as well, and
we chose not to do ib N. CEA is still
a good qualification. It's just not consistent and it can
be massively improved. And that's the key. I don't want

(13:06):
to stand here today and say NCAA is terrible. It's
still a very good qualification. Many students still end up
in high quality universities all over the world. Many people
are still choosing it over other qualifications. But there is
a lot that we can do to strengthen it, to
make it more consistent, to make parents understand it. I mean,

(13:28):
why on earth can we not go back to a
mark out of one hundred for goodness sake, ABC, I've
got my children coming home saying I only had to
answer two of the questions to get excellent. But what
do you mean you didn't have to answer all of
the questions. Oh, I don't know, just the excellence one.

Speaker 2 (13:42):
Well, at least you knew what an E was when
my first chib came home. When I got an E,
I went, oh, my goodness, so this is a disaster.
It was so far behind. And then it was explained
to me that that meant excellence. Look, I'm pleased to
hear you say that because I don't want to panic
parents about this. As I said, my children are through this,
and I'm seeing a whole lot of young people who
have got NCAA qualifications go on and do whatever that

(14:02):
they wanted to do and succeed and do really well.
So it is a matter of kind of now you know,
sorting it out. So would you get rid of NCAA
completely or do you feel that it can be fixed.

Speaker 5 (14:15):
So everything is on the table at the moment, and
I have got an amazing group of principles from around
the country who are doing this work for me.

Speaker 6 (14:22):
They've been grapped.

Speaker 5 (14:23):
Questions for the last few months. We've been throwing all
sorts of things that I owe them a huge amount
of the work they've done, but they have looked at everything.
They've looked at Arrow's report, they've looked at the results
from NSQA, and they will be helping us to make decisions.
So we're not at a point yet we were ready
to tell the world where we're heading, but we're pretty close.

(14:45):
I think the key thing for me is to say
to parents, we want you to have a real sense
of pride and confidence that our national qualification is setting
your children up with the skills and knowledge that they
need to succeed in the future, and that they can
go anywhere in the world and do anything. I want
you to understand how it works, and I want you

(15:08):
to know that no matter where your child goes to school,
which school we're at, that the curriculum is the same,
that it drives what children are learning and assessed against.

Speaker 2 (15:19):
Can I suedest then that it doesn't really matter what
the structural makeup is. The most important thing to achieve
that is making sure that we invest in the people
who deliver the program, which is the teachers who need
to be supported and trained properly, and that's where the
focus needs to be.

Speaker 5 (15:33):
Well, you're absolutely right, and one of the key findings
from aero's report last year was that there wasn't enough
investment in our teachers. There wasn't enough preparation and enough
professional learning and development and enough time for them to
get ready for the new NCAA changes to Level one.
So anything that we do needs to be phased in.

(15:55):
It needs to be very well resourced, and teachers need
time and professional learning and development to get used to it.
And I think the key thing I think most people
don't really we realize that we don't actually have a
national qualification that goes all ay out to yees thirteen
that drives what's being taught. What's being taught at school
is just whatever the standard is that the schools choose

(16:18):
to do in any one subject that drives what's being taught.
I think a key change I've always talked about is
we must have a national qualification and it's sorry curriculum
and each subject that goes all the way out to
year thirteen that we're all teaching, and that will be
a big chef. We're in the middle of writing it
at the moment, but you're absolutely right, we have to

(16:38):
very well resource it and provide all of the professional
learning development teachers need.

Speaker 2 (16:42):
Erica Stanford, thanks so much for your time this morning.
Really appreciated. It is twenty six plus nineteen to what
you your thoughts on this. I really like the fact
that the Minister isn't of a dramatizing this. Yeah, it's
got some issues, but we can potentially fix it. We're
going to take a look at everything, but you know
it is still a good qualification. Let me know your thoughts.
News Talks E'DB.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at B.

Speaker 2 (17:13):
Thank you very much for your text. Ad Al agrees
investment and teachers is the key and in public Education
bill text to say, high time we moved on from
the number eight wire approach to education and acknowledge that
other countries do it better. Starting secondary education at thirteen
is crazy about time we implemented the international gcsee exams

(17:34):
in all schools and started secondary education at eleven. Ninety
two to ninety two is the text number. Joining me
now to talk local politics. New Zealand Herald political editor
Adam Pearce is with me, Hi Adam.

Speaker 7 (17:47):
How and it's a deputy political editor. I wouldn't want
to think that. I wouldn't want to think there's been
a coup on or anything.

Speaker 2 (17:53):
No, no, I like to elevate people here on the show.
Let's start with the prime Minister he has been in Tasman.
Where is government support at for the region.

Speaker 7 (18:04):
Yeah, we'll have to kick down about six hundred thousd
than for the Maril Relief Fund, which is always important,
you know. That's the money that people can access kind
of in a more immediate fashion to really help with
the initial initial cleanup. Obviously, we did see Prime Minister
Chris Reluxance speaking on the ground with those affected, doing
the usual fly over seeing the scale of the damage,

(18:26):
which has been pretty significant given that there have been
multiple multiple heavy rain events in that area over the
last few few weeks. But we did get to get
confirmation of a long awaited rain radar for the Nelson
Tasman region. So that'll be about five million dollars they
reckoned to set up and eight hundred thousand per year

(18:48):
to keep it going and that look to have that
and from about twenty twenty seven now. It's been a
long long held issue in that part of part of
the country. Local authorities, mayors have called for it quite
a lot over a number of years simply because well
they argue that it's a blind spot the Tasman area
for the current radar tech that we have and it's

(19:11):
really necessary in order to be able to anticipate these
events and make sure people are prepared. So I can
imagine that we'll be giving people some kind of comfort
looking forward. Obviously it won't be coming in for another
couple of years, but you know, resources for people like
that in times like these are important. But of course,
hanging over all of this is that kind of long

(19:32):
running debate, I suppose, about who pays when severe weather hits.
You know, we saw obviously the devastation that happened through
cycling Gabriel and the long process there in terms of compensation. Now,
Lux has been pretty clear and has messaging here saying
that the government simply can't keep paying for it, especially

(19:53):
when it's just going to get more and more and
more of these events and they're going to be more severe.
So I think it's a pretty clear line in the
sand as the who pays for it and how well
really wet, we don't really know much about that, so
I think there are going to be some pretty tough
conversations going forward.

Speaker 2 (20:10):
Adam, any other conversation, any other announcements happening today?

Speaker 7 (20:15):
Yeah, well, there seems to be simlisters that we might
have might have an announcement later today, something relating to infrastructure. Now,
the government obviously have talked lots about how they want
to engage, you know, overseas investors to get investment going
with these big projects. Now, you know, we're not far
away from next year's election, and you know there's been

(20:38):
a few big announcements obviously a lot of a couple
of roads specifically if you're looking up north. But you
know there's a lot left on the government's dance card
as far as infrastructure goes, So we potentially might be
able to see a bit of that later this afternoon
or late this morning.

Speaker 2 (20:53):
Thank you so much, Adam, I appreciate your time this morning.
It is twenty six to Tenure with Newstalks.

Speaker 1 (20:58):
AB the Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered
by NEWSTALKSB.

Speaker 2 (21:06):
I forget that the delightful Helena Bottom Carter is with
me after ten this morning. Right, a clean sweep of
the French for the All Backs.

Speaker 8 (21:17):
Well, they've done it the hard way tonight.

Speaker 9 (21:18):
The All Blacks have had to come from behind, but
they keep the French scoreless in the second spell and
take a twenty nine at nineteen win and they whitewash
the French to open season twenty twenty five.

Speaker 2 (21:36):
So not as convincing last night in Hamilton to discuss
news tooks, he'd be. Rugby commentator Elliott Smith joins me, Now,
good morning morning French escat. Okay, what did you make
of last night?

Speaker 10 (21:46):
A little bit clunky? I think from the All Blacks,
Lafrons I thought probably played their best game of the tour. Yes,
they got probably closer and certainly did get closer in
terms of a margin in Dunedan, but I thought they
defended a lot better. Their attack looked with a little
bit more shape than what we saw in Dunedin as well.
So I think from an All Black's perspective, clunky probably

(22:09):
covers it. And did we learn what they wanted to
about some of those players that they gave opportunities to?
Maybe a couple, But I think the All Blacks will
be more than happy just to wrap up the series
with the three in the win and consider that job
done from what we've said over the last three weeks.

Speaker 2 (22:25):
Yes, So what did Scott Robertson say after the match?
What did he think of his side's performance?

Speaker 10 (22:30):
Well, I think he was said to his performance that
they needed. He thought the French were gallants last night,
and I think suggested that the All Blacks probably will
be better for what they've seen over the last three
weeks and certainly what they've encountered in the first and
third weeks. The way that the French attack, he said,
is nothing like what we see in super rugby. The

(22:52):
way that they kicks nothing like they see in super rugby.
So to get some of those pictures and learn a
little bit different things about test rugby I think will
be valuable. He got a number of players out in
the park. He managed to live up to his promise
of getting everyone into the in the squad game time,
apart from Luke Jacobson, who has ruled out you know,
ten minutes before kickoff last night. So he will have

(23:15):
learned a little bit about, you know, how they will
Blacks perform under pressure. There is certainly a lot to
work on before the Rugby Championship. But I think you'd
take his comments and go, yep, they do.

Speaker 1 (23:25):
You know.

Speaker 10 (23:27):
You know, the series was perhaps you know, a no
win situation, I guess to Scott robertson where French had
sent over the second or third string side and Bill
Blacks were expected to win and win well. They didn't
win well in all three matches, but they did come
away with a series win.

Speaker 2 (23:44):
A tough night for Damon mackenzie.

Speaker 10 (23:46):
Yeah, he just couldn't quite go his way. Look a
number of opportunities he had. He tried all night long
to try and spark the team and get things going.
Just couldn't quite get bad and I think that was
a result probably in the first half of Veill Blacks
not getting enough front football and therefore when you're in
ten you're always playing from behind. I thought it was

(24:08):
enough and down night for it from McKenzie. There were
some glimpses of what he can do. There's also some
glimpses that he was just struggling to assert himself on
the game. Very similar perhaps in a way, especially that
first half I felt to the Super Rugby Final when
his pack was going backwards, he wasn't able to put
his imprints on the game. And when the All Blacks

(24:28):
pack were able to get a bit of go forward
after halftime, he looked a lot better. So yeah, it
wasn't the best to night for nights for Damien McKinsey,
but he stood. He wasn't alone in that regard from
an all works perspective.

Speaker 2 (24:38):
So they couldn't quote pull it together as a team.
But were there any individual performances that impressed you.

Speaker 10 (24:43):
Yeah, they were. Look I thought Fabi and Holland again
stood out in the second row. Third Test in a row.
He would be one of the few Test players in
recent history, certainly in the professional era when they've had substitutes,
to have played three straight eighty minutes in a row
since making his debut, and I think took another step
forward last night and what he can do in the

(25:04):
second row, so very very impressed. I think he's been
the find of the series. Francesca and what he can
do for the All Blacks. I thought Antony Lennett Brown
had at a mixed night. He was certainly better, probably
in the first half rather than the second, which is
probably the opposite for a number of the All Blacks.
But I thought he was better before halftime, so he
can be impressed. And again Ruben Love, I thought grew
into the game a couple of aerial contests that he

(25:27):
didn't win, but I thought he showed that he is
very much a growing player and in terms of Test rugby,
his ceiling is very very high, so getting his opportunity
to get full back up, I thought he was better
as time went on in that game. So there's a
few players that would have stood out to Scott Robinson
as he contemplates the best mix of his twenty three
for the Rugby Championship.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
Yes, so that was going to be my next question.
How has this series set the All Blacks up for
that Championship?

Speaker 10 (25:52):
Look, I think in a way, you know, the French,
as I said before, do attack and to defend in
a different way to some of the Super rugby teams,
maybe a little bit closer to South Africa, although they
are sort of unique a little bit in the way
that they do approach the game. But I think it
was a tough test. Look are tougher than the All
Blacks of the New Zealand public, I should say probably

(26:14):
expected it to be, given the caliber of French players
that were sent over in the number of cats that
they had. Look, they're gonna have to live a level,
certainly for two tests away in Argentina in four weeks time.
The first test of that in a four weeks time today,
They're going to have to lift for that. So look,
we learned a little bit about some of those players.
You'd imagine most of them will be retained for the

(26:35):
Rugby Championship. Last night he said that Boden Barrett's hand
injury still quite tender, so he'll probably be out for
a few weeks and whether he's available for the start
of the Rugby Championship still remains to be seen. You know,
whilst the teet he missed the series through injury, so
whether he's available as yet to be answered. Scott Barrett,
so there's a few questions around that from an All

(26:56):
Blacks perspective, but they are going to have to lift
a level and when that first choice team gets out
of the park, you'd expect them to be able to
click a lot better than maybe the teams have seen,
especially the first and third test.

Speaker 2 (27:07):
Elliott is a month too long between.

Speaker 10 (27:09):
Matches probably is, to be honest, but there's a lions
too obviously going on across the Tasman and with the
wild he stacking part, and that they sort of need
to realign the schedule a little bit. And you know,
maybe the All Blacks could have thrown another Test in,
you know, potentially against another country a fig or someone
like that would have been quite handy. Some war was

(27:31):
just played on the weekend against Scotland, that might have
been potentially an option, just to keep the bodies warm
and tacking over. But also there's come off along Super
Rugby season as well. These players now only had ten
days before they went into the camp. I mean, the
international rugby calendar is so squeezed, the domestic calendar is
so squeezed that finding another test match and room for

(27:51):
it isn't always easy. And maybe you know, a few
weeks off isn't necessarily the worst thing in the world.
But we know when we get to the Rugby Championship
will inevitably be a little bit of a rust from
the All Black, so kind of sitting on the fence
and in terms of answering that one, Francesca, but maybe
the rest all you know, reinvigorating the All Black staff.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
Look, it gives you a little rest as well, Elliott.
You can rest up and you know, be ready to go.
Oh look, it's always Thank you so much for your time, Elliot,
much appreciated.

Speaker 10 (28:19):
No trouble, Thanks Franchisca.

Speaker 2 (28:20):
And up next we are off to the Ice Cream
Awards here on News Talk zipp.

Speaker 1 (28:25):
Digging into the issues that affect you. The mic Hosking
Breakfast the.

Speaker 11 (28:29):
Best advice I offer anyone, in fact, including our kids.
Do it yourself. It's your life, your decision, your future.

Speaker 2 (28:34):
Do it yourself.

Speaker 11 (28:36):
This is the cost plus accounting that goes on and
it's in power, it's in rates, it's an insurance. We
need to look and learn and then get our act
together and apply a bit of basic discipline to our
long term futures that doesn't rely on the government. Back
tomorrow at six am the Mic Hosking Breakfast with a
Vida News Talk zib.

Speaker 3 (28:56):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
It's a Sunday session with Francesca Rutkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great breaths news talks.

Speaker 6 (29:05):
It be.

Speaker 2 (29:07):
Remain and stormy wear embasim Ba to man, I'm your
ass remained starmy wearing embassim bar So Gone of the
days when ice cream was vanilla, chocolate and hokey pokey.
Nowadays the boundaries are being pushed. Mince and cheese, pie,
gelato anyone. Yesterday, many diverse flavors were on display at

(29:28):
the New Zealand Ice Cream and Gelato Awards Chief Judge
Jeff Scott has the job of taste testing them, and
he joins me, now.

Speaker 3 (29:36):
Good morning, good morning, how are you today?

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Very good? Thank you. Now, I know it might have
sounded like a little bit of a joke, but there
really was mince and cheese pie gelato. What does it
taste like?

Speaker 12 (29:51):
Well, I've never had mince and cheese gelato before, but
boy did it punch a flavor. It was just like
eating the real thing.

Speaker 2 (30:01):
I'm sort of slightly concerned by the What was the
most out there flavor? Or was that it?

Speaker 12 (30:10):
Look there were quite a few out there flavors this year,
including a fur carture gelato which tasted just like rosemary
salt and that lovely sort of crispy caramelized bread olive
oil topping. Honestly, there was some really neat, exciting new
innovative flavors.

Speaker 2 (30:30):
Sichuan chili crisp and whipped fee ice cream were another
couple that stood out to me.

Speaker 12 (30:37):
Yeah, I have to say, these flavors really do play
with your head because you sort of think about these
lovely savor flavors and then you put the gelato in
your mouth and you sort of your brain's telling you, hey,
this is ice cream, this is gelato, it's going to
be sweet, and then all of a sudden you get
these sort of funny, nostalgic salty flavors from you know,
what you'd eat at a rugby game, right, and you

(31:00):
know the mince pie is suddenly ice cream. You're going, oh,
hang on, it doesn't feel quite right. Cleverly, these manufacturers
who have come up with these clever ideas have really
sort of struck a note. I don't know if it's
going to race off the shelves, but it's certainly really interesting.

Speaker 2 (31:16):
So my question was that it might sound a bit strange,
but how do you eat these ice creams? I mean,
do you go and get yourself a double scoop cone
of mince and cheese pie gilato or would it be
something that you would have on the side to go
with something else, like, you know, just a smaller amount
of these more unique flavors.

Speaker 12 (31:37):
Look, I really like your approach, because everybody is going
to tackle this one differently. Certainly, some of these flavors
would be perfect. You know, if you're walking along the
beach and you stop at a scoop shop and you think, oh,
you know, I don't really want to go for chocolate today,
I want to try something different. Then that's when you'd
go for a lovely, big scoop of your mince and cheese,

(31:58):
and you're just going to have so much fun and
so much conversation because it's just so wacky, and you know,
you you'd normally be on your hokey folk or something
like that, and then all of a sudden you're going, no, no,
I get this. I'm having my frozen mince and cheese
with tomato sauce and it tastes just like that. And
then there's the other flavors, like the whipped fetto, which

(32:20):
to me is something that you'd have on the side.
You know, you might be having a nice dinner and
you think, oh, you know, just put a little scoop
of that on the side to go with this lovely dinner.
And that's where you're sort of getting into a bit
more of a gourmet experience. But look, I think the
great thing about ice cream and gelato and sawbets in
New Zealand is we are getting some lovely, new, fantastic

(32:41):
flavors and some really really beautiful ice creams and gelatos
which are just so different and so delicious that you've
got to try them.

Speaker 2 (32:53):
How do they get that flavor into an ice cream
or a gelato or does it just remain a mystery
to everybody.

Speaker 12 (33:01):
Well, look, I come from a chefing background. I've cooked
all my life and worked in some amazing restaurants overseas,
which was such a privilege where all these ice creams
and sawbets that we made in these top restaurants were
sort of handmade with real fruit, and you just bought
the best quality fruit at its absolute peak and then

(33:22):
turned it into either a delicious salt or ice cream. Now,
the challenge, of course for these producers is they're not
just making two or three little portions per night. They're
making large amounts of delicious sorbet gelato that can be
served at scoop shops and restaurants and hotels and all
over the country, and some are even exported. So you

(33:43):
need to look at this on a big scale and
as a judge. What we're looking for is obviously a
really creamy, wonderful example, but it comes down to primarily
the flavor. Does it taste like what it says it is? Take,
for example, kiwi fruit or strawberry. You really want to
taste the absolute, pure, delicious fruit as you would imagine

(34:07):
you'd sort of picked it off the tree or picked
it out of the field. And this is the challenge,
and this is where I think our producers are getting
really rarely good at it.

Speaker 2 (34:17):
Oh good to hear. Jeez, two hundred and sixty six entries.
Do you have to try them all?

Speaker 3 (34:24):
Well?

Speaker 12 (34:24):
I actually am lucky I don't have to try every
single one, which is a blessing because I would have
popped and I would honestly, you do get what's called
the nastiest ice cream headache in the world if you
eat and if you swallow every single sample.

Speaker 7 (34:41):
So my job actually is to look after.

Speaker 12 (34:43):
A team of twenty four very experienced palettes, and those
twenty four judges have the job of tasting all the
different categories, of which there were fifteen separate categories, and
all samples divided up equally amongst the team, and their
job is to carefully and very very focused go through

(35:05):
every single samp and assess and award points.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
This is a bit random, Jeef, but I was sent
a photo of you mid testing yesterday and it looked
like you had a bowl of chips in front of you,
and I was curious as to whether that was just
a snack for the testers or whether you use chippies
as a sort of palette cleanser of salts.

Speaker 12 (35:29):
Well, it's a really good question. And often, you know,
if you think about wine tasting judges, when they cleanse
their palettes, they like to have a little bit of
bag at or a cracker. And when it comes to
tasting ice cream gelato, because they're predominantly sweet, the best
thing that you can do and eat in between your
samples is to have either a lovely plain, a sort

(35:52):
of salted potato crisp, or a little salted snack cracker
or a water cracker. It's something that just with a
tiny bit of salt and warm water to help cleanse
your palate.

Speaker 2 (36:05):
See I learned something every day, dev a secret. It's
been a pleasure to talk to you. Thank you so much.

Speaker 12 (36:12):
Great to chat with you.

Speaker 2 (36:14):
And metal winners will be announced on August the twelfth,
with the trophy winners named at the New Zealand ice
Cream and Gelato Awards Gala party on the twenty eighth.
It is seven to ten.

Speaker 1 (36:26):
The Sunday Session Full show podcast on my Heart Radio
powered by News Talks FB.

Speaker 2 (36:33):
Thanks so much for the text. We're talking to Elliott
about the rugby and Cally text to say that all
breaks don't stand a chance against the box and I think, yes,
the Championship is going to be really interesting. But Bruce
also mentioned he was just like, wow, Lines versus the
Wallabes Australia are a different team. So I'm quite looking
forward to the championship right. I like it when it's
all sort of a little up in the air and challenging.

(36:53):
Another text here as well, regarding talking to Erica Stanford
this morning about NCAA morning, I took from that all
options are on the table. New curriculum documents are dropping
in all subject areas currently and into the next two years.
If NCAA isn't working, changing to something else could and
should happen while new curriculums are being written. Have to
remember we changed the from school seat NCAA in two

(37:15):
thousand and three, so changing again is possible. We shouldn't
be scared to make dramatic change. Only way to improve
a country in all areas is to educate. Thank you
so much, Jordan for that text right, there isn't much
Helena Bonham Carter hasn't done. She'd launched to fame as
the darling of the merchant Ivory Production Company. I think

(37:35):
The Room of the View was the first film I
saw her in. Then she went on to star in
a variety of films from Fight Club, Harry Potter, Charlie
and the Chocolate Factory, The King's Speech, Ocean's Eight and
Nola Holmes and let's not forget the TV show The Crown.
She is an original talent and an absolute hope. And
Helena Bonham Carter is with me next to talk about

(37:56):
her latest film, Four Letters of Love Year with Newstalks.

Speaker 3 (37:59):
I've been for the first time. It's Sunday. You know

(38:53):
what that means.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rutker and Wickles for
the best selection of great reeds us talks.

Speaker 6 (39:00):
It be.

Speaker 2 (39:08):
Lovely to have you with us. It is seven past ten.
Helena Bottom Carter is one of the UK's most versatile
and successful actresses since launching into the spotlight in nineteen
eighty five is a Room with a View. She's acted
in a wide range of screen roles, from Harry Potter
to The Crown Fight Club to Sweeney Todd. Helenda's new
film is an adaptation of Nile Williams's novel Four Letters
of Love. It tells the story of strangers Nicholas and

(39:31):
Isabelle on the journey to true love. Helena A. Bottom
Carter is with me. Good morning, Helen. I thank you
so much for being with us.

Speaker 13 (39:38):
My pleasure.

Speaker 2 (39:39):
Now tell me when a beloved Irish author like Nile
Williams adapts one of his own books into a film
and you get the call to be part of it,
how long does it take for you to say yes.

Speaker 13 (39:49):
Well, there was a sort of I loved the book
like twenty five years before that call came, and it
was like one of my all time favorites. My mom
had given it to me and I was like, it
has us. It's an enchanting book. And in fact, at
that time you need to get the rights and I

(40:10):
need to play Isabelle who is the young Asano, and
then nothing happened. A lot of people have tried at
Stanny Tootu, and lots of people that it went through
different lives and it is basically an impossible book to adapt,
so then when it came twenty five years later, Niall
actually wrote to me this message. I was trying to
find it last night and I thought, oh, my god,

(40:30):
he wants me to play Margaret Gore. Oh it's meant
And because a lot of the book is about destiny
and fate, I thought, oh, the book has now come
to life, and now I'm inveigling eggs in vaguing me
into me involved in it. So it was a sort
of fateful thing. And the man I met Polly, I thought,
who's got such a huge amount of Margaret Gore in her?

(40:52):
I shear determination. I thought, yeah, I think I'm meant
to be doing this. I mean, it wasn't a difficult
It wasn't a difficult, Yes, because who wouldn't go to
Ireland for three and work on one of the best
novels of all time and have to be irish?

Speaker 2 (41:12):
Absolutely Margaret, the character you play, she farewells her daughter
off the island to finish school on the mainland, and
it's a difficult time for mother, isn't it navigating how
to allow your children to become independent and live their
own lives and make their own decisions. Did you relate
to that age and stage of motherhood.

Speaker 13 (41:31):
Yeah, I think she says something about they leave their
childhood home only to visit it. But you know that's it.
They're just visiting childhood's not ever moving back.

Speaker 6 (41:43):
Yeah.

Speaker 13 (41:43):
I mean, I've got a twenty one year old boy
who went to UNI and I still got one at home.
But I dreading her leaving. It's a horrible time. It's
one of those stages, the rights of passages.

Speaker 2 (41:59):
The film is filled with poets and painters and musicians,
people driven to understand the world around them through art.
And obviously this is something that you do for a living,
but in general, do you think it's something that we
still treasure enough today?

Speaker 13 (42:13):
How do you mean?

Speaker 2 (42:14):
Well, I just wonder in this world we're on our
phones the whole time, where you know, we communicate with
people through our phones, we're sort of living in a
completely different world. I just love the way these characters
sort of embrace the world around and felt that, you know,
they had to paint and write poetry, and there's music

(42:35):
in this film, you know, instead of how people express themselves,
you know, not via on Instagram post.

Speaker 13 (42:42):
No, I do think it's the world has been threatened
all the time in the world and our brains and
a free time that's being eaten up by this monster
of Instagram and the phone and purchase and consuming. I mean,
I know myself because I'm very seduced by that insta entertainment.

(43:03):
There was a time in the book, in the film
that we we were filming I think it's Merlo Bay.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
It was off.

Speaker 13 (43:10):
There was no signal, so like after the moment of panic,
whenever I'm realized, oh my god, we're just actually going
to have to talk to each other. We were all
cramped in a tiny little cottage living room, me Gabriel Byrne,
I can't remember, but a whole bunch of us, and

(43:31):
it was absolutely brilliant because he started telling us stories
and we couldn't be scrolling because there was nothing to scroll.
And I thought, this is what we lack, human connection.
And I have found it really irritating on films lately that,
you know, being part of a film is fun because

(43:54):
there's a new family and there's new sets of people
and you can chat and people just interact. But now
you walk on a film and everyone's just self involved
on their phone, including all the crew. No one could
really give up flying monkeys. You know, it's just like
they're all involved in the in the world in their
phone and not this thing, which is actually way more nourishing.

(44:15):
So yeah, we should banish them.

Speaker 10 (44:19):
I am.

Speaker 13 (44:19):
I'm also banishing phones on film sets because it's just
not very healthy, I don't think, or it's not nourishing
for our souls.

Speaker 2 (44:29):
I also loved and felt quite nostalgic about the letter
writing in the film that you know, these days people
use check GPT to write a birthday card. We really are,
you know, we really are kind of losing the skill
and the art of handwriting and the personal nature of
letter writing. Would you agree, Yeah, totally. I still have.

(44:51):
I have.

Speaker 13 (44:51):
I'm really into writing, so I've got a calligraphy thing,
and i love inc and I like the physicality and
of paper and pen and that I've got a thing
about stationary so I totally. And I've also got an
aunt who is a calligrapher, a goophologist who analyzers handwriting,
so you know, in her she's getting as soon people

(45:11):
there won't be much handwriting to analyze. It is really
really sad. The act of a letter is very precious. Yeah,
slowly we're becoming all vanquished by it, by technology and chatbots,
and but the letter, yeah, four letters of love. I

(45:34):
think hopefully people will you know, react and will become
Luodites again.

Speaker 2 (45:40):
An incredible cast as you mentioned before, Pierce Brosna and
Gabrielle Byrne, yourself, also filled with some fabulous young actors.
You know, I just loved En Scaley as easy. I
thought she was really wonderful. Do you look at filmmaking
these days and think to yourself, you know, when you
obviously you've just mentioned everyone's on their phones on seats,
but when you're looking at these young actors coming through

(46:01):
in the industry, there they're existing in. Is it completely
different to when you started out when you were young.

Speaker 13 (46:07):
I think it is very very different because I think
there's so many of them, but there were so many
of us when we started too. But all the self
taping that's happened, you know, over COVID people don't necessarily
meet people anymore. Casting people don't necessarily meet the actors
meet actors just send tapes in it's a much less
personal thing always when it comes to it, people are

(46:30):
balls of energy and you can't get to know someone
through just on the screen. It's connectivity. Until you meet someone,
I think you really can't know if.

Speaker 3 (46:42):
What they're like.

Speaker 13 (46:44):
You get the feel of the person and then see
how they interact with one's own energy. So I think
it's very hard. And then of course because of the phone,
it gets more and more facist. It's more about what
you look like. And yeah, I'm really glad I don't
exist in this time. And also all these people making
comments about you. It's a bit like being well known,

(47:06):
which I've been well known and know not to look
up what people think of me who don't know me,
because there's always going to be cruel. And now you've
got everyone being well known through you know, Instagram, and.

Speaker 4 (47:18):
People are so bitchy.

Speaker 13 (47:20):
They're bitchy when they can be anonymous.

Speaker 2 (47:22):
But I think something I've always very much admired about
you is that you matched the beat of your own drum.
Would that be fair to say you haven't. I feel
like you've put boundaries up around you to cope with
this industry that you're in the.

Speaker 13 (47:37):
Only way you can do it, otherwise you go completely bonkers.
And does it really matter, you know, it's I don't
want to offend anyone, God help me.

Speaker 6 (47:45):
You know.

Speaker 13 (47:45):
I don't want to offend or hurt, but if people
don't like me, what can I do? I'm sorry, so
you know you're not going to please everyone.

Speaker 2 (47:55):
Forty years since A Room with a View was released,
you were nineteen years old. That was the first film
where I meet you. You could say on screen, I've
played so many varied, but rich roles over the years.
Do you reflect on it often? No, not even a
gentle reminisce.

Speaker 13 (48:16):
Occasionally I'll reminisce when I hear somebody's died, you know,
and then go back to then the younger self that
I was with, you know, when I was with that person,
I mean, or I meet someone, you know. I've met
a lot of people, which is I think the greatest
gift byproduct of this working in this career so long.

(48:37):
So I've had so many fun It's also been a
lark and a laugh because you get all this stories
and then and getting to know people as well as
the fiction that you're playing. And it's been the variety

(49:00):
has been quite extraordinary of country place people writing parts.
There's been a lot of moving, you know things, so
it's not been boring.

Speaker 2 (49:13):
And it's appealed to so many people across generations. I
mentioned tonight that I was I was coming in to
talk to you, and as I said, you know, I
first saw you forty years ago, and my sixteen year
old daughter tonight was really excited I was coming to
talk to you.

Speaker 13 (49:27):
I wash, she excited.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
Yeah, how many is it? How fantastic?

Speaker 4 (49:30):
Is there is that bellatrix?

Speaker 2 (49:32):
Or is that possibly?

Speaker 13 (49:34):
Yeah? Like there's a lot of different It wasn't really deliberate,
but I just sort of did whatever was new. I
suppose there is a party, me go like, oh, oh,
I haven't done that before. So but it's quite fun.
When people are veering towards you, you know that it's
going to be can have a photo or I really
liked you in and then when it's like unlikely, you think, oh,

(49:57):
that's another room that's going to be much an ivory person.
And then in fact, eighty year old woman the other
day veering toward them saying, oh God, here we go.
Loved you in fight club, my darling, and you feel
like that's the most unlikely one that I thought was
very funny.

Speaker 2 (50:13):
Helena, thank you so much for your time. Really appreciate it.
Lovely to talk to you.

Speaker 13 (50:18):
Lovely to Talk to You Die.

Speaker 2 (50:19):
That was the amazing Helena Bonham Carter. Her new film
Four Letters of Love is in cinemas this Thursday. I
don't forget They're coming up after eleven as well. Margo Timmins,
lead singer of the Cowboy Junkies, joins me to talk
about their incredible longevity in the music industry and the
joy of working with family as well. It is eighteen
past ten News Talks There'd.

Speaker 3 (50:38):
Be Great Recover.

Speaker 1 (50:39):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and Wickles for
the best selection of the great readings US Talks.

Speaker 3 (50:46):
They'd be.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
Every year, Wickles invites young readers to vote for their
favorite books to help them compile the new Wickles Kids
Top Fifty, which is updated every year with the most
popular books at the time. The great thing about the
Kids Top fifty is that as thousands of kids have
voted for these books, there's a great chance that other
kids are going to love them.

Speaker 1 (51:05):
Too.

Speaker 2 (51:06):
Tried and true and have been tested by some of
the finest young minds in the land. You can take
your kids to any whit Cools store where they can
cast their votes for their three favorite titles It's tough
or go online to whitkeols dot co dot nz and
let them have their same. The new Kid's Top fifty
will be launched in September with more great recommendations for
young readers with books, toys, gorgeous stationary puzzles, games, and

(51:28):
the whit Cals Kids Top fifty. There really is something
for everyone at wit Cals.

Speaker 3 (51:33):
The Sunday Session.

Speaker 2 (51:46):
Okay, so a week or two ago, our entertainment contributor
Steve Newle, editor at Flix dot Cotter and z, he
was doing this segment while also kind of simultaneously watching
The Black Sabbath Ozzy Osbourne's final concert the Granny. Good
news is, if it did sound like a bit of you,
they are going to turn this final live show into

(52:09):
a film. So the sold out gig is currently in
production and the film is set to arrive in cinemas
in twenty twenty six one hundred minutes and it's described
as in the press release is a love letter to
Ozzie and the pioneering sound of Black Sabbath. So there
you go, to all your Black Sabbath fans, something to
look forward to next year. Fantastic, right, Steve's with us now,

(52:30):
good morning.

Speaker 14 (52:30):
Good morning. I should note as well that that concert
raised two hundred million pounds for charity. It's the largest
I believe it's the largest charity fundraising concert in history.

Speaker 2 (52:40):
Amazing, there's amazing. Didn't know that. Hey, I have been
watching Eric Banner and Sam Neil in the Netflix thriller Untamed.

Speaker 14 (52:48):
Great setting, isn't it just Yazimite National Park? And filmed beautifully?
In this new Netflix thriller, the pairing of Eric Banner
and Sam Neil seems like something that should have happened
heaps sometimes before.

Speaker 2 (53:00):
Right, No, it's so right. They're so right together on screen.

Speaker 14 (53:04):
Totally, And I mean their ages may suggest like Eric
Banners very much. The start of the show, he is
the special agent in Yuzumbiti National Park, trying to figure
out a new murder in a park that's already rife
with disappearances and kind of weird goings on. Sam Neil
plays his boss sort of a bit of a father
figure as well. So they're dynamics. Yeah, I'm mystified. While

(53:24):
we haven't seen this on screen before. To be perfectly honest,
I've been really enjoying this. The location's beautiful. There's a
lot of really vertigo inducing shots, rock climbing, leaning over
cliffs and just the natural wonder next to this kind
of this tail it unfolds of just sort of getting

(53:45):
a little grubbier and into the secrets of the people
that have been living there for a while. I'm really
enjoying it.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
It's a good Ben Jason.

Speaker 14 (53:51):
I'd say that The one thing that I've noted, though,
is if this was a UK show might have had
just a tiny bit more respect for its audience, being
able to put two and two together. It is a
little bit of a It is a little bit of
a oh hey, did you notice this? Did you notice this?

Speaker 3 (54:05):
Did notice this?

Speaker 2 (54:06):
Yeah?

Speaker 14 (54:07):
But did you notice this? But be that as it may.
Location Stars makes for a winning show.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
No, I completely agree, very much enjoying it. Hey tell
me about friendship.

Speaker 14 (54:19):
Yeah, so this is well, this is another kind of
interesting male duo project, this time a feature film and
cinemas now and in quite a black comedy. Stars Paul Rudd,
everyone's sort of a favorite everyman comedian, and Tim Robinson,
who if you're not familiar with, I think you should leave,
and his kind of absurd brand of comedy. He is

(54:41):
kind of mining the foibles of men in a way
that is just kind of getting to the core of
how terrible we are really. So both these actors have
sort of chased like air quote normal in their comedy,
but here we sort of see normal as you're a nice,
relatable guy, Paul Rudd versus Tim Robinson, You're the stuff

(55:03):
that lives in our head that we already never should
admit to. So they are they are living in the suburbs.
Tim Robinson's character meets Paul Rudd. He's the cool new neighbor.
He's in a band, he's got a mustache. Even very
soon the title friendship stops applying because this is very
awkward and weird. I think you should leave. That show

(55:25):
is populated by characters who kind of dig themselves in
over their head and getting this sort of outrageously indefensible
positions and make complete manuses themselves. This film's a bit
like what that would happen, or what that would be
like if it happened in real life. So okay, it's
a comedy, but it's a dark one.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
So we've got Untamed on Netflix and friendships.

Speaker 14 (55:46):
And friendships and cinemas now and I'm ready to recommend
sing this with an audience. This is really great kind
of cringe comedy stuff.

Speaker 2 (55:53):
Brilliant. Thank you, so ah. Can I ask you a
quick question. I noticed that tickets to Christopher Nolan's The
Odyssey are going to be on sale a year before
the film is released. I mean, it hasn't even they
haven't even.

Speaker 14 (56:07):
How's your how's your forward planning?

Speaker 3 (56:09):
Well?

Speaker 2 (56:10):
This is this good? I mean they're trying to build
anticipation for it and everything, but is that going to work?
Is this going to sort of market films? Is this
a good sort of gimmick to get people interested in
going to the cinemas. I'd forget in the year's time,
i'd even purchased it.

Speaker 14 (56:25):
I think even seeing a teaser a year out's kind
of a bit a bit of a Oh that's nice.
It's nice to know that's coming. But I'm going to
immediately disregard all mention of dates and everything, because you'll
be reminded of it close to the time.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
You buy a ticket to a concert a year out
because you have to because they sell out in a day, right,
But you know you're going to be able to get
a ticket for this man.

Speaker 14 (56:43):
What if you want to what if you change your
mind about what your favorite seat is besween now and
then oh I don't like if one anymore. I want
g one.

Speaker 2 (56:51):
You know that we just sound old. Thank you so much, Steve.
Really nice to talk to you. Why does waking up
feel so different from day to day? We are going
to find out next with Michelle Dekincent. Its twenty eight
past ten.

Speaker 1 (57:06):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks.

Speaker 3 (57:10):
It be.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
Right in our science study this week, Doctor Michel Dickinson.
Here's something that I do think about quite often when
the alarm goes off and you stagger around a bed
and you think yourself, gosh, I've heard them best sleep
in the world. Why am I not like, I don't know,
skipping around the house. Michelle, tell me about the study.
Where did you find this?

Speaker 15 (57:30):
So this has just been published this week in the
journal Current Biology. It's open source if you want to
read it. It's quite meaty, but go ahead and I
might actually send you to sleep. But anyway, it is
a study that tries to understand the question, which is
why is it some mornings you wake up and you're like,
I'm ready for a day, let's jump out of bed.
It's great.

Speaker 2 (57:48):
And the mornings you wake up and you're like, oh,
I can't see pleased on me.

Speaker 15 (57:52):
I got a snooze twenty times, and yet you've had
sort of the same amount of sleep. And so they go, well,
if you've had the same hours of sleep and your
sleep's been pretty consistent, it must be something to do
with how you wake up or what part of your sleeps,
like call your waking up on. So they talk all
these voluntiers and they put this EG on their brain.
So they put a really sensitive EG that was measuring

(58:15):
very sensitively your brain waves on what's going on. And
they put these volunteers to sleep in a room and
they measured their brain waves and then they either woke
them up pretty startlingly with a loud alarm or they
let them wake up naturally and they looked at what
the brain waves are doing. And they did this for
over one thousand awakenings, so it's quite a lot of
time these people are just spend falling asleep and then

(58:36):
being woken up again. And what they found is actually interesting.
They found that your brain doesn't wake up at the
same time, So different parts of your brain wake up
at different times.

Speaker 2 (58:48):
That makes sense.

Speaker 15 (58:49):
Yeah, So mostly the front part, the prefrontal cortex, wakes
up first, and that's your alert system that you'll like
make decisions that you'll flight or right what we're going
to do. And then it's a sort of like a
wave and a few seconds later, the back of your brain,
which is your visual and your sensory part of your
wakes up later.

Speaker 2 (59:08):
And what they.

Speaker 15 (59:09):
Found is the reason why you feel bright and chirpy
or not is to do with which part of your
brain is waking up first, how fast it takes that
wave to ripple, and it was really interesting. So they
said that if you are waking up from an RAM
type of sleep, which is when you're sort of dreaming
where you remember some of your dreams, that is going

(59:31):
to be where you wake up groggy. And if you
wake up from a deep sleep, you're also going to
wake up groggy. And they measure this by these different
K waves and one and two type waves like that
technical stuff doesn't matter, but what they said is you
really need to be in a light sleep but not
dreaming to wake up fresh.

Speaker 2 (59:50):
And so they said, well.

Speaker 15 (59:50):
How do you do that, and they said, most people
when they set their alarm, they have a loud alarm
that startles them awake, right, and so what you're doing
is you're either in an RAM or you're in a
deep sleep, and then what you're going to do is
you're going to suddenly jot yourself awake and your brain
isn't ready for and that's what makes you wake up gruggy.
So they said, what we've learned is tricks for how

(01:00:11):
you wake up fresh every morning. So these tricks based
on this study are Number one, use a sleep tracker.
Now that you can get free apps on your phone
if you want to do this, or you can wear
one of these rings or whatever. Basically, what that does
is it trecks whether you're in em sleep, deep sleep
or light sleep, and it sets an alarm that only
gently goes off when you're in that light sleep stage.

(01:00:32):
So it's going to mean you wake up nice and fresh.
Number two, don't use a one off alarm that goes
beepn like hunks you awake. Use a gradual alarm or
what are those sunrise alarms? I don't know you've seen them,
but they start like putting a light onto your face
gently to wake you up slowly, because that's going to
allow your brain waves to transition slowly and naturally, rather
than jop you awaken like everything's on fire. Number three

(01:00:54):
usual consistency. Have a good sleep cycle, like it's good.
It's called sleep hygiene, and try and go to bed
at the same time, try and like, you know, not
have your phone in your bed.

Speaker 2 (01:01:01):
Blah blah blah.

Speaker 15 (01:01:03):
Number four, this is a good one. As soon as
you wake up up, sit up and stretch key key,
and you're like, well, why would you? And I watched
my dog do this all the time, like why is
it when my dog wakes up? But the first thing does.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
Is he stretches.

Speaker 15 (01:01:16):
Well, it's actually what it does is it's waking up
the back part of your brain much more quickly and
activating your brain wave to move from the front to
the back more quickly, which means that you're going to
wake up better. And number five, don't snooze. Don't snooze
because when you snooze, you end up falling back to
sleep and you can ed up lose, you lose, you
can end up in a deeper sleep pattern, which the
next time you wake up you're even more gruggy so

(01:01:37):
really easy. Basically, I love.

Speaker 2 (01:01:39):
The description of the brain waking up at different times,
because you know, sometimes you wake up and you're just
not sure what's going on you siddenly, I don't know.
I don't know what the dyer does, I don't know
what's it. And I feel so much more reassured by then,
and I'm just going to wake up and go You're
You're awake for a reason, and all become clear in
a moment. Just get up and streech and get up
and stretch. I like the idea too, of the gradual

(01:01:59):
alarm sounds, but I know exactly how that will go
and my house, which will mean that my partner will
use that, and it will probably go for two minutes
before he finally realizes, actually that's his alarm.

Speaker 15 (01:02:10):
My partner, and it goes for ten like it wakes
me up in the earliest setting, and then ten minutes
later he's like, oh, is that my alarm? I'm like yeah,
so yeah, if you are sharing a bed, if somebody
just know that, if somebody's a light sleeper me and
your partner isn't, it might take them a little while
to hear it.

Speaker 2 (01:02:27):
Is it common to dream. I don't know, I'm just thinking.
I'm often only because these are the dreams you remember,
the dreams that you have just before you wake up.
So it is quite common, I think, isn't it's a
dream just before.

Speaker 15 (01:02:37):
You Yeah, because you're in that iram late sleep stage,
and depending on where you wake up depends on whether
you remember it or not. So you want to be
in the light sleep, not the ram sleep, and then
you wake up fresh.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
So try it.

Speaker 15 (01:02:47):
Okay, tips, and it's current biology if you want to
read the science brilliant.

Speaker 2 (01:02:51):
Thank you so much, Michelle really appreciate it. So those tips.
Wake up at the right to sleep stage, use a
gradual alarm sounds. Consistency is key when it comes to
your sleep schedule. Get moving quickly, wake up, set up, stretch,
and don't snooze too much. I love thank you so much. Right,
lambs are in the paddock around where Mike vander Elsen lives,
so of course immediately he thought about eating them. So

(01:03:14):
he has a lovely lamb rib number coming your way.

Speaker 4 (01:03:17):
Next.

Speaker 2 (01:03:17):
It's twenty three to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:03:20):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News Talks FB.

Speaker 2 (01:03:27):
Thank you very much. For your Texas morning and love
you to hear so many of you enjoy the interview
with Helena bonhom Carter. Wonderful interview, Francis g Nal Williams
one of the best modern writers of our time. Can't
wait to see the movie, Oh Franchis Got a wonderful
Interview with Helena Ford Letters is an awesome movie. Enjoying
your day Jace's touch base from Queen Sound saying that

(01:03:49):
woman truly ranks amongst my top favorite actresses, her and
Dame Judy Dench and Maggie Smith. She's just a goddess.
In my very humble opinion, I'm going to be honest
with you, I am very very fortunate, very very privileged
in this job that I get to talk to some
very well known people. I don't get new. I don't
really get new about it all. There's only I've only
been nervous about an interview twice in my life. One

(01:04:11):
was Robbie Williams and the other one was Helen Bottomcarter.
It was just the voice she started talking, and I
was like, oh my gosh, it's her. It's just it's
just that voice in the way tks. So it was
a real treat for me to talk to her as well.
Someone just mentioned the Netflix show as well. We were
talking about Untamed I am halfway through excellent, awesome scenery.

(01:04:36):
The park is one of the main characters loved to
interview with HBC.

Speaker 16 (01:04:41):
I like that.

Speaker 2 (01:04:42):
I too, first saw her at the cinema in a
room with a view and revisit her self conscious, petulant
lucy from time to time. She's a powerhouse and a
consistently great watch, isn't she? Just yeah, No, it was
a real, real treat to talk to her right joining
me now though, Mike Van der Elsen, our resident chief,
Good morning.

Speaker 3 (01:05:01):
Do you get nervous when you interview me? No?

Speaker 2 (01:05:04):
So sorry, Ma, just just as important and and you know,
part of the show. So it is lovely to have
you with us, have you, I mean, I imagine that
you've probably met a lot of people in your career
as well. Who you Yes, you know very well known
celebrities and things like that. Have you ever got nervous?

Speaker 8 (01:05:23):
Yes? I did. I once cooked for Anthony boll Day
and I went up I went up upstairs afterwards, and
I was pouring his red wine and I was just
staring at him while he was talking to some friends
or some guests, and.

Speaker 6 (01:05:35):
I looked down.

Speaker 8 (01:05:36):
I realized I was totally missing the glass and I
was pouring the wine all over the table.

Speaker 2 (01:05:42):
So some people just have that impact effect on you.
Look this week. I love the fact that you looked
out into the paddocks and saw some lovely lambs bouncing
and frolicking around and your first thought was yep, clamoribs.
Has that a bad thought? Oh? It's the way we love, right,

(01:06:04):
It's you know, it's a practical. It's as practical as
Michelle said to me when she left. I just prefer
knowing just picking up my meat at the supermarket and
not thinking about this most of us do.

Speaker 8 (01:06:15):
Yes, well, the beauty about them, as they are going
to grow up into some delicious cuts of meat for it.
So just put lamb in my mind, and every week
I'm like, what should I talk about this week? And
I just keept on as we're driving the kids to school,
and there's just every day there was just more and
more of these little bouncing wonders.

Speaker 2 (01:06:31):
So do you normally have them around you at this time?

Speaker 8 (01:06:36):
Yes? Yeah, okay, yeah, it's probably I don't know, it's
probably a little bit early, but I feel that every
time I see them, I'm like, yes, spring is just
around the corner, and then what's after spring?

Speaker 6 (01:06:49):
Summer?

Speaker 8 (01:06:51):
I love.

Speaker 2 (01:06:51):
Yeah, a good point. I like that. So tell us
about lamb ribs.

Speaker 3 (01:06:58):
Yeah, you can.

Speaker 8 (01:06:59):
They're in, they'll be in. They're in most supermarkets. You
can see the lamb ribs. They'll just be like a
rack like you would have rack. They have heaps of
meat on them. And so I think people kind of
generally just go for lamb chops, which you could do
with this recipe as well, or we go to your
local watcher and just go he can have some lamb
ribs and they'll give you like a little rack. And

(01:07:22):
the racks are about six hundred grams, so you know
you could take one or two racks. This will feed
you as a as a delicious little start or a
snack or something you'd have with a barbecue with some
roast potatoes and a salad. So I've got six hundred
grams of lamb spear ribs. We can call them. Pop
them into a pop cold water five. I put in

(01:07:44):
some star and nise. Don't worry if you haven't gone it.
It just kind of adds in that nice little Asian
fusion flavor into it, tablespoon of salt, five bay leaves.
Bring that up to the boil, turn it down, simmer
it for about twenty minutes. These are real tender little ribs.
They don't take them long, so you know twenty minutes
is at the maximum end of it. After that time,
turn it off, drain your ribs, put them onto a tray,

(01:08:07):
let them cool down a little bit so you can
handle them, and then take some diesel mustard and the
dish mustards you'll glute. So brush those ribs with the
diesel mustard, and then here I've got a recipe here.
It's probably a bit long to run through. There's a
recipe here for Mike's house rub. So go through and
make that rub up and bulk sprinkle that generously over

(01:08:27):
your ribs, and then fire the ribs into the oven.
You can put them onto the barbecue as well. Preheat
your oven one hundred and eighty degrees or pre eat
your barb. You can put them on, close the lid.
They're going to take about twenty to thirty minutes, and
all you really want to do because the ribs are
already cooked. All you want to do is just render
out some of that fat that's in those ribs and
just start to get nice little crunchy bits on the

(01:08:48):
ends of them. After about thirty minutes, you can serve them.
I've got a super fast chili sauce into a blender,
goes two red chili's fresh, a pinch of allspice, a
can of whole your tomatoes, three tablespoons, a side of vinegar,
tablespoon of honey. Give that a good blitz with a
bunch of salt, and then serve that alongside your ribs.

(01:09:09):
And so you just take you little ribs, dip them
into that chili sauce, and away you go.

Speaker 2 (01:09:14):
Absolutely brilliant. Love it. Thank you so much, Mike. Look
forward to talking to you next week. I'll get a
little bit nervous next week in anticipation of our chat.

Speaker 8 (01:09:21):
I thought the voice would do it.

Speaker 2 (01:09:23):
You know, I'm just gonna leave it there, loving to
talk to you, Mike. Have a good week. We'll talk
to you next week. Of course, you can get that
recipe from good from Scratch dot Co. Dot in zaid,
we're going to get it up on our website news Talk,
saidb dot Co Dot and zaid Ford Slash Sunday. Hey,
just really quickly back on Four Letters of Love. A

(01:09:45):
lot of texts coming through about many of you saying
how much you loved it, And actually my mother text
me as well about it, and she said that she's
not sure she can see the film because she cried
so much reading the book. I just want to say
the book is that the film is really moving and
it's beautiful, but it's not tear jerker. It's also quite

(01:10:08):
funny and liked and there's a lot more to it.
Don't go to it because you think it's going to
be terribly upsetting and you're gonna cray always through it. Mum.
It's actually definitely worth seeing in a very if you
are a fan of the book. Quite tricky to adapt.
I think they've done a pretty good job of it. Anyway.
You can read a review. I wrote a review in
Canvas in the New Zealand Herald yesterday, or you'd be

(01:10:31):
able to see that online as well. Righty, Hope. The
Little Things, the podcast I do with my friend Louise
Air is back very shortly for its fifth season. We're
going to do a deep dive into supplements in this season,
But in the meantime, Aaron is with us next asking
the question what is actually in your supplements?

Speaker 1 (01:10:52):
That's next Sunday with Style, The Sunday Session with Francesca
Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great reads.

Speaker 3 (01:11:01):
Please talk Sevy.

Speaker 2 (01:11:10):
Wellness time now, and Aaron O'Hara joins us. Good morning,
Good morning. This is such an interesting topic you've got
for us today. We were just talking about the regulation
of supplements because I said to you, but hang on,
we've been working hard at trying to, you know, put
some regulation in place for supplements and things. Has that
not gone through? And you said to me, no, no,
the bill was thrown out.

Speaker 17 (01:11:31):
Yeah, the therapeutic Bill hasn't gone through. It's still in
work in progress. And it means that basically supplements are
not very regulated within New Zealand. Different countries have different
regulations and roles. Australia is actually really strict on supplements
and regulation and testing. New Zealand very free flowing. It
is not your dietary. Supplements that you buy are not

(01:11:54):
tested and like prescription drugs at all. So what's on
the label? Is it really in the bottle? Questionable? But
they're in New Zealand. With medsafe. The only thing they
do regulate is an ingredient. So for instance, zinc, you
only allowed fifteen miligrams a day, which as a practitioner
I usually sometimes would use more than that, but it

(01:12:15):
is regulated that the tablet can only have fifteen miligrams,
So they regulate what ingredients can go into it, and
it might.

Speaker 2 (01:12:22):
Be checked off.

Speaker 17 (01:12:23):
However, what is actually in the supplement itself, is it
actually tested and it's not a New Zealand at this stage.

Speaker 2 (01:12:30):
And there was a particular sort of controversy this week,
wasn't there.

Speaker 17 (01:12:34):
Yeah, So there was the creating supplement from push gummies
and somebody independently tested it. And what they found when
they independently tested these gummies is actually they contained virtually
no creating in them. So people were taking them and
literally just eating lollies because their creating content was not

(01:12:54):
in there. And that just shows you how what people
are making and manufacturing because there's no strict regulation, not
like the pharmaceutical drug. If you're taking a drug, you
know what is in it because it has been tested.
When it comes to the supplement, what you think you're
taking is that really what's in it and is it

(01:13:15):
the actual bioavailability to the body, And that's where there's
a big gap in testing in New Zealand. So when
you are if you are wanting to take supplements, you
really want to be cautious what you're taking because you
really don't know what's in it, and that's where there
can be mislabeling. And there's numerous studies done around supplements
and mislabeling of what it says on the bottle is

(01:13:37):
not really in the tablet, as well as contamination of supplements,
so if they've made in a manufacturing line. There's some
interesting studies I read around supplements that actually contain viagra
which shouldn't have because they were manufactured on the same life.
Is so interesting how you can get those contaminants within
the supplements as well as well as things like heavy

(01:13:59):
metals which you might not think I'm taking a supplement
and oh no, now I'm taking heavy metals coming in
through the supplements as well, and they can be really
poor manufacturing practices when it comes to manufacturing supplements compared
to our pharmaceutical drugs.

Speaker 2 (01:14:15):
So then how do we make a good choice about
purchasing quality vitamins and vitamins and supplements, and.

Speaker 17 (01:14:21):
That's where it's not kind of getting sucked into social media.
There can be a real thing that we can get
sucked into. So looking for reptable brands that you know
and that maybe have third party testing. So before you
buy a supplement, go, okay, where was this manufactured? Is
there any extra testing done? Personally, I like to use
lots of supplements that come from high quality companies but

(01:14:46):
also are tested through the TDA, which is actually the
Australian governing body for therapeutic goods, so they have very
strictch regulations over there round testing and labeling the what's
in it is really in it, So I think looking
at where are the supplements coming from. Generally if they're
coming from America, free flow for all, so you might

(01:15:08):
not get what is actually meant to be in their
capsule in there, So being a little bit more cautious
around those sorts of things, and you can look for
things like certificates of analysis, which is something that I'd
usually suggests, especially if you're a professional athlete, because you
obviously don't want to contain things that are illegal drugs
within your all things that are not allowed for sporting

(01:15:31):
performance that are in your supplements, and that's where they
have to be really careful around the testing of supplements,
so really looking into what you're taking and where it's
manufactured and whether it contains the actual ingredient. And you
can look through independent testings and there's certain websites through
independent testing and consumer websites you can look at for

(01:15:54):
checking that the supplements are actually manufactured at high quality, brilliant.

Speaker 2 (01:15:58):
Thank you so much, erin very much appreciated. It is
six to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:16:02):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio Power by
News Talks.

Speaker 3 (01:16:07):
It'd be.

Speaker 2 (01:16:11):
Thank you very much for your text Somebody text us
say which ones had viagram asking for a friend, so
we have no idea. Thank you very much for your texts.
So this is the incredible voice of Margo Timmins, the
lead singer of the band Cowboy Junkies. They're heading New
Zealand in November to celebrate forty years since their first
album released. They're one of the few bands in the
world who have never broken up, taken a break, or

(01:16:33):
changed their line up during their time. Can you think
of a few others that might have done that? There's
not that many, so she joins me to talk about
how the band makes it work and what keeps them going.
That's next here on News Talks.

Speaker 3 (01:16:44):
At ben.

Speaker 18 (01:16:50):
People Justly.

Speaker 1 (01:16:59):
My son.

Speaker 4 (01:17:11):
Ello John.

Speaker 1 (01:17:18):
Hellowhere, Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca Rutkin and
Wiggles for the best selection of great reeds used to it.

Speaker 2 (01:17:45):
It is seven past eleven here on the Sunday Session.
Right coming up this our travel correspondent Meghan Singleton. It's
live from a very muggy Bangkock pioneers with us with
his thoughts on around the Lackluster or Black's performance last night,
and Joan gives us her thoughts on Steve Braunius's Poking
Horn book.

Speaker 3 (01:18:04):
The Sunday Session.

Speaker 2 (01:18:08):
Sech Speech the very distinctive sound of Canadian alternative country
folk rock band The Cowboy Junkies. This year, the band
is celebrating forty years together and quite incredibly, their lineup
remains unchanged in that entire time. They haven't even taken

(01:18:29):
a break as a band, which is something very rare
for the music industry. The band is made up of
Margo Timmans, her brothers Michael and Peter, and longtime friend
Allan Anton. The Cowboy Junkies head back here in November
for their fortieth anniversary celebration tour, and lead singer Margo
Timmins joins me. Now, good morning, Margo, thank you so
much for joining me.

Speaker 18 (01:18:50):
Well, thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (01:18:51):
Your last tour here was in twenty twenty three, and
that was the first time touring New Zealand since nineteen
ninety nine. And now you're returning after only two years.
It was sort of twenty year gap and now only
a two year gap. Was there something in the twenty
twenty three visit that's made you want to return so quickly?

Speaker 6 (01:19:09):
Oh?

Speaker 18 (01:19:10):
Well, we had such a good time. The audiences were amazing,
so you know, we always wanted to get back, but
you know, in that twenty year gap, but there was
life got in the way. And then when we got
back in twenty three, it was just so overwhelming and
so much fun, and we enjoyed not only playing in

(01:19:31):
the audiences, but also the country, especially in New Zealand.
It's just overwhelmingly beautiful. I think everybody's taking a holiday
either before or afterwards so they can see more of
your country.

Speaker 2 (01:19:42):
I'm pleased to hear that the tour is a forty
year anniversary tour, which is kind of incredible. Forty years ago,
starting out in Toronto in the eighties, did you imagine
that you would still be touring the world in twenty
twenty five.

Speaker 18 (01:19:58):
No, Yeah, it's pretty crazy to think back that it's
been forty years. I mean those early days, you know,
when we put out Whites Off Earth Now, and I
certainly remember holding that album in my hand and being
so overwhelmed that I had an album, you know, let alone.

(01:20:20):
I certainly didn't think I'd still be around forty years later.
So yeah, it's pretty it's pretty crazy.

Speaker 2 (01:20:29):
We all change as we age. How has forty years
changed the band?

Speaker 18 (01:20:35):
Well, I definitely, I hope hopefully. I believe we are
much better players. I think, you know, the way I
would describe us now as a band is that we
breathe together. You know, we all know, you know, somebody
wants to take a song in a direction. We go, Okay,

(01:20:56):
he's going there. I'm going to go with him and
be able to do it really seamlessly, and which makes
the playing so much more fun. You know, some of
these songs we've were playing are forty years old. But
we're still enjoy playing them because they can go wherever
we take them, and and I love that. I find

(01:21:17):
the playing so much more fun than it ever was.
I also think as you age, just personally, you know,
you you stop, you stop worrying about all the little
stuff like you know, what you look like, and how
many people are here, and who's in the audience or
who isn't in the audience. You're just you're just playing

(01:21:37):
your show. And so it's just all about the music now,
not about the business, not about the look or anything else.
And that's that's that's a freedom, a real freedom.

Speaker 2 (01:21:48):
Was that ever a huge concern to you? I always
sort of felt that the Cowboy Junkies were very was
a band that was very much themselves. That they didn't
cater to sort of what the industry expected of them
or to look a certain way and things. But obviously
there was some pressure there maybe earlier on.

Speaker 18 (01:22:11):
Definitely there was a lot, especially with me. You know,
I I I got a lot of attention as a female.
You know, I got my picture taken a lot, and
I and they wanted me to do a lot of things,
you know, I got movie scripts and I think you know,

(01:22:32):
Clara offered me a hair commercial. You know, I just
shake my head in my hair. But it wasn't me.
And of course our management and our record companies wanted
me to do that, because the more you do, the
bigger you are and the more people will hear your music.
But I never felt comfortable. My brothers never ever pushed

(01:22:52):
me in any way. We always just did whatever felt
normal or natural or are not embarrassing, we did. And
anything that felt awkward, we just we just didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:05):
We just us.

Speaker 18 (01:23:06):
We didn't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:23:08):
One thing I think is quite incredible about you guys
is that over these forty years you've never broken up.
I don't believe you've taken a break. I don't know
if there are that many bands who could have gone
this long without a bit of a change in the lineup.

Speaker 18 (01:23:24):
Yeah, well, you know years ago, you know I was
years ago. It means ten years ago, which probably means
twenty years ago. The Rolling Stone for an article of
sort of you know, bands that have had the same singer,
bands who've done this, and there was one category, which
is bands that have lasted over twenty years or something

(01:23:45):
that have had the same lineup and it was us,
Ero Smith and U two, So you know, it was
pretty it was pretty pretty amazing to really think about it,
that there aren't a lot of bands that haven't had
people quit or the band has stopped and you know, restarted,

(01:24:09):
reunioned tours and all that, but have stayed together constantly. Yeah,
it's pretty rare, it is.

Speaker 2 (01:24:15):
So what is the key to staying together as a band.

Speaker 18 (01:24:20):
I don't know, But for us, I think I'm not
gonna say we've never had conflict. Of course we have,
but I think we've always kept what's the most important
thing to us, which has always been playing. And I
think we've always appreciated that what we do as Cowboy

(01:24:41):
Junkies is because of the four of us. It's yes,
I could go off and sing with another band, and
I'm sure I would enjoy it very much, but it
wouldn't be couble of junkies that you know. We could
change the bass player and that would be great and
he'd be a great place payer, but it wouldn't.

Speaker 10 (01:24:56):
Be what we four do.

Speaker 18 (01:24:58):
And I think it's the four of us together. You know,
maybe we're crazy, but that's what we believe. And we
still still get a lot of pleasure out of it. Uh,
you know, like I was saying, even more so now,
I think than we ever did. So I think we
when we're when we're not happy, we talk things out

(01:25:18):
and because we just we just don't want it to end.
Yet you know it's not. It's not over, So some
stupid disagreement isn't worth worth blowing us up.

Speaker 2 (01:25:28):
What is it being like to work so closely and
remain so close to your brothers?

Speaker 18 (01:25:35):
Yeah, I mean I find that the most amazing thing,
you know, because we do spend so much time together.
I mean, I'm up here at a cottage with my
brother Pete, who's the drummer. You think, you know, don't
you get enough time with each other? I don't know.
We enjoy each other's company, you know. And and again

(01:25:55):
I think there's a lot of respect for each other.
So so we you know, we're not children anymore. We're
trying to dominate each other with our or whatever, uh
you know, our attitude, And yeah, we we do. We
enjoy each other's company, so that's nice. And we also
enjoy each other's spouses company, which is even nicer. So

(01:26:18):
we are lucky that way.

Speaker 2 (01:26:22):
Did you all grow up with sort of similar taste
in music or similar inspirations. We've seen some of the
inspirations that you've had as a band on the album
songs of the Recollections. But was music prominent in your
household growing.

Speaker 18 (01:26:33):
Up, Yes, very much. I mean we weren't a band that,
you know where like a lot of Canadian especially East
Coast Canadians, where you you know, you grow up and
everybody plays me, you know, an instrument and gets it together.
We were never that that family. But my dad loved music,
and our dad loved music, and when he came home

(01:26:55):
from work, the first thing you do was go to
is reel to reel and put on some music and
then he come and say hello to everybody. And I
think he really instilled in us that how music is
so important to just get through life and it's the
thing that allows you to express yourself and to let
go of any you know, demons or whatever. So we

(01:27:20):
had that, and my dad also really believed that each
of us had our own tastes, so you know, he
never sort of put he might not have liked what
we were listening to, but he never sort of put
it down, you know. And so when we were young, Christmas,
especially when we were teenagers there were six kids. You
always call it a flat Christmas because under the tree,

(01:27:43):
our gifts to each other would all be albums, just
be you know, and and basically you bought the album
you wanted and then it would be in the house.
And that way, you know, we'd be sharing out each
other's albums, and you know that they all wanted would
be somewhere in the house, somebody's room.

Speaker 3 (01:28:02):
So it was it was.

Speaker 18 (01:28:03):
Yes, music was very important to us as kids and stayed.
And then you know, Mike and I were at the
punk era age, so we saw a lot of the
great punk bands in the in the seventies, and and
and al al as well. We were all of the same.
You know, we'd hang out together watching driving to New

(01:28:24):
York City to see a band and turning around driving
back to get to work the next day. It was
pretty pretty intense time. So we went through that era together,
which I think inspired a lot of what's in Kewboy Junkies.
Not that we're a punk band, but I think our
attitude is a punk band, and that whatever we want
to do is what we're going to do, and hopefully

(01:28:45):
somebody will like it or not.

Speaker 2 (01:28:47):
I read that you said that you used to be
nervous on stage, but it's now one of your most
comfortable places. How long did that take to change?

Speaker 18 (01:28:56):
A while? You know, definitely after Trinity Session a caution
horses still nervous Black Eyed Man, And you know, I
think a big turn came in when we toured Black
Eyed Man. We toured with John Prime and we were

(01:29:17):
sharing the bill and I got to know John very well,
and he was so Watching him on stage was just inspirational.
He just he was like he was walking into his
living room and his attitude was always to give a
good show. But they didn't like it. He didn't care,
you know, whatever, not his Problemly did his best and

(01:29:39):
I would go out every night and sing Angels from
Montgomery with him and he'd come on to my stage,
and I think that was huge for me. I think
that's when I began to realize, you know, do my best,
and whatever happens happens, and not to worry about it
so much, and to let the audience see a little
bit more of me, you know, which you know, I'm

(01:30:00):
not shy, I never was, but standing in front of
an audience didn't feel that comfortable, you know, and so
I began chatting. Now they can't shut me up.

Speaker 2 (01:30:13):
Mike, you mentioned that when you come to New Zealand
you're a going to sort of try and take a
holiday here around the tour. Are you going to get
some fly fishing in while you're here.

Speaker 18 (01:30:21):
Well, my brother Mike's a huge fly fisherman, and I
know last time he did that, he and Jeff went
off before our tour and did a lot of fishing.
I think this time he's coming with his wife, so
I don't think there'll be much fishing.

Speaker 2 (01:30:40):
It's nice to have a hobby that you can engage
with while you're on tour. Doesn't it just to sort
of take you out of the grind? I suppose, Yeah,
I mean I think Mike has most of that.

Speaker 18 (01:30:50):
You know, his fishing takes some into the woods, you know,
out of the cities, which is a wonderful thing. You know,
a lot of us definitely try to go to countries
either before or after, to spend more time hanging out
and seeing more than just the cities because on tour
that's where you are. Yeah, I mean, I think travel

(01:31:12):
is something we all enjoy and meeting new people and
the different people and it becomes a big part of
who you are when you're constantly doing it like we are.

Speaker 2 (01:31:24):
Mago, thank you so much for your time today. Really
appreciate it and we really look forward to seeing you
in New Zealand and November.

Speaker 18 (01:31:31):
Well, we can't wait.

Speaker 2 (01:31:32):
That was Margo Timmins, lead singer of the Cowboy Junkies
and as I mentioned, Margo and the band will be
in November in New Zealand this November for an evening
with a Cowboy Junkie celebrating forty years. Tickets are on
sale now. Coming up next, we've got the panel. It
is twenty one past eleven.

Speaker 3 (01:31:48):
Keep it's simple. It's Sunday, the Sunday.

Speaker 1 (01:31:50):
Session with Francesca Rutgater and Wiggles for the best selection
of great breathings, news talks end be.

Speaker 2 (01:31:58):
And it is time for the panel. And joining me
this morning a partner at Freebahn and Heir Lawyers. Liam Here.
Good morning, Liam, goody, good thank you. We're also joined
by journalist, type, producer and commentator Irene Gardner. Hi, Irene, Hi,
thank you, scho Kyoda, thank you both for being with us.
So this week we saw the government and open playing
classrooms in schools. Oh, little clap coming from me for that.

(01:32:23):
And today we hear that there are significant concerns around
NCEEA and changes are being mulled over. In fact, we've
been told that all options are on the table. Both
issues have been I think spoken about quite a lot.
So Liam, how much pressure is there on the government
to get this right?

Speaker 6 (01:32:43):
Oh, I'm not sure how much pressure there is, but
there should be pressure to get it right because the
current system are so confusing. I'm lucky right because I
was the last year to the school see some of
the before ENVA came in. And finally that I was
trying through some old papers yesterday the other day and
I found my school see six certificate and bursary.

Speaker 18 (01:33:05):
Mark.

Speaker 2 (01:33:06):
Well done?

Speaker 4 (01:33:07):
Were they?

Speaker 17 (01:33:07):
Were?

Speaker 2 (01:33:07):
They as impressive as you remember.

Speaker 6 (01:33:11):
I've done better at some of them, but you know
it was you know, I could show someone that, like
they could see my proficiency. Whereas as an employer now,
the NCAA is just is just meaningless. I've got an
idea of what it even means. And my younger brothers
and sisters said the same thing. It changed from year
to year. They continue to tingle with it. And change

(01:33:31):
it all the time. It's just not a it's not
a useful standard. It's not a useful standard, and so
they should be under pressure to actually put in place
a durable system that actually tells people what people can
account and do, what they could and couldn't do it.

Speaker 2 (01:33:44):
But for some people them it is a perfectly good
standard because it gets them into med school, it gets
them into law school, it gets them into engineering. They're
getting to where they need to go. And then actually
it becomes pretty much irrelevant.

Speaker 6 (01:33:55):
Well yes, apart from the fact that it pushes out
the sort of the gatekeeping. It pushes out the drafting
gate of what's proficient from in high school qualification through
to you know, she's having a bachelor's degree.

Speaker 4 (01:34:07):
Yea.

Speaker 6 (01:34:08):
So in a lot of ways, having a bachelor's degree
is the function that actually the college education school seeis
and certificate and birthry you still actually provide, so you
can't tell from what they did at school anymore. So
you have to go up next to all the university
and that's part of what feeds into this huge swelling
of university degrees that don't always end up in jobs

(01:34:29):
that need university degrees.

Speaker 2 (01:34:31):
Yeah, it's interesting, iron I mean, I've got one kid
who's just finished school and is a university and will
probably never think of NCAA again, and my daughter who
is in her final year, and so we've gone through it,
and I think there's a couple of things. One, it is,
as Liam said, it's impossible to understand. It needs to
be simplified and communicated better. But I wonder whether it's
about and I think that we need to be really

(01:34:52):
focusing down on some core academic subjects. But on top
of that, I think the most important thing isn't necessarily
fixing the structure of it, is making sure that it's
been delivered really well. I think it's about putting our
investment into the people who deliver the system. We need
good teachers. Mike Kids will say to you, doesn't matter
how it's structure, it doesn't matter what it is, you

(01:35:12):
just need a good teacher. That is the most important thing.

Speaker 16 (01:35:16):
I tend to agree with that. And I'm always nervous
when politicians talk about, you know, something can't be fixed,
it needs to be completely redone. Yes, that may well
be sometimes true, but I tend to be more of
a sort of pragmatic incrementalist where look at what's actually working,

(01:35:37):
look at what's not and fix it and make it work,
because just throwing everything out and starting again can be
just so disruptive. And I don't think our education system
needs any more disruption. I think you're right. I think
a lot of emphasis on the right people, get sensible

(01:35:57):
teachers involved in whatever tweaks we're making. And this is
also this is my real hobby horse at the moment.
There are quite a few social things that absolutely need
to be cross party for our future so that they
cannot be a political football, and this is one of them.
If this is changing, being fixed whatever, we're then sticking

(01:36:18):
with that and enhancing it. We're not changing it every
time we change government.

Speaker 4 (01:36:23):
Liam.

Speaker 2 (01:36:24):
I'm really interested to get your opinion on this next
topic I want to talk about, and this is that
the UK is lowering its voting age to sixteen and
it's something which has been discussed here in New Zealand
quite a lot. And I basically ask sixteen year olds.
They are the ones that have informed me as to
what they think whether we should reduce the age, and
they all look at me and go, hell, no.

Speaker 4 (01:36:46):
What do you think?

Speaker 2 (01:36:47):
Do you think we should be being progressive and lowering
our voting age.

Speaker 6 (01:36:52):
If you google, they are here voting age. Yeah, you'll
find I having introduced one of this topic dozens and
dozens of times. And the reason is is because the
the on media struggles to find pundits who will go
on the news and say that you shouldn't lower the
voting age to sixteen, that we should keep it as
voting being something for adults, not for older children. And

(01:37:12):
that's amazing because all the polling, without exception, all of
it shows a massive, massive majority against lowering the voting
age in New Zealand, not like sixty percent against seventy
eighty eighty five percent against lowering the voting age. It's
just so far against common sense. You know, it's voting

(01:37:32):
is for most people, it's considered a part of being
an adult, not part of being a child. Now, there's
always gonna accusations that the reason why some parties want
to lower the voting age and why some people don't,
it's because you know, there's a political you know, the
idea that young people are probably more to the left.
I'm not so concerned about that. Actually, you know, young

(01:37:54):
people will the politics will always calibrate. One of the
reasons don't trump one was because young people swung behind
him in the last selection. But to me, I believe
in keeping. I believe that there's a line between a
childhood and adulthood, and that part of being adult is
to take responsibility for those things and not to put
them on to children. That children should enjoy, not caring

(01:38:17):
that politics, not being into politics for as long as
they can, because you have your whole life to worry
about politics. You only have eighteen years to have a
sort of heavy childhood.

Speaker 2 (01:38:27):
I mean, I mean, I tend to agree with Liam,
but for slightly different reasons. My whole thing is my
kids will tell me that maybe one out of ten
sixteen year olds is really engaged in politics, understands it
would actually contribute to voting. The rest of them aren't

(01:38:48):
even thinking about it, and they've got a whole lot
of other things on their minds and a whole lot
of other things taking their focus. Hence it's you know,
they're just not interested.

Speaker 16 (01:38:57):
I look at it a little differently. I think I
would have been ready to vote at sixteen. I was
really interested in politics, and I think even if it
is only one in ten are interested and take the
opportunity that. I think it's a good way of actually
doing what we need to do, which is get some
critical thinking and some understanding of how things work into

(01:39:20):
younger people. It's in New Zealand, it isn't compulsory to brote,
so it's not like they're going to have to. But
if they want to, I think they should be able to.
You know, I'm quite an advocate for making it sixteen.
And yes, I mean technically you're child at sixteen, but
you know, you can get married, you can have a job,
to quite a lot of things that are pretty adult.

Speaker 6 (01:39:41):
I mean, well you're strictly you're a strict some hell
of a lot too, like including having a drink at
a pub without your parents being present. You can't own land,
you can't actually in terms of a binding contract that
can be forced against other people. We are different ages
for different things, but eighteen is really the age of adulthood.
I think the direction that we're moving in is we
get with God and rid of the ability to get married.

(01:40:03):
That's ax theeen with torrental consent with you know, we're
pushing out responsibility for criminal X further and further. We're
talking about how people's brains can't develop properly, they can't
be held responsible. I think you do something as you
do to align childhood or minority in adulthood.

Speaker 2 (01:40:21):
I think it's interesting.

Speaker 16 (01:40:22):
I voted at sixteen.

Speaker 6 (01:40:23):
Yeah, and look, I could have got my draa of
im at fourteen. I grew up on a farm. There
are rules only really can be individual wise.

Speaker 2 (01:40:32):
Wow, yeah, I mean I am off now. I'm a
bit with you, Irene. I've got one kid who could
have voted at sixteen, and one who I now see
is very much ready to vote at eighteen. They're all
everyone's different, aren't they. Hell, look really quickly, Irene. Would
you buy a ticket for a movie a year out
before it's released.

Speaker 16 (01:40:52):
I can't see why not, because I do that all
the time for music concerts, and it's completely normal. I'm
not a big movie goer. I tend to watch them
at home. But it was something really special, and you've
got on them. It's a it's a good it's a
good hyping.

Speaker 2 (01:41:07):
Yes, So this, well, that's interesting. This is sort of
being done for Christopher Nolan's new film it's called The Odyssey,
which is still shooting Liam, it's not even ready to go.
GI give me where near a cinema. I get it
for the concert, Irene, because you have to buy the
ticket quickly because they sell out. But there's going to
be lots of time for me to buy. If I
bought a ticket now, Liam, for a movie in a
year's time, I'll probably just completely forget that i'd even

(01:41:27):
purchase it.

Speaker 6 (01:41:28):
Yeah, I'm with your son. I'm I'm a Krystin Olan
fan like I love. Even think Cristinal Oland puts out
a watch, I'll watch it as soon as I can.
But movies aren't scarce, you know. I think you're hit
the nail of the head. You know, constant tickets are scarce.
There's competition for them. There's the movie you can go
to movie etail you want. Why would you give up
six and all they in the future when.

Speaker 2 (01:41:48):
You can have it in the future. No, look, I can't,
don't get me wrong. I can't wait to see the film,
but I probably Yeah, I just lose that ticket in
a box. Thank you so much, Irene Gardner and Liam
here really appreciate your time. Jason Pine is up next
with Weekends with the Sport.

Speaker 1 (01:42:08):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on news talks
at BRUE.

Speaker 2 (01:42:26):
Coming up at midday, we have got Jason Paine with
Weekend Sport and he is with me now. Good morning,
good morning, Okay, So what did you make of that
All Blacks performance last night?

Speaker 19 (01:42:35):
Well, I think they got the three nil series win.
I think there's plenty to work on. I think they'll
need a big step up for the Rugby Championship. I
think they'll tick a few boxes, but they'll certainly have
a bit of thinking to do over the next month
or so.

Speaker 2 (01:42:49):
Are we ready for the Championship?

Speaker 19 (01:42:51):
I guess we'll find out in about a month on
the evidence of last night. Look, I put it this way,
if they play like they did last night against South Africa,
they won't win. I think that is a generally accepted view.
Over the last three weeks, they've been very intent on
giving players games. Scott Robertson said at the start of
the series he wanted to give everybody a game. He

(01:43:11):
made ten changes last night, so I guess what we
now wait to find out is whether he's landed on
his best fifteen. I think there are still a few
live conversations in that and yeah, have they have they
developed enough of these players to get themselves ready for
some pretty big challenges ahead.

Speaker 2 (01:43:30):
I'll tell you what worries me, and that's the month
long wait before they kind of quick into it again, you.

Speaker 19 (01:43:35):
Know, yeah, yeah, after yeah, but then after that they've
got four big tests and five weeks they go to Argentina,
play two over there and they'll be pretty stiff competition.
Then back over those two massive tests against South Africa.
So across the space of five weekends, it's four tests
and the travel to and from South America. So yeah,

(01:43:56):
they probably need the month off.

Speaker 2 (01:43:57):
I know we don't, but they probably do. Okay, you've
been very kind about them today, Pliny. Will you be
talking Rugby this afternoon?

Speaker 19 (01:44:04):
Absolutely yes, indeed, Scott Hanson, the coach or one off
after mid day. Steve Gordon, who provided our expert comments
last night, also on the show. Yeah, I want to
want to talk to to to our audience. They've always
got plenty of feedback around the All Blacks. Look, look,
I don't know whether I'm being kind or not being kind,
and not sure what I should feel after last night.
They were always I think anyway, going to beat France.

(01:44:26):
They had one really good performance in Wellington, a couple
that I'm sure they'll you know, they'll reflect and review
in Dunedin and again last night in Hamilton. So yeah, look,
if we get to the end of the Rugby Championship
in New Zealand have beaten South Africa in two test
matches here, we won't be talking about July.

Speaker 2 (01:44:42):
No, we won't be. No, you're right. Hey, the Warriors
are playing the Knights this evening at six five pm.
And I'll tell you what. If I was running the Knights,
I'd probably been making a call going, oh, guys, could
we please postpone this? Could we do this at another time?
Because I believe that the majority of the team will
ten players have gone down with some virus.

Speaker 3 (01:45:00):
I saw that as well.

Speaker 19 (01:45:02):
I'm not sure whether there's any any precedent around. You know,
if you if your team gets sick that you can't play.
Look at our All Blacks in nineteen ninety five when
they had food poisoning.

Speaker 2 (01:45:10):
Just feel so hard, right, ten players? It does, it does,
but you're going.

Speaker 12 (01:45:15):
To do it.

Speaker 19 (01:45:16):
You got next man up mentality, right, Yeah, So look
that all the Warriors can do is play. What's in
front of them, so hopefully they can make it back
to back victories and consolidate their spot in the top four.
They also just wanted to mention Olivia mctaggett, one of
our pole vaulters, who overnight set a new PB four
meters seventy three and won the Diamond League event in London.

(01:45:38):
This is probably her most significant performance. It also qualifies
her for the World CHAM so looking forward to having
a chat to her this afternoon as well.

Speaker 2 (01:45:45):
Fantastic, so am I thank you so much, Jason. Jason
will be back at midday with Weekend Sport.

Speaker 1 (01:45:51):
The Sunday Session Full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News Talks, AB Travel.

Speaker 3 (01:45:58):
With Wendy Woo Tours Where the World is Yours book
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Speaker 2 (01:46:20):
Coming to us live from Bangkok, Tymeland, Megan Singleton and
our travel second.

Speaker 4 (01:46:24):
Good morning, so ad Car, that was good. That was hello.

Speaker 2 (01:46:29):
Back to you, Thank you and to you too. Pretty
muggy this morning.

Speaker 4 (01:46:35):
Yeah, it's pretty muggy. The windows are foggy on the outside.
It's six forty am, Francisco. I've been warming up my
voice for twenty minutes to talk to you. With a
couple of instant nest cafe. But so I haven't been
outside this morning, but the sun is up, the city's awake,
and it is a muggy time of year. This is
about the winter they call it. They said your winters,

(01:46:57):
our winters are hotter than your summers, and they're quite right.
It's thirty to thirty three degrees, but it's that's sort
of the temperature year round. Give will take three degrees.
But it's the humidity that they get in this rainy season. However,
we have not been impeded by that at all. There's
sort of been a downpoll maybe once a day, but
not for too long. You know, you can find a

(01:47:17):
good shopping mall or a good cocktail bar or something
like that.

Speaker 2 (01:47:21):
Du So why do you choose to travel at this
time of the year.

Speaker 4 (01:47:25):
It's much more affordable. So we are staying at the
Shangrila Hotel on the river, the Shall Prayer River in Bangkok.
In I can't remember the prices because we did book
about ten rooms. I'm here on hosting a tour, but
it's really affordable. I feel like it's under five hundred
dollars a night, including the most amazing breakfast and from
the river you can take these water taxis. They've got

(01:47:48):
a complimentary water taxi that takes you across the river
to an amazing shopping mall. You can do a riverboat
cruise dinner, which we did on the first night, which
is just outstanding. But it's just such a fun and
busy river. We can sit riverside, We've done that every night,
have a cocktail. We've got the pool right there. So

(01:48:08):
I totally recommend a riverside hotel in Bankok. I've stayed
here about four or five times. And when you're in
the city, further into the city it really is a jungle.
But out here on the river it's a breeze. Yeah,
it feels like the city breeds over here.

Speaker 2 (01:48:22):
So right, So, yeah, the river is the river appealing
because when you travel down it's sort of the architecture
and things around you is amazing, or just because it's
a bustling place where there's.

Speaker 16 (01:48:33):
A lot going on.

Speaker 4 (01:48:35):
Yeah, it's bustling, and you can get around on the river,
whereas the streets are jam packed and you can barely
get a top took through. So on the river you
can scoot down on these water taxis and you can
be across at the mall in five minutes, whereas we
took a train to another mall and that was the
train was good fun. But if you were taking a taxi,
you know you'd be stuck in traffic for an hour. Yes,

(01:48:56):
we did take the skytrain to Siam Paragon Mall, so
we live opposite right now. We live ipon Siam Mall,
which is six floors and and just wonderful. But there's
lots of shopping walls, so the girls are loving the shopping.
But yesterday we went to the railway market. I don't
know if you've ever seen that, where the train comes
through literally on top of the stallholders goods and they

(01:49:19):
have to pull back their awnings and you stand back
slithering up against the wall to take a photo without
being hit by the train. We did that yesterday. Everyone's
not travel insurance, Francesca. And then we went to the
floating markets where we bought a beer from a long boat.
And I've taken them on a tiktook Micheline Food Michelin

(01:49:42):
Street food tour through Chinatown on tiktooks and that was fun.
Speeding through the city. Later at night, around the Palace,
the Golden Palace, which the streets were quite empty at
the end, So that's been another great highlight. And you
last night we had the most amazing cocktail. Was that
what you were just about going to say?

Speaker 2 (01:50:00):
I was because it wouldn't be a travel segment with
Hugh Megan if you hadn't told us about you know
what You've eaten and drunk.

Speaker 4 (01:50:08):
On the top of the Laboua Tower, the sixty fourth
floor is the skybar. It featured in Hangover. I think
it was Hangover with Bradley Cooper and the cocktails are
about seventy five New Zealand dollars each, so I had
to take the girls up there for at least one
and that was all we could have fallen off. We
scuttled back down again, but it was outstanding, the best

(01:50:28):
views across the city. It's literally a walking distance from
where we are staying here at the Chagri La. A
lot of people have had clothes made, We've had massages
every day cheap ones. It's been amazing and then this
morning we're off to posta Boe.

Speaker 2 (01:50:44):
Fantastic. We should look forward to catching up with you
next week. Travel safe, Meghan, and of course, as Meghan
travel shall be putting up blogs at blogger at large
dot com. It is eleven to twelve.

Speaker 1 (01:50:56):
Books with wiggles for the best selection of Grape Reads.

Speaker 2 (01:51:01):
Joe McKenzie, good morning, Hello, tell me about this new
book from Gina Butson.

Speaker 20 (01:51:07):
Yeah, Gina is a local writer. I'm not sure where
she lives, but she did her air MA and creative
writing in Wellington and her new book is called The
Stars Are a Million Glittering Worlds, which is a lovely title,
and it's the story of a young woman named Thea who,
at the beginning of the book is trying to get
to grips with a tragedy in her life, which eventually

(01:51:27):
sends her out into the world, running away from it,
but running towards what. She's not quite sure. So she
buys herself in around the World ticket and she goes
to Asia and then to Central America and ends up
in Guatemala, where she meets a couple of other young
travelers and the three of them develop a very close friendship.
They're all outsiders in a small community. But then she

(01:51:50):
decides to move on. She's got her eyes homeward. There's
a lot of themes about home in this book, the
importance of a home, of being away from it, wanting
to get back, but she moves on. She's still traveling
when tragedy strikes again and everything is just too hard
to confront. On way home, she decides to call into
Tasmania to catch up with one of the people with

(01:52:12):
whom she had this close friendship in Guatemala, and as
I say, she's got her eyes on New Zealand, but
she never quite makes it back. It's a book about
being responsible when things go bad and finding how hard
things are when you're out in the world on your
own and you don't really have a place to be
that feels like the right place for you.

Speaker 2 (01:52:33):
I imagine Geena's done a lot of traveling.

Speaker 20 (01:52:35):
I imagine so and inty fact genuine yes, And in
the acknowledgments at the end of the book she does
reference some people that she knew when she traveled.

Speaker 2 (01:52:44):
Oh there we go, right, You're also going to talk
about Steve Brunis's new book, Polkinghorn, And of course Steve
Bornis was on the show last weekend. He is so
good at writing true crime.

Speaker 18 (01:52:55):
Yeah.

Speaker 20 (01:52:56):
I think I've said this before, but I think that
Steve is one of our finest writers. He is quite extraordinary.
He's always eloquent, he's incredibly compassionate, and he's very human
in the work that he writes. Of course, people will
know that he covered the Philip Pulkinghorn trial for the
New Zealand Herald, and like a lot of other people,

(01:53:16):
I read every single thing he wrote on it. So
when this book was announced, I thought, maybe this is
just going to be a rehash of those Herold columns,
But actually it isn't. There's a lot more color and insight.
For example, there's a chapter on a lunch that he
had with Madison Ashton when she came to Auckland after
the trial, and of course lots of us wanted to

(01:53:38):
know why she didn't appear as a witness in the
trial and what she had to say. Well, she says
quite a lot to Steve during this lunch, So there's
lots of additional stuff in there that you probably won't
have read anywhere else. And I will say that if
you have even the faintest glimmer of interest in this
case and that trial, which I know thousands of us did,
then you have to get hold of this book.

Speaker 2 (01:53:59):
And read the last chapter. You were quite shocked by
parts of this book. I've fair to say that would
be you, don't you know, you've read a few books, Joan.
It takes a bit to shock you, but you were
quite taken back with some of the revelations in this
This is the conversation Yes, I was, yeah, I was okay.
So that is Steve Brauness's Polkinghorn and the first book

(01:54:19):
we spoke about with the stars are A Million Glittering
Worlds by Gina Buttson. We'll talk next week.

Speaker 1 (01:54:24):
See you then the Sunday Session Full Show podcast on
iHeartRadio powered by News Talks FB.

Speaker 2 (01:54:33):
Thank you so much for your company today and all
your texts. Thank you to Carrie for producing the show
as well. Jason Pine is up next with Weekend Sport.
He's got a fabulous show taking you through to all
three today. Next week, I'm really excited we are going
to be joined by Dame Harriet Walter, who is probably
one of the most well known Shakespearean stage actresses around,

(01:54:55):
but she has been in pretty much every film and
every TV show, all the big TV shows of recent times,
Ted Lassau, Succession, Silo, Killing Eve. She's been in films
such as Atonement, The Young Victoria, and The Last Jewel.
She has just played Margaret Thatcher in a new film
called Brian and Maggie. It's going to be screening on
rialto Channel. She's going to join us to talk about

(01:55:15):
what it was like taking on this very very well
known character, especially because she feels that they were quite
different people. So really excited to have Dame Harriet Walter
on the show with us next week. Have a fantastic week,
Take care, look forward to seeing it. Then I Got You,

(01:55:37):
So I Need You.

Speaker 3 (01:55:43):
The Wild Hair.

Speaker 6 (01:56:01):
I Got You.

Speaker 1 (01:56:12):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin. Listen
live to News Talks. It'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio

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