July 26, 2025 • 9 mins
This week on The Sunday Panel, Newstalk ZB host Roman Travers and journalist and editor, Jo McCarroll, joined in on a discussion about the following issues of the day - and more!
New reports show Health NZ is hiring less nursing graduates than ever. Why are we training nurses and not employing them?
Butter prices have shot up - and it's been a leading story across the nation's news outlets all week. Are we blowing the outrage out of proportion?
Algorithm fatigue - are we sick of our social media feeds showing us what we think we want?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks dB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Good to have you with us. It is panel time.
Roman travers of course News Talks ZB hosts joining me now,
good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Morning, what sham. The shampoo you use is incredible. Your
hair is beautiful today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you very much. This is just called bed hair. Also,
journalist and editor Joe McCarroll joins us, Now, Good morning, Joe,
Good morning. Good to have you both with us. Hey,
this morning, we we're talking about the situation we have
with the nurses. I don't know, I feel like the
health system is a bit like whack a mole at
the moment. You know, we had the minister, the health
minister talking about GPS this week. We get some good
(00:45):
news here, but then over here pops up another situation
or another issue that we don't seem to be able
to solve. I've been able to get my head around
the nurses, Roman, because everyone tells me, especially people who
work in hospitals, we have a shortage. We need more nurses.
We seem to have a whole lot coming through at
only forty five percent of them are going to get
a job. At a hospital.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah, it's weird, isn't it. We seem to be just
a big recruiting farm for Australian for England because the
hospitals will say they've got twelve vacancies in the I
don't know proctology department, whatever that is. And yet they'll
say there's a wage freeze or there's a freeze on recruitment,
so yes they need the staff, No we can't recruit them.
We've got these morons running the whole Ministry of Health
(01:25):
who wouldn't know what having a real health concern was
because they've all got private health insurance. And so what
we're doing is they're saying, good on your margaret, you've
graduated off you go to Australia to earn better money.
That's what's happening.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And look, the thing is, though, I understand that, you know,
when a new graduate goes on to award a certain
amount of training has to be done as well. So
I can see why the hospitals are sort of saying, well,
it's not so attractive and maybe if we can get
an existing nurse and things like that, but why are
we training? Why are we allowing so many to train?
You know, we were told we need nurses, so we're
training heaps. Then they can't get a job. So why
(01:58):
are we allowing so many to train? It's costing them.
They're desperate to do this job.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
I mean, I agree with her man. Our taxes are
literally ssidizing a medical training system that just funnels doctors
and nurses to Australia. I mean, we are training people
with these critical skills that we need and then forcing
them practically to build the life a tax player offshore.
I mean, and as you say, Francisca, it's not that
(02:24):
our health system is so, you know, egregiously overstaffed. It's
that we don't have But I don't know if it's
they're not looking for graduates. I think these are the
cuts to the budgets. And we had so many times
they would not affect the frontline staff, and here we
are they are clearly affecting the frontline staff. And when
is the health system going to have the budgets it
(02:46):
needs for a safe staffing level.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I thought it was interesting this morning, Romaann, when I
was talking to Bianca Grimmer, who is the Nurses Association
National Student Unit President. I need to trim that down.
She was making the point graduates love going onto the
hospital system because they can get really good, they can
start specializing, they can learn more, they're kind of quite
well protected. They you know, it's a great stepping stone
(03:11):
for them. I mean a lot of these nurses will
probably go and get other jobs and primary sectors and things.
But if that's where we're going to create really good
nurses as well as that's where they're getting the support
to become good nurses going forward wherever they end up,
I think we should be trying to encourage that.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, I think I think a lot of things, and
I think this is widely misconstrued. It's also the same
for other industries. Look at all the people being pumped
out by broadcasting schools. Where are they all going. Where
all the journalists going. They're going into Fonterra to write
absolute spin and bolocks about butter probably, But when you've
got nurses who you know, they're working long, long shifts,
(03:47):
there in tears at the end, they have to do
a recorded handover. They can't wait to get home, they've
done twelve hours. I tell you what, if I was
a nurse, I'd be going for a job at Shortland
Street where I'm just putting a bit of botox and
complaining about the price of coffee, because lots of nurses
will be looking for jobs in the private sector. The
private healthcare so is going to take off. And that's
(04:08):
become evident by a government who don't give a flying
sausage about most of us, who we're on triage waiting
lists for too long. And if you're wealthy enough, Joe,
you've got health insurance and you go ahead of everyone
else to see a nice flash nurse, don't.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
You, oh one hundred percent? I mean it's it feels,
you know, so deliberate that you think, is this just,
you know, a conspiracy in order to drive us closer
and closer to privatization, at which point will have the
same problems but three times the.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Bell I reckon if we spoke to you know, if
we had someone on this panel now who was actually
working as a nurse in the system, they would say, look, actually,
things haven't changed a huge amount. I think Joe's right.
I think we've been told sold stories. We've got a
nurse shortage, We're gonna give you more nurses, but the
story just isn't quite adding up. You mentioned the price
(04:58):
of butter Roman and everyone's been getting pretty well, the
Finance and the Minister thought she'd get to the bottom
of the prices butter this week. And I think this
is a fatal flaw that the government has done. They
have made butter the pin up of the cost of
living crisis, and they shouldn't. It's just it is expensive
and we know why. And if you can't afford it,
(05:18):
don't buy it. Grab yourself some Oliviana or something which
might last a little longer and go a little further.
But we kind of turned butter into this big thing.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, and it's a bit out of control, isn't it
a little bit cringey? When most of the media in
New Zealand for the last two weeks the feature story
has been the price of butter and what we can
do about it? Number one, As you said, don't buy it.
Number two, have a look at the Gaza strip where
there's four starvation forced byon people by the idiots running Israel,
and you've got us, you've got us going butter. It's
(05:47):
also the reason why I don't buy maserates because I
can't afford one, so I won't buy a butter and
I think also that you know this whole thing, I've
heard certain people in the media saying, oh, we love
to support business when it does well, we should be
supporting people for making good money. How does that work?
When we talk about supermarkets that are New Zealand owned,
we can dem them for making good money. So you've
(06:08):
got this duplicity of attitudes. But ultimately it is a
first world problem and just don't buy it and then
watch the price come down.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Maybe because we had that whole pilava about Nikola Willas
saying she was going to have a meeting with Fonterra
and things. It was a regular meeting, she made it
into a big deal and it turned out to be
virtual signaling. I mean, unless she's walking in there to
offer a subsidy on butter, which I don't think any
of us want to put in place because we're just
going to pay for that. What else he going to do?
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Well? I don't know the solution either, and I absolutely
agree it's just become this cost of living symbol. And
when we say if you've seen the price of butter,
we're kind of it's a shorthand for saying, have you
seen the price of power? Have you seen the price
of petrol? Have you seen the price of mints? Everything?
You know, because it is now a lightning rod for
(06:54):
you know, our absolute shock at how expensive things are.
But I actually do push back on this idea. That's
the international price. And you know, these high prices are
good for our dairy farmer's and that is all true.
But you know, we as taxpayers, we do pay the
environmental costs of this increase in dairy production, you know,
the primary sector, which I have nothing but respect for,
(07:16):
but it's supported in a variety of different ways by
public money. I feel like we're paying so much. I mean,
we're privatizing the profits and socializing the costs.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
It was quite good, wasn't it. Romance?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
That was very good.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, I thought out.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
I love a baker. I'm a baker, and I'm very
passionate about butter. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Same here too, same here. I've stopped making my banana
los though, because there's a lot of butter in those.
But you talk about the home market, and that's what
we get told, the home market school Sea Economics, Makoda College,
and Masterton I passed because they may be understand that
whatever they get overseas we have to pay. Do you
know what, though, you don't have to buy a butter.
You're not going to die if you don't buy it,
but you are if you live in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Hey, guys, I want to bring up something really quickly.
My producer this week has discovered that discovered that she
is suffering from algorithm fatigue. So she is tired of
platforms AI just sending her what they think she's interested in,
and the algorithm's completely changing after showing a minor interest
in the topic. I think she watched one Rugby League
video and then has been inundated with everything to do
(08:18):
with NRL. She just wants a real worldview of everything
from news to social media to streaming. But all these
platforms are sending her what she thinks she wants, and
it's really frustrating. It's too much, and she's just gonna
walk away. Have you had this of your experience this
from man?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, kind of to a certain extent. Although I'm very
wary of the clickbait. You know, the only reason why
the Kardashians and their overinflated bottoms are in the news
is because people click on that and regard that as news.
I don't even know why they're in the news. So
the algorithm I'm not too worried about because I'm careful
about what I read. But I love an algorithm for
Netflix because it allows me not to be fed a
(08:51):
whole bunch of crap that I don't want to watch.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Unless everyone's used your profile and your partner's watched five
minutes of absolutely everything that's on Offer and Joe, then
you're left with this crazy algorithm.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Oh my god, clearly our Francisca, I do want to
complain about that. Conrad likes to watch every war movie
occurring in real time, and my algorithm it's destroyed. But
you know, I mean, Carrie is so right. I watched
one video the other day of a thrifted wedding dress
(09:24):
and now all I say is like wedding dresses, engagement rings,
pridead dresses, and I am not getting married, you know.
But I mean, I won't say the algorithm it doesn't
exist to give everyone a go, you know what I mean?
And it's you know, it's it will remain exactly the
same as long as it is profitable.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Romance Roman Travers, Joe McCarroll, thank you so much for
your time Today.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Appreciate for more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin.
Listen live to news talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks dB.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
Good to have you with us. It is panel time.
Roman travers of course News Talks ZB hosts joining me now,
good morning.
Speaker 3 (00:18):
Morning, what sham. The shampoo you use is incredible. Your
hair is beautiful today.
Speaker 2 (00:23):
Thank you very much. This is just called bed hair. Also,
journalist and editor Joe McCarroll joins us, Now, Good morning, Joe,
Good morning. Good to have you both with us. Hey,
this morning, we we're talking about the situation we have
with the nurses. I don't know, I feel like the
health system is a bit like whack a mole at
the moment. You know, we had the minister, the health
minister talking about GPS this week. We get some good
(00:45):
news here, but then over here pops up another situation
or another issue that we don't seem to be able
to solve. I've been able to get my head around
the nurses, Roman, because everyone tells me, especially people who
work in hospitals, we have a shortage. We need more nurses.
We seem to have a whole lot coming through at
only forty five percent of them are going to get
a job. At a hospital.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
Yeah, it's weird, isn't it. We seem to be just
a big recruiting farm for Australian for England because the
hospitals will say they've got twelve vacancies in the I
don't know proctology department, whatever that is. And yet they'll
say there's a wage freeze or there's a freeze on recruitment,
so yes they need the staff, No we can't recruit them.
We've got these morons running the whole Ministry of Health
(01:25):
who wouldn't know what having a real health concern was
because they've all got private health insurance. And so what
we're doing is they're saying, good on your margaret, you've
graduated off you go to Australia to earn better money.
That's what's happening.
Speaker 2 (01:37):
And look, the thing is, though, I understand that, you know,
when a new graduate goes on to award a certain
amount of training has to be done as well. So
I can see why the hospitals are sort of saying, well,
it's not so attractive and maybe if we can get
an existing nurse and things like that, but why are
we training? Why are we allowing so many to train?
You know, we were told we need nurses, so we're
training heaps. Then they can't get a job. So why
(01:58):
are we allowing so many to train? It's costing them.
They're desperate to do this job.
Speaker 4 (02:04):
I mean, I agree with her man. Our taxes are
literally ssidizing a medical training system that just funnels doctors
and nurses to Australia. I mean, we are training people
with these critical skills that we need and then forcing
them practically to build the life a tax player offshore.
I mean, and as you say, Francisca, it's not that
(02:24):
our health system is so, you know, egregiously overstaffed. It's
that we don't have But I don't know if it's
they're not looking for graduates. I think these are the
cuts to the budgets. And we had so many times
they would not affect the frontline staff, and here we
are they are clearly affecting the frontline staff. And when
is the health system going to have the budgets it
(02:46):
needs for a safe staffing level.
Speaker 2 (02:49):
I thought it was interesting this morning, Romaann, when I
was talking to Bianca Grimmer, who is the Nurses Association
National Student Unit President. I need to trim that down.
She was making the point graduates love going onto the
hospital system because they can get really good, they can
start specializing, they can learn more, they're kind of quite
well protected. They you know, it's a great stepping stone
(03:11):
for them. I mean a lot of these nurses will
probably go and get other jobs and primary sectors and things.
But if that's where we're going to create really good
nurses as well as that's where they're getting the support
to become good nurses going forward wherever they end up,
I think we should be trying to encourage that.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
Yeah, I think I think a lot of things, and
I think this is widely misconstrued. It's also the same
for other industries. Look at all the people being pumped
out by broadcasting schools. Where are they all going. Where
all the journalists going. They're going into Fonterra to write
absolute spin and bolocks about butter probably, But when you've
got nurses who you know, they're working long, long shifts,
(03:47):
there in tears at the end, they have to do
a recorded handover. They can't wait to get home, they've
done twelve hours. I tell you what, if I was
a nurse, I'd be going for a job at Shortland
Street where I'm just putting a bit of botox and
complaining about the price of coffee, because lots of nurses
will be looking for jobs in the private sector. The
private healthcare so is going to take off. And that's
(04:08):
become evident by a government who don't give a flying
sausage about most of us, who we're on triage waiting
lists for too long. And if you're wealthy enough, Joe,
you've got health insurance and you go ahead of everyone
else to see a nice flash nurse, don't.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
You, oh one hundred percent? I mean it's it feels,
you know, so deliberate that you think, is this just,
you know, a conspiracy in order to drive us closer
and closer to privatization, at which point will have the
same problems but three times the.
Speaker 2 (04:38):
Bell I reckon if we spoke to you know, if
we had someone on this panel now who was actually
working as a nurse in the system, they would say, look, actually,
things haven't changed a huge amount. I think Joe's right.
I think we've been told sold stories. We've got a
nurse shortage, We're gonna give you more nurses, but the
story just isn't quite adding up. You mentioned the price
(04:58):
of butter Roman and everyone's been getting pretty well, the
Finance and the Minister thought she'd get to the bottom
of the prices butter this week. And I think this
is a fatal flaw that the government has done. They
have made butter the pin up of the cost of
living crisis, and they shouldn't. It's just it is expensive
and we know why. And if you can't afford it,
(05:18):
don't buy it. Grab yourself some Oliviana or something which
might last a little longer and go a little further.
But we kind of turned butter into this big thing.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Yeah, and it's a bit out of control, isn't it
a little bit cringey? When most of the media in
New Zealand for the last two weeks the feature story
has been the price of butter and what we can
do about it? Number one, As you said, don't buy it.
Number two, have a look at the Gaza strip where
there's four starvation forced byon people by the idiots running Israel,
and you've got us, you've got us going butter. It's
(05:47):
also the reason why I don't buy maserates because I
can't afford one, so I won't buy a butter and
I think also that you know this whole thing, I've
heard certain people in the media saying, oh, we love
to support business when it does well, we should be
supporting people for making good money. How does that work?
When we talk about supermarkets that are New Zealand owned,
we can dem them for making good money. So you've
(06:08):
got this duplicity of attitudes. But ultimately it is a
first world problem and just don't buy it and then
watch the price come down.
Speaker 2 (06:15):
Maybe because we had that whole pilava about Nikola Willas
saying she was going to have a meeting with Fonterra
and things. It was a regular meeting, she made it
into a big deal and it turned out to be
virtual signaling. I mean, unless she's walking in there to
offer a subsidy on butter, which I don't think any
of us want to put in place because we're just
going to pay for that. What else he going to do?
Speaker 4 (06:33):
Well? I don't know the solution either, and I absolutely
agree it's just become this cost of living symbol. And
when we say if you've seen the price of butter,
we're kind of it's a shorthand for saying, have you
seen the price of power? Have you seen the price
of petrol? Have you seen the price of mints? Everything?
You know, because it is now a lightning rod for
(06:54):
you know, our absolute shock at how expensive things are.
But I actually do push back on this idea. That's
the international price. And you know, these high prices are
good for our dairy farmer's and that is all true.
But you know, we as taxpayers, we do pay the
environmental costs of this increase in dairy production, you know,
the primary sector, which I have nothing but respect for,
(07:16):
but it's supported in a variety of different ways by
public money. I feel like we're paying so much. I mean,
we're privatizing the profits and socializing the costs.
Speaker 2 (07:27):
It was quite good, wasn't it. Romance?
Speaker 1 (07:29):
That was very good.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
Yeah, I thought out.
Speaker 4 (07:31):
I love a baker. I'm a baker, and I'm very
passionate about butter. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Same here too, same here. I've stopped making my banana
los though, because there's a lot of butter in those.
But you talk about the home market, and that's what
we get told, the home market school Sea Economics, Makoda College,
and Masterton I passed because they may be understand that
whatever they get overseas we have to pay. Do you
know what, though, you don't have to buy a butter.
You're not going to die if you don't buy it,
but you are if you live in Gaza.
Speaker 2 (07:56):
Hey, guys, I want to bring up something really quickly.
My producer this week has discovered that discovered that she
is suffering from algorithm fatigue. So she is tired of
platforms AI just sending her what they think she's interested in,
and the algorithm's completely changing after showing a minor interest
in the topic. I think she watched one Rugby League
video and then has been inundated with everything to do
(08:18):
with NRL. She just wants a real worldview of everything
from news to social media to streaming. But all these
platforms are sending her what she thinks she wants, and
it's really frustrating. It's too much, and she's just gonna
walk away. Have you had this of your experience this
from man?
Speaker 3 (08:31):
Yeah, kind of to a certain extent. Although I'm very
wary of the clickbait. You know, the only reason why
the Kardashians and their overinflated bottoms are in the news
is because people click on that and regard that as news.
I don't even know why they're in the news. So
the algorithm I'm not too worried about because I'm careful
about what I read. But I love an algorithm for
Netflix because it allows me not to be fed a
(08:51):
whole bunch of crap that I don't want to watch.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Unless everyone's used your profile and your partner's watched five
minutes of absolutely everything that's on Offer and Joe, then
you're left with this crazy algorithm.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
Oh my god, clearly our Francisca, I do want to
complain about that. Conrad likes to watch every war movie
occurring in real time, and my algorithm it's destroyed. But
you know, I mean, Carrie is so right. I watched
one video the other day of a thrifted wedding dress
(09:24):
and now all I say is like wedding dresses, engagement rings,
pridead dresses, and I am not getting married, you know.
But I mean, I won't say the algorithm it doesn't
exist to give everyone a go, you know what I mean?
And it's you know, it's it will remain exactly the
same as long as it is profitable.
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Romance Roman Travers, Joe McCarroll, thank you so much for
your time Today.
Speaker 1 (09:48):
Appreciate for more from the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin.
Listen live to news talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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