July 26, 2025 • 14 mins
Dame Harriet Walter's got plenty of memorable roles under her belt, from Succession, to Ted Lasso, to Killing Eve - and now she's taking on a part like no other.
She portrays former UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in the docuseries Brian and Maggie and she's opened up about taking on such a challenging role.
"All actors like a challenge and this was a huge, huge mountain to get over. Among many reason was the fact that she's been played so often by brilliant actresses, so they've set the bar quite high."
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Ed b Gosh, it feels like Dame Harriet Walter has
been in just about everything, doesn't it, particularly the big
TV shows A recent time succession, killing Eve, ted Ler,
so Silo to name a few.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Her latest project is a challenge like no other, playing
Iron Lady, former UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in Brian
and Maggie. It's a dramatization of the infamous nineteen eighty
TV interview between Thatcher and journalist Brian Walden.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Thatcher'll do an interview so long as it's in.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
He's your favorite for a reason.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We are walk in the park.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
When it comes to the old girl, I will get
to art. Bargaret howaii well, Brian always well, all sas fine?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Here we Gill and Paul for ABTR three You ready two?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yes, Fred, Dame Harriet Walter is with me now. Good morning,
Dame Harriet.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
You have said you were surprised to be asked to
play Margaret Thatcher. Why was that?
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Well, if your readers and listeners could see me now,
I don't look anything like her. I'm very dark, and
I don't have any features in common with her. I
don't think I sound very like her, and my politics
are completely in the opposite direction to her. So yeah,
(01:36):
that's about why.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
And then we see you on screen and you're absolutely
brilliant as her.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Well, that's very very kind of you to say thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
What was it about the role that made you accept
the offer to play her? Were you think to play her?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I was, but I think I remember saying because the
team was so wonderful. I mean, you've got James Graham,
You've got Stephen Freres, You've got Steve Coogan. I mean,
what a team. So I just, you know, I thought
I want to work with this team, but I wish
(02:15):
it wasn't this person that I have to play. Can
it be anything else? Please? You know, write a film
about someone else and I'll do it. But you know
that's the thing. People ask you what roles you want
to play, But with me, it's who do you want
to work with? And that was what led me through really,
And then, you know, all actors like a challenge, and
(02:36):
this was a huge, huge mountain to get over. You know,
among many reasons was the fact that she's been played
so often by brilliant actresses, and you know, so they've
set the bar quite high.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Well, I did read one review that said that you
were the best thetcher yet.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Oh well, that's very good to hear.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yes, so was she a hard character to portray, to
get to grips with.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Well, in that, you know, the fear was, you know
that anybody can switch on any YouTube recording of her,
and particularly of the interview that we focus on. We
focus on an interview with the journalist Brian Walden, who
had once been in the House of Commons as an opposition.
He was in the Labor Party, but he wasn't really
(03:25):
a labor man at heart, I think, and they met
in the middle of these two people, and the story
really is about our relationship and the relationship with the
press to the politician. It's you know, the story was
sort of bigger than like a little It wasn't a
biopic or anything like that. It was it was a
(03:47):
story about something in which she featured very strongly. So
the difficulty was really to sort of get her to
be believable to people because they could switch and look
and see what she was really like. And everybody, you know,
a lot of people remember what she was like, so
that was a difficult to surmount, and I had to
(04:08):
do a lot of watching and watching and watching and
listening and try and sort of get under her skin.
But mainly the job was, like it is with any
acting job, is to tell a particular story and to
be sure that you're communicating that story and not going
off message and getting hung up with some aspect of
(04:29):
her that doesn't enlighten that story.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Did you know a lot about her before you played
the role in the scenes that had you shown much
interest in her career at the time? Did you have
quite seat opinions of her?
Speaker 4 (04:42):
There were very well known things about her, about her background,
about what she had to surmount in terms of living
in a man's world, And you know, those were the
aspects that I locked onto in order to sympathize with
her at all. Those were fairly well known stories. And
I'm of a generation who was very affected by her.
(05:02):
You know, I remember her very well. I lived through
her time. Yes, I I knew quite a lot about her,
But at the same time, I didn't really absorb a
lot of, you know, the day to day politics, because
I got so upset by her and what she was
doing to the country that I switched off whenever she
(05:22):
came on the deli. I switched off when she came
on the radio. I didn't want to hear any more
of that voice. So in the cold light of many
decades later, I was able to sit down and watch
her and study her.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Because of course she was a leader, a female leader.
There were very few female leaders. They were rare, and
in a way what she managed to do in a
man's world was quite impressive, but maybe just not also
the best role model.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
That's exactly right. That's what's tantalizing about her. I mean,
you've had your wonderful Cindra return and it was really
you know what I call a female leader, I mean
bringing whatever it is about having grown up as a
woman to bear on her politics. Thatcher didn't have that, really,
I mean, she was what I call a lieutenant of
(06:12):
the patriarchy. You know, she stood for the men. She
believed in a certain structure of society that she'd got
from her father, and she believed in it. But she
was a class warrior in a funny way, in a
perverse way. She wanted to get rid of the sort
of entitled inherited kind of privilege that the men she,
(06:35):
you know, had to deal with, were born into and
she wanted to sweep that away, and she loathed all
those guys. And I found it very telling, you know
that she sort of went into that world but kind
of her business. In her mind, what she needed to
do was sort of change the male way of doing things,
(06:59):
but she wasn't really going to change a female way
of doing things. So but I think what really she
brought about in the country that is neither male nor female,
is that she was first and foremost an economist, and
she saw the world impure rather simplistic economic terms, that
(07:21):
if we had more money, if we were richer, if
the country was in profit, then everybody would benefit and
it would be a better world. Because it seemed she
had very narrow criteria for success, and she never changed
that idea that, you know, a booming economy is the
way to make everybody happy. But she didn't look to
(07:42):
left nor right and see that that booming economy was
only benefiting of very few people. And that is what
we've inherited. We still having readible poverty in our country
and inequality, and you know, things that I care passionately
about like the arts, and you know, a general liberal humanitarianism.
(08:03):
You know, she did not that was not included in
her worldview of what mattered. And so she felt she'd
done a great and she felt, she convinced herself that
she left Britain a better place than when she arrived,
and people on the other side of the political spectrum
felt the very opposite, that she destroyed. Certain things about
(08:26):
our humanity are common, you know, the way we behave
to one another, way we you know, famously, although misquoted,
it's not exactly what she said. There is no such
thing as society, which you know, that's at the heart
of what we find difficult about her.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Really, isn't it wonderful? Though? These complex women that you
get to play like. I want to ask you whether
you're sort of drawn to a certain type of character
or woman that you like to play. But then I
look at your incredible list of credits and you've really
done everything.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
You know, I haven't done a music.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
A musical it's about you know what, that's the only
thing that was missing. But you look at it and
you just go, gosh, you really have done everything. But
is there is there what intrigues you now, you know,
when it comes to a character to play.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Well, funnily enough, as I said before, it's the people
that are the people, the team that you're going to
work with that really matters to me. And I think
that I have to say that rather than I am
drawn towards certain characters, it's directors who have written or
writers who've written a certain character are drawn towards me
(09:43):
to play them. Because an actor's usually more in a
passive position in terms of what jobs they do. I
would love to play all sorts of characters that nobody
would see me as you know. So that's you know,
I have to wait and be asked to do something
that other people think I can do, if you see
what I mean. Yes, no, absolutely So in a way,
that's a job. Was great because it was an example
(10:03):
of somebody thinking that just by shit, acting experience and
acting chops, I could play a part that was so
far away from me, and that was very flattering. But
on the other hand, in a way, as I've got older,
I wanted to play things that are more like me
because I have played an awful lot of sort of
very tough, unyielding women, you know, as well, as you say,
(10:25):
I've played a lot of variety, but there's been a
slightly common thread of I don't know, being rather cold
or cruel, and I just I am many things, but
I'm not that, and I would like to play something
that slightly more expresses the way I've lived my life
and what I believe in. And nobody's written that art,
so it's not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Are you finding though, that you're reaching a whole new audience?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Now?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
I mean you've been in some of the biggest shows
of the last few years, Succession t T, So you know,
I think you've peaten doctor who you know. I spoke
to Helena Bononkata just last week and she said to me,
she said, people always approach me and I can tell
by their age what film they're going to mention, and
(11:12):
then occasionally she's completely surprised by you know, what people
might have seen me and or might want to mention.
Do you have that same experience? Are you finding that
I got the whole new audience? You know, the younger
audience too, who are now very aware of who you are.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Yes, I can relate to that very easily, actually, and
it's very gratifying to be finally, oh my god, you've
been there all that time. You know, you weren't sort
of sticking out on the front page of a newspaper always.
But I can actually no, I think of it. I
remember you in something back in nineteen eighty. You know,
(11:48):
people suddenly sort of realize that they know you and
have known you for a long time. And yeah, that's
very gratifying. And I do also get I get very
young people sort of talking about something I did in
the ages. You know, that's like to them it's a
you know, a classical old movie. And then you know,
people stopped me in the street for the most extraordinary
(12:09):
things that I'd forgotten i'd done, So that's great. I mean,
usually it's succession or killing Eves or Sense and Sensibility.
That's another one which is shown on our TV quite
repeatedly over the decades, so those are the main ones.
But people come out with you know, I saw you
(12:30):
when I was twelve at the Royal Shakespeare Company, and
that's gratifying, I have to say.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
And I do just want to touch on that very
quickly before you go. I believe you are hitting back.
You're being directed by raph fines. You're hitting back to
the theater for the first time in a while, is
that exciting?
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Well, it's not such a long break because I was
on stage two years ago at the National Theater, but
before that, I hadn't been on stage for about seven years,
and that is the way the longest that I've been
away from the stage. I've always you know, that's been
where I've repeatedly worked up until recently. So it's a
(13:08):
bit of a tradeoff. You do a lot more highly
visible TV shows if you're free to do them. If
you're doing a lot of theater, you're not free to
do those shows, so that that's kind of the trade off.
And now I've found time to fit in this as
you like it at bath Theater Royal with Raife and
(13:29):
I'm really enjoying being back or you know, being back
with Shakespeare mainly, you know, that's my that's the heart
of my career, I would say, And that's just lovely
to be back in a rehearsal room with a lot
of keen Shakespeareans.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
And you've also got another show coming out soon playing
Gracie Darling, which you start and along with our very
own wonderful and MORGANA O'Reilly.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Your very own wonderful MORGANA. O'Reilly. She is terrific. She's
just the star of this show, you know. And it's
a very intriguing, sort of almost ghosty spoos key story,
but it's also a real family drama, which is where
I come in. And yeah, it was a two weeks
shoot in Australia in your summer, so what's not to
(14:18):
light when I got two weeks off from London's gray drizzle.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Oh, we can't wait to see it. Thank you so
much for your time, very very much, appreciate it, and
thank you very much for your Margaret thetcher. She's wonderful
to watch.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
That was the wonderful Dame Harriet Walter. The series we're
talking about is Brian and Meggi. You can watch it
on rialto Channel on the sixteenth, twenty eighth, and nineteenth
of August.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks.
Speaker 2 (00:11):
Ed b Gosh, it feels like Dame Harriet Walter has
been in just about everything, doesn't it, particularly the big
TV shows A recent time succession, killing Eve, ted Ler,
so Silo to name a few.
Speaker 3 (00:23):
Her latest project is a challenge like no other, playing
Iron Lady, former UK Prime Minister Margaret Thatcher in Brian
and Maggie. It's a dramatization of the infamous nineteen eighty
TV interview between Thatcher and journalist Brian Walden.
Speaker 1 (00:37):
Thatcher'll do an interview so long as it's in.
Speaker 4 (00:42):
He's your favorite for a reason.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
We are walk in the park.
Speaker 4 (00:46):
When it comes to the old girl, I will get
to art. Bargaret howaii well, Brian always well, all sas fine?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Here we Gill and Paul for ABTR three You ready two?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
Yes, Fred, Dame Harriet Walter is with me now. Good morning,
Dame Harriet.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
Good morning to you.
Speaker 3 (01:08):
You have said you were surprised to be asked to
play Margaret Thatcher. Why was that?
Speaker 4 (01:14):
Well, if your readers and listeners could see me now,
I don't look anything like her. I'm very dark, and
I don't have any features in common with her. I
don't think I sound very like her, and my politics
are completely in the opposite direction to her. So yeah,
(01:36):
that's about why.
Speaker 3 (01:39):
And then we see you on screen and you're absolutely
brilliant as her.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Well, that's very very kind of you to say thank you.
Speaker 3 (01:47):
What was it about the role that made you accept
the offer to play her? Were you think to play her?
Speaker 4 (01:55):
I was, but I think I remember saying because the
team was so wonderful. I mean, you've got James Graham,
You've got Stephen Freres, You've got Steve Coogan. I mean,
what a team. So I just, you know, I thought
I want to work with this team, but I wish
(02:15):
it wasn't this person that I have to play. Can
it be anything else? Please? You know, write a film
about someone else and I'll do it. But you know
that's the thing. People ask you what roles you want
to play, But with me, it's who do you want
to work with? And that was what led me through really,
And then, you know, all actors like a challenge, and
(02:36):
this was a huge, huge mountain to get over. You know,
among many reasons was the fact that she's been played
so often by brilliant actresses, and you know, so they've
set the bar quite high.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Well, I did read one review that said that you
were the best thetcher yet.
Speaker 4 (02:54):
Oh well, that's very good to hear.
Speaker 3 (02:55):
Yes, so was she a hard character to portray, to
get to grips with.
Speaker 4 (03:02):
Well, in that, you know, the fear was, you know
that anybody can switch on any YouTube recording of her,
and particularly of the interview that we focus on. We
focus on an interview with the journalist Brian Walden, who
had once been in the House of Commons as an opposition.
He was in the Labor Party, but he wasn't really
(03:25):
a labor man at heart, I think, and they met
in the middle of these two people, and the story
really is about our relationship and the relationship with the
press to the politician. It's you know, the story was
sort of bigger than like a little It wasn't a
biopic or anything like that. It was it was a
(03:47):
story about something in which she featured very strongly. So
the difficulty was really to sort of get her to
be believable to people because they could switch and look
and see what she was really like. And everybody, you know,
a lot of people remember what she was like, so
that was a difficult to surmount, and I had to
(04:08):
do a lot of watching and watching and watching and
listening and try and sort of get under her skin.
But mainly the job was, like it is with any
acting job, is to tell a particular story and to
be sure that you're communicating that story and not going
off message and getting hung up with some aspect of
(04:29):
her that doesn't enlighten that story.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Did you know a lot about her before you played
the role in the scenes that had you shown much
interest in her career at the time? Did you have
quite seat opinions of her?
Speaker 4 (04:42):
There were very well known things about her, about her background,
about what she had to surmount in terms of living
in a man's world, And you know, those were the
aspects that I locked onto in order to sympathize with
her at all. Those were fairly well known stories. And
I'm of a generation who was very affected by her.
(05:02):
You know, I remember her very well. I lived through
her time. Yes, I I knew quite a lot about her,
But at the same time, I didn't really absorb a
lot of, you know, the day to day politics, because
I got so upset by her and what she was
doing to the country that I switched off whenever she
(05:22):
came on the deli. I switched off when she came
on the radio. I didn't want to hear any more
of that voice. So in the cold light of many
decades later, I was able to sit down and watch
her and study her.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
Because of course she was a leader, a female leader.
There were very few female leaders. They were rare, and
in a way what she managed to do in a
man's world was quite impressive, but maybe just not also
the best role model.
Speaker 4 (05:48):
That's exactly right. That's what's tantalizing about her. I mean,
you've had your wonderful Cindra return and it was really
you know what I call a female leader, I mean
bringing whatever it is about having grown up as a
woman to bear on her politics. Thatcher didn't have that, really,
I mean, she was what I call a lieutenant of
(06:12):
the patriarchy. You know, she stood for the men. She
believed in a certain structure of society that she'd got
from her father, and she believed in it. But she
was a class warrior in a funny way, in a
perverse way. She wanted to get rid of the sort
of entitled inherited kind of privilege that the men she,
(06:35):
you know, had to deal with, were born into and
she wanted to sweep that away, and she loathed all
those guys. And I found it very telling, you know
that she sort of went into that world but kind
of her business. In her mind, what she needed to
do was sort of change the male way of doing things,
(06:59):
but she wasn't really going to change a female way
of doing things. So but I think what really she
brought about in the country that is neither male nor female,
is that she was first and foremost an economist, and
she saw the world impure rather simplistic economic terms, that
(07:21):
if we had more money, if we were richer, if
the country was in profit, then everybody would benefit and
it would be a better world. Because it seemed she
had very narrow criteria for success, and she never changed
that idea that, you know, a booming economy is the
way to make everybody happy. But she didn't look to
(07:42):
left nor right and see that that booming economy was
only benefiting of very few people. And that is what
we've inherited. We still having readible poverty in our country
and inequality, and you know, things that I care passionately
about like the arts, and you know, a general liberal humanitarianism.
(08:03):
You know, she did not that was not included in
her worldview of what mattered. And so she felt she'd
done a great and she felt, she convinced herself that
she left Britain a better place than when she arrived,
and people on the other side of the political spectrum
felt the very opposite, that she destroyed. Certain things about
(08:26):
our humanity are common, you know, the way we behave
to one another, way we you know, famously, although misquoted,
it's not exactly what she said. There is no such
thing as society, which you know, that's at the heart
of what we find difficult about her.
Speaker 3 (08:44):
Really, isn't it wonderful? Though? These complex women that you
get to play like. I want to ask you whether
you're sort of drawn to a certain type of character
or woman that you like to play. But then I
look at your incredible list of credits and you've really
done everything.
Speaker 4 (09:05):
You know, I haven't done a music.
Speaker 3 (09:07):
A musical it's about you know what, that's the only
thing that was missing. But you look at it and
you just go, gosh, you really have done everything. But
is there is there what intrigues you now, you know,
when it comes to a character to play.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Well, funnily enough, as I said before, it's the people
that are the people, the team that you're going to
work with that really matters to me. And I think
that I have to say that rather than I am
drawn towards certain characters, it's directors who have written or
writers who've written a certain character are drawn towards me
(09:43):
to play them. Because an actor's usually more in a
passive position in terms of what jobs they do. I
would love to play all sorts of characters that nobody
would see me as you know. So that's you know,
I have to wait and be asked to do something
that other people think I can do, if you see
what I mean. Yes, no, absolutely So in a way,
that's a job. Was great because it was an example
(10:03):
of somebody thinking that just by shit, acting experience and
acting chops, I could play a part that was so
far away from me, and that was very flattering. But
on the other hand, in a way, as I've got older,
I wanted to play things that are more like me
because I have played an awful lot of sort of
very tough, unyielding women, you know, as well, as you say,
(10:25):
I've played a lot of variety, but there's been a
slightly common thread of I don't know, being rather cold
or cruel, and I just I am many things, but
I'm not that, and I would like to play something
that slightly more expresses the way I've lived my life
and what I believe in. And nobody's written that art,
so it's not going to happen.
Speaker 3 (10:48):
Are you finding though, that you're reaching a whole new audience?
Speaker 1 (10:51):
Now?
Speaker 3 (10:51):
I mean you've been in some of the biggest shows
of the last few years, Succession t T, So you know,
I think you've peaten doctor who you know. I spoke
to Helena Bononkata just last week and she said to me,
she said, people always approach me and I can tell
by their age what film they're going to mention, and
(11:12):
then occasionally she's completely surprised by you know, what people
might have seen me and or might want to mention.
Do you have that same experience? Are you finding that
I got the whole new audience? You know, the younger
audience too, who are now very aware of who you are.
Speaker 4 (11:27):
Yes, I can relate to that very easily, actually, and
it's very gratifying to be finally, oh my god, you've
been there all that time. You know, you weren't sort
of sticking out on the front page of a newspaper always.
But I can actually no, I think of it. I
remember you in something back in nineteen eighty. You know,
(11:48):
people suddenly sort of realize that they know you and
have known you for a long time. And yeah, that's
very gratifying. And I do also get I get very
young people sort of talking about something I did in
the ages. You know, that's like to them it's a
you know, a classical old movie. And then you know,
people stopped me in the street for the most extraordinary
(12:09):
things that I'd forgotten i'd done, So that's great. I mean,
usually it's succession or killing Eves or Sense and Sensibility.
That's another one which is shown on our TV quite
repeatedly over the decades, so those are the main ones.
But people come out with you know, I saw you
(12:30):
when I was twelve at the Royal Shakespeare Company, and
that's gratifying, I have to say.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
And I do just want to touch on that very
quickly before you go. I believe you are hitting back.
You're being directed by raph fines. You're hitting back to
the theater for the first time in a while, is
that exciting?
Speaker 4 (12:47):
Well, it's not such a long break because I was
on stage two years ago at the National Theater, but
before that, I hadn't been on stage for about seven years,
and that is the way the longest that I've been
away from the stage. I've always you know, that's been
where I've repeatedly worked up until recently. So it's a
(13:08):
bit of a tradeoff. You do a lot more highly
visible TV shows if you're free to do them. If
you're doing a lot of theater, you're not free to
do those shows, so that that's kind of the trade off.
And now I've found time to fit in this as
you like it at bath Theater Royal with Raife and
(13:29):
I'm really enjoying being back or you know, being back
with Shakespeare mainly, you know, that's my that's the heart
of my career, I would say, And that's just lovely
to be back in a rehearsal room with a lot
of keen Shakespeareans.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
And you've also got another show coming out soon playing
Gracie Darling, which you start and along with our very
own wonderful and MORGANA O'Reilly.
Speaker 4 (13:55):
Your very own wonderful MORGANA. O'Reilly. She is terrific. She's
just the star of this show, you know. And it's
a very intriguing, sort of almost ghosty spoos key story,
but it's also a real family drama, which is where
I come in. And yeah, it was a two weeks
shoot in Australia in your summer, so what's not to
(14:18):
light when I got two weeks off from London's gray drizzle.
Speaker 3 (14:22):
Oh, we can't wait to see it. Thank you so
much for your time, very very much, appreciate it, and
thank you very much for your Margaret thetcher. She's wonderful
to watch.
Speaker 4 (14:31):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (14:32):
That was the wonderful Dame Harriet Walter. The series we're
talking about is Brian and Meggi. You can watch it
on rialto Channel on the sixteenth, twenty eighth, and nineteenth
of August.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks it'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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