August 30, 2025 • 8 mins
This week on the Sunday Panel, Coast Day host Lorna Riley and Senior PR Consultant at One Plus One Communications, Damien Venuto, joined in on a discussion about the issues of the day - and more!
Should the taxpayer be covering the Covid inquiry legal costs? It is usual for the crown to cover legal costs of ministers and previous ministers – but should we be covering these costs?
And how do we get central Auckland as vibrant and exciting as Christchurch? Is the rest of the country moving ahead faster than Auckland?
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
All right, time for the panel now, and I'm joined
by Coast to Day host Lorna Riley.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Good morning, Launa, Good morning, Francesca.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We're also joined by senior pr consultant at one plus
one Communications, Damian Venuto.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Good morning, Damien, Good morning, Francesca.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I have been very intrigued this week at the shock
and the outrage that some of our former members of
Parliament have had their legal costs covered. And of course
I'm talking about the COVID inquiry and I'm sort of
talking about Cindra Adourn and things. But look, this is
what we do. We have always allowed MPs to get
(00:46):
taxpayer help to pay for legal bills incurred as part
of their job, and at the end of the day,
this is kind of part of their job. Do you
think the outrage, Launa, is really just over the topic,
over the subject matter that we're talking about, a COVID inquiry.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, yep. People aren't happy about what happened as opposed
to the process. I mean, this is this is you process.
I actually thought seventy thousand dollars to represent four ministers
with actually quite cheap. Yeah, right for money. But I
think you're exactly right. I think people are just annoyed.
I think they're annoyed that the ministers chose not to
(01:22):
front up publicly and they're taking it out on the
legal bill because that's all they have.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I do get that too, though, Damien.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah, I think this is one of those examples where
two things can be true at the same time. One, yes,
it can be annoying, but two, it's also the right
thing to do. We have to have that separation between
public and personal liability because if we don't, then politicians
will always be afraid that they'll be they'll be afraid
to make those tough decisions because of the likelihood that
they might be sued later. So it's incredibly important to
(01:54):
maintain that public and personal liability separation. But yeah, it
can be annoying, and this is one of those examples
where some members of society find it tremendously annoying.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Do you think think there is any difference as to
whether you are a current member of parliament, Launa, or
you know or now you've sort of retired from that business.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
No, I don't think they should be treated any differently
in the eyes of the law or the eyes of process.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
So no, how about you, Daman, I think if if
the activity that you've conducted was conducted in the scope
of your role as a minister, then that's public So
I think that that's where where where it should lie.
If you've done something like defame somebody, and that's a
personal thing that you've done, I think that then the
(02:47):
the indemnity that you're given from the from those legal costs,
that should fall away. But when when you've acted in
the public interest or in your public duty, then then
this rule should apply.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I wonder whether the question is Launa, is do you
actually need legal advice to decide as to withther turn
up to a publican quarry or not?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well, I think given the extremely touching nature of this one,
I probably would have gone for legal advices as well.
To be.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
You, Damien, Well, I think the fact that all four
of them were given the same legal advice indicates that
legal advice is probably a good call, and it would
have been nothing to gain by one of them going
roguan appearing.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I think if you are currently involved in politics in
New Zealand, and you want to turn up to an
election with your head held high, then I probably would
have turned up. But that's just me.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Hey.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Look, I started the show by talking about how I
had a couple of great days in christ Touch I
just loved it. I mean, the weather was shining, I
mean it was really on form, but I just found
the city. It was alive and positive and thriving, and
it felt like people were happy and getting on with life.
And then I had this hilarious day in Auckland yesterday.
Took my daughter into University of Auckland to go to
(04:00):
the open day and we sorted out her career and
her degree faster than we could get out of a
car park building. Got stuck in the sum redlock for
an hour in a car park building. And I love
my city and I love the central city, but if
there is an event on, it becomes impossible to kind
of move around and do that. And I want to
be positive about it, but I'm just starting to find
(04:23):
it's a bit tiring in things, and I'm wondering maybe
if the rest of the country is moving ahead faster
than Auckland, there's getting its mojo back faster than Auckland, Lorna,
you're always traveling. You're probably around the country quite a lot.
I stop failing on the yes.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah, and I'm with you on christ Church. I mean
they had a very unfortunate event, of course, which meant
that they had rebuilt a lot of that city center
and it planned so beautifully. They've also got only three
percent vacancy rate on retail areas in their CBD. In Auckland,
it's the highest in the country. Thirteen percent vacant, I
(04:58):
mean one in every eight retail stores and the CBD
is empty. That does not help. It's a bit of
a chicken and egg situation. You know, people are going
to come back to the city when there's nothing really there,
but they're not going to Yeah, it's very tricky. We've had,
you know, covids as the rest of the country. Of course,
we've had the city rail link. That's going to help
(05:19):
when that opens next year. Also the International Convention Center
is going to bring some people back as well. So
I think things are improving. But Auckland also is a
collection of cities really, so when we talk about the CBD,
you know, we've got I live over on the North
Shore and you know, Takapunit for me is sort of
(05:40):
my local CBD, and I know West it's the same
and down south it's the same. So we may be
asking too much of Auckland City CBD to become this
hub that everyone travels to.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I think it can be a hub, Damien. And my
issue is in like I spend quite a lot of
time in central Auckland. My problem is when there's an
event on. So I think there are lots of things
that bring people into the city, but every time I
go to Spark Arena, I get stuck in traffic, can't
get off the right away. You go to the tennis
you've got a plan to be there, really really, because
you can't. There's not really get sort of dropped off.
Like it's like when we put on something and it's great,
(06:15):
we're going to open the convention center and have things
going on there, and thankfully they have parking there, which
I'm sure you can get out of that parking building faster,
but you know what I mean, it's almost like it's
all there. We just can't quite pull it together. We
can't pull it off.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
I think this really Lorna touched on this because when
she said that everyone has their own little CBD Entakapuna
out West West Gate. What you're talking about there is
a city that sprawls over an enormous distance, and what
that means is that people have to drive their cars
because the public planpord just doesn't allow for them to
(06:49):
reach the city center in the way that they can.
And maybe smaller cities and I think christ just also
had this unique opportunity after the earthquake to rethink the
way that city worked, and they've done an incredible job.
So one of the things that they've done is they've
created people first environments where it's about people meeting, walking
around the no cars, and you see this in a
(07:11):
lot of smaller cities. I mean Queens Soun's another example
of that. It's a people first environment. It's about walk ability,
it's about cycling, it's and it's a lot more difficult
to do that with the much larger city where you
have over a million people occupying the same space and
then also sprawled across a huge range. So there are
(07:31):
some challenges and it's always easier to rethink a smaller
space than what it is to rethink a bigger space
because what you're doing is your rethinking segments rather than
the whole.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, and looked I mean, and I've always been quite
happy for us to shut down Queen Street and for
us to have more pedestrian places and spaces for people
to gather and want to be and move around. But
it's coming. It's dawning on me that there's there's no
where to get there, there's no good to pack then
walk to these places together. Anyway, I'll stop mo renting
and raving and I'll be over it and no time whatsoever.
But look, thank you both so much for joining me,
Lorna Riley and Damien Vignito. There's nothing like being stuck
(08:04):
in the carpat building going absolutely nowhere for an hour
to get you all wrapped up is there. But I'll
tell you what, I was quite a bit politi than
a lot of other people that were stuck in that
building with me yesterday.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks. It'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
All right, time for the panel now, and I'm joined
by Coast to Day host Lorna Riley.
Speaker 3 (00:16):
Good morning, Launa, Good morning, Francesca.
Speaker 2 (00:19):
We're also joined by senior pr consultant at one plus
one Communications, Damian Venuto.
Speaker 4 (00:23):
Good morning, Damien, Good morning, Francesca.
Speaker 2 (00:26):
I have been very intrigued this week at the shock
and the outrage that some of our former members of
Parliament have had their legal costs covered. And of course
I'm talking about the COVID inquiry and I'm sort of
talking about Cindra Adourn and things. But look, this is
what we do. We have always allowed MPs to get
(00:46):
taxpayer help to pay for legal bills incurred as part
of their job, and at the end of the day,
this is kind of part of their job. Do you
think the outrage, Launa, is really just over the topic,
over the subject matter that we're talking about, a COVID inquiry.
Speaker 3 (01:01):
Yeah, yep. People aren't happy about what happened as opposed
to the process. I mean, this is this is you process.
I actually thought seventy thousand dollars to represent four ministers
with actually quite cheap. Yeah, right for money. But I
think you're exactly right. I think people are just annoyed.
I think they're annoyed that the ministers chose not to
(01:22):
front up publicly and they're taking it out on the
legal bill because that's all they have.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
I do get that too, though, Damien.
Speaker 4 (01:30):
Yeah, I think this is one of those examples where
two things can be true at the same time. One, yes,
it can be annoying, but two, it's also the right
thing to do. We have to have that separation between
public and personal liability because if we don't, then politicians
will always be afraid that they'll be they'll be afraid
to make those tough decisions because of the likelihood that
they might be sued later. So it's incredibly important to
(01:54):
maintain that public and personal liability separation. But yeah, it
can be annoying, and this is one of those examples
where some members of society find it tremendously annoying.
Speaker 2 (02:05):
Do you think think there is any difference as to
whether you are a current member of parliament, Launa, or
you know or now you've sort of retired from that business.
Speaker 3 (02:17):
No, I don't think they should be treated any differently
in the eyes of the law or the eyes of process.
Speaker 4 (02:25):
So no, how about you, Daman, I think if if
the activity that you've conducted was conducted in the scope
of your role as a minister, then that's public So
I think that that's where where where it should lie.
If you've done something like defame somebody, and that's a
personal thing that you've done, I think that then the
(02:47):
the indemnity that you're given from the from those legal costs,
that should fall away. But when when you've acted in
the public interest or in your public duty, then then
this rule should apply.
Speaker 2 (03:00):
I wonder whether the question is Launa, is do you
actually need legal advice to decide as to withther turn
up to a publican quarry or not?
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Well, I think given the extremely touching nature of this one,
I probably would have gone for legal advices as well.
To be.
Speaker 4 (03:17):
You, Damien, Well, I think the fact that all four
of them were given the same legal advice indicates that
legal advice is probably a good call, and it would
have been nothing to gain by one of them going
roguan appearing.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:30):
I think if you are currently involved in politics in
New Zealand, and you want to turn up to an
election with your head held high, then I probably would
have turned up. But that's just me.
Speaker 4 (03:39):
Hey.
Speaker 2 (03:39):
Look, I started the show by talking about how I
had a couple of great days in christ Touch I
just loved it. I mean, the weather was shining, I
mean it was really on form, but I just found
the city. It was alive and positive and thriving, and
it felt like people were happy and getting on with life.
And then I had this hilarious day in Auckland yesterday.
Took my daughter into University of Auckland to go to
(04:00):
the open day and we sorted out her career and
her degree faster than we could get out of a
car park building. Got stuck in the sum redlock for
an hour in a car park building. And I love
my city and I love the central city, but if
there is an event on, it becomes impossible to kind
of move around and do that. And I want to
be positive about it, but I'm just starting to find
(04:23):
it's a bit tiring in things, and I'm wondering maybe
if the rest of the country is moving ahead faster
than Auckland, there's getting its mojo back faster than Auckland, Lorna,
you're always traveling. You're probably around the country quite a lot.
I stop failing on the yes.
Speaker 3 (04:37):
Yeah, and I'm with you on christ Church. I mean
they had a very unfortunate event, of course, which meant
that they had rebuilt a lot of that city center
and it planned so beautifully. They've also got only three
percent vacancy rate on retail areas in their CBD. In Auckland,
it's the highest in the country. Thirteen percent vacant, I
(04:58):
mean one in every eight retail stores and the CBD
is empty. That does not help. It's a bit of
a chicken and egg situation. You know, people are going
to come back to the city when there's nothing really there,
but they're not going to Yeah, it's very tricky. We've had,
you know, covids as the rest of the country. Of course,
we've had the city rail link. That's going to help
(05:19):
when that opens next year. Also the International Convention Center
is going to bring some people back as well. So
I think things are improving. But Auckland also is a
collection of cities really, so when we talk about the CBD,
you know, we've got I live over on the North
Shore and you know, Takapunit for me is sort of
(05:40):
my local CBD, and I know West it's the same
and down south it's the same. So we may be
asking too much of Auckland City CBD to become this
hub that everyone travels to.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
I think it can be a hub, Damien. And my
issue is in like I spend quite a lot of
time in central Auckland. My problem is when there's an
event on. So I think there are lots of things
that bring people into the city, but every time I
go to Spark Arena, I get stuck in traffic, can't
get off the right away. You go to the tennis
you've got a plan to be there, really really, because
you can't. There's not really get sort of dropped off.
Like it's like when we put on something and it's great,
(06:15):
we're going to open the convention center and have things
going on there, and thankfully they have parking there, which
I'm sure you can get out of that parking building faster,
but you know what I mean, it's almost like it's
all there. We just can't quite pull it together. We
can't pull it off.
Speaker 4 (06:28):
I think this really Lorna touched on this because when
she said that everyone has their own little CBD Entakapuna
out West West Gate. What you're talking about there is
a city that sprawls over an enormous distance, and what
that means is that people have to drive their cars
because the public planpord just doesn't allow for them to
(06:49):
reach the city center in the way that they can.
And maybe smaller cities and I think christ just also
had this unique opportunity after the earthquake to rethink the
way that city worked, and they've done an incredible job.
So one of the things that they've done is they've
created people first environments where it's about people meeting, walking
around the no cars, and you see this in a
(07:11):
lot of smaller cities. I mean Queens Soun's another example
of that. It's a people first environment. It's about walk ability,
it's about cycling, it's and it's a lot more difficult
to do that with the much larger city where you
have over a million people occupying the same space and
then also sprawled across a huge range. So there are
(07:31):
some challenges and it's always easier to rethink a smaller
space than what it is to rethink a bigger space
because what you're doing is your rethinking segments rather than
the whole.
Speaker 2 (07:42):
Yeah, and looked I mean, and I've always been quite
happy for us to shut down Queen Street and for
us to have more pedestrian places and spaces for people
to gather and want to be and move around. But
it's coming. It's dawning on me that there's there's no
where to get there, there's no good to pack then
walk to these places together. Anyway, I'll stop mo renting
and raving and I'll be over it and no time whatsoever.
But look, thank you both so much for joining me,
Lorna Riley and Damien Vignito. There's nothing like being stuck
(08:04):
in the carpat building going absolutely nowhere for an hour
to get you all wrapped up is there. But I'll
tell you what, I was quite a bit politi than
a lot of other people that were stuck in that
building with me yesterday.
Speaker 1 (08:12):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks. It'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio.
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