September 13, 2025 • 9 mins
The Governor of Utah is calling for calm, following the fatal shooting of conservative activist Charlie Kirk.
The 31-year-old was killed while speaking at an event at Utah Valley University on Thursday.
The alleged killer 22-year-old Tyler Robinson is now in custody.
Governor Spencer Cox says the U.S must end a chapter of violent division.
The Guardian's David Smith says Cox's voice adds to others all calling for unity.
"These remarks were welcomed by others who are making that case, who are just sick of the divisiveness, the default to the anger, the hatred."
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks, EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
So Yes dida Our. Utah Governor Spencer Cox made an
impassioned plea to the people of Utah and all of
America following the assassination of Charlie Kirk. This week. Cox
is urging Americans to find a different path.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
We can return violence with violence, we can return heat
with heat. And that's the problem with political violence, is
it metastasizes because we can always point the finger at
the other side, and at some point we have to
find an off ramp or it's going to get much
much worse.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So what does Charlie Kirk's death mean for the political
divide and political violence in America? Joining me is Washington,
DC Bureau Chief of The Guardian, David Smith. Good morning, David,
good morning. So we heard about this very powerful speech
that was made on Friday saying Americans need to find
an off ramp before this gets worse. You think this
speech will make a difference.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
It will maybe contribute to those voices who are urging
for calm and the cooling of the temperature and trying
to get beyond the bitter partisan fighting that we've seen
over more than a decade in US politics and achieve
you know, recognition of common humanity and you know what
(01:29):
what everyone has in common, certainly Spencer Cox, the governor
of Utah. You know, these remarks were welcomed by others
who are making that case. Who are you know, just
sick of the divisiveness, the default to the anger, the
hatred that characterizes social media in particular, And in another
(01:53):
part of his remark, Spencer Cox tackle that issue and
you know, said social media is part of his problem.
He urged people to, you know, get outside, touch some grass,
get away from it all, switch off. And I think
it's important to recognize he is part of a wider initiative.
This was not just one speech. He's made remarks before
(02:15):
after tragedies, and he's got an initiative going called Disagree
Better through the National Governs Association, where he worked with
Democrats and they've tried to promote civil dialogue. So, you know,
I think it's good people are making that case. At
the same time, there's no doubt this is a perilous
(02:36):
moment for America. The atmosphere's febrile. Just when you thought
think that another line can't be crossed. Somehow, America does
cross that line, and I know many people, especially members
of Congress at the moment, are fearful for their own safety.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yes, because David Cox also said it's a watershed moment.
He asked whether the killing of Charlie Kirk is the
end of a dark chapter for America. Could it change
things or is this just the beginning of a darker chapter?
I mean, is this the way the American people are feeling?
Speaker 4 (03:05):
I think many a. Yeah, there is fear and anxiety
about what is happening. We have seen a surge of
political violence in the US. And I speak as a
former Africa correspondent of The Guardian. I used to travel
around African countries, you know, using that phrase often political violence,
(03:27):
and it you know, denoted this idea that democracy was
breaking down. You know, elections were no longer enough. You know,
politicians might get assassinated. One could and should probably apply
the same prism to the US, where we have seen
the tax on politicians, where you know, elections under threat.
Democracy itself is looking somewhat shaky, and you know, just
(03:48):
in the last few years, we've had an attack on
Nancy Pelosi's husband, she was Speaker of the House. We've
had the January sixth insurrection, where five people died in
the aftermath of that. We of course, lastly have had
two assassination attempts against Donald trum Up earlier this year,
(04:08):
a deadly attack on Democrats at the state level in Minnesota,
and now the killing of Charlie Kirk. I mean, it's
not necessarily new in America, in a country where four
presidents have been assassinated throughout history, and where we certainly
saw a great deal of political violence and turbulence during
the nineteen sixties. But it certainly does seem to be
(04:29):
one of those crisis moments, and nobody really knows, just
to Spencer Cox's point, whether it's going to get worse
before it gets better. You are we are we reaching
that watershed and people be ready to turn the corner
or will things continue to darken? I suspect with Donald
Trump in the White House just being such a divisive
(04:52):
figure and even politicizing this tragedy and using it to
point the finger, we may still be some way away
from turning the corner on this.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yes, the political weaponizing of this celling let's talk a
little bit about that. Donald Trump is blaming the radical left.
He's signaling a crackdown on critics and left leaning institutions.
How problematic is it when you have that kind of
messaging from a president.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
I mean, just to go back to Spencer Cox, I
think that was another reason why his speech stood out,
because it was what many people wanted to hear and
needed to hear, and it was what Americans and people
around the world have come to expect from their leaders
at these moments of crisis. You want that calm, compassionate voice,
calling for unity, calling for healing. I think, in fairness,
(05:39):
we've also heard that from some mainstream politicians in the US,
both Democrat and Republican, you know, in the Senate for example,
But there are others such as Nancy Maser, congressman who's Republican,
who immediately said did Democrats own this? Unsurprisingly, there is
all sorts of fire and brimstone on social media, people
(06:04):
talking about civil war and so on, and and yes,
I'm afraid Donald Trump himself is in that latter camp.
He's one of those who are pouring fuel on the
flames rather than trying to calm the atmosphere. He's blamed
radical Democrats, and you know, as he so often does,
he's making it an US versus them issue. And I think,
(06:28):
you know, there are two many concerns out of that.
One is, will his rhetoric help inspire some you know,
radical individual or a right wing militia to seek vengeance
in some way and feel that they're justified that they
have the presence backing to do that. And then secondly,
could we see it expressed in terms of legislation or
(06:50):
law enforcement crackdown. You know, we're already seeing troops on
the streets of major cities in the US. Trump Trump's
also announced another crackdown in Memphis, Tennessee, for example. Will
this killing be a pretext for, you know, a further
curtailment of civil liberties, perhaps a little reminiscent of what
happened in America after the September eleventh, two thousand and
(07:13):
one attacks.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So, David, how likely is it then that the Democrats
and Republicans could come together to sort this?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
I'm not holding my breath right now, having seen I mean,
arguably a generation long trajectory of polarization. You can sort
of debate where all this really started, but I think
many would say perhaps around the nineteen nineties with Bill
Clinton's presidency and Newt Gingrich of the Republicans adopting some
(07:43):
bare knuckle tactics. And ever since then it's really deepened
and worsened. And social media has been a tremendous accelerant
for that. And you know how people who go into
Congress not so much because of their political expertise or
grasp of policy, but more because they know how to
(08:04):
create a viral sensation on social media and you know,
shock and amaze people and make their name that way,
become a social media star. And of course this was
something Charlie Kirk himself was adept at. And if you
just look at the statistics, the country is more polarized,
as much less overlap between the parties on policy. There
(08:27):
are fewer and fewer seats that are genuinely competitive, you know,
the vast majority of seats you know before election this
is red or this is blue. And again, speaking of accelerants,
you know Donald Trump himself, of course, with his insults,
his language choices, has poured further fuel on those flames.
(08:49):
And yeah, there's I'm afraid even the assassination of Charlie
Kirk is not necessarily going to halt that for now.
We have midterm elections next year, we still have Trump
in office. I don't particularly see and end in sight now.
When Donald Trump is finished as president and somebody else
(09:10):
takes over, that might be more of a turning point.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
David Smith, thank you so much for your thoughts this morning.
That was the Washington, DC bureau chief for the Guardian.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks. It'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks, EDB.
Speaker 2 (00:12):
So Yes dida Our. Utah Governor Spencer Cox made an
impassioned plea to the people of Utah and all of
America following the assassination of Charlie Kirk. This week. Cox
is urging Americans to find a different path.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
We can return violence with violence, we can return heat
with heat. And that's the problem with political violence, is
it metastasizes because we can always point the finger at
the other side, and at some point we have to
find an off ramp or it's going to get much
much worse.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
So what does Charlie Kirk's death mean for the political
divide and political violence in America? Joining me is Washington,
DC Bureau Chief of The Guardian, David Smith. Good morning, David,
good morning. So we heard about this very powerful speech
that was made on Friday saying Americans need to find
an off ramp before this gets worse. You think this
speech will make a difference.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
It will maybe contribute to those voices who are urging
for calm and the cooling of the temperature and trying
to get beyond the bitter partisan fighting that we've seen
over more than a decade in US politics and achieve
you know, recognition of common humanity and you know what
(01:29):
what everyone has in common, certainly Spencer Cox, the governor
of Utah. You know, these remarks were welcomed by others
who are making that case. Who are you know, just
sick of the divisiveness, the default to the anger, the
hatred that characterizes social media in particular, And in another
(01:53):
part of his remark, Spencer Cox tackle that issue and
you know, said social media is part of his problem.
He urged people to, you know, get outside, touch some grass,
get away from it all, switch off. And I think
it's important to recognize he is part of a wider initiative.
This was not just one speech. He's made remarks before
(02:15):
after tragedies, and he's got an initiative going called Disagree
Better through the National Governs Association, where he worked with
Democrats and they've tried to promote civil dialogue. So, you know,
I think it's good people are making that case. At
the same time, there's no doubt this is a perilous
(02:36):
moment for America. The atmosphere's febrile. Just when you thought
think that another line can't be crossed. Somehow, America does
cross that line, and I know many people, especially members
of Congress at the moment, are fearful for their own safety.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
Yes, because David Cox also said it's a watershed moment.
He asked whether the killing of Charlie Kirk is the
end of a dark chapter for America. Could it change
things or is this just the beginning of a darker chapter?
I mean, is this the way the American people are feeling?
Speaker 4 (03:05):
I think many a. Yeah, there is fear and anxiety
about what is happening. We have seen a surge of
political violence in the US. And I speak as a
former Africa correspondent of The Guardian. I used to travel
around African countries, you know, using that phrase often political violence,
(03:27):
and it you know, denoted this idea that democracy was
breaking down. You know, elections were no longer enough. You know,
politicians might get assassinated. One could and should probably apply
the same prism to the US, where we have seen
the tax on politicians, where you know, elections under threat.
Democracy itself is looking somewhat shaky, and you know, just
(03:48):
in the last few years, we've had an attack on
Nancy Pelosi's husband, she was Speaker of the House. We've
had the January sixth insurrection, where five people died in
the aftermath of that. We of course, lastly have had
two assassination attempts against Donald trum Up earlier this year,
(04:08):
a deadly attack on Democrats at the state level in Minnesota,
and now the killing of Charlie Kirk. I mean, it's
not necessarily new in America, in a country where four
presidents have been assassinated throughout history, and where we certainly
saw a great deal of political violence and turbulence during
the nineteen sixties. But it certainly does seem to be
(04:29):
one of those crisis moments, and nobody really knows, just
to Spencer Cox's point, whether it's going to get worse
before it gets better. You are we are we reaching
that watershed and people be ready to turn the corner
or will things continue to darken? I suspect with Donald
Trump in the White House just being such a divisive
(04:52):
figure and even politicizing this tragedy and using it to
point the finger, we may still be some way away
from turning the corner on this.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
Yes, the political weaponizing of this celling let's talk a
little bit about that. Donald Trump is blaming the radical left.
He's signaling a crackdown on critics and left leaning institutions.
How problematic is it when you have that kind of
messaging from a president.
Speaker 4 (05:16):
I mean, just to go back to Spencer Cox, I
think that was another reason why his speech stood out,
because it was what many people wanted to hear and
needed to hear, and it was what Americans and people
around the world have come to expect from their leaders
at these moments of crisis. You want that calm, compassionate voice,
calling for unity, calling for healing. I think, in fairness,
(05:39):
we've also heard that from some mainstream politicians in the US,
both Democrat and Republican, you know, in the Senate for example,
But there are others such as Nancy Maser, congressman who's Republican,
who immediately said did Democrats own this? Unsurprisingly, there is
all sorts of fire and brimstone on social media, people
(06:04):
talking about civil war and so on, and and yes,
I'm afraid Donald Trump himself is in that latter camp.
He's one of those who are pouring fuel on the
flames rather than trying to calm the atmosphere. He's blamed
radical Democrats, and you know, as he so often does,
he's making it an US versus them issue. And I think,
(06:28):
you know, there are two many concerns out of that.
One is, will his rhetoric help inspire some you know,
radical individual or a right wing militia to seek vengeance
in some way and feel that they're justified that they
have the presence backing to do that. And then secondly,
could we see it expressed in terms of legislation or
(06:50):
law enforcement crackdown. You know, we're already seeing troops on
the streets of major cities in the US. Trump Trump's
also announced another crackdown in Memphis, Tennessee, for example. Will
this killing be a pretext for, you know, a further
curtailment of civil liberties, perhaps a little reminiscent of what
happened in America after the September eleventh, two thousand and
(07:13):
one attacks.
Speaker 2 (07:14):
So, David, how likely is it then that the Democrats
and Republicans could come together to sort this?
Speaker 4 (07:20):
I'm not holding my breath right now, having seen I mean,
arguably a generation long trajectory of polarization. You can sort
of debate where all this really started, but I think
many would say perhaps around the nineteen nineties with Bill
Clinton's presidency and Newt Gingrich of the Republicans adopting some
(07:43):
bare knuckle tactics. And ever since then it's really deepened
and worsened. And social media has been a tremendous accelerant
for that. And you know how people who go into
Congress not so much because of their political expertise or
grasp of policy, but more because they know how to
(08:04):
create a viral sensation on social media and you know,
shock and amaze people and make their name that way,
become a social media star. And of course this was
something Charlie Kirk himself was adept at. And if you
just look at the statistics, the country is more polarized,
as much less overlap between the parties on policy. There
(08:27):
are fewer and fewer seats that are genuinely competitive, you know,
the vast majority of seats you know before election this
is red or this is blue. And again, speaking of accelerants,
you know Donald Trump himself, of course, with his insults,
his language choices, has poured further fuel on those flames.
(08:49):
And yeah, there's I'm afraid even the assassination of Charlie
Kirk is not necessarily going to halt that for now.
We have midterm elections next year, we still have Trump
in office. I don't particularly see and end in sight now.
When Donald Trump is finished as president and somebody else
(09:10):
takes over, that might be more of a turning point.
Speaker 2 (09:14):
David Smith, thank you so much for your thoughts this morning.
That was the Washington, DC bureau chief for the Guardian.
Speaker 1 (09:21):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks. It'd be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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