Full Show Podcast: 28 September 2025

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News Talks EDB. Welcome to the Sunday Session with
Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for the best selection of great
reads used Talks EDB.

Speaker 2 (00:28):
Welcome to the Sunday Session. I'm Franchessca Rudkin. Lovely to
have you with us. I am with you until midday
to day. Daylight Saving of course kicked into action this morning.
Don't forget to change all those clocks. It's the ones
in the car that always get me right. On the
show today, tell Us of the Earth author Ken Follett
joins me to talk about researching and writing historical novels.
His latest book is called Circle of Days and it's

(00:50):
set in twenty five hundred BC. It's another riproaring read
and we have five copies of the book to give
away after ten. After eleven, Astra Jrobinson joins me. Astrad
is the creator of pub Choir, the show Slash Choir,
which has become a globe obal sensation. She is bringing
pub Quiet to New Zealand and has written a very

(01:10):
entertaining memoir as to how she got to where she
is today, it's called average at best. Astrid shares her
story with us after eleven, and then of course there
is the rugby, the black Caps and Blackburns getting the
job done. More on that in just a moment, and
you're most welcome to contact me throughout the morning on
ninety two, ninety.

Speaker 3 (01:27):
Two for Sunday session.

Speaker 2 (01:33):
When it comes to Israel and Gaza as a nation,
there is nothing more we want than for her Mass
to hand over the Israeli hostages they took in their
horrific attack in twenty twenty three, and for Israel to
cease its violent and disproportionate response by Razor and Gaza
and the resulting death and starvation of the Palestinian people.
The single mindedness of both sides to follow through with

(01:55):
their extreme goals at seemingly any cost is shocking. No
one is in the right. Israel stands strong in its
determination to annihilate Hammas, regardless of the cost to civilian Palestinians,
international law, and Hermas is prepared to let it happen.
I'm stunned by what I've seen over the last two years,
staggered by what humans can do to each other. The

(02:15):
lack of aid and medical support, and the famine in
the region is utterly unacceptable. It is no surprise people
want to show solidarity with the people and compassion for
the people of Gaza by acknowledging Palestine as a state.
So it will have been a disappointment to many when
Foreign Minister Winston Peters did not follow in France, UK,
Canada and Australia's footsteps and take the opportunity to do this.

(02:38):
At the UN Assembly this week, mister Peters, in a
carefully crafted and pragmatic speech, called for better leadership and
diplomacy and said there was no tangible, positive contribution to
the realization of a two state solution in recognizing the
state of Palestine when the region was still in turmoil,
and that it's not rhetoric but action which is needed.

(02:59):
As much as recognition feels like the right thing to do,
as much as it expresses the extent of our moral outrage,
as much as many of us thought the government would
stand with eighty percent of the other UN member states
by recognizing statehood, mister Peter's speech was a nuanced and
rational refusal to do the same. The purpose of recent

(03:21):
recognition by other nations is to keep alive the possibility
of peace and a two state solution. It provides a
diplomatic nod, but practically does little to bring the likelihood
any closer. You only have to look at Israel's response
so far to see mister Peters has a point, more
Israeli action and Gaza a defiant Hehnyaho promising to finish

(03:42):
the job ongoing development of illegal settlements on the West Bank.
Mister Peters also stated that recognition at this time, we
also think is open to political manipulation by Hamas and Israel.
Hamas believes it's winning the global propaganda war in Israel,
claims recognition rewards terrorism and removes the pressure on Hamas

(04:03):
to negotiate a ceasefire and return hostages. But you got
to remember you might be disappointed, but the most important
thing is that, regardless of statehood recognition, New Zealand remains
a staunch advocate of the two state solution and a
defender of Palestine's right to self determination. But if its
action not words the government wants, why aren't we doing

(04:24):
more than contributing ten million in aid and leaving it
up to a passive US. The only country with sway
in this region. To address the situation, shouldn't the government
at least be looking at sanctions which should make an impact,
albeit small, on a social and economic level to Israel. Tariffs,
travel and trade bands, freezing assets and disinvestment and companies
complicit in the war may also go so some way

(04:47):
to holding the Israeli government to account. Recognition might be
a symbolic gesture that doesn't have much practical value, but
making no effort to get off the fence and doing
nothing at all will be unacceptable to an increasing number
of New Zealanders. For the Sunday Session, geopolitical analystic Gefrey
Miller is with me next, You're most welcome to text

(05:09):
on ninety two ninety two, and shortly Elliott Smith on
the rugby. It was a good night. It is twelve
past nine.

Speaker 3 (05:17):
Keep it's simple. It's Sunday, the Sunday.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Session with Francesca Rutgerter and Wiggles for the best selection
of graverys.

Speaker 3 (05:24):
News Talk said be.

Speaker 2 (05:27):
Fourteen past nine. So the government has finally announced New
Zealand's position on the Palestine statehood. Talking from the UN
General Assembly yesterday, Foreign Minister Winston Peters said Palestine did
not meet the criteria of a state.

Speaker 4 (05:40):
Because recognition is an instrument for peace. As an instant
for peace also does not play because there are no
fully legitimate and viable state of Palestine to recognize.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Prime Minister Christopher Luxon also spoke to media about the decision.

Speaker 5 (05:57):
We're going to do everything we can to buttress and
build the Palestinian authority, but at the moment we have
a Hummas and government and that is unacceptable for us
to recognize any state that has a terrorist organization.

Speaker 2 (06:07):
To talk us through it, I'm joined by geopolitical analyst
to Jeffrey Miller. Good morning, Jeffrey, Good morning, Francesca. Wondering
if I can ask you this question. First up, does
international recognition bring Palestine any closer to statehood?

Speaker 6 (06:22):
Well, it is symbolic in a sense, recognition in a sense.
Winston Peters is correct that you do not have a
viable state at this moment to recognize that. There are
no agreed borders, there's no capital, there's no international airport,
there's no army, and so on. All the trappings of
a state in a sense are absent. But the whole
point is why states are recognizing a Palestinian state right

(06:45):
now is that Israel is doing its utmost to try
and make a state of Palestine impossible. And Beniaminnettinno, who
spoke several hours before when St. Peter's did yesterday, was
clear that he would never accept a Palestinian state. He
said it would be national suicide to allow the creation
of a Palestinian state. So I think the in favor

(07:07):
of creating, of recognizing a Palestinian state is very much
to back that two state solution and to show commitment
to the creation of a Palestinian state. And it is
the majority position here. One hundred and fifty seven states
out of one hundred and ninety three in the UNI
have now recognized a Palestinian state. So New Zealand is
an outlier in the national community by tacking this position.

Speaker 2 (07:29):
So were you surprised by the stance New Zealand's taken.

Speaker 6 (07:31):
Here, Yes, I was, because New Zealand really is outside
the mainstream, and it's outside of the mainstream in terms
of those figures. I gave you one hundred and fifty
seven states recognizing a Palestinian state, and it's out of
sync with its close partners like Australia, like the United
Kingdom like Canada, and these are states with which New

(07:53):
Zealand has worked quite closely when it comes to positions
on the war in Gaza. Since Optop seventh, New Zealand
asign a number of joint statements with Australia and Canada,
for example, and with the United Kingdom. It's worked very
closely with those three countries. So I am surprised. And
also domestically, if you look at polling, we did have
that recent Red Research poll that showed forty two percent

(08:15):
of New Zealanders were in favor of recognizing a Palestinian
state twenty two percent against around a third didn't know,
but it is there is a plurality there forty two
percent who were in favor of recognition of a Palestinian state.
So it is a little surprising.

Speaker 2 (08:29):
Yes, I understand that. You know, if you're you're a
government that represents the people, then you know you've got
to be listening to the people and things. But we
also shouldn't be making decisions based on what our allies
are other people are doing. We should be making our
own decisions too, shouldn't we.

Speaker 6 (08:43):
Well, that's true, and decisions should not necessarily be a
popularity contest in international relations, and there are some arguments
in favor of holding off with recognition, and Winston Peter's
made that case yesterday and the details of his speech
setting out all of these reasons that the that you
know you did have Hamas they're still in charge in Gaza,

(09:04):
that you didn't have a viable state to recognized, and
so on. He was saying very much, and he used
these words, it's when, not if New Zealand recognizes a
Palestinian state. So it's not that New Zealand is against
a Palestinian state. And to the contrary, I think New
Zealand is in favor of it, just not right now.
That's the position from within Sint Peter's. The problem I

(09:24):
think the government will have is that I don't think
anyone in the international community, international observers will be overly
interested in the fine print and the detail of New
Zealand's position. They'll simply be looking at the map and
they'll say that New Zealand is one of a small
group of countries that have sided with Israel here and
you had the Israeli Deputy Foreign Minister overnight celebrating New

(09:44):
Zealand's position calling it an example of moral courage and
common sense. And I think a lot of countries and
this ces particularly for New Zealand's friends and partners in
the Middle East. They'll be perplexed and puzzled and disappointed
by this decision by New Zealand, and they will see
New Zealand as siding with Israel, which is against the
creation of a Palestinian state full stop, even if that
is not.

Speaker 2 (10:04):
In this position, that's the issue. Yeah, I mean, at
the end of the day, You're right, we all want
the same outcome. We all want the same thing to happen.
We want the violence to stop, we want to cease far,
we want aid to get in, we want to be
able to work towards this. Two says, it's just how
we get there. That sort of is the difference, really,
isn't it.

Speaker 6 (10:21):
And indeed, I think New Zealand has spoken out quite strongly,
and Winston Peters has spoken out quite strongly, quite eloquently
many times since October the seventh. He called it an
out of catastrophe last year at the United Nations what
is unfolding in Gaza. I think there's immense frustration at
what is happening in Gaza in the war. Christopher Luxon

(10:44):
came out yesterday and said New Zealand is pro peace
and wants the ceasefire and wants the water in I
do think there is an argument that New Zealand, if
it is going to take this position, and if New
Zealand is going to hold off recognizing a Palestinian state,
there's an argument that New Zealand needs to become more
involved in the nitty gritty of peacemaking rather than just
calling for peace from the safety of the South Pacific,

(11:05):
maybe taking a more active role in the cease fine negotiations,
the peacemaking efforts. Now, that's a thankless task and many
have been burnt in the past by getting involved in this.
I'm not saying New Zealand at all should be doing
this on its own. It needs to work with its partners,
particularly in the Middle East and around the world. But

(11:26):
I think New Zealand can play a small part, a
small but significant part, as a small state that does
get on reasonably well with both sides. And when Christopher
Luxen said that yesterday that New Zealand's a friend to
both sides, well, if we're a friend to both sides.
I think we need to sort this war out, promto
and get involved and become more active. I think Winston

(11:47):
Peters is a pretty experienced foreign minister now he's been
Foreign Minister three times. He does have the statesman like
persona that he likes to present on the international stage.
I think there will be an opportunity if he wanted
tourn if New Zealand wanted to commit resources to New
Zealand becoming a bit more actively involved in the peacemaking process.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
Because of course, yesterday, you know, he did call for
more action, less words. We've really just offered words. And
I was curious to know, is there any action that
New Zealand can do to make a difference. And you've
pointed out a way that we could assist here. What
about sanctions though, I mean can that have an impact
at all?

Speaker 7 (12:22):
Look?

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Sanctions and trade bands, travel bands, tariffs, you know things
like that.

Speaker 6 (12:26):
Look New Zealand's put tariff, Sorry, New Zealand's put travel
bands on Bisilol, small threat the Finance Minister of Israel
and as Bengavia, the National Security minister. Look, there are
extremist settlers that you could put sanctions on. But I
don't think any of these things are really going to
change things overly. And the European Union is looking at

(12:46):
at tariffs on Israeli products, we're looking at at the moment,
there's a drive to ban Israel from the Eurovision Song
contest and so forth. Look, the history of sanctions and
international relations is not particularly favorable in terms of their
ability to make a difference because it tends to galvanize
the population of a state. If you look at Iran,
look at Cuba, you look at Russia. These sanctions policies,

(13:11):
you know, you can put them in place, but they're
usually workarounds and they usually lead to, to say, a
galvanizing of support amongst the population. So it would be
an option. New Zealand might want to go down that
road further, but I don't think we should get ourselves.
I don't think sanctions are going to really make a
huge difference here. What would make a difference is New
Zealand getting involved in the nitty gritty of peacemaking. Look,

(13:33):
it might come up, you might come up with nothing
in the end, and it might not work, but I
don't think that's a reason not to try. And particularly
after taking this position yes, today, if we're going to
take the view, we're going to be even handed here
and we're going to be a friend to both sides,
and we're not going to recognize a Palestinian state because
there isn't one created, because we need the water stop first. Well,

(13:53):
I think you've got particularly an obligation then to become
more actively involved in that peacemaking ceasefire process. And there
are plenty of others involved in this Cutter obviously, which
was bombed for its trouble, you know, Egypt, There are
many across the Middle East, are many states involved in
this process. I think New Zealand as an outside party,

(14:16):
as a small state, a small democracy, it could become
involved in this if it chose to.

Speaker 2 (14:21):
Jeffrey really appreciate your time this morning. Thank you so much.
That was Jeffrey Miller.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
THEOD Sunday session.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
Well, it was a very emotional start to the rugby
game last night, wasn't it All Black? Caleb Clark reduced
to tears when his dad Erroney, surprisingly turned up to
sing the pre match national anthem. It was a very
touching moment and it did the trick, Caleb scoring the
first try and the all Blacks retaining the Blizzo beating

(14:57):
the Wallabies thirty three twenty four z b Rugby commentator
Elliott Smith joins me.

Speaker 3 (15:03):
Now, good morning morning, Francesca.

Speaker 2 (15:05):
Also that we've we've all got some silverware in the trophy.

Speaker 8 (15:08):
Cabinet, absolutely, and the All Blacks win that with a
match to spare, the last sort of remaining trophy in
their cabinet and it does give them a chance of
winning some more next week as they head to perf
Although the spring Boks winning pretty comfortably over Argentina this morning,
they'll go in the box seats the next week's final round.
But the All Blacks put a pretty high price on
the Bledislow. It's that they claim it's their second most

(15:31):
important trophy outside the World Cup in terms of the
ones they compete for, so it stays for a twenty
third straight year for the All Blacks.

Speaker 2 (15:39):
So it was a rip boring start from the All Blacks.
But the next thing you know, we're at halftime and
there's nothing at it. It's twenty seventeen to the All Blacks. Yeah,
a bit tense, but Neve.

Speaker 8 (15:48):
Breaking absolutely and look they had the opportunity to go
on with it and This is probably we talk about
consistency from match to match with the All Blacks, but
I think it's also consistency in the match where they
fade in and out of games and looking the wall
he started playing some really good rugby after they were
behind on the score war they needed to be the
team that scored next when they were twenty to three down,

(16:10):
and they were, and then they got another one and
started applying some pressure to the All Blacks. At twenty
points to three, the All Blacks really should have been
able to kick on from there and mountain an unassailable lead,
but got back to a two point game, you know,
right in the second spell. So look, this is probably
a tale of two teams. That the All Blacks are
not the ruthless team that they once were. When they

(16:32):
were twenty points to three up, they would have kicked
on and put a real score on the Wallabies. But
this also isn't the Wallaby team the they once were
even a couple of years ago, where they had a
soft underbelly and would have rolled over. There's a lot
more leadership in this Wallabies team and we've seen them
fight back against South Africa and Argentina over the last
month or so. They managed to do it against the

(16:53):
All Blacks but ultimately fall short. So you know, for
the All Blacks there are obviously some still some challenges,
still a lot of things to work on, but they
would like that last ten minutes we're under pressure, they
didn't fold like they did Wellington. They managed to come
out and secure the match winning try and.

Speaker 2 (17:09):
Great to have cam Reuguard back, welcome return any other standouts.

Speaker 8 (17:13):
Yeah, cam Rogard made a huge difference, so I thought
for the All Blacks in the way that they attacked.
But I was also impressed by Leroy Carter. I think
had an excellent game on the wing and popping up
in all sorts of places, showing his seven's background in
his ability to get over the ball and make spot tackles.
He nullified Joseph Suletti on a couple of occasions and

(17:36):
the Wallaby's midfield, so I was really impressed by what
he did as well. For Ardie Savilla stood up as
well and after a quiet game and Wellington delivered for
the All Blacks in the game where he was captain
and they needed him to deliver. There was one moment
where he snuffed out of Wallaby's attack surge backwards and
made a cover tackle. So very impressed by him and

(17:57):
as you said, Cam Royguard him being backward was worth
his weight in gold two tries and just made a
real difference in the shape of the All Blacks back
line and showed you here he is emerging as one
of the best halfbacks of this current generation worldwide.

Speaker 2 (18:11):
Yeah, I think Leboy might be a new favorite All Black.
Hey look at the referee a bit pedantic around the breakdown,
do you think?

Speaker 8 (18:17):
Absolutely yes? But to the All Bicks credit, they adapted
better than the Bobbies were able to do. I think
the Wallabies considered the last eight penalties of the game
it was a fifteen to ten against some twenty five
penalties in test match is too much. I think a
little bit too pedantic from Andrea Piati that the Wallabies

(18:38):
have struggled to adapt to him, though they in the
Lions Test the second Test in Melbourne were not given
a late penalty that they believe they should have been given.
Then again having him last night, they really struggled to
adapt to some of his refereeing. I thought he was
too pedantic, didn't find a way to make it into
a contest or a flowing contest, which is what we

(19:01):
want in rugby. But you've got to adapt to what
the referees doing and the Wallabies weren't able to do that.
But I think he is one of those referees that
World Rugby are keen to promote. Probably has happened a
little bit too early for him.

Speaker 2 (19:13):
And yet the Black Ferns they got the job done,
which is excellent. They've come away with stird but I'm
sure there's going to be quite a lot of reflection
on this tournament.

Speaker 8 (19:19):
And so yeah, absolutely, and so there should be. I
think the Black Ferns, you know, were at times in
that game last night, I thought we're playing some of
their best rugby of the tournament. But ultimately they didn't
go there to come away with a bronze mittle. They
meant to come away with the trophy and they weren't
able to do that. There has to be some real

(19:40):
questions on how they closed the gap to England and Canada,
especially Canada being basically an amateur union. New Zealand with
a lot more resources, not as many as the English Union,
but there has to be some questions around the coaching
and also pathways into the national setup. Given how much
of a difference the sevens players made when they came in,

(20:01):
I think the onus has to be on the fifteens
pathways and what that's doing for the game in New Zealand.
So ultimately they leave with the bronze medal or not
what they went for. But you know, New Zealand's you know,
with a bit of work to do before Australia twenty
twenty nine.

Speaker 2 (20:14):
Alliott Smith, thank you so much. Can you hear your
thoughts on the game too? Ninety two ninety two Local
politics is up next. It's nine thirty.

Speaker 1 (20:24):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
at b.

Speaker 2 (20:30):
And joining me now is New Zealand Herald Deputy Political
editor Adam Pierce. Good morning, Adam.

Speaker 9 (20:36):
Good morning.

Speaker 2 (20:36):
It's a bit of a tough week for the government
and it is you're not that much better for the
opposition and I'm thinking about the mood of the boardroom
survey here. So what now, what next? How does the
government get themselves back into the good books.

Speaker 9 (20:52):
Well, it's a tough question and when you look at
the strategy that they've pursue thus far. It does come
down to economic recovery. And you know when you see
you look at the findings of the mood of the boardroom,
it could have been a lot worse. You know, the
survey closed before the latest GDP figures came out, which
SOTIN point on it e canom contract and so you
know that feedback could have been could have been much worse.

(21:13):
I mean, it wasn't all bad. You know, you had
the support for the fast track process and you see
those projects getting underway a lot between now and the
end of the year. Investment boosts, they like that, But
the clear message is having a clearer strategy on those
big national issues and just getting to them faster. But
at the end of the day, you know, there's only

(21:35):
so much. There's only so much that the government can do.
If the economy is not if the economy is not moving,
if the economy is not improving at the rate they
needed to to be able to really boost those ratings
and get people feeling as though their wages are growing
there and the economy is getting back on track, then
there's there's not a lot they can do.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
So does it come down to messaging it them?

Speaker 9 (21:57):
Well, a lot of it a lot of it is
and you've seen consistent messaging from Christopher Luxe and Nikola
willis that they you know, that it's a turnaround job
and that there's a two speed economy, and you know,
you hear from a lot of people that that is
the case. You're looking at areas like christ Church Hawks
Bay as well are both referenced as areas, particularly when
it comes to horticulture the primary industry, and we hear

(22:19):
a lot about how that's going very very well overseas,
but people aren't feeling it in Auckland and Wellington. And
I think the government really accepts that. But how quickly
they can turn that around will be key in terms
of moving that public sentiment.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
And of course, you know you mentioned that GDP figure
and we're talking about sort of this lack of productivity
and quite a lot of it has come down to
the cost of energy. And I believe that there is
an energy announcement today. Is that correct?

Speaker 9 (22:47):
Well, it will be coming soon when we're not sure.
The reform has been described as significant but surgical, so
take from that what you will. I mean, energy was
a massive point that was raised through the mood of
the border and feedback that they that is a key issue,
particularly from a business spective, and we saw a story

(23:08):
from my college, Jamien saw a Curier poll commissioned by
the Auckland Business Chamber and this energy had some interesting
insights there. So sixty two percent of people supported the
government underwriting the cost of new electricity generations. About twenty
one percent we're against that. About half of people actually
supported breaking up the gentailor so that's separating the generation

(23:32):
and the retail arms. About twenty percent post that, while
about a third well, I'm sure so there's certainly appetite
in the public for four change in the sector. It
will just depend on who wins the battle in cabinet
now Shane Jones in New Zealand. First, they're big supporters
of intervention to lower power prices, which will also it
will aid Shane Jones' regional development aspirations. Obviously, everyone will

(23:56):
have seen the middle closures in small town New Zealand,
which is really painful for those communities. At the other
end of the spectrum, though, you have ACT which is
going to oppose this kind of intervention. You know, we
just want to leave it up to the market. And
then you've got the nets in the middle, so we
should get a good seem of how that debate has

(24:17):
gone on in cabinet once we see this announcement, it
should be coming in the coming days.

Speaker 2 (24:22):
Thanks so much. Adam appreciate that es Shane Jones has
called for the possible renationalization of the Jen Taylors or
the government inking a long term contract with them. And
I suppose if you've got all these varying different views
around the table, probably the latter is more likely. He
don't forget that best selling author Ken followed us with me.
After ten, We're going to talk about his new book,

(24:44):
Day's Circle of Days. Got some copies to give away
as well, so don't go anywhere. It's twenty three to.

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Ten the Sunday Session Full show podcast on iHeartRadio powered
by News Talks ab Okay.

Speaker 2 (24:58):
So longtime listeners of this show will know that I'm
a really big fan of Fat Bear Week, so every
year I'd like to give your little rundown on what's coming.
I'm thrilled to say that this year's competition is well
underway and it is huge, the competition and the bears.
For those new to Fat Bear Week, it's an annual
competition between brown bears and Alaska. The bears are all

(25:19):
up against each other as they try to eat their
way to fatness and prepare for hibernation because, as you know,
fat bear is a healthy bear. You can watch all
this on live cameras. It's strangely compelling entertainment. This year,
Rather than talk you through my own observations, I thought
I would track down one of the Fat Bear Week

(25:39):
crew for a chat. And Naomi Bok is a former
park ranger and longtime worker on Fat Bear Week, and
she joins me, Now.

Speaker 10 (25:45):
Good morning, good morning to you.

Speaker 2 (25:48):
How is it going. How is twenty twenty five going?
I hear that the bears are fatter than ever this year?

Speaker 10 (25:54):
They are.

Speaker 11 (25:56):
I mean, it's an amazing competition this year, and it
was so hard to create a bracket. We had more
salmon than any of us had ever seen. The river
was jam packed, and so there were so many fat bears.
How could we choose?

Speaker 2 (26:12):
Do you know how much weight a bear will put
on over the summer? I mean, it's not like you
can get them on scales.

Speaker 12 (26:19):
Is it.

Speaker 7 (26:20):
No?

Speaker 11 (26:22):
You know, I don't think you'd survive now out of ten,
So we think they gained about a third of their
weights in prepping for hibernation. We did someone from the
Park Service did do a light our scans of them
for two years and was able to estimate volume and

(26:44):
approximate their weeks. So we think our fattest bears are
between twelve hundred and fourteen hundred pounds.

Speaker 2 (26:51):
Okay, that's quite substantial. Otis one of the famous bears
from the park who you now think has passed away.
We haven't seen him for a few years. Forty two
seven in an hour, I believe? Is that normal?

Speaker 7 (27:05):
Yes?

Speaker 11 (27:07):
I mean they're amazing this year. One of the bears
six oh two, who is in the semi finals eight
one hundred and twenty salmon in one day.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
That's impressive.

Speaker 7 (27:21):
You've been.

Speaker 2 (27:24):
Never had Sorry, I was gonna say, you've been involved
with this since twenty nineteen. How much has this competition,
in this concept growing. I mean it began sort of
as a day competition, didn't it.

Speaker 11 (27:36):
Yeah, in twenty fourteen. Mike Fitz, who is now the
naturalist at Explorer dot org where you can watch the bears,
he was a park ranger in twenty fourteen and he
thought jee it'd be fun to take a skinny picture
and a fat picture and we'll have fat Bear Tuesday.
And they were so successful they had sixteen hundred.

Speaker 10 (27:58):
Votes, so he thought, well, let's do a.

Speaker 11 (28:01):
Whole week and we'll have the championship on fat Bear Tuesday.
Well that was fourteen last year there were over a
million votes from over one hundred countries.

Speaker 10 (28:14):
It's a little bit of growth.

Speaker 2 (28:15):
How many live streams have you got going?

Speaker 7 (28:19):
Well?

Speaker 11 (28:19):
On the river there are seven live streams going. There's
one also on Dumpling Mountain, which is just above the river,
and the explore dot org has almost two hundred live
stream cameras all over the world of wildlife and animals.

(28:40):
And the other wonderful thing about the cams on the
Brooks River is that they're operated by remote camera operators
who are volunteers. They're all over the world, so you
can follow the action. It's really pretty great.

Speaker 2 (28:53):
Oh my gosh, I could do that one year. I've
got to bring this up because in one of the
live feeds I was watching this week, I was watching
four beers as they were wandering through the river and
catching salmon, and then the camera panned out and there
was a man fly fishing Naomi and I live in
a country. There's pretty much nothing out in the wild
that can kill you, right, So I had a bit
of a bannock about this man fly fishing one for

(29:17):
salmon while there's all these beers, you know, fishing for salmon.

Speaker 13 (29:21):
Well, is that normal?

Speaker 11 (29:23):
Well, it is normal. They're not really fishing for salmon,
they're fishing for trout. I have them trout in that river.
We'd like to say to visitors to Brooks River, you're
never safe there. We try to help you be as
safe as possible. So as soon as anyone steps foot

(29:47):
near the Brooks River, they have to go to bear
school and they're taught our rules, which are pretty strict.
And to be fly fishing in the river, you have
to get a permit, and you have to stay at
least fifty yards away from a bear. And if a
bear is in the river anywhere near you, you have to

(30:09):
cut your line so the bear doesn't associate people with food.
You can't carry food with you around Brooks Camp. You
have to eat behind an electric fence or in a
hard sided building. No gum, no lozenges. You're only allowed
to carry water, and that's done us well. So far,

(30:30):
because would there have been no incidents?

Speaker 2 (30:34):
So is the saying correct? Naomi? If it's black, fight back,
if it's brown, lie down, if it's white, say good night.

Speaker 11 (30:42):
Well, I don't know about the black bears. I'm not
really well versed in those, but yes, I think with
the other two you're correct. But the trick is you
don't want to surprise a bear. They're not really they're
not in the mood to fight with people. They're not aggressive,
they're defensive. So if they know you're around, you say

(31:06):
at a safe distance and around the books over you
talk calmly to them. Those bears that we have are
kind of used to being around people. Doesn't mean something
could happen, But yeah, never run is the big thing.

Speaker 3 (31:21):
People Never run.

Speaker 2 (31:23):
Good to know. Now, look, you're down to the semi finalists.
You've got four beers leaved in the competition. How do
you think might take it out?

Speaker 11 (31:31):
Well, it's tough this year. Six h two is up
against thirty two. They're both huge bears. Six H two
has been taught the heart of many bear Can viewers
because he likes to float on his back after a
big salmon dinner, and he's been dubbed the Flotato, and

(31:55):
he's up against thirty two Chunk, who is just huge
and it's phenomenal because he came back to the river
with a broken jaw and that makes it's pretty hard
to eat. But your bears are just resilient, they're adaptable,
and he figured out how to eat to fatten up
for hibernation. So those are two very fat bears. And

(32:18):
then there's one twenty eight, last year's champion, who is
a two times Fat Bear Week champion, excuse me, and
she's up against eight five six, who if you look,
if you go to Fatbeerweek dot Org, eight five six
was so skinny when he came back, So I don't know,

(32:39):
I'm kind of thinking it could be chunks here, could
be thirty two's chunks.

Speaker 2 (32:44):
Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much for your
time this morning, Naomi, really appreciate it. If you want
to go and have a look at the live cameras,
as Naomi sid you, just if you just google Fat
Bear Week, you'll leaned up at an explore dot org.
And I find that I click on the camera that
has the most views at that moment, because that's generally
got the most bears there, but all little bead They're
all frolicking around catching salmon, tearing them to pieces. Fourteen

(33:07):
hundred pounds is about six hundred and thirty five kilograms,
So you wouldn't find me fishing near any of those
bears anyway. Back home, Voting in our very own popular
wildlife competition, Bird of the Year closes today. This is
the twentieth Bird of the Year competition. If you want
to vote, you need to do it by five pm today.
You can vote online at birdof the Year dot org,

(33:29):
dot enz and the champion bird will be announced tomorrow.
It is twelve to ten.

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Hard Talk, Bold takes big stories. It's the Mic Hosking breakfast.

Speaker 14 (33:39):
I mean, apart from the Greens, it seems we're all
celebrating the Fonterra result that profit a bit over a
billion dollars sixteen billion in cash returns to the farms.
Peter McBride, as the chairman of Fonterra and as well
as Wayne Lane for the Fed Farmer says.

Speaker 15 (33:49):
This is the new normal. Is he bullish or right?

Speaker 12 (33:52):
Well?

Speaker 7 (33:52):
Both?

Speaker 9 (33:53):
Well, I guess these are not the most as a
farmer as any might.

Speaker 14 (33:55):
I guess so, but I mean, it just keeps on
keeping on at ten plus, not only out of this
last season, but forecast for this next season. When does
it end, and if it does end, how well?

Speaker 9 (34:04):
I don't know when it ends.

Speaker 16 (34:06):
I guess it's a function of global support and demand,
but similarly doing our best to maintain these sort of levels.

Speaker 14 (34:11):
Back tomorrow at six am The mic Husking Breakfast with
Raindrob News Talk, zed B Relax.

Speaker 3 (34:18):
It's still the weekend.

Speaker 1 (34:19):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudgin and Wiggles for
the best selection of Greg Reads, used Talk.

Speaker 7 (34:25):
Zed B.

Speaker 12 (34:29):
Talk.

Speaker 3 (34:29):
Make me believe this way like sen back.

Speaker 10 (34:34):
To watch mind.

Speaker 17 (34:40):
This is new music from.

Speaker 2 (34:42):
Rita Aura, all natural kind of I'm liking the sound
of uskind of. It's sort of starting to get you
ready for summer, you know, fingers crossed Summers on its way.
Thank you very much for your texts. A few of
you have texted and say, look what sorry, what is
the website for this this salmon baar thing? If you
just google Fat Bear week live cams, it'll come up

(35:03):
explore dot org and if you click on that, you'll
go straight through to the rivers. If you just want
to go to explore dot org. You can then you
just click on live cams, go to the Brown Bears
and you end up at the Capmin National Park and
it really is quite lovely. I don't it probably was
because I was doing early edition this week and I
get to a point in the day where I'd be

(35:24):
a bit tired, and you're sitting and watching the bears
frolicking in the water and then sort of tearing these
salmoned pieces.

Speaker 7 (35:29):
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
It was just strangely compelling and quite relaxing entertainment. Thank
you very much for the feedback regarding the All Blacks.
I think you're all pretty happy with the way things progress.
Last night, Texas says, you can see that the All
Black's always improving with their passing, crisper, snappy and fast
beat the flat defenses. A lot of you loving Royguard

(35:51):
being back. Reguard has focused. It's good for a half
back in the backs created that last try perfectly keep
up the good work. Cam quick Dummy runs around the
base and taps everyone. Pretty pleased to have him back.
In regards to the government statement of on Palestinian statehood yesterday, Francesca,
thank you for telling a guest that New Zealand should

(36:12):
make its own decisions and not to blindly follow other
countries for the sake of a popularity contest. I agree
with Winston Peters there is no state to recognize, but
we support the concept. Once conditions are right, we should
keep our noses out of this conflict. The lefties will
be howling as they do about everything, and most people
are sick of it. Francisco, We're proud of New Zealand's
position taken at you and yesterday a genuine statesman was witnessed,

(36:34):
an action set pill and real government's position on Palestine.
A wonderful lecture of mine from Lincoln University taught me
about critical thinking and how often people tend to go
with the flow. We might remember Albert Einstein's words, what
is right is not always popular, and what is popular
is not always right. So thank you very much for
your feedback.

Speaker 1 (36:51):
It is six to ten the Sunday Session Full Show
podcast on my Heart Radio powered by newstalksb.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Right up Next, best selling author Ken Follett joins me
to talk about his new book, Circlar Days and how
your research for a historical novel set in twenty five
hundred BC. We're going to talk about the key to
writing a successful historical novel and find out whether Ken
would ever like to write about the present delightful Ken
followed us up next, and don't forget we have got

(37:22):
five copies of the book to give away. I'll tell
you how you can go on the draw to win those.
After the interview. You're with News Talk z B News
is up next.

Speaker 7 (37:31):
Just send you.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Baby Way.

Speaker 12 (37:35):
The clouds are pain the currently c Gord cloud of Guy.

Speaker 10 (37:43):
Way.

Speaker 12 (37:43):
The dark to says, have in.

Speaker 7 (37:45):
The mill fib You're on mine Mine.

Speaker 12 (38:08):
You showing up, Chrystal cantiy Off worse body had to
be showing up The Josty talks to me of love
wordbody had to be.

Speaker 18 (38:25):
Baby play the clouds paint the perfect shaded yellow all.

Speaker 12 (38:30):
The classes, Baby to play the tap Todays not Thinking
the Man both in and a bab.

Speaker 7 (38:40):
Baby, You're on my, Baby, You're on mine.

Speaker 3 (39:04):
It's someday. You know what the means.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin and Winkles for
the Best Election of great Reads.

Speaker 3 (39:12):
News talks't be.

Speaker 2 (39:20):
Good to have you with us. It is seven past ten.
You're with the newstalks they've been Ken followsh is the
master of the historical epic novel. After starting his career
as a thriller writer in the seventies, Ken's decision to
write The Pillars of the Earth in nineteen eighty nine
set his career on a different trajectory, and boy was
it a successful one. Pillars itself has sold over twenty

(39:40):
seven million copies and to date remains his most famous novel.
His total book sales now sit around one hundred and
ninety eight million copies globally.

Speaker 3 (39:51):
Not bad right.

Speaker 2 (39:53):
Ken's latest epic undertaking is based on one of the
great mysteries of our age, the building of Stonehenge. The
book is called Circle of Days. Ken Follett, good morning,
Thank you so much for being with us.

Speaker 15 (40:07):
It's a pleasure.

Speaker 3 (40:07):
Thank you for having me.

Speaker 2 (40:09):
Can we start with research, because research is critical to
the success of your books. How much research goes then
to one of your books?

Speaker 15 (40:18):
Well, I normally spend about a year preparing to write
the book, between six months and a year, and that
would be a combination of figuring out the plot and
doing the research. So they happened together. What happens is
that I think of something that could happen in the story,

(40:39):
and then I think, well, could that really happen or not?

Speaker 7 (40:42):
I need to.

Speaker 15 (40:44):
Find out whether this is possible. And also so then
I read a book about it or something, or search
the internet, and that gives me ideas for other dramatic
scenes in the story. So the two things work together.

Speaker 2 (40:59):
You've written books which of course been set in the
tenth and eleventh centuries, twelfth, fourteenth, sixte and twentieth century.
A certain amount of reference material is available your new book,
your latest book, Circle of Days, the story begins around
the year twenty five hundred BC on presuming there isn't
as much reference material available or were you surprised at

(41:22):
what you could discover.

Speaker 15 (41:23):
No, no, you're absolutely right about that. There's very little
is known about the Stone Age, and that's partly, of course,
because they left no records. They didn't have writing, and
reading had not been invented in Western Europe at the time,
although it existed in it was beginning to be invented
in the Middle East. But so they didn't leave anything written,

(41:45):
they didn't do many cave paintings, and so all we've
really got is what the archaeologists dig up out.

Speaker 7 (41:54):
Of the ground.

Speaker 15 (41:55):
And so but my policy is is I find out
what's known by you know, what the historians feel confident about,
and then it isn't known. I think. I I'm entitled
to make up something plausible. It has to be plausible,
it has to relate to the known facts. But I'm
allowed to imagine how things might have been.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
Is this what a trick did you? What a track
did you to this particular era and the story of
stone Hinge?

Speaker 15 (42:25):
Well, I saw a book, In fact, I saught the
title of a book, and the book was called How
to Build Stonehenge. And I, just before I even bought
the book, I just thought that sounds like a Canfollick story,
how to Build Stonehenge? And and I've read the book
and I began to think about it. It's a story

(42:47):
in which ordinary human beings do something extraordinary. And that's
really the kind of story that I like, where where
we rise above our circumstances and U and you know,
it became more and more interesting as I went on.

Speaker 2 (43:05):
What you were so good at is sitting creating these worlds,
taking us into this world, but you also make the
characters relevant to us. What is the secret to taking
historical figures but making them relevant to the modern day.
I'm presuming that it's something you intend to.

Speaker 15 (43:24):
Do well, absolutely, and I think the secret is that
there are certain things that worry human beings that go
very deep and are probably the same at any period
of history. For example, we worry about love and marriage

(43:45):
and sex and the children. I think everybody does that
in every age. We worry about violence, crime and war.
And if the story is in these areas, then whatever
period you're in, these things will be on people's minds.

Speaker 2 (44:03):
I'm fascinated by how you take such an enormous period
of history and turn it into one novel. I mean,
these are quite complex stories. What's the art to that?

Speaker 15 (44:18):
Well, the story really has to come out of the research.
Is that you can't take a modern love story and
plant it in Tudor times, for example, or in the
Middle Ages. That the way it has to work is
the story idea has to come out of the circumstances
of that historical period. And then of course the characters

(44:40):
that you invent can have or the concerns and all
the hopes and fears of every historical period. But they're linked,
directly linked. To something specific to the Middle Ages or
the sixteenth century or the Victorian era.

Speaker 2 (45:00):
We were just talking therefore, we were talking before about,
you know, making these characters so relevant, I imagine mean
that you would look back through history and see a
lot of parallels with modern times.

Speaker 15 (45:12):
Well, I think so, although you know what I look
for in every period of history, there are people who rebel.
They say I'm not going to be the person that
I'm told to be. You know, the women all through
history who have said I don't want to be married

(45:35):
and have children. I want to be a scientist, or
I want to be a painter, or something like that.
And of course they're the most interesting people who write about.
So although occasionally I'm accused of making the story modern,
the truth of the matter is that not everybody is

(45:55):
typical of the era that they live in, and the
people who go against the tide are the most interesting people.

Speaker 2 (46:06):
What did you learn about stone Hinge that fascinating you.
Maybe you didn't know.

Speaker 15 (46:10):
Well, something that I really didn't know about was the
importance of flint. It's the Stone Age, so they have
no metal tools, so they have no knives. The only
cutting tool they have is a flint and they used this,
you know, whatever they did chop down trees. For example,

(46:31):
they had at a little hand axe and you can't,
I can't. We can't show this on the radio, can be.
But I can show it to you now. So it's
it's smaller than my hand and I've got little hands,
and that's the kind of thing they would use to
chop down an oak tree. So it must have taken
them a long time, but it was all they had.

(46:51):
And the other thing about it is that the best
flint is found quite deep underground, so they mined it. Now,
we don't think of the Stone Age as being sophisticated
enough to have mines, but in this country, in England,
there are the remains of many flint mines. And I
was able to go down one quite deep. I had

(47:14):
to wear, you know, the apparit a wire that connected
me to the surface in case I stumbled on the ladder,
so that I wouldn't fold to my death. And then
when I got to the base of the shaft, I
saw that there were tunnels going radially out from the
base of the shaft in all directions. In other words,

(47:36):
just like a modern day coal mine, which I've also
been down coal mines for research, but I had to
crawl on my hands and knees. This was one of
the most difficult bits of research that I did, crawling around,
cowlering around twenty meters underground on my hands and knees.
I had knee patches and elbow patches and gloves and

(47:57):
a helmet, investigating, trying to imagine what it was like
for the Stone Age people who were looking for these
but very vawaluable flints. And then the importance of that is,
of course they were miners. You can't eat flints. They
had to trade the flints for what they needed, food
and clothing and so on. And that proves to us

(48:20):
that there was trading in the Stone Age, which you know,
we might not have been sure of otherwise. And so
that was the only industry they had, really mining flints
and sharpening them. That's called napping. You have to hit
the flint with a stone in such a way that
a flake comes off and leaves a sharp edge. Quite

(48:43):
a skill. And so that whole industry exists. That I
had no idea that that whole industry existed.

Speaker 2 (48:52):
Fascinating the places I'm sure you've been to, some very
very interesting places. With all the historical novels that you
have written and the research that you've done, can you
start it out as a journalist, then you became a
thriller writer before turning to these historical novels. And of
course I think everybody has read Pillars of the Earth.
What made you turn to historical fiction.

Speaker 15 (49:14):
Well, it was the cathedrals themselves. One I was writing thrillers.
I wrote thrillers because I like thrillers. I still do
like thrillers. In fact, I was so deep into one
that I was I was a bit late for this
talk with you this evening. I had to be phoned on.

Speaker 2 (49:28):
You weren't told, No, you were on time. No complaints.

Speaker 7 (49:33):
Oh good.

Speaker 15 (49:34):
Anyway, So I was, I was just interested in the cathedrals,
and I was, I mean, they're very beautiful, that they've
been there for hundreds and hundreds of years, But I
was interested in the people who built them and how
they built them. And you'll obviously this curiosity of mine

(49:55):
obviously applies in a similar way to Stonehenge, although the
circumstances are completely different and the story is completely different.
But I I thought that there was a great popular
novel to be written about building a cathedral, and a
lot of people didn't agree with me, and some of

(50:17):
my publishers were very nervous about it. I think they
thought I was going to though I might write a
difficult book, you know, a book that's really only for
intellectuals or something like that, and really I was convinced
that there could be a great popular novel about this.
One of my publishers actually took my wife Barbara aside

(50:39):
and said, you've got to stop Ken writing this book.
It's going to ruin his career. And so it was
perhaps the only time in my life when I've been writing,
everybody else has been wrong anyway, that doesn't happen to
me anywhere near as often as I'd like. So anyway,
so I was convinced that that would be it would
be a terrific book, and I went ahead with it.

(51:02):
And then, of course I really had to make sure
that it was you know, readable and enjoyable and and
paid a page turner, because if i'd if I'd eased
up on that that impulse, then the publishers would have
been proved right anyway, So it's, as you obviously know,
it turned out very well and a lot of people

(51:24):
have really enjoyed that book. I'm very glad I wrote it.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
It's a bit of an odd question, but we we
live in quite interesting times. Do you ever wish that
you could go into the future and write about what's
happening today? Is historical not is historical fiction?

Speaker 7 (51:38):
Oh?

Speaker 15 (51:38):
That would be interesting, wouldn't it, Because of course in
the future you'd know how all the crises that we're
living through that we know, you'd know how they ended.
I'm often asked if I'd like to go into the past,
and I would like to talk to Shakespeare. I think
if if if I had a time machine, that would

(51:59):
be my first trip, because I'd like to ask him
about the good things and the and the bad things.
You know in his book, I'd like to I'd like
to know read I mean, his most famous speech, to
be or not to be? That is the question whether
it's nobler in the mind to suffer the string spring,

(52:20):
the strings and arrows of slings and arrows of outrageous fortune,
or to take arms against the sea of troubles. And
wait a minute, will you can't take arms against a cee?
That's a crap line. Will did you were you in
a hurry or or is there some deep meaning there

(52:41):
that I haven't noticed. I'd love to ask him that.

Speaker 2 (52:43):
I think he's probably very grateful. We haven't devised the
time machine, just you. One other thing I want to
quickly ask you about, Ken is it You've been involved
in a lot of charities over the years, and you
were president of the Dyslexia Action for ten years, as
well as many others. What drove you to get involved
in an organization like that.

Speaker 15 (53:00):
Well, you know, given given the life I've lived, it
seems to me such a tragedy when people can't read,
or can't read without difficulty. It's given me such joy.
You know, I was obviously not dyslexic. I could read
when I was four years old, and I've loved reading
ever since, starting with you know, Noddy goes to toy

(53:23):
Town and all the way through James Bond.

Speaker 10 (53:27):
And.

Speaker 15 (53:29):
It's given me such joy. And I feel it's such
a shame if people can't read, and if there's a
way to help them, we should.

Speaker 7 (53:36):
And I was.

Speaker 15 (53:39):
Some of the I'm not justlected. Some of the people
in my family are dyslexic, and I'm dyslexic, and I've
seen them struggle with it, and there was a time
when schools just didn't even believe in dyslexia. And you
still come across schools where they say there's no such
thing as dyslexia. But I think it's great if those
people get special help. I also organized the National Year

(54:03):
of Reading in ninety eight to ninety nine, and the
object of that campaign was to was to h persuade
people to read for pleasure, because that's that's the way
you develop your literacy abilities, when you're just doing it
for fun, doing it because you enjoy it, and so

(54:25):
and the more the more that a young person reads
for pleasure, the better literacy skills that person will have
all through their life. So so it always seemed to
me these were very worthwhile. I know there are there
are one hundred, maybe probably one thousand charities that are
worth supporting, but that was the one that seemed closest
to my heart.

Speaker 2 (54:46):
Do you ever stop and reflect on your career? Thirty
eight box, one hundred and ninety eight million copies sold.
I mean, it's pretty phenomenal.

Speaker 15 (54:54):
Well, when I do, I can hardly believe it. I mean,
it's really two hundred million books. I mean, how did
that happen? I mean, I you know, I was always ambitious.
I wanted a lot of people to read my books.
But that just you can't imagine two hundred million books,
can you. I mean, I don't know how many times

(55:15):
they go around the world, end on end. So I'm
sort of I'm sort of gobsmacked when I think about it.
I don't think about it very much, but when I
do think about it and somebody says, how many books
have you sold in total? And I say, it's one
hundred and ninety eight million at the moment and still rising,
And then I think, wow, that's unbelievable.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
That's a lot of joy of reading, isn't it a
lot of joy?

Speaker 3 (55:42):
Yes?

Speaker 15 (55:42):
Yes, I hope so.

Speaker 2 (55:43):
Ken Folett, thank you so much for your time. It's
been a delight to talk to you.

Speaker 15 (55:47):
I enjoyed it very much.

Speaker 7 (55:48):
Thank you.

Speaker 2 (55:49):
And Ken's new book, Circle of Days is in stalls now.
We've got five copies to give away. To enter, you
need to text your full name address to ninety two
ninety two, along with the answer to this question what
historical site is Circle of Days based on? So it's
not too hard. As a lovely text here from Christine

(56:09):
and I'll get my producer to pass this on. Christine.
I'm a great fan of Ken Follett and I brought
his new book yesterday and from page one I'm completely riveted,
So please pass that on. All his books I have
read have brought great joy and just improved my love
of reading. He would have been very pleased to hear that.
Thank you for your text. Don't forget the creator of
pub Choir, Astrad Jorgensen. As with us after eleven it

(56:33):
is twenty four past ten.

Speaker 3 (56:35):
There's no better way to start your Sunday.

Speaker 1 (56:38):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and Wiggles for
the best selection of great reads.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
US Talk said, be.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
Reading is a great way for kids to spend the
school holidays, and with the new Wick Calls Kids Top
fifty list out now, your young readers will easily be
able to find a new favorite. Wick Calls talied up
the thousands of votes received and once again it is
a great mix of recent new releases and the classics
beloved by so many of us over many years. Has
proven very hard to shake Harry Potter from the top

(57:09):
of the list. He's back at number one. Again. But
he's in the company of eighteen titles by New Zealand
authors and illustrators and fifteen titles or series new to
the list, so there's a breadth of reading ages and themes.
There's truly a book on this list for everyone. With
the Kids' Top fifty Great Books, toys, games, puzzles and

(57:29):
gorgeous stationery, there really is something for everyone.

Speaker 3 (57:33):
At Wickles for Sunday Session.

Speaker 19 (57:37):
On the Day Streetsy, this is brand new music from
Florence and the Machine.

Speaker 2 (57:51):
It's called one of the Greats. I'm very excited he's
got a new album coming out. Everybody's scream what a
great title. Let's due out on the thirty first of October.
Joining me now is editor at flicks dot co dot MZ,
Steve Neil. Good morning, Good morning, now, Well, I am
very keen to hear what you think about the new
Paul Thomas Anderson movie. It's called One Battle after Another

(58:13):
and I am hearing great things. And I missed the
screening this week, which was very disappointing, but it's the
top of my list of movies to go.

Speaker 5 (58:20):
And you know, as it should, because I'm going to
tell you more good things about this film. This is
this is my favorite film of the ESFR. This might
be one of the well, it's gonna be one of
the best films there. I think we look back, look
back on twenty five. Paul Thomas Anderson has remarkably never
won an Oscar, and you think about his films, they
will be Blood, The Master, Phantom Thread, Magnolia, Boogie Nights.

(58:47):
His run of films is incredible, but he has very
seldom made film set in the present, and I don't
think he's necessary. I don't think it's made anything that
has his kind of sense of energy and urgency in
the same way as this film does. Even though it
runs at two hours fifty which is challenging. You don't,
but no you don't, because this film I could have

(59:08):
actually done another forty five minutes in the theater with this.
So this is a film that follows. Leonardo DiCaprio is
the lead here in his first film for Pta. Their
pairing works really well. Leo's kind of in that territory
that he's been in for his last few films, kind
of being a buffoon, like he's just really good at
it and he's this hapless when the film opens, he

(59:29):
is a current revolutionary. Then there's a bit of a
time jump and he is now like a washed up
former revolutionary playing stoner dad to a teenager. But sort
of what it sets up is that a set in
kind of contemporary a miracle, although it's not really like
this is now. This is torn from the headlines. We
know who the president is. There's an emphasis on deportations

(59:51):
and militarization in this film. It's kind of weird thinking
this has been in the works for some time, right,
based on a nineteen nineteen novel by Thomas Pension or
sort of loosely adapted from it some sort of chronological changes.
But Sean Penn, in a magnificent kind of cartoonish o
fish Marcho performance, is a military dude out to track

(01:00:14):
down DiCaprio and his daughter, and I think to go
too much for them into the narrative would would give
too much of the film away. I didn't know much
about it going and I already really liked it. But
this is a big budget art house or tur film
that has the Yeah, it crackles with energy. It's so
much fun. It's really really funny, and it's a real

(01:00:35):
I think it captures a lot of the energy of
the twenty twenty five we're living. And you know, even
though I say it's been in the works for some
time and its source material is now thirty five years.

Speaker 2 (01:00:42):
Old, you mentioned two of the cast. It's a good
cast though, too, isn't it so?

Speaker 5 (01:00:46):
DiCaprio's This is Oscar, This is Oscar chat Territory. Tiana
Taylor plays his romantic partner and the Revolutionaries. She's awesome.
Benicie Old del Toro fantastic, Sean penn Rad and a
relative newcomer, Chase Infinity playing DiCaprio's teenage daughter is so
incredibly white Castle. I love the film. It's got great performances,

(01:01:08):
it's got it's an action thriller, comedy, kind of got
some satirical elements in there as well.

Speaker 2 (01:01:15):
But that's the great thing. It's not just fitting in.
You don't just fit it into the genre and everything,
and that's what's clever clever about it.

Speaker 5 (01:01:22):
And the thing I really came away thinking about this
film was like, I love the counterculture art of the seventies.
I love Thomas Pinson's writing, I love Joseph Haller, I
love Kurt Vonnegut, it's kind of got that energy, but
it's not a retro film, and I can't think of
anything that I've seen recently that feels like it's got
the kind of spirit of the seventies. But it's set

(01:01:45):
in the present day and has present day production values,
So yeah, really something special. I think it sort of sits.
It's a much more ambitious film than ari Asta's Eddington,
But like Eddington, I think it's going to be one
of the films I gets looked back to define define
our decade.

Speaker 2 (01:02:01):
Now very quickly. Bood of the Year, of course, that
is wrapping up today at five p.

Speaker 5 (01:02:06):
M exactly, And you don't need there's no electoral role
for this, so you're not you're not a drop kick
if you if you haven't gotten around to being on
an electoral role for Bird of the Year, you can
just go to Bird of the Year dot co dot NZ.
Why is this entertaining? That's the that's the question. Sorry,
it's Bird of the Year dot org, dot enz. But
why this is entertaining?

Speaker 7 (01:02:24):
Was it for?

Speaker 5 (01:02:25):
Flex? I asked the campaign managers. Each bird has its
own campaign manager running the campaign. You might have seen
like different ads coming to your social media or heard
on the airwaves or digital billboards whatever. I ask the
campaign managers which screen character their bird was most like,
and so this is a chance that it's really like,
you know, get entertainment crowd involved. But for instance, hoy hoo,

(01:02:45):
the yellow eyed penguin, they're like, oh, they're like Gandalf.
They're ancient, majestic and one of the rarest penguins in
the world, just like Wizards. The car who is? They
thought that was like Stanley Tucci playing Paul Child, much
like the tuc car who is everywhere, is doing all
right and is known by everyone. Tucci's Julian Julia character,
Paul Child comes to mind eating whatever is placed in

(01:03:07):
front of him. This is a really fun piece to
put together. And if you want have a bit of
a chuckle and see some of the candidates there is
I think there's like something like seventy in title. They
didn't all reply to this, and that's probably for the best,
but you know, so some of them, like the Poconoi,
the Southern New Zealand dotrial saying that they're like the
Umpu lumpas.

Speaker 6 (01:03:25):
Oh, I love it.

Speaker 5 (01:03:26):
Some entertaining arguments in the air, But whatever you do
whether you look at this piece and get your votes
on the Bird of the Year by five pm today.

Speaker 2 (01:03:33):
You can find that article at flicks, dot, cod and Z.
Thank you so much. Steve will catch up next week
twenty five to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:03:42):
It's the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
B just I love.

Speaker 2 (01:03:48):
This time of year. It is time for the Ignoble
Awards again. These awards are kind of like satirical awards
given to scientific studies that might make you laugh, but
then they might also make you think they might have
a point to them. Doctor Michelle Dickinson has done had
the very tough job of trying to pick three of
her favorites.

Speaker 20 (01:04:06):
So hard because I love them all, and I love
this time of year because it also brings, you know,
good scientific research sort to the forefront and you go, oh,
somebody was paid to study that. So here are my
top three favorites, and we're going to start with them.

Speaker 2 (01:04:20):
I don't know why they did this.

Speaker 20 (01:04:22):
So the question is does painting a cow with zebra
stripes mean that it is bitten by less flies? So
apparently research from the Safari says that zebras seem to
be bitten by less flies than other mammals like horses.
Is it the stripes in these Japanese researchers and I
don't know, Let's take off black cows and paint them.

(01:04:43):
So they took cows that are normally black. This actually
very prized wagou cows. And they took two of the
cows and they put white stripes on them, painted white stripes.
They took two of the cows and they painted black
stripes on them. So they just stayed black. But they
want to see if the paint made a difference.

Speaker 2 (01:04:59):
Oh yeah, good point.

Speaker 20 (01:05:00):
And then they just less thorough and just left two
cows in the field unpainted. And then they literally watched
them all day, encountered how many flies landed on each
cow and how often the cow showed some sort of
irritation behavior. So usually if a fly lands on a cow,
they'll like flick their tail or they'll shake their head.

(01:05:22):
So how many times these poor scientists just stared at
the cows and we're like, how many tail flicks? How
many flies are landing?

Speaker 7 (01:05:27):
All of this?

Speaker 2 (01:05:28):
But it is true.

Speaker 20 (01:05:30):
So the cows that were painted to look like zebras
had half the number of flies landing on them and
were much less irritated by flies then the other ones,
So it seems that it is true. Having zebra stripes
does mean that flies don't land on you, and there's
some research around they think it might be the visual
contrast affects the fli's ability to land. But this is

(01:05:51):
important for wagou beef because wago beef is very tender
and if the fly's if the cow is not flicking
all the time, it is less stressed. It is a
more chilled cow, and apparently that means the meat taste better.

Speaker 2 (01:06:02):
So there you go.

Speaker 21 (01:06:03):
The do.

Speaker 20 (01:06:08):
Garlic is if you eat garlic if you are breastfeeding,
does it change the taste of the smell of your
breast milk? Does that matter to your baby? Did the
man come up with the sun?

Speaker 7 (01:06:19):
But it's so good.

Speaker 20 (01:06:21):
So we know that garlic is stinky, it's got a
very potent odor, but we also know it's delicious. And
it's also what's called a garlacta garg which means it
it promotes or increases breast milk supplies. So if you
are breastfeeding, usually we eat oats, but some people eat garlic,
especially in India. To help promote that. So can that
odor of you eating garlic be pasted to your breast milk?

(01:06:41):
Under the baby's mind, this is cool. So they gave
breastfeeding mothers garlic powder pills some of them and some
of them had to have a sulfurous feed diet, so
no garlic, no onion, no asparagus, basically nothing stinky. And
then they had to express this breast milk and then
they gave it to adults to sniff. She's adults to
sniff this breast milk and go, does one stink more

(01:07:02):
than the other?

Speaker 22 (01:07:03):
And they were like, oh yeah.

Speaker 20 (01:07:04):
They were able to easily identify the milk of those
who had had the garlic in their diet. They're like,
oh no, this is it's definitely garlicy milk. And then
they went, we'll do the babies get so then they
measured how the babies suckled, and they found that the
garlic in the breast milk smelt the most potent two
hours after ingestion, and apparently the babies loved it more

(01:07:25):
so babies. They measured the baby milk and baby breastfeeding
for and how much milk they consumed. Those who had
smelt the garlic actually consumed more and breastfed for longer.
So apparently this is weird. Babies love garlic milk, and
we'll consume more, which is the opposite of what I know.
I know, I'm not sure what to take from them,

(01:07:46):
But don't worry about garlic in your diet. If you're breasfeeding.
Apparently your babies are gonna love it.

Speaker 2 (01:07:49):
So there you go right now. If you've been on
your way at some point speaking a foreign language, this
one might be of interest to you. SPIKEE ring a Bell.

Speaker 20 (01:07:58):
People who are bilingual believe that the more drunk they get,
the more fluent they are in their second language. You know,
most of us know that when we get drunk, we
think we're more everything about our skills actually there. So
what they did is they took fifty native German speakers,
and these speakers also spoke Dutch as their second language,
and they basically just applied them with vodka. Half of

(01:08:21):
them got vodka, half of them got water, and then
they had to talk to native Dutch speakers. And it's
true the drunk people did speak Dutch, if we according
to the Dutch speakers they were speaking to. So yeah,
and you want to get ahead, just have a few
drinks and.

Speaker 2 (01:08:36):
You're doing much better. Michelle has always really appreciated if
you want to find all the winners, you can find
that at improbable dot com and just look for winners there.
Thank you so much. We'll see you next week. Mike
vender Elsen is up next with a throwout roasted Veggi sealad,
which trusts me, is better than it sounds. It's eighteen
to eleven.

Speaker 1 (01:08:55):
The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered by
News Talks.

Speaker 2 (01:09:02):
So this week you might have heard actually Mike vender
Elson on Drive show here on his talks, they'll be
talking about the increased cost of food and vegetables and
how people are really struggling to afford them. So he
thought today he would try and give us some tips
to enable us to keep our fridge full of fruit
and vegetables. Good morning, Mike, Good morning. What a good idea.

Speaker 23 (01:09:25):
Yeah, well it's yeah, it's speaking about it. I was
thinking a lot more about after I'd spoken about it
on News Talks that be, and I just kind of
wanted to follow up with some more info because I
feel that it's nothing more important than being able to
feed our father our fruit and veggies. Yes, we grow

(01:09:49):
a lot ourselves, but I'm constantly aware. I'm constantly driving
through or past veggie shops, looking at pricings and trying
to keep an eye out for bargains.

Speaker 8 (01:10:02):
So I just sort of bring a few.

Speaker 23 (01:10:03):
Tips this week.

Speaker 2 (01:10:04):
Nice.

Speaker 7 (01:10:04):
I love it.

Speaker 3 (01:10:06):
So probably the first one and.

Speaker 23 (01:10:09):
Probably the most important, which kind of touches on what
I just said, is genery. If it's on special, it's
in season. If it's in season, it's at the prime
or it's right for the picking. So that's things like
you know your broccolis and your spinaches that are in
your cauliflower and your citrus.

Speaker 3 (01:10:26):
It's all out right now.

Speaker 23 (01:10:27):
So if it's on special, just adjust your recipe to
accommodate what that vegetable is or that fruit. More importantly
than that is, once you actually get at home, to
look after them so that they don't go into the
fridge to die salad leaves, Chuck them into a container,
cover them with a damp cloth. The fridge is the

(01:10:49):
most probably one of the driest places in your house,
so don't leave anything uncovered in your fridge. Fruit and
vegetables pop that into the bottom part of your fridge,
into the shelves at the bottom, and things like potatoes
and kumera. Make sure you keep them in a paper
bag so that they don't sweat and kick them out
of lights and they don't start to sprout again. Kind

(01:11:11):
of research and recipes that actually use leftovers. This week
I've given us given you a recipe that uses vegetables,
so it's called a throw out vegetable salad. So you know,
things like casserole, smoothies, roasting, mashing forra tatas just things.
Just have a few go to recipes so that when
your veggies are starting to get old, you know what
to go for. Shop at other places in supermarkets, go

(01:11:34):
to the Asian supermarket, to the market, go to your
fruit and veggie shops. They generally will have better pricing
and potentially fresher vegetables, and then also don't feel that
you have to buy fresh all the time. Frozen vegies
are frozen fruit are great well.

Speaker 2 (01:11:49):
And the good thing is that because there's frozen, you
aren't going to waste it like it doesn't matter if
you don't use it all or sits there. That's my
biggest thing that I look in the fridge, I go, oh,
there's half a broccoli there, and there's a carrot leftover carrot,
you know, and things like that. So that frozen, that
frozen option is a really good one, you know, making
sure it's a lack of wastage.

Speaker 23 (01:12:09):
And they're coming up with some pretty ingenious combinations now,
so you know it's not the old school sort of
diced up carrots.

Speaker 3 (01:12:16):
Beans and peas.

Speaker 2 (01:12:18):
There are you can get it all combinations.

Speaker 15 (01:12:20):
Yeah, that's that.

Speaker 8 (01:12:22):
Don't be afraid of prosing.

Speaker 2 (01:12:23):
That is brilliant advice. Thank you so much, Mike. And
we've got Mike's throw out roasted vegetable salad for you.
We're going to put that up online at Newstalk SeeDB
dot co dot in z forod slash Sunday, or you
can head to good from scratch dot co dot in z.
It is eleven to eleven.

Speaker 7 (01:12:41):
To cover.

Speaker 1 (01:12:42):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rutgotte and Wikles for
the best selection of gras used talk sed be time.

Speaker 2 (01:12:49):
To talk Wellness and Erin O'Hara is with us now.
Good morning, good morning, So this is an interesting topic
you've got for us today. We're talking a little bit
about information, but how menopause and hormone changes can impact it.

Speaker 17 (01:13:01):
Yeah, information is something that has a huge impact when
hormones changes, especially through perimenopause and menopause for women. And
I think women quite commonly, or even anyone in community
thinks menopause, they think hot flushes.

Speaker 2 (01:13:15):
But actually the thing that's actually.

Speaker 17 (01:13:17):
More common is actually inflammation that happens as hormones change,
and a lot of that comes down to the change
in the drop in all three hormones, but in particular
estrogen dropping and the esogen dropping then has a big
impact on inflammation, having less regulation and how you manage
inflammation in the body. And it's interesting how the immune

(01:13:41):
system works because inflammation is a natural process in the body.
Every time you get injured or you get an infection,
your immune system springs into action and sends out the
white blood cells to that effective area, and in particular,
the macrifages will help produce cytokinds that actually clean up
the inflammation and then the inflammation gets turned off. However,

(01:14:02):
through this time, through perimenopause and menopause, that turn on
switch doesn't happen as well because the macrifages are sensitive
to have receptives that have hormones that bind to them.
So when the hormones are not there, then inflammation stays
turned on basically, and then we've got this pro inflammatory
state that just means the body is super inflamed and

(01:14:23):
it then leads into that chronic inflammation of having pain, inflammation,
sore joints, achy all over and just can't get that
inflammation switch off through this time.

Speaker 2 (01:14:34):
Okay, what do we do about this? I know it's
a bit of a hard one's miserable.

Speaker 17 (01:14:40):
It isn't bit miserable, and actually almost forty percent of
women in the age between forty five and sixty five
do experience joint pain through this time. Some things we
can do is looking into maybe discussing with you adopted
the likes of HRT, which is actually the first line
treatment to manage inflammation for a lot of women, as
putting a little bit of synthetic hormone there can actually

(01:15:02):
help with getting that inflammation switch off. Also looking at
your life style, so anti inflammatory diets are one thing
I commonly would use in my clinic. So looking at
cutting back and processed meats and sugar and refined carbo
hydrates and putting in more that sort of Mediterranean anti
inflammatory diet with lots of bottle of oil and nuts
and seeds and fish in all the polyfemales from fruits

(01:15:26):
and vegetables. Also exercise, which when you're feeling ikey quite
often you don't want to exercise, but actually exercise can
help to counter the inflammation and regulate your immune system better.
And even just twenty minutes of exercise reduces the pro
inflammatory cided kinds and the bodies. So we actually can
get the inflammation down by actually moving your body, which

(01:15:48):
is actually counterintuitive for most women because when you're aky,
you think, oh, I don't want to do anything, but
actually moving your body helps. Should you also just be
checking that joint pain it's not something else, absolutely, yeah,
just making sure it's not an injury, that it's not
like and nex we're making sure we're getting the right
testing done. Yeah, and even with ourthriti as at movement's
really helpful. But it's making sure you gets some testing

(01:16:09):
done to see what's going on. And sometimes they can't
find anything. And that's the common thing through this time
is they get to that point at night, Hey, We
don't know what's driving the inflammation and the pain, but
something's obviously making you inflamed, and that's where putting in
the lifestyle. Also, managing stress will make you more inflamed
as it overactivates the immune system, so then you won't
get that inflammation switch off, as well as looking at

(01:16:32):
just your basics of like good sleep, high giene, and
avoiding any triggers like things like alcohol which drives up
the inflammation too.

Speaker 2 (01:16:40):
Thank you so much erin appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (01:16:42):
It is five to eleven the Sunday Session Full Show
podcast on iHeartRadio powered by News Talks at Me.

Speaker 7 (01:16:52):
Right.

Speaker 2 (01:16:52):
Originally a Kiwi Astrod My Next Guys, grew up in Australia,
always loved music, but had no idea what she wanted
to do with her life. And after doing some pretty
interesting jobs like being a funeral singer and she became
a music teacher, Astrod realized, you just love loved bringing
people together to sing. You don't have to be able
to sing or sing well. You just need to head
along to one of her shows, known as the Pub

(01:17:15):
Choir and enjoy the communal experience of singing in a
choir which she conducts it's a fantastic story. Astrod Jorgenson
is with me.

Speaker 1 (01:17:25):
Next, Welcome to the Sunday Session with Francesca Rudkin and

(01:18:00):
Wiggles for the best selection of great reads.

Speaker 7 (01:18:03):
US talk.

Speaker 2 (01:18:11):
Already coming up on the Sunday Session, Jason Pine on
the All Blacks, Meghan explores what Wellington has to offer,
and Joan has the latest from the author of The
God of Small Things. That's just before midday. Big congratulations
to Pam Vaughan, Mark Graydon, Sheridan Adams, Shannon Clifford and
Donna give it.

Speaker 7 (01:18:32):
There we go.

Speaker 2 (01:18:33):
All five of you have got a copy of Circle
of Days coming your way. Thank you so much for
all your texts.

Speaker 3 (01:18:40):
The Sunday Session.

Speaker 2 (01:18:42):
Okay, how many of you have heard of pub Choir?
My AUSSI friends just go on and on about pub
Choir For those who haven't heard about it. It's become
a bit of a global craze created by Kiwi turned
Ozzie Astrid Jorgenson. Basically, Astrad turns a theater of regular
people into a choir. With tuition from Astrad in a
PowerPoint to follow the words, the audience become a choir

(01:19:04):
singing a three part harmony to give you an idea
of how it works. Have a listen here to when
Estra entered pub Quiet into America's got talent. You pray
you are at you try.

Speaker 24 (01:19:21):
Again.

Speaker 4 (01:19:23):
Here comes the first follow your arrow. Here we are.

Speaker 2 (01:19:37):
Just fantastic. So not only is Estra the founder of
pub Quiet, she's written the book. It's called Average at
Beast and Estra joins me now from Brisbane.

Speaker 10 (01:19:45):
Good morning, good morning, so nice to chat with you.

Speaker 2 (01:19:48):
Are really good to talk with you as well. So
I'm priest with what you've achieved and loved the book.

Speaker 10 (01:19:53):
Oh, I'm so glad. Actually it hasn't come out yet.
It's two more days, so I feel like I could
melt with anxiety about people reading it. But I'm so
glad that you liked it. You're you know, you're one
of the first people I've talked to about it.

Speaker 2 (01:20:06):
Oh, I had a great laugh. And it's a really
interesting story. Can I go a wee way back to
start with? And this is what took me back. This
is probably the first thing that took me back reading
this book. At sixteen, you flew on your own to
Zambia to live in a convent to become a Catholic nun. Now,
how did that work out?

Speaker 10 (01:20:25):
I mean, well, spoiler alert, I'm not a nun. I
run a very rowdy, chaotic event now and it's not
religious at all. But I mean, I grew up, you know,
my family is Catholic. My parents took us to church
every week, and I used to get such a rush
singing the hymns and I sort of loved it how
every week they were like, you know, top hits from

(01:20:48):
the congregation that people really loved to sing, and everyone
would be vibing together and I would feel so overjoyed
every single week singing at church. And it took me
a little while to kind of extract out that the
joy I was feeling was not actually the presence of
God in my life but music. I mean not to
discount that in other people's lives, but it was difficult

(01:21:09):
for me to kind of figure out what the feeling was.
And as I got older, I realized it's actually music.
And I did discover that while in a convent.

Speaker 2 (01:21:18):
As you say, as you say, you didn't become a nun.
But I think we've all had those moments where we've
we've felt that joy and hope in the communal singing.

Speaker 10 (01:21:29):
It's the connection with others as well, because you know
you can never be a choir alone. You can never
sing in harmony by yourself, so harmonizing literal harmony with
others is something you can never do alone. And so
that was the only place that I could get that
feeling was at church. But I guess my life since
then has been a series of adventures trying to recreate

(01:21:53):
that feeling of making stuff with other people.

Speaker 2 (01:21:55):
Do you prefer to sing with others as opposed to
singing on your own.

Speaker 10 (01:22:00):
I think there's a time and the place for both.
But I certainly feel like the joy of seeing with others,
and that like really primal connection that you feel deep
somewhere in your soul when you sing with others and
when you harmonize with others is kind of unbeatable. You know,
you can choose to sing alone anytime you want, but
the harmony thing, it feels rarer and more special.

Speaker 2 (01:22:23):
This is quite an interesting fact that I learned about
you as well growing out. But as the youngest of
five kids, your house was always noisy, and you struggled
a lot with noise. You have misophonia, which means that
you're distracted by the sounds of other people doing normal
things like breathing and eating, and no, I'm gonna I'm
a member of my family has this as well. So

(01:22:44):
when I read the list of things that do your
hidden we were both rawing was laughter reading through this list.
But explain to us how it does affect you. And
you wear headphones a.

Speaker 10 (01:22:53):
Lot, I like, I'm high functioning with this thing. I mean,
I've learned to adapt, but I am, you know, let's
be honest, pissed off a lot of the time with
the sounds of other people being alive. But in the book,
I try and explain understand that everyone's allowed to breathe,
So I'm trying not to be angry at others. But
it's sort of this involuntary response, I guess because I

(01:23:15):
feel like I would describe it as I can't filter
out sounds I hear a lot, and so rather than
spending all of my days being annoyed at everybody else,
I've tried to channel this for good and not for evil,
which is sort of how I do pubquir I listen
to the room and I try and hear everyone and everything,
and in that instance, I enjoy hearing so much noise

(01:23:35):
and trying to figure out what's going on and how
to respond. But in my everyday life, I feel like
if someone's eating a really sloppy meal near me and
I'm trying to do some work, I can't think anymore
because the sound is the most prevalent thing in my environment.
You know, if I go to the movies and someone
is smacking popcorn with their mouth open, I can't understand

(01:23:57):
the plot very well. So sound for me is a
really powerful tool, and it's a really you know, it's
the most salient thing in my vironment. So yeah, I
guess I tried to do my best channeling that into
pub choir. But outside of that, I'm probably annoyed.

Speaker 2 (01:24:13):
I'm sorry, No, that's okay. You'd be fine at our house.
We've all been talked to eat without making any noise.

Speaker 7 (01:24:19):
Good.

Speaker 2 (01:24:20):
Yeah, but that is really interesting how that became actually
quite a positive for what it is that you do.

Speaker 10 (01:24:26):
Yeah, I mean, I guess I didn't have a choice
to turn off my brain, and so I decided to
try and try and wield this. It seems like a
really intense power because I feel like I can hear
everything you know, someone breathes in another room and I'm
sighing about it. So, yeah, at pub choir, two thousand
people in the room, all singing a different note is
actually a fun challenge for me because I think, oh, well,

(01:24:49):
I now know how to help. I've heard where everyone's gone,
and it's not what we discussed. So I will redirect
the crowd and see if I can get the note
that I was looking for for.

Speaker 2 (01:24:58):
Yeah, can everyone sang or learned to sing?

Speaker 10 (01:25:03):
Absolutely That's a different concept from ken everybody sing well,
I probably not. Can everybody learn to sing and win
a Grammy Award? Absolutely not? But can everyone physically sing? Yes,
if you can talk, it's the same exact mechanisms that
help you to sing, just with a bit more variation.
I think this is kind of the central point of

(01:25:25):
my work, and it comes up a lot in the book.
And you know the title average at best. Being brilliant
is not a birthright, and so a lot of people
who go to sing and aren't incredible at the first
go feel really disheartened and like they're terrible or whatever.
But I'm like, what did you expect if you've only
ever sung loudly in the shower. That's not training, that's

(01:25:48):
that's fun. But I think it's time to separate out
the idea that being brilliant and just having a nice
time are linked together. They're not the same thing. And
so I'm trying to encourage people to sing at all.
I don't care how ugly your voices, it doesn't matter
to me. The thing is it's unique to you, and

(01:26:08):
I think that's a good enough reason to use it
and to contribute something, because when you sing, it will
necessarily make the choir sound different, for better or worse.
Your voice will add something that only ever you could
have added. And so that's the reason to join. And
that's what I'm trying to communicate with people. It's okay

(01:26:29):
to be terrible and still have a nice time.

Speaker 2 (01:26:32):
Estra, Why does some people find it easier to pack
up songs? We might say, oh, they've got a good ear.

Speaker 3 (01:26:39):
Yeah, I mean, I'm not sure.

Speaker 10 (01:26:41):
I don't know what gives us our human variations, all
sorts of things nature and nurture, but for sure some
people can hear and categorize sounds in our brains. I
can do that, and I've always been able to do that,
Like listen to a song and understand how it's working,
how it fits together. But you know, I can't do

(01:27:01):
most other things. So you know, it's like, of course
there's people who are now truly talented in some way,
But I do think anyone can learn to be better.
And even though I grew up understanding music, singing in
tune and playing piano songs by ear or whatever, I
still had to learn how to hone that craft and

(01:27:22):
how to understand and process that skill set. So it's
no matter what's going on with everyone and what's going
on with you musically, you can still learn to improve.

Speaker 2 (01:27:35):
God, how did it feel, because I know that there
were quite a few jobs before you kind of landed
on this concept that it grew. How did it feel
to find something to go Actually, this is what I
want to do that conducting a choir, This is what
I meant to do.

Speaker 10 (01:27:49):
Yeah, well, I had to try almost everything else on
the way, you know, Like but in a strange way,
I don't think I could have done pub choir without
doing all of those other things. You know, I have
this huge list in the book. I was a funeral
singer for many years. I sold bed sheets, a cleaner
movie attendant, a school teacher, all sorts of things. But

(01:28:11):
each one of those jobs, it turns out, has given
me this tiny ingredient that I put into the recipe
soup of pubquoi. And it makes me realize that kind
of everything counts, not in an oppressive way, but just
it's amazing to me how my school teaching days, how
my funeral singing days, how it all counts in the

(01:28:32):
recipe of pub qui. It's this strange mix of comedy
and performance and listening and responding and teaching and all
sorts of things. But I mean, I wish I was
brilliant enough to say that that was the plan all along.

Speaker 2 (01:28:46):
I can't.

Speaker 10 (01:28:47):
This happened because of the crazy things that I and
adventures that I was going on, and an it's an
outcome of that, and I'm just so glad that it
all counted for something.

Speaker 2 (01:28:58):
What do you think the key of you know, the
key to its success has been because it's become hugely successful,
and I know that it's a concept that has sort
of constantly changing and has changed a lot from when
you first began. What do you think is that key
to it growing the way it has?

Speaker 10 (01:29:13):
I feel like this is naughty, Like it feels really
naughty to say what I'm about to say, But I'm
starting to believe that it might be successful in a
large part because of me. Like I know that that
seems outrageous to be so ambitious out loud, but I mean,
if it was easy, there would be more of it
in the world. I'm not, by any stretch, claiming to

(01:29:34):
have done it. The choir has always existed, pubs have
always existed. The method that I'm doing and teaching these
audiences is a new thing and specific to me, and
I guess at the beginning, I thought, Wow, what a
miracle that the crowd saang what I taught them. And
then after the hundredth show, I thought, oh god, it's

(01:29:55):
still happening. Lucky me. And then by now, like eight
years later, I've sort of collected all of those shows
and those experiences and it always works out, and I've
put them in sort of my backpack of comf and
I think to myself, when I go out on stage,
I'm pretty sure I can do this.

Speaker 7 (01:30:10):
Yeah.

Speaker 10 (01:30:10):
Yeah, And so I think that's the exciting thing. I
think I've found something to contribute to the world. It's
a small thing it's not much, but it's honest work,
and I yeah, I don't know. I think as well,
it's helping free a lot of people from their own
shame of singing. Look, I think everyone's been told that
their voice is a bit, a bit ugly at some point.

(01:30:33):
It's impossible to sing in tune all of the time,
and so I think everyone's got like a memory of
someone laughing as their voice cracked at school, or a
teacher telling them they were singing out of tune and
to sing to mime in the choir or something like that.
I think lots of people have internalized that singing shame
because it's so personal when your singing voice is not

(01:30:54):
good because you made it, and so people think that
there's something wrong with them. But I hope that pub
choir or any choir, any group singing experience helps people
kind of chip away at that self consciousness and realize
that it doesn't matter. It's not illegal to sing out
of tune. You're allowed to have a nice time, and
it feels really good and it's good for you. There's

(01:31:16):
lots of studies out there singing with others is very
good for your mind and your actual health and your
body and everything like that. So I think that's a
big part of it too, kind of freeing people from
that singing anxiety.

Speaker 2 (01:31:30):
And you've been able to perform some amazing artists like
the Rolling Stones.

Speaker 10 (01:31:35):
Yeah, yeah, it's been a pretty wild ride. The Rolling
Stones was pre pub choir, but I'll, you know, put
it in the mix as well. But yeah, it's been crazy.
I've I've had interactions with Neil Finn and Dave Dobbins
and Kei We greats, you know, but it's like that's
always fun. It's great to get validation from Mariah Carey
when you're singing her Christmas song, but it's sort of

(01:31:57):
not about that as well. Like for me, the miracle
of pub quarries just regular people, just idiots, you know.
I include myself in that singing together and making stuff.
I think that's the miracle, is that anyone can make art.
And I think it's important that we try and remind
ourselves of that. And I think we spend a lot
of time hero worshiping artists, which is fine, there's a

(01:32:18):
place for worshiping in other people's talent alter but I
think it's also important that we remind ourselves that we
are artists just by existing, and that's the miracle of
the show.

Speaker 12 (01:32:29):
I think.

Speaker 7 (01:32:30):
Oh, I love it.

Speaker 2 (01:32:30):
Estrad. One quick question I meant to at the beginning
that we saw you in America's Got Talent and you
got through. I don't know what happened though, How did
you progress?

Speaker 10 (01:32:40):
Yeah? I did get the yes's and was invited to
go back to the quarter finals. But I guess for
so many reasons, like there's only so much time and
energy in life, you can't do everything. Pop guy has
the craziest schedule. I'm going to be teaching thirty thousand
people across New Zealand and Australia in a couple of weeks.
I'll be in New Zealand in November. I just feel

(01:33:04):
like I can't fit it all in, and I guess
competitive creativity has never been a huge priority for me anyway.
I think I kind of got the experience that I
wanted out of America's Got Talent, which was to say
the audience is the main character of us. That was
important for me to get that across. I ended up
on a cruise ship with Richard Branson and a helicopter instead.

(01:33:25):
As as you do, Yeah, you know, it's a classic
relatable story. So I feel like, you know, I couldn't
choose everything, and you know, I'm glad how it's worked out.
But yes, I'm not progressing in America's got talent and
I'm busy otherwise, and I hope to be singing with
lots of new friends in New Zealand and November I'll
be in Auckland, Wellington and christ Church. So that's what
I choose. I choose that instead.

Speaker 2 (01:33:46):
Amazing, can't wait, Estra, thank you so much. That was
pub Choir founder Estrad Jorgenson. Her new book Average at
Beast releases this Tuesday and year November the ninth, Auckland, November,
the tenth, Wellington, the twelfth of November christ which all
my mates in Australia have been to. This I absolutely
loved it, so check it out online.

Speaker 25 (01:34:04):
It is twenty three past Sunday with Style the Sunday
Session with Francesca Rudgin and Wiggles for the best selection
of Greg Reed News Talk Savy and it.

Speaker 2 (01:34:16):
Is time for the panel and I'm joined by a
resident economist at Opie's Partners, Ed McKnight. How are you ed?

Speaker 16 (01:34:23):
Great to be here at Francisco.

Speaker 2 (01:34:25):
Love the enthusiasm and newstalks d be your host Roman
Traversers with us.

Speaker 22 (01:34:28):
Good morning, Roman, Yeah morning. I dream of being an
economist as well, but.

Speaker 7 (01:34:33):
Yeah I do.

Speaker 2 (01:34:34):
Okay, let's start with the big news yesterday. Of course,
we've been waiting for a very long time to hear
what the government stance would be on recognizing Palestinian state.
I think people were quite surprised ed that Winston Preeters
decided that this was not the right time to acknowledge
Palestinian statehood. Do you think he made the right decision?

Speaker 16 (01:34:57):
Well, what I'll just say, Francesca, because this pretty emotional
issue is that this has been going on in conflict
in the Region's been going on for thousands of years.
So we're not going to be solving ten minutes today
on the panel. But I do have some personal views
which I know a bit different from what I see
my friends posting on Instagram, And just before I share that,
I do want to say that while reasonable people can

(01:35:19):
disagree on this specific issue, there's probably a lot we
all agree on, like that it is horrific. It is
horrific what is going on in Gaza, and it was
also horrific what her mastered on October seventh, and that
Israel probably has gone too far at the moment in
this war. But also Israeli hostages should be returned and

(01:35:39):
there should be a two state solution. But in this
specific case about recognizing a Palacinian state today, I do
think it was the right call.

Speaker 2 (01:35:49):
Because the thing is Roman. We actually all want the
same thing. I think New Zealanders, as you just said,
as a nation, want nothing more than her Master hand
over the Israeli hostages and for Israel to stop razoring
Gaza and you know, creating this death and famine things
that we're seeing. And I think we all want to
get to a point where there is a ceasefire, there

(01:36:09):
is some peace, we can start working towards this two
sex sluation. As a country, we haven't changed. We want
to how where we want to go, it's just how
we get there. On whether this was just a bit
of a diplomatic nod as you recognize the state of Palestine,
or whether it actually would have had some kind of impact.

Speaker 22 (01:36:27):
Yeah, Well, just the fact that we talk about hostages
from one side says it all. We've fed from the
propaganda troph of Israel for this whole conflict. They have
plenty of hostages too. They have people in prison. They
have nine and a half thousand people in prison, some
as young as eleven and twelve, with no charges whatsoever.
And this conflict that we've you know, the self proclaimed

(01:36:48):
nation of democracy Israel. It's a weird word that they
choose to use. It's been going on for eighty years,
and it's been on the UN General Assembly agenda for
eighty years. So all the talking, all the words, the
failure to capture the magnitude of the genocide inflicted upon
the people of the Gaza Strip. They only want their
right to be rerecordedgnized as a nation as Palestinians as

(01:37:08):
they once were, and we've decided it's not the right
time for that. In the meantime, more of them die.
Our decision shows that we've got more of an issue
with Palestine's determination to have their own nation than we
do with the so called democratic leadership of Israel and
the ongoing genocide. New Zealand's trade with many countries right now.
Some of those countries have got track records at a

(01:37:30):
heenus towards humanity. We keep trading them, but yesterday we
showed the world that we effectively support a war criminal
and his actions of genocide, and that we don't care
about the displaced and the dispossessed.

Speaker 2 (01:37:44):
But what impact would it have had?

Speaker 7 (01:37:47):
You know?

Speaker 2 (01:37:49):
I think you know, it is a very emotive issue
and things like that, and there is a lot that
we all want to see happen. I think I thought
that mister Peters's speech was very pragmatic, cleverly crafted, and
quite nuanced in what he was recognizing. And I think
what he's saying is we could jump on board and
and make this claim now, but that's not actually going

(01:38:09):
to help contribute to the statehood of Palestine.

Speaker 22 (01:38:12):
Says who says who to do nothing to make no meaningful.

Speaker 2 (01:38:17):
How what impact? Wood New Zealand saying that.

Speaker 22 (01:38:19):
Well, doing nothing will guarantee that nothing to.

Speaker 2 (01:38:21):
We shouldn't sit on the fence. We should do something.

Speaker 22 (01:38:23):
Absolutely have I spoke.

Speaker 2 (01:38:24):
To geopolitical analysis analyst this morning who said, actually, maybe
we're better off. How can we actually contribute in a
meaningful way. Maybe it is going and getting involved in
ceasefi talks.

Speaker 22 (01:38:35):
I look absolutely more. The more that we can do
rather than just making a statement, it's ongoing action. But
the TACIT approval that we've shown by doing nothing is
TACIT approval for Israel. There are more than one hundred
and fifty countries who have now recognized Palestine this year
alone as an independent state with their own sovereignty. One
hundred and fifty seven. Actually, that's eighty one percent of
the UN membership. So sadly, our coalition government had once

(01:38:58):
again proven how weak and ineffective they are yesterday.

Speaker 2 (01:39:02):
Do you think it's weak and ineffective or hardly as
it's also been called ed, No.

Speaker 5 (01:39:07):
I don't think so.

Speaker 16 (01:39:08):
I think it was a very fair speech from Winston Peters.
But I also don't want you to think, Francesca that
I'm saying Roman is wrong, because he's raised a lot
of very good points and a lot of very fair points.
The way that I said is that it's improper to
reward terrorism by Hamas with political gains. There should be
recognition of a Palestinian state, just not at this point.

(01:39:31):
And one of the things that we really need to
ask ourselves is which government are we recognizing in Palestine?
Because there are two separate parts. Right We've got the
West Bank, which is ruled by the Palestinian authority. They
haven't had elections for thirty years. Then we've got the
Gaza Strip, which is ruled by Hamas. Their political leadership
is in exile. They haven't lived in the Gaza Strip

(01:39:52):
for thirteen years. There's no one Palestinian government to recognize Now,
as soon as they get one and we sought out
some borders and we figure out what happens with the
illegal Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory, I think that's the
point where you can say, yes, we're recognized a state.

Speaker 2 (01:40:07):
Because the issue is, of course, I mean Israel Israel,
should you be able to exist in a safe manner
and in the secure manner and things as well. But
they are actually doing everything they possibly can at the
moment ed to make sure that there can't be a
Palestinian state when you see the illegal building going on
in the West Bank and things like that. So what
they are trying to do, you know, is do everything

(01:40:27):
they possibly can to almost make it impossible to determine
what a Palaestinian state or you know, the existence of
one would be.

Speaker 15 (01:40:35):
That that is not an issue one hundred percent.

Speaker 16 (01:40:37):
They are doing so many very bad things like the settlements,
that the fact that the war has gone so far,
there has been so much human destruction, and Gaza and
the Palestinian citizens living there are the ones who are
bearing the brunt of this at the moment, and that's
the real tragedy.

Speaker 2 (01:40:56):
There was a simple solution to this that would have
been found decades ago.

Speaker 22 (01:40:59):
So there's not no that's right. But the world has
this guilt about not standing up to Israel. And when
we talk about, you know, we can't be seen to
be sporting terrorism. What the heck do you think we're
doing by letting Israel do what they're doing. What they're
doing has been proven to be as if it needed
to be genocide and terrorism. And yet the little despotic
briolcream man carries on with his own way, his own

(01:41:21):
people now standing up by the hundreds of thousands saying
enough it has to stop. He seems like a megalomaniac
who's completely unstoppable.

Speaker 2 (01:41:29):
Let's lighten up the panel with a little bit of
Rugby torture, because there's no easy segue into that, is there.
We had a hilarious conversation this morning. We're all sort
of sighed, you know, there was a bit of a
sigh of relief when we knew that we'd have one
piece of silverware left in the cupboard at New Zealand Rugby,
the bledders Low Cup. But my producer made the point goes,
why only two games come on? It's the Bledderslow Cup.

(01:41:52):
It's important to us we should at least should be
the best of three instead of you play one game
and someone holds it up ahead and goes, well, great, fantastic,
We've got it. Yeah, should be three, right, I mean,
I think it's all to do with what they can
fit in in the air.

Speaker 22 (01:42:04):
Yeah, totally.

Speaker 2 (01:42:04):
It's only Australia. It's not that far away.

Speaker 7 (01:42:06):
No, it's not.

Speaker 22 (01:42:06):
But you know, rugby is so much rugby on now.
We used to have seasons. We used to have a
season called winter when people dragged out their rugby boots,
and now it's the whole time. You know, what I'd
like to see, given the guys that went off with
more head and drink assessments last night, what I'd like
to see. You know, in tennis, they have those ball
boys and girls. What we need in rugby is that.
But they run on with great big pads and when
they see a really bad collision about to happen, they

(01:42:29):
run between the players and prevent it. And that's no, seriously,
because we just going to see more and more children
moving away from rugby, aren't we.

Speaker 2 (01:42:37):
I think we already have. I think over the last
decade there's been a really big, big Well that's just
an anecdotal from having my watching my children grow up
and most people playing football or you know, various basketballs
become huge. Hasn't it your thoughts? D would you like
to see three games to battle it out for a
Bledderslow couple? Does it really just not matter?

Speaker 7 (01:42:57):
Well?

Speaker 16 (01:42:57):
I don't really know much about rugby, but I was
down at a central Auckland bar last night watching the
game and at the end and it was fantastic atmosphere
and the end of it, they're holding up the cup
and I kind of think.

Speaker 15 (01:43:08):
I was that it one game.

Speaker 16 (01:43:10):
It really should be three, you know, like because then
you know, maybe maybe one team just gets lucky. Surely
you want to have a couple of rounds to make
sure that the best team takes home this enormous piece
of silverware.

Speaker 3 (01:43:21):
But I was just like, oh, it was that up?

Speaker 2 (01:43:23):
Did you like the five o'clock kickoff.

Speaker 3 (01:43:25):
Then did you loved it?

Speaker 16 (01:43:28):
Was that I could be a bit I needed to
be a bed for nine thirty because of course the
clock sprung Ford sprung forward last night, and so we
need to get the extra out of sleep so we
could be on the panel.

Speaker 23 (01:43:38):
So five more of that.

Speaker 22 (01:43:41):
Did you notice, though, did you notice, guys, how fashionable
the referee is with his bald head. I mean, there's
a guy who's going to drive Italian baldness like they
can never before. His ball been absolutely sexy and cool,
driven by an Italian referee who loves his whistle.

Speaker 2 (01:43:54):
I don't yeah, I'm I'm not sure anyone's terribly concerned
about his baldness, but I think they were a little
bit concerned about how bidanky was around the breakdown. We
will talk to Jason Pine about that next Ed McKnight
and Roman Trait. But thank you so much for joining us.
Really appreciate it.

Speaker 15 (01:44:07):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (01:44:12):
It's the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin on News Talks
a b.

Speaker 2 (01:44:18):
Jason Pine is coming up with Weekend Sport at midday.
My goodness is a lot to talk about.

Speaker 3 (01:44:22):
Hello, Hello, are you good?

Speaker 7 (01:44:24):
Yes?

Speaker 26 (01:44:24):
No, good rugby, mainly rugby.

Speaker 2 (01:44:26):
Okay, the All Blacks versus Wallabyes good tick, yeah tick.

Speaker 26 (01:44:30):
I think, I mean, there's a bit to talk about,
but I think you know, the main thing is that
they won the game. That was really what it all
came down to. After what happened in Wellington, A response
was expected, almost compulsory really and we've got it.

Speaker 2 (01:44:43):
In for two halves.

Speaker 7 (01:44:44):
What was that?

Speaker 2 (01:44:44):
Sorry, hung in there for two hands, says I was
a bit nervous going into halftime.

Speaker 26 (01:44:48):
Well that was the funny thing, wasn't it that the
ten minutes before halftime the deficit was reduced from seventeen
points to three points in Australia right back in it
at that point, and even at the end, after seventy
minutes they're within two. So you've got to give it
to the All Blacks and ability to close the game
out with some pretty big players near the end, none
bigger than camera Reyguard thought he had an it's had
a magnificent game. And you know, again there'll be the

(01:45:11):
obvious conversations around Ardie Savier captaining the side. You know,
Scott Barrett not there last night, but Artie had another
massive game. You don't necessarily need an armed band to lead.
But I just think anyone who saw that game last
night could see, you know, how well he leads this team.

Speaker 2 (01:45:26):
Took one minute forty eight seconds for my partners to
comment on Artie Savia on the field and captain see Rolsa.
There we go, and I'm sure there'll be a lot
of discussion too about the breakdowns and the whistleblowing and
the penalties around the breakdown coming up. This afternoon we
saw South Africa bet Argentina decisively sixty seven to thirty.
So where do we go now with the championship?

Speaker 26 (01:45:46):
So we go to Perth to play Australia. They come
to South Africa and Argentina meet one more time at
twick That games are Twickenham and if South Africa so
they are in are in front of the Rugby Championship,
win that game and they probably want it. But we've
got to go into Perth now and one next week.

Speaker 2 (01:46:01):
I was a bit sad to see that Kenada got
whipped by England and the Women's Rugby World Cup, but
it was probably to be expected. But look we're coming
home with the bronze. We've got a medal.

Speaker 26 (01:46:09):
Yeah, and I think England have clearly been the best
side since the last Rugby World Cup final. So in
front of an eighty thousand strong crewdits, we're going to
probably fair enough. So yeah, the black Ferns, they'll recalibrate,
some players will retire and they'll go again, I guess yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:46:22):
And some quite good news for Sakling.

Speaker 7 (01:46:23):
Yeah.

Speaker 26 (01:46:23):
Overnight Neefisher Black our first ever key we male or
female on a podium at an elite road race, a
world championship road race. So Nee Fisher Black, the Nelsonian
we celebrate here today as well.

Speaker 2 (01:46:34):
Awesome and it's all going the Ryder Cup, I believe,
And of course we've got the We've got the Panthers
versus the Broncoast tonight as well, the storm beat cernallis
we're getting towards the Nral finals.

Speaker 15 (01:46:44):
A lot going on, Pony, We'll try and cover it
all off.

Speaker 2 (01:46:47):
Must be busy in your world. Thank you so much
for your time. Jason Pine will be back at.

Speaker 1 (01:46:51):
Midday The Sunday Session Full Show podcast on iHeartRadio powered
by News Talks b.

Speaker 3 (01:47:00):
Travel with Windy Woo Tours Where the World Is Yours.

Speaker 2 (01:47:03):
Book Now in joining me is a Meghan Singleton blog
at lunch dot com from Wellington. How things going in Wellington?
The weather improved Wellington?

Speaker 24 (01:47:14):
Yes, and what I was expecting to need hats, coats,
gloves and scars and it has actually been amazing. I'm
sitting here in a wee lane off Cuba Street just
because you find some peace and quiet blue sky overhead.
The city is absolutely buzzing and all you're seeing is
groups of mothers and daughters girls' weekends. Wellington is alive

(01:47:35):
because Wow is on and it's just had its first
week and it's going to run all through next week
and finished next weekend. You know, this is its thirtieth
year and it's twentieth year in Wellington, so it's just
the mo you talk about events, say coming into the
city and what it's doing. And there's also been some
some stuff on it. The caketin for the kids like

(01:47:56):
big cars and I don't forget what it was called again,
but the city is absolutely humming. Accommodations been hard to find,
cafes are full. We're talking with Uber Dry and people
are just loving it and this is exactly what we
need going to summer. And stuff from New Zealand more
of this, please.

Speaker 3 (01:48:14):
So how do you do it?

Speaker 2 (01:48:15):
Do you get your tickets to these events and then
organize everything else around it.

Speaker 24 (01:48:20):
In the past I did, but this year because tickets
don't come on sale for Wall till about April, and
so you know, I want to help. Back to last
week where I mentioned about buying like a flexi change
fair early. You could buy it now and they're about
one hundred and twenty five dollars Auckland or Wellington flexi change.
That means you've got the possibility to change that ticket

(01:48:41):
for only the difference in the flight, not any extra cost.
I would suggest people do that if they're thinking, you
know what, we've been meaning to go to well for
years and years, we should go book your flights now,
get those flexi changes, and then accommodation. If you use
sites like booking dot com or expedia or whatever, you
can book that now and then pay for it like

(01:49:01):
three days before you arrive or cancel for no fees.
So I've been doing that, and that's what There's ten
of us out of my family who are down here
this weekend, and we were shopped yesterday and you know,
we just fitted in and when the tickets went on
sale in April. We got the Saturday night. We were
flexy enough to go with the Saturday matinee if we

(01:49:22):
wouldn't have got the Saturday night, and we were really
happy with that.

Speaker 20 (01:49:24):
It's clearly just amazing.

Speaker 2 (01:49:26):
Clearly they'd have the dates out then for next year.
So you've got a ballpark as to when you're booking
for well, you play random.

Speaker 24 (01:49:34):
Well, no, it's it's the school holidays basically of September,
so it's always Wow was always the September, September October ish,
so I would buy like within koi, so I'd look
at say this date next year. In fact, you probably
won't be able to book White twelve months out. You
might have to book it for say August, and then
shift it next month. But he is still going to

(01:49:55):
be more affordable than wait until the last minute. So girls,
think about what you're getting your moums for Christmas, get
them some Wow tickets, book a flight.

Speaker 2 (01:50:04):
And get it done.

Speaker 24 (01:50:05):
It's just so much fun down here moment.

Speaker 2 (01:50:06):
Yeah, none of that is a really good idea, and
events should really try and get their tickets on the
market as as possible because it is great. It is
a great gift idea. So that's a look. Put that
in the back of the mind because Christmas isn't far away.
I know it feels like it's far away, but it's
not really. Thank you so much, Meghan. We'll catch up
next week. It is thirteen to twelve.

Speaker 3 (01:50:25):
Books with Wiggles for the Best Election of Great Reads.

Speaker 2 (01:50:30):
Good morning, John, Hello, what have you got for us today?

Speaker 21 (01:50:32):
I've got a book by a guy I'd never heard of,
but I loved it. It's called Culpability and his name
is Bruce Holsinger, and it's fascinating and very clever. It's fiction,
but essentially it's about artificial intelligence and how it's increasingly
all around us, and it raises some really interesting and
complex questions. So it starts with a family of five

(01:50:53):
on a road trip and a self driving minivan and
the seventeen year old boy, Charlie is at the wheel
as the lookout. He doesn't have a driver's license, but
that's okay because AI's and control and his dad's working
on a laptop in the hasn't a seat next to them,
and mum and the two daughters are in the back,
and Mum is acknowledged pretty much as a genius. She
was the recipient of a MacArthur Genius Award for her

(01:51:15):
work in artificial intelligence, so she's recognized around the world.
And their vehicle slams head on into an oncoming car,
in which two people die, and the question then becomes
where does the culpability lie? So to try and recover,
they rent a house in Chesapeake Bay where they go
and they're all licking their wounds. But you realize as
you read on that each of them has got a secret,

(01:51:38):
and each of them has a reason to believe that
they were responsible for the crash. I will say I
wasn't sure that I ever wanted to read a book
about AI, but it's a big plart of this plot
in some really fascinating ways. One of the kids is
having a relationship with a chatbot. A search and rescue
is done by drones. Everybody's on their phones all the time,

(01:51:59):
and their neighbor at the bay has installed very high
security around their estate. And when the family are invited
into that world, everything changes. I could not put the star.

Speaker 2 (01:52:08):
Okay, cool contemporary themes there, Yeah, yeah, nice? Now tell
me about Mother. Mary Comes to Me by Aaron Dahty Roy.

Speaker 21 (01:52:16):
Some listeners may recall that in nineteen ninety seven she
won the Book a Prize with her book The God
of Small Things. Yes, this is her memoir which is extraordinary.
It revolves around her mother, whom she describes as both
her shelter and her storm. Her mother, Mary was a
singular force of nature. She divorced her husband when that
wasn't a thing to do. She brought up the kids

(01:52:38):
on her own, but she was volatile and difficult, emotionally abusive,
and Aaron Daherty Roy refers to her throughout this book
as missus Roy, so there's a real emotional disconnect between them.
She was, however, Missus Roy, hugely successful in her own right.
She started a school which was nationally recognized. But when
she was eighteen, Aaron Dahty left home moved to Delli

(01:52:59):
to get away from her mum. And this is the
story full of fascinating anecdotes and character portrayals about what
her life has been since and her surprise at the
overwhelming grief she felt when her mother died. And this
is one of those books that you read and you
realize that family, lives and love are terribly complex things.
And she writes about it so beautifully.

Speaker 2 (01:53:21):
That's Aaron Darty Roy the book as Mother Mary Comes
to Me. The first book we spoke about was by
Bruce Holsinger. It's called Culpability. And we must remind people
that the kids. The new Kid's Top fifty list is
out at WI Calls and I thought it was really interesting.
The research Joan shows that eighty four percent of KIWI
eight year olds enjoy reading for pleasure. Isn't that wonderful news?

Speaker 21 (01:53:43):
It is wonderful news. Yes, yeah, reading for pleasure and
being read to, which is equally important for that age group.

Speaker 2 (01:53:50):
And look this if you're a parent. I used to
read all the time my kids. They used toill love
me reading to them. But you did get to the
point where I'd buy book if I thought it was great,
because I'm like, hang on, I have to read this
as well, like there's got to be some pleasure for
the parent as well.

Speaker 21 (01:54:03):
I used to check how many words were in the
book and whether it was changed to long.

Speaker 2 (01:54:07):
Because I think if the parent find some pleasure in it,
then you're going to be happy to read it a
thousand times and things. But I do say that there
are some classical. I still love reading to my kids,
and I'm pretty sure I could recite now, of course
hearing McClary from Donaldson's Dairy, the Gruffalo's still on their
the Very Hungry Catapullart and the Little Yellow Digger that
was big when my kids were little. I'm thrilled to

(01:54:28):
see that and it still got a life. You'll be
able to find the new Kids Top fifty list online
or you can pop into a work course shop. Thanks
so much, Joan.

Speaker 1 (01:54:38):
Thank you the Sunday Session Full Show podcast on my
Heart Radio powered by News Talks.

Speaker 7 (01:54:44):
I'd be.

Speaker 2 (01:54:47):
Thank you very much for your company this morning. I
hope you've got those clocks sorted. Of course, I like
saving as kick down.

Speaker 7 (01:54:53):
We am, I all.

Speaker 2 (01:54:54):
We're a bit little bit weary, a little earlier this
evening than normal. Next week on the show, Richard Osmond
joins me. He is, of course the author of Thursday
Murder Club books. He's got a new book out it's
called The Impossible Fortres. We are going to find out
what he thinks about the Netflix film, which I'm sure
a lot of you have already watched. I thought they've
got the casting right, didn't they they really mailed the casting,

(01:55:14):
thought they could have had a little bit more fun
with the stories. But we'll find out whether he cares
or not, what he thought of it, and what he's
also got coming up next. I believe there is a
play coming. Maybe possibly we will find out. Thinking to
Carrie for producing the show. Jason Pine is up next
a lot to cover off in Sport, and I know

(01:55:35):
he's going to be very keen to hear your thoughts
on the All Blacks performance last night, and of course
the Blackburns as well. I'm sure there'll be a lot
of opportunity for you to have. You'll say, he's keen
to hear from you.

Speaker 7 (01:55:47):
Here.

Speaker 2 (01:55:47):
We're going to finish the show with a little bit
of music. Music by Olivia Denis was released on Friday.
This is So Easy to Fall in Love.

Speaker 7 (01:55:56):
Have a great week.

Speaker 13 (01:55:57):
I'll see you next Sundays.

Speaker 18 (01:56:23):
To Hello, can give me a cald phone and fast
on the perfect It's Saturday night, we say love money.

Speaker 10 (01:56:40):
Follow the.

Speaker 18 (01:56:43):
It's So Easy.

Speaker 3 (01:56:50):
For more from the Sunday session with Francesca Rudkin.

Speaker 1 (01:56:53):
Listen live to News Talks it Be from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio,

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