November 8, 2025 • 14 mins
2025 marks 30 years since Kiwi dance company Black Grace was formed, and this anniversary will be marked with some new performances.
Later this month, the company will stage Paul Taylor's Esplanade, in a double bill with If Ever There Was A Time - an original work by founder Neil Ieremia.
Ieremia says when he first started out, there weren't a lot of dance opportunities for Māori men, and he aimed to change that.
"I remember when we put on our first show and it actually sold out - it was at the Kenneth Maidment Theatre at the university there. We put on our first show and it sold out before we actually opened, which was quite incredible."
The Black Grace double bill tour starts in Auckland on November 21 and continues in Christchurch on November 25 and 26, with tickets available here.
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Speaker 1 (00:06):
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News talks'b.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This year marks thirty years since a twenty four year
old Neil Eramia founded dance company Black Grace, a move
that is credited with changing dance in this country. To
mark the anniversary later this month, Black Grace a touring
a double bill the world premiere of Neil's own if Ever,
there was a time alongside Esplanade from legendary choreographer Paul
Taylor to talk us through, oh, just the last thirty years.
(00:36):
Black Grace founder Neil Eramia joins me. Now, good morning, Neil.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Good morning, Francesca.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Thirty years are you taking? Can I get you to
take yourself back in time? Maybe? What was it like
to start Black Grace in nineteen ninety five?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Oh god, yeah, there's a long time ago. For sure,
it was quite unusual.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
I mean, obviously the dance wasn't a big thing, particularly
for males in this country back then, and in particular.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
For Mary and Pacific men. It was.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
It wasn't something we kind of did back then, and
there weren't a lot of us around.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Really.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
There were some great lumeriy, some earlier dances, but you know,
it wasn't the kind of thing that you did, so
deciding to start a dance company, everyone thought I was
absolutely mad.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
What did exist back then? There must have been the
Douglas Right Dance Company. Maybe was Limbs around and yeah, certainly.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Yeah, so contemporary dance and alter at all New Zealand
is still very very young compared to Dance Overseas, and
Limbs Dance Company had been going for a while but
had just closed I think around nineteen eighty nine, nineteen
eighty eight eighty nine, and then the Douglas Right Dance
Company started.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
And Douglas had worked for Paul Taylor in New York,
whose work were presenting at the end of the year.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
So it's kind of a nice little a piece through,
a legacy piece through and I worked for Douglas for
a large part of my freelancing career, but that was
sort of it.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
There was Michael.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Palment tour and Seanan mccullor was also around with her company.
Mary Jane O'Reilly had just choreographed the Commonwealth Games opening
to you know, huge critical acclaim, but still there weren't
a lot of men around, and so I remember when
we put on our first show and had it actually
(02:33):
sold out.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
It was at the Kenneth Maidman.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Theater and at the University there, and we put on
our first show and it sold out before we actually opened.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Which was quite incredible.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Afterwards, while I was talking to some people, and a
couple of the women there thought they were coming to
see a bunch of strippers.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Not quite, not quite.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I mean, you know, there were sort of ten, these
ten guys who kind of looked kind of sort of
athletic and things, and I suppose they thought they were
coming to see that.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
A great story. So setting it up, was it a
matter of finding a place for Pacific and Mari dancers
or men or what we want.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Look, I you know, I have great respect and a
great love for the art form and for the you know,
the choreographers and practitioners here. But when I started, I
couldn't see anyone telling stories about people like me from
the neighborhoods I grew up in, Like I grew up
in Kennis Creek and Portidor, and I wasn't really seeing
(03:41):
that portrayed in the arts generally.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
And I didn't see a lot of.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
People that looked like me involved in and especially in dance.
But so I just wanted to tell some stories. Really,
you know, I like a good sort of gas bag
and I like to sort of have a gin wag
with a few people. But I wanted to do it
in a really physical way and in an artistic way,
and I just thought I would. So Black Grace is
(04:08):
kind of that. It's the vehicle that helped us tell
a few stories.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You were young when you set it up twenty four?
Did you know? And I mean that's the nicest possible way,
but did you know what you were doing? Did you
know what you were in for?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
No?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
In short, No, I was a real dreamer, I think,
you know.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
And I remember at dance school I made a list
of things that I wanted to achieve.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
By the time I turned thirty.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
And I was at dance school, I'd left my home
in Cannis Creek and Pottidor to come to Auckland to
start Black Grace, well, to go to dance school actually,
and then part way through dance school, I thought I'd
better I better get onto it. You see, I'd been
working in a bank for about two years, learning how
to massage my cuticles and tiwinds a knots and things
like that. So my parents were heartbroken when I told
(05:02):
them I was leaving that job to pursue a career
and dance. So I had no idea what I was doing,
But you know, I knew that I wanted to set
something up that would become a legacy company. And I
made that list that dance school, and I put on
it by the time.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I turned thirty. I want to own my own dance company.
I want to own a PMW and I want to
and I want my home and I want to own
a home.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
And I got there. So the BMW was trash, but
everything else was great.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I think I'm right in saying that you're actually visiting
your parents this weekend. And you know, I know that
you just said they were disappointed when you left the bank,
but I think your mum wanted you to be a preacher.
They must be pretty impressed with the career that you've
made for yourself though in dancing.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Look, we're a kind of family that don't really kind
of pat each other on the backs too much, so
I'm sure they're proud. But you know, I think my
mum's still disappointed that I'm I didn't become a man.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Of the cloth, so to speak. But look, you know,
I remember telling her I was going to day school.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Was she just cried, you know, and Dad he just
did the classical tut tut tut, you know it, and
kind of didn't talk to me for I don't know months, But.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
But yeah, they've been there all the way through.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
And one important thing when I did start Black Grace
in nineteen ninety five, and then I opened a studio
and I needed to apply for a business loan from
the Pacific Business Trust because I wanted to open the
studio because I figured that, you know, people needed to
see a physical thing to believe.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
That it that it was real.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
So and we didn't have any We didn't have a
home either. It was a crazy thing to do. And
it was right in Federal Street, just behind Saint Matt's
Church where I think Auckland Yoga is an now. But
I took that on and I applied for a loan
and they needed some collateral for that loan and I
had nothing, so I asked my parents if they'd put
their house up for me, and they did.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So I think that says it all, really, doesn't it.
And look I think they will very much recognize and
be very proud of what you've achieved for the arts
and New Zealand Dance and Men and Dance and Pacifica
and Dance I.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Have.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
How have you made it work? Because the arts isn't
an easy place and surviving for thirty years is pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah. Look, I have to give credit to my mum here.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
She's always been the great kind of finance minister of
our family, and she's managed to make a small amount
of money go a long way.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Particularly when we're growing up. And I guess some of
that's rubbed off on me.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
And I'm very very practical about things, So I have
this kind of crazy.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
This thing from both of my parents.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
So on my dad's side, he's very artistic and very creative,
and my mum's very practical and and so I.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Have both of those things.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
And for an artist, I guess that's real because you're
always arguing with yourself, you know, particularly you know, I'm.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
The artistic director and chief executive Black.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Grace, and those are real jobs. That's not just some
sort of fancy title that I think people think it's
nice to have.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I have. You know, I still write all the budgets
for Black Grace.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
I used to do all of the reporting for a
very very long time and it's only recently that I've
managed to sort of pass those on to other people.
But at the same time I have to be creative
and get in the studio. So finding that balance has
been a long journey, but it's been a worthwhile one
and because of that, I think we've been able to
steer the company in the right direction with the help
(08:58):
of a wonderful, you know board. Over the years, We've
had some amazing people on it, the likes of Hayden
Wong from Bell Gully, Julian Knight Beneath many you know.
So we've had some great some great governance over the
years and that's helped me out.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
A lot and taught me a huge amount.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
But basically, we just go overseas, make more money over
there in sweat of six weeks than we do here
in an entire year, and then we come home and
lose it all.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Well, but I was going to say, a lot of
people probably don't realize, you know, you're so well established
here in New Zealand, but very well established in the
global market as well.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yeah, and that's really necessary.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
I mean, we you know, we just we have to export,
and basically that's how we stay alive. We have a
great sustaining partner in Creative New Zealand and others, but
it's our work that we do over in particularly North America.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
We used to do it to.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Europe every other year when we weren't in the States.
But now the world's starting to open up again, and
you know, this year already we've been to Japan. We're
about to head off to Canada after the closing night
in christ Church, and then early next year we're back
up to Hawaii and then off to Italy. So it
(10:15):
that enables us to run programs here and to keep
prices relatively affordable for for.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
The company's uh, you know, reputation and tenure. But yeah,
we've got good people around, you know, That's all I
can say. It's not just me.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
It's a whole bunch of really fantastic, clever folk that
pitching and and help make it and believe in this idea.
You know, we're in the we're in the business of
building ladders, we like to say, and you know, so
that people we can leave a whole bunch of ladders
behind so people can get up to.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
But yeah, I'm taking a lot from this today. I'm
gonna I'm gonna be calling myself a finance minister at
home from now on. I love this idea of ladders.
I think this is this is one for the dreamers.
This interview really quickly. What is the standard of dance
like in New Zealand at the moment?
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Do you think, Look, you know, to be fair, we've
had our challenges. I think with training just generally right
across the board in every industry.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I think if anyone you.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Talk to would say that that, you know, it's probably
not as as good as it should be, and for
various reasons. I always I kind of think, you know,
it's got to do with the idea of having to
pay for your education, your tertiary education. When I was
at you know, it used to be used to pass
(11:43):
university entrants to get into university, and then it was
kind of a based on merits. But these days I
think it's you've got enough money to pay for your
fees or whatever and you can sort of get there.
But look, it's challenging, and that's what i'd say. But
you know, there's always hope, and I'm always hopeful that
we can we can turn that around, and I'm sure
we will tell.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Me a little bit about this upcoming double bill form
and what people can expect.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Oh, well, it's going to be incredible.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Paul Taylor used to dance with Martha Graham, the late
Paul Taylor. It's a New York based company seventy one
years old, and the work that we've licensed from them
is one of the most iconic pieces of modern dance globally.
It's called Esplanade, and it was one of my favorite
works just watching as a young.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Choreographer, a spine choreographer.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
And Douglas right, who I mentioned earlier, worked for Paul
Taylor when he was in New York before going on
to start his own company, and then of course I
worked for Port for Douglas. And so we're putting we've
licensed Esplanade, and that's one of those crazy old modern
dance pieces with the leotards and the kind of the
(12:54):
genes and things. But I think, you know, dance dance
lovers will absolutely love it, and I just think it's
wonderful to bring that type of work here because it
hasn't been seen here well, it hasn't been performed by
New Zealand at all, and he brought his own company
here in nineteen ninety nine, I believe, and that was
the last time, so you know, it'll be a great
(13:15):
piece of work to see. And then I've made my
little kind of piece which I started off trying to
be kind of happy and wanting to make something beautiful
and I kind of just ended up.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Making a whole bunch of short stories.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
I mean, I don't you never know, right, You just
got to puzzle it out there and see how to
see what happens.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
But I'm really I'm really happy with it.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
It's it's beautifully musical, and it's here I am talking
about my own work like it's great.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
It's how terrible on a Sunday night.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Well if you don't, if you don't, I will kneel.
So there we go. Oh look, it's been such a
delight to talk to you this morning. Thank you so
much for your time. That was Black Grace founder Neil
Ameya and the Black Grace Double bill Tour. It starts
in Auckland on November the twenty. First. Tickets are on
sale now. For more information, head to Blackgrace dot co
dot nz.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
For more from the Sundays Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Sunday Session podcast with Francesca Rudkin
from News talks'b.
Speaker 2 (00:13):
This year marks thirty years since a twenty four year
old Neil Eramia founded dance company Black Grace, a move
that is credited with changing dance in this country. To
mark the anniversary later this month, Black Grace a touring
a double bill the world premiere of Neil's own if Ever,
there was a time alongside Esplanade from legendary choreographer Paul
Taylor to talk us through, oh, just the last thirty years.
(00:36):
Black Grace founder Neil Eramia joins me. Now, good morning, Neil.
Speaker 3 (00:40):
Good morning, Francesca.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Thirty years are you taking? Can I get you to
take yourself back in time? Maybe? What was it like
to start Black Grace in nineteen ninety five?
Speaker 3 (00:51):
Oh god, yeah, there's a long time ago. For sure,
it was quite unusual.
Speaker 4 (00:57):
I mean, obviously the dance wasn't a big thing, particularly
for males in this country back then, and in particular.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
For Mary and Pacific men. It was.
Speaker 4 (01:06):
It wasn't something we kind of did back then, and
there weren't a lot of us around.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Really.
Speaker 4 (01:11):
There were some great lumeriy, some earlier dances, but you know,
it wasn't the kind of thing that you did, so
deciding to start a dance company, everyone thought I was
absolutely mad.
Speaker 2 (01:23):
What did exist back then? There must have been the
Douglas Right Dance Company. Maybe was Limbs around and yeah, certainly.
Speaker 4 (01:33):
Yeah, so contemporary dance and alter at all New Zealand
is still very very young compared to Dance Overseas, and
Limbs Dance Company had been going for a while but
had just closed I think around nineteen eighty nine, nineteen
eighty eight eighty nine, and then the Douglas Right Dance
Company started.
Speaker 3 (01:52):
And Douglas had worked for Paul Taylor in New York,
whose work were presenting at the end of the year.
Speaker 4 (01:59):
So it's kind of a nice little a piece through,
a legacy piece through and I worked for Douglas for
a large part of my freelancing career, but that was
sort of it.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
There was Michael.
Speaker 4 (02:11):
Palment tour and Seanan mccullor was also around with her company.
Mary Jane O'Reilly had just choreographed the Commonwealth Games opening
to you know, huge critical acclaim, but still there weren't
a lot of men around, and so I remember when
we put on our first show and had it actually
(02:33):
sold out.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
It was at the Kenneth Maidman.
Speaker 4 (02:35):
Theater and at the University there, and we put on
our first show and it sold out before we actually opened.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Which was quite incredible.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
Afterwards, while I was talking to some people, and a
couple of the women there thought they were coming to
see a bunch of strippers.
Speaker 1 (02:54):
Not quite, not quite.
Speaker 4 (02:56):
I mean, you know, there were sort of ten, these
ten guys who kind of looked kind of sort of
athletic and things, and I suppose they thought they were
coming to see that.
Speaker 2 (03:07):
A great story. So setting it up, was it a
matter of finding a place for Pacific and Mari dancers
or men or what we want.
Speaker 4 (03:21):
Look, I you know, I have great respect and a
great love for the art form and for the you know,
the choreographers and practitioners here. But when I started, I
couldn't see anyone telling stories about people like me from
the neighborhoods I grew up in, Like I grew up
in Kennis Creek and Portidor, and I wasn't really seeing
(03:41):
that portrayed in the arts generally.
Speaker 3 (03:45):
And I didn't see a lot of.
Speaker 4 (03:46):
People that looked like me involved in and especially in dance.
But so I just wanted to tell some stories. Really,
you know, I like a good sort of gas bag
and I like to sort of have a gin wag
with a few people. But I wanted to do it
in a really physical way and in an artistic way,
and I just thought I would. So Black Grace is
(04:08):
kind of that. It's the vehicle that helped us tell
a few stories.
Speaker 2 (04:13):
You were young when you set it up twenty four?
Did you know? And I mean that's the nicest possible way,
but did you know what you were doing? Did you
know what you were in for?
Speaker 1 (04:24):
No?
Speaker 3 (04:25):
In short, No, I was a real dreamer, I think,
you know.
Speaker 4 (04:30):
And I remember at dance school I made a list
of things that I wanted to achieve.
Speaker 3 (04:38):
By the time I turned thirty.
Speaker 4 (04:40):
And I was at dance school, I'd left my home
in Cannis Creek and Pottidor to come to Auckland to
start Black Grace, well, to go to dance school actually,
and then part way through dance school, I thought I'd
better I better get onto it. You see, I'd been
working in a bank for about two years, learning how
to massage my cuticles and tiwinds a knots and things
like that. So my parents were heartbroken when I told
(05:02):
them I was leaving that job to pursue a career
and dance. So I had no idea what I was doing,
But you know, I knew that I wanted to set
something up that would become a legacy company. And I
made that list that dance school, and I put on
it by the time.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
I turned thirty. I want to own my own dance company.
I want to own a PMW and I want to
and I want my home and I want to own
a home.
Speaker 4 (05:30):
And I got there. So the BMW was trash, but
everything else was great.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
I think I'm right in saying that you're actually visiting
your parents this weekend. And you know, I know that
you just said they were disappointed when you left the bank,
but I think your mum wanted you to be a preacher.
They must be pretty impressed with the career that you've
made for yourself though in dancing.
Speaker 3 (05:54):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (05:55):
Look, we're a kind of family that don't really kind
of pat each other on the backs too much, so
I'm sure they're proud. But you know, I think my
mum's still disappointed that I'm I didn't become a man.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Of the cloth, so to speak. But look, you know,
I remember telling her I was going to day school.
Speaker 4 (06:19):
Was she just cried, you know, and Dad he just
did the classical tut tut tut, you know it, and
kind of didn't talk to me for I don't know months, But.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
But yeah, they've been there all the way through.
Speaker 4 (06:33):
And one important thing when I did start Black Grace
in nineteen ninety five, and then I opened a studio
and I needed to apply for a business loan from
the Pacific Business Trust because I wanted to open the
studio because I figured that, you know, people needed to
see a physical thing to believe.
Speaker 3 (06:54):
That it that it was real.
Speaker 4 (06:56):
So and we didn't have any We didn't have a
home either. It was a crazy thing to do. And
it was right in Federal Street, just behind Saint Matt's
Church where I think Auckland Yoga is an now. But
I took that on and I applied for a loan
and they needed some collateral for that loan and I
had nothing, so I asked my parents if they'd put
their house up for me, and they did.
Speaker 2 (07:18):
So I think that says it all, really, doesn't it.
And look I think they will very much recognize and
be very proud of what you've achieved for the arts
and New Zealand Dance and Men and Dance and Pacifica
and Dance I.
Speaker 3 (07:32):
Have.
Speaker 2 (07:34):
How have you made it work? Because the arts isn't
an easy place and surviving for thirty years is pretty impressive.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
Yeah. Look, I have to give credit to my mum here.
Speaker 4 (07:46):
She's always been the great kind of finance minister of
our family, and she's managed to make a small amount
of money go a long way.
Speaker 3 (07:54):
Particularly when we're growing up. And I guess some of
that's rubbed off on me.
Speaker 4 (07:57):
And I'm very very practical about things, So I have
this kind of crazy.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
This thing from both of my parents.
Speaker 4 (08:07):
So on my dad's side, he's very artistic and very creative,
and my mum's very practical and and so I.
Speaker 3 (08:15):
Have both of those things.
Speaker 4 (08:16):
And for an artist, I guess that's real because you're
always arguing with yourself, you know, particularly you know, I'm.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
The artistic director and chief executive Black.
Speaker 4 (08:25):
Grace, and those are real jobs. That's not just some
sort of fancy title that I think people think it's
nice to have.
Speaker 3 (08:33):
I have. You know, I still write all the budgets
for Black Grace.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
I used to do all of the reporting for a
very very long time and it's only recently that I've
managed to sort of pass those on to other people.
But at the same time I have to be creative
and get in the studio. So finding that balance has
been a long journey, but it's been a worthwhile one
and because of that, I think we've been able to
steer the company in the right direction with the help
(08:58):
of a wonderful, you know board. Over the years, We've
had some amazing people on it, the likes of Hayden
Wong from Bell Gully, Julian Knight Beneath many you know.
So we've had some great some great governance over the
years and that's helped me out.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
A lot and taught me a huge amount.
Speaker 4 (09:18):
But basically, we just go overseas, make more money over
there in sweat of six weeks than we do here
in an entire year, and then we come home and
lose it all.
Speaker 2 (09:29):
Well, but I was going to say, a lot of
people probably don't realize, you know, you're so well established
here in New Zealand, but very well established in the
global market as well.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
Yeah, and that's really necessary.
Speaker 4 (09:40):
I mean, we you know, we just we have to export,
and basically that's how we stay alive. We have a
great sustaining partner in Creative New Zealand and others, but
it's our work that we do over in particularly North America.
Speaker 3 (09:54):
We used to do it to.
Speaker 4 (09:55):
Europe every other year when we weren't in the States.
But now the world's starting to open up again, and
you know, this year already we've been to Japan. We're
about to head off to Canada after the closing night
in christ Church, and then early next year we're back
up to Hawaii and then off to Italy. So it
(10:15):
that enables us to run programs here and to keep
prices relatively affordable for for.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
The company's uh, you know, reputation and tenure. But yeah,
we've got good people around, you know, That's all I
can say. It's not just me.
Speaker 4 (10:33):
It's a whole bunch of really fantastic, clever folk that
pitching and and help make it and believe in this idea.
You know, we're in the we're in the business of
building ladders, we like to say, and you know, so
that people we can leave a whole bunch of ladders
behind so people can get up to.
Speaker 2 (10:54):
But yeah, I'm taking a lot from this today. I'm
gonna I'm gonna be calling myself a finance minister at
home from now on. I love this idea of ladders.
I think this is this is one for the dreamers.
This interview really quickly. What is the standard of dance
like in New Zealand at the moment?
Speaker 4 (11:09):
Do you think, Look, you know, to be fair, we've
had our challenges. I think with training just generally right
across the board in every industry.
Speaker 3 (11:20):
I think if anyone you.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
Talk to would say that that, you know, it's probably
not as as good as it should be, and for
various reasons. I always I kind of think, you know,
it's got to do with the idea of having to
pay for your education, your tertiary education. When I was
at you know, it used to be used to pass
(11:43):
university entrants to get into university, and then it was
kind of a based on merits. But these days I
think it's you've got enough money to pay for your
fees or whatever and you can sort of get there.
But look, it's challenging, and that's what i'd say. But
you know, there's always hope, and I'm always hopeful that
we can we can turn that around, and I'm sure
we will tell.
Speaker 2 (12:02):
Me a little bit about this upcoming double bill form
and what people can expect.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Oh, well, it's going to be incredible.
Speaker 4 (12:10):
Paul Taylor used to dance with Martha Graham, the late
Paul Taylor. It's a New York based company seventy one
years old, and the work that we've licensed from them
is one of the most iconic pieces of modern dance globally.
It's called Esplanade, and it was one of my favorite
works just watching as a young.
Speaker 3 (12:31):
Choreographer, a spine choreographer.
Speaker 4 (12:33):
And Douglas right, who I mentioned earlier, worked for Paul
Taylor when he was in New York before going on
to start his own company, and then of course I
worked for Port for Douglas. And so we're putting we've
licensed Esplanade, and that's one of those crazy old modern
dance pieces with the leotards and the kind of the
(12:54):
genes and things. But I think, you know, dance dance
lovers will absolutely love it, and I just think it's
wonderful to bring that type of work here because it
hasn't been seen here well, it hasn't been performed by
New Zealand at all, and he brought his own company
here in nineteen ninety nine, I believe, and that was
the last time, so you know, it'll be a great
(13:15):
piece of work to see. And then I've made my
little kind of piece which I started off trying to
be kind of happy and wanting to make something beautiful
and I kind of just ended up.
Speaker 3 (13:27):
Making a whole bunch of short stories.
Speaker 4 (13:29):
I mean, I don't you never know, right, You just
got to puzzle it out there and see how to
see what happens.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
But I'm really I'm really happy with it.
Speaker 4 (13:36):
It's it's beautifully musical, and it's here I am talking
about my own work like it's great.
Speaker 3 (13:42):
It's how terrible on a Sunday night.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
Well if you don't, if you don't, I will kneel.
So there we go. Oh look, it's been such a
delight to talk to you this morning. Thank you so
much for your time. That was Black Grace founder Neil
Ameya and the Black Grace Double bill Tour. It starts
in Auckland on November the twenty. First. Tickets are on
sale now. For more information, head to Blackgrace dot co
dot nz.
Speaker 1 (14:05):
For more from the Sundays Session with Francesca Rudkin, listen
live to News Talks at B from nine am Sunday,
or follow the podcast on iHeartRadio
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