September 13, 2025 • 35 mins
Students are dropping out of high school at the highest rate since 2007.
It's become fairly accepted in recent years that you don't need a diploma or a degree to be successful in life, but many parents will still be concerned if their child comes to them wanting to leave early.
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk
s B.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yes and welcome back, Welcome in. This is the Weekend Collective.
I'm Tim Beverage and this is the Parents Squad and
we're going to have a chat about this. There's been
a headline around the number of kids who are dropping
out of school is at its highest rates since two
thousand and seven. So it's becoming a fairly accept these
days that you maybe you don't need a diploma or
(01:06):
a degree to be successful in life, but many parents
will still be concerned if their child comes to them
wanting to leave school early. So how do you have
those conversations with your kids? What are the conversations look like?
What sort of ground rules are they? Would you be?
I mean, is finishing school to you know, your eighteenth
birthday or you know, you know form seven? What is it?
(01:28):
Year thirteen? Is that more? Is that more common? Is
it more necessary? Or do you do you think? Actually,
you know what, it doesn't really matter because I think
actually I don't want to speak out of turn here,
but I think that our Breakfast host Mike Costking, I
(01:48):
think I seem to remember that he didn't stick around
at school for any longer than was legally required, and
he got out, and I think he's done all right.
People might say that Mike's done al right. And also
he probably comes under that heading of what's called an
autodidactic learner, so he's a self start. It comes to
learning about things and reading and curiosity and things. So yeah,
(02:09):
how what is your approach as a parent if your children,
or if your child did ask you, or if they
do ask you, that they want to leave school early,
what would the ground rules be? Is it necessary for
your kids to go the full whatever it is year
thirteen years at school or is it actually okay to
(02:31):
drop out? So anyway, joining us And I actually don't
know if he dropped it, if he did the full
thirteen years, or if he left in standard six Back
in the day, John Karen Kid, Hey, hey, you going.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Good a tim?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
I'm well think you know, I lingered around until they
picked me out.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's an interesting one, though, wasn't it, Because I mean,
who knows what success looks like. But I mean I'd
be shocked if my kids wanted to pull out of
school earlier, because I'd want them to get that ring
or squeeze the maximum out of the free education that's
available at a good school.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
You'd hope so. But school doesn't suit everyone, and leaving
early isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it often is.
And so it's good to work out why your children,
why your kids want to drop out, and is it
because they're being bullied and having a tough time and
are just miserable at school?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You know, in which case you would not want them
to drop out, because that would not be a good
reason to me. That's a reason to address the bullying,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Oh, that's right, Or even give them the opportunity of
a fresh start at a new school, which is not
a bad solution. Sometimes it gives your chance to reinvent yourself.
But perhaps talk about bullying some other time. But you know,
kids drop out for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it's
because of some mental health problem. They're depressed, Maybe they've
(03:52):
been messing around of drugs and its scrambled their brains
a bit and they've just lost their their spark. And
you know, sometimes if it's a sudden decline in academic interest,
they've been fine right through and then all of a
sudden they hate school. They hate the teachers, they can't
get anything in you'd have to look at, hey, what's
(04:14):
going on here? And so you know, it's definitely worth
asking a few extra questions, maybe of the child, but
also of the teachers and staff, because they probably got
some insights and perhaps some solutions and options for your kids.
It could be because all their friends are leaving. I mean,
I remember at school.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
There's another bad reason. Yeah, if all.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Your mates are leaving, I want to leave, you know.
And because it's a very powerful influence on young people
what your friends are doing, So you've got to then
start thinking, is this a problem that could be overcome
and bypassed. Maybe they've flunked out majorly in one set
of exams and they're so depressed about it that and
(05:01):
by the way, this will be something that you'll see
more and more if they go and DITCHENC when they
switch to NCEEA. You know, there is that sense of hey,
I may not be succeeding in this, but I can
succeed in that. And if I don't get you know,
I can have another crack at it in this rather
than the high stakes all or nothing exams that people
(05:22):
like myself we loved because I could cruise and then
cram and pass, which isn't any measure of how well
you're doing at school really, and so we may.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It's just kind of a humble brag, isn't it. I mean,
it was something.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
It was something I was proud of at the time
and now ashamed of because I spent I wasted my
time at school when I could have been getting an education.
You must I was the only thing I was good
at at school was passing. And that's not the same
as getting an education.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Ah No, but maybe more rubbed off in you than
you're giving credit for, because you know, I mean, as
time goes past, you remember that the major sort of
headlines and for you, the headline was cramming at the end.
But surely I don't know how much. I mean, did
you before you started cramming? Did you know nothing and
(06:13):
you just went, you know, let's get into it, because
it must have rubbed off on you. Surely, I know.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
But it's not quite the same as having the opportunity
of learning, checking, relearning and everything like this.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
The best.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
You know, I used to think it was good that
you know, sees for degrees, squeeze parts, you know, do
a cram, get past, and then dump it from your
head as quick as you can. And so look, honestly,
I regret the way I tackled it, and just think
that there's better ways for kids to learn, perhaps get
I don't, by the way, I don't think myself. All
(06:49):
my costkings are particularly good case studies on this because we're.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Probably rather apparently he left at sixteen, Yeah, and that's
I guess that is actually a bit of the catch
is that there are always people who will have go
on to have exceptional lives, regardless of what benefits or
obstacles they've had put in their way.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Half your listers are going to have stories about people
that left early and did really, really well. But there
is a but there is a thing, and I wanted
to get to that. If you if you leave, you
need some path after that. If you if you leave
because your mate said he's got a job at a
at a surf at a surf shop and you can
work there for a couple of hours a week and
things like that, yeah, that's going to burn out pretty
(07:29):
quick and you're going to be making just making a
dent in the sofa for at home playing Xbox and
that's that's no way for a young person to get on.
But if they're leaving and going on to a course,
if they're leaving and going on to apprenticeship, if you
can get them or some other path to a career
or or something where they can get a sense of progress,
you know, and or maybe if you start talking about
(07:53):
it in terms of a break from education, maybe they
go off and do Camp America. Maybe they go off
and stay with their uncle in Switzerland. Maybe they you know,
and go and do a sound mixing course at some
polydaic or something. But with the idea that maybe they'll
come back and finish off some qualifications or move on
later on. It's not a dumb idea to sometimes cast
(08:16):
about because honestly, for some kids it's marking time at
school and they might be spending their time doing something better.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, because I think we could probably agree. I mean,
if you're if a child or I don't like saying child,
it makes them sound like that tiny a young person
wants to leave some little fellah. But if a young
person wants to leave school simply becaurse, it's all a
bit hard and they just want to have a year
off and sit on the couch and do not much.
(08:46):
I would say that it would be reasonably irresponsible for
a parent to agree.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
With that, and I'd probably be agreeing with you there. Yeah,
And that's why I'm saying it's good to have a
path out of here. And the thing is, if it's
as a result of pain, if it's a result of distress,
you know they're not you know they're really they've been
upset at school, they've been bullied, or maybe some other
(09:12):
problem at school. Then that's where you start talking about.
You start empathetically listening to the reasons why they want
a ditch. It might be they feel like they know
good academically, and maybe they're not. Maybe they never will be.
But there is a thing if kids can get switched
on to a topic, and often that comes from actually
(09:34):
meeting someone who's already into a career or meeting someone
who's doing well. I've got a mate who didn't do
well at school. He started going out with this girl
and found out that every member of her family was
into a profession. And he thought, they know, they're not
much smarter than me. And he went back and started
studying and he's the top lawyer. I mean these people
(09:55):
that do do well, they're not necessarily got any much
more horsepower between the ears. They sometimes just need a
role model, they need a bit of inspiration, they need
sometimes heck gentle and loving, but sometimes they just need
that to get back into it.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I think that I should explain to people who are
listening is that I think you can't actually leave legally
leave school before the age of sixteen unless you get
consent from your parents. But the story that we're talking
about is that more fifteen year olds are being allowed
to leave school according to the Education Ministry figures, and
(10:33):
the Ministry said thirteen hundred and seventy sixteens, so just
under foteen hundred. Obviously we're allowed to leave before the
age of sixteen. See, I do struggle a bit with
that one. Before sixteen, I'd be sort of thinking, come on,
you know, you really should be at least trying to
stick it out to your sixteenth birthday. I mean, under
(10:55):
what circumstances do you think you'd be okay with a
fifteen year old leaving school? John, Because back in my day,
fifteen you just could.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Yeah, half the school left it fifteen when I was
at school to be honest.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I mean we had seventh form was what the forms
were year thirteen and there were only thirty seventh formers
in our school, which was a school of six to
eight hundred kids, so it was like a pyramid. Third
the form started to tail off. Sixth form really tailed off.
Seventh form.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Your on your own school sert was designed to fail
half the kids, and you know that's it was. It
wasn't a great system.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Was it actually literally hard?
Speaker 4 (11:34):
I think it was scaled to do without that. Yeah,
I might, I might have a rather jaundiced memory of it.
Someone could set us right, I think.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Why did you how did you go with school sert?
All right? Didn't we?
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Oh I did?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Okay? Yeah, okay? Crammed for it? Degrees? Yeah, yeah, I
mean these degrees? Well yeah, the fifteen year old question.
I mean that is pretty early. I tend to think
you'd have to have I think your child for me,
and look, every parent's the same. I think they would
(12:04):
have to be in a way somewhat extraordinary that clearly
school has never deelled with them. But there's something about
them that you know that if you give them the opportunity,
they'll find a pathway and they're just champing at the
bit to step away from the the sort of crowd
of the school environment.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
There's got to have been something wrong if a kid
gets to fifteen and can't read, isn't numerant. And the
sad thing is, you know, lots of people will tell
you that there's kids arriving at high school that don't
seem to have gone through primary school. There's some kids
for whom normal education doesn't seem to work, and maybe
(12:47):
there are solutions and answers and things, but hey, they've
probably reached fifteen. And I know that there are kids
that aren't doing anything at school at fifteen. I hope
they do stay because there's usually a few gifted teachers
that work well with those types of kids. My own
son teachers kids like that down in christ Church. He
(13:09):
and a lot of what they learned then is basically
the life skills to be able to make a go
that when they do leave. You know, the academic side
of thing isn't lighting up for them. They're not going
to be Shakespearean scholars or do it working in a lab,
but they at least know about how to handle loans
and money and stuff like that. So yeah, there are
very good teachers that could work with kids like that. Unfortunately,
(13:32):
maybe some don't get that opportunity.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Who knows, but we'd love your cause on this eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty. So the number of fifteen
year olds who are leaving school is up. Of course,
back in the day you could you know, I'm not
even sure if they kept the stats about that, but
I mean it was a bit of a pretty quick
attrition rate where in the school I went to and
rode aua where fifteen people would drop out, and then sixteen,
(13:55):
and then they're only a handful left in the seventh
form otherwise known as year thirteen. But if you had
have had if you were fifteen and dropped out, why
did you do it? Was it because you hated school?
Was it because you're having trouble? And what would you
recommend for your own kids, or your nieces or nephews
or the young kids in your life. Would you be
(14:16):
concerned if they were wanting to leave school at fifteen?
What's the minimum for you? Do you think? As I mentioned,
Mike Costing left school earlier, but it turns out that
was at sixteen and he's done all right. And how
would you recognize those qualities in your kids? So lots
of questions, but what would the basics be the ground
rules for allowing your child to leave school before time's up?
(14:37):
Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty in text of Course,
nineteen ninet two. We've got quite a few texts to
get into there. My guest is John Cowen, who needs
no further introduction other than just saying it's the John Cowen.
We'll be back into the moment. Oh, eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty, it's twenty two minutes past five. Yes,
News Talks NB as it'd be with John Cowen. How
soon is too soon for your kids to leave school?
(14:58):
And under what conditions would you let them leave? With
the increasing number of kids at the age of fifteen
leaving at the moment? Ben Hello, yeah here, guys.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, I left school eighteen years ago when I was fifteen.
But a month after I turned fifteen, I hardly turned
up to school for the last year. Didn't interest me.
One day I walked onto a building site, asked for
an apprenticeship, got the opportunity, got a letter from him,
walked into the principal's office and said I'm finishing school.
(15:28):
My parents are happy with it. That was that, and yeah,
I'm glad I left school and I did like it.
For me, it was a complete waste of time. The
only thing that probably I should have paid more attention
and was messed. But I picked it up pretty quickly
on the building site, you know, when you come to
read plans and everything. You picked that stuff up pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
What you don't know, Hey, what made you wander onto
the building site? Did you think you might like it
or what was it that attracted you to that idea.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I think at the time there was a lot of
building around the place. You know, you had no choice
but to walk past it every day. So it was
just like, oh, yeah, I wouldn't mind doing this. And
it was sort of before the time of Facebook. I
think my Space was just starting and there was a
lot of people talking about it on there and yeah, so,
but no, I'm saying, if you know, like I owned
(16:24):
one hundred and fifty plus K year, I've got no debt,
no student loan, nothing like that. A lot of people
I went to school, if they're still paying off the
student loan debt from UNI and they earn about what
I earned. So yeah, you so do you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
What you're doing? And you do? You love it still?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, I've actually gone into quantity survey and I did
end up doing some part time university as you know,
about five years ago. So it's but you definitely change,
you know, you can't be on the tools forever. So yeah,
I wanted to gain a bit of experience in that
field and get qualified before you know, I got to
the stage where I can work in you more. Because yeah,
(17:09):
the physical illness does get to you. You know, even
after ten years, you still you start noticing it. But
definitely like you don't have to pass school or I
got zero NCAA at school. You don't have to pass
school to be successful.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
No, that's a great story, and I don't think it's atypical.
I think there'd be a lot of people that could
share a story like that. I mean, you got educated,
but it was an education on the job. It was
an educator and that opened the door to even more education.
The fact you went onto university, you know, that says
something that school isn't necessarily the only shoot, the only
(17:45):
ramp onto a great career. But yeah, yeah, we just
need you just need that path so you didn't leave
school and do nothing. You left school with a goal
in mind. And I think if that's the case, then
I think then you know, a conversation with your kids,
you could say, yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Actually, I don't know if you've got kids or anything.
If you or if you do have kids, or if
you were going to have kids, what would you want
to know from them? If they wanted to do this,
if they wanted to not necessarily do the same thing,
like become a builder or something. But they just said, Dad,
I want to leave school. What would your what would
your ground rules be for it?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
We've got a twelve year old and I've got a
ten month old, okay, and my world would be you're
not leaving school If you don't want to do school, fine,
but you're not leaving school until you've got a job
where you've got some stow you lined up.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Now, that seems like a great rule to me. You
got on him. Hey, good on you, mate, Thanks for
sharing that with us. Cheers, cheers. That's been your cause
of e one hundred and eighty ten eighty Claire, Hello.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Hello, sing about my grandson. He was kicked out of
college when he was first year. So if you were
into college and he's sixteen, there almost he would be.
And he's an ADHD child. Okay, he used to go
to the right two days a week and he'd go
(19:12):
to a special school one day a week. And okay,
that's a school.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
So he because you have he couldn't just be not
at any school at the age of thirteen and third
for him, could he? But so how's he? How's he doing?
What's up?
Speaker 5 (19:29):
Well, he's pretty bad with ady HD, but he's been
learning to drive and he's met with a driver person
the other day and he said he's ready to get
his license. So yes, specifically gets his life, he'll be gone. God,
his mother and father bought him a car.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Do you think he'll find it? Do you think he'll
find a way In terms of what he wants to
do with his life and job and all that.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Yeah, he wants to go fishing in a fishing boat.
He's not old enough to leave till he's eight.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Well, you've got something he wants to do. Yeah, what
do you reckon, John?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
I reckon that there's you know, some kids do have
a harder, harder rod to ho you know, and with
if you're neurodiverse, you have learning disabilities, there may be
a better environment for them to learn in. And it
sounds great that he's got this community of the Maria
and this especial school, and I really hope that, you know,
(20:32):
with good parents on site as well. You know, there's
there's there's every chance that he's going to have a
great life too. Sadly, some of these kids, you know,
when the problems can get on top, you know, start
piling up the learning difficulties, but of ADHD not having
the discipline of school, they can get in trouble and
things not go well. It doesn't sound like it's going
(20:52):
to be that's going to happen if your grandchild. Sounds
like he's got people around them that'll keep them on track,
and that's great.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, thanks for your call, Claire. We will move on
to where we're up to Mac. Hello.
Speaker 6 (21:05):
Yeah, I lovely to meet you both. How are you
both doing this evening?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Good? Thanks?
Speaker 4 (21:09):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 6 (21:11):
What would you like to share with Yeah, So, I
think this is a very contemporary issue which is going
to offer like a different perspective to what's been shared
to date. And I suppose kind of a little bit
about my background. I finished high school twenty nine years old,
so like a fairly recent.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Grad as it were. Hang on, all right, you said
finished high school. Did you say you finished at twenty
nine because that would be a late sorry even years Okay, right,
you went right through yep, yep, yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:41):
Yeah, yeah exactly, So I suppose I can speak to
what was what was useful about that. I personally think
that a lot of the callers are right on point.
You know, it ultimately comes down to what is any
given person's particular path and is this going to help
them succeed in whatever endeavors they pursue. I think that's
really valuable. And I think my kind of particular take
(22:05):
on this, which is very relevant for listeners in general
at the moment, is really understanding like what does something
like AI automation in the near future look like in
terms of job security for various different roles.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So you're absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
I think you know a lot of kids that we
would normally have said, you know, oh, great, you're getting
a good education at university or something, they're basically being
set up to have a very hard time of it
because AI is just stripping out so many jobs.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Well, I guess that's the question about what's school for.
I think school's about teaching you to think. I mean,
teaches you certain elements of knowledge, and I think learning
a bit about history is good maths and you're prayin
to do that sort of stuff. But in terms of
particular skills, I'm.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Not Yeah, a toolbox. If be able to handle a
world that we don't know is you know around the
corner these you can either learn a trade or you
can learn to as you know if you're heading straight
for there. But as you say, you know what's around
the corner.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So when, Yeah, so when would you be unhappy with
kids leaving school or what conditions would you set for
an early departure, Matt.
Speaker 6 (23:16):
I think it's going to in practice depend on the individual.
I think, as has been discussed before. If you have
like a very clear motivation to pursue something and you
have opportunities, awesome, like you're you're set up to have
I think a much better start than many.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Do you wish you had left school earlier?
Speaker 6 (23:36):
No, I don't think that was particularly strong for me personally.
I think academia and the likes were a strong fit
for me, and I think that but the kind of
thinking about this, this AI automation question. I do think
that in the near future, the importance of a trade
background as opposed to a university background is actually going
(23:57):
to skyrocket. I expect that automation is going to hit
various different knowledge setor of role, so, for example, anything
from software engineering to content rating very hard. So I
do think that if someone is in a position where
maybe they're sixteen, they're thinking about a trade in particular.
(24:17):
You know, someone was talking about walking under construction site
just before. I do think that if you have those
kind of opportunities in academia, isn't for you. It is
a thoroughly worthwhile consideration because I do expect it to
be much more difficult to automate in their future, and
I do expect this to be among the many risks
that AI presents in the nest future.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Mind you, Yeah, thanks for your coll mack, mind you.
I mean, look, I think people over the course is
not just AI, John, but it's worth pointing out that
people have been learning, having educations, and focusing on careers
which have become redundant, you know, or have disappeared over
the course of you know, right through the Industrial Revolution,
you know, and to today, So it's not just AI.
(24:58):
It'll be interesting to see where that it all settles
down actually when it comes to AI. But I mean,
you can't it's I think it's easy to be doom
and gloomy of thinking, oh, he's not going to be
a place for me in society, but it just makes
your career choice a bit different.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
It also makes me wary of people that just train
train in a skill. You know, all the people that
trained to be shorthand typists for instance, and launched it,
you know when I was at school, launched out into
a world that was suddenly full of computers where they
didn't have typing pools anymore. And yeah, so training people
(25:33):
up with specific skills which are going to become extinct,
you know. Yeah, I think it's far better to give
kids a general education like you're talking about. And that's
the brilliant part of an arts education, of the education
that teaches how how to think and to learn anything
good to take.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Thanks for your call, Mac, let's go to Dave. Yeah,
that's you good.
Speaker 7 (26:00):
Yeah, education is a big thing. There are kids at
school that can't really can't write, and it's just a
waste of time being at school, and I was one
of them. Yeah, I'm the slit sick. I just it
was just a waste of time, just sat there and
did nothing.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
How long ago was this.
Speaker 7 (26:24):
Foo going back in the seventies. Yeah, And I was
told the best job I'd ever have was sweeping the
streets as soon as I could. It's fifteen. I left
school understandable, and I knew I had a problem, and
I knew I had to solve that problem. I solved
that problem by working hard, being totally reliable, and finding
(26:45):
the best paying job I could do.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
And what are you doing? How's life going? How did
you do?
Speaker 7 (26:51):
At eighteen? I bought my first house in Candara. At
twenty one it was freehold.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, what are you doing? What's your gig?
Speaker 7 (27:01):
Are you just underground?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Oh right?
Speaker 7 (27:06):
Remember the tierrists townel and Wellington. That was my first
job of rine as a kid.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
And have you got yourself?
Speaker 7 (27:15):
Yeah? No, no family? Yeah, but I thought every town
I'd worked And I bought a house and retired. Retired
three years ago, two years ago, sixty five. I didn't retire.
I just told all my houses and bought a part.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Good on you, Matt, Dave. I mean, I think it's
good to hear these things because I think a lot
of parents worry about how their kids going, and everyone
goes in different paths. But you know what, there's often
a path if you keep if you just keep moving,
if you be if you're productive. Obviously, if you take
time off and just sit on your couch thinking that
Lotta is going to do it for you, then that's
probably not the answer, is it, John.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
I education is so important that you shouldn't let school
get in the way if school isn't the way you're
going to get your education, and I think we hearing
from people who got their education. You know, if you
were dyslexic back in the seventies, there probably wasn't the
help that might be available now. And he may well
(28:16):
have been able to get a good education nowadays, but.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
At a school.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
But yeah, I think that the thing is if your
kids wanted to leave, find out why. Find out if
there's a good options for perhaps getting an education in
some other different way, maybe within the school or out
of the school. But make sure that there's some path
onwards so they don't just flounder. Install Because teenagers that
have stalled, they can get really depressed and it's not
(28:44):
a great start in life.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Right, We're going to be back with more calls in
just a moment. It's eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
is the number is twenty one minutes to six because
welcome back to the parents squad. My I'm with John Cowan,
(29:06):
the John Cowen talking about leaving school early at fifteen.
Whens it okay, I've got a text to here John
just before we get to the next callers, which I
think just makes a pretty good common sense point. Hi, guys,
a good work ethic will overcome most hurdles if you
want it to, says Colin's be absolutely pretty much. If
your child has a work ethic, albeit not a school one,
(29:29):
then you're probably going to turn out all right. Right,
let's take some more calls.
Speaker 8 (29:32):
Allison High, Hi, I left school when I was fifteen.
I had i'd had my own sheep flock when I
was twelve. I loved farming and my father decided to
(29:55):
shift and buy a farm up in another district. I
would have had to have boarded.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
I didn't want a board How long ago was this, Alison?
Speaker 8 (30:09):
I'm in my eighties right, and I was in a
chosen form. In those days, they only took the top
twelve that could sit school sirit you see in that
in the fifth form. So anyway, I went to the
principal and said I wanted to leave school. And she
(30:37):
said to me, what will you do if your husband dies?
Now I was fifteen. I was no more interested in
a husband than fly. And I thought, oh, silly old thing,
you know. But I actually remembered when my husband died.
I married a farmer and we were married for thirty
(31:00):
years and he died of cancer. And I remembered what
she said, and I thought, well, I can carry on farming.
That's what I've done all my life.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
What did you do when you left school? What did
you do immediately at that age when you left school?
Speaker 8 (31:17):
Went on the farm and helped my father on the farm.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Okay, so yeah, well that was that was a very
old school attitude your principal presented you with. Wasn't it
that you had to get married?
Speaker 8 (31:32):
Yes? Yes, what was I going to do with my
husband died? But anyway, I remembered it when when my
husband did die what she said to me, and I thought,
well I can I could carry on farming. Till my
son was old enough to take over IM till I
was eighty and I've retired.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Thanks for sharing that. By the way, how old were
you when you meet your husband?
Speaker 8 (32:01):
Oh? I suppose I was about ship?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Okay, well good, well, thank you for sharing that. Well,
that's I really appreciate it. All right, let's take it
one more caller here, let's go to tim get Ida.
How are you going?
Speaker 9 (32:18):
I'm doing good. So I left school at the age
of sixteen. School wasn't really for me. I honestly struggled.
I have the six year I have ADHD, so I
just could not focus. I just could not get mess
English reading righting. It just wasn't for me, and I
(32:39):
ended up. I ended up up mechanics. I did a
course in a mechanics when I left school in year twelve,
and I tried to get an apprenticeship and I spent
a year and a half looking for an apprenticeship. Never
got one, so I ended up getting into warehouses.
Speaker 7 (33:03):
Yea.
Speaker 9 (33:04):
From the age of seventeen to twenty I was still
wareholding and I became really depressed because I was in
an environment it was very toxic and I just wanted
to do something to go back to the community, and
I found that community support workers. There's a lot a
(33:30):
lot of people, I mean a lot of organizations looking
for people to work in these homes, looking out for
people's disupposities. And I'm now I've been there now five
years and I absolutely love them.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Oh good, that's fantastic.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Yeah, there's a huge difference between leaving school to go
and do something and dropping out, and I think that's
a petter distinction we should make. I'd be very worried
about these kids we're talking about tim that just dropping
out and for nothing and doing nothing from Pep's self
destructive activity. But it's very different if you're moving on
(34:10):
to a job, and maybe it does take a few
a few different tries. Like our last caller and fantastic
they're working in as a community support worker. I did
that work myself for a while and it is very
worthwhile work here.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
I think it does seem that there's a bit of
a change going on that people are that it's it's
now sort of seen as being quite a valid thing
to just get out and start earning. Because this texture
says the center you leave school, the sener you get
earning and learning school does not prepare you for work,
well necessarily, I would say, or owning and building your
own business. So yeah, this person left early, built and
(34:48):
sold a business and built another. So I think that's
the thing, and I don't mind that. But as long
as the kids who are leaving value the fact that
they've got, it's time to get cracking with the rest
of their life.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, anyway, gosh, time flies. We've got a knock it
on the head there, John, But lovely chat with you.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
Be nice to see you again.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, and we'll look forward to look forward to next time.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Cheers mate.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
That wraps the parents quite yes, because we're going to
be back shortly with Jason Pine. By the way, fascinating
discussion with a bunch of callers there in texts on
leaving school early and if you missed any of the
hour you want to go catch it then we love
you to go to the website News Talk said be
dot corded in the week in Collective. You search for
that and that audio will be up very shortly. We'll
be back to rap Sport in just a moment. News
(35:35):
Talks edb For
Speaker 1 (35:36):
More from the Weekend Collective, listen live to News talks
edb weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast on
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You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talk
s B.
Speaker 2 (00:44):
Yes and welcome back, Welcome in. This is the Weekend Collective.
I'm Tim Beverage and this is the Parents Squad and
we're going to have a chat about this. There's been
a headline around the number of kids who are dropping
out of school is at its highest rates since two
thousand and seven. So it's becoming a fairly accept these
days that you maybe you don't need a diploma or
(01:06):
a degree to be successful in life, but many parents
will still be concerned if their child comes to them
wanting to leave school early. So how do you have
those conversations with your kids? What are the conversations look like?
What sort of ground rules are they? Would you be?
I mean, is finishing school to you know, your eighteenth
birthday or you know, you know form seven? What is it?
(01:28):
Year thirteen? Is that more? Is that more common? Is
it more necessary? Or do you do you think? Actually,
you know what, it doesn't really matter because I think
actually I don't want to speak out of turn here,
but I think that our Breakfast host Mike Costking, I
(01:48):
think I seem to remember that he didn't stick around
at school for any longer than was legally required, and
he got out, and I think he's done all right.
People might say that Mike's done al right. And also
he probably comes under that heading of what's called an
autodidactic learner, so he's a self start. It comes to
learning about things and reading and curiosity and things. So yeah,
(02:09):
how what is your approach as a parent if your children,
or if your child did ask you, or if they
do ask you, that they want to leave school early,
what would the ground rules be? Is it necessary for
your kids to go the full whatever it is year
thirteen years at school or is it actually okay to
(02:31):
drop out? So anyway, joining us And I actually don't
know if he dropped it, if he did the full
thirteen years, or if he left in standard six Back
in the day, John Karen Kid, Hey, hey, you going.
Speaker 3 (02:42):
Good a tim?
Speaker 4 (02:43):
I'm well think you know, I lingered around until they
picked me out.
Speaker 2 (02:48):
It's an interesting one, though, wasn't it, Because I mean,
who knows what success looks like. But I mean I'd
be shocked if my kids wanted to pull out of
school earlier, because I'd want them to get that ring
or squeeze the maximum out of the free education that's
available at a good school.
Speaker 4 (03:05):
You'd hope so. But school doesn't suit everyone, and leaving
early isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it often is.
And so it's good to work out why your children,
why your kids want to drop out, and is it
because they're being bullied and having a tough time and
are just miserable at school?
Speaker 2 (03:23):
You know, in which case you would not want them
to drop out, because that would not be a good
reason to me. That's a reason to address the bullying,
isn't it.
Speaker 4 (03:31):
Oh, that's right, Or even give them the opportunity of
a fresh start at a new school, which is not
a bad solution. Sometimes it gives your chance to reinvent yourself.
But perhaps talk about bullying some other time. But you know,
kids drop out for all sorts of reasons. Sometimes it's
because of some mental health problem. They're depressed, Maybe they've
(03:52):
been messing around of drugs and its scrambled their brains
a bit and they've just lost their their spark. And
you know, sometimes if it's a sudden decline in academic interest,
they've been fine right through and then all of a
sudden they hate school. They hate the teachers, they can't
get anything in you'd have to look at, hey, what's
(04:14):
going on here? And so you know, it's definitely worth
asking a few extra questions, maybe of the child, but
also of the teachers and staff, because they probably got
some insights and perhaps some solutions and options for your kids.
It could be because all their friends are leaving. I mean,
I remember at school.
Speaker 2 (04:34):
There's another bad reason. Yeah, if all.
Speaker 4 (04:37):
Your mates are leaving, I want to leave, you know.
And because it's a very powerful influence on young people
what your friends are doing, So you've got to then
start thinking, is this a problem that could be overcome
and bypassed. Maybe they've flunked out majorly in one set
of exams and they're so depressed about it that and
(05:01):
by the way, this will be something that you'll see
more and more if they go and DITCHENC when they
switch to NCEEA. You know, there is that sense of hey,
I may not be succeeding in this, but I can
succeed in that. And if I don't get you know,
I can have another crack at it in this rather
than the high stakes all or nothing exams that people
(05:22):
like myself we loved because I could cruise and then
cram and pass, which isn't any measure of how well
you're doing at school really, and so we may.
Speaker 2 (05:32):
It's just kind of a humble brag, isn't it. I mean,
it was something.
Speaker 4 (05:37):
It was something I was proud of at the time
and now ashamed of because I spent I wasted my
time at school when I could have been getting an education.
You must I was the only thing I was good
at at school was passing. And that's not the same
as getting an education.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Ah No, but maybe more rubbed off in you than
you're giving credit for, because you know, I mean, as
time goes past, you remember that the major sort of
headlines and for you, the headline was cramming at the end.
But surely I don't know how much. I mean, did
you before you started cramming? Did you know nothing and
(06:13):
you just went, you know, let's get into it, because
it must have rubbed off on you. Surely, I know.
Speaker 4 (06:18):
But it's not quite the same as having the opportunity
of learning, checking, relearning and everything like this.
Speaker 2 (06:26):
The best.
Speaker 4 (06:27):
You know, I used to think it was good that
you know, sees for degrees, squeeze parts, you know, do
a cram, get past, and then dump it from your
head as quick as you can. And so look, honestly,
I regret the way I tackled it, and just think
that there's better ways for kids to learn, perhaps get
I don't, by the way, I don't think myself. All
(06:49):
my costkings are particularly good case studies on this because we're.
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Probably rather apparently he left at sixteen, Yeah, and that's
I guess that is actually a bit of the catch
is that there are always people who will have go
on to have exceptional lives, regardless of what benefits or
obstacles they've had put in their way.
Speaker 4 (07:08):
Half your listers are going to have stories about people
that left early and did really, really well. But there
is a but there is a thing, and I wanted
to get to that. If you if you leave, you
need some path after that. If you if you leave
because your mate said he's got a job at a
at a surf at a surf shop and you can
work there for a couple of hours a week and
things like that, yeah, that's going to burn out pretty
(07:29):
quick and you're going to be making just making a
dent in the sofa for at home playing Xbox and
that's that's no way for a young person to get on.
But if they're leaving and going on to a course,
if they're leaving and going on to apprenticeship, if you
can get them or some other path to a career
or or something where they can get a sense of progress,
you know, and or maybe if you start talking about
(07:53):
it in terms of a break from education, maybe they
go off and do Camp America. Maybe they go off
and stay with their uncle in Switzerland. Maybe they you know,
and go and do a sound mixing course at some
polydaic or something. But with the idea that maybe they'll
come back and finish off some qualifications or move on
later on. It's not a dumb idea to sometimes cast
(08:16):
about because honestly, for some kids it's marking time at
school and they might be spending their time doing something better.
Speaker 2 (08:23):
Yeah, because I think we could probably agree. I mean,
if you're if a child or I don't like saying child,
it makes them sound like that tiny a young person
wants to leave some little fellah. But if a young
person wants to leave school simply becaurse, it's all a
bit hard and they just want to have a year
off and sit on the couch and do not much.
(08:46):
I would say that it would be reasonably irresponsible for
a parent to agree.
Speaker 4 (08:49):
With that, and I'd probably be agreeing with you there. Yeah,
And that's why I'm saying it's good to have a
path out of here. And the thing is, if it's
as a result of pain, if it's a result of distress,
you know they're not you know they're really they've been
upset at school, they've been bullied, or maybe some other
(09:12):
problem at school. Then that's where you start talking about.
You start empathetically listening to the reasons why they want
a ditch. It might be they feel like they know
good academically, and maybe they're not. Maybe they never will be.
But there is a thing if kids can get switched
on to a topic, and often that comes from actually
(09:34):
meeting someone who's already into a career or meeting someone
who's doing well. I've got a mate who didn't do
well at school. He started going out with this girl
and found out that every member of her family was
into a profession. And he thought, they know, they're not
much smarter than me. And he went back and started
studying and he's the top lawyer. I mean these people
(09:55):
that do do well, they're not necessarily got any much
more horsepower between the ears. They sometimes just need a
role model, they need a bit of inspiration, they need
sometimes heck gentle and loving, but sometimes they just need
that to get back into it.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
I think that I should explain to people who are
listening is that I think you can't actually leave legally
leave school before the age of sixteen unless you get
consent from your parents. But the story that we're talking
about is that more fifteen year olds are being allowed
to leave school according to the Education Ministry figures, and
(10:33):
the Ministry said thirteen hundred and seventy sixteens, so just
under foteen hundred. Obviously we're allowed to leave before the
age of sixteen. See, I do struggle a bit with
that one. Before sixteen, I'd be sort of thinking, come on,
you know, you really should be at least trying to
stick it out to your sixteenth birthday. I mean, under
(10:55):
what circumstances do you think you'd be okay with a
fifteen year old leaving school? John, Because back in my day,
fifteen you just could.
Speaker 4 (11:03):
Yeah, half the school left it fifteen when I was
at school to be honest.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I mean we had seventh form was what the forms
were year thirteen and there were only thirty seventh formers
in our school, which was a school of six to
eight hundred kids, so it was like a pyramid. Third
the form started to tail off. Sixth form really tailed off.
Seventh form.
Speaker 4 (11:23):
Your on your own school sert was designed to fail
half the kids, and you know that's it was. It
wasn't a great system.
Speaker 2 (11:33):
Was it actually literally hard?
Speaker 4 (11:34):
I think it was scaled to do without that. Yeah,
I might, I might have a rather jaundiced memory of it.
Someone could set us right, I think.
Speaker 2 (11:40):
Why did you how did you go with school sert?
All right? Didn't we?
Speaker 4 (11:43):
Oh I did?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
Okay? Yeah, okay? Crammed for it? Degrees? Yeah, yeah, I
mean these degrees? Well yeah, the fifteen year old question.
I mean that is pretty early. I tend to think
you'd have to have I think your child for me,
and look, every parent's the same. I think they would
(12:04):
have to be in a way somewhat extraordinary that clearly
school has never deelled with them. But there's something about
them that you know that if you give them the opportunity,
they'll find a pathway and they're just champing at the
bit to step away from the the sort of crowd
of the school environment.
Speaker 4 (12:25):
There's got to have been something wrong if a kid
gets to fifteen and can't read, isn't numerant. And the
sad thing is, you know, lots of people will tell
you that there's kids arriving at high school that don't
seem to have gone through primary school. There's some kids
for whom normal education doesn't seem to work, and maybe
(12:47):
there are solutions and answers and things, but hey, they've
probably reached fifteen. And I know that there are kids
that aren't doing anything at school at fifteen. I hope
they do stay because there's usually a few gifted teachers
that work well with those types of kids. My own
son teachers kids like that down in christ Church. He
(13:09):
and a lot of what they learned then is basically
the life skills to be able to make a go
that when they do leave. You know, the academic side
of thing isn't lighting up for them. They're not going
to be Shakespearean scholars or do it working in a lab,
but they at least know about how to handle loans
and money and stuff like that. So yeah, there are
very good teachers that could work with kids like that. Unfortunately,
(13:32):
maybe some don't get that opportunity.
Speaker 2 (13:34):
Who knows, but we'd love your cause on this eight
hundred and eighty ten eighty. So the number of fifteen
year olds who are leaving school is up. Of course,
back in the day you could you know, I'm not
even sure if they kept the stats about that, but
I mean it was a bit of a pretty quick
attrition rate where in the school I went to and
rode aua where fifteen people would drop out, and then sixteen,
(13:55):
and then they're only a handful left in the seventh
form otherwise known as year thirteen. But if you had
have had if you were fifteen and dropped out, why
did you do it? Was it because you hated school?
Was it because you're having trouble? And what would you
recommend for your own kids, or your nieces or nephews
or the young kids in your life. Would you be
(14:16):
concerned if they were wanting to leave school at fifteen?
What's the minimum for you? Do you think? As I mentioned,
Mike Costing left school earlier, but it turns out that
was at sixteen and he's done all right. And how
would you recognize those qualities in your kids? So lots
of questions, but what would the basics be the ground
rules for allowing your child to leave school before time's up?
(14:37):
Eight hundred and eighty ten eighty in text of Course,
nineteen ninet two. We've got quite a few texts to
get into there. My guest is John Cowen, who needs
no further introduction other than just saying it's the John Cowen.
We'll be back into the moment. Oh, eight hundred and
eighty ten eighty, it's twenty two minutes past five. Yes,
News Talks NB as it'd be with John Cowen. How
soon is too soon for your kids to leave school?
(14:58):
And under what conditions would you let them leave? With
the increasing number of kids at the age of fifteen
leaving at the moment? Ben Hello, yeah here, guys.
Speaker 3 (15:07):
Yeah, I left school eighteen years ago when I was fifteen.
But a month after I turned fifteen, I hardly turned
up to school for the last year. Didn't interest me.
One day I walked onto a building site, asked for
an apprenticeship, got the opportunity, got a letter from him,
walked into the principal's office and said I'm finishing school.
(15:28):
My parents are happy with it. That was that, and yeah,
I'm glad I left school and I did like it.
For me, it was a complete waste of time. The
only thing that probably I should have paid more attention
and was messed. But I picked it up pretty quickly
on the building site, you know, when you come to
read plans and everything. You picked that stuff up pretty quickly.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
What you don't know, Hey, what made you wander onto
the building site? Did you think you might like it
or what was it that attracted you to that idea.
Speaker 3 (16:01):
I think at the time there was a lot of
building around the place. You know, you had no choice
but to walk past it every day. So it was
just like, oh, yeah, I wouldn't mind doing this. And
it was sort of before the time of Facebook. I
think my Space was just starting and there was a
lot of people talking about it on there and yeah, so,
but no, I'm saying, if you know, like I owned
(16:24):
one hundred and fifty plus K year, I've got no debt,
no student loan, nothing like that. A lot of people
I went to school, if they're still paying off the
student loan debt from UNI and they earn about what
I earned. So yeah, you so do you enjoy.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
What you're doing? And you do? You love it still?
Speaker 3 (16:47):
Yeah, I've actually gone into quantity survey and I did
end up doing some part time university as you know,
about five years ago. So it's but you definitely change,
you know, you can't be on the tools forever. So yeah,
I wanted to gain a bit of experience in that
field and get qualified before you know, I got to
the stage where I can work in you more. Because yeah,
(17:09):
the physical illness does get to you. You know, even
after ten years, you still you start noticing it. But
definitely like you don't have to pass school or I
got zero NCAA at school. You don't have to pass
school to be successful.
Speaker 4 (17:22):
No, that's a great story, and I don't think it's atypical.
I think there'd be a lot of people that could
share a story like that. I mean, you got educated,
but it was an education on the job. It was
an educator and that opened the door to even more education.
The fact you went onto university, you know, that says
something that school isn't necessarily the only shoot, the only
(17:45):
ramp onto a great career. But yeah, yeah, we just
need you just need that path so you didn't leave
school and do nothing. You left school with a goal
in mind. And I think if that's the case, then
I think then you know, a conversation with your kids,
you could say, yeah, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
Actually, I don't know if you've got kids or anything.
If you or if you do have kids, or if
you were going to have kids, what would you want
to know from them? If they wanted to do this,
if they wanted to not necessarily do the same thing,
like become a builder or something. But they just said, Dad,
I want to leave school. What would your what would
your ground rules be for it?
Speaker 3 (18:25):
We've got a twelve year old and I've got a
ten month old, okay, and my world would be you're
not leaving school If you don't want to do school, fine,
but you're not leaving school until you've got a job
where you've got some stow you lined up.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
Now, that seems like a great rule to me. You
got on him. Hey, good on you, mate, Thanks for
sharing that with us. Cheers, cheers. That's been your cause
of e one hundred and eighty ten eighty Claire, Hello.
Speaker 5 (18:50):
Hello, sing about my grandson. He was kicked out of
college when he was first year. So if you were
into college and he's sixteen, there almost he would be.
And he's an ADHD child. Okay, he used to go
to the right two days a week and he'd go
(19:12):
to a special school one day a week. And okay,
that's a school.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
So he because you have he couldn't just be not
at any school at the age of thirteen and third
for him, could he? But so how's he? How's he doing?
What's up?
Speaker 5 (19:29):
Well, he's pretty bad with ady HD, but he's been
learning to drive and he's met with a driver person
the other day and he said he's ready to get
his license. So yes, specifically gets his life, he'll be gone. God,
his mother and father bought him a car.
Speaker 2 (19:52):
Do you think he'll find it? Do you think he'll
find a way In terms of what he wants to
do with his life and job and all that.
Speaker 5 (19:58):
Yeah, he wants to go fishing in a fishing boat.
He's not old enough to leave till he's eight.
Speaker 2 (20:06):
Well, you've got something he wants to do. Yeah, what
do you reckon, John?
Speaker 4 (20:09):
I reckon that there's you know, some kids do have
a harder, harder rod to ho you know, and with
if you're neurodiverse, you have learning disabilities, there may be
a better environment for them to learn in. And it
sounds great that he's got this community of the Maria
and this especial school, and I really hope that, you know,
(20:32):
with good parents on site as well. You know, there's
there's there's every chance that he's going to have a
great life too. Sadly, some of these kids, you know,
when the problems can get on top, you know, start
piling up the learning difficulties, but of ADHD not having
the discipline of school, they can get in trouble and
things not go well. It doesn't sound like it's going
(20:52):
to be that's going to happen if your grandchild. Sounds
like he's got people around them that'll keep them on track,
and that's great.
Speaker 2 (20:59):
Yeah, thanks for your call, Claire. We will move on
to where we're up to Mac. Hello.
Speaker 6 (21:05):
Yeah, I lovely to meet you both. How are you
both doing this evening?
Speaker 2 (21:08):
Good? Thanks?
Speaker 4 (21:09):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 6 (21:11):
What would you like to share with Yeah, So, I
think this is a very contemporary issue which is going
to offer like a different perspective to what's been shared
to date. And I suppose kind of a little bit
about my background. I finished high school twenty nine years old,
so like a fairly recent.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Grad as it were. Hang on, all right, you said
finished high school. Did you say you finished at twenty
nine because that would be a late sorry even years Okay, right,
you went right through yep, yep, yeah.
Speaker 6 (21:41):
Yeah, yeah exactly, So I suppose I can speak to
what was what was useful about that. I personally think
that a lot of the callers are right on point.
You know, it ultimately comes down to what is any
given person's particular path and is this going to help
them succeed in whatever endeavors they pursue. I think that's
really valuable. And I think my kind of particular take
(22:05):
on this, which is very relevant for listeners in general
at the moment, is really understanding like what does something
like AI automation in the near future look like in
terms of job security for various different roles.
Speaker 2 (22:18):
So you're absolutely right.
Speaker 4 (22:20):
I think you know a lot of kids that we
would normally have said, you know, oh, great, you're getting
a good education at university or something, they're basically being
set up to have a very hard time of it
because AI is just stripping out so many jobs.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
Well, I guess that's the question about what's school for.
I think school's about teaching you to think. I mean,
teaches you certain elements of knowledge, and I think learning
a bit about history is good maths and you're prayin
to do that sort of stuff. But in terms of
particular skills, I'm.
Speaker 4 (22:48):
Not Yeah, a toolbox. If be able to handle a
world that we don't know is you know around the
corner these you can either learn a trade or you
can learn to as you know if you're heading straight
for there. But as you say, you know what's around
the corner.
Speaker 2 (23:07):
So when, Yeah, so when would you be unhappy with
kids leaving school or what conditions would you set for
an early departure, Matt.
Speaker 6 (23:16):
I think it's going to in practice depend on the individual.
I think, as has been discussed before. If you have
like a very clear motivation to pursue something and you
have opportunities, awesome, like you're you're set up to have
I think a much better start than many.
Speaker 2 (23:33):
Do you wish you had left school earlier?
Speaker 6 (23:36):
No, I don't think that was particularly strong for me personally.
I think academia and the likes were a strong fit
for me, and I think that but the kind of
thinking about this, this AI automation question. I do think
that in the near future, the importance of a trade
background as opposed to a university background is actually going
(23:57):
to skyrocket. I expect that automation is going to hit
various different knowledge setor of role, so, for example, anything
from software engineering to content rating very hard. So I
do think that if someone is in a position where
maybe they're sixteen, they're thinking about a trade in particular.
(24:17):
You know, someone was talking about walking under construction site
just before. I do think that if you have those
kind of opportunities in academia, isn't for you. It is
a thoroughly worthwhile consideration because I do expect it to
be much more difficult to automate in their future, and
I do expect this to be among the many risks
that AI presents in the nest future.
Speaker 2 (24:37):
Mind you, Yeah, thanks for your coll mack, mind you.
I mean, look, I think people over the course is
not just AI, John, but it's worth pointing out that
people have been learning, having educations, and focusing on careers
which have become redundant, you know, or have disappeared over
the course of you know, right through the Industrial Revolution,
you know, and to today, So it's not just AI.
(24:58):
It'll be interesting to see where that it all settles
down actually when it comes to AI. But I mean,
you can't it's I think it's easy to be doom
and gloomy of thinking, oh, he's not going to be
a place for me in society, but it just makes
your career choice a bit different.
Speaker 4 (25:13):
It also makes me wary of people that just train
train in a skill. You know, all the people that
trained to be shorthand typists for instance, and launched it,
you know when I was at school, launched out into
a world that was suddenly full of computers where they
didn't have typing pools anymore. And yeah, so training people
(25:33):
up with specific skills which are going to become extinct,
you know. Yeah, I think it's far better to give
kids a general education like you're talking about. And that's
the brilliant part of an arts education, of the education
that teaches how how to think and to learn anything
good to take.
Speaker 2 (25:53):
Thanks for your call, Mac, let's go to Dave. Yeah,
that's you good.
Speaker 7 (26:00):
Yeah, education is a big thing. There are kids at
school that can't really can't write, and it's just a
waste of time being at school, and I was one
of them. Yeah, I'm the slit sick. I just it
was just a waste of time, just sat there and
did nothing.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
How long ago was this.
Speaker 7 (26:24):
Foo going back in the seventies. Yeah, And I was
told the best job I'd ever have was sweeping the
streets as soon as I could. It's fifteen. I left
school understandable, and I knew I had a problem, and
I knew I had to solve that problem. I solved
that problem by working hard, being totally reliable, and finding
(26:45):
the best paying job I could do.
Speaker 2 (26:47):
And what are you doing? How's life going? How did
you do?
Speaker 7 (26:51):
At eighteen? I bought my first house in Candara. At
twenty one it was freehold.
Speaker 2 (26:59):
Yeah, what are you doing? What's your gig?
Speaker 7 (27:01):
Are you just underground?
Speaker 2 (27:05):
Oh right?
Speaker 7 (27:06):
Remember the tierrists townel and Wellington. That was my first
job of rine as a kid.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
And have you got yourself?
Speaker 7 (27:15):
Yeah? No, no family? Yeah, but I thought every town
I'd worked And I bought a house and retired. Retired
three years ago, two years ago, sixty five. I didn't retire.
I just told all my houses and bought a part.
Speaker 2 (27:33):
Good on you, Matt, Dave. I mean, I think it's
good to hear these things because I think a lot
of parents worry about how their kids going, and everyone
goes in different paths. But you know what, there's often
a path if you keep if you just keep moving,
if you be if you're productive. Obviously, if you take
time off and just sit on your couch thinking that
Lotta is going to do it for you, then that's
probably not the answer, is it, John.
Speaker 4 (27:55):
I education is so important that you shouldn't let school
get in the way if school isn't the way you're
going to get your education, and I think we hearing
from people who got their education. You know, if you
were dyslexic back in the seventies, there probably wasn't the
help that might be available now. And he may well
(28:16):
have been able to get a good education nowadays, but.
Speaker 7 (28:19):
At a school.
Speaker 4 (28:20):
But yeah, I think that the thing is if your
kids wanted to leave, find out why. Find out if
there's a good options for perhaps getting an education in
some other different way, maybe within the school or out
of the school. But make sure that there's some path
onwards so they don't just flounder. Install Because teenagers that
have stalled, they can get really depressed and it's not
(28:44):
a great start in life.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Right, We're going to be back with more calls in
just a moment. It's eight hundred and eighty ten eighty
is the number is twenty one minutes to six because
welcome back to the parents squad. My I'm with John Cowan,
(29:06):
the John Cowen talking about leaving school early at fifteen.
Whens it okay, I've got a text to here John
just before we get to the next callers, which I
think just makes a pretty good common sense point. Hi, guys,
a good work ethic will overcome most hurdles if you
want it to, says Colin's be absolutely pretty much. If
your child has a work ethic, albeit not a school one,
(29:29):
then you're probably going to turn out all right. Right,
let's take some more calls.
Speaker 8 (29:32):
Allison High, Hi, I left school when I was fifteen.
I had i'd had my own sheep flock when I
was twelve. I loved farming and my father decided to
(29:55):
shift and buy a farm up in another district. I
would have had to have boarded.
Speaker 2 (30:05):
I didn't want a board How long ago was this, Alison?
Speaker 8 (30:09):
I'm in my eighties right, and I was in a
chosen form. In those days, they only took the top
twelve that could sit school sirit you see in that
in the fifth form. So anyway, I went to the
principal and said I wanted to leave school. And she
(30:37):
said to me, what will you do if your husband dies?
Now I was fifteen. I was no more interested in
a husband than fly. And I thought, oh, silly old thing,
you know. But I actually remembered when my husband died.
I married a farmer and we were married for thirty
(31:00):
years and he died of cancer. And I remembered what
she said, and I thought, well, I can carry on farming.
That's what I've done all my life.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
What did you do when you left school? What did
you do immediately at that age when you left school?
Speaker 8 (31:17):
Went on the farm and helped my father on the farm.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Okay, so yeah, well that was that was a very
old school attitude your principal presented you with. Wasn't it
that you had to get married?
Speaker 8 (31:32):
Yes? Yes, what was I going to do with my
husband died? But anyway, I remembered it when when my
husband did die what she said to me, and I thought,
well I can I could carry on farming. Till my
son was old enough to take over IM till I
was eighty and I've retired.
Speaker 2 (31:55):
Thanks for sharing that. By the way, how old were
you when you meet your husband?
Speaker 8 (32:01):
Oh? I suppose I was about ship?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Okay, well good, well, thank you for sharing that. Well,
that's I really appreciate it. All right, let's take it
one more caller here, let's go to tim get Ida.
How are you going?
Speaker 9 (32:18):
I'm doing good. So I left school at the age
of sixteen. School wasn't really for me. I honestly struggled.
I have the six year I have ADHD, so I
just could not focus. I just could not get mess
English reading righting. It just wasn't for me, and I
(32:39):
ended up. I ended up up mechanics. I did a
course in a mechanics when I left school in year twelve,
and I tried to get an apprenticeship and I spent
a year and a half looking for an apprenticeship. Never
got one, so I ended up getting into warehouses.
Speaker 7 (33:03):
Yea.
Speaker 9 (33:04):
From the age of seventeen to twenty I was still
wareholding and I became really depressed because I was in
an environment it was very toxic and I just wanted
to do something to go back to the community, and
I found that community support workers. There's a lot a
(33:30):
lot of people, I mean a lot of organizations looking
for people to work in these homes, looking out for
people's disupposities. And I'm now I've been there now five
years and I absolutely love them.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Oh good, that's fantastic.
Speaker 4 (33:47):
Yeah, there's a huge difference between leaving school to go
and do something and dropping out, and I think that's
a petter distinction we should make. I'd be very worried
about these kids we're talking about tim that just dropping
out and for nothing and doing nothing from Pep's self
destructive activity. But it's very different if you're moving on
(34:10):
to a job, and maybe it does take a few
a few different tries. Like our last caller and fantastic
they're working in as a community support worker. I did
that work myself for a while and it is very
worthwhile work here.
Speaker 2 (34:24):
I think it does seem that there's a bit of
a change going on that people are that it's it's
now sort of seen as being quite a valid thing
to just get out and start earning. Because this texture
says the center you leave school, the sener you get
earning and learning school does not prepare you for work,
well necessarily, I would say, or owning and building your
own business. So yeah, this person left early, built and
(34:48):
sold a business and built another. So I think that's
the thing, and I don't mind that. But as long
as the kids who are leaving value the fact that
they've got, it's time to get cracking with the rest
of their life.
Speaker 4 (34:58):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (34:58):
Yeah, anyway, gosh, time flies. We've got a knock it
on the head there, John, But lovely chat with you.
Speaker 4 (35:06):
Be nice to see you again.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Yeah, and we'll look forward to look forward to next time.
Speaker 4 (35:10):
Cheers mate.
Speaker 2 (35:12):
That wraps the parents quite yes, because we're going to
be back shortly with Jason Pine. By the way, fascinating
discussion with a bunch of callers there in texts on
leaving school early and if you missed any of the
hour you want to go catch it then we love
you to go to the website News Talk said be
dot corded in the week in Collective. You search for
that and that audio will be up very shortly. We'll
be back to rap Sport in just a moment. News
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