May 16, 2024 • 52 mins
Amy first met Nada Taha 11 years ago during Nada's time on The Bobby Bones Show...so it's fun to catch up with someone that longtime listeners will know! Nada is a fellow cat lady that is outspoken about everything — marriage and divorce, being a female entrepreneur, mental health, and more!
Amy & Nada chat about:
Nada's TEDx Talk: Why "What do you do?" is the wrong question
Marrying young (Nada got married at 18) and divorce
Will either of them ever get married again?
Nada's trip to Egypt to better understand her roots
The work Nada has done to be vulnerable, real, authentic
Crying is good (Nada's infamous airport bathroom breakdown)
Evolving, energy & manifesting
You don't have to pick a lane (pursue all your passions, at once, despite societal norms)
Using anger and strength to build your story
Working through the past to strive in the now
Still figuring it out (it = this whole “life” thing)
4 Things Gratitude
Since Nada's time on the BBS, she's started two creative services agencies, hosted Soundcheck Radio and The Country Chart Show for Apple.
Keep up with her on IG: @NadaMeansNothin.
HOST: Amy Brown // RadioAmy.com // @RadioAmy
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:13):
Cast up thing, little food for yourself life. Oh it's pretty,
but hey, it's pretty beautiful, beautiful that for a little
more's exciting, said he your kick in with four Thing.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
With Amy Brown. Happy Thursday, Four Things Amy here, and
my guest today is Naa Taha. If you have been
a four Things listener, a Bobby Bone Show listener for
a long long time, then you would know Nada actually
printed awful little bio about you from your ted talk.
Nada decided to take a bet on herself in twenty
(00:53):
seventeen when she quit her job at iHeartRadio, where she
spent time as a music and digital director and five
years as on air personality on the nationally syndicated country
morning radio show The Bobby Bone Show, to start her
own company. So in twenty nineteen, she launched a second company,
creative and artist services firm Good Cop Bad Cop, a
(01:14):
co venture with Nesta Music founder Robbie Towns, which is
based in Nashville and London. N A graduated college at
eighteen with dual degrees Bachelor of Science and Journalism and
International Relations, and she moved to Nashville a few years
later to take on the role of digital director for five.
iHeartMedia radio stations. Dang, by the time you're like twenty,
(01:39):
you've done more with your liven than than I have
done at all. Which you are someone that got divorced
in their twenties, like married and divorced. And I saw
this quote the other day that said people that got
married and divorced in their twenties, like they had a spouse,
they filed paperwork, they found a lawyer, they did all
(02:02):
these things, Like meanwhile, I was just trying to figure
out what the heck to do with my hair. Oh my, So, like,
you lived a lot of life by the time you
were eighteen twenty. So this is just you know, some
of the stuff that they had in your ted X
talk little bio and I say little because everything that
was even written there was like not even enough to
sum you up, because you have lived a lot of lives.
(02:24):
And how young are you? I'm thirty five, thirty five.
My friend Scott, he taught me to ask that way,
how old are you? How young are young are you?
So I'm thirty five years old. Yeah, you've done a lot,
and we had a whole career together, and since then
you have gone on to this other career and then
landed yourself a dang ted X talk, yeah, which the
(02:47):
title of the talk is why what do you do?
Is the wrong question?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So not a what do you do?
Speaker 4 (02:57):
It's so crazy, Like I haven't been on a microphe
with you in so long.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It's been a long long time. I know, I'm glad
we're here and I'm excited to get like our own
personal TEDx talk with you on this question, Like why
is it what do you do? The wrong question? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
I mean the talk was, you know, there's a lot
in it, but the what do you do? Is such
a just superficial question because it just says so like
just kind of like how you asked how young are you?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Versus how old are you?
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Like switching that up changes the context so much because
a lot of times, I think, especially in our industry,
you walk into these events, you're around all.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
These people, and you're like what do you do? So
what do you do? What do you do?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
And it's like, well, I like to ask, like, what
are you excited about right now?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
What's giving you energy?
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Because what you do is not who you are, and
that is something that a lot of therapy to get to,
you know, and a lot of work and just like,
and I still struggle with it because I am like
a workaholic and I love what I do, but it's
not your identity. But it's not my identity, and I'm
still working on that.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
What gave you the idea to make this your TED talk?
Because that's a whole life to take on, Like coming
up with what you're going to talk about, because you
know you need to like wow people in a sense,
you're delivering this topic, this conversation and you want it
to go over well. So obviously you're passionate about that,
(04:25):
but how did you transform it into an entire talk?
Speaker 4 (04:28):
It was one of the hardest things I've ever done
in my entire many lives. They came to me in
July of last year, and the whole process is so
different than what I thought. And they work with you
on what your topic is. So I remember going through
a couple of different topics, Like I was like, what
about generational trauma?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Because I was like, in the middle of working.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
On that, I just had a couple of different ideas
and one of the through lines that kept coming up
was that as a woman in this industry, you're always
told to like stay in your lane, do one thing.
And I remember when I was like making the decision
to leave the show and start a company and do
all these things, everyone was like, you got to do
one or the other.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
You can't do all these things.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
And now I have my own radio show and I
have my own company, you can do multiple things. So
that was kind of the idea that kept coming back around.
So the talk was in November. It wasn't until like
August that I kind of came up with this idea
and writing it and putting it together.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
It was so hard because it wasn't like a scientific
experiment or something. It wasn't data. It was something that
is human. And so trying to express a human idea
to a lot of people in a way, like you said,
that's impactful, is really I mean, the imposter syndrome was strong.
(05:49):
And I remember I flew to Dallas to see Teresa,
my best friend, and we like spent I was like,
I just need a few days to like work.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
On this, to write it.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
We like post it noted her whole like all her mirrors,
like it was just like we had this whole system
and I was feeling great.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I was at the very end.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
I was trying to figure out how to write the
end and tie it all back together. And I watched
one Ted Talk It was Elizabeth Gilpin's first one, and
I burst into tears and I had a whole breakdown,
whole breakdown, Like the next day, went to the airport,
had a full panic attack in the lounge bathroom. I
was just straw because I was like, this doesn't feel
(06:26):
like me, Like I wrote this whole thing that feels
so disconnected from who I am, and I remember coming
home and restarting the whole thing, and then it felt
way more real to me and way more authentic as
I did to who you.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Were in that moment. Kat and I. She co hosts
my fifth Thing episode, So we had an episode on
Tuesday the aired, and we were going over some different
quotes and one of them was about losing touch with
who you used to be. And I feel like, because
you've lived so many different lives, but you've also wanted
to show up, is who you are in that moment.
I know you working on being authentic as like a
(07:03):
major thing, and I feel like that's part of who
you are now, Like you've gotten more vulnerable and you've
gotten in touch with that side, so I feel like
you're losing touch with that side of you that was
more shut off. Because you even saying I went to
the bathroom and started crying, some people that have maybe
known you during different seasons of your life would be like, not,
(07:24):
it doesn't cry. You know, it was a side. I mean,
I'm sure that you did cry at some point, but
you just had this demeanor about you that was tougher
than that. Not that it's not tough to cry now, right.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
No, no, And you have definitely seen both sides of
that of me, and that change because when we first met,
I was so closed off.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
I was called the ice Queen.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
I definitely did not have any vulnerability and didn't tap
into that at all. And then growth time you get
thrown a few things and you're like, well, this isn't
working for me anymore. You know, I can't connect to people.
I can't actually have an impact if I can't get
down into it.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
And I think, like for someone like me.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Who struggles with anxiety depression, you know all sorts of things.
I sometimes will hate my brain and will be like, God,
I hate my brain, and then I have to remind
myself that like that brain is also what gets me
going and what is doing what I'm doing, you know,
and helping me get there, And so yeah, it was
(08:33):
a lot of work. I got a coach and I
started working with her for a few years, and she
helped me with my TED talk, and just the process
of getting it into my body was like we would
do hikes in the morning, like five mile hikes, and
I would literally have the paper and like read my
TED talk as I was like hiking, because you can't
you don't have notes. It wasn't a teleprompter, there's nothing.
(08:54):
It's an eighteen minute monologue. And I wanted to make
sure not only that I presented it well, but that
I lived.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
What I was saying.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
And I couldn't give a talk if I wasn't actually
real about it and what that wasn't my experience.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
And so that was like a.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Big piece of it too, was like really working on
those things, really working on getting vulnerable and real and
authentic and realizing that yeah, it's okay to have feelings
and it's scary, but like that's what makes me who
I am.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I feel like I'd have to have it worked into
my eighteen minute monologue like some sort of joke for
the minute I mess up and I have no idea
what I'm supposed to say next, Like did you have
like a default or did you just roll with it
and trust the process. It was breathing.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
We worked on breathing, and I remember the morning of
Bridget and I worked on multiple different ways of breathing
throughout the talk, and that was what saved me. Was
like I was standing up there and if I ever
needed a second, I would just like take a deep breath, yes,
and like.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
You could hear it too.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
When I'm watching it back, you can hear me like
do these deep breaths, and it would just like ground me,
bring me back.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
There was like.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
One point in the talk where I lost my place
and I just kind of picked up from another place
and then I was able to like breathe through it
and get back to it. And it felt so like invigorating,
because you know you talk about like meditation and breathing
and all these things and you're like whatever, and it works,
(10:31):
And it really did work to like get me back
in my body. Calm me, let me know that, like
I'm here doing this and trusting my body to remember
all the things that like we had worked on.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I feel like breath is one of the most powerful
things because it's with us at all times. Like there's
other tools we can have where we might need to
have access to something else or be alone to work
through something with our breath is always right here with us.
It's in our person. So there's no excuse not to
use breath to our benefit because it can be so powerful.
(11:05):
If you were to sum up the talk and like
an elevator pitch, we can do that here. I'm going
to link the Ted talk in the show notes because
I want people to go watch the entire thing, but
just some highlights from it, and then also your favorite
part of it, like if you could only pull one chunk, Yeah,
what would it be.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I have so many different versions of the talk and
so many different notes, and one of the things that
always stayed in the talk every variation was I believe
that everyone has the ability to pursue all of their
passions all at once.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
And that's really important to me.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Because I feel like we're told do one thing, or
stick to one thing, or stay in your lane, and
I believe that we're meant to be doing other things
and we're meant to kind of explore and be curious.
I'm going to have stay curious as a tattoo, and
that's been something that Bridget taught me and I've always
kind of stuck with that is and I talk about
this in my talk that like wesh our kids to
(12:01):
try everything, but then we don't do that for ourselves.
And so I think that giving yourself that permission of like, Okay,
I can do this, and I can do this, and
I can like to do this, and I can do
this for free or for work or for pleasure or
for hobby, Like that's okay too.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
My favorite part.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
There's a few and I bring up a few different things,
but I think, like the very beginning is really cool
because I talk about being an immigrant and being Egyptian
and I've never.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Talked about that before.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Really, the biggest thing with my TED talk was that
it gave me a voice and it helps me find
my voice. And it's ironic because I talk for a
living and you get this, but like talking and then
having a real voice is two completely different things. And
that was the first time that I felt really aligned
with I'm going to say the things that are important
(12:52):
to me and I'm going to talk about them and
I'm not going to be afraid of what other people
are going to say.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
That's way. It's good you had the bathroom break down.
It's because you were you needed to get to where
you were going to be up there doing what was
right for you.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
And I tell you how funny that was. I was
in the Delta Lounge bathroom, literally like locked in a stall, crying,
like full blown panic attack, can't breathe, like texting trees,
so like can you come back and pick me up?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Like all the things, and.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
The bathroom attendant every time someone would walk in, she'd
be like, they're all empty except for that one.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And I'm like, oh my not. Some woman's still in there.
She's still crying, and I'm like, I know it was.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
It was bad. It was bad.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
That's good you needed to release and let it out.
I mean some people have to do appointment cries where
they do lock themselves in and like, this is my
moment to let it all out, Like gosh, it's the
worst when you know that this would be such a
good time to get it out and you feel like
it could all go, but then you have to like
suck it up because you can't cry at that moment,
and it's like, oh, I feel like this is just
like wasted. This could have been very therapeutic and now
(13:55):
I can't do it. So I'm gonna have to like
appointment cry later.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I have to get it otur myself to do that.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
For many many, many years and never had an appointment,
So I would just suppress.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
It until you explode eventually. So what would happen with that?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I would get exhausted. It was exhaustion for me.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
That would like cause me to be angry or a
little irritated or whatever, and then I would feel it
coming on.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I could tell when it was coming, and then I.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Would just like burst into tears and like hide in
my bed, get under my weighted blanket, look for my cat.
There was no appointment, and that was wrong. And I
learned that the hard way.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
When you were making the shift to like leaving your
career at iHeart, which was a long one, longer than
just the ten years a handful of years of the
Bobby Bone Show, but you decided to completely change it up.
What was that like for you? Was it scary? Was
it exciting? Was it both? And how did you survive it.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
It was both.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
I mean, I started iHeart when I was eighteen, and
then I grew so much next to you and next
to Bobby, And like, I mean, I will say this
that when I started my show at Apple, I texted
Bobby and I was like, I learned so much from you.
And I remember starting my own show and being like
looking back at some of the things that I learned
from being on that show with you guys. I mean,
(15:15):
it took three years for me to get back into radio,
started a company, and you know, went down this other pass,
and I don't think I would have ever gotten back
to it had I not started a company, because.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
That experience is insane.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
There's nothing that could teach you the way that starting
a company teaches you. Just everything you know. And I
am not a finance person. I'm not a like calendar person.
So I had to learn a lot and just kind
of get out of my comfort zone. But I also
created it in a way that stayed true to myself
of like I'm still a talent, I'm still a host,
(15:51):
I still do these things. I was doing stuff for Soccer,
like on camera work and doing that and keeping my
creative spirit alive Like, for me, when I can't be creative,
that's when I fall into my deepest depressions. And like
when I can't connect to source and actually get that
creativity going, that's when I'm the worst. So it was
important for me to listen to myself and be like, yeah,
(16:13):
I can start a company and I can do this,
but I could also do this even though people were
really against it.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
So that's when the story started for you of you're
not going to have a lane.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Yeah, I think I've always not had a lane. I
just don't think I ever.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
It iHeart for ten years. Yeah, you got to put
yourself in a lane. I think that maybe venturing out.
I know that you were one of the hardest working
people ever, Like you weren't like officially even a part
of the show yet, but you were one of the
first people there every morning. You didn't even have to
be and you showed up.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
If I was in the corner, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
And you sat in the corner and you did your
thing until Bobby was like, wait, what is up with this,
Like we need to hire this girl, because he recognized
like the strengths you had, the value you would bring.
I do think that you were able to do a
lot of different things. Like you've had a lot of skins,
but you were probably still sort of in one lane
ish and now you've expanded to where you're doing so
(17:07):
many different things, and I think that that's encouraging. Back
to the Ted Talk too, of like, well, if you
were to sit here and someone to say, well, what
do you do? Like that question would be so so
hard loaded, and there's so many other exciting things or
ways for you to answer that type of question and
go about who Nada is and from the beginning of
(17:27):
where your family came from to what you did this morning.
You have so much to offer in there. And when
it comes to your family history and the Ted Talk
stage being the first time that you talk about it,
why was that important for you to start it off
that way? I know, giving that a voice, but share
with people why that's important. And when it comes to
(17:58):
your family history and the Ted Talk stage being the
first time that you talk about it, why was that
important for you to start it off that way? I know,
giving that a voice, but yeah, share with people why
that's important.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
There was a.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Lot of generational cultural trauma that I was working through.
I had been strange for my dad for like nine years,
and then starting working with Bridget, I reconnected with him,
and I think there was a lot of resentment and
anger and there still is.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Every time I go to my energy dealer, I'm like,
just like, what do.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
You Feel'm like angry, you know, and we've talked about this.
It's just like I'm angry at myself. I'm angry at
my parents. Sometimes I'm angry at my culture. I'm angry
at a lot of things. And it's finding the strength
to be like, okay, but this is part of my story,
and this is what got me to this point. I
never really considered myself a woman of color for a
(18:50):
long time. I grew up in Georgia, I grew up
in Tennessee, you know, like I worked in country radio.
I was always just not a and I think beyond that,
I also just kind of straight away from my culture
because I had married an Egyptian guid and gotten divorced.
You know, there was a lot of religious trauma and
things that I just wanted to like again suppress, get
(19:12):
away from. And that was the way that I did it.
I didn't acknowledge my culture at all. And then in
the Lord there's shame around it for sure, Shame, resentment, anger,
all of the things. And I think as I started
to learn about myself, I ended up going back to
Egypt as an adult for the first time and spending
time with my aunts and like learning about my grandfather
(19:35):
who I never met, who actually was a creative and
you know, things like that that I was like, Okay,
there's pieces of me here, and representation matters. There's no
other Egyptian woman in country radio, and so I've seen
other women of color that will come up to me
and be like, I've never seen anyone in this space.
(19:55):
And I think that's important, and I think it's important,
especially in country to expand that and make it more
inclusive and let people know that you can come into
this genre and that it's not just white, and that
there is some melanin in here and we can have
a diversity of perspective. And so for me, ironically, I
(20:15):
thought that the beginning of my story was that, and
it was being in a first generation immigrant coming from Egypt.
I never really understood the depth of that until I
went back to Egypt and understood what it was like
and thinking about how my parents, who at thirty something
I'm thirty five now, I don't have kids, I don't
have a house. I'll have a husband. Like imagine being
(20:36):
married and bringing two kids across the world where you
don't know anybody, going from Egypt to Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Like, come on, there was a little.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Bit of Okay, I kind of understand my parents now,
and I give them a little bit of grace and
compassion for what they went through because that would have
been really hard. It is a part of me that
I kept suppressed for a long time, and I'm glad
that I'm giving it a voice now.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I think when we face that sort of stuff and
we dig a little deeper than we have appreciation for Yeah,
like you were saying appreciation for what your parents went through,
appreciation for where we came from, and for you, you
had to travel a long distance to get there. But
I'm sure that's probably one of the most impactful trips
of your entire life, if not like the number one.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
It made my touch talk.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
It was like at the crux of it, it was
a catalyst for it, for sure. I went in March,
and I got offered the talk in July. I believe
in divine timing and I do think that that was
the universe being like, okay, you're ready to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
You mentioned energy healers to just explain to people what
that is in case they're own. Yeah, they're not familiar
because people have different ones, like some touch, some don't touch,
Like what did you just do?
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Mine is we talk, So it's very therapeutic.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
She is wonderful.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
She also has a history in the music industry, so
she gets it.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
She does do energy work at the end of a session.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
So like, for example, I'll go in and she'll be like,
what level you know, Like we'll talk about something and
she'll be like, Okay, you're feeling angry.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
What level angry are you?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
And I'm like I'm a nine. And then she'll do
some energy work and I'll feel so much better and
she'll be like, what level are you now?
Speaker 4 (22:14):
And I'm like, I'm like a two and I'm just calm.
I don't know what she does. I don't know how
she does it, but I believe in energy, and I
believe that we're all moved by energy, and that having
a positive energy begets a positive energy. So if I
walk into a room and I'm positive and I'm manifesting
certain things that light and energy is going to come
(22:36):
back to me. But if I walk into a room
with suppressed energy or angry energy or whatever, that's going
to come back to me too. And I've seen it
happen where I'm in a bad headspace or I'm depressed, right,
I don't feel like I'm getting what I need and whatever,
no door's open for me. But the second I readjust
my energy, I'll get calls and texts immediately, and it'll
(22:56):
be things that I've been waiting for, things I didn't
even know were there, and it just kind of resets everything.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
You mentioned your relationship with your dad and how that
was fractured for a long time. Since you brought it up,
we'll talk about that energy and what that has done,
going and revisiting a relationship that needed repair. I feel
like a lot of people listening can relate to a
broken relationship with someone a dad or a mom that's
(23:24):
like a main figure, but it could be with a
sibling or any kind of broken relationship. Talk through what
that experience was like for you and what you would
encourage people to do, because I know that that wasn't
an easy thing for you to seek out and do.
But it seems like the fruit from that has been beautiful.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
I would say it's still a little fractured, maybe a
little less fractured, but I mean it was broken, broken.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
But even the fruit within you, oh, because you've been
able to It's not just that the relationship is toll
blown repaired. So just rephrase that to say that sometimes
it can be healing within ourselves too.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
That's what I needed to figure out was I think
I went through a period of time where I was like,
I have got to fix what's going on with my
dad so then I could reach the next level in
my career, like I needed to beat this boss level.
And what I learned was that it had nothing to
do with him. It still has nothing to do with him,
you know. It has everything to do with me and
(24:23):
the work that I do and how I feel about it,
and what boundaries I can create and what energy I
can protect of my own boundaries were a big thing,
and I think a lot of times were built to
just believe that you have to have a certain relationship
with your family, and I don't believe that that's true.
Like I have stronger relationships with some of my closest
(24:45):
people in my life, and I think those are just
as important as family relationships. I mean, I went through
a period of time where I had to be okay
with if something happened to my dad and I haven't
spoken to him in eight nine years?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Am I okay with this? And I was.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
I'd gotten to a point where I was like, I'm good.
I don't need to say anything else to him. I
don't have anything else to you know, do I think
I was probably wrong? I think that there probably was
more there. And as I'm growing and as I'm giving
him a little bit more compassion and time and space,
even though I'm not requiring it, it's kind of happening
(25:23):
on its own. And I do believe that that's helping
me to understand myself better. Going to Egypt was a
big one, like understanding the immigration piece of it, Like
how hard that must have been for them. My energy
healer Trina, recently told me that she thinks that most
of my trauma was between one and like one and
(25:44):
two years old. I don't remember much of my childhood
because it's suppressed trauma.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Well that's such an early age too, but such an age, yeah,
between birth and three. Those years are so important, and
I know it's an adoptive mom raising kids who so
their parents, or at least my son. My daughter had
a different experience with her mom, but from Earth to three,
his basic needs were not met. And Hayes mom was
(26:11):
with him a couple of those months, but I think
she was under a lot of stress. And then when
he said an orphanage and his time is being split
between fifteen other babies in the room, his needs were
not met. So I would imagine for you, if your
parents are immigrating and during that time under a lot
of stress, then your needs were not met.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Yeah, And I think there's a guilt and a shame
of admitting that I didn't get those needs met because
there wasn't some red flag abusive behavior in our household.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
But that is.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Neglect, even if they didn't mean it. We immigrated in
Ra was nine months old. My mom's mom died months later,
and so I can only imagine my first year of life,
you know, or my one to two age being neglected emotionally,
because how could she even deal with two kids, you know,
(27:02):
and her mother passing and moving across the world and
all of these things, and so it is interesting to
kind of relinquish that and be like, huh, okay, maybe
it wasn't my fault, or maybe you know, it wasn't
their fault. And I'm growing and I can be okay now,
and I'm not yet. I'm still still figuring it out,
(27:25):
and I'm still trying to grow and learn and see
how I can learn about my emotions and my boundaries
and listening to them and giving them a voice. Still
really really, really freaking hard.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
What's great is our brains do what they need to
take care of us. So during that time, you developed
neuropathways that we're going to protect you for your needs
that weren't met. But then as we age were like,
oh shoot, well, I know my brain was just trying
to protect me and keep me safe, but this I
don't need to live in this fear anymore. This flight freeze,
(28:00):
whatever the survival mode is that you may gravitate towards,
but it's so beautiful once you do start to see
new neuropathways being built and you are evolving, you're changing.
It just takes the repetition to get there, but you
know that it's possible because you've already witnessed the change.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Here's my voice was the biggest one.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
See, I've always seen you as strong, powerful. What age
were you working on the show, So you're you twenties, Yeah,
mid twenties. So I saw you as someone I was like, gosh,
she's got her voice. So it's interesting that one's perception
may not be that person's reality.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Yeah, I think I've always been confident. I've always been
bullish and you know, kind of ask for forgiveness later
kind of person and in certain capacities, especially in my work,
because think about it, I to suppress my emotion and
to survive, I went straight into work. I mean I
did nothing else but work, and so in those moments,
(29:06):
I was very strong and very assertive, and I knew,
you know, decisive and all of those things. But then
when I would be by myself, I couldn't decide what
to eat. I was always in a freeze mode where I,
like would be paralyzed from anxiety. And that's still something
that happens to me today. It's interesting, but like, finding
a voice that is true and authentic and like again,
(29:30):
aligned with your emotions is so different than what I
was doing on the surface level.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
And also thank you for seeing me in that way.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Just like you would look to me of like, oh,
I wish I could be more emotional and vulnerable, like
I mean, we were both doing that.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
I was like, you're so soft and kind and emotions like,
we're so hard and awesome. I think that's why we
like gravitated towards each other, because I was like, man,
I want to be softer like Amy, you know, and
I want to be so in tune to myself and
just emotional.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
And I mean you would cried.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
A lot you did, but it was it was great.
And I remember thinking, man, I wish I could do that,
and I just couldn't know.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
We were kind of the opposite. Whereas I could go home,
I could probably figure out what to eat and the
basic things like that, but I couldn't set a boundary
or be assertive. For the life of me. I would
him and around it and avoid it at all crazy
And now I'm better at that. And then you're a
little softer, a little softer, I'm edgier. So what were
(30:32):
you like to be in a relationship with during that time?
I see work you but personal you like, how how
has your work that you've done on yourself. We don't
even to make it a romantic relationship. It can even
be in a friendship. How has it changed how you
show up in that way so much?
Speaker 4 (30:50):
I'm setting better boundaries that are more intentional, and I'm
able to allow myself to say no more and allow
myself to say like, I'm very open, I'm very much like, hey,
I'm having a panic attack, or hey I'm having an
anxious day. I can't link up right now, and that's
important in my relationships, romantic relationships. I still struggle. I
(31:15):
think I'm definitely way more vulnerable than I used to be.
I communicate a little bit better. I still could work
on communicating my emotions. That's a big one is being
able to say I don't feel good about this, or
you know, this isn't working for me or whatever. I
don't think I set the right boundaries in my romantic relationships,
(31:35):
and I think that's still something that I can really
work on. Is that vulnerability within a romantic partnership. And
I think there is guilt, shame, all of the things
surrounding my previous marriage and that ending and that and
me being like, well I don't need this. I mean,
I don't think I would ever get married again. So
(31:55):
working through that and figuring out do I want to
get married again? Do I want want to do this again?
How vulnerable am I willing to get? And I can
talk about being vulnerable, but if I'm not fully vulnerable
in a romantic relationship where that person is my mirror,
then there's still some work to be done.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
The original marriage was that and arranged. No, Oh, why
do I think that because I'm era When I was young?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Bad?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
No, it's finest, wasn't you did it? All knew each other?
Speaker 4 (32:28):
I mean you were eighteen. I know I met him
in college. I was fifteen when I got to college.
I met him the first semester. He was my first boyfriend. Again,
resentment towards my dad for not letting me live my life,
but yeah, I was my first boyfriend. And we got
engaged the day after we graduated college. So I was
eighteen and we got married that following.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Year, and your parents were fine with that.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
My parents didn't like it. My mom definitely told me,
you're going to change a lot between now and when
you're twenty five. She was right, and I changed even
more from twenty five to thirty five.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
No, so it wasn't arranged.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I don't regret it, but I would not do that again.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Right, And I who that was a whole nother life
like before I met you. It's kind of like I
met you too long after that, but it was like
a different you were totally for person. It's not like
one of your Yeah, it's one of your favorite things
to I mean to talk about.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
You've recently gone through divorce. Do you feel like you've
changed a million times over?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I think so. I think we both have, and we're
still working through who we are in this new chapter
as co parents together and co parenting dating. I think
that he'll probably get married again, and even before me,
and so similar to you, like, I don't know will
I get married again? I don't know. Would I like that?
(33:50):
I think so, but there's just so many unknowns. I
feel like I'm working through so many other things at
the moment, Like.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
After you go through a divorce, you feel less reliant
on that idea, at least for me, I don't want
to project because I grew up thinking wait till marriage,
get married. You don't really like doing it, you know
what I mean? Have kids whatever, and that whole idea
changed for me.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah, I definitely went through a grieving process of grieving
this life that I thought I was going to have
since I was ten years old. Yep, so far I
had achieved that. I mean, I think the first hump
we challenged in that narrative was not being able to
get pregnant. So then that was sort of like, well,
wait a second, this is not how I envisioned it.
(34:35):
By twenty five, I was gonna have four kids. You know,
you had it all mapped out, and by twenty five
we were just now starting our life together. I feel like,
at twenty five, I'm married late, which is weird to
say now because any twenty five year old i'd be like,
you're good, Yeah, it's totally okay. But I definitely planned
(34:55):
on being married right out of college, which would for me.
If you graduate college like a normal person, you'd be
like twenty to do that. I did graduate and get married,
yeah at eighteen, So yeah, you're a little different timeline.
But yeah, I think that depending on where you grow up,
you're presented with this story book life and you sort
(35:16):
of abide by it, chase it, go after it. Every
boyfriend I had it was like, well, what's it going
to be like when we get married. It's like my
brain automatically jumped to that, And so I think the
difference now is if I'm going to date somebody, my
first question is not am I going to marry this person?
Or what's our life going to be like when we're married.
(35:36):
It's more in the moment and more present and more
able to see, Okay, what could this look like? Just
as is I still think there is hope for marriage,
and I think that there could be something beautiful in
that type of union, but it's just not my first
question anymore. Whereas you know, from seventh grade to senior
(35:57):
year of college, it was well could I marry this person?
Because that was the goal. It's not the goal anymore.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Goal's connection exactly.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
And I think as hard as divorces, and definitely harder
for you with kids and having been married a lot longer,
but still just at the basis, divorce is difficult because
you grieve this idea that you had and what you
thought it was going to be, and then it opens
up this like beautiful opportunity to connect with someone without
any strings attached, without any long term assessments or anything
(36:31):
like that. It's like, who is this person? Do I
like hanging out with them? Do I like spending time
with them? And then it's like, oh, I can actually
connect with this human without being like.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Are you gonna put a ring on it? You know,
like how big is a ring going to be? What
are we gonna do?
Speaker 4 (36:44):
I'm gonna get you know, And it's just like that
faded away from me. I mean, I definitely thought I
was gonna have I mean, you might be shocked, but
a lot of kids married that whole life, and I
guess I'm lucky that I was able to restart at
a young age.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
I was twenty one when I got divorced.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
It was kind of like I was still a baby,
and I was able to reassess all of that and
I'm grateful for it.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
And now you just have lots of cats, just one,
I know, but you know you and I both would
have more cats.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
When you got a cat, I was so excited.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Do you think that doing the Ted talk, even just
writing it out, say you had never spoken it publicly
to anybody else like you did it solely for yourself,
it would have been as impactful for you and just
extremely therapeutic.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Yeah, I've always been a writer. I've always loved it.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
I think the process of and you know, what I've
learned recently is that I'm guilty of self abandonment, which
is interesting because I've always felt like I had abandonment issues.
But it's not just other people. It's me and not
being able to do things just for me.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yeah, expand on that self abandonment.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Oh yeah, the way my mind was blown when I
figured this out, when Trina figured this out with me.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
But basically, it's like, you think of people a bit.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
You this idea that this relationship might end, This person
might abandon you, your dad, your mom, your whatever, friends
even but the truth is you might be self abandoning,
which means like you are neglecting yourself, whether it's the
decisions you make, the boundaries you fail to set, or
for example, for me, if I want to go on
a walk, I'll text you you want to go on
(38:22):
a walk, and I will okay myself to go on
a walk if it's with you, because then I'm like,
I'm going on a.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Walk with Amy, So it's for Amy, it's not for me.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
But to leave my work or to leave my space,
or to you know, do something for myself. It's so difficult,
and I didn't know that. I would just have these
anxiety attacks when I would have time when I wasn't
back to back meetings or events or whatever, and I
would just have time, and I'd be like, I want
to read or I want to write, or I want
to go on a walk. But then I would just
(38:51):
get paralyzed and couldn't move because apparently I don't like
doing things for myself.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
So I have to work on that.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
And I think the talk there was a deadline, there
was a in person talk that had to happen, so
I had to get through the writing of it. It
was really therapeutic because it pushed me past these blockages
that I had of I'm an impostor, I'm not an expert.
Why am I giving a tech talk? What am I
talking about?
Speaker 3 (39:17):
You know? Who am I to say anything.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
I haven't done anything in my life, Whereas you know,
some people that I know would be like, You've done
so much, You've lived so many lives, like you have
all these things going on. I'm just like, I don't
see myself in that way at all. I still don't.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
I'm still like I haven't done anything.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
But even after you've done it and you see the
Ted talk back and you see what everybody had to
say and all the people that have been so incredibly
proud of.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
You, yes, I still am like I haven't done anything yet.
There's just a whole lot of stuff that even after
a Ted talk, I'm still working on, which was crazy
for me because I was like, well, then maybe my
Tet talk was not like, you know, I'm like not
being the person that I was when I gave that
Ted talk. But it's like that's good, right, It's I'm growing.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, we're constantly constant. Like if you're not growing, you're dead. Yeah,
not dead. I'm fine. Yeah, as long as you still
want to be here, then that's a good thing. And
it was.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
I will say I think writing was very therapeutic, and
I would. I mean, you journal a lot, so you
understand the importance of that. I think that is in
giving myself credit and being able to say those things
out loud, sitting here and being able to talk about
giving a Ted talk or what I did or how
I've grown, that's big. That's a reminder, an affirmation of
(40:35):
you've done it, You've did it.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Talk about the Deon Sanders part of your Ted Talk.
Talk about the Deon Sanders part of your Ted Talk.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
It was actually Breeland who I work with as a
creative director and a manager.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
And we watched a lot of sportstocks.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Sports stocks are like our thing, and we had just
watched the Deon Sanders stock and I remember thinking like, wow,
that sounds familiar. I think it was really important to
find tangible examples like the Taylor Swift example. Deon Sanders,
Michael Jordan and Dion Sanders, if you don't know, played
two sports. He played at football and baseball at the
(41:22):
same time. Like he literally played for two major league
sports sporting leagues at the same time.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
And he got so much crap for.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
It because people like, you can't do both of those
things just because you're good at it, doesn't you can
play you know, football and baseball and you're gonna neglect
and all these things. And at the end he was
successful at both and he was like, no, I'm gonna
do what I want to do and I'm capable of
doing both of these things.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
It's like Angel Reese.
Speaker 4 (41:47):
She gets a lot of crap from people for how
she is a celebrity and an athlete, and why not.
Why can't you create a brand for yourself. Why can't
you create a story for yourself.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
And then live that out and be authentic.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
So it was really inspiring for me to have watched
that doc and again, divine timing, it was like one
of those things I just watched.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
I was like wow, because it's like, if you were
to ask answer that question like what do you do,
you'd be like, well, yeah, I'm proathly here, I'm a
pro athly here, and now.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
I'm a coach.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
Now I'm a successful coach. Like there's so many things
that you can be. I mean, you could go through
life and be a million different things.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
You're eighteen years old and you have three words you
can tell yourself. What would they be? Because I was
asked this question the other day and my three words
are in alignment with what you said. Dion's answer was
to people, So I'll tell you mine and you can
think of this. But you've just got three words that
you can tell your younger self. And I guess it's
like graduation season. So it popped back up as a
(42:48):
question somewhere. I think it's been a lot of places,
but just out of curiosity. You're eighteen, you're graduating. What
do you tell yourself? And the three words that came
to mind for me were I am capable or if
I'm telling it to my eighteen you are capable. Because
I think there was so much back then that I
didn't think that I was capable of doing. I didn't
(43:09):
believe in myself in any way, shape or form, and
so that's something that gosh, I'm that's something I'm rewiring
my brain for now at forty three. Imagine if I
had started that process at eighteen, that'd have been great.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
So do you know what three words you would tell
do not marry, don't get married? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Probably, honestly, probably No.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
I think for me, the biggest thing that I struggle
with is being seen and heard. So maybe those I
don't know. I'd have to really think about. That's a
great question. I'm not good at those questions because I
have suppressed so much of my childhood and so much
of like that time in my life.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
How about reframing it. It's not that you're not good
at those questions, is that you are at them yet.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
I'm not good at them yet. Yeah, So I love it?
Speaker 2 (44:03):
Or you're you're working on working better.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Maybe I mean yeah, I mean like maybe it's like
don't rush or something or like three words not.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
No, I can't think of a third RD.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
I got you though, do not rush, not rush.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
I thought you're eighteen. But I'm not smart. I thought
you were a journalism.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
I mean, I think like everything that was meant to
happen has happened. And as I look back on all
of the things that have transpired, I don't I don't
believe in regret, and I believe in compounding your experiences.
So I don't look at any of the experiences that
I've had in my life as you know, Oh, I'm
not doing that anymore. So that was a waste. It's
(44:44):
more like your compounding experiences. So I look at me
getting married at eighteen and divorced at eighteen and graduating
college and then you know, working in this or well.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Divorced at twenty one. Give yourself a hurt.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Yeah yeah, good. A couple of years, couple of years.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
It wasn't It wasn't a Kim It wasn't a Kim
k marriage. But like truly, it's like those things all
led me to being where I am now, and as
much as I sometimes hate my brain, I also have
to love it and I also have to have some
compassion for it and be.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Like, you may have some good decisions.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Sometimes, you know, and those things are still important for
me to have shaped who I am and the boundaries
I've created, because I don't think I would have had
the same boundaries had I not gone through.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Most of those things. I'm gonna think on those three words.
I'm gonna get back to you.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Okay, you can do that.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
I love that question.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Well, let's do four things gratitude, because I know anxiety
is something you've mentioned and sometimes it can take you over,
but it's scientifically impossible to be anxious when you are
in gratitude. So if you're taking time to be present
with gratitude, then your brain is focusing on that thank yous.
(45:52):
So what are four things that you are currently thankful
for today? My cat?
Speaker 3 (45:57):
I love my cat. He's like my little bestie.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
I am grateful for the relationship that I'm trying to
create with myself and those conversations that I'm trying to
have within my inner self. Third thing, ooh of my
best friend Teresa's coming to visit. I'm going to see
her in a few days. I'm really thankful she taught
me unconditional love.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Very thankful for her always.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
And that's one of those examples too. Of your family
can come from anywhere, Like you're so many of us
are tied to certain relationships because we're like, oh, it's
blood and blood is the most important thing, and it's
like not always.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
I'm also grateful for online shopping. Talk about therapy, great therapy.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
So that can be one of those coping mechanisms that
can actually like literally laying it to more anxiety. What yes,
if you're over shopping, it's one of those things that
you can think is relaxing because it feels good and
it's therapeutic in the moment, but that can lead to
more anxious thoughts like shopping too much, binging too much.
(47:07):
Like if you're doing it in small doses, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
Personality, So I'm not surprised.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Yeah, I'm grateful for you.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
Is that better?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
No? No, no, you should. I'm thankful for your shopping.
You always have good fashion and I'll borrow things. I
guess we've always done that though, because of us. I'm
having a year of less, so I'm not really shopping,
which has also been therapeutic in itself.
Speaker 4 (47:27):
Urging is the best. I do that regularly, and it's
so great.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I would imagine you'd have to as much as you shop.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
Well, you don't always have to buy things that you shop.
You could just you know, rouse peruse.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
What are you thankful for? What are you grateful for?
Speaker 2 (47:41):
I'm thankful for you coming over in this conversation. I
am thankful for I just had Mother's Day with the kids,
and I think it's my sixth one with them, and
my first one where it's a full we're fully divorced.
So I didn't know what to expect because their kids
(48:02):
and they had been with their dad the previous week
and then I got them back, and so I thought, well,
they may not even know it's Mother's Day. Yeah, I mean,
of course I'm going to remind them. Okay, it's Mother's Day.
All I want is for everybody to organize, make donate
piles and dumpster piles like That's all I wanted was
for them to contribute to the decluttering that's happening at
my house right now, which they did do that, and
(48:24):
I was really sweet. They both participated, but they both
had gifts for me and a card with a sweet note,
and I know that Ben organize that it's very kind,
and they both had it wrapped in the same Happy
Birthday wrapping paper that I'm sure they got at their dad's.
So that'll be my third thing as I'm thankful that
Ben and I have a relationship where I'm going to
(48:46):
make sure he's taken care of on Father's Day and
make sure that the kids are still thinking of him,
and that he's going to make sure that they're still
thinking of me and knowing how to show appreciation and
respect for the other parents. So that is something that's
just happened recently that I'm definitely thinkfulfore and it's not
lost on me that not everybody has that situation. It
(49:07):
might be that the kids come back from the other parents'
house and they're like, yeah, right, I didn't do anything.
I don't Yeah, why would I do that? We don't
have a good relationship, And then the kids end up
doing nothing and then the mom's like, okay, well in
that case, you just have to understand and mother's is
all these holidays is stuff that they're designed to just
make a bunch of money and spend a bunch of money,
so it doesn't have to be about like what is gotten,
(49:29):
but just even like words and knowing that the kids
acknowledged it and that they were excited when they woke up.
That's the first things they gave me. And then I
guess the fourth thing would be I'm trying to look
forward more like what do I have exciting that's in
the works, What do I have because I can get
very stuck in the moment, and I'm trying to be
(49:49):
more of a planner of exciting things. And I'm working
on a little trip for myself. Oh I can't which
I don't do much any of that either, but I'm
excited about that, and I'm excited for that growth. Yes,
and then also I mean practicing it to build that
new pathway to where it'd be normal for me to
(50:11):
plan things for myself and get excited because I mean
I get excited about staying home, same and doing nothing nothing, Yeah, same,
but we got to get out do things from time
to time.
Speaker 4 (50:22):
It is cool to have had this s friend trip
for so long, I know, and then to have seen
each other grow.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
I'm picturing us like even ten years from now having
a similar sit down but a completely different conversation.
Speaker 4 (50:34):
I'm excited for that. I'm excited to see how far
we go and.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Then we'll be like, so what is it that you do?
I'd be like, oh, duh, we don't ask that question.
We both probably lived lots of lives but asked that
question anymore. Thank you for reminding us that we don't
have to stay in a lane and it can look
a lot like a lot of different things. And thank
you for you sharing some of your growth and even
(50:59):
what you would consider to be your weaknesses, but they're
also who you are and what makes you you. And
it's going to be exciting to see how you exercise
that muscle and become stronger in those areas. And you
know it's a give and take, it's a flow, like
we're not gonna all have it right.
Speaker 4 (51:14):
I'm most excited that I can say welcome to my
touch talk and like mean it.
Speaker 3 (51:21):
I always wanted to say that.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
For anybody else listening, it sounds like, yeah, it was therapeutic.
So you can, even if you've never been invited by
Ted anybody to come speak, just write your own talk,
practice it on hikes, practice it with your breath work,
deliver the eighteen minute monologue on your own. Nobody else
has to hear it, and apparently it'll do wonders for you.
(51:43):
So thank you. Nada Everything Nada can be found at well,
I'm going to say your Instagram. But you may have
other websites that you want to send people to. But
I'm sure that you have.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
The link tree. No, just no, I know a link tree?
Well am I God? Link to my tut talk on
my cat. No, but you have good Apple show. Yeah,
you could listen to Apple Music Radio.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
At Nada means nothing is the handle and that's because
well nada in Spanish means nothing. Yes, but it's nothing.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
Nothing, no G. They wouldn't let me add the G.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
Let's say, I think it's cutter that way, not it
means nothing.
Speaker 3 (52:18):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Bye
Cast up thing, little food for yourself life. Oh it's pretty,
but hey, it's pretty beautiful, beautiful that for a little
more's exciting, said he your kick in with four Thing.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
With Amy Brown. Happy Thursday, Four Things Amy here, and
my guest today is Naa Taha. If you have been
a four Things listener, a Bobby Bone Show listener for
a long long time, then you would know Nada actually
printed awful little bio about you from your ted talk.
Nada decided to take a bet on herself in twenty
(00:53):
seventeen when she quit her job at iHeartRadio, where she
spent time as a music and digital director and five
years as on air personality on the nationally syndicated country
morning radio show The Bobby Bone Show, to start her
own company. So in twenty nineteen, she launched a second company,
creative and artist services firm Good Cop Bad Cop, a
(01:14):
co venture with Nesta Music founder Robbie Towns, which is
based in Nashville and London. N A graduated college at
eighteen with dual degrees Bachelor of Science and Journalism and
International Relations, and she moved to Nashville a few years
later to take on the role of digital director for five.
iHeartMedia radio stations. Dang, by the time you're like twenty,
(01:39):
you've done more with your liven than than I have
done at all. Which you are someone that got divorced
in their twenties, like married and divorced. And I saw
this quote the other day that said people that got
married and divorced in their twenties, like they had a spouse,
they filed paperwork, they found a lawyer, they did all
(02:02):
these things, Like meanwhile, I was just trying to figure
out what the heck to do with my hair. Oh my, So, like,
you lived a lot of life by the time you
were eighteen twenty. So this is just you know, some
of the stuff that they had in your ted X
talk little bio and I say little because everything that
was even written there was like not even enough to
sum you up, because you have lived a lot of lives.
(02:24):
And how young are you? I'm thirty five, thirty five.
My friend Scott, he taught me to ask that way,
how old are you? How young are young are you?
So I'm thirty five years old. Yeah, you've done a lot,
and we had a whole career together, and since then
you have gone on to this other career and then
landed yourself a dang ted X talk, yeah, which the
(02:47):
title of the talk is why what do you do?
Is the wrong question?
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (02:53):
So not a what do you do?
Speaker 4 (02:57):
It's so crazy, Like I haven't been on a microphe
with you in so long.
Speaker 2 (03:01):
It's been a long long time. I know, I'm glad
we're here and I'm excited to get like our own
personal TEDx talk with you on this question, Like why
is it what do you do? The wrong question? Yeah?
Speaker 4 (03:13):
I mean the talk was, you know, there's a lot
in it, but the what do you do? Is such
a just superficial question because it just says so like
just kind of like how you asked how young are you?
Speaker 3 (03:28):
Versus how old are you?
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Like switching that up changes the context so much because
a lot of times, I think, especially in our industry,
you walk into these events, you're around all.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
These people, and you're like what do you do? So
what do you do? What do you do?
Speaker 4 (03:40):
And it's like, well, I like to ask, like, what
are you excited about right now?
Speaker 3 (03:46):
What's giving you energy?
Speaker 4 (03:47):
Because what you do is not who you are, and
that is something that a lot of therapy to get to,
you know, and a lot of work and just like,
and I still struggle with it because I am like
a workaholic and I love what I do, but it's
not your identity. But it's not my identity, and I'm
still working on that.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
What gave you the idea to make this your TED talk?
Because that's a whole life to take on, Like coming
up with what you're going to talk about, because you
know you need to like wow people in a sense,
you're delivering this topic, this conversation and you want it
to go over well. So obviously you're passionate about that,
(04:25):
but how did you transform it into an entire talk?
Speaker 4 (04:28):
It was one of the hardest things I've ever done
in my entire many lives. They came to me in
July of last year, and the whole process is so
different than what I thought. And they work with you
on what your topic is. So I remember going through
a couple of different topics, Like I was like, what
about generational trauma?
Speaker 3 (04:47):
Because I was like, in the middle of working.
Speaker 4 (04:49):
On that, I just had a couple of different ideas
and one of the through lines that kept coming up
was that as a woman in this industry, you're always
told to like stay in your lane, do one thing.
And I remember when I was like making the decision
to leave the show and start a company and do
all these things, everyone was like, you got to do
one or the other.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
You can't do all these things.
Speaker 4 (05:10):
And now I have my own radio show and I
have my own company, you can do multiple things. So
that was kind of the idea that kept coming back around.
So the talk was in November. It wasn't until like
August that I kind of came up with this idea
and writing it and putting it together.
Speaker 3 (05:28):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 4 (05:28):
It was so hard because it wasn't like a scientific
experiment or something. It wasn't data. It was something that
is human. And so trying to express a human idea
to a lot of people in a way, like you said,
that's impactful, is really I mean, the imposter syndrome was strong.
(05:49):
And I remember I flew to Dallas to see Teresa,
my best friend, and we like spent I was like,
I just need a few days to like work.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
On this, to write it.
Speaker 4 (05:57):
We like post it noted her whole like all her mirrors,
like it was just like we had this whole system
and I was feeling great.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
I was at the very end.
Speaker 4 (06:06):
I was trying to figure out how to write the
end and tie it all back together. And I watched
one Ted Talk It was Elizabeth Gilpin's first one, and
I burst into tears and I had a whole breakdown,
whole breakdown, Like the next day, went to the airport,
had a full panic attack in the lounge bathroom. I
was just straw because I was like, this doesn't feel
(06:26):
like me, Like I wrote this whole thing that feels
so disconnected from who I am, and I remember coming
home and restarting the whole thing, and then it felt
way more real to me and way more authentic as
I did to who you.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
Were in that moment. Kat and I. She co hosts
my fifth Thing episode, So we had an episode on
Tuesday the aired, and we were going over some different
quotes and one of them was about losing touch with
who you used to be. And I feel like, because
you've lived so many different lives, but you've also wanted
to show up, is who you are in that moment.
I know you working on being authentic as like a
(07:03):
major thing, and I feel like that's part of who
you are now, Like you've gotten more vulnerable and you've
gotten in touch with that side, so I feel like
you're losing touch with that side of you that was
more shut off. Because you even saying I went to
the bathroom and started crying, some people that have maybe
known you during different seasons of your life would be like, not,
(07:24):
it doesn't cry. You know, it was a side. I mean,
I'm sure that you did cry at some point, but
you just had this demeanor about you that was tougher
than that. Not that it's not tough to cry now, right.
Speaker 4 (07:40):
No, no, And you have definitely seen both sides of
that of me, and that change because when we first met,
I was so closed off.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
I was called the ice Queen.
Speaker 4 (07:51):
I definitely did not have any vulnerability and didn't tap
into that at all. And then growth time you get
thrown a few things and you're like, well, this isn't
working for me anymore. You know, I can't connect to people.
I can't actually have an impact if I can't get
down into it.
Speaker 3 (08:09):
And I think, like for someone like me.
Speaker 4 (08:12):
Who struggles with anxiety depression, you know all sorts of things.
I sometimes will hate my brain and will be like, God,
I hate my brain, and then I have to remind
myself that like that brain is also what gets me
going and what is doing what I'm doing, you know,
and helping me get there, And so yeah, it was
(08:33):
a lot of work. I got a coach and I
started working with her for a few years, and she
helped me with my TED talk, and just the process
of getting it into my body was like we would
do hikes in the morning, like five mile hikes, and
I would literally have the paper and like read my
TED talk as I was like hiking, because you can't
you don't have notes. It wasn't a teleprompter, there's nothing.
(08:54):
It's an eighteen minute monologue. And I wanted to make
sure not only that I presented it well, but that
I lived.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
What I was saying.
Speaker 4 (09:04):
And I couldn't give a talk if I wasn't actually
real about it and what that wasn't my experience.
Speaker 3 (09:10):
And so that was like a.
Speaker 4 (09:11):
Big piece of it too, was like really working on
those things, really working on getting vulnerable and real and
authentic and realizing that yeah, it's okay to have feelings
and it's scary, but like that's what makes me who
I am.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I feel like I'd have to have it worked into
my eighteen minute monologue like some sort of joke for
the minute I mess up and I have no idea
what I'm supposed to say next, Like did you have
like a default or did you just roll with it
and trust the process. It was breathing.
Speaker 4 (09:43):
We worked on breathing, and I remember the morning of
Bridget and I worked on multiple different ways of breathing
throughout the talk, and that was what saved me. Was
like I was standing up there and if I ever
needed a second, I would just like take a deep breath, yes,
and like.
Speaker 3 (10:03):
You could hear it too.
Speaker 4 (10:04):
When I'm watching it back, you can hear me like
do these deep breaths, and it would just like ground me,
bring me back.
Speaker 2 (10:10):
There was like.
Speaker 4 (10:10):
One point in the talk where I lost my place
and I just kind of picked up from another place
and then I was able to like breathe through it
and get back to it. And it felt so like invigorating,
because you know you talk about like meditation and breathing
and all these things and you're like whatever, and it works,
(10:31):
And it really did work to like get me back
in my body. Calm me, let me know that, like
I'm here doing this and trusting my body to remember
all the things that like we had worked on.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
I feel like breath is one of the most powerful
things because it's with us at all times. Like there's
other tools we can have where we might need to
have access to something else or be alone to work
through something with our breath is always right here with us.
It's in our person. So there's no excuse not to
use breath to our benefit because it can be so powerful.
(11:05):
If you were to sum up the talk and like
an elevator pitch, we can do that here. I'm going
to link the Ted talk in the show notes because
I want people to go watch the entire thing, but
just some highlights from it, and then also your favorite
part of it, like if you could only pull one chunk, Yeah,
what would it be.
Speaker 4 (11:22):
I have so many different versions of the talk and
so many different notes, and one of the things that
always stayed in the talk every variation was I believe
that everyone has the ability to pursue all of their
passions all at once.
Speaker 3 (11:37):
And that's really important to me.
Speaker 4 (11:38):
Because I feel like we're told do one thing, or
stick to one thing, or stay in your lane, and
I believe that we're meant to be doing other things
and we're meant to kind of explore and be curious.
I'm going to have stay curious as a tattoo, and
that's been something that Bridget taught me and I've always
kind of stuck with that is and I talk about
this in my talk that like wesh our kids to
(12:01):
try everything, but then we don't do that for ourselves.
And so I think that giving yourself that permission of like, Okay,
I can do this, and I can do this, and
I can like to do this, and I can do
this for free or for work or for pleasure or
for hobby, Like that's okay too.
Speaker 2 (12:18):
My favorite part.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
There's a few and I bring up a few different things,
but I think, like the very beginning is really cool
because I talk about being an immigrant and being Egyptian
and I've never.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
Talked about that before.
Speaker 4 (12:30):
Really, the biggest thing with my TED talk was that
it gave me a voice and it helps me find
my voice. And it's ironic because I talk for a
living and you get this, but like talking and then
having a real voice is two completely different things. And
that was the first time that I felt really aligned
with I'm going to say the things that are important
(12:52):
to me and I'm going to talk about them and
I'm not going to be afraid of what other people
are going to say.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
That's way. It's good you had the bathroom break down.
It's because you were you needed to get to where
you were going to be up there doing what was
right for you.
Speaker 4 (13:05):
And I tell you how funny that was. I was
in the Delta Lounge bathroom, literally like locked in a stall, crying,
like full blown panic attack, can't breathe, like texting trees,
so like can you come back and pick me up?
Speaker 2 (13:16):
Like all the things, and.
Speaker 4 (13:18):
The bathroom attendant every time someone would walk in, she'd
be like, they're all empty except for that one.
Speaker 2 (13:23):
And I'm like, oh my not. Some woman's still in there.
She's still crying, and I'm like, I know it was.
Speaker 3 (13:31):
It was bad. It was bad.
Speaker 2 (13:33):
That's good you needed to release and let it out.
I mean some people have to do appointment cries where
they do lock themselves in and like, this is my
moment to let it all out, Like gosh, it's the
worst when you know that this would be such a
good time to get it out and you feel like
it could all go, but then you have to like
suck it up because you can't cry at that moment,
and it's like, oh, I feel like this is just
like wasted. This could have been very therapeutic and now
(13:55):
I can't do it. So I'm gonna have to like
appointment cry later.
Speaker 3 (13:58):
I have to get it otur myself to do that.
Speaker 4 (14:00):
For many many, many years and never had an appointment,
So I would just suppress.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
It until you explode eventually. So what would happen with that?
Speaker 3 (14:10):
I would get exhausted. It was exhaustion for me.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
That would like cause me to be angry or a
little irritated or whatever, and then I would feel it
coming on.
Speaker 2 (14:20):
I could tell when it was coming, and then I.
Speaker 4 (14:21):
Would just like burst into tears and like hide in
my bed, get under my weighted blanket, look for my cat.
There was no appointment, and that was wrong. And I
learned that the hard way.
Speaker 2 (14:32):
When you were making the shift to like leaving your
career at iHeart, which was a long one, longer than
just the ten years a handful of years of the
Bobby Bone Show, but you decided to completely change it up.
What was that like for you? Was it scary? Was
it exciting? Was it both? And how did you survive it.
Speaker 3 (14:52):
It was both.
Speaker 4 (14:53):
I mean, I started iHeart when I was eighteen, and
then I grew so much next to you and next
to Bobby, And like, I mean, I will say this
that when I started my show at Apple, I texted
Bobby and I was like, I learned so much from you.
And I remember starting my own show and being like
looking back at some of the things that I learned
from being on that show with you guys. I mean,
(15:15):
it took three years for me to get back into radio,
started a company, and you know, went down this other pass,
and I don't think I would have ever gotten back
to it had I not started a company, because.
Speaker 2 (15:24):
That experience is insane.
Speaker 4 (15:29):
There's nothing that could teach you the way that starting
a company teaches you. Just everything you know. And I
am not a finance person. I'm not a like calendar person.
So I had to learn a lot and just kind
of get out of my comfort zone. But I also
created it in a way that stayed true to myself
of like I'm still a talent, I'm still a host,
(15:51):
I still do these things. I was doing stuff for Soccer,
like on camera work and doing that and keeping my
creative spirit alive Like, for me, when I can't be creative,
that's when I fall into my deepest depressions. And like
when I can't connect to source and actually get that
creativity going, that's when I'm the worst. So it was
important for me to listen to myself and be like, yeah,
(16:13):
I can start a company and I can do this,
but I could also do this even though people were
really against it.
Speaker 2 (16:18):
So that's when the story started for you of you're
not going to have a lane.
Speaker 4 (16:23):
Yeah, I think I've always not had a lane. I
just don't think I ever.
Speaker 2 (16:26):
It iHeart for ten years. Yeah, you got to put
yourself in a lane. I think that maybe venturing out.
I know that you were one of the hardest working
people ever, Like you weren't like officially even a part
of the show yet, but you were one of the
first people there every morning. You didn't even have to
be and you showed up.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
If I was in the corner, yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:44):
And you sat in the corner and you did your
thing until Bobby was like, wait, what is up with this,
Like we need to hire this girl, because he recognized
like the strengths you had, the value you would bring.
I do think that you were able to do a
lot of different things. Like you've had a lot of skins,
but you were probably still sort of in one lane
ish and now you've expanded to where you're doing so
(17:07):
many different things, and I think that that's encouraging. Back
to the Ted Talk too, of like, well, if you
were to sit here and someone to say, well, what
do you do? Like that question would be so so
hard loaded, and there's so many other exciting things or
ways for you to answer that type of question and
go about who Nada is and from the beginning of
(17:27):
where your family came from to what you did this morning.
You have so much to offer in there. And when
it comes to your family history and the Ted Talk
stage being the first time that you talk about it,
why was that important for you to start it off
that way? I know, giving that a voice, but share
with people why that's important. And when it comes to
(17:58):
your family history and the Ted Talk stage being the
first time that you talk about it, why was that
important for you to start it off that way? I know,
giving that a voice, but yeah, share with people why
that's important.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
There was a.
Speaker 4 (18:10):
Lot of generational cultural trauma that I was working through.
I had been strange for my dad for like nine years,
and then starting working with Bridget, I reconnected with him,
and I think there was a lot of resentment and
anger and there still is.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
Every time I go to my energy dealer, I'm like,
just like, what do.
Speaker 4 (18:29):
You Feel'm like angry, you know, and we've talked about this.
It's just like I'm angry at myself. I'm angry at
my parents. Sometimes I'm angry at my culture. I'm angry
at a lot of things. And it's finding the strength
to be like, okay, but this is part of my story,
and this is what got me to this point. I
never really considered myself a woman of color for a
(18:50):
long time. I grew up in Georgia, I grew up
in Tennessee, you know, like I worked in country radio.
I was always just not a and I think beyond that,
I also just kind of straight away from my culture
because I had married an Egyptian guid and gotten divorced.
You know, there was a lot of religious trauma and
things that I just wanted to like again suppress, get
(19:12):
away from. And that was the way that I did it.
I didn't acknowledge my culture at all. And then in
the Lord there's shame around it for sure, Shame, resentment, anger,
all of the things. And I think as I started
to learn about myself, I ended up going back to
Egypt as an adult for the first time and spending
time with my aunts and like learning about my grandfather
(19:35):
who I never met, who actually was a creative and
you know, things like that that I was like, Okay,
there's pieces of me here, and representation matters. There's no
other Egyptian woman in country radio, and so I've seen
other women of color that will come up to me
and be like, I've never seen anyone in this space.
(19:55):
And I think that's important, and I think it's important,
especially in country to expand that and make it more
inclusive and let people know that you can come into
this genre and that it's not just white, and that
there is some melanin in here and we can have
a diversity of perspective. And so for me, ironically, I
(20:15):
thought that the beginning of my story was that, and
it was being in a first generation immigrant coming from Egypt.
I never really understood the depth of that until I
went back to Egypt and understood what it was like
and thinking about how my parents, who at thirty something
I'm thirty five now, I don't have kids, I don't
have a house. I'll have a husband. Like imagine being
(20:36):
married and bringing two kids across the world where you
don't know anybody, going from Egypt to Atlanta, Georgia.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Like, come on, there was a little.
Speaker 4 (20:45):
Bit of Okay, I kind of understand my parents now,
and I give them a little bit of grace and
compassion for what they went through because that would have
been really hard. It is a part of me that
I kept suppressed for a long time, and I'm glad
that I'm giving it a voice now.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I think when we face that sort of stuff and
we dig a little deeper than we have appreciation for Yeah,
like you were saying appreciation for what your parents went through,
appreciation for where we came from, and for you, you
had to travel a long distance to get there. But
I'm sure that's probably one of the most impactful trips
of your entire life, if not like the number one.
Speaker 3 (21:22):
It made my touch talk.
Speaker 4 (21:24):
It was like at the crux of it, it was
a catalyst for it, for sure. I went in March,
and I got offered the talk in July. I believe
in divine timing and I do think that that was
the universe being like, okay, you're ready to talk about this.
Speaker 2 (21:39):
You mentioned energy healers to just explain to people what
that is in case they're own. Yeah, they're not familiar
because people have different ones, like some touch, some don't touch,
Like what did you just do?
Speaker 4 (21:49):
Mine is we talk, So it's very therapeutic.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
She is wonderful.
Speaker 4 (21:54):
She also has a history in the music industry, so
she gets it.
Speaker 3 (21:58):
She does do energy work at the end of a session.
Speaker 4 (22:00):
So like, for example, I'll go in and she'll be like,
what level you know, Like we'll talk about something and
she'll be like, Okay, you're feeling angry.
Speaker 2 (22:06):
What level angry are you?
Speaker 3 (22:07):
And I'm like I'm a nine. And then she'll do
some energy work and I'll feel so much better and
she'll be like, what level are you now?
Speaker 4 (22:14):
And I'm like, I'm like a two and I'm just calm.
I don't know what she does. I don't know how
she does it, but I believe in energy, and I
believe that we're all moved by energy, and that having
a positive energy begets a positive energy. So if I
walk into a room and I'm positive and I'm manifesting
certain things that light and energy is going to come
(22:36):
back to me. But if I walk into a room
with suppressed energy or angry energy or whatever, that's going
to come back to me too. And I've seen it
happen where I'm in a bad headspace or I'm depressed, right,
I don't feel like I'm getting what I need and whatever,
no door's open for me. But the second I readjust
my energy, I'll get calls and texts immediately, and it'll
(22:56):
be things that I've been waiting for, things I didn't
even know were there, and it just kind of resets everything.
Speaker 2 (23:02):
You mentioned your relationship with your dad and how that
was fractured for a long time. Since you brought it up,
we'll talk about that energy and what that has done,
going and revisiting a relationship that needed repair. I feel
like a lot of people listening can relate to a
broken relationship with someone a dad or a mom that's
(23:24):
like a main figure, but it could be with a
sibling or any kind of broken relationship. Talk through what
that experience was like for you and what you would
encourage people to do, because I know that that wasn't
an easy thing for you to seek out and do.
But it seems like the fruit from that has been beautiful.
Speaker 4 (23:43):
I would say it's still a little fractured, maybe a
little less fractured, but I mean it was broken, broken.
Speaker 2 (23:50):
But even the fruit within you, oh, because you've been
able to It's not just that the relationship is toll
blown repaired. So just rephrase that to say that sometimes
it can be healing within ourselves too.
Speaker 4 (24:02):
That's what I needed to figure out was I think
I went through a period of time where I was like,
I have got to fix what's going on with my
dad so then I could reach the next level in
my career, like I needed to beat this boss level.
And what I learned was that it had nothing to
do with him. It still has nothing to do with him,
you know. It has everything to do with me and
(24:23):
the work that I do and how I feel about it,
and what boundaries I can create and what energy I
can protect of my own boundaries were a big thing,
and I think a lot of times were built to
just believe that you have to have a certain relationship
with your family, and I don't believe that that's true.
Like I have stronger relationships with some of my closest
(24:45):
people in my life, and I think those are just
as important as family relationships. I mean, I went through
a period of time where I had to be okay
with if something happened to my dad and I haven't
spoken to him in eight nine years?
Speaker 3 (24:57):
Am I okay with this? And I was.
Speaker 4 (25:00):
I'd gotten to a point where I was like, I'm good.
I don't need to say anything else to him. I
don't have anything else to you know, do I think
I was probably wrong? I think that there probably was
more there. And as I'm growing and as I'm giving
him a little bit more compassion and time and space,
even though I'm not requiring it, it's kind of happening
(25:23):
on its own. And I do believe that that's helping
me to understand myself better. Going to Egypt was a
big one, like understanding the immigration piece of it, Like
how hard that must have been for them. My energy
healer Trina, recently told me that she thinks that most
of my trauma was between one and like one and
(25:44):
two years old. I don't remember much of my childhood
because it's suppressed trauma.
Speaker 2 (25:49):
Well that's such an early age too, but such an age, yeah,
between birth and three. Those years are so important, and
I know it's an adoptive mom raising kids who so
their parents, or at least my son. My daughter had
a different experience with her mom, but from Earth to three,
his basic needs were not met. And Hayes mom was
(26:11):
with him a couple of those months, but I think
she was under a lot of stress. And then when
he said an orphanage and his time is being split
between fifteen other babies in the room, his needs were
not met. So I would imagine for you, if your
parents are immigrating and during that time under a lot
of stress, then your needs were not met.
Speaker 4 (26:29):
Yeah, And I think there's a guilt and a shame
of admitting that I didn't get those needs met because
there wasn't some red flag abusive behavior in our household.
Speaker 3 (26:40):
But that is.
Speaker 4 (26:42):
Neglect, even if they didn't mean it. We immigrated in
Ra was nine months old. My mom's mom died months later,
and so I can only imagine my first year of life,
you know, or my one to two age being neglected emotionally,
because how could she even deal with two kids, you know,
(27:02):
and her mother passing and moving across the world and
all of these things, and so it is interesting to
kind of relinquish that and be like, huh, okay, maybe
it wasn't my fault, or maybe you know, it wasn't
their fault. And I'm growing and I can be okay now,
and I'm not yet. I'm still still figuring it out,
(27:25):
and I'm still trying to grow and learn and see
how I can learn about my emotions and my boundaries
and listening to them and giving them a voice. Still
really really, really freaking hard.
Speaker 2 (27:39):
What's great is our brains do what they need to
take care of us. So during that time, you developed
neuropathways that we're going to protect you for your needs
that weren't met. But then as we age were like,
oh shoot, well, I know my brain was just trying
to protect me and keep me safe, but this I
don't need to live in this fear anymore. This flight freeze,
(28:00):
whatever the survival mode is that you may gravitate towards,
but it's so beautiful once you do start to see
new neuropathways being built and you are evolving, you're changing.
It just takes the repetition to get there, but you
know that it's possible because you've already witnessed the change.
Speaker 3 (28:19):
Here's my voice was the biggest one.
Speaker 2 (28:21):
See, I've always seen you as strong, powerful. What age
were you working on the show, So you're you twenties, Yeah,
mid twenties. So I saw you as someone I was like, gosh,
she's got her voice. So it's interesting that one's perception
may not be that person's reality.
Speaker 4 (28:44):
Yeah, I think I've always been confident. I've always been
bullish and you know, kind of ask for forgiveness later
kind of person and in certain capacities, especially in my work,
because think about it, I to suppress my emotion and
to survive, I went straight into work. I mean I
did nothing else but work, and so in those moments,
(29:06):
I was very strong and very assertive, and I knew,
you know, decisive and all of those things. But then
when I would be by myself, I couldn't decide what
to eat. I was always in a freeze mode where I,
like would be paralyzed from anxiety. And that's still something
that happens to me today. It's interesting, but like, finding
a voice that is true and authentic and like again,
(29:30):
aligned with your emotions is so different than what I
was doing on the surface level.
Speaker 3 (29:35):
And also thank you for seeing me in that way.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Just like you would look to me of like, oh,
I wish I could be more emotional and vulnerable, like
I mean, we were both doing that.
Speaker 4 (29:44):
I was like, you're so soft and kind and emotions like,
we're so hard and awesome. I think that's why we
like gravitated towards each other, because I was like, man,
I want to be softer like Amy, you know, and
I want to be so in tune to myself and
just emotional.
Speaker 3 (30:02):
And I mean you would cried.
Speaker 4 (30:03):
A lot you did, but it was it was great.
And I remember thinking, man, I wish I could do that,
and I just couldn't know.
Speaker 2 (30:10):
We were kind of the opposite. Whereas I could go home,
I could probably figure out what to eat and the
basic things like that, but I couldn't set a boundary
or be assertive. For the life of me. I would
him and around it and avoid it at all crazy
And now I'm better at that. And then you're a
little softer, a little softer, I'm edgier. So what were
(30:32):
you like to be in a relationship with during that time?
I see work you but personal you like, how how
has your work that you've done on yourself. We don't
even to make it a romantic relationship. It can even
be in a friendship. How has it changed how you
show up in that way so much?
Speaker 4 (30:50):
I'm setting better boundaries that are more intentional, and I'm
able to allow myself to say no more and allow
myself to say like, I'm very open, I'm very much like, hey,
I'm having a panic attack, or hey I'm having an
anxious day. I can't link up right now, and that's
important in my relationships, romantic relationships. I still struggle. I
(31:15):
think I'm definitely way more vulnerable than I used to be.
I communicate a little bit better. I still could work
on communicating my emotions. That's a big one is being
able to say I don't feel good about this, or
you know, this isn't working for me or whatever. I
don't think I set the right boundaries in my romantic relationships,
(31:35):
and I think that's still something that I can really
work on. Is that vulnerability within a romantic partnership. And
I think there is guilt, shame, all of the things
surrounding my previous marriage and that ending and that and
me being like, well I don't need this. I mean,
I don't think I would ever get married again. So
(31:55):
working through that and figuring out do I want to
get married again? Do I want want to do this again?
How vulnerable am I willing to get? And I can
talk about being vulnerable, but if I'm not fully vulnerable
in a romantic relationship where that person is my mirror,
then there's still some work to be done.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
The original marriage was that and arranged. No, Oh, why
do I think that because I'm era When I was young?
Speaker 3 (32:20):
Bad?
Speaker 2 (32:21):
No, it's finest, wasn't you did it? All knew each other?
Speaker 4 (32:28):
I mean you were eighteen. I know I met him
in college. I was fifteen when I got to college.
I met him the first semester. He was my first boyfriend. Again,
resentment towards my dad for not letting me live my life,
but yeah, I was my first boyfriend. And we got
engaged the day after we graduated college. So I was
eighteen and we got married that following.
Speaker 2 (32:49):
Year, and your parents were fine with that.
Speaker 4 (32:51):
My parents didn't like it. My mom definitely told me,
you're going to change a lot between now and when
you're twenty five. She was right, and I changed even
more from twenty five to thirty five.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
No, so it wasn't arranged.
Speaker 3 (33:04):
I don't regret it, but I would not do that again.
Speaker 2 (33:08):
Right, And I who that was a whole nother life
like before I met you. It's kind of like I
met you too long after that, but it was like
a different you were totally for person. It's not like
one of your Yeah, it's one of your favorite things
to I mean to talk about.
Speaker 4 (33:21):
You've recently gone through divorce. Do you feel like you've
changed a million times over?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I think so. I think we both have, and we're
still working through who we are in this new chapter
as co parents together and co parenting dating. I think
that he'll probably get married again, and even before me,
and so similar to you, like, I don't know will
I get married again? I don't know. Would I like that?
(33:50):
I think so, but there's just so many unknowns. I
feel like I'm working through so many other things at
the moment, Like.
Speaker 4 (33:57):
After you go through a divorce, you feel less reliant
on that idea, at least for me, I don't want
to project because I grew up thinking wait till marriage,
get married. You don't really like doing it, you know
what I mean? Have kids whatever, and that whole idea
changed for me.
Speaker 2 (34:13):
Yeah, I definitely went through a grieving process of grieving
this life that I thought I was going to have
since I was ten years old. Yep, so far I
had achieved that. I mean, I think the first hump
we challenged in that narrative was not being able to
get pregnant. So then that was sort of like, well,
wait a second, this is not how I envisioned it.
(34:35):
By twenty five, I was gonna have four kids. You know,
you had it all mapped out, and by twenty five
we were just now starting our life together. I feel like,
at twenty five, I'm married late, which is weird to
say now because any twenty five year old i'd be like,
you're good, Yeah, it's totally okay. But I definitely planned
(34:55):
on being married right out of college, which would for me.
If you graduate college like a normal person, you'd be
like twenty to do that. I did graduate and get married,
yeah at eighteen, So yeah, you're a little different timeline.
But yeah, I think that depending on where you grow up,
you're presented with this story book life and you sort
(35:16):
of abide by it, chase it, go after it. Every
boyfriend I had it was like, well, what's it going
to be like when we get married. It's like my
brain automatically jumped to that, And so I think the
difference now is if I'm going to date somebody, my
first question is not am I going to marry this person?
Or what's our life going to be like when we're married.
(35:36):
It's more in the moment and more present and more
able to see, Okay, what could this look like? Just
as is I still think there is hope for marriage,
and I think that there could be something beautiful in
that type of union, but it's just not my first
question anymore. Whereas you know, from seventh grade to senior
(35:57):
year of college, it was well could I marry this person?
Because that was the goal. It's not the goal anymore.
Speaker 3 (36:05):
Goal's connection exactly.
Speaker 4 (36:06):
And I think as hard as divorces, and definitely harder
for you with kids and having been married a lot longer,
but still just at the basis, divorce is difficult because
you grieve this idea that you had and what you
thought it was going to be, and then it opens
up this like beautiful opportunity to connect with someone without
any strings attached, without any long term assessments or anything
(36:31):
like that. It's like, who is this person? Do I
like hanging out with them? Do I like spending time
with them? And then it's like, oh, I can actually
connect with this human without being like.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
Are you gonna put a ring on it? You know,
like how big is a ring going to be? What
are we gonna do?
Speaker 4 (36:44):
I'm gonna get you know, And it's just like that
faded away from me. I mean, I definitely thought I
was gonna have I mean, you might be shocked, but
a lot of kids married that whole life, and I
guess I'm lucky that I was able to restart at
a young age.
Speaker 3 (36:58):
I was twenty one when I got divorced.
Speaker 4 (37:00):
It was kind of like I was still a baby,
and I was able to reassess all of that and
I'm grateful for it.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
And now you just have lots of cats, just one,
I know, but you know you and I both would
have more cats.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
When you got a cat, I was so excited.
Speaker 2 (37:16):
Do you think that doing the Ted talk, even just
writing it out, say you had never spoken it publicly
to anybody else like you did it solely for yourself,
it would have been as impactful for you and just
extremely therapeutic.
Speaker 3 (37:29):
Yeah, I've always been a writer. I've always loved it.
Speaker 4 (37:32):
I think the process of and you know, what I've
learned recently is that I'm guilty of self abandonment, which
is interesting because I've always felt like I had abandonment issues.
But it's not just other people. It's me and not
being able to do things just for me.
Speaker 2 (37:49):
Yeah, expand on that self abandonment.
Speaker 4 (37:51):
Oh yeah, the way my mind was blown when I
figured this out, when Trina figured this out with me.
Speaker 3 (37:56):
But basically, it's like, you think of people a bit.
Speaker 4 (38:00):
You this idea that this relationship might end, This person
might abandon you, your dad, your mom, your whatever, friends
even but the truth is you might be self abandoning,
which means like you are neglecting yourself, whether it's the
decisions you make, the boundaries you fail to set, or
for example, for me, if I want to go on
a walk, I'll text you you want to go on
(38:22):
a walk, and I will okay myself to go on
a walk if it's with you, because then I'm like,
I'm going on a.
Speaker 3 (38:28):
Walk with Amy, So it's for Amy, it's not for me.
Speaker 4 (38:30):
But to leave my work or to leave my space,
or to you know, do something for myself. It's so difficult,
and I didn't know that. I would just have these
anxiety attacks when I would have time when I wasn't
back to back meetings or events or whatever, and I
would just have time, and I'd be like, I want
to read or I want to write, or I want
to go on a walk. But then I would just
(38:51):
get paralyzed and couldn't move because apparently I don't like
doing things for myself.
Speaker 3 (38:57):
So I have to work on that.
Speaker 4 (38:58):
And I think the talk there was a deadline, there
was a in person talk that had to happen, so
I had to get through the writing of it. It
was really therapeutic because it pushed me past these blockages
that I had of I'm an impostor, I'm not an expert.
Why am I giving a tech talk? What am I
talking about?
Speaker 3 (39:17):
You know? Who am I to say anything.
Speaker 4 (39:18):
I haven't done anything in my life, Whereas you know,
some people that I know would be like, You've done
so much, You've lived so many lives, like you have
all these things going on. I'm just like, I don't
see myself in that way at all. I still don't.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
I'm still like I haven't done anything.
Speaker 2 (39:33):
But even after you've done it and you see the
Ted talk back and you see what everybody had to
say and all the people that have been so incredibly
proud of.
Speaker 4 (39:41):
You, yes, I still am like I haven't done anything yet.
There's just a whole lot of stuff that even after
a Ted talk, I'm still working on, which was crazy
for me because I was like, well, then maybe my
Tet talk was not like, you know, I'm like not
being the person that I was when I gave that
Ted talk. But it's like that's good, right, It's I'm growing.
Speaker 2 (40:01):
Yeah, we're constantly constant. Like if you're not growing, you're dead. Yeah,
not dead. I'm fine. Yeah, as long as you still
want to be here, then that's a good thing. And
it was.
Speaker 4 (40:11):
I will say I think writing was very therapeutic, and
I would. I mean, you journal a lot, so you
understand the importance of that. I think that is in
giving myself credit and being able to say those things
out loud, sitting here and being able to talk about
giving a Ted talk or what I did or how
I've grown, that's big. That's a reminder, an affirmation of
(40:35):
you've done it, You've did it.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
Talk about the Deon Sanders part of your Ted Talk.
Talk about the Deon Sanders part of your Ted Talk.
Speaker 4 (40:54):
It was actually Breeland who I work with as a
creative director and a manager.
Speaker 3 (40:58):
And we watched a lot of sportstocks.
Speaker 4 (41:02):
Sports stocks are like our thing, and we had just
watched the Deon Sanders stock and I remember thinking like, wow,
that sounds familiar. I think it was really important to
find tangible examples like the Taylor Swift example. Deon Sanders,
Michael Jordan and Dion Sanders, if you don't know, played
two sports. He played at football and baseball at the
(41:22):
same time. Like he literally played for two major league
sports sporting leagues at the same time.
Speaker 3 (41:28):
And he got so much crap for.
Speaker 4 (41:30):
It because people like, you can't do both of those
things just because you're good at it, doesn't you can
play you know, football and baseball and you're gonna neglect
and all these things. And at the end he was
successful at both and he was like, no, I'm gonna
do what I want to do and I'm capable of
doing both of these things.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
It's like Angel Reese.
Speaker 4 (41:47):
She gets a lot of crap from people for how
she is a celebrity and an athlete, and why not.
Why can't you create a brand for yourself. Why can't
you create a story for yourself.
Speaker 3 (42:00):
And then live that out and be authentic.
Speaker 4 (42:03):
So it was really inspiring for me to have watched
that doc and again, divine timing, it was like one
of those things I just watched.
Speaker 2 (42:09):
I was like wow, because it's like, if you were
to ask answer that question like what do you do,
you'd be like, well, yeah, I'm proathly here, I'm a
pro athly here, and now.
Speaker 3 (42:18):
I'm a coach.
Speaker 4 (42:19):
Now I'm a successful coach. Like there's so many things
that you can be. I mean, you could go through
life and be a million different things.
Speaker 2 (42:27):
You're eighteen years old and you have three words you
can tell yourself. What would they be? Because I was
asked this question the other day and my three words
are in alignment with what you said. Dion's answer was
to people, So I'll tell you mine and you can
think of this. But you've just got three words that
you can tell your younger self. And I guess it's
like graduation season. So it popped back up as a
(42:48):
question somewhere. I think it's been a lot of places,
but just out of curiosity. You're eighteen, you're graduating. What
do you tell yourself? And the three words that came
to mind for me were I am capable or if
I'm telling it to my eighteen you are capable. Because
I think there was so much back then that I
didn't think that I was capable of doing. I didn't
(43:09):
believe in myself in any way, shape or form, and
so that's something that gosh, I'm that's something I'm rewiring
my brain for now at forty three. Imagine if I
had started that process at eighteen, that'd have been great.
Speaker 3 (43:23):
Wow.
Speaker 2 (43:24):
So do you know what three words you would tell
do not marry, don't get married? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (43:34):
Probably, honestly, probably No.
Speaker 4 (43:36):
I think for me, the biggest thing that I struggle
with is being seen and heard. So maybe those I
don't know. I'd have to really think about. That's a
great question. I'm not good at those questions because I
have suppressed so much of my childhood and so much
of like that time in my life.
Speaker 2 (43:55):
How about reframing it. It's not that you're not good
at those questions, is that you are at them yet.
Speaker 3 (44:00):
I'm not good at them yet. Yeah, So I love it?
Speaker 2 (44:03):
Or you're you're working on working better.
Speaker 4 (44:05):
Maybe I mean yeah, I mean like maybe it's like
don't rush or something or like three words not.
Speaker 3 (44:12):
No, I can't think of a third RD.
Speaker 2 (44:13):
I got you though, do not rush, not rush.
Speaker 3 (44:16):
Oh my goodness.
Speaker 2 (44:18):
I thought you're eighteen. But I'm not smart. I thought
you were a journalism.
Speaker 4 (44:22):
I mean, I think like everything that was meant to
happen has happened. And as I look back on all
of the things that have transpired, I don't I don't
believe in regret, and I believe in compounding your experiences.
So I don't look at any of the experiences that
I've had in my life as you know, Oh, I'm
not doing that anymore. So that was a waste. It's
(44:44):
more like your compounding experiences. So I look at me
getting married at eighteen and divorced at eighteen and graduating
college and then you know, working in this or well.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Divorced at twenty one. Give yourself a hurt.
Speaker 3 (44:55):
Yeah yeah, good. A couple of years, couple of years.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
It wasn't It wasn't a Kim It wasn't a Kim
k marriage. But like truly, it's like those things all
led me to being where I am now, and as
much as I sometimes hate my brain, I also have
to love it and I also have to have some
compassion for it and be.
Speaker 3 (45:12):
Like, you may have some good decisions.
Speaker 4 (45:14):
Sometimes, you know, and those things are still important for
me to have shaped who I am and the boundaries
I've created, because I don't think I would have had
the same boundaries had I not gone through.
Speaker 3 (45:25):
Most of those things. I'm gonna think on those three words.
I'm gonna get back to you.
Speaker 2 (45:28):
Okay, you can do that.
Speaker 3 (45:29):
I love that question.
Speaker 2 (45:30):
Well, let's do four things gratitude, because I know anxiety
is something you've mentioned and sometimes it can take you over,
but it's scientifically impossible to be anxious when you are
in gratitude. So if you're taking time to be present
with gratitude, then your brain is focusing on that thank yous.
(45:52):
So what are four things that you are currently thankful
for today? My cat?
Speaker 3 (45:57):
I love my cat. He's like my little bestie.
Speaker 4 (46:01):
I am grateful for the relationship that I'm trying to
create with myself and those conversations that I'm trying to
have within my inner self. Third thing, ooh of my
best friend Teresa's coming to visit. I'm going to see
her in a few days. I'm really thankful she taught
me unconditional love.
Speaker 3 (46:23):
Very thankful for her always.
Speaker 2 (46:25):
And that's one of those examples too. Of your family
can come from anywhere, Like you're so many of us
are tied to certain relationships because we're like, oh, it's
blood and blood is the most important thing, and it's
like not always.
Speaker 3 (46:39):
I'm also grateful for online shopping. Talk about therapy, great therapy.
Speaker 2 (46:44):
So that can be one of those coping mechanisms that
can actually like literally laying it to more anxiety. What yes,
if you're over shopping, it's one of those things that
you can think is relaxing because it feels good and
it's therapeutic in the moment, but that can lead to
more anxious thoughts like shopping too much, binging too much.
(47:07):
Like if you're doing it in small doses, it's okay.
Speaker 3 (47:10):
Personality, So I'm not surprised.
Speaker 2 (47:12):
Yeah, I'm grateful for you.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
Is that better?
Speaker 2 (47:13):
No? No, no, you should. I'm thankful for your shopping.
You always have good fashion and I'll borrow things. I
guess we've always done that though, because of us. I'm
having a year of less, so I'm not really shopping,
which has also been therapeutic in itself.
Speaker 4 (47:27):
Urging is the best. I do that regularly, and it's
so great.
Speaker 2 (47:32):
I would imagine you'd have to as much as you shop.
Speaker 4 (47:34):
Well, you don't always have to buy things that you shop.
You could just you know, rouse peruse.
Speaker 3 (47:39):
What are you thankful for? What are you grateful for?
Speaker 2 (47:41):
I'm thankful for you coming over in this conversation. I
am thankful for I just had Mother's Day with the kids,
and I think it's my sixth one with them, and
my first one where it's a full we're fully divorced.
So I didn't know what to expect because their kids
(48:02):
and they had been with their dad the previous week
and then I got them back, and so I thought, well,
they may not even know it's Mother's Day. Yeah, I mean,
of course I'm going to remind them. Okay, it's Mother's Day.
All I want is for everybody to organize, make donate
piles and dumpster piles like That's all I wanted was
for them to contribute to the decluttering that's happening at
my house right now, which they did do that, and
(48:24):
I was really sweet. They both participated, but they both
had gifts for me and a card with a sweet note,
and I know that Ben organize that it's very kind,
and they both had it wrapped in the same Happy
Birthday wrapping paper that I'm sure they got at their dad's.
So that'll be my third thing as I'm thankful that
Ben and I have a relationship where I'm going to
(48:46):
make sure he's taken care of on Father's Day and
make sure that the kids are still thinking of him,
and that he's going to make sure that they're still
thinking of me and knowing how to show appreciation and
respect for the other parents. So that is something that's
just happened recently that I'm definitely thinkfulfore and it's not
lost on me that not everybody has that situation. It
(49:07):
might be that the kids come back from the other parents'
house and they're like, yeah, right, I didn't do anything.
I don't Yeah, why would I do that? We don't
have a good relationship, And then the kids end up
doing nothing and then the mom's like, okay, well in
that case, you just have to understand and mother's is
all these holidays is stuff that they're designed to just
make a bunch of money and spend a bunch of money,
so it doesn't have to be about like what is gotten,
(49:29):
but just even like words and knowing that the kids
acknowledged it and that they were excited when they woke up.
That's the first things they gave me. And then I
guess the fourth thing would be I'm trying to look
forward more like what do I have exciting that's in
the works, What do I have because I can get
very stuck in the moment, and I'm trying to be
(49:49):
more of a planner of exciting things. And I'm working
on a little trip for myself. Oh I can't which
I don't do much any of that either, but I'm
excited about that, and I'm excited for that growth. Yes,
and then also I mean practicing it to build that
new pathway to where it'd be normal for me to
(50:11):
plan things for myself and get excited because I mean
I get excited about staying home, same and doing nothing nothing, Yeah, same,
but we got to get out do things from time
to time.
Speaker 4 (50:22):
It is cool to have had this s friend trip
for so long, I know, and then to have seen
each other grow.
Speaker 2 (50:28):
I'm picturing us like even ten years from now having
a similar sit down but a completely different conversation.
Speaker 4 (50:34):
I'm excited for that. I'm excited to see how far
we go and.
Speaker 2 (50:37):
Then we'll be like, so what is it that you do?
I'd be like, oh, duh, we don't ask that question.
We both probably lived lots of lives but asked that
question anymore. Thank you for reminding us that we don't
have to stay in a lane and it can look
a lot like a lot of different things. And thank
you for you sharing some of your growth and even
(50:59):
what you would consider to be your weaknesses, but they're
also who you are and what makes you you. And
it's going to be exciting to see how you exercise
that muscle and become stronger in those areas. And you
know it's a give and take, it's a flow, like
we're not gonna all have it right.
Speaker 4 (51:14):
I'm most excited that I can say welcome to my
touch talk and like mean it.
Speaker 3 (51:21):
I always wanted to say that.
Speaker 2 (51:22):
For anybody else listening, it sounds like, yeah, it was therapeutic.
So you can, even if you've never been invited by
Ted anybody to come speak, just write your own talk,
practice it on hikes, practice it with your breath work,
deliver the eighteen minute monologue on your own. Nobody else
has to hear it, and apparently it'll do wonders for you.
(51:43):
So thank you. Nada Everything Nada can be found at well,
I'm going to say your Instagram. But you may have
other websites that you want to send people to. But
I'm sure that you have.
Speaker 3 (51:52):
The link tree. No, just no, I know a link tree?
Well am I God? Link to my tut talk on
my cat. No, but you have good Apple show. Yeah,
you could listen to Apple Music Radio.
Speaker 2 (52:06):
At Nada means nothing is the handle and that's because
well nada in Spanish means nothing. Yes, but it's nothing.
Speaker 3 (52:14):
Nothing, no G. They wouldn't let me add the G.
Speaker 2 (52:16):
Let's say, I think it's cutter that way, not it
means nothing.
Speaker 3 (52:18):
Yeah, you're right.
Speaker 2 (52:19):
Bye
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