November 15, 2025 • 13 mins
The IPCA released a scathing review laying out out a chain of senior-level failures around the McSkimming scandal.
The question now is whether the public can have any confidence in the police in general and in its leadership.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:05):
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks'.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Be damning might be the word after the IPCA was
released its scathing review laying out a chain of senior
level failures around the skimming affair from mishandled complaints to
behavior of them that the current Commissioner himself has called
an excusable and the question now has led to whether
the public can have confidence in the police in general
(00:30):
and also what effect on frontline morale this has had.
Administer of Police Mark Mature joins me. Now, good afternoon, Mark,
thank you asternoon to hey you must be naked?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Has been an exhausting week.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Oh it has been a tough week. But it's not
about me. It's about number one, the public, And like
you just alluded to making sure that we take the
steps now to do all that we can so that
the public can feel confident they can maintain confidence in
our police, and from my perspective, they absolutely can. We
(01:04):
have got a world class police force. They have been
badly let down small by their leadership and of course
now we're having to respond to that. And you know,
straight after this or the day after we the IPCA
report was released Tom. I actually went up to PNHT
and just walked the floors so that I could talk
(01:25):
to all the staff up there and acknowledge them and
think for the work they do and get feedback and
allow them to talk to me about how they were feeling.
And they are devastated. Some are still processing it. There's
lots of tears. There's anger there, and these are people
that are still turning up every day and doing their work.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Where now, where is the anger and the tears? Where
is that directed? Because there are two sides to this,
aren't there. There's the behavior of the former Deputy Commissioner
MC skimming, and there's the failure of police leadership and
basically sweeping things under the rug. Where is the anger directed?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
It's directed at the failure of police leadership. They feel
betrayed and let down by that leadership. And I don't
blame them because they were one and of course, especially
our frontline police officers, the one that have to get
up every day and put the blues on and go it.
There the people that don't like police, this just gives
(02:28):
them ammunition to start abusing them and they copy it.
They are the ones that end up copying it. It's
gross the unfair, but that's what happens. There was police
officers that didn't want to put the uniform and walk
down the street because they're ashamed of how the executive
had behaved. So it impacts them very very hard. And
(02:49):
it's my job as minister and also the commissioner's job.
We're working very hard together to make sure that we
do reassure the public they can still have confidence in
our frontline police. Our frontline police as individuals are quite
simply outstanding in every area they cover. I've been to
several police awards ceremonies in the last few weeks. Most
(03:10):
of the awards handed out to them are for police
officers that have put themselves in harms way to save
members of the public.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Are the police front line officers? Are they? Are they
receiving negative feedback from the public in the wake of
their duty in the Yeah, while they're carrying out the
duds now.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
So anecdotally, yes, there has been. Yes, they are copying
a bit of abuse, not from good members of the public,
but from the people that don't like the police and
that the police have to deal with anyway, And you'd
probably expect that, but those people are weaponizing it without
a doubt and using it against our frontline police that
(03:51):
are out there every day. Like I said, grossly unfear
But that is a direct result of the complete failure
and betrayal of a of a police executive that had
that had had a complete departure of police values and
had no integra. It makes me furious.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Are you happy with the way that the Police Commissioner
Chambers has handled himself and over the past few days.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Yeah, I'm very happy, and that's well, that's why we
appointed him. You know, I always admired his leadership right
throughout when he was coming up through the ranks. He
was always If you talk to frontline police, he'll tell
you that nothing has changed with him. He's always been
deeply engaged with the front line. He cares about his people.
I believe he's a genuine leader. I think that he's
(04:34):
shown that because there's a difference between a good manager
and a good leader. With him, you've got both, and
I think that's critically important for a service like the police.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
How much of the fucking use this terminology? How much
of the boil has been lanced by the fact that
you know, the report was about another leadership group, not
the current one. How much of how much difference does
it make? Because I was thinking, imagine if this report
had come out while we had the previous leadership in place,
that would have been utterly devastating.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
But it does.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Has it made a big difference the fact that that
was then, this is now, and this is our these
are our leaders.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
I think the public are still working through that. I
think they're still going to have quite a few questions
that they want answered, and we're going to have to
just answer those as we sort of travel through this.
I don't want to politicize it, I guess all I'd
say as the incoming minister identified very quickly that I
had a very weak police executive that I'd inherited that,
to be honest with you, through the issues I had
(05:32):
there were around capability and delivery. I hadn't identified the
integrity issues, but certainly we had identified that there have
been a drop and standards and less of a focus
on standards and integrity, and we started making moves immediately
on that. With the incoming commissioner, he's been very proactive
and forward leaning into that as well.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
How confident are you that we are putting in place
or have processes in place to avoid a repeat of
what we've seen.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
We're making moves to do that now. So you would
have seen that we announced and Justice already working on this,
a Inspector General that we're going to put in over
the top of police. There is a big move. They
come with enormous bowers. They are able to inject themselves
into any process that the police are involved in, and
so that's going to provide a much stronger form of oversight.
(06:19):
And you, of course, you had the Police Commissioner who's
already been out there changing the settings around the use
of internet, you know, conducting audits right through the organization
to make sure that standards have been maintained. We change
the police training course at the Police College from sixteen
weeks to twenty weeks to strengthen the correct them there.
He's reinstating a whole lot of things that had got
(06:40):
rid of around standards and that chain of command. So
there's quite a bit going on. We know that we've
we've accepted and adopted all of the IPCA recommendations, so
we'll move on those. So there is a lot of
work going on because we know inherently, both myself and
the Commissioner that we've got to do all this stuff
so that we can keep and deserve to have that
(07:01):
and that public confidence. And I guess you know my
message from day one is I know this has rocked
the nation and it's absolutely right because of the behavior.
That behavior does not reflect ninety nine point nine percent
of our frontline police officers, non sworn or sworn, that
are out there every day working hard to serve their
communities and keep our country safe.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I guess along the way, it's important that young officers
are constantly presented with the right moral models. Are you
confident that at all levels younger officers have those right
role models in place?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Generally speaking, yes, absolutely. But the Commissioner he's been on
the road going around the country for the last twelve months,
having leadership meetings with his leadership teams around the country
to make sure to reinforce and reconfirm the values and
what they're looking for. What he's looking for in leadership
right down through every rank in the police, because it
(07:56):
does matter. A new constable coming out from police college,
the biggest influence on that person is going to be
their sergeant and then their senior sergeant, So you know,
it doesn't matter down through the ranks that you've got
quality leadership. I'm out with our frontline police officers all
the time and it never ceases to amaze me the
quality of the people we have and the outstanding leaders
we have, whether it be from a senior constable through
(08:19):
to a sergeant's senior sergeant right up through the ranks.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So where are we at do you think with public
trust and the police?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
I think that the public still inherently know that they
can trust our front line. I think that they have
got big questions around how things are operating at p
and HD, which is absolutely fair, but they also expect
us to be able to make moves and show that
we're doing things that everyone can have a high level
of trust that this can't happen again.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
What's your role versus when it comes to these confidence
issues of the front line and the public. What is
your role as because there, you know, we've got to
acknowledge there's a complete separation of sort of roles here
between you and the commissioner. What's your role?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah, my role is to support the Commissioner and to
make sure from government that we're providing the resources that
our police need to be able to do their job.
And you know, we're a government that is clearly behind
our police, have enormous respect for them. We're investing heavily
in the numbers. Obviously, we had a fresh focus and
that was back to basics, policing, high visibility, reassurance, getting
(09:26):
on top of the gang problem, the violent problem that
we have in New Zealand. They're doing outstanding work on that.
But my job is very much behind the scenes. Frontline
police officers don't really care too much who ministers are
or what's going on. They care about the commissioner. The
commissioners is what matters to them, and we have put
what I think is an outstanding commissioner in place with
(09:47):
all the leadership qualities that we need, and a man
put for pack full of integrity and you only have
to go back and look at his career and he's
the right guy right now to lead our police through
these very difficult times.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
One of the things that as one of the things
that's part of recovering trust, I guess, is getting a
sense there's been some accountability and so of my question
is are all avenues being explored because there are some
people who have resigned or retired before they were pushed
sort of thing. But are all avenues going to be
explored regarding holding those decision makers to account i e.
(10:20):
With potential obstructions of courses of justice and things like that.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah. Look, I would say that with the IPCA complaint
now us having with the IPC a report now with
us and also it's available publicly, is that there's going
to be quite a bit of work for police to
do to start working through, to start working through that
that is operational, that is for the commissioner that Yes,
the expectation from me is that they start to do
(10:45):
that work.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Do you know if that work as underway?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yes, I think there's several streams that are already underway.
But that's something for the commission to speak to.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And lastly, and it's certainly not least by the way,
victim confidence. What would you say? I mean that that's
you know, we've been frontline police and the public, but
of course the confidence of victims that they can be
taken seriously every time. What would you say to a victim?
What would you say to future victims?
Speaker 3 (11:19):
That's a really hard one because my voice probably has
sounds of it, you know, is not that strong because
of what we're dealing with and what has become exposed
to the public. All I'd say is that from my
perspective since becoming minister, where I have had a huge
focus on making sure that that standards and integrity are
(11:40):
a big part of everything that we do, I think
that the values of the police and our history dictate
that that is a focus all the time. As a
father of daughters, I was horrified when I saw the
treatment that what I felt very strongly was very poor
treatment of this young woman, and I moved and pushed
(12:00):
as hard and as far as I could as police
Minister to deal with the case that that I could
legally because there is a separation of powers the case
between gimm At skimming and who I term as the victim.
I think that the most powerful and one of the
strongest voices on this was always Nicholas, who, as you know,
(12:21):
just went through an absolute horror in terms of the
way that she was treated. Huge support from her husband
that was who I admire to in the way that
he sort of conducted himself through all of that, and
she came out and she very clearly said and condemned
the behavior of this police executive, but she said, please
do not judge our police. They have come a long way,
(12:44):
and we have got experts out there that deal with
sexual violence and family violence. They do that in a
professional way, with empathy, and they guide victims through these
very difficult court cases. There's been big movement in the
right direction of that, and I would plead and say
to anyone coming forward, please have confidence that you'll be
dealing with the best, most professional police officers of the
(13:06):
world that will take your complaints seriously and we'll and
colllect on it.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Hey Mark, thanks very much. Hey Bud, just quickly, another
week is about to start tomorrow. I guess if you
start with Monday, what's top of your to do list.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
I'm quite so this is taking up a lot of
my time, as you'd expect it too, So I've sort
of really focused on making sure that we do what
we have to do from government to start taking the
actions that we said that we would, and that's got
to be visible and the public have to see that
happening quickly. Excellent.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Hey Mark, thanks thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Thanks me on to I really appreciate it. Yep.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
You're listening to the Weekend Collective podcast from News Talks'.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
Be damning might be the word after the IPCA was
released its scathing review laying out a chain of senior
level failures around the skimming affair from mishandled complaints to
behavior of them that the current Commissioner himself has called
an excusable and the question now has led to whether
the public can have confidence in the police in general
(00:30):
and also what effect on frontline morale this has had.
Administer of Police Mark Mature joins me. Now, good afternoon, Mark,
thank you asternoon to hey you must be naked?
Speaker 3 (00:41):
Are you?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Has been an exhausting week.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
Oh it has been a tough week. But it's not
about me. It's about number one, the public, And like
you just alluded to making sure that we take the
steps now to do all that we can so that
the public can feel confident they can maintain confidence in
our police, and from my perspective, they absolutely can. We
(01:04):
have got a world class police force. They have been
badly let down small by their leadership and of course
now we're having to respond to that. And you know,
straight after this or the day after we the IPCA
report was released Tom. I actually went up to PNHT
and just walked the floors so that I could talk
(01:25):
to all the staff up there and acknowledge them and
think for the work they do and get feedback and
allow them to talk to me about how they were feeling.
And they are devastated. Some are still processing it. There's
lots of tears. There's anger there, and these are people
that are still turning up every day and doing their work.
Speaker 2 (01:45):
Where now, where is the anger and the tears? Where
is that directed? Because there are two sides to this,
aren't there. There's the behavior of the former Deputy Commissioner
MC skimming, and there's the failure of police leadership and
basically sweeping things under the rug. Where is the anger directed?
Speaker 3 (02:08):
It's directed at the failure of police leadership. They feel
betrayed and let down by that leadership. And I don't
blame them because they were one and of course, especially
our frontline police officers, the one that have to get
up every day and put the blues on and go it.
There the people that don't like police, this just gives
(02:28):
them ammunition to start abusing them and they copy it.
They are the ones that end up copying it. It's
gross the unfair, but that's what happens. There was police
officers that didn't want to put the uniform and walk
down the street because they're ashamed of how the executive
had behaved. So it impacts them very very hard. And
(02:49):
it's my job as minister and also the commissioner's job.
We're working very hard together to make sure that we
do reassure the public they can still have confidence in
our frontline police. Our frontline police as individuals are quite
simply outstanding in every area they cover. I've been to
several police awards ceremonies in the last few weeks. Most
(03:10):
of the awards handed out to them are for police
officers that have put themselves in harms way to save
members of the public.
Speaker 2 (03:18):
Are the police front line officers? Are they? Are they
receiving negative feedback from the public in the wake of
their duty in the Yeah, while they're carrying out the
duds now.
Speaker 3 (03:30):
So anecdotally, yes, there has been. Yes, they are copying
a bit of abuse, not from good members of the public,
but from the people that don't like the police and
that the police have to deal with anyway, And you'd
probably expect that, but those people are weaponizing it without
a doubt and using it against our frontline police that
(03:51):
are out there every day. Like I said, grossly unfear
But that is a direct result of the complete failure
and betrayal of a of a police executive that had
that had had a complete departure of police values and
had no integra. It makes me furious.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Are you happy with the way that the Police Commissioner
Chambers has handled himself and over the past few days.
Speaker 3 (04:14):
Yeah, I'm very happy, and that's well, that's why we
appointed him. You know, I always admired his leadership right
throughout when he was coming up through the ranks. He
was always If you talk to frontline police, he'll tell
you that nothing has changed with him. He's always been
deeply engaged with the front line. He cares about his people.
I believe he's a genuine leader. I think that he's
(04:34):
shown that because there's a difference between a good manager
and a good leader. With him, you've got both, and
I think that's critically important for a service like the police.
Speaker 2 (04:43):
How much of the fucking use this terminology? How much
of the boil has been lanced by the fact that
you know, the report was about another leadership group, not
the current one. How much of how much difference does
it make? Because I was thinking, imagine if this report
had come out while we had the previous leadership in place,
that would have been utterly devastating.
Speaker 3 (05:02):
But it does.
Speaker 2 (05:03):
Has it made a big difference the fact that that
was then, this is now, and this is our these
are our leaders.
Speaker 3 (05:10):
I think the public are still working through that. I
think they're still going to have quite a few questions
that they want answered, and we're going to have to
just answer those as we sort of travel through this.
I don't want to politicize it, I guess all I'd
say as the incoming minister identified very quickly that I
had a very weak police executive that I'd inherited that,
to be honest with you, through the issues I had
(05:32):
there were around capability and delivery. I hadn't identified the
integrity issues, but certainly we had identified that there have
been a drop and standards and less of a focus
on standards and integrity, and we started making moves immediately
on that. With the incoming commissioner, he's been very proactive
and forward leaning into that as well.
Speaker 2 (05:49):
How confident are you that we are putting in place
or have processes in place to avoid a repeat of
what we've seen.
Speaker 3 (05:57):
We're making moves to do that now. So you would
have seen that we announced and Justice already working on this,
a Inspector General that we're going to put in over
the top of police. There is a big move. They
come with enormous bowers. They are able to inject themselves
into any process that the police are involved in, and
so that's going to provide a much stronger form of oversight.
(06:19):
And you, of course, you had the Police Commissioner who's
already been out there changing the settings around the use
of internet, you know, conducting audits right through the organization
to make sure that standards have been maintained. We change
the police training course at the Police College from sixteen
weeks to twenty weeks to strengthen the correct them there.
He's reinstating a whole lot of things that had got
(06:40):
rid of around standards and that chain of command. So
there's quite a bit going on. We know that we've
we've accepted and adopted all of the IPCA recommendations, so
we'll move on those. So there is a lot of
work going on because we know inherently, both myself and
the Commissioner that we've got to do all this stuff
so that we can keep and deserve to have that
(07:01):
and that public confidence. And I guess you know my
message from day one is I know this has rocked
the nation and it's absolutely right because of the behavior.
That behavior does not reflect ninety nine point nine percent
of our frontline police officers, non sworn or sworn, that
are out there every day working hard to serve their
communities and keep our country safe.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I guess along the way, it's important that young officers
are constantly presented with the right moral models. Are you
confident that at all levels younger officers have those right
role models in place?
Speaker 3 (07:35):
Generally speaking, yes, absolutely. But the Commissioner he's been on
the road going around the country for the last twelve months,
having leadership meetings with his leadership teams around the country
to make sure to reinforce and reconfirm the values and
what they're looking for. What he's looking for in leadership
right down through every rank in the police, because it
(07:56):
does matter. A new constable coming out from police college,
the biggest influence on that person is going to be
their sergeant and then their senior sergeant, So you know,
it doesn't matter down through the ranks that you've got
quality leadership. I'm out with our frontline police officers all
the time and it never ceases to amaze me the
quality of the people we have and the outstanding leaders
we have, whether it be from a senior constable through
(08:19):
to a sergeant's senior sergeant right up through the ranks.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
So where are we at do you think with public
trust and the police?
Speaker 3 (08:27):
I think that the public still inherently know that they
can trust our front line. I think that they have
got big questions around how things are operating at p
and HD, which is absolutely fair, but they also expect
us to be able to make moves and show that
we're doing things that everyone can have a high level
of trust that this can't happen again.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
What's your role versus when it comes to these confidence
issues of the front line and the public. What is
your role as because there, you know, we've got to
acknowledge there's a complete separation of sort of roles here
between you and the commissioner. What's your role?
Speaker 3 (09:03):
Yeah, my role is to support the Commissioner and to
make sure from government that we're providing the resources that
our police need to be able to do their job.
And you know, we're a government that is clearly behind
our police, have enormous respect for them. We're investing heavily
in the numbers. Obviously, we had a fresh focus and
that was back to basics, policing, high visibility, reassurance, getting
(09:26):
on top of the gang problem, the violent problem that
we have in New Zealand. They're doing outstanding work on that.
But my job is very much behind the scenes. Frontline
police officers don't really care too much who ministers are
or what's going on. They care about the commissioner. The
commissioners is what matters to them, and we have put
what I think is an outstanding commissioner in place with
(09:47):
all the leadership qualities that we need, and a man
put for pack full of integrity and you only have
to go back and look at his career and he's
the right guy right now to lead our police through
these very difficult times.
Speaker 2 (09:59):
One of the things that as one of the things
that's part of recovering trust, I guess, is getting a
sense there's been some accountability and so of my question
is are all avenues being explored because there are some
people who have resigned or retired before they were pushed
sort of thing. But are all avenues going to be
explored regarding holding those decision makers to account i e.
(10:20):
With potential obstructions of courses of justice and things like that.
Speaker 3 (10:25):
Yeah. Look, I would say that with the IPCA complaint
now us having with the IPC a report now with
us and also it's available publicly, is that there's going
to be quite a bit of work for police to
do to start working through, to start working through that
that is operational, that is for the commissioner that Yes,
the expectation from me is that they start to do
(10:45):
that work.
Speaker 2 (10:46):
Do you know if that work as underway?
Speaker 3 (10:49):
Yes, I think there's several streams that are already underway.
But that's something for the commission to speak to.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
And lastly, and it's certainly not least by the way,
victim confidence. What would you say? I mean that that's
you know, we've been frontline police and the public, but
of course the confidence of victims that they can be
taken seriously every time. What would you say to a victim?
What would you say to future victims?
Speaker 3 (11:19):
That's a really hard one because my voice probably has
sounds of it, you know, is not that strong because
of what we're dealing with and what has become exposed
to the public. All I'd say is that from my
perspective since becoming minister, where I have had a huge
focus on making sure that that standards and integrity are
(11:40):
a big part of everything that we do, I think
that the values of the police and our history dictate
that that is a focus all the time. As a
father of daughters, I was horrified when I saw the
treatment that what I felt very strongly was very poor
treatment of this young woman, and I moved and pushed
(12:00):
as hard and as far as I could as police
Minister to deal with the case that that I could
legally because there is a separation of powers the case
between gimm At skimming and who I term as the victim.
I think that the most powerful and one of the
strongest voices on this was always Nicholas, who, as you know,
(12:21):
just went through an absolute horror in terms of the
way that she was treated. Huge support from her husband
that was who I admire to in the way that
he sort of conducted himself through all of that, and
she came out and she very clearly said and condemned
the behavior of this police executive, but she said, please
do not judge our police. They have come a long way,
(12:44):
and we have got experts out there that deal with
sexual violence and family violence. They do that in a
professional way, with empathy, and they guide victims through these
very difficult court cases. There's been big movement in the
right direction of that, and I would plead and say
to anyone coming forward, please have confidence that you'll be
dealing with the best, most professional police officers of the
(13:06):
world that will take your complaints seriously and we'll and
colllect on it.
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Hey Mark, thanks very much. Hey Bud, just quickly, another
week is about to start tomorrow. I guess if you
start with Monday, what's top of your to do list.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
I'm quite so this is taking up a lot of
my time, as you'd expect it too, So I've sort
of really focused on making sure that we do what
we have to do from government to start taking the
actions that we said that we would, and that's got
to be visible and the public have to see that
happening quickly. Excellent.
Speaker 2 (13:36):
Hey Mark, thanks thanks so much for your time.
Speaker 3 (13:38):
Thanks me on to I really appreciate it. Yep.
Speaker 1 (13:41):
For more from the Weekend Collective, listen live to news
Talks'd be weekends from three pm, or follow the podcast
on iHeartRadio
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On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Ruthie's Table 4
For more than 30 years The River Cafe in London, has been the home-from-home of artists, architects, designers, actors, collectors, writers, activists, and politicians. Michael Caine, Glenn Close, JJ Abrams, Steve McQueen, Victoria and David Beckham, and Lily Allen, are just some of the people who love to call The River Cafe home. On River Cafe Table 4, Rogers sits down with her customers—who have become friends—to talk about food memories. Table 4 explores how food impacts every aspect of our lives. “Foods is politics, food is cultural, food is how you express love, food is about your heritage, it defines who you and who you want to be,” says Rogers. Each week, Rogers invites her guest to reminisce about family suppers and first dates, what they cook, how they eat when performing, the restaurants they choose, and what food they seek when they need comfort. And to punctuate each episode of Table 4, guests such as Ralph Fiennes, Emily Blunt, and Alfonso Cuarón, read their favourite recipe from one of the best-selling River Cafe cookbooks. Table 4 itself, is situated near The River Cafe’s open kitchen, close to the bright pink wood-fired oven and next to the glossy yellow pass, where Ruthie oversees the restaurant. You are invited to take a seat at this intimate table and join the conversation. For more information, recipes, and ingredients, go to https://shoptherivercafe.co.uk/ Web: https://rivercafe.co.uk/ Instagram: www.instagram.com/therivercafelondon/ Facebook: https://en-gb.facebook.com/therivercafelondon/ For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iheartradio app, apple podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
The Joe Rogan Experience
The official podcast of comedian Joe Rogan.