The Russian Alamo: Mike Lyons Talks To Armstrong & Getty

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
This is a question that became something of a joke.
My answer is direct. We are not getting prepared. We
are not working on a dirty bomb. With protests gripping
the country's universities and high schools, and strike action by teachers,
business owners, factory workers, even oil refinery workers the backbone
of Iran's economy, the call for a form and for

(00:23):
regime change is only growing louder. So what you first
heard there was a spokesman for somebody in the government
with Ukraine scene, We're not building a dirty bomb. That's ridiculous.
And then there is some belief from some people involved
in the Russian military that Putin is never going to
use nuclear weapons, which I hope is true. I really

(00:45):
really hope it's true. We welcome to the program, Miclines.
He's a military analyst we'd like to have on all
the time. I served with various military organizations in both
the United States and Europe throughout his career. UM I
went to West Point, all kinds of really cool stuff
that make you a regular guest to CNN. I see
you there all the time. I look for your your
shots on CNN. Mic Lines. Uh, thanks for joining us today.

(01:05):
Appreciate it, ob Jack, thanks so much for having me back. Yeah,
I'm following this story closely, but I feel like there's
been a dead spot in coverage for the last week
or so over what's going on with Kirsan and that
region with Can you fill us in on what's happening? Sure, So,
the tactical military guys, right, the generals and the people
that like to see the moving tanks on the ground

(01:25):
are noticing that the Ukraine military is doing very well.
They're winning battles in this area there, and they're taking
advantage of the Nepro River, which is a natural boundary
between um, let's say, Kersan and kind of the rest
of that occupied region within Ukraine that Russia has been
instance and um if if um, Ukraine can push Russia

(01:50):
out of Kirsan back across that river, and then the
question gets through Ukraine is how do they cross the
river if they want to keep this attack going. But
then also if you go a little bit further east
there there's a separation that could take place. They could
they could basically cut off the Russian military from its
supply chain that would come from from the east, and
you could have ten to twenty Russian soldiers surrounded and

(02:13):
potentially surrender. They're gonna get cold to the winner's coming, right,
So they're gonna get cold here in December and January,
and and so I think from the tactical perspective, from
the battleship space perspective, the military guys were looking at
this saying, we have a real opportunity to really put
Russia in a binding. However, Russia is still fighting the
strategic battle and they're coming back with drones, they're hitting Kiev,

(02:33):
they've got swarms, they've got all other kinds of things,
and so Ukraine has got to also worry about air defenses.
So there's multidimensional military chess taking place right now. And um,
you know, if the Ukraine military on the ground, in
the chaotic face of the battle can force Russia to
large area surrenders, they might bring them to the negotiations table.

(02:53):
Who knows. There is a pretty consequential battle perhaps being
lined up right now. Yeah, that's why I see it.
And it's not only for Carson, it's for that whole
southern region because now it threatens crime and which I
think is their alimo. Um that is non negotiable from

(03:16):
Russia's perspective. They have to have that warm water port,
and they've had it for the last hundred plus years.
They've had a an agreement with the Ukraine government to
have it. You see Elon Musk, you know, in his
tweets about trying to make peace, saying that you know,
Russia gets it. I mean, it's almost like a fate
to complete um. You know that that is something that
without that, Russia does not project power in in the

(03:37):
Middle East, doesn't project power in the Mediterranean or in
the Atlantic. It creates a significant problem for the Black Fleet.
Where does the Black Fleet go at that point? So,
so that's there, that's their Alimo, and that might be
this place where they do use those tactical nukes to
to to create a boundary between them and Ukraine as
they as they try to formulably try to retake it. Well,
I want to ask you about that, but before we

(03:58):
get to that, you know, Zelinski says it it's non
negotiable from him stand point to that you're staying in Crimea.
Of course that could be a negotiating position. Yeah, I
mean it's gonna be hard, difficult for the Ukraine people
and him in particular to you know, actually any territory.
I think back to Russia, even though they've occupied a

(04:19):
lot of those reasons. Since they've they've had influence over
at the very least, and they've influenced their Congress. It's
part of the reason why the Ukraine government was in
such turmoil for the past few years because they so
many of the politicians in that part of Ukraine were
on Russia's side. And um, you know, it's hard again
today's world, all of a sudden cutting up this country

(04:39):
and then having its slice to Russia. But that might
be the likely scenario espectly, you know, they could start
building a wall, you know, get back to the nineteen
fifties technology here, and they start building up wall between
those two areas, and then it becomes, you know, really
a pretty large demarcation line. I want to talk about
the nuke thing before I get to that. I was
going to read from a piece later in the program
from Day but French and the Dispatch, who continues to

(05:02):
make the argument that this is the most consequential story
in the world, is what happens with Ukraine and Russia,
and making the argument for why we need to continue
to support the Ukrainians etter, etcetera. Would you agree that
it is the most consequential thing going on right now? Um,
for now, I say it's no. It's it's a regional
conflict and it has more impact on what happens in Europe.
And for those people who are globalists, they might think

(05:24):
that's the case. But really, at the end of the day,
this is a regional conflict. It does not. You know,
it's important for the United States from a from a
national security perspective, but it's not. It's not the most important.
We've got to keep our eye clearly on our main threat,
and that's China, and that's what could happen in the Pacific.
I think we can do what we can as an
infrastructure to support the Ukraine military. I mean what's happening is,

(05:47):
for example, of year defense platforms that we ordered the
the army order fifty of them. Let's say I think
that's what the number was fifty from raytheon and I
think we've bumped that number down to allow twenty of
them to be built for Ukraine. They won't get there
till the spraying, and it might not even matter. So
those are the kind of things we're doing in our country.
To try to help this, but from our national security perspective,

(06:07):
it's not you know, up in troops there, it's not
it's not enough to start World War three, that's for sure.
Well I'm glad to ask you. So you don't think
if this went the wrong way in Russia gets to
keep a big chunk of Ukraine, that that destabilizes the
world so much that it's the most important story out there.
I don't. And it all comes down to back to

(06:28):
what these European countries do when that potentially happens. If
they you know, everybody wants the world to go back
to February twenty three, right, they all want they want,
they want the oil, they want, you know, they want
to happen. But that that won't happen. So look at
the Germans. The Germans have decided to go ahead and
sell China a quarter of one of their major ports

(06:48):
in Hamburg. I mean, like no one's learning, no one's
realizing where the world is going here and how it's getting,
you know, kind of divided up. I think that we
have to recognize it. You know, when when there's finally
peace in Ukraine, at some point, there will be something
called Ukraine left over and the and the west to
do what it can to rebuild that country. But but
anything to the east of it, we've got to be

(07:11):
dealt with, and we've got to recognize we have to
cut that off and not have these kind of relationships
with that that will allow them to expand their imperialistic motives,
because that's what they're trying to do. Great Glad, I asked, Glad,
we got that point of view. Now to the nuclear
weapon thing. Why is Russia claiming that the Ukrainians are
going to use a dirty bomb? What do you think
is going on there? Yeah, it's false flag stuff, you know,

(07:32):
the Prutent playbook right, all that, all those things, you know,
these guys talk about it. It is. Um it's a
scorched earth type uh strategy or tactic. Actually that doesn't
do anybody any good. If they decide to destroy the
nuclear plant and typ of Reza for example, or um,
you know, use some kind of chemical that will have

(07:53):
a long term effect. I mean obviously a nuclear type
implosion or something would be a lot worse. Um, the
dirty bombs are you know terror type weapons systems that
that you know deployed in subway systems for example, designed
to you know, kind of killed quickly and terrorize the population.
Russia is going to wreck anything that can't keep it's

(08:14):
going to wreck, and we have to say that that's
what's gonna happen and know that they have the capability
to do that, and they're not going to stop. It's
in their DNA. They're not stopping, and they're going to
continue to fight this. They're not going to give up
the winner. For example, They're gonna do whatever they can
as the drones and the and the missile systems they're
targeting right now, the infrastructure, energy, infrastructure. They're going right
after the heart of Kiev. They're going to try to

(08:34):
put as many Ukraine in the cold and the dark
as possible they can for for this winter. They're not
gonna They're not gonna give that opportunity up. So you
are uniquely qualified to talk about this whole using a
tactical nuke, Explain what your background is in that, and
then how Russian might Russia might use that to escalate
to de escalate there in Crimea. So I was a

(08:55):
tactile nuclear officer in Europe in the in the nineteen
eighties when we had those weapons systems, and if we
were going to use them, we'd use them in the
retreat um as because they fire a certain distance let's say,
anywhere from eighteen to twenty miles ahead, and they would
render that area, you know, in an inhabitable for a
certain period of time. They they are combat multipliers, and

(09:17):
they also kind of fixed conventional forces in play because
they can't then come through those areas, and that's likely
what they could possibly do in crime if they if
they use that as kind of the last ditch effort.
Now we would be able to monitor whether they're in
theater or not, using satellites, using different technologies to say
um but um. But they're also dangerous and given the

(09:38):
fact that they haven't necessarily have fired one, they're like
they're most likely delivered by artillery. They could blow up
in the twos, they could destroy Russian units that are
trying to use them themselves. So there's lots of things
that can go wrong still with what's going there when
it comes to using a nuclear weapon, which in most
cases that's why they'll be used at the at the
episolute very last use. So was our policy. See back

(10:00):
when you're dealing with this during the Cold War, if
we were getting overrun by you know, the Soviet Union,
I'll have decided, you know what, We're gonna try to
take more of Europe. If we were getting overrun, we
would have used a tactical nuke to to give us
ourselves some time to regroup or whatever. Yeah, absolutely, we
had them in our in our battery. We would have
we practice taking them on our tactical exercises, and we

(10:25):
practice going through the authentication codes of having them released
and actually using them. And they were not used in
the office. They weren't intensively used in the offense. I mean,
I can talk about this now. It's all be classified.
The General Defense Plane of Europe's called the thirty three
double A one. I'm shore any of your listeners that
were back then, they probably bringing back a good memory
of it. But but that's what it was all about.
It was using a tactical nuke in order to buy

(10:47):
us time to to retreat because we were outnumbered and
outguns six to one, ten to one in terms of
people back then, and that was the way we were
going to defend Western Europe in the mid eighties. Well,
that's interesting. So I'm and I'm far from a Putin apologist.
But so it wasn't unthinkable for us to do that
if we were getting our asses kicked in retreating, so

(11:07):
Russia might do the same. Yeah, that's exactly right, and
it's their perception. If they are, you know, not doing
well and if their conventional forces aren't aren't doing that
that I The thing is, they probably have enough conventional
firepower to at least hold that off, and if they
if they have to cross it, it's going to again
it's likely that last piece in CRIMEA that they would.

(11:28):
They would if they think that that's being threatened. That
might be that only time. But what it does, again
fixes the conventional forces on the other side, because once
you fire tactical nukes across the front, then you're not
seeing conventional forces going in that area or anytime soon.
It renders that area uninhabitable. Aren't some of these videos amazing?
And these fat old men are young kids with buying
their own uniforms and no weapons, no food, no water

(11:50):
and everything. It's just incredible. Yeah. The thing is, you know,
we don't fight that way obviously, but for every one
of those you see, there's nine other Russians that are
doing because they know that if they don't do it,
you know, if they try to get away, they're gonna
get shot in the back or something like that. And um,
you know, Russia is trying to buy time. You saw
them making a deal with Belarus, for example, to use

(12:12):
some kind of joint task force. They need, you know,
twenty troops right now. If they had twenty kind of
shock troops that were trained for the last six months
that were you know, good at soldiering and good at
doing this, it would be very influential on the battle
field right now. They just don't have that. So both
sides are war atrition taking place on both sides are

(12:32):
being treated down and Russia is just peacemealing holes in
the lines here. But if they can, if either side
can come up with affordable force, it would influence the
tactical battle and and and really you know, win the
day for for example. Interesting stuff. That's why I follow
Mike Lions on Twitter and perk up whenever I see
him on cable News. Thanks for coming on with us today.
I appreciate it. Thanks for me