February 7, 2024 • 32 mins
Description: Embark on a journey of self-discovery and professional growth, where we unravel the intricacies of modern-day career development and its pivotal role in personal and organizational success.
Resources:
Developing Career Paths Resource
Let's Connect:
Guest LinkedIn Profile - Amanda Mosteller
Host LinkedIn Profile - Sophie Boler
Transcript:
Transcripts are computer generated -- not 100% accurate word-for-word.
00:00:00:00 - 00:00:21:04 Unknown Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minute Thrive, your go to podcast for anything and everything HR, powered by MRA, the Management Association. Looking to stay on top of the ever changing world of HR? MRA has got you covered. We'll be the first to tell you what's hot and what's not. I'm your host, Sophie Boler and we are so glad you're here.
00:00:21:05 - 00:00:44:01 Unknown Now it's time to thrive. All right, Well, hi, everybody, and thanks for joining us today. And today's podcast, we're going to be talking about career pathing. And I'm joined by Amanda Mosteller, who is MRA's director of talent development and organizational development. So we really have a true career expert with us today. So I welcome you back, Amanda. You always do such a great job.
00:00:44:01 - 00:01:12:21 Unknown So I'm excited for this topic. Thanks for having me back and I love this topic as well. So, absolutely. And I know I talked a little bit about this before, but I know crew passing is not just for younger emerging leaders who have just started out in the workforce. It's really for everybody. So I guess kind of diving in then what is career path and exactly in why would you say it's important for an organization?
00:01:12:23 - 00:01:54:17 Unknown Yeah. So career pathing is typically quite what you would think. It would sound like taking a role or a career from entry into the organization and mapping out the path within that career within your organization. Why it's important is because it gives people a roadmap to see where they can go. Whether I'm coming in new to my career, as you were mentioning, or just newer to the organization, I might be popping in mid-level, but just seeing what is the opportunity for me in this role, in this space, in this organization?
00:01:54:17 - 00:02:22:21 Unknown What does that pathway look like? Is it mapped out? Is it defined? And can somebody walk me through it? Helps initially engage folks in not only their current space, but seeing the potential. I was just talking with my mother the other day about how I had 27 and a half years left before retirement. All right. Almost there. So close.
00:02:22:23 - 00:02:47:03 Unknown And I said to her, gosh, 27 and a half years, that feels like a long time. And if I thought in our organization, those 27 and a half years are in this role I'm in right now and there's nowhere else to go, no other way to grow my skills or move eventually into other spaces and roles within the organization.
00:02:47:04 - 00:03:19:16 Unknown That really becomes a defeating lot regardless of how much you love an organization. And I love being a part of me very much. But 27 and a half years in one role feels like a long time right? So that's why it's so important, that opportunity to look forward in your future and see evolution for yourself happening within an organization creates that that engagement and that increased retention and that connection to the company.
00:03:19:18 - 00:03:51:10 Unknown Yeah, for sure. This is something I think Jim Morgan talks about in some of his talent reports. I feel like speaking speaking for like a younger generation employee, surely, like when you're getting a job, like you talk about your current role, but it's like the career path is just as important as like this job that you're getting. So, I don't know, ju
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minuteThrive, your go to podcast for anything
and everything HR, powered by MRA,the Management Association.
Looking to stay on top of the everchanging world of HR?
MRA has got you covered.
We'll be the first to tell you what's hotand what's not.
I'm your host, Sophie Bolerand we are so glad you're here.
(00:21):
Now it's time to thrive.
All right, Well, hi, everybody,and thanks for joining us today.
And today's podcast, we're going to betalking about career pathing.
And I'm joined by Amanda Mosteller,who is MRA's director
of talent developmentand organizational development.
So we really have a true career expertwith us today.
So I welcome you back, Amanda.
(00:42):
You always do such a great job.
So I'm excited for this topic.
Thanks for having me backand I love this topic as well.
So, absolutely.
And I know
I talked a little bit about this before,but I know crew passing is not just for
younger emerging leaders who have juststarted out in the workforce.
It's really for everybody.
So I guess kind of diving in
(01:05):
then what is career path and exactly in
why would you say it's importantfor an organization?
Yeah.
So career pathing is typically quitewhat you would think.
It would sound like taking a role
or a career from entryinto the organization
(01:27):
and mapping out the path within thatcareer within your organization.
Why it's
important is because it gives peoplea roadmap to see where they can go.
Whether I'm coming in new to my career,as you were mentioning,
or just newer to the organization,I might be popping in mid-level,
but just seeingwhat is the opportunity for me
(01:50):
in this role,in this space, in this organization?
What does that pathway look like?
Is it mapped out? Is it defined?
And can somebody walk me through it?
Helps initially engage folks in
not only their current space,but seeing the potential.
I was just talking with my motherthe other day
(02:13):
about how I had 27
and a half years left before retirement.
All right. Almost there.
So close.
And I said to her, gosh, 27
and a half years,that feels like a long time.
And if I thought in our organization,
(02:34):
those 27 and a half years are in this roleI'm in right now
and there's nowhere else to go,no other way to grow my skills
or move eventually into other spacesand roles within the organization.
That really becomes a defeating lot
regardlessof how much you love an organization.
And I love being a part of me very much.
(02:55):
But 27 and a half years in one rolefeels like a long time right?
So that's why it's so important,
that opportunityto look forward in your future
and see evolution for yourself happeningwithin an organization
creates that that engagement
(03:15):
and that increased retentionand that connection to the company.
Yeah, for sure.
This is something I think Jim Morgan talksabout in some of his talent reports.
I feel like speaking
speaking for like a younger generationemployee,
surely, like when you're getting a job,like you talk about your current role,
(03:37):
but it's like the careerpath is just as important as like
this job that you're getting.
So, I don't know, just talking to friends,I know some of them are like, Hey,
if they don't kind of map out
where I'm going to be in the next coupleof years, I'm not interested.
So I know how important it is now.
And I know you'll get to kind of likethe evolution of it, how it's changed.
(03:58):
But I just I've seen like a very bigemphasis on career passing and making sure
that employers talk about itright away in the interview process even.
That's such a good point.
In doing interviewsin the past six months,
I have noticed an increase in peopleasking me instead of my saying,
(04:21):
Where do you see yourself in the next3 to 5 years?
That standard question and most people,if they're any type
of practice to interview viewers,they are with your organization.
But if I have them turning aroundasking me
what's the growth opportunityfor this type of role
within your organizationand to get to where you're mentioning
(04:45):
where we'll go during our conversationtoday, questions
changing around what's the growthopportunity in your department?
That's not the question as much anymore aswhat's my growth opportunity
in your organization?Meaning your company.
So within the company you work for,not just your department.
And that's that's telling thatpeople are asking an interviewer
(05:07):
is they're asking the hiring managerand they're changing their wording.
And that's on purpose again, too.
So then canyou kind of talk about how career
passing has evolved throughout the years?
And then why is that evolutionreally crucial
for both employers and employees?
(05:28):
Well, get to it like now. So.
So traditionally, a career path.
As an example for a sales professional,you come into an organization
and you might be working foot in the door.
Well,at lead generation and lead uncovering
and then handing those leads offto a salesperson.
(05:52):
And that salesperson might have salesengineers come in
depending on what they're selling.
Eventually you become a sales manager.
There might be an accountexecutive in there
where the size of territory orthe size of client gets bigger and bigger.
So you're getting bigger deals,eventually become a sales manager,
then you become the sales director,then you become the sales VP, right?
(06:14):
Very linear career path
and that is a defined career path.
All within one type of job, rolebuilding on one another.
That's the traditional career path.
How it has evolved is people no longer
think of a career path as a linearwithin this same type of job role.
(06:39):
I mentioned that question changingthe wording of the question changing,
and that's because people are startingto say what skills and abilities
can your organizationprovide me for myself
that I can apply as I grow in my career?
People we know individualscoming to an organization
(07:00):
and staying for 15, 20,30 years is less and less common.
Regardless of how amazing your cultureis, regardless of how
engaging and supportive and developmentfocused your organization might be.
And that'sbecause if I'm sitting and waiting
to become that leaderor that manager or that next role,
(07:23):
that means I'm waiting for somebody elseto choose to leave in.
That can take a very long time, especiallythe higher up in an organization you go.
So people are looking more for
what knowledge, skills and abilitiescan you give me?
Not necessarily just in one space,
but cross-functionallyin your organization?
(07:44):
What that
meansis, as people are asking that question
and that question is changing, instead ofwhat is the growth opportunity
in your department to what is the growthopportunity in your organization?
I might come in the dooras a sales individual
and skills that I'm looking for
around maintainingmultiple projects, time management
(08:09):
skills, influencing for others,maybe owning a big opportunity
within my organizationand getting buy in across all groups.
Those are all skillsthat can translate to any job role.
So what I might findas I come in as a lead generation expert
in a sales space and within two years I'mmoving over to the marketing department
(08:32):
because I'm starting to honewhat does the buyer look for
and how do I communicate that to the buyereffectively?
And marketing doesa lot of that stuff also.
So as I'm honing those skills,an opportunity in marketing is opened up
and I might look over thereto start building that skill.
Now I have uncovering needsand I have really translating
(08:55):
to what the buyer is looking forthrough my marketing expertise
and then an opportunityin our bigger project management
group opens upsome of the skills I've been looking for.
If I want to become a leader
someday does include managingmultiple irons in the fire.
I need to be able to do that.
So I'll move over to that rolebecause now I'm continuing to
(09:19):
developthese knowledge, skills and abilities
that eventually will get meinto leadership positions.
Now look at all these different spaces.
I've been within one company,so when we talk about
creating this modern evolved wayof looking at career pathing,
talk about engagement and retention,
(09:39):
people aren't waitingtill the next account executive leaves
so that an account managercan become an account executive
so that a lead generatorcould become an account manager.
You're doing a lot of waiting.
That's what you're relyingon your organization to do.
And so looking at this evolution of career
passing instead onwhere do you want to be in five years?
(10:02):
Where do you want to be in ten years?
Do you want to move into leadership?
What types of skillsdo you want to grow in
an eye as your organizationcan help identify opportunities
for you that leverage those skillsand will develop those skills in you?
You've createda different kind of career path
(10:22):
that will really build your bench.
I mean, now you have folks really learningall these different areas
of your business,
creating lots of effective, impactful
needed skills as they move up
and a well-rounded employee base,
of course, THRIVEs a really effectiveand impactful organization.
(10:45):
So what is modern day career path thing?
What is it evolve to?
Not linearis what you really spiderweb it in a way.
And yeah, focusing on transferable skills.
Why is it crucial? For the same reasons.
Everything else that we talk aboutin terms of development and culture
(11:10):
and buildingyour bench and growth is crucial.
It's it's engagement for your employees,which creates high,
effective, high, impactful workforcesto THRIVE your business's success.
Yeah, that's a great point.
And I feel like they've even startedstarted the whole career passing thing,
even on like when you're an intern,I know some intern programs.
(11:33):
It's now not just focusedon the type of internship you have.
Maybe you're marketing intern,
but they're putting youthrough all different departments
so that you can start to seewhat the organization is as a whole.
And then you're also gaining skillsfrom each of those departments.
But your focus is a marketing term,but later
(11:54):
on, maybe when you're applying for jobs,
that's when you can apply what you'velearned in the other departments.
Kind of like what you said, the universal,universal transferable skills.
So that leads me to another question on
can you give any examplesof how individuals can really assess
(12:15):
those skills and interestsand even identify them?
How do they know that?
Yeah, So firstit takes some self-reflection
when you get asked that question of
where do you want to be in five years,you better know the answer.
Where do you want to be?
If the answer is not a people leader,that's important to know
(12:38):
because that's a different set of skillsthat we could develop in
somebodythat you might not be interested in.
If it is becomingjust the best of the best
and in your space, then let's identifywhat the best of the best looks like
when we talk about how can
you identify it,how do you know what to work on?
(13:00):
There are
I think it's a common misnomerthat a 360 tool
is something that only a leader
in a high level leader should go through.
Three sixteens or just one eighties
even,but are excellent sources of identifying
(13:21):
your hidden strengths,your blind spots and things like that.
And then identifyingdoes that apply in the job?
Well, I want the job well, I have.
I might have a blind spot in an areathat I don't need to use right now anyway.
And so I'm not going to focus my energyon developing it.
But to that question ofwhere am I trying to go with my career,
(13:46):
I might need itwhen I try to get to that level.
So what do I start developing now?
So knowingthe answer to the question is number one,
knowing that there are tools out there
that give you a well-rounded viewof just universal competencies.
Two, they don't have to be relatedto a certain type of leadership.
(14:09):
There are tools out three, sixtools out there that that we utilize that
could apply just just to an individual.
Then the third one is start looking aroundat your organization,
at what roles pique your interest,
have conversations with your managerand with your peers around.
What about those roles?
(14:30):
Pique your interest
so that you can start to get a viewof what types of skills and activities
are enticing to you and engaging to youthat you want to learn how to try out.
So what?
What levels and a careerdo I want to achieve?
That's an answeryou have to figure out for yourself.
(14:51):
It might take some self-reflection
and chatting with folkswithin your organization to see whether
that's something of interest, chattingwith your folks in your network outside
of your current organizationto see if that's something of interest.
Using some toolsthat aren't just self reflection.
Because I love to THRIVE self awareness.
(15:13):
Very few of us are just fully self awarein all of our strengths and the way we get
self-awareness is by having somebody elsegive us some feedback.
So looking at some toolsthat are out there for that
and then starting to chatabout what job roles
are interesting to youand why do shadowing.
Go spend a daywatching that job role to see
(15:33):
if it is interesting it cIt might sound cool.
We can create some really cool job titles.
That doesn't mean the role is as excitingas someone might think. So
figuringout what's going on in your organization
role wise,asking for opportunities to shadow,
and then sitting downwith with your manager
to say, Here's what really did interest meabout that role.
(15:56):
And then that can create
we canyou can start to get an idea of what types
of jobs interest you and thereforewhat skills might be transferable
to those jobs within your organizationor any organization.
And to your point, sometimesit's hard to identify your own skills
and maybe you only have a couple
(16:17):
that you write down or couplethat you're definitely self aware of.
But or it's like personallyhelp me as to like just taking a step back
and asking maybe it's your manageror just a peer at work. Like
in some their opinion.
I know I've done that before
and they're like, Well, you know,you did this project and I think you did
(16:38):
a really good job on these thingsduring that project.
Maybe you should start looking at that.
So I think just trying to be outsidesometimes
and getting their perspective helps too,when you're doing some of that stuff.
Yeah, it has to be somebodythat you would define as like.
And I talk to folks about this a lotand I say, Don't let the phrasing
(16:59):
throw you off, but a safe person.
And what I mean by that is somebody thatI think I've talked about this before,
but somebody that you're opento their feedback,
they will be honest with you,not in a hurtful way.
So they're safe from that perspective.
They'll be honest with you,
but they're also somebody that you valueand trust their opinion
so you'll be less resistantif you hear something you don't like.
(17:22):
So who are those people that you could ask
how that project went and you'd be opento hearing if they didn't
basically just sing your praisesand tell you how amazing you are, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, kind of moving on here.
We've talked about this on the podcast,but we also hear it a lot
about work life balance.
(17:43):
So I'm kind of thinking about that.
What advice do you have for individualswho are trying to balance
their personal lifeand their professional goals
while they're planning their career path?
You know, I've I've mentioned upuntil now about competencies
and what are the elements of that role
(18:04):
you likeand what are things that they're doing.
But there are also,depending on where you want
your career to go, educationrequirements, certification requirements.
I mean, if you want to bethe best of the best and managing
large projects, you probably want to goget your PMP certifications.
So what does that look like?
(18:24):
So connect your HR Departmentand and i know we're in HR Organization.
And so, of course, amanda'sgoing to say go talk to HR But for real,
your HR
department as all of these,you know, job descriptions
which which they can look at trending leeAnd they also know, you know, trending.
(18:44):
Lee Okay, you're talking aboutbeing a people leader one day.
Most of the time, people leaders tendto require a certain level of education
requirement, not always, butmost of the time they'll certainly know
in their own organization what's requiredto see whether you have that.
Are there certain certificationsthat are required?
Because if if that's an opportunityfor you that you want to this balance,
(19:07):
they'll also know what resourcesare out there to help you start
going down that pathand how much is too much right away.
So we have team members
that moveinto the learning and development space.
And if you want to be the best of the bestin certain
things, there are certificationswe would encourage you to get.
(19:30):
Some of them are quick and easyto do certificates.
Some of them are larger, you know,
six month to a yearand several tests certifications
depending on your goalsand your aspirations for your career,
we might say you should gothe certification route.
It takes a bit longer.
Here are several different waysto do that, and we can talk through what
(19:53):
makes the most sense and when startingmakes the most sense for somebody.
So the balance becomes
what things outside of shadowingin my organization and talking to mentors
and doing some developmentwithin my daily work hours,
what else is out there and what else mightI need to invest my time and energy into
(20:18):
to get to the level of what
I'm aspiring to get to?
This to the same wordMoore claims in one sentence. But
because someof the stuff you just can't do it work,
there's just going to be some things that
that would be more impactful.
(20:38):
A pimp certification, for example,
whether you want to be a project manageror not, that teaches you
a lot of great organizationaland executional structure
and how to keep peopleand a large group on track
and how to communicate effectivelyand what metrics you can utilize
to not only measure successbut identify budgets.
(21:00):
And there's a lot of things
that would be transferable to other rolesthat that certification would teach you.
And then goingand trying it at an organization.
But you can't get that throughmany of your own internal companies.
You have to go somewhere to prep for thatand take the test.
So there's going to be outside work
(21:21):
put into it.
So it's talk with your HR Department.
They know those kinds of things.
They have that knowledge.Yeah, absolutely.
What we're talking aboutbuilding your career path.
How can individuals really align theirpersonal values with their career choices?
And why is that alignment really important
(21:41):
for long term satisfaction?
This is where i always encourage
folks, excuse me, to really leanon their network, whether it is
an internal network or their networkoutside of their organization,
because
(22:02):
values of time,
values of family, values of excitementin travel,
the values around
what you just are comfortableand not comfortable doing,
whether you will ever bethe person that does that or not.
Those are thingsthat you really need to understand.
Does this industry require that?
(22:24):
Does this level of careergrowth require that?
There was for myself, for example,
there was a longtime where I had a vision of
sea level at a high international company
that was my I will be that somedayI will be a chief learning officer.
(22:46):
I was very adamantthat was going to be the end.
That's my where I'm trying to get to.
And then things in my life changed
and I continue to evolveand I said as I started to connect
with mentors in the space
and those that are at that level,
(23:08):
it's a very exciting level.
But I started to say, Gosh, you're you're,you're always on an international level
that includes travel.
Do I really want to travel?
I got to work at an international company
and started to recognizeI want to be home at my values.
You know, I want to be at home at nightto help my kids do their schoolwork.
(23:29):
I want that on my own.
No one's telling me to do that.
It's just something I want.
And so it reallyit really made me pause and think.
So I think before you start to go downthe path of investing your time
and your energy and your plansand your excitement into something,
really understandthe whole of what that role looks like
(23:54):
to see
if it's what you want and also continueto reassess
what I wanted at 25 and what I want now.
My birthday is tomorrow.
So what I wantas I turn a milestone birthday
tomorrow are vastly different.
And I think that's somethingwe need to remember too,
(24:14):
in this whole conversation is
it is okay for your career path to change?
Yeah, that's a great point.
That's you need to.
I thought that in the shownotes, it's okay.
That is change.
So I feel like a lot of people want thingskind of set in stone.
Like, like you said, like I wantto be here and that's where I'm going.
(24:36):
But it is okay if it's if things change.
So I told my husbandwe were having one of those big, you know,
rarely in our lives conversationsthat we one tends to have.
And I said, gosh, if we could pull it off,
I would totally be happy to just,you know,
(24:56):
retire and well, who wouldn't be happy toin the next five years?
So, you know, he'd always gone on this.
You want to be a C-suite.
I mean, we talked about thisfor a very long time.
So my move to say,I think I just like to write,
I think I would be very happy,
you know, stepping back and writing
(25:17):
and just write books and write articlesand just do that.
And he was like, okay, well,
I don't think one a different
one doesn't just do that.
Five years ago, I invested some time.
I thought, maybe I want to be there, see,like I don't want to be a C-suite leader
in a giant international company.
I've learned I don't want that.
That didn't align with my values.
(25:39):
I want to run my own business.
That's what I want to do.
So I went through the processto get my LLC and I went
and got individually certifiedin several things so that I was
a certified seller of those thingsto THRIVE my business.
And then I started
building my network of of othersin this space with their own LLC.
(26:00):
And for some reasonin my head, I'd be less busy
if I ran my own business.
I'm not sure what I was thinking.
Newsflash, everyone, you're not less busy.
You're having.
It's fun.
So. So then I thought, Well, I'm home
with my kids, so I'm not travelinginternationally, but I'm working at night
(26:23):
and in the morningand on weekends and always.
And I was like, That doesn't really alignwith my values either.
So it's okay to to have your career pathchange up. And
I think the big value to an organizationis recognizing people do that too.
They can invest your time in somebodythat,
you know, came inand they were really excited
(26:44):
and then they all of a suddensit down with you ten years later.
And they're like, So I've been thinking
for a while, wrapping up here today.
I know we've givena lot of great practical,
practical steps,but do you have any last steps or pieces
of advice that employees and employerscan really take to create
(27:05):
their own personalized careerpath and plan?
And if you have any resources that you kind of want to draw up here
today, I think that would be a good endingto that.
So, yeah, so a great step
for organizationsis to create that kind of open door
(27:28):
conversation processwhere employees can come and chat with HR
About what are job rolesand what are kind of
some universal expectationsat different levels
within the organization or different jobroles.
Are there certain certificationsthat i'm completely unaware of and
and for the organizationto have an understanding
(27:49):
of resourcesyou can connect team members to.
It's excellent to have tuitionreimbursement, it's excellent to have
certification.
You know, spotlight staffs or bonuses
if you go get the certificationor will pay you back for it.
But to also have that resourcebank of where people can go to get
(28:11):
those certifications and especially,you know, price preferred means for you
as an organization,
build that resource bankso that when folks do ask their managers
or do come to your company'sHR Department, you have an answer for them
from an individual
perspective,it is one of the answer to that question.
(28:33):
So do some self-reflectionand prepare that kind of stuff,
but also take some stock.
And it doesn't have to bea full 360 assessment tool or anything.
But to the resources, whatwhat would I consider my strengths to be?
Look at the job descriptionyou applied for.
(28:54):
What about it made you apply for it?
If you can look back at differentroles, you've had within your career,
what are those skillsyou've built up over time?
Create your own skill bank
so that you can reflect back on thatskill bank and say, Here's all the things
I've learned, here's what I have, here'show I know I'm strong in it.
What gaps am I seeing?
(29:14):
Because only you knowyour career better than anybody else.
So when you know what things you've donebetter than anybody else.
So really take your own self-assessment,make your own list of what you've created
and what your strengths are,so that when you go have
that conversation,folks can try to help you say,
this type of job role utilizesthat this type of job or utilizes that
(29:36):
to help you get a sense for those things,
you can go to it
from a resource perspective,
depending on the industry space
that you do thinkyou want your career to grow in. Again,
it might not be a specific job role,but it might be an industry specific.
(29:57):
There can be lots of industry competency
models out there that you can do your own.
Do I think I need to grow?
I'm I'm strong in thisor have mastered it.
ATD has one for learning and developmentprofessionals.
They have one for sales professionals.
(30:18):
Sherm has them for HR Professionals
and hrc has them for HR Professionals.
P i don't even know who does the vp the
project manager
certifications, but
it really depends on industry space,
(30:41):
where or whatassessment tools are out there
to find out where you arewithin that space.
But there's tons of them out there.
Just give it a google
and you will find
find lots of resource is depending onwhat industry peaks your interest and why.
Yeah, for sure you can put some resources
(31:02):
that we use in the show notes below as well.
But that was, that was great advice.
And with Amanda and I thinkeveryone, whomever where they are in
their career can relate to this somehow,which is, which is really great.
So thank you for coming on todayand being today's guest
and really sharing your expertisein this area.
(31:24):
I always love your examplesand the tools that you share
to our listeners.
If you liked our chat and topic today,
don't forget to share our episodeand consider joining MRA.
If you aren't a member already.
Like I said, we have all the resourcesyou need in the show notes
below, including resources on this topic.
Career paths and the course.
(31:45):
We'd love to hear from you,so feel free to chime in
and share any great success storiesthat you've had
of your own careerpath or career path planning otherwise.
Thank you so much againfor tuning in today and we will see
you all next week.
That wraps up our contentfor this episode.
Be sure to reference the show noteswhere you can sign in to connect.
(32:06):
For more podcast updates,
check out other MRA episodeson your favorite podcast platform.
And as always, make sure to follow MRA's30 minutes THRIVE
so you don't miss out.Thanks for tuning in
and we'll see you next Wednesdayto carry on the conversation.
Hello everybody and welcome to 30 minuteThrive, your go to podcast for anything
and everything HR, powered by MRA,the Management Association.
Looking to stay on top of the everchanging world of HR?
MRA has got you covered.
We'll be the first to tell you what's hotand what's not.
I'm your host, Sophie Bolerand we are so glad you're here.
(00:21):
Now it's time to thrive.
All right, Well, hi, everybody,and thanks for joining us today.
And today's podcast, we're going to betalking about career pathing.
And I'm joined by Amanda Mosteller,who is MRA's director
of talent developmentand organizational development.
So we really have a true career expertwith us today.
So I welcome you back, Amanda.
(00:42):
You always do such a great job.
So I'm excited for this topic.
Thanks for having me backand I love this topic as well.
So, absolutely.
And I know
I talked a little bit about this before,but I know crew passing is not just for
younger emerging leaders who have juststarted out in the workforce.
It's really for everybody.
So I guess kind of diving in
(01:05):
then what is career path and exactly in
why would you say it's importantfor an organization?
Yeah.
So career pathing is typically quitewhat you would think.
It would sound like taking a role
or a career from entryinto the organization
(01:27):
and mapping out the path within thatcareer within your organization.
Why it's
important is because it gives peoplea roadmap to see where they can go.
Whether I'm coming in new to my career,as you were mentioning,
or just newer to the organization,I might be popping in mid-level,
but just seeingwhat is the opportunity for me
(01:50):
in this role,in this space, in this organization?
What does that pathway look like?
Is it mapped out? Is it defined?
And can somebody walk me through it?
Helps initially engage folks in
not only their current space,but seeing the potential.
I was just talking with my motherthe other day
(02:13):
about how I had 27
and a half years left before retirement.
All right. Almost there.
So close.
And I said to her, gosh, 27
and a half years,that feels like a long time.
And if I thought in our organization,
(02:34):
those 27 and a half years are in this roleI'm in right now
and there's nowhere else to go,no other way to grow my skills
or move eventually into other spacesand roles within the organization.
That really becomes a defeating lot
regardlessof how much you love an organization.
And I love being a part of me very much.
(02:55):
But 27 and a half years in one rolefeels like a long time right?
So that's why it's so important,
that opportunityto look forward in your future
and see evolution for yourself happeningwithin an organization
creates that that engagement
(03:15):
and that increased retentionand that connection to the company.
Yeah, for sure.
This is something I think Jim Morgan talksabout in some of his talent reports.
I feel like speaking
speaking for like a younger generationemployee,
surely, like when you're getting a job,like you talk about your current role,
(03:37):
but it's like the careerpath is just as important as like
this job that you're getting.
So, I don't know, just talking to friends,I know some of them are like, Hey,
if they don't kind of map out
where I'm going to be in the next coupleof years, I'm not interested.
So I know how important it is now.
And I know you'll get to kind of likethe evolution of it, how it's changed.
(03:58):
But I just I've seen like a very bigemphasis on career passing and making sure
that employers talk about itright away in the interview process even.
That's such a good point.
In doing interviewsin the past six months,
I have noticed an increase in peopleasking me instead of my saying,
(04:21):
Where do you see yourself in the next3 to 5 years?
That standard question and most people,if they're any type
of practice to interview viewers,they are with your organization.
But if I have them turning aroundasking me
what's the growth opportunityfor this type of role
within your organizationand to get to where you're mentioning
(04:45):
where we'll go during our conversationtoday, questions
changing around what's the growthopportunity in your department?
That's not the question as much anymore aswhat's my growth opportunity
in your organization?Meaning your company.
So within the company you work for,not just your department.
And that's that's telling thatpeople are asking an interviewer
(05:07):
is they're asking the hiring managerand they're changing their wording.
And that's on purpose again, too.
So then canyou kind of talk about how career
passing has evolved throughout the years?
And then why is that evolutionreally crucial
for both employers and employees?
(05:28):
Well, get to it like now. So.
So traditionally, a career path.
As an example for a sales professional,you come into an organization
and you might be working foot in the door.
Well,at lead generation and lead uncovering
and then handing those leads offto a salesperson.
(05:52):
And that salesperson might have salesengineers come in
depending on what they're selling.
Eventually you become a sales manager.
There might be an accountexecutive in there
where the size of territory orthe size of client gets bigger and bigger.
So you're getting bigger deals,eventually become a sales manager,
then you become the sales director,then you become the sales VP, right?
(06:14):
Very linear career path
and that is a defined career path.
All within one type of job, rolebuilding on one another.
That's the traditional career path.
How it has evolved is people no longer
think of a career path as a linearwithin this same type of job role.
(06:39):
I mentioned that question changingthe wording of the question changing,
and that's because people are startingto say what skills and abilities
can your organizationprovide me for myself
that I can apply as I grow in my career?
People we know individualscoming to an organization
(07:00):
and staying for 15, 20,30 years is less and less common.
Regardless of how amazing your cultureis, regardless of how
engaging and supportive and developmentfocused your organization might be.
And that'sbecause if I'm sitting and waiting
to become that leaderor that manager or that next role,
(07:23):
that means I'm waiting for somebody elseto choose to leave in.
That can take a very long time, especiallythe higher up in an organization you go.
So people are looking more for
what knowledge, skills and abilitiescan you give me?
Not necessarily just in one space,
but cross-functionallyin your organization?
(07:44):
What that
meansis, as people are asking that question
and that question is changing, instead ofwhat is the growth opportunity
in your department to what is the growthopportunity in your organization?
I might come in the dooras a sales individual
and skills that I'm looking for
around maintainingmultiple projects, time management
(08:09):
skills, influencing for others,maybe owning a big opportunity
within my organizationand getting buy in across all groups.
Those are all skillsthat can translate to any job role.
So what I might findas I come in as a lead generation expert
in a sales space and within two years I'mmoving over to the marketing department
(08:32):
because I'm starting to honewhat does the buyer look for
and how do I communicate that to the buyereffectively?
And marketing doesa lot of that stuff also.
So as I'm honing those skills,an opportunity in marketing is opened up
and I might look over thereto start building that skill.
Now I have uncovering needsand I have really translating
(08:55):
to what the buyer is looking forthrough my marketing expertise
and then an opportunityin our bigger project management
group opens upsome of the skills I've been looking for.
If I want to become a leader
someday does include managingmultiple irons in the fire.
I need to be able to do that.
So I'll move over to that rolebecause now I'm continuing to
(09:19):
developthese knowledge, skills and abilities
that eventually will get meinto leadership positions.
Now look at all these different spaces.
I've been within one company,so when we talk about
creating this modern evolved wayof looking at career pathing,
talk about engagement and retention,
(09:39):
people aren't waitingtill the next account executive leaves
so that an account managercan become an account executive
so that a lead generatorcould become an account manager.
You're doing a lot of waiting.
That's what you're relyingon your organization to do.
And so looking at this evolution of career
passing instead onwhere do you want to be in five years?
(10:02):
Where do you want to be in ten years?
Do you want to move into leadership?
What types of skillsdo you want to grow in
an eye as your organizationcan help identify opportunities
for you that leverage those skillsand will develop those skills in you?
You've createda different kind of career path
(10:22):
that will really build your bench.
I mean, now you have folks really learningall these different areas
of your business,
creating lots of effective, impactful
needed skills as they move up
and a well-rounded employee base,
of course, THRIVEs a really effectiveand impactful organization.
(10:45):
So what is modern day career path thing?
What is it evolve to?
Not linearis what you really spiderweb it in a way.
And yeah, focusing on transferable skills.
Why is it crucial? For the same reasons.
Everything else that we talk aboutin terms of development and culture
(11:10):
and buildingyour bench and growth is crucial.
It's it's engagement for your employees,which creates high,
effective, high, impactful workforcesto THRIVE your business's success.
Yeah, that's a great point.
And I feel like they've even startedstarted the whole career passing thing,
even on like when you're an intern,I know some intern programs.
(11:33):
It's now not just focusedon the type of internship you have.
Maybe you're marketing intern,
but they're putting youthrough all different departments
so that you can start to seewhat the organization is as a whole.
And then you're also gaining skillsfrom each of those departments.
But your focus is a marketing term,but later
(11:54):
on, maybe when you're applying for jobs,
that's when you can apply what you'velearned in the other departments.
Kind of like what you said, the universal,universal transferable skills.
So that leads me to another question on
can you give any examplesof how individuals can really assess
(12:15):
those skills and interestsand even identify them?
How do they know that?
Yeah, So firstit takes some self-reflection
when you get asked that question of
where do you want to be in five years,you better know the answer.
Where do you want to be?
If the answer is not a people leader,that's important to know
(12:38):
because that's a different set of skillsthat we could develop in
somebodythat you might not be interested in.
If it is becomingjust the best of the best
and in your space, then let's identifywhat the best of the best looks like
when we talk about how can
you identify it,how do you know what to work on?
(13:00):
There are
I think it's a common misnomerthat a 360 tool
is something that only a leader
in a high level leader should go through.
Three sixteens or just one eighties
even,but are excellent sources of identifying
(13:21):
your hidden strengths,your blind spots and things like that.
And then identifyingdoes that apply in the job?
Well, I want the job well, I have.
I might have a blind spot in an areathat I don't need to use right now anyway.
And so I'm not going to focus my energyon developing it.
But to that question ofwhere am I trying to go with my career,
(13:46):
I might need itwhen I try to get to that level.
So what do I start developing now?
So knowingthe answer to the question is number one,
knowing that there are tools out there
that give you a well-rounded viewof just universal competencies.
Two, they don't have to be relatedto a certain type of leadership.
(14:09):
There are tools out three, sixtools out there that that we utilize that
could apply just just to an individual.
Then the third one is start looking aroundat your organization,
at what roles pique your interest,
have conversations with your managerand with your peers around.
What about those roles?
(14:30):
Pique your interest
so that you can start to get a viewof what types of skills and activities
are enticing to you and engaging to youthat you want to learn how to try out.
So what?
What levels and a careerdo I want to achieve?
That's an answeryou have to figure out for yourself.
(14:51):
It might take some self-reflection
and chatting with folkswithin your organization to see whether
that's something of interest, chattingwith your folks in your network outside
of your current organizationto see if that's something of interest.
Using some toolsthat aren't just self reflection.
Because I love to THRIVE self awareness.
(15:13):
Very few of us are just fully self awarein all of our strengths and the way we get
self-awareness is by having somebody elsegive us some feedback.
So looking at some toolsthat are out there for that
and then starting to chatabout what job roles
are interesting to youand why do shadowing.
Go spend a daywatching that job role to see
(15:33):
if it is interesting it cIt might sound cool.
We can create some really cool job titles.
That doesn't mean the role is as excitingas someone might think. So
figuringout what's going on in your organization
role wise,asking for opportunities to shadow,
and then sitting downwith with your manager
to say, Here's what really did interest meabout that role.
(15:56):
And then that can create
we canyou can start to get an idea of what types
of jobs interest you and thereforewhat skills might be transferable
to those jobs within your organizationor any organization.
And to your point, sometimesit's hard to identify your own skills
and maybe you only have a couple
(16:17):
that you write down or couplethat you're definitely self aware of.
But or it's like personallyhelp me as to like just taking a step back
and asking maybe it's your manageror just a peer at work. Like
in some their opinion.
I know I've done that before
and they're like, Well, you know,you did this project and I think you did
(16:38):
a really good job on these thingsduring that project.
Maybe you should start looking at that.
So I think just trying to be outsidesometimes
and getting their perspective helps too,when you're doing some of that stuff.
Yeah, it has to be somebodythat you would define as like.
And I talk to folks about this a lotand I say, Don't let the phrasing
(16:59):
throw you off, but a safe person.
And what I mean by that is somebody thatI think I've talked about this before,
but somebody that you're opento their feedback,
they will be honest with you,not in a hurtful way.
So they're safe from that perspective.
They'll be honest with you,
but they're also somebody that you valueand trust their opinion
so you'll be less resistantif you hear something you don't like.
(17:22):
So who are those people that you could ask
how that project went and you'd be opento hearing if they didn't
basically just sing your praisesand tell you how amazing you are, right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Well, kind of moving on here.
We've talked about this on the podcast,but we also hear it a lot
about work life balance.
(17:43):
So I'm kind of thinking about that.
What advice do you have for individualswho are trying to balance
their personal lifeand their professional goals
while they're planning their career path?
You know, I've I've mentioned upuntil now about competencies
and what are the elements of that role
(18:04):
you likeand what are things that they're doing.
But there are also,depending on where you want
your career to go, educationrequirements, certification requirements.
I mean, if you want to bethe best of the best and managing
large projects, you probably want to goget your PMP certifications.
So what does that look like?
(18:24):
So connect your HR Departmentand and i know we're in HR Organization.
And so, of course, amanda'sgoing to say go talk to HR But for real,
your HR
department as all of these,you know, job descriptions
which which they can look at trending leeAnd they also know, you know, trending.
(18:44):
Lee Okay, you're talking aboutbeing a people leader one day.
Most of the time, people leaders tendto require a certain level of education
requirement, not always, butmost of the time they'll certainly know
in their own organization what's requiredto see whether you have that.
Are there certain certificationsthat are required?
Because if if that's an opportunityfor you that you want to this balance,
(19:07):
they'll also know what resourcesare out there to help you start
going down that pathand how much is too much right away.
So we have team members
that moveinto the learning and development space.
And if you want to be the best of the bestin certain
things, there are certificationswe would encourage you to get.
(19:30):
Some of them are quick and easyto do certificates.
Some of them are larger, you know,
six month to a yearand several tests certifications
depending on your goalsand your aspirations for your career,
we might say you should gothe certification route.
It takes a bit longer.
Here are several different waysto do that, and we can talk through what
(19:53):
makes the most sense and when startingmakes the most sense for somebody.
So the balance becomes
what things outside of shadowingin my organization and talking to mentors
and doing some developmentwithin my daily work hours,
what else is out there and what else mightI need to invest my time and energy into
(20:18):
to get to the level of what
I'm aspiring to get to?
This to the same wordMoore claims in one sentence. But
because someof the stuff you just can't do it work,
there's just going to be some things that
that would be more impactful.
(20:38):
A pimp certification, for example,
whether you want to be a project manageror not, that teaches you
a lot of great organizationaland executional structure
and how to keep peopleand a large group on track
and how to communicate effectivelyand what metrics you can utilize
to not only measure successbut identify budgets.
(21:00):
And there's a lot of things
that would be transferable to other rolesthat that certification would teach you.
And then goingand trying it at an organization.
But you can't get that throughmany of your own internal companies.
You have to go somewhere to prep for thatand take the test.
So there's going to be outside work
(21:21):
put into it.
So it's talk with your HR Department.
They know those kinds of things.
They have that knowledge.Yeah, absolutely.
What we're talking aboutbuilding your career path.
How can individuals really align theirpersonal values with their career choices?
And why is that alignment really important
(21:41):
for long term satisfaction?
This is where i always encourage
folks, excuse me, to really leanon their network, whether it is
an internal network or their networkoutside of their organization,
because
(22:02):
values of time,
values of family, values of excitementin travel,
the values around
what you just are comfortableand not comfortable doing,
whether you will ever bethe person that does that or not.
Those are thingsthat you really need to understand.
Does this industry require that?
(22:24):
Does this level of careergrowth require that?
There was for myself, for example,
there was a longtime where I had a vision of
sea level at a high international company
that was my I will be that somedayI will be a chief learning officer.
(22:46):
I was very adamantthat was going to be the end.
That's my where I'm trying to get to.
And then things in my life changed
and I continue to evolveand I said as I started to connect
with mentors in the space
and those that are at that level,
(23:08):
it's a very exciting level.
But I started to say, Gosh, you're you're,you're always on an international level
that includes travel.
Do I really want to travel?
I got to work at an international company
and started to recognizeI want to be home at my values.
You know, I want to be at home at nightto help my kids do their schoolwork.
(23:29):
I want that on my own.
No one's telling me to do that.
It's just something I want.
And so it reallyit really made me pause and think.
So I think before you start to go downthe path of investing your time
and your energy and your plansand your excitement into something,
really understandthe whole of what that role looks like
(23:54):
to see
if it's what you want and also continueto reassess
what I wanted at 25 and what I want now.
My birthday is tomorrow.
So what I wantas I turn a milestone birthday
tomorrow are vastly different.
And I think that's somethingwe need to remember too,
(24:14):
in this whole conversation is
it is okay for your career path to change?
Yeah, that's a great point.
That's you need to.
I thought that in the shownotes, it's okay.
That is change.
So I feel like a lot of people want thingskind of set in stone.
Like, like you said, like I wantto be here and that's where I'm going.
(24:36):
But it is okay if it's if things change.
So I told my husbandwe were having one of those big, you know,
rarely in our lives conversationsthat we one tends to have.
And I said, gosh, if we could pull it off,
I would totally be happy to just,you know,
(24:56):
retire and well, who wouldn't be happy toin the next five years?
So, you know, he'd always gone on this.
You want to be a C-suite.
I mean, we talked about thisfor a very long time.
So my move to say,I think I just like to write,
I think I would be very happy,
you know, stepping back and writing
(25:17):
and just write books and write articlesand just do that.
And he was like, okay, well,
I don't think one a different
one doesn't just do that.
Five years ago, I invested some time.
I thought, maybe I want to be there, see,like I don't want to be a C-suite leader
in a giant international company.
I've learned I don't want that.
That didn't align with my values.
(25:39):
I want to run my own business.
That's what I want to do.
So I went through the processto get my LLC and I went
and got individually certifiedin several things so that I was
a certified seller of those thingsto THRIVE my business.
And then I started
building my network of of othersin this space with their own LLC.
(26:00):
And for some reasonin my head, I'd be less busy
if I ran my own business.
I'm not sure what I was thinking.
Newsflash, everyone, you're not less busy.
You're having.
It's fun.
So. So then I thought, Well, I'm home
with my kids, so I'm not travelinginternationally, but I'm working at night
(26:23):
and in the morningand on weekends and always.
And I was like, That doesn't really alignwith my values either.
So it's okay to to have your career pathchange up. And
I think the big value to an organizationis recognizing people do that too.
They can invest your time in somebodythat,
you know, came inand they were really excited
(26:44):
and then they all of a suddensit down with you ten years later.
And they're like, So I've been thinking
for a while, wrapping up here today.
I know we've givena lot of great practical,
practical steps,but do you have any last steps or pieces
of advice that employees and employerscan really take to create
(27:05):
their own personalized careerpath and plan?
And if you have any resources that you kind of want to draw up here
today, I think that would be a good endingto that.
So, yeah, so a great step
for organizationsis to create that kind of open door
(27:28):
conversation processwhere employees can come and chat with HR
About what are job rolesand what are kind of
some universal expectationsat different levels
within the organization or different jobroles.
Are there certain certificationsthat i'm completely unaware of and
and for the organizationto have an understanding
(27:49):
of resourcesyou can connect team members to.
It's excellent to have tuitionreimbursement, it's excellent to have
certification.
You know, spotlight staffs or bonuses
if you go get the certificationor will pay you back for it.
But to also have that resourcebank of where people can go to get
(28:11):
those certifications and especially,you know, price preferred means for you
as an organization,
build that resource bankso that when folks do ask their managers
or do come to your company'sHR Department, you have an answer for them
from an individual
perspective,it is one of the answer to that question.
(28:33):
So do some self-reflectionand prepare that kind of stuff,
but also take some stock.
And it doesn't have to bea full 360 assessment tool or anything.
But to the resources, whatwhat would I consider my strengths to be?
Look at the job descriptionyou applied for.
(28:54):
What about it made you apply for it?
If you can look back at differentroles, you've had within your career,
what are those skillsyou've built up over time?
Create your own skill bank
so that you can reflect back on thatskill bank and say, Here's all the things
I've learned, here's what I have, here'show I know I'm strong in it.
What gaps am I seeing?
(29:14):
Because only you knowyour career better than anybody else.
So when you know what things you've donebetter than anybody else.
So really take your own self-assessment,make your own list of what you've created
and what your strengths are,so that when you go have
that conversation,folks can try to help you say,
this type of job role utilizesthat this type of job or utilizes that
(29:36):
to help you get a sense for those things,
you can go to it
from a resource perspective,
depending on the industry space
that you do thinkyou want your career to grow in. Again,
it might not be a specific job role,but it might be an industry specific.
(29:57):
There can be lots of industry competency
models out there that you can do your own.
Do I think I need to grow?
I'm I'm strong in thisor have mastered it.
ATD has one for learning and developmentprofessionals.
They have one for sales professionals.
(30:18):
Sherm has them for HR Professionals
and hrc has them for HR Professionals.
P i don't even know who does the vp the
project manager
certifications, but
it really depends on industry space,
(30:41):
where or whatassessment tools are out there
to find out where you arewithin that space.
But there's tons of them out there.
Just give it a google
and you will find
find lots of resource is depending onwhat industry peaks your interest and why.
Yeah, for sure you can put some resources
(31:02):
that we use in the show notes below as well.
But that was, that was great advice.
And with Amanda and I thinkeveryone, whomever where they are in
their career can relate to this somehow,which is, which is really great.
So thank you for coming on todayand being today's guest
and really sharing your expertisein this area.
(31:24):
I always love your examplesand the tools that you share
to our listeners.
If you liked our chat and topic today,
don't forget to share our episodeand consider joining MRA.
If you aren't a member already.
Like I said, we have all the resourcesyou need in the show notes
below, including resources on this topic.
Career paths and the course.
(31:45):
We'd love to hear from you,so feel free to chime in
and share any great success storiesthat you've had
of your own careerpath or career path planning otherwise.
Thank you so much againfor tuning in today and we will see
you all next week.
That wraps up our contentfor this episode.
Be sure to reference the show noteswhere you can sign in to connect.
(32:06):
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