It's the season 1 finale of "6 Degrees of Cats," the world's #1 (and only) cat-themed culture, history and science podcast! And just in time for Father's Day, the team explores the remarkable and often overlooked bond between men and cats.
Join us as we uncover fascinating insights, starting with Niagara University professor of philosophy Abigail Levin’s commentary on the gender stereotypes applied to cats, and the remarkable hunting skills they exhibit. We're also joined by Gabe García, a DEI analyst and LGBTQ+ youth advocate, who helps us delve into the origins of gender-based stereotypes and labels that Tony Porter of “A Call to Men” collectively refers to as "The Man Box" and led to the misconception that men can't have cats.
Additionally, friend of the podcast and returning TNR celebrity Sterling "TrapKing" Davis shares his experiences in educating communities about trap/neuter/return while promoting a broader understanding of masculinity and its relationship with cats.
Throughout, host Captain Kitty herself reminisces about her late father, who exemplified masculinity and fatherhood through his care for her and her cats during her childhood.
Tune in to this special episode as we celebrate Father's Day and unravel the multifaceted connections between masculinity, cats, and personal experiences that challenge societal norms.
Support the podcast, sign up for The Captain’s Log, the companion podcast newsletter and learn about way$ to help keep this ship afloat for our next season here: linktr.ee/6degreesofcats.
About the experts:
- Abigail Levin, Ph.D., J.D., is an Associate Professor of Philosophy at Niagara University in Buffalo, New York. Her primary research interests are in political philosophy, animal ethics, feminism and philosophy of race and gender. She is currently at work on a book-length project about celebrity animals and the ethical obligations arising from keeping animals in captivity.
- Gabe García is a DEI analyst and marketing consultant who leverages their background in philosophy, economics and communication studies to drive diversity, equity, inclusion, belonging in all their spaces. They serve on the board of OkaySo, a free confidential text-based app for LGBTQ+ youth and young people with questions about relationships, sex, identity, mental health and more. Gabe can be followed @gabefgarcia on most social media platforms.
- Sterling “TrapKing” Davis is an Atlanta, GA-based trap hip hop musician, community organizer and educator on feline trap-neuter-rescue. Davis and his team consult across the continental U.S. to provide sustainable, humane solutions for feral cat population control from a positive, collaborative and community-centered approach (trapkinghumane.org).
Producer, writer, editor, sound designer, host, basically everything*
- Captain Kitty (Amanda B.)
* with co-executive producers Binky & Snuggles
Animal voices include:
- Binky & Snuggles _^..^_
- Children’s voices: Arie B., Benjamin C., Ira B. and Kamron P (special thanks to the parents!)
Music:
- Leathered: "Look Alive" © 2022
- Leathered: “Indictment” © 2010
- Samples licensed via Loopcloud
- Additional sound effects from Pixabay.com
Provided with permission:
- Corey Rodrigues: “Cats Are Better Than Dogs” © 2018
Logo design:
- Edward Anthony © 2024 (Instagram: @itsmyunzii)
Research used:
- Banks, M. S., Sprague, W. W., Schmoll, J., Parnell, J. A., & Love, G. D. (2015). Why do animal eyes have pupils of different shapes? Science Advances, 1(7). https://doi.org/10.1126/sciadv.1500391. Retrieved from: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.1500391
- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. (2022, November 8). What noises cause hearing loss?. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. Retrieved from: https://www.cdc.gov/nceh/hearing_loss/what_noises_cause_hearing_loss.html
- Fair, J. (2022, May 11). Apex predators in the wild: Which mammals are the most dangerous?. Which mammals are the
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Oh, sorry, Binky.
(00:04):
Father isn't here right now.
Wait, where are you going?
Welcome to the season finale of 6 Degrees of Cats.
Paka.
Koyangi.
Borbe.
Nikol.
Gato.
Booboo.
This podcast, in which I, Captain Kitty or Amanda were technical about it, investigated
(00:27):
a question about cats that explores each degree of separation between human and feeling
kind with the help of a diversity of experts.
We'll touch on genetics, history, cognition, a bunch of philosophy, psychology and marketing,
basically the same thing if you ask me.
On top of this stuff, we already know, discuss and probably love about cats.
(00:54):
We have arrived, dear friends, to this season's final episode.
My co-executive producers, who have forced me to sign a contract to update the show notes,
naming them as such, and I, Captain Kitty, are all feeling very grateful and very exhausted,
given all the travel we've had from connection point to connection point across history, topics
(01:16):
and cultures.
You could say it's been a trip.
But hopefully it will continue.
Before we dive into the episode, we want to descend our deep gratitude to all of you listeners.
Here's a message from Binky.
And here's one from Snuggles.
(01:38):
You catch all that?
Season 2 will pick up in late fall, but please don't worry.
We will be releasing many episodes in which we'll revisit season 1 guest experts or update
you on happenings at 6 Degrees of Cats HQ.
And if you haven't kept up with "The Captain's Log", our sub-stack newsletter, we'll also
(02:00):
be keeping that fresh.
Yours truly has been doing this as a team of one.
Out!
Fine, a team of three.
So if you want to see 6 Degrees of Cats take off, please visit our show notes to see more
(02:23):
about how you can do that.
We'll be coming out with merch and are excited to keep the course on SS 6 degrees of cats.
Anyway, onto the episode.
The dog is the most fat flat.
(02:51):
You have to tail on one end.
Up in fun, you have teeth.
And four legs underneath.
Thanks guys.
That was a recitation of North American poet Ogden Nash's classic.
"Man's Best friend".
Here in the United States, at the time of this episode's release, we'll have just celebrated
(03:14):
the second or maybe the third most popular greeting card bananza that is...
Father's Day.
I don't know about you, but a lot of the greeting cards for Father's Day and for men in
general almost exclusively includes at least one of these things.
(03:36):
Bonus points for two or more.
Golf, hunting, the outdoors, large maintenance vehicles, or dogs.
But no cats.
Or babies, even though I kind of get it with the babies, because cats are cuter than babies.
That is a true fact.
(03:58):
Back to the cats.
Good man.
I think it's time to interrogate that premise.
Why are dogs man's best friend?
Why not cats?
I've thought a lot about this.
And I think a strong case can be made that cats and men have a lot more in common than you
think.
Were it not for...
(04:19):
Well, let's get into it.
Many people would think that I was raised by a bunch of cat people, but in fact, my mom was
cat agnostic.
Her childhood pet was a beloved weener dog called Heidi.
And my dad's side of the family was the prototypical American dog family.
(04:43):
We're talking generations of Black Labrador Retrievers who accompanied Captain Kitty's
paternal great-grandfathers on hunts, greeted them upon their return from various military
conflicts that the US had gotten itself into during their time.
The noble beasts that slept at their feet jumped all over them with joy and barked incessantly
(05:03):
at the sight, sound or smell of a foreign interloper at a volume exceeding 80 decibels.
According to the CDC, noise at 80 decibels and above might start to damage your hearing.
Where was I?
I yes.
My dad.
And conceivably, to me and most of you listeners, dad and cats were no bueno.
(05:29):
He seemed immune to their charms.
He genuinely disliked them.
But of course, he loved me.
He allowed not one but two cats, ribbons and tibans to invade his home, tear up his furniture,
(05:52):
walk on his counters, relieve themselves in a box that he somehow got stuck monitoring,
and all those pricey vet visits that yes, he had to pay for.
I won't say that dad ever came around to being a cat guy, nor would he have opted to adopt
a cat without, well, my influence.
(06:14):
But I think he did come to appreciate their quiet and affectionate presence, as well
as the relative lack of mischief they got into in comparison to their stepbrother, Lightning.
Our adorable but completely out of contro yellow lab, whose maintenance and cost far
exceeded both of the cats together, penny for penny.
(06:38):
RIP Lightning.
My dad passed in 2014.
I'd like to think, he is still feeding Ribbons, shooing away Tibbons - who somehow became quite
attached to him - and chasing after Lightning up there in the afterlife.
(07:01):
When I remember my dad, I always think of a more reserved quiet, covertly humorous guy. (I mentioned I'm adopted, right?)
He was tidy, considerate, calm, of course, when pushed.
You would know exactly what boundary you'd breached and learned how to avoid those moments.
(07:21):
Dad didn't need to do a lot of exciting external activities to relax.
He just liked being around his family, nature, good food.
He wasn't a homebody per se, but he definitely was more on the introverted side.
He really loved fishing and hunting.
Hmm, those personality traits sure do sound familiar.
(07:47):
Was my dad a cat?
I mean, in one way, he already was a cat, as a Leo.
Come to think of it, he sure had a lot in common with them.
Starting with hunting.
I think this is going to help us as we continue investigating this man's best friend thing.
(08:10):
As we heard in episode 1 from Dr. Melinda Zeder, cats descended from animals that are not
pack animals, but happen to be darn good at hunting.
Check this out.
There's classified as solitary ambush predators.
Ooh, let's hear that again.
Solitary ambush predators.
(08:30):
That is so metal.
If I had a band, solitary ambush predators.
That was our first guest expert.
I'm Dr. Abigail Levin and I'm an associate professor of philosophy at Niagara University
in sunny western New York, right across from the Canadian border.
(08:54):
I teach animal ethics on a regular basis.
Speaking of ethics, in this episode we're not going to dive into the very important
and thorny ethical issue about just how effective our little predators really are at hunting.
But I will leave you with this note.
Caring for community cats and trap-nitter return is like an underrated ethical imperative.
(09:20):
Because again, cats are solitary ambush predators.
Low-key ambush predators are animals that lie in weight, often camouflaged by their environment.
They surprise attack - a.k.a. ambush - their prey, in a quick burst of speed and agility, or
(09:41):
adorably, they pounce.
As with fellow hissing ambush predators, snakes, cat pupils are narrow and vertically elongated,
according to an article in Science Advances.
Vertically elongated pupils create a stigmatic depth of field such that images of vertical
(10:02):
contours nearer or farther than the distance to which the eye is focused are sharp.
Whereas images of the eye are sharp.
In other words, it helps them focus on what's in front of them to zero in on their moving
target or something like that.
She crouches, hidden by the savanna brush that blends into the colors of her fur.
(10:24):
Occasionally, she tracks her prey, waiting for the right moment.
Her target steps into the clearing.
And, suddenly...
Ouch!
Snuggles!
That was my ankle!
Anyone who's ever had a kitty in their domicile had to become an expert grave digger to provide
(10:49):
a proper Christian burial for the unfortunate critters that came into their claws.
My dad took the ecological impact of hunting pretty seriously, and so, of course, he was not
happy with my cat's efficacy at hunting.
You know, this is part of their nature.
In fact, their close cousin, the black-footed cat in Africa, is the number one most effective
(11:15):
predator in the whole animal kingdom.
This little guy has a 60% kill rate.
It's indisputable that cats are pretty much like the top hunter.
So hunters, I think you found a new mascot.
Alrighty, back to the man's best friend question.
(11:40):
Listen, forget that malarkey that the word "man" means "human."
They said what they said.
We're gonna continue our deep dive into every part of that statement right after the
break.
(12:08):
Before the break, we kinda went down memory lane with the prototypical dog guy, my dad,
who surely ascribed to the belief that dogs are man's best friend.
But I think he missed an opportunity to bond with two little hunting buddies purring right
beside him all along.
The question remains, "What traits are cats lacking that DQ'd them from the man's best friend
(12:35):
checklist?"
Actually, what even is on there?
Educator and activist Tony Porter, who founded the U.S.
anti-violence organization, A Call to Men, has a pretty good summary of the traits that
fall into what he refers to as "The Man Box."
"Tough, strong,
(13:00):
courageous, dominating, no pain, no emotions
With the exception of anger, and no fear"
Interesting.
I think we have to speak a bit more about masculinity, which means we're going to quickly
brief on gender.
(13:20):
Now this is a complex and nuanced topic.
So for this, I'm really grateful to consult with a person who works hard to help folks connect
across various identities, experiences and cultures.
My name is Gabe Garcia.
I use the them pronouns.
My currently work as a diversity equity and inclusion analyst.
We can find me on most all social media @GabeFGarcia.
(13:44):
Overall I try and really hold that through thread of diversity, equity and inclusion, not only
in my work, but also in my personal life.
I recently just joined the board of this fantastic organization called OKSO, which essentially
is a tech platform to help folks at any age connect with an expert and get their questions
answered about sex, sexuality, identity, relationships and all of that under the sun.
(14:10):
Gabe was kind enough to help break down the terminology we're using in this episode.
There are two terms to clarify here.
Sex and gender.
My understanding, and I would say that this is a pretty learned understanding, especially
as someone who identifies as transgender and gender non-conforming.
Sex is really referring to "reproductive organs" talking about in very plain simple terms
(14:35):
like does this person have a penis or does this person have a vagina?
You're born, you come out of the womb and the doctor is like, "It's a boy, it's a girl,"
or in our sex people exist as well.
So, you know, this child has ambiguous genitalia.
The based on current research, sex includes three categories, male, female or intersex,
(15:01):
and those three are chosen by the clinical team who make that determination based on
the presentation of the baby's genitalia.
How about gender?
Is that the same thing?
Gender is a lot more complex.
Gender has nothing to do with what's downstairs, so to say, "Gender is how you feel and how
(15:25):
you express yourself and move through the world, the way that you really reflect and feel
about your sex in your heart and inside of yourself."
This gender means you identify with the sex that you were assigned at birth, so your
gender identity and your sex are aligned.
This gender refers to anybody whose gender identity and sex are misaligned.
(15:49):
And so in my case, my sex is male, but I don't identify as a man.
I don't identify as male.
It's historically proven like, "Gender is a construct."
Now we're getting somewhere.
Gender is a construct.
You might be familiar with that phrase.
(16:10):
It simply means that, unlike sex, the category of gender isn't based on specific fixed criteria,
but rather has been constructed and changes with the times.
Have you noticed how people will tend to refer to dogs as he and cats as she?
We have a daughter, I think I said.
Yeah.
(16:30):
Why can't I find gender neutral or boys cat clothes?
And I'm like, "I can't all the cat clothes are pink.
It's super-gendering her."
Two for one here.
Cats and color.
How did they become so gendered?
Here's a quick aside about color.
Up around World War II.
(16:52):
Pink was seen as a boy's color, the junior version of red, which is, or was, the ultimate
masculine color of the day.
Blue was for girls.
These kinds of things change with the times.
And cats don't care since they can't really discern red or pink from blues and greens
anyway.
So it's arbitrary then, right?
(17:13):
After all, in addition to hunting, cats share a lot of those traits that Tony Porter named
in the man box.
Tough, strong, courageous, dominating, no pain, no emotions, with the exception.
Gabe concurs.
They have a lot of typically quote unquote masculine characteristics.
(17:34):
As much as they love me, they are hecka defiant.
Like they will not do something if they do not want to do it.
And I think that's definitely a trait that is really aligned with masculinity and this idea
of men before all, right?
Like I get what I want.
And if that doesn't work for you, then that's your problem.
(17:56):
Overall, well, this man's best friend thing really has nothing to do with the animal's biological
traits.
It's us.
All the values, traits and stereotypes we've imposed on cats, certainly without their
knowledge or consent.
So do cats even have a gender?
(18:20):
I don't think that cats have gender because lucky for them, you'll get me wrong cats are
so smart.
I don't think that their world is as complex as ours is.
My cats have no concept of the fact that they are quote unquote male cats.
Pot take, I think cats are non binary.
(18:42):
I concur.
Cats possess traits that we would classify as masculine or feminine depending on the behavior.
And it's not just the cats themselves that are highly gendered.
Even loving on cats is a gender thing.
Someone's like, "Man here's a picture of my cat."
"You're a freak!
Get away from me."
But people will show you their puppy all day, right?
(19:03):
But you can't pull out a cat at a bar; pull out a cat picture at a bar, it's like, "He's
a creep.
Get away from that weirdo with three cats on his phone!"
Let's do it.
That was comic Corey Rodrigues.
The clip is actually from a bit he did called cats are better than dogs.
For the record, all animals are intrinsically wonderful and much better than humans.
(19:30):
But yes, of course, my preferences, cats.
Anyway, back to Corey's observation.
I know it was such a big deal with men and masculinity and cats until when I was posting
stuff a lot of guys that I knew would be like, "Man, why don't you get a dog?
Why don't you get a dog?"
I'm like, "Because I like cats.
I don't see why that matters."
And then even to the point where some young guys have to explain it to them, you know,
(19:53):
as far as the masculinity thing align as the king of the jungle.
That's a cat.
That's a big old cat.
Why does that even look like that?
It's a gender thing.
You may recognize the voice of our wonderful returning guest expert.
I am Sterling "TrapKing" Davis out of Atlanta, Georgia.
Let's refresh on what he does and why he's doing it.
(20:13):
My nonprofit is TrapKing Humane Cat Solutions.
The 501(c)3 that I started about two years ago was actually on tour, doing music, not even
thinking about animal rescue, not even knowing about animal rescue.
I love cats.
I knew that.
So in between tour.
I was trying to find something to do.
I saw a Craigslist.
You can come scoop some cat litter, but when I came in and applied for the job, they would
(20:37):
just blow on the way to a black man was like in cats like that.
And they asked me to stay there.
It was like, "We want to hire you."
You know, just respect.
We just never seen a black man like, you know, somebody that looked like you, and
who cats like this.
And I think it would be beneficial if you stayed."
And as I got into it, I was able to see like, "Wow, it's not just black men."
(20:58):
At all, it was a masculinity thing almost, but with man and cats.
This.
This is the exact kind of rigid, gendered malarkey that keeps cats off of boys, baby
clothes, and father's day cards.
It plays out in other even more impactful contexts.
(21:19):
It's similar when you think about the way that society reacts to like a dad taking their
child out versus the way that they react to like a mother taking their child out.
When a dad is seeing pushing the stroller and holding up the baby, it's like, "Oh my God,
what a good dad."
Whereas when a mom is doing it, it's like, "Okay, yeah, that's her job."
(21:41):
Right?
And so I think especially when it comes to cat ownership when men or, you know, male identifying
people have cats, I think the societal view of it is, you know, the way that they're
is that that is almost feminizing.
It's so interesting when you think about the ways that it also parallels with just like
(22:03):
being a parent when in reality it should really be equitable.
Yeah.
And that's also seriously insulting to the fathers who are equally active in their parenting
roles.
I'm talking both of human and feline wards.
You know who took the call in our home when you cut your foot and had to go to the ER or
(22:27):
had to step out from a New Year's Eve celebration to take you to the ER because you had a sinus
infection and strep throat?
The only one in the house with the stomach to look at your injury, tell you to put a band-aid
on it and two hours later, take you to the ER.
Good old dad.
(22:47):
It was he who begrudgingly let Tibbons inside that stormy night.
Famous last words?
No more cats.
It was also my dad who helped re-home Tibbons with my aunt.
And lastly, it was my dad who received a panicked call from my aunt left work and brought Tibbons
(23:08):
right back to us.
And it was he, one Christmas Eve, who accompanied yours truly to the animal ER to
say farewell to Ribbons in his 18th final year.
Yeah, that man was a father to both his human and his fur bearing children.
(23:32):
There are so many fathers who have done that kind of stuff.
So let's stop denying this beautiful side of fatherhood and masculinity.
Let's break out of those boxes and think about those labels.
Those are good for finding community with others who also identify in similar ways.
(23:53):
Not good for fully defining your gender identity and your facts.
Like I said, you were to somebody's stereotype as far as the masculinity with men can't have
cats and everything.
Preach.
These are strange times, folks.
We have all this technology.
(24:14):
We have all these resources.
We all think we're so enlightened and yet here we are living in a world where having a cat
is still gendered.
Why are we so rigid and committed to this?
I say.
May those of all identity feel free to have the pets, feel the feelings and move in this
(24:37):
world in ways that honor one's truest, kindest, best selves.
This absolutely goes for all dads everywhere.
Well, we sure have opened and unpacked quite a few boxes.
Man box, cat box.
(Actually not that box.)
(24:59):
Here's where we're at.
Kitties are non-binary and masculinity has feline traits.
Happy Father's Day.
I hope every father in the world can experience the love of cats.
(25:22):
We'll know we're making some progress when there are greeting cards with dudes in camouflage
pushing a stroller with a cat in it.
Come on, card companies.
If you don't, I will.
As I said, I am making merch.
Thanks for sticking with me.
I'd say we've gone at least 6 degrees within anything related to cats and we're gonna keep
(25:47):
on going.
In the next season, oh yes, there'll be a next season, don't you worry, I have enough
content for 50 million seasons, y'all.
We'll be exploring kitties' influence on music, further diving into various surprising
transcultural patterns and dive deeper into some of the mythologies we've explored in season
one.
(26:08):
So thank you everybody.
It's been a blast to this season and I'll see you on the other side of the season break
I need.
I'm not going anywhere, although I'm seriously working on that cat tour of the world.
Join me.
I'd like to thank my wonderful experts all season and in this episode.
(26:30):
Dr. Abigail Levin.
Gabe Garcia.
And Sterling "TrapKing" Davis.
While the opinions are my own, the research and work is theirs.
If you'd like to learn more about them, please check out our show notes which also includes
the references and research that went into this episode.
If you loved this podcast, please help spread the word, share it on your social media.
(26:52):
We're now on YouTube as well.
And right to your favorite influencer, congressperson, newsletter, local journalist,
whomever, to recommend to them this humble podcast.
If you'd like to support us in other ways, please give us a five star rating and a review
with a shout out to your kiddies.
The mini-sodes I mentioned at the top of this episode will begin in a couple weeks, but
(27:15):
in the meantime, stay in the loop by signing up for the captain's log.
On behalf of my co-executive producers, Binky and Snuggles, we appreciate you.
And remember, everything is connected.
One, two, one, two, three, four.
Six degrees of cats is produced, written, edited and hosted by yours truly, Captain Kitty,
(27:37):
A.K.A. Amanda B. Please subscribe to our mailing list by visiting tinyURL.com/sixdegreesofcats
or find us on all those social media platforms.
And for my paid subscribers, you'll have access to the extra audio with more deep dives
by our experts.
This and all episodes are dedicated to the misunderstood, the marginalized, the resilience
(28:02):
and the weird.
And of course, all the cats we've loved and lost.
Getting settled here?
Watch out for it, James.
Sorry, my cat.
I love that your cat's name is James.
(28:24):
I probably should have named him Elton John, though, because he's more so of an older guy
that wants to stay to himself.
Just be around me, maybe.
I should have gave him a different name.
So weird.
[LAUGHTER]
(laughter)
[END PLAYBACK]
Oh, sorry, Binky.
(00:04):
Father isn't here right now.
Wait, where are you going?
Welcome to the season finale of 6 Degrees of Cats.
Paka.
Koyangi.
Borbe.
Nikol.
Gato.
Booboo.
This podcast, in which I, Captain Kitty or Amanda were technical about it, investigated
(00:27):
a question about cats that explores each degree of separation between human and feeling
kind with the help of a diversity of experts.
We'll touch on genetics, history, cognition, a bunch of philosophy, psychology and marketing,
basically the same thing if you ask me.
On top of this stuff, we already know, discuss and probably love about cats.
(00:54):
We have arrived, dear friends, to this season's final episode.
My co-executive producers, who have forced me to sign a contract to update the show notes,
naming them as such, and I, Captain Kitty, are all feeling very grateful and very exhausted,
given all the travel we've had from connection point to connection point across history, topics
(01:16):
and cultures.
You could say it's been a trip.
But hopefully it will continue.
Before we dive into the episode, we want to descend our deep gratitude to all of you listeners.
Here's a message from Binky.
And here's one from Snuggles.
(01:38):
You catch all that?
Season 2 will pick up in late fall, but please don't worry.
We will be releasing many episodes in which we'll revisit season 1 guest experts or update
you on happenings at 6 Degrees of Cats HQ.
And if you haven't kept up with "The Captain's Log", our sub-stack newsletter, we'll also
(02:00):
be keeping that fresh.
Yours truly has been doing this as a team of one.
Out!
Fine, a team of three.
So if you want to see 6 Degrees of Cats take off, please visit our show notes to see more
(02:23):
about how you can do that.
We'll be coming out with merch and are excited to keep the course on SS 6 degrees of cats.
Anyway, onto the episode.
The dog is the most fat flat.
(02:51):
You have to tail on one end.
Up in fun, you have teeth.
And four legs underneath.
Thanks guys.
That was a recitation of North American poet Ogden Nash's classic.
"Man's Best friend".
Here in the United States, at the time of this episode's release, we'll have just celebrated
(03:14):
the second or maybe the third most popular greeting card bananza that is...
Father's Day.
I don't know about you, but a lot of the greeting cards for Father's Day and for men in
general almost exclusively includes at least one of these things.
(03:36):
Bonus points for two or more.
Golf, hunting, the outdoors, large maintenance vehicles, or dogs.
But no cats.
Or babies, even though I kind of get it with the babies, because cats are cuter than babies.
That is a true fact.
(03:58):
Back to the cats.
Good man.
I think it's time to interrogate that premise.
Why are dogs man's best friend?
Why not cats?
I've thought a lot about this.
And I think a strong case can be made that cats and men have a lot more in common than you
think.
Were it not for...
(04:19):
Well, let's get into it.
Many people would think that I was raised by a bunch of cat people, but in fact, my mom was
cat agnostic.
Her childhood pet was a beloved weener dog called Heidi.
And my dad's side of the family was the prototypical American dog family.
(04:43):
We're talking generations of Black Labrador Retrievers who accompanied Captain Kitty's
paternal great-grandfathers on hunts, greeted them upon their return from various military
conflicts that the US had gotten itself into during their time.
The noble beasts that slept at their feet jumped all over them with joy and barked incessantly
(05:03):
at the sight, sound or smell of a foreign interloper at a volume exceeding 80 decibels.
According to the CDC, noise at 80 decibels and above might start to damage your hearing.
Where was I?
I yes.
My dad.
And conceivably, to me and most of you listeners, dad and cats were no bueno.
(05:29):
He seemed immune to their charms.
He genuinely disliked them.
But of course, he loved me.
He allowed not one but two cats, ribbons and tibans to invade his home, tear up his furniture,
(05:52):
walk on his counters, relieve themselves in a box that he somehow got stuck monitoring,
and all those pricey vet visits that yes, he had to pay for.
I won't say that dad ever came around to being a cat guy, nor would he have opted to adopt
a cat without, well, my influence.
(06:14):
But I think he did come to appreciate their quiet and affectionate presence, as well
as the relative lack of mischief they got into in comparison to their stepbrother, Lightning.
Our adorable but completely out of contro yellow lab, whose maintenance and cost far
exceeded both of the cats together, penny for penny.
(06:38):
RIP Lightning.
My dad passed in 2014.
I'd like to think, he is still feeding Ribbons, shooing away Tibbons - who somehow became quite
attached to him - and chasing after Lightning up there in the afterlife.
(07:01):
When I remember my dad, I always think of a more reserved quiet, covertly humorous guy. (I mentioned I'm adopted, right?)
He was tidy, considerate, calm, of course, when pushed.
You would know exactly what boundary you'd breached and learned how to avoid those moments.
(07:21):
Dad didn't need to do a lot of exciting external activities to relax.
He just liked being around his family, nature, good food.
He wasn't a homebody per se, but he definitely was more on the introverted side.
He really loved fishing and hunting.
Hmm, those personality traits sure do sound familiar.
(07:47):
Was my dad a cat?
I mean, in one way, he already was a cat, as a Leo.
Come to think of it, he sure had a lot in common with them.
Starting with hunting.
I think this is going to help us as we continue investigating this man's best friend thing.
(08:10):
As we heard in episode 1 from Dr. Melinda Zeder, cats descended from animals that are not
pack animals, but happen to be darn good at hunting.
Check this out.
There's classified as solitary ambush predators.
Ooh, let's hear that again.
Solitary ambush predators.
(08:30):
That is so metal.
If I had a band, solitary ambush predators.
That was our first guest expert.
I'm Dr. Abigail Levin and I'm an associate professor of philosophy at Niagara University
in sunny western New York, right across from the Canadian border.
(08:54):
I teach animal ethics on a regular basis.
Speaking of ethics, in this episode we're not going to dive into the very important
and thorny ethical issue about just how effective our little predators really are at hunting.
But I will leave you with this note.
Caring for community cats and trap-nitter return is like an underrated ethical imperative.
(09:20):
Because again, cats are solitary ambush predators.
Low-key ambush predators are animals that lie in weight, often camouflaged by their environment.
They surprise attack - a.k.a. ambush - their prey, in a quick burst of speed and agility, or
(09:41):
adorably, they pounce.
As with fellow hissing ambush predators, snakes, cat pupils are narrow and vertically elongated,
according to an article in Science Advances.
Vertically elongated pupils create a stigmatic depth of field such that images of vertical
(10:02):
contours nearer or farther than the distance to which the eye is focused are sharp.
Whereas images of the eye are sharp.
In other words, it helps them focus on what's in front of them to zero in on their moving
target or something like that.
She crouches, hidden by the savanna brush that blends into the colors of her fur.
(10:24):
Occasionally, she tracks her prey, waiting for the right moment.
Her target steps into the clearing.
And, suddenly...
Ouch!
Snuggles!
That was my ankle!
Anyone who's ever had a kitty in their domicile had to become an expert grave digger to provide
(10:49):
a proper Christian burial for the unfortunate critters that came into their claws.
My dad took the ecological impact of hunting pretty seriously, and so, of course, he was not
happy with my cat's efficacy at hunting.
You know, this is part of their nature.
In fact, their close cousin, the black-footed cat in Africa, is the number one most effective
(11:15):
predator in the whole animal kingdom.
This little guy has a 60% kill rate.
It's indisputable that cats are pretty much like the top hunter.
So hunters, I think you found a new mascot.
Alrighty, back to the man's best friend question.
(11:40):
Listen, forget that malarkey that the word "man" means "human."
They said what they said.
We're gonna continue our deep dive into every part of that statement right after the
break.
(12:08):
Before the break, we kinda went down memory lane with the prototypical dog guy, my dad,
who surely ascribed to the belief that dogs are man's best friend.
But I think he missed an opportunity to bond with two little hunting buddies purring right
beside him all along.
The question remains, "What traits are cats lacking that DQ'd them from the man's best friend
(12:35):
checklist?"
Actually, what even is on there?
Educator and activist Tony Porter, who founded the U.S.
anti-violence organization, A Call to Men, has a pretty good summary of the traits that
fall into what he refers to as "The Man Box."
"Tough, strong,
(13:00):
courageous, dominating, no pain, no emotions
With the exception of anger, and no fear"
Interesting.
I think we have to speak a bit more about masculinity, which means we're going to quickly
brief on gender.
(13:20):
Now this is a complex and nuanced topic.
So for this, I'm really grateful to consult with a person who works hard to help folks connect
across various identities, experiences and cultures.
My name is Gabe Garcia.
I use the them pronouns.
My currently work as a diversity equity and inclusion analyst.
We can find me on most all social media @GabeFGarcia.
(13:44):
Overall I try and really hold that through thread of diversity, equity and inclusion, not only
in my work, but also in my personal life.
I recently just joined the board of this fantastic organization called OKSO, which essentially
is a tech platform to help folks at any age connect with an expert and get their questions
answered about sex, sexuality, identity, relationships and all of that under the sun.
(14:10):
Gabe was kind enough to help break down the terminology we're using in this episode.
There are two terms to clarify here.
Sex and gender.
My understanding, and I would say that this is a pretty learned understanding, especially
as someone who identifies as transgender and gender non-conforming.
Sex is really referring to "reproductive organs" talking about in very plain simple terms
(14:35):
like does this person have a penis or does this person have a vagina?
You're born, you come out of the womb and the doctor is like, "It's a boy, it's a girl,"
or in our sex people exist as well.
So, you know, this child has ambiguous genitalia.
The based on current research, sex includes three categories, male, female or intersex,
(15:01):
and those three are chosen by the clinical team who make that determination based on
the presentation of the baby's genitalia.
How about gender?
Is that the same thing?
Gender is a lot more complex.
Gender has nothing to do with what's downstairs, so to say, "Gender is how you feel and how
(15:25):
you express yourself and move through the world, the way that you really reflect and feel
about your sex in your heart and inside of yourself."
This gender means you identify with the sex that you were assigned at birth, so your
gender identity and your sex are aligned.
This gender refers to anybody whose gender identity and sex are misaligned.
(15:49):
And so in my case, my sex is male, but I don't identify as a man.
I don't identify as male.
It's historically proven like, "Gender is a construct."
Now we're getting somewhere.
Gender is a construct.
You might be familiar with that phrase.
(16:10):
It simply means that, unlike sex, the category of gender isn't based on specific fixed criteria,
but rather has been constructed and changes with the times.
Have you noticed how people will tend to refer to dogs as he and cats as she?
We have a daughter, I think I said.
Yeah.
(16:30):
Why can't I find gender neutral or boys cat clothes?
And I'm like, "I can't all the cat clothes are pink.
It's super-gendering her."
Two for one here.
Cats and color.
How did they become so gendered?
Here's a quick aside about color.
Up around World War II.
(16:52):
Pink was seen as a boy's color, the junior version of red, which is, or was, the ultimate
masculine color of the day.
Blue was for girls.
These kinds of things change with the times.
And cats don't care since they can't really discern red or pink from blues and greens
anyway.
So it's arbitrary then, right?
(17:13):
After all, in addition to hunting, cats share a lot of those traits that Tony Porter named
in the man box.
Tough, strong, courageous, dominating, no pain, no emotions, with the exception.
Gabe concurs.
They have a lot of typically quote unquote masculine characteristics.
(17:34):
As much as they love me, they are hecka defiant.
Like they will not do something if they do not want to do it.
And I think that's definitely a trait that is really aligned with masculinity and this idea
of men before all, right?
Like I get what I want.
And if that doesn't work for you, then that's your problem.
(17:56):
Overall, well, this man's best friend thing really has nothing to do with the animal's biological
traits.
It's us.
All the values, traits and stereotypes we've imposed on cats, certainly without their
knowledge or consent.
So do cats even have a gender?
(18:20):
I don't think that cats have gender because lucky for them, you'll get me wrong cats are
so smart.
I don't think that their world is as complex as ours is.
My cats have no concept of the fact that they are quote unquote male cats.
Pot take, I think cats are non binary.
(18:42):
I concur.
Cats possess traits that we would classify as masculine or feminine depending on the behavior.
And it's not just the cats themselves that are highly gendered.
Even loving on cats is a gender thing.
Someone's like, "Man here's a picture of my cat."
"You're a freak!
Get away from me."
But people will show you their puppy all day, right?
(19:03):
But you can't pull out a cat at a bar; pull out a cat picture at a bar, it's like, "He's
a creep.
Get away from that weirdo with three cats on his phone!"
Let's do it.
That was comic Corey Rodrigues.
The clip is actually from a bit he did called cats are better than dogs.
For the record, all animals are intrinsically wonderful and much better than humans.
(19:30):
But yes, of course, my preferences, cats.
Anyway, back to Corey's observation.
I know it was such a big deal with men and masculinity and cats until when I was posting
stuff a lot of guys that I knew would be like, "Man, why don't you get a dog?
Why don't you get a dog?"
I'm like, "Because I like cats.
I don't see why that matters."
And then even to the point where some young guys have to explain it to them, you know,
(19:53):
as far as the masculinity thing align as the king of the jungle.
That's a cat.
That's a big old cat.
Why does that even look like that?
It's a gender thing.
You may recognize the voice of our wonderful returning guest expert.
I am Sterling "TrapKing" Davis out of Atlanta, Georgia.
Let's refresh on what he does and why he's doing it.
(20:13):
My nonprofit is TrapKing Humane Cat Solutions.
The 501(c)3 that I started about two years ago was actually on tour, doing music, not even
thinking about animal rescue, not even knowing about animal rescue.
I love cats.
I knew that.
So in between tour.
I was trying to find something to do.
I saw a Craigslist.
You can come scoop some cat litter, but when I came in and applied for the job, they would
(20:37):
just blow on the way to a black man was like in cats like that.
And they asked me to stay there.
It was like, "We want to hire you."
You know, just respect.
We just never seen a black man like, you know, somebody that looked like you, and
who cats like this.
And I think it would be beneficial if you stayed."
And as I got into it, I was able to see like, "Wow, it's not just black men."
(20:58):
At all, it was a masculinity thing almost, but with man and cats.
This.
This is the exact kind of rigid, gendered malarkey that keeps cats off of boys, baby
clothes, and father's day cards.
It plays out in other even more impactful contexts.
(21:19):
It's similar when you think about the way that society reacts to like a dad taking their
child out versus the way that they react to like a mother taking their child out.
When a dad is seeing pushing the stroller and holding up the baby, it's like, "Oh my God,
what a good dad."
Whereas when a mom is doing it, it's like, "Okay, yeah, that's her job."
(21:41):
Right?
And so I think especially when it comes to cat ownership when men or, you know, male identifying
people have cats, I think the societal view of it is, you know, the way that they're
is that that is almost feminizing.
It's so interesting when you think about the ways that it also parallels with just like
(22:03):
being a parent when in reality it should really be equitable.
Yeah.
And that's also seriously insulting to the fathers who are equally active in their parenting
roles.
I'm talking both of human and feline wards.
You know who took the call in our home when you cut your foot and had to go to the ER or
(22:27):
had to step out from a New Year's Eve celebration to take you to the ER because you had a sinus
infection and strep throat?
The only one in the house with the stomach to look at your injury, tell you to put a band-aid
on it and two hours later, take you to the ER.
Good old dad.
(22:47):
It was he who begrudgingly let Tibbons inside that stormy night.
Famous last words?
No more cats.
It was also my dad who helped re-home Tibbons with my aunt.
And lastly, it was my dad who received a panicked call from my aunt left work and brought Tibbons
(23:08):
right back to us.
And it was he, one Christmas Eve, who accompanied yours truly to the animal ER to
say farewell to Ribbons in his 18th final year.
Yeah, that man was a father to both his human and his fur bearing children.
(23:32):
There are so many fathers who have done that kind of stuff.
So let's stop denying this beautiful side of fatherhood and masculinity.
Let's break out of those boxes and think about those labels.
Those are good for finding community with others who also identify in similar ways.
(23:53):
Not good for fully defining your gender identity and your facts.
Like I said, you were to somebody's stereotype as far as the masculinity with men can't have
cats and everything.
Preach.
These are strange times, folks.
We have all this technology.
(24:14):
We have all these resources.
We all think we're so enlightened and yet here we are living in a world where having a cat
is still gendered.
Why are we so rigid and committed to this?
I say.
May those of all identity feel free to have the pets, feel the feelings and move in this
(24:37):
world in ways that honor one's truest, kindest, best selves.
This absolutely goes for all dads everywhere.
Well, we sure have opened and unpacked quite a few boxes.
Man box, cat box.
(Actually not that box.)
(24:59):
Here's where we're at.
Kitties are non-binary and masculinity has feline traits.
Happy Father's Day.
I hope every father in the world can experience the love of cats.
(25:22):
We'll know we're making some progress when there are greeting cards with dudes in camouflage
pushing a stroller with a cat in it.
Come on, card companies.
If you don't, I will.
As I said, I am making merch.
Thanks for sticking with me.
I'd say we've gone at least 6 degrees within anything related to cats and we're gonna keep
(25:47):
on going.
In the next season, oh yes, there'll be a next season, don't you worry, I have enough
content for 50 million seasons, y'all.
We'll be exploring kitties' influence on music, further diving into various surprising
transcultural patterns and dive deeper into some of the mythologies we've explored in season
one.
(26:08):
So thank you everybody.
It's been a blast to this season and I'll see you on the other side of the season break
I need.
I'm not going anywhere, although I'm seriously working on that cat tour of the world.
Join me.
I'd like to thank my wonderful experts all season and in this episode.
(26:30):
Dr. Abigail Levin.
Gabe Garcia.
And Sterling "TrapKing" Davis.
While the opinions are my own, the research and work is theirs.
If you'd like to learn more about them, please check out our show notes which also includes
the references and research that went into this episode.
If you loved this podcast, please help spread the word, share it on your social media.
(26:52):
We're now on YouTube as well.
And right to your favorite influencer, congressperson, newsletter, local journalist,
whomever, to recommend to them this humble podcast.
If you'd like to support us in other ways, please give us a five star rating and a review
with a shout out to your kiddies.
The mini-sodes I mentioned at the top of this episode will begin in a couple weeks, but
(27:15):
in the meantime, stay in the loop by signing up for the captain's log.
On behalf of my co-executive producers, Binky and Snuggles, we appreciate you.
And remember, everything is connected.
One, two, one, two, three, four.
Six degrees of cats is produced, written, edited and hosted by yours truly, Captain Kitty,
(27:37):
A.K.A. Amanda B. Please subscribe to our mailing list by visiting tinyURL.com/sixdegreesofcats
or find us on all those social media platforms.
And for my paid subscribers, you'll have access to the extra audio with more deep dives
by our experts.
This and all episodes are dedicated to the misunderstood, the marginalized, the resilience
(28:02):
and the weird.
And of course, all the cats we've loved and lost.
Getting settled here?
Watch out for it, James.
Sorry, my cat.
I love that your cat's name is James.
(28:24):
I probably should have named him Elton John, though, because he's more so of an older guy
that wants to stay to himself.
Just be around me, maybe.
I should have gave him a different name.
So weird.
[LAUGHTER]
(laughter)
[END PLAYBACK]
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