May 14, 2024 • 61 mins
In this episode, Kate and Charles discuss Buffy the Vampire Slayer's music, from the onscreen bands at the Bronze to the haunting melodies of the series' musical score. Don't worry we talk about "Once More With Feeling" too.
Spoiler alert: The entire Buffy the Vampire Slayer series will be discussed.
This episode was produced by Kate Balzer and Charles Swint. Edited by Jeremy Williams.
Theme song
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:07):
Hey,
everyone.
Welcome to a girl,
a guy and a Buffy podcast.
I'm one of your co-host,
Kate Balder and I'm Charles Swint.
Hey,
welcome back.
How are you doing Charles?
I'm doing all right.
I'm doing good.
How are you?
I'm good.
I'm good.
Ready to talk all things,
music and Buffy the Vampire Slayer,
la la la la la.
(00:31):
It would have been better if you drilled in the theme song to Buffy.
00 For those of you who are just joining us uh for the first time.
Uh We are two friends who were watching uh who have been watching Buffy the Buck Buff.
(00:53):
Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Wow,
that was weird.
We were two friends who have been watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer uh for,
you know,
since the beginning and this is not a re-watch podcast.
This is a spoilery podcast and we were talking about big bad themes.
Um And this season,
(01:13):
uh our theme is pop culture.
So the season we've been talking about all things,
pop culture and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
And this episode is all about music.
Yes.
As you can tell we're gonna do musical keys during the show.
(01:33):
We did not discuss this but it's coming out.
Um,
oh,
wait,
I don't know if we can sing all of these.
There might be,
there might be some copyright issues.
I didn't,
I sang less than 30 seconds of it.
I think we'll be ok.
I think we'll be fine.
(01:55):
Um,
uh,
ok.
What's your experience with me?
Like,
what are your personal experience?
Well,
I,
um,
mainly it's been around piano.
My mom put me into piano lessons around like the age of like,
five or six.
and I took piano lessons for about probably 10 years.
(02:19):
I was about 15 or 16 when I stopped and it really wasn't because I didn't like it,
it was because I started getting into a whole lot of other activities in high school.
And then it was around the time that we had moved,
um,
down to Georgia and the first a piano teacher I got,
(02:39):
he was a,
um,
like a master student,
I think at Georgia State University,
um,
in music.
And I don't know,
he just,
he was fine but,
like,
I didn't really,
I wasn't really learning from him.
In fact,
I remember having,
like,
conversations with him about books.
I mean,
he was great.
Like,
we had a really good conversation.
He was like the first adult that I remember meeting and he was like,
(03:01):
in his twenties.
So,
like,
it's not like he was all that much older than me.
Uh,
who was,
like,
really into,
um,
he read a lot of more nonfiction books and I was like,
whoa,
like,
I'd only,
you know,
my whole thing was,
like,
fiction.
So I feel like he opened my eyes that way.
But he didn't,
like I did,
he didn't get,
it was kind of like,
(03:23):
you know,
he'd send me home with a piece,
I'd do it.
I'd come and,
like,
it just wasn't,
I sh,
I don't know why I didn't go look for another piano teacher,
but for whatever reason I didn't,
like I said,
I think it was because I was getting involved in so many other activities.
Um,
so I've tried to,
like,
kind of keep it up over the years.
Um,
but not fixed up quite well.
(03:43):
Not really.
Um,
I,
there was a period of time where I was,
like,
getting back into the swing of it,
but now it's been so long that it's like,
I feel like I type,
like,
I play the piano,
like somebody who pecks at typing plays,
like I'm so slow because I've forgotten so much.
I'm like,
I need to do some adult lessons.
I would love to start playing again.
(04:04):
Um,
I actually do miss it.
I really loved it.
And most of my experience,
like,
most of my piano teachers were kind of typical of,
you know,
a lot of piano teachers is most of the focus was on classical music,
but it did help me develop an appreciation of classical music.
Um,
I,
I remember,
I think I asked to do some more popular stuff and it kind of makes me laugh.
(04:27):
Now,
the pieces that one of my teachers,
um,
who I love,
she was one of my favorite teachers pulled out for me to do.
We did,
um Killing Me Softly with his song,
like the original,
this was before the Fiji version,
but it made me laugh because when the Fiji,
yeah,
Roberta Flack,
when the Fiji version came out,
I like,
totally knew it.
(04:48):
You were like,
I know this one song and then uh Piano Man by Billy Joel.
So like,
it was,
they were good songs.
They were probably a little bit more like main uh like uh classic pop or yeah,
classic pop but nothing like a Quran.
Like I wasn't playing Madonna or you know,
which I think is what I kind of wanted.
(05:09):
But um but yeah,
that's mostly my experience with music.
Well,
and then just using music for dance.
I was always,
I'm also a dancer and I danced through college.
So,
you know,
using music for dance and that was probably like even more.
So my initial connection to music and I still always prefer like more melodic music where there's the opportunity to dance because my first exposure was like pop music for,
(05:37):
you know,
baby ballet,
baby jazz,
baby tap.
Oh I love it.
Yeah.
So what's your,
tell us about your experience.
Uh Mine is so mostly,
like,
mostly mine is in chorus.
I did chorus like all through like elementary school and middle school and high school.
(05:57):
Um,
and even into college.
So I did,
you know,
I was in all kinds of like chorus groups and,
um,
you know,
you know,
I did magical in high school and Corral and all of that nerdy,
you know,
chorus stuff.
So I did a lot of like classical music,
a lot of classical songs and a lot of classical pieces and,
(06:19):
you know,
and Latin and,
you know,
uh the requiems and all of those um all of those things.
Um and I did in high school,
I did some vocal jazz.
I was in a vocal jazz group in high school.
Did you know that?
You know,
OK,
so this is at chat,
this was at high school.
(06:39):
Yeah,
we made,
we made a,
we made a vocal jazz album.
We got,
oh my gosh,
people,
like we went to school together,
we saw each other every day.
This was senior year,
this was senior year.
OK.
(06:59):
If I knew this,
I have 100% forgotten,
which is actually completely is possible,
which is totally possible.
Um Yeah,
we went to uh we got a grant um through like the Grammys in the schools program to make a vocal jazz album.
And so we rehearsed all year and then I think it was like in the spring,
(07:23):
we went to,
uh,
Tree Sound Studios,
um,
where,
like,
you know,
outcast and like all these,
like,
big huge name,
people were like,
recording their albums.
Um,
and we went into the studio for the day and we recorded this,
we recorded like,
I don't know,
like eight or 10 songs.
That's so cool.
(07:44):
Do you still have it?
Uh,
I don't,
I,
well,
maybe I do somewhere.
I don't know,
but I know that it's online somewhere.
I'll have to find it because somebody,
um somebody on uh somebody in the group found it during COVID and like shared it with all of us um on there.
(08:07):
Yeah,
it was crazy.
Um So that was,
we did a lot of,
of that stuff.
So,
um and then of course with dance and things like that.
But um I tried to do piano for a little bit.
My dad got me into like,
gave me lessons,
but I really didn't like the lessons,
but I had keyboards all the time.
Like we had keyboards and guitars,
(08:29):
none of which I could play.
Um And so I would like,
I would figure things out basically by like by sound.
And so I would just try to figure out how to play things,
um,
you know,
by ear,
which,
you know,
that didn't really help.
But like I used to,
I figured out like a Janet Jackson song to play.
(08:51):
Um and then like this,
the Peanuts theme,
I figured that out by by ear too.
So that,
I mean,
but if I had to do it now,
I don't know if I could or I could get like a couple of notes,
but then I blow the rest.
Yeah.
You,
you saying that reminded me?
I forgot,
I actually played clarinet for a short period too.
(09:14):
I really loved it.
Um,
but it was,
again,
a move happened.
So I learned it at one school,
moved,
went to be like in the band in elementary school.
And I did not like the band instructor.
He was rather sexist.
I mean,
he does had a preferential treatment towards boys and I immediately like,
(09:35):
saw that and I was like,
I'm miserable.
I'm very unhappy.
I don't want to do this.
Um And,
you know,
like other than doing things through school at,
especially at the time if you're not like thinking career wise,
um,
where,
where else you can like,
use the clarinet,
you know.
So I guess that's probably like,
I don't,
(09:56):
you know,
I don't know why I didn't do private lessons,
but for whatever reason I didn't.
But yeah,
so that,
you know,
shout out to like awesome teachers.
Teachers make such a difference and whether you continue or pursue whatever it is that you're learning a bad teacher can definitely turn you off.
Thank you.
Music teachers are under appreciated music teachers out there.
(10:18):
Absolutely,
very much appreciate it.
Yeah.
Yes.
So the music,
so we see how music has influenced us.
Um And obviously music influenced Buffy and the show and,
and everything.
Um Yeah,
(10:39):
I mean,
music is just,
it's,
if it's oftentimes if it's done really well in television or film,
you don't notice it,
but it is so critical and if they took it away,
you would realize how critical of a role it plays,
(11:01):
you know,
in,
in helping to tell the story.
And so I think like for the purposes of our discussion,
if we're going to break this down into a couple of different,
a couple of different pieces,
uh you know,
the overall,
the overall score,
we're talking about like the score of,
of the,
of the show,
the orchestration and all of that stuff.
(11:23):
Um because Buffy was a show that unlike other shows,
you know,
had all these bands playing all the time too,
which was also sort of a part of the soundtrack to everything.
Uh and then it also had a musical episode.
So we're going to kind of break it down in,
in those ways and looking at like the score of Buffy,
the Bands of Buffy and the musical episode of,
(11:44):
of Buffy.
So orchestration.
Yeah.
Well,
I was just gonna say 11 thing to add about the purpose of music.
Um And I got this from a website called CN I Studios and I think it's just a great couple of points to remind us about how important music is.
(12:07):
So it helps create atmosphere,
it sets mood and tone for a scene,
adds depth and texture to advance the scene or story.
It's a way to communicate to the audience without words and it definitely provoke,
provokes emotional reactions and,
you know,
that certainly applies all of that to Buffy score.
(12:28):
Right.
Yes.
Um You know,
there is,
there's so much to ta there's so much to talk about it and like the,
the way that they,
the way that they sort of create these suits and these,
um you know,
these,
these uh melodic uh themes for,
(12:51):
for the characters and for the shows is really,
um it's really impressive and I,
and I don't know,
I don't know if there,
I mean,
maybe other shows do,
do this.
I'm,
I'm sure they do,
but I,
I don't always notice it as much.
I feel like,
(13:12):
and I think for me like listening to and maybe it's because I haven't watched them as much as I have with Buffy.
But I just like when those themes are coming,
I,
I can recognize those,
those themes like the Angel and Buffy theme like that.
Yeah,
like those are things that I um like the gift music,
the sequence and the Gift and the sequence and chosen those very much stand out to me or the sequence from Hush The Restless Suite is another one that just feels,
(13:42):
I mean,
again,
those,
those melodies feel so those suites feel so iconic and are such a huge part of creating uh creating it,
especially because it's part of this sort of,
you know,
it was this mixed genre or comedy,
drama sort of situation.
(14:02):
And so when you have these love themes and you,
you know,
when you get a really good love thing that,
that holds and you keep using it over and over again,
or you get the,
you know,
when you're dealing with,
uh you know,
the,
uh when you're dealing with uh restless and you're dealing with sort of this surreal plane of existence in this dream world where,
(14:25):
where there is this battle going on and all of that stuff creating,
you know,
using the music to create um the conversation that's happening on screen when there is no dialogue happening.
Right?
Yeah,
I mean,
I agree.
I think certainly out of the shows I've watched while,
you know,
they're all scored and the,
(14:47):
the music plays an important role to use like cliche terms.
It is,
feels more cinematic in Buffy than a lot of shows typically,
especially again,
you know,
can't I think stress the importance enough of the relatively small size of the show on its small network.
(15:08):
Um you know,
with limited resources and yet you can't tell that,
I think this,
you know,
the score is so incredible and those episodes would read differently with a,
a different score or a different composer behind it.
Um You know,
(15:29):
and a and a lot of that is also down to,
you know,
Joss Whedon himself.
Um There was a great quote from Chris Beck and Chris is basically,
if you,
if you think about the sound of Buffy,
he created it.
Um He was the longest running composer.
He wasn't there the entire series,
(15:51):
but he the Angel Buffy theme.
He did the gift,
he did Restless,
he was there for hush.
I mean,
that is all Chris back and this quote really kind of shows you how Buffy got its sound.
Um It's from into every generation of Slayers born how Buffy Staked Our Hearts by Evan Ross Katz.
(16:11):
And the quote is quote,
Joss Whedon loves big symphonic music and so do I,
and while the show is set in high school,
the themes and emotional arcs are big love,
life and death,
the end of the world just to name a few.
So I saw it as an opportunity to flex my orchestral muscles and write cinematic music that makes great use of reoccurring musical motifs.
(16:34):
It was truly an awesome compositional opportunity.
End quote.
Yeah,
I mean,
I,
I mean,
I agree with that.
I mean,
how can you argue with how can you argue with that?
I mean,
there's just there,
it really did.
It felt,
I like the word that you use cinematic.
(16:56):
I mean,
there,
it just made it,
I think it made the show feel bigger than it was um and gave it,
you know,
and really sort of created a universe that we could all um could all sort of feel comfortable in.
And,
and I think subconsciously when you hear those themes and when you start hearing those things,
I think it starts to pluck at some like emotional chords in your heart or,
(17:21):
or whatever like that you start to attach emotion with,
with the musical motifs that start coming up.
And so even if nothing's happening,
you're like,
oh here it comes,
I hear,
oh without a doubt,
I mean,
some of those musical sweets or motifs,
you know,
appear on the various soundtracks and I'm not even watching an episode,
(17:46):
I'll just be listening to a soundtrack and like,
it may cause me to tear up because like,
I know what goes along with it.
Um The music itself evokes it but it also like,
you know,
underscored,
but I'm bum the,
the scene,
it made the emotion in the scene even more,
(18:09):
right?
And one of the things too that I think of when I think of like the,
the music and the scoring behind it is that I think about the,
the DVD box sets,
right?
When I had the DVD si just remember because oftentimes because oftentimes I would watch Buffy over and over again,
I,
I would fall asleep and like all the episodes would play and then it would pop back to the main menu.
(18:33):
And so then like those,
the orchestration that was happening on the menu screen,
sometimes I would fall asleep to that or wake up,
wake up to those things because it was still playing.
So even those and those weren't like,
those were just nice musical moments in an episode that they took from there to use on that.
(18:55):
Um And just sort of the power of these sort of simple orchestrations that that occurred in one moment of one show can be so,
so powerful with such a powerful moment that they were like,
let's stick it here,
let's use it here.
Um So,
(19:16):
um I think we would be remiss not to talk about,
although it kind of overlaps a little bit,
but I um to talk about the theme itself,
like the theme song of,
of Buffy.
Um Yeah,
absolutely.
Um I,
I don't know if you learned this in your research.
I learned something that was new to me.
(19:38):
Apparently how this all happened was um they had hired a professional composer and Joss Whedon was not happy with what they were coming up with for the theme and it turned out a friend of Nerf Herder who eventually created the theme song,
turned Allison Hannigan onto their first indie release and she became such a fan that she shared it around with like the crew and cast,
(20:03):
including Joss Whedon and he loved it.
So he reached out to them and had them write the theme.
He wanted something like much more punk and,
you know,
basically what we got.
Um And that is how Nerve Hurter wrote the theme song to Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Thank you,
Allison Hannigan.
I know.
Thank you the friend of Nerve Hurter for turning Allison onto it.
(20:25):
I think that's so cool.
Yeah.
Um,
it's such a um and it got,
and even the theme song goes through some changes too.
I mean,
they,
um you can hear it in the first,
you know,
in season one.
you know,
it has,
it has a little bit of a grittier theme but I think as it goes on and I think by season three we get sort of the,
(20:46):
the more,
like polished,
I think,
sort of the polished version.
Um,
and there's the one with the scream and the one without the scream in there,
the scream goes away,
I think at one point.
Um.
Oh,
wow.
I never noticed that.
I think so.
Yeah.
Um,
I have to pay attention.
Yeah.
I think it's around season three or season four where that,
(21:07):
that's,
um,
Squire where they're like,
you know.
Um,
yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um,
I think,
yeah.
You know,
I,
I mean,
we especially grew up with theme songs to TV.
Shows being a big part of the show.
Like,
knowing the Brady Bunch theme,
even though that was before a time,
like,
we watched it and re,
you know,
reruns.
(21:28):
But,
um,
you know,
the,
uh,
like growing pains that was,
had lyrics like,
you know,
the songs to that or the lyrics to that.
Yeah.
Um What was the one with Michael J Fox?
Why can't I think of his show right now?
Family ties,
the Family ties the Golden Girl.
(21:48):
I mean,
it was like,
I mean,
it's particularly comedies but it was prime theme song.
Aging.
And so unfortunately a lot of that has gone away with streaming.
So I love that.
Buffy has such an enduring theme Every time I hear it,
I just want to like head bang and like dance around be in a mosh pit,
(22:09):
like it's so energizing.
It makes me excited to watch the show,
you know,
I'm like,
oh yeah,
let's go.
Yeah,
you,
you know what you're getting into,
I think like you're getting into something like hard and heavy and fun at the same time,
you know.
Um I mean,
even though,
oh,
I'm sorry,
go ahead and a little playful because you've got this band called Nerve,
(22:31):
which is,
you know,
so yeah,
I would agree like this is definitely the time where um where theme songs are going away,
where TV,
theme songs are going away.
I mean,
there are still some,
I mean,
there are a few TV shows that have like iconic theme songs,
(22:52):
like,
you know,
the Law and Order SVU theme song is freaking iconic like,
absolutely.
Yeah.
But yeah,
every like,
yeah,
I that's my superpower is that I can,
you know,
name a TV theme song and I can,
um,
tell you what it,
you know,
I can sing the theme song.
(23:14):
It's a good superpower to have.
Yeah,
it will.
And it's also,
even though it's very,
of its time,
it's also very timeless,
you know,
it doesn't,
it doesn't necessarily feel,
you know,
partly because obviously,
like punk and offshoots of punk music endure.
Um So it's not like punk's gone away and it feels like,
(23:36):
oh,
that was only from like the seventies to the nineties.
Um But yeah,
if I listen to it,
I'm like,
oh,
it definitely evokes that age of like punk and indie music in the nineties.
But at the same time,
I'm like,
it doesn't feel dated.
I'm not like,
oh,
gosh,
that,
that theme song feels so old,
right?
It's not like you're listening to like the theme song from like Dynasty or something like that,
(24:01):
which that's a very,
do you know,
that's like a grandiose sort of like weird um Yeah,
a orchestral thing.
Although that is an iconic theme song.
Um Yeah.
And so,
yeah,
it,
it's,
it's,
it's a great theme song.
I think it,
I mean,
it holds and,
(24:22):
and like you said that we start to get away from,
from theme songs and,
and having that with the,
the advent of streaming.
But also I think just a lot of um you know,
dramas started to,
you know,
just TV,
shows were like,
let's get into the action.
Like we like this feels like an unnecessary,
(24:43):
um,
an unnecessary thing to have to have because now we're just gonna,
like,
run people's names at the bottom of the screen,
you know,
and we're not gonna do the thing where it's like,
oh,
starring.
So and so,
and,
you know,
you need that time to introduce the actors in the show.
(25:04):
Um,
and it becomes less about the actors in the show and more about,
you know,
the show itself,
right?
Yeah,
I mean,
I think that was a combo of like the changing landscape of television and then also TV,
shows getting shorter so they could fit in more commercials or longer commercial breaks.
(25:28):
So it was like,
hey,
if we can cut somewhere,
so we can tell more story,
that's an obvious place to cut so hush where there is nothing but music because there are no vocal and like the importance of that and how that had to fill in um how that fills in the,
in the space and um and how the music conveys the horror um and the comedy of it all,
(25:58):
you know,
the horror,
the comedy,
the drama,
the action,
like it has everything,
I mean,
that that soundtrack has everything and it's so and it is so over scored like it like not over scored in a bad way but just like it is the,
it is the focus of that episode.
(26:18):
Right.
Absolutely.
It,
it's like it takes what silent films did like 100 times up,
right?
Um And you just,
yeah,
it evokes the,
the scariness.
Um and the,
and then the fact that like nobody can physically talk,
(26:40):
it's not like they're doing a silent episode where they've just decided not to do dialogue,
but like that ability is taken away and then you have these incredibly creepy looking creatures.
Um It might actually be one of the particularly when you first see it scariest episodes of Buffy,
I think you could argue.
(27:02):
Um It's definitely is much more in like old school horror style.
Um Yeah,
it's just such a cool episode.
I mean,
and to,
to do that,
I mean,
you've been going,
you've been going along especially like,
and it's,
and it's a brave choice to do an episode like that too because you,
(27:24):
especially by this time in season four,
you're talking about a show who is um touted for its dialogue for its snappy banter and it's witty comebacks and all of this stuff.
And then right in the middle of that,
you just take that all away.
Yeah,
which is exactly what he wanted to do.
That was the whole impetus for the episode and to rely on the strength of your cast and their acting abilities and your and your storytelling,
(27:55):
you as a storyteller to be able to convey this,
um convey these emotions and a lot of stuff happens in that episode too.
You know,
it's Tara and Willow,
it's um,
you know,
it's Xander realizing that he truly loves anya,
it's Riley,
figuring out who Buffy is.
(28:15):
I mean,
so much happens to everybody in that episode.
Um,
you know,
and the episode shows that particularly with these characters,
words can often get in the way they didn't,
sometimes they didn't truly communicate on some of these issues until their ability to do so with words was taken away.
(28:37):
Um,
and they really had to,
uh,
I don't know,
step up and,
and,
or they just,
it was more that they had like,
well,
it was a combination of things like you said,
the,
you know,
Xander had his realization.
Um,
you know,
I think not being able to speak,
(28:58):
probably got Tara over some of her shyness.
Um So she was really forced to reach out to willow and then of course,
you know,
Buffy and Riley couldn't hide me more behind their facades and the truth about what each of them do comes out.
That action speaks louder than words sort of situations.
(29:20):
I mean,
you know,
sort of instinct taking over.
I mean,
especially with Xander and anya like in that,
that moment and,
and even with,
with Tara and Willow,
like them being able to do magic together and,
and like that moment of,
oh this,
we can really do this together.
Um Yeah,
(29:41):
it's such a,
it is,
it is such a great episode.
Um And the score for that is just,
it's stellar.
It's,
I wish I knew more about sort of like some musical Mochis as much as,
or as much or as little as I know about music.
(30:02):
Um,
I'm sure that there is some really wonderful,
um,
there's some clever,
something other story being told and,
uh,
and a lot of these suits and things like that that I would love to know more about.
Yeah,
it would definitely be fun to take some sort of course on the uh scoring composition of Buffy.
(30:29):
If any of the composers of Buffy are listening right now,
that would be great.
We would love to talk to you about what that was like composing these things.
What was the,
the musical motifs and stories you were telling with those notes,
just reach out to us a soundtrack of Buffy,
The Vampire Slayer just as important,
(30:50):
I think as the original score.
Um It's certainly one of the first shows for me that it caught my attention,
you know,
between the fact,
like you said,
they,
they have the Bronze.
So you had bands appearing,
you know,
weekly or every few weeks,
depending on when a scene was shot at the Bronze.
(31:11):
But then a lot of that music was used in key moments um of the series as well.
Yeah.
So,
right.
Um Because the,
the thing that they chose to do,
so you're,
we're in the nineties and we're teen shows,
we've got like 90210,
you know,
music is really,
there's a lot of,
(31:32):
you know,
cultural music references happening.
Um People are using pop songs on TV shows,
but Buffy,
they make the choice not to do that at least very often and to go with more um to go with more of a grungy um sound uh for this,
for this small town.
(31:54):
Um So we get all of these very much like indie punk bands and um things playing the Bronze and doing all that and sort of filling in,
you know,
over the orchestration,
which I think works better,
you know,
because especially when you're,
when you're about to do a transition from some of the orchestration that we have going on and what we're doing with the score,
(32:20):
especially when it comes to um like the fight sequences because most of like a lot of times,
you know,
you wrap the bronze and there's a band plan and it's like du du du du and then a fight breaks out like that going into like du du du du,
I don't want no scrubs feel super weird like that just doesn't seem like a thing that's gonna work.
(32:42):
So like you have to come up with a sound that compliments what you've already created as the score.
And so it,
or you know,
the sound of the show.
Yeah.
And what and what that is?
Well,
I think it's also a bit of synchronicity in that.
(33:02):
Um And I believe I mentioned this in another episode.
Um It may be one that's actually coming up.
So you may not have heard me say this yet.
Um But again,
I believe I remember reading or it may have been in the,
um,
commentaries on the DVD s.
But part of the reason they got the bands that they did is they had very little money to hire bands.
(33:26):
And so they,
you know,
it was,
you,
you could get these indie bands for a lot less.
And then that was also a very predominant aspect of the L A music scene at the time.
So it fit it,
luckily fit the show,
like what was happening in music at the time in L A fit the show.
So it,
it was a great,
(33:46):
um like I said,
synchronicity,
it just all came together and worked really well.
You know,
they may have,
I,
I don't know if they,
this is one thing I've never seen um and written anywhere or heard in anywhere,
but I don't know if they adapted what they were doing to fit that because that was what was available or again,
it just was all like perfectly came together,
(34:09):
write music for the right show at the right time.
Yeah,
I mean,
from the things that I've read,
it seemed like that was like,
like you said,
I mean,
there is sort of this idea like that there was a lot of this indie,
um you know,
indie pop happening in L A.
But I think it was very,
I mean,
I think it was very intentional,
all of that was incredibly intentional um basically from the beginning that they wanted to create this um you know,
(34:38):
create the sound and create this especially beca you know,
especially with a place like the bronze with all of these where everyone is playing,
you know,
what kind of bands are you going to be booking here?
You know,
you're not,
you're not gonna get a whole lot of um big names playing at the Bronze.
(34:59):
That feels again,
that feels like a weird thing to have um to have happen.
So there is something that I found this was from an older article.
Um but just talking about sort of the influence um is that after like,
even after the show was over,
(35:22):
there was a UK pop band,
a pop punk band called The Potentials,
I found out and so,
and everything that they did was about like being a potential slayer or superhero.
Um you know,
and all of that stuff and so they wrote songs about witches and um and vengeance demons on the internet.
(35:47):
Um And it was all like riot girl,
like,
you know,
uh riot girl music.
So I,
again,
I think that like the influence of the music on the show went well beyond,
you know,
continues to inspire people.
Um and groups,
(36:07):
well after the show was over.
Yeah.
Um Oh,
and then I love the fact that nerve hurter is the last band to play at the bronze.
That was awesome.
That was like,
good for you.
Very fitting.
So fitting.
Yeah.
Which actually,
oh,
just saying that reminds me I was going to say the other thing about the bands um used both at the bronze and just,
(36:30):
you know,
the,
the music used in the soundtrack for the show.
What you were speaking to about,
it didn't tie into what was popular at that period of time.
Like,
none of the artists that were in the top,
you know,
40 were going to be on Buffy.
It also spoke to the cool factor of the show and the cult nature of the show.
(36:51):
You know,
because if you were like,
if you really like some of the stuff you were being exposed to,
it was like,
you know,
I'm sure a lot of your friends were not knew,
didn't know of it unless they were also Buffy fans or happened to be like,
way into,
you know,
indie punk music.
Um So it gave you this,
like,
hey,
I'm listening to like some deep cut stuff that not everyone knows about,
(37:13):
you know,
you know,
about these guys.
Right.
Exactly.
Well,
and I,
and I feel like that's where,
and that's kind of where sometimes I've,
I like it and I think it works,
but it is like the one when Michelle Branch comes on,
I think it is kind of the one time that it was like,
oh,
ratings grab.
(37:33):
But it just,
but the song is so good and it worked because I remember that song was everywhere.
That song was.
Like,
everybody knew that song,
that song played once in an hour,
every hour on every station.
Um,
it was in heavy,
heavy rotation.
So for them,
it was a huge get,
(37:53):
you know,
and it was,
you know,
it was upn years.
So I think they were,
they needed something for,
they were also probably looking for,
you know,
a ratings grab in that moment.
I'm glad that it paid off though.
I'm glad that,
like,
it was one of those things where it works because she's so youthful and because that song specifically works so well with everything that they were doing in Tableau Rasa,
(38:20):
like it just,
it really sort of saying goodbye to all these relationships and stuff like that.
Like,
it really worked in that.
Um,
otherwise I feel like it could have been a real big mess for them.
Yeah.
Well,
it's funny,
I remember,
uh,
reading stuff online.
I don't know if it was like,
message boards.
It must have been because it was pre social media,
(38:43):
but some of the fans were kind of bitching about it.
Um,
because I think they did feel like,
oh,
she's too well known.
But the other aspect of it is I remember people were kind of,
and again in like a judgmental snotty way.
Well,
this is how I was reading it and I have no idea who this is.
They would probably have changed their opinion since then as we,
(39:05):
you know,
grow up.
But they were sort of like saying,
oh,
well,
I heard that Josh told Michelle to slow it down and do it more like acoustic,
like,
so that would actually fit,
you know,
which is entirely possible,
but that was definitely done with like a,
oh,
I can't believe,
sort of like tone to the,
to the comments.
(39:25):
Um But you can actually find I'm not saying it's that same version,
but that tone down more acoustic version on her.
I don't know if it was a re release of the album,
but you can certainly find it because it's on the streaming version of the album that I listened to and I do have to say I like that version better.
Um And it just maybe because for me it's tied to that episode.
(39:47):
So I like the la this like the slower,
less full on rock version and I don't remember and quite frankly,
maybe it's because,
because that's maybe that's the version that I always hear in my head when I,
when I think about that song,
but I don't remember the song being that much faster or more like that,
much more robust than it's not,
(40:10):
it's not hugely different.
You're right.
Um I mean,
I'm sure it has,
it's a little bit because she,
I think she just starts off.
I think probably the first part of it is stripped down a little bit and then when she gets it because they bring in the drums and all of that stuff and then at the end of it she gets a little bit more.
It's probably just,
it's like a,
(40:30):
a,
an unplugged session or whatever,
like,
of the song,
you know.
Yeah.
I think it just may feel maybe a little bit sadder.
Yeah,
in that version,
which obviously works.
So,
I mean,
yeah,
it's a sad song.
It is a sad song.
All right,
we discussed in the musical.
I've got a theory.
(40:54):
OK.
Um Where to start?
I don't even know how I,
how do I look?
Ok.
Do you remember your state of mind and like how you watched it?
Like when you watched it,
do you remember that time period when it came out?
(41:17):
So,
what were you?
I blacked out um during the musical.
Um It was an out of body experience for me.
No,
I was,
I remember um I was living with um some friends of mine.
Uh we were doing,
we were doing a tour together and so we lived together,
but we were all watching Buffy and we were very,
(41:38):
very excited about it.
Um And we were in the living room like we had a whole set up,
you know,
we were super um excited.
We had like the spread the snack spread out and ready.
And I just remember,
you know,
just being so,
(42:00):
so excited and being like overly more excited than a grown person should probably be about,
about a television show.
Um and just,
and when,
when she's singing that,
that first song,
um and she's singing her,
I want song and she's like,
you know,
and she goes,
(42:20):
and I just wanna be steak alive.
I lost my ever loving mind.
I went crazy and I was like,
she's a Disney princess,
you know,
and then 25 years later,
she would become one,
(42:40):
right?
Just a complete nut job about the entire thing.
I loved every single moment of it.
I think we were,
I think we were,
I'm sure we did recorded it and probably went back and watched it again,
like immediately after no,
because we had to watch Angel and then we watched Angel and then went back and watched,
(43:04):
um,
and rewatched it again.
Yeah.
How about you?
What was your,
do you remember?
You kind of similar experience?
I was stage managing at the time and there was someone on the crew who I befriended and I found out,
(43:25):
oh,
she's a Buffy fan.
So I actually,
and this was like me living on my own for the first time,
post college I invited over.
And I really think this was like my first guest.
I remember I cooked like a whole meal and none of the food like made sense.
It was just all the things I could cook well.
Like I made mac and cheese and then I made these really delicious um black bean cakes with like a mango salsa doesn't go together,
(43:51):
but like everything was great and then,
you know,
I probably had some additional stuff and,
and drinks and yeah,
it was and so she and her girlfriend came over and it was just the three of us and I was like,
super excited to have a friend who watched Buffy first of all.
So that was like number one.
Um And yeah,
we,
it was sort of the same,
like we were just so hyped up and,
you know,
she was also a theater person.
(44:11):
So that was like,
you know,
we came from a love of like theater,
musical theater.
So that helped and just,
it was just like,
it was better than I expected.
And I remember when it ended thinking this kind of reminds me,
I get a very Sondheim vibe from it.
And then I remember reading an article or an interview with Joss Whedon not long after it came out and that was one of his inspirations and I just felt like so smart getting that vibe.
(44:39):
I felt like I was like,
yes,
I'm on your wavelength.
I get it.
So it's so funny that like,
I,
I also remember thinking once it was over,
like once we just kept thinking this needs to be like,
a staged musical like this needs to be.
Um,
years later.
Um,
(45:01):
some friends of mine did do their own version of it,
like in a little canteen production where they did,
um,
once more with feeling,
which was super cute.
Um,
it works really well as a stage as a stage thing and they do it at,
they,
they used to,
(45:21):
I think they still might do it at Dragon Con.
I know they used to do,
um,
sort of the Rocky horror version of it.
I was lucky enough to go to one of those before the Fox shut it down.
Um,
it was in this awesome,
um,
historic movie theater,
(45:43):
like old school movie theater in Chicago.
And,
like,
I remember so much because I was with a,
uh,
I volunteered with an organization and that day was their big annual fundraiser,
which was a day of service.
Like you went out to schools and did kind of like the way habitat humanity,
(46:04):
but you're not like rebuilding a school,
you're just going in and like repainting or cleaning up things or,
you know,
just kind of helping out schools that were in like lower income neighborhoods.
So they didn't always have the resources they needed anyway.
That's neither here nor there.
But like I was at that all day and then I had,
was going to the,
um,
showing of once more with feeling that night and I was so sick,
(46:29):
but I was like,
I am not missing out.
I did my volunteer thing.
I rallied.
I like came home right away and showered at eight.
Did not let myself like relax at all because I was like,
I am not falling asleep.
This is like my one opportunity you are pushing through and I pushed through and it was so much fun.
It makes me so sad that they can't do those anymore because it was like,
(46:51):
if you've never been to one and you're gonna think you're thinking to yourself,
oh my God,
it must be the most amazing thing to be with so many Buffy fans watching the iconic episode and singing along and people dress up.
It is that and more,
it was everything I had ever hoped it would be.
I it was phenomenal,
phenomenal.
I love it.
(47:12):
I think it's so much fun.
It was so good.
So anyway,
as to the quality of the episode.
Yeah,
it kind of wasn't that good.
I don't know what we have to talk about.
There's nothing to talk about it.
It's just,
I mean,
well,
I think we,
when we've mentioned the episode before,
I think in,
in other episodes of our podcast to reiterate what we've said before is,
(47:36):
you know,
this was not a commonly done thing.
And when it had been done previously,
well,
first off,
there was,
as we mentioned that cop rock show which was terrible and like died almost immediately.
Um I,
I can't remember I had,
there been a musical episode,
I think there had been before but it,
it was maybe one or two.
(47:58):
Yeah.
I don't think there.
Yeah,
there wasn't a whole lot of,
um,
I don't think there was a lot out there.
No,
I mean,
this basically set the precedent,
um,
you know,
the fact that,
like,
Scrubs and,
as you said,
was it Star Trek Discovery?
And even,
(48:19):
um,
even though they used not original songs,
but the Grey's Anatomy one,
like,
none of that probably would have happened without the once more with feeling.
Yeah,
for sure.
Um,
so I'm just doing a quick,
like,
(48:41):
so,
yeah,
when we're looking at,
um,
and look like,
when you look at stuff,
when you saw musicals on TV,
like you were looking at more,
um,
you're looking more at,
uh,
like musical productions being done as,
(49:02):
um,
as,
as something that happens on TV,
but you're not really getting,
um,
you know,
you're not really getting like these episodes,
you're not getting like an episode of a show.
Um,
I mean,
maybe and again,
(49:23):
like,
hm,
you get singing in shows,
like,
if you go back to like the Brady Bunch or the Partridge Family or something like that,
you've got,
you know,
those sort of singing kind of things but,
you know,
post in a Post Buffy world,
everyone does a musical episode now,
(49:43):
like,
it's the thing to do.
Um,
like everyone does it,
um,
you know,
So it just,
it,
it really just sort of set,
set the scale and I just tried to do a quick Google search to see if I could find anything.
Um,
you know,
sort of pre Buffy and nothing that I see is really coming up,
(50:06):
um,
in doing the research for this.
I know I came across like,
I believe it was one or two and I,
I apologize.
I did not make note of it for some reason.
Um But yeah,
I mean,
it was basically Buffy and then whatever came after Buffy,
it definitely set the breast on it.
And I think partly why is,
which is maybe why those previous ones didn't necessarily work.
(50:29):
And I say this not having seen them,
but one of the things that Buffy did really well,
is it tied it to the story?
It advanced the story.
It wasn't like a one off like,
oh,
we're gonna do this wacky thing for ratings,
but it doesn't really matter to the rest of the series.
It's like as we talked about,
somebody had posted on one of the Facebook groups that they skipped the episode because they don't like musicals and everyone was yelling at them.
(50:55):
You have to go back and watch it.
It is so critical to what happens in that in season six.
Like,
even if you don't like a musical,
you cannot miss this episode.
It is not a one off.
It is so integral to everything that happens in season six.
Well,
and it's one of those things that if you actually skip that episode.
Yeah,
like,
(51:16):
or you could watch that episode and figure out everything that's happening in the show solely based on just watching that one episode,
I think too,
because of the success of that.
And because you see how that works so well.
Um,
we get other series,
like we get like musical series,
like My Crazy ex-girlfriend,
(51:36):
which is a great series.
Um That's a musical series.
Um There was Galahad,
oh,
I forgot about that.
I did watch that one.
You know,
and so the idea that a television show could be a musical does work.
(51:57):
I love that the cast was up for it.
Um And that everyone participated as themselves,
even if they weren't a strong singer.
Yeah,
for sure.
You know,
and I know like Allison Hannigan has been quoted as saying,
like she singing is not her thing.
So she kind of pulled back and then afterwards we like,
(52:18):
damn it,
I wish I'd actually,
like,
just gotten over my fear and part,
you know,
had,
had a song or a duet or whatever it was,
which I get as me,
like,
I love to sing,
but that is not my strong suit either.
Uh I,
I mean,
I get that like,
it's one of those things,
I don't know,
maybe just as a non singer,
it resonates more but it just feels like one of the most terrifying things to put yourself out there for when you can't because people are so judgy about it.
(52:47):
Yeah.
I mean,
it's true.
I think that's,
um,
and people are very judgmental about,
about it.
And so,
um,
you know,
but then when you look at what Alison did,
did on dancing with the stars and see how,
like,
amazing she did and like how many people she moved by,
you know,
overcoming that fear.
(53:08):
Um It's,
it's really great the,
you know,
and it's,
you know,
because they're,
I just like,
in some of my research on this,
I just think it's interesting too,
like the musical background of um of the artist,
you know,
of the actors in the show,
you know,
(53:28):
Oz has some um you know,
has some musical background but then you've got like,
I mean,
Giles who was in Rocky Horror and,
you know,
and all the times that he and James,
you know,
with his band and that's the other thing too is like all the times that Giles sang,
we didn't even talk like,
you know,
in terms of that,
like,
and his um too bad,
(53:50):
they couldn't have him do it more often.
Yeah,
because um I mean,
that would have been a great midlife crisis in season four for him to like,
have more gigs right where Giles is just playing the Bronze.
It's acoustic night on the,
at the Bronze Open mic night at the bronze and there's just child just playing away.
(54:12):
Um And then of course,
Danny Strong goes on to um to produce and Core Empire,
which is this whole hip hop theme soap opera again,
which works like it's a,
it's a drama that has this musical,
you know,
element into it.
(54:33):
So,
you know,
it really kind of um kind of worked in,
in that way.
So I think that once more,
I mean,
we've talked about once more of a feeling so much before I feel like um but I think these,
these little extra bits are um are kind of key.
(54:55):
Yeah.
Ok.
So here comes the question,
favorite song.
It's the,
it's the duet between um Giles and,
and Tara.
Tara.
That was mine.
Yeah,
it's my favorite.
I think we've talked about this offline.
Maybe that's what it is.
(55:16):
Yeah,
I know that they like the overlay of the music,
their voices,
it's gorgeous and it's so emotional.
Like I get everything that they're feeling in that moment.
That song lives rent free in my head.
Like,
like I am constantly.
Yeah,
(55:36):
I like so much.
I remember after that I went and bought um his album Music For Elevators um that he did because,
because Amber Benson was on it,
she did some background vocals on that.
Um It was pretty good.
It wasn't ok.
It wasn't necessarily my exactly what I wanted,
(56:00):
but it was still good.
I enjoyed it.
Um OK,
so as we wrap up.
I've got my trivia.
Oh OK.
The thing I was super excited to tell you about.
I really hope you don't know because I want to like,
be able to tell you,
be the one to tell you.
All right.
So one we've already discussed and,
and you know,
but one of the cool connections between,
(56:21):
one of the cool many connections between Buffy and the movie Bring it on is that the score was done by Chris Beck who was doing Buffy at the time as well.
So that was cool.
OK,
here's my big one.
So I was re looking up who did the vocals for Jonathan when he sang that beautiful song at the Bronze during superstar,
(56:46):
I wanted to like confirm it was who I thought it was and I was correct.
But then I this is where I discovered all this new information about that person that blew my mind.
So do you know who it was that did the vocals?
Because it was not um it wasn't Danny.
Danny strong singing.
No,
(57:07):
correct.
They brought in a vocal double.
I do not know who it is.
It was Brad Kane.
Do you know who Brad Kane is?
I don't know who Brad Kane is.
Brad Kane is probably most well known and this is what I knew him from as having done the vocals on the,
on Aladdin,
the original Disney animated Aladdin.
(57:27):
So like,
you know,
they had different um act,
they had actors to do the speaking role and then they had brought in two singers to do the singing role.
And Brad Kane did Aladdin.
He was Aladdin's uh,
song double or whatever you call it.
Um Here's where my mind was blown.
Did you know that Brad Kane played Tucker Wells?
(57:52):
Oh,
I had no idea that he also played Tucker Wells.
So,
Tucker and the,
the one from,
um,
from the pro,
he's Andrew's brother and he's the one that released the Hellhound is,
is the vocal double.
(58:13):
Correct?
For Jonathan.
And wait,
here comes the next part.
Guess who?
He is married to Sarah Thompson A K A Eve from Angel.
What?
Right.
Who was in cruel intentions too?
With Amy Adams.
(58:35):
It is degrees of Buffy circle,
one degree of Buffy,
the whole like him playing soccer and him being married to Sarah Thompson blew my mind when I was reading his like info and it said married to Sarah Thompson.
I was like,
that name is awfully familiar and I was like,
I think it's Eve but let's also,
(58:56):
let's face it like a pretty common name.
So I like,
you know,
I further Googled and I was like,
sure enough it is that Sarah Thompson,
that's why I was like,
mind blown.
So that is my like,
facts of the podcast.
Ok.
So that's a good one.
So the,
so the person who's singing the song that's,
(59:18):
oh,
it's off a new album.
And superstar is the guy who releases the hell hounds in the prom,
who is married to the Sassy uh administrative assistant from the senior partners from w from heart and see the liaison,
(59:39):
the phone to the,
to the senior partners.
And he sang all of Aladdin songs in the original Disney animated film.
Yes.
And I think who has a beautiful voice like that actually is one thing I was really bummed They didn't do on any of the soundtracks is release him singing that song.
(01:00:00):
I wish there was a way,
a way you could get that song.
If you know of a way to get that song,
please send us an email and let us know because I would love to find out like if it's uh available somewhere that I did not know about,
that was worth the wait.
That was definitely,
I like,
really wanted to tell you the other day and I was like,
(01:00:21):
no,
no,
I'm gonna save it for the episode.
Save it for the podcast.
That was good.
That was good.
I did not know that.
I did not know that at all.
That's very cool.
I love that.
Oh,
my goodness.
All right.
Well,
thanks everyone so much for listening.
We hope you enjoyed this episode of a girl,
(01:00:41):
a guy in a Buffy podcast.
Yes.
And if you like what you heard,
please like and review us and leave us a little message and tell us what you think.
Um And you know,
follow us on Facebook and Instagram at a Buffy podcast.
You can email us at a Buffy podcast at gmail.com.
(01:01:05):
All right.
So thanks so much and we will see you next time for our Oh,
it's,
it's coming up.
We're coming up on the end of the season here.
Ok,
thanks so much.
All right,
we'll see you all next time.
Bye bye.
Hey,
everyone.
Welcome to a girl,
a guy and a Buffy podcast.
I'm one of your co-host,
Kate Balder and I'm Charles Swint.
Hey,
welcome back.
How are you doing Charles?
I'm doing all right.
I'm doing good.
How are you?
I'm good.
I'm good.
Ready to talk all things,
music and Buffy the Vampire Slayer,
la la la la la.
(00:31):
It would have been better if you drilled in the theme song to Buffy.
00 For those of you who are just joining us uh for the first time.
Uh We are two friends who were watching uh who have been watching Buffy the Buck Buff.
(00:53):
Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Wow,
that was weird.
We were two friends who have been watching Buffy the Vampire Slayer uh for,
you know,
since the beginning and this is not a re-watch podcast.
This is a spoilery podcast and we were talking about big bad themes.
Um And this season,
(01:13):
uh our theme is pop culture.
So the season we've been talking about all things,
pop culture and Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
And this episode is all about music.
Yes.
As you can tell we're gonna do musical keys during the show.
(01:33):
We did not discuss this but it's coming out.
Um,
oh,
wait,
I don't know if we can sing all of these.
There might be,
there might be some copyright issues.
I didn't,
I sang less than 30 seconds of it.
I think we'll be ok.
I think we'll be fine.
(01:55):
Um,
uh,
ok.
What's your experience with me?
Like,
what are your personal experience?
Well,
I,
um,
mainly it's been around piano.
My mom put me into piano lessons around like the age of like,
five or six.
and I took piano lessons for about probably 10 years.
(02:19):
I was about 15 or 16 when I stopped and it really wasn't because I didn't like it,
it was because I started getting into a whole lot of other activities in high school.
And then it was around the time that we had moved,
um,
down to Georgia and the first a piano teacher I got,
(02:39):
he was a,
um,
like a master student,
I think at Georgia State University,
um,
in music.
And I don't know,
he just,
he was fine but,
like,
I didn't really,
I wasn't really learning from him.
In fact,
I remember having,
like,
conversations with him about books.
I mean,
he was great.
Like,
we had a really good conversation.
He was like the first adult that I remember meeting and he was like,
(03:01):
in his twenties.
So,
like,
it's not like he was all that much older than me.
Uh,
who was,
like,
really into,
um,
he read a lot of more nonfiction books and I was like,
whoa,
like,
I'd only,
you know,
my whole thing was,
like,
fiction.
So I feel like he opened my eyes that way.
But he didn't,
like I did,
he didn't get,
it was kind of like,
(03:23):
you know,
he'd send me home with a piece,
I'd do it.
I'd come and,
like,
it just wasn't,
I sh,
I don't know why I didn't go look for another piano teacher,
but for whatever reason I didn't,
like I said,
I think it was because I was getting involved in so many other activities.
Um,
so I've tried to,
like,
kind of keep it up over the years.
Um,
but not fixed up quite well.
(03:43):
Not really.
Um,
I,
there was a period of time where I was,
like,
getting back into the swing of it,
but now it's been so long that it's like,
I feel like I type,
like,
I play the piano,
like somebody who pecks at typing plays,
like I'm so slow because I've forgotten so much.
I'm like,
I need to do some adult lessons.
I would love to start playing again.
(04:04):
Um,
I actually do miss it.
I really loved it.
And most of my experience,
like,
most of my piano teachers were kind of typical of,
you know,
a lot of piano teachers is most of the focus was on classical music,
but it did help me develop an appreciation of classical music.
Um,
I,
I remember,
I think I asked to do some more popular stuff and it kind of makes me laugh.
(04:27):
Now,
the pieces that one of my teachers,
um,
who I love,
she was one of my favorite teachers pulled out for me to do.
We did,
um Killing Me Softly with his song,
like the original,
this was before the Fiji version,
but it made me laugh because when the Fiji,
yeah,
Roberta Flack,
when the Fiji version came out,
I like,
totally knew it.
(04:48):
You were like,
I know this one song and then uh Piano Man by Billy Joel.
So like,
it was,
they were good songs.
They were probably a little bit more like main uh like uh classic pop or yeah,
classic pop but nothing like a Quran.
Like I wasn't playing Madonna or you know,
which I think is what I kind of wanted.
(05:09):
But um but yeah,
that's mostly my experience with music.
Well,
and then just using music for dance.
I was always,
I'm also a dancer and I danced through college.
So,
you know,
using music for dance and that was probably like even more.
So my initial connection to music and I still always prefer like more melodic music where there's the opportunity to dance because my first exposure was like pop music for,
(05:37):
you know,
baby ballet,
baby jazz,
baby tap.
Oh I love it.
Yeah.
So what's your,
tell us about your experience.
Uh Mine is so mostly,
like,
mostly mine is in chorus.
I did chorus like all through like elementary school and middle school and high school.
(05:57):
Um,
and even into college.
So I did,
you know,
I was in all kinds of like chorus groups and,
um,
you know,
you know,
I did magical in high school and Corral and all of that nerdy,
you know,
chorus stuff.
So I did a lot of like classical music,
a lot of classical songs and a lot of classical pieces and,
(06:19):
you know,
and Latin and,
you know,
uh the requiems and all of those um all of those things.
Um and I did in high school,
I did some vocal jazz.
I was in a vocal jazz group in high school.
Did you know that?
You know,
OK,
so this is at chat,
this was at high school.
(06:39):
Yeah,
we made,
we made a,
we made a vocal jazz album.
We got,
oh my gosh,
people,
like we went to school together,
we saw each other every day.
This was senior year,
this was senior year.
OK.
(06:59):
If I knew this,
I have 100% forgotten,
which is actually completely is possible,
which is totally possible.
Um Yeah,
we went to uh we got a grant um through like the Grammys in the schools program to make a vocal jazz album.
And so we rehearsed all year and then I think it was like in the spring,
(07:23):
we went to,
uh,
Tree Sound Studios,
um,
where,
like,
you know,
outcast and like all these,
like,
big huge name,
people were like,
recording their albums.
Um,
and we went into the studio for the day and we recorded this,
we recorded like,
I don't know,
like eight or 10 songs.
That's so cool.
(07:44):
Do you still have it?
Uh,
I don't,
I,
well,
maybe I do somewhere.
I don't know,
but I know that it's online somewhere.
I'll have to find it because somebody,
um somebody on uh somebody in the group found it during COVID and like shared it with all of us um on there.
(08:07):
Yeah,
it was crazy.
Um So that was,
we did a lot of,
of that stuff.
So,
um and then of course with dance and things like that.
But um I tried to do piano for a little bit.
My dad got me into like,
gave me lessons,
but I really didn't like the lessons,
but I had keyboards all the time.
Like we had keyboards and guitars,
(08:29):
none of which I could play.
Um And so I would like,
I would figure things out basically by like by sound.
And so I would just try to figure out how to play things,
um,
you know,
by ear,
which,
you know,
that didn't really help.
But like I used to,
I figured out like a Janet Jackson song to play.
(08:51):
Um and then like this,
the Peanuts theme,
I figured that out by by ear too.
So that,
I mean,
but if I had to do it now,
I don't know if I could or I could get like a couple of notes,
but then I blow the rest.
Yeah.
You,
you saying that reminded me?
I forgot,
I actually played clarinet for a short period too.
(09:14):
I really loved it.
Um,
but it was,
again,
a move happened.
So I learned it at one school,
moved,
went to be like in the band in elementary school.
And I did not like the band instructor.
He was rather sexist.
I mean,
he does had a preferential treatment towards boys and I immediately like,
(09:35):
saw that and I was like,
I'm miserable.
I'm very unhappy.
I don't want to do this.
Um And,
you know,
like other than doing things through school at,
especially at the time if you're not like thinking career wise,
um,
where,
where else you can like,
use the clarinet,
you know.
So I guess that's probably like,
I don't,
(09:56):
you know,
I don't know why I didn't do private lessons,
but for whatever reason I didn't.
But yeah,
so that,
you know,
shout out to like awesome teachers.
Teachers make such a difference and whether you continue or pursue whatever it is that you're learning a bad teacher can definitely turn you off.
Thank you.
Music teachers are under appreciated music teachers out there.
(10:18):
Absolutely,
very much appreciate it.
Yeah.
Yes.
So the music,
so we see how music has influenced us.
Um And obviously music influenced Buffy and the show and,
and everything.
Um Yeah,
(10:39):
I mean,
music is just,
it's,
if it's oftentimes if it's done really well in television or film,
you don't notice it,
but it is so critical and if they took it away,
you would realize how critical of a role it plays,
(11:01):
you know,
in,
in helping to tell the story.
And so I think like for the purposes of our discussion,
if we're going to break this down into a couple of different,
a couple of different pieces,
uh you know,
the overall,
the overall score,
we're talking about like the score of,
of the,
of the show,
the orchestration and all of that stuff.
(11:23):
Um because Buffy was a show that unlike other shows,
you know,
had all these bands playing all the time too,
which was also sort of a part of the soundtrack to everything.
Uh and then it also had a musical episode.
So we're going to kind of break it down in,
in those ways and looking at like the score of Buffy,
the Bands of Buffy and the musical episode of,
(11:44):
of Buffy.
So orchestration.
Yeah.
Well,
I was just gonna say 11 thing to add about the purpose of music.
Um And I got this from a website called CN I Studios and I think it's just a great couple of points to remind us about how important music is.
(12:07):
So it helps create atmosphere,
it sets mood and tone for a scene,
adds depth and texture to advance the scene or story.
It's a way to communicate to the audience without words and it definitely provoke,
provokes emotional reactions and,
you know,
that certainly applies all of that to Buffy score.
(12:28):
Right.
Yes.
Um You know,
there is,
there's so much to ta there's so much to talk about it and like the,
the way that they,
the way that they sort of create these suits and these,
um you know,
these,
these uh melodic uh themes for,
(12:51):
for the characters and for the shows is really,
um it's really impressive and I,
and I don't know,
I don't know if there,
I mean,
maybe other shows do,
do this.
I'm,
I'm sure they do,
but I,
I don't always notice it as much.
I feel like,
(13:12):
and I think for me like listening to and maybe it's because I haven't watched them as much as I have with Buffy.
But I just like when those themes are coming,
I,
I can recognize those,
those themes like the Angel and Buffy theme like that.
Yeah,
like those are things that I um like the gift music,
the sequence and the Gift and the sequence and chosen those very much stand out to me or the sequence from Hush The Restless Suite is another one that just feels,
(13:42):
I mean,
again,
those,
those melodies feel so those suites feel so iconic and are such a huge part of creating uh creating it,
especially because it's part of this sort of,
you know,
it was this mixed genre or comedy,
drama sort of situation.
(14:02):
And so when you have these love themes and you,
you know,
when you get a really good love thing that,
that holds and you keep using it over and over again,
or you get the,
you know,
when you're dealing with,
uh you know,
the,
uh when you're dealing with uh restless and you're dealing with sort of this surreal plane of existence in this dream world where,
(14:25):
where there is this battle going on and all of that stuff creating,
you know,
using the music to create um the conversation that's happening on screen when there is no dialogue happening.
Right?
Yeah,
I mean,
I agree.
I think certainly out of the shows I've watched while,
you know,
they're all scored and the,
(14:47):
the music plays an important role to use like cliche terms.
It is,
feels more cinematic in Buffy than a lot of shows typically,
especially again,
you know,
can't I think stress the importance enough of the relatively small size of the show on its small network.
(15:08):
Um you know,
with limited resources and yet you can't tell that,
I think this,
you know,
the score is so incredible and those episodes would read differently with a,
a different score or a different composer behind it.
Um You know,
(15:29):
and a and a lot of that is also down to,
you know,
Joss Whedon himself.
Um There was a great quote from Chris Beck and Chris is basically,
if you,
if you think about the sound of Buffy,
he created it.
Um He was the longest running composer.
He wasn't there the entire series,
(15:51):
but he the Angel Buffy theme.
He did the gift,
he did Restless,
he was there for hush.
I mean,
that is all Chris back and this quote really kind of shows you how Buffy got its sound.
Um It's from into every generation of Slayers born how Buffy Staked Our Hearts by Evan Ross Katz.
(16:11):
And the quote is quote,
Joss Whedon loves big symphonic music and so do I,
and while the show is set in high school,
the themes and emotional arcs are big love,
life and death,
the end of the world just to name a few.
So I saw it as an opportunity to flex my orchestral muscles and write cinematic music that makes great use of reoccurring musical motifs.
(16:34):
It was truly an awesome compositional opportunity.
End quote.
Yeah,
I mean,
I,
I mean,
I agree with that.
I mean,
how can you argue with how can you argue with that?
I mean,
there's just there,
it really did.
It felt,
I like the word that you use cinematic.
(16:56):
I mean,
there,
it just made it,
I think it made the show feel bigger than it was um and gave it,
you know,
and really sort of created a universe that we could all um could all sort of feel comfortable in.
And,
and I think subconsciously when you hear those themes and when you start hearing those things,
I think it starts to pluck at some like emotional chords in your heart or,
(17:21):
or whatever like that you start to attach emotion with,
with the musical motifs that start coming up.
And so even if nothing's happening,
you're like,
oh here it comes,
I hear,
oh without a doubt,
I mean,
some of those musical sweets or motifs,
you know,
appear on the various soundtracks and I'm not even watching an episode,
(17:46):
I'll just be listening to a soundtrack and like,
it may cause me to tear up because like,
I know what goes along with it.
Um The music itself evokes it but it also like,
you know,
underscored,
but I'm bum the,
the scene,
it made the emotion in the scene even more,
(18:09):
right?
And one of the things too that I think of when I think of like the,
the music and the scoring behind it is that I think about the,
the DVD box sets,
right?
When I had the DVD si just remember because oftentimes because oftentimes I would watch Buffy over and over again,
I,
I would fall asleep and like all the episodes would play and then it would pop back to the main menu.
(18:33):
And so then like those,
the orchestration that was happening on the menu screen,
sometimes I would fall asleep to that or wake up,
wake up to those things because it was still playing.
So even those and those weren't like,
those were just nice musical moments in an episode that they took from there to use on that.
(18:55):
Um And just sort of the power of these sort of simple orchestrations that that occurred in one moment of one show can be so,
so powerful with such a powerful moment that they were like,
let's stick it here,
let's use it here.
Um So,
(19:16):
um I think we would be remiss not to talk about,
although it kind of overlaps a little bit,
but I um to talk about the theme itself,
like the theme song of,
of Buffy.
Um Yeah,
absolutely.
Um I,
I don't know if you learned this in your research.
I learned something that was new to me.
(19:38):
Apparently how this all happened was um they had hired a professional composer and Joss Whedon was not happy with what they were coming up with for the theme and it turned out a friend of Nerf Herder who eventually created the theme song,
turned Allison Hannigan onto their first indie release and she became such a fan that she shared it around with like the crew and cast,
(20:03):
including Joss Whedon and he loved it.
So he reached out to them and had them write the theme.
He wanted something like much more punk and,
you know,
basically what we got.
Um And that is how Nerve Hurter wrote the theme song to Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Thank you,
Allison Hannigan.
I know.
Thank you the friend of Nerve Hurter for turning Allison onto it.
(20:25):
I think that's so cool.
Yeah.
Um,
it's such a um and it got,
and even the theme song goes through some changes too.
I mean,
they,
um you can hear it in the first,
you know,
in season one.
you know,
it has,
it has a little bit of a grittier theme but I think as it goes on and I think by season three we get sort of the,
(20:46):
the more,
like polished,
I think,
sort of the polished version.
Um,
and there's the one with the scream and the one without the scream in there,
the scream goes away,
I think at one point.
Um.
Oh,
wow.
I never noticed that.
I think so.
Yeah.
Um,
I have to pay attention.
Yeah.
I think it's around season three or season four where that,
(21:07):
that's,
um,
Squire where they're like,
you know.
Um,
yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Um,
I think,
yeah.
You know,
I,
I mean,
we especially grew up with theme songs to TV.
Shows being a big part of the show.
Like,
knowing the Brady Bunch theme,
even though that was before a time,
like,
we watched it and re,
you know,
reruns.
(21:28):
But,
um,
you know,
the,
uh,
like growing pains that was,
had lyrics like,
you know,
the songs to that or the lyrics to that.
Yeah.
Um What was the one with Michael J Fox?
Why can't I think of his show right now?
Family ties,
the Family ties the Golden Girl.
(21:48):
I mean,
it was like,
I mean,
it's particularly comedies but it was prime theme song.
Aging.
And so unfortunately a lot of that has gone away with streaming.
So I love that.
Buffy has such an enduring theme Every time I hear it,
I just want to like head bang and like dance around be in a mosh pit,
(22:09):
like it's so energizing.
It makes me excited to watch the show,
you know,
I'm like,
oh yeah,
let's go.
Yeah,
you,
you know what you're getting into,
I think like you're getting into something like hard and heavy and fun at the same time,
you know.
Um I mean,
even though,
oh,
I'm sorry,
go ahead and a little playful because you've got this band called Nerve,
(22:31):
which is,
you know,
so yeah,
I would agree like this is definitely the time where um where theme songs are going away,
where TV,
theme songs are going away.
I mean,
there are still some,
I mean,
there are a few TV shows that have like iconic theme songs,
(22:52):
like,
you know,
the Law and Order SVU theme song is freaking iconic like,
absolutely.
Yeah.
But yeah,
every like,
yeah,
I that's my superpower is that I can,
you know,
name a TV theme song and I can,
um,
tell you what it,
you know,
I can sing the theme song.
(23:14):
It's a good superpower to have.
Yeah,
it will.
And it's also,
even though it's very,
of its time,
it's also very timeless,
you know,
it doesn't,
it doesn't necessarily feel,
you know,
partly because obviously,
like punk and offshoots of punk music endure.
Um So it's not like punk's gone away and it feels like,
(23:36):
oh,
that was only from like the seventies to the nineties.
Um But yeah,
if I listen to it,
I'm like,
oh,
it definitely evokes that age of like punk and indie music in the nineties.
But at the same time,
I'm like,
it doesn't feel dated.
I'm not like,
oh,
gosh,
that,
that theme song feels so old,
right?
It's not like you're listening to like the theme song from like Dynasty or something like that,
(24:01):
which that's a very,
do you know,
that's like a grandiose sort of like weird um Yeah,
a orchestral thing.
Although that is an iconic theme song.
Um Yeah.
And so,
yeah,
it,
it's,
it's,
it's a great theme song.
I think it,
I mean,
it holds and,
(24:22):
and like you said that we start to get away from,
from theme songs and,
and having that with the,
the advent of streaming.
But also I think just a lot of um you know,
dramas started to,
you know,
just TV,
shows were like,
let's get into the action.
Like we like this feels like an unnecessary,
(24:43):
um,
an unnecessary thing to have to have because now we're just gonna,
like,
run people's names at the bottom of the screen,
you know,
and we're not gonna do the thing where it's like,
oh,
starring.
So and so,
and,
you know,
you need that time to introduce the actors in the show.
(25:04):
Um,
and it becomes less about the actors in the show and more about,
you know,
the show itself,
right?
Yeah,
I mean,
I think that was a combo of like the changing landscape of television and then also TV,
shows getting shorter so they could fit in more commercials or longer commercial breaks.
(25:28):
So it was like,
hey,
if we can cut somewhere,
so we can tell more story,
that's an obvious place to cut so hush where there is nothing but music because there are no vocal and like the importance of that and how that had to fill in um how that fills in the,
in the space and um and how the music conveys the horror um and the comedy of it all,
(25:58):
you know,
the horror,
the comedy,
the drama,
the action,
like it has everything,
I mean,
that that soundtrack has everything and it's so and it is so over scored like it like not over scored in a bad way but just like it is the,
it is the focus of that episode.
(26:18):
Right.
Absolutely.
It,
it's like it takes what silent films did like 100 times up,
right?
Um And you just,
yeah,
it evokes the,
the scariness.
Um and the,
and then the fact that like nobody can physically talk,
(26:40):
it's not like they're doing a silent episode where they've just decided not to do dialogue,
but like that ability is taken away and then you have these incredibly creepy looking creatures.
Um It might actually be one of the particularly when you first see it scariest episodes of Buffy,
I think you could argue.
(27:02):
Um It's definitely is much more in like old school horror style.
Um Yeah,
it's just such a cool episode.
I mean,
and to,
to do that,
I mean,
you've been going,
you've been going along especially like,
and it's,
and it's a brave choice to do an episode like that too because you,
(27:24):
especially by this time in season four,
you're talking about a show who is um touted for its dialogue for its snappy banter and it's witty comebacks and all of this stuff.
And then right in the middle of that,
you just take that all away.
Yeah,
which is exactly what he wanted to do.
That was the whole impetus for the episode and to rely on the strength of your cast and their acting abilities and your and your storytelling,
(27:55):
you as a storyteller to be able to convey this,
um convey these emotions and a lot of stuff happens in that episode too.
You know,
it's Tara and Willow,
it's um,
you know,
it's Xander realizing that he truly loves anya,
it's Riley,
figuring out who Buffy is.
(28:15):
I mean,
so much happens to everybody in that episode.
Um,
you know,
and the episode shows that particularly with these characters,
words can often get in the way they didn't,
sometimes they didn't truly communicate on some of these issues until their ability to do so with words was taken away.
(28:37):
Um,
and they really had to,
uh,
I don't know,
step up and,
and,
or they just,
it was more that they had like,
well,
it was a combination of things like you said,
the,
you know,
Xander had his realization.
Um,
you know,
I think not being able to speak,
(28:58):
probably got Tara over some of her shyness.
Um So she was really forced to reach out to willow and then of course,
you know,
Buffy and Riley couldn't hide me more behind their facades and the truth about what each of them do comes out.
That action speaks louder than words sort of situations.
(29:20):
I mean,
you know,
sort of instinct taking over.
I mean,
especially with Xander and anya like in that,
that moment and,
and even with,
with Tara and Willow,
like them being able to do magic together and,
and like that moment of,
oh this,
we can really do this together.
Um Yeah,
(29:41):
it's such a,
it is,
it is such a great episode.
Um And the score for that is just,
it's stellar.
It's,
I wish I knew more about sort of like some musical Mochis as much as,
or as much or as little as I know about music.
(30:02):
Um,
I'm sure that there is some really wonderful,
um,
there's some clever,
something other story being told and,
uh,
and a lot of these suits and things like that that I would love to know more about.
Yeah,
it would definitely be fun to take some sort of course on the uh scoring composition of Buffy.
(30:29):
If any of the composers of Buffy are listening right now,
that would be great.
We would love to talk to you about what that was like composing these things.
What was the,
the musical motifs and stories you were telling with those notes,
just reach out to us a soundtrack of Buffy,
The Vampire Slayer just as important,
(30:50):
I think as the original score.
Um It's certainly one of the first shows for me that it caught my attention,
you know,
between the fact,
like you said,
they,
they have the Bronze.
So you had bands appearing,
you know,
weekly or every few weeks,
depending on when a scene was shot at the Bronze.
(31:11):
But then a lot of that music was used in key moments um of the series as well.
Yeah.
So,
right.
Um Because the,
the thing that they chose to do,
so you're,
we're in the nineties and we're teen shows,
we've got like 90210,
you know,
music is really,
there's a lot of,
(31:32):
you know,
cultural music references happening.
Um People are using pop songs on TV shows,
but Buffy,
they make the choice not to do that at least very often and to go with more um to go with more of a grungy um sound uh for this,
for this small town.
(31:54):
Um So we get all of these very much like indie punk bands and um things playing the Bronze and doing all that and sort of filling in,
you know,
over the orchestration,
which I think works better,
you know,
because especially when you're,
when you're about to do a transition from some of the orchestration that we have going on and what we're doing with the score,
(32:20):
especially when it comes to um like the fight sequences because most of like a lot of times,
you know,
you wrap the bronze and there's a band plan and it's like du du du du and then a fight breaks out like that going into like du du du du,
I don't want no scrubs feel super weird like that just doesn't seem like a thing that's gonna work.
(32:42):
So like you have to come up with a sound that compliments what you've already created as the score.
And so it,
or you know,
the sound of the show.
Yeah.
And what and what that is?
Well,
I think it's also a bit of synchronicity in that.
(33:02):
Um And I believe I mentioned this in another episode.
Um It may be one that's actually coming up.
So you may not have heard me say this yet.
Um But again,
I believe I remember reading or it may have been in the,
um,
commentaries on the DVD s.
But part of the reason they got the bands that they did is they had very little money to hire bands.
(33:26):
And so they,
you know,
it was,
you,
you could get these indie bands for a lot less.
And then that was also a very predominant aspect of the L A music scene at the time.
So it fit it,
luckily fit the show,
like what was happening in music at the time in L A fit the show.
So it,
it was a great,
(33:46):
um like I said,
synchronicity,
it just all came together and worked really well.
You know,
they may have,
I,
I don't know if they,
this is one thing I've never seen um and written anywhere or heard in anywhere,
but I don't know if they adapted what they were doing to fit that because that was what was available or again,
it just was all like perfectly came together,
(34:09):
write music for the right show at the right time.
Yeah,
I mean,
from the things that I've read,
it seemed like that was like,
like you said,
I mean,
there is sort of this idea like that there was a lot of this indie,
um you know,
indie pop happening in L A.
But I think it was very,
I mean,
I think it was very intentional,
all of that was incredibly intentional um basically from the beginning that they wanted to create this um you know,
(34:38):
create the sound and create this especially beca you know,
especially with a place like the bronze with all of these where everyone is playing,
you know,
what kind of bands are you going to be booking here?
You know,
you're not,
you're not gonna get a whole lot of um big names playing at the Bronze.
(34:59):
That feels again,
that feels like a weird thing to have um to have happen.
So there is something that I found this was from an older article.
Um but just talking about sort of the influence um is that after like,
even after the show was over,
(35:22):
there was a UK pop band,
a pop punk band called The Potentials,
I found out and so,
and everything that they did was about like being a potential slayer or superhero.
Um you know,
and all of that stuff and so they wrote songs about witches and um and vengeance demons on the internet.
(35:47):
Um And it was all like riot girl,
like,
you know,
uh riot girl music.
So I,
again,
I think that like the influence of the music on the show went well beyond,
you know,
continues to inspire people.
Um and groups,
(36:07):
well after the show was over.
Yeah.
Um Oh,
and then I love the fact that nerve hurter is the last band to play at the bronze.
That was awesome.
That was like,
good for you.
Very fitting.
So fitting.
Yeah.
Which actually,
oh,
just saying that reminds me I was going to say the other thing about the bands um used both at the bronze and just,
(36:30):
you know,
the,
the music used in the soundtrack for the show.
What you were speaking to about,
it didn't tie into what was popular at that period of time.
Like,
none of the artists that were in the top,
you know,
40 were going to be on Buffy.
It also spoke to the cool factor of the show and the cult nature of the show.
(36:51):
You know,
because if you were like,
if you really like some of the stuff you were being exposed to,
it was like,
you know,
I'm sure a lot of your friends were not knew,
didn't know of it unless they were also Buffy fans or happened to be like,
way into,
you know,
indie punk music.
Um So it gave you this,
like,
hey,
I'm listening to like some deep cut stuff that not everyone knows about,
(37:13):
you know,
you know,
about these guys.
Right.
Exactly.
Well,
and I,
and I feel like that's where,
and that's kind of where sometimes I've,
I like it and I think it works,
but it is like the one when Michelle Branch comes on,
I think it is kind of the one time that it was like,
oh,
ratings grab.
(37:33):
But it just,
but the song is so good and it worked because I remember that song was everywhere.
That song was.
Like,
everybody knew that song,
that song played once in an hour,
every hour on every station.
Um,
it was in heavy,
heavy rotation.
So for them,
it was a huge get,
(37:53):
you know,
and it was,
you know,
it was upn years.
So I think they were,
they needed something for,
they were also probably looking for,
you know,
a ratings grab in that moment.
I'm glad that it paid off though.
I'm glad that,
like,
it was one of those things where it works because she's so youthful and because that song specifically works so well with everything that they were doing in Tableau Rasa,
(38:20):
like it just,
it really sort of saying goodbye to all these relationships and stuff like that.
Like,
it really worked in that.
Um,
otherwise I feel like it could have been a real big mess for them.
Yeah.
Well,
it's funny,
I remember,
uh,
reading stuff online.
I don't know if it was like,
message boards.
It must have been because it was pre social media,
(38:43):
but some of the fans were kind of bitching about it.
Um,
because I think they did feel like,
oh,
she's too well known.
But the other aspect of it is I remember people were kind of,
and again in like a judgmental snotty way.
Well,
this is how I was reading it and I have no idea who this is.
They would probably have changed their opinion since then as we,
(39:05):
you know,
grow up.
But they were sort of like saying,
oh,
well,
I heard that Josh told Michelle to slow it down and do it more like acoustic,
like,
so that would actually fit,
you know,
which is entirely possible,
but that was definitely done with like a,
oh,
I can't believe,
sort of like tone to the,
to the comments.
(39:25):
Um But you can actually find I'm not saying it's that same version,
but that tone down more acoustic version on her.
I don't know if it was a re release of the album,
but you can certainly find it because it's on the streaming version of the album that I listened to and I do have to say I like that version better.
Um And it just maybe because for me it's tied to that episode.
(39:47):
So I like the la this like the slower,
less full on rock version and I don't remember and quite frankly,
maybe it's because,
because that's maybe that's the version that I always hear in my head when I,
when I think about that song,
but I don't remember the song being that much faster or more like that,
much more robust than it's not,
(40:10):
it's not hugely different.
You're right.
Um I mean,
I'm sure it has,
it's a little bit because she,
I think she just starts off.
I think probably the first part of it is stripped down a little bit and then when she gets it because they bring in the drums and all of that stuff and then at the end of it she gets a little bit more.
It's probably just,
it's like a,
(40:30):
a,
an unplugged session or whatever,
like,
of the song,
you know.
Yeah.
I think it just may feel maybe a little bit sadder.
Yeah,
in that version,
which obviously works.
So,
I mean,
yeah,
it's a sad song.
It is a sad song.
All right,
we discussed in the musical.
I've got a theory.
(40:54):
OK.
Um Where to start?
I don't even know how I,
how do I look?
Ok.
Do you remember your state of mind and like how you watched it?
Like when you watched it,
do you remember that time period when it came out?
(41:17):
So,
what were you?
I blacked out um during the musical.
Um It was an out of body experience for me.
No,
I was,
I remember um I was living with um some friends of mine.
Uh we were doing,
we were doing a tour together and so we lived together,
but we were all watching Buffy and we were very,
(41:38):
very excited about it.
Um And we were in the living room like we had a whole set up,
you know,
we were super um excited.
We had like the spread the snack spread out and ready.
And I just remember,
you know,
just being so,
(42:00):
so excited and being like overly more excited than a grown person should probably be about,
about a television show.
Um and just,
and when,
when she's singing that,
that first song,
um and she's singing her,
I want song and she's like,
you know,
and she goes,
(42:20):
and I just wanna be steak alive.
I lost my ever loving mind.
I went crazy and I was like,
she's a Disney princess,
you know,
and then 25 years later,
she would become one,
(42:40):
right?
Just a complete nut job about the entire thing.
I loved every single moment of it.
I think we were,
I think we were,
I'm sure we did recorded it and probably went back and watched it again,
like immediately after no,
because we had to watch Angel and then we watched Angel and then went back and watched,
(43:04):
um,
and rewatched it again.
Yeah.
How about you?
What was your,
do you remember?
You kind of similar experience?
I was stage managing at the time and there was someone on the crew who I befriended and I found out,
(43:25):
oh,
she's a Buffy fan.
So I actually,
and this was like me living on my own for the first time,
post college I invited over.
And I really think this was like my first guest.
I remember I cooked like a whole meal and none of the food like made sense.
It was just all the things I could cook well.
Like I made mac and cheese and then I made these really delicious um black bean cakes with like a mango salsa doesn't go together,
(43:51):
but like everything was great and then,
you know,
I probably had some additional stuff and,
and drinks and yeah,
it was and so she and her girlfriend came over and it was just the three of us and I was like,
super excited to have a friend who watched Buffy first of all.
So that was like number one.
Um And yeah,
we,
it was sort of the same,
like we were just so hyped up and,
you know,
she was also a theater person.
(44:11):
So that was like,
you know,
we came from a love of like theater,
musical theater.
So that helped and just,
it was just like,
it was better than I expected.
And I remember when it ended thinking this kind of reminds me,
I get a very Sondheim vibe from it.
And then I remember reading an article or an interview with Joss Whedon not long after it came out and that was one of his inspirations and I just felt like so smart getting that vibe.
(44:39):
I felt like I was like,
yes,
I'm on your wavelength.
I get it.
So it's so funny that like,
I,
I also remember thinking once it was over,
like once we just kept thinking this needs to be like,
a staged musical like this needs to be.
Um,
years later.
Um,
(45:01):
some friends of mine did do their own version of it,
like in a little canteen production where they did,
um,
once more with feeling,
which was super cute.
Um,
it works really well as a stage as a stage thing and they do it at,
they,
they used to,
(45:21):
I think they still might do it at Dragon Con.
I know they used to do,
um,
sort of the Rocky horror version of it.
I was lucky enough to go to one of those before the Fox shut it down.
Um,
it was in this awesome,
um,
historic movie theater,
(45:43):
like old school movie theater in Chicago.
And,
like,
I remember so much because I was with a,
uh,
I volunteered with an organization and that day was their big annual fundraiser,
which was a day of service.
Like you went out to schools and did kind of like the way habitat humanity,
(46:04):
but you're not like rebuilding a school,
you're just going in and like repainting or cleaning up things or,
you know,
just kind of helping out schools that were in like lower income neighborhoods.
So they didn't always have the resources they needed anyway.
That's neither here nor there.
But like I was at that all day and then I had,
was going to the,
um,
showing of once more with feeling that night and I was so sick,
(46:29):
but I was like,
I am not missing out.
I did my volunteer thing.
I rallied.
I like came home right away and showered at eight.
Did not let myself like relax at all because I was like,
I am not falling asleep.
This is like my one opportunity you are pushing through and I pushed through and it was so much fun.
It makes me so sad that they can't do those anymore because it was like,
(46:51):
if you've never been to one and you're gonna think you're thinking to yourself,
oh my God,
it must be the most amazing thing to be with so many Buffy fans watching the iconic episode and singing along and people dress up.
It is that and more,
it was everything I had ever hoped it would be.
I it was phenomenal,
phenomenal.
I love it.
(47:12):
I think it's so much fun.
It was so good.
So anyway,
as to the quality of the episode.
Yeah,
it kind of wasn't that good.
I don't know what we have to talk about.
There's nothing to talk about it.
It's just,
I mean,
well,
I think we,
when we've mentioned the episode before,
I think in,
in other episodes of our podcast to reiterate what we've said before is,
(47:36):
you know,
this was not a commonly done thing.
And when it had been done previously,
well,
first off,
there was,
as we mentioned that cop rock show which was terrible and like died almost immediately.
Um I,
I can't remember I had,
there been a musical episode,
I think there had been before but it,
it was maybe one or two.
(47:58):
Yeah.
I don't think there.
Yeah,
there wasn't a whole lot of,
um,
I don't think there was a lot out there.
No,
I mean,
this basically set the precedent,
um,
you know,
the fact that,
like,
Scrubs and,
as you said,
was it Star Trek Discovery?
And even,
(48:19):
um,
even though they used not original songs,
but the Grey's Anatomy one,
like,
none of that probably would have happened without the once more with feeling.
Yeah,
for sure.
Um,
so I'm just doing a quick,
like,
(48:41):
so,
yeah,
when we're looking at,
um,
and look like,
when you look at stuff,
when you saw musicals on TV,
like you were looking at more,
um,
you're looking more at,
uh,
like musical productions being done as,
(49:02):
um,
as,
as something that happens on TV,
but you're not really getting,
um,
you know,
you're not really getting like these episodes,
you're not getting like an episode of a show.
Um,
I mean,
maybe and again,
(49:23):
like,
hm,
you get singing in shows,
like,
if you go back to like the Brady Bunch or the Partridge Family or something like that,
you've got,
you know,
those sort of singing kind of things but,
you know,
post in a Post Buffy world,
everyone does a musical episode now,
(49:43):
like,
it's the thing to do.
Um,
like everyone does it,
um,
you know,
So it just,
it,
it really just sort of set,
set the scale and I just tried to do a quick Google search to see if I could find anything.
Um,
you know,
sort of pre Buffy and nothing that I see is really coming up,
(50:06):
um,
in doing the research for this.
I know I came across like,
I believe it was one or two and I,
I apologize.
I did not make note of it for some reason.
Um But yeah,
I mean,
it was basically Buffy and then whatever came after Buffy,
it definitely set the breast on it.
And I think partly why is,
which is maybe why those previous ones didn't necessarily work.
(50:29):
And I say this not having seen them,
but one of the things that Buffy did really well,
is it tied it to the story?
It advanced the story.
It wasn't like a one off like,
oh,
we're gonna do this wacky thing for ratings,
but it doesn't really matter to the rest of the series.
It's like as we talked about,
somebody had posted on one of the Facebook groups that they skipped the episode because they don't like musicals and everyone was yelling at them.
(50:55):
You have to go back and watch it.
It is so critical to what happens in that in season six.
Like,
even if you don't like a musical,
you cannot miss this episode.
It is not a one off.
It is so integral to everything that happens in season six.
Well,
and it's one of those things that if you actually skip that episode.
Yeah,
like,
(51:16):
or you could watch that episode and figure out everything that's happening in the show solely based on just watching that one episode,
I think too,
because of the success of that.
And because you see how that works so well.
Um,
we get other series,
like we get like musical series,
like My Crazy ex-girlfriend,
(51:36):
which is a great series.
Um That's a musical series.
Um There was Galahad,
oh,
I forgot about that.
I did watch that one.
You know,
and so the idea that a television show could be a musical does work.
(51:57):
I love that the cast was up for it.
Um And that everyone participated as themselves,
even if they weren't a strong singer.
Yeah,
for sure.
You know,
and I know like Allison Hannigan has been quoted as saying,
like she singing is not her thing.
So she kind of pulled back and then afterwards we like,
(52:18):
damn it,
I wish I'd actually,
like,
just gotten over my fear and part,
you know,
had,
had a song or a duet or whatever it was,
which I get as me,
like,
I love to sing,
but that is not my strong suit either.
Uh I,
I mean,
I get that like,
it's one of those things,
I don't know,
maybe just as a non singer,
it resonates more but it just feels like one of the most terrifying things to put yourself out there for when you can't because people are so judgy about it.
(52:47):
Yeah.
I mean,
it's true.
I think that's,
um,
and people are very judgmental about,
about it.
And so,
um,
you know,
but then when you look at what Alison did,
did on dancing with the stars and see how,
like,
amazing she did and like how many people she moved by,
you know,
overcoming that fear.
(53:08):
Um It's,
it's really great the,
you know,
and it's,
you know,
because they're,
I just like,
in some of my research on this,
I just think it's interesting too,
like the musical background of um of the artist,
you know,
of the actors in the show,
you know,
(53:28):
Oz has some um you know,
has some musical background but then you've got like,
I mean,
Giles who was in Rocky Horror and,
you know,
and all the times that he and James,
you know,
with his band and that's the other thing too is like all the times that Giles sang,
we didn't even talk like,
you know,
in terms of that,
like,
and his um too bad,
(53:50):
they couldn't have him do it more often.
Yeah,
because um I mean,
that would have been a great midlife crisis in season four for him to like,
have more gigs right where Giles is just playing the Bronze.
It's acoustic night on the,
at the Bronze Open mic night at the bronze and there's just child just playing away.
(54:12):
Um And then of course,
Danny Strong goes on to um to produce and Core Empire,
which is this whole hip hop theme soap opera again,
which works like it's a,
it's a drama that has this musical,
you know,
element into it.
(54:33):
So,
you know,
it really kind of um kind of worked in,
in that way.
So I think that once more,
I mean,
we've talked about once more of a feeling so much before I feel like um but I think these,
these little extra bits are um are kind of key.
(54:55):
Yeah.
Ok.
So here comes the question,
favorite song.
It's the,
it's the duet between um Giles and,
and Tara.
Tara.
That was mine.
Yeah,
it's my favorite.
I think we've talked about this offline.
Maybe that's what it is.
(55:16):
Yeah,
I know that they like the overlay of the music,
their voices,
it's gorgeous and it's so emotional.
Like I get everything that they're feeling in that moment.
That song lives rent free in my head.
Like,
like I am constantly.
Yeah,
(55:36):
I like so much.
I remember after that I went and bought um his album Music For Elevators um that he did because,
because Amber Benson was on it,
she did some background vocals on that.
Um It was pretty good.
It wasn't ok.
It wasn't necessarily my exactly what I wanted,
(56:00):
but it was still good.
I enjoyed it.
Um OK,
so as we wrap up.
I've got my trivia.
Oh OK.
The thing I was super excited to tell you about.
I really hope you don't know because I want to like,
be able to tell you,
be the one to tell you.
All right.
So one we've already discussed and,
and you know,
but one of the cool connections between,
(56:21):
one of the cool many connections between Buffy and the movie Bring it on is that the score was done by Chris Beck who was doing Buffy at the time as well.
So that was cool.
OK,
here's my big one.
So I was re looking up who did the vocals for Jonathan when he sang that beautiful song at the Bronze during superstar,
(56:46):
I wanted to like confirm it was who I thought it was and I was correct.
But then I this is where I discovered all this new information about that person that blew my mind.
So do you know who it was that did the vocals?
Because it was not um it wasn't Danny.
Danny strong singing.
No,
(57:07):
correct.
They brought in a vocal double.
I do not know who it is.
It was Brad Kane.
Do you know who Brad Kane is?
I don't know who Brad Kane is.
Brad Kane is probably most well known and this is what I knew him from as having done the vocals on the,
on Aladdin,
the original Disney animated Aladdin.
(57:27):
So like,
you know,
they had different um act,
they had actors to do the speaking role and then they had brought in two singers to do the singing role.
And Brad Kane did Aladdin.
He was Aladdin's uh,
song double or whatever you call it.
Um Here's where my mind was blown.
Did you know that Brad Kane played Tucker Wells?
(57:52):
Oh,
I had no idea that he also played Tucker Wells.
So,
Tucker and the,
the one from,
um,
from the pro,
he's Andrew's brother and he's the one that released the Hellhound is,
is the vocal double.
(58:13):
Correct?
For Jonathan.
And wait,
here comes the next part.
Guess who?
He is married to Sarah Thompson A K A Eve from Angel.
What?
Right.
Who was in cruel intentions too?
With Amy Adams.
(58:35):
It is degrees of Buffy circle,
one degree of Buffy,
the whole like him playing soccer and him being married to Sarah Thompson blew my mind when I was reading his like info and it said married to Sarah Thompson.
I was like,
that name is awfully familiar and I was like,
I think it's Eve but let's also,
(58:56):
let's face it like a pretty common name.
So I like,
you know,
I further Googled and I was like,
sure enough it is that Sarah Thompson,
that's why I was like,
mind blown.
So that is my like,
facts of the podcast.
Ok.
So that's a good one.
So the,
so the person who's singing the song that's,
(59:18):
oh,
it's off a new album.
And superstar is the guy who releases the hell hounds in the prom,
who is married to the Sassy uh administrative assistant from the senior partners from w from heart and see the liaison,
(59:39):
the phone to the,
to the senior partners.
And he sang all of Aladdin songs in the original Disney animated film.
Yes.
And I think who has a beautiful voice like that actually is one thing I was really bummed They didn't do on any of the soundtracks is release him singing that song.
(01:00:00):
I wish there was a way,
a way you could get that song.
If you know of a way to get that song,
please send us an email and let us know because I would love to find out like if it's uh available somewhere that I did not know about,
that was worth the wait.
That was definitely,
I like,
really wanted to tell you the other day and I was like,
(01:00:21):
no,
no,
I'm gonna save it for the episode.
Save it for the podcast.
That was good.
That was good.
I did not know that.
I did not know that at all.
That's very cool.
I love that.
Oh,
my goodness.
All right.
Well,
thanks everyone so much for listening.
We hope you enjoyed this episode of a girl,
(01:00:41):
a guy in a Buffy podcast.
Yes.
And if you like what you heard,
please like and review us and leave us a little message and tell us what you think.
Um And you know,
follow us on Facebook and Instagram at a Buffy podcast.
You can email us at a Buffy podcast at gmail.com.
(01:01:05):
All right.
So thanks so much and we will see you next time for our Oh,
it's,
it's coming up.
We're coming up on the end of the season here.
Ok,
thanks so much.
All right,
we'll see you all next time.
Bye bye.
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