In this riveting episode, we feature an insightful interview with Harvard-educated author Bracha Goetz, renowned for her contributions to children's literature and her remarkable story of triumph over food addiction. Goetz invites us into her transformative journey, underlining the importance of nurturing positivity, self-worth, and mindfulness in children and the powerful impact of her writings on readers around the globe.
Displaying an exceptional knack for simplifying complex matters, Goetz unveils the dark undercurrents of eating disorders, addiction, and personal growth, while stressing the significance of acknowledging children as unique souls on an intriguing journey, rather than mere physical entities. She further explores societal pressures and their contribution towards unhealthy habits and addictions.
Goetz introduces the 'Pleasure Ladder,' a potent tool underpinned by ancient wisdom, during the course of the enlightening exchange. The concept represents the five soul stages and their corresponding pleasures, serving as a stark reminder of our inherent capability to incorporate enduring pleasure into our lives.
The episode proceeds to navigate through the profound aspects of joy, creativity, satisfaction, and spiritual connections. Exploring the concept of transcendence, this part of the dialogue urges listeners to overcome their limitations and continuously evolve while preserving a profound connection with the world around them. Here, we delve into the treasures of creativity and its power to evoke a sense of fulfillment. We further talk about finding pleasure in workdays through simple acts like incorporating music into work routines.
The episode closes with a discussion about sustainable joy through the practice of gratitude, addressing addictions from a unique perspective. The conversation invokes a sense of appreciation for life's simple pleasures, encouraging listeners to open their hearts to the life-altering power of gratitude and celebrate their tiny victories on their journey towards lasting joy and fulfillment.
Our enlightening journey awaits your presence at www.goetzbookshop.com. Join us now and embark on your pursuit of lasting pleasure through the transformative power of gratitude!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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(00:00):
Music.
(00:12):
Today, we are joined by Braca Goetz, a Harvard-educated author of 41 children's
books, who also did a candid memoir for adults about her journey to joy and
how she overcame a food addiction.
Thank you so much for joining. I think it's more important than ever to share
the kind of behind the scenes and the real struggles of overcoming food addiction.
(00:34):
I know I've had my own experience with that, and I know it's really difficult,
especially in today's society.
So if you can kind of get us started with telling us a little bit about yourself,
maybe a little bit about your books and about your background and kind of how
your personal journey has kind of led into maybe creating those books. Okay, wonderful.
(00:55):
So I'm the author of 42 books.
I say that all these books, they're unusual in that they help children's souls to shine.
That's what they do. And then just one book for adults.
And that is my really candid memoir about how I developed food addictions and how I healed from them.
(01:25):
And it's not a typical book either, because I didn't really write the book.
I compiled it from like the highlights of my diaries and then what I called
my journal as I got older and plus letters that I wrote.
And I filled in the missing pieces so that you actually, it's like a documentary.
(01:49):
A person goes through me, goes with along with me, like developing,
watching how the development happens of the food addictions and then experiencing
the healing along with me.
Because because actually through writing the book, that's when I get the clarity
(02:09):
about how I was able to heal.
Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for for sharing that with us.
And I know, especially when it comes to disordered eating, I feel like there
are just so many messages out there to kids when they're young.
And I just, it's so important, especially to have the messaging from your books,
especially when kids are young, to be able to help combat that as they get older.
(02:34):
And so I really love that you shared that with us.
Can you share maybe some of the challenges that you may have faced while overcoming
food addictions and how did you navigate through them?
Yes. Oh, I also want to explain that.
The reason I write children's books is what you were saying.
(02:54):
I want to help children from the beginning of life to understand what the purpose
of life is, what they're doing here, and give them happiness skills from the beginning of life.
Because this is what I was missing, and that's what I was searching for.
Or once I finally got those things, those tools to understand how to navigate
(03:18):
life, that's when I could finally heal from the addiction.
So it's all connected, like why I want to write the books to help young children,
to explain to them really how to choose wisely in life.
And to explain to them that we're not just physical beings, we're also souls.
(03:43):
That's the invisible part of us, but it's our essence.
So that's what I'm explaining. And then I'm explaining that hunger that we feel
that isn't satisfied, that's our soul that's genuinely hungry.
So, that's why when we finish eating, we can still be hungry,
(04:07):
but it's not a physical hunger.
When we finish a good meal, we're still hungry.
It's because we're searching for lasting pleasure in life. What pleasure really lasts?
And that's what I'm loving to share.
And if we can learn that at the beginning of life, then we can lead much more joyful lives.
(04:30):
Lives. Oh, I love that. That is just so powerful. And it's interesting you mentioned
that because I've heard something similar before.
I think I was like kind of in a, not a weight loss program, but kind of like a whole, like a journey.
So it included kind of positive affirmations and also eating kind of more intuitively
and kind of being more body positive as we kind of work towards that journey
(04:54):
of just being, of being healthy.
And I think I remember one of
the things that kind of came up is that when we're thinking about hunger,
is that maybe we're, you know, to try to be more intuitive to kind of in touch
with ourselves and think about how we're feeling.
Maybe it's not that we're really that hungry, but maybe we're just needing some connection.
(05:17):
Maybe we're needing a hug or maybe we're needing some personal time.
And so I really love that you mentioned that because that kind of brought me
back and made me kind of rethink that because our our emotions are so connected.
And I know a lot of folks are struggling, you know, depression and.
When they're maybe struggling with binge eating or something like that,
(05:39):
it inherently might be coming from something else that might be going on in
their life that they're not getting.
And so the intuition is kind of telling them to kind of self-soothe with food.
And so I really love that you mentioned that.
Yes, you explained that beautifully. Exactly. Exactly.
I suffered from like excessive dieting, fluctuating with the binge eating,
(06:05):
which makes so much sense.
I mean, how long can a person restrict themselves?
That's not the way we want to live. So the way we want to live is to pour in the joy.
We need more joy in our life, not less.
So that's why when we really understand this,
(06:28):
then we are able to live more joyfully and overcome the all types of addictions
because we we come to understand what brings lasting pleasure in life.
Like the reason we keep stuffing our faces is because the food is pleasurable.
It brings immediate pleasure.
I mean, so there's like drugs, alcohol, gambling, whatever the addiction is,
(06:53):
it brings immediate gratification, immediate pleasure.
And if we want, what we really want is lasting pleasure.
So if we want the pleasure to keep lasting, why not just keep stuffing our faces?
And then every, since we only experience that pleasure for the brief few moments
that the food is in our, experiencing our taste buds,
(07:16):
you know, for those few seconds, why not just keep eating then?
And then the pleasure will keep on.
But the problem is like all those things.
It's kind of a slow death. It's some, some of these addictions are faster ways
to go than others, but it's, it's very unhealthy for our bodies to keep doing that.
(07:37):
It's so how, how can we find lasting pleasure?
That's really what I was searching for.
I went searching for it. Like.
That's how I ended up going to Harvard originally, because I was searching for
like, like the wisdom in life, what was missing from my life,
you know, and I was searching for that, the purpose of being here, what are we here to do?
(08:01):
So I started studying really hard. I got in there and while I was there,
I was getting sicker and sicker.
Like, again, I look successful on the outside, but the addictions were getting worse and worse.
And of course, what I was focused on, I was studying eating disorders.
I was making breakthrough research during that time.
(08:24):
And I even wrote this chapter in a book, in a textbook that's still used now
in women's studies across the country.
Because at that time, it was really groundbreaking research.
Research, but I myself was suffering more and more miserably within.
So when I graduated from there, I went on to medical school.
(08:47):
And by then, I mean, the addictions were getting worse than ever.
With addictions, nobody knows how you're suffering because you're doing everything in secret.
And it becomes harder and harder to keep your secrets too.
So it's like you're in a prison. And like you said, addictions is a lack of connection.
(09:11):
The more we have this, we have a lack of connection.
We have disengagement, loneliness, boredom, depression, anxiety.
This becomes our prison.
And what can get us out of the prison, like you were saying, is connection.
And it's finding the lasting pleasures in life. So what I learned finally,
(09:34):
as a young adult, is really ancient mystical wisdom.
This is not coming from my own head.
And it's something called the pleasure ladder. And the pleasure ladder has five rungs on it,
which correspond to our five fingers, because we have the power in our own hands
(09:58):
to bring lasting pleasure into our life.
And we have that reminder right in front of us with our hands at every moment
that we can bring this tremendous amount of pleasure into our lives.
So if you want, I'd love to share with you what the five rungs on the pleasure letter are.
(10:23):
Yes, please do. I love, I'm so, I'm so curious to know now that you mentioned
that. Yeah, please do share it with us.
Okay, great. So I, the lowest, the five levels of pleasure, they correspond
to the five levels of the human soul.
And the lowest part of the soul is the part that's attached to our bodies.
(10:44):
So at this lowest, the lowest level of pleasure, we experience it when we experience
any natural, sensual pleasure that our senses can enjoy.
Because like all the natural food, it was designed for us to experience them with pleasure.
(11:05):
I mean, we could have just needed tasteless pills, and that would be enough
nutrition for us every day. But no, it's meant to be pleasurable.
So there's the natural foods, there's being in nature, there's music, there's being active.
Our bodies are designed to move. There's swimming, yoga, dancing,
(11:30):
gardening, all these natural pleasures.
You know, when people tell us these are things that can uplift you when When
you're depressed, now we can understand why,
because this is how the lowest level of the soul is nourished through all these
pleasures when we experience them with gratitude.
(11:51):
That's the missing piece that I didn't know about.
It's the gratitude that changes everything.
When we experience any of those natural pleasures with mindful gratitude,
it nourishes not only our body, but also our souls at that time.
So that's the first level of pleasure.
(12:15):
The second level is very surprising because it's love.
And we think of love as being dependent on someone else.
Like, how can we bring love into our lives at any moment if nobody's there? That's the thing.
With this, the ancient mystical understanding of love is focusing on the virtues of another.
(12:42):
And we can do that even in prison, even in the prison of addiction or even even
in a in a in the prison of like solitary confinement.
A person could focus on a grandmother that that once did a kindness for them.
And they are instantaneously uplifted, uplifted, spiritually inspired to be
(13:10):
a better person. and just thinking of someone that once did a kindness for them.
And that's how we can bring this warm, emotional feeling into our lives at any moment, this pleasure.
So the lowest level is connecting to another natural thing.
The second level up, we are connecting to another being.
(13:32):
They don't even have to be present, but we are connecting to them spiritually
in gratitude, attitude, focusing on their virtues.
And that brings us a more lasting pleasure. Each one up is more connection and
more pleasure, more lasting pleasure.
So the middle level is doing something meaningful, positive and meaningful in the world.
(13:58):
And I was on another show.
And when I got up to to this level. The host said that he was feeling miserable
and lonely the day before.
And he, he, after he finished two slices of pizza that he was eating by himself,
he was about to plow through the whole rest of the box of pizza.
(14:23):
When knock, knock, there's a door, someone knocks on in his door,
it's his neighbor and his neighbor needs help for two minutes.
After he helps his neighbor, he comes back and he doesn't want the pizza anymore.
He puts the rest in the fridge for the next day. Like what happened?
(14:45):
What changed during that time that he helped his friend, And he helped his neighbor.
Wow. I love that.
Yeah. He filled up being grateful that he could help somebody else.
Right? He felt that connection.
He gave of himself into the world. So that also fills us up.
(15:08):
Instantaneously, in the moment, when we do something meaningful,
giving back to the world with gratitude, that also fills us up.
So now we're up to the next to the last. The second highest level is very interesting.
It's creativity.
(15:30):
It's when we put a unique part of ourselves into to the world,
like anybody could have helped his neighbor.
But it's when we do something that's uniquely us and we put it out into the
world, we are on a high that we don't feel like eating or sleeping.
(15:52):
When we're in that zone of creativity and we don't even notice time is passing,
it's It's like such a high to be in that zone of creativity.
And we can't be in it all the time, but when we do spend time there,
it's a tremendous high and it's a tremendous pleasure, a lasting pleasure.
(16:15):
And when we do it with gratitude, then there's no ego involved or very little
because we just feel like the channel of creative energy flowing through us.
And, and then we don't have that feeling like there's no competition.
It's just a joyful experience.
It's, it's, so that's, that's the second highest level and the highest level of all.
(16:41):
Is called transcendence. It's, it's when we, we, we, we recognize that we are
connected to everybody.
Everybody's connected to us and we're all connected to the same source energy.
And it's flowing through all
of us. And like, like the, the vegetation is giving us the oxygen we need.
(17:05):
We're giving carbon dioxide back out to the, to the, all the vegetation that needs it.
And it's also like when we transcend our own limitations and we,
we like make that first crack in a bad habit, we,
we transcend who we are last moment and we become a new person this moment.
(17:28):
Like we, we recognize that we're always evolving and that's like such a high
to do something new that you haven't tried before.
It's like a tremendously, we're
tremendously grateful and the veils of separation between all of us lift.
And it's like what we feel under a starry, starry sky at night when we know
(17:54):
we're a part of a much greater universe.
I remember that joy that stayed with me forever, like out in the country when you're under the stars.
You can bring that back into your life because it's a lasting pleasure of like
tremendous transcendent gratitude.
So all these five levels are available to us. The pleasure ladder is available to us at any moment.
(18:19):
And there's only one price to pay to climb any rung on that pleasure ladder.
And that is gratitude. That is all we need to experience this lasting pleasure.
I'm so glad you mentioned that.
It's just so beautifully worded and it's something that I definitely can relate to.
(18:41):
And it's interesting that you mentioned connecting spiritually.
I actually am part of this group. We like to call ourselves the dream team and
we're across different continents and time zones.
And the whole purpose, I think what comes down to it is that we uplift one another
and we can have another, you know, if there's something positive happening or
(19:02):
maybe someone's going through like different struggles.
We are all there to support and uplift one another.
And it's just, as you mentioned, it's just amazing to be able to connect with
folks on a deeper, more spiritual level.
Even if we can't be present with one another, we're there and connected.
And so it's just an amazing, amazing experience. And it's just,
(19:25):
I know it's had a huge impact
impact on my life, even though maybe I can't always see my friends in person. Yes.
Now we're spiritually connected. We're, we're uplifting and supporting one another.
And I know, I really liked that you mentioned creativity as well,
because I I've always been a creative person if I, if I must say,
because I have always loved painting and drawing. And wow.
(19:49):
As you mentioned that I, I, there is a certain high that you kind of get with
that, especially when you complete the work and you're like, wow, I completed that.
And it's almost kind of like a dopamine hit because it's like, yeah.
Sometimes it's hard for me to admit that, but I'm like, you know what?
Three hours later, I'm like, I did that. And sometimes when I find myself kind
(20:12):
of maybe a little depressed or maybe want to self-soothe with food or something like that,
I try to think, what are some ways that I can kind of get that,
not necessarily dopamine rush, but kind of get that high without doing that.
Or, you know, another thing sometimes I've struggled with is going shopping
and maybe spending more than I should be.
And I'm, you know, kind of releasing my, like, kind of, if I'm in a depressive
(20:37):
moment and like what they call retail therapy.
And so, so sometimes I'm struggling with that.
I'm like, what's another way that I can, you know, know, kind of self-soothe
and kind of release that without, you know, going into debt or things like that. Yes.
And for me, it's been creativity, whether it's, you know, working on this podcast,
(20:59):
which I really love. Yes. Like painting and reading.
I love, of course, creating videos as well. So I try to think about like,
what else like can I do to kind of like, you know, that brings me immense joy.
And usually those are the things that bring me joy. And I also love to write too.
So So I try to kind of separate myself from that and like, okay,
recognize that I have this moment of, okay, I really want to go buy something
(21:23):
like, okay, but I, it's not in my budget right now.
So what else can I do to kind of bring me that joy and gratitude that doesn't
involve my bank account, right?
Beautiful. It's been immensely helpful to kind of recognize those moments.
And I love that you mentioned, you know, like the pizza example,
(21:44):
that's just like such a a profound example because, you know,
I'm a foodie. I love food. I love trying different types of food.
And so I've tried to throughout my life kind of reconcile, like,
is there a way I can enjoy food in a healthy way?
You know, being able to try different things. Yes. So I think for me,
(22:04):
it's what's helped me personally,
is because I've, I've kind of like had moments of, you know,
like, as you mentioned, like, you know, that the food has to have an enjoyable
taste, otherwise we're not going to want to eat.
Right so we have to enjoy it so and unlike
a lot of other addictions I feel like it's even harder because
you know we all have to eat yes and so
(22:26):
like trying to find that balance
and I know for me like what I'll usually try
and do is like maybe during dinner time I'll
kind of explore different cuisines I'm like
and kind of meal plan in a way that I'm like okay I'm really looking
forward to dinner because I'm having like having this and
like having kind of controlling the portion sizes and
(22:48):
and like maybe if I'm at an event maybe
just like sampling just a little bit of everything so that way I'm yeah to have
that enjoyment of trying different cuisines but not overdoing it right exactly
that when we when we go to events it's sometimes the hardest because like if
we're in an uncomfortable situation.
(23:09):
We feel we're not so much in control of the situation, whatever, you know?
So like the good thing to think about is all these other things that bring us pleasure,
like, like even stepping outside for a few minutes to feel the sunshine or focusing
on someone that looks lonely,
(23:30):
like going over and befriending someone, giving, giving of yourself,
you know, think of other ways besides all the food.
Usually it's like excessive food at these events.
So we can think about what else can I do to bring pleasure into my life right now?
There's so many other ways to experience great gratitude.
(23:52):
And we overeat because we feel a scarcity of pleasure pleasure in our life.
Like there's not enough, so I better keep eating because this is giving me pleasure.
But the minute we become aware in our minds that there's truly an abundance
of pleasures available to us every moment, it changes everything.
(24:16):
Then we don't have to consume everything that's being served.
Then we could do so many other things that we know also bring us pleasure.
I think a lot of people really struggle with the scarcity mindset.
I know I got a call on it, especially, of course, during COVID when everyone
was hoarding food and I'm just hoarding that myself.
(24:38):
And I think for me also, if I'm really enjoying something, you know,
but I'm trying to recognize my hunger cues better to be like,
okay, you know, I'm getting kind of full. You know, if I have leftovers, it's okay.
That'll be there tomorrow. maybe it'll be yes and trying
to kind of recognize that and stop myself in that
way and the same thing you know when like going shopping and you know especially
(25:01):
less during covid and like okay that scarcity mindset really does a lot to a
person and especially like now that things have calmed down i think for me like
kind of recognizing like okay if i really need that item i can go back to the store.
And I think that it can be applied to so many things like I'm eating something
(25:23):
or it's like, okay, I can't fish it.
It'll be there later. If I get hungry, it'll be there later.
So I think that it really helps to be able to identify that.
And yeah, because I think the scarcity mindset is really a struggle for so many people.
Exactly. That fear, you know, it's that that lower part of our brain gets activated.
(25:43):
And we're like, I'm so afraid I won't have enough. There's not enough,
not enough pleasure. And I'm afraid.
So I better do that. It's, it's that whole lower part of the brain.
And if we can pause mindfully, then we get the neurons flowing to the prefrontal
cortex, the top part of the brain.
(26:03):
And we can think, is it my body that's hungry or or my soul.
Like, I just had a decent meal, a nutritious meal. Why do I feel like I should keep eating?
Oh, because I want pleasure to continue.
That's what we're here for. We are really here on earth to experience the greatest pleasure possible.
(26:26):
But we think it means just stuffing our faces. No, it means being grateful.
That's how we can experience the greatest pleasure possible.
The more we practice gratitude, the more grateful we become.
We become more grateful people the more that we practice it. It's amazing.
(26:48):
So we actually create more of those neural pathways in our brain so that it
becomes easier and easier to be grateful.
Yeah, absolutely. I, I a hundred percent agree with that.
And kind of, it's, and it's interesting because like, you know,
sometimes throughout like my, my work day at my night,
(27:08):
my nine to five, I find myself like wanting to eat a little bit more,
but I'm like maybe traveling or I'm like immersed in writing something or painting something.
I don't think about food.
And so it's kind of crazy, like how that works because like,
I actually recently just came back from, from Europe and
I the days were just so busy and so packed and
(27:30):
it was just like so much going on like so many things to experience
that I'm not even thinking about that and so it's yes mine works in that way
exactly so like let's say you're sitting there and you're bored a little bit
at work you know you can I don't know if you can play some music in the background
and yeah and And then stretch and dance a little,
(27:53):
move a little, even just those few moments,
then the work becomes more enjoyable again.
You've moved your body, you know, it's like, or while you're working,
how can I do this in a more kind way?
How can I bring happiness to all of that?
You can add in all the different parts and it transforms every moment,
(28:15):
no matter what we're doing.
It's incredible. incredible yeah that that that abundance
mindset the gratitude mindset we can
or even being creative how could i how
could i do more my work more creatively you know it just comes
up in every way you can add in and get on that pleasure ladder at any moment
(28:37):
of the day if it with the awareness with the awareness of it yeah yeah i it's
interesting you mentioned to that because on my way to work and at my desk,
sometimes like, as you mentioned, listening to music, it makes a huge difference.
Sometimes I'll be listening to podcasts and it'll engage my mind in a different way.
(28:58):
And I know for me, especially when I'm working on something creatively.
Something about listening to music or
you know sometimes your favorite songs it just kind of gives you
that boost and like especially like it's in
the morning i'm on my way to work i'm tired i'm trying to get ready for the
day i'm usually rushing out the door and so like just even in that 20 minutes
(29:20):
that i'm listening to music like it really sets the tone for yes today and so
by the time i get to work i'm excited and i'm animated i really need to go and
so yeah i I love that you mentioned that.
Exactly. And lingering in the pleasure of it, that's when we can experience
that gratitude, like savoring it.
(29:41):
Wow, this is such a joy to hear this music and to move my body a little bit.
It's, we spend, we're not used to lingering in joy.
And the more we do, oh my gosh, again, it just gets easier and easier to do it.
One of the other things I learned is like not preparing your next fork full
(30:06):
or spoonful of food until you've like fully chewed what's in your mouth.
Well, that was so hard for me when I started practicing it and I saw that I
was always putting in the next thing before I had to really slow down.
And then when I do that, you can actually focus on enjoying what's already in
(30:29):
your mouth before putting in the next thing.
And that extends to your whole life, because then you start appreciating what you already have.
And you're not trying to take the next bite out of life already.
You know, it's it's it becomes like a metaphor for for living.
Yes, yes. It's so wonderful.
(30:51):
So I think through overcoming these addictions, first of all,
I think that people that have addictions are usually very sensitive souls.
They're people whose souls are like right out there.
They're aware of them. They're aware of the emptiness and they're trying desperately
(31:11):
to fill it. But external things don't fill that hole because we're much more than physical beings.
And we have that spiritual hole on purpose because we got to nourish it with gratitude.
So this is the way to really, really have a joyful life.
(31:33):
Yeah, I, I a hundred percent agree, especially when you're struggling with addiction.
And I think a lot of people on some level might be aware that they're struggling
with it, but it's like this vicious cycle.
And each time, like when you, as you mentioned, like you need that connection
and, and, and you have a need that you need to fulfill,
(31:54):
it's, you're really torn and it's just, I think it's really hard for,
especially a lot of our listeners might be struggling with this is that it might be really hard to stop.
Maybe there's like, I don't know, depending on, you know, if there's something
that's difficult going on in your life and maybe that's like the one thing that's,
you know, keeping you going.
I think it would be a struggle for a lot of folks.
(32:17):
Yes. The secret is identifying what brings you more pleasure than eating.
Like on that Netflix show, My 600-lb Life.
Everybody, they all say the same thing. Food is the only thing bringing me pleasure. That's it.
The prison has gotten that narrow. The walls are that narrow.
(32:39):
I remember being in that prison.
So to get out of it, you have to, to overcome a habit, you need a greater and
more lasting pleasure to sub in.
That lasting pleasure is gratitude.
Practicing that is what helps us to break out of where we're stuck with our addictions.
(33:00):
It feels silly at first, but you start with the smallest thing.
I love to give the example of an orange. An orange is,
is, first of all, the fruit, they're green. They're green before they're ready for us.
They're camouflaged in with the leaves so they can become ready.
And then when they become bright and beautiful, they're beautiful to look at, vivid colors.
(33:24):
And then they smell beautiful. All our senses are involved.
And then they're individually packaged. We take off the peel and the sweet juiciness
is preserved in there for months for us to enjoy.
And then we enjoy it. And what we're left with are the seeds.
(33:46):
And the seeds, they can become infinite more trees and infinite more oranges
if they go back into the ground as they were meant to be.
So you see that like in a little seed, in a little orange, there is so much
wisdom. And there's so much loving kindness packed in there for each of us.
(34:09):
And when we really experience just an orange, we can experience just an orange
alone with so much gratitude.
So we all have so much to be grateful for. So many illnesses we don't have.
All the parts of our body that are working right this moment.
We all have an endless amount of things to be grateful for. And we have a saying,
(34:36):
an ancient saying, who is rich?
Those who are grateful for what they have.
That is so true. And it's interesting you mentioned when we slow down and truly
appreciate, especially something that's like what we're eating.
It's funny. I always give my husband a bad time. He's a slow eater,
but he has going, you know, because I'm a majorly fast eater.
(34:59):
Yeah. I've noticed when I've really slowed down to enjoy something because I
truly believe that no one should deprive themselves of any foods that they really love.
Yeah. For me, like sometimes it's like, Like if I'm craving like a cookie once
in a while, I'll have like maybe one or two.
And then I really just kind of take that time as I'm eating it to kind of appreciate
(35:22):
and enjoy those flavors.
Beautiful. And kind of get that experience. And I find that once I have that,
I don't need to go back for four.
And I think a lot of people really struggle with that.
They think they need to deprive themselves of it to have success.
And I definitely don't think anyone should have to be able to do that.
(35:43):
As you mentioned, just be able to slow down and enjoy it.
And I find that it, that really helps with satisfying that craving.
Beautiful. Pour in the joy. Exactly. Exactly.
Then we won't need any longer. The whole container of ice cream,
the whole box of chocolate chip cookies, the whole bag of potato chips.
(36:05):
That's how I used to live.
So I totally relate to it.
And a lot of the junk was designed that way to just keep it designed to be addictive.
So the more we can eat the healthy things that were designed out of loving kindness, the better.
(36:25):
But whatever we're having to
experience it with gratitude. And it's a tremendous secret to happiness.
Yeah. And kind of thinking a little bit about that, is there any words of maybe
encouragement or advice that you might have for listeners who might just be
(36:45):
getting started in their own journey to joy?
It's like the seeds.
All you have to do is plant one tiny seed. Be grateful for one thing right now. Just be grateful.
Then you've practiced it. That's it. You have planted a seed.
(37:06):
That seed becomes a tree and it brings fruit forever and ever.
Each moment of gratitude is a moment you're not spending being miserable.
So just be grateful for any moment of gratitude.
And when you're not, okay, say, all right, I wasn't, but I can be grateful the
(37:27):
next moment. It's always available.
100%. And it's interesting you mentioned that because I kind of would like to
liken that to if anyone's getting started on maybe a mindful eating or even a fitness journey.
I know a lot of times people will want to go from like one to a hundred.
It's just those small steps when we start any new practice, starting small,
(37:49):
because that's a little bit more doable and attainable because otherwise if
you're just trying to go in full force and you're like, okay,
I can't do this and you're getting frustrated.
And I think that's really difficult for a lot of folks. But yeah,
100%, I think small and simple steps when beginning like any new mindful practice is key.
For sure. And celebrate that small step.
(38:10):
Just enjoy it. Don't even worry about the next one. Just be so happy.
You know, I used to, I tell people, if you had 10 cookies, okay,
be grateful you didn't have 50.
You had 50, be grateful you didn't have 250.
Exactly. You can always be grateful for something.
(38:30):
Yes. Well, that's so true. And I know for me personally, sometimes I really
have to motivate myself to work out and motivation can be fleeting.
And so I'm like, should I work out today?
Should I not work out today? But what I found is that I'm like,
okay, instead of 40 minutes, maybe I can work out for just 20 minutes today.
And that kind of keeps me going because if I miss one one workout I find it
(38:54):
gets next day and the next day it gets really harder.
And then suddenly you realize, okay, I just totally fell off track. I'm frustrated.
And so I'm like, okay, I could do 10 to 20 minutes today and it helps with that consistency.
Exactly. And do what you enjoy. There's so many different ways to work out,
do the things that you love the most.
(39:15):
It's just, and then it's like such a pleasure.
Yeah. And when you're just beginning and you haven't been exercising,
exercising oh my goodness just just move your neck around just move your head
around just move your fingers and your hands everything feels good be grateful for that yeah.
Yeah. I love that you mentioned that because I know like, and especially like
(39:37):
friends and family, everyone has such a different way and different types of
workouts and maybe bring them joy.
I, I have friends who aren't really gym people. I have friends who are more
into like biking or going to walks or going hiking.
And I know my husband's not really a gym person and I've kind of fluctuated
in between the two, but I found like having that variety, trying different things
(39:59):
kind kind of keeps me going, keeps things interesting.
And so I think it depends on the person, but I feel like it's so important to
recognize that there's like never like a one size.
Yeah, exactly.
There really is an abundance of ways to be, to, to experience lasting pleasure in this world.
That's, that was the revelation in my life that changed everything.
(40:23):
Then there there was no longer a need for the addictions because the addictions
come from wanting control, not trusting life.
You don't trust life. You got to just stuff your face.
I mean, that's, that's the way I felt, you know, because it was a scary world.
Then when you begin to trust, I, at that point, the world was very gray.
(40:47):
It lost all of its colors and through living a life of gratitude, the colors return.
And the world becomes vibrant again. Yes. That's what I hope for everybody.
Yeah. And it's funny. I want to share a little experience actually from my mom.
And I know she was actually struggling with the food addiction.
(41:10):
I know she'd be okay with me sharing a little bit of her story,
but she actually loves going on walks daily.
And she was telling me, she's like, when she's out there walking,
like she's embracing all the stimuli, the different smells. And it's a really brings her joy now.
So she's able to kind of appreciate, have this new sense of appreciation that
(41:31):
she didn't have before when she was really struggling with a food addiction.
And so it's just been amazing, informative to kind of to see her do that.
And so, yeah, it's really cool. It's kind of seeing like a transformative journey like that.
And yes, like the little things that you wouldn't expect that would bring you joy. Exactly.
(41:52):
That's it. It's the little things. We'll look back and we'll realize really
the little things were the big things. That's it.
Exactly. Now, I want to thank you so much for your time.
Would you be able to share with our listeners, tell us where we can find you,
where we can buy your books, if you have social media, website,
(42:14):
anything that you'd like to share with us?
I'll also be sure to include that down in the show notes as well.
Oh, the best way is my website where you can find me.
And also there's a place, there's a tab on my website where people can download
a free copy of the pleasure ladder chart where you could put it,
(42:35):
you could download it and put it on your fridge or your cupboard.
And whenever you feel like overeating, you can look at it and remember the abundance
of ways to fill yourself up.
So, yeah, I hope people will visit my website, www.getsbookshop.com.
And gets is spelled that funny way, G-O-E-T-Z.
(42:58):
So, yeah, and definitely download the chart.
Awesome. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining. I really appreciate your
time and our wonderful conversation.
And I can't wait for our listeners to hear it. Such a pleasure.
You resonate so much, Valerie. It was such a pleasure to be here.
Music.
Music.
(00:12):
Today, we are joined by Braca Goetz, a Harvard-educated author of 41 children's
books, who also did a candid memoir for adults about her journey to joy and
how she overcame a food addiction.
Thank you so much for joining. I think it's more important than ever to share
the kind of behind the scenes and the real struggles of overcoming food addiction.
(00:34):
I know I've had my own experience with that, and I know it's really difficult,
especially in today's society.
So if you can kind of get us started with telling us a little bit about yourself,
maybe a little bit about your books and about your background and kind of how
your personal journey has kind of led into maybe creating those books. Okay, wonderful.
(00:55):
So I'm the author of 42 books.
I say that all these books, they're unusual in that they help children's souls to shine.
That's what they do. And then just one book for adults.
And that is my really candid memoir about how I developed food addictions and how I healed from them.
(01:25):
And it's not a typical book either, because I didn't really write the book.
I compiled it from like the highlights of my diaries and then what I called
my journal as I got older and plus letters that I wrote.
And I filled in the missing pieces so that you actually, it's like a documentary.
(01:49):
A person goes through me, goes with along with me, like developing,
watching how the development happens of the food addictions and then experiencing
the healing along with me.
Because because actually through writing the book, that's when I get the clarity
(02:09):
about how I was able to heal.
Yeah, I love that. Thank you so much for for sharing that with us.
And I know, especially when it comes to disordered eating, I feel like there
are just so many messages out there to kids when they're young.
And I just, it's so important, especially to have the messaging from your books,
especially when kids are young, to be able to help combat that as they get older.
(02:34):
And so I really love that you shared that with us.
Can you share maybe some of the challenges that you may have faced while overcoming
food addictions and how did you navigate through them?
Yes. Oh, I also want to explain that.
The reason I write children's books is what you were saying.
(02:54):
I want to help children from the beginning of life to understand what the purpose
of life is, what they're doing here, and give them happiness skills from the beginning of life.
Because this is what I was missing, and that's what I was searching for.
Or once I finally got those things, those tools to understand how to navigate
(03:18):
life, that's when I could finally heal from the addiction.
So it's all connected, like why I want to write the books to help young children,
to explain to them really how to choose wisely in life.
And to explain to them that we're not just physical beings, we're also souls.
(03:43):
That's the invisible part of us, but it's our essence.
So that's what I'm explaining. And then I'm explaining that hunger that we feel
that isn't satisfied, that's our soul that's genuinely hungry.
So, that's why when we finish eating, we can still be hungry,
(04:07):
but it's not a physical hunger.
When we finish a good meal, we're still hungry.
It's because we're searching for lasting pleasure in life. What pleasure really lasts?
And that's what I'm loving to share.
And if we can learn that at the beginning of life, then we can lead much more joyful lives.
(04:30):
Lives. Oh, I love that. That is just so powerful. And it's interesting you mentioned
that because I've heard something similar before.
I think I was like kind of in a, not a weight loss program, but kind of like a whole, like a journey.
So it included kind of positive affirmations and also eating kind of more intuitively
and kind of being more body positive as we kind of work towards that journey
(04:54):
of just being, of being healthy.
And I think I remember one of
the things that kind of came up is that when we're thinking about hunger,
is that maybe we're, you know, to try to be more intuitive to kind of in touch
with ourselves and think about how we're feeling.
Maybe it's not that we're really that hungry, but maybe we're just needing some connection.
(05:17):
Maybe we're needing a hug or maybe we're needing some personal time.
And so I really love that you mentioned that because that kind of brought me
back and made me kind of rethink that because our our emotions are so connected.
And I know a lot of folks are struggling, you know, depression and.
When they're maybe struggling with binge eating or something like that,
(05:39):
it inherently might be coming from something else that might be going on in
their life that they're not getting.
And so the intuition is kind of telling them to kind of self-soothe with food.
And so I really love that you mentioned that.
Yes, you explained that beautifully. Exactly. Exactly.
I suffered from like excessive dieting, fluctuating with the binge eating,
(06:05):
which makes so much sense.
I mean, how long can a person restrict themselves?
That's not the way we want to live. So the way we want to live is to pour in the joy.
We need more joy in our life, not less.
So that's why when we really understand this,
(06:28):
then we are able to live more joyfully and overcome the all types of addictions
because we we come to understand what brings lasting pleasure in life.
Like the reason we keep stuffing our faces is because the food is pleasurable.
It brings immediate pleasure.
I mean, so there's like drugs, alcohol, gambling, whatever the addiction is,
(06:53):
it brings immediate gratification, immediate pleasure.
And if we want, what we really want is lasting pleasure.
So if we want the pleasure to keep lasting, why not just keep stuffing our faces?
And then every, since we only experience that pleasure for the brief few moments
that the food is in our, experiencing our taste buds,
(07:16):
you know, for those few seconds, why not just keep eating then?
And then the pleasure will keep on.
But the problem is like all those things.
It's kind of a slow death. It's some, some of these addictions are faster ways
to go than others, but it's, it's very unhealthy for our bodies to keep doing that.
(07:37):
It's so how, how can we find lasting pleasure?
That's really what I was searching for.
I went searching for it. Like.
That's how I ended up going to Harvard originally, because I was searching for
like, like the wisdom in life, what was missing from my life,
you know, and I was searching for that, the purpose of being here, what are we here to do?
(08:01):
So I started studying really hard. I got in there and while I was there,
I was getting sicker and sicker.
Like, again, I look successful on the outside, but the addictions were getting worse and worse.
And of course, what I was focused on, I was studying eating disorders.
I was making breakthrough research during that time.
(08:24):
And I even wrote this chapter in a book, in a textbook that's still used now
in women's studies across the country.
Because at that time, it was really groundbreaking research.
Research, but I myself was suffering more and more miserably within.
So when I graduated from there, I went on to medical school.
(08:47):
And by then, I mean, the addictions were getting worse than ever.
With addictions, nobody knows how you're suffering because you're doing everything in secret.
And it becomes harder and harder to keep your secrets too.
So it's like you're in a prison. And like you said, addictions is a lack of connection.
(09:11):
The more we have this, we have a lack of connection.
We have disengagement, loneliness, boredom, depression, anxiety.
This becomes our prison.
And what can get us out of the prison, like you were saying, is connection.
And it's finding the lasting pleasures in life. So what I learned finally,
(09:34):
as a young adult, is really ancient mystical wisdom.
This is not coming from my own head.
And it's something called the pleasure ladder. And the pleasure ladder has five rungs on it,
which correspond to our five fingers, because we have the power in our own hands
(09:58):
to bring lasting pleasure into our life.
And we have that reminder right in front of us with our hands at every moment
that we can bring this tremendous amount of pleasure into our lives.
So if you want, I'd love to share with you what the five rungs on the pleasure letter are.
(10:23):
Yes, please do. I love, I'm so, I'm so curious to know now that you mentioned
that. Yeah, please do share it with us.
Okay, great. So I, the lowest, the five levels of pleasure, they correspond
to the five levels of the human soul.
And the lowest part of the soul is the part that's attached to our bodies.
(10:44):
So at this lowest, the lowest level of pleasure, we experience it when we experience
any natural, sensual pleasure that our senses can enjoy.
Because like all the natural food, it was designed for us to experience them with pleasure.
(11:05):
I mean, we could have just needed tasteless pills, and that would be enough
nutrition for us every day. But no, it's meant to be pleasurable.
So there's the natural foods, there's being in nature, there's music, there's being active.
Our bodies are designed to move. There's swimming, yoga, dancing,
(11:30):
gardening, all these natural pleasures.
You know, when people tell us these are things that can uplift you when When
you're depressed, now we can understand why,
because this is how the lowest level of the soul is nourished through all these
pleasures when we experience them with gratitude.
(11:51):
That's the missing piece that I didn't know about.
It's the gratitude that changes everything.
When we experience any of those natural pleasures with mindful gratitude,
it nourishes not only our body, but also our souls at that time.
So that's the first level of pleasure.
(12:15):
The second level is very surprising because it's love.
And we think of love as being dependent on someone else.
Like, how can we bring love into our lives at any moment if nobody's there? That's the thing.
With this, the ancient mystical understanding of love is focusing on the virtues of another.
(12:42):
And we can do that even in prison, even in the prison of addiction or even even
in a in a in the prison of like solitary confinement.
A person could focus on a grandmother that that once did a kindness for them.
And they are instantaneously uplifted, uplifted, spiritually inspired to be
(13:10):
a better person. and just thinking of someone that once did a kindness for them.
And that's how we can bring this warm, emotional feeling into our lives at any moment, this pleasure.
So the lowest level is connecting to another natural thing.
The second level up, we are connecting to another being.
(13:32):
They don't even have to be present, but we are connecting to them spiritually
in gratitude, attitude, focusing on their virtues.
And that brings us a more lasting pleasure. Each one up is more connection and
more pleasure, more lasting pleasure.
So the middle level is doing something meaningful, positive and meaningful in the world.
(13:58):
And I was on another show.
And when I got up to to this level. The host said that he was feeling miserable
and lonely the day before.
And he, he, after he finished two slices of pizza that he was eating by himself,
he was about to plow through the whole rest of the box of pizza.
(14:23):
When knock, knock, there's a door, someone knocks on in his door,
it's his neighbor and his neighbor needs help for two minutes.
After he helps his neighbor, he comes back and he doesn't want the pizza anymore.
He puts the rest in the fridge for the next day. Like what happened?
(14:45):
What changed during that time that he helped his friend, And he helped his neighbor.
Wow. I love that.
Yeah. He filled up being grateful that he could help somebody else.
Right? He felt that connection.
He gave of himself into the world. So that also fills us up.
(15:08):
Instantaneously, in the moment, when we do something meaningful,
giving back to the world with gratitude, that also fills us up.
So now we're up to the next to the last. The second highest level is very interesting.
It's creativity.
(15:30):
It's when we put a unique part of ourselves into to the world,
like anybody could have helped his neighbor.
But it's when we do something that's uniquely us and we put it out into the
world, we are on a high that we don't feel like eating or sleeping.
(15:52):
When we're in that zone of creativity and we don't even notice time is passing,
it's It's like such a high to be in that zone of creativity.
And we can't be in it all the time, but when we do spend time there,
it's a tremendous high and it's a tremendous pleasure, a lasting pleasure.
(16:15):
And when we do it with gratitude, then there's no ego involved or very little
because we just feel like the channel of creative energy flowing through us.
And, and then we don't have that feeling like there's no competition.
It's just a joyful experience.
It's, it's, so that's, that's the second highest level and the highest level of all.
(16:41):
Is called transcendence. It's, it's when we, we, we, we recognize that we are
connected to everybody.
Everybody's connected to us and we're all connected to the same source energy.
And it's flowing through all
of us. And like, like the, the vegetation is giving us the oxygen we need.
(17:05):
We're giving carbon dioxide back out to the, to the, all the vegetation that needs it.
And it's also like when we transcend our own limitations and we,
we like make that first crack in a bad habit, we,
we transcend who we are last moment and we become a new person this moment.
(17:28):
Like we, we recognize that we're always evolving and that's like such a high
to do something new that you haven't tried before.
It's like a tremendously, we're
tremendously grateful and the veils of separation between all of us lift.
And it's like what we feel under a starry, starry sky at night when we know
(17:54):
we're a part of a much greater universe.
I remember that joy that stayed with me forever, like out in the country when you're under the stars.
You can bring that back into your life because it's a lasting pleasure of like
tremendous transcendent gratitude.
So all these five levels are available to us. The pleasure ladder is available to us at any moment.
(18:19):
And there's only one price to pay to climb any rung on that pleasure ladder.
And that is gratitude. That is all we need to experience this lasting pleasure.
I'm so glad you mentioned that.
It's just so beautifully worded and it's something that I definitely can relate to.
(18:41):
And it's interesting that you mentioned connecting spiritually.
I actually am part of this group. We like to call ourselves the dream team and
we're across different continents and time zones.
And the whole purpose, I think what comes down to it is that we uplift one another
and we can have another, you know, if there's something positive happening or
(19:02):
maybe someone's going through like different struggles.
We are all there to support and uplift one another.
And it's just, as you mentioned, it's just amazing to be able to connect with
folks on a deeper, more spiritual level.
Even if we can't be present with one another, we're there and connected.
And so it's just an amazing, amazing experience. And it's just,
(19:25):
I know it's had a huge impact
impact on my life, even though maybe I can't always see my friends in person. Yes.
Now we're spiritually connected. We're, we're uplifting and supporting one another.
And I know, I really liked that you mentioned creativity as well,
because I I've always been a creative person if I, if I must say,
because I have always loved painting and drawing. And wow.
(19:49):
As you mentioned that I, I, there is a certain high that you kind of get with
that, especially when you complete the work and you're like, wow, I completed that.
And it's almost kind of like a dopamine hit because it's like, yeah.
Sometimes it's hard for me to admit that, but I'm like, you know what?
Three hours later, I'm like, I did that. And sometimes when I find myself kind
(20:12):
of maybe a little depressed or maybe want to self-soothe with food or something like that,
I try to think, what are some ways that I can kind of get that,
not necessarily dopamine rush, but kind of get that high without doing that.
Or, you know, another thing sometimes I've struggled with is going shopping
and maybe spending more than I should be.
And I'm, you know, kind of releasing my, like, kind of, if I'm in a depressive
(20:37):
moment and like what they call retail therapy.
And so, so sometimes I'm struggling with that.
I'm like, what's another way that I can, you know, know, kind of self-soothe
and kind of release that without, you know, going into debt or things like that. Yes.
And for me, it's been creativity, whether it's, you know, working on this podcast,
(20:59):
which I really love. Yes. Like painting and reading.
I love, of course, creating videos as well. So I try to think about like,
what else like can I do to kind of like, you know, that brings me immense joy.
And usually those are the things that bring me joy. And I also love to write too.
So So I try to kind of separate myself from that and like, okay,
recognize that I have this moment of, okay, I really want to go buy something
(21:23):
like, okay, but I, it's not in my budget right now.
So what else can I do to kind of bring me that joy and gratitude that doesn't
involve my bank account, right?
Beautiful. It's been immensely helpful to kind of recognize those moments.
And I love that you mentioned, you know, like the pizza example,
(21:44):
that's just like such a a profound example because, you know,
I'm a foodie. I love food. I love trying different types of food.
And so I've tried to throughout my life kind of reconcile, like,
is there a way I can enjoy food in a healthy way?
You know, being able to try different things. Yes. So I think for me,
(22:04):
it's what's helped me personally,
is because I've, I've kind of like had moments of, you know,
like, as you mentioned, like, you know, that the food has to have an enjoyable
taste, otherwise we're not going to want to eat.
Right so we have to enjoy it so and unlike
a lot of other addictions I feel like it's even harder because
you know we all have to eat yes and so
(22:26):
like trying to find that balance
and I know for me like what I'll usually try
and do is like maybe during dinner time I'll
kind of explore different cuisines I'm like
and kind of meal plan in a way that I'm like okay I'm really looking
forward to dinner because I'm having like having this and
like having kind of controlling the portion sizes and
(22:48):
and like maybe if I'm at an event maybe
just like sampling just a little bit of everything so that way I'm yeah to have
that enjoyment of trying different cuisines but not overdoing it right exactly
that when we when we go to events it's sometimes the hardest because like if
we're in an uncomfortable situation.
(23:09):
We feel we're not so much in control of the situation, whatever, you know?
So like the good thing to think about is all these other things that bring us pleasure,
like, like even stepping outside for a few minutes to feel the sunshine or focusing
on someone that looks lonely,
(23:30):
like going over and befriending someone, giving, giving of yourself,
you know, think of other ways besides all the food.
Usually it's like excessive food at these events.
So we can think about what else can I do to bring pleasure into my life right now?
There's so many other ways to experience great gratitude.
(23:52):
And we overeat because we feel a scarcity of pleasure pleasure in our life.
Like there's not enough, so I better keep eating because this is giving me pleasure.
But the minute we become aware in our minds that there's truly an abundance
of pleasures available to us every moment, it changes everything.
(24:16):
Then we don't have to consume everything that's being served.
Then we could do so many other things that we know also bring us pleasure.
I think a lot of people really struggle with the scarcity mindset.
I know I got a call on it, especially, of course, during COVID when everyone
was hoarding food and I'm just hoarding that myself.
(24:38):
And I think for me also, if I'm really enjoying something, you know,
but I'm trying to recognize my hunger cues better to be like,
okay, you know, I'm getting kind of full. You know, if I have leftovers, it's okay.
That'll be there tomorrow. maybe it'll be yes and trying
to kind of recognize that and stop myself in that
way and the same thing you know when like going shopping and you know especially
(25:01):
less during covid and like okay that scarcity mindset really does a lot to a
person and especially like now that things have calmed down i think for me like
kind of recognizing like okay if i really need that item i can go back to the store.
And I think that it can be applied to so many things like I'm eating something
(25:23):
or it's like, okay, I can't fish it.
It'll be there later. If I get hungry, it'll be there later.
So I think that it really helps to be able to identify that.
And yeah, because I think the scarcity mindset is really a struggle for so many people.
Exactly. That fear, you know, it's that that lower part of our brain gets activated.
(25:43):
And we're like, I'm so afraid I won't have enough. There's not enough,
not enough pleasure. And I'm afraid.
So I better do that. It's, it's that whole lower part of the brain.
And if we can pause mindfully, then we get the neurons flowing to the prefrontal
cortex, the top part of the brain.
(26:03):
And we can think, is it my body that's hungry or or my soul.
Like, I just had a decent meal, a nutritious meal. Why do I feel like I should keep eating?
Oh, because I want pleasure to continue.
That's what we're here for. We are really here on earth to experience the greatest pleasure possible.
(26:26):
But we think it means just stuffing our faces. No, it means being grateful.
That's how we can experience the greatest pleasure possible.
The more we practice gratitude, the more grateful we become.
We become more grateful people the more that we practice it. It's amazing.
(26:48):
So we actually create more of those neural pathways in our brain so that it
becomes easier and easier to be grateful.
Yeah, absolutely. I, I a hundred percent agree with that.
And kind of, it's, and it's interesting because like, you know,
sometimes throughout like my, my work day at my night,
(27:08):
my nine to five, I find myself like wanting to eat a little bit more,
but I'm like maybe traveling or I'm like immersed in writing something or painting something.
I don't think about food.
And so it's kind of crazy, like how that works because like,
I actually recently just came back from, from Europe and
I the days were just so busy and so packed and
(27:30):
it was just like so much going on like so many things to experience
that I'm not even thinking about that and so it's yes mine works in that way
exactly so like let's say you're sitting there and you're bored a little bit
at work you know you can I don't know if you can play some music in the background
and yeah and And then stretch and dance a little,
(27:53):
move a little, even just those few moments,
then the work becomes more enjoyable again.
You've moved your body, you know, it's like, or while you're working,
how can I do this in a more kind way?
How can I bring happiness to all of that?
You can add in all the different parts and it transforms every moment,
(28:15):
no matter what we're doing.
It's incredible. incredible yeah that that that abundance
mindset the gratitude mindset we can
or even being creative how could i how
could i do more my work more creatively you know it just comes
up in every way you can add in and get on that pleasure ladder at any moment
(28:37):
of the day if it with the awareness with the awareness of it yeah yeah i it's
interesting you mentioned to that because on my way to work and at my desk,
sometimes like, as you mentioned, listening to music, it makes a huge difference.
Sometimes I'll be listening to podcasts and it'll engage my mind in a different way.
(28:58):
And I know for me, especially when I'm working on something creatively.
Something about listening to music or
you know sometimes your favorite songs it just kind of gives you
that boost and like especially like it's in
the morning i'm on my way to work i'm tired i'm trying to get ready for the
day i'm usually rushing out the door and so like just even in that 20 minutes
(29:20):
that i'm listening to music like it really sets the tone for yes today and so
by the time i get to work i'm excited and i'm animated i really need to go and
so yeah i I love that you mentioned that.
Exactly. And lingering in the pleasure of it, that's when we can experience
that gratitude, like savoring it.
(29:41):
Wow, this is such a joy to hear this music and to move my body a little bit.
It's, we spend, we're not used to lingering in joy.
And the more we do, oh my gosh, again, it just gets easier and easier to do it.
One of the other things I learned is like not preparing your next fork full
(30:06):
or spoonful of food until you've like fully chewed what's in your mouth.
Well, that was so hard for me when I started practicing it and I saw that I
was always putting in the next thing before I had to really slow down.
And then when I do that, you can actually focus on enjoying what's already in
(30:29):
your mouth before putting in the next thing.
And that extends to your whole life, because then you start appreciating what you already have.
And you're not trying to take the next bite out of life already.
You know, it's it's it becomes like a metaphor for for living.
Yes, yes. It's so wonderful.
(30:51):
So I think through overcoming these addictions, first of all,
I think that people that have addictions are usually very sensitive souls.
They're people whose souls are like right out there.
They're aware of them. They're aware of the emptiness and they're trying desperately
(31:11):
to fill it. But external things don't fill that hole because we're much more than physical beings.
And we have that spiritual hole on purpose because we got to nourish it with gratitude.
So this is the way to really, really have a joyful life.
(31:33):
Yeah, I, I a hundred percent agree, especially when you're struggling with addiction.
And I think a lot of people on some level might be aware that they're struggling
with it, but it's like this vicious cycle.
And each time, like when you, as you mentioned, like you need that connection
and, and, and you have a need that you need to fulfill,
(31:54):
it's, you're really torn and it's just, I think it's really hard for,
especially a lot of our listeners might be struggling with this is that it might be really hard to stop.
Maybe there's like, I don't know, depending on, you know, if there's something
that's difficult going on in your life and maybe that's like the one thing that's,
you know, keeping you going.
I think it would be a struggle for a lot of folks.
(32:17):
Yes. The secret is identifying what brings you more pleasure than eating.
Like on that Netflix show, My 600-lb Life.
Everybody, they all say the same thing. Food is the only thing bringing me pleasure. That's it.
The prison has gotten that narrow. The walls are that narrow.
(32:39):
I remember being in that prison.
So to get out of it, you have to, to overcome a habit, you need a greater and
more lasting pleasure to sub in.
That lasting pleasure is gratitude.
Practicing that is what helps us to break out of where we're stuck with our addictions.
(33:00):
It feels silly at first, but you start with the smallest thing.
I love to give the example of an orange. An orange is,
is, first of all, the fruit, they're green. They're green before they're ready for us.
They're camouflaged in with the leaves so they can become ready.
And then when they become bright and beautiful, they're beautiful to look at, vivid colors.
(33:24):
And then they smell beautiful. All our senses are involved.
And then they're individually packaged. We take off the peel and the sweet juiciness
is preserved in there for months for us to enjoy.
And then we enjoy it. And what we're left with are the seeds.
(33:46):
And the seeds, they can become infinite more trees and infinite more oranges
if they go back into the ground as they were meant to be.
So you see that like in a little seed, in a little orange, there is so much
wisdom. And there's so much loving kindness packed in there for each of us.
(34:09):
And when we really experience just an orange, we can experience just an orange
alone with so much gratitude.
So we all have so much to be grateful for. So many illnesses we don't have.
All the parts of our body that are working right this moment.
We all have an endless amount of things to be grateful for. And we have a saying,
(34:36):
an ancient saying, who is rich?
Those who are grateful for what they have.
That is so true. And it's interesting you mentioned when we slow down and truly
appreciate, especially something that's like what we're eating.
It's funny. I always give my husband a bad time. He's a slow eater,
but he has going, you know, because I'm a majorly fast eater.
(34:59):
Yeah. I've noticed when I've really slowed down to enjoy something because I
truly believe that no one should deprive themselves of any foods that they really love.
Yeah. For me, like sometimes it's like, Like if I'm craving like a cookie once
in a while, I'll have like maybe one or two.
And then I really just kind of take that time as I'm eating it to kind of appreciate
(35:22):
and enjoy those flavors.
Beautiful. And kind of get that experience. And I find that once I have that,
I don't need to go back for four.
And I think a lot of people really struggle with that.
They think they need to deprive themselves of it to have success.
And I definitely don't think anyone should have to be able to do that.
(35:43):
As you mentioned, just be able to slow down and enjoy it.
And I find that it, that really helps with satisfying that craving.
Beautiful. Pour in the joy. Exactly. Exactly.
Then we won't need any longer. The whole container of ice cream,
the whole box of chocolate chip cookies, the whole bag of potato chips.
(36:05):
That's how I used to live.
So I totally relate to it.
And a lot of the junk was designed that way to just keep it designed to be addictive.
So the more we can eat the healthy things that were designed out of loving kindness, the better.
(36:25):
But whatever we're having to
experience it with gratitude. And it's a tremendous secret to happiness.
Yeah. And kind of thinking a little bit about that, is there any words of maybe
encouragement or advice that you might have for listeners who might just be
(36:45):
getting started in their own journey to joy?
It's like the seeds.
All you have to do is plant one tiny seed. Be grateful for one thing right now. Just be grateful.
Then you've practiced it. That's it. You have planted a seed.
(37:06):
That seed becomes a tree and it brings fruit forever and ever.
Each moment of gratitude is a moment you're not spending being miserable.
So just be grateful for any moment of gratitude.
And when you're not, okay, say, all right, I wasn't, but I can be grateful the
(37:27):
next moment. It's always available.
100%. And it's interesting you mentioned that because I kind of would like to
liken that to if anyone's getting started on maybe a mindful eating or even a fitness journey.
I know a lot of times people will want to go from like one to a hundred.
It's just those small steps when we start any new practice, starting small,
(37:49):
because that's a little bit more doable and attainable because otherwise if
you're just trying to go in full force and you're like, okay,
I can't do this and you're getting frustrated.
And I think that's really difficult for a lot of folks. But yeah,
100%, I think small and simple steps when beginning like any new mindful practice is key.
For sure. And celebrate that small step.
(38:10):
Just enjoy it. Don't even worry about the next one. Just be so happy.
You know, I used to, I tell people, if you had 10 cookies, okay,
be grateful you didn't have 50.
You had 50, be grateful you didn't have 250.
Exactly. You can always be grateful for something.
(38:30):
Yes. Well, that's so true. And I know for me personally, sometimes I really
have to motivate myself to work out and motivation can be fleeting.
And so I'm like, should I work out today?
Should I not work out today? But what I found is that I'm like,
okay, instead of 40 minutes, maybe I can work out for just 20 minutes today.
And that kind of keeps me going because if I miss one one workout I find it
(38:54):
gets next day and the next day it gets really harder.
And then suddenly you realize, okay, I just totally fell off track. I'm frustrated.
And so I'm like, okay, I could do 10 to 20 minutes today and it helps with that consistency.
Exactly. And do what you enjoy. There's so many different ways to work out,
do the things that you love the most.
(39:15):
It's just, and then it's like such a pleasure.
Yeah. And when you're just beginning and you haven't been exercising,
exercising oh my goodness just just move your neck around just move your head
around just move your fingers and your hands everything feels good be grateful for that yeah.
Yeah. I love that you mentioned that because I know like, and especially like
(39:37):
friends and family, everyone has such a different way and different types of
workouts and maybe bring them joy.
I, I have friends who aren't really gym people. I have friends who are more
into like biking or going to walks or going hiking.
And I know my husband's not really a gym person and I've kind of fluctuated
in between the two, but I found like having that variety, trying different things
(39:59):
kind kind of keeps me going, keeps things interesting.
And so I think it depends on the person, but I feel like it's so important to
recognize that there's like never like a one size.
Yeah, exactly.
There really is an abundance of ways to be, to, to experience lasting pleasure in this world.
That's, that was the revelation in my life that changed everything.
(40:23):
Then there there was no longer a need for the addictions because the addictions
come from wanting control, not trusting life.
You don't trust life. You got to just stuff your face.
I mean, that's, that's the way I felt, you know, because it was a scary world.
Then when you begin to trust, I, at that point, the world was very gray.
(40:47):
It lost all of its colors and through living a life of gratitude, the colors return.
And the world becomes vibrant again. Yes. That's what I hope for everybody.
Yeah. And it's funny. I want to share a little experience actually from my mom.
And I know she was actually struggling with the food addiction.
(41:10):
I know she'd be okay with me sharing a little bit of her story,
but she actually loves going on walks daily.
And she was telling me, she's like, when she's out there walking,
like she's embracing all the stimuli, the different smells. And it's a really brings her joy now.
So she's able to kind of appreciate, have this new sense of appreciation that
(41:31):
she didn't have before when she was really struggling with a food addiction.
And so it's just been amazing, informative to kind of to see her do that.
And so, yeah, it's really cool. It's kind of seeing like a transformative journey like that.
And yes, like the little things that you wouldn't expect that would bring you joy. Exactly.
(41:52):
That's it. It's the little things. We'll look back and we'll realize really
the little things were the big things. That's it.
Exactly. Now, I want to thank you so much for your time.
Would you be able to share with our listeners, tell us where we can find you,
where we can buy your books, if you have social media, website,
(42:14):
anything that you'd like to share with us?
I'll also be sure to include that down in the show notes as well.
Oh, the best way is my website where you can find me.
And also there's a place, there's a tab on my website where people can download
a free copy of the pleasure ladder chart where you could put it,
(42:35):
you could download it and put it on your fridge or your cupboard.
And whenever you feel like overeating, you can look at it and remember the abundance
of ways to fill yourself up.
So, yeah, I hope people will visit my website, www.getsbookshop.com.
And gets is spelled that funny way, G-O-E-T-Z.
(42:58):
So, yeah, and definitely download the chart.
Awesome. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for joining. I really appreciate your
time and our wonderful conversation.
And I can't wait for our listeners to hear it. Such a pleasure.
You resonate so much, Valerie. It was such a pleasure to be here.
Music.
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