August 30, 2024 • 42 mins
Welcome back to A Slice of Empathy podcast! In today's unique episode, we dive into a fun and informative conversation with relationship and sexuality expert Courtney Boyer, author of Not Tonight, Honey, Why Women Don't Actually Want Sex and What We Can Do About It. Courtney shares her journey from growing up in a sex-negative evangelical Christian environment to becoming a beacon of knowledge and change in the field of sexuality and relationships.
We explore the complexities of purity culture, the impact of mental load on women's sexual desire, and the importance of open communication with partners. Courtney offers practical advice on improving intimacy, understanding one's own body, and creating a pleasure practice that goes beyond the bedroom.
For parents, Courtney provides insights on how to approach the topic of sexuality with children in a medically accurate, age-appropriate, and value-based manner. She also discusses the critical role of mental health in sexual desire and relationships, offering strategies to manage stress and improve overall connection.
Join us for an enlightening episode filled with valuable tips and a fresh perspective on enhancing your relationships and sexual health. Don't miss out on Courtney's upcoming projects, including her second book and a women's small group trip to Paris!
Social Media: @courtneyboyercoaching
Email: courtneyboyercoaching@gmail.com
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:04):
Welcome back to a slice of empathy podcast. Today's episode is going to be a
little bit different and I'm so excited for it because it is fun and informative.
But today we're going to be speaking with relationship and sexuality expert
Courtney Boyer, who is also the author of Not Tonight,
Honey, Why Women Don't Actually Want Sex and What We Can Do About It,
(00:24):
which will offer a wealth of knowledge that ensures our listeners will both
be entertained and enlightened.
If you could share a little bit about your journey, what inspired you to become
a relationship and sexuality expert?
Yeah, absolutely. So gosh, I grew up in the evangelical Christian church.
And so that was not a very sex positive environment.
(00:47):
And just found it really fascinating how as a woman,
I was just really sent a lot of messages, messages really shrouded
in shame around my body and just this pressure
to not have sex and also this trust distrust among
men and just basically that women were these
walking temptations and while also
at the same time this pressure of women needing to perform and provide sexually
(01:12):
in a in marriage and that we have this obligation and this duty and that sex
is going to be great because you saved yourself for marriage and so i went to
a christian school went to a christian college and started to really see that, gosh,
sex is a lot more complicated and a lot more nuanced than what we're being taught.
And so I decided like, man, I want to be a part of this solution and really
(01:35):
change the conversation around sexuality.
And so that's really what got me into this field.
I love that. And you brought up an important point because I've heard so many
different opinions on what's called, as you know, purity culture.
And I myself, I'm not religious or anything, but I actually got married pretty young. I was 19.
(01:56):
A lot of people assume that I was pregnant and I'm like, no, I'm not pregnant.
Because a lot of people will also assume that when you get married young,
it's generally because you're saving yourself for marriage and things He's like,
that wasn't the case for us because we lived together a year before we got married.
And it's interesting because I hear a lot of people say that,
(02:17):
like, a lot of people rush into marriage just to have sex.
And so I've been hearing a lot that for folks, like, if you're just rushing
into marriage just for the sake of having sex, like, just have sex.
Like, don't rush into marriage just to have sex because a lot of times it ends
up falling apart, like, later on as folks, like, go.
(02:38):
Absolutely. What is your current stance on that now?
That's a good question. Yeah. Someone might be considering marriage just so they can have sex.
Would you say someone like, if you are looking to have sex, just have sex?
Or would you like... Yes.
Yeah. I mean, I know that's hard because I look back. I did end up having sex
(02:59):
before marriage. So I did the whole purity ring thing.
And I didn't go to a purity ball, but I signed a pledge.
And I was so steeped in this culture. And I had a panic attack the first time
after I had sex because I felt so guilty. I was
absolutely convinced I was going to hell. I was like, well, now I'm a soiled woman.
And it was with my future husband, but I still felt so shameful and really disconnected
(03:25):
from my body and really disempowered.
And so one of the things... So I have three kids. My two oldest are girls.
And one of the things that I talked to them about is really making sure that
you are emotionally ready before you have sex.
And you're aware of those implications. educations and there is absolutely no
guilt or shame associated with the sex education I give them.
(03:46):
It's really about, it's empowering, it's educating, and it's really equipping
them to feel like, okay, I'm in control of this and it is whatever I want to make it.
It's not about losing my virginity. I hate that term.
So if somebody who does identify as a Christian, I think one,
I would have compassion for them because I've been there.
(04:06):
I totally understand that perspective. I understand wanting to live according
to God's will and wanting to please Him and follow the rules and everything.
And I also realized that we live in vastly different times than when the Bible
was written and when people got married and just the lifespan and everything.
So, I would encourage them to delay for as long as possible because I know that
(04:31):
that's in accordance with Christian beliefs to not engage in sex outside of marriage.
But at the same time, I'm like, it is not the worst thing you could do.
So it would be one of those,
like, I would ask them to question why are they choosing that and what,
like, to really dig on their own, not because their pastor told them,
not because their parents told them, but like, what is your relationship with
(04:54):
Jesus and what's your relationship with the Bible and how do you interpret that
and what does that look like for you?
And I know a lot of evangelicals will probably be like, that is such blasphemy
in terms of what you're telling them.
And that's okay. I'm okay with that. So.
I guess that's my answer. No, I really appreciate that because it's interesting.
(05:14):
I actually come from kind of a Catholic background. Like my family,
like my immediate family isn't really super religious or anything,
but both my grandmothers on my maternal and paternal side were.
So I think there was a lot of very rigid views around like having sex.
And especially when it came to like dating and whatnot, not.
(05:37):
Like, it's like, oh, you don't want to sleep around.
You want to save yourself for that special person.
I mean, there wasn't really a, oh, you need to say, wait until marriage.
But like, there is a lot of stigma, like in my family, especially with the older generations.
I want to say the slut shaming culture. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
And I think, honestly, my personal opinion, like if you are being safe and you're,
(06:01):
you're a grown ass adult, do what you want. You you do you?
100%. Nothing wrong with that.
Totally agree. Yeah. So when we think about your book, I'm really curious about
it, especially the title.
It's called Not White Honey, Why Women Actually Don't Want Sex and What We Can Do About It.
Are there any key moments or experiences that maybe led you to write the book?
(06:24):
Yeah. So I think... I don't even remember what the breaking point or the tipping
point was, but I have spoken to thousands of women throughout the years.
And I can guarantee you that I will get asked at least one of these two questions.
What is wrong with me? And am I broken?
And those two questions, after hearing that over and over for years and years,
(06:47):
I just finally was like, I have to give them a resource so that they can feel
like they are not alone and that they can understand why they feel this way.
It's not their fault. And give them some practical advice on what they can do to help navigate that.
So that was really what spurred the book.
I can't think of like an actual final moment. It was just probably the encouragement
(07:10):
of the people in my life who were like, gosh, you just need to like put this
into word scoring. Yeah.
I love that. And is there any, can you give us maybe a brief overview of your
book and maybe some of its core findings? Because I'm pretty intrigued by it myself.
So I'm probably going to be checking it out as well.
Yeah. So it's broken up into three parts. The first part is like,
why do we have a book on why women don't want sex?
(07:32):
And really looking at where that the historical and cultural messaging come
from, religious messaging, how that impacts our views on sex.
And then moving that into understanding the sex. So the second part is really
understanding our bodies, our sexual arousal.
Basically, everything that we've been taught in the media about women's sexuality
is totally incorrect and also harmful.
(07:56):
And then also the third part is really like, okay, so now what?
Thank you for pointing out the obvious, Courtney. Yep, this is where we struggle.
And then it talks about sexual energy. It talks about communication.
It talks about different modalities, therapeutic modality. I talk about creating
a pleasure practice, which is something that is one of the easiest ways and
(08:16):
really free ways to help to cultivate more pleasure in your life.
And when I say pleasure, I don't mean just sexual pleasure. I mean,
pleasure of all kinds and really just gives people like tools to reconnect with
their bodies and their sexuality.
Yeah. I think that's so important. And it's interesting because I think,
especially as women, and when we think about our partners, like,
(08:38):
and if, let's say, we're not, like, in the mood to have sex for whatever reason,
a lot of times our partners might be thinking,
like, they might think it's about them or you attract them.
And you'll hit where it's really, it may not necessarily be about them.
I might be because, like, I'm extra tired tonight or I'm going through a really stressful situation.
But it's interesting. I've had this, actually, this conversation with my husband
(09:00):
previously as well because it's something I feel like that comes up for a lot
of people, especially I feel like with male partners, especially where they,
oh, like, did I do something wrong?
Or are you attracted to me? There's a lot of this, like, it takes a huge concern
that it's like something that they did when it may not necessarily be the case.
Can you speak on that a little bit?
(09:21):
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, so here's the thing. Communication is a skill.
Communicating about about sex, about desire, like that's an even greater skill.
And a lot of us were just not taught how to do that.
And so instead of having those really, they feel uncomfortable conversations
because we're not used to them, it feels overwhelming.
(09:42):
And so we would rather just kind of sit on it and pretend like it doesn't exist
or it just like, well, I don't want to like make it worse or I don't know where to start.
And so we just kind of keep kicking the can down the road.
And what we don't realize is
that it's really causing these cracks in our relationship and which leads.
An overall erosion of the relationship. And that can lead to a lot of distrust
(10:03):
and disconnection and even resentment.
And so I think that if you find yourself in that situation, it's so,
so important to really think of it like, okay, I was never taught how to sew.
And I really value sewing because I want to make my own clothes.
I think it's cool, whatever.
So I'm going to go out and learn that skill. I'm going to watch YouTube videos. I'm going to read books.
(10:24):
I'm going to hire a sewing teacher, whatever it is. And the same thing can be
applied to communication,
communicating about sex, dealing with past sexual issues, childhood traumas,
all of those things, because those significantly impact our ability to show
up authentically in our relationships.
Relationships and so if we start to see it as i am lacking
a tool or i'm trying to expand my toolbox
(10:46):
so i can be a better partner a better woman a
more fulfilled a more authentic however you want to look
at it then i think that we would really start to
resolve a lot of our own issues in our relationships yeah absolutely and i i'm
actually thinking about when you mentioned the tools because my husband and
i just like both transparency are each other's firsts and i know There could
(11:08):
be stigma around that because a lot of times in the dating world, people would be like,
oh, you know, maybe they want to date someone who's sexually experienced.
And what would you recommend to like maybe someone who is young and maybe neither
partner is really experienced in that area?
Are there any certain like recommendations that you might have for someone who
might be navigating that?
(11:29):
Yeah, I think again, like sex is a skill. And I think we forget that.
And like there are some people that are just naturally good at sex.
They are just like people are naturally good at dancing or basketball or cooking.
There are socially acceptable ways to go about to learning those skills that
sex typically isn't offered.
(11:50):
And so thankfully nowadays, there are a lot of resources.
I think like omg.com, is that one of them? There's different intimate or erotic
educational videos or manuals that are focused.
It's not porn. It's really meant to teach you the mechanics and the skills behind
(12:10):
how to give oral sex or things to think about during intercourse that a lot
of people will look to porn for,
which looking to porn for sex education is like watching NASCAR and learning how to drive.
It is just not a good idea and not helpful at all.
Yeah, no, that makes sense. It's kind of like when you play like a first-person
(12:32):
shooter game and you're trying to learn how to aim the gun. That makes a lot of sense.
And I like how you mentioned that because it's like, even like when,
let's say, when we maybe start our very first job, we have to get that experience
and learn skills somehow.
And so my husband and I, we've been together for... It's been 17 years.
(12:53):
So we've been together for 17 years.
So like it is possible. There's a lot of trial and error, I'll say.
And it takes that time. Like again, like you mentioned, like really learning
what you want and learning yourself to really navigate that.
And I'll say like if someone else is in the same situation or like they have
like very little to no experience that like it's definitely possible.
(13:16):
And I love that you mentioned that. Again, it is, it's a skill.
And I really love that you mentioned that.
Are there any maybe misconceptions about women's sexuality that you might address in your book?
I think it's important to remember that. And one of the things that when you were talking about,
you know, sex being a skill and
like, you know, the fact that you and your husband are each other's first,
(13:39):
it doesn't really matter if he is an incredible lover to thousands of women,
because the reality is, I mean, I'm making assumptions here,
but like that you're in a committed monogamous relationship.
So his one job is just to please you. It doesn't, again, really matter if anybody
else thinks he's a great kisser or there's no like standard per se,
(14:00):
because a lot of those measurements are so subjective and a lot of women's pleasure is subjective.
So like most women don't orgasm just through vaginal penetration.
So a guy just like ramming it in her is not going to result in like an amazing
orgasm for the majority of women.
But that's what we see a lot of times in the media.
So that's a misconception that I do address in the book of what we've been taught
(14:24):
about women's bodies, you know, are essentially a lie.
The fact that women don't respond to arousal typically the same way that most
men do, with that being a disclaimer, there are some women that do become aroused
spontaneously, very quickly.
And there are some men that require what's called, it's not required,
but it's more of a responsive arousal, which is how we see most women respond
(14:48):
bond sexually when they're needing to be stimulated.
So I think that just knowing that it's very subjective and it's very personal
and what one person enjoys and how they maybe feel connected with their partner
can be two different things.
And that can only really be conveyed through intentional communication.
(15:09):
Yeah, absolutely. And I love how you mentioned, again, like we see in the media
where generally the male partner just rams it in and like, Like that's like,
it is so much more than that.
Like, and I, I've heard like that happening for so many different people.
And it's just like, no, like there's like, there's this process that you have to go through.
It's not just like term like wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. You know?
(15:31):
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
There's a process, you know? And so, you know, most of them just like ram it in.
And it's like, I feel like it's very male subjective and like,
especially like for males and when it comes to porn and the media
thinking that like how sex works well it's
just so much more layered than that and especially from the
woman's perspective like we want more than that and I'm glad that I mentioned
(15:55):
that and so when we think about women who might and for example maybe experience
low sexual desire do you have any practical tips or advice you might offer for
women who might be experiencing that?
Yeah. I think it's important for women to really take inventory of where they're
at in their season of life.
So if you have little kids, yeah, you are more than likely going to be freaking
(16:19):
drained and super not interested in sex.
That makes sense. Your hormone levels are probably still out of whack from postpartum.
Maybe you just finished breastfeeding.
So really looking at the season of life that you're in and how that's impacting
your stress, Looking at your coping skills, your overall life satisfaction,
looking at different, again, hormonal levels.
(16:41):
Are you on birth control pills?
Are you on antidepressants? Are you getting enough protein in your diet? Is your iron low?
What are your estrogen levels? All of those factors are external-ish,
but also helpful to keep in mind when you are considering the whole picture.
But then what most people think of too
(17:01):
is okay so i just i'm never in the mood
and a lot of that is two things one i
see women just take on the mental load of the household so especially if their
moms and the biggest desire killer is responsibility so the more responsibility
a woman has the harder it is for her to turn off and tune out and just sit back
(17:23):
relax and enjoy their ride.
So if she feels alone in this overwhelm of all of these things that she has
to do, she is to really pull back.
And a lot of times there's resentment there. And resentment is a big fat wedge
that's going to prevent you from connecting with your partner,
but also from you connecting with yourself.
(17:44):
So that's the first big thing. The second thing that I see a lot of times with
women who have low desire is that they are incredibly disconnected from themselves.
So what ends up happening is that when we are little girls, we self-abandon
so that we can be accepted and loved.
And so in that process of self-abandoning, we say yes to things we don't want
(18:09):
to, and we are happy, and we're nice, and we're put together,
and we're not allowed to be unpleasant, and we have all of these expectations.
And through those years, we continue to bury our desires, and
we continue to ignore intuition intuition and so
then when we are in a long-term relationship we become
so disconnected from who we are and what
(18:30):
we want that it's really hard for us to be in our bodies and be open to receiving
pleasure oh my gosh that's so true and that makes a lot of sense especially
we're juggling so many things like women especially tend to be chronic people
pleasers yeah mentioning like we we put ourselves last in a way.
And I'm glad that because it really does make sense. It causes that kind of
(18:54):
disconnect between yourself.
So I really appreciate that you mentioned that. Is there a way that couples
can maybe improve their communication when it comes to their sexual desires and needs?
Yeah. So what I would do is talk about how you can incorporate more pleasure
outside of the bedroom first.
So that can feel really overwhelming to start. I don't know what I like. I don't know what I want.
(19:21):
That's really hard of even voicing that concern because a lot of women just
feel very powerless and voiceless in their relationships.
And so what I would encourage you to do is to tell your partner like,
Hey, I'm really trying to do a better job of prioritizing myself and connecting with myself.
So not even using the word pleasure, although I can't imagine... Well, I can't actually.
(19:44):
Most partners would be very supportive of like, Yeah, my partner is trying to
increase the pleasure in her life because she wants to be happier and be more
interested in sex. Yes, please. That sounds great.
Unfortunately, not all partners are huge cheerleaders of that.
That's a whole other topic.
But I think that when we start to do things that really bring us joy and happiness
(20:05):
outside of the bedroom, that we're more open to moving that and translating
that into being open to pleasure inside the bedroom.
Oh my gosh, that makes so much sense. And when we go back to thinking about
how much, especially as women, overcompensating and we have a lot on our plate Typically,
sometimes even prioritizing some of those basic needs can be difficult,
(20:29):
but it's just so it's crucial to really have that sense of self before we can think about another.
And I really appreciate that you mentioned that and moving into the next thing
and kind of thinking about the things that bring us pleasure.
What kind of advice might you offer someone who might be like,
(20:52):
for example, a lot of times, like our partner, kind of going back to thinking
like the shoving it in, right?
Thank you, ma'am, type thing. And sometimes I think as women,
like it can be hard for our partner to understand that it's not as simple,
you know, like depending on the person, of course, we may not get aroused as
easily as a man might, for example.
(21:13):
And what we're needing or expecting when it comes to intimacy is so important
because a lot of times for a guy who's like, okay, like I want to have sex and
it takes like longer for, I think for women, like there has to be that buildup.
And I think we're working with our partner on, let's say like even having a
date night or having that emotional connection first where I think a lot of
(21:35):
people might require like to, in order to feel like they want to be intimate.
Absolutely. Yeah. And being able to know that you are worth the time and effort of that buildup.
And a lot of women, sadly, don't believe that they are.
It's just easier if I just knock it out for 5 to 10 minutes and like,
(21:56):
okay, then we'll just move on and I'll go back to my crossword puzzle or scrolling
Instagram or going to sleep. Yeah, exactly.
And are there any practical tips or advice you might offer for someone who is
looking to have more of that lead in? Yeah, I think that a lot of men don't
realize the amount of foreplay that requires to really arouse a woman.
(22:17):
And I don't think they realize the amount of mental load that a lot of women carry.
I think if women had less of a mental load, that they would be easier to kind
of like, quote, snap out of it and like transition into more sexy time.
But it requires a lot of unloading and
a lot of men aren't aware
of that and so i think that women need to do a better job of
(22:40):
communicating those needs and being willing
to relinquish that control it really
helps me to relax knowing that i have a clean kitchen okay
great like hey if i know that like all you need for
us to like get it on is for me to clean the kitchen like i'll do
it every fucking night right but but the problem that
we see and well a couple of things is one a lot of times it's deeper
(23:01):
than that is that they're like well there's resentment of
all the years and like all the other areas that i'm carrying
and oh it's so easy for you just to do this and you're only doing it because
you want something but then the other issue i see with women too is that they
don't like how their partner cleans the kitchen or loads the dishes or makes
the lunches and so they don't want to relinquish the control to lessen or lighten
(23:24):
the responsibility so they They can be more sexually available.
And so it becomes this cycle of, no, no, no, you don't do it right.
Nope, I want to do it. I want to be in control. But then that control and that
time prevents them from really letting go and opening up sexually.
Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting you mentioned that because like my husband
and I have had similar discussions before, as I'm sure like it's the case for
(23:46):
many of our guests as well.
But I really enjoy working out at least a few times a week. My husband,
on the other hand, he just does it because he has to.
And it's interesting because he knows like I've told him before,
like, you know, it's really attractive to me when you work out with me.
And that, you know, it turns me on, you know, I really want to work out.
(24:07):
And then when you work out with me, you know, that, that is like something for
me that will like lead to that, to the, like that next intimate step.
And so when we talk about it that way, like, he's a lot more willing to work
out. He's like, yeah, absolutely.
If he knows that sex is going to come after a workout, then it's like,
it's a huge motivator for him. 100%. Yeah.
(24:30):
Is there any advice that you might have for individuals who might be navigating
the modern dating scene in terms of sexuality and intimacy?
Come with that complicated structure of like dating, especially on dating and
dating in today's climate?
Yeah, I would say one to be aware of your attachment style. That will really
(24:51):
impact how you show up and how you interact.
And I think also being aware of your emotional baggage.
And if you have not dealt with that, that will a million percent impact your
ability to form healthy, long lasting relationships.
So those are the two big things. I think another thing is what's your purpose?
Not that dating necessarily has to be intentional or purposeful.
(25:13):
But what I see is that there's people who don't want to take the time to really
take inventory of like where they're at and what they're able to give in their life.
And so like, oh, I'm just like open to whatever. ever.
And the problem with that, it's like going to a restaurant and telling the waiter,
okay, well, I'm open to whatever.
And then the waiter's like, wait, do you want an appetizer? Dessert?
I don't know what to give you.
(25:35):
And so then you just get what you get. And then no wonder you're dissatisfied.
I think that a lot of people are afraid to set intentions and be like,
hey, I am looking for just something really casual right now.
And this is all I can offer you. Or I'm looking for a life partner.
I am really willing to settle down and invest in somebody because we're afraid of rejection.
(25:55):
And so if we just kind of take whatever we can get, then we're not going to be disappointed.
But that is such a big fat lie because we end up getting disappointed and being
in these really unhealthy cycles and really settling for things that we shouldn't be.
Absolutely. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. And I think when we think about
our own wants and desires,
(26:16):
that's something that we should really have at the forefront and not, again,
make decisions based on like, okay, we're afraid of being rejected and understanding
what we want and making decision factors based on that line of thinking will
help us get to that ultimate result. old.
And I think a lot of times, again, this is where communication will be ever
(26:37):
so important with the dating phase.
And I think a lot of times, folks, when they hear about, for example,
if they are just looking for something casual, a lot of people will have fun on that.
But honestly, it really is important because setting up the expectations and
being certain is just so important.
So both folks are on the same page.
(26:58):
Right. Yes. If you know that you're entering in... Like, hey,
I am telling you, I can only give you this amount of time, this amount of commitment.
Or if somebody else is telling you that, and this is where I really see the
problems is that somebody else is telling me, hey, Courtney,
I can only give you X, Y, or Z.
And I'm thinking, oh, but once they get to know me or once like I'll change
(27:20):
them or they'll all be so amazing and like they'll change. No, no, no.
I'm sorry, sweetie. They are not changing for nobody. It is not happening.
Believe people when they tell you what
they can give you believe them when they show you who
they are and that is really a lot easier said
than done oh absolutely it's such a hard decision
(27:42):
and not even in just like when it comes to like sexual expectations but this
can translate over to like many different things within relationships okay like
this is what they mean rather than you're setting yourself up for disappointment
so i want to pivot a little bit i think approaching Approaching the topic of
sexuality with children,
I think, can depend on a variety of different factors, again,
(28:03):
like religious beliefs.
But how might parents approach the topic of sexuality with their children?
Because I have seen it a few different ways.
I've seen people where they're very, to the point where, almost borderline inappropriate.
And then some parents are just afraid to say anything at all.
(28:24):
Like, like, yeah, that's the issue entirely.
So like, what is like the happy medium of parents approaching sexuality,
or the concept of sexuality with their children?
Yeah. So I'm a big fan of medically accurate, age-appropriate,
value-based sex education.
And so what that means is that we are using medically accurate terms.
(28:45):
So we're calling it a vulva and a clitoris and a penis and a test,
all of the things that we are not using shame or fear in any of our education or how we approach it.
So if you have your own baggage when it comes to sex, it will absolutely come
out when it comes to talking to your kids about sex.
So that is something that you really, if you want to be a good,
(29:08):
responsible parent in this, go see a therapist,
go work out, do a workbook, contact me, whatever you need to do,
because that is something that will absolutely be translated to your kiddos.
And then also age appropriate.
So when they are three or two or one, like, yeah, they should absolutely know
what the names of their body parts are.
They're usually not too inquisitive about how the baby gets inside the mom until
(29:33):
they're about three to five-ish. And so from there, again, you can just use very biological terms.
The values really don't come in unless we're talking about like gender roles
and those kind of things until a little bit later.
But as long as you keep it factually accurate, and then if you want to sprinkle
(29:55):
in your values. So like, oh, how did the baby get into the mommy's,
you know, belly or whatever?
Well, God, I hate that. It should be like in her uterus. Like,
let's use the correct terms.
And it's like, oh, well, the sperm fertilized the egg and then the egg grew
into a fetus. And then that became, you know, whatever.
Okay, well, how did the sperm get it? You let the kid lead you because they
(30:16):
will lead you most of the time.
If they don't and they start to get older, you can introduce that.
I'm like, oh, well, the sperm comes out of the penis.
And if you believe in sex only in marriage, so when two people get married and
they love each other, they have sex.
And this is what happens, that kind of thing. So you can incorporate your values
(30:40):
into that, either whether it's saying you need to be married or in love or just
two random people at a bar, however you wanna do it.
I always start the inside and work out. And a lot of times people will work outside going in.
So people will start with the two people wherever they're at.
And really, you can start with the sperm and the egg and work out from there.
(31:02):
I love that. And that honestly can be better said, honestly,
because it's interesting.
My grandparents were pretty conservative in this mindset. And I'm thinking about
my maternal grandmother specifically.
I think for my mom, especially, it was hard because...
And I say this because my grandfather on my maternal side was very,
(31:26):
I want to say, much more progressive to to the point where, like,
maybe, like, you don't want to tell a child, like, that much or expose a child that much.
And, like, so they were, like, on two different wavelengths. Yeah.
My mom, and then, which made it hard for, like, for me and my brother.
And then my dad had, like, his own way.
And so it's interesting, like, my brother would actually overhear my dad had,
(31:52):
like, my parents are divorced, but, like, he would overhear my dad, like, having sex.
And so, So like there, my dad didn't really think it was a big deal,
but like, so is there like a way for couples to maintain healthy,
satisfying sexual relationships and still kind of like have a line of boundaries
like with their children?
Are there any tips that you might have so like parents can do that like while
(32:14):
they're also raising children?
Yeah, I think one of the things that's important and this is something I would
communicate to my kids pretty early on is when your dad and I have the door
shut, it's really important that you respect our time together.
Yeah. And so I don't need to tell you what I'm doing behind the door.
I don't owe you an explanation.
You can try to contact me by like knocking or whatever. That's fine.
(32:39):
But like I, we intentionally have it closed because this is our time to connect.
And when you're in a long-term relationship, a committed relationship,
it's really important that that couple has time to connect together.
And so we didn't, I didn't talk about sex at all. if you are hearing your parents
like that's a different issue,
and depending on like the house setup and stuff
(33:00):
but I don't think there's anything wrong with telling kids that
like yeah I want time with just your dad that's something that I'm entitled
to and that I love and I enjoy and that's important in a relationship and like
you don't need me like and you're not you're gonna have to figure it out yourself
and that's okay yeah that makes a lot of sense and I think it's such a good idea especially to have.
(33:22):
Those boundaries with children as well, because I think that's something that
they can also take to like later in life as well.
Not even necessarily when it comes to like intimacy and sex,
but like in a variety of different ways, learning that there is going to be
like boundaries, like with their parents as well. And so I love that you mentioned that.
Yeah. And just even like having intentional time away.
So sometimes like I'll be in my room with my door shut and my kids know to knock
(33:45):
instead of just like walking in because sometimes I just need a break and I
just need to like, hey, I just need a timeout.
I just need to process. Maybe I need to make a phone call.
Maybe I just want to take a nap. The fact that I just need to connect with myself
and you don't need to have access to me, they know that that closed door is
significant and means something.
(34:06):
And so in order to access me, you need to ask for my permission.
And that is one beautiful way to teach consent.
Oh, absolutely. No, I love that. How does mental health impact sexual desire and relationships?
How does it not? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it just, it, it impacts everything.
(34:27):
And if you are in a really low place, like you are not going to have the energy
or feel like you are deserving of sexual fulfillment.
If you are anxious and overwhelmed, like that skyrockets that fight or flight
mode in our nervous system, which spikes cortisol and shuts down our reproductive productive system.
So like there is mental health is just so connected. It reflects and impacts everything.
(34:54):
Yeah, I like that you mentioned that because I think so many different folks
cope in different ways to a variety of different ways.
And I know some folks on one hand say they just suffered maybe a loss and their
form of comfort might be intimacy.
And while on the other hand, there might be someone else who might stray from
(35:15):
it because like, oh my gosh, I'm dealing with this thing. Yeah.
I've seen a lot of times there's a lot of stigma when it comes to folks who are like,
oh my god how could you want to have sex someone just died is a
level of compassion that we want to to make sure that we're keeping in mind
because different folks are coping with like these varieties absolutely yeah
it is and so that might be the way that like they're coping it might seem strange
(35:37):
but that's how like being intimate might be a way for them to kind of cope with that like,
that's something that we don't want to just discount even if it might absolutely absolutely Yeah.
So are there any strategies that folks can use to manage a variety of mental
health issues that might be affecting their sexual and romantic lives?
(35:59):
Yeah, I mean, I would say like definitely be grounded, like find ways where you feel connected.
So, you know, doing grounding, breathing exercises, really connecting with your body,
like box breathing, where you like inhale for four, hold for four,
exhale for four, hold for four, just really trying to calm your nervous system.
(36:21):
That's a really great way to do that. having outlets to allow the stress cycle to complete.
So physical exercise, laughing, crying, painting, gardening,
where you're moving your body, you're allowing that stress to physically dissipate from you.
Those are all things that can really help really lower the cortisol and really
(36:42):
help regulate your nervous system.
And that opens you up to more connection.
Oh, absolutely. And I was interesting. I was actually just talking with a guest
not too long ago know about the importance of connection.
And I think especially with any mental health-related issue that we might be
going through, I think it's so important that we communicate that with our partners.
So nothing can feel more isolating than trying to keep it to ourselves because
(37:06):
I think a deepened connection can also spark that desire for intimacy between
partners rather than like, I guess, suffering in silence, so to speak.
So as a coach, what common challenges do you see seeing your clients regarding
relationships and sexuality?
Are there any common challenges that you might see more often than others?
(37:27):
I think a lot of it is not feeling worthy of pleasure and not feeling worthy
of a good, happy, joy-filled life.
A lot of that ends up manifesting itself in self-sabotage, conflict,
being unboundaried. So a lot of codependency. I would say those are pretty common things.
That makes a lot of sense, especially if we're dealing with a lot of deep-rooted
(37:50):
insecurity, thinking that we may not be worthy of that intimate love one.
So I love that you mentioned that. Are there any steps folks might be able to
take to improve their overall relationship and sexual health?
I mean, it's easy to say, oh, like really looking at where does that belief
come from that I'm not loving and worthy.
I'm a big fan of inner child work. So really connecting with that little girl
(38:14):
or little boy or whoever inside of you.
And really giving them that safe space and allowing that person of you to heal
and accepting that part of you that feels that shadow part that feels unloved and unwanted.
I think that's a really helpful tool to do. A lot of that deeper work though
requires professional help.
Unfortunately, you can't just read a book or listen to a couple of podcasts.
(38:37):
Like it's really about... Like those are helpful and those are great tools. Absolutely.
But really working with a professional is going to get you where you want to go.
That makes a lot of sense. If you could give any piece of advice to our listeners
about enhancing their relationships and sexual health, what might it be?
I would like giving yourself permission to really pursue whatever it is that
(38:59):
you want and really believing that you are worthy and deserving of amazing things.
I love that. That is so true.
And kind of pivoting a little bit, are there any new projects or initiatives
that you're currently working on?
Actually, yes. So I'm currently writing my second book, which will be a memoir,
which I'm really excited about.
And then I'm also working on a women's small group to Paris in late spring, early summer next year.
(39:26):
So I'm really passionate about the power of community, especially women together
and just working through and talking.
And it's like an intentional girls trip. Those are the two big things I'm working on.
I love that. I actually went to Paris a little bit earlier this year.
It was an amazing experience. So that is so much fun.
(39:47):
Is there anything else that you'd like to share with our audience about relationships and sexuality?
I think what we don't realize is that we really settle and accept the love that we deserve.
And so if we are in places where we are really unhappy, a lot of it is like
it's mirrors. Our relationships are mirrors of how we see ourselves.
(40:11):
And so we really start to take ownership of that, of like, man,
yeah, I really value myself so little and that's why I'm tolerating this kind
of behavior from my mom or from my husband or whatever.
That can be a huge game changer. And it can be a really empowering,
but it can also be really overwhelming too.
And I know we mentioned a little bit earlier talking about the self-sabotage.
(40:33):
And I think that's so common when we feel like we're not deserving and we could
be with a wonderful partner.
And if we don't think we're worthy, we might take even unconscious steps to
sabotage because we inherently have this belief that we're not worthy.
And we might do things to our partner or say things to our partner that maybe
we don't even mean and intend to sabotage because we are stuck with this belief.
(40:58):
So I really appreciate that you mentioned that because that's so important to
having a more fulfilling relationship,
a more fulfilling partnership is having that internal belief that yes,
we are worthy of intimacy and a loving relationship, a loving partnership.
And so I love that you mentioned that. Before we kind of close out,
can you tell us how our listeners can connect with you and learn more about
(41:22):
your upcoming work at all the projects that you're working on?
Yeah, sure. So I'm on social media. at Courtney Boyer Coaching.
And then my website is CourtneyBoyerCoaching.com. And if I love hearing from
listeners, DM me, send me an email.
It's CourtneyBoyerCoaching at gmail.com, Courtney with a C.
So yeah, that's all the places to find me.
(41:44):
So I'll make sure I connect with you as well once we get off this call.
I've loved our conversation.
It was a pleasure having you on here and I'm so excited for this episode.
This was such a fun one that I've done. Um, so I love their conversations.
So thank you so much for joining me.
Thank you so much for having me. I loved it too. Thank you. Take care. Bye.
(42:06):
Music.
Welcome back to a slice of empathy podcast. Today's episode is going to be a
little bit different and I'm so excited for it because it is fun and informative.
But today we're going to be speaking with relationship and sexuality expert
Courtney Boyer, who is also the author of Not Tonight,
Honey, Why Women Don't Actually Want Sex and What We Can Do About It,
(00:24):
which will offer a wealth of knowledge that ensures our listeners will both
be entertained and enlightened.
If you could share a little bit about your journey, what inspired you to become
a relationship and sexuality expert?
Yeah, absolutely. So gosh, I grew up in the evangelical Christian church.
And so that was not a very sex positive environment.
(00:47):
And just found it really fascinating how as a woman,
I was just really sent a lot of messages, messages really shrouded
in shame around my body and just this pressure
to not have sex and also this trust distrust among
men and just basically that women were these
walking temptations and while also
at the same time this pressure of women needing to perform and provide sexually
(01:12):
in a in marriage and that we have this obligation and this duty and that sex
is going to be great because you saved yourself for marriage and so i went to
a christian school went to a christian college and started to really see that, gosh,
sex is a lot more complicated and a lot more nuanced than what we're being taught.
And so I decided like, man, I want to be a part of this solution and really
(01:35):
change the conversation around sexuality.
And so that's really what got me into this field.
I love that. And you brought up an important point because I've heard so many
different opinions on what's called, as you know, purity culture.
And I myself, I'm not religious or anything, but I actually got married pretty young. I was 19.
(01:56):
A lot of people assume that I was pregnant and I'm like, no, I'm not pregnant.
Because a lot of people will also assume that when you get married young,
it's generally because you're saving yourself for marriage and things He's like,
that wasn't the case for us because we lived together a year before we got married.
And it's interesting because I hear a lot of people say that,
(02:17):
like, a lot of people rush into marriage just to have sex.
And so I've been hearing a lot that for folks, like, if you're just rushing
into marriage just for the sake of having sex, like, just have sex.
Like, don't rush into marriage just to have sex because a lot of times it ends
up falling apart, like, later on as folks, like, go.
(02:38):
Absolutely. What is your current stance on that now?
That's a good question. Yeah. Someone might be considering marriage just so they can have sex.
Would you say someone like, if you are looking to have sex, just have sex?
Or would you like... Yes.
Yeah. I mean, I know that's hard because I look back. I did end up having sex
(02:59):
before marriage. So I did the whole purity ring thing.
And I didn't go to a purity ball, but I signed a pledge.
And I was so steeped in this culture. And I had a panic attack the first time
after I had sex because I felt so guilty. I was
absolutely convinced I was going to hell. I was like, well, now I'm a soiled woman.
And it was with my future husband, but I still felt so shameful and really disconnected
(03:25):
from my body and really disempowered.
And so one of the things... So I have three kids. My two oldest are girls.
And one of the things that I talked to them about is really making sure that
you are emotionally ready before you have sex.
And you're aware of those implications. educations and there is absolutely no
guilt or shame associated with the sex education I give them.
(03:46):
It's really about, it's empowering, it's educating, and it's really equipping
them to feel like, okay, I'm in control of this and it is whatever I want to make it.
It's not about losing my virginity. I hate that term.
So if somebody who does identify as a Christian, I think one,
I would have compassion for them because I've been there.
(04:06):
I totally understand that perspective. I understand wanting to live according
to God's will and wanting to please Him and follow the rules and everything.
And I also realized that we live in vastly different times than when the Bible
was written and when people got married and just the lifespan and everything.
So, I would encourage them to delay for as long as possible because I know that
(04:31):
that's in accordance with Christian beliefs to not engage in sex outside of marriage.
But at the same time, I'm like, it is not the worst thing you could do.
So it would be one of those,
like, I would ask them to question why are they choosing that and what,
like, to really dig on their own, not because their pastor told them,
not because their parents told them, but like, what is your relationship with
(04:54):
Jesus and what's your relationship with the Bible and how do you interpret that
and what does that look like for you?
And I know a lot of evangelicals will probably be like, that is such blasphemy
in terms of what you're telling them.
And that's okay. I'm okay with that. So.
I guess that's my answer. No, I really appreciate that because it's interesting.
(05:14):
I actually come from kind of a Catholic background. Like my family,
like my immediate family isn't really super religious or anything,
but both my grandmothers on my maternal and paternal side were.
So I think there was a lot of very rigid views around like having sex.
And especially when it came to like dating and whatnot, not.
(05:37):
Like, it's like, oh, you don't want to sleep around.
You want to save yourself for that special person.
I mean, there wasn't really a, oh, you need to say, wait until marriage.
But like, there is a lot of stigma, like in my family, especially with the older generations.
I want to say the slut shaming culture. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah.
And I think, honestly, my personal opinion, like if you are being safe and you're,
(06:01):
you're a grown ass adult, do what you want. You you do you?
100%. Nothing wrong with that.
Totally agree. Yeah. So when we think about your book, I'm really curious about
it, especially the title.
It's called Not White Honey, Why Women Actually Don't Want Sex and What We Can Do About It.
Are there any key moments or experiences that maybe led you to write the book?
(06:24):
Yeah. So I think... I don't even remember what the breaking point or the tipping
point was, but I have spoken to thousands of women throughout the years.
And I can guarantee you that I will get asked at least one of these two questions.
What is wrong with me? And am I broken?
And those two questions, after hearing that over and over for years and years,
(06:47):
I just finally was like, I have to give them a resource so that they can feel
like they are not alone and that they can understand why they feel this way.
It's not their fault. And give them some practical advice on what they can do to help navigate that.
So that was really what spurred the book.
I can't think of like an actual final moment. It was just probably the encouragement
(07:10):
of the people in my life who were like, gosh, you just need to like put this
into word scoring. Yeah.
I love that. And is there any, can you give us maybe a brief overview of your
book and maybe some of its core findings? Because I'm pretty intrigued by it myself.
So I'm probably going to be checking it out as well.
Yeah. So it's broken up into three parts. The first part is like,
why do we have a book on why women don't want sex?
(07:32):
And really looking at where that the historical and cultural messaging come
from, religious messaging, how that impacts our views on sex.
And then moving that into understanding the sex. So the second part is really
understanding our bodies, our sexual arousal.
Basically, everything that we've been taught in the media about women's sexuality
is totally incorrect and also harmful.
(07:56):
And then also the third part is really like, okay, so now what?
Thank you for pointing out the obvious, Courtney. Yep, this is where we struggle.
And then it talks about sexual energy. It talks about communication.
It talks about different modalities, therapeutic modality. I talk about creating
a pleasure practice, which is something that is one of the easiest ways and
(08:16):
really free ways to help to cultivate more pleasure in your life.
And when I say pleasure, I don't mean just sexual pleasure. I mean,
pleasure of all kinds and really just gives people like tools to reconnect with
their bodies and their sexuality.
Yeah. I think that's so important. And it's interesting because I think,
especially as women, and when we think about our partners, like,
(08:38):
and if, let's say, we're not, like, in the mood to have sex for whatever reason,
a lot of times our partners might be thinking,
like, they might think it's about them or you attract them.
And you'll hit where it's really, it may not necessarily be about them.
I might be because, like, I'm extra tired tonight or I'm going through a really stressful situation.
But it's interesting. I've had this, actually, this conversation with my husband
(09:00):
previously as well because it's something I feel like that comes up for a lot
of people, especially I feel like with male partners, especially where they,
oh, like, did I do something wrong?
Or are you attracted to me? There's a lot of this, like, it takes a huge concern
that it's like something that they did when it may not necessarily be the case.
Can you speak on that a little bit?
(09:21):
Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, so here's the thing. Communication is a skill.
Communicating about about sex, about desire, like that's an even greater skill.
And a lot of us were just not taught how to do that.
And so instead of having those really, they feel uncomfortable conversations
because we're not used to them, it feels overwhelming.
(09:42):
And so we would rather just kind of sit on it and pretend like it doesn't exist
or it just like, well, I don't want to like make it worse or I don't know where to start.
And so we just kind of keep kicking the can down the road.
And what we don't realize is
that it's really causing these cracks in our relationship and which leads.
An overall erosion of the relationship. And that can lead to a lot of distrust
(10:03):
and disconnection and even resentment.
And so I think that if you find yourself in that situation, it's so,
so important to really think of it like, okay, I was never taught how to sew.
And I really value sewing because I want to make my own clothes.
I think it's cool, whatever.
So I'm going to go out and learn that skill. I'm going to watch YouTube videos. I'm going to read books.
(10:24):
I'm going to hire a sewing teacher, whatever it is. And the same thing can be
applied to communication,
communicating about sex, dealing with past sexual issues, childhood traumas,
all of those things, because those significantly impact our ability to show
up authentically in our relationships.
Relationships and so if we start to see it as i am lacking
a tool or i'm trying to expand my toolbox
(10:46):
so i can be a better partner a better woman a
more fulfilled a more authentic however you want to look
at it then i think that we would really start to
resolve a lot of our own issues in our relationships yeah absolutely and i i'm
actually thinking about when you mentioned the tools because my husband and
i just like both transparency are each other's firsts and i know There could
(11:08):
be stigma around that because a lot of times in the dating world, people would be like,
oh, you know, maybe they want to date someone who's sexually experienced.
And what would you recommend to like maybe someone who is young and maybe neither
partner is really experienced in that area?
Are there any certain like recommendations that you might have for someone who
might be navigating that?
(11:29):
Yeah, I think again, like sex is a skill. And I think we forget that.
And like there are some people that are just naturally good at sex.
They are just like people are naturally good at dancing or basketball or cooking.
There are socially acceptable ways to go about to learning those skills that
sex typically isn't offered.
(11:50):
And so thankfully nowadays, there are a lot of resources.
I think like omg.com, is that one of them? There's different intimate or erotic
educational videos or manuals that are focused.
It's not porn. It's really meant to teach you the mechanics and the skills behind
(12:10):
how to give oral sex or things to think about during intercourse that a lot
of people will look to porn for,
which looking to porn for sex education is like watching NASCAR and learning how to drive.
It is just not a good idea and not helpful at all.
Yeah, no, that makes sense. It's kind of like when you play like a first-person
(12:32):
shooter game and you're trying to learn how to aim the gun. That makes a lot of sense.
And I like how you mentioned that because it's like, even like when,
let's say, when we maybe start our very first job, we have to get that experience
and learn skills somehow.
And so my husband and I, we've been together for... It's been 17 years.
(12:53):
So we've been together for 17 years.
So like it is possible. There's a lot of trial and error, I'll say.
And it takes that time. Like again, like you mentioned, like really learning
what you want and learning yourself to really navigate that.
And I'll say like if someone else is in the same situation or like they have
like very little to no experience that like it's definitely possible.
(13:16):
And I love that you mentioned that. Again, it is, it's a skill.
And I really love that you mentioned that.
Are there any maybe misconceptions about women's sexuality that you might address in your book?
I think it's important to remember that. And one of the things that when you were talking about,
you know, sex being a skill and
like, you know, the fact that you and your husband are each other's first,
(13:39):
it doesn't really matter if he is an incredible lover to thousands of women,
because the reality is, I mean, I'm making assumptions here,
but like that you're in a committed monogamous relationship.
So his one job is just to please you. It doesn't, again, really matter if anybody
else thinks he's a great kisser or there's no like standard per se,
(14:00):
because a lot of those measurements are so subjective and a lot of women's pleasure is subjective.
So like most women don't orgasm just through vaginal penetration.
So a guy just like ramming it in her is not going to result in like an amazing
orgasm for the majority of women.
But that's what we see a lot of times in the media.
So that's a misconception that I do address in the book of what we've been taught
(14:24):
about women's bodies, you know, are essentially a lie.
The fact that women don't respond to arousal typically the same way that most
men do, with that being a disclaimer, there are some women that do become aroused
spontaneously, very quickly.
And there are some men that require what's called, it's not required,
but it's more of a responsive arousal, which is how we see most women respond
(14:48):
bond sexually when they're needing to be stimulated.
So I think that just knowing that it's very subjective and it's very personal
and what one person enjoys and how they maybe feel connected with their partner
can be two different things.
And that can only really be conveyed through intentional communication.
(15:09):
Yeah, absolutely. And I love how you mentioned, again, like we see in the media
where generally the male partner just rams it in and like, Like that's like,
it is so much more than that.
Like, and I, I've heard like that happening for so many different people.
And it's just like, no, like there's like, there's this process that you have to go through.
It's not just like term like wham, bam, thank you, ma'am. You know?
(15:31):
Yeah. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
There's a process, you know? And so, you know, most of them just like ram it in.
And it's like, I feel like it's very male subjective and like,
especially like for males and when it comes to porn and the media
thinking that like how sex works well it's
just so much more layered than that and especially from the
woman's perspective like we want more than that and I'm glad that I mentioned
(15:55):
that and so when we think about women who might and for example maybe experience
low sexual desire do you have any practical tips or advice you might offer for
women who might be experiencing that?
Yeah. I think it's important for women to really take inventory of where they're
at in their season of life.
So if you have little kids, yeah, you are more than likely going to be freaking
(16:19):
drained and super not interested in sex.
That makes sense. Your hormone levels are probably still out of whack from postpartum.
Maybe you just finished breastfeeding.
So really looking at the season of life that you're in and how that's impacting
your stress, Looking at your coping skills, your overall life satisfaction,
looking at different, again, hormonal levels.
(16:41):
Are you on birth control pills?
Are you on antidepressants? Are you getting enough protein in your diet? Is your iron low?
What are your estrogen levels? All of those factors are external-ish,
but also helpful to keep in mind when you are considering the whole picture.
But then what most people think of too
(17:01):
is okay so i just i'm never in the mood
and a lot of that is two things one i
see women just take on the mental load of the household so especially if their
moms and the biggest desire killer is responsibility so the more responsibility
a woman has the harder it is for her to turn off and tune out and just sit back
(17:23):
relax and enjoy their ride.
So if she feels alone in this overwhelm of all of these things that she has
to do, she is to really pull back.
And a lot of times there's resentment there. And resentment is a big fat wedge
that's going to prevent you from connecting with your partner,
but also from you connecting with yourself.
(17:44):
So that's the first big thing. The second thing that I see a lot of times with
women who have low desire is that they are incredibly disconnected from themselves.
So what ends up happening is that when we are little girls, we self-abandon
so that we can be accepted and loved.
And so in that process of self-abandoning, we say yes to things we don't want
(18:09):
to, and we are happy, and we're nice, and we're put together,
and we're not allowed to be unpleasant, and we have all of these expectations.
And through those years, we continue to bury our desires, and
we continue to ignore intuition intuition and so
then when we are in a long-term relationship we become
so disconnected from who we are and what
(18:30):
we want that it's really hard for us to be in our bodies and be open to receiving
pleasure oh my gosh that's so true and that makes a lot of sense especially
we're juggling so many things like women especially tend to be chronic people
pleasers yeah mentioning like we we put ourselves last in a way.
And I'm glad that because it really does make sense. It causes that kind of
(18:54):
disconnect between yourself.
So I really appreciate that you mentioned that. Is there a way that couples
can maybe improve their communication when it comes to their sexual desires and needs?
Yeah. So what I would do is talk about how you can incorporate more pleasure
outside of the bedroom first.
So that can feel really overwhelming to start. I don't know what I like. I don't know what I want.
(19:21):
That's really hard of even voicing that concern because a lot of women just
feel very powerless and voiceless in their relationships.
And so what I would encourage you to do is to tell your partner like,
Hey, I'm really trying to do a better job of prioritizing myself and connecting with myself.
So not even using the word pleasure, although I can't imagine... Well, I can't actually.
(19:44):
Most partners would be very supportive of like, Yeah, my partner is trying to
increase the pleasure in her life because she wants to be happier and be more
interested in sex. Yes, please. That sounds great.
Unfortunately, not all partners are huge cheerleaders of that.
That's a whole other topic.
But I think that when we start to do things that really bring us joy and happiness
(20:05):
outside of the bedroom, that we're more open to moving that and translating
that into being open to pleasure inside the bedroom.
Oh my gosh, that makes so much sense. And when we go back to thinking about
how much, especially as women, overcompensating and we have a lot on our plate Typically,
sometimes even prioritizing some of those basic needs can be difficult,
(20:29):
but it's just so it's crucial to really have that sense of self before we can think about another.
And I really appreciate that you mentioned that and moving into the next thing
and kind of thinking about the things that bring us pleasure.
What kind of advice might you offer someone who might be like,
(20:52):
for example, a lot of times, like our partner, kind of going back to thinking
like the shoving it in, right?
Thank you, ma'am, type thing. And sometimes I think as women,
like it can be hard for our partner to understand that it's not as simple,
you know, like depending on the person, of course, we may not get aroused as
easily as a man might, for example.
(21:13):
And what we're needing or expecting when it comes to intimacy is so important
because a lot of times for a guy who's like, okay, like I want to have sex and
it takes like longer for, I think for women, like there has to be that buildup.
And I think we're working with our partner on, let's say like even having a
date night or having that emotional connection first where I think a lot of
(21:35):
people might require like to, in order to feel like they want to be intimate.
Absolutely. Yeah. And being able to know that you are worth the time and effort of that buildup.
And a lot of women, sadly, don't believe that they are.
It's just easier if I just knock it out for 5 to 10 minutes and like,
(21:56):
okay, then we'll just move on and I'll go back to my crossword puzzle or scrolling
Instagram or going to sleep. Yeah, exactly.
And are there any practical tips or advice you might offer for someone who is
looking to have more of that lead in? Yeah, I think that a lot of men don't
realize the amount of foreplay that requires to really arouse a woman.
(22:17):
And I don't think they realize the amount of mental load that a lot of women carry.
I think if women had less of a mental load, that they would be easier to kind
of like, quote, snap out of it and like transition into more sexy time.
But it requires a lot of unloading and
a lot of men aren't aware
of that and so i think that women need to do a better job of
(22:40):
communicating those needs and being willing
to relinquish that control it really
helps me to relax knowing that i have a clean kitchen okay
great like hey if i know that like all you need for
us to like get it on is for me to clean the kitchen like i'll do
it every fucking night right but but the problem that
we see and well a couple of things is one a lot of times it's deeper
(23:01):
than that is that they're like well there's resentment of
all the years and like all the other areas that i'm carrying
and oh it's so easy for you just to do this and you're only doing it because
you want something but then the other issue i see with women too is that they
don't like how their partner cleans the kitchen or loads the dishes or makes
the lunches and so they don't want to relinquish the control to lessen or lighten
(23:24):
the responsibility so they They can be more sexually available.
And so it becomes this cycle of, no, no, no, you don't do it right.
Nope, I want to do it. I want to be in control. But then that control and that
time prevents them from really letting go and opening up sexually.
Yeah, absolutely. And it's interesting you mentioned that because like my husband
and I have had similar discussions before, as I'm sure like it's the case for
(23:46):
many of our guests as well.
But I really enjoy working out at least a few times a week. My husband,
on the other hand, he just does it because he has to.
And it's interesting because he knows like I've told him before,
like, you know, it's really attractive to me when you work out with me.
And that, you know, it turns me on, you know, I really want to work out.
(24:07):
And then when you work out with me, you know, that, that is like something for
me that will like lead to that, to the, like that next intimate step.
And so when we talk about it that way, like, he's a lot more willing to work
out. He's like, yeah, absolutely.
If he knows that sex is going to come after a workout, then it's like,
it's a huge motivator for him. 100%. Yeah.
(24:30):
Is there any advice that you might have for individuals who might be navigating
the modern dating scene in terms of sexuality and intimacy?
Come with that complicated structure of like dating, especially on dating and
dating in today's climate?
Yeah, I would say one to be aware of your attachment style. That will really
(24:51):
impact how you show up and how you interact.
And I think also being aware of your emotional baggage.
And if you have not dealt with that, that will a million percent impact your
ability to form healthy, long lasting relationships.
So those are the two big things. I think another thing is what's your purpose?
Not that dating necessarily has to be intentional or purposeful.
(25:13):
But what I see is that there's people who don't want to take the time to really
take inventory of like where they're at and what they're able to give in their life.
And so like, oh, I'm just like open to whatever. ever.
And the problem with that, it's like going to a restaurant and telling the waiter,
okay, well, I'm open to whatever.
And then the waiter's like, wait, do you want an appetizer? Dessert?
I don't know what to give you.
(25:35):
And so then you just get what you get. And then no wonder you're dissatisfied.
I think that a lot of people are afraid to set intentions and be like,
hey, I am looking for just something really casual right now.
And this is all I can offer you. Or I'm looking for a life partner.
I am really willing to settle down and invest in somebody because we're afraid of rejection.
(25:55):
And so if we just kind of take whatever we can get, then we're not going to be disappointed.
But that is such a big fat lie because we end up getting disappointed and being
in these really unhealthy cycles and really settling for things that we shouldn't be.
Absolutely. I mean, that makes a lot of sense. And I think when we think about
our own wants and desires,
(26:16):
that's something that we should really have at the forefront and not, again,
make decisions based on like, okay, we're afraid of being rejected and understanding
what we want and making decision factors based on that line of thinking will
help us get to that ultimate result. old.
And I think a lot of times, again, this is where communication will be ever
(26:37):
so important with the dating phase.
And I think a lot of times, folks, when they hear about, for example,
if they are just looking for something casual, a lot of people will have fun on that.
But honestly, it really is important because setting up the expectations and
being certain is just so important.
So both folks are on the same page.
(26:58):
Right. Yes. If you know that you're entering in... Like, hey,
I am telling you, I can only give you this amount of time, this amount of commitment.
Or if somebody else is telling you that, and this is where I really see the
problems is that somebody else is telling me, hey, Courtney,
I can only give you X, Y, or Z.
And I'm thinking, oh, but once they get to know me or once like I'll change
(27:20):
them or they'll all be so amazing and like they'll change. No, no, no.
I'm sorry, sweetie. They are not changing for nobody. It is not happening.
Believe people when they tell you what
they can give you believe them when they show you who
they are and that is really a lot easier said
than done oh absolutely it's such a hard decision
(27:42):
and not even in just like when it comes to like sexual expectations but this
can translate over to like many different things within relationships okay like
this is what they mean rather than you're setting yourself up for disappointment
so i want to pivot a little bit i think approaching Approaching the topic of
sexuality with children,
I think, can depend on a variety of different factors, again,
(28:03):
like religious beliefs.
But how might parents approach the topic of sexuality with their children?
Because I have seen it a few different ways.
I've seen people where they're very, to the point where, almost borderline inappropriate.
And then some parents are just afraid to say anything at all.
(28:24):
Like, like, yeah, that's the issue entirely.
So like, what is like the happy medium of parents approaching sexuality,
or the concept of sexuality with their children?
Yeah. So I'm a big fan of medically accurate, age-appropriate,
value-based sex education.
And so what that means is that we are using medically accurate terms.
(28:45):
So we're calling it a vulva and a clitoris and a penis and a test,
all of the things that we are not using shame or fear in any of our education or how we approach it.
So if you have your own baggage when it comes to sex, it will absolutely come
out when it comes to talking to your kids about sex.
So that is something that you really, if you want to be a good,
(29:08):
responsible parent in this, go see a therapist,
go work out, do a workbook, contact me, whatever you need to do,
because that is something that will absolutely be translated to your kiddos.
And then also age appropriate.
So when they are three or two or one, like, yeah, they should absolutely know
what the names of their body parts are.
They're usually not too inquisitive about how the baby gets inside the mom until
(29:33):
they're about three to five-ish. And so from there, again, you can just use very biological terms.
The values really don't come in unless we're talking about like gender roles
and those kind of things until a little bit later.
But as long as you keep it factually accurate, and then if you want to sprinkle
(29:55):
in your values. So like, oh, how did the baby get into the mommy's,
you know, belly or whatever?
Well, God, I hate that. It should be like in her uterus. Like,
let's use the correct terms.
And it's like, oh, well, the sperm fertilized the egg and then the egg grew
into a fetus. And then that became, you know, whatever.
Okay, well, how did the sperm get it? You let the kid lead you because they
(30:16):
will lead you most of the time.
If they don't and they start to get older, you can introduce that.
I'm like, oh, well, the sperm comes out of the penis.
And if you believe in sex only in marriage, so when two people get married and
they love each other, they have sex.
And this is what happens, that kind of thing. So you can incorporate your values
(30:40):
into that, either whether it's saying you need to be married or in love or just
two random people at a bar, however you wanna do it.
I always start the inside and work out. And a lot of times people will work outside going in.
So people will start with the two people wherever they're at.
And really, you can start with the sperm and the egg and work out from there.
(31:02):
I love that. And that honestly can be better said, honestly,
because it's interesting.
My grandparents were pretty conservative in this mindset. And I'm thinking about
my maternal grandmother specifically.
I think for my mom, especially, it was hard because...
And I say this because my grandfather on my maternal side was very,
(31:26):
I want to say, much more progressive to to the point where, like,
maybe, like, you don't want to tell a child, like, that much or expose a child that much.
And, like, so they were, like, on two different wavelengths. Yeah.
My mom, and then, which made it hard for, like, for me and my brother.
And then my dad had, like, his own way.
And so it's interesting, like, my brother would actually overhear my dad had,
(31:52):
like, my parents are divorced, but, like, he would overhear my dad, like, having sex.
And so, So like there, my dad didn't really think it was a big deal,
but like, so is there like a way for couples to maintain healthy,
satisfying sexual relationships and still kind of like have a line of boundaries
like with their children?
Are there any tips that you might have so like parents can do that like while
(32:14):
they're also raising children?
Yeah, I think one of the things that's important and this is something I would
communicate to my kids pretty early on is when your dad and I have the door
shut, it's really important that you respect our time together.
Yeah. And so I don't need to tell you what I'm doing behind the door.
I don't owe you an explanation.
You can try to contact me by like knocking or whatever. That's fine.
(32:39):
But like I, we intentionally have it closed because this is our time to connect.
And when you're in a long-term relationship, a committed relationship,
it's really important that that couple has time to connect together.
And so we didn't, I didn't talk about sex at all. if you are hearing your parents
like that's a different issue,
and depending on like the house setup and stuff
(33:00):
but I don't think there's anything wrong with telling kids that
like yeah I want time with just your dad that's something that I'm entitled
to and that I love and I enjoy and that's important in a relationship and like
you don't need me like and you're not you're gonna have to figure it out yourself
and that's okay yeah that makes a lot of sense and I think it's such a good idea especially to have.
(33:22):
Those boundaries with children as well, because I think that's something that
they can also take to like later in life as well.
Not even necessarily when it comes to like intimacy and sex,
but like in a variety of different ways, learning that there is going to be
like boundaries, like with their parents as well. And so I love that you mentioned that.
Yeah. And just even like having intentional time away.
So sometimes like I'll be in my room with my door shut and my kids know to knock
(33:45):
instead of just like walking in because sometimes I just need a break and I
just need to like, hey, I just need a timeout.
I just need to process. Maybe I need to make a phone call.
Maybe I just want to take a nap. The fact that I just need to connect with myself
and you don't need to have access to me, they know that that closed door is
significant and means something.
(34:06):
And so in order to access me, you need to ask for my permission.
And that is one beautiful way to teach consent.
Oh, absolutely. No, I love that. How does mental health impact sexual desire and relationships?
How does it not? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it just, it, it impacts everything.
(34:27):
And if you are in a really low place, like you are not going to have the energy
or feel like you are deserving of sexual fulfillment.
If you are anxious and overwhelmed, like that skyrockets that fight or flight
mode in our nervous system, which spikes cortisol and shuts down our reproductive productive system.
So like there is mental health is just so connected. It reflects and impacts everything.
(34:54):
Yeah, I like that you mentioned that because I think so many different folks
cope in different ways to a variety of different ways.
And I know some folks on one hand say they just suffered maybe a loss and their
form of comfort might be intimacy.
And while on the other hand, there might be someone else who might stray from
(35:15):
it because like, oh my gosh, I'm dealing with this thing. Yeah.
I've seen a lot of times there's a lot of stigma when it comes to folks who are like,
oh my god how could you want to have sex someone just died is a
level of compassion that we want to to make sure that we're keeping in mind
because different folks are coping with like these varieties absolutely yeah
it is and so that might be the way that like they're coping it might seem strange
(35:37):
but that's how like being intimate might be a way for them to kind of cope with that like,
that's something that we don't want to just discount even if it might absolutely absolutely Yeah.
So are there any strategies that folks can use to manage a variety of mental
health issues that might be affecting their sexual and romantic lives?
(35:59):
Yeah, I mean, I would say like definitely be grounded, like find ways where you feel connected.
So, you know, doing grounding, breathing exercises, really connecting with your body,
like box breathing, where you like inhale for four, hold for four,
exhale for four, hold for four, just really trying to calm your nervous system.
(36:21):
That's a really great way to do that. having outlets to allow the stress cycle to complete.
So physical exercise, laughing, crying, painting, gardening,
where you're moving your body, you're allowing that stress to physically dissipate from you.
Those are all things that can really help really lower the cortisol and really
(36:42):
help regulate your nervous system.
And that opens you up to more connection.
Oh, absolutely. And I was interesting. I was actually just talking with a guest
not too long ago know about the importance of connection.
And I think especially with any mental health-related issue that we might be
going through, I think it's so important that we communicate that with our partners.
So nothing can feel more isolating than trying to keep it to ourselves because
(37:06):
I think a deepened connection can also spark that desire for intimacy between
partners rather than like, I guess, suffering in silence, so to speak.
So as a coach, what common challenges do you see seeing your clients regarding
relationships and sexuality?
Are there any common challenges that you might see more often than others?
(37:27):
I think a lot of it is not feeling worthy of pleasure and not feeling worthy
of a good, happy, joy-filled life.
A lot of that ends up manifesting itself in self-sabotage, conflict,
being unboundaried. So a lot of codependency. I would say those are pretty common things.
That makes a lot of sense, especially if we're dealing with a lot of deep-rooted
(37:50):
insecurity, thinking that we may not be worthy of that intimate love one.
So I love that you mentioned that. Are there any steps folks might be able to
take to improve their overall relationship and sexual health?
I mean, it's easy to say, oh, like really looking at where does that belief
come from that I'm not loving and worthy.
I'm a big fan of inner child work. So really connecting with that little girl
(38:14):
or little boy or whoever inside of you.
And really giving them that safe space and allowing that person of you to heal
and accepting that part of you that feels that shadow part that feels unloved and unwanted.
I think that's a really helpful tool to do. A lot of that deeper work though
requires professional help.
Unfortunately, you can't just read a book or listen to a couple of podcasts.
(38:37):
Like it's really about... Like those are helpful and those are great tools. Absolutely.
But really working with a professional is going to get you where you want to go.
That makes a lot of sense. If you could give any piece of advice to our listeners
about enhancing their relationships and sexual health, what might it be?
I would like giving yourself permission to really pursue whatever it is that
(38:59):
you want and really believing that you are worthy and deserving of amazing things.
I love that. That is so true.
And kind of pivoting a little bit, are there any new projects or initiatives
that you're currently working on?
Actually, yes. So I'm currently writing my second book, which will be a memoir,
which I'm really excited about.
And then I'm also working on a women's small group to Paris in late spring, early summer next year.
(39:26):
So I'm really passionate about the power of community, especially women together
and just working through and talking.
And it's like an intentional girls trip. Those are the two big things I'm working on.
I love that. I actually went to Paris a little bit earlier this year.
It was an amazing experience. So that is so much fun.
(39:47):
Is there anything else that you'd like to share with our audience about relationships and sexuality?
I think what we don't realize is that we really settle and accept the love that we deserve.
And so if we are in places where we are really unhappy, a lot of it is like
it's mirrors. Our relationships are mirrors of how we see ourselves.
(40:11):
And so we really start to take ownership of that, of like, man,
yeah, I really value myself so little and that's why I'm tolerating this kind
of behavior from my mom or from my husband or whatever.
That can be a huge game changer. And it can be a really empowering,
but it can also be really overwhelming too.
And I know we mentioned a little bit earlier talking about the self-sabotage.
(40:33):
And I think that's so common when we feel like we're not deserving and we could
be with a wonderful partner.
And if we don't think we're worthy, we might take even unconscious steps to
sabotage because we inherently have this belief that we're not worthy.
And we might do things to our partner or say things to our partner that maybe
we don't even mean and intend to sabotage because we are stuck with this belief.
(40:58):
So I really appreciate that you mentioned that because that's so important to
having a more fulfilling relationship,
a more fulfilling partnership is having that internal belief that yes,
we are worthy of intimacy and a loving relationship, a loving partnership.
And so I love that you mentioned that. Before we kind of close out,
can you tell us how our listeners can connect with you and learn more about
(41:22):
your upcoming work at all the projects that you're working on?
Yeah, sure. So I'm on social media. at Courtney Boyer Coaching.
And then my website is CourtneyBoyerCoaching.com. And if I love hearing from
listeners, DM me, send me an email.
It's CourtneyBoyerCoaching at gmail.com, Courtney with a C.
So yeah, that's all the places to find me.
(41:44):
So I'll make sure I connect with you as well once we get off this call.
I've loved our conversation.
It was a pleasure having you on here and I'm so excited for this episode.
This was such a fun one that I've done. Um, so I love their conversations.
So thank you so much for joining me.
Thank you so much for having me. I loved it too. Thank you. Take care. Bye.
(42:06):
Music.
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