April 26, 2024 • 56 mins
In this enlightening episode, Lindsay Andrews—an integrative trauma coach and host of the podcast 'Unstuck on You'—shares her personal experiences with overcoming codependency. Drawing from her struggles and self-healing journey, Andrews provides useful insights into therapy, journaling, and other aids for those striving to maintain healthy boundaries and relationships.
Andrews discusses her journey of self-discovery towards holistic healing and her endeavors to understanding the importance of setting boundaries amidst self-neglect and a tendency for people-pleasing — the hallmarks of codependency. She emphasizes the importance of being proactive and intentional in one's self-improvement journey and shares her experiences on how she developed effective communication skills and healthier relationships.
In this engaging conversation, the guests share their strategies for managing and overcoming codependency. They open up about their pasts, marked by feelings of anger and a sense of victimhood and how they navigated towards a healthier way of dealing with conflict resolution and relationships. They stress the importance of setting personal boundaries, especially for people struggling with issues like low self-esteem and obsessive worry about others' opinions.
The conversation extends to societal pressures that perpetuate codependent behaviors and offers relevant tips on starting small with something as empowering as saying "no." It underscores the importance of self-care and explores the challenges of holiday family dynamics and fears of disappointing others. The discussion underscores the critical role of self-awareness in managing personal responsibilities and emotions with emphasis on listening to one’s inner voice as an integral part of the healing process.
In the concluding segment of this episode, the guest sheds light on strategies for dealing with emotional addictions positively related to codependency. They stress the importance of finding support through therapists or support groups during rough phases. They encourage listeners to stay connected, tune into the podcast, 'Unstuck on You,' and they sign off with a note of gratitude – a testament to shared experiences and unity in self-reclamation.
Website: www.unstuckonyou.com
Instagram: unstuckonyou
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Music.
(00:08):
Joined by Lindsay Andrews, a certified integrative trauma coach who also has
her very own podcast called Unstuck on You.
In this episode, we'll be talking about different techniques such as therapy,
journaling, and ways to aid in healing when it comes to codependency.
Well, I really appreciate you joining me today. I was really intrigued by your background.
(00:31):
Love to learn a little bit more about you. And I'd love to learn more about
your journey with codependency and kind of how you began that process.
Yeah, yeah, no, I got started, gosh, I am a recovering codependent myself.
So really, this is a personal path for me and sort of my interest in codependency
(00:53):
was born out of self-discovery and just my own lessons when my relationships
weren't working quite the way I wanted them to in adulthood.
So I learned about codependency in my late 20s,
early 30s, and really kind of dove into it,
sort of wanting to better understand why I struggled with setting boundaries
(01:17):
and speaking up for myself and really struggling with how to have maybe the
relationship that I wanted.
So, yeah, I mean, it all started for me in childhood. You know, I had...
You know, some things that kind of created that dynamic for me to become a codependent.
And so, yeah, that's, you know, in a nutshell, kind of how it began on a personal path.
(01:42):
And then I'm a podcast host myself, and that's called Unstuck on You.
And I basically want to help other women who struggle with their own relationships
and want to break free from codependency so that they can and really live the
life that they're meant to live, you know, and really get to know who they are as individuals.
(02:03):
Absolutely. And I have a similar journey kind of starting off in my childhood
that kind of led into my early relationship.
I've been with my husband since I was 16. And definitely those early years were
honestly quite a bit of a struggle.
And I kind of brought in a lot of my childhood trauma.
So it took us many, many years to learn to kind of have a healthy relationship, so to speak.
(02:29):
I mean, of course, it wasn't that we loved each other any less or anything like that.
It's just I think, where we came from, both of us were each other's first and
like kind of like learning how to navigate that and how to have healthy boundaries.
And in my family, it's funny, one of my therapists had said that pretty much
boundaries were not non-existent. So I had to kind of learn to implement them
(02:52):
from basically the ground up.
And so, yeah, it takes many, many years. So I totally understand that it is a lot of work.
Can you tell me about maybe what maybe for you the most challenging aspect of
setting boundaries might have been and maybe how you overcame that?
Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the foundational things of being a codependent
(03:18):
is that it really is the chronic neglect of self in order to gain approval,
love, validation, and self-identity through another person.
So that's basically what codependency is about.
When the whole focus is sort of outside yourself and sort of,
you know, developing these patterns of people pleasing,
(03:40):
it's really easy to kind of fall in the trap of the other person sort of catering to the other person.
So, you know, I think when I think about setting boundaries and how difficult
it was for me, I think that it just, it kind of goes back to that idea of,
(04:01):
you know, really not looking at myself and sort of looking within in terms of
what did I want in those relationships?
And how did I want to show up for myself?
Because I was really just looking outside of myself for all things to get that
validation and love. I thought that's what I was supposed to do.
So, I mean, I'm not sure if, I mean, I'm trying to think of a specific example.
(04:28):
I just think that that was kind of a chronic sort of symptom of codependency
for me was that difficulty in setting boundaries.
And so once I got a divorce, so I was married for 18 years and I got a divorce five years ago.
And once I got divorced, that's really what sort of that started the journey
(04:49):
for me and sort of understanding who I was as an individual and what I was, who I was.
I really had an identity crisis within myself because I felt like I really didn't
know myself for many, many years because I was obviously looking outside of
myself for my own validation.
So I think that once I started to get to know who I was and start to be curious
(05:15):
about myself and start developing my own hobbies and my own interests and my
own opinions about things,
that's when I started to develop some trust within myself.
And that's when I started to be able to create better boundaries for myself individually.
So it's a process. It's not easy.
(05:37):
And I certainly, certainly, I'm like looking back on all the years,
and I'm sure there were moments where I was very good at setting boundaries
in certain aspects of my life.
But But for the most part, it was a challenge for me.
Yeah, I can 100% relate to that.
And I know for me personally, early on, I was doing a lot of projecting on my
(05:59):
own insecurities and having these, of course, unrealistic expectations of what
a partner should give and provide.
And it's a lot of, well, if you love me, you will do X, Y, and Z,
right? Right. And so, yeah.
And then, and more, more recently, probably within the last,
probably like five or so years when.
(06:21):
We really kind of made a huge improvement and turnaround as far as that and
navigating our relationship.
It's been so much healthier.
And I think, of course, also age also helps. Absolutely.
It looks a little bit different than when we were in our early 20s.
But yeah, I definitely totally understand that.
(06:42):
How did you effectively learn to communicate your thoughts, feelings, and emotions?
Conditions. Once I sort of got out of my marriage, is that what you mean? Yeah.
Kind of like what was the process for you? I think maybe the turning point to
where you feel like I really have a lot of healthier feelings,
(07:03):
thoughts, and boundaries for myself.
Yeah. I mean, I would say once I got the divorce, I had already been seeing
a therapist at the time And I was making a weekly commitment to that.
And that was really, really crucial to my sort of having another person there
(07:24):
that could see and give me and provide me another perspective about how I was viewing the situation.
I think it's very, very challenging when you're in any kind of recovery.
It doesn't matter if you're a codependent or an alcoholic to be able to have
someone in your corner that can help you see things objectively.
(07:46):
And so I would say that was sort of maybe the turning point for me starting
to take control of my life in a positive way. And then I think over time.
You know, being single, you know, I'm a single mom, but it did allow me to explore different things.
(08:08):
So if I needed to have a difficult conversation at work, you know,
kind of like I got to a point where it was like, I know that me not saying anything
and using my voice, that's kind of like not an option anymore.
And so I was slowly, like I said, sort of building that trust within myself.
And, you know, ultimately, you know, codependents have very,
(08:31):
very low self-esteem, low self-worth.
And so my work really was on getting to know, getting to know and love myself.
And so, you know, that kind of charted the path for me to be more proactive
and taking control of my life and doing the things that I enjoy and spending
(08:53):
time with people that lifted me up.
I mean, it's so funny because I look back and I think, how in the world, like, how did I get here?
You know, and I'm not, I'm not, you know, we're human beings on this earth.
We're never going to ever have it figured out.
But when I look back just in these last five years, my relationships have changed.
I've changed in such a beautiful way. And so it is really a process.
(09:17):
And it's one that is just sounds simple by just showing up for yourself,
but really does take intentional focus and effort on the individual who wants
to change and make their life better.
Absolutely. And you brought up a really good point because I know,
for me, not even necessarily just like within my relationship is where I kind
(09:37):
of identified that I had issues with communicating boundaries,
especially like being, I was married pretty young and kind of coming out of
a toxic environment and kind of like being kind of pushed into the world.
And then it was just, it was like a huge learning process.
And I think it took so many years for me to realize it's like,
(09:59):
huh, this is how people should treat each other. This is how people should communicate.
And it took being outside of that bubble for me to kind of realize that,
wow, this is what healthy relationships look like.
This is what healthy boundaries look like.
And for so many years, especially as you mentioned, like in like a workplace environment,
(10:20):
it's really hard to communicate, especially if it's from a boss,
like different different boundaries that you might have and
especially for me I'm also an introvert
so it's it could be really really challenging
to communicate what you're needing without feeling like like that inside voice
is kind of like questioning like should I even say that I know like for me it's
(10:43):
something that I'm always sometimes even still working on today where like I
I kind of I'm second guessing myself if I maybe said or did something should I have not said that.
And so I feel like it's, it's definitely a learning process,
like as we continue to go to grow.
And yeah, like, I really feel like because of that, like feeling like kind of handicapped in a way,
(11:07):
when I was much younger, where many other people were first going to college
and getting their first jobs kind of going through that process,
like I was kind of not necessarily in fight or flight mode, but like kind of
just trying to like get by,
just trying to, just trying to like live each day.
And I feel like it probably wasn't until...
(11:29):
Probably more recently within the last five years or
so that I really have made like a
huge like turning point to where I just
feel comfortable just communicating boundaries with
folks because like kind of coming from an environment where we didn't even know
what those were I remember when I first heard my therapist talk about that I'm
(11:50):
like oh really I didn't I didn't know because I don't know anything else and
right and so it's just been a monumental impact on my life.
And it for sure, like just has improved my life like 100%.
It's challenging if you don't have, you know, good model for healthy relationships
(12:11):
or healthy partnership or friendships, or you haven't witnessed,
you know, a difficult conversation.
Maybe there was a lot of arguing in your, you know, childhood home,
or maybe there, I mean, there's all sorts of different dynamics.
You know, and we all experience a wide range of traumas.
Like we don't get out of childhood without some kind of trauma, right?
(12:35):
So like it makes it challenging if you don't have some of those really great
models so that you can be like, oh, well, this is how so-and-so did it.
I'm going to... So, you know, it really does kind of put you,
I would say, at a deficit, you know, in especially in some of your earlier relationships.
(12:55):
And I applaud you. I think that that's fantastic that you and your spouse have
been able to sort of grow and evolve together. That's not an easy thing.
And it sounds like you have really come to a great place of,
you know, sort of communication and kind of understanding each other's needs,
which is awesome. But like it just kind of.
(13:16):
Ever so important. I think that when we're victims, we feel victimized in childhood
from the things maybe we didn't get, that we forget when we're adults that we
actually have the opportunity to take responsibility for ourselves, right?
I think that's where I sat for a long time in my adult life was,
this is who I am. This is what I was dealt with.
(13:38):
And this is how I show up. And I didn't know another way.
So I think that we can have an opportunity to change that and really take control
about on conversations, who we choose to be with, who we choose not to be with.
That we are ultimately in control, even though even when we're in the heat of
(14:01):
maybe, you know, codependency or another type of situation, you might not feel
that way at the time, but we absolutely are.
And it's really up to us to change the narrative there.
For sure. Absolutely. I know for me, like there was a big period of time where
I was just feeling like, I don't want to say victim mentality,
but I was like very angry.
(14:22):
Like, wow, as I dealt this hand and kind of spent some years kind of navigating
that and kind of thinking back to where like, especially like growing up,
well, this is how a conflict resolution was navigated.
Like people were yelling at each other. This is how people resolve things.
And then I think honestly, just kind of as I kind of like got out into the world
(14:45):
and had different relationships
and kind of had different experiences, it kind of took me, took that,
honestly, for me to realize like, whoa, like there is a whole different way
like to navigate this and to kind of realize that like it wasn't a healthy example
and that I can change that.
(15:05):
And it definitely, yeah, it took a very, very long time to be able to do that.
And how would you, for any of our listeners who might be struggling with maybe
once they implement boundaries, how would you advise anyone who might maybe
be struggling with any obsessive thinking about other people's opinions?
(15:29):
Yeah, I mean, the most important opinion is the one that we have of ourselves.
And so super hard if you're struggling with the boundary setting,
if you don't have a high view of yourself. self.
You know, I interviewed a woman not too long ago on my podcast.
We talked about boundary basics.
And really, it's just starting small, you know.
(15:51):
And one of the most powerful things, which, you know, if you're on Instagram
or TikTok, you know, I'm sure you've come across this, you know,
in the self-help world, but it's basically like, no is a sentence.
And so, starting out with just saying no is a really powerful way in which you
can start setting boundaries because it is one word and you don't have to apologize
(16:14):
for it. You don't have to do anything.
I think we, because, you know, codependency and the boundaries and people pleasing
and worrying about obsessive worry about what everyone else thinks of us,
it's like they're going to have a bad view of us and we're wanting to control
that narrative of what they think of us.
But at the end of the day, it's really hurting us when we don't set those boundaries
(16:39):
and don't take care of us first.
And so, yeah, I mean, it sounds simple. And I wish I had a maybe more nuanced answer for you.
But yeah, I mean, starting off small with the things that, you know,
you feel like you can start with. Because kind of diving into some really heavy
boundary setting is that's that's that can be complicated, especially if you're struggling.
(17:00):
So I would say start small and play around with that and see how that feels.
Yeah, I've definitely heard like often that no is a complete sentence and I agree with that.
And I'll be honest, sometimes it's something I still kind of struggle with because
I feel like I need to like be like, no, but because, you know,
(17:23):
to kind of lessen the blow to that other person.
And I think maybe you can let me know what you think, but I feel like it might
be something that we just have to get comfortable with, I guess,
being uncomfortable by saying that.
Just kind of get used to it and be okay with it. It's a muscle. Yeah.
(17:45):
And I think, yeah, for sure, a lot of people, honestly, really do struggle with
that and implementing boundaries.
And I think especially in terms of codependency,
I think I read somewhere that I think it kind of stems for a lot of people to
where they're going to maybe lose that love or that friendship from that person
(18:09):
that they're afraid that they're going to maybe in some way jeopardize that relationship.
But in reality, a healthy relationship, assuming that relationship is healthy,
that person will understand and won't be offended or upset that you told them no.
So I think that's very well stated. Yeah, I agree with that.
(18:30):
And yes, it's fear of losing the relationship, fear of, I mean,
that's the ultimate fear, right, is saying no, and you feel like your relationship is at jeopardy.
And so, especially, you know, if it's caregiver, you know, someone that raised
you or was a primary caregiver to you as a child, I feel like that is even more of a complex situation.
(18:53):
And that's why, like, you know, holidays can be kind of challenging for a lot
of people because they don't want to say no. You know, it's definitely...
You know, it's, it's, it's a hard area. And, and so I agree with that.
I think that's well stated.
Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned holidays for sure.
(19:13):
And that's something that's always been a little bit tricky,
especially being from like a family, like with, with like my,
my parents are, have been divorced and same thing, like for my husband.
So there's like, kind of like a, like a mixed family dynamic going on.
And so with each like holiday, it kind of comes up.
I'm always like afraid of like, am I going to disappoint someone?
(19:34):
If I, you know, if we end up deciding we're going to, we're going to do X,
Y, Z this year, or we're going to see so-and-so this day.
And we're going to see my, like my husband's family on this day or something like that.
And it's really, it's really tricky. Cause like, I don't want to like disappoint anyone.
And, but it's just like, at the same time, it's like, I got,
(19:56):
this is just honestly, it's going to how it's going to be.
And like, also, inevitably, I feel like we might end up disappointing someone.
And there may just not be anything we can really do about it.
And I, it's a hard crossroads to be just feeling like, okay,
I'm going to have to make a decision.
And inevitably, there's going to be someone who's disappointed.
(20:18):
And I think that also kind of helps navigate just kind of the reality of it.
Like no matter what decision I make, it's going to disappoint someone.
And so I may as well just make the right decision.
That's going to, that's going to work for me and, and just have to be okay with that.
Have to be okay with sometimes other people will be disappointed and ultimately
(20:41):
there's not much we can do about it.
And I feel like that applies sometimes with friendships or different responsibilities
that we might have going on.
So yeah, I definitely think that could be a tricky one.
Yeah, Valerie, I mean, I hear all the things you're saying, and it's always so tricky.
And that isn't just for codependence. I think everybody kind of has these people-pleasing traits.
(21:07):
I mean, there are varying degrees.
And I think one of the hardest things, though, and codependency is,
at least for me personally,
I took a lot of responsibility, whether or not that was intended for me,
but I took on and I thought I was taking on responsibility for everyone.
I felt like it was my responsibility to fix things. It was my responsibility to take care of things.
(21:33):
If there was a conflict, my responsibility to resolve that conflict, even if I wasn't even...
Part of the conflict itself. I just stepped in.
And I really, I think, harmed a lot of relationships because I took on that
role that wasn't meant for me.
And I think a foundational thing that is really important for people listening
(21:58):
if they struggle with codependency is allowing and being okay with other people
having their own feelings.
And that's been a big moment for me and that recognition that I'm not responsible
for everyone else's feelings.
And it is highly likely that I will do or say something that will upset someone,
(22:19):
even though my intention is, you know, I have my own values and I have my own things.
And And so I really, I think it's awesome that, you know, you're sort of like,
hey, this is what I need to do for me and my family and how I want to show up.
And it might ruffle some feathers or people might be upset.
(22:41):
But like at the end of the day, like they'll deal with it.
You know, they will figure it out. And therefore, like you're taking control
of your own decision. So I think that's really cool.
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And I definitely understand like the role of feeling
like you have to fix things.
And I think that's part of something that I've been struggling with,
(23:03):
especially like since I was younger, I've always been like the child that kind
of just kind of goes along with everything.
And so when I kind of started breaking that dynamic and kind of pushing back,
it was a real shell shocker for a lot of people in my family.
And so being able to navigate that is definitely has been a process.
But yeah, as you said, at the end of the day, like, you know,
(23:27):
it's, you know, people are going to have to manage their own emotions and feelings over it.
And generally, like, it doesn't mean that they're gonna, you know,
even you might have a perceived feeling that they might love you less or something like that.
But generally, it's, it's a short lived, you know, moment, you know,
disappointment for the other person and life.
(23:47):
Right, right. I mean, it seems so simplistic, but I, you know,
really want to put some empathy out for people that might be struggling with this.
And because I have been in that position and felt like the victim and really
struggled with what to do with, you know, really, to me felt like really, really big things.
(24:09):
And it was a, it was a hard struggle to get through.
And I still struggle with with things with with with relationships, setting boundaries.
And, you know, it's always the takeaway isn't, oh, my God, I did that wrong.
I shouldn't have said that. Or I think I've upset someone. It's like,
oh, my gosh, what did I learn from this?
(24:30):
If it wasn't 100 percent success, well, what did I learn?
And stepping back and asking yourself that question, because our brains are
naturally really wired, right, to like go to the negative and think about all
the things that we completely sucked at. Like, oh my God, I can't even believe I said that.
And at the end of the day, we might have said like 80% of the conversation in
(24:52):
setting that boundary might have been really, really positive and we made a
lot of great progress and momentum, but yet we still choose to focus on the negative.
So I highly recommend sort of, you know, what did I learn in taking that approach?
Because yeah, there might be some negative aspects to setting a boundary that
you're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe.
But also, I said something this time when I normally don't say anything.
(25:17):
Or I was in an uncomfortable place and my insides were screaming to like leave and I left.
And like, how proud am I of myself for leaving?
And I think that's also another big thing. It's like our bodies,
our insides, whether it's the, you know, the nudges or maybe an upset stomach
or whatever, like they're talking to us all the time.
(25:40):
So, you know, listening to yourself when you have a feeling about,
you know, something not right or, you know, you're, I don't know.
I just think that that's also another really important thing to,
you know, listen to yourself.
So, yeah, I would, I mean, those are kind of my thoughts around that.
(26:00):
Absolutely. Yeah. And I love that you mentioned our bodies are just so perceptive,
even sometimes more so than like cognitively we're dealing with a situation.
And it's something that I've kind of noticed maybe like more recently as well
is that my stomach's like turning or I just feel like maybe extra tired.
(26:20):
Like my body's like telling me like there's something wrong or and different things like that.
I'm learning to kind of be more aware that it's not just like necessarily just
like a cognitive function, but our body reacts to the different stimulator that
are going on around us as well. Yeah, absolutely.
So with that said, moving kind of
into I know we live in a society that it places a lot of pressure on us.
(26:45):
How do you think that maybe society perpetuates codependent behavior and how
can we maybe work on changing that?
Wow, that's an incredible question.
Gosh, how does society perpetuate codependency? Well, I mean, I almost feel like,
(27:07):
you know, at least my feeds and social media are all kind of promoting sort
of this independent culture, which is interesting.
And so I feel like because I've been in this sort of independent space,
that's more what I sort of pay attention to and see more.
So I feel like a lot of the sort of self-help society sort of leaning more towards that.
(27:32):
I do think that in terms of codependency itself, I think that that word,
it gets thrown around a lot.
Like it's, you know, you're so codependent, you know, and without really,
and that's basically like, hey, you're so needy. Like that's the translation
(27:53):
that I make. You're so codependent, you're so needy.
And so I don't, I think people throw that around a lot and kind of use that as a, you know, a label.
And I think that codependency is actually quite layered and complex.
And it's challenging to articulate what it is and how it shows up in relationships.
(28:16):
So I don't know how to answer that question other than to say that, you know, ultimately.
It's society does have an aspect in all the things you think about just,
you know, the patriarchal, you know, influences,
you know, certainly women in this situation are often the codependents,
(28:37):
women who don't use their voices, women that are taught to stay quiet and sort
of go along and be, you know, sort of the dutiful wife.
And so I think that that certainly has perpetuated.
And also, as you know, women have, you know, since the 70s, 60s,
70s, 80s, women going into the workplace, and then also doing all the other
(28:58):
things that they customarily did before they entered the workforce.
I mean, it's just like you add on all of these sort of layers to it.
It gets complex to unpack.
So ultimately, you know, that relationship with yourself.
I mean, I always laugh when people are like, oh, you just need to have a relationship
with yourself. You just need to love yourself.
But no, seriously, like that is ultimately how we treat ourselves.
(29:23):
I mean, we're with ourselves for the rest of our lives. People come, people go.
But it really, really is important to be compassionate and understanding and
forgiving and loving to ourselves.
And so, you know, I'm glad that there's a lot of things out,
(29:44):
you know, in social media and all these self-help books out there.
And there's a lot of people doing amazing work to help perpetuate and sort of
promote this idea that we really do need to focus on ourselves a little bit
to show up better for our relationships.
Absolutely. Very well spoken and well said. And it kind of made me think of
(30:06):
when my husband and I first got together, we both came from a lot of trauma.
So I think in a way, like, it was very much a codependent relationship between
both of us on both sides until a lot until we really spent that time to really work on ourselves.
Ourselves and basically it was kind
(30:27):
of like discovering like who we were like
after like we've kind of navigated and
unpacked all of that and it's definitely
not an easy thing and even though we've been together so long i i don't know
if i i can't i can't recommend it i i always will advocate that if if given
the opportunity to work on ourselves before entering a relationship I mean, it can be done for sure.
(30:54):
And I've always told people, I'm like, throughout our marriage, it has not been easy.
It's been a lot of tears, a lot of hard work, definitely not easy,
you know, versus if we were all like on our own and navigating our own.
Because in a relationship, I feel like we're navigating through each other's trauma.
(31:17):
And so it makes it a lot more difficult.
But yeah, I always like to be transparent with people about that and definitely
think it makes a big difference.
Well, I think that it's important to state that regardless if you are in a relationship
or not, Like you don't have to not be like it's not a requirement to not be
(31:41):
in a relationship to work on yourself. Right.
And so you can't. I think what becomes challenging is when if you're a codependent,
you're in a codependent relationship and that dysfunctional pattern exists between the couple.
It becomes ever so challenging to step outside and start developing and nurturing
(32:02):
your own self-identity and respect because the codependent is so focused on the other person.
And so I certainly think it's possible.
I've spoken with people who have, you know, had these relationship challenges,
just as you're stating, Valerie, and they have been able to navigate those together
(32:24):
successfully. It's hard work.
For me, it just so happened to work out.
I didn't want to end my marriage, but I think that it got to a place where it just made sense to.
And because of that, it has afforded me the opportunity to be able to.
(32:45):
Dive in and sort of like really allow that time to focus on myself and get to
know who I am as a person and what I want and establish my own values.
And that's kind of the thing.
It's like, oh, who am I? When you strip everything away, like, who am I?
How do I want to show up? And so, yeah, I appreciate you sharing your perspective
(33:07):
in your relationship and how you've been able to navigate through because I
don't think it's, you know,
oh, you have to do the work and like be like totally like healed on the inside
out before you can be ready for a partner.
I think also like our partners, there's, there's going to be things that trigger
us in our relationships.
And that's kind of cool too, because we get to work on other things that we
(33:31):
couldn't do as a single person. So So kudos to you.
Thank you. Yeah, you actually bring up a great point as far as thinking about
triggers, because there are definitely still some times where those still happen.
And I'm much better able to recognize that than I did before.
And yeah, I definitely think it takes, and especially when you're both like
(33:56):
suffering from a lot of baggage and trauma in order to make it work.
I think for sure, like both parties have to be willing and wanting to make that relationship work.
And it's like a lot of reflection on the self and working on the self and then,
within that relationship and how does that translate into the rest of the relationship?
(34:19):
So yeah, I love that you mentioned that.
And it kind of is something that I've been thinking about. out,
is there a line between like maybe a healthy dependency in a relationship and how,
how maybe it might translate when, when does it cross the line in the codependency?
(34:40):
Yeah. I mean, there's certainly a line, I mean, in terms of having,
I would say a healthy relationship versus it becoming not healthy.
And so I would say there's several things like.
Maybe signs if it's becoming unhealthy would be like sort of overinvestment in the relationship.
(35:06):
Like if one party is maybe, you know, too invested than the other.
I found it fascinating that you said you and your husband were kind of codependent
on each other, which that's like another topic because I would love to talk
to you about that separately.
But usually it's been my experience that there's
sort of a codependent like enabler and then there's someone
(35:28):
on the other side the partner that is you
know kind of the one you know they they
could have a mental illness they can have an addiction issue or whatever but
it's sort of that that polarity if you will so that enabling can happen but
I would say like healthy dependence is pretty I mean I would say it's pretty
(35:50):
obvious because you're feeling healthy.
If you are, you know, jealous or possessive, or you're neglecting your own self-care
because you want to please the other person to maintain the relationship.
If you're avoiding like conflicts. So, you know, we know that avoiding disagreements
and conflicts that, you know, that's a red flag, right?
(36:14):
For something that's kind of crossing the line.
So fearing that, you know, we just talked about this, like any disagreements,
will lead to rejection or abandonment.
We talked a little bit about the lack of boundaries.
Excessive giving is another one. So just, you know, going to great lengths to
please the partner and often at the expense of their own needs and desires.
(36:36):
So, I mean, those are just kind of a few things that's like,
okay, like you are clearly like stepping over the line, I would say,
of healthy dependence because you can see that like it's kind of lopsided, right?
Like usually Usually one person is sort of behaving in this way.
And the other person I would say is maybe more of the taker. That is so true.
(36:59):
And do you think when it comes to codependency, maybe outside relationships,
how can we maybe navigate that if it could be like a parent and child or maybe a friendship?
I feel like codependency is a topic we hear more when it comes to relationships,
(37:20):
but do you think it's possible to kind of establish a codependency to be established
in other different parts of our lives?
100%. 100%. Yeah, it can happen at work.
And what happens, the codependent, it sounds interesting, and this is where
psychology comes into this, but, you know, codependents often form,
(37:44):
you know, this in childhood.
And so, you know, and it's due to the relationship between that child and the
caregiver, the primary caregivers.
And so a lot of times what a codependent will do as an adult,
if they haven't worked on their own healing, is they could put a boss into sort
(38:05):
of a primary caregiver role.
So, okay, I'm going to work. This is my boss.
But they start treating the boss like the parent.
And so that's a pretty common thing. Same with even spouses.
I know you were talking more specifically outside of the a relationship,
like other relationships that the codependent or recovering codependent might have.
(38:28):
But like, you know, it's pretty common to kind of put the other person as like
in a role of a caregiver and kind of recreate that situation because that is
what we're familiar with.
We're familiar with, you know,
walking on eggshells. We're familiar with arguing and having conflict.
(38:51):
And so we find people that sort of emulate that caregiver child dynamic that
we experience in childhood.
Oh, absolutely. I'm glad that you mentioned that because and it's something
that I had been thinking about previously.
And I think that it's so common for a lot of people and even not even just like
(39:12):
for me and my relationship, but I think it's so common to kind of replay a.
And kind of, I guess, act out those different scenarios that maybe we would
have had experienced with a parent if we haven't maybe like worked on resolving
your healing that into, into our relationship.
(39:35):
And like, for me, like also a long, long time ago, like I would see like bosses
and managers as like, Oh, like an authority figure,
kind of, of kind of like a parenting figure in a way to where I felt like I couldn't speak up.
(39:55):
And yes, they're my boss, but also I have expectations of them as a boss.
They should be treating me with decency and respect.
And just because they have that title doesn't give them that permission.
And I should be able to voice my thoughts and stuff. So I can definitely see
how that might present itself in the workplace because it can be a definite
(40:18):
struggle, especially when it's a person in power that you're working with.
Yeah. I love that you said sort of authority figures.
I think this is where the codependent struggles the most is there when there
is a perceived sense of authority, then there's sort of this wanting to please,
wanting to be liked sort of thing that comes along with the relationship.
(40:39):
Relationship and yeah that that
can get someone kind of in trouble personally because
you're constantly on a hamster wheel of people pleasing and it can be really
damaging I spent many years in a situation that you know where I had a supervisor
that was very challenging to work with And,
(41:02):
but I, I complicated it even more because I was adding that sort of,
I was looking at this person with that sort of lens.
And so it was kind of showing up in some not so healthy ways because I wanted
to be liked and I wanted to be, I wanted to belong.
And I, I did a lot of extra work to please and to be accepted and to be acknowledged.
(41:29):
And and then it it's really important
that we find good people to surround ourselves with you know like I think it's
like now I look back and I'm just like oh my gosh like that should have been
over in like a week you know that should have been and like if I were to show
up in that same situation now I would be like yeah this isn't gonna work out
so it's it's a process it's a.
(41:52):
You know, realize that there are certain people out there that are not good
to be around, you know, and so having that ability to say, no,
this isn't for me and walking away.
It takes time if you've if you've often struggled with that.
Yeah. And kind of thinking about it for me, I think it's so important to note
that, especially in the workplace, it comes down to being that relationship is transactional.
(42:16):
I have had some really great positive experiences with managers that have really
advocated for me over the years.
And I've just been so immensely thankful for that.
I've like learned so much and we've sometimes continued friendship,
like, you know, as we both have moved on and, and, and other places.
(42:37):
And it's been amazing to have that kind of experience.
Like when it comes down to it, we are both people, right. It's a job to do.
So So, yeah, I want to encourage our listeners to like to know that it's like
it's OK to push back if you have a different opinion.
Because, yeah, like you said, we're in a way like in this position to where
(42:59):
we feel like if we want to be liked, we have to be in agreement, just kind of go along.
And I actually had I think like years ago, I had a manager pretty much tell
me straight up that I just say yes to everything. thing.
And I marinated over that for a long, long time.
And he told me that it's like, we just never know what you're feeling,
(43:23):
but you know, you always just say yes to anything.
And it was a moment of reflection for me to kind of think like,
wow, I'm not really considering my needs.
I'm just automatically just saying yes to anything that they're asking.
And like, I've learned to identify fire over the years to be like,
okay, I, you know, give me some time to think about this.
(43:44):
Or like, I kind of allow that little bit of space.
Like I don't need to give an immediate answer, like right then and there.
Sometimes I'll be like, okay, I need like, I, I need a little bit of time to
work, to work through this and, you know, whatever the request is just to kind
of give myself a moment to, to whatever,
whatever that request is to kind of decide if I'm okay with doing it,
(44:06):
if I have time to complete that project,
what I need, maybe it's in order to complete that project on time.
And it's been immensely beneficial.
That's awesome. I love hearing that. And we have, I mean, it's,
I like to reiterate too, like,
maybe not reiterate, but basically state that we have the ability to pick and
(44:30):
engage with really amazing people in our world.
But there's also people out there that aren't fit to be in relationship with us.
And so, again, it's like, you know, if one is struggling with this and and having
some really not so great relationships,
like focus on the ones that are really bringing you up and really providing
(44:51):
the value and feeding your soul because they're out there.
And I think that's one of the greatest things that I've sort of acknowledged
in my single life is that I have built some amazing connections.
And then also like I've known people for most of my adult life and in the beginning
(45:13):
of my career that are still I'm very close with today.
And so I'm just, you know, as I look back, and I'm like, Oh,
my gosh, I did all these like codependent things.
And a lot of you know, I had a fair amount of difficult relationships.
But I can I can look and say, Oh, my gosh, if I look at this whole picture,
like and also what I've been doing for myself in my healing journey, it's like, no,
(45:36):
I I have friends and have really great relationships with people who are healthy,
that can communicate and allow me to be me and I feel comfortable and safe in their presence.
And we can do difficult conversations and we can.
You know, just be there for each other in all the ways, even at work, too.
(45:58):
I mean, I'm just so grateful. You know, I have a full-time job in addition to
what I do with my podcasts, and I'm so thankful for the incredible people that
I get to work with every day.
It's such a gift, and it's just, I think that we have these relationships.
Sometimes we, you know, can't see them or we are tied up in a relationship that's
(46:20):
maybe not so healthy, and so that's all work focusing on.
So choosing to look in a different place for things that are sustaining us is
really important as we navigate this complex issue.
Absolutely. I want to deviate just for a minute because I know we kind of touched
on emotional addictions briefly, and I kind of want to dive into that a little bit more.
(46:40):
Can you share some strategies for dealing with some of those emotional addictions
and how to maybe recognize when they're becoming a problem? them.
Do you have something specific? Is there a specific emotional addiction that
you're looking like a specific symptom of that?
(47:02):
I've seen a lot of folks struggle when they're in, and I think that I kind of
also, I've heard of this thing called having healthy boundaries also So with yourself,
and so for a lot of people who may be struggling, maybe with alcohol addictions,
or maybe shopping addictions, or food addictions, I feel like the really common thing.
(47:28):
To manifest when we're kind of unpacking like a lot of different trauma,
especially if we're navigating,
if we're navigating codependency, do you think that maybe a lot of people who
might be in a codependent relationship might be more apt to maybe struggle with
some of these additional addictions?
(47:51):
Yeah. I mean, I think as I'm hearing you, thanks for the clarification,
communication, like, you know, basically codependency is an emotional addiction.
It's a relationship addiction.
And so it's any kind of like you think about overeating or being an alcoholic
or an addict or shopping, you know, any of those things, like it's,
(48:14):
it's definitely an addiction, right?
It's something that is a cycle, it's unhealthy, and it really takes ownership
of the person sort of break that cycle.
And it's very easy to find a new addiction if you shut down the current addiction.
So I've had that personally with food and didn't really even know that I was doing that.
(48:38):
You know, it's like, oh, wait, I just did, I just, I just took this addiction
and just moved it over here. Okay, cool.
I think that one of the practices that I kind of have a daily practice that I do for myself.
And it's really for someone who's recovering in codependency.
I think it's really important to start with, in terms of a strategy,
(49:00):
really important for you to take time out of yourself for yourself every single
day, even if it's like 15 minutes.
And my process is, I mean, it can be, I know a lot of people have their own
sort of things, but a lot of codependents don't have like their own time carved out for themselves.
So So what I do is, and I like to share it, is I journal every day.
(49:22):
And it's literally like a page in a notebook, sort of what I'm feeling, what I'm going through.
But also I write it in an empowering way.
Like I'm really concerned about, like, let's say a meeting that I have or a
difficult conversation I have to have with a child or, you know, whatever.
I write that down. And then I actually spend time sort of uplifting myself,
(49:45):
maybe reparenting myself in a way that's like, hey, yes, this conversation will
be difficult. However, it may not be.
And also, this is really important conversation that we must have because we
love, you know, our child or we really respect, you know, whoever that I'm having
the conversation with at work. It's like.
(50:06):
We have to use our voices. We have to remind ourselves how important our voices are to you.
So I kind of use like one page in my notebook just to do that.
And then I write affirmations every day that I am worthy because the fundamental
issue of codependency is a lack of worthiness.
And so I have written I am worthy 21 times a day for the last five years.
(50:28):
So I think it's like something over like 40,000 times.
And so even when we can't technically tell ourselves
like like if we're struggling and we're
we're in the codependency it's like really hard
to like see our own worth right because we're so focused on
the other person but that routine that
(50:48):
rhythm has really started to seep its way into my psyche over time and so that
the fact that i start saying that i'm doing this because i am worthy you know
so i do a couple of the those are kind of like the two primary things that i
do in the morning and it's time just for me and i I am fully committed to that practice.
And so, yeah, then other things start to emerge, you know, like having a podcast
(51:12):
or having, you know, new hobbies or trying a dance class or whatever.
But really, really think that it's important to build the relationship with
self by carving out that individual time on a daily basis.
Yeah, for sure. And it's something that I'm always trying to work on.
I'm not great at it, but I'm getting better.
(51:34):
Or even if it's for 30 minutes. And for me, sometimes it's like reading a book before I go to bed.
Yes, yes. It also helps me go to sleep, so it's a win-win.
So I think for anyone who maybe not, might not realize that they're in a codependent
relationship or maybe they're starting to maybe realize it.
(51:57):
What advice or what steps can maybe some of our listeners take towards that
self-improvement and setting boundaries if they're kind of realizing that maybe
that relationship isn't entirely healthy? Yeah.
Yeah. I, I think one of the things that we neglect to do is we know something's not right. Right.
(52:19):
So we, we, I know for years personally, like just ignoring myself was a classic symptom. them.
And so I would say that, you know, listening, you know that your relationship isn't going well.
You know that there's something that hasn't been working and that needs to be fixed.
(52:40):
And quite frankly, you've probably been working very diligently to fix it.
I know from my perspective, I've worked very diligently to, even though it wasn't
as successful then, realizing that now.
But, you know, codependents are constantly looking to improve their relationships
(53:01):
around them or fix people to change whatever dynamic to improve their situation
to basically improve their safety. It's all about safety, too.
I'm not feeling good about myself.
I'm a codependent. I need to change this person's behavior because they're making me feel unsafe.
So I'm going to focus on fixing that person so that I can get that safety back
(53:23):
that I so long and desire.
So, it's really just taking a step outside of yourself. I kind of go back to
the idea of a therapist. I know there's so many different resources.
I know for me, like Al-Anon was a big deal.
Those are free groups that you can attend, specifically if you have a family
member who might have a drug or alcohol issue.
(53:44):
You can hire a therapist. I know there's better help out there.
Honestly, I don't think I'd be able to pull out of my own personal codependency
if I didn't have a third party helping me through the process and being able
to see things differently.
So in terms of your question about setting boundaries, I think that that strategy
of setting time aside for yourself every day so that you can start building
(54:07):
that muscle memory of how important and how worthy you are is incredibly helpful.
And probably that one of the simplest things that one person can do sort of
start taking control of their life. Beautifully said.
And I think it's been such an amazing discussion.
I've learned so much from you this past hour, and I really appreciate you joining me.
(54:28):
And it's been even more insightful for me to kind of learn more in depth about codependency.
And even though I kind of look back and realize some of those traits of myself,
especially when I was younger, I think this will be so informative and insightful for our listeners.
So I want to really take time to say thank you for joining me for today.
(54:51):
And it's such a beautiful conversation. And I learned so much from you.
And lastly, would you be able to maybe share Share with our listeners where
they can find you, follow you, learn more about what you do in your podcast.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so you can find me at unstuckonyou.com.
(55:12):
I'm also on Instagram and my podcast, Unstuck On You.
New episodes come out every two weeks on Tuesdays. I have a new one coming out every two weeks.
So it's a great way to stay connected if you're struggling with codependency
to learn some strategies to help you sort of take control of your life.
(55:32):
So, yeah, I'm loving it. It's a passion of mine. And Valerie,
you've been an amazing host. I really appreciate your thoughtful questions.
Music.
Music.
(00:08):
Joined by Lindsay Andrews, a certified integrative trauma coach who also has
her very own podcast called Unstuck on You.
In this episode, we'll be talking about different techniques such as therapy,
journaling, and ways to aid in healing when it comes to codependency.
Well, I really appreciate you joining me today. I was really intrigued by your background.
(00:31):
Love to learn a little bit more about you. And I'd love to learn more about
your journey with codependency and kind of how you began that process.
Yeah, yeah, no, I got started, gosh, I am a recovering codependent myself.
So really, this is a personal path for me and sort of my interest in codependency
(00:53):
was born out of self-discovery and just my own lessons when my relationships
weren't working quite the way I wanted them to in adulthood.
So I learned about codependency in my late 20s,
early 30s, and really kind of dove into it,
sort of wanting to better understand why I struggled with setting boundaries
(01:17):
and speaking up for myself and really struggling with how to have maybe the
relationship that I wanted.
So, yeah, I mean, it all started for me in childhood. You know, I had...
You know, some things that kind of created that dynamic for me to become a codependent.
And so, yeah, that's, you know, in a nutshell, kind of how it began on a personal path.
(01:42):
And then I'm a podcast host myself, and that's called Unstuck on You.
And I basically want to help other women who struggle with their own relationships
and want to break free from codependency so that they can and really live the
life that they're meant to live, you know, and really get to know who they are as individuals.
(02:03):
Absolutely. And I have a similar journey kind of starting off in my childhood
that kind of led into my early relationship.
I've been with my husband since I was 16. And definitely those early years were
honestly quite a bit of a struggle.
And I kind of brought in a lot of my childhood trauma.
So it took us many, many years to learn to kind of have a healthy relationship, so to speak.
(02:29):
I mean, of course, it wasn't that we loved each other any less or anything like that.
It's just I think, where we came from, both of us were each other's first and
like kind of like learning how to navigate that and how to have healthy boundaries.
And in my family, it's funny, one of my therapists had said that pretty much
boundaries were not non-existent. So I had to kind of learn to implement them
(02:52):
from basically the ground up.
And so, yeah, it takes many, many years. So I totally understand that it is a lot of work.
Can you tell me about maybe what maybe for you the most challenging aspect of
setting boundaries might have been and maybe how you overcame that?
Sure. Yeah. I mean, I think one of the foundational things of being a codependent
(03:18):
is that it really is the chronic neglect of self in order to gain approval,
love, validation, and self-identity through another person.
So that's basically what codependency is about.
When the whole focus is sort of outside yourself and sort of,
you know, developing these patterns of people pleasing,
(03:40):
it's really easy to kind of fall in the trap of the other person sort of catering to the other person.
So, you know, I think when I think about setting boundaries and how difficult
it was for me, I think that it just, it kind of goes back to that idea of,
(04:01):
you know, really not looking at myself and sort of looking within in terms of
what did I want in those relationships?
And how did I want to show up for myself?
Because I was really just looking outside of myself for all things to get that
validation and love. I thought that's what I was supposed to do.
So, I mean, I'm not sure if, I mean, I'm trying to think of a specific example.
(04:28):
I just think that that was kind of a chronic sort of symptom of codependency
for me was that difficulty in setting boundaries.
And so once I got a divorce, so I was married for 18 years and I got a divorce five years ago.
And once I got divorced, that's really what sort of that started the journey
(04:49):
for me and sort of understanding who I was as an individual and what I was, who I was.
I really had an identity crisis within myself because I felt like I really didn't
know myself for many, many years because I was obviously looking outside of
myself for my own validation.
So I think that once I started to get to know who I was and start to be curious
(05:15):
about myself and start developing my own hobbies and my own interests and my
own opinions about things,
that's when I started to develop some trust within myself.
And that's when I started to be able to create better boundaries for myself individually.
So it's a process. It's not easy.
(05:37):
And I certainly, certainly, I'm like looking back on all the years,
and I'm sure there were moments where I was very good at setting boundaries
in certain aspects of my life.
But But for the most part, it was a challenge for me.
Yeah, I can 100% relate to that.
And I know for me personally, early on, I was doing a lot of projecting on my
(05:59):
own insecurities and having these, of course, unrealistic expectations of what
a partner should give and provide.
And it's a lot of, well, if you love me, you will do X, Y, and Z,
right? Right. And so, yeah.
And then, and more, more recently, probably within the last,
probably like five or so years when.
(06:21):
We really kind of made a huge improvement and turnaround as far as that and
navigating our relationship.
It's been so much healthier.
And I think, of course, also age also helps. Absolutely.
It looks a little bit different than when we were in our early 20s.
But yeah, I definitely totally understand that.
(06:42):
How did you effectively learn to communicate your thoughts, feelings, and emotions?
Conditions. Once I sort of got out of my marriage, is that what you mean? Yeah.
Kind of like what was the process for you? I think maybe the turning point to
where you feel like I really have a lot of healthier feelings,
(07:03):
thoughts, and boundaries for myself.
Yeah. I mean, I would say once I got the divorce, I had already been seeing
a therapist at the time And I was making a weekly commitment to that.
And that was really, really crucial to my sort of having another person there
(07:24):
that could see and give me and provide me another perspective about how I was viewing the situation.
I think it's very, very challenging when you're in any kind of recovery.
It doesn't matter if you're a codependent or an alcoholic to be able to have
someone in your corner that can help you see things objectively.
(07:46):
And so I would say that was sort of maybe the turning point for me starting
to take control of my life in a positive way. And then I think over time.
You know, being single, you know, I'm a single mom, but it did allow me to explore different things.
(08:08):
So if I needed to have a difficult conversation at work, you know,
kind of like I got to a point where it was like, I know that me not saying anything
and using my voice, that's kind of like not an option anymore.
And so I was slowly, like I said, sort of building that trust within myself.
And, you know, ultimately, you know, codependents have very,
(08:31):
very low self-esteem, low self-worth.
And so my work really was on getting to know, getting to know and love myself.
And so, you know, that kind of charted the path for me to be more proactive
and taking control of my life and doing the things that I enjoy and spending
(08:53):
time with people that lifted me up.
I mean, it's so funny because I look back and I think, how in the world, like, how did I get here?
You know, and I'm not, I'm not, you know, we're human beings on this earth.
We're never going to ever have it figured out.
But when I look back just in these last five years, my relationships have changed.
I've changed in such a beautiful way. And so it is really a process.
(09:17):
And it's one that is just sounds simple by just showing up for yourself,
but really does take intentional focus and effort on the individual who wants
to change and make their life better.
Absolutely. And you brought up a really good point because I know,
for me, not even necessarily just like within my relationship is where I kind
(09:37):
of identified that I had issues with communicating boundaries,
especially like being, I was married pretty young and kind of coming out of
a toxic environment and kind of like being kind of pushed into the world.
And then it was just, it was like a huge learning process.
And I think it took so many years for me to realize it's like,
(09:59):
huh, this is how people should treat each other. This is how people should communicate.
And it took being outside of that bubble for me to kind of realize that,
wow, this is what healthy relationships look like.
This is what healthy boundaries look like.
And for so many years, especially as you mentioned, like in like a workplace environment,
(10:20):
it's really hard to communicate, especially if it's from a boss,
like different different boundaries that you might have and
especially for me I'm also an introvert
so it's it could be really really challenging
to communicate what you're needing without feeling like like that inside voice
is kind of like questioning like should I even say that I know like for me it's
(10:43):
something that I'm always sometimes even still working on today where like I
I kind of I'm second guessing myself if I maybe said or did something should I have not said that.
And so I feel like it's, it's definitely a learning process,
like as we continue to go to grow.
And yeah, like, I really feel like because of that, like feeling like kind of handicapped in a way,
(11:07):
when I was much younger, where many other people were first going to college
and getting their first jobs kind of going through that process,
like I was kind of not necessarily in fight or flight mode, but like kind of
just trying to like get by,
just trying to, just trying to like live each day.
And I feel like it probably wasn't until...
(11:29):
Probably more recently within the last five years or
so that I really have made like a
huge like turning point to where I just
feel comfortable just communicating boundaries with
folks because like kind of coming from an environment where we didn't even know
what those were I remember when I first heard my therapist talk about that I'm
(11:50):
like oh really I didn't I didn't know because I don't know anything else and
right and so it's just been a monumental impact on my life.
And it for sure, like just has improved my life like 100%.
It's challenging if you don't have, you know, good model for healthy relationships
(12:11):
or healthy partnership or friendships, or you haven't witnessed,
you know, a difficult conversation.
Maybe there was a lot of arguing in your, you know, childhood home,
or maybe there, I mean, there's all sorts of different dynamics.
You know, and we all experience a wide range of traumas.
Like we don't get out of childhood without some kind of trauma, right?
(12:35):
So like it makes it challenging if you don't have some of those really great
models so that you can be like, oh, well, this is how so-and-so did it.
I'm going to... So, you know, it really does kind of put you,
I would say, at a deficit, you know, in especially in some of your earlier relationships.
(12:55):
And I applaud you. I think that that's fantastic that you and your spouse have
been able to sort of grow and evolve together. That's not an easy thing.
And it sounds like you have really come to a great place of,
you know, sort of communication and kind of understanding each other's needs,
which is awesome. But like it just kind of.
(13:16):
Ever so important. I think that when we're victims, we feel victimized in childhood
from the things maybe we didn't get, that we forget when we're adults that we
actually have the opportunity to take responsibility for ourselves, right?
I think that's where I sat for a long time in my adult life was,
this is who I am. This is what I was dealt with.
(13:38):
And this is how I show up. And I didn't know another way.
So I think that we can have an opportunity to change that and really take control
about on conversations, who we choose to be with, who we choose not to be with.
That we are ultimately in control, even though even when we're in the heat of
(14:01):
maybe, you know, codependency or another type of situation, you might not feel
that way at the time, but we absolutely are.
And it's really up to us to change the narrative there.
For sure. Absolutely. I know for me, like there was a big period of time where
I was just feeling like, I don't want to say victim mentality,
but I was like very angry.
(14:22):
Like, wow, as I dealt this hand and kind of spent some years kind of navigating
that and kind of thinking back to where like, especially like growing up,
well, this is how a conflict resolution was navigated.
Like people were yelling at each other. This is how people resolve things.
And then I think honestly, just kind of as I kind of like got out into the world
(14:45):
and had different relationships
and kind of had different experiences, it kind of took me, took that,
honestly, for me to realize like, whoa, like there is a whole different way
like to navigate this and to kind of realize that like it wasn't a healthy example
and that I can change that.
(15:05):
And it definitely, yeah, it took a very, very long time to be able to do that.
And how would you, for any of our listeners who might be struggling with maybe
once they implement boundaries, how would you advise anyone who might maybe
be struggling with any obsessive thinking about other people's opinions?
(15:29):
Yeah, I mean, the most important opinion is the one that we have of ourselves.
And so super hard if you're struggling with the boundary setting,
if you don't have a high view of yourself. self.
You know, I interviewed a woman not too long ago on my podcast.
We talked about boundary basics.
And really, it's just starting small, you know.
(15:51):
And one of the most powerful things, which, you know, if you're on Instagram
or TikTok, you know, I'm sure you've come across this, you know,
in the self-help world, but it's basically like, no is a sentence.
And so, starting out with just saying no is a really powerful way in which you
can start setting boundaries because it is one word and you don't have to apologize
(16:14):
for it. You don't have to do anything.
I think we, because, you know, codependency and the boundaries and people pleasing
and worrying about obsessive worry about what everyone else thinks of us,
it's like they're going to have a bad view of us and we're wanting to control
that narrative of what they think of us.
But at the end of the day, it's really hurting us when we don't set those boundaries
(16:39):
and don't take care of us first.
And so, yeah, I mean, it sounds simple. And I wish I had a maybe more nuanced answer for you.
But yeah, I mean, starting off small with the things that, you know,
you feel like you can start with. Because kind of diving into some really heavy
boundary setting is that's that's that can be complicated, especially if you're struggling.
(17:00):
So I would say start small and play around with that and see how that feels.
Yeah, I've definitely heard like often that no is a complete sentence and I agree with that.
And I'll be honest, sometimes it's something I still kind of struggle with because
I feel like I need to like be like, no, but because, you know,
(17:23):
to kind of lessen the blow to that other person.
And I think maybe you can let me know what you think, but I feel like it might
be something that we just have to get comfortable with, I guess,
being uncomfortable by saying that.
Just kind of get used to it and be okay with it. It's a muscle. Yeah.
(17:45):
And I think, yeah, for sure, a lot of people, honestly, really do struggle with
that and implementing boundaries.
And I think especially in terms of codependency,
I think I read somewhere that I think it kind of stems for a lot of people to
where they're going to maybe lose that love or that friendship from that person
(18:09):
that they're afraid that they're going to maybe in some way jeopardize that relationship.
But in reality, a healthy relationship, assuming that relationship is healthy,
that person will understand and won't be offended or upset that you told them no.
So I think that's very well stated. Yeah, I agree with that.
(18:30):
And yes, it's fear of losing the relationship, fear of, I mean,
that's the ultimate fear, right, is saying no, and you feel like your relationship is at jeopardy.
And so, especially, you know, if it's caregiver, you know, someone that raised
you or was a primary caregiver to you as a child, I feel like that is even more of a complex situation.
(18:53):
And that's why, like, you know, holidays can be kind of challenging for a lot
of people because they don't want to say no. You know, it's definitely...
You know, it's, it's, it's a hard area. And, and so I agree with that.
I think that's well stated.
Yeah. It's interesting that you mentioned holidays for sure.
(19:13):
And that's something that's always been a little bit tricky,
especially being from like a family, like with, with like my,
my parents are, have been divorced and same thing, like for my husband.
So there's like, kind of like a, like a mixed family dynamic going on.
And so with each like holiday, it kind of comes up.
I'm always like afraid of like, am I going to disappoint someone?
(19:34):
If I, you know, if we end up deciding we're going to, we're going to do X,
Y, Z this year, or we're going to see so-and-so this day.
And we're going to see my, like my husband's family on this day or something like that.
And it's really, it's really tricky. Cause like, I don't want to like disappoint anyone.
And, but it's just like, at the same time, it's like, I got,
(19:56):
this is just honestly, it's going to how it's going to be.
And like, also, inevitably, I feel like we might end up disappointing someone.
And there may just not be anything we can really do about it.
And I, it's a hard crossroads to be just feeling like, okay,
I'm going to have to make a decision.
And inevitably, there's going to be someone who's disappointed.
(20:18):
And I think that also kind of helps navigate just kind of the reality of it.
Like no matter what decision I make, it's going to disappoint someone.
And so I may as well just make the right decision.
That's going to, that's going to work for me and, and just have to be okay with that.
Have to be okay with sometimes other people will be disappointed and ultimately
(20:41):
there's not much we can do about it.
And I feel like that applies sometimes with friendships or different responsibilities
that we might have going on.
So yeah, I definitely think that could be a tricky one.
Yeah, Valerie, I mean, I hear all the things you're saying, and it's always so tricky.
And that isn't just for codependence. I think everybody kind of has these people-pleasing traits.
(21:07):
I mean, there are varying degrees.
And I think one of the hardest things, though, and codependency is,
at least for me personally,
I took a lot of responsibility, whether or not that was intended for me,
but I took on and I thought I was taking on responsibility for everyone.
I felt like it was my responsibility to fix things. It was my responsibility to take care of things.
(21:33):
If there was a conflict, my responsibility to resolve that conflict, even if I wasn't even...
Part of the conflict itself. I just stepped in.
And I really, I think, harmed a lot of relationships because I took on that
role that wasn't meant for me.
And I think a foundational thing that is really important for people listening
(21:58):
if they struggle with codependency is allowing and being okay with other people
having their own feelings.
And that's been a big moment for me and that recognition that I'm not responsible
for everyone else's feelings.
And it is highly likely that I will do or say something that will upset someone,
(22:19):
even though my intention is, you know, I have my own values and I have my own things.
And And so I really, I think it's awesome that, you know, you're sort of like,
hey, this is what I need to do for me and my family and how I want to show up.
And it might ruffle some feathers or people might be upset.
(22:41):
But like at the end of the day, like they'll deal with it.
You know, they will figure it out. And therefore, like you're taking control
of your own decision. So I think that's really cool.
Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And I definitely understand like the role of feeling
like you have to fix things.
And I think that's part of something that I've been struggling with,
(23:03):
especially like since I was younger, I've always been like the child that kind
of just kind of goes along with everything.
And so when I kind of started breaking that dynamic and kind of pushing back,
it was a real shell shocker for a lot of people in my family.
And so being able to navigate that is definitely has been a process.
But yeah, as you said, at the end of the day, like, you know,
(23:27):
it's, you know, people are going to have to manage their own emotions and feelings over it.
And generally, like, it doesn't mean that they're gonna, you know,
even you might have a perceived feeling that they might love you less or something like that.
But generally, it's, it's a short lived, you know, moment, you know,
disappointment for the other person and life.
(23:47):
Right, right. I mean, it seems so simplistic, but I, you know,
really want to put some empathy out for people that might be struggling with this.
And because I have been in that position and felt like the victim and really
struggled with what to do with, you know, really, to me felt like really, really big things.
(24:09):
And it was a, it was a hard struggle to get through.
And I still struggle with with things with with with relationships, setting boundaries.
And, you know, it's always the takeaway isn't, oh, my God, I did that wrong.
I shouldn't have said that. Or I think I've upset someone. It's like,
oh, my gosh, what did I learn from this?
(24:30):
If it wasn't 100 percent success, well, what did I learn?
And stepping back and asking yourself that question, because our brains are
naturally really wired, right, to like go to the negative and think about all
the things that we completely sucked at. Like, oh my God, I can't even believe I said that.
And at the end of the day, we might have said like 80% of the conversation in
(24:52):
setting that boundary might have been really, really positive and we made a
lot of great progress and momentum, but yet we still choose to focus on the negative.
So I highly recommend sort of, you know, what did I learn in taking that approach?
Because yeah, there might be some negative aspects to setting a boundary that
you're like, oh my gosh, I can't believe.
But also, I said something this time when I normally don't say anything.
(25:17):
Or I was in an uncomfortable place and my insides were screaming to like leave and I left.
And like, how proud am I of myself for leaving?
And I think that's also another big thing. It's like our bodies,
our insides, whether it's the, you know, the nudges or maybe an upset stomach
or whatever, like they're talking to us all the time.
(25:40):
So, you know, listening to yourself when you have a feeling about,
you know, something not right or, you know, you're, I don't know.
I just think that that's also another really important thing to,
you know, listen to yourself.
So, yeah, I would, I mean, those are kind of my thoughts around that.
(26:00):
Absolutely. Yeah. And I love that you mentioned our bodies are just so perceptive,
even sometimes more so than like cognitively we're dealing with a situation.
And it's something that I've kind of noticed maybe like more recently as well
is that my stomach's like turning or I just feel like maybe extra tired.
(26:20):
Like my body's like telling me like there's something wrong or and different things like that.
I'm learning to kind of be more aware that it's not just like necessarily just
like a cognitive function, but our body reacts to the different stimulator that
are going on around us as well. Yeah, absolutely.
So with that said, moving kind of
into I know we live in a society that it places a lot of pressure on us.
(26:45):
How do you think that maybe society perpetuates codependent behavior and how
can we maybe work on changing that?
Wow, that's an incredible question.
Gosh, how does society perpetuate codependency? Well, I mean, I almost feel like,
(27:07):
you know, at least my feeds and social media are all kind of promoting sort
of this independent culture, which is interesting.
And so I feel like because I've been in this sort of independent space,
that's more what I sort of pay attention to and see more.
So I feel like a lot of the sort of self-help society sort of leaning more towards that.
(27:32):
I do think that in terms of codependency itself, I think that that word,
it gets thrown around a lot.
Like it's, you know, you're so codependent, you know, and without really,
and that's basically like, hey, you're so needy. Like that's the translation
(27:53):
that I make. You're so codependent, you're so needy.
And so I don't, I think people throw that around a lot and kind of use that as a, you know, a label.
And I think that codependency is actually quite layered and complex.
And it's challenging to articulate what it is and how it shows up in relationships.
(28:16):
So I don't know how to answer that question other than to say that, you know, ultimately.
It's society does have an aspect in all the things you think about just,
you know, the patriarchal, you know, influences,
you know, certainly women in this situation are often the codependents,
(28:37):
women who don't use their voices, women that are taught to stay quiet and sort
of go along and be, you know, sort of the dutiful wife.
And so I think that that certainly has perpetuated.
And also, as you know, women have, you know, since the 70s, 60s,
70s, 80s, women going into the workplace, and then also doing all the other
(28:58):
things that they customarily did before they entered the workforce.
I mean, it's just like you add on all of these sort of layers to it.
It gets complex to unpack.
So ultimately, you know, that relationship with yourself.
I mean, I always laugh when people are like, oh, you just need to have a relationship
with yourself. You just need to love yourself.
But no, seriously, like that is ultimately how we treat ourselves.
(29:23):
I mean, we're with ourselves for the rest of our lives. People come, people go.
But it really, really is important to be compassionate and understanding and
forgiving and loving to ourselves.
And so, you know, I'm glad that there's a lot of things out,
(29:44):
you know, in social media and all these self-help books out there.
And there's a lot of people doing amazing work to help perpetuate and sort of
promote this idea that we really do need to focus on ourselves a little bit
to show up better for our relationships.
Absolutely. Very well spoken and well said. And it kind of made me think of
(30:06):
when my husband and I first got together, we both came from a lot of trauma.
So I think in a way, like, it was very much a codependent relationship between
both of us on both sides until a lot until we really spent that time to really work on ourselves.
Ourselves and basically it was kind
(30:27):
of like discovering like who we were like
after like we've kind of navigated and
unpacked all of that and it's definitely
not an easy thing and even though we've been together so long i i don't know
if i i can't i can't recommend it i i always will advocate that if if given
the opportunity to work on ourselves before entering a relationship I mean, it can be done for sure.
(30:54):
And I've always told people, I'm like, throughout our marriage, it has not been easy.
It's been a lot of tears, a lot of hard work, definitely not easy,
you know, versus if we were all like on our own and navigating our own.
Because in a relationship, I feel like we're navigating through each other's trauma.
(31:17):
And so it makes it a lot more difficult.
But yeah, I always like to be transparent with people about that and definitely
think it makes a big difference.
Well, I think that it's important to state that regardless if you are in a relationship
or not, Like you don't have to not be like it's not a requirement to not be
(31:41):
in a relationship to work on yourself. Right.
And so you can't. I think what becomes challenging is when if you're a codependent,
you're in a codependent relationship and that dysfunctional pattern exists between the couple.
It becomes ever so challenging to step outside and start developing and nurturing
(32:02):
your own self-identity and respect because the codependent is so focused on the other person.
And so I certainly think it's possible.
I've spoken with people who have, you know, had these relationship challenges,
just as you're stating, Valerie, and they have been able to navigate those together
(32:24):
successfully. It's hard work.
For me, it just so happened to work out.
I didn't want to end my marriage, but I think that it got to a place where it just made sense to.
And because of that, it has afforded me the opportunity to be able to.
(32:45):
Dive in and sort of like really allow that time to focus on myself and get to
know who I am as a person and what I want and establish my own values.
And that's kind of the thing.
It's like, oh, who am I? When you strip everything away, like, who am I?
How do I want to show up? And so, yeah, I appreciate you sharing your perspective
(33:07):
in your relationship and how you've been able to navigate through because I
don't think it's, you know,
oh, you have to do the work and like be like totally like healed on the inside
out before you can be ready for a partner.
I think also like our partners, there's, there's going to be things that trigger
us in our relationships.
And that's kind of cool too, because we get to work on other things that we
(33:31):
couldn't do as a single person. So So kudos to you.
Thank you. Yeah, you actually bring up a great point as far as thinking about
triggers, because there are definitely still some times where those still happen.
And I'm much better able to recognize that than I did before.
And yeah, I definitely think it takes, and especially when you're both like
(33:56):
suffering from a lot of baggage and trauma in order to make it work.
I think for sure, like both parties have to be willing and wanting to make that relationship work.
And it's like a lot of reflection on the self and working on the self and then,
within that relationship and how does that translate into the rest of the relationship?
(34:19):
So yeah, I love that you mentioned that.
And it kind of is something that I've been thinking about. out,
is there a line between like maybe a healthy dependency in a relationship and how,
how maybe it might translate when, when does it cross the line in the codependency?
(34:40):
Yeah. I mean, there's certainly a line, I mean, in terms of having,
I would say a healthy relationship versus it becoming not healthy.
And so I would say there's several things like.
Maybe signs if it's becoming unhealthy would be like sort of overinvestment in the relationship.
(35:06):
Like if one party is maybe, you know, too invested than the other.
I found it fascinating that you said you and your husband were kind of codependent
on each other, which that's like another topic because I would love to talk
to you about that separately.
But usually it's been my experience that there's
sort of a codependent like enabler and then there's someone
(35:28):
on the other side the partner that is you
know kind of the one you know they they
could have a mental illness they can have an addiction issue or whatever but
it's sort of that that polarity if you will so that enabling can happen but
I would say like healthy dependence is pretty I mean I would say it's pretty
(35:50):
obvious because you're feeling healthy.
If you are, you know, jealous or possessive, or you're neglecting your own self-care
because you want to please the other person to maintain the relationship.
If you're avoiding like conflicts. So, you know, we know that avoiding disagreements
and conflicts that, you know, that's a red flag, right?
(36:14):
For something that's kind of crossing the line.
So fearing that, you know, we just talked about this, like any disagreements,
will lead to rejection or abandonment.
We talked a little bit about the lack of boundaries.
Excessive giving is another one. So just, you know, going to great lengths to
please the partner and often at the expense of their own needs and desires.
(36:36):
So, I mean, those are just kind of a few things that's like,
okay, like you are clearly like stepping over the line, I would say,
of healthy dependence because you can see that like it's kind of lopsided, right?
Like usually Usually one person is sort of behaving in this way.
And the other person I would say is maybe more of the taker. That is so true.
(36:59):
And do you think when it comes to codependency, maybe outside relationships,
how can we maybe navigate that if it could be like a parent and child or maybe a friendship?
I feel like codependency is a topic we hear more when it comes to relationships,
(37:20):
but do you think it's possible to kind of establish a codependency to be established
in other different parts of our lives?
100%. 100%. Yeah, it can happen at work.
And what happens, the codependent, it sounds interesting, and this is where
psychology comes into this, but, you know, codependents often form,
(37:44):
you know, this in childhood.
And so, you know, and it's due to the relationship between that child and the
caregiver, the primary caregivers.
And so a lot of times what a codependent will do as an adult,
if they haven't worked on their own healing, is they could put a boss into sort
(38:05):
of a primary caregiver role.
So, okay, I'm going to work. This is my boss.
But they start treating the boss like the parent.
And so that's a pretty common thing. Same with even spouses.
I know you were talking more specifically outside of the a relationship,
like other relationships that the codependent or recovering codependent might have.
(38:28):
But like, you know, it's pretty common to kind of put the other person as like
in a role of a caregiver and kind of recreate that situation because that is
what we're familiar with.
We're familiar with, you know,
walking on eggshells. We're familiar with arguing and having conflict.
(38:51):
And so we find people that sort of emulate that caregiver child dynamic that
we experience in childhood.
Oh, absolutely. I'm glad that you mentioned that because and it's something
that I had been thinking about previously.
And I think that it's so common for a lot of people and even not even just like
(39:12):
for me and my relationship, but I think it's so common to kind of replay a.
And kind of, I guess, act out those different scenarios that maybe we would
have had experienced with a parent if we haven't maybe like worked on resolving
your healing that into, into our relationship.
(39:35):
And like, for me, like also a long, long time ago, like I would see like bosses
and managers as like, Oh, like an authority figure,
kind of, of kind of like a parenting figure in a way to where I felt like I couldn't speak up.
(39:55):
And yes, they're my boss, but also I have expectations of them as a boss.
They should be treating me with decency and respect.
And just because they have that title doesn't give them that permission.
And I should be able to voice my thoughts and stuff. So I can definitely see
how that might present itself in the workplace because it can be a definite
(40:18):
struggle, especially when it's a person in power that you're working with.
Yeah. I love that you said sort of authority figures.
I think this is where the codependent struggles the most is there when there
is a perceived sense of authority, then there's sort of this wanting to please,
wanting to be liked sort of thing that comes along with the relationship.
(40:39):
Relationship and yeah that that
can get someone kind of in trouble personally because
you're constantly on a hamster wheel of people pleasing and it can be really
damaging I spent many years in a situation that you know where I had a supervisor
that was very challenging to work with And,
(41:02):
but I, I complicated it even more because I was adding that sort of,
I was looking at this person with that sort of lens.
And so it was kind of showing up in some not so healthy ways because I wanted
to be liked and I wanted to be, I wanted to belong.
And I, I did a lot of extra work to please and to be accepted and to be acknowledged.
(41:29):
And and then it it's really important
that we find good people to surround ourselves with you know like I think it's
like now I look back and I'm just like oh my gosh like that should have been
over in like a week you know that should have been and like if I were to show
up in that same situation now I would be like yeah this isn't gonna work out
so it's it's a process it's a.
(41:52):
You know, realize that there are certain people out there that are not good
to be around, you know, and so having that ability to say, no,
this isn't for me and walking away.
It takes time if you've if you've often struggled with that.
Yeah. And kind of thinking about it for me, I think it's so important to note
that, especially in the workplace, it comes down to being that relationship is transactional.
(42:16):
I have had some really great positive experiences with managers that have really
advocated for me over the years.
And I've just been so immensely thankful for that.
I've like learned so much and we've sometimes continued friendship,
like, you know, as we both have moved on and, and, and other places.
(42:37):
And it's been amazing to have that kind of experience.
Like when it comes down to it, we are both people, right. It's a job to do.
So So, yeah, I want to encourage our listeners to like to know that it's like
it's OK to push back if you have a different opinion.
Because, yeah, like you said, we're in a way like in this position to where
(42:59):
we feel like if we want to be liked, we have to be in agreement, just kind of go along.
And I actually had I think like years ago, I had a manager pretty much tell
me straight up that I just say yes to everything. thing.
And I marinated over that for a long, long time.
And he told me that it's like, we just never know what you're feeling,
(43:23):
but you know, you always just say yes to anything.
And it was a moment of reflection for me to kind of think like,
wow, I'm not really considering my needs.
I'm just automatically just saying yes to anything that they're asking.
And like, I've learned to identify fire over the years to be like,
okay, I, you know, give me some time to think about this.
(43:44):
Or like, I kind of allow that little bit of space.
Like I don't need to give an immediate answer, like right then and there.
Sometimes I'll be like, okay, I need like, I, I need a little bit of time to
work, to work through this and, you know, whatever the request is just to kind
of give myself a moment to, to whatever,
whatever that request is to kind of decide if I'm okay with doing it,
(44:06):
if I have time to complete that project,
what I need, maybe it's in order to complete that project on time.
And it's been immensely beneficial.
That's awesome. I love hearing that. And we have, I mean, it's,
I like to reiterate too, like,
maybe not reiterate, but basically state that we have the ability to pick and
(44:30):
engage with really amazing people in our world.
But there's also people out there that aren't fit to be in relationship with us.
And so, again, it's like, you know, if one is struggling with this and and having
some really not so great relationships,
like focus on the ones that are really bringing you up and really providing
(44:51):
the value and feeding your soul because they're out there.
And I think that's one of the greatest things that I've sort of acknowledged
in my single life is that I have built some amazing connections.
And then also like I've known people for most of my adult life and in the beginning
(45:13):
of my career that are still I'm very close with today.
And so I'm just, you know, as I look back, and I'm like, Oh,
my gosh, I did all these like codependent things.
And a lot of you know, I had a fair amount of difficult relationships.
But I can I can look and say, Oh, my gosh, if I look at this whole picture,
like and also what I've been doing for myself in my healing journey, it's like, no,
(45:36):
I I have friends and have really great relationships with people who are healthy,
that can communicate and allow me to be me and I feel comfortable and safe in their presence.
And we can do difficult conversations and we can.
You know, just be there for each other in all the ways, even at work, too.
(45:58):
I mean, I'm just so grateful. You know, I have a full-time job in addition to
what I do with my podcasts, and I'm so thankful for the incredible people that
I get to work with every day.
It's such a gift, and it's just, I think that we have these relationships.
Sometimes we, you know, can't see them or we are tied up in a relationship that's
(46:20):
maybe not so healthy, and so that's all work focusing on.
So choosing to look in a different place for things that are sustaining us is
really important as we navigate this complex issue.
Absolutely. I want to deviate just for a minute because I know we kind of touched
on emotional addictions briefly, and I kind of want to dive into that a little bit more.
(46:40):
Can you share some strategies for dealing with some of those emotional addictions
and how to maybe recognize when they're becoming a problem? them.
Do you have something specific? Is there a specific emotional addiction that
you're looking like a specific symptom of that?
(47:02):
I've seen a lot of folks struggle when they're in, and I think that I kind of
also, I've heard of this thing called having healthy boundaries also So with yourself,
and so for a lot of people who may be struggling, maybe with alcohol addictions,
or maybe shopping addictions, or food addictions, I feel like the really common thing.
(47:28):
To manifest when we're kind of unpacking like a lot of different trauma,
especially if we're navigating,
if we're navigating codependency, do you think that maybe a lot of people who
might be in a codependent relationship might be more apt to maybe struggle with
some of these additional addictions?
(47:51):
Yeah. I mean, I think as I'm hearing you, thanks for the clarification,
communication, like, you know, basically codependency is an emotional addiction.
It's a relationship addiction.
And so it's any kind of like you think about overeating or being an alcoholic
or an addict or shopping, you know, any of those things, like it's,
(48:14):
it's definitely an addiction, right?
It's something that is a cycle, it's unhealthy, and it really takes ownership
of the person sort of break that cycle.
And it's very easy to find a new addiction if you shut down the current addiction.
So I've had that personally with food and didn't really even know that I was doing that.
(48:38):
You know, it's like, oh, wait, I just did, I just, I just took this addiction
and just moved it over here. Okay, cool.
I think that one of the practices that I kind of have a daily practice that I do for myself.
And it's really for someone who's recovering in codependency.
I think it's really important to start with, in terms of a strategy,
(49:00):
really important for you to take time out of yourself for yourself every single
day, even if it's like 15 minutes.
And my process is, I mean, it can be, I know a lot of people have their own
sort of things, but a lot of codependents don't have like their own time carved out for themselves.
So So what I do is, and I like to share it, is I journal every day.
(49:22):
And it's literally like a page in a notebook, sort of what I'm feeling, what I'm going through.
But also I write it in an empowering way.
Like I'm really concerned about, like, let's say a meeting that I have or a
difficult conversation I have to have with a child or, you know, whatever.
I write that down. And then I actually spend time sort of uplifting myself,
(49:45):
maybe reparenting myself in a way that's like, hey, yes, this conversation will
be difficult. However, it may not be.
And also, this is really important conversation that we must have because we
love, you know, our child or we really respect, you know, whoever that I'm having
the conversation with at work. It's like.
(50:06):
We have to use our voices. We have to remind ourselves how important our voices are to you.
So I kind of use like one page in my notebook just to do that.
And then I write affirmations every day that I am worthy because the fundamental
issue of codependency is a lack of worthiness.
And so I have written I am worthy 21 times a day for the last five years.
(50:28):
So I think it's like something over like 40,000 times.
And so even when we can't technically tell ourselves
like like if we're struggling and we're
we're in the codependency it's like really hard
to like see our own worth right because we're so focused on
the other person but that routine that
(50:48):
rhythm has really started to seep its way into my psyche over time and so that
the fact that i start saying that i'm doing this because i am worthy you know
so i do a couple of the those are kind of like the two primary things that i
do in the morning and it's time just for me and i I am fully committed to that practice.
And so, yeah, then other things start to emerge, you know, like having a podcast
(51:12):
or having, you know, new hobbies or trying a dance class or whatever.
But really, really think that it's important to build the relationship with
self by carving out that individual time on a daily basis.
Yeah, for sure. And it's something that I'm always trying to work on.
I'm not great at it, but I'm getting better.
(51:34):
Or even if it's for 30 minutes. And for me, sometimes it's like reading a book before I go to bed.
Yes, yes. It also helps me go to sleep, so it's a win-win.
So I think for anyone who maybe not, might not realize that they're in a codependent
relationship or maybe they're starting to maybe realize it.
(51:57):
What advice or what steps can maybe some of our listeners take towards that
self-improvement and setting boundaries if they're kind of realizing that maybe
that relationship isn't entirely healthy? Yeah.
Yeah. I, I think one of the things that we neglect to do is we know something's not right. Right.
(52:19):
So we, we, I know for years personally, like just ignoring myself was a classic symptom. them.
And so I would say that, you know, listening, you know that your relationship isn't going well.
You know that there's something that hasn't been working and that needs to be fixed.
(52:40):
And quite frankly, you've probably been working very diligently to fix it.
I know from my perspective, I've worked very diligently to, even though it wasn't
as successful then, realizing that now.
But, you know, codependents are constantly looking to improve their relationships
(53:01):
around them or fix people to change whatever dynamic to improve their situation
to basically improve their safety. It's all about safety, too.
I'm not feeling good about myself.
I'm a codependent. I need to change this person's behavior because they're making me feel unsafe.
So I'm going to focus on fixing that person so that I can get that safety back
(53:23):
that I so long and desire.
So, it's really just taking a step outside of yourself. I kind of go back to
the idea of a therapist. I know there's so many different resources.
I know for me, like Al-Anon was a big deal.
Those are free groups that you can attend, specifically if you have a family
member who might have a drug or alcohol issue.
(53:44):
You can hire a therapist. I know there's better help out there.
Honestly, I don't think I'd be able to pull out of my own personal codependency
if I didn't have a third party helping me through the process and being able
to see things differently.
So in terms of your question about setting boundaries, I think that that strategy
of setting time aside for yourself every day so that you can start building
(54:07):
that muscle memory of how important and how worthy you are is incredibly helpful.
And probably that one of the simplest things that one person can do sort of
start taking control of their life. Beautifully said.
And I think it's been such an amazing discussion.
I've learned so much from you this past hour, and I really appreciate you joining me.
(54:28):
And it's been even more insightful for me to kind of learn more in depth about codependency.
And even though I kind of look back and realize some of those traits of myself,
especially when I was younger, I think this will be so informative and insightful for our listeners.
So I want to really take time to say thank you for joining me for today.
(54:51):
And it's such a beautiful conversation. And I learned so much from you.
And lastly, would you be able to maybe share Share with our listeners where
they can find you, follow you, learn more about what you do in your podcast.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah, so you can find me at unstuckonyou.com.
(55:12):
I'm also on Instagram and my podcast, Unstuck On You.
New episodes come out every two weeks on Tuesdays. I have a new one coming out every two weeks.
So it's a great way to stay connected if you're struggling with codependency
to learn some strategies to help you sort of take control of your life.
(55:32):
So, yeah, I'm loving it. It's a passion of mine. And Valerie,
you've been an amazing host. I really appreciate your thoughtful questions.
Music.
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