APWU Tentative Agreement: What you need to know and how to vote

Listen to the latest episode of our podcast where APWU President Mark Dimondstein talks all about the new tentative agreement. He invites IRD Charlie Cash to talk about the big picture, Sec-Treas Liz Powell to talk about the ratification timeline, and APWU Craft Directors Lamont Brooks, Idowu Balogun, Michael Foster, and Arrion Brown to talk about the pieces that will affect workers in each craft. 

Episode Transcript

(00:08):
Welcome APWU Family.
This is President MarkDimondstein, with our podcast
Communicating with You, the Member.
Welcome one and all, and I wanna remindall of you before we get started that
you can download the podcast on allstreaming services, including YouTube,
Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or whereveryou choose to listen to your podcast.

(00:32):
You can also find episodeson our website, apwu.org.
So listen, there's a lotof things swirling around.
The threats to the public postalservice are very real and ongoing.
We've had a lot of activityand action around that.
We also know that our retirementsystems under FERS are under

(00:54):
extreme assault by this Congress.
Many of you have been makingphone calls to your senators.
We want you to , keep that up,demanding that the supplement, for the
FERS employees, the social Securitysupplement, so people can retire at
the minimum retirement age and get thatextra supplement until they hit 62,
is under threat from this Congress.

(01:16):
Get out there and fight for yourown, benefits and your rights.
And in this case, you're, , , you'rereally, your retirement security and
what you've earned to be able to retirewhen you've earned it, rather than have
to work another four or five years.
But that's not the mainsubject of the podcast today.
We're gonna focus today on the big news.

(01:37):
The important news.
We think exciting news.
That we now have reached, and most of youprobably know this by now, a new tentative
agreement for a new union contractbetween the American Postal Workers Union
and the United States Postal Service.
So on this, podcast today, we'regonna focus on the changes.

(01:57):
A little bit about the contextwe were negotiating in.
I've invited Brother CharlieCash, our Industrial Relations
Director, who was our chiefspokesperson during our negotiations.
Very tough, long process.
Kept us all together, was the glue ofthe whole thing, what he and his, staff.
And later in the episode we'll also hearfrom the craft directors of the APWU,

(02:19):
who headed up their craft negotiations.
so we hope to share a lot ofgood information with you.
Look, this is important stuff.
Our contract covers the hours, wages.
Well, let's start with wages.
The wages and benefits and theconditions of employment of all of us.
200,000 postal workers addthat up with our families.

(02:40):
That affects almost a million workers.
Think about that.
This is the largest bargainingunit of any contract negotiations
in the country this year.
So this affects workersfar beyond, postal workers.
So.
with that, let, besideswelcoming you, brother.
Cash.
Thanks for taking thetime to, join us, today.
But before I get to a few questions forCharlie, let me just share a little bit

(03:05):
of the mile high view of negotiations.
.National negotiations have never been easy in the past.
They weren't easy now, and they'renever gonna be easy in the future.
We do not negotiate with ourselves.
We're negotiating with management.
They have their goals, we haveour goals, and it's a battle.

(03:28):
And it's always been a battle.
It always will be a battle.
I've honestly shared with the members,over the last few months that we had
some unique challenges this time.
Our sister union, the NALC, and this isnot a criticism, it's just a fact, took
a very long time to finish their process.
That slowed down to someextent our, our process.

(03:50):
but even more important than that,because when I say slow it down, I just
wanna remind everybody, our contractexpired last September 20th, 2024.
So this is eight to nine monthsafter the expiration of the contract.
Not unusual to go a little longer,but usually it doesn't take
this long unless we end up inan interest arbitration process.

(04:12):
And we'll talk about that soon.
So here we are taking a long time,but what fundamentally affected
us this time, was the election inNovember that changed negotiations,
it changed, management hardened up.
We also know we started to negotiatein a climate where the federal workers

(04:35):
and federal unions are under extremeassault by this administration.
Contracts have been ripped up onthe federal side, actually with
an executive order, probably theone biggest union busting event.
Single event of modern history where amillion of our brothers and sisters in

(04:55):
the federal side, unionized workers,are now deprived of the right to even
be in a union and therefore, obviouslycannot negotiate and enforce contracts.
Steward's time is under attack theright of you as a worker to see
your steward to deal with disputesand complaints are under attack

(05:16):
in the, in the federal sector.
And then a third ingredient isthat the Postmaster General Louis
DeJoy resigned and we have a newpostmaster general coming in.
Coming from none other than FedEx,if that's not the fox guarding the
hen house, I don't know what is.
An anti-union manager, when he was atWaste Management, all of these ingredients

(05:40):
made it really incumbent upon us asyour leaders to get a contract secured
and in hand protecting all the greatgains of the past, making some real
progress and giving up no concessions.
And we think we have achieved thosegoals and a very difficult environment.

(06:00):
And when you weigh out what happenedwith this contract, what it represents,
we all have to look at it in the contextof the times, the unprecedented and end
dangerous times that, that we are in.
Charlie, could you quickly sharewith the listeners who's on the
National Negotiating Committee andhow that developed and because I

(06:22):
want people to understand we signeda tentative agreement on June 2nd.
The National Negotiating Committeehas unanimously supported it.
And then we bought in the rank and filebargaining Advisory Committee on June 4th.
So if you could quickly share who makesup the National Negotiating Committee
and also the role of the rank andfile bargaining committee as well.

(06:44):
And then we'll get into someof the specifics of what was
achieved and how we got there.
Hey, thanks, Mark.
It's a, it's a pleasure to be herewith you today and to be able to talk
to the members about the, our newcontract and, and what we're, what
we're gonna be gaining in this contract.
I'm excited about it and, and again,excited to be here to, to talk about this.

(07:07):
So, you asked me about the, theNational Negotiations Committee.
the National NegotiationsCommittee consists of, members
of our executive board.
It consists of, of, you thepresident as the, chief negotiator.
It consists of Sister Debbie Szeredy,our Executive Vice president.
I am included on that, the Director ofIndustrial Relations, and I'm also the

(07:29):
chief spokesperson on the committee.
And then of course, it involvesthe four, craft directors.
We have Brother Michael Foster forthe motor vehicle services division.
We have, brother I bganfor the maintenance craft.
Division, Lamont Brooks for theClerk Division, and Arrion Brown

(07:52):
for the support services division.
So that is your, your core constitutionalNational Negotiations Committee.
And then of course, using yourpresidential authority, you
added, secretary, treasurer SisterElizabeth Powell as as, as a member.
And, and technically, as, not necessarilya voting member, but somebody who has a

(08:12):
lot of history and a lot of experience.
at the APWUU, to give her her insight,with the National Negotiations Committee.
And again, each person, on the NationalNegotiations Committee, has a, has a role.
we, the, the committee as a whole getstogether, talks about strategy, initially
talks about what we want to try toobtain, for all the, all the members

(08:36):
under the general articles and under thewages and benefits and things like that.
And then, each person, dealswith, with very specific things.
you dealt with some ofthe financial stuff.
I dealt with some of the, thegeneral articles and the craft.
the craft officers, were responsiblefor negotiating and putting
together the negotiating teams fortheir own individual divisions.

(08:59):
And, and so that was basicallythe, the negotiations committee.
throughout this process we got together.
We met regularly.
We talked about how things were going.
we talked about where we wanted toget to if we were getting there.
And you know, of course, like back inSeptember we talked about stop the clock

(09:19):
and agreed to stop the clock with thepostal service to continue negotiations.
So it's truly a team effort of the,negotiations committee, working
together to negotiate this agreement.
Now, the rank and file bargainingadvisory committee, that is the
committee that is appointed.

(09:41):
Each member of the executive board gets toselect and appoint one member to the rank
and file bargaining advisory committee.
And they are the committee that gets tocome in, they, will review the tentative
agreement once we have reached the, theone single tentative agreement, which,
includes everything that was negotiated,it is then brought together you as the

(10:07):
chief negotiator and the postal serviceschief negotiator, agree to everything
and call out the tentative agreement.
They get to come in, they get to reviewit, and they get to determine whether or
not is a contract worthy of being sentout for ratification to give the members
the opportunity to have a say and vote ofwhether or not they want to accept, the

(10:28):
tentative agreement and the rank and file.
committee will also, oversee theratification, balloting and voting,
they are in charge of that process.
And you're gonna hear throughoutthis conversation to sit there and
use the full term of the rank andfile bargaining advisory committee.
I'll be honest with you, it's alittle, it's a little long of a term.

(10:49):
So you'll also hear me, refer tothat oftentimes as just the rank
and file, and things like that.
But they're a member that they'rea committee that is, that consists
of members from the field.
This, this, committee consisted oflocal presidents, local craft directors,
some local vice presidents, and evenjust, just, members in good standing

(11:10):
were on this committee this time.
And so, it was a, it was a goodcommittee, good hardworking committee
of people who are knowledgeable andexperienced in the union and have
their their hand on the pulse and theheartbeat of the membership out there.
Great, great.
And I know you and I, Charlie, bothfeel the, and, and, and we really
appreciate the hard work of thecommittee, of the negotiating committee.

(11:35):
Our negotiations werefar more than committee.
We had assistant craft directors involved.
We had national business agentsaround the country involved.
We had, staff at headquarterslevel that we couldn't do this
without the, deeply involved.
So deep appreciation to all 'em.
I know it's invisible work to mostof the people listening in, but we,

(11:57):
we couldn't have achieved a tentativeagreement without other work.
But the, the most appreciation beforeI go into some of the details of the
tentative agreement is to you, the member.
Because without you, management wouldn'thave to come to the table at all.
They don't want to come tothe table and negotiate.

(12:17):
They come to the table and negotiate'cause they have to because we
are a union and we're only aunion because of all of you.
So in that sense, every one of you was atthe bargaining table and your influence
and impact and input through negotiations,coming through your locals, coming through
your state meetings, coming to nationalconventions about your goals and your

(12:40):
desires and your dreams, was you sittingat the table, 'cause we take all that
very seriously about the direction.
and, and we take the guidanceand direction from our national
conventions very seriously.
So hats off to all of you.
Whatever we've achieved and wethink we've agree, achieved a very
solid agreement for these times.

(13:01):
It's because you, we do the best we can.
And as I said earlier, we'renot negotiating with ourselves.
No contract's gonna beeverything we deserve.
No contract's gonna be perfect, but theachievement is because of all of you.
Hats off and deep appreciation.
So let me get into some of the highlightsand the summary of the economic packaging.

(13:24):
And Charlie, if you can take itfrom there, and talk about some of
the significant, work rule changes.
So first off, it's a three yearcontract retroactive to September
21st, 2024 through September 20, 2027.
Each one of those years willhave a general wage increase

(13:47):
back to November 16th, 2024.
So it will be retroactive is1.3%, November 15th, 2025, 1.4%.
November 14th, 2026, 1.5%.
The PSEs who do not get COLA, andwe'll talk about that a little more in

(14:09):
the question of, COLA will receive anadditional 1% each year, so it'll be
2.3, 2.4, and 2.5 for those three years.
There will be an extra 50 centsfor the PSEs after 26 weeks and our
PSEs in the four hour RMPOs, theremotely managed post offices are

(14:31):
only PSEs who are not covered by theautomatic conversion after two years.
And so for them after four yearsin an RMPO four hour RMPO, there
will be an additional $1 per hour.
Now, I noticed some questionscoming from the field.

(14:52):
Would all the inflation, how come.
We then weren't able to achievemore on the wage increases.
So Charlie, if I could turn it backto you for just a minute, to emphasize
the difference between a general wageincrease and a cost of living allowance.
Sure, Mark.
Thanks.
Hey, I appreciate that.
Now, the general wage increases is,is just that, it's, it's, it's a

(15:14):
wage increase that, that everybodyis going to get no matter what.
It's the guarantee guaranteed pay raise.
It's a guaranteed addition to oursalary, that that happens every November.
And it is not tied to anything specific.
It's not tied to the cost ofgoods that, that we purchase.
It's not tied to rent,it's not tied to gasoline.

(15:36):
It's just the, the general wageincrease that, that we negotiate.
The COLA or the cost of livingadjustment that is specifically tied to.
the prices we're paying, for our everydaygoods, we use, what is called the Consumer
Price Index that is published by theBureau of Labor Statistics, which is a,

(15:59):
a division of the Department of Labor.
They go through and they, they trackthe cost of everything every month.
They track the cost of gasoline, theprice of eggs, the price of rent, the,
cost of mortgage, all of that stuff.
And then using their formula, they,they establish what is commonly
known as the inflation rate.

(16:20):
And,, they go through andthey measure that every month.
. The cost of living adjustmentsare directly tied to that.
And we, we do those every six months.
We see what the inflation rate is,for six months, and then we use a
formula taking that, that that rate ofinflation, that that cost of live, or

(16:42):
excuse me, that consumer price index.
And we equate that intodollars and cents, per year.
Per hour that is added towages and to our wages.
And so it's, the COLA is the thingthat is directly tied to prices
and the things that we purchase.

(17:04):
Of course, one thing that we seem toforget sometimes is that if inflation
goes down, if, if the prices of goodsgo down and the consumer price index
is negative, we don't get a pay cut.
They don't take that money away.
They, we just keep goingwith the same thing.
So the, the consumer price index and ourCOLAs are truly what is tied to the cost

(17:28):
of living, not our general wage increases.
Yeah.
So I think that's very importantfor our listeners to understand
that our compensation package isa combination of three things, and
we just talked about two of them.
General wage increaseplus plus addition COLA.
Our last contract, , 2021 to 2024.

(17:50):
Four for every full-time career employeerepresented $6,300 more just on the COLA.
And then the third ingredient, thethird plus is our step increases.
So let me talk about the tentativeagreement in relation to COLA
and relation to step increases.

(18:11):
The contract has the six COLAsthat Brother Cas just referred to.
It's based on January and July CPI releaseof each year, 2025, 2026, and 2027.
Now we never know in the futurewhat it's gonna be, but we already
know 'cause the first COLA we'vemissed, that would be retroactive.

(18:33):
That's $395 right there.
That when, if and when weratify this agreement and we
certainly hope it ratifies.
That will be in our pocket.
The next COLA, we're in the four.
Of the six months, 'cause it'scalculated in six months and
each month could go up or down.
So treat this as a projectionbecause it could change.

(18:56):
But right now that COLA is alreadyalmost at an additional $600 a year,
quite likely the first two COLA, once weratify of this new tentative agreement,
this what will be our new contract,if it's ratified, will be around,
if not more than a thousand dollars.

(19:17):
Just for those first two COLAs, oureconomists project, and it's only a
projection, so listen to me carefully.
They project that during the life of thisthree year contract, our the projected
COLAs will be well over $3,000 we believe.
That if these tariffs go in the waythat this administration is talking

(19:41):
about, there's even a, a, a, a goodchance of rising inflation and therefore
our COLA will be that much critical.
I do wanna go back to one thing I kind ofskipped over, and that is the, the, the,
the path we were on was either reachinga voluntary agreement, which we're
pleased we did, or interest arbitration.

(20:02):
So then our future is placed in thehands of one arbitrator who's not
exempt from the difficult times we'rein either, who then makes a decision.
And historically, unless the partieshave agreed ahead of time, the parties
meaning the union and management, that theCOLAs will stay arbitrators will often.
Give retroactive general wageincreases but not retroactive COLAs.

(20:25):
And we've historically lostthem in interest arbitration.
So when you're weighing how to voteon this tentative agreement, keep in
mind that we're also weighing whatwould likely happen or, or the risks
of going to interest arbitration versusus being in control of our own destiny.
Us meaning you the member.

(20:47):
So the COLA's in the tentativeagreement are intact.
And one last thing about COLA, and Imay ask Charlie to jump in on this too.
We're the only postal unionleft that has Full COLA.
The other unions have gone towhat's called prorated COLA.
Sometimes we dub it COLA light.
Charlie, can you give us a quick summaryof the difference between the two?

(21:09):
Yeah, sure.
And, and so COLA light, and I'mgoing to use numbers, they're,
they're not real numbers.
They're, they're numbers thatare easy to do the math on.
So for example, let us say thatinflation has rise, gone up over the
last six months and the, the COLA comesout to be, it's a thousand dollars

(21:33):
extra for cost of living adjustment.
The APWU every single careeremployee is going to get $1,000.
If you're a level, A level six step ffyou're gonna get a thousand dollars.
If you're a level 10 step p you'regonna get a thousand dollars.
If you're a level four, jj, you'regonna get a thousand dollars.

(21:57):
It doesn't matter where you're on thepay scale, you're gonna get that, that
a thousand dollars because the consumerprice index says that's how much the
cost of goods and services has increased.
Everybody gets that a thousand dollars.
If we look at some of,of how COLA light works.
It has been done to adjust theCOLA for the other unions so

(22:21):
that everybody gets exactly thesame percentage of pay increase.
Now, what that means is that if it's,if for whatever reason it's 1%, the
people at the top in the other unionsare gonna get 1% and the people at
the bottom of the pay scales andthe other unions are gonna get 1%.
But how, the simplest way to put that is,is for, for example, one of our unions,

(22:46):
the bottom step of the grade makes about61% of the top step of that same grade.
So the top step will get athousand dollars and the bottom
step will get 61%, which is $610.

(23:08):
So the bottom people are notgetting the full cost of inflation.
The full cost of the, theincrease in prices and goods,
they're only getting 61% of it.
And, and, and President Dimondstein,this is one of the things that you've
talked about and we in, in, in someof our in-person events we both have
talked about over the years, when you goto the gas station, there isn't a sign

(23:31):
that says the gas costs that's right.
This much for the top step postalworker union and gas costs this much
for the bottom step postal worker union.
It's all the same thing.
So the APWU's COLA formula is truly thelast union that protects the cost of
inflation for all employees equally acrossthe board, all of our career employees.

(23:56):
Yeah, it's very important for people tounderstand the, difference and how much
better our contract is on the question.
COLA I did just a quick ofthe back envelope, Charlie.
So the 6,300 that I talked about ofCOLA in the last contract, if it was
COLA Light, that would've represented37-38 hundred dollars instead of the 63.

(24:18):
And then it becomes a permanentpart of that pay scale.
So new coming in are coming ina lower part of the pay scale.
By the way, that's the chain wegave no concessions and we'll
get into that, at, at the end.
But what management really wantedwas us to go to Prorated COLA 'cause
it represents really, literally,probably billions of dollars to them.

(24:39):
And we said, not this union, not the A BW.
And we together, as your negotiatingcommittee, stood strong on that issue.
So we got wage increases.
We got COLA and then we got steps.
Something that's very much taken forgranted, an automatic step for the, at
least the, the main grade every 36 weeks.

(25:02):
And for some of the highergrades is even less.
By the way, the other postal unions have, 46, 48, and 52 weeks between their steps.
We have 36 and we kept the 36.
So the step increases like aseniority, pay raise, automatic.
They can't deny it.
Management can't say no.
in the past, for the newer workersmanagement used to be able to

(25:23):
deny step increases that was takencare of by the APWU, decades ago.
So what we've done, if we made somechange, , we were very much focused
in these negotiations and we're veryopen about this with all of you, that
one of our main goals was to continueto bridge the gap between the two tier
concessionary wage system that came outof 2010 and in, and, 20, in 2019, we

(25:49):
were able to get two of the top stepsback and, and level six and seven, one
step back in level five in 2021, wereturned level eights throughout all our
crafts to the pre 2010 full pay scale.
We were restored all the topsteps and took off all the bottom
steps that were added in 2010.

(26:11):
And this time we've alsocontinued to make some progress.
We're not there yet, but we're not gonnabridge, we're not going to get rid of
a tier that management negotiated for.
And the union accepted in 2010 andit was voted on by the members.
We're not gonna change thatovernight, but we continue to
make really important progress.
So what we've done in this TA isin grade four, where that's where

(26:37):
the custodians are hired, and a lotof preference eligible veterans.
We took off one less bottom step, soit'll be a little higher starting scale.
And there's a lower step when ourclerk PSEs, well, not just our
clerk, but if there's still a fewPSEs and motor vehicle as well.
But it's mainly in the clerk craft.

(26:58):
When they hit the two yearautomatic conversion, they were
placed into , an even lower step.
That lower step is now being eliminated.
So now if you're a PSE, youget converted into two years.
You go right in to the regularpay scale, lower step is gone.
That was called step, gg, grade three.
There weren't that many of 'em, but gradethree has been completely eliminated.

(27:21):
and and upgraded to grade four.
But the most important thingis we added a new top step
for grades 4, 5, 6, and seven.
So now if you're grade six orseven, and I think our most
prevalent grade still is level sixCharlie, and I'm right grade six.
Is that still?

(27:41):
Yep.
Grade six, step A. This contractis the one where the most,
most populous step in level.
So now on six and seven, when youreach top step and there's a top
step added, we're only gonna be twosteps behind and instead of five.
So progress is being made, we'llcontinue to make progress in the future.

(28:02):
And I encourage peopleto look at it that way.
The foundation is clear.
We made real progress,we gave no concessions.
And in a couple years we'll be backat the negotiating table, fighting
to get those steps back and tomerge our pay scales, into one.
So that's the main combinationof our compensation package.
General wage increase, full COLA.

(28:24):
Step increases, and those atthe top already have their
step increases every day.
So again, it depends where you are onthe pay scale of how it all adds up.
but it, it certainly, even modestpay raises make a huge difference
in our financial security.
Now, we did do, for the first timein 30 years, we, made an improvement

(28:48):
in, night differential 30 years ago,an arbitrator part of the dangers
of going to interest arbitration.
If we have to be there, we werecertainly ready, but if we can get a,
a negotiated agreement, we're better.
Roth night differential usedto be 10% Folks and that would
go up as our wages went up.
The arbitrator in 1994 froze.

(29:11):
Then reduced it at a fixed amount.
It has been that fixedamount the entire time.
This is the first timewe've turned it around.
It's not massive.
But if we open the door for futurenight differential increases 4%
in 2025 September, and another 2%.
Now that 4% in 2% is basedon the night differential,
not based on the hourly wage.

(29:33):
It's based on the night differential.
So if the night differential,let's say, is a dollar 50 an hour,
it's a 4% increase based on adollar 50, that's another 6 cents.
And then the 2% would be on top of that.
So we've opened the door to begin torestore, fair night differential night
work takes it out of our families.
It takes it out of our health, it takesit out of our, out of our longevity.

(29:56):
So that's another positive thing.
And maybe in many ways the most important,Aspect of what we've achieved in these
times is maintaining the tremendousjob security that we have, and in
times of chaos and in times of turmoil,and in times where the Elon Musks of

(30:17):
the world want to take our jobs andturn it over to the private sector
jobs, security looms bigger than ever,and so job security are no layoff.
Protection for career employeeswith six years of service
remains in full force and effect.
What workers do you know in yourfamilies, in your communities,

(30:37):
your neighbors, anybody elsethat has that kinda job security?
Very, very, very important in this momentwhere we're able to extend that to the
current, the career employees who areon the rolls when the contract expired,
so that's September 20th, 2024 whohave less than six years will also be

(31:02):
protected for the life of the agreementthat affects 70,000 of you Folks.
It's a great accomplishment.
We also maintain the 50mile limit on Excessing.
There was a day not that longago where people could be
moved anywhere in the country.
Families were disrupted, kidswere pulled outta school.
Spouses had to quit jobs, houses hadto be sold when they were underwater.

(31:26):
Whatever happened.
50 mile limit on Excessingeliminates all of that.
It may not be pleasant, but it's a wholelot better than getting laid off because
people have a postal job and they gotretreat rights back to once they came.
When jobs come open there, the 50mile limit has also been maintained.

(31:46):
The moratorium that we negotiatedsince 2015, to protect existing PVS
jobs, that's the truck drivers, willcontinue for the life of the agreement.
That means whatever work we havein that particular category of
work, PVS, they cannot subcontractduring the life of the agreement.

(32:09):
And we've maintained.
It's huge.
It was a huge accomplishment lasttime, but every time we go into
negotiations, everything's up forgrabs and everything's on the table.
We have maintained the automaticPSE conversion to career status
after two years, with the oneexception of the RMPO PSEs.
And by the way, the RMPO PSEs dohave some opportunities to get career

(32:34):
appointments within what they call the bigcluster or voluntarily, within 50 miles.
So that remains in full force and effect.
Couple other things.
Our health insurance is,has, has remained the same.
but important in there is the 95% companycontribution for the APWU consumer driven

(32:54):
health plan is still intact for, forwhen that health plan works for people.
It's a tremendous, advantagethat management is contributing
95% and it keeps our premiumsextremely low for that plan.
And the uniform workload will remain,with the general increases that have
been done over the years as 2.5% a year.

(33:16):
Uniforms of very important for theworkers who interact with the public,
not just for the brand, but for safety.
and what we do know is thatthe cost from the vendors is
going up quicker than the 2.5%.
And we did negotiate a memorandumto look into other alternatives.

(33:38):
Would keep the prices more reasonableand make that 2.5% go further.
One thing that happens in this business,and I'm just being honest with you, it's
a cost of not having one postal union.
We negotiate, management can playoff against each other at times.
My point is simply this, though,sometimes what one union does, whether

(34:01):
it's us, us, or another postal union,once another union agrees to 2.5% on
the uniforms, it's very hard for ournegotiations have come out any different.
If we were negotiatingtogether, we would be stronger.
We do the best we can to buildon each other's successes.
but that's, that's one area thatwe really need to make, progress.

(34:21):
And we have some tools inplace now to be able to do it.
So with that, I was gonna ask, youBrother Cash, if you could share, maybe
not every one of them, 'cause someare more, significant than others, but
you generally led the effort with the,the management counterparts on the
work rules of Article one through 36.
If you could, if I could turn itover to you, to share some of those,

(34:45):
gains, take it away.
Sure.
Hey, thanks Mark.
you know, I'm really excitedabout some of the, the gains we
have made in, in this contract.
There are some things that I think are,important, important to the, to the
membership, and, and to the membershipacross all, all class of employee, all
crafts, non-career, career employees.

(35:07):
Whether you're a part-time flexible,part-time, regular, or full-time regular.
we made some, some good gains.
One of the, first gains that alot of people have, have been
continually asking me about hasbeen the annual leave exchange or
annual leave, sell back or buyback.
It's often called, we've increased thatin this contract for the life of this

(35:30):
agreement, that an annual leave exchangewill increase from 40 hours to 80 hours.
We have also, increased the annualleave carryover for employees
that, carry over annual leave.
that is changing from 440 hours to 520hours, which also means if, an employee,
retires during the life of this agreementand they have the maximum carry over

(35:53):
520 hours, they can be, paid out thosehours as well at, at time of retirement.
one of the other things that involvesleave is, is the bereavement leave.
We've been able to add, additional peoplewho are covered under bereavement leave.
So if you, unfortunately suffer aloss of a family member, you'll now
be able to take bereavement, leavefor your, for your, stepparents

(36:17):
for mother and father-in-laws and,and for your grandchildren as well.
And of course, the spouses ofgrandchildren, spouses of, of
your grandparents and whatnot.
And, and, and, we also will definein the jca under the definition of
grandparent and grandchildren, thatthat includes great-grandparents

(36:40):
and great-grandchildren as well.
we know that we have many,multi-generational households.
We know that many people, youknow, now are, are taking care
of, their grandchildren andtheir great-grandchildren.
And so we think that's a gainwith, with the, bereavement leave.
Some of the other things that, weaddressed, one of the big things
that we addressed is an issue withthe, postal support employees, the

(37:03):
PSEs, who were converted to careerstatus within their first appointment.
As you know, when you get hired as a,a postal support employee, in order to
gain access to the grievance procedure,you have to work either 90 days or be
employed for 120 calendar days, althoughit's technically not called the probation.

(37:25):
This has become knownas the PSE probation.
So if you've served your 90 days or 120days, and then say at six months you got
converted to career, the, the contractrequired that you serve another probation.
And so unfortunately this was asecond crack of the postal service.
They could take another bite atthe apple where you got through

(37:47):
your 90 days or 120 days, butthen got converted at six months.
They could separate you or letyou go when you got converted
in another 90 day probation.
Well, in this contract, that secondprobationary period has been eliminated.
postal employees, postal supportemployees who are converted to
career during their first term,will now only serve one probation.

(38:13):
So let's say you're, you're, you'vebeen a, you were hired as a PSE.
You've worked 75 days.
You now were, appointed,a career position.
You were converted to career.
When you go to that career position,those 75 days that you have worked
will now count towards your probation.
So you're now only as, as few as15 days away from completing your

(38:36):
probation as a career employee.
So we're down to a singleprobationary, period across all
classifications of employees.
That is a, a big thing.
Mark, you already, mentioned someof the things about the no layoff
clause, the health benefits.
And of course, one other big thing thatis gonna happen is for our non-career
union siblings, they will no longer,be subjected to not receiving pay if

(39:03):
there was an act of God, if there'sa big snow storm, snow storm's, a
big deal in Buffalo, or I'm whereI come from, or a hurricane or an
earthquake, or a fire or other naturaldisasters, PSCs will now qualify
for active God administrative leave.
It's a big step for us totake that to, to get there.
so that's one big thing.

(39:23):
We, we have made some, some changes toArticle 2.1, which is non-discrimination.
we've, we've added terms to that to makesure that, the postal service recognizes
and identifies all of those things which,employees cannot be discriminated for.
We've done some other minor changes tohelp speed up the, the grievance process.

(39:44):
And of course, what we're, we'realways proud of is all the memorandum
of understanding, or what we callthe MOUs, with the exception of
one maintenance, one that I'm sureBrother Bgan will talk about later.
All of those MOUs are being carried over.
So those are just some of thethings, under the general, articles
that, that we've improved uponand, and we're moving forward on.

(40:08):
And I'm really excited for the membersto also hear about the work that the
other crafts have done because theydid some good work that's very specific
to their, their crafts as well.
Yeah.
Thanks.
Thanks Charlie.
And, and we, and before we go tothe other crafts, leaders that, that
we're gonna bring on the, podcast,how would you address, so there's,
there's some sentiment in the fieldor some there, there were high

(40:31):
expectations, which is a good thing.
Workers should really have goodexpectations based on our own self-worth.
We make the world go round, we make thepost office go round, and we serve the
people with great pride and, dedication.
But I know in, you know, I get letters,I get some phone calls, conversations
where people were expecting, youknow, some of the kind of pay raises,

(40:53):
let's say that the auto workers wereable to extract out of the big three,
a year, year and a half, passed, orthe dock workers were able to, gain.
And, you know, some people areprobably saying, well, what's
the matter with the APWU?
How, how would you addressthose concerns when we
hear
them?

(41:14):
Mark.
That's a, that's a great question and it'salways a challenging question to answer.
And, and when we look at thesethings, we always have to make sure
we're looking at the big picture,that are surrounding these unions.
And we also have to look at the bigpicture within the postal service.
I mean, the most recent one waswe can talk about the dock workers
that received a 62% pay increase.

(41:34):
But what we don't hear, and we don'thear them talking about in the press,
is that those Dock works haven'treceived a pay increase for 13 years.
And so they're just trying to get caughtup and be brought up, brought up to speed
while we, in the American Postal WorkersUnion, having our general wage increases,
our COLAs and our step increases basicallyin every contract for over 50 years.

(41:57):
We have continued to grow and we havecontinued to, to, Gain more and more,
more income for, for our members.
And those other unions, they, theywere also working for companies
that were very profitable,
right?
And they also had the right to strike.
They had the threat of no work.
You know, no contract, nowork, no good pay, no work.

(42:20):
That is a challenge that we faceas well with our no strike clauses.
And then when we look at some of this,some of these things our, our employees.
Have to look at how this is going to,affect them over the life of the contract.
For example, projected fora level six step a employee.
And remember earlier on I had saidthat a level six step a employee is the

(42:44):
most populous step we have right now.
in our, our, our grades and steps betweentheir three general wage increases.
That will be $2,597 ora dollar 25 an hour.
The projected COLAs of that,you mentioned well over $3,000

(43:07):
that we're again, projecting tobe about a dollar 85 an hour.
just in those two pay raises, we'relooking at well over $5,000 that
they could be getting and then.
Those same levels, those grade six stepA employees are going to get four step
increases, which under our projectionswould be a little more than $4,000.

(43:30):
These employees at Level Six Step A,they're looking at gaining over $10,000,
actually close to $11,000, about$10,700 over a three year contract.
These are significant gainsin significant pay increases.
You can't just look at a percentage orsee what you're hearing in the press

(43:51):
or see what you're seeing on TV andnot look at our whole pay package.
The, general wage increases, theCOLAs, the step increases, and even
PSEs are affected by the COLAs andthe step increases because at some
point, if you're currently A PSE,at some point during this contract.

(44:13):
Except for if you're a PSE in afour hour RMPO, you are going to
be converted to career and you'regoing to get the gains of the COLAs
rights and the step
increases.
So everything has to be lookedat at as, as a projection.
They have to look at ourpower and our leverage.
They have to look at the companythat we're, we're negotiating with
and what they have and what theycan give and what they can afford.

(44:36):
And so those are things that we have to,to look at and we put into perspective.
I really think this is a good paypackage for what, for where we've been.
These are some of the larger generalpay increases that we've had in
the last, the last few contracts.
you know, because we, you know, 1.3was what we had last contract before
that, an interest arbitrator had hadimposed those, wage increases on us.

(45:01):
So this is a great deal, and whenyou look at the entire picture
and compare our picture and whatwe face compared to other people.
We have made significant gains.
And I know that you've looked at some ofthis Mark and you've talked some of the
large amount of increases, some, somepeople have received over the years.
Right?
Yeah.
Good.
Very good points.
Charlie, and I know our peopleare thinking about this.

(45:23):
I just, just to add to it, we did someback of the envelope things about when,
when, when the, the UAW auto workers,I thought waged a marvelous contract
campaign and strike against the veryprofitable big, big three under their
newer president Sean Fain's leadership.
And they did very well, but theylost their COLA in 2008 and we

(45:48):
did a back and we never lost ours.
So we did a back of the envelopefiguring that if we had lost our
COLA, when they lost their COLA,every full-time career employee.
Would be taking home14,000 less dollars a year.
Had what happened to the auto workers inthe auto bailout would've happened to us.

(46:12):
And by the way, in that auto bailout,new hires were starting at 40% less.
Not a couple steps less, 40% lessso when they were on strike, and did
very well to regain some of thosehuge concessions from 2008, 2009.
We never lost it.
We had it all the time.
And that's part of why we, wealways wanna try to compare apples

(46:35):
to apples, not apples to, oranges.
But, thanks so much for thoseinsights, brother Charlie, thanks.
Thanks so much for, joiningme today on this podcast.
thanks for your great workas the chief spokesperson.
For everybody and those thingsthat we couldn't achieve this time.
There are many other ways we have to tryto get there and we're gonna be back in

(46:56):
bargaining in a couple years as we buildoff the generations of struggle that
have created this wonderful contractand this foundation that has remained
untouched with these negotiations.
Very important for peopleto, to contemplate.
And because of all of you, because we'reunion strong all day long, 'cause we're

(47:16):
union proud and said it loud in ourcontract campaign, we have maintained
everything that we've won over the years.
Made some real improvements and wegave up no concessions to do it.
So with that, i'm gonna shift over to talkto each of the craft directors to share
some of the highlights of their work.
And then it's gonna be all in yourhands, Folks, on how to vote, we

(47:39):
certainly hope that you would vote yes.
So there's one final step to secure thegains we have talked about, and that
is this contract has to be ratified.
If it's not, we go tointerest arbitration.
At high risk to our full COLA at highrisk to our no, no layoff protections

(48:00):
at high risk to our 50 mile limiton Excessing and, many other things.
So, but if I can throw onelast question to you, brother.
Cash.
I know a lot of people arealready asking, they're excited.
but when are we gonna get the newpay rate in effect, and when are we
gonna get our back pay, particularlyaround the past COLA and the general

(48:21):
wage increase from November, 2024?
Do we, do we have any insights on that?
So if you could share some of thatwith the members, 'cause I'm sure
that's how many people's minds.
Yeah, sure.
You know, this is one of the, again, youlike to say, one of the top questions
that I get asked all the time, and, andagain, this is based on ratification.
We gotta make sure, you know, oncethe contract gets ratified, then we

(48:43):
go into the implementation processand the implementation process.
There are some things that are writteninto the tentative agreement that
people can look at when they're,they're looking at it online, when
they're voting at their, their timefor, you know, voting on ratification.
The tentative agreement will mentionthings like, the new steps going into
effect, 180 days after first full payperiod, 180 days after ratification,

(49:06):
or for example, the step GG willgo into effect the first full pay
period, 180 days after ratification.
So once we get to ratification, like,say, things have gotta be changed,
things have to be reprogrammed.
This is a huge organization.
Our payroll is completely,computer and data driven.

(49:29):
and so our union siblings in the ITASunit of the American Postal Workers
Union, they are the ones who areresponsible for programming all of
our pay changes and and programming.
All of the step changesand, and, and so forth.
That does take some time.
That computer programming takes some time.

(49:50):
But the first thing that theyhave to do is they have to program
what is called the stop gap.
As soon as the contract isratified, they're given directions
to program the pay that shouldalready be in effect at that point.
That would be the November 16th,2024, general wage increase.
That would be the COLA from, whichwould've gone into effect March 8th, 2025.

(50:14):
They have to go in and they have toreprogram the payroll system to start
the employees being paid at those rates.
Once that programming's done,that's the stop gap date.
The last contract in 2021, 2024.
It took our sisters and brothers, atITAS 14 weeks to program those changes.

(50:38):
So that's similar to what we can expectthis time that it'll be 14, 15, 16
weeks from the date of ratificationfor that stop gap to be programmed.
We will then have the retroactiveperiod that will then be established,
and that retroactive periodwill be November 16th, 2024.
Through that stop gap period, that willbe the time that people will be owed

(51:03):
money, or their retroactive back pay.
It's, people will call it backpay, they'll call it retroactive.
They'll just call it retro.
It's all the same thing under the,under the last five contracts,
Mark, where we have had.
Retroactive pay either negotiated orordered by an interest arbitrator.
The average length of time fromratification to payment of that

(51:28):
due to the necessary systemprogramming has been 160 days.
So, you know, our, our people can expectthat a lot of this stuff is gonna go
into effect somewhere in that 160 dayto 180 day window, after ratification,
and they'll start receiving that pay.
But again, I can't thank oursisters and brothers in ITAS enough

(51:50):
for all the work that they do.
'cause not only are they programmingour pay changes, they're programming
the letter carriers, they'reprogramming the rural letter carriers.
They're programming everybody's pay.
As a matter of fact, there isn't asingle person, out there who doesn't
get a paycheck at the postal serviceunless our ITAS Union siblings have

(52:11):
done something and so I gotta give themkudos for all the hard work that they're
gonna have to do to get this done.
Thanks for that info.
People take that into account.
It, the retroactive pay will becoming, but it does take some time.
But important though, what Charliewas saying is, you know, the first
step is to get the pay rate right?
Then they go back from,once it's corrected.

(52:33):
and, and the new pay rates are in andpay whatever retroactive people will do.
So it will be coming.
so with that, thanks again,Charlie, for joining us.
Thanks for all the great work.
and this contract is inthe hands of the members.
This tentative agreement is the handsof the members, where it should be.
This is your union.
You're the ultimate deciders.
We're a democratic union.

(52:55):
We want people to vote.
well Folks, it's my pleasurenow of bringing to the podcast
our, distinguished secretarytreasurer sister Elizabeth Powell.
We call her Liz Powell.
Liz, thanks for joining us.
Thank you, Prez.
And we've been talking, for quite a whilenow about the new tenant of agreement.
We're excited.

(53:15):
We've shared a lot of information.
The, all of the craft directors have,have given some of their, insights.
But I wanted our listenersto get a, a good handle on.
How the balloting actuallyworks, the timing, who runs it.
And I know you've been leading up thateffort with us, but we don't wanna
also take away, and we already toldthe Folks you were part of the Core
National Negotiating Committee, and wecertainly appreciate your role on there.

(53:39):
But in terms of theballoting, what are the steps?
What should people expect?
Thank you, President Dimondstein.
As the Prez says, andthat's what I call him.
We are truly excited here at 1300 LStreet to be looking forward to our
contract ratification vote that'sgoing to take place starting next week.
we have a ranking file committee thathave selected five of them outta the 13

(54:01):
appointed by the National Executive Boardwho's going to join AAA in the preparation
of getting our ballots prepared.
Be looking forward to a mailingthat's gonna be coming to your homes
during the week of June the 16th.
Pay very close attention.
They have to be back in thebox, designated no later than
9:00 AM on July the 10th.

(54:24):
In this mailing, which is going to be sentto, over 157,000 of our members, 38,000
non members, which will have 1187 Enclosedthat will give them an opportunity
to join the APWU in order to vote.
We also will be mailing over 800to our full dues paying retirees.

(54:48):
Those of our members who have decidedto retire, but still have a safe in
what we do with our contract, andwe're so looking forward to 197,000
plus people voting on this contract.
Be on the lookout because in yourpackage you're gonna get a summary of
the key provisions with the QR code thatyou can scan with the mobile device.

(55:09):
That will take you directly to thetentative agreement on our website.
You also are gonna receive a statementfrom the rank and file committee and
you will receive a wage summary as well.
And last but not least, a letter fromPresident Dimondstein encouraging you
to vote on the tentative agreement.
So we're looking forward to that.

(55:29):
And for you locals that's out there,we're gonna have an incentive again,
as we had in our last contractratification based on the size of your
membership, if over 50% of your totalmembership, the top three locals with
over 50% of their total membershipwill receive some incentive awards.

(55:49):
You will find all of this informationand how they're going to be awarded
in our new service bulletin thatwill be coming out to you real soon.
So you are encouraged to get out thevote, go talk to your members, explain to
them what's going on, and we're lookingforward, as we say, we're excited here
at 1300 L Street and we are fired up andready to go with the tentative agreement.

(56:13):
That's been negotiated between the APWUand the United States Postal Service.
Well, thanks so much, Liz, but just, Ijust want our members to understand too.
When you say AAA, you'retalking about the American what
Arbitration?
American Arbitration Association.
And so we purposely go toan outside neutral firm to

(56:34):
balloting company, balloting company.
And most of the locals would be familiarwith it anyway because they also help them
assist them with local elections that alot of the locals and state has as well.
Right.
So it's the same companyon a national level.
Okay.
Well that's all very helpful.
So to just remind everybodyballots are going out, yes or
no on the ratification vote.

(56:55):
On June 16th, it'll bearriving to people's home soon
after, and has to be back.
What date, Liz?
Was it?
July,
no later than 9:00 AM July 10th.
And we expect, to have the resultsthen by the end of the day.
No.
Yes, quite possibly sometime that laterthat afternoon, the results will be in.
In addition President Dimondstein, the,the membership will be able to follow us

(57:19):
because we will have in real time, I thinkthat's what you call it, ability to view
on the website the count as it comes in.
Okay.
So they can witness that with us as well.
Great.
Well, thank you so much for,facilitating this whole process,
and of course for your role on theNational Negotiating Committee.
We work well together, we rode together,we hashed out our differences and,

(57:42):
that's, that's part of the, that's partof how we get to a good end, result.
So thanks again for all thegood work, Liz, and thanks for
joining us briefly on the podcast.
And thank you for appointing me tothat National Negotiating Committee.
It was a big help.
So it's, it's my pleasure nowto, to, bring into the podcast

(58:05):
our hardworking clerk, craftdirector, brother Lamont Brooks.
Welcome brother.
I.
Thank you for the invitation, Mark.
Yeah.
We've been having a, a, a long discussion.
We know the contract is on people'sminds and they're gonna be making
their determination on the ratificationprocess, and we're certainly
encouraging people to vote yes.

(58:25):
But in terms of the, so you were notonly on the core national negotiating
committee and played, played a big roleand important role, but you also headed
up the, what we call the craft table.
negotiations for the, clerk craft.
So if you could share with thelisteners just what kind of, what,
what the craft table focused on andsome of the gains you think we made.

(58:46):
And then we can talk a little bitabout your general perspectives
about the whole contract.
Thank you, Mark.
Well, yes, everybody, a background forover the past year and a half we've been
listened to the, the concerns and whatthe members wanted on the work room floor.
We've taken proposals andresolutions you brought forward.
We took an input from yourlocal officers and stewards.

(59:09):
We solicited input from all yourcraft directors, so we heard you loud
and clear, and we understand whatyour concerns was and what you would
like to see in the new contract.
We took that all in consideration.
We brought forward over 30 some proposalsand the clerk division and an effort to
secure the job security and protectionsand work rules that you would like to see.

(59:32):
We also had the balance.
The, the needs of the postal service,and they were coming to the table
with some wishes, with all that beingconsidered and that the, the nature of
what we're going through, dealing with thepublic, the, emphasis against the postal
service and the fights we're incurring.
We had to look at what wasin the best interest of the

(59:53):
people we represent, right?
You as a whole, with the main focus beingjob security and of, of course, we wanted
the opportunity for pay raises and securethe benefits you've already enjoyed.
That was our main concern.
Excellent.
With that being said, withthat being said, I can Mark,
no, I can talk a little bit.
With that being said.

(01:00:13):
We heard your cries.
A lot of things we brought forward wewere not able to get, but at the same
time, it's important for us to secure thethings we thought was important to you.
We could not afford to roll the dice inthis climate that we're in night now,
not knowing what an arbitrator wouldbring and what the results would be.

(01:00:33):
And Mark probably already discussed it.
So our main issues wasobviously we wanted.
Good pay raises.
Obviously we wanted all those things,but when you look at the pay raises, what
we secured and the COLA, the full COLA.
Right.
And in fact, we have, if you were acareer employee as of September 20th,
2024, you had no layoff protectionfor the term of this contract.

(01:00:58):
We maintained the 50 miles.
the maximum you couldbe excess is 50 miles.
We maintained all those things.
We got, step increases.
All of these things are I importedtoward the, the increased in wages.
We thought that was very successfulIn our minds, we gave back nothing.
Right?
So with that being said, here'ssome of the things we try to secure.

(01:01:21):
we understand the cries of the pfs.
We did everything we could.
That was number one.
And our priority of the things we wentout from the clerk craft was trying
to get a reduction in the postmasters.
Working 15 hours in the level 18 officerswhen we couldn't get down to zero.
We even tried to get anywherein between the 15 to zero.
But what's important, everyoneis under the law, under the

(01:01:45):
congressional acts, postmasterscould work hours in a post office.
It's part of their job description.
So obviously to secure those gains,it might have put us in risk of
having to give, give up somethingwe thought was more important.
We will continue to work toward reducingthe number of hours postmasters work.
So that's our ongoing process.

(01:02:06):
So just because we've brought forward aattentive agreement, we're gonna continue
our efforts to secure, secure those rightsand benefits that you would like to enjoy.
With that being said.
We have secured now the opportunityfor PTs to be able to secure more hours
outside their installation, so they'renow able to pick and choose offices they

(01:02:27):
would like to go to to secure more hours.
Keep it in mind.
With the advancement of the last contract,we was able to get PT Fs from a guarantee
of only two hours of pay, period.
To now 24 hours of pay period.
That was a major advancement.
This is the next step.
So secure, you know, anopportunity to get more work hours.

(01:02:49):
And now the PTF Hub agreement that is nowpermanent in the contract, it's no longer
a pilot program, it's now a permanent,we're also for P tfs, we're getting a
one time opportunity to go in an officewhere we have less than 100 clerks.
To go into residual vacancy, anopportunity to pick an opportunity
to go into residual vacancy officeswith more than a hundred clerks.

(01:03:11):
So that's a one time opportunity.
That's a big plus.
Obviously if you don't wantto do it, that's fine, but it
gives you another opportunity.
We also secured 'cause we going after thework that the management is performing.
Now when managementcreates new ES jobs or.

(01:03:33):
Revised jobs, ES APWU now must getnotified and we have a 60 day period and
it's 60 days in advance where now we'reable to determine whether or not any of
those ES jobs has work that we consider.
It's none manager non-supervisory.
If it's work by the APWU clerks, it's anopportunity for us to secure that work

(01:03:58):
and to protect jobs and the clerk craft.
We also have secured.
We have secured a work groupto now look at local bidding.
When you start having it like bids manualbidding because of intersectional bidding.
Or you may have items in your LMOU whereit's hard to maintain the bidding process.

(01:04:19):
And we're looking at ways nowthat we can incorporate it in
the jobs bid tool to allow youto, for the opportunities to bid.
And that was never been done before.
It's because it's never been exception.
It's a pointed thingwe, we able to secure.
We all know with e AI that a lot oftechnologists taking it now where you

(01:04:41):
can pick up your phone and you almost askany question you want and get an answer.
We were able to secure for the life ofthis contract to extend the telework
agreements for the call centers.
For the customer retention teams andfor the mailing requirements clerks that

(01:05:01):
will allow you to work from home from theduration of this contract teleworking.
That's very important.
And we also was able to secureno contracting out of that work.
So now for the life of this agreement,will we be able to, if this agreement
is passed, you'll now have the securityof knowing that you cannot be laid off.

(01:05:23):
This work will not be, given to,outsourced from, to other entities.
I have involved in thisgrievance arbitration process and
negotiating contracts since 2010.
As everyone know, I'm very outspoken andI believe in fighting for our rights.
We were very diligent in our effortto secure this contract, and I

(01:05:45):
want to commend Mark and Charlie.
Because it was not an easy task.
We tasked it with going backto the postal service to secure
things we felt was important andMark was able to secure them.
So with that being said, the clerkdivision was unanimous and our support of

(01:06:06):
the tenant agreement, and me personally,I don't know if I should say this, but I'm
going to tell you for those who know me.
You should vote this contract up.
And if I went out crossing myoutside of my lane, I apologize.
It's not outside of the lane at all.
We, the whole, the entire negotiatingcommittee is rowing together and
encouraging the members to, vote.
Yes.
Yeah, that's, that.

(01:06:26):
That's excellent stuff, brother.
One thing that's come up that I,that you were directly involved with.
as a member of the team and, obviouslyit deeply affects the clerk craft
as well is the uniform allowance andpeople are very keenly aware that the
2.5% increase that generally is there.
That we, it kind of routinelygoes forward now is not keeping

(01:06:49):
up with the cost of uniforms.
So if you could briefly sharesome of what you were able
to lead us in accomplishment,in accomplishing some other.
So to at least look atother possibilities.
I, I think the members listeningwould be interested in that as well.
And that of course affectsother, other crafts.
It's not just a clerk craft issue.

(01:07:09):
Right.
I, I led up the committee,but it's also had one member
from each of the other crafts.
Right.
One from maintenancecraft and one for MBS.
What we did is prepared forthis contract negotiations.
We went back and looked atthe clothing and work clothes
allowance going back to 1980.
And we looked at looking at the valueof the dollar in 1980 compared with the

(01:07:32):
value of the dollar today to be equitable.
Clothing allowance would have to besomewhere in the neighborhood of 850 to
$950, 2.2 0.5% just will not keep up withinflation, no matter how you look at it.
And so what we did is we'renow looking at alternatives.
There's gonna be a task force tolook at some kind of other ways in

(01:07:54):
which we may be able to secure more.
Ability to buy more clothes and clothesat a more reasonable price, whether it
be through some type of joint venture.
We're looking at all those opportunitiesbecause it's not been advantageous
for the people we represent.
Right.
Good.
So that's something we'll lookforward to in the, future.
Well, thanks so much for, joining us.

(01:08:16):
I, I shared earlier that thecommittee worked hard, rode together
well, we had honest differencesthat gets us to a stronger place.
and we are very pleased to present tothe members, and it's in their hands
as it should be, but to to present tothe members what we think is a very
solid contract for, for the times.
And we also all know, and Iknow, you do this every day.

(01:08:38):
We all do it.
collective bargaining doesn'tstop with the contract.
We're always bargaining.
We're always trying toaddress the problems.
We're always trying to advancethe rights of postal workers, the
working conditions of postal workers.
So thanks to, thanks for joining usbriefly, for the podcast, Lamont.
Keep up the good work out there.
Thank
you, Mark.
Thank you.

(01:08:58):
you.
Well, good Listeners, it's mypleasure to bring onto the podcast
our maintenance craft director.
Idowu Balogun.
Thanks for joining us, brother Balogun.
Thanks for having me.
So, we've been talking throughoutthe podcast about the big news, the
good news, we believe of having anew tentative agreement, , that's

(01:09:18):
going out to ratification.
but just to make sure everybody's aware.
So the maintenance articleis Article 38 of the country.
Correct.
And that covers what, what makes thatdifferent than the other articles?
Well, it covers all the maintenanceemployee, like a custodian, MP
mechanic, the people that fixthe building, the EMT, the BEM.

(01:09:40):
And, we have five sections.
And he also cover.
The clocks that are inthe, in the control room.
And so it would also, cover certaindifferent rules, let's say, maybe
when it comes to seniority andbidding and how to move . Between
the occupational groups and so on.
Absolutely.
Yes.
We have our own rule in that regards.
Well, you were part of the, by theAPWU Constitution, you're part of

(01:10:02):
the National Negotiating Committee.
I very much appreciate yours andthe rest of the committee's role.
we already shared that we workedhard and worked well together.
But, do you have some things specificallyyou'd like to share about some of the
things you were able to accomplishat the maintenance craft table?
'cause you let up that table, correct?
Well, the maintenance crafttable, we started for almost

(01:10:24):
six months before negotiation.
We were meeting on Zoom.
And, that gave us a groundto be able to build up on.
So by the time we started meetingwith the postal service at the
lockdown, we were already ready to go.
We know where we're going.
We're very happy to show that,the per diem will continue
for the life of this contract.
That means when people go to Oklahoma,they will get paid for going.

(01:10:46):
That's a big deal for our members.
we also, dealt with thepeople that are EMT, some EMT.
We like to work closer to home, meaningthey don't have to drive all the way
to downtown so they can clock in.
So now they can walk from,station close to their house
and clock in there and clock by.

(01:11:06):
Even though that is on the domicileposition now, they will make some
changes on the 30 mostly clean up,you know, and we also did with the
non-career employee that, if they wantcome into maintenance, they are, they
can take the test instead of goingoutside to go and take entrance tests.
I just believe they'realready in the postal survey.

(01:11:27):
Why should they go after coming?
So we expanded the in-service register.
So those are major accomplishment,you know, that we, yeah.
And, and one thing that, brother Cashand I talked about earlier, we talked
about, adding a top step for level.
4, 5, 6, and seven of the lowertiered pay scale and our effort to

(01:11:47):
bridge that divisive, two tier system.
So that applies to your maintenanceFolks too, in level Absolutely.
4, 5, 6, and seven, correct?
Absolutely, yes.
Yeah.
Great.
And we also, We're able to take a bottomstep, an entry level, step off level four.
So level four, as I understand it, isjust about all maintenance, correct?
Yes.
level four is mostly all maintenance.

(01:12:07):
I can't think of anyother level that's four.
In addition to that, I should know, the,level four across to that they enjoy line
H, which is in addition to their salary.
So even though the salary might be atthis level, most of them get thousands
of dollars on line H settlements,
not guaranteed.
'cause if management wouldabide by the contract.

(01:12:28):
Exactly.
Which is our goal.
Our goal is to have, you know, full start.
Yeah, that's right.
My goal, if they abide by thecontract, we have more, more, jobs.
So how, how do you feelas the maintenance.
Craft director overall aboutthe tentative agreement.
I think we did a good job.
We're a good co negotiatorcommittee together.
We rolled together, of course, youknow, we have challenges, but I

(01:12:51):
think it's a very good contract.
People should support it, especially inthis atmosphere that we are in right now.
Yeah, and all the job securityprovisions apply to maintenance.
Absolutely.
I, I'm glad that you're able to do that.
You know, I didn't expect it toeven happen, but, the last minute
after eight months of, freezingthe clock, you, you did a miracle.

(01:13:11):
Well, I'm proud of you.
We're, we're all in this together.
As we talked about earlier in the podcast.
What gives us the ability, the twoof us and others on the team to
negotiate is the fact that members.
Are the foundation of our union.
Otherwise, management wouldn'thave to come to the table and
they wouldn't come to the table.
so we, we, we appreciate the members.
We appreciate, your role and weappreciate what maintenance does to

(01:13:34):
get to, to, to keep the wheels moving.
On the post ops to keep our buildingsup, to keep our machines running, and,
and, so, carry on all, all, all of thegood work and let's look forward to
a really good contract going forward.
And I know you're very keen onthe fact that what we, you know,
we never get everything we want.
We never get everything we deserve.
It's not perfect.
But you have other ideas on howto get some of the things that we

(01:13:57):
were not able to achieve, right.
Absolutely.
First of all, we thank you for yourleadership and people just don't know.
The kind of work that goes on inthe background and the front of
negotiation are lacking maintenance.
We are already negotiating that nextsign off, that whatever we could not
even achieve in negotiation, we alreadyworking, you know, strongly, whether it's

(01:14:17):
gonna be a global lineage settlement,whether it's gonna be getting rid of tail
five, we are already working on that.
So negotiation never stop, right?
It's ever evolving.
Right.
Well, thanks again forjoining us, brother Balogun.
Solidarity forever.
Let's carry on.
Thanks sir. Thanks sir.Thanks for having me.

(01:14:38):
All right.
Well, with our continuing conversationabout the new tentative agreement,
I'm very happy to bring ontothe podcast our motor vehicle
craft director Michael Foster.
Welcome, Mike.
Thank you.
Hello, brother.
And, why don't, just to start itoff, why, why don't you share what
everybody, since, you have a lot ofpeople listening from all crafts.
What covers mainly the motor vehiclecraft specific articles, and then

(01:15:03):
your role in leading the craft tableswhere you discuss some of those
work rules and working conditions?
Well, the articles that notexclusively apply to us, but.
Definitely apply to us would beArticle 26, which are uniforms, right?

(01:15:23):
The Article 32, which is subcontracting,that's one of our most important,
most significant articles.
Article, 39, which is the MotorVehicle Craft article, right?
Article 30.
local implementation certainly hassome effect on how the work rules
are going to be formulated locally.

(01:15:44):
But 26, 32 and certainly 39 are,are bread and butter articles.
Right.
And of course we know that thegeneral wage increases Article
nine COLAs all like, right, sure.
So you, you headed up what wecall the craft table negotiations
mainly focused around 39.
So how did those go do, ifyou could share at least.

(01:16:06):
Tell me what you think thehighlights were and steps forward.
Well, they were verydifficult negotiations.
The postal service had goals inmind and their goals were certainly
adverse to the union's goals, right?
The unions were trying to look to makeimprovements, and the poster service,

(01:16:27):
were trying to make improvements.
In their direction.
So it was a greatly contested type ofnegotiations, but we made some progress.
We were successful, we wereunsuccessful with trying to get
upgrades for the different levelsof the motor vehicle craft.
We believed that we are.

(01:16:48):
Skilled employees and that ourwages should be comparable to
some of the comparative, jobsout in the private sector.
we weren't successful with that.
We made, some progress last negotiations.
Right.
But our main goal was to get upgrades,but we weren't successful with that.

(01:17:09):
But we did make improvements.
To, article 39 and article 32, and wewere able to get the highway contracting
limitation, MOU renewed, and that wasthe MOU, that the postal service agreed
that there would be no contractingout of the postal vehicle service
work during the life of the contract.

(01:17:31):
That was a big issue for us.
Right?
That's right.
To have some type of security.
That the work that we do would beprotected during this contract.
Then we made some other improvementswith the utilization of the
acting supervisors, the 2 0 4 Bs.
We made some provisions that allowedpart-time flex motor vehicle, employee

(01:17:56):
to be able to make applicationfor jobs that they are not.
Eligible to be able to beconverted to full-time in.
We were also able to put some morerestrictions on the acting supervisors, 2
0 4 Bs, that they can't even be convertedto career or to full-time while they're

(01:18:18):
in that acting supervisor capacity.
So we made some other,language improvements training.
A committee that there're goingto be headquarters involvement.
We were having some concernsthat the postal service was not
really coming to the table tobe able to enhance the training.

(01:18:38):
We believe training is important becausethat allows us to be qualified to be
able to make the repairs and to do thework that, of the new vehicles that the
postal service is bringing into the fleet.
So it was a, a very tedious and,and very trying type of negotiation,
but we didn't give any concessionsand that was one of our main goals.

(01:19:01):
First do no harm, and we were ableto have some success with making some
different changes to the agreement.
Well, thanks Mike.
And then on this Yeah.
You were also a member ofthe core National Negotiating
Committee we all wrote together.
So you played a role in all of the Sure.
Articles, and I know you were keenlyfocused and helped us all move forward

(01:19:24):
on the question of no layoff protections.
Absolutely.
You wanna talk about that briefly?
Absolutely.
Because the postal service is offeringearly outs and trying to right size
the size of what they consider theright size, the bargaining unit.
Then many of our senior type ofemployees are leaving the organization,

(01:19:49):
the replacement, employees.
We've got a good population of neweremployees that had less than six years
of service time while Article six givessome protection, but that first six
years right of employment is crucial.
For an employee, number one, we wannaretain the employees to have a full

(01:20:12):
career, and we wanted to give themthat security that they were going to
be able to plan for the future withthe knowledge that they were going
to be secure in their employment.
So that was very important to us,
especially with a newPMG coming in from FedEx.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
So, well, thanks, thanks so muchfor all your, terrific work on the

(01:20:33):
committee and, and, leading theefforts with your specific craft table.
appreciate you joining the podcastand keep up the great work, Mike.
Thank you.
Mark, it is been apleasure to serve with you.
Thank you.
At this uh, at this point, goodlisteners, I wanna welcome support
services director Arrion Brown, tothe podcast communicating with you.

(01:20:55):
Thanks for joining us, Arrion.
Oh, thank you PresidentDemaine for having me.
And we've been, talking a lotabout the new tentative agreement.
We're excited.
So we wanted to get some of your.
Thoughts, some of your, angles.
You're a member of the corecommittee, the National Negotiating
Committee by our Constitution.
we really appreciate, allof the committee's work and
yours and, and included.

(01:21:15):
So maybe you could start by sharingwith the listeners what articles
in our main agreement that wehave the tentative agreement for
are covered by support services.
'cause a lot of peopleprobably don't know.
Yeah, I I can do that brother.
the support services articlesin the, in the agreement.
Article 40 and Article 41.
Those are operating services located outtaWashington, DC and Maryfield, Virginia,

(01:21:38):
and material support services, materialsupport craft located in Topeka, Kansas.
And so when people hear about supportservices, they often think of ITAS and
Eagan, or the H-R-S-S-C in Greensboro, sothat Those are different contracts, right?
Yeah, definitely.
I like to call support services theindustrial division within them.

(01:21:59):
The industrial division with theindu, I'm tongue, tongue tied.
It's, I like to call supportservices the industrial division
with the ND, the industrial union.
we do have article 40 and 41 inthe agreement, but we also cover
several supplemental agreementsthat includes the information
technology and accounting services.
Center located in Wilkesboro,Pennsylvania, St. Louis,

(01:22:20):
Missouri, Eagan, Minnesota, aswell as San Mateo, California.
we cover H-R-S-S-C located outof Greensboro, North Carolina.
we have a mtech in Temperance, Michiganas a private sector contract, along
with the national nurses as well asprivate sector trucking contracts with
several companies across the country.
Yeah, and I know you're in negotiationsand helping to lead those negotiations.

(01:22:44):
A lot of those.
Other contracts, but we're talkingabout the main agreement today.
So, how are you feeling as a memberof the National Negotiating Team
and Support Services director?
As a member of the NationalNegotiating Team I think we did an
excellent job over the past two years.
We started this process twoyears ago at least, preparing and
researching, trying to figure outwhat direction we wanted to go.

(01:23:07):
we had no idea the headwinds wemade face, but we had concerns,
so we had to strategize.
Around all those potential problems basedon what's happened over the last year,
and especially the last couple of months,I feel we've got a very, very, very good
contract to send out to the membershipfor ratification as article 40 and 41.
we've maintained everything that wehave gained in the past with no changes.

(01:23:28):
That's right.
As well as we have, grade threesunder Article 40 who will be
upgraded to grade fours under thecontract in September of 2026.
Great.
Mm-hmm.
Great.
And of course.
All of the, members that you representunder 40, article 40 and 41 full COLA?
Full COLA Full COLA affects them.
The general wage increases, affect them.

(01:23:50):
the no change in healthbenefits affect them.
All of the, the economics,that go across the board.
Applied to articles 40 and 41.
And all the job security,no layoff protections?
That's correct.
All the job security, no layoff.
That applies to 40 and 41 as well.
Yeah.
Brother Cash and I had talked earlierabout the significance of covering
those who are not yet at six years,but who are career employees on

(01:24:13):
the rolls of September, 2024 willnow be covered under the no layoff
provision for the life of the contract.
So that affects your Folks as well.
Right?
That does affect us.
Anyone under Article 40 or 41.
They will have that six yearprotection of, of no layoff.
So that impacts our group as well forsupport services in the main agreement.
Great.
Mm-hmm.
Well, I know, I know you and Iboth, feel that this is well worth

(01:24:35):
the ratification vote A yes vote.
Of course.
It's up to the members as it should be.
The union belongs to all ofyou Folks who are listening.
So, thanks so much for joining us.
More importantly, thanks for all yourterrific work as a, as a national,
negotiating committee member.
Alright, thanks Arrion.
Alright.
Thank you brother.
And thank you for your leadership and theythank you for the contract that we have.

(01:24:55):
Well, of course, as we know, and I, Iknow you believe this too, the reason we
have the tentative agreement is becausewe have members that are the foundation
of the union and that's what forcesmanagement to have to deal with us.
A hundred percent agree.
So,
Good deal.
Thanks a lot.
Oh, you're welcome.
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(01:25:20):
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