April 30, 2024 • 41 mins
Welcome back to Aquarium of the Podcific! We are off to a ray-ly good start this season with Aquarist Sarah Nevarez. Sarah talks about her experience caring for the aquarium's rays, their behaviors, feeding, enrichment activities, and personalities.
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Episode Transcript
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Erin Lundy (00:05):
Hi, I'm Erin Lundy.
Madeline Walden (00:07):
And I'm Madeline Walden and this is
Aquarium of the Podcific (00:09):
Aquarium of the Podcific.
Madeline Walden (00:11):
A podcast brought to you by Aquarium of
the Podcific. SouthernCalifornia's largest aquarium.
Erin Lundy (00:15):
Join us as we learn alongside the experts in animal
care, conservation and more.
Welcome back to Aquarium of thePodcific. We made it to season
twwwwwo
if you can't tell that is alarge crowd of people cheering
in the backgorund.
Madeline Walden (00:33):
studio audience today
Erin Lundy (00:34):
Yeah, totally live. Totally not just recording this
in an empty studio, with just ustwo. Speaking of I'm Erin Lundy.
I'm the conservation coordinatorfor mammals and birds.
Madeline Walden (00:43):
And I'm Madeline Walden, the aquariums
digital content and communitymanager.
Erin Lundy (00:48):
What have we been up to since season one launched a
lot of jobs? Yeah. There's beena lot going on other jobs. Yeah,
you've been up to a lot, a lot alot. We've had a lot of
different conservation projectsthat we've been working on.
We've had our mountain yellowlegged frogs continuing to grow
and be awesome here, working onsome new habitats and stuff for
some of our animals. So we havea lot of exciting things
(01:10):
happening this summer. But fornow, we just wanted to make sure
Season Two gets brought to yourears. I know it's been a minute,
and we can hear a little bitmore about our animals, which
I'm so excited about. I missedthose stories. I know. It's so
fun. So tricking our co workersinto talking about, hey,
whenever
I think it works great.
Madeline Walden (01:28):
I think they do it's really fun.
Erin Lundy (01:30):
Today we want to talk about one of the animals
that is in actually quite a fewexhibits at the aquarium. They
are rays. And rays are prettycool animals that are pretty
closely related to sharks, whichI don't think a lot of people
know. They are a cartilaginousfish, which is how I am often
described as
Madeline Walden (01:49):
I have heard that
Erin Lundy (01:51):
going around. Yeah, there's a rumor about it. This
Madeline Walden (01:55):
is a really cool episode i It's surprising
and not surprising that Ray'sget a ton of love on social
media. We talked a little bitabout it in the episode, but
they're there with the seaotters and the mammals here at
the Aquarium and even offersharks sometimes.
Erin Lundy (02:12):
Even though they're there because it says there's a
popular cousin there the flatsharks, sharks, so therefore
sharks are still popular becausethey're just flat sharks.
Exactly. Today, we're gonna betalking to Sarah Nevarez, who is
one of our aquarists who helpsto take care of our race and
she's going to tell us all aboutwhat it looks like to take care
of the flattest sharks of all.
Madeline Walden (02:32):
She's so knowledgeable. I really love
this episode. I know I learned alot. And I know you are too.
Erin Lundy (02:37):
Yeah, I think it's a really great episode. And I'm
excited for everyone and I'mexcited to be back with you. I
am excited to be back. It hasbeen so long that this intro
we're like are we good?
Madeline Walden (02:48):
Do we need to do this? Do we remember how to
talk? But then we put theheadphones on and we're like,
oh, yeah, talk we can reallyhear or, or big metal.
Erin Lundy (02:57):
This is metal yapping. But anyway, without
further ado, let's get into ourepisode. For today on our
podcast, we have Sarah Nevarez,who works with our rays. Hi,
Sarah. How are you?
Sarah Nevarez (03:10):
Hello, I'm great.
Erin Lundy (03:11):
What is your job title here at the Aquarium?
Sarah Nevarez (03:13):
I am an aquarist one here at the Aquarium and
I've been paid staff for abouttwo years. But I was a volunteer
diver before that for fouryears.
Erin Lundy (03:21):
Oh, I didn't think I knew that. Before. So our dive
program does have volunteers,which is awesome. And what level
of dive certification? Do youneed to be a dive volunteer
here?
Sarah Nevarez (03:31):
You have to be at least rescue certified. So
that's, I think the third levelof certification and you have to
have 50 logged ocean dives. Oh,wow. Which is quite a quite a
lot. Lot. Yeah, but we do do alot here. We were doing feedings
we're doing presentation. So yougot to be kind of moving the
whole time and be a goodexperienced diver. But it's
ultimately what got me my jobhere. So that's true. All I
Erin Lundy (03:52):
heard was hairs like an amazing. So basically, I'm
the best diver you've ever seen.So did you start working with or
around some of our rays when youwere a volunteer diver,
Sarah Nevarez (04:01):
the only thing I can remember is sometimes the
volunteer divers will go intothe RE pool exhibit and clean so
I remember this was probablyback in 2017 Getting in and a
wetsuit and like doing thestingray shuffle as they call it
and just walking around andbeing careful and just scrubbing
the walls and the rocks.
Erin Lundy (04:18):
So the stingray shuffle is not a term I had ever
heard until I moved toCalifornia. Oh right. Yeah, and
people are now just likeeveryone knows the stingray
shuffle so for listeners whomight not be familiar what
exactly
Sarah Nevarez (04:28):
is the shuffle so it's not a cool dance that you
do for no reason and make it acool dance. Yeah. So beaches in
California here super populatedwith little round rays and it's
can be dangerous. So youbasically instead of walking
normally on the sand, youshuffle your feet so that
whatever rays are in the sandwill feel those vibrations and
take off and be away from youand you don't step on anybody.
(04:52):
Human being stung and the
Erin Lundy (04:53):
Wrangler, right it's like oh, what has been your
favorite part of your job sofar?
Sarah Nevarez (04:59):
So far, I recently got checked out to be a
field divers. So yes, I am partof the team that will go out and
collect animals or go do surveysout in the open ocean for our
research projects, such as ourabalone project that we're doing
with a bunch of differentpartners. So that's been really
fun to get out there and feellike a real scientist. on
(05:22):
Avalon. Sometimes we do, we'llrun what's called transects,
which looks like a big measuringtape underwater and you run it a
certain direction, certainlocation, and you're counting
things on each side, or you'resurveying or doing things like
that. Yeah, on our last time, wereleased a bunch of baby white
abalone, which was so cool tosee. Yeah,
Erin Lundy (05:41):
I think we're going to talk about abalone in a
future episode. Yes, ourparticipation looks like so this
is your preview.
Madeline Walden (05:49):
Of abalone abalone
Erin Lundy (05:52):
abalone teaser? So it sounds like you did get your
start sort of in our dive area.But how did you start working
specifically with rays? Did youhave any specific experience
that led you to that?
Sarah Nevarez (06:04):
It's kind of funny when I started, I remember
my first day I was being shownaround by my supervisor. And she
was basically telling me whatexhibits I was gonna have.
Because in my position, I'm incharge of four to five exhibits.
And we walked up to a pool andshe was like, this is yours. I
just took it over. I mean, I'vebeen around. Like I said,
before, I've been around therays and stuff. And I know about
(06:25):
their anatomy, I have my degreein marine biology. So I have
like, very intro rightknowledge. But that's pretty
much how I got the gist given tome. And I've had it the whole
time I've been here. And I'veloved it. It's super cool. I
Erin Lundy (06:37):
think one of my favorite things about working in
husbandry, and that sort of hasbeen a universal experience for
everyone is, you know, a lot ofpeople come up to me, they're
like, You must have loved frogsgetting into this. And I'm just
like, No, someone one day justwas like, hey, we need to help
you seem like you like plants.And probably animals, like, do
you want to help with this? Andof course, I didn't, you know,
like, I love learning newthings. But there was no initial
(06:58):
passion for amphibians. And nowyears later, it's like such an
ingrained part of my wholepersonality. To How did this
happen all of a sudden, and youknow, like that mountain yellow
legged frog project is so much apart of what I do here. But if
you had asked me five years ago,oh, how interested are you in
frogs? I would have said, not atall. They're They're cute. I
(07:20):
like them, but I know nothingabout them. And I think that's
almost a misconception, becauselike, how can you possibly come
into this field with the levelof expertise that you need to
learn like to know about ray,you know, it's not a pet animal,
it's not an animal you couldhave kept. But you know, one day
you were assigned ray pool, andall of these rays are your
responsibility. And then thepassion sort of follows, which I
think is cool. But it must,what's that learning curve?
(07:41):
Like, for you?
Sarah Nevarez (07:42):
It's very intimidating. And a lot of
things too, you can only learnabout these animals when you're
working with them this true?Yeah, so we just finished up
welfare assessments for our raysevery year, we whale them and we
measure them and we do a visualinspection. And so the first
time I we did that we weighedall of them. Big scale. We use
(08:03):
the otter scale the first timeit's so weird. You don't realize
how heavy they are. Until How
Erin Lundy (08:09):
heavy are they?
Sarah Nevarez (08:10):
I think our heaviest one is 27 kilograms.
Erin Lundy (08:13):
Wow. 60 pounds? Yeah.
Sarah Nevarez (08:17):
I think that's steady. Yeah. But yeah, so like,
I didn't know how much weight orre weighed.
Erin Lundy (08:25):
That's hard to say.
Sarah Nevarez (08:26):
I didn't know how much a re weighed. You know, I'm
taking it out of the water.Yeah. So Well, yeah. The longer
I'm with the tank and with theanimals, the more I learn about
them. Yeah, that's just that'sjust how it
Erin Lundy (08:36):
is. So much of it is such like niche knowledge to
have like, oh, for this ray, thebest way to carry this animals
that and you're like, how wouldI have ever come in with that
information? Yeah. But I thinkit's really cool. And I love
that people sort of getassignments, and then part of
the assignments, essentiallylearn about the animals and do
everything you can to providethe best possible care. And of
course, we have guidance, and wehave like husbandry care
(08:58):
manuals, and things like that,but so much of it is like on the
job learning. Yeah, I thinkthat's really cool. Yeah, but
since you know so much aboutrays, we are going to be asking
lots of questions, since I'm anexpert on rays. Yeah. So who are
our current rays? Like, whatspecies do you take care of, of
our sting rays. So
Sarah Nevarez (09:14):
in Ray touchable, we have the bat rays with the
main attraction. We have six ofthem. They all have names, but
we'll get to that in a second.We have three little round rays.
And so those are the ones thatyou're you might find on the
beaches here in SouthernCalifornia around there. That's
yes, they're gonna round raysthere. I don't know, maybe four
or five inches across, andthey're the brown colors that
(09:35):
you see like brown light brown,they camouflage really well in
the sand. And then we have ashovelnose guitarfish and Ray
pool as well. It's kind of theone that's like, it doesn't look
like a typical Ray.
Madeline Walden (09:48):
It looks like the shovelnose guitarfish you
just draw it Yeah, just
Sarah Nevarez (09:53):
draw you think that is?
Madeline Walden (09:55):
Probably yeah, you're
Erin Lundy (09:56):
so right. Yeah. Is
it considered a ray
Sarah Nevarez (10:00):
I think so. Okay. Yeah,
Erin Lundy (10:01):
there's some confusing like rays and sharks
and the
Sarah Nevarez (10:05):
terminology related. Yes, skate is a whole
other thing. Stay tuned for theStay tuned for skate episode
another preview. Then, okay,shovelnose guitarfish. Weirdo
and then to sturgeon, which arethe big fish in there.
Erin Lundy (10:20):
We get asked a lot of questions about the sturgeon
fish or sturgeons,
Sarah Nevarez (10:29):
the big boy or girl, I don't know, actually the
big old, the big sturgeon maybearound 10 or 12. Oh, wow, I
think that goes off of when wegot them and everything. The
smaller one, she's a littlefemale, and probably four or
five. Okay, but again, that's avery big growth area rough
estimate. They grow slow. Andand yeah. But the bat rays in a
(10:51):
pool have names and all thenames are based off what their
tail looks like, because there'sno other way to name them. To
tell them how often we tellthem. So we have s whose tail
shaped like an S, we have curlwho has a little curl at the end
of her tail. Tiny is thesmallest one clean when we added
(11:12):
as opposed to as opposed toeveryone else, so ungrateful.
They're kind of their biganimals, they can be a little
rough with each other. Sosometimes we'll have little
scratches on them. I think whenclean was added, she was like
one of the newer ones with noscratches. So I seen she was
pristine and clean. Yeah, wehave stubby, which we mentioned
(11:33):
before, and stubby has theshortest tail and then we have
kink who has a little kink atthe end of her tail. Okay, so
you
Erin Lundy (11:39):
can't like if you looked at the majority of their
body, it would be hard to tellthem apart. Yes, but the tail is
very tail. If
Sarah Nevarez (11:46):
there's no tail, then you need to help because
there's no way you're gonna tellthem this, but that's fair.
Madeline Walden (11:52):
Yeah. Well, then it would be none. That
would be their name. Yes, None.None. None. Tail.
Erin Lundy (11:59):
No, we don't have a none. We
Madeline Walden (12:00):
don't have one that no, no.
Erin Lundy (12:02):
Do the round race of names. No.
Sarah Nevarez (12:10):
No, they just don't. I was thinking of a way
that I could maybe kind of tellthem for but no, no, because
they're all similar size to. And
Erin Lundy (12:18):
I mean, they're like exactly sand colored. You're
like I could see how someonewould step on that. And that's
why this thing right
Sarah Nevarez (12:23):
shuffle is very important. The Bat rays if you
can't see that, then you needhelp, again,
Erin Lundy (12:30):
four feet across. Totally different color than the
sand. But I understand when Ilooked at the round rays
why that's important. Speakingof their tails are their
stingers on their tail. So we
Sarah Nevarez (12:43):
refer to it as a barb. Okay. I know it's called
Stingray. I know it's calledsting, right, but the barb is
actually at the base of thetail. So they should be called
barbed rays, I'm changing theirname to barbed rays. The barb is
at the base of their tail. So ifyou look at the body and just
where the tail starts to comeoff the body, you'll see a
(13:06):
little barb A lot of the rays inRay pool are pretty old. They're
around 2020 years old. Oh, yeah,some of them are charter
animals. They've been with theaquarium since we opened. So
over time that barb, we trim itso that it can't hurt people. So
some of the reason peopleactually don't even have their
bars anymore. Sometimes if wetrim it down, or sometimes it'll
grow crooked, so we have toremove the bar. So it doesn't
(13:27):
hurt the animal anymore. So agood majority of them I think
four or five of them don't evenhave barks or just like a smooth
little part on their tail. Butwe always keep it clipped so
that no one gets
Madeline Walden (13:38):
described as kind of like a fingernail. Yeah,
back. So does it does it hurtthe animal or does it cause any
other issues? No, I'm in a, youknow habitat where it doesn't
have to defend itself I'massuming right? Not necessary.
Sarah Nevarez (13:50):
Um, it's kind of like a dog's nail. You know how
you can't cut too far. Otherwiseyou'll get the quick so we cut
just kind of at the end whereit's pointing. It doesn't bleed
or anything it doesn't hurt theanimal and you're just cutting
off the sharp part of the nailor the sharp hair the barb
manicure Exactly. And yet theyif they don't have to use them
in the rate and the rate pool,they're they're fine without it.
(14:11):
Yeah, it's perceived. Does
Erin Lundy (14:12):
it feel like if you get stung if Oh,
Sarah Nevarez (14:15):
it depends on the species. So if we're thinking of
more common ways to get stungout here with the little round
rays if you get barbed I guess.strong willed.
Erin Lundy (14:26):
I've been barred if
Sarah Nevarez (14:28):
you get hurt by Ray by a little round Ray I know
if you pour hot water over it'sjust it's irritating and it
hurts but it's not like gonnadie or anything Yeah, I'm
assuming a battery because it isa bigger animal will probably be
more painful. And again thetreatment for that is probably
hot water until you can go tothe hospital if you need to eat
at a hospital for I know thathe's worse. Sure and they're
(14:51):
here and they're huge reason thewild can get up to 7080 pounds I
think oh ours are ours are 5060Probably but They can get big
and they can get, I think sixfeet and wingspan which is my
height. Very tall person.
Erin Lundy (15:07):
So everyone says six feet tall. Yeah. Just imagine
that. Oh, that's why you're incharge of them. Yeah. That's why
they do supervisor was like, Youseem exactly like, let's put you
in charge of them. Yeah. So haveyou ever been stung by a ray in
general? I have not ever in yourlife are all 50 Plus
Sarah Nevarez (15:30):
my 5000 million dives I've done never been
stung. No. Yeah, bat rays areusually they're not ones are
rays in general are not animalsto go and attack you. It's
pretty much only if, like wesaid, if you're stepped on, or
if you're kind of in their area,or you're reaching down and you
accidentally are near them, thenthey will whip their tail around
and get you with the farm. Sothey're not aggressive animals.
Erin Lundy (15:51):
They're so like, there's such interesting animals
because like to think that thisthing is related to a shark. And
like I hear people describe themas like a sea pancake, or you
know, like, they're so flat,they look so different than a
shark. What are some of thesimilarities or characteristics
that they have in common withother elasmobranchs? Like, what
do you see across that family?So
Sarah Nevarez (16:11):
yes, they related to sharks. They both sharks and
rays have their skeleton is notmade out of bone, it's actually
made out of cartilage. So itmakes them very smooth in the
water. It makes them veryflexible and easy to fit into
maybe smaller spaces, butthey're a lot more aerodynamic
that way more water dynamic.
Erin Lundy (16:30):
I want to call everything water. What did I
make? I loved it. So
Sarah Nevarez (16:33):
that's one of the main things that sets that short
summaries have in common.
Erin Lundy (16:37):
Scott has a question. Ready? Welcome
Madeline Walden (16:40):
Scott to the podcast.
Sarah Nevarez (16:41):
Yeah.
Erin Lundy (16:42):
And a ray nerd. And a rock nerd and a shark tooth
nerd. Yeah.
Scott Shaw (16:47):
Sharks. I know, if you turn them over, they go into
the tonic immobility, but dorays do the same.
Sarah Nevarez (16:52):
I believe some species do. I honestly have
never flipped one of thebatteries over because I would
get slapped in the face. Orsomeone being like, what are you
doing? And then by double yes,they're flat. They're very
strong. Like I mentioned when wedo the assessments, and we have
(17:13):
to handle them and weigh themand all that it takes a couple
people. So that's an excellentquestion. But I believe some do,
yes. It's
Erin Lundy (17:22):
funny because sometimes I'll walk over by
their a pool and they'll justlike slap the water so hard that
they cause like those tidalwaves through a pool, so I can't
even imagine that like on yourbody.
Sarah Nevarez (17:34):
Yeah, and the more they're kind of routine is
in the mornings, they're verysplashy, they will be up against
the wall. We think they've justalways done that. It's usually
in the morning when I feed them.And then in the afternoon,
they're worn out and they'resleeping. Exhausted. So yeah,
sometimes in the morning, itjust sounds like someone
Madeline Walden (17:54):
has mistakenly sat there like waiting for to go
into pinnipeds or some flashthough and just fully gotten
splash. Yeah, this is my fault.Thank you for thank you for the
good morning. Wake up. Yeah. Itwas just refreshing. Yeah. wet
pants. That's pretty common foryou guys. I'm sure Oh, yeah.
Yeah, wet pants. That's justokay.
Erin Lundy (18:13):
I'm pretty sure I've seen Sarah in fully inside of
the REI pool more than anyoneelse. Because usually, like go
with regular plants in awetsuit, typically, but I'm not
in uniform.
Sarah Nevarez (18:27):
No, really, I have and you won't, and I won't
and I'm just manifesting that.Well, okay, it doesn't count if
Okay, so they count when I go inthe exhibit, I'll be either in a
wetsuit or in like fishingwaders that come up to I don't
know, my stomach. And so I wasdoing something and I slipped. I
can't sorry. Okay. And some ofthe water got into the it wasn't
(18:52):
the whole thing. But sotechnically, yes, I have fallen
while I was inside. And
Erin Lundy (18:57):
you got water in your pants. My pants and my
pants are all wet. We have toget in the waiters to clean the
pinnipeds, Windows sills andceiling window and there was the
one worst thing is I found outthere was a hole in the butt of
the waiters because Parker'sswim by and I just got so much
water down. My pants was like,Ah,
Scott Shaw (19:17):
I had that happen when I was working on Trump up
in the exhibit because the audiobox you actually have to go
down. And I leaned down too farto pick up something and water
just filled the way. Oh, no, Ilive in here now. Yeah, that was
my day. Yeah,
Sarah Nevarez (19:31):
all of your clothes are wet. It's not like a
wet sock or anything. No, likeyour whole body.
Erin Lundy (19:37):
You're just full of water. You're basically in like
a woman exhibit. I'm in thepool. Cool. Well, in terms so
you talked a little bit abouthow some of our batteries are 25
plus years old have been at theaquarium since we open How long
do rays live? Are they're verylong lived species is a species
dependent.
Sarah Nevarez (19:54):
Its species dependent, bigger way bigger
species like species of mantarayI'm assuming live wait longer,
but battery lifespan is about 25years. In captivity, they
probably live longer, which iswhy the ones that we've had for
so long are still kicking andslashing. Everybody still
splashing. They're consideredolder animals. Yeah,
Erin Lundy (20:16):
I know. One of the questions that one of our
listeners had was what are thedifferences between sting rays
in manta rays? So manta
Sarah Nevarez (20:24):
rays are those big, big pelagic, meaning
midwater species that you seepeople diving with? They have
the big oral lobes that theytake in their food with and
they're there. They're giant oneday I will. One day I will
snorkel with manta rays when
Madeline Walden (20:40):
I've done it either, but I know I've seen
some of our colleagues have goneand shared the most amazing
picture. Yeah, it doesn't evenlook real like No, it looks like
just a sea monster. Yeah. But afew months at least have them
painted on the front of theaquarium, even though we didn't
have manta rays
Sarah Nevarez (20:54):
here, this misleading. Still very pretty
like the front end.
Madeline Walden (20:57):
So before PV, we had a muralist from I think
it was from Portugal. Come itwas part of like the Long Beach,
like walls project. It waspretty. It was really, really
cool. I'll send you a pictureand yeah,
Sarah Nevarez (21:10):
I don't remember that. Yeah, this was pre PvE.
Creatively 2016. I
Madeline Walden (21:15):
think it was my first year that went up.
Sarah Nevarez (21:17):
It was that's when I started diving. Yeah, no.
Manta Rays giant no barb. Oralsting rays are usually smaller.
They're more benthic. So they'remore on the bottom as opposed to
manta rays and more pelagic inthe water column. And stingrays
Madeline Walden (21:33):
have bark and bark.
Unknown (21:34):
How are
Erin Lundy (21:35):
so serious typically, like I know we have a
species pelagic rays?
Sarah Nevarez (21:40):
Yep. Oh, yes. Yes. Sorry. Yes. Oh, I forgot
about Sansa.
Erin Lundy (21:43):
We do have a flood. Oh, yes. So I know we have
pelagic rays, which are astingray that is pelagic. So
they sort of deviate from thenorm of what stingrays do. But
do stingrays? Are they shapedlike that? And their mouth is on
the bottom? Like, is that afeeding thing for them or a
defense thing? Like why are theyat the bottom?
Sarah Nevarez (22:03):
Well, yes. So first, I forgot about sonza,
which is our pelagic ray in raypool. We do have one. And so she
Madeline Walden (22:09):
over one more time,
Sarah Nevarez (22:10):
let pelagic Yes, pelagic is describing the water
column. So you're not at thevery surface of the water.
You're not in the sand in thebenthic zone. You are in the
pelagic. So you're kind of inthe big, open blue water. The
Zone jellies or jellies arepelagic species. Dolphins are
pelagic species. Most whales arepelagic species. Yeah. So our
(22:31):
pleasure gray is named sonza.And she does have a barb in her
mouth is on the bottom, liketraditional stingrays, but she
lives in the pelagic zone. Sofor our bat rays, all have an
other benthic species, all oftheir food is usually going to
be found in the sand. And so batrays will use their little like
kind of the tip of their noselike a little shovel and go
(22:51):
through the sand and getdifferent mussels, clams, things
that live in the sand, andthat's what they eat. And I
don't know about pelagic,pelagic graze will eat things
that are in theirs pelagic zone,like midwater column midwater
column. Yeah, sounds it does eatoff the bottom occasionally.
Madeline Walden (23:11):
I was gonna ask, do you see like kind of a
difference in behavior and theway she eats compared to the
other race?
Sarah Nevarez (23:16):
It's very cute. So sonza is the light of my
life, if you can't tell. So whenso we got her when she was very
little. She's about three orfour years old right now. And so
before she was the size she isnow she would kind of we would
target her and she would eatseparate from all the rain so
that we ensure that she actuallygot food. And she would come to
the surface with her littleface, and then we would give her
(23:38):
with tongs, food, and then shekind of flips on her back and
swims backwards and she'll useher pectoral fins to kind of
like, bring food to her mouth.So think of like a little taco
being folded. She would Yeah,she would do that. Use her wings
and kind of get food andsometimes I would throw food
onto her little mouth when she'son the surface. And this will
(23:59):
kind of flip and come back anddo the same thing.
Madeline Walden (24:01):
So we'll see pancakes, see tacos, taco.
We'd call them see ravioli. Seeravioli?
That's
Unknown (24:08):
a good one. You like little baby ones? Yeah.
Erin Lundy (24:11):
It just reminds me when you like to throw a cheese
ball in your friend's mouth.That's exactly what I would do.
Yes, sorry. Little pieces ofclam and Yes.
Sarah Nevarez (24:20):
Yes. So backtracking to that's how
pelagic rays eat. They use theirthey use their wings. They use
their wings to catch some video
Madeline Walden (24:26):
of that lock to post along with it. Yeah, and
release this. It's real cute.
Sarah Nevarez (24:31):
Yeah, she's my favorite.
Erin Lundy (24:33):
Wow, can you tell just right out there. We're
gonna tell all about rays.They're fine. Do our rays ever
breed here?
Sarah Nevarez (24:41):
So we have all female rays? When female and
male elasmobranchs sharks andrays are together. The males are
extremely aggressive to thefemales. Yes, because yes, very
rude. Because they're trying tomate and so They'll grab their
wings, though. Yeah, it's very,very intense.
Erin Lundy (25:04):
Need a sorority only? Yes, males are alone
together.
Sarah Nevarez (25:08):
So all of the boundaries that we have are
actually all male. And they'refine. Yeah, they're fine. But
it's when you have the samespecies of different sects that
you get crazy.
Erin Lundy (25:17):
I remember one of the cownose rays was pregnant.
At some point, what is apregnant Ray look like? How can
you tell?
Madeline Walden (25:25):
They're just choppy? They just have like,
chop chop? Yeah, the countlessways they just you can see a
little, little tummy on them.It's
Erin Lundy (25:32):
really seen. Well, that's interesting. So we need
to keep same sex of the samespecies together. Yeah. Just
Sarah Nevarez (25:38):
to prevent? Yeah. Any injuries or issues?
Erin Lundy (25:42):
Are they? Do you consider them to be like a
pretty intelligent species? Doyou do any training with them?
Sarah Nevarez (25:48):
I do. Like we mentioned before I we would
sonza We would do the targettraining. So she would come up
and II so that you can targettrain them, you can Station
Train them. We had a couple ofbatteries in blue cavern cup,
maybe I think last year, andthey were able to come to the
little target with and the diverwas able to feed them. Yeah,
they they're intelligent to thatpoint. But not, I mean, not like
(26:10):
a GPO or something.
Erin Lundy (26:12):
Yeah, for sure for what they need. What they need,
they get around,
Sarah Nevarez (26:15):
they splash around, and they're fine. Yeah,
Madeline Walden (26:17):
what a life.
Erin Lundy (26:18):
What was the last
question I wanted to ask aboutsort of our rays in general, do
you find that they eachindividually have their own
personality? And like, what sortof enrichment Do you provide to
sort of keep them mentallystimulated.
Sarah Nevarez (26:31):
So whenever I am in the exhibit, either with
waiters that are not flooding orwith that I'm not falling, and
sometimes I'll put food on thebottom and then put kind of like
a weighted net over looks like abig square net, and they'll kind
of have to dig through. And kindof it's whatever high school
feeder Yeah, it's exactly like apuzzle feeder, like a cotton
(26:51):
ball. Whatever you can do tostimulate their natural way of
eating is a great type ofnourishment. So they're using
those little plate teeth andthey're shuffled little noses to
get the food out from under thatnet. And they really like it.
But in terms of personality, Isometimes relate their
personality with their nameslash with their tail looks like
Erin Lundy (27:12):
so. Tiny just head to tiny.
Sarah Nevarez (27:16):
She's Yeah, she's not kind of one of the more I
don't know. Not aggressivebecause when when I feed them,
they get very crazy and they'renot being mean or to each other
and kind of excited. Yeah. AndTiny is kind of the one that
will stay back a little. Thebiggest one is are stubby Yeah,
the biggest one is stubby andshe'll kind of be more excited,
(27:36):
but other than that, they'rekind of all the same. So I know
those are all female, but whatis the sexual dimorphism? With
rays? So with rays just likewith sharks, the females on her
underside, she's just gonna haveevent and then the male has to
clasp errs. Oh, which lookedlike yeah, kind of elongated
fins. Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah.And the small round, rays the
(27:57):
males, you can see theirclaspers, even when they're
right side up. Where
Erin Lundy (28:01):
is it relative to their barb, their claspers
Sarah Nevarez (28:05):
it's basically the same location but on the
other side and underside ofthem. Okay, yeah, kind of at the
base of the tail ish, but theclasperes will come out towards
their tail. Okay. And the ventis kind of right before their
tail on their main body.
Madeline Walden (28:19):
So rays are really just kind of like a
shark. Kind of pancaked. Yeah.Yeah. It's question
Erin Lundy (28:25):
all like fins. They just like
Sarah Nevarez (28:28):
everything melts into one pool.
Scott Shaw (28:30):
You can't remember if you already said this, but
they have teeth. Yeah, so theyhave
Sarah Nevarez (28:34):
Yeah, since they're eating hardshell items,
mostly that are in the sand,they have kind of their teeth
are flat, kind of like twoplates, like two blank grinding
plates that are against eachother, and they'll kind of grind
them together and to crush upthe shells. And then they'll eat
the meat and spit out theshells. So it's not like
traditional shark's teeth, likethe pointy scary things. Very
(28:56):
messy. If you go up to a pooland you see the shells in there,
that's because I haven't takenthem out. But she's working on
it, but I'm working on it. Okay.
Erin Lundy (29:05):
But I know that like similar to sharks that do sort
of like have teeth that replacetheir teeth, like I've found the
re like dermal or dental platesor whatever they're called,
like, I found those in the sandbefore how like frequently are
they like dropping those?
Sarah Nevarez (29:21):
I don't think it's very frequent but I know
that they will replace themcontinuously. Okay, as they
Yeah, as they lose
Madeline Walden (29:27):
them as often as sharks do necessarily.
Sarah Nevarez (29:29):
I don't I don't believe so.
Erin Lundy (29:30):
I wish that if my teeth they just come back
Sarah Nevarez (29:34):
not to get like a crown. Yeah. I'm just gonna free
tooth Yeah, they don't. They'renot gonna come back.
Erin Lundy (29:39):
No, Natalie and bad news. Those are your last ones.
That's it.
Madeline Walden (29:44):
I'm assuming you know with it. It's probably
a lot more work to grow up platethan it is a tooth continuously,
so probably a little less often.
Erin Lundy (29:52):
Speak for yourself. How many of you grow plates over
there? I have a lot of plates.Don't worry. Well, Oh, that's
sort of what I wanted to askyou. But I wanted to know what
your favorite story has beenpersonally working with the
race. What is your favoritething about working with them?
Or what is your best race story?
Sarah Nevarez (30:12):
My best race story. I love working with the
rays. Because whenever they'reone of the first exhibits I go
to in the morning, and they'rejust always so excited. And
always, even though they'resplashing and getting me wet or
whatever, they're still just, Idon't know, they're very
routine, and they kind of do thesame thing every day, which is
comforting to me. Yeah, itsounds weird, but and then
(30:33):
whenever I go up and feed them,and as soon as I throw food in
there, all common, they're allThey're just so happy to be
eating and like, Okay, same, butI just love how I mean, we
talked about how they don'treally have like, specific
personalities, but I do like howthey're all kind of just little,
little cows and they just kindof do their own thing and, and
(30:53):
they're really cute. So, David,good to be here. Yeah, they have
a good demeanor. Exactly. Sweet.Yeah.
Erin Lundy (30:59):
Madeline, we'll go over some of the questions we
had from our listeners andsocial media. And we have some
really great questions.
Madeline Walden (31:06):
Great questions, especially this first
one, which is, how silly arethey?
Erin Lundy (31:12):
scale of one to 10 1040? No.
Sarah Nevarez (31:16):
I would say they're kind of silly. I mean,
it was flashes against the wallfor no reason. Yeah.
Madeline Walden (31:22):
I just got those little smiley faces.
Sarah Nevarez (31:24):
I mean, they don't call them like ravioli or
cake.
Madeline Walden (31:29):
Yeah. That's amazing. Um, how do they sleep?
Sarah Nevarez (31:33):
They will usually if I mean, sometimes they do it
and read pool but out in thewild, too. They will kind of
bury themselves under the sandwith their wings to hide
themselves. And they just kindof chill on the bottom. Yeah. In
the alimony? Yes. In theafternoon. Here at the aquarium
they will just be all kind ofcuddled together all kind of
touching beings sometimes. Andwe just hang out there.
Madeline Walden (31:56):
Separately from the conversation, or the
questions from social media.Rays are a social media
favorite. Like more than sharks.Shallow. Like I think if it were
the Order, order of like kind ofour most like what gets the most
engagement on social media. It'sotters Of course. pinnipeds and
(32:16):
then rays like above octopusesrays perform now.
Erin Lundy (32:24):
Let's see, Brooke, listen.
Madeline Walden (32:26):
I wanted to get your perspective on like, why
you think that is? I mean,they're cool, obviously, but But
why do you think they're so upthere? Why do you think they're
so engaging?
Sarah Nevarez (32:35):
I think rays are just like we talked about their,
their shape is just so silly.And I think a lot of times
they're either in cartoons, Ithink they're just very, a very
easy animal for kids to identifyand to kind of know since
childhood, so I mean, thatwouldn't they're so cool. So
yeah,
Madeline Walden (32:53):
that's awesome. Yeah. Do you have a favorite
race species? Baby like itdoesn't have to be one that
you've been work with? Becausesounds like sounds like yes,
yeah, that's
Sarah Nevarez (33:02):
my heart I would say I love in the shark lagoon
which was I love the blue spotrays. They are beautiful. They
don't even look real. Yeah, likethey look like someone painted
blue. Yeah, we did not we didnot paint. Yeah, no, no
painting. This
Madeline Walden (33:21):
is a natural. Stop it
Erin Lundy (33:23):
and painting them blue. It just counters
Madeline Walden (33:28):
exclusive species at the Aquarium of the
Pacific.
Sarah Nevarez (33:33):
They just I don't know they look like yeah, like
so.
Erin Lundy (33:36):
Thank you. Great job. Great
Sarah Nevarez (33:38):
job. They all look so cute.
Erin Lundy (33:40):
They're really really cool. Are they more
venomous like why are they blue?Is it a warning coloration it
Sarah Nevarez (33:46):
Yeah, I mean it might it might be a warning
coloration is I don't know whenthat habitat where those rays
live but that wouldn't surpriseme if that's why they were so
like kind of unnaturally. Yeah,it's like
Erin Lundy (33:57):
almost like fluorescent
Madeline Walden (33:58):
yeah look at them shiny. Do you have a ray
that you would like to work withthem in the future or a species
have one already here or a dreamone that we would like brought
in doesn't have to be PacificOcean animal either sweet
babies.
Sarah Nevarez (34:12):
I do love whenever I remember my head.
Whenever I dive in Shark lagoonI do love diving with the giant
reticulated ray that we have.She's such she's so big. She
does the
Madeline Walden (34:24):
animal at the aquarium in size and weight and
she doesn't let belongs toParker.
Sarah Nevarez (34:28):
Oh, right. Parker's I don't know. 800
pounds or something. And it'smax
Erin Lundy (34:32):
leave him alone. But still so big and he's heavy.
He's 850 Okay,
Madeline Walden (34:37):
but the ridiculous I have such a hard
time saying particularly retake.Retake rate. Yeah, she's about
like, 400 Wow. That's 11 feetlong. Biggest pancake.
Erin Lundy (34:49):
11 feet long. Yeah. That's to Sarah's
Sarah Nevarez (34:52):
I know. Can you Yeah,
Madeline Walden (34:54):
that's a huge
Erin Lundy (34:56):
everything everywhere. I get
Sarah Nevarez (35:02):
to what a dream
Erin Lundy (35:04):
long right? So how long is her body? Because her
body is not 11 feet? No, that'slike
Sarah Nevarez (35:10):
her tail is very long. So I don't know how long
her her long her body is, but Ithink it's majority
Madeline Walden (35:15):
tail. Jordan her body's still
Erin Lundy (35:18):
10 feet of tail and
Madeline Walden (35:21):
that's kind of like the eagle. Glorious. I
mean, they're still big, butthat the tail is
Sarah Nevarez (35:27):
long. Yeah, I remember when well, when we got
them when they were Do youremember when their eagle rays
were little? Yeah. We I was avolunteer diver. And we would
feed them with a little becausethey're trained to like the
purple cone shape that was ontheir stretcher. So we would
carry down a purple traffic conewith clams in it and they would
come up to it and they were Idon't know, like three feet.
Yeah. Yeah. A little tiny andnow they're huge. Yeah.
Madeline Walden (35:50):
Do you know how big that you Glory's got?
Sarah Nevarez (35:52):
Like in general? I don't. How
Erin Lundy (35:54):
many Sarah's 60s.
Sarah Nevarez (35:57):
I think well, they just I think they just
weighed the female and she wasor she's made the male and he
was around one between 150 and200. I think he was 150 Oh,
awesome. Big animal. Yeah, Iknow. They look like pizza slice
are so cute. Yeah,
Erin Lundy (36:16):
they kind of look like they have like a very I
don't know, like if their sideprofile is very distinctive,
Sarah Nevarez (36:22):
like humanist
Erin Lundy (36:25):
view. Are they anyway? Are the eagle rays named
that because of the shape oftheir like face?
Sarah Nevarez (36:31):
Yes, probably probably. Probably very Eagle
shaped. Fun fact the eagle rayand trap reef? His name? Elvis.
Oh, yes.
Madeline Walden (36:39):
Do you think that there's a ray factor that
people would be the mostsurprised to hear?
Sarah Nevarez (36:43):
I have not watched seen. But some rays can
actually jump out of the water?Obviously not here. But yeah,
somebody's can actually jump outof the water back in and they
can like start flapping?
Erin Lundy (37:00):
Do you think that they belly flop? How bad? Would
that hurt? If they just
Sarah Nevarez (37:05):
assuming if they're coming up? They would
kind of maybe go nose down. Butmaybe they learned
Erin Lundy (37:10):
over time? Not not too it'd be such a jarring sound
to hear out in the ocean justlike mix
Madeline Walden (37:19):
to shape that way to do that they
Scott Shaw (37:21):
were sharks and flatten them.
Erin Lundy (37:27):
Anyone that really? Do they
Madeline Walden (37:30):
communicate with each other in any ways? Or
any sort of like socialstructure with? Yeah,
Sarah Nevarez (37:34):
some rays will actually be solitary or a couple
and then some live in big, big,big aggregations with each
other. Like, I know, I've seenvideos of like drone footage of
like 1000s of rays congregatedtogether.
Erin Lundy (37:47):
What are they up to? Flag?
Madeline Walden (37:51):
Is it like? Is it potential?
Sarah Nevarez (37:53):
Is it a breeding thing? Yeah, I'm assuming Yeah.
If it's that that many. I'massuming
Erin Lundy (37:57):
a lot of rays, billion rays. They are cool to
see those overhead shots though,when you can just see so many of
them. Yeah.
Madeline Walden (38:07):
But do they communicate with each other in
any way? Have you? You'venoticed mean or not
Sarah Nevarez (38:11):
that I've noticed with my girls, but I'm assuming
just what their spatialawareness and they've been with
each other for so long. And soI'm like little family.
Erin Lundy (38:20):
Yeah, if you had one thing that you wanted our
listeners to take away fromthis, including the stingray
shuffle. Please do that.
Sarah Nevarez (38:30):
I would say that there's a lot of things about
rays that maybe aren't superobvious so that people don't
know like difference betweenMandarin Stingray, which we
talked about. Did we talk aboutthat? Yeah. I thought we just
did it before. And there's somany different species of rays
out there. It's not just thebatteries that live in the sand
or the runways that live in thesand. So I would encourage
(38:52):
people to go out and research orif you're curious about
something, find out as much asyou can about it. I mean, I work
with these batteries everysingle day. And I still for this
had wanted to look up differentfacts and different things about
them. Because there's stillstuff that I don't know. And so
I would just encourage people tokeep researching what they're
curious about, especially aboutrays because they're so cool.
(39:13):
Keep your curiosity. Curiosityup.
Madeline Walden (39:17):
The rays of curiosity
Erin Lundy (39:20):
to Sarah yourself.
Madeline Walden (39:24):
She's got enough. Yeah.
Aquarium of the Podcific (39:26):
send them to us
Madeline Walden (39:29):
I think they might have rays in every gallery
right now. Let's see. Maybe notin northern specifically
Sarah Nevarez (39:40):
in that northern proper area, no.
Erin Lundy (39:43):
Northern proper. Oh, do
Sarah Nevarez (39:45):
we wait, we
Madeline Walden (39:45):
had a little there was a little sandy bottom
right. That's the name of theexhibits.
Sarah Nevarez (39:53):
What are you laughing at? Because the bottom
anyways, no, I don't thinkthere's any up there. Okay,
Madeline Walden (39:59):
so we have rays in just about every gallery here
at the Aquarium so Sarah istalking specifically about the
race she works with. But I knowwe have a low res and tropical
we have several species andtropical of two so you can visit
the aquarium soon we'll be ableto see stingrays pretty much
everywhere. Um, see thefloppies. Yeah. Thank you,
Sarah, thank you so much forjoining us on the podcast today.
I learned so much about rays.And I'm excited for our audience
(40:20):
to do the same. Of course, thank
Sarah Nevarez (40:22):
you so much.
Madeline Walden (40:29):
Aquarium of the Podcific is brought to you by
Aquarium of the Podcific a 501 Cthree nonprofit organization in
2023. The aquarium celebrates 25years of connecting millions of
people worldwide to the beautyand wonder of our ocean planet.
Head to aquarium of pacific.orgto learn more about our 25th
anniversary celebration. Keep upwith the aquarium on social
(40:49):
media at aquarium Pacific ontick tock Instagram, Facebook,
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Erin Lundy (40:54):
This podcast is produced by Erin Lundy, Madeline
Walden and Scott Shaw. Our musicis by Andrew Wright's MA and our
podcast art is by Brandy Kenny,special thanks to Cecile Fisher
and Anita vias and our audiovisual and education
departments. And to all of ouramazing podcast guests for
taking time out of their day totalk about the important work
that they do. I'd cific wouldn'tbe possible without the support
(41:16):
of the aquarium stoners,members, guests and supporters.
Thanks for listening
Hi, I'm Erin Lundy.
Madeline Walden (00:07):
And I'm Madeline Walden and this is
Aquarium of the Podcific (00:09):
Aquarium of the Podcific.
Madeline Walden (00:11):
A podcast brought to you by Aquarium of
the Podcific. SouthernCalifornia's largest aquarium.
Erin Lundy (00:15):
Join us as we learn alongside the experts in animal
care, conservation and more.
Welcome back to Aquarium of thePodcific. We made it to season
twwwwwo
if you can't tell that is alarge crowd of people cheering
in the backgorund.
Madeline Walden (00:33):
studio audience today
Erin Lundy (00:34):
Yeah, totally live. Totally not just recording this
in an empty studio, with just ustwo. Speaking of I'm Erin Lundy.
I'm the conservation coordinatorfor mammals and birds.
Madeline Walden (00:43):
And I'm Madeline Walden, the aquariums
digital content and communitymanager.
Erin Lundy (00:48):
What have we been up to since season one launched a
lot of jobs? Yeah. There's beena lot going on other jobs. Yeah,
you've been up to a lot, a lot alot. We've had a lot of
different conservation projectsthat we've been working on.
We've had our mountain yellowlegged frogs continuing to grow
and be awesome here, working onsome new habitats and stuff for
some of our animals. So we havea lot of exciting things
(01:10):
happening this summer. But fornow, we just wanted to make sure
Season Two gets brought to yourears. I know it's been a minute,
and we can hear a little bitmore about our animals, which
I'm so excited about. I missedthose stories. I know. It's so
fun. So tricking our co workersinto talking about, hey,
whenever
I think it works great.
Madeline Walden (01:28):
I think they do it's really fun.
Erin Lundy (01:30):
Today we want to talk about one of the animals
that is in actually quite a fewexhibits at the aquarium. They
are rays. And rays are prettycool animals that are pretty
closely related to sharks, whichI don't think a lot of people
know. They are a cartilaginousfish, which is how I am often
described as
Madeline Walden (01:49):
I have heard that
Erin Lundy (01:51):
going around. Yeah, there's a rumor about it. This
Madeline Walden (01:55):
is a really cool episode i It's surprising
and not surprising that Ray'sget a ton of love on social
media. We talked a little bitabout it in the episode, but
they're there with the seaotters and the mammals here at
the Aquarium and even offersharks sometimes.
Erin Lundy (02:12):
Even though they're there because it says there's a
popular cousin there the flatsharks, sharks, so therefore
sharks are still popular becausethey're just flat sharks.
Exactly. Today, we're gonna betalking to Sarah Nevarez, who is
one of our aquarists who helpsto take care of our race and
she's going to tell us all aboutwhat it looks like to take care
of the flattest sharks of all.
Madeline Walden (02:32):
She's so knowledgeable. I really love
this episode. I know I learned alot. And I know you are too.
Erin Lundy (02:37):
Yeah, I think it's a really great episode. And I'm
excited for everyone and I'mexcited to be back with you. I
am excited to be back. It hasbeen so long that this intro
we're like are we good?
Madeline Walden (02:48):
Do we need to do this? Do we remember how to
talk? But then we put theheadphones on and we're like,
oh, yeah, talk we can reallyhear or, or big metal.
Erin Lundy (02:57):
This is metal yapping. But anyway, without
further ado, let's get into ourepisode. For today on our
podcast, we have Sarah Nevarez,who works with our rays. Hi,
Sarah. How are you?
Sarah Nevarez (03:10):
Hello, I'm great.
Erin Lundy (03:11):
What is your job title here at the Aquarium?
Sarah Nevarez (03:13):
I am an aquarist one here at the Aquarium and
I've been paid staff for abouttwo years. But I was a volunteer
diver before that for fouryears.
Erin Lundy (03:21):
Oh, I didn't think I knew that. Before. So our dive
program does have volunteers,which is awesome. And what level
of dive certification? Do youneed to be a dive volunteer
here?
Sarah Nevarez (03:31):
You have to be at least rescue certified. So
that's, I think the third levelof certification and you have to
have 50 logged ocean dives. Oh,wow. Which is quite a quite a
lot. Lot. Yeah, but we do do alot here. We were doing feedings
we're doing presentation. So yougot to be kind of moving the
whole time and be a goodexperienced diver. But it's
ultimately what got me my jobhere. So that's true. All I
Erin Lundy (03:52):
heard was hairs like an amazing. So basically, I'm
the best diver you've ever seen.So did you start working with or
around some of our rays when youwere a volunteer diver,
Sarah Nevarez (04:01):
the only thing I can remember is sometimes the
volunteer divers will go intothe RE pool exhibit and clean so
I remember this was probablyback in 2017 Getting in and a
wetsuit and like doing thestingray shuffle as they call it
and just walking around andbeing careful and just scrubbing
the walls and the rocks.
Erin Lundy (04:18):
So the stingray shuffle is not a term I had ever
heard until I moved toCalifornia. Oh right. Yeah, and
people are now just likeeveryone knows the stingray
shuffle so for listeners whomight not be familiar what
exactly
Sarah Nevarez (04:28):
is the shuffle so it's not a cool dance that you
do for no reason and make it acool dance. Yeah. So beaches in
California here super populatedwith little round rays and it's
can be dangerous. So youbasically instead of walking
normally on the sand, youshuffle your feet so that
whatever rays are in the sandwill feel those vibrations and
take off and be away from youand you don't step on anybody.
(04:52):
Human being stung and the
Erin Lundy (04:53):
Wrangler, right it's like oh, what has been your
favorite part of your job sofar?
Sarah Nevarez (04:59):
So far, I recently got checked out to be a
field divers. So yes, I am partof the team that will go out and
collect animals or go do surveysout in the open ocean for our
research projects, such as ourabalone project that we're doing
with a bunch of differentpartners. So that's been really
fun to get out there and feellike a real scientist. on
(05:22):
Avalon. Sometimes we do, we'llrun what's called transects,
which looks like a big measuringtape underwater and you run it a
certain direction, certainlocation, and you're counting
things on each side, or you'resurveying or doing things like
that. Yeah, on our last time, wereleased a bunch of baby white
abalone, which was so cool tosee. Yeah,
Erin Lundy (05:41):
I think we're going to talk about abalone in a
future episode. Yes, ourparticipation looks like so this
is your preview.
Madeline Walden (05:49):
Of abalone abalone
Erin Lundy (05:52):
abalone teaser? So it sounds like you did get your
start sort of in our dive area.But how did you start working
specifically with rays? Did youhave any specific experience
that led you to that?
Sarah Nevarez (06:04):
It's kind of funny when I started, I remember
my first day I was being shownaround by my supervisor. And she
was basically telling me whatexhibits I was gonna have.
Because in my position, I'm incharge of four to five exhibits.
And we walked up to a pool andshe was like, this is yours. I
just took it over. I mean, I'vebeen around. Like I said,
before, I've been around therays and stuff. And I know about
(06:25):
their anatomy, I have my degreein marine biology. So I have
like, very intro rightknowledge. But that's pretty
much how I got the gist given tome. And I've had it the whole
time I've been here. And I'veloved it. It's super cool. I
Erin Lundy (06:37):
think one of my favorite things about working in
husbandry, and that sort of hasbeen a universal experience for
everyone is, you know, a lot ofpeople come up to me, they're
like, You must have loved frogsgetting into this. And I'm just
like, No, someone one day justwas like, hey, we need to help
you seem like you like plants.And probably animals, like, do
you want to help with this? Andof course, I didn't, you know,
like, I love learning newthings. But there was no initial
(06:58):
passion for amphibians. And nowyears later, it's like such an
ingrained part of my wholepersonality. To How did this
happen all of a sudden, and youknow, like that mountain yellow
legged frog project is so much apart of what I do here. But if
you had asked me five years ago,oh, how interested are you in
frogs? I would have said, not atall. They're They're cute. I
(07:20):
like them, but I know nothingabout them. And I think that's
almost a misconception, becauselike, how can you possibly come
into this field with the levelof expertise that you need to
learn like to know about ray,you know, it's not a pet animal,
it's not an animal you couldhave kept. But you know, one day
you were assigned ray pool, andall of these rays are your
responsibility. And then thepassion sort of follows, which I
think is cool. But it must,what's that learning curve?
(07:41):
Like, for you?
Sarah Nevarez (07:42):
It's very intimidating. And a lot of
things too, you can only learnabout these animals when you're
working with them this true?Yeah, so we just finished up
welfare assessments for our raysevery year, we whale them and we
measure them and we do a visualinspection. And so the first
time I we did that we weighedall of them. Big scale. We use
(08:03):
the otter scale the first timeit's so weird. You don't realize
how heavy they are. Until How
Erin Lundy (08:09):
heavy are they?
Sarah Nevarez (08:10):
I think our heaviest one is 27 kilograms.
Erin Lundy (08:13):
Wow. 60 pounds? Yeah.
Sarah Nevarez (08:17):
I think that's steady. Yeah. But yeah, so like,
I didn't know how much weight orre weighed.
Erin Lundy (08:25):
That's hard to say.
Sarah Nevarez (08:26):
I didn't know how much a re weighed. You know, I'm
taking it out of the water.Yeah. So Well, yeah. The longer
I'm with the tank and with theanimals, the more I learn about
them. Yeah, that's just that'sjust how it
Erin Lundy (08:36):
is. So much of it is such like niche knowledge to
have like, oh, for this ray, thebest way to carry this animals
that and you're like, how wouldI have ever come in with that
information? Yeah. But I thinkit's really cool. And I love
that people sort of getassignments, and then part of
the assignments, essentiallylearn about the animals and do
everything you can to providethe best possible care. And of
course, we have guidance, and wehave like husbandry care
(08:58):
manuals, and things like that,but so much of it is like on the
job learning. Yeah, I thinkthat's really cool. Yeah, but
since you know so much aboutrays, we are going to be asking
lots of questions, since I'm anexpert on rays. Yeah. So who are
our current rays? Like, whatspecies do you take care of, of
our sting rays. So
Sarah Nevarez (09:14):
in Ray touchable, we have the bat rays with the
main attraction. We have six ofthem. They all have names, but
we'll get to that in a second.We have three little round rays.
And so those are the ones thatyou're you might find on the
beaches here in SouthernCalifornia around there. That's
yes, they're gonna round raysthere. I don't know, maybe four
or five inches across, andthey're the brown colors that
(09:35):
you see like brown light brown,they camouflage really well in
the sand. And then we have ashovelnose guitarfish and Ray
pool as well. It's kind of theone that's like, it doesn't look
like a typical Ray.
Madeline Walden (09:48):
It looks like the shovelnose guitarfish you
just draw it Yeah, just
Sarah Nevarez (09:53):
draw you think that is?
Madeline Walden (09:55):
Probably yeah, you're
Erin Lundy (09:56):
so right. Yeah. Is
it considered a ray
Sarah Nevarez (10:00):
I think so. Okay. Yeah,
Erin Lundy (10:01):
there's some confusing like rays and sharks
and the
Sarah Nevarez (10:05):
terminology related. Yes, skate is a whole
other thing. Stay tuned for theStay tuned for skate episode
another preview. Then, okay,shovelnose guitarfish. Weirdo
and then to sturgeon, which arethe big fish in there.
Erin Lundy (10:20):
We get asked a lot of questions about the sturgeon
fish or sturgeons,
Sarah Nevarez (10:29):
the big boy or girl, I don't know, actually the
big old, the big sturgeon maybearound 10 or 12. Oh, wow, I
think that goes off of when wegot them and everything. The
smaller one, she's a littlefemale, and probably four or
five. Okay, but again, that's avery big growth area rough
estimate. They grow slow. Andand yeah. But the bat rays in a
(10:51):
pool have names and all thenames are based off what their
tail looks like, because there'sno other way to name them. To
tell them how often we tellthem. So we have s whose tail
shaped like an S, we have curlwho has a little curl at the end
of her tail. Tiny is thesmallest one clean when we added
(11:12):
as opposed to as opposed toeveryone else, so ungrateful.
They're kind of their biganimals, they can be a little
rough with each other. Sosometimes we'll have little
scratches on them. I think whenclean was added, she was like
one of the newer ones with noscratches. So I seen she was
pristine and clean. Yeah, wehave stubby, which we mentioned
(11:33):
before, and stubby has theshortest tail and then we have
kink who has a little kink atthe end of her tail. Okay, so
you
Erin Lundy (11:39):
can't like if you looked at the majority of their
body, it would be hard to tellthem apart. Yes, but the tail is
very tail. If
Sarah Nevarez (11:46):
there's no tail, then you need to help because
there's no way you're gonna tellthem this, but that's fair.
Madeline Walden (11:52):
Yeah. Well, then it would be none. That
would be their name. Yes, None.None. None. Tail.
Erin Lundy (11:59):
No, we don't have a none. We
Madeline Walden (12:00):
don't have one that no, no.
Erin Lundy (12:02):
Do the round race of names. No.
Sarah Nevarez (12:10):
No, they just don't. I was thinking of a way
that I could maybe kind of tellthem for but no, no, because
they're all similar size to. And
Erin Lundy (12:18):
I mean, they're like exactly sand colored. You're
like I could see how someonewould step on that. And that's
why this thing right
Sarah Nevarez (12:23):
shuffle is very important. The Bat rays if you
can't see that, then you needhelp, again,
Erin Lundy (12:30):
four feet across. Totally different color than the
sand. But I understand when Ilooked at the round rays
why that's important. Speakingof their tails are their
stingers on their tail. So we
Sarah Nevarez (12:43):
refer to it as a barb. Okay. I know it's called
Stingray. I know it's calledsting, right, but the barb is
actually at the base of thetail. So they should be called
barbed rays, I'm changing theirname to barbed rays. The barb is
at the base of their tail. So ifyou look at the body and just
where the tail starts to comeoff the body, you'll see a
(13:06):
little barb A lot of the rays inRay pool are pretty old. They're
around 2020 years old. Oh, yeah,some of them are charter
animals. They've been with theaquarium since we opened. So
over time that barb, we trim itso that it can't hurt people. So
some of the reason peopleactually don't even have their
bars anymore. Sometimes if wetrim it down, or sometimes it'll
grow crooked, so we have toremove the bar. So it doesn't
(13:27):
hurt the animal anymore. So agood majority of them I think
four or five of them don't evenhave barks or just like a smooth
little part on their tail. Butwe always keep it clipped so
that no one gets
Madeline Walden (13:38):
described as kind of like a fingernail. Yeah,
back. So does it does it hurtthe animal or does it cause any
other issues? No, I'm in a, youknow habitat where it doesn't
have to defend itself I'massuming right? Not necessary.
Sarah Nevarez (13:50):
Um, it's kind of like a dog's nail. You know how
you can't cut too far. Otherwiseyou'll get the quick so we cut
just kind of at the end whereit's pointing. It doesn't bleed
or anything it doesn't hurt theanimal and you're just cutting
off the sharp part of the nailor the sharp hair the barb
manicure Exactly. And yet theyif they don't have to use them
in the rate and the rate pool,they're they're fine without it.
(14:11):
Yeah, it's perceived. Does
Erin Lundy (14:12):
it feel like if you get stung if Oh,
Sarah Nevarez (14:15):
it depends on the species. So if we're thinking of
more common ways to get stungout here with the little round
rays if you get barbed I guess.strong willed.
Erin Lundy (14:26):
I've been barred if
Sarah Nevarez (14:28):
you get hurt by Ray by a little round Ray I know
if you pour hot water over it'sjust it's irritating and it
hurts but it's not like gonnadie or anything Yeah, I'm
assuming a battery because it isa bigger animal will probably be
more painful. And again thetreatment for that is probably
hot water until you can go tothe hospital if you need to eat
at a hospital for I know thathe's worse. Sure and they're
(14:51):
here and they're huge reason thewild can get up to 7080 pounds I
think oh ours are ours are 5060Probably but They can get big
and they can get, I think sixfeet and wingspan which is my
height. Very tall person.
Erin Lundy (15:07):
So everyone says six feet tall. Yeah. Just imagine
that. Oh, that's why you're incharge of them. Yeah. That's why
they do supervisor was like, Youseem exactly like, let's put you
in charge of them. Yeah. So haveyou ever been stung by a ray in
general? I have not ever in yourlife are all 50 Plus
Sarah Nevarez (15:30):
my 5000 million dives I've done never been
stung. No. Yeah, bat rays areusually they're not ones are
rays in general are not animalsto go and attack you. It's
pretty much only if, like wesaid, if you're stepped on, or
if you're kind of in their area,or you're reaching down and you
accidentally are near them, thenthey will whip their tail around
and get you with the farm. Sothey're not aggressive animals.
Erin Lundy (15:51):
They're so like, there's such interesting animals
because like to think that thisthing is related to a shark. And
like I hear people describe themas like a sea pancake, or you
know, like, they're so flat,they look so different than a
shark. What are some of thesimilarities or characteristics
that they have in common withother elasmobranchs? Like, what
do you see across that family?So
Sarah Nevarez (16:11):
yes, they related to sharks. They both sharks and
rays have their skeleton is notmade out of bone, it's actually
made out of cartilage. So itmakes them very smooth in the
water. It makes them veryflexible and easy to fit into
maybe smaller spaces, butthey're a lot more aerodynamic
that way more water dynamic.
Erin Lundy (16:30):
I want to call everything water. What did I
make? I loved it. So
Sarah Nevarez (16:33):
that's one of the main things that sets that short
summaries have in common.
Erin Lundy (16:37):
Scott has a question. Ready? Welcome
Madeline Walden (16:40):
Scott to the podcast.
Sarah Nevarez (16:41):
Yeah.
Erin Lundy (16:42):
And a ray nerd. And a rock nerd and a shark tooth
nerd. Yeah.
Scott Shaw (16:47):
Sharks. I know, if you turn them over, they go into
the tonic immobility, but dorays do the same.
Sarah Nevarez (16:52):
I believe some species do. I honestly have
never flipped one of thebatteries over because I would
get slapped in the face. Orsomeone being like, what are you
doing? And then by double yes,they're flat. They're very
strong. Like I mentioned when wedo the assessments, and we have
(17:13):
to handle them and weigh themand all that it takes a couple
people. So that's an excellentquestion. But I believe some do,
yes. It's
Erin Lundy (17:22):
funny because sometimes I'll walk over by
their a pool and they'll justlike slap the water so hard that
they cause like those tidalwaves through a pool, so I can't
even imagine that like on yourbody.
Sarah Nevarez (17:34):
Yeah, and the more they're kind of routine is
in the mornings, they're verysplashy, they will be up against
the wall. We think they've justalways done that. It's usually
in the morning when I feed them.And then in the afternoon,
they're worn out and they'resleeping. Exhausted. So yeah,
sometimes in the morning, itjust sounds like someone
Madeline Walden (17:54):
has mistakenly sat there like waiting for to go
into pinnipeds or some flashthough and just fully gotten
splash. Yeah, this is my fault.Thank you for thank you for the
good morning. Wake up. Yeah. Itwas just refreshing. Yeah. wet
pants. That's pretty common foryou guys. I'm sure Oh, yeah.
Yeah, wet pants. That's justokay.
Erin Lundy (18:13):
I'm pretty sure I've seen Sarah in fully inside of
the REI pool more than anyoneelse. Because usually, like go
with regular plants in awetsuit, typically, but I'm not
in uniform.
Sarah Nevarez (18:27):
No, really, I have and you won't, and I won't
and I'm just manifesting that.Well, okay, it doesn't count if
Okay, so they count when I go inthe exhibit, I'll be either in a
wetsuit or in like fishingwaders that come up to I don't
know, my stomach. And so I wasdoing something and I slipped. I
can't sorry. Okay. And some ofthe water got into the it wasn't
(18:52):
the whole thing. But sotechnically, yes, I have fallen
while I was inside. And
Erin Lundy (18:57):
you got water in your pants. My pants and my
pants are all wet. We have toget in the waiters to clean the
pinnipeds, Windows sills andceiling window and there was the
one worst thing is I found outthere was a hole in the butt of
the waiters because Parker'sswim by and I just got so much
water down. My pants was like,Ah,
Scott Shaw (19:17):
I had that happen when I was working on Trump up
in the exhibit because the audiobox you actually have to go
down. And I leaned down too farto pick up something and water
just filled the way. Oh, no, Ilive in here now. Yeah, that was
my day. Yeah,
Sarah Nevarez (19:31):
all of your clothes are wet. It's not like a
wet sock or anything. No, likeyour whole body.
Erin Lundy (19:37):
You're just full of water. You're basically in like
a woman exhibit. I'm in thepool. Cool. Well, in terms so
you talked a little bit abouthow some of our batteries are 25
plus years old have been at theaquarium since we open How long
do rays live? Are they're verylong lived species is a species
dependent.
Sarah Nevarez (19:54):
Its species dependent, bigger way bigger
species like species of mantarayI'm assuming live wait longer,
but battery lifespan is about 25years. In captivity, they
probably live longer, which iswhy the ones that we've had for
so long are still kicking andslashing. Everybody still
splashing. They're consideredolder animals. Yeah,
Erin Lundy (20:16):
I know. One of the questions that one of our
listeners had was what are thedifferences between sting rays
in manta rays? So manta
Sarah Nevarez (20:24):
rays are those big, big pelagic, meaning
midwater species that you seepeople diving with? They have
the big oral lobes that theytake in their food with and
they're there. They're giant oneday I will. One day I will
snorkel with manta rays when
Madeline Walden (20:40):
I've done it either, but I know I've seen
some of our colleagues have goneand shared the most amazing
picture. Yeah, it doesn't evenlook real like No, it looks like
just a sea monster. Yeah. But afew months at least have them
painted on the front of theaquarium, even though we didn't
have manta rays
Sarah Nevarez (20:54):
here, this misleading. Still very pretty
like the front end.
Madeline Walden (20:57):
So before PV, we had a muralist from I think
it was from Portugal. Come itwas part of like the Long Beach,
like walls project. It waspretty. It was really, really
cool. I'll send you a pictureand yeah,
Sarah Nevarez (21:10):
I don't remember that. Yeah, this was pre PvE.
Creatively 2016. I
Madeline Walden (21:15):
think it was my first year that went up.
Sarah Nevarez (21:17):
It was that's when I started diving. Yeah, no.
Manta Rays giant no barb. Oralsting rays are usually smaller.
They're more benthic. So they'remore on the bottom as opposed to
manta rays and more pelagic inthe water column. And stingrays
Madeline Walden (21:33):
have bark and bark.
Unknown (21:34):
How are
Erin Lundy (21:35):
so serious typically, like I know we have a
species pelagic rays?
Sarah Nevarez (21:40):
Yep. Oh, yes. Yes. Sorry. Yes. Oh, I forgot
about Sansa.
Erin Lundy (21:43):
We do have a flood. Oh, yes. So I know we have
pelagic rays, which are astingray that is pelagic. So
they sort of deviate from thenorm of what stingrays do. But
do stingrays? Are they shapedlike that? And their mouth is on
the bottom? Like, is that afeeding thing for them or a
defense thing? Like why are theyat the bottom?
Sarah Nevarez (22:03):
Well, yes. So first, I forgot about sonza,
which is our pelagic ray in raypool. We do have one. And so she
Madeline Walden (22:09):
over one more time,
Sarah Nevarez (22:10):
let pelagic Yes, pelagic is describing the water
column. So you're not at thevery surface of the water.
You're not in the sand in thebenthic zone. You are in the
pelagic. So you're kind of inthe big, open blue water. The
Zone jellies or jellies arepelagic species. Dolphins are
pelagic species. Most whales arepelagic species. Yeah. So our
(22:31):
pleasure gray is named sonza.And she does have a barb in her
mouth is on the bottom, liketraditional stingrays, but she
lives in the pelagic zone. Sofor our bat rays, all have an
other benthic species, all oftheir food is usually going to
be found in the sand. And so batrays will use their little like
kind of the tip of their noselike a little shovel and go
(22:51):
through the sand and getdifferent mussels, clams, things
that live in the sand, andthat's what they eat. And I
don't know about pelagic,pelagic graze will eat things
that are in theirs pelagic zone,like midwater column midwater
column. Yeah, sounds it does eatoff the bottom occasionally.
Madeline Walden (23:11):
I was gonna ask, do you see like kind of a
difference in behavior and theway she eats compared to the
other race?
Sarah Nevarez (23:16):
It's very cute. So sonza is the light of my
life, if you can't tell. So whenso we got her when she was very
little. She's about three orfour years old right now. And so
before she was the size she isnow she would kind of we would
target her and she would eatseparate from all the rain so
that we ensure that she actuallygot food. And she would come to
the surface with her littleface, and then we would give her
(23:38):
with tongs, food, and then shekind of flips on her back and
swims backwards and she'll useher pectoral fins to kind of
like, bring food to her mouth.So think of like a little taco
being folded. She would Yeah,she would do that. Use her wings
and kind of get food andsometimes I would throw food
onto her little mouth when she'son the surface. And this will
(23:59):
kind of flip and come back anddo the same thing.
Madeline Walden (24:01):
So we'll see pancakes, see tacos, taco.
We'd call them see ravioli. Seeravioli?
That's
Unknown (24:08):
a good one. You like little baby ones? Yeah.
Erin Lundy (24:11):
It just reminds me when you like to throw a cheese
ball in your friend's mouth.That's exactly what I would do.
Yes, sorry. Little pieces ofclam and Yes.
Sarah Nevarez (24:20):
Yes. So backtracking to that's how
pelagic rays eat. They use theirthey use their wings. They use
their wings to catch some video
Madeline Walden (24:26):
of that lock to post along with it. Yeah, and
release this. It's real cute.
Sarah Nevarez (24:31):
Yeah, she's my favorite.
Erin Lundy (24:33):
Wow, can you tell just right out there. We're
gonna tell all about rays.They're fine. Do our rays ever
breed here?
Sarah Nevarez (24:41):
So we have all female rays? When female and
male elasmobranchs sharks andrays are together. The males are
extremely aggressive to thefemales. Yes, because yes, very
rude. Because they're trying tomate and so They'll grab their
wings, though. Yeah, it's very,very intense.
Erin Lundy (25:04):
Need a sorority only? Yes, males are alone
together.
Sarah Nevarez (25:08):
So all of the boundaries that we have are
actually all male. And they'refine. Yeah, they're fine. But
it's when you have the samespecies of different sects that
you get crazy.
Erin Lundy (25:17):
I remember one of the cownose rays was pregnant.
At some point, what is apregnant Ray look like? How can
you tell?
Madeline Walden (25:25):
They're just choppy? They just have like,
chop chop? Yeah, the countlessways they just you can see a
little, little tummy on them.It's
Erin Lundy (25:32):
really seen. Well, that's interesting. So we need
to keep same sex of the samespecies together. Yeah. Just
Sarah Nevarez (25:38):
to prevent? Yeah. Any injuries or issues?
Erin Lundy (25:42):
Are they? Do you consider them to be like a
pretty intelligent species? Doyou do any training with them?
Sarah Nevarez (25:48):
I do. Like we mentioned before I we would
sonza We would do the targettraining. So she would come up
and II so that you can targettrain them, you can Station
Train them. We had a couple ofbatteries in blue cavern cup,
maybe I think last year, andthey were able to come to the
little target with and the diverwas able to feed them. Yeah,
they they're intelligent to thatpoint. But not, I mean, not like
(26:10):
a GPO or something.
Erin Lundy (26:12):
Yeah, for sure for what they need. What they need,
they get around,
Sarah Nevarez (26:15):
they splash around, and they're fine. Yeah,
Madeline Walden (26:17):
what a life.
Erin Lundy (26:18):
What was the last
question I wanted to ask aboutsort of our rays in general, do
you find that they eachindividually have their own
personality? And like, what sortof enrichment Do you provide to
sort of keep them mentallystimulated.
Sarah Nevarez (26:31):
So whenever I am in the exhibit, either with
waiters that are not flooding orwith that I'm not falling, and
sometimes I'll put food on thebottom and then put kind of like
a weighted net over looks like abig square net, and they'll kind
of have to dig through. And kindof it's whatever high school
feeder Yeah, it's exactly like apuzzle feeder, like a cotton
(26:51):
ball. Whatever you can do tostimulate their natural way of
eating is a great type ofnourishment. So they're using
those little plate teeth andthey're shuffled little noses to
get the food out from under thatnet. And they really like it.
But in terms of personality, Isometimes relate their
personality with their nameslash with their tail looks like
Erin Lundy (27:12):
so. Tiny just head to tiny.
Sarah Nevarez (27:16):
She's Yeah, she's not kind of one of the more I
don't know. Not aggressivebecause when when I feed them,
they get very crazy and they'renot being mean or to each other
and kind of excited. Yeah. AndTiny is kind of the one that
will stay back a little. Thebiggest one is are stubby Yeah,
the biggest one is stubby andshe'll kind of be more excited,
(27:36):
but other than that, they'rekind of all the same. So I know
those are all female, but whatis the sexual dimorphism? With
rays? So with rays just likewith sharks, the females on her
underside, she's just gonna haveevent and then the male has to
clasp errs. Oh, which lookedlike yeah, kind of elongated
fins. Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah.And the small round, rays the
(27:57):
males, you can see theirclaspers, even when they're
right side up. Where
Erin Lundy (28:01):
is it relative to their barb, their claspers
Sarah Nevarez (28:05):
it's basically the same location but on the
other side and underside ofthem. Okay, yeah, kind of at the
base of the tail ish, but theclasperes will come out towards
their tail. Okay. And the ventis kind of right before their
tail on their main body.
Madeline Walden (28:19):
So rays are really just kind of like a
shark. Kind of pancaked. Yeah.Yeah. It's question
Erin Lundy (28:25):
all like fins. They just like
Sarah Nevarez (28:28):
everything melts into one pool.
Scott Shaw (28:30):
You can't remember if you already said this, but
they have teeth. Yeah, so theyhave
Sarah Nevarez (28:34):
Yeah, since they're eating hardshell items,
mostly that are in the sand,they have kind of their teeth
are flat, kind of like twoplates, like two blank grinding
plates that are against eachother, and they'll kind of grind
them together and to crush upthe shells. And then they'll eat
the meat and spit out theshells. So it's not like
traditional shark's teeth, likethe pointy scary things. Very
(28:56):
messy. If you go up to a pooland you see the shells in there,
that's because I haven't takenthem out. But she's working on
it, but I'm working on it. Okay.
Erin Lundy (29:05):
But I know that like similar to sharks that do sort
of like have teeth that replacetheir teeth, like I've found the
re like dermal or dental platesor whatever they're called,
like, I found those in the sandbefore how like frequently are
they like dropping those?
Sarah Nevarez (29:21):
I don't think it's very frequent but I know
that they will replace themcontinuously. Okay, as they
Yeah, as they lose
Madeline Walden (29:27):
them as often as sharks do necessarily.
Sarah Nevarez (29:29):
I don't I don't believe so.
Erin Lundy (29:30):
I wish that if my teeth they just come back
Sarah Nevarez (29:34):
not to get like a crown. Yeah. I'm just gonna free
tooth Yeah, they don't. They'renot gonna come back.
Erin Lundy (29:39):
No, Natalie and bad news. Those are your last ones.
That's it.
Madeline Walden (29:44):
I'm assuming you know with it. It's probably
a lot more work to grow up platethan it is a tooth continuously,
so probably a little less often.
Erin Lundy (29:52):
Speak for yourself. How many of you grow plates over
there? I have a lot of plates.Don't worry. Well, Oh, that's
sort of what I wanted to askyou. But I wanted to know what
your favorite story has beenpersonally working with the
race. What is your favoritething about working with them?
Or what is your best race story?
Sarah Nevarez (30:12):
My best race story. I love working with the
rays. Because whenever they'reone of the first exhibits I go
to in the morning, and they'rejust always so excited. And
always, even though they'resplashing and getting me wet or
whatever, they're still just, Idon't know, they're very
routine, and they kind of do thesame thing every day, which is
comforting to me. Yeah, itsounds weird, but and then
(30:33):
whenever I go up and feed them,and as soon as I throw food in
there, all common, they're allThey're just so happy to be
eating and like, Okay, same, butI just love how I mean, we
talked about how they don'treally have like, specific
personalities, but I do like howthey're all kind of just little,
little cows and they just kindof do their own thing and, and
(30:53):
they're really cute. So, David,good to be here. Yeah, they have
a good demeanor. Exactly. Sweet.Yeah.
Erin Lundy (30:59):
Madeline, we'll go over some of the questions we
had from our listeners andsocial media. And we have some
really great questions.
Madeline Walden (31:06):
Great questions, especially this first
one, which is, how silly arethey?
Erin Lundy (31:12):
scale of one to 10 1040? No.
Sarah Nevarez (31:16):
I would say they're kind of silly. I mean,
it was flashes against the wallfor no reason. Yeah.
Madeline Walden (31:22):
I just got those little smiley faces.
Sarah Nevarez (31:24):
I mean, they don't call them like ravioli or
cake.
Madeline Walden (31:29):
Yeah. That's amazing. Um, how do they sleep?
Sarah Nevarez (31:33):
They will usually if I mean, sometimes they do it
and read pool but out in thewild, too. They will kind of
bury themselves under the sandwith their wings to hide
themselves. And they just kindof chill on the bottom. Yeah. In
the alimony? Yes. In theafternoon. Here at the aquarium
they will just be all kind ofcuddled together all kind of
touching beings sometimes. Andwe just hang out there.
Madeline Walden (31:56):
Separately from the conversation, or the
questions from social media.Rays are a social media
favorite. Like more than sharks.Shallow. Like I think if it were
the Order, order of like kind ofour most like what gets the most
engagement on social media. It'sotters Of course. pinnipeds and
(32:16):
then rays like above octopusesrays perform now.
Erin Lundy (32:24):
Let's see, Brooke, listen.
Madeline Walden (32:26):
I wanted to get your perspective on like, why
you think that is? I mean,they're cool, obviously, but But
why do you think they're so upthere? Why do you think they're
so engaging?
Sarah Nevarez (32:35):
I think rays are just like we talked about their,
their shape is just so silly.And I think a lot of times
they're either in cartoons, Ithink they're just very, a very
easy animal for kids to identifyand to kind of know since
childhood, so I mean, thatwouldn't they're so cool. So
yeah,
Madeline Walden (32:53):
that's awesome. Yeah. Do you have a favorite
race species? Baby like itdoesn't have to be one that
you've been work with? Becausesounds like sounds like yes,
yeah, that's
Sarah Nevarez (33:02):
my heart I would say I love in the shark lagoon
which was I love the blue spotrays. They are beautiful. They
don't even look real. Yeah, likethey look like someone painted
blue. Yeah, we did not we didnot paint. Yeah, no, no
painting. This
Madeline Walden (33:21):
is a natural. Stop it
Erin Lundy (33:23):
and painting them blue. It just counters
Madeline Walden (33:28):
exclusive species at the Aquarium of the
Pacific.
Sarah Nevarez (33:33):
They just I don't know they look like yeah, like
so.
Erin Lundy (33:36):
Thank you. Great job. Great
Sarah Nevarez (33:38):
job. They all look so cute.
Erin Lundy (33:40):
They're really really cool. Are they more
venomous like why are they blue?Is it a warning coloration it
Sarah Nevarez (33:46):
Yeah, I mean it might it might be a warning
coloration is I don't know whenthat habitat where those rays
live but that wouldn't surpriseme if that's why they were so
like kind of unnaturally. Yeah,it's like
Erin Lundy (33:57):
almost like fluorescent
Madeline Walden (33:58):
yeah look at them shiny. Do you have a ray
that you would like to work withthem in the future or a species
have one already here or a dreamone that we would like brought
in doesn't have to be PacificOcean animal either sweet
babies.
Sarah Nevarez (34:12):
I do love whenever I remember my head.
Whenever I dive in Shark lagoonI do love diving with the giant
reticulated ray that we have.She's such she's so big. She
does the
Madeline Walden (34:24):
animal at the aquarium in size and weight and
she doesn't let belongs toParker.
Sarah Nevarez (34:28):
Oh, right. Parker's I don't know. 800
pounds or something. And it'smax
Erin Lundy (34:32):
leave him alone. But still so big and he's heavy.
He's 850 Okay,
Madeline Walden (34:37):
but the ridiculous I have such a hard
time saying particularly retake.Retake rate. Yeah, she's about
like, 400 Wow. That's 11 feetlong. Biggest pancake.
Erin Lundy (34:49):
11 feet long. Yeah. That's to Sarah's
Sarah Nevarez (34:52):
I know. Can you Yeah,
Madeline Walden (34:54):
that's a huge
Erin Lundy (34:56):
everything everywhere. I get
Sarah Nevarez (35:02):
to what a dream
Erin Lundy (35:04):
long right? So how long is her body? Because her
body is not 11 feet? No, that'slike
Sarah Nevarez (35:10):
her tail is very long. So I don't know how long
her her long her body is, but Ithink it's majority
Madeline Walden (35:15):
tail. Jordan her body's still
Erin Lundy (35:18):
10 feet of tail and
Madeline Walden (35:21):
that's kind of like the eagle. Glorious. I
mean, they're still big, butthat the tail is
Sarah Nevarez (35:27):
long. Yeah, I remember when well, when we got
them when they were Do youremember when their eagle rays
were little? Yeah. We I was avolunteer diver. And we would
feed them with a little becausethey're trained to like the
purple cone shape that was ontheir stretcher. So we would
carry down a purple traffic conewith clams in it and they would
come up to it and they were Idon't know, like three feet.
Yeah. Yeah. A little tiny andnow they're huge. Yeah.
Madeline Walden (35:50):
Do you know how big that you Glory's got?
Sarah Nevarez (35:52):
Like in general? I don't. How
Erin Lundy (35:54):
many Sarah's 60s.
Sarah Nevarez (35:57):
I think well, they just I think they just
weighed the female and she wasor she's made the male and he
was around one between 150 and200. I think he was 150 Oh,
awesome. Big animal. Yeah, Iknow. They look like pizza slice
are so cute. Yeah,
Erin Lundy (36:16):
they kind of look like they have like a very I
don't know, like if their sideprofile is very distinctive,
Sarah Nevarez (36:22):
like humanist
Erin Lundy (36:25):
view. Are they anyway? Are the eagle rays named
that because of the shape oftheir like face?
Sarah Nevarez (36:31):
Yes, probably probably. Probably very Eagle
shaped. Fun fact the eagle rayand trap reef? His name? Elvis.
Oh, yes.
Madeline Walden (36:39):
Do you think that there's a ray factor that
people would be the mostsurprised to hear?
Sarah Nevarez (36:43):
I have not watched seen. But some rays can
actually jump out of the water?Obviously not here. But yeah,
somebody's can actually jump outof the water back in and they
can like start flapping?
Erin Lundy (37:00):
Do you think that they belly flop? How bad? Would
that hurt? If they just
Sarah Nevarez (37:05):
assuming if they're coming up? They would
kind of maybe go nose down. Butmaybe they learned
Erin Lundy (37:10):
over time? Not not too it'd be such a jarring sound
to hear out in the ocean justlike mix
Madeline Walden (37:19):
to shape that way to do that they
Scott Shaw (37:21):
were sharks and flatten them.
Erin Lundy (37:27):
Anyone that really? Do they
Madeline Walden (37:30):
communicate with each other in any ways? Or
any sort of like socialstructure with? Yeah,
Sarah Nevarez (37:34):
some rays will actually be solitary or a couple
and then some live in big, big,big aggregations with each
other. Like, I know, I've seenvideos of like drone footage of
like 1000s of rays congregatedtogether.
Erin Lundy (37:47):
What are they up to? Flag?
Madeline Walden (37:51):
Is it like? Is it potential?
Sarah Nevarez (37:53):
Is it a breeding thing? Yeah, I'm assuming Yeah.
If it's that that many. I'massuming
Erin Lundy (37:57):
a lot of rays, billion rays. They are cool to
see those overhead shots though,when you can just see so many of
them. Yeah.
Madeline Walden (38:07):
But do they communicate with each other in
any way? Have you? You'venoticed mean or not
Sarah Nevarez (38:11):
that I've noticed with my girls, but I'm assuming
just what their spatialawareness and they've been with
each other for so long. And soI'm like little family.
Erin Lundy (38:20):
Yeah, if you had one thing that you wanted our
listeners to take away fromthis, including the stingray
shuffle. Please do that.
Sarah Nevarez (38:30):
I would say that there's a lot of things about
rays that maybe aren't superobvious so that people don't
know like difference betweenMandarin Stingray, which we
talked about. Did we talk aboutthat? Yeah. I thought we just
did it before. And there's somany different species of rays
out there. It's not just thebatteries that live in the sand
or the runways that live in thesand. So I would encourage
(38:52):
people to go out and research orif you're curious about
something, find out as much asyou can about it. I mean, I work
with these batteries everysingle day. And I still for this
had wanted to look up differentfacts and different things about
them. Because there's stillstuff that I don't know. And so
I would just encourage people tokeep researching what they're
curious about, especially aboutrays because they're so cool.
(39:13):
Keep your curiosity. Curiosityup.
Madeline Walden (39:17):
The rays of curiosity
Erin Lundy (39:20):
to Sarah yourself.
Madeline Walden (39:24):
She's got enough. Yeah.
Aquarium of the Podcific (39:26):
send them to us
Madeline Walden (39:29):
I think they might have rays in every gallery
right now. Let's see. Maybe notin northern specifically
Sarah Nevarez (39:40):
in that northern proper area, no.
Erin Lundy (39:43):
Northern proper. Oh, do
Sarah Nevarez (39:45):
we wait, we
Madeline Walden (39:45):
had a little there was a little sandy bottom
right. That's the name of theexhibits.
Sarah Nevarez (39:53):
What are you laughing at? Because the bottom
anyways, no, I don't thinkthere's any up there. Okay,
Madeline Walden (39:59):
so we have rays in just about every gallery here
at the Aquarium so Sarah istalking specifically about the
race she works with. But I knowwe have a low res and tropical
we have several species andtropical of two so you can visit
the aquarium soon we'll be ableto see stingrays pretty much
everywhere. Um, see thefloppies. Yeah. Thank you,
Sarah, thank you so much forjoining us on the podcast today.
I learned so much about rays.And I'm excited for our audience
(40:20):
to do the same. Of course, thank
Sarah Nevarez (40:22):
you so much.
Madeline Walden (40:29):
Aquarium of the Podcific is brought to you by
Aquarium of the Podcific a 501 Cthree nonprofit organization in
2023. The aquarium celebrates 25years of connecting millions of
people worldwide to the beautyand wonder of our ocean planet.
Head to aquarium of pacific.orgto learn more about our 25th
anniversary celebration. Keep upwith the aquarium on social
(40:49):
media at aquarium Pacific ontick tock Instagram, Facebook,
Twitter and LinkedIn.
Erin Lundy (40:54):
This podcast is produced by Erin Lundy, Madeline
Walden and Scott Shaw. Our musicis by Andrew Wright's MA and our
podcast art is by Brandy Kenny,special thanks to Cecile Fisher
and Anita vias and our audiovisual and education
departments. And to all of ouramazing podcast guests for
taking time out of their day totalk about the important work
that they do. I'd cific wouldn'tbe possible without the support
(41:16):
of the aquarium stoners,members, guests and supporters.
Thanks for listening
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