October 3, 2025 • 24 mins
🎓 Monika al Shurbaghi im Gespräch mit Alifa Rifaat (1930-1996). Die ägyptische Schriftsellerin Alifa Rifaat ist eine der bedeutensten arabischen Schriftsteller:innen des 20. Jahrhunderts gewesen. In ihren Kurzgeschichten schildert sie ungeniert weiblicher Sexualität, Beziehungen und Verluste in der ländlichen ägyptischen Kultur. Ihre Geschichten versuchten nicht, das patriarchalische System zu untergraben, sondern dienten dazu, die Probleme einer patriarchalischen Gesellschaft darzustellen, in der Männer sich nicht an Koranvorschriften halten. Insbesondere ihre Schilderungen der Beschneidungen von Frauen, gegen die Sie sich immer einsetzte, und die heute in Ägypten und Sudan noch üblich ist, erregte große Aufmerksamkeit. Das Gespräch ist eine seltene Interviewaufnahme mit Alifaa Rifaat in Kairo 1992.
/🎓 Monika al Shurbaghi in conversation with Alifa Rifaat (1930-1996). Egyptian writer Alifa Rifaat was one of the most important Arab writers of the 20th century. In her short stories, she unabashedly depicts female sexuality, relationships and loss in rural Egyptian culture. Her stories did not attempt to undermine the patriarchal system, but served to portray the problems of a patriarchal society in which men do not adhere to Koranic precepts. In particular, her descriptions of female circumcision, which she always opposed and which is still common practice in Egypt and Sudan today, attracted a great deal of attention. The conversation is a rare interview recording with Alifaa Rifaat in Cairo in 1992.
/🎓 مونيكا الشرباغي في حوار مع أليفة رفعت (1930-1996). كانت الكاتبة المصرية أليفة رفعت واحدة من أهم الكاتبات العربيات في القرن العشرين. في قصصها القصيرة، تصف دون خجل الجنس الأنثوي والعلاقات والخسائر في الثقافة الريفية المصرية. لم تكن قصصها تحاول تقويض النظام الأبوي، بل كانت تهدف إلى تصوير مشاكل المجتمع الأبوي الذي لا يلتزم فيه الرجال بأحكام القرآن. وقد حظيت وصفاتها لختان النساء، الذي لطالما ناضلت ضده، والذي لا يزال شائعًا اليوم في مصر والسودان، باهتمام كبير. المحادثة هي تسجيل نادر لمقابلة مع عليفة رفعت في القاهرة عام 1992.
📚 Veröffentlichungen u.a. / المنشورات وغيرها / Publications a.o.:
- Alifaa Rifaat: "Das Mädchen von Burdain." Unionsverlag, Zürich 1995.
- Alifa Rifaat: "Die zweite Nacht nach tausend Nächten." Edition Orient, Berlin 1991.
- Alifa Riffat: "Distant view of a minarett and other stories." Waveland Pr. Inc., Long Grove, Illinois 2014.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:08):
Welcome to Audio Archive,
the channel for historical interviews with writers, philosophers, activists and intellectuals
from all over the world.
(00:34):
Hello, Alifa Rifat is one of the most important writers in the Arab world.
She was born in 1930 in Cairo and comes from a wealthy family.
Her father was an architect and her mother a housewife.
The family claimed that their roots date back to the Ummah in Al-Khatab, a companion and advisor of the Prophet Muhammad.
(01:01):
She first visited the British Institute in Cairo from 1946 to 1949.
According to the conservative Islamic parents' house, the parents appointed a husband for their daughter.
With this she was denied further education at a university and instead she married her cousin, a policeman.
(01:25):
Early on, Alifa Rifat discovered her passion for literature and first wrote poems, later short stories.
What was also unproblematic at the beginning of her marriage, became a problem when these stories
were published between 1955 and 1960.
Literature was considered a male domain in the Arab world and also in Egypt.
(01:50):
Finally, her husband forbade her from writing and published Alifa Rifat for 14 years.
Only in 1973, after her husband had survived a serious illness, he allowed her to write again
and published it in quick succession novels and short stories.
(02:11):
These immediately attracted Alifa Rifat's public attention.
Although her stories mainly took place in the Egyptian province, they dealt with women's fates
in a patriarchal Muslim society.
Alifa Rifat wrote about previously taboo topics such as sex, death, marriage, masturbation,
(02:34):
clitoridectomy, i.e. the far-reaching operational distance of clitoral ejaculation as an initiation
rite, love, teenage pregnancy and widowhood, as well as other controversial topics.
Her books were translated from Arabic into numerous languages, literature notes in the show notes.
(02:55):
Although Alifa Rifat described the sexual oppression of women, she was firmly anchored in Islamic life.
Two years after the death of her husband, she made the pilgrimage to Mecca in 1981.
In 1996, the famous Egyptian writer died in Cairo.
(03:17):
The conversation was held in Cairo in 1992 and is a rare time document.
Can you tell us how you started writing, a little about your personal story?
I started writing when I was very young, about nine or ten years old.
(03:38):
In the summer, they took us to our country, the countryside, so I would look out the window
at the farmers and see the poverty they were living in, while we were in our big house in the countryside.
So I would compare the poverty we were living in with the poverty they were living in before the revolution.
(04:00):
The children, who were older than me, were having a hard time because they couldn't find anything.
Their mothers would bring the little girls to their mother and tell her to take them just so
they could find a clean bite.
They couldn't even find food.
So I was very affected by them and I would see the Chinese houses they were living in.
(04:25):
So they were having a hard time.
I also had an older sister who was always bullying me and torturing me.
So that made me try to express my feelings by writing a story.
Like we write in school, I wrote a story about our country.
I was tired of these houses and the countryside.
(04:49):
I wrote that it was burned.
It was during the World War.
A bomb came and burned it. To rebuild it again.
I was also upset with my family because my father was married to another woman.
I didn't know if I was an orphan or if my father was alive because we were deprived of his care.
(05:10):
So I was very upset. I said, everyone died.
Everyone was killed in this bomb.
I was the only one who survived.
I was like a bird that flew away.
So when my sister saw this story, she cut it.
She told me to do a useful job.
She told me to stop being a hero.
She told me to work with my brothers.
(05:35):
We used to make a machine for her.
She always wanted to be at her service.
So I cut the story.
I started to like drawing and music.
I tried all the arts.
This was the first story I wrote.
Then I stopped writing stories.
I spent a long time practicing other arts. Until my sister died. She died.
(06:04):
I had a childhood friend.
This was my first love when I was young.
He was the only one who protected me.
He was not afraid of my sister.
Everyone was afraid of her. Even the adults.
Everyone heard what she said.
He said, when we grow up, we will get married. He died too.
(06:26):
I was affected by death.
I was in my late teens.
I started to think about the consequences of life. What is death?
I started to look for death and consequences.
I wrote a story about my sister. We were getting married.
I wrote a story about my sister who died. I published it.
(06:51):
I was waiting for my husband to bring me a gold pen.
He was a police officer. I had a daughter. We were in Maadi.
My family was in Egypt.
He took me home at 9 p.m. With my uncle.
He told me to do my things at home.
(07:14):
I got home at 9 p.m.
I left my other grandmother.
She came to stay with us.
After dinner, he told me, If you thought you would leave my house, You wouldn't stay with us because of a book. No.
My father has a library. He loves reading.
The whole family loves reading.
I didn't want to write.
He told me to go back to my family's house.
(07:35):
He told my brother to bring me back.
My brother told me, You will destroy your house because of a book.
I told him to leave me alone.
I told him to leave me alone.
He told me to write a book.
He told me not to tell anyone.
I started to write a book. My daughter, Banha.
When we moved to Banha, I wrote a book called Banha.
(07:57):
At first, it was Aida.
At first, it was Alifa. It wasn't Alifa Rifaat. I was Alifa only.
My real name is Fatma.
Until I was 60, My husband discovered it.
He chose me to write.
Or to live with him.
I was his second child.
I didn't want my children to feel sorry for me.
(08:18):
I didn't want my children to feel sorry for me.
I didn't want them to be deprived of their father.
If I had left him, He would have married someone else.
He would have been in the same situation I was in when I was a child.
I sent a letter to the authors of the story.
They were in Egypt at the time. They encouraged me.
They told me I was talented.
They told me I was talented.
I sent them a reply.
(08:39):
I told them it was better for me to be a famous mother than to be a famous writer.
I became famous with this sentence.
I became famous with this sentence.
I became famous with this sentence.
I stayed at home for 15 years. I raised my children. I raised my children.
I lived in the country with my husband until he grew up.
(09:02):
When I got a psychological condition, When I got a psychological condition, I used to complain.
They used to treat me.
They used to treat me.
There was a young doctor who told me it was a psychological condition.
He told me it was a psychological condition.
He told me it was a psychological condition.
(10:18):
They told me to get rid of the sentence.
They didn't want me to be looked down They didn't want me to be looked down
I didn't know what I was going to do. I started writing. I started writing.
When my husband died, He was a man with a vision for a famous writer.
(10:40):
He was a man with a vision for a famous writer. He translated the poem.
He liked it and wanted to have a group of his.
He liked it and wanted to have a group of his.
He translated to different languages.
He translated to different languages. He asked for stories.
(11:01):
Where do you write?
During the 15 years I spent in this house, he wouldn't stop me from reading.
So I used to read books in the house.
But I lost my talent.
I read in general knowledge. I read in everything.
(11:23):
And I found my goals.
I used to ask my grandmothers, my mother and my family.
Because most of our family get married at the age of 2 or 3.
So I used to ask them, why do you get married at the age of 9?
So I used to ask them, why do you get married at the age of 2 or 3?
(11:48):
Because we are religious, we don't go out of the religious circle.
So why does the man want only one wife?
So they started to look at sex.
So I started to look at sex.
So they started to look at sex.
And my husband was a bit shy.
So I started to study this subject.
(12:09):
So they started to look at sex.
So I tried to study it.
The second thing is death.
Because I was hit by it when I was young.
So I tried to know what's after life.
Is there a life after death?
And what is our destiny?
I mean, it's not possible that God created the whole world and created the universe all by himself.
(12:32):
I mean, it's not possible.
And then where are we going?
So when we sleep, our soul leaves.
Is this soul a second or a third?
So I started to ask questions.
So I found myself looking for two things. Death and sex.
So this became my goal.
And I still study them and look for them.
(12:54):
I look for death and sex.
Because they are my goal in life.
I mean, a lot of people tell me that sex is not a problem.
No, this is a very big problem.
Because marital life is based on it.
And if it is not healthy between the spouses, very serious problems arise between them. Especially in our society.
(13:15):
Because we are a closed society.
I mean, Western societies practice these subjects freely.
And they choose each other based on science. But we don't. We don't. We are closed ignorance.
So there must be enlightenment.
So I took on the same goal.
That in my story, there must be some kind of enlightenment for this subject.
(13:39):
I mean, I refer to these subjects as enlightenment and as a study.
Some people take these subjects as captivity.
I am away from captivity.
I mean enlightenment and I mean study. That's it.
This is my goal in life.
Do you think you will succeed?
I mean, do you think that people who read your stories will be enlightened?
(14:07):
Yes, I succeeded to some extent.
I mean, a lot of people take it as a study.
And a lot of people understand it.
I mean, for example, my story about chastity.
I was able to change the perspective of many people.
And they were convinced of the chastity of their daughters.
And they were convinced that this is not Islam or anything.
And that this is an exclusion from the ancient Egyptians.
(14:27):
And it is not Islam.
So they were convinced of the chastity of their daughters in this shameful way.
For example, the issue of honor.
This has changed a lot.
The story of the brutal assault that happens in the world of chastity. This has changed.
Of course, not only me.
I mean, a lot of people talk about doctors and there is a law and there are many things.
(14:49):
But I changed my perspective.
Not only in these things.
For example, I wrote a story about how they were kicking us out of the mosques at the time of prayer.
There is now a place for women dedicated to women at the time of prayer. The big mosques.
I mean, I'm not saying it's just me.
No, there are others who say it too.
(15:11):
I mean, this is a message that I did not raise alone.
Others do not talk about it.
I mean, the issues of these personal relationships, marital and these things.
All the writers write about it, not just me.
But I may have looked at it because I was a little brave in my treatment.
(15:33):
But of course there is an impact.
I mean, I've been working for 15 or 20 years.
I write, I write, I write.
It is necessary for someone to be affected.
Even if one person, for example.
I mean, it is necessary to get a result. These are hopes.
And I wish, of course, that the public would be freer than that.
(15:54):
And they would deal with these issues more boldly on television and in the cinema.
But unfortunately, we have censorship.
It prohibits the consumption of these things.
They may show views, for example, for people who come to consume drugs.
They consume and make low-key views.
But they come to study things that reflect the real impact and the real enlightenment.
(16:17):
Do you think that there is a specific role for writers in Egypt? Writers? Yes, writers.
I mean, for female characters who write literature. What is their role? A specific role?
No, of course, it's not just the writers.
The writers are the writers.
I mean, everyone who writes has a role in all aspects of life. There is no specialization.
(16:42):
I mean, I wrote in all aspects.
But they chose this aspect and focused on it.
Because they found me, for example, bold.
They found me, maybe, expressing myself because I am personally violent.
They found me writing honestly.
But it is supposed that the writer writes in all aspects.
I mean, there is no specific aspect.
(17:03):
Writers write in all aspects.
There is no left side.
All the writers here wrote in everything. They didn't do anything.
But when, for example, you said that you changed something in your writing. For example, the donkey.
I mean, this is a specific experience for the female.
Because she is the only one who experiences this experience.
(17:25):
The female is the only one who experiences the experience.
I mean, the experience of the donkey, or the experience of the wife, or the experience of the mother who gave birth.
I mean, of course, the writer can write about her female experience. She writes, of course.
But for me, I mean, there are many writers. Nawal al-Saadawi wrote. There are many writers.
(17:46):
There is a writer who wrote a film about divorce.
I want to solve it.
She wrote a big problem. Not nice like you.
No, not nice like me.
When did you see the film?
Of course, they give good news. Because there is development. There are new writers.
(18:06):
I mean, I didn't read all of them.
So that I can talk about them.
What do you think of the new development, or the new things in this generation?
(18:30):
I mean, there are writers who are younger than you now.
I mean, of course, my view is different. Maybe more liberal.
For example, unfortunately, they are far from me. I don't know.
I mean, they have their values. Not our values.
I mean, their upbringing is not our upbringing. I don't know.
(18:50):
I tell you, every generation has its own concepts and standards.
So, I can't judge them.
But, of course, they express themselves about their generation. And about their circumstances. This is their nature. This is their modernity.
You are the great lady of literature in Egypt.
(19:12):
The great lady, not in terms of age, but in terms of art. Yes.
What do you think of the society and the artists? Do you appreciate them?
Or do you feel an impact? Do you appreciate them? No.
When I wrote, I was content to write.
(19:35):
I was happy to write and publish.
I didn't wait for appreciation or impact.
You know, this is a pleasure.
I didn't wait for appreciation or impact.
I didn't even think about it.
Even if they tell me, for example, that I didn't give them awards. I don't care.
I don't care about awards or appreciation or anything. Leave them alone.
(19:59):
I don't care if they tell me that I'm good.
I consider it as a compliment.
I mean, it's not my goal.
I mean, I didn't wait for it.
I didn't wait for appreciation from anyone.
Because when I write, I let myself go. I let myself go.
My goal is that I have something in me that I want to say. And I say it. That's it.
(20:25):
I don't wait for appreciation.
I don't wait for anything.
There is no help or appreciation from the audience.
Because you are a little older now. I mean, not much.
But anyway, I mean, of course.
And you affected me in a way.
And there is a little help or people who rely on you.
(20:48):
From artists or, for example, from Makran Mohamed Ahmed. From the Hilal.
All of them encourage me.
All of them say that I wrote well and talented.
All of them are the truth.
But I tell you, I don't accept this appreciation.
I mean, I ask for it or wait for it.
I mean, it's normal for me.
(21:11):
I didn't expect it from anyone.
I mean, when I translated it, I reached the top.
The top of the top.
There is more than that.
But I mean, all my life, I don't look at these things.
I mean, when we were studying in Nimsah.
And I talked about, they asked me.
(21:33):
To talk about marriage with four in Islam.
And the conference was Islamic.
But most of the attendees were attacking Islam. I defended.
So there was a lot of anger.
Anis Mansour came and told me, there are people who are very angry with you.
I told him, it doesn't matter. How do you know?
I'm not waiting for people to give me five minutes of continuous sarcasm.
(21:57):
Who were there when I spoke.
And a professor came and greeted me and said, may God bless you.
Because I spoke, I mean, praise be to God.
I spoke the right words.
So when I speak, I speak honestly.
I don't wait for people to be happy or angry with me.
I mean, I speak for the sake of God.
(22:19):
I mean, I speak for the truth.
I don't wait for people to be angry or happy. I speak the truth.
And those who like it, like it.
And those who don't like it, don't like it.
I don't wait for appreciation.
So Anis Mansour came the next morning.
He said, what did you say?
I said, by God, I said the truth.
He said, there are a lot of people who are angry.
(22:40):
I said, by God, I have lost my conscience and I have lost my patience. I will keep quiet.
There are people who are happy and there are people who are angry.
I mean, they are free.
I mean, I am not going to please all people.
There are people who will be upset and there are people who will be happy.
There are people who will say, Alifa Rifat, this is a great writer.
There are people who will say, what is this? You are saying nonsense.
(23:02):
I mean, in Mahat-Ghouta, when they were having the conference, which is between the German and
Egyptian writers, there were people who gave me the top.
And there was an Egyptian writer, an Egyptian writer, who attacked me.
And I said, you made sex a problem, but it is not a problem that we all practice.
Of course, animals also practice it.
But it is a study.
Today, there are a lot of books that are distorted because of it.
(23:24):
How can you say that all people practice it?
So, everyone has a point of view.
I mean, I will not be able to please all people.
And I will not be able to find, I mean, I will find appreciation from all people. It is not possible.
So, I do not wait.
And I do not look around.
I mean, I do not look around whether people are happy or not.
(23:45):
In your opinion, what is the best and most beautiful book that you have ever written?
A book or a short story, for example. A short story.
I am very proud of the novel of Gawhar Farawan.
But the short story that I love, Alami Al-Makhoosh, because it had something real.
(24:14):
There was something real and stubborn about it. I wrote the truth.
I mean, the stories of tiredness turned out to be real.
So, I wrote the truth.
I mean, there was a change in my life and a sign of signs that I will never forget.
Thank you for being with Audio Archive.
(24:36):
Follow us, then you will not miss an episode.
And do not forget the like button.
See you next week, your Audio Archive team.
Bye-bye.
Welcome to Audio Archive,
the channel for historical interviews with writers, philosophers, activists and intellectuals
from all over the world.
(00:34):
Hello, Alifa Rifat is one of the most important writers in the Arab world.
She was born in 1930 in Cairo and comes from a wealthy family.
Her father was an architect and her mother a housewife.
The family claimed that their roots date back to the Ummah in Al-Khatab, a companion and advisor of the Prophet Muhammad.
(01:01):
She first visited the British Institute in Cairo from 1946 to 1949.
According to the conservative Islamic parents' house, the parents appointed a husband for their daughter.
With this she was denied further education at a university and instead she married her cousin, a policeman.
(01:25):
Early on, Alifa Rifat discovered her passion for literature and first wrote poems, later short stories.
What was also unproblematic at the beginning of her marriage, became a problem when these stories
were published between 1955 and 1960.
Literature was considered a male domain in the Arab world and also in Egypt.
(01:50):
Finally, her husband forbade her from writing and published Alifa Rifat for 14 years.
Only in 1973, after her husband had survived a serious illness, he allowed her to write again
and published it in quick succession novels and short stories.
(02:11):
These immediately attracted Alifa Rifat's public attention.
Although her stories mainly took place in the Egyptian province, they dealt with women's fates
in a patriarchal Muslim society.
Alifa Rifat wrote about previously taboo topics such as sex, death, marriage, masturbation,
(02:34):
clitoridectomy, i.e. the far-reaching operational distance of clitoral ejaculation as an initiation
rite, love, teenage pregnancy and widowhood, as well as other controversial topics.
Her books were translated from Arabic into numerous languages, literature notes in the show notes.
(02:55):
Although Alifa Rifat described the sexual oppression of women, she was firmly anchored in Islamic life.
Two years after the death of her husband, she made the pilgrimage to Mecca in 1981.
In 1996, the famous Egyptian writer died in Cairo.
(03:17):
The conversation was held in Cairo in 1992 and is a rare time document.
Can you tell us how you started writing, a little about your personal story?
I started writing when I was very young, about nine or ten years old.
(03:38):
In the summer, they took us to our country, the countryside, so I would look out the window
at the farmers and see the poverty they were living in, while we were in our big house in the countryside.
So I would compare the poverty we were living in with the poverty they were living in before the revolution.
(04:00):
The children, who were older than me, were having a hard time because they couldn't find anything.
Their mothers would bring the little girls to their mother and tell her to take them just so
they could find a clean bite.
They couldn't even find food.
So I was very affected by them and I would see the Chinese houses they were living in.
(04:25):
So they were having a hard time.
I also had an older sister who was always bullying me and torturing me.
So that made me try to express my feelings by writing a story.
Like we write in school, I wrote a story about our country.
I was tired of these houses and the countryside.
(04:49):
I wrote that it was burned.
It was during the World War.
A bomb came and burned it. To rebuild it again.
I was also upset with my family because my father was married to another woman.
I didn't know if I was an orphan or if my father was alive because we were deprived of his care.
(05:10):
So I was very upset. I said, everyone died.
Everyone was killed in this bomb.
I was the only one who survived.
I was like a bird that flew away.
So when my sister saw this story, she cut it.
She told me to do a useful job.
She told me to stop being a hero.
She told me to work with my brothers.
(05:35):
We used to make a machine for her.
She always wanted to be at her service.
So I cut the story.
I started to like drawing and music.
I tried all the arts.
This was the first story I wrote.
Then I stopped writing stories.
I spent a long time practicing other arts. Until my sister died. She died.
(06:04):
I had a childhood friend.
This was my first love when I was young.
He was the only one who protected me.
He was not afraid of my sister.
Everyone was afraid of her. Even the adults.
Everyone heard what she said.
He said, when we grow up, we will get married. He died too.
(06:26):
I was affected by death.
I was in my late teens.
I started to think about the consequences of life. What is death?
I started to look for death and consequences.
I wrote a story about my sister. We were getting married.
I wrote a story about my sister who died. I published it.
(06:51):
I was waiting for my husband to bring me a gold pen.
He was a police officer. I had a daughter. We were in Maadi.
My family was in Egypt.
He took me home at 9 p.m. With my uncle.
He told me to do my things at home.
(07:14):
I got home at 9 p.m.
I left my other grandmother.
She came to stay with us.
After dinner, he told me, If you thought you would leave my house, You wouldn't stay with us because of a book. No.
My father has a library. He loves reading.
The whole family loves reading.
I didn't want to write.
He told me to go back to my family's house.
(07:35):
He told my brother to bring me back.
My brother told me, You will destroy your house because of a book.
I told him to leave me alone.
I told him to leave me alone.
He told me to write a book.
He told me not to tell anyone.
I started to write a book. My daughter, Banha.
When we moved to Banha, I wrote a book called Banha.
(07:57):
At first, it was Aida.
At first, it was Alifa. It wasn't Alifa Rifaat. I was Alifa only.
My real name is Fatma.
Until I was 60, My husband discovered it.
He chose me to write.
Or to live with him.
I was his second child.
I didn't want my children to feel sorry for me.
(08:18):
I didn't want my children to feel sorry for me.
I didn't want them to be deprived of their father.
If I had left him, He would have married someone else.
He would have been in the same situation I was in when I was a child.
I sent a letter to the authors of the story.
They were in Egypt at the time. They encouraged me.
They told me I was talented.
They told me I was talented.
I sent them a reply.
(08:39):
I told them it was better for me to be a famous mother than to be a famous writer.
I became famous with this sentence.
I became famous with this sentence.
I became famous with this sentence.
I stayed at home for 15 years. I raised my children. I raised my children.
I lived in the country with my husband until he grew up.
(09:02):
When I got a psychological condition, When I got a psychological condition, I used to complain.
They used to treat me.
They used to treat me.
There was a young doctor who told me it was a psychological condition.
He told me it was a psychological condition.
He told me it was a psychological condition.
(10:18):
They told me to get rid of the sentence.
They didn't want me to be looked down They didn't want me to be looked down
I didn't know what I was going to do. I started writing. I started writing.
When my husband died, He was a man with a vision for a famous writer.
(10:40):
He was a man with a vision for a famous writer. He translated the poem.
He liked it and wanted to have a group of his.
He liked it and wanted to have a group of his.
He translated to different languages.
He translated to different languages. He asked for stories.
(11:01):
Where do you write?
During the 15 years I spent in this house, he wouldn't stop me from reading.
So I used to read books in the house.
But I lost my talent.
I read in general knowledge. I read in everything.
(11:23):
And I found my goals.
I used to ask my grandmothers, my mother and my family.
Because most of our family get married at the age of 2 or 3.
So I used to ask them, why do you get married at the age of 9?
So I used to ask them, why do you get married at the age of 2 or 3?
(11:48):
Because we are religious, we don't go out of the religious circle.
So why does the man want only one wife?
So they started to look at sex.
So I started to look at sex.
So they started to look at sex.
And my husband was a bit shy.
So I started to study this subject.
(12:09):
So they started to look at sex.
So I tried to study it.
The second thing is death.
Because I was hit by it when I was young.
So I tried to know what's after life.
Is there a life after death?
And what is our destiny?
I mean, it's not possible that God created the whole world and created the universe all by himself.
(12:32):
I mean, it's not possible.
And then where are we going?
So when we sleep, our soul leaves.
Is this soul a second or a third?
So I started to ask questions.
So I found myself looking for two things. Death and sex.
So this became my goal.
And I still study them and look for them.
(12:54):
I look for death and sex.
Because they are my goal in life.
I mean, a lot of people tell me that sex is not a problem.
No, this is a very big problem.
Because marital life is based on it.
And if it is not healthy between the spouses, very serious problems arise between them. Especially in our society.
(13:15):
Because we are a closed society.
I mean, Western societies practice these subjects freely.
And they choose each other based on science. But we don't. We don't. We are closed ignorance.
So there must be enlightenment.
So I took on the same goal.
That in my story, there must be some kind of enlightenment for this subject.
(13:39):
I mean, I refer to these subjects as enlightenment and as a study.
Some people take these subjects as captivity.
I am away from captivity.
I mean enlightenment and I mean study. That's it.
This is my goal in life.
Do you think you will succeed?
I mean, do you think that people who read your stories will be enlightened?
(14:07):
Yes, I succeeded to some extent.
I mean, a lot of people take it as a study.
And a lot of people understand it.
I mean, for example, my story about chastity.
I was able to change the perspective of many people.
And they were convinced of the chastity of their daughters.
And they were convinced that this is not Islam or anything.
And that this is an exclusion from the ancient Egyptians.
(14:27):
And it is not Islam.
So they were convinced of the chastity of their daughters in this shameful way.
For example, the issue of honor.
This has changed a lot.
The story of the brutal assault that happens in the world of chastity. This has changed.
Of course, not only me.
I mean, a lot of people talk about doctors and there is a law and there are many things.
(14:49):
But I changed my perspective.
Not only in these things.
For example, I wrote a story about how they were kicking us out of the mosques at the time of prayer.
There is now a place for women dedicated to women at the time of prayer. The big mosques.
I mean, I'm not saying it's just me.
No, there are others who say it too.
(15:11):
I mean, this is a message that I did not raise alone.
Others do not talk about it.
I mean, the issues of these personal relationships, marital and these things.
All the writers write about it, not just me.
But I may have looked at it because I was a little brave in my treatment.
(15:33):
But of course there is an impact.
I mean, I've been working for 15 or 20 years.
I write, I write, I write.
It is necessary for someone to be affected.
Even if one person, for example.
I mean, it is necessary to get a result. These are hopes.
And I wish, of course, that the public would be freer than that.
(15:54):
And they would deal with these issues more boldly on television and in the cinema.
But unfortunately, we have censorship.
It prohibits the consumption of these things.
They may show views, for example, for people who come to consume drugs.
They consume and make low-key views.
But they come to study things that reflect the real impact and the real enlightenment.
(16:17):
Do you think that there is a specific role for writers in Egypt? Writers? Yes, writers.
I mean, for female characters who write literature. What is their role? A specific role?
No, of course, it's not just the writers.
The writers are the writers.
I mean, everyone who writes has a role in all aspects of life. There is no specialization.
(16:42):
I mean, I wrote in all aspects.
But they chose this aspect and focused on it.
Because they found me, for example, bold.
They found me, maybe, expressing myself because I am personally violent.
They found me writing honestly.
But it is supposed that the writer writes in all aspects.
I mean, there is no specific aspect.
(17:03):
Writers write in all aspects.
There is no left side.
All the writers here wrote in everything. They didn't do anything.
But when, for example, you said that you changed something in your writing. For example, the donkey.
I mean, this is a specific experience for the female.
Because she is the only one who experiences this experience.
(17:25):
The female is the only one who experiences the experience.
I mean, the experience of the donkey, or the experience of the wife, or the experience of the mother who gave birth.
I mean, of course, the writer can write about her female experience. She writes, of course.
But for me, I mean, there are many writers. Nawal al-Saadawi wrote. There are many writers.
(17:46):
There is a writer who wrote a film about divorce.
I want to solve it.
She wrote a big problem. Not nice like you.
No, not nice like me.
When did you see the film?
Of course, they give good news. Because there is development. There are new writers.
(18:06):
I mean, I didn't read all of them.
So that I can talk about them.
What do you think of the new development, or the new things in this generation?
(18:30):
I mean, there are writers who are younger than you now.
I mean, of course, my view is different. Maybe more liberal.
For example, unfortunately, they are far from me. I don't know.
I mean, they have their values. Not our values.
I mean, their upbringing is not our upbringing. I don't know.
(18:50):
I tell you, every generation has its own concepts and standards.
So, I can't judge them.
But, of course, they express themselves about their generation. And about their circumstances. This is their nature. This is their modernity.
You are the great lady of literature in Egypt.
(19:12):
The great lady, not in terms of age, but in terms of art. Yes.
What do you think of the society and the artists? Do you appreciate them?
Or do you feel an impact? Do you appreciate them? No.
When I wrote, I was content to write.
(19:35):
I was happy to write and publish.
I didn't wait for appreciation or impact.
You know, this is a pleasure.
I didn't wait for appreciation or impact.
I didn't even think about it.
Even if they tell me, for example, that I didn't give them awards. I don't care.
I don't care about awards or appreciation or anything. Leave them alone.
(19:59):
I don't care if they tell me that I'm good.
I consider it as a compliment.
I mean, it's not my goal.
I mean, I didn't wait for it.
I didn't wait for appreciation from anyone.
Because when I write, I let myself go. I let myself go.
My goal is that I have something in me that I want to say. And I say it. That's it.
(20:25):
I don't wait for appreciation.
I don't wait for anything.
There is no help or appreciation from the audience.
Because you are a little older now. I mean, not much.
But anyway, I mean, of course.
And you affected me in a way.
And there is a little help or people who rely on you.
(20:48):
From artists or, for example, from Makran Mohamed Ahmed. From the Hilal.
All of them encourage me.
All of them say that I wrote well and talented.
All of them are the truth.
But I tell you, I don't accept this appreciation.
I mean, I ask for it or wait for it.
I mean, it's normal for me.
(21:11):
I didn't expect it from anyone.
I mean, when I translated it, I reached the top.
The top of the top.
There is more than that.
But I mean, all my life, I don't look at these things.
I mean, when we were studying in Nimsah.
And I talked about, they asked me.
(21:33):
To talk about marriage with four in Islam.
And the conference was Islamic.
But most of the attendees were attacking Islam. I defended.
So there was a lot of anger.
Anis Mansour came and told me, there are people who are very angry with you.
I told him, it doesn't matter. How do you know?
I'm not waiting for people to give me five minutes of continuous sarcasm.
(21:57):
Who were there when I spoke.
And a professor came and greeted me and said, may God bless you.
Because I spoke, I mean, praise be to God.
I spoke the right words.
So when I speak, I speak honestly.
I don't wait for people to be happy or angry with me.
I mean, I speak for the sake of God.
(22:19):
I mean, I speak for the truth.
I don't wait for people to be angry or happy. I speak the truth.
And those who like it, like it.
And those who don't like it, don't like it.
I don't wait for appreciation.
So Anis Mansour came the next morning.
He said, what did you say?
I said, by God, I said the truth.
He said, there are a lot of people who are angry.
(22:40):
I said, by God, I have lost my conscience and I have lost my patience. I will keep quiet.
There are people who are happy and there are people who are angry.
I mean, they are free.
I mean, I am not going to please all people.
There are people who will be upset and there are people who will be happy.
There are people who will say, Alifa Rifat, this is a great writer.
There are people who will say, what is this? You are saying nonsense.
(23:02):
I mean, in Mahat-Ghouta, when they were having the conference, which is between the German and
Egyptian writers, there were people who gave me the top.
And there was an Egyptian writer, an Egyptian writer, who attacked me.
And I said, you made sex a problem, but it is not a problem that we all practice.
Of course, animals also practice it.
But it is a study.
Today, there are a lot of books that are distorted because of it.
(23:24):
How can you say that all people practice it?
So, everyone has a point of view.
I mean, I will not be able to please all people.
And I will not be able to find, I mean, I will find appreciation from all people. It is not possible.
So, I do not wait.
And I do not look around.
I mean, I do not look around whether people are happy or not.
(23:45):
In your opinion, what is the best and most beautiful book that you have ever written?
A book or a short story, for example. A short story.
I am very proud of the novel of Gawhar Farawan.
But the short story that I love, Alami Al-Makhoosh, because it had something real.
(24:14):
There was something real and stubborn about it. I wrote the truth.
I mean, the stories of tiredness turned out to be real.
So, I wrote the truth.
I mean, there was a change in my life and a sign of signs that I will never forget.
Thank you for being with Audio Archive.
(24:36):
Follow us, then you will not miss an episode.
And do not forget the like button.
See you next week, your Audio Archive team.
Bye-bye.
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