Championing Inclusion with Dr. Tammy Hodo

In this inspiring episode of "Becoming a Financially Confident Woman", host Dr. April Murdaugh converses with Dr. Tammy Hodo, CEO of All Things Diverse. The in-depth discussion traverses Tammy's significant journey advocating diversity and inclusion as tools for transforming businesses and communities.

An expose of her experiences, from face-offs with institutional racism and sexism to establishing a business promoting diverse and inclusive workspaces, this candid conversation offers invaluable insights for women entrepreneurs. Beyond the professional realm, you learn about the undying resilience of a multiethnic woman turning adversity into success while promoting equity and social justice.

Moving from individual to societal narratives, the episode explores systemic biases and their impacts, highlighting the persisting racial disparities despite well-intentioned laws. It addresses poignant hustles like high infant mortality rates among African Americans, over-policing, and generational wealth discrepancies. Expect a meticulous analysis on historical practices responsible for these disparities.

Then, Dr. Tammy Hodo takes us deeper, illuminating the effects of housing policies and practices such as suburbanization on minority communities. It's an eye-opening exploration of historical structures perpetuating socioeconomic gaps. However, it's not all under the hammer; the episode provides constructive solutions: cultural competence, pedagogic reform, and mentorship.

Firmly believing in the power of empathy and shared histories as societal glue, the episode urges building cultural intelligence and takes a stand against stereotypical representations of diverse cultures. Join this enlightening discourse about diversity, inclusion, and the importance of cultural competence in organizational settings, as we venture through the intricate landscape of societal relations.

Finally, listen to Dr. Hodo champion cultural competence strategies that organizations can adopt to enhance diversity. With a peek into her practical guidebook on handling difficult dialogues about identity, race, and politics, this episode emphasizes the need to go beyond just ticking off diversity and inclusivity checkboxes, urging us to be genuine change agents.

To reach Dr. Hodo visit: www.AllThingsDiverse.com

To watch her TED Talk visit: https://youtu.be/a4jPGhN5TCM?si=mL9mOVleMzIR1Hu1

To get a copy of her book visit: https://amazon.com/Difficult-Conversations-Identity-Politics-Education/dp/1032121432

 

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Music.

(00:13):
All right. Good afternoon, everyone. This is Dr. April Murdoch here again with
another episode of Becoming a Financially Confident Woman.
Hey, listen, I have a very, very, very special guest to me on this podcast.
She is a friend. She is a sister. She's a mover and shaker in the community.
And she stirs it. She lets us know things that we need to be cognizant of when

(00:38):
it comes to ethnicity, diversity, inclusion.
Inclusion but she didn't come to do this
on her own she has a story she has a journey and for
March for Women's History Month I really want to highlight women business owners
and how their ascent how they moved from where they are where they were to where
they are now to give us hope to give other women out there hope that if we have

(01:02):
a vision and we have a dream that it can can be possible.
And so I'm excited here today to welcome my friend, Dr.
Tammy Hodo, CEO of All Things Diverse. So welcome to the podcast.
Thank you so much, Dr. Myrta. I am so pleased to be here and talk with my friend,

(01:22):
my sister girl, and someone who I consider near and dear to my heart.
Ditto right back at you so so talk
is like I met you and I love your
energy like I ain't gonna lie I love I'm a New Yorker
and you know you're not from up
north per se but you came through and you

(01:43):
were like I love that you're just such a straight shooter it was like we connected
the energy connected and so tell me tell everybody listening like your story
how did you get to where you are because you're bad you're badass and we can
pass a little bit on here you're badass and,
tell us how you got where you are now

(02:04):
please okay well everybody i'm from
the midwest right and so when people think about like segregated cities i'm
from the third most segregated city they tend to think of it's in the south
but the reality is the top three are chicago detroit milwaukee and i'm from
milwaukee wow and and i am multi-ethnic or in america as they say biracial so

(02:25):
i grew up in like a really safe white space,
you know, very much cloaked in white privilege.
And I, when I got ready to graduate high school, adult wise,
not at all ready for college, went into the military, best thing could do,
you know, spent four years in the Navy where I got to experience my first bout
of institutional racism as well as sexism.

(02:46):
And the experiences I had, it made me really realize, like, my mom's white privilege
didn't transfer to her brown children.
I mean, that's when I really learned how, okay, I mean, that's when I really learned about color.
Not to say that my parents didn't educate us and we weren't aware, but we were.
But I was not as aware as the Navy really made me.

(03:09):
You know, the squadron I was in, a lot of racial stuff had taken place.
So it's funny because my mom is the European-American or the white American,
and she sent me a list of all the historical Black colleges.
And she said, your father and I spoke, and we think it would be best if you
went to one because we see the damage that has been done from serving this country,

(03:29):
you know, writing that blank check and serving this country during the first Gulf War.
And we see what's been done. We know you're not going to, you know, re-up.
And I was ready to go to college. And so I ended up attending the HBCU,
Albany State University, graduated from there, went on and got my master's at
a PWI, a predominantly white institute.

(03:50):
But when I was in at Albany State, I was actually doing ROTC thinking about
going back in as an officer because I was enlisted, you know, came right in at 17.
And I actually met my husband in ROTC.
And so we dated and he graduated a couple of years ahead of me because he went
right from high school to college and I did the military thing in college.
And so then I basically I got my master's and all that. But I traveled with

(04:14):
him and really wanted to get my doctorate.
And there was a I was able the Ph.D. I wanted was in urban studies.
And there were only two universities that offered it.
And the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, my home was one.
And my husband actually got orders to Wisconsin.
There was one job there for a major and he got the job. And so we got stationed

(04:39):
there and I was able to go ahead and go to the University of Wisconsin. I had a fellowship.
So God, extremely good. I did not pay for my master's or my PhD.
I had fellowships and I had to work on the campus.
And I worked in the Center for Urban Initiatives and Research.
And why this is relevant is because we were implementing the federally funded accidents grant.

(05:00):
And I was the only person of color in the office, which often tends to be the case.
And I know that, you know, we're doing all this training to train the trainers
in different cities to implement this federally funded program.
But when I'm looking at the students, they're implementing this program.
They were all black and brown.
And I'm like, so why are you not doing this program in rural areas or in predominantly white spaces?

(05:25):
And some of the other researchers said, well, because statistics show that those
aren't the ones having children, young having children.
And I said, well, have you ever thought about the cultural implications or religion
or socioeconomic status? Yes.
You know, because it was like they hadn't thought about those variables.

(05:46):
You know, and how that impacts whether someone decides to have a child or not have a child.
It has nothing to do with sex. You know, it's whether you're going to have the child or not.
And it was just like they totally didn't think about that, you know.
And so I wrote my dissertation about the lack of diversity at this PWI.

(06:07):
You know, when I looked at faculty, I had no one that looked like me,
you know. And it's just like, I don't know, statistically, there are more than
enough minorities that have PhDs that could be filling these roles.
But the problem is the universities can recruit them, the PWIs,
but they can't retain them because they don't have the culture,
the cultural competency in order to do so.

(06:30):
You know, so I know like one of your questions is like, you know,
how did I get to where I am? I presented all the things.
So when I traveled with my husband in those 22 years, you know,
once I got my doctorate, I was an adjunct at whatever university was nearby.
So we came to Florida from the Richmond, Virginia area, and I was adjunct at

(06:51):
Virginia Commonwealth University.
Loved it there. Right. And that is in the capital of the Confederacy.
Yes. But it was like they were awake. They even have a Confederate museum.
I have to say that because I walked back. But, of course, right in,
well, not into it, but right by it, I was just shocked that they had,
because as a veteran, like, they were traitors. They lost the war.

(07:13):
I just don't get the message. Who finds a defeated flag? I always say that.
Like, if you lost, why is your flag still, why are we doing this?
Right. And I just don't know. Exactly.
And so I was just like, oh, my God, this is, you know, real.
You know, and I'm driving down Jefferson Davis Highway to go teach a class on
African-American families and social context.
But I loved at VCU that they were culturally competent there,

(07:36):
had a great time, took a position in Jacksonville to kind of pre-position us
for my husband's retirement, and took a position as a director of diversity
and equity at a law school.
Loved it there. But they were having some managerial issues and I could kind
of see the writing on the wall.
So I went back to faculty at a local university as a visiting professor and

(07:59):
had a very racialized experience.
And so, you know, in full transparency, I'm a Christian and I believe that God
made me uncomfortable to make me move.
And so when I had that experience, I'd already done some stuff kind of as a sole proprietor.
People would ask me, hey, would you come out and do a speech for Black History
Month or would you facilitate a panel about bias, you know, in the judicial system?

(08:25):
You know, so I was like, you know what, I'll just make this a business,
you know, and that's that's what I did.
I was like, well, I'll just go ahead and establish a business.
I'm a service connected disabled veteran, you know, so I know that I can bid,
you know, well, anybody can bid on federal programs.
Contracts, but that does give me, you know, they do have other sides.
Yeah, that gives me some leverage.

(08:46):
And so that's basically what I did. So I started my company in 2019 and God
has been good and we have just grown and grown and grown.
I have 14 employees that work with me.
Everyone has a minimum of a master's. A lot of attorneys I have because they've
done discrimination cases, you whether it be based on religion,

(09:07):
gender, sex, whatever it is, race or national origin and things of that nature.
And we've been successful. We've contracted with the city of Jacksonville.
After the murder of George Floyd, we did a community focus group called Safer Together,
where we, for nine months, met with JSO, met with community members and the

(09:28):
city council to see, because statistically,
I was able to get data that showed minority communities don't trust policing,
which we already know, but I had to give them the statistical data to support that.
And it's a legitimate reason, you know, because of that lack of engagement and
what we saw with George Floyd. And we can absolutely.
Yeah. Right. You know. And so and I mean, if we the city of Tampa has been our

(09:53):
longest running client, we're on year three with them, which started as a one year contract.
And but the mayor of Tampa is so about equity and she is used to be the police
chief that every year she just is like, OK, well, let's develop another.
But it's always dealing with like equity, leading diverse teams, a refresher course.

(10:16):
We've done the city of Rochester looking at the fire department,
which if you look nationally, fire departments tend to be very much still male and European American.
You know and so we worked with them
and did some strategic planning on how to prepare
making sure their recruitment process was
equitable did a climate survey and some focus groups and developed a plan for

(10:41):
them how to create a workspace that would be inclusive and everyone would feel
that sense of belonging and know that you know i'm safe because psychological
safety is important in the workplace,
if I don't feel that I can bring my authentic self and I'm psychologically safe in this space,
I'm not as productive as I potentially could be because I'm holding that.

(11:06):
Girl, like I'm, I'm writing, you know, I like when you, when people talk,
like I'm just writing because there's so much and it's, this is so rich, you know, but.
I love the fact that you said, you know, God, because my faith is important
to me and everybody knows that. And that just is what it is.
But God had to make you uncomfortable for you to move.

(11:27):
But all of those experiences that you had are now the reason why you are where
you are today and your business is so successful.
I mean, in the middle of all that crap, you don't understand why it's going
on, that there is a greater purpose. Right.
Now you're training cities and communities and, you know, political organizations.

(11:53):
And, you know, I mean, just training them on how to show up in a way that would
be safe for the people that that that work for them. Right.
That they're supposed to serve. That is huge.
So huge. And, you know, and I've introduced you to my daughter who is at a PWI
and she is still still having so,

(12:17):
so one of the things that she says that you just said is safety,
that she doesn't feel like she can bring her authentic self to the space, not be judged,
not be criticized or not or making it feel being made to feel like it's like
it's doesn't matter. Like, why are you why are you behaving like this?

(12:39):
You're doing too much as a black woman. Now you got this angry black women syndrome.
And so I love the work that you do, because one, you are so authentic.
You show up and you lay the hammer down, which is truth.
We're not lying here. We're not like waving a flag for no reason. It's definite truth.

(13:00):
But you have turned it into something that is a business that is successful.
Very, very successful. So besides using those experiences, in addition to using
those experiences that you've been through, what else keeps you going, Tammy?
Like what keeps you pushing forward? Even when you run,

(13:21):
I'm sure you hear the crazy stuff out of people's mouths and you still go in
and persevere and are committed to educating and helping to change that environment.
So what keeps you going there? Social justice.
So my mom is a retired social worker for battered women.
And I just remember being at rallies, you know, and protesting,

(13:44):
you know, about women's rights and things.
And my mom teaching us, you know, if if the police grab you, baby, just go now.
You know, I mean, you know, just I mean, seriously, I would thank my son when
we were in Virginia because we were in the Capitol and they weren't expanding
Medicaid. Medicaid and a felony, larceny was a felony if it was over $200.

(14:05):
It was some antiquated bill. And it's like, you steal somebody's cell phone, then you become a felon.
You know, so we would see, you know, disproportionate people of color experiencing these things.
And so it's about social justice. And I want equity for all.
Like, I want everyone to know that they're in a safe space, that they can be
their authentic selves, that they can share.
And I think being biracial, you know

(14:28):
has has its advantages there because
people will say well I've never experienced white
privilege and I said well that's funny because I did I grew up cloaked in
it for 17 years and let me show you how it shows up you
know you know and just because I've had people say well I grew up low income
so I didn't have white privilege and I'm like socioeconomic status has nothing

(14:48):
to do with it so I'm able to explain it from a point of lived experience you
know because often I find I find that, like my husband, who is African-American,
I find that they'll dismiss something that he'll say.
And I'm like, oh, no, I grew up, you know, and predominantly we were one of
two families of color in my entire community.

(15:09):
So, you know, Milwaukee is highly segregated and I'm a TEDx speaker two times,
you know, and I talked about that and I grew up on the white side of town,
the right side of town, you know what I'm saying?
So it's just like, so while you may be able to tell other people who don't have
these lived experiences this, you know, as I look at my blonde hair,
blue eyed mother who's 82,
you know, and still invoking her privilege when need be for her brown children,

(15:35):
you know, I know it to be real. And that's what keeps me going.
And I know that, you know, people talk about being Christians and this and that,
but then their actions don't match that.
Oh, I mean, I see it. It's just like God didn't tell you to be hateful.
Allah didn't tell you to be hateful.
You know, whoever you believe in did not tell you to treat people this way.

(15:58):
But there's this ideal of stratification and people need to feel superior to
someone. And that's what I see taking place in America.
And I see people cut their nose off to spite their face if they think that people
of color are going to have an advantage.
And the reality is that it's a mouth up in legal studies called inference for

(16:20):
convergence, which basically states that there has never been a law in America
that has only benefited people of color.
And so let's talk about that just for one moment.
So when we say that, right, and we see the Supreme Court just recently struck
down affirmative action,
I'm going to tell you in the workplace, statistically, the primary benefactors

(16:43):
of affirmative action have been European American women. It's not been women who look like this.
And I mean, the statistical data supports that. And so, again,
there's never been a law that has been put in place that has just benefited us.
If there's a law put in place to help us, overall, it helps everyone.
It's not just us. And that's what people need to understand.

(17:05):
So when they're voting to do away with whatever benefits or whatever reality
is, is there are more European-Americans living in poverty than there are people of color.
But we're a small percentage that were disproportionately impacted by poverty.
And that's all lives matter BS that we hear. Right. So it's like everybody benefits.

(17:28):
All lives matter. So we shouldn't focus the light on the fact that we have an
issue by saying black lives matter.
I mean, if you have to say that, we've got a problem here, but they will people
will cover it up and go, no, no, all lives matter. So that is some of the foolishness here.
And I want to say it's just ignorance. And so you come and you bring the light.

(17:53):
Yeah, I mean, and I explain to them, like when people say to me, well, our lives matter.
Well, if that's the case, then tell me why Native American women and African-American
women are three times more likely to die during childbirth than anyone else.
If all lives matter, why are African-American youth, the infant mortality rate
for African-American children in America comparable to third world nations?

(18:16):
If all lives matter, you know, I mean, it's just like, why are over 2 million,
we're 5% of the world's population, America is, but we incarcerate 25%.
Why are one in three African-American men going to be under the control of the
criminal justice system at some point in their life?
It's easy to say, oh, well, because they're criminals and it's criminality.

(18:39):
No, it's over policing in particular neighborhoods and that high level of segregation,
that lack of generational wealth, which has strategically been done through
housing covenants and red lining.
So I go in and I explain that, you know, as a veteran, if I come back from World
War II, which I'm not that old, but if I come back for two, right,

(19:04):
and law and segregated troops,
I wouldn't have been able to use my benefits.
So the U.S. government, the housing authority, we subsidize suburbanization
for European Americans, but our African American and Jewish.
As well as Hispanic veterans could not utilize that benefit because housing

(19:24):
covenants specifically specifically said, you cannot sell to them.
I mean, we still see realtors steering, you know, where they steer people who
look like us to particular neighborhoods.
And I will have to give a shout out to our realtor who sold us our home.
We've been here eight years. My European American male did not have that.
I mean, he didn't, you know, he just, I guess, looked at me and was like,

(19:48):
okay, well, what's your frame?
You know, what's your price point? I told him.
He didn't even asked my letter that showed that I was already pre-approved.
I mean, he did everything correct.
You know, and it's just like, and then I was like, oh, you know,
a couple of tricks later, I was like, oh, here goes the letter.
But I mean, it was just like he was culturally competent and you could tell,

(20:12):
you know, so it's just like people don't know the true history of the policies
that have negatively impacted particular communities.
Communities you know i mean our first racialized immigration
act was the chinese exclusion area so
we asked them to come over and help with westward expansion with
the railroads and then anytime the economy gets

(20:34):
tight then we want to ship whatever latest immigrant
pain we want to ship them back you know
and so that was the and so i explained you know all that and recognizing like
one indigenous land columbus didn't discover anything you know you can't discover
a space that was already occupied by our Indigenous brothers and sisters who

(20:55):
genocide was committed against and,
you know, on the Trail of Tears and,
you know, Jacksonville were named after.
Andrew Jackson, who established the Trail of Tears, you know,
and just all those things.
They just I'm just very passionate about it because I want people I think if
people understand it, they have a better grasp of reality.

(21:18):
Because how many times have you been told, well, why can't those people pull
themselves up by their boots? I was getting ready to ask you that. Like how? How?
We you are all in my head.
I was just that I wrote down that
like opportunities you know they always say like well
you have so many opportunities now I mean let's face

(21:39):
it you are a doctor you have a PhD you have done better than that there it's
a free country now so what are you talking about you got college you can go
to you got you know why can't you you put this one pulled themselves up by their bootstraps in this one.
So that's an excuse Black people are using or minorities are using to say the

(22:03):
system, the system, the system.
So how do you, because I know it shows up in the spaces you're in through the
education piece, how do you dismantle that?
So I will share with them all the government policies that have impeded people
of color to include women, you know, and being able to do you just that?
You know, so like I say, the Chinese Exclusionary Act, we've had Japanese internment

(22:26):
camps, we had housing covenant and redlining.
These went on into the late 60s. So let's talk about generational wealth.
You know, I mean, how could we accumulate it if our ancestors weren't able to obtain it?
You know, and so like I look at cities, if you look at most cities, St.
Louis, Jacksonville, Richmond and Milwaukee, where I come from,

(22:48):
there were viable Incredible minority communities that had their own banks,
they had their own doctors, they had their own grocery stores, all this.
And through urban renewal grants that the federal government gave out to help
subsidize European Americans with their move to suburbia.
They decimated. They just went right through minority communities and put the

(23:09):
freeway right through them intentionally.
You know, and he just decimated this entire community is now disconnected,
you know, and then when those who were in the middle class were able to, they moved out.
And so William Julius Wilson, who is professor of sociology and highly regarded

(23:29):
in sociology at Harvard and everywhere,
he talks about, you know, basically we've left the people who don't know necessarily
how to think for themselves, those of us who've been able to move back have
done so because of better living conditions.
And we've left the truly disadvantaged in a lot of the urban areas where they
don't have the examples that they did before.

(23:52):
Like my parents married, my mom married my dad in 62.
It was still illegal, but they married in Wisconsin.
When they married, my mother had to move from her German Jewish enclave community
into the African-American community.
She was the only non-African-American in the community.
And she said no one treated her any differently. She had no issues,

(24:14):
you know, and but in that same space,
she said, you know, next door was a doctor on the other side was a janitor,
you know, so you had these kids going to school with with, you know,
other kids whose parents were doctors, lawyers, pharmacists, doctors.
So they had loads of they had these examples that they could emulate.

(24:34):
And now, like what Professor Wilson says, is that we don't necessarily see that
often in the lower income communities.
Because those of us who could afford to move out have done so.
And so to me, like I wrote a paper and I need to work on getting it published
about the church, because the most segregated time in America is 10 o'clock on a Sunday.

(24:55):
But if you look at the impact of the African-American church and the Hispanic
church, you'll find that we still go back to those communities to go to church.
And so what a perfect time for us to mentor and share our knowledge with the
people in those those communities who have not been able to make it.
So tell me, cause you know, oh gosh, man, listen, man, we probably need a part two.

(25:19):
This is, this is, so I, I mean, I wrote down so many things. So.
You know, when you talked about a lot, but the whole integration.
So it seems like, you know, I've heard from black men in particular,
you know, that that that tore up the black family.
And now we have moved out of the communities. And so I live in a community that is I'm the minority.

(25:46):
Always, you know, always, like you mentioned earlier, everywhere I go, I'm the minority.
Minority it's not that I intentionally picked those
spaces it's just I'm not in the area like
I'm not in the urban areas that I lived in
or grew up in and you know I because of some of the education disparities that
I've seen and I've experienced in the area and so I wanted to provide that that

(26:09):
opportunity for my children hence
why my daughter's right at a PWI not saying I told her to to go there.
I want HBCU, I believe in the community, but I do feel like sometimes I'm straddling,
like, you know, I should be living there.
And so we've been integrated as well.

(26:29):
Like, how do you, how do you reconcile that? Do you reconcile that?
Is there a way to do that? Cause I'm honest, I'll be honest.
Like I've been very vocal where I am. I've had some things happen where I live.
That's like, I want to go to the North side. This is ridiculous.
I want more with diversity but do i
yeah but i

(26:49):
but i think it dr murdoch it goes to exactly what you said so i mean as a sociologist
even when we move we we have an adult young adult son now every time my husband
moved because he was already i'm navy every time we moved every two and a half
years one of the first things i did was i looked at the communities i looked at the school district,
Because I'm raising, you know, someone. Exactly.

(27:13):
And so I need him to be in an A-plus school.
Well, when I look at that, those A-plus schools don't tend to be necessarily
in our neighborhoods unless our neighborhoods have been gentrified.
You know, and that's a whole nother issue. And I can always tell what a neighborhood's
been gentrified because then I see police walking instead of only coming in
when something is taking place.

(27:34):
You know, and then Starbucks or all these other, you know, places.
The police live there. Like, yeah.
Yeah, exactly. And so it's kind of like, so how do we manage that?
You know, in the community I live in, I'm very thankful.
We are a small subdivision and we have everybody, you know, and I love it.

(27:56):
And everybody looks out for everyone.
But again, we're probably 40 houses, you know, and so we do.
Do so like my my neighbors so my we're
german jews you know and so my neighbors though
are jewish and they were concerned because we're one
of the neighborhoods that they come and do the lights you know when
they bring the the bands through and all that and come through and they were

(28:18):
concerned about putting up the menorah because they put a big one up and they
say i think their sign says like santa's hanukkah or something and they were
concerned and we were all like oh no you need not not be concerned because they
will not make it out of this subdivision.
We'll take care because we're not having that here.

(28:40):
But it's exactly what you said. But that's like, I know a Title I school.
And so a Title I school means that over, you know, a certain percentage of students
are reduced to free lunch.
That in a Title I school, it typically is lower socioeconomic status,
which sadly still continues to be black and brown bodies.
In Title I schools, you have more teachers that are there on provisional certification,

(29:03):
so they didn't go to college to be an educator.
They've changed careers, which is fine, but they're on provisional certification,
which means that they don't necessarily know the pedagogy to teach it.
You know, so there are all these other little controls. You know,
our governor recently denied accepting the federal dollars for summer food programs.

(29:26):
Some of our children will not eat a hot meal.
And I mean, just the audacity because you haven't, you deny others.
But again, that to me goes to the stratification.
I mean, our governor is of Italian descent.
My mother grew up in the era where Italian, Polish, and Irish were perceived as less than.

(29:47):
So it amazes her, a lot of the things that he's done, because she's like, he's Italian.
Like, I mean, that shouldn't even be, right?
And the largest mass lynching, we know lynching impacted African-Americans more than anybody, right?
Disproportionately. But the largest mass lynching was of 11 Sicilians in New Orleans.

(30:09):
You know, and people don't even know that, but they were the newest immigrants
at that time. The sheriff had been killed and they took him to jail.
It's the standard thing.
And then the lynch mob comes, takes them out of jail, lynches them all,
riddles their body with bullets.
Yeah, but that's the largest mass lynching in America was of Italian Sicilians.

(30:31):
You know, so just the mere fact that people don't know the history.
You know, like the Irish were discriminated against, the Polish were discriminated against.
And it's to me, you know, I talk about this in my TED talk, is they've been
absorbed into this construct of whiteness and they got completely forgotten.
You know, that at one point their ancestors were treated as less than and were

(30:54):
discriminated against.
And now they're invoking that upon other people. Crazy. I think it was last Sabbath.
I was I'd like I'm a YouTube junkie and I was watching Farrakhan on YouTube.
He was on the Phil Donahue show. You know, I'm dating myself.
And so I never failed her and I never failed her. Yes.

(31:18):
But the questions from the white audience or the comments from the white audience
to him when he was having similar conversations like you just breaking down
the history of the country and how they, too,
were impacted by some of these things was it was just it was bewildering. It was fascinating.

(31:39):
It was like, gosh, you guys are just clueless about our history.
And then this idea that now we need to ignore it like we're past it.
It was 400 years ago. Why do you keep complaining and complaining about what we've done to you?
And the whole problem is it's still occurring.
It's systemic. It's in the fabric of the way the country is run,

(32:03):
the way the laws are established and the way it shows up in corporate America.
And I love the fact that you now go in and say, no, no, no, we're going to we're
going to educate you on this.
And so when you do that, do you give them like practical strategies?
OK, so how do you become culturally competent and what do you need to do to

(32:25):
be that person to, you know, to.
Be more sensitive or just be more aware. How do you do that for them?
So what I do with that is I'll come in and we'll talk about implicit bias because
we see it a lot in the workplace.
People are comfortable with people who look like them. You know,
so if you're sitting on a hiring panel,
right, and you get these applicants and, you know, and you see someone that

(32:49):
you can kind of relate to based on, you know, the color of their skin or the
school they went to or whatever.
It's going to play more favorable for that person.
You know, so I go in and I teach them about implicit bias and speak with them about,
you know, the top 10 that we see in the workplace and how that really impacts
their bottom line and productivity as well as I make it in financial terms for

(33:14):
them because it's that bottom line that that's important, right?
So when you lack innovation and you lack representation, you're going to lack
innovation and it's It's going to cost you the bottom line.
So recently, and I don't know if you saw this, here in Jacksonville and Mandarin
in my community, Target had, you saw that?

(33:34):
They had some books. And my good friend Wendy was the one who was on television.
They had some books. Oh, that was her? Oh, wow.
That's my girlfriend Wendy. And they had some books. And she was buying them
for her church library. Okay? Church library.
And when she went to go check it out, it said, do not sell, do not sell.
Well, you know why? line because the people that, and Target has been good about

(33:57):
diversification, like with our hair products and all this stuff.
But obviously the publisher that they
went with to publish these books had misidentified a lot of our history.
Right. And the thing is, like, I mean, you're supposed to make a thing about,
you know, Carter Woodson, but you put W.E.B.

(34:17):
Du Bois as the pitcher. You know, things like that shows you how much we need to revamp the system.
But it also shows you that publishing company may have diversity,
but they surely have no inclusion because no one at that table,
if they look like we did or knew the accurate history, would have let you even put that publication.

(34:37):
And that impacts your bottom line. So that company, Brandon Publishers,
I'm well aware of who they are, have no desire to ever buy products from them
because you can't even take the time to do your homework.
And make sure you're not a picture of line up. We can't even get the pictures.
I mean, you could Google this. Like what is going down?

(34:59):
Exactly. Exactly. But that's that misidentification, which moves us into those
microaggressions. Right.
So how many times have you been misidentified? I know I did it often.
I have if I have my hair down, I will get people who will come and touch my hair.
You I'm sure you've had that, too. And it's like, why? I don't even know. No.

(35:21):
Number two, why would you think that you could grab a handful of my curls?
You know what I'm saying? Or I get, you know, misidentified with someone else
and we look nothing alike.
You know, and I'm just like, because we are closely aligned in skin color.
It's like, yeah, oh, Tammy.
I mean, April. I mean, like, no.

(35:43):
Yeah, yeah, exactly. And I mean, it's just amazing. And I've seen it happen
with my husband and another guy in a group we belong to.
They're not nearly the same color. They don't have the same body type, nothing.
And they'll ask him, the other guy, well, where's your wife been?
And he's like, I'm not letting him. You know what I'm saying?

(36:04):
My wife isn't a part of this group.
And it's just like, oh, people, I mean, we do better.
I may not remember names, but I remember faces. And I don't make those mistakes,
but that's part of microaggressions that misidentify.
And it's like, how much of that can I take, you know, before I exploded?

(36:25):
Then I'm the angry black one.
When I finally get fed up and say, listen, you know, this has got to stop.
You know, so I just think it's so much intersectionality and people just fail
to realize and that pulling yourself up by your bootstraps, that's a great ideal.
But you really need to know the policies. Right. And that's just like with the

(36:48):
TANF or they call it America. What was it?
AFDC. Right. Aid to Family with Dependent Children.
They had they had the man of the house. You couldn't have a man in mass rights and get help.
Exactly. Reality is African-American men still make less than their European-American
male counterparts who are doing the same job.

(37:10):
So oftentimes that did not help our families.
The migration of us up north did not necessarily help either because oftentimes
we would leave some down south, you know, and then come up here, maybe start a new line.
You know, so there are just a variety of variables, but a lot of it.
So the way I do it is policy.
I want to show you the federal policies, because this is not just why I don't

(37:35):
like you and that's why I didn't hire you.
Let me show you the federal policies that have placed us in these positions
and basically, you know, have a strong held in certain positions where we're
just not able to make it or they'll allow a certain amount.
Max right you know so we'd have some type of
representation you think about it you have a phd

(37:56):
like that's i think less than five percent of the population in
the world but we're still fighting for that seat
at the table yeah yeah and and
if you get you know if you express yourself then
you're angry you know where if my
mother expresses herself and i've seen her do and it took
me some time to realize I can't do what she does because

(38:18):
how she's perceived versus how I'm perceived is completely
you know and that is so sad because
I tell my daughter that like when she's going through her thing and
she's expressing herself you know they're saying like well how can we support
you and how can we you know and it's like I don't know how you can support me
but I can tell you that what you're doing is not and this is and I tell her

(38:43):
to say well this is how this is is it making me feel?
And this is how I am perceiving this from my perspective.
Now, you know, you do with that with you will, but those are my feelings and
these are my perceptions.
But it is really hard for people of other ethnicities, white,
European Americans, to understand how what they do impacts us.

(39:05):
And then when we point it out, it's, oh, why are you so angry about it?
I mean, you're in the United States.
Tammy, there are times, just even in my space, I have to remember like, hold up, I am Dr.
Murdoch. Like, I have to say that to my kids, like, what is wrong with you?
Why are you out in these streets letting this affect you this way?
You did everything they told you to do, but because systemically...

(39:30):
We are just, I don't know, taught to be like, even in my field,
I was told when I first entered this industry that I should not do any business
with anybody in my community because I, if I did, I would be broke.
There was no money in the black community. Oh yeah, yeah.
Immediately coach, like, you know, you can do that and do good work and help

(39:51):
if you want to, but that's, you won't be able to eat doing that.
And I'm like, whoa. Whoa.
And so that's why so many of us don't show up in this space,
because it's only supposed to be a wealthy person's space.
And to be able to invest, you've got to be white.
It's just those things are so pervasive.

(40:12):
And so that's why the work that you do, like you need to be going into the Raymond
Changes and the Edward Joneses.
I don't know if you've heard about Edward Jones, but they had a big lawsuit,
a class action lawsuit of black financial advisors that sued them based on the
fact that there were so many pervasive discriminatory practices there.

(40:34):
And they walked away with a bunch of money.
But that was the only way that they can impact.
You need to be going in there talking to not need to be. But that would be a
great space to go into to say, hey.
You guys need to become more culturally competent. You guys need to be clear
or need to just really show up properly for the folks that work here if you

(40:56):
want the money at the end of the day.
Right. So you said you make it economic.
A couple of weeks ago, I interviewed a woman in the LGBTQ space and she said,
and I had clients that said, well, this attorney, these attorneys don't want
to work with us because we identify this way. Okay.
And because of that, you know, the young lady was saying there's 3.8,

(41:19):
I think it's trillion dollars that's on the in the LGBTQ plus community that
nobody wants to tap into.
So if nothing else, make it economic, which is what you're doing. Like, yeah.
And that's what I do. And when you said that, though, April, it is so true.
Like you said, sometimes you have to remind yourself you're Dr. Murdoch.
All that that's imposter syndrome and we've all

(41:41):
dealt with it because we're in spaces i've dealt
with it too where you begin to question like am
i qualified to be here because you just get beat down so often in question so
often you know that you're just like maybe i should you know you it's like if
you tell someone something enough they begin to believe it yeah and we internalize it And it's like,

(42:05):
no, like you said, no, let me remind myself, I'm Dr. Hodel, I'm Dr.
Murdoch. You know, this is, so this is, I've earned this. This was not given to me.
So this is how we're going to do things. And I have that happen too.
I've had people who do not know me, but know I'm a PhD and will say,
well, hey, Tammy. And I'm like, well, do we know each other?

(42:25):
You know, because if not, and I, it was funny, not funny, it was actually sad.
At one of the universities I was at, I had a graduate assistant.
And because in my intro to sociology, I'd have 150 students and then I'd have
other classes, I would always get a graduate assistant.
And she never met with me and when she
finally did she came and she talked with me and she's

(42:46):
talking to me about dr cats dr cats is a woman as
well but she's called on me 10 and you're
working she's working on her masters and i'm like so i'm trying to figure out
why you think it's okay to call her dr cats and you think they didn't meet 10
and 10 right because last time i checked we both have the same credentials and
we're both female the only thing different is is that i I have a brown hood in my skin,

(43:10):
never saw that student again and ended up with two European American males.
And I kept them the entire time we were in grad school because it was like they got him.
And when I would get up in the intro class and we would have the conversation
about race and ethnicity, it was sad.
But the reality is, is one of my graduate students, graduate assistants,

(43:32):
mine working on a master's and I'm a PhD, would basically stand up and validate.
Of it, what I had just said, because they need to hear it.
Some people from people who look like, you know, so I'm strategic when I hire
as well, because I'm all things diverse.
I have LGBTQI, transgender, Jewish, European, American, Hispanic.

(43:55):
I don't, I want to know that you can do the job.
That's what I want. And I want you to bring your personal experiences to,
you know, the training. So I develop all the training, you know,
and I create the facilitator guide, but I tell them best is something for you to go off of.
You add your experiences, you know, and your stories, because that's what makes an impactful.

(44:17):
And I believe that that's how we make that impact is you have to make a connection, you know?
And it's just like, though, we see when you see families that have someone in
the family that has come out as LGBTQI,
then the family's ideology tends to change because they love that their sister

(44:37):
or their daughter or their granddaughter. So it goes out the window.
When my mother married my dad, of course, she was disowned. And when we came,
my grandmother could care less about what my grandfather said.
She would tell him she was shopping. She'd be right at the house.
You know you don't have to say uh-huh uh-huh right you know those are her babies exactly.

(44:57):
Playing in our hair talking to us and you
know and I remember later in life taking her to gay first
show at my age and wanting to get some lipstick and
she's in a wheelchair and I'm around and I asked and
the lady behind the counter was culturally competent and I
said well do you have anything that would complement my complexion and
she said no we don't and it's a a shame and it should not be

(45:19):
that and i mean she knew you know and my grandmother was just like well i don't
understand i mean she got all you know in her feelings like well they should
have stuff you know and this is my granddad i was like that didn't become important
now it's something that they recognized that was never you know a part of who
they are now she loves you you.
And I think that sometimes is what has to happen, sadly, is that we have to

(45:43):
see that where people are now, you know, start, you know, mixing and intermingling races.
And now the Black struggle or the Latino struggle becomes something that's very
important to them because of their loved ones and how it impacts them.
But I will tell you, though, the number one, and it's so funny,

(46:04):
right, because like in the media and all this, people always think,
oh, the number one interracial group is an African-American man and a European-American woman.
Statistically, that's not true. It is a European-American male with an Asian
woman. And to me, I believe that has certain implications with the ideology
that she will be submissive, which she did.

(46:25):
That is that is a good and bad.
Exactly. That is a stereotype that needs to be dismissed.
But I do often think that that's the ideology behind it. Well, she'll be much more.
And it's like, no, that's an overgeneralized statement. And it's not true.
But that's the number one. Yeah, interracial couple that is European-American male and a Asian woman.

(46:49):
Wow. I did not know that.
That's what it comes from education. Like you just spend your time getting the
knowledge and the education and see how it impacts our society and helps. It really does.
Yeah. I mean, and the thing is, though, like my TED talk, if anyone wants to
look it up, it's called The Social Implications of Race. And I put that in the

(47:13):
show notes, a link to that TED talk.
So when I publish it, people will see that and they can go right there.
So yeah, can you say that again? What is it? The social implications of race.
Okay. Yeah. And I do, and I track it, the census all the way back.
And so I tell the story, right?

(47:34):
So my parents married at 62 and 62, my dad was considered a necrop.
By the census, the U.S. federal government, again, policy, showing them federal policy.
Then in the 70s, because of the Black Power Movement, the census changed and he became black.
And then in the 80s, he became African-American.
Nothing about my dad's beautiful. He was dark, black, dark complexion change.

(47:59):
But the way the government counted and categorized him changed.
And that's just like for people like me, they didn't include us on the census.
Well, they had us back in the day as mulatto. And we know that was products of rape.
You know, that's a whole other TED talk, those products of rape,
right? Like Sally Hemings and all these others.

(48:20):
But they had us down as mulattoes. But they didn't add multi-ethnic or biracial
until to, I think it was 2010.
2010 is the first time. So it's funny, people, I would tell my students all the time.
Yeah, I would tell my students all the time. And I would get the census every
10 years. It depended how I felt that day. Did I feel like my European-American mother?

(48:42):
Or did I feel like my African-American father?
So I know that data isn't correct because it depended how I felt that day. It's all relative.
You know, I mean, exactly. Like, did I have faith?
Or did I feel... You want the Black power? Or I want to walk in my privilege. You know? Exactly.
What? Oh, girl, this is awesome.

(49:06):
But you are awesome. And to be able to take what you've learned,
what you've experienced, what you've studied and create such a successful business.
I think that is powerful to me because you could be working in some corporate
structure, right, trying to roll out the whole DEI thing only for you to be

(49:26):
cut and let go like they started doing recently.
But you have taken your passion, you have taken what you've learned,
what you've experienced, and you've created a very good in a short amount of
time, which lets you know how important this work is. This lets you know how important.
Folks need to hear what you are saying and what you do. So tell us what's next on the horizon.

(49:52):
Like, do you have any things people should come to? How can if an organization,
a big or small, want you and your team to come in and provide the education
and the resources to get them culturally competent?
What would they need to do and what does that look like? So they just need to
go to either. Either they can email me at Tammy at All Things Diverse and I'm T-A-M-M-Y.

(50:16):
Or they can go to All Things Diverse and look at our website and there's a contact
form and it lists all the services we have. And you can look at our consultants.
You can look at some of our past clients and just reach out and let us know what you need.
Do you need a strategic diversity plan to help you increase diversity within
your higher ranking fields? Do you want a climate survey to see how your employees

(50:41):
feel about the workplace at that point?
You know, do you want us to come in and do a climate survey and then some focus
groups and develop a plan for you to get everyone on board and make it a place
of inclusivity where they can bring their authentic selves?
Do you need help understanding pronouns in the LGBTQI community?

(51:02):
Do you need assistance creating culturally competent panels for the interviews?
Do you need to know about what type of biases continue to impact your hiring committees?
Things of that nature. Sure. And I will tell you, you know, if you don't address
it, it's going to come back financially and impact you. Think about H&M a couple of years ago.

(51:25):
Do you remember? Remember that shirt? And they had an African in a shirt that
they wildest monkey in the junk.
OK, I know you had no one.
Who was culturally competent on that view panel.
Exactly. But that's just like with the publisher for Target.
And Target, like I said, has done a good job. So it was amazing.

(51:47):
Yeah, it was amazing that they didn't vet this company and see what they did
before they sent that out.
You know, it's got fired. I know that. Oh, yeah.
You know, but it's just like, but another thing, how about you hire some diverse suppliers?
Like, why didn't you reach out? You know, I write course content for Vector
Solutions and Safe Colleges that's used at hundreds of colleges and employment,

(52:11):
you know, different corporations and stuff where you require that annual training.
And I want to say, you know, the one and done is not enough,
you know, so, OK, you know, and that's what happens.
I find and I don't work with those people. If you just want someone to come
in so you can check the box and say, did you do did that training?
Please don't reach out to me.
You know, I'm saying because I'm not that person. And another issue that I'm

(52:34):
seeing in my field is we've seen people since George Floyd, now all of a sudden,
because they have the right complexion, they're a DEI person,
but they don't have the knowledge.
And it's like, so you're going in there with anecdotal stuff,
and you're not actually giving them the tools that they need to succeed.
And then they say, well, see, we tried and it didn't work. Well,
you didn't have a subject matter expert. You know, like, I mean,

(52:56):
I could testify in court cases about discrimination.
I write letters for attorneys, you know, when it comes to getting visas for
people who are, you know, in special fields such as this.
And it's like, you have to vet the people you bring in.
You know, you don't just bring in somebody because that's somebody's friend.
That doesn't mean they have the skill set.
And how about you open up to people of color coming in and doing this training?

(53:21):
Because I will tell you who's got my field on lock. European American. Really?
Yes. Wait a minute. Stop. Stop. Wait. And diversity, equity. Yes.
You mean to tell me they're serving as DEI experts in organizations to drive
the initiative of diversity?
Because they're women. So they're a minority. But unlike unlike you and I who

(53:44):
experience intersectionality, not only are we women, but we're women of color.
See, they don't experience that.
And so someone said to me once and I get this. I mean, mind you,
my mother is European-American.
It's I struggle with this as
well as how can you be a minority when you're the mother of the majority?
You know what I'm saying? It's like, so how can that be?

(54:05):
You know that that you're the subject matter expert
and you're not experiencing the things i'm experiencing i
know you know god has blessed me financially we're
good but ask me how many times i've been followed in
the store but ask me statistically who's more prone to
shoplift middle class middle-aged european american
women you know but but those aren't the ones

(54:26):
being followed in the store i'm being followed or my son or my husband my husband's
retired army me lieutenant colonel i have a phd you know i'm saying so why are
you following all that does is make me leave and not swim out exactly and to
tell all my friends lord don't and why don't go there because they don't want money.

(54:47):
Yeah, I don't want to give my money to some someone or any entity that doesn't
respect me enough as an individual, period.
And I don't feel like I'm being marginalized and microaggressed.
And then, you know, you've heard about these designers that say,
like, well, we didn't design this for this group.
But somehow, some way, this group has made you very, very, very,

(55:11):
very, very successful. That's why we're creating generational wealth for your grandkids.
But you don't want our dollar.
So I've seen a lot of that. And that's why I am I'm very sensitive,
you know, in that regard, too, is like, where is my money going?
Because, you know, one of the things I had to reconcile with,

(55:32):
too, especially when this woman posted what she posted.
And then I made this long response was like, I am not anti-white. Right. I am not.
I'm not discriminatory. I'm just pro-Black. Like, you know, like Issa Rae said,
like, I'm rooting for everything and everybody Black. I want us all to win.
Now, you know, I have white friends and all of that and I want them to win,

(55:56):
too. But I'm a Black woman and I'm pro-Black.
Yeah. And just and just because we're pro-Black, like you said,
does not mean that we're anti-white.
Right. You know, I mean, it doesn't mean that it's just recognizing the continued
subjugation of this particular population that we actually have happened to be a part of.

(56:16):
And so, of course, I want us all to win.
But I recognize the additional hurdles and policies and practices that have
been put in place to stop us at a certain point.
So like women business owners, you know, women talk about, you know,
hitting the glass ceiling. Well, Asian women call it a bamboo seal.
African-American women, we call it the concrete seal.

(56:38):
It's like, you know, they'll let one in.
You know, but that's going to be it. And then you become tokenized.
Yeah. And that's a problem. I'm not going to be here just for you to talk to
when you want to talk about something that deals with my community.
I have more to contribute than just that. That's a big part of who I am because

(56:58):
I've chosen that lifestyle.
But it's not all that I have to contribute. So I would like to say,
though, I do have a book that came out in January with some colleagues.
And it's called How to Engage in Difficult Dialogue Surrounding Identity, Race and Politics.
And it is great. And it's more like a workbook. And we talk about,

(57:22):
you know, anti-Semitism.
We talk about Black Lives Matter.
We talk about white supremacy in academia. We talk about guns.
You know, all these a variety. You got to give me the link to that book.
We got to make sure we put that in there because we this is a place of education.
We want people to be engaged if they really want to learn and grow.

(57:43):
You listen to this podcast is about growing education and moving the needle
forward. So please send me the link to that.
I will. Yeah. And it's a practical guide. And what I love is we have exercises at the end.
And that's what I do a lot of when I present to our exercises,
you know, to get people to, you know, culturally describe yourself,
your experiences and recognize that we're all unique. meet.

(58:05):
You know, you and I look alike, you know, but we have very different lived experiences.
You know, we're not a monolithic group. And too often that's what happens,
you know, with the over-criminalization or with us, the over-sexualizing of our bodies.
And it's just like, we are not all the same, but you want to be judged as an

(58:26):
individual, but you want to judge others as a group.
You can't have it both ways. So I will definitely send you, yeah,
I wrote it with some of my colleagues and it does have some great exercises at the end.
Jacksonville University bought many of the books, had me come out and speak,
but see, they're on board.
And I've spoken at JU several times. They're never a one and done.

(58:49):
Edward Waters, same thing. They're never a one and done. They're always like, can you come back?
I could tell you what companies are always like, hey, can you do something for us this year?
The global American American Red Cross in D.C. that have been my client for years.
You know, so it's just like they truly want to be change agents.
They're in it to win it. They're not just to check a box. Yeah.

(59:12):
Yeah. And that's the most important thing. And I love what you said.
You said, you know, like if you're just here to check a box and you just want
to show face that this is the work that you do, then I'm not I'm not the person to work with you.
And that is so key because we've seen, you know, just on I've seen on social media, LinkedIn,
you know, how the companies now are starting to dismantle those DEI positions

(59:35):
that were once highly, highly advertised positions that paid well.
And now they're laying people off from major Fortune 500 companies.
And you wonder, well, we know now that it was just to check them.
And my last thing in closing, because I know we have to go, is I want people

(59:56):
to understand within the African diaspora, you know, there are issues within
our own community. Oh, absolutely.
Everyone, though.
In the Hispanic diaspora, same thing.
But I understand. Yeah, but in the African-American diaspora,
some of the things that I've seen, like when you talk about diversity officers,

(01:00:17):
is they will recruit someone who's from the continent or the islands or something
who doesn't have all the lived experience and the baggage that we have from
growing up here to be in that position because they have the right complexion,
but they don't have those lived experiences.
Experiences and so the way they're going to do things may be differently than

(01:00:38):
the way I'm going to do things because I have the historical as well as lived
experience growing up in America and so that's problematic.
I used to when I was in higher ed belong to the National Association for Diversity Officers in Higher Ed,
NOCATI and they talked about that how they were seeing people put in these positions
just because they had the right complexion or they were female but they this

(01:01:01):
This was really not their zone, but they just looked the part.
You know, last story. I remember we were in San Diego and there was a university there.
One of the predominantly European-American fraternities decided they were going
to host a Compton cooking.
So they put these flyers up and they told people what to wear,
these fat gold chains and the girls to dress in their hoochie mama gear, all this other stuff.

(01:01:26):
So the NAACP, we all marched up there.
We get into the building. their head diversity officer is a European American
male and he tells us that he understands because he's in the LGBTQI community ah you do not.
Okay when you walk in a room you are a European American male I do not know
that you belong to that community unless you tell me but when you and I walk

(01:01:49):
in the room when you this is it amen amen.
And we are. That's it. So so I don't get to, you know, oh, just let me just
announce that I'm this when I can hide behind my color.
Right. And then my sexuality comes out. It is what it is when you look at me. Wow.
And so we see that a lot, too.

(01:02:09):
So, yeah, just I just think this is an important topic and it's not going anywhere
while they try to dial it back.
It'll be another incident because it's not being addressed correctly.
And like you said, it's in the structure of America.
You know, I mean, remember the three-fifths rule. We have to remember how this
country was established.
The Africans that were taken, you know, like that's another one with the black-on-black

(01:02:33):
crime where Africans sold other Africans into slavery.
That's tribalism. These were people from other tribes they had conquered,
just like the Greeks had done, the Italians had done, the Romans had done.
And then you take the men and you enslave them and you take the women and put
them as part of your concubine.
And so, you know, I'm used to all the regular arguments. I hear,

(01:02:53):
well, Africans sold other Africans. Yeah, but they weren't their tribal members.
Like, again, we're not a monolithic group, you know. So people need to understand
that it's just like there are differences.
You know, not all of us. I remember being in my doctoral program and someone
asked me, we're talking about urban renewal grants and all this.
What was it like growing up in the projects?

(01:03:15):
Why did you think? I say, I don't know. I didn't grow up in that space.
You know what I'm saying? But why would you think that?
You know, but but again, thinking just just having such a limited view on on
us. It's just like it's amazing because we come in every socioeconomic status
group, educational level, everything, just like everyone else.

(01:03:37):
This was rich. This was so rich. I know your time is so valuable.
And I thank you for giving it to us today. I hope the folks out here learned
today. Y'all learned some things today with a T.
Y'all learned some things in here today. And if you haven't and you want to
learn some more, I'm going to put the links to her TED Talk,

(01:03:58):
to her book, to her website.
I'll put her email. Listen, reach out to her and get edumacated.
Stop walking around here acting like, you know, playing the ignorance.
And oh, I know there is information out there, just like y'all think it's opportunity out here for us.
We have a sister out here who is providing the education,

(01:04:22):
the resources, the knowledge and the support to move you from where you are
so that you can become culturally competent, sensitive and understanding,
especially when you're dealing with people of other ethnicities.
And that's what this country is about. I mean, at this point, we're all here.
We all got to figure it out. We have to respect each other. And that's why companies

(01:04:42):
like All Things Diverse exist.
And I'm so happy to know her. And I'm so thankful that you gave us your time here today, Dr. Hodo.
So, thank you so much. I want to say thank you so much.
I'm going to have a conversation. You know, I'm always open.
Girl, we're going to have to.

(01:05:02):
I think there's got to be a part two, because I know I'm just writing down all
kinds of topics like I need you to speak to.
But, you know, I don't want to suck you for your knowledge.
I want people to be intrigued enough to explore how to work with you and how
to get the help that they need.
If they're serious about learning more and changing their mindset,

(01:05:25):
then they need to reach out to you.
And that's why I'm so happy well thank you you're welcome alright well thanks
so much for appearing again and we'll see each other soon for sure oh you know
we will alright alright bye bye.
Music.