April 4, 2024 • 47 mins
Join Pastor Brent McQuay, along with Pastor Carlton McCarthy and Pastor Katie Greaves, as they explore the profound messages of Good Friday and Easter. Pastor Carlton sheds light on the depth of Jesus' final sayings, while Pastor Katie reflects on the humanity and care Jesus showed, even in his last moments. Shifting the focus to Easter, the conversation emphasizes the transformative power of the resurrection. This episode offers a thoughtful examination of these key moments in our faith, providing fresh perspectives on their enduring impact and implications for our faith and daily lives.
If you're looking to get even more out of this podcast episode, check out the full sermon on the same topic on our YouTube channel https://go.clc.tv/ps53
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:11):
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to a very special episode
of between sermons because it was Easter weekend, and
we're gonna kind of recap some things. And we
closed out a series talking about how we can
become more like Jesus. It was a very big
weekend here at CLC, and so I brought in
two friends to help me talk about all this
(00:33):
fun stuff. Let's do it. Pastor Carleton's pretty recognizable
on the podcast. I think he's our default guest,
the celebrity. Done, done, done. But to balance out
all of that, we brought in the lovely Pastor
Katie.
Thank you.
So glad you could be here. Your first time
on the show?
Actually, first time. I'm a newbie.
(00:53):
Yeah.
See how this goes.
Yeah, we dragged you in after your Easter coma.
Like, hey, let's talk.
I'm still waking up from my Easter.
Coma, and the rookie has to do all the
talking. That's what happens.
Help me, lord.
Help me. Yep, that's essentially how it goes. I'm
just here to watch the two of you have
a great conversation about everything. Love it. But I
(01:14):
want to kind of jump in with Good Friday,
because, Pastor Carleton, you delivered us the seven last
words of Jesus.
Yep.
Which is always a little weird. I guess. I
understand the idea that it's seven words, as in
things he said, but it does in my head,
like, I want to count. I want to count
seven actual words. And it's like, yeah, the seven
(01:35):
words of Jesus words are like 87 words, so
it's a little bit different. But, man, walk me
through, like, preparing to speak on Good Friday. Going
back into. Because one of the interesting things about
this is not each of the gospels give you
all.
Exactly.
You kind of have to peace through and create
(01:57):
this timeline based on. Okay, what did Matthew say?
What did Mark say? What did Luke say?
Yes.
And so talk about that process.
Yeah. So the one thing that really helps is
my reading style, how I read the Bible in
chronological order. And so reading it in chronological order,
you get, like, it jumps around. So you get
(02:19):
all seven statements that Jesus.
Do you use, like, a chronological, like a physical
chronological Bible, or do you use, like, you version.
I did the. I did that plan, like, four
or five years ago.
Yeah. I do it every year because I like
to read the Bible as one big story because
I'm the kind of guy that wants to know
what happens next, you know? And so that helps
me, you know, get a big picture of the
(02:40):
Bible, but, yeah. So the process in preparing for
it was understanding where the statements are in each
book of the Gospels. And then for me, because
I like stories. I want to know, how do
we get here? And so I had to go
back through the night before of Jesus being tried
(03:01):
and then the torturing process starting. And it was
like, that was so impactful for me reading it
that I was like, I have to add this
in there to give it some more weights, because
you don't really get the full weight of what
he's saying on the cross unless you know what
he's been through. Because you get to the cross
and you say, how in the world is he
even talking at this point? Because he's got to
(03:24):
pull himself up to breathe. If he says anything
at all, it's going to be the most important
thing that he has said in his Life. And
so I wanted to kind of walk us through
the pain and the suffering that he went through
leading up to the Cross, and, and then you
really understand, okay, he's on this Cross for three
to 6 hours. He says seven things. These seven
(03:45):
things must be vitally important. And so that was
part of the.
Process of, well, and even just to think about
the fact that, like, the beating that he took
on his back, I mean, his, his back is
like hamburger meat.
Oh, yeah, it's open. Completely opened.
And in order to breathe, in order to x
or does it inhale? Yeah, you have to. To
(04:05):
push up, which means his back.
Is scraping against solid wood, a piece.
Of wood that I don't know. I'm doubting the
Romans took the time to sand that thing down
to a nice, smooth finish. No, just the sheer
agony, the sheer pain of going through that. Not
only is it sobering for us to see, man,
(04:28):
the pain that he was going through, but it
does, as you said, it adds weight to these
things that he says because it's not like, you
know, he just was talking for the sake of
talking.
Right. It wasn't conversation.
Every single phrase, every word out of his mouth
was intentional. It was purposeful. And I love the
way you were able to just walk us through
kind of the significance of each of those things.
(04:49):
Yep. And, you know, a lot of it has
to do with us.
Yeah.
You know, forgiveness, you know, meeting him in paradise,
him taking care of his mother, is a reflection
of how he takes care of us as well
as taking care of the sins of all the
world at the same time. And then you get
a glimpse of the intimacy he has with the
(05:10):
father as well, which is really important. I think
that we tend to forget that we have a
selfish Jesus, that Jesus is only here for us
to save us from our sins. But the intimacy
that he had with his father in those last
two days is great. You know, he's crying out
to his father in the garden in prayer, and
(05:32):
then he's talking to him on the cross, you
know, confirming that it is finished, giving him his
life into the hands of the father, crying out
to God when the sins are on Jesus back.
You know, why aren't you looking at me? Why
aren't you here right now, you know, quoting David
from psalms? And so there's a lot going on
there, and it's really powerful.
(05:53):
No, I think for me, that him quoting David,
quoting the song for me, that's the one that
has so much depth and significance to it when
you take into account the struggle, the agony of
just saying anything. And so of all of the
psalms of David that he could quote, he references
(06:16):
the messianic psalm.
Yeah, he could have quoted anything.
Yeah. But he quotes the psalm that David writes
about himself, about Jesus. And it's one of those
things that just sparks. Like, we'll use Katie as
the example. If Katie were to start singing a
song right now. Yeah.
The lyrics would come to our head.
Exactly. We would finish it out. And so for
(06:38):
his audience to be able to finish. So in
saying, my God, my God, why have you forsaken
me? He actually. If you read psalm 22, that's
a lot of words, he said in just quoting
that first line, like, to me, that's just.
And so the people that are surrounding the cross
watching this take place have the lyrics of David's
(07:00):
song in their head, and they're watching it in
action.
And now they're thinking, okay, my bones are out
of joint. They've pierced me. My hands have been
pierced. The soldiers and feet. Yeah. The soldiers are
fighting over the garments.
Yes.
In front of, like.
And they're watching it happen.
Like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a
minute.
(07:20):
And you get the realization, like the roman soldier
in Mark who says, this is. This is the
son of.
Son of God.
Yeah.
That's a beautiful thing.
Yep.
All right, so for both of you, the question
is, of the seven things that Jesus said, which
one hit you the biggest? Like, which one was
like, that? Man, that's impressive. That's powerful. That's life
(07:41):
changing. That's inspiring.
Life changing.
But if you gotta pick one, pick one of
the songs.
Yeah, one.
I mean, I love the way that we approached
the. Like, I'm not. I'm not gonna quote it
correctly, but he says, woman, here is your son.
(08:01):
Yeah.
That approach that you took to that just the
humanity in that. As he's dying, he's still thinking
of others, he's still connecting people together and caring
after people. That, to me, really struck me in
a way that I've never heard before. So that
was impactful to me. I think, how can you
(08:24):
go with anything? But it is finished, you know,
that is like, so final. That is such, that
is the word we live by, is. It is
finished for us. We don't have to do the
work. We don't have to strive anymore. That to
me is just, I don't know. You live in
the. It is finished.
Yep.
Yeah. It is finished is great, because it's not
(08:45):
just finished for that moment of him dying. It's
not just finished of the 33 years he lived
on earth. It is finished for all of creation
leading up to that point, and then now for
all of eternity, it is finished. And so it's
like, it is finished is everything. Like, it's everlasting
(09:07):
to everlasting. It's not just the moment. And then
with him taking care of his mother, that was
such a strategic plan because he knows what's like,
he knows his family dynamic and what's going to
happen with his half brothers. He understands the disciples
aren't going to be around, and he's got one
that he's preserving to take care of his mother.
And John has other tasks to do, too. I
(09:28):
mean, he writes the gospel of John, then he's
going to see Jesus again and write down what
Jesus tells him for revelation. And so, like, the
strategy that Jesus uses to take care of Mary
and as a reflection of his strategy and plan
for me and how he's going to take care
of me, it reminded me of when Jesus healed
the paralyzed man who came down through the roof
(09:51):
and he forgave him of his sins first. And
that's the pattern of the statements that Jesus makes,
he forgave. He says, you're going to meet me
in paradise. And then he takes care of our
personal needs. He forgave that man of his sins.
And then he turned around and had a conversation
with the Pharisees and then came back to the
man and said, okay, now you're healed. Take up
your man walk. And so, like, that was really
(10:13):
powerful for me. But I think for me, back
to the question, the forgiveness of sins. Like, forgive
them for they know not what they do. The
fact that Jesus intercedes on my behalf to the
father in my sin is just amazing to me.
Like, he's seeking my salvation in a way that
(10:34):
I can't even comprehend. Like, when I'm in my
wrongdoings and in my sin, Jesus is interceding on
my behalf for the father to forgive me so
I can get back right with him. And like,
that, for me, that was just like, man, he
loves me even through my sin. And that's just
amazing.
Well, that moment is so sobering, too, for anybody
(10:54):
that's been hurt by someone else or have. Has
gotten to a place where it's like, I can't
forgive them. And I've had people tell me, like,
Brent, if you even knew what that person did
to me, you wouldn't be telling me that I'm
supposed to forgive them, because. No. And then Jesus
demonstrates it on the cross.
Like, I'm like, they crucified Jesus.
Forgive them. Like the guy that was whipping me
(11:16):
five minutes ago, the guy that drove the nail
in my hands.
Right.
Like, the crowd that's spitting on me. Forgive those
people.
Right. Like, while we were yet in sin.
Absolutely.
Yeah, that was. That'll mess with you.
Yeah.
Yeah, man. It's hard to pick. Pick a favorite.
But I like all those. I love what you
(11:37):
teased out, even about, you know, the woman. This
is. This is your son, son, this is your
mother. The fact that he chose the youngest of
his disciples, the fact that he chose the one
that was the only one that was gonna live,
it's like the rest of these guys, they're dead
(11:57):
in ten years.
They're not gonna make it.
But that guy, he's got five books. He's got
a right, you know, he's gonna end up on
the island of Patmos and.
Right.
He'll be all right. You know, he's got some
time, you know.
Yeah.
Mary will be long dead.
Gotta be out. He's gonna outlive Mary. Yeah.
All right. This is the one I'm gonna pick.
Yeah.
(12:17):
It's just a beautiful thing. I don't know, just
the way that God orchestrates everything.
Yeah.
I know you. You kind of struggle with one
the, you know, I'm thirst. I thirst. Yes. I
hate the idea that Jesus is, like, self fulfilling
a prophecy.
Yeah. It's the last prophecy that he needs to
fulfill. Of the 300 plus that he fulfilled, it's
like Jesus. You could have just left that one
(12:38):
out.
But I love that he didn't. Like, I love
that he didn't. And sure, yeah. It's like the
one thing that he had control over. Yeah. Whereas
everything else he can't really control. But even in
that, like, him saying, I thirst like, that doesn't
mean that they're gonna respond, right?
Absolutely.
The prophetic word that they're gonna give him vinegar
in that moment. It's still accurate. It still happens.
(13:01):
So I don't know. I think that that's even
for me, like, that one, even though you kind
of struggle with it.
Why did you say that?
Did he really have to, like, man, look, there's
still 299 plus, that he had no kind of
control over. It still took place. But I just
love the idea that our savior didn't leave anything
unfinished.
(13:21):
Right?
And so when he says. When he finally does
say, it is finished, like, it's. It's like, yeah,
he. He checked off every. Every box. He did
everything. He was.
There is no question.
Nothing left undone.
Right?
Like, it's. I don't know. There's just a beautiful
thing about that.
Yeah.
Yeah, man.
Good Friday.
Good Friday. I have to say, this might be
an unpopular opinion, but I feel like I love
(13:44):
Good Friday services more than I love the Easter
service. There's something so beautiful and intimate about it.
Intimacy of it, right?
Intimacy for me. I love Easter, and I, obviously,
we live in a resurrected work, right? God has
finished the thing. But there's something about. To me,
it's similar to, like, it's easy to say happy
(14:06):
birthday to somebody. It's really difficult to say, I'm
gonna go and bring you food while you're sick.
It's more intimate to live in that space with
someone versus to celebrate with someone. And so Easter
feels like the big thing we celebrate. But Good
Friday is that intimate moment that we enter into
(14:28):
spaces that only the closest people can connect inside
of. It's so relational that I just. Every good
Friday, it just. It hits me in a new
spot, in an intimate way, out of relationship to
the Father, that you're able to remember what Jesus
did to such a level and live in that
space for just a moment instead of living in
(14:50):
this celebration space that we love to live in.
Especially on Sundays as we go to church, we're
going to. I need my fill of good things
to live in that intimacy with God and with
Jesus to remember what they did. It's such a
reminder, even in our relationship with God, that he
wants all the emotion, all the deep spaces, not
(15:11):
just the shallow good stuff, but he wants you
to bring those intimate, deep, dark things to the
table in relationship that just. I don't know. Good
Friday doesn't me every time.
I'll join you in being unpopular, but I think
I'd even take it a step further. Easter becomes
about so many other things. So, like, it's. You
(15:32):
know, are the kids all dressed? Nice photo. What
are we doing for our Easter celebration? Yeah, are
we gonna have our Easter meal? And so it's
like. It becomes, like a cultural thing. It becomes,
you know, it's like Christmas takes time to recognize
we're celebrating the resurrection and all that, but it
seems like we take a moment within the day
(15:54):
to recognize what it's about. Whereas Good Friday, it's.
It's. There is no family dinner. No. Like, it's
just. This is about the cross, and we don't.
Man, this is controversial. I guess we don't corrupt
it.
Yeah.
With. With anything.
Right.
Whereas sometimes Sunday, you know, Easter Sunday can feel
a little bit corrupted outside the church, inside the
church, just kind of across the board. But Good
(16:16):
Friday is just. It is. There's no confusion. There's
no doubt of what. What it's all about. And
so, for me, that's. Yeah, yeah.
The stage was beautiful. The worship set was perfect.
I love how we ended it, and we didn't
say anything, and we just left out of the
auditorium, left out of the building in remembrance. Yeah.
And it had held that moment for us. Instead
(16:39):
of the, you know, talking to each other, finding
the person that, you know, you haven't seen in
a while or anything like that, it's just like,
no, I'm gonna stay in this moment until I
go home.
Yeah.
I think it took about ten minutes in the
lobby before somebody finally, like, laughed. And then other
people were like, oh, okay. But, no, I do.
I love the. That just quiet stillness, the intimacy
(17:02):
of it, just the somberness of it. And I
think that sometimes, you know, it's really easy for
us to go through a good Friday knowing that
Sunday is coming. But when I try and put
myself in the perspective of the disciples, like, Saturday.
Saturday was a dark day.
Yes, it was dark.
(17:23):
Is this. Do you feel like I was thinking
about this the other day. I felt like the
disciples probably felt like this was the most gaslit
experience. Like, I just got gaslit by Jesus. He
said this, like, I'm gonna conquer, and he's gone.
And we've given up everything in our lives for
this guy. I'm not even sure.
(17:44):
Yeah.
Like, what do we do now? That had to
feel.
That's why they go back fishing.
Crazy. I guess I better get back to what
I was doing.
And Jesus comes back and walks with them, and
they don't recognize them. And then when they break
the bread at the table, then their eyes are
open to him. And he's like, I told you
(18:04):
I was coming back. Like, this is prophesied. Like,
so, like, why were you so down tried these
past three days? Like, I don't understand, right?
It's like, have you ever watched a movie where,
like, they totally tell you everything, like, throughout the
movie, but if you're not paying attention to it,
you don't. Like, you get to the end of
the movie, you're like, you have to watch it
again. I feel like the disciples were, like, 100%.
(18:28):
That's what he meant when he said, you're gonna
destroy the temple and build.
A day later, Jesus is sitting there. Like, once
he's fully revealed to them.
He'S like, I told you this, yo. Y'all weren't
paying attention.
Like, what are you guys talking about?
Slap the prophet God.
Totally. But, I mean, can you imagine? These are
people who walked with Jesus every single day. And
(18:53):
just to think that we're, like, we're expecting people
to jump right in and believe. Like, this is
the way. Follow it. It takes a minute. Discipleship
takes a minute to follow and to understand and
to live in those. The, like, Jesus thought process.
Process. Right. That change of lifestyle takes a second
because you got it. Like, you gotta imagine these
(19:14):
disciples. It took them a lifetime of just learning,
walking with Jesus. Jesus leaves, and now I gotta
live it out even further. But even they had
their doubts. Even they denied Jesus.
Yep. That's actually one of my favorite. You know,
so there's a lot of, like, evidence as for
why we believe the Bible, why we believe it's
true. But one of the greatest evidence is how
(19:36):
horribly it portrays its own writers. Like, like, if.
If Peter is writing this story, is he gonna
deny Christ three times? Like, is he. Is he
gonna add in there? Like, yeah, and then. And
then Jesus called me Satan. Right, exactly. Like, if
you're making up the story, you do not include
the details that the gospels give us. Like, you
(19:59):
make yourself look like a hero, and instead the
gospel. Yeah. And it takes, these people doubted. They
questioned. They ran away in fear. They were constantly
in terror.
Exactly.
Never understood what Jesus was talking about when he's
talking about it.
Like, and it takes, like, for Peter's example, it
takes, like, Luke to point out his finer points.
When Peter's given his story to mark to write,
(20:21):
he doesn't even include some of the times that
Jesus actually said, on this rock, I'm gonna build
my church.
Like, yeah, Peter doesn't even include the good stuff.
Right? Yeah. Then that's what makes it more real.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's crazy. All right, so that. That was good
Friday, but Easter did come.
Yes, it did.
It happened. And we got a chance to do
(20:43):
a lot on Easter Sunday. We celebrated salvations, we
celebrated baptisms. We closed out the series, really just
kind of summarized what we had been talking about
and just put it in simpler terms. Like, hey,
we're going to live like Jesus. But as we
kind of walk through Sunday, just wanted to kind
of get you guys take on a few different
(21:05):
things. One is the whole idea of Barabbas. So
that was the thing that hit me in preparation,
I think it was maybe a month ago. I
was like, I have no idea what I'm gonna
teach on Easter. I have no idea what I'm
gonna teach, like, as a pastor, as a preacher.
Like, Easter is. It's. It's the worst. It's the
best, but it's the worst. Cause it's like, everybody
(21:25):
has these expectations, but it, like, you have to
tell a story that everybody's heard. So it's like,
man, not to be like, oh, woe is me
or Brent, you know, such a hard job. But,
man, preaching on Easter, that's. That's a tough one.
Yeah.
But, um, it was. It was the Barabbas story
that. That just. It rocked me and just this
(21:48):
idea. And I had to. I had to do
a lot of research because I was like, I
don't want to say something that isn't true. Right.
But all the research that I did pointed to
this idea that. Yeah. That. That cross that Jesus
hung on because of the timing, because of how
quickly, because of everything.
Yeah.
Like, that cross was already prepared for a different
prisoner, right. Now, can we say with 100% certainty
(22:10):
it was Barabbas? Not with 100% certainty, but we're
pretty.
He was next in line to be crucified.
Yeah. He's the only other person.
Jesus was tried and crucified.
And there's speculation that. And there's speculation that the
other two thieves on the cross were, like, cohorts
with barabbas, like they were his friends. Like, there's.
(22:32):
There's. There's theory out there that those guys were
connected. So it was like, there was a plan
to crucify these three guys that were caught leading
this rebellion, and then they replaced one of them
with Jesus. For me, it's like, man, the literal
and the figurative coming together in that moment is
just so incredibly beautiful and powerful. And I love
(22:57):
it, and I hate it at the same time,
because I'm literally teaching a class on not replacing
Bible characters, biblical interpretation. Like, hey, don't do this.
And then God's like, go ahead and do it.
Just this one time.
Right?
This one time. This is what it's there for.
But I love changing out just the mentality of
self centered Christianity, which culturally, we want to live
(23:20):
in, putting ourselves where we belong, which is we
are not David. We're not all the greats, right?
Like, we are that guy, the one.
Who deserved, which is such a crazy thing that
we do because it's so selective. Like, we're David
when he's killing Goliath, but we're not David when
(23:41):
he's with Bathsheba.
Right, right.
Like, at that point, we switch to, like, maybe
Nathan. We're the ones coming in to tell David.
We're all, yeah, like, I would have seen. Yeah,
like, we're Peter when he's doing good stuff. We're
not Peter when he's denying Jesus.
Exactly.
We're so selective in who we are when we
(24:02):
are that person.
Everybody wants to be the hero of.
Their own story, and the Bible is about God
being the hero.
Right?
Not us.
So I can't go fleece God in any kind
of way, man.
There's so many things that are.
Just prove yourself to me, man.
People take that one. Like, that's. That's a horrible
one. Like, yeah, literally, you're. You're doing what Gideon
(24:25):
is chastised for doing.
Yes.
Like, this is bad that Gideon did it. God
acquiesce to it. Like, God had a plan, filled
it, but God wasn't happy with the idea of
Gideon putting out this fleece. Yeah. And I've talked
to so many christians are like, well, I'm just
putting out my fleece. I'm like, stop it. Yeah,
(24:47):
bring that fleece back in. That was. That was
not. We're going to talk about it tonight in
the class I'm teaching. Like, there's prescriptive texts and
there's descriptive text. So, like, don't take something that
somebody did in the Bible and all of a
sudden be like, oh, that's what I'm supposed to
do. Because, no, you're not supposed. Supposed to be
watching people bathe on top of your roof. No,
you're not supposed to be Samson. Like, Samson was
(25:09):
a horrible person. I think because we glamorize, like,
Samson's story for kids that you grow up being
like, man, I want to be like Samson when
I grow up. Big, strong man. You realize that
his whole story is about how physically strong he
was and how emotionally and spiritually weak.
He was right.
It's his weakness that is the highlight of the
(25:30):
story.
He was set apart from birth and then broke
every rule.
Every single rule. Like, every single rules. Like, in
one moment, he eats something he's not supposed to
eat, touches something on his way to get with
a woman, that he's not supposed to be all
(25:50):
bad. Just all of it. Just all of it.
And then people are like, yeah, but he killed,
you know, all these people with the jawbone of
a donkey. He's not supposed to touch anything. He's
not supposed to be touching the weapon he's using.
Like, but is that not the ultimate example from
Easter to Samson's jawbone?
It's the ultimate example, though, of us wanting to
be the hero of our own story. He said,
(26:11):
oh, I've got this strength. I can do it.
Even in worship, I feel like we've just made.
We've. I feel like my husband and I, as
we lead worship, are always thinking about how not
to keep worship in a self centered space.
Right?
Because culturally, we just want to live in this.
Like, God is my champion. He's gonna make everything
(26:32):
great. I'm gonna live a great life. And let's
sing about that versus. Jesus is the hero of
every story, and he's where I center, and if
he's magnified in me, it means I have to
lay myself down. It's so hard to live that
life, even in worship, in the way we read
the word. I just thought that was such a
(26:53):
great correction, a quick but great correction in the
Easter message, which is, it's about Jesus. It's not
about you.
And you would think that on Easter, that would
be, like, the easiest moment to be like, hey,
this is about Jesus. But, man, it's still. It's
tough. One of the best purchases I ever made,
(27:13):
this is years ago, I bought. It's called the
Jesus centered Bible. So it's a study Bible, but
all of the study notes from Genesis all the
way through revelation, all of it is just about
Jesus. So, like, in creation, it's like, okay, where's
Jesus?
Yeah, absolutely.
And, you know the headings before stuff and, like,
the little footnotes, everything is just. It's just Jesus
(27:34):
centered. And, man, it's so great. Like, I actually
have that Bible on my desk in the office
right now because I'll still, like, I'll be reading
something. I'll be like, let me. Man, I don't.
I don't know if I can see.
Jesus in this, right?
I'll flip to it, and it's like.
Oh, there he is.
There he is. Like, there he is. So, yeah,
highly recommend Jesus centered Bible. And it definitely gets
you out of this, making yourself the center of
(27:56):
the story and realize that, man, even when it's
a story about David, it's actually a story about
Jesus.
Right, right.
Yeah. And so it's just a really cool little.
But when you first brought up Barabbas and, you
know, to the pastors, when you're going over the
sermon, the thing that got me, it hit me
right away. What was Barabbas thinking, man? Cause it's
(28:18):
like he's getting ready to die. Like, they start
torturing Jesus that night.
Yeah.
And they're probably gonna start with him that night.
And he, you know, comes out of the cell
with the guards, and he's. He's probably got all
kinds of anxiety.
He's so sure.
Yeah, he's just like, this is it. I'm gonna
suffer through this pain and torture, and then I'm
(28:39):
gonna die, and that's gonna be the end of
my life. And that's it. Like, he is ultimately
damned. Like, he. Yeah, he has no hope at
all. He doesn't know what's going on outside. He
probably doesn't know who Jesus is, or I've heard
of Jesus, but doesn't know what's going on with
Jesus trial at the moment. Like, he just. He
is completely hopeless and has no clue of how
(29:01):
God is orchestrating his release through love and how
Jesus is going to replace him. And he gets
the chains taken off of him, and he's probably
wondering, like, what's going on? And he goes outside,
and then there's another, you know, thought that may
have come to his head. Like, he turns around
and says, what? I got released because this guy's
(29:21):
going to be crucified. But he didn't do anything.
Like the two thieves on the cross. The one
thief said, no, we're justified. Like, this punishment is
justified because of what we did. And Barabbas probably
had the same thought. Like, this guy's innocent. And
I don't know if that took over him being
appreciative of him being set free, but I'm sure
(29:44):
he had the moment, like, no, that's supposed to
be me.
Yeah, yeah. If anybody could look up at the
cross and see themselves, like, to see this, the.
This person is dying for me, it was Barabbas.
Right, right.
And. And, man, it's been so long since I
saw it, but I I want to say passion
of the Christ. Like, that was one of the
the movie. Like, that was one of the things
that they did horribly, from what I remember, like,
(30:06):
when they bring out Barabbas, like, he's, like, smiling
and laughing and, like, from what I remember, he's.
He's like. And maybe I need to watch it
again. But, like, from what I remember, he's got
this, like, arrogance about it. You did not know.
I'm sorry. There was no criminal that had arrogance.
Absolutely.
Coming out, especially roman prison.
(30:29):
Yeah.
No, no, no. You are. You are guilty of
leading an insurrection against Caesar.
Right.
No, you are not. You are not happy. You
are not excited. You are not laughing.
Right.
Like, and maybe I got the movie wrong, but
there was. There was one, I think it was
passion of the Christ, where, like, they bring him
out and he's, like, mocking and stuff, and it's
like, no, that. Yeah, missed that one. Like, that
(30:50):
dude was probably peeing his pants. Like. Like, literally,
like, it's just. There's no way around that. Crucifixion
was ugly.
Yeah.
The realization did it enough. You knew what was
coming.
Oh, yeah. Because people were being crucified all the
time. Like, they were being crucified in the streets
and in the roads leading from one place to
the next. So you knew what the punishment was
(31:12):
for disrupting the peace that Rome had placed wherever
they were.
Yeah.
It was a deterrent. It was like, hey, this
is what happens when you do this thing.
Right?
Which I think it's so poignant, kind of blending
Good Friday and Easter here. But you talked about
the timing of the crucifixion, the fact that we
had a crucifixion versus if Jesus came today.
(31:34):
Yeah. It's.
There's some real differences in the way that would
have taken place.
Yeah, yeah.
But to die on a cross in that day.
Yeah.
Yikes.
Yeah.
God knew what he was doing.
Yeah.
The timing is when he placed Jesus in that
time. Yeah. You know exactly what he was doing.
Yeah. I get people asking all the time, like,
why did. Why did Jesus come when he came?
(31:55):
Why didn't he come, you know, when there were
cell phone cameras and stuff? Like, it's like, man,
it's an interesting thought process to go through, but,
like, I think that God orchestrated that moment for
a reason. Like, even. Even for the gospel to
be able to spread from that moment moving forward.
The roads that Rome had been adamantly building, the
connection to other places. Like, it was like, no,
(32:17):
this is like the perfect moment.
Paul's in prison in Rome, where all of the
news of the world comes from. And so Luke
is able to write this beautiful story about Christianity,
and it gets spread out throughout the entire region
and all over the world. Like, it's strategic, and
it's perfect.
Yep, that's right. Beautiful.
(32:38):
Yeah.
All right, so we got a couple of minutes
left. So the. The whole idea, really, for the
series was to become more like Jesus. Ultimately, it's
because of the cross and the empty tomb that
we even have the ability to live like Jesus,
because, really, I think that's the thing that people
need to take away is Old Testament. You are
(32:58):
still expected to live like Jesus, but you didn't
have the example to follow, and you didn't have
the power of the Holy Spirit in order to
do it. So all you see from genesis through
Malachi is failure. It's just over and over again.
Like, you're not good enough. Even the best amongst
(33:19):
us, Abraham, man of great faith, says his wife
is his sister because he's afraid. That's not faith.
That's fear. Noah has this great moment, then he
gets drunk and, you know, passes out naked in
front of his kids. Like, it's like, okay. Like,
like, it's like every character, practical as it gets,
(33:40):
but it's like every character, like, oh, this is
the good one. Just keep reading. He's not. And
so then we get to Jesus and his teachings,
the example he lays out, and then his death
and his resurrection. I love, you know, Eugene Peterson's
paraphrase where he talks about, you know, Jesus brought
(34:01):
sin down with him and then brought God down
to us. So, like, sin no longer has the
hold that it used to have. And so, really,
for me, I think living like Jesus, you can't
talk about living like Jesus and not talk about
sin. And if there was one compliment that I
(34:21):
got more than any other, that felt weird was
how many people thank me for talking about sin
on Easter Sunday, and I'm like, that's the whole
story. That shouldn't be, you know, praiseworthy. That's. That's
just like, how do you not, like, talk about
sin? But I think that in our. In our
culture, and maybe it's this self centered Christianity that
(34:42):
we have. Like, we don't like to look at
ourselves as sinful, or we don't like.
To look at guilt, and we all have sin
falls. In short, all. Didn't say many is sinful.
Right?
But. And it's in its. In our endeavors to
live like Jesus that we have to actually say
no to things. And that's. I think that's what
becomes the hardest part, is you know, we want
(35:02):
to do the stuff that we like.
Right?
Like, hey, I enjoy this.
Absolutely.
You know, Jesus forgives me. You know, it's. What
does Paul say? You know, should we keep on
sinning.
So that grace made it better?
No, of course.
Not at all.
Like, if Brent was paraphrasing that, it would be.
No, you idiot. Like, no. Like, we have to
(35:24):
take a stance against sin that, hey, if the
Bible says this is not good, don't try and
justify it. And I see that happen so often
where christians today will either justify the sin in
their life or completely ignore it. Like, just turn
a blind eye and say, oh, well, you know,
I'm not going to deal with that thing because
I got Jesus.
And, you know, I think what we tend to
(35:46):
do is that we don't call it sin. We
say, you know, if I have salvation or if
I become a Christian, then I lose the pleasures
of life. I lose the things that I like
to do. And it's like, okay, the pleasures of
life. You mean the joy that you have in
Christ Jesus, who gives you peace and comfort and,
like, you mean that pleasure? Like, no, no, no.
Other pleasures. Oh, you mean sin. So let's just
(36:09):
call it what it is, right?
Yeah, I think we need to get to a
place where we call sense. Yeah.
And it's like, okay, so where. What exactly are
you talking about? Because, like, all of my joy
and pleasure in my life comes from Christ. So
if there's anything else outside of that, it's sin.
And so I got to call it what it
is. And it's like, no, I can't mess around
(36:29):
with it. It is what it is.
And, man, I heard somebody say when I was.
I was probably, like, 18 and this stuck with
me, but he said, why be entertained by something
Jesus died to save you from?
Yeah.
And, man, there have been times when I'm like,
I'm watching a movie and, like, all of a
sudden, like, the whole story of the movie is,
is about adultery, basically. It's like, you know, somebody's
having an affair and there's drama around it and
stuff. And I'm sitting there going, I'm being entertained
(36:51):
by literally something that Jesus went on across to
save me from. Let me turn that off.
Right, exactly.
But how often do we actually turn it off?
How often do we actually say, you know what?
Jesus died an agonizing, horrible death because of sin.
And here I am being entertained and, and finding
pleasure in the thing that killed Jesus.
(37:14):
And I love how we had the mirrors all
over the church and the mirrors on stage, it's
like I have to really reflect on my life
and who I am and say, am I living
like Jesus? And there's a realization that, okay, I'm
not going to be able to live like Jesus
100%, but my pursuit to be holy, my pursuit
(37:36):
for righteousness, my pursuit for salvation, you know, I
need to be filled every day. You know, the
greek term for being filled or being saved is
continuous. It's, I have to be being saved every
single day. I have to be filled with the
spirit every single day. And so I have to
(37:57):
constantly reflect on, okay, is today the day that
I'm pursuing to be like Christ? And so it's
the, the effort to pursue being like him that
gets me. It's, it's, you know, I'm not gonna
be like Christ because we've all sinned, but it's
that pursuit for holiness and right and righteousness.
Yeah. It is a goal that we will never
(38:18):
fully achieve on this side of heaven. But I
think some people will look at that and say,
well, then why even try? And I think that's
just the, the worst possible take you can have
on it. It's like, look, I know that I'm
not gonna be perfect, but, man, I'm gonna keep
trying. I'm gonna keep trying to be better today
than I was yesterday.
(38:38):
But these are the words that make our salvation
complete.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And the scripture says, delight in the Lord, and
he will give you the desires of your heart.
And I think we can, as that self centered
reading can spin that to say what I've wanted
all my life, I'm gonna get that because I
love God. And what I actually think he's saying
(39:01):
is, I will change the desires of your heart
so that you desire the things that you should
desire when you delight in me. And I think
that is the way that we walk with Jesus,
is we delight in the Lord, and he gives.
Us and our desires to be more like him.
And here's the fun thing about that verse. So
(39:23):
delight in the Lord, and he'll give you the
desires of your heart. Well, if you're delighting in
the Lord, where are your desires?
In the Lord.
In the Lord, and it's a delight.
So, like the person that's like, man, I'm gonna
delight myself in the Lord so that I get
a Ferrari.
This is the first part.
You're delighting yourself in the Ferrari. So you've already
broken the first part of this thing. If you
(39:46):
delight in the Lord, then that's where your heart
is. That's where your desire is.
That's it. It's about the delight. Taste and see
that the Lord is good. It's a good thing.
And we want to elevate the things that we
were brought out of and say, well, this was
a delight to me then, but now you have
a new thing to delight in and to have
(40:07):
joy from, and there's something way less temporary to
lean into that will sustain you. And we just
missed that part, thinking, all I've known is this
side of the things that I really loved to
do before. But there is joy, there is goodness,
there's delight in the Lord. It's just you gotta
(40:28):
lean in all the way. And if you don't,
you're gonna feel like, well, yeah, what am I?
This was fun, too.
And if you ever tasted and saw that, man,
God's goodness is greater than anything that you can
ever experience on earth. And I mean, everything, you
can experience everything, it pales in comparison to the
(40:51):
goodness of God in our lives. And so the
more that we taste, the more that we delight.
We get to experience that, and we don't have
a desire to do anything else.
Yeah.
So for somebody listening right now, that's like, okay,
I've got. I've got some sin in my life.
That's. It's not just like, a mistake I made
once or twice or. But, like, there's this habitual,
repetitive. I know this thing is sin. I keep
(41:13):
doing it, whatever, whatever that may be. What, what
advice would you guys have for that person? Like,
how do you actually get free of that sin?
Yeah. For me, it's the more intimate moments I
have with God, the closer I get to him.
When I draw near to him, he draws near
to me. And the taste for sin, the temptation
(41:36):
may always be there for the rest of my
life, but my desire to go to it. I
love how Jesus changes my trajectory every time he
sees me veering off. And it could happen in
a whisper, it could happen in tragedy, affliction. He
gets my attention and gets me back on track,
(41:56):
and I lose the taste for some of the
things that I used to have a desire for.
The more that I'm in his presence. And it
sounds crazy, but I'm telling you, if you just
try it, if you get up in the morning
and dedicate yourself to prayer, you get into the
word, you find a good book to read about
Christ. Like, the more that you pursue him, the
(42:20):
less of the world you have a desire for,
and you won't be able to overcome sin in
yourself. If that was the case, we wouldn't need
resurrection Sunday. We wouldn't need Christ to come to
redeem us. But the more that we focus on
Christ and make him a part of our life,
man, the Holy Spirit works in getting rid of
the taste for the things of the world.
(42:41):
That's right.
That's good.
I think that for me, it's the intimacy with
the Lord, it's the intimacy with the father that
when you walk in his presence. No one I
know has ever walked into the presence of the
Lord and walked away. Not changed, untransformed. That never
happened. When you walk with the Holy Spirit, when
(43:01):
you walk in the presence of the Lord, when
you live a lifestyle of worship, you're entering into
the presence, honoring him, laying yourself down, it changes
you from within. To me, it would be the
equivalent of me saying, I'm going to start eating
more vegetables and eating less sugar. Over time, you're
going to taste sugar in everything that you used
to eat. You're going to go, my chicken nuggets
(43:22):
have sugar in them. I didn't even know there
was sugar here, because you don't toothpaste.
Like, my toothpaste is so sweet.
Because you got used to the good thing and
you took out the one thing that you feel
like maybe I shouldn't have as much of that.
And your taste changes. You start to recognize more
where things are leading you deeper into sin. I
(43:45):
didn't taste that sugar here before.
Yes. And you would fall away.
There's a little bit there. And the Lord just
exposes more and more, even in the word he
says. The scripture says, I've hidden your word in
my heart that I might not sin against you.
When we continue to hide the word, and that
means it's deep. When it's hidden, it's deep in
(44:06):
there. It comes up, and it exposes things immediately
so that we can say, let me not eat
this little sugary something or other, because it's growing
my taste for the wrong thing.
Right, right.
Let me keep seeking after the good things and
eating that.
Yeah. Yeah.
Wow. That's good.
That's real good. There's this idea that you become
(44:27):
what you focus on. And so if we're gonna
become like Jesus, then we're focusing on Jesus, right.
When you focus on sin, you commit sin. Like,
it. It's. It's that whole, you know, joke about,
you know, don't think about a pink elephant. Immediately
gonna be thinking about it.
Right.
So if your thoughts are always on sinful things,
(44:49):
if you're if you're surrounded by the sinful things,
if you're surrounded by people that draw you to
sinful things, then, yeah, that's what you're gonna do.
When. When you surround yourself with Christ, you become
more like him.
Right.
And so where's your focus? And it's, you know,
our goal is not necessarily, and I. Maybe I
got an ugly way to phrase this or a
(45:10):
better way to phrase this, but if your focus
is in. I'm not gonna sin. I'm not gonna
sin. I don't wanna sin. I don't wanna sin.
I don't wanna sin. You're still thinking about sin
all the time. But if your thought process is,
I wanna be like Christ, I wanna be as
close to Jesus as I can, then you're gonna
do things that are gonna lead you towards him.
When you're being led towards Christ, guess what? You're
being led away from sin.
(45:31):
Yes, absolutely.
Totally different.
But that's the process.
Yeah.
Good stuff. Well, this is a great conversation, guys.
We made it.
Yeah. Hey, next week, I don't know who's gonna
be on the show with me, but next week
is gonna be interesting because we're. We're doing a
hot seat Q and a. Yeah. They're just gonna
(45:51):
throw questions at me. And what I would say
is Sunday is the kind of Sunday where you
decide whether or not CLC is your church. Because
if you sabotage, if you got a stance in
a certain way, and you're like, maybe ClC feels
that way, maybe they don't, you're gonna find out.
Yeah. Just ask the question.
(46:12):
We're not gonna apologize.
No, no, no. I'm just gonna give you straight.
It is what it is.
Truth and love. We did that as a series,
right?
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and there's some things
I may be wrong about, but, you.
Know, the holy spirit will be there.
That's right.
And I'll be honest, I'll be like, hey, you
know what? I don't know. Or, hey, you know
what? I'm still developing my views on that because
(46:33):
there's room for all of us to grow and
learn. But Sunday's gonna be fun. And then podcast
afterwards should be. We'll clean up some stuff, maybe,
hopefully.
You mean the Bible's not black and white?
No, it's not a science.
It's an art.
It is. It is an art and a science
in interpreting scripture. But there's the interpretation. It can
vary depending on lot of factors. Gotta. We gotta
(46:55):
bridge the gaps, man. Everybody should just listen to
my biblical interpretation. Course.
You should do that as a series, right?
Man, we probably could.
It's not how many people we would lose.
If people find the Bible boring, then CLC is
probably not the truth.
No, we are only both.
You can stick with your, you know, celebrity pastor
(47:16):
on YouTube barely talks about the Bible. You know,
go for it. Sorry. Hey, I didn't name any
names. I just, you know, threw out a blanket
statement about being a conversational controversy in here. Stick
to the book, and we'll see you next time
between sermons. Nice.
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to a very special episode
of between sermons because it was Easter weekend, and
we're gonna kind of recap some things. And we
closed out a series talking about how we can
become more like Jesus. It was a very big
weekend here at CLC, and so I brought in
two friends to help me talk about all this
(00:33):
fun stuff. Let's do it. Pastor Carleton's pretty recognizable
on the podcast. I think he's our default guest,
the celebrity. Done, done, done. But to balance out
all of that, we brought in the lovely Pastor
Katie.
Thank you.
So glad you could be here. Your first time
on the show?
Actually, first time. I'm a newbie.
(00:53):
Yeah.
See how this goes.
Yeah, we dragged you in after your Easter coma.
Like, hey, let's talk.
I'm still waking up from my Easter.
Coma, and the rookie has to do all the
talking. That's what happens.
Help me, lord.
Help me. Yep, that's essentially how it goes. I'm
just here to watch the two of you have
a great conversation about everything. Love it. But I
(01:14):
want to kind of jump in with Good Friday,
because, Pastor Carleton, you delivered us the seven last
words of Jesus.
Yep.
Which is always a little weird. I guess. I
understand the idea that it's seven words, as in
things he said, but it does in my head,
like, I want to count. I want to count
seven actual words. And it's like, yeah, the seven
(01:35):
words of Jesus words are like 87 words, so
it's a little bit different. But, man, walk me
through, like, preparing to speak on Good Friday. Going
back into. Because one of the interesting things about
this is not each of the gospels give you
all.
Exactly.
You kind of have to peace through and create
(01:57):
this timeline based on. Okay, what did Matthew say?
What did Mark say? What did Luke say?
Yes.
And so talk about that process.
Yeah. So the one thing that really helps is
my reading style, how I read the Bible in
chronological order. And so reading it in chronological order,
you get, like, it jumps around. So you get
(02:19):
all seven statements that Jesus.
Do you use, like, a chronological, like a physical
chronological Bible, or do you use, like, you version.
I did the. I did that plan, like, four
or five years ago.
Yeah. I do it every year because I like
to read the Bible as one big story because
I'm the kind of guy that wants to know
what happens next, you know? And so that helps
me, you know, get a big picture of the
(02:40):
Bible, but, yeah. So the process in preparing for
it was understanding where the statements are in each
book of the Gospels. And then for me, because
I like stories. I want to know, how do
we get here? And so I had to go
back through the night before of Jesus being tried
(03:01):
and then the torturing process starting. And it was
like, that was so impactful for me reading it
that I was like, I have to add this
in there to give it some more weights, because
you don't really get the full weight of what
he's saying on the cross unless you know what
he's been through. Because you get to the cross
and you say, how in the world is he
even talking at this point? Because he's got to
(03:24):
pull himself up to breathe. If he says anything
at all, it's going to be the most important
thing that he has said in his Life. And
so I wanted to kind of walk us through
the pain and the suffering that he went through
leading up to the Cross, and, and then you
really understand, okay, he's on this Cross for three
to 6 hours. He says seven things. These seven
(03:45):
things must be vitally important. And so that was
part of the.
Process of, well, and even just to think about
the fact that, like, the beating that he took
on his back, I mean, his, his back is
like hamburger meat.
Oh, yeah, it's open. Completely opened.
And in order to breathe, in order to x
or does it inhale? Yeah, you have to. To
(04:05):
push up, which means his back.
Is scraping against solid wood, a piece.
Of wood that I don't know. I'm doubting the
Romans took the time to sand that thing down
to a nice, smooth finish. No, just the sheer
agony, the sheer pain of going through that. Not
only is it sobering for us to see, man,
(04:28):
the pain that he was going through, but it
does, as you said, it adds weight to these
things that he says because it's not like, you
know, he just was talking for the sake of
talking.
Right. It wasn't conversation.
Every single phrase, every word out of his mouth
was intentional. It was purposeful. And I love the
way you were able to just walk us through
kind of the significance of each of those things.
(04:49):
Yep. And, you know, a lot of it has
to do with us.
Yeah.
You know, forgiveness, you know, meeting him in paradise,
him taking care of his mother, is a reflection
of how he takes care of us as well
as taking care of the sins of all the
world at the same time. And then you get
a glimpse of the intimacy he has with the
(05:10):
father as well, which is really important. I think
that we tend to forget that we have a
selfish Jesus, that Jesus is only here for us
to save us from our sins. But the intimacy
that he had with his father in those last
two days is great. You know, he's crying out
to his father in the garden in prayer, and
(05:32):
then he's talking to him on the cross, you
know, confirming that it is finished, giving him his
life into the hands of the father, crying out
to God when the sins are on Jesus back.
You know, why aren't you looking at me? Why
aren't you here right now, you know, quoting David
from psalms? And so there's a lot going on
there, and it's really powerful.
(05:53):
No, I think for me, that him quoting David,
quoting the song for me, that's the one that
has so much depth and significance to it when
you take into account the struggle, the agony of
just saying anything. And so of all of the
psalms of David that he could quote, he references
(06:16):
the messianic psalm.
Yeah, he could have quoted anything.
Yeah. But he quotes the psalm that David writes
about himself, about Jesus. And it's one of those
things that just sparks. Like, we'll use Katie as
the example. If Katie were to start singing a
song right now. Yeah.
The lyrics would come to our head.
Exactly. We would finish it out. And so for
(06:38):
his audience to be able to finish. So in
saying, my God, my God, why have you forsaken
me? He actually. If you read psalm 22, that's
a lot of words, he said in just quoting
that first line, like, to me, that's just.
And so the people that are surrounding the cross
watching this take place have the lyrics of David's
(07:00):
song in their head, and they're watching it in
action.
And now they're thinking, okay, my bones are out
of joint. They've pierced me. My hands have been
pierced. The soldiers and feet. Yeah. The soldiers are
fighting over the garments.
Yes.
In front of, like.
And they're watching it happen.
Like, wait a minute, wait a minute, wait a
minute.
(07:20):
And you get the realization, like the roman soldier
in Mark who says, this is. This is the
son of.
Son of God.
Yeah.
That's a beautiful thing.
Yep.
All right, so for both of you, the question
is, of the seven things that Jesus said, which
one hit you the biggest? Like, which one was
like, that? Man, that's impressive. That's powerful. That's life
(07:41):
changing. That's inspiring.
Life changing.
But if you gotta pick one, pick one of
the songs.
Yeah, one.
I mean, I love the way that we approached
the. Like, I'm not. I'm not gonna quote it
correctly, but he says, woman, here is your son.
(08:01):
Yeah.
That approach that you took to that just the
humanity in that. As he's dying, he's still thinking
of others, he's still connecting people together and caring
after people. That, to me, really struck me in
a way that I've never heard before. So that
was impactful to me. I think, how can you
(08:24):
go with anything? But it is finished, you know,
that is like, so final. That is such, that
is the word we live by, is. It is
finished for us. We don't have to do the
work. We don't have to strive anymore. That to
me is just, I don't know. You live in
the. It is finished.
Yep.
Yeah. It is finished is great, because it's not
(08:45):
just finished for that moment of him dying. It's
not just finished of the 33 years he lived
on earth. It is finished for all of creation
leading up to that point, and then now for
all of eternity, it is finished. And so it's
like, it is finished is everything. Like, it's everlasting
(09:07):
to everlasting. It's not just the moment. And then
with him taking care of his mother, that was
such a strategic plan because he knows what's like,
he knows his family dynamic and what's going to
happen with his half brothers. He understands the disciples
aren't going to be around, and he's got one
that he's preserving to take care of his mother.
And John has other tasks to do, too. I
(09:28):
mean, he writes the gospel of John, then he's
going to see Jesus again and write down what
Jesus tells him for revelation. And so, like, the
strategy that Jesus uses to take care of Mary
and as a reflection of his strategy and plan
for me and how he's going to take care
of me, it reminded me of when Jesus healed
the paralyzed man who came down through the roof
(09:51):
and he forgave him of his sins first. And
that's the pattern of the statements that Jesus makes,
he forgave. He says, you're going to meet me
in paradise. And then he takes care of our
personal needs. He forgave that man of his sins.
And then he turned around and had a conversation
with the Pharisees and then came back to the
man and said, okay, now you're healed. Take up
your man walk. And so, like, that was really
(10:13):
powerful for me. But I think for me, back
to the question, the forgiveness of sins. Like, forgive
them for they know not what they do. The
fact that Jesus intercedes on my behalf to the
father in my sin is just amazing to me.
Like, he's seeking my salvation in a way that
(10:34):
I can't even comprehend. Like, when I'm in my
wrongdoings and in my sin, Jesus is interceding on
my behalf for the father to forgive me so
I can get back right with him. And like,
that, for me, that was just like, man, he
loves me even through my sin. And that's just
amazing.
Well, that moment is so sobering, too, for anybody
(10:54):
that's been hurt by someone else or have. Has
gotten to a place where it's like, I can't
forgive them. And I've had people tell me, like,
Brent, if you even knew what that person did
to me, you wouldn't be telling me that I'm
supposed to forgive them, because. No. And then Jesus
demonstrates it on the cross.
Like, I'm like, they crucified Jesus.
Forgive them. Like the guy that was whipping me
(11:16):
five minutes ago, the guy that drove the nail
in my hands.
Right.
Like, the crowd that's spitting on me. Forgive those
people.
Right. Like, while we were yet in sin.
Absolutely.
Yeah, that was. That'll mess with you.
Yeah.
Yeah, man. It's hard to pick. Pick a favorite.
But I like all those. I love what you
(11:37):
teased out, even about, you know, the woman. This
is. This is your son, son, this is your
mother. The fact that he chose the youngest of
his disciples, the fact that he chose the one
that was the only one that was gonna live,
it's like the rest of these guys, they're dead
(11:57):
in ten years.
They're not gonna make it.
But that guy, he's got five books. He's got
a right, you know, he's gonna end up on
the island of Patmos and.
Right.
He'll be all right. You know, he's got some
time, you know.
Yeah.
Mary will be long dead.
Gotta be out. He's gonna outlive Mary. Yeah.
All right. This is the one I'm gonna pick.
Yeah.
(12:17):
It's just a beautiful thing. I don't know, just
the way that God orchestrates everything.
Yeah.
I know you. You kind of struggle with one
the, you know, I'm thirst. I thirst. Yes. I
hate the idea that Jesus is, like, self fulfilling
a prophecy.
Yeah. It's the last prophecy that he needs to
fulfill. Of the 300 plus that he fulfilled, it's
like Jesus. You could have just left that one
(12:38):
out.
But I love that he didn't. Like, I love
that he didn't. And sure, yeah. It's like the
one thing that he had control over. Yeah. Whereas
everything else he can't really control. But even in
that, like, him saying, I thirst like, that doesn't
mean that they're gonna respond, right?
Absolutely.
The prophetic word that they're gonna give him vinegar
in that moment. It's still accurate. It still happens.
(13:01):
So I don't know. I think that that's even
for me, like, that one, even though you kind
of struggle with it.
Why did you say that?
Did he really have to, like, man, look, there's
still 299 plus, that he had no kind of
control over. It still took place. But I just
love the idea that our savior didn't leave anything
unfinished.
(13:21):
Right?
And so when he says. When he finally does
say, it is finished, like, it's. It's like, yeah,
he. He checked off every. Every box. He did
everything. He was.
There is no question.
Nothing left undone.
Right?
Like, it's. I don't know. There's just a beautiful
thing about that.
Yeah.
Yeah, man.
Good Friday.
Good Friday. I have to say, this might be
an unpopular opinion, but I feel like I love
(13:44):
Good Friday services more than I love the Easter
service. There's something so beautiful and intimate about it.
Intimacy of it, right?
Intimacy for me. I love Easter, and I, obviously,
we live in a resurrected work, right? God has
finished the thing. But there's something about. To me,
it's similar to, like, it's easy to say happy
(14:06):
birthday to somebody. It's really difficult to say, I'm
gonna go and bring you food while you're sick.
It's more intimate to live in that space with
someone versus to celebrate with someone. And so Easter
feels like the big thing we celebrate. But Good
Friday is that intimate moment that we enter into
(14:28):
spaces that only the closest people can connect inside
of. It's so relational that I just. Every good
Friday, it just. It hits me in a new
spot, in an intimate way, out of relationship to
the Father, that you're able to remember what Jesus
did to such a level and live in that
space for just a moment instead of living in
(14:50):
this celebration space that we love to live in.
Especially on Sundays as we go to church, we're
going to. I need my fill of good things
to live in that intimacy with God and with
Jesus to remember what they did. It's such a
reminder, even in our relationship with God, that he
wants all the emotion, all the deep spaces, not
(15:11):
just the shallow good stuff, but he wants you
to bring those intimate, deep, dark things to the
table in relationship that just. I don't know. Good
Friday doesn't me every time.
I'll join you in being unpopular, but I think
I'd even take it a step further. Easter becomes
about so many other things. So, like, it's. You
(15:32):
know, are the kids all dressed? Nice photo. What
are we doing for our Easter celebration? Yeah, are
we gonna have our Easter meal? And so it's
like. It becomes, like a cultural thing. It becomes,
you know, it's like Christmas takes time to recognize
we're celebrating the resurrection and all that, but it
seems like we take a moment within the day
(15:54):
to recognize what it's about. Whereas Good Friday, it's.
It's. There is no family dinner. No. Like, it's
just. This is about the cross, and we don't.
Man, this is controversial. I guess we don't corrupt
it.
Yeah.
With. With anything.
Right.
Whereas sometimes Sunday, you know, Easter Sunday can feel
a little bit corrupted outside the church, inside the
church, just kind of across the board. But Good
(16:16):
Friday is just. It is. There's no confusion. There's
no doubt of what. What it's all about. And
so, for me, that's. Yeah, yeah.
The stage was beautiful. The worship set was perfect.
I love how we ended it, and we didn't
say anything, and we just left out of the
auditorium, left out of the building in remembrance. Yeah.
And it had held that moment for us. Instead
(16:39):
of the, you know, talking to each other, finding
the person that, you know, you haven't seen in
a while or anything like that, it's just like,
no, I'm gonna stay in this moment until I
go home.
Yeah.
I think it took about ten minutes in the
lobby before somebody finally, like, laughed. And then other
people were like, oh, okay. But, no, I do.
I love the. That just quiet stillness, the intimacy
(17:02):
of it, just the somberness of it. And I
think that sometimes, you know, it's really easy for
us to go through a good Friday knowing that
Sunday is coming. But when I try and put
myself in the perspective of the disciples, like, Saturday.
Saturday was a dark day.
Yes, it was dark.
(17:23):
Is this. Do you feel like I was thinking
about this the other day. I felt like the
disciples probably felt like this was the most gaslit
experience. Like, I just got gaslit by Jesus. He
said this, like, I'm gonna conquer, and he's gone.
And we've given up everything in our lives for
this guy. I'm not even sure.
(17:44):
Yeah.
Like, what do we do now? That had to
feel.
That's why they go back fishing.
Crazy. I guess I better get back to what
I was doing.
And Jesus comes back and walks with them, and
they don't recognize them. And then when they break
the bread at the table, then their eyes are
open to him. And he's like, I told you
(18:04):
I was coming back. Like, this is prophesied. Like,
so, like, why were you so down tried these
past three days? Like, I don't understand, right?
It's like, have you ever watched a movie where,
like, they totally tell you everything, like, throughout the
movie, but if you're not paying attention to it,
you don't. Like, you get to the end of
the movie, you're like, you have to watch it
again. I feel like the disciples were, like, 100%.
(18:28):
That's what he meant when he said, you're gonna
destroy the temple and build.
A day later, Jesus is sitting there. Like, once
he's fully revealed to them.
He'S like, I told you this, yo. Y'all weren't
paying attention.
Like, what are you guys talking about?
Slap the prophet God.
Totally. But, I mean, can you imagine? These are
people who walked with Jesus every single day. And
(18:53):
just to think that we're, like, we're expecting people
to jump right in and believe. Like, this is
the way. Follow it. It takes a minute. Discipleship
takes a minute to follow and to understand and
to live in those. The, like, Jesus thought process.
Process. Right. That change of lifestyle takes a second
because you got it. Like, you gotta imagine these
(19:14):
disciples. It took them a lifetime of just learning,
walking with Jesus. Jesus leaves, and now I gotta
live it out even further. But even they had
their doubts. Even they denied Jesus.
Yep. That's actually one of my favorite. You know,
so there's a lot of, like, evidence as for
why we believe the Bible, why we believe it's
true. But one of the greatest evidence is how
(19:36):
horribly it portrays its own writers. Like, like, if.
If Peter is writing this story, is he gonna
deny Christ three times? Like, is he. Is he
gonna add in there? Like, yeah, and then. And
then Jesus called me Satan. Right, exactly. Like, if
you're making up the story, you do not include
the details that the gospels give us. Like, you
(19:59):
make yourself look like a hero, and instead the
gospel. Yeah. And it takes, these people doubted. They
questioned. They ran away in fear. They were constantly
in terror.
Exactly.
Never understood what Jesus was talking about when he's
talking about it.
Like, and it takes, like, for Peter's example, it
takes, like, Luke to point out his finer points.
When Peter's given his story to mark to write,
(20:21):
he doesn't even include some of the times that
Jesus actually said, on this rock, I'm gonna build
my church.
Like, yeah, Peter doesn't even include the good stuff.
Right? Yeah. Then that's what makes it more real.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It's crazy. All right, so that. That was good
Friday, but Easter did come.
Yes, it did.
It happened. And we got a chance to do
(20:43):
a lot on Easter Sunday. We celebrated salvations, we
celebrated baptisms. We closed out the series, really just
kind of summarized what we had been talking about
and just put it in simpler terms. Like, hey,
we're going to live like Jesus. But as we
kind of walk through Sunday, just wanted to kind
of get you guys take on a few different
(21:05):
things. One is the whole idea of Barabbas. So
that was the thing that hit me in preparation,
I think it was maybe a month ago. I
was like, I have no idea what I'm gonna
teach on Easter. I have no idea what I'm
gonna teach, like, as a pastor, as a preacher.
Like, Easter is. It's. It's the worst. It's the
best, but it's the worst. Cause it's like, everybody
(21:25):
has these expectations, but it, like, you have to
tell a story that everybody's heard. So it's like,
man, not to be like, oh, woe is me
or Brent, you know, such a hard job. But,
man, preaching on Easter, that's. That's a tough one.
Yeah.
But, um, it was. It was the Barabbas story
that. That just. It rocked me and just this
(21:48):
idea. And I had to. I had to do
a lot of research because I was like, I
don't want to say something that isn't true. Right.
But all the research that I did pointed to
this idea that. Yeah. That. That cross that Jesus
hung on because of the timing, because of how
quickly, because of everything.
Yeah.
Like, that cross was already prepared for a different
prisoner, right. Now, can we say with 100% certainty
(22:10):
it was Barabbas? Not with 100% certainty, but we're
pretty.
He was next in line to be crucified.
Yeah. He's the only other person.
Jesus was tried and crucified.
And there's speculation that. And there's speculation that the
other two thieves on the cross were, like, cohorts
with barabbas, like they were his friends. Like, there's.
(22:32):
There's. There's theory out there that those guys were
connected. So it was like, there was a plan
to crucify these three guys that were caught leading
this rebellion, and then they replaced one of them
with Jesus. For me, it's like, man, the literal
and the figurative coming together in that moment is
just so incredibly beautiful and powerful. And I love
(22:57):
it, and I hate it at the same time,
because I'm literally teaching a class on not replacing
Bible characters, biblical interpretation. Like, hey, don't do this.
And then God's like, go ahead and do it.
Just this one time.
Right?
This one time. This is what it's there for.
But I love changing out just the mentality of
self centered Christianity, which culturally, we want to live
(23:20):
in, putting ourselves where we belong, which is we
are not David. We're not all the greats, right?
Like, we are that guy, the one.
Who deserved, which is such a crazy thing that
we do because it's so selective. Like, we're David
when he's killing Goliath, but we're not David when
(23:41):
he's with Bathsheba.
Right, right.
Like, at that point, we switch to, like, maybe
Nathan. We're the ones coming in to tell David.
We're all, yeah, like, I would have seen. Yeah,
like, we're Peter when he's doing good stuff. We're
not Peter when he's denying Jesus.
Exactly.
We're so selective in who we are when we
(24:02):
are that person.
Everybody wants to be the hero of.
Their own story, and the Bible is about God
being the hero.
Right?
Not us.
So I can't go fleece God in any kind
of way, man.
There's so many things that are.
Just prove yourself to me, man.
People take that one. Like, that's. That's a horrible
one. Like, yeah, literally, you're. You're doing what Gideon
(24:25):
is chastised for doing.
Yes.
Like, this is bad that Gideon did it. God
acquiesce to it. Like, God had a plan, filled
it, but God wasn't happy with the idea of
Gideon putting out this fleece. Yeah. And I've talked
to so many christians are like, well, I'm just
putting out my fleece. I'm like, stop it. Yeah,
(24:47):
bring that fleece back in. That was. That was
not. We're going to talk about it tonight in
the class I'm teaching. Like, there's prescriptive texts and
there's descriptive text. So, like, don't take something that
somebody did in the Bible and all of a
sudden be like, oh, that's what I'm supposed to
do. Because, no, you're not supposed. Supposed to be
watching people bathe on top of your roof. No,
you're not supposed to be Samson. Like, Samson was
(25:09):
a horrible person. I think because we glamorize, like,
Samson's story for kids that you grow up being
like, man, I want to be like Samson when
I grow up. Big, strong man. You realize that
his whole story is about how physically strong he
was and how emotionally and spiritually weak.
He was right.
It's his weakness that is the highlight of the
(25:30):
story.
He was set apart from birth and then broke
every rule.
Every single rule. Like, every single rules. Like, in
one moment, he eats something he's not supposed to
eat, touches something on his way to get with
a woman, that he's not supposed to be all
(25:50):
bad. Just all of it. Just all of it.
And then people are like, yeah, but he killed,
you know, all these people with the jawbone of
a donkey. He's not supposed to touch anything. He's
not supposed to be touching the weapon he's using.
Like, but is that not the ultimate example from
Easter to Samson's jawbone?
It's the ultimate example, though, of us wanting to
be the hero of our own story. He said,
(26:11):
oh, I've got this strength. I can do it.
Even in worship, I feel like we've just made.
We've. I feel like my husband and I, as
we lead worship, are always thinking about how not
to keep worship in a self centered space.
Right?
Because culturally, we just want to live in this.
Like, God is my champion. He's gonna make everything
(26:32):
great. I'm gonna live a great life. And let's
sing about that versus. Jesus is the hero of
every story, and he's where I center, and if
he's magnified in me, it means I have to
lay myself down. It's so hard to live that
life, even in worship, in the way we read
the word. I just thought that was such a
(26:53):
great correction, a quick but great correction in the
Easter message, which is, it's about Jesus. It's not
about you.
And you would think that on Easter, that would
be, like, the easiest moment to be like, hey,
this is about Jesus. But, man, it's still. It's
tough. One of the best purchases I ever made,
(27:13):
this is years ago, I bought. It's called the
Jesus centered Bible. So it's a study Bible, but
all of the study notes from Genesis all the
way through revelation, all of it is just about
Jesus. So, like, in creation, it's like, okay, where's
Jesus?
Yeah, absolutely.
And, you know the headings before stuff and, like,
the little footnotes, everything is just. It's just Jesus
(27:34):
centered. And, man, it's so great. Like, I actually
have that Bible on my desk in the office
right now because I'll still, like, I'll be reading
something. I'll be like, let me. Man, I don't.
I don't know if I can see.
Jesus in this, right?
I'll flip to it, and it's like.
Oh, there he is.
There he is. Like, there he is. So, yeah,
highly recommend Jesus centered Bible. And it definitely gets
you out of this, making yourself the center of
(27:56):
the story and realize that, man, even when it's
a story about David, it's actually a story about
Jesus.
Right, right.
Yeah. And so it's just a really cool little.
But when you first brought up Barabbas and, you
know, to the pastors, when you're going over the
sermon, the thing that got me, it hit me
right away. What was Barabbas thinking, man? Cause it's
(28:18):
like he's getting ready to die. Like, they start
torturing Jesus that night.
Yeah.
And they're probably gonna start with him that night.
And he, you know, comes out of the cell
with the guards, and he's. He's probably got all
kinds of anxiety.
He's so sure.
Yeah, he's just like, this is it. I'm gonna
suffer through this pain and torture, and then I'm
(28:39):
gonna die, and that's gonna be the end of
my life. And that's it. Like, he is ultimately
damned. Like, he. Yeah, he has no hope at
all. He doesn't know what's going on outside. He
probably doesn't know who Jesus is, or I've heard
of Jesus, but doesn't know what's going on with
Jesus trial at the moment. Like, he just. He
is completely hopeless and has no clue of how
(29:01):
God is orchestrating his release through love and how
Jesus is going to replace him. And he gets
the chains taken off of him, and he's probably
wondering, like, what's going on? And he goes outside,
and then there's another, you know, thought that may
have come to his head. Like, he turns around
and says, what? I got released because this guy's
(29:21):
going to be crucified. But he didn't do anything.
Like the two thieves on the cross. The one
thief said, no, we're justified. Like, this punishment is
justified because of what we did. And Barabbas probably
had the same thought. Like, this guy's innocent. And
I don't know if that took over him being
appreciative of him being set free, but I'm sure
(29:44):
he had the moment, like, no, that's supposed to
be me.
Yeah, yeah. If anybody could look up at the
cross and see themselves, like, to see this, the.
This person is dying for me, it was Barabbas.
Right, right.
And. And, man, it's been so long since I
saw it, but I I want to say passion
of the Christ. Like, that was one of the
the movie. Like, that was one of the things
that they did horribly, from what I remember, like,
(30:06):
when they bring out Barabbas, like, he's, like, smiling
and laughing and, like, from what I remember, he's.
He's like. And maybe I need to watch it
again. But, like, from what I remember, he's got
this, like, arrogance about it. You did not know.
I'm sorry. There was no criminal that had arrogance.
Absolutely.
Coming out, especially roman prison.
(30:29):
Yeah.
No, no, no. You are. You are guilty of
leading an insurrection against Caesar.
Right.
No, you are not. You are not happy. You
are not excited. You are not laughing.
Right.
Like, and maybe I got the movie wrong, but
there was. There was one, I think it was
passion of the Christ, where, like, they bring him
out and he's, like, mocking and stuff, and it's
like, no, that. Yeah, missed that one. Like, that
(30:50):
dude was probably peeing his pants. Like. Like, literally,
like, it's just. There's no way around that. Crucifixion
was ugly.
Yeah.
The realization did it enough. You knew what was
coming.
Oh, yeah. Because people were being crucified all the
time. Like, they were being crucified in the streets
and in the roads leading from one place to
the next. So you knew what the punishment was
(31:12):
for disrupting the peace that Rome had placed wherever
they were.
Yeah.
It was a deterrent. It was like, hey, this
is what happens when you do this thing.
Right?
Which I think it's so poignant, kind of blending
Good Friday and Easter here. But you talked about
the timing of the crucifixion, the fact that we
had a crucifixion versus if Jesus came today.
(31:34):
Yeah. It's.
There's some real differences in the way that would
have taken place.
Yeah, yeah.
But to die on a cross in that day.
Yeah.
Yikes.
Yeah.
God knew what he was doing.
Yeah.
The timing is when he placed Jesus in that
time. Yeah. You know exactly what he was doing.
Yeah. I get people asking all the time, like,
why did. Why did Jesus come when he came?
(31:55):
Why didn't he come, you know, when there were
cell phone cameras and stuff? Like, it's like, man,
it's an interesting thought process to go through, but,
like, I think that God orchestrated that moment for
a reason. Like, even. Even for the gospel to
be able to spread from that moment moving forward.
The roads that Rome had been adamantly building, the
connection to other places. Like, it was like, no,
(32:17):
this is like the perfect moment.
Paul's in prison in Rome, where all of the
news of the world comes from. And so Luke
is able to write this beautiful story about Christianity,
and it gets spread out throughout the entire region
and all over the world. Like, it's strategic, and
it's perfect.
Yep, that's right. Beautiful.
(32:38):
Yeah.
All right, so we got a couple of minutes
left. So the. The whole idea, really, for the
series was to become more like Jesus. Ultimately, it's
because of the cross and the empty tomb that
we even have the ability to live like Jesus,
because, really, I think that's the thing that people
need to take away is Old Testament. You are
(32:58):
still expected to live like Jesus, but you didn't
have the example to follow, and you didn't have
the power of the Holy Spirit in order to
do it. So all you see from genesis through
Malachi is failure. It's just over and over again.
Like, you're not good enough. Even the best amongst
(33:19):
us, Abraham, man of great faith, says his wife
is his sister because he's afraid. That's not faith.
That's fear. Noah has this great moment, then he
gets drunk and, you know, passes out naked in
front of his kids. Like, it's like, okay. Like,
like, it's like every character, practical as it gets,
(33:40):
but it's like every character, like, oh, this is
the good one. Just keep reading. He's not. And
so then we get to Jesus and his teachings,
the example he lays out, and then his death
and his resurrection. I love, you know, Eugene Peterson's
paraphrase where he talks about, you know, Jesus brought
(34:01):
sin down with him and then brought God down
to us. So, like, sin no longer has the
hold that it used to have. And so, really,
for me, I think living like Jesus, you can't
talk about living like Jesus and not talk about
sin. And if there was one compliment that I
(34:21):
got more than any other, that felt weird was
how many people thank me for talking about sin
on Easter Sunday, and I'm like, that's the whole
story. That shouldn't be, you know, praiseworthy. That's. That's
just like, how do you not, like, talk about
sin? But I think that in our. In our
culture, and maybe it's this self centered Christianity that
(34:42):
we have. Like, we don't like to look at
ourselves as sinful, or we don't like.
To look at guilt, and we all have sin
falls. In short, all. Didn't say many is sinful.
Right?
But. And it's in its. In our endeavors to
live like Jesus that we have to actually say
no to things. And that's. I think that's what
becomes the hardest part, is you know, we want
(35:02):
to do the stuff that we like.
Right?
Like, hey, I enjoy this.
Absolutely.
You know, Jesus forgives me. You know, it's. What
does Paul say? You know, should we keep on
sinning.
So that grace made it better?
No, of course.
Not at all.
Like, if Brent was paraphrasing that, it would be.
No, you idiot. Like, no. Like, we have to
(35:24):
take a stance against sin that, hey, if the
Bible says this is not good, don't try and
justify it. And I see that happen so often
where christians today will either justify the sin in
their life or completely ignore it. Like, just turn
a blind eye and say, oh, well, you know,
I'm not going to deal with that thing because
I got Jesus.
And, you know, I think what we tend to
(35:46):
do is that we don't call it sin. We
say, you know, if I have salvation or if
I become a Christian, then I lose the pleasures
of life. I lose the things that I like
to do. And it's like, okay, the pleasures of
life. You mean the joy that you have in
Christ Jesus, who gives you peace and comfort and,
like, you mean that pleasure? Like, no, no, no.
Other pleasures. Oh, you mean sin. So let's just
(36:09):
call it what it is, right?
Yeah, I think we need to get to a
place where we call sense. Yeah.
And it's like, okay, so where. What exactly are
you talking about? Because, like, all of my joy
and pleasure in my life comes from Christ. So
if there's anything else outside of that, it's sin.
And so I got to call it what it
is. And it's like, no, I can't mess around
(36:29):
with it. It is what it is.
And, man, I heard somebody say when I was.
I was probably, like, 18 and this stuck with
me, but he said, why be entertained by something
Jesus died to save you from?
Yeah.
And, man, there have been times when I'm like,
I'm watching a movie and, like, all of a
sudden, like, the whole story of the movie is,
is about adultery, basically. It's like, you know, somebody's
having an affair and there's drama around it and
stuff. And I'm sitting there going, I'm being entertained
(36:51):
by literally something that Jesus went on across to
save me from. Let me turn that off.
Right, exactly.
But how often do we actually turn it off?
How often do we actually say, you know what?
Jesus died an agonizing, horrible death because of sin.
And here I am being entertained and, and finding
pleasure in the thing that killed Jesus.
(37:14):
And I love how we had the mirrors all
over the church and the mirrors on stage, it's
like I have to really reflect on my life
and who I am and say, am I living
like Jesus? And there's a realization that, okay, I'm
not going to be able to live like Jesus
100%, but my pursuit to be holy, my pursuit
(37:36):
for righteousness, my pursuit for salvation, you know, I
need to be filled every day. You know, the
greek term for being filled or being saved is
continuous. It's, I have to be being saved every
single day. I have to be filled with the
spirit every single day. And so I have to
(37:57):
constantly reflect on, okay, is today the day that
I'm pursuing to be like Christ? And so it's
the, the effort to pursue being like him that
gets me. It's, it's, you know, I'm not gonna
be like Christ because we've all sinned, but it's
that pursuit for holiness and right and righteousness.
Yeah. It is a goal that we will never
(38:18):
fully achieve on this side of heaven. But I
think some people will look at that and say,
well, then why even try? And I think that's
just the, the worst possible take you can have
on it. It's like, look, I know that I'm
not gonna be perfect, but, man, I'm gonna keep
trying. I'm gonna keep trying to be better today
than I was yesterday.
(38:38):
But these are the words that make our salvation
complete.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
And the scripture says, delight in the Lord, and
he will give you the desires of your heart.
And I think we can, as that self centered
reading can spin that to say what I've wanted
all my life, I'm gonna get that because I
love God. And what I actually think he's saying
(39:01):
is, I will change the desires of your heart
so that you desire the things that you should
desire when you delight in me. And I think
that is the way that we walk with Jesus,
is we delight in the Lord, and he gives.
Us and our desires to be more like him.
And here's the fun thing about that verse. So
(39:23):
delight in the Lord, and he'll give you the
desires of your heart. Well, if you're delighting in
the Lord, where are your desires?
In the Lord.
In the Lord, and it's a delight.
So, like the person that's like, man, I'm gonna
delight myself in the Lord so that I get
a Ferrari.
This is the first part.
You're delighting yourself in the Ferrari. So you've already
broken the first part of this thing. If you
(39:46):
delight in the Lord, then that's where your heart
is. That's where your desire is.
That's it. It's about the delight. Taste and see
that the Lord is good. It's a good thing.
And we want to elevate the things that we
were brought out of and say, well, this was
a delight to me then, but now you have
a new thing to delight in and to have
(40:07):
joy from, and there's something way less temporary to
lean into that will sustain you. And we just
missed that part, thinking, all I've known is this
side of the things that I really loved to
do before. But there is joy, there is goodness,
there's delight in the Lord. It's just you gotta
(40:28):
lean in all the way. And if you don't,
you're gonna feel like, well, yeah, what am I?
This was fun, too.
And if you ever tasted and saw that, man,
God's goodness is greater than anything that you can
ever experience on earth. And I mean, everything, you
can experience everything, it pales in comparison to the
(40:51):
goodness of God in our lives. And so the
more that we taste, the more that we delight.
We get to experience that, and we don't have
a desire to do anything else.
Yeah.
So for somebody listening right now, that's like, okay,
I've got. I've got some sin in my life.
That's. It's not just like, a mistake I made
once or twice or. But, like, there's this habitual,
repetitive. I know this thing is sin. I keep
(41:13):
doing it, whatever, whatever that may be. What, what
advice would you guys have for that person? Like,
how do you actually get free of that sin?
Yeah. For me, it's the more intimate moments I
have with God, the closer I get to him.
When I draw near to him, he draws near
to me. And the taste for sin, the temptation
(41:36):
may always be there for the rest of my
life, but my desire to go to it. I
love how Jesus changes my trajectory every time he
sees me veering off. And it could happen in
a whisper, it could happen in tragedy, affliction. He
gets my attention and gets me back on track,
(41:56):
and I lose the taste for some of the
things that I used to have a desire for.
The more that I'm in his presence. And it
sounds crazy, but I'm telling you, if you just
try it, if you get up in the morning
and dedicate yourself to prayer, you get into the
word, you find a good book to read about
Christ. Like, the more that you pursue him, the
(42:20):
less of the world you have a desire for,
and you won't be able to overcome sin in
yourself. If that was the case, we wouldn't need
resurrection Sunday. We wouldn't need Christ to come to
redeem us. But the more that we focus on
Christ and make him a part of our life,
man, the Holy Spirit works in getting rid of
the taste for the things of the world.
(42:41):
That's right.
That's good.
I think that for me, it's the intimacy with
the Lord, it's the intimacy with the father that
when you walk in his presence. No one I
know has ever walked into the presence of the
Lord and walked away. Not changed, untransformed. That never
happened. When you walk with the Holy Spirit, when
(43:01):
you walk in the presence of the Lord, when
you live a lifestyle of worship, you're entering into
the presence, honoring him, laying yourself down, it changes
you from within. To me, it would be the
equivalent of me saying, I'm going to start eating
more vegetables and eating less sugar. Over time, you're
going to taste sugar in everything that you used
to eat. You're going to go, my chicken nuggets
(43:22):
have sugar in them. I didn't even know there
was sugar here, because you don't toothpaste.
Like, my toothpaste is so sweet.
Because you got used to the good thing and
you took out the one thing that you feel
like maybe I shouldn't have as much of that.
And your taste changes. You start to recognize more
where things are leading you deeper into sin. I
(43:45):
didn't taste that sugar here before.
Yes. And you would fall away.
There's a little bit there. And the Lord just
exposes more and more, even in the word he
says. The scripture says, I've hidden your word in
my heart that I might not sin against you.
When we continue to hide the word, and that
means it's deep. When it's hidden, it's deep in
(44:06):
there. It comes up, and it exposes things immediately
so that we can say, let me not eat
this little sugary something or other, because it's growing
my taste for the wrong thing.
Right, right.
Let me keep seeking after the good things and
eating that.
Yeah. Yeah.
Wow. That's good.
That's real good. There's this idea that you become
(44:27):
what you focus on. And so if we're gonna
become like Jesus, then we're focusing on Jesus, right.
When you focus on sin, you commit sin. Like,
it. It's. It's that whole, you know, joke about,
you know, don't think about a pink elephant. Immediately
gonna be thinking about it.
Right.
So if your thoughts are always on sinful things,
(44:49):
if you're if you're surrounded by the sinful things,
if you're surrounded by people that draw you to
sinful things, then, yeah, that's what you're gonna do.
When. When you surround yourself with Christ, you become
more like him.
Right.
And so where's your focus? And it's, you know,
our goal is not necessarily, and I. Maybe I
got an ugly way to phrase this or a
(45:10):
better way to phrase this, but if your focus
is in. I'm not gonna sin. I'm not gonna
sin. I don't wanna sin. I don't wanna sin.
I don't wanna sin. You're still thinking about sin
all the time. But if your thought process is,
I wanna be like Christ, I wanna be as
close to Jesus as I can, then you're gonna
do things that are gonna lead you towards him.
When you're being led towards Christ, guess what? You're
being led away from sin.
(45:31):
Yes, absolutely.
Totally different.
But that's the process.
Yeah.
Good stuff. Well, this is a great conversation, guys.
We made it.
Yeah. Hey, next week, I don't know who's gonna
be on the show with me, but next week
is gonna be interesting because we're. We're doing a
hot seat Q and a. Yeah. They're just gonna
(45:51):
throw questions at me. And what I would say
is Sunday is the kind of Sunday where you
decide whether or not CLC is your church. Because
if you sabotage, if you got a stance in
a certain way, and you're like, maybe ClC feels
that way, maybe they don't, you're gonna find out.
Yeah. Just ask the question.
(46:12):
We're not gonna apologize.
No, no, no. I'm just gonna give you straight.
It is what it is.
Truth and love. We did that as a series,
right?
Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, and there's some things
I may be wrong about, but, you.
Know, the holy spirit will be there.
That's right.
And I'll be honest, I'll be like, hey, you
know what? I don't know. Or, hey, you know
what? I'm still developing my views on that because
(46:33):
there's room for all of us to grow and
learn. But Sunday's gonna be fun. And then podcast
afterwards should be. We'll clean up some stuff, maybe,
hopefully.
You mean the Bible's not black and white?
No, it's not a science.
It's an art.
It is. It is an art and a science
in interpreting scripture. But there's the interpretation. It can
vary depending on lot of factors. Gotta. We gotta
(46:55):
bridge the gaps, man. Everybody should just listen to
my biblical interpretation. Course.
You should do that as a series, right?
Man, we probably could.
It's not how many people we would lose.
If people find the Bible boring, then CLC is
probably not the truth.
No, we are only both.
You can stick with your, you know, celebrity pastor
(47:16):
on YouTube barely talks about the Bible. You know,
go for it. Sorry. Hey, I didn't name any
names. I just, you know, threw out a blanket
statement about being a conversational controversy in here. Stick
to the book, and we'll see you next time
between sermons. Nice.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations.
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
The Nikki Glaser Podcast
Every week comedian and infamous roaster Nikki Glaser provides a fun, fast-paced, and brutally honest look into current pop-culture and her own personal life.