Love on the Rock(s): Unanswered Questions

Episode Transcript
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Welcome to another exciting episode of the Between Sermons

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podcast I am hosting today. I am Joni Bishop,

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the digital ministry director here at CLC, and we

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have pastors Brent and Pastor Sol with us today.

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So we are in the middle now. We're in

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the middle because we just started a brand new

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series on relationships called.
Marriage on the rocks.
Love on the rocks.
Yes.
But it's kind of a play on words a
little bit because love on the rock. And the
s is kind of like in parentheses.
It is in parentheses.
Is that the thing that that is?
Yeah.
So the thought behind the. Thought behind the series.
Yeah, thought behind it is a lot of times,
people's relationships, they hit some rocky patches. Love on
the rocks, marriage on the rocks. It's kind of
a common saying. However, if we build our marriage,

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if we build our relationships on the rock of
scripture, the rock of Jesus, we've got a sure
foundation.
Absolutely.
So if you happen to catch yesterday's service, you'll
notice it was a little bit different. We had
A-Q-A with pastor Brent and Pastor soul. The beautiful,

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ever wonderful taisha Beasley led that conversation yesterday. And
so with part of that service, we invited the
congregation to submit their questions for Pastor Brent and
Pastor soul. Now, I have to say, between both
of the services, we received well over 100 questions.
That's a lot of questions.
So we also made the promise of, hey, any
questions we don't get to today, we will answer
on this week's episode of the Between Sermons podcast.
So welcome to the first eight hour welcome.
It is a marathon. Get ready. Make sure you
have snacks and drinks. You hydrate well, stretch beforehand,
take breaks.
It's important. Hit pause, come back later, thread your
legs.
Absolutely. So we've kind of pared down the list
a little bit. We've taken some of those questions
that are very similar. We've grouped them together, trying
to give it just a little bit better of
a flow for today. So I think we're going
to try to tackle 25 questions today. So buckle
up, get ready. The first category.
Before we do that, there are some questions that
we're going to hold off from other episodes because
there were some that were very single specific, like,
what do I do as a single person? How
do I handle this as a single person? And
in the last message of the series, we're actually
going to be interviewing some of our singles of
the church and getting their thoughts on those things,
and we'll do the same Q a with them.
And then there was a lot of questions that
I wouldn't say, like, sol and I aren't qualified
to answer, but that had such a counseling nature,
nature to them, kind of edge to them. And
we're actually, next week is going to be really
cool. We've actually got several couples from our marriage
counseling department that are going to be answering questions,
and so we're going to save some of those
questions for them. So that 100 questions, we answered
some on Sunday, then we paired down, got rid
of the duplicates, then we sent the singles questions
to the singles, sent the counseling questions to the
counselors, and we are left with a beautiful 25.
I love numbers that are just so easy to
manipulate.
Love it.
So today, yes. On today's episode, our first subject
up is marriage challenges and conflict resolution. So we
received a ton of questions in this category. I
do believe this was our most populated category of
questions. We had just a ton there. So these
questions were dealing with betrayal, growing apart, emotional or
physical cheating, biggest arguments, vulnerability. The list goes on
and on.
Fun stuff.
We're going to get started. Not with the easy
ones. We are going to just jump in there,
get going.
Do it. Let's do it.
All right, first question up that we have for
today. How can couples deal with anger and ensure
forgiveness before sleeping? So scripture tells us, hey, don't
go to bed angry.
Yeah.
What does that look like for you guys? What
should we be doing?
That is a great question for us to answer
because we struggled with that one early on. And
there was definitely some early days where we both
wanted to live that out. And so there was

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some very late nights. There was also some nights
where one of us would totally fall asleep and
the other one would just slap them and be
like, no, we got to.
Deal with this with love. It was more like
a love tag. Wake up.
Yeah, well, when you're dead asleep, that doesn't feel
very loving.
Feels a little jarring even now. Wake me up.
I don't feel love.
I think everybody can guess which one of us
was getting woken up. But, yeah, no, I think
that it really is a great principle. The pillow
is not your friend is probably the best advice
that I can give because a lot of times
people think, well, I'll go to bed, it'll be
fine in the morning. But it isn't because you
end up laying in bed. You're thinking about it.
You're running through all the arguments. You're thinking through,
what's your comeback going to be? If they say
this, and I'm going to say that, there's a
lot of times I would even notice my wife
would go to bed kind of angry, but a
couple of hours later, she was like, really angry.
And I'm like, I haven't even been in there.
I didn't even do anything. It really is better
to deal with stuff now. You're not always going
to be able to come to a great conclusion
to the fight unless you're staying up all night.
And I don't necessarily recommend that either. But I
feel like you've at least got to start the
conversation and get it to a place where it
says, okay, you've got your thing, I've got my
thing. Are we okay to go to bed on
this and we can talk more about it in
the morning? I think that's okay.
And I would say that it is not just
about nighttime. It is not about just going to
bed. I think that the principle should be really
to not just dwell on things for a long
time. Because if you got in an argument at
07:00 in the morning, it is not like you're
waiting until. Exactly. So I think that it is,
at least for me, the more time that I
have to start thinking about it and to try
to come up with an answer and start just
playing all of the crazy scenarios in my head.
The bigger the thing gets. We could be fighting
over something that it is not as big or
as important, it's still an argument. But the more
I think about it, the more then I explode
this thing. And it is not just about the
issue itself. But then I'm like, well, it's just
that he doesn't love me and he doesn't value
my opinion. And then it is just all of
these other things that start coming in my head.
How do we get from there exactly? He didn't
take out the trash to he doesn't love me.
Where did that happen exactly?
And I think that the more that you just
spend time thinking about it and dwelling about it,
the worse that your mind will get things. So
I think that it is not just about p.
M. And a. M. It is about how much
time you are giving in your head to meditate
on the issues. And I think that's a big
thing.
And I got a feeling we're going to come
back to this as the answer for a lot
of these conflict resolution things. It's just talk about
it. You've got to communicate. You've got to talk.
When there's these conflicts, when there's these fights, it's
because you didn't talk when you needed to. And
so don't let things simmer talk it out.
Yeah. And I think that I said it a
little bit yesterday, but really, I think that everything
comes to, you have to agree and work on
creating a space that is safe for you to
be able to express how you're feeling. Because if
every time that you say, hey, I don't feel
appreciated, or, hey, I don't feel like you're listening,
or, hey, I don't feel wherever it is that
you're not feeling. If every single time you're going
to have somebody to just be snarky or sarcastic
or you're going to find out that the answer
from that other person, it is a jab against
everything that you say, then that is never going
to create a culture of you can come to
me and talk to me about stuff. So I
think that you have to start establishing that culture
of I'm going to listen, I'm not just going
to judge, I'm not going to just trying to
explain myself in a way that is just excuses,
but to really receive this stuff, listen to where
you're coming from and try to figure out how
can we get past this. And I think that
that is going to help with a lot of
stuff. Because even with this specific question, how do
you pass the anger? It is by being able
to express how you're feeling. I think that it
is healthy to be able to say, I feel
angry, I feel disappointed. I feel wherever it is,
that it is big for you at the moment.
But if you don't feel safe or if you
don't feel comfortable being able to say those words,
then there's some work that you need to do
before you can really accomplish that. Don't go to
better angry.
I love it.
Yeah. So I don't even know if this is
a good answer for this question or maybe a
different question, but one of the saddest moments in
our marriage early on was we had just had
a fight. We had just kind of argued about
something. Can't even remember what it was. Probably something
silly. But soul looked at me and she said,
every time we argue, you make me feel like
I'm stupid. And I don't know if you remember
that moment, but I remember that moment vividly because
it was in that moment that it was like,
that is never the way I want my wife
to feel in expressing her thoughts and her opinions
to me, for me to turn around and make
her feel stupid. And I knew where that was
coming from back in the. I always had to
fight for everything. I'm the youngest. I had to
argue my way, and I had to win arguments,
and I realized that's what I was doing in
marriage. I was approaching it the same way, and
if I could tear her apart, it would tear
her argument apart. And it was such an eye
opening moment, and it broke something in me that
I was devastated that that was the feeling I
was leaving my wife with when we were having
disagreements. And so from that moment on, it was
like, okay, I need to fight differently. I need
to have conversation with my wife in a way
that uplifts her instead of tears her down.
Yeah.
So you want to yell at that moment, same
team, same team. Like, hey, we have the same
goals, we have the same purposes. We're working towards
the same thing here.
Absolutely. You are fighting for your spouse, you're not
fighting with your spouse. When you're just attacking each
other to figure out who's going to come at
the top on this argument, you are going at
it the wrong way.
Exactly. Once you get to that point of, hey,
I'm going to win this argument, you're already lost.
Absolutely. You have to fight for each other. The
goal of every single argument should be, how can
we get better out of this? This is how
I feel, but how can we overcome that? So
it is a different mindset, it's a different perspective
when you're arguing, knowing that you are going at
it, knowing that. Exactly what you said. We are
on the same team and we want the same
thing.
Yeah.
Wow.
So that was a fantastic answer to how couples
deal with anger and insure forgiveness before sleeping. So
I love that thought there of just not letting
things fester. So that can apply not to just
marriage relationships, but to so many relationships in life
in general. That's great. So what would your advice
be for spouses who feel like they are growing
apart?
Start doing the little things that you did in
the beginning. I think that there's a lot of
times that we feel like, well, I am already
married, I already have my spouse. It's okay for
me to just take a year off and I
don't have to do anything else to get closer
together. But the same thing that drew you to
that person still in there. So you just have
to allow yourself to rediscover all of the beautiful
things that your partner has. So if in the
beginning you start doing love notes, do love notes
again. If you were going out to the movies
and that was something that you both cherish, start
doing that again. I think that a lot of
times we grow apart because we're not intentional in
keeping that connection.
It's a keyword right there. Intentional.
Yeah. The only thing I would add to that
is two parts. One is the communication piece. We're
going to hit that so much, it's going to
be the dead horse in the conversation.
They're going to be, like, boring.
You got to communicate. If you feel like you're
drifting apart, if one of you feels like you're
drifting apart, bring it up. Bring it up in
a conversation, talk about it. Find out why you
feel that way. Because that's a feeling, but there's
a cause to it. So get to the root
of it. Get to the cause of it. And
then the second thing is you've got to spend
time together. It amazes me how little time some
couples actually spend together. And it's like, yeah, but
we're in the same house. And it's like, yeah,
but you're in your side of the house. They're
on their side of the house. Like you're roommates
at this point. You have kids together and so
you're still in the house. But yeah, you're absolutely
going to grow apart if you're not spending time
together. And so whatever that has to look like,
if that's date nights, if that's going grocery shopping
together, if that's doing dishes together, if that's taking
a day, and it's like, hey, this is the
day that we spend these hours together doing whatever
you like, whatever I like, whatever we want to
do together, just spend time together. Because I think
that's what happens, is they stop spending time together
and then that's when they feel that drift. And
it's like, I barely even know you anymore. It's
like, well, you haven't seen me all week, so,
yeah, probably.
Yeah. I think that it is also sharing. Sharing
what is in your heart. Like, the good, the
bad, the ugly. You had a bad day at
work. Share it. You had a great moment. You
found something that was funny. Share all of the
things that are in your heart. Because if you
are spending time together but with conversations that are
super superficial, like, how's the weather? Like, oh, I've
made dinner. That is stuff that it is not
substantial, then, of course, you're going to grow apart
because you don't really know what's happening inside of
that person's life. So I think that it is
not just being together in the same room and
talking about wherever, but it is also sharing your
dreams, your frustrations, the good, the bad, the ugly.
It is about getting to know that other person,
that it is going to make you feel like
we are in this together. And I actually know
who you are. And that is going to bring
you closer together. It has to, right?
Yeah, absolutely. And also, if you are that person
who feels like you're growing apart from your spouse,
taking that active role in sharing and being vulnerable
and opening up and allowing your spouse to see
those sides of you that maybe you don't feel
like are seen. So intentionality is key.
Yeah. And I love what you had said about
your dreams because I think that it's important to
continue dreaming together. I think that there's a lot
of conversations around dreams and plans and goals for
the future when you're dating, when you're newlyweds, and
then all of a sudden you get kind of
in that rut of life, and it's like, well,
I don't know what my dream is. I'm going
to retire at some point. But just having those
dream moments of, like, man, I would love for
our family to be able to say this or
do this or go here or find those moments
where you can have your dreams and then find
ways to support each other in those dreams of
saying, okay, this is something that's on your heart.
Let me help you pursue that. And I don't
know, in that mutual. We're both trying to achieve
something together, I think that forces people to come
together.
Yeah, absolutely. Builds that team, that team mentality.
Let's do it.
All right. So a little bit of a departure
of a question, but how should emotional or physical
infidelity be addressed in marriage?
With counseling immediately. Yeah, that's one of those that
I think next week we'll be able to address
even better. But infidelity of any kind is not
something you should ignore or just kind of sweep
under the rug. It's something that absolutely has to
be addressed head on. And infidelity can be so
much more than sex. And I think that's the
challenge that I think some people have, is that
they get comfortable with some relationships, some things that
are. It's unfaithfulness. When your spouse is supposed to
be the one that you go to for counsel,
for advice, for help, for camaraderie, for the dreams,
for all of that. If you replace that person
with someone else, you may not be sleeping with
them, but you've become unfaithful, and you're giving an
emotional connection. You're giving access to a side of
you, to somebody other than your spouse. That's not
good, that's not healthy. And so these things, man,
for me. The level of grace in those situations
is really low. It's like, hey, we're going to
figure this thing out. We're going to address this
quickly. And I think that you need a third
party to help you do that.
Yeah, I think that's a hard one because that
is so deep in the heart. That's what the
Bible says. Even if you look at a person
with loss, you already committed adultery in your heart.
It really is a matter of the heart. So
I think that there's a lot of healing that
needs to happen. There has to be a lot
of grace extended. Knowing that, I feel like sometimes
we say I would never, right? But it is
not until you are put in a situation that
you didn't expect to be so always knowing that
you have to extend grace. Because we're all humans
and we can all fall in so many different
ways to just work for that restoration and for
that marriage to be better again. Because I think
that it can happen. So I think that there's
healing, that it is available, but it is going
to take a lot. And it is not just
I am sorry and move on. It is going
to take work. It is going to take work
to restore trust. It is going to be work
to restore the level of intimacy that you have
with your spouse. I have not experienced it personally,
but I can only imagine the pain that you
have to walk through to get to the other
side. So I think that you have to extend
grace and you have to lean on God. You
have to hold on to God and say, God,
we are committed to make this work again. Show
us how to do it. And that's when the
third party definitely has to be a part of
it. Somebody that can give you the tools and
the resources to do it. But I will just
want to say that something that we have done
in order for us to try to stay above
all of that stuff is I never even have
a text conversation with somebody of the opposite sex,
just the two of us. I always have my
husband in it. Does he have to know anything
about this? Probably not, but he's still going to
be in the text thread, and nine out of
ten times I'll just tell him, hey, I need
to tell this to Pastor Asa. Can you text
him? It is something that sometimes feels like it's
a lot to ask for another person to do,
or it feels like it's just silly. It is
just a coworker. I just need to text them
real quick. But you never know what one conversation
can lead. So even if it'silly to you. It
might guard you in ways that you don't even
know.
Soul ends up in a lot of text message
groups and she's like, why did you text me?
It's like just safety net. I think that there's
something so vital about having that transparency with each
other. Like Sol and I, we don't just know
each other's passwords, we share the same password for
our phones and stuff. It's one of those where
it's crazy to me how people are so secretive
and all that with their cell phones, and it's
like, man, that's just silly to me. There needs
to be some transparency, some vulnerability. But yeah, back
to the actual question. I just want to make
sure that whoever is asking it knows that there
is hope that that relationship can be restored. I
know several pastors or several people in our church
that we've counseled through, and there's actually some that
are now on the other side of it. And
they're helping other couples heal from infidelity because they
know what it takes to heal from it because
they experienced it themselves. The thing that every single
one of them will say is it takes work.
It's not something that you can just sweep under
the rug. It's not something you can just say
sorry for. One time, trust was broken, and trust
being broken, it takes a long time to restore.
It takes a long time to bring it back.
It takes a lot of work. And it does
require a level of transparency and vulnerability that is
going to be uncomfortable, but that's the price you
pay for what you did.
Yeah. So healing and reconciliation is possible, but it
is a process.
It takes work.
And recognizing that you're going to have to put
some work in, probably establish some new boundaries, but
it is possible.
Yeah. And it's worth it, right?
It is worth it. Yeah, absolutely.
100%.
Yeah. So kind of leading out of that, what
would you say what circumstances might be considered acceptable
to divorce in a christian context?
Yeah. So in a christian context, there's what's called
the four a's. I am 100% on board with
three of the four a's. The fourth a, I'm
kind of in a nebulous spot. And I don't
know if you're familiar with these or not. But
anyways, so it's adultery, abuse, abandonment, and then the
fourth one that I'm kind of on board with,
depending on how you define it, is addiction. And
so biblically speaking, abandonment and adultery clearly laid out
in scripture. If either of these things happen, divorce
is acceptable. And most likely, I don't know the
right thing in that moment, depending on circumstances, situation
and stuff, the abuse side of things. So there's
some passages that talk about things that God hates.
And in there, he talks about how he hates
divorce, but ties it into all of these hates
against violence. He hates it when the strong overpresses
other. I've got to find the scripture, but there's
several things that he lists out of things that
he hates, and it's all circulating around violence. And
so when there is abuse, when there is violence
against a spouse, I would make the argument that
it's clear grounds for divorce that would be acceptable
in a christian conversation. I would even stretch that
to say that that abuse doesn't even have to
be physical abuse because you can have violence against
somebody emotionally. Yes. And we've talked to somebody about
this here recently, that there was financial abuse happening
in the family. The husband was holding on to
the money in a way that it became abusive
against the wife. And if she wanted to be
able to purchase anything or do anything with the
money, there was hoops that he was requiring her
to jump through. And it was like, man, this
is a form of abuse. And so, yeah, for
me, those three, absolutely. The questionable one is the
addiction side. And sometimes that addiction can create abandonment.
So then it would be. Yeah, but other times,
that addiction, man, that person needs you in their
life to help you through it so much that
to leave them in that moment. I get it.
But, man, that sucks. And so for me, that's
the gray one. That's the gray area, because I
know some people that have gone through addiction issues,
and because the spouse stayed in, the husband was
able to, or whoever was that was in the
addiction was able to find recovery. And if that
person had left them, almost guaranteed there would have
been self harm or there would have been something
else drastic that would have added to the issue.
And so, yeah, it's a hard place to be
in. I would say that in any of those
cases, you should not be taking advice from a
podcast on what to do. I think with all
of those, you need to actually have a conversation
face to face with your pastor and with.
A counselor, with somebody that will know your specific
situation. It's hard because for us as pastors, the
thing that we will like the most is to
see marriages be restored and thriving, to see broken
relationships being just brought together by God and just
see the miraculous happen. But I understand that there's
times that that is not a possibility in the
moment. So it is hard. It is hard. I
had a situation with a person that I love
very much, and this person had already tried to
commit suicide twice because of being in this marriage.
And she was telling me, I know what the
Bible says about marriage and none of that is
happening in my marriage, but I just can't be
here anymore. So she had already tried to kill
herself twice. So it was one of those that
is like, if I divorce, will God be mad
at me? And it was one of those things
that I had to look at her and say,
I think that he will care more about you
staying alive. You never know what is happening. So
don't just make well, they said this in the
podcast, so I am good to go. Really evaluate
where your relationship is. Is there any glimmer of
hope that you can say, if we really work
on this, we can make it on the other
side? And if you can work on it, I
believe that your relationship is worth fighting for. Absolutely.
I think that it really should be like the
last resort.
Yeah. The world is way too fast to jump
to divorce, and sadly, I think that the christian
world is not that much better looking at stats.
Right? It seems a little scary, to be honest.
So, yeah, as a pastor, my hope, my goal
for every marriage is that until death do us
part is legit. It's real. But as somebody that's
sat with people that are hurting, there have been
conversations that I've had with people where I've said,
I think that you guys need.
To divorce, or at least I pray.
For a little bit. Right. And that honestly, as
a pastor, that is the hardest conversation. That's the
hardest thing for me to say. To know God
hates divorce, to know that this is destroying something
beautiful. And yet to see people that are in
a place where it's like that really is the
only way out. And so, yeah, I hate divorce.
I don't want anybody listening to this to say,
all right, let's go get divorced. There are exceptions
to the rule, but the vast majority of people
are not the exception. The rule is there for
a reason. Don't get divorced.
Makes sense.
These are so heavy.
I know. So I told you we were starting
off with the heavy hitting ones. We're starting off
with the heavy hitting ones. Hopefully we'll make it
a little bit easier as we go on. So,
not letting up yet, though. How can you forgive
a spouse who is unsupportive during significant life events?
Man.
So I'll give a little bit of context behind
the question that I believe this is referencing. So
a woman submitted a question saying she recently had
a baby and her husband has not been supportive
since she has had the baby. So she's not
really sure how to forgive him and how to
move forward in this. And it sounded like from
the way the question was worded that this isn't
the only instance that she's seen that.
Yeah. Okay.
So I'll do so sorry for what you're going
through.
Yeah. Thank you, soul, for being the loving response,
because I'm going to give the pastoral response. So
two things. One, it's the dead horse. You got
to communicate. You've got to talk this out. You
can't let him stay in the dark on what
you're feeling. And so if you're feeling like he's
abandoned you, if he's not supportive in this, if
he's not carrying his weight, then you absolutely need
to talk it through for the guy. If he
happens to be listening. Dude, man up. You take
responsibility. It is not her job to raise the
child. It's your job together. It's not her job
to change the diapers. It's your job together. Like,
just figure this thing out, but stop being a
deadbeat. And that's the harsh pastoral thing. Now, on
the other side of that, how do you forgive
him when he's doing that? The Bible just tells
you to forgive. It doesn't tell you to forgive
if.
Yes.
And so his side of this actually has no
bearing on your responsibility to forgive. And that is
the suckiest thing about forgiveness because it really is
hard, and it's hard on the Christian to be
in a place where this person does not deserve
your forgiveness. And if this situation is as extreme
as it seems or sounds, then they don't deserve
forgiveness in this, but they're deserving of forgiveness. And
your giving of forgiveness and our call to forgive,
they're two separate things. And so we forgive because
Christ forgave us. We forgive because scripture tells us
we must forgive if we are going to be
forgiven. In fact, the Bible says several times, like,
if you've got an issue with somebody, don't even
worship me. That's what we have to understand of
that text. It says, if you're coming to bring
your offering and you realize you have something against
a brother, leave your offering right there and go
and make amends. Like, go and forgive that situation.
You have to understand that offering, that's an act
of worship, which is the highest thing that we
can do to God on this earth, is to
worship him. And he's saying, I don't even want
your worship, if you're not in forgiveness with others.
And so for God to say, don't worship me
until you figure out this forgiveness thing, that's like,
it matters. That's a big deal. That's heavy. And
so, yeah, the command, the instruction for you is
to forgive. It's not up to him to do
something first. Our forgiveness is the first response, and
that's not easy. And I don't know that I
have great advice for how to do that. I
think the best advice I can have, it's what
I've done, is I just think about how much
God has forgiven me and how much I didn't
deserve it, and then I reciprocate that to others.
There was a situation in my life where somebody
was just a jerk to me and I was
ready to tear them a new one. And it
was like the Holy Spirit was like, I need
you to go and forgive them. And I was
like, no, they need to come and forgive me.
The Holy Spirit. You're in the wrong person right
now. You're speaking to the wrong mind. You're supposed
to be telling that guy to come and forgive
me.
And Holy Spirit was mean.
Yeah. To come and apologize to me. And it
was, no, no, Brent, you need to go. You
need to tell that guy you're sorry. I'm like,
but I didn't do anything wrong. I'm not the
sorry one. And, yeah, it was a rough situation.
And I will say that on the other side
of the coin, make sure that you are looking
at the full picture. Because sometimes our feelings are
not true. And you might not be feeling supported
because you were expecting something specific, but in reality,
there's some support there or some effort. I'm not
saying that you're in the wrong or anything. I'm
just saying, evaluate the whole thing. Because sometimes the
way that we feel and the reality are two
different things. So look at the whole picture. Are
they actually trying to put some effort that you
have not accounted for just because you were already
on ten and they started to try to do
something and you're like, no, it's too late. I
don't want your help anymore. Because when I wanted
it, you were in there. Look at all of
those things. Because sometimes we just tend to grab
our feelings and run with them and don't look
at the things that have been done along the
way. Don't just make a blank statement without actually
looking at everything. And it may be that you
are 100% correct, but you might look and say,
well, they kind of tried over here. And they
kind of tried over there, and maybe I was
the one. There were a lot of times that
I was like, nobody's helping me around the house,
and they leave me all of the work. And
I realized that every single time that they were
trying to help, I was like, well, not like
that. I'm going to have to redo it anyway,
so just stop touching it. And then I was
the one that pushed them to not do anything
and then complain about the fact that they are
not doing anything.
You're speaking from experience.
Yes. So it could be that that's where you
are at the moment that when the support was
trying to come, you were saying no. And when
they put their hands off, you're like, nobody's doing
anything to help me. It could be that. So
look at the whole picture and see if there's
anything that you could have done better, communicated better,
or just. Even just accepted and just said, okay.
Okay, they tried.
Thank you for trying. Yeah, no, I think that's
beautiful example from our own marriage, where there's been
a lot of times when soul's been upset at
me for not doing stuff. And it's like, but
I tried to, and you told me I did
it.
Wrong, and then I kicked you off.
And then you told me to leave and stop.
And I'm like, but no, seriously, as a Guy,
there are times when I want to help, but
I don't know how. I don't know if it's
the way my brain works, the way my eyes
work or something. There have been times when soul's
like, can you just clean up downstairs? I'm like,
yeah, sure, no problem. And I look around the
house, and I'm like, it's clean. Like, all the
stuff's put away. Like, what is she wanting me
to do? And so I have to go back
to her and be like, okay, so I'm not
trying to get out of the job. But when
you say, can you clean up downstairs? What do
you mean by that? And then she'll come down.
She'll be like, okay, you need a vacuum. You
need a mop. You need to wipe down that
table. You need to put away those things. You
need to wash those dishes. And I'm like, oh,
wow, there's a lot of stuff to do down
here. But the first time I looked, I promise
to God, I didn't see any of those things
as being needed to be done. It wasn't the
way my brain processed the moment. And so soul
has kind of learned over the years that she
needs to give me specific instructions, and I love
her for it.
Yeah.
It sounds to me like communication keeps coming up.
So communication. Communication. Also communication. A lot of times,
the answer to.
The next 22 questions.
Communication. Get ready for it. Hold on. Communication.
We're still going to take 1 hour.
No. As you guys are talking about that, it
just makes me think about how so many conflicts,
even, like, looking at my own relationship. So Bret
and I have been married. We're going on 20
years this June, which is insane because I'm not
old enough to be married for 20 years.
You have a college student as a child.
This is insanity. Insanity. So it just makes me
think about how many times we've had conflict and
we've just butted heads. And Bret's intentions are good,
but I come out of it frustrated, but realizing
that it's that unmet expectation. It's that expectation that
I never communicated. And he's trying in his own
way, but it's not what is speaking to me.
So I'll get frustrated about it, but kind of
taking that step back, putting the ego to the
side and saying, okay, what were your intentions? I
see that you wanted to try to help. It
didn't land, but I'm going to appreciate you anyway.
It's just a principle of life. It's like if
somebody doesn't do the thing that you wanted them
to do the way you wanted them to do
it, you got to talk through it, give them
clear instructions. It's like if you're a boss and
you have an employee that doesn't do their job
the right way, are you just going to get
mad that they didn't do the job right the
way, or are you going to actually show them
how to do the job? And then it took
you 30 extra minutes that day, but now every
time you tell your husband to fold the laundry,
they know how to fold it. Do I know
how to know?
You have to buy, like, the little.
You got a t shirt folder?
No. Well, like a manual one. Like, not like
a fancy one or anything, but yeah, it's like
the board thing. And I put it down and
I fold the things, and it flips.
Are they so crisp? Are they so crisp?
So excited.
Listen, I don't need to use the thing. I
just go like this, and my measures fold perfectly.
Judgment. And I watch the cool TikTok videos or
Instagram videos or whatever where guy would grab the
corner, in the corner and twist and pull and
flip, and it's like. That's literally like he's Chris
angel. Doing magic tricks.
I can fold the shirt.
What I'm hearing is we'll have the affiliate link
for the product on Amazon in the show notes.
Like the meat masher.
The meat masher.
If you've been around for a while.
We just resorted all of her clothes. And I
used it like crazy and judged me the entire
time. But I stand by it. It was a
great purchase. It was like $5.
Oh, hey, we'll get that in the show notes
for you. All right, next question. What are effective
ways to resolve significant arguments in a relationship without
things escalating?
Talk about it.
Like communication.
I will say talk. Yeah, talk about it, but
calmly.
Yeah.
I think that sometimes we are talking with all
of the feelings out, and that's when you start
raising your voice, and that's when you start getting
very animated. And that's when all of this.
But I'm always animated. Yeah.
But there's different levels of animation.
Things happen.
But, yeah, I think that it is about talking
about stuff, calmly, being able to really look at
the stuff for what it is. Because when you
are hot headed and you are going into this
conversation hot headed, what you are addressing is your
feelings. You're not addressing the actual issue.
I'm sorry, say it again.
Seriously. When you are just hotheaded, you are addressing
your feelings. You are just saying all of these
things out of our emotion. And what you are
really talking about is how frustrated and how angry
and how this. But you're not really talking about
the issue itself.
That's good.
So when you are calm, when you are able
to kind of count to ten, just count to
ten and then be able to actually address the
issue, then you will know that there is a
thing, that your spouse is not the enemy, that
it is not about the emotions. The emotions aside,
like, however I feel about this, it's going to
be here for a moment. Let's actually figure out
the issue that it keeps coming up or that
it is making this relationship struggle. Let's get to
the root of that. Let's see what is actually
happening so that you can come up with an
answer. What can we do to get better?
Yes. And I'd rather have that hard conversation any
day and get the problem figured out instead of
having that same conversation 50 more times.
Yes. Because every single time figured out.
Because every time that you try to.
Talk about it, you're just yelling at each other
and you didn't accomplish anything.
Yeah. I think what I would add to that
is you need to ask yourself in the conversation,
am I talking with this person or am I
talking at this person? And I think a lot
of times we're just talking at each other instead
of with each other. And that was a hard
one for me to learn because I used words
to tear people apart growing up. It was not
a season of my life I'm very proud of,
but there was a season of my life where
I was a little guy. I was always angry.
Like, my nickname in football was Smiley, and it
wasn't because I was always smiling, but I was
joy. I was just a very angry little guy.
I don't know, Napoleon complex or something. I don't
know. But anyways. And so I learned I could
not win a lot of physical fights, but I
could win the verbal one. And so I learned
I knew what to say and how to say
it in order to cause the most damage to
the other person. And I realized that I brought
that skill set into marriage, and that is not
a good thing to do. And so I've seen
a lot of people, and I've counseled a lot
of people that they start weaponizing their words and
they're coming into the argument and they're like, I
know if I talk about this, it's going to
hurt them because this is a soft area because
I've learned what their weaknesses are, and.
Now I can so dangerous.
I can attack the weakness and then I can
win the argument, and then I can be the
victor. And you lose that fight 100% of the
time. And so, yeah, just ask yourself, in the
middle of it, am I still talking with them
or am I just talking at them? And a
lot of times I think we're talking at each
other and we're just yelling things and screaming things,
and take a step back. Calm down. If you
need to take a five minute break and be
like, hey, let's cool it off. Give a time
frame for it. There's a danger in saying, we're
just going to talk about this later, when later
is a nebulous thing that could exist in 50
years. Instead, say, you know what? I think this
is getting too heated. Why don't we take ten
minutes and then let's talk about this again? Or,
hey, let's take an hour, whatever the time frame
is, but give it a time frame and say,
hey, we need to take a step back because
this is getting too heated. We're yelling at each
other. We're not really communicating anymore. Let's take a
break. Let's take a moment. I'm going to go
make a cup of coffee. I'm going to go
take the dog for a walk around the block,
and then I'll be back, and then we'll continue
the conversation in a healthier way.
Yeah. My mom loved Brent. She loved him. He
was her favorite. But she always said, how did
he like you? Because he doesn't like anybody. He
doesn't like, like the whole smiley thing. It's true.
It's true.
I have a grouchy face. Apparently.
Happens to the best of us. I know nothing
of having a grouchy face.
Yeah.
Sorry, guys.
Many conversations about Joni's resting face.
My resting face.
She's also not good at poker.
No. Terribly, terribly not good at poker. So our
next question we have is, how should inappropriate social
media interactions by a spouse be handled?
By stopping by.
Stop it swiftly. Yeah. I mean, no, that's not
good. That's not okay. And if there's anybody listening
to this that tries to justify it in any
way, I don't care what your justification is. No,
just don't. That's bad. There's no world in which
that is acceptable. There's no world in which that
is okay. If you're not comfortable showing your spouse
your social media interactions, your private dms, the stuff
that you've been liking. No.
Yes.
You are in the wrong already.
Yeah.
I'm going to agree with that one.
And I think that you have to be wise.
You have to be wise because you might say,
oh, but I will never cheat. It will never
cross the line. How do you know?
And who sets out to intentionally?
Exactly. But if you are allowing yourself to start
liking some pictures, to see a picture of somebody
and say, oh, you look so pretty, and that
is not your wife, please stop it. If you
are putting fire emojis on a guy without a
shirt, stop that. You are playing with fire and
you're going to get burned. We are not untouchable.
We are not superheroes that you can flare with
this line and still be okay. So you have
to guard yourself with everything that you have. So
just stop it. Be wise for you. Be wise
for your family. Prioritize the people that are close
to you. And I think that it is just
a matter of even respect and honor to God.
Like, if you have a commitment to a person,
right? I think that God wants you to honor
that commitment. And that person might never know. Your
spouse might never, ever know that you like somebody's
picture, but God knows. So respect and honor God.
Even in your social media platforms.
Yeah. That whole social media world right now is
such a dangerous place for marriages. And I've heard
so many horror stories of great marriages that turn
to ash because of social media, because an ex
girlfriend slid into a DM or a wife started
posting pictures of herself to try and get validation
from strangers and from others, and it was just,
man, it's a dangerous world. I got mad respect
for. There's a lot of people out there that
do, like, a combined social media page for husband
and wife. We don't. Ours are separate, but we
have so much transparency that if somebody slides into
my DM, it's just, you're an idiot. But can
I say that on the podcast? Is that inappropriate?
I don't know. But I do have mad respect
for I've got some pastor friends that their account,
and it's always super awkward and super weird because
it's a husband and wife. Like, one of them
I'm thinking of. It's a husband and wife. I've
never even met the wife. And so they'll post
things, and I'm like, okay, was that him or
was that her? Because I want to be like,
oh, that's really cool, man. But if it's his
wife, that's weird. And so it's a really weird
thing. But I get why they do it, and
I respect it. I think it's smart that you're
like, look, we're not even going to play those
games.
Yeah. For me personally, my instagram is private, and
I have to know 100%, without a shot of
a doubt that I actually know you to say,
like, yes, you can follow me, because I don't
want to open. Just though anyone who wants to
follow me, it's fine. And I'm not that important
for other people to want to follow me. So
I'm trying to really be careful with that. But
I will also say, watch the things that you
are putting out there, too, because it is not
just about who you are commenting on or the
likes that you are giving to other people. But
if half of your pictures are showing cleavage or
you're portraying yourself or the guys without a shirt
and trying to show the guns and all of
this stuff, you are trying to attract something that
you shouldn't.
Yeah. You're trying to get something from someone else
that you should only be receiving from your spouse.
I get it. You have a wonderful body. You
have been working out. It's fake.
I've been trying hard with.
I cannot say the same thing. No, but just
be careful what you're putting out there. I am
very high on the modesty train. It's like, wear
more clothes.
Put on more.
Like, listen, I have an undershirt and then a
shirt and then a sweatshirt and then a jacket.
All of it. Put it all. I am that
kind of person. That's how I was raised and
that's how I feel more comfortable. So it might
even be part of that. But nobody needs to
see that much of your skin, especially not on
social media. And then you wonder, why are people
just saying these things to me on instagram? And
why are these random people liking my pictures? And
then somebody's going to start sending you messages and
like, hey, I would like to meet you. You
might be the one opening the door for those
things to happen. So just be very careful with
what you are putting out there as well.
Yeah, I'm sure it feels good, but.
It doesn't mean it comes with a price, right?
For sure.
Social media, dangerous, man. I only go on it
when my wife tells me, hey, the church posted
something. You need to comment and share it.
Like, okay, nice. So we have one final question
in our category of marriage challenges and comments.
And then it's going to get way more light
and fun, and then it's.
Going to get better. It'll get better from here.
Or are we just going to get harder?
We're doing the hard questions up front and we'll
see what happens after.
They should have brought us, like, puppies or something.
Puppies. We should totally bring any puppies in the
building.
Our new puppy is actually down.
Totally bring puppies right now.
We knew this was going to be a long
day and we didn't want to leave them crated
at home all day.
We need to take a break.
Roy is in my office right now.
So our last question is, what approaches can be
taken when a spouse is uncommunicative or they shut
down during a. Ooh.
Sol, why don't you take this one?
I would say I just said that.
Because she is the one that used to shut
down in conversation.
I don't want to say this for the person
that it is very good at communicating. Okay. Because
if you're very good at communicating, you're just going
to want to tell the other person, just speak.
Right. And it is hard, as somebody that knows
that my inclination is just to retrieve, to know
that I have somebody trying to push me out
of that. It is very intimidating. But if you
are the one that tends to get quiet, remember
that communicating, even when it is uncomfortable, is good
for your marriage. It is good for your relationship.
So you sometimes have to do things that you
don't enjoy so that you can have the relationship
that you deserve and that you have always wanted.
And I feel like you show more love when
you are able to communicate and say the truth
than when you just keep it in. Because sometimes
you are just looking at after yourself instead of
looking at the good of the relationship. I know
that it feels better for me to just be
quiet than for me to say something that I
know that is going to be uncomfortable. So do
I care more about my personal comfort or do
I care more about my relationship getting better? So
if you are the person that is getting quiet,
what are you more interested in? Being comfortable for
ten minutes or being uncomfortable for ten minutes and
having a great relationship?
I love that. I was having a conversation with
a fellow pastor a couple of weeks ago, and
we came to a theory that the only real
cause of divorce is a failure to communicate. That
every other cause of divorce is just a masking
of a failure to communicate. So when it is
a financial cause of divorce, because there's a lot
of financial issues caused a lot of divorces, it's
one of the high causes. But I think a
lot of times, because you didn't communicate about the
finances, how to handle the finances, you didn't talk
about the money. So now you have a money
issue. Sex issues were a lot either infidelity or
lack of performance or whatever. But I think a
lot of times that ties back into a failure
to communicate. You didn't express your desires, your needs.
And so all of the whole list we were
looking at of causes of divorce, it was like,
yeah, but I think that's a communication problem. I
think that's a communication problem. I think that's really
a communication problem. You know what? I think that's
a communication problem. And if you can learn how
to communicate with your spouse, the ods of you
having a healthy, amazing marriage that others will want
to emulate is going to be sky high. That's
why I said that's going to be the dead
horse of the podcast. But communicate, communicate, communicate. You've
got to learn how to communicate. If you're struggling
with how to communicate, go to counseling. One of
the big tools that a christian counselor, or really
any counselor, but I prefer a christian counselor, is
going to give you is tools on how to
effectively communicate, how to communicate the right way when
you express, hey, when you did this, it felt
like this to me, instead of just saying, hey,
you did this to hurt me. And look, you
don't know motive. So when we're communicating there's little
tricks and tools on how to have healthy communication.
You can learn those things in counseling with both
of you there together so that it gives a
chance for both sides to learn how to communicate
the right way.
Yes.
So go to counseling.
Go to counseling. Yeah. All right.
Learn how to communicate.
Are we ready to switch topics?
Let's do it.
All right, next up, we have relationship dynamics and
compatibility.
Yeah, that'll be way more fun.
We got some questions in here, like, intercultural relationship
challenges, marrying someone of a different faith, dealing with
different interpretations of scripture, sharing responsibilities, balancing household duties.
So there's quite a bit there. Okay, so first
up, what are some common challenges in intercultural marriages
and how can they be addressed? So with the
both of you, two cultures coming together, what does
that look like in your relationship?
Yeah, that's a fun one. And some people may
not realize it because I think everybody is like,
yeah, soul's Mexican. Brent's American. But a lot of
people are like, when did you come to the
States? And is your family in the States? And
soul's like, no, no, I moved here when I
got, like, up until I said do. Like, I
was Mexican, living and raised.
In, like, my very first time in the United
States of America was coming here to get married
to, like, I didn't know absolutely anybody. I have
seen his parents, his family. So, like, I didn't
even know his family. I didn't know anybody but
bret.
Yeah. No, I introduced you to your bridal party
the first night that you came into the US.
It was great.
Thank you for your service. Thank you for your
service. Nice to meet you. I have no idea
who you are, but thank you for standing with
me on the most important day of my life.
So cultural differences are very real. So how do
we navigate those?
I think that with a lot of grace and
patience, because you do things differently, you were raised
differently. Things that are important for us in Mexico
are different than things here. For me to even
understand the fact that you have kids and at
17 years old, they might leave home and actually
live in a different state because they're going to
college, I'm like, no, they don't have to leave.
I'm like, really?
What is this pranking me right now?
What is this?
How old was your brother before he moved out
of the house?
I don't even know.
Two kids at the time.
He had two kids at a time. So it
is not unheard of for a mexican family to
get married and still live with mom and dad.
Like, you go to college, but you come back
home. Every single day. You go and do your
classes, come back home. So all of that was
different. I come here and lunch is at noon.
I'm like, what? We don't eat lunch until, like,
three or 04:00 in the afternoon. And that is
the big meal of the day. It's not dinner.
So all of it is just different. So it
took patience. It took patience for me to be
able to adapt to a new everything because it
was new everything. So it was a lot of
grace. I am not hungry right now, but I
am hungry. And it was a lot of times
that we had to do a later lunch or
an earlier dinner or try to figure it out.

(23:57:16):
There were a lot of times where he's trying
to show me different places, and I don't understand
what I'm even looking at in the menus. And
there's a lot of grace and there's a lot
of patience that is required when you are putting
two cultures together, especially when one culture really is
very new to yours.
Yeah. And I think a lot of the work
was on Seoul because she was coming into american
culture. I think it would have been different if
I was moving to Mexico because I think that
whatever country you're in, that culture is going to
kind of overtake. And so that doesn't mean that
there aren't things that we embrace from mexican culture
into our home, because we do. We celebrate certain
holidays because of Seoul's heritage. There's foods that we
eat. There's ways of spending time as a family
that are just different. But I think a lot
of it was more on soul to adjust and
to learn. And so what I had to have
was a lot of grace and a lot of
patience for her. And so I let things kind
of go at her speed. And so it's like,
okay, if this is too much, I'll adjust and
we'll figure it out as we go. And I
think that I've got kind of an easy going
personality, so there was probably some easier moments because
of that where I'm just like, yeah, I don't
care. My family always did it this way, but
I really don't care about that. You do it,
however, whatever way you want to do it. And
then one of the interesting cultural things that I
had to adjust to, and honestly, it took a
while, was mexican culture. I'm trying to find the
right way to say this.
We're all together.
No, y'all are brutal, like, in love, like with
people you love, but it's like, brutal verbally bullying,
in the US is how Mexicans in Mexico show
love.
To their family members.
And then terms will just nicknames become descriptors. So
if you have a giant mole on your face,
it's like, hey, Moly, if you're fat, it's like,
hey, fatty.
You don't mean it in like a.
Bad, yeah, they're not mean. And that was what
was so hard to learn because people would just
say things like, I walk into a restaurant in
Mexico like, hey, white boy. And I'm just like,
yeah, I'm white. But why does that have to
be the only way you refer to me? What
is this?
There's more on the inside.
I'm more than just a white guy, but it's
like, it just becomes like, whatever. If you got
curly hair, you're elgino. Whatever. It just becomes the,
I don't know, the thing. And so there are
times when my.
Mom used to call me popotes because she said
that my legs were so skinny they look like
two straws.
Straws, popotes.
So when you hear bullying and I'm like, well,
my mom calls me worse at home. So thank
you for the love that I receive at school.
Yeah, your brother's nickname for a while was El
Fayo, like the ugly one. It is a brutal
culture which has been fun and interesting as our
kids are growing up in american culture. And then
souls just like, they trip and fall and souls
just like, that's hilarious. And I'm like, are you
okay? There's some differences there that we've adjusted to,
but, yeah, cultural differences are very real. And I
think what I would emphasize on this is ours
are obvious because we're coming from two different countries,
but everybody has culture. Like, if you grew up
on the north side of Chicago versus you married
somebody from the south side of Chicago, you literally
have two different cultures, even living within the same
city or in the same region. And so your
culture becomes, well, my mom always did these things.
And so I'm expecting my wife to do these
things. And your wife is like, my mom didn't
do any of those things. Why are you expecting
me to do them? And so just right there,
you've got a difference of culture. Are you going
to open the presents for Christmas on Christmas Eve
or on Christmas morning? Is it before breakfast or
after breakfast? All of these little things that you
come with a culture for, they come with a
culture for. And now you're almost responsible for creating
new culture within this new family. And so early
on, that requires. We're right back to it a
lot of communication. You've got to talk these things
out. Don't take anything for granted. Don't just assume
that because this is what you did, that's how
it's going to be. Now you need to talk
things out.
And I think that with all of that is
compromise 100%. There's a few things that you're just
going to have to adopt. Like, this is how
he can function, so I'm going to adopt that.
This is how I function in this specific thing.
So you might have to do that. And it
has to be a give and take. Like not
one person, it is not just one culture that
is going to be, now we're mexican, and everything
is. That's not going to work. The same way
that if Brent was just like, well, now you
live in the States, so now everything is american,
I would have probably just gone crazy. And like,
I don't understand what's happening anymore. So it is
not about stripping yourself completely off of who you
are, but having to compromise and say, okay, I
can give on this, but you're going to have
to give on this other thing. It's a give
and take situation.
Yeah.
And so when soul's missing her culture, we have
mexican night, and she has me cook Biria and
enchiladas. And all the things that this irish white
guy totally knows how to make, they're fire. We
make it work.
We make it work.
So, speaking culturally, what do you think about people
who come from two different faith cultural backgrounds? Like
you have Christians and Catholics, how can you make
a relationship work between a Christian and a Catholic?
Do you make a relationship work between a Christian
and a Catholic? What does that look like?
Yeah, so it's a tough question, and I take
point on it, because soul is going to have
a different perspective growing up in Mexico. Worth. Catholicism
in Mexico is a very different thing, 100%. So
we categorize Catholicism as a form of Christianity. So
it's actually kind of funny that the question is
posed, Christian versus Catholic, because in most of the
world, it's just a form of Christianity.
So the question was probably more of like a
Protestant and a Catholic. But the challenge there is
going to be how you interpret scripture, how you
apply into relationship, how you apply it into following
Jesus. What are the things that you do? What
church are you going to go to? And so
we've had a lot of conversation with people that
their spouse wanted to go to this kind of
church, they wanted to go to this kind of
church, and they end up at CLC because it's
kind of like splits the difference. And so it's
their version of compromise. It's like, well, I wanted
this Methodist church and she wanted this catholic church,
and so we ended up at the non denominational
church.
And I think that that's really the way it
has to work, is the communication piece. Again, you
got to talk things out. You got to come
up with a plan. Okay, what does raising our
kids this way look like? And the challenge there,
especially if you're dealing with Catholicism versus, like a
nondenominational background or something like that, is that there
are a lot of traditions built into Catholicism. Christening
and first communion and the first baptism and all
of these things that the catechism and learning, all
that, there are like these roadmarks or roadblocks, I
guess, I don't know, that have to be navigated,
and you really have to decide up front, okay,
are we raising our children in Catholicism, or are
we raising our children in this protestant spin off
or whatever? Are we going to be Lutheran? What
are we going to be? And there needs to
be a consensus of that early on because it
does come into play.
Are you baptizing your infant? That's a big conversation
that needs to be had that if you're in
a non denominational church, chances are you don't have
to worry about that conversation. Because, like at CLC,
our policy is the Bible doesn't tell us to
baptize children. Baptism was a decision of the believer
that's putting their faith in Christ. And last time
I checked, infants don't really make a whole lot
of decisions, especially not those kind of decisions.
And so we don't baptize infants, but the Catholic
Church will, several other denominations will. And so you
have to kind of figure out that moment of,
okay, when it comes to raising our kids, when
it comes to where we're going to go to
church, when it comes to how we're going to
process our faith, we've got to be in agreement.
And that's going to take a lot of conversations
and a lot of work. Can it work out?
Kind of what usually makes it work is when
one person abandons their side, and so can it
work where one person goes to their catholic church
on Sunday and the other person goes to their
protestant church on Sunday? Probably doesn't work very well.
Definitely doesn't work long term. It's not a healthy
thing, like family should be growing together, because then
you come home from church and you're talking about
what the priest talked about there, and you're coming
home talking about what the pastor talked about there,
and it's like there's not a connection point.
And so it's a rough scenario. I would say
it's not ideal. It probably does tie back into
what I said on Sunday about that unequally yoked
passage. Yes, it is being applied to believer and
non believer, but I think even within the category
of believers, we can still be unequally yoked. And
sometimes that could be because you come from two
very conflicting denominations. There's a lot of denominations that
they roll side by side.
It's like, man, the differences are so minute that
you wouldn't even notice them. And then there's some
that are pretty extreme. And I think the catholic
example is a pretty good one. If you're coming
from a catholic background or, I don't know, maybe
an orthodoxy tradition, there's going to be a lot
of different hoops to jump through.
I'm already making faces over here because you don't
know. I feel it. I feel it rising up.
Make the so in Mexico, and this is going
to upset so many people right now, but in
Mexico, it's our.
Favorite part of the podcast, upsetting the.
Way that Catholicism has been lived out in Mexico,
I would feel probably comfortable. Soul would absolutely be
in this camp, and she lived there, so I
defer to her. But it is that are they
still christian at that point? And soul would say,
no, absolutely not. And that's because she was raised
around it, around the people talking it through. And
so she knows better than I do on paper,
Catholics, yes, they're still Christian. There are some forms
of Catholicism that has turned to idolatry and turned
to other things that have elevated certain people above
Christ and have turned what salvation is. We talk
about the absolutes all the time of scripture, and
there's some forms of Catholicism that have taken some
of those absolutes and adjusted them in a very
inappropriate way, I would say.
So what I would say, let us have it.
Come on. What I would say to this, you
have two different faiths that you are trying to
navigate. Read the Bible. Read the Bible and go
to a place that exemplifies what the Bible says.
Go to a place that is actually going to
teach you the word of God, and that is
going to show you how to live it out.
Because I think that there are a lot of
places that can be different faiths that can be
close enough. But if they are asking you to
do things or making an intermediary person between you
and God, or they're going to give you. You
just have to say this so that your sins
can be forgiven. Every time that you come and
tell me first and then I will tell you
how many things you have to pray, where is
that in the Bible? So if they are teaching
you something, even because of tradition, even because of
the way interpretation works, even for wherever the reason
would be that it is not clearly laid out
in the word of God, that is not the
place that you should be at. So if you
want to be in the right place where your
family is going to grow spiritually, you have to
be at a place that fully sticks to the
book. And that's it. It is not about our
preferences. It is not about our way of doing
things. What does the Bible actually say?
Yeah, back to the book.
Back to the book.
Stick to the book. Yeah. It can be a
very challenging thing to navigate. And that's when you're
talking about two christians. Now, if you take a
Christian and a Hindu Christian and a Buddhist Christian
and a Mormon Christian and a Muslim, that just
creates an even bigger divide. Can those relationships work?
Not very well, to be honest. Just to be
blunt, there's a reason.
We'Re told to not be unuccilioked, right?
There's a reason. And it really comes down to
how seriously do you take your faith. And the
more serious you take your faith, the less it
will work. If you don't take your faith very
seriously, you can make anything work, no big deal.
If you're like, jesus is great, I'll read my
Bible every once in a while, I'll go to
church once a year on Easter. Then, yeah, you
could probably marry anybody you want and be just
fine. But if you actually are trying to make
Jesus the Lord of your life, I don't see
how you can go into a relationship. Now. If
you were in that religion and then you got
saved and your spouse hasn't yet, man, I think
that you're just on a journey now where you're
going to be leading them along. But if you're
a Christian who is dating somebody from a different
faith background and you're considering marrying them, it's going
to change how you raise your kids. There are
things that they may even say, oh, yeah, it's
fine, you can take the kids. But then Sunday
comes around and they're like, oh, I want to
watch the bears game with my son. Don't take
them to church. Leave them here with me and
you'll set compromises and it's just not a healthy
thing to do. So can it work out not
really blunt. Sorry. Hate it for you.
Hey, we don't get back on this podcast.
Yeah, but if you are already in that relationship,
like you are already married again, we are not
saying. We are not saying, well, just leave that
person. I believe that there is hope and that
God can still do something in your spouse as
you seek him, as your life is being transformed,
as you are showing the character of Jesus at
home, I believe that God can reach your spouse.
So this is not. Well, Pastor Brent said it's
not going to work, so see ya. That is
not what I said.
If you just heard me say.
All right, so how important is it for spouses
to understand and respect their partner's love language?
It's very important. It is very important because you
can be telling me that you love me, but
if you're not speaking my language, I might not
hear it. My husband can tell me a million
times, I love you, I love you, I love
you. But if my house is always a mess,
I don't feel loved. I feel like I have
told you a million times that I can't navigate
a place that is messy. So don't tell me
that you love.
Me if the house is a mess.
If your stuff is always everywhere, right? So for
me, it's act of service. I need things happening.
I need to feel like somebody's going to be
able to support me. So if you are just
coming to me and giving me hugs, that doesn't
do anything for me. I'm like, okay, great, but
can somebody clean up?
Married a woman with the worst love language? I
just have to throw that out there. I mean,
quality time. We could be laying on the couch
watching a show together, gifts. I could buy you
some flowers, some chocolate on the way home. Physical
touch. Come on now. That's a great one to
have. I'm all for it.
But, man, that's because that's his love language. He's
just like, give me all of the love.
Just come walk behind me, rub my back for
a second. And I know that you love me,
but no soul wants me to clean the house.
And that is probably my least love language. And
so it's actually been very important for us to
recognize and understand that. Now I get anything like
love languages and personality profiles and all that stuff.
There's so much room for error, and it's valuable.
This is not science science, but it's something that
we've seen lived out enough that there's truth to
it. And so if you don't know what your
love language is, if you don't even know what
we're talking about. With love languages, there's seven of
them. There's books written about it. You'll figure it
out. It's great. But, yeah, I would just say
it is very beneficial to understand not only what
your love language is, but what their love language
is. And also, there's a distinction between how you
give love and how you receive love. And so
soul's love language, as far as giving love, is
gifts. So if you get a gift from soul,
that is soul's way of saying, I love you.
And so all the time, soul's giving gifts. It's
random stuff, and it is the second worst love
language to have because it's really expensive for Brent.
He always used to say, like, you married the
wrong person. We're not millionaires.
Calm down. Why did you buy eight things? Well,
I have eight people I need to give it
to. You didn't need to do that. They know
you love them. It's okay. So Christmas and stuff
and birthdays. Oh, my goodness. It's horrible. Pray for
me, please. But that's how she gives love. But
that's not her receiving language. Sure, she loves getting
gifts, too, but she's 100% in the camp of,
it's more blessed to give than to receive. But
if you want to tell soul you love her,
do something for her. Put away the dishes, just
clean the floor, put in the work, put in
the effort. And so, for me, I had to
learn that lesson because I thought that since I
loved it when she walked up behind me and
rubbed my back, that she would love that, too.
So I would walk up to her and I'd
hug her, and she's like, why are you touching
me? What is this? What's going on? And so
it's like, okay. And then I recognize, okay, she
gives a lot of gifts. I think that's her
love language. So I would get her gifts, and
I could get her a gift. I could bring
her home flowers. But if the house was a
mess, the flowers meant absolutely nothing.
He would bring me, like, a chocolate bar, and
my kid would be like, can I have it?
And I'm like, sure.
Yeah. That was me saying, I love you. And
you just gave it to the.
Kid giving his love away.
Yeah, exactly. It's so frustrating. But as we've matured
in our relationship, we're going on 17 years now,
which I know that there's people listening to the
podcast that have been married longer than we've even
been alive, but that's kind of the lesson that
we've learned is, how does my spouse receive love?
Is probably more important for me to know than
anything else because I can be telling her I
love her. And I've counseled so many couples where
they're like, he just doesn't love me. And he's
like, I told you yesterday I love you. And
she's like, yeah, but you just said it. He's
like, yeah, I said it. I love you. Why
won't you just accept what I said as truth?
And it's like, yeah, but you didn't show me
you love me. Yeah, and that's the distinction. And
there's probably a lot of guys that are like
me out there that need to learn that lesson.
And the faster they can learn that lesson, the
better their marriage is going to be. Sometimes we're
slow.
All right. Wow. Love languages.
Good enough answer.
That was a good enough answer. That felt big.
So what are the keys to sharing responsibilities and
maintaining balance in a relationship? Sharing responsibilities. Share the
responsibilities.
That's an easy one. Just talk about them. Yeah,
what can you do?
And what can I do?
Yeah, and you got to look at your schedule
and what works. There's some things. A lot of
times we talk and it's like, so we split
a lot of the cooking in the house, but
we'll split it based on when I'm going to
be home to cook. So it's like, okay, Brent
has to take Bennett to soccer because soul still
doesn't like to drive. So Brent has to take
Bennett to soccer. So I'm not going to be
home to cook.
They go to soccer in, like, sketchy places. I'm
like, this is sketch.
Why do you have your son soccer in a
sketchy place?
It's not a sketchy place.
Very sus.
It's like, in the middle of Olivet Nazarene University.
It's not sketchy at all.
In Bourbon, it was like a little alley thing.
And.
We'Ll balance responsibilities based on schedules. And so if
somebody needs to stay home, usually soul is more
flexible to stay home. I've got more meetings I
need to be in. So we balance out some
stuff like that. She tries to also accommodate, like,
if I'm preaching on Sunday, then Saturday, she's not
going to have a mountain of things for me
to do so that I can be preparing and
resting for Sunday and vice versa. There's times when
soul will be preaching on Sunday, and so I
know I'm it for breakfast, lunch, and dinner. I've
got to make sure the kids are taken care
of. We've even planned out some things where it's
like, okay, I'm going to take the kids out
of the house. So you're going to be alone.
You'll have time. But it's communication. I know we've
said it a million times, but communicate those things
out. Come over the plan. Do the things that
you're good at. Let them do the things that
they're good at. The stuff that neither of you
are good at. Compromise.
And remember that you're a team and that no
one task is specific to just one person. Right.
Because I think that that's sometimes, well, I'm never
going to be responsible for the laundry. No, it
might be that this week I wasn't able to
do it. And you can help. Being in that
mentality of we are a team and we can
share different things will help. Because then when somebody
is not able to do it, the other person
can pick it up. It's no big deal.
That's why I got the t shirt folder, so
I could help.
Exactly.
Without getting yelled at that. Why can't you fold
the t shirt?
Atrocious.
All right, how many more questions we got?
We have a couple. So our next one is
about romance and intimacy. How do you maintain romance
and intimacy beyond the honeymoon phase?
By keeping at it. You just have to do
it. You just have to still do the little
notes. You still have to be intentional. You still
have to go out. You still have to hold
hands. The moment that you stop doing the little
things that make you feel like you are together,
the easier is going to be to grow apart.
Like we were said in one of the other
questions. And then the moment that your spouse wants
to hold your hand, you're going to be like,
what are you doing? But if you continue to
hold hands, if you continue to build the trust,
because I think that building trust also opens you
up for a different level of intimacy that is
not just physical. Because sometimes we hear intimacy and
we just think about sex, and it is not
just sex. You have to be able to talk
about everything. You have to be able to pour
your soul out to your spouse. And I think
that that only happens when there is this trust
that you have built in. So you need to
be able to do the little things. You need
to be able to be present for that other
person and be fully present if somebody is telling
you something, don't be looking at your phone while
they are talking because you can miss so much
of what they are trying to tell you. Or
for me, I know that there's times that I'm
trying to talk to my husband. And if he's
on his phone, I'm like, I'll wait for you
to be done. Because I'm trying to tell you
something. And it is not that I'm trying to
tell him something super important. It might just be
about tomorrow. We have to be at the church
at this time or wherever. But I need full
attention so that I know that you're listening to
what I'm saying. So all of those little things
will help you increase the level of intimacy that
you have with that person. Because you feel like
that connection is there. So you have to keep
the little things and keep doing the little things
and make sure that you have time for just
the two of you, even if it's on the
couch. I know that a lot of people were
saying, you have to go out and you have
to have day night. I believe that all of
those things are important. Yes. But if your schedule
is crazy and you are completely exhausted and you
are just trying to figure out when are you
going to cram a date night that feels more
like a chore than an actual date night. Because
we have been there that we're just so tired
that actually going out is like, you have to
go out.
Do we have to?
We were supposed to go for lunch. At this
point, the only thing I want is just be
on the couch, do nothing if that's where you
are. Embrace it. Be on the couch together. Watch
something together. Just be intentional in taking the moment
to really connect no matter where you are.
Yeah. I don't remember if this is Henry cloudism
or if it predates him, but it's the whole
intimacy is the into me see. And so it's
this vulnerability that intimacy starts with being vulnerable enough
that they can see into you. They can see
your thoughts, your feelings, your emotions, all of that.
And intimacy really belongs, or begins, I should say,
with that vulnerability. And then I'll just add on
to that just real quick, is that sex doesn't
start in the bedroom. And it really is. Find
the love language. Speak their love language. Sex may
start with you bringing home flowers. It may start
with you washing the dishes. It may start with
you just sitting there and listening to them talk.
And sometimes, fellas, a foot rub needs to just
be a foot rub. And it just needs to
start and stop right there just to create those
special moments. And then romance happens. I mean, you
have a sex drive, they have a sex drive.
Romance is going to happen.
I will say the ladies, because I'm not a
guy, so I don't know how they think or
how they feel, but I think that sex is
definitely important. Amen. So you cannot just always be
tired. You cannot always just be like, let's just
wait until tomorrow. You cannot always say, I have
a headache. There has to be that even level.
Like, you might not feel like doing anything at
the moment, but your spouse has needs. But your
spouse also has needs. So when we talk about
compromise, that might be one of the things that
you have to compromise today. And today, you weren't
feeling like it, but your spouse does, so we're
going to do it. So. And. And the truth
is, it should never feel like a chore. It
should never feel like just wherever. Right.
If it does, you're probably doing it wrong.
Yeah. And that is not what I'm trying to
say, but what I'm trying to say is that
is also important. Yes. Like, all of these other
things that we were talking about, that is more
than just physical. It's true. We cannot neglect the
physical part of it. You need both because I
feel like you have to stay playful as a
married couple. You still have to be able to
say, like, I still like you. I don't know,
pat their butt or, I don't know, wherever. Pat
their butt. That sounded like. I don't.
Good game, coach. What is that?
Go get him. I don't know, but you know
what I'm saying.
This conversation just got weird, but you.
Know what I'm trying to get at.
You never know what's going to happen here.
Just make it fun. And you get to that
place when you are still connected emotionally and physically
and mentally. You have to have all of it.
Yeah. We got to move on to other questions,
but I would just say if sex isn't happening,
there's probably a bigger issue or a different issue
that's causing that. It's probably not isolated. There's probably
a breakdown of trust. There's probably a breakdown of
intimacy. There's probably a breakdown of communication. There's a
breakdown somewhere that has now created a sex issue.
So figure out what it is.
Talk about it, for sure.
Communicate.
And I feel like we've already discussed a lot
of these things, but what would you say are
some of the foundational elements of a healthy relationship?
So we've talked about a number of things. Communication,
vulnerability.
Yeah. The compatibility piece for me is huge as
a foundational piece. And when we talk about compatibility,
there's a lot of things that. That need to
be compatible and so it's how opposites do attract.
And I'm all for it. My wife and I,
we're very different, but we're also very similar. And
it's the similarities that really help in those differences.
Right. And so we need to be compatible, though.
When it comes to faith, we need to be
compatible. When it comes to family, what are the
family plans? I want kids. They don't want kids.
That's a bad combination. When it comes to finances.
There needs to be compatibility there of what are
we going to do with our finances, what are
our goals with it. There needs to be future
compatibility. If one person is saying, man, I've wanted
to travel the world my whole life, and the
other person is like, I've never left the state
and I don't want to leave the state. There's
some compatibility issues there, and there's more to that
compatibility piece. But I think that foundations of a
healthy marriage, it's built on two people that are
actually compatible with each other. And I think a
lot of people go into a dating relationship based
on the physical. It's like they're pretty. I would
like to make my lips play with their lips.
It'd be a lot of fun.
And we are playing lips.
I was trying to keep it pg, but still.
McGee say, I want you to suck my.
To suck lips off your face. Joe McGee for
that.
I think that I like the playlist.
Beautiful better, but I think that a lot of
times we go into a relationship based on just
the looks and we're really not compatible with each
other. And so that's a dangerous place. But as
far as foundations of healthy marriage. Yeah, we talked
about the communication piece and all that, but, man,
making sure that there is compatibility right at the
foundation level, because that gives you the foundation to
build off of. And like I said, so faith,
family, fun, future. And I think we always had
a fifth f that we used to coach people
on. What was the fifth one? You remember? Finances,
faith, family, future, fun. It was fun. You need
to have some compatibility and fun. So it's so
sad, but the first connection point sol and I
had was the Simpsons. It was my favorite show.
It was her favorite show. We would literally just
be sitting there, like, randomly dropping quotes from Simpsons.
Yeah. Whole conversation, just Simpsons quotes without having to
explain anything. And it was fantastic. But you need
to have compatibility in those five f's.
Yeah.
All right.
And I think that every good relationship, it's built
on people who know how to forgive and how
to compromise.
Yeah.
It is not always my way. Or the highway.
But when we can see the needs of the
other person and compromise when it's possible, and when
we can take their fault and be able to
forgive quickly, I think that you will have a
good relationship because you are trying to serve the
other person, because you're not holding grudges on the
other person. I think that that will take you
a long way.
Yeah. I love it.
All right, our last question to kind of tie
us up today.
Could we really get through all 25 or.
We did not.
We're just killing it.
We did not.
Can we go to all 25?
We still have.
Are we so far off that we need to
just do some social media thing? Yes.
So we will be getting these questions answered this
week.
Okay.
We will have some information in the show, notes
on how you can get those answers to those
questions. We talked too much because we still have
ten questions remaining, meaning we've worked through 15 of
our questions.
We only got.
It is our final question. So this can throw
into next week. Is premarital counseling recommended for engaged
couples?
Yeah, absolutely.
Simple.
Not even recommended, like required. And so if you're
asking someone at CLC to do your wedding or
you're asking to use CLC for your wedding, premarital
counseling is a prerequisite. Like, we will not do
the wedding if you haven't gone through premarital, because
premarital counseling saves our marital counseling department from having
a lot of very hard conversations with people because
there's problems and there's issues and there's compatibility, things
that will be figured out in premarital counseling. And
most people that go through premarital counseling still go
through at the wedding. I'm not saying that it's
the deal breaker, but they then it's not our
betting system. Right. But it's like they learn some
things about their soon to be spouse that then
when they're in the marriage, they're not blindsided, they're
not surprised. And they've been given the instructions, the
tools of, hey, figure these things out. Here's how
you can talk through them. And so there's been
a lot of premarital counseling, people that have come
in, and it's like, man, there are some things
that I had no idea I should even ask.
And we're sitting there looking at them like, how
did you, you've been dating for two years. How
did you never ask them if they wanted to
have kids or not? That's not a question you
want to find out after the wedding. That's a
question you need to find the answers to beforehand.
And so, yeah, premarital counseling, not just recommended, I
would say required. And if you're getting married at
CLC.
It is literally required and it will save you
a headache in the future. And just look at
it not as another thing that you have to
do, but look at it as an investment in
your future marriage. Because you are finding out things
like Brent said about your soon to be a
spouse. You are finding out maybe even things from
their past, things that they have maybe never even
considered talking about, but that now they are kind
of out in the air, then you can have
further conversations to figure it out. How will we
navigate this? The amount of people that have said,
oh, I wish I would have known about this
before I got married or why nobody told me
that this was going to happen in marriage, it's
probably because you didn't have somebody guide you in
the process of engagement. So use this time to
invest in that relationship so that you can start
well equipped for a successful marriage.
Yeah, it's awesome. And then maybe I'm not even
the person responsible for this, but maybe someone can
throw in the show notes the link to Entwined
for Entwined.
So they start happening in February.
Yes, like February 16, 18th, 14th, twelveth.
We'll get a link in the show notes February.
It's two weeks from the airing of this podcast
at some point in that vicinity, but it's WW
Dot CLC TV counseling. And on that page is
information of how to get in touch with counseling,
but also some stuff specifically about entwined.
Yes.
So that's what you're looking for, premarital counseling. And
they say it's for those that are seriously dating
or already engaged. And so you don't actually have
to have sat down and said, will you marry
me? In order to go to entwined. It's actually
something that they recommend even before that step can
be very beneficial.
Beautiful.
So if you're seriously dating or you're engaged, Entwined
is for you.
Nice. Yeah. Well, we'll get that information in the
show notes for you. But that wraps us up
for today. I know we only got through 15
of our questions. They were so good, though.
Fail.
So good. No fail. No fail. We had some
good conversations today and hopefully we were able to
equip you at home with some awesome things as
you navigate your own relationships. But we will get
those other questions answered this week. Information on that
will be in the show notes for you. But
thanks for joining us today for between sermons.
That's fun.
So we're looking forward to the next couple of
weeks where we get to talk with the counseling
department, we get to talk with a panel of
singles. So these next couple of podcast episodes will
be following along those same lines as well. So
we look forward to seeing you very soon and
have a great rest of your weekend.

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