Singleness: Your Questions Answered

Episode Transcript
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(00:12):
Everybody, and welcome back to another episode of Between
Sermons, where we get to continue the conversation from
Sunday morning. And as always, you don't have to
be a part of our church or even have
heard the message from Sunday to get something out
this conversation. But we really want to make, I
don't know, just an opportunity for people to really
engage and have a deeper conversation about biblical things.

(00:37):
And so today we're actually wrapping up a series
we've been doing about relationships. And we had an
amazing panel on Sunday. And so I invited two
of our panelists back for today's episode. And so,
Tiffany and Sue, thanks so much for being here.
It's awesome to have you wonderful voices on the
podcast. And so I get to be the thorn

(00:59):
between two roses, the guy perspective in this conversation.
But we're going to jump straight in because we
were talking about singleness, and it's a huge topic.
We answered, I don't know, probably 20 or 30
questions on Sunday. We had another, like, I think,
70 questions that came in.
Wow.
We have condensed those. There's a lot of duplicates,

(01:22):
a lot of similar questions. We condensed that down
to 17. And so we are going to do
our best to get through all 17, so help
us God. All right, here we go. We're going
to jump straight in to question number one.
Okay.
Is marriage a divine expectation for everyone, or does
God also call some to embrace singleness? So whoever

(01:44):
wants to tackle that one.
First, I will say that whoever wrote that is
eloquent. They're very eloquent, and they probably have the
old red Bible like divine connection. I'm joking, but
I would say just based off of the example

(02:05):
in the Bible, no. And so this morning when
I was getting dressed, I was listening to another.
Everybody's doing a podcast or a sermon series right
now in February about dating, relationships, marriage and stuff.
And just like, the most influential people in the
Bible have been single. And so with that, it's

(02:26):
like, no, I would say that everyone is not
called to have a divine, I guess, connection to
marriage because the default expectation.
Shouldn'T be, well, because I'm christian, I'm going to
be married.
Right.
But I think sometimes I don't know if it's

(02:47):
the church's fault or culture or what. We give
ourselves this expectation that, well, I'm going to be
married because God loves me and I want to
be married. So that means God's going to let
me get married.
Yeah. Also, it's also something I would say that
you hear your whole life about marriage and about

(03:07):
family. And so you hear it a lot. You
see it displayed whether in your home or in
others home. It's a big topic being raised, even
like in a christian church. Preparation, that word. If
we could just. I think you, sue, might have
said it yesterday about the word preparation, how it

(03:30):
always is having you. Like, you can't fully be
invested in your relationship with God if you're always
in a mindset of preparing, and that is word
language that's been used for a long time, of
be whole in preparation for your spouse. We hear

(03:50):
that a lot. I've heard that a lot in
church and many others. So even subconsciously, you're always
like, let me get whole. I want to be
in relationship with God, as I'm also in preparation
for marriage.
You can end up being distracted and so distracted
that you miss out on what God's actually trying
to do in the moment because you're focused on
that thing that you're wanting down the road. Absolutely.

(04:14):
I think that can be a dangerous place to
be. So, yeah, I think simple answer is no.
Marriage is not a divine expectation for everyone. And
yes, God does call some people to embrace singleness.
And we've seen biblically and through the history of
the church how singles have made a huge impact
on the kingdom of God. Because as a married

(04:35):
man with three kids, I've got a lot of
distractions in life. I got a lot of responsibilities.
It's harder for me, once I started having kids,
it was harder for me to go on a
missions trip, to just pack things up and go
across the world. And so there's definitely challenges to
doing what God wants you to do while trying

(04:55):
to balance a family. All right, this second question,
I'm going to throw it at sue. It's kind
of a tie off of that first question, and
honestly, it kind of broke my heart when I
read it. So get your tissue ready. But the
question, the question was, does God still love me?
And it was in the context of this person
has been single for a really long time. It's

(05:17):
this thing that they've been praying for, wanting, for
desiring, and God's just not giving it. Is that
a sign that God doesn't love them?
No, God loves you. We are the evidence that
God loves us. And I think when you kind
of tie in your value with a person or
a mate, that's when you're tripping and you're forgetting

(05:37):
what real love is. We're going to get kind
of touchy here. But love is not more than
affection. Affection is one thing. Love is another thing.
But if I were to say, like, oh, God
loves me because I finally have a husband or
have a mate, right, you do feel the love
of the church, and you have an example of
what Christ has planned for the covenant. In order

(05:59):
to have two people love one another and have
the covenant benefits and have someone that can sharpen
you, like iron sharpens iron, right? But if you
don't have that person, that doesn't mean that God
doesn't love you, or he forgot about you or
he forgot your desires. Maybe he loves you so
much that his no is because you're not ready
yet. And that's some hard truth. Maybe I don't

(06:20):
know if this person is older or has been
waiting for years, or maybe it's going into that
season where you feel like, God, what's happening? I
don't have a purpose. My time's running out. Or
it could also be the pressure of family members
telling you, like, hey, where's a boyfriend? Or every
family reunion, like, oh, this person got married. How
about you? And so comparison envy. It could be

(06:44):
like, social media posts, even media today, can kind
of push you and influence you to think that
because you don't have someone next to you, that
God has forgotten you. And that's one of the
biggest lies that the enemy can throw at you.
Yeah, absolutely. Anything you want to add?
Man, that stuff is so good. Sue, I would
say I always struggle with the not ready yet

(07:08):
part. And I'm not old, but I'm 36. And
it's like, because having, like, you hear older people's
stories and they're like, I've been waiting on the
Lord, and it's been, like, 2030 years. And they're
like, I'm still waiting. And so I guess I

(07:28):
think that's the language that sometimes has been kind
of hard for people to move forward. And, like,
God loves you, but you kind of, like saying
to someone, whomever this person is seems like they've
been waiting for some time and maybe not, like,
two or three years, but how to help someone

(07:52):
that it's not always safe about not, it's not
the time. It could be, but I'm like, I
just don't know if that's everyone's reason why. It
may be decades, but what you said is very
true, that God loves you, and we are the
evidence of his love. So, no, it's not that

(08:13):
God doesn't love you. There are other things maybe
at play as to why, but one thing that
we can be sure in is that it's a
lie to say that you're not loved. And if
you feel that way, comparison will make anybody not

(08:33):
feel loved. And if you look around, then you
will feel that way. Because even Old Testament, how
it was, what people viewed as you are blessed,
if you see good things, but if bad things
are happening to you, then that means you are

(08:54):
cursed. And that was how it was in the
Old Testament. Until you start getting a little closer
to the New Testament, I feel like, is it
job that we see in the Bible that God
first is starting out that he was perfect and
he had all this stuff and they wanted. He's

(09:14):
experiencing a lot of stuff and all that question
of, wait a minute, bad things. It's not that
you're always cursed, that you did something say bad,
but there are a lot of things that play
up. Like, he learned a lot about his heart
and God allowed him to be tested. But just

(09:36):
that thing of thought of like, if bad things
are happening, then that means I'm cursed and that
I'm not loved by God. But this person is
getting this. So they must be loved and they
must be blessed. But you are blessed and you
are loved by God regardless of the different things
at play.
Yeah, and Jesus brings that out in the New

(09:58):
Testament, too. There's a boy who'sick. The Pharisees are
like, hey, who sinned here? Was it his sin
or is his father's sin? And Jesus like, neither.
This is just so I can do something right
now. And so I think that there's a real
danger in connecting how much God loves you to
what he gives you. And God's love is the

(10:21):
fact that he sent Jesus to die on a
cross for your sins, that's the love of God.
And so whether he gives you a spouse or
no spouse, if he gives you a million dollars
or no million dollars, if he gives you the
nice house or no nice house, if we start
tying the things he gives us to the level
of which God loves us, we are in a

(10:42):
really dangerous, scary place.
And that kind of also dives into like, I
just want to clarify what I said. We always
praise the Lord when he opens the door, but
rarely we praise him with the same power and
the same potency when he closes the door. And
so that is an issue in western hemisphere Christianity.

(11:02):
We love the hype and we love just having
the opportunity to be like, yes, God made a
way, of course, praise. Dance, for crying out loud.
Bow down on your knees headfirst. But the same
way that we praise the Lord during those situations,
we need to also keep in mind that when
he says no, it's for a reason. And being

(11:23):
honest and transparent with you, I had to learn
this being behind the scenes. So I went to
Oliver Nasrin University, and there was a couple that,
imagine this young couple. They have a child, and
they were really struggling to have kids. And so
we all were praying like, God, please. Because when
you have a brother and sister in Christ and

(11:45):
they're winning in a situation, I'm winning, too. That's
the best part about having brothers and sisters in
fellowship. Anywho, so we were really praying for them
to have a child. They had their child, and
then a couple of months later, the baby was
diagnosed with cancer. Guys, I will never forget the
way, oh, I'm about to cry. They were in

(12:06):
the first pew, and the pastors were praying over
them, and I was bawling my eyes out because
in a way, I was mourning, too. Like, God,
you made a way. Why would this happen? And
then I was thinking, like, lord, you love us.
You died. You sent your son to die on
the cross for us. Like, God, what did we
miss? What did we do wrong? And seeing the

(12:29):
helper and the leader, both of them together, praising
the Lord, lifting their hands up, shouting like, hallelujah,
blessed be the lord. And we were singing the
song, bless him some more. So you know how
the song goes. And it's very hype song. It's
a gospel song. Anywho, so we were singing the
song, and they were screaming, but not in pain.

(12:50):
They were screaming praise, and they're like, you know
what, God? It's your way, your way, what you
want, your will. And seeing how the wife was
holding her husband's hand because he was weak to
even lift his hand because he was crying so
much, that's love. That's love for whoever this person
is. When you base love on the affection that

(13:14):
someone can give you, is it really love, or
is it your ego being filled and maybe that's
a little bit too deep? I got permission from
pastor Brian to be real, but I don't want
an ego seeker, mate. I don't want someone to
be in my Seuss personal fan club and tell
me, you're pretty, you're beautiful. This and don't. I

(13:36):
don't desire that. I really don't. What I desire
is, and this can be heavy, but I desire
a man that can hold my hand when I
can't lift my hands up because God forbid, and
I'm being honest, guys, it would break my. I
can't wait to be a mom one day. But
it will break my heart if my daughter or
son, six months into his growth and development, he's

(13:59):
diagnosed with cancer. So do I want a foundation
in marriage that is strong and equipped and really
grounded in Christ, like all ten toes on the
ground? Or do I want someone to just hype
me up and be someone that fills me up
to make me have a confidence boost? I think

(14:21):
that's a question that we should be asking.
Absolutely. And there's a danger in looking for somebody
that makes you feel good, because what happens the
moment that person isn't making you feel good? That's
when you throw away the relationship. That's when you
create all these issues and dilemmas. My wife's job
in our relationship is not to make me feel

(14:43):
good. And the faster you can come to terms
with that, I think the healthier you can build
a true relationship where you're serving one another and
your whole purpose is to lift them up. Their
whole purpose is to lift you up. And, man,
it can be a beautiful thing, but it's hard.
Yeah, it is.
All right, you kind of touched on something a

(15:04):
little bit ago. That ties into our third question.
How do you handle good, meaning church people who
treat you like you are experiencing less than God's
best because you are single. So those church people
that come by and like, oh, he'll do it.
One find he's got someone for you, and they're
well meaning, like, they're trying to care for you,

(15:24):
but it's kind of like, okay, I didn't ask
you for.
Up.
Tiffany and I, we were actually talking about this
yesterday. We were having a side conversation, and I
told her. I was like, it's funny how some.
People will come up to you and.
They'Ll be like, honey, it'll come. It'll come. And
I know they're trying to encourage you, or I

(15:44):
think it was a couple of Sundays ago. I
had no idea this guy was single. And they
were like, honey, he's single. And I'm like, I
was not even looking at him. You were the
one that's tempting me. Have you had a situation
like that here where you feel like just a.
Comment that someone says, listen, it happens all the
time. I think people mean well, but it's back

(16:05):
centered around marriage being. Some people know that it's
a strong desire of mine, right? But some people
don't know, but I think they care for you,
so they want to see you with someone, but
this is still not their business. So sometimes I'm
just like, okay. And I just nod. But I

(16:25):
think lately I'm just starting to kind of learn
when it's getting too much to defend myself or
I'm not going to give you more detail, even
though you're trying to seek for more. And so
even saying yesterday in that message, give them the
opportunity to share in front of our church, stop
giving people prophetic words that they're getting.

(16:47):
That was good.
Yeah, stop doing it. Let the Lord lead you.
Because it's too big of a decision.
Right.
And so I want to say, maybe four or
five years ago, I remember I got seven prophetic
words from seven different people. It's like, okay, God.

(17:09):
None of them running in the same circles, right,
but it was still seven people from church. Yeah,
probably from here, honestly. And it's like, wow, okay,
God. There is clearly an alignment because the words
are the same and it was this specific word
and it was called fairy tale. And I knew

(17:30):
when someone else was saying, I'm like, it's coming.
I see a fairy tale that God is going
to do these things, like what you pray for.
And I appreciate it. I'm like, okay, seven times.
I remember I was dating someone at the time.
Like, I'm getting married and it's either you or
somebody else. But that was like 2017. So with

(17:53):
those different things, it's just like, people have asked
me, have you thought about freezing your eggs? It's
just so invasive with no relationship. And so I
think now I'm just at the place where I
just start to kind of correct people or just
give them no extra space when it comes to

(18:15):
that because it's starting to be too much.
Yeah, I get that. And it's funny because I'm
sitting here listening. I got married at. I think
we got engaged at 22. We got married at
23. But that process never ends. So just brace
yourself. So right now it's the dating thing. Then

(18:38):
you're going to start dating somebody, and it's going
to be the when are you all going to
get married?
Thing. For sure.
Then it's going to be the when are you
guys going to have kids? Thing. Then it's going
to be complete random strangers walking up to you
at Walmart saying, you know how you should really
raise that child of yours. It's like, I don't
even know you. No, it never ends.
Good parts that you're redeemed.
Brace yourself.

(18:59):
If you were unredeemed, you would have been like,
excuse me, and I might.
Have still been like that a little bit.
People need understanding, like, there is no relationship.
Absolutely. And I think, man, it was funny. I
think it was like a joyce Myers one where
somebody made a comment about something she was wearing
and it being inappropriate, and she was just like,

(19:21):
okay, my husband saw my outfit. He didn't have
a problem with it. I have a board of
elders that check on me. They didn't have any
issue with it. If God wanted to tell me
that I was doing something inappropriate, don't you think
he would have used any one of those people
to tell me? Right. There's so many levels to
this, but I think they are good meaning, and
because they're good meaning, I give them a little

(19:42):
bit of grace. But I think that you do
have to set those boundaries where people are pushing
for more information because everybody wants the tea, everybody
wants the gossip, everyone wants being on all the
know and all that. So you just let people
know. Hey, thanks for asking. Yeah. See you later.
Stay in your lane. I like it. All right,

(20:05):
this is getting a little bit more on the
practical side. Does waiting on God for a spouse
mean that I'm not supposed to go looking for
one? Because I think we use this language a
lot of, like, I'm just waiting on God to
send me the right one. I don't know. Is
there truth to the idea that we should be
waiting on God? And does waiting mean passivity? Does

(20:30):
that mean no action? What's your take on that?
I always do this, and forgive me, I will
take a question and then I'll kind of reword
the question, but in my head, the question is,
when do you know you are ready to look?
Okay, because nowhere in the Bible it says, no,
be still and do not look for any other
spouse. But if you know that your heart is

(20:50):
not ready, you have to be ready to date.
That's fact. If you're bracing yourself to your horniness
and due to your high hormones wanting to meet
someone to fulfill a sexual desire or even to
fulfill an ego like we were talking about, that's
a heart issue. Don't do that. If you are

(21:10):
wanting to seek someone due to the pressure of,
like, oh, my gosh, I'm older, this is happening,
what am I going to do? That's also an
issue. But if you're really hungering to meet someone
based on the sole purpose of, okay, I've taken
the time to meditate and to really, you could
say, prepare myself for dating, then I'm ready to

(21:31):
look. So I think that should be, like, a
preface before the next question. We need to make
sure that we have our hearts postured in the
right place before even thinking of looking.
Yeah, I like that.
Same. The question I'm like, it is kind of
like this. So I was trying to visually see

(21:51):
and understand what they were asking. Great, because everyone's
self awareness is different. Some people really do feel
ready.
Yeah, of course.
And then what's ready? Looks. You could be ready
always being like, I'm always getting ready of what
to date. But I think if you have this

(22:13):
desire, and this is why I think we are
meant to be in relationship with people. Maybe not
everybody is called to marriage, but we are called
to have friends, right? To be able to have
people around you, to see these different things that
you can grow in, that you can make yourself

(22:33):
available in the process. And so as you are
just living life and we're always striving to be
more like Christ and to just be better human
beings if you desire this, making yourself available and
not hiding under a rock. And so I think

(22:55):
something I had to learn because I'm like, there's
no other area in my life that I can
see. Friends tell me that I act awkward in,
but dating is the one. It's just one of
those.
Is that why you named your podcast the awkward
single life?
Absolutely. It's that one space with that because of
maybe things that I've learned about, like hide yourself

(23:17):
in the word or being nervous about rejection, which
is one reason why people don't know what to
do with that stuff, is you've hidden yourself so
much that people don't even know you're available. Right.
There are so many guys that think that I
am dating, and it's like, why? What made you

(23:37):
think I just move around? Like, well, hey, how
are you doing?
This is the way you carry yourself, too.
Yeah. And I just know how to. I don't
know. I work at a church, too. So you
want to make sure people aren't trying to do
too much at your job. You're just talking to
everyone and then can be oblivious. But also, I

(23:58):
wouldn't be going anywhere or just looking like, in
my church. So those different things of like, am
I actually making myself available? That doesn't even mean
time. It may not even be time, but that
thing of like, you're just waiting. Like, I'm going
to keep making myself available to you, God, for
whatever. So it may not be time, but I'm

(24:18):
not going to close my hands to it. And
that helps with that, I hope, in answering this
question.
Absolutely. Psalms says he who finds a wife finds
a good thing. So there's a finding that happens.
It doesn't say, the one who God sends to
you has a good thing. No, you got to

(24:39):
go out and you got to find somebody. And
so I think that waiting on God would be
very situational, very much. If God is telling you,
hey, don't. And I've got that story. I know
several other people that have that story where it's
like, so for me, I was a serial. Like,
I dated way too bad. And I moved to

(25:03):
Mexico for a year. And I literally, I had
just gotten out of a relationship, moved to this.
So is my wife. And so I get to
Mexico, and literally, one of the first days, I
was journaling, praying, reading my Bible, and I was
just like, God, I've been distracted way too much.

(25:24):
And so I'm giving you this year, I'm not
looking anymore. I'm pulling away. And I think two
months later, Sol and I started dating. But it
was literally. It was one of those where when
I stopped trying to pursue something, God handed me
the thing. And so it makes this question hard

(25:45):
to answer because it is very situational.
It really is.
I think that in general, because I've also talked
with people, they're like, they're super upset because they
are single and they don't want to be. And
so I just ask them, well, what have you
been doing? And they're like, nothing. Okay. It's like,
if I complain about being overweight but I'm not
going to the gym, maybe I should do something

(26:08):
about the part of my life I don't like.
I don't know. It's a really hard question to
answer just blankly because it's very situational. I think
that, in general, waiting on God is not supposed
to be passive. It is a time where you
are working on yourself, you're working on pursuing him,
doing the things you're supposed to do. But if

(26:29):
you really want to be with somebody, then if
God hasn't told you not to, right. Go get
on one of the dating apps and go to
your local church looking for somebody and do whatever
you got to do. All right. We're all over
the place with that. Question, number five. Number five,
very interested in your guys'take on this one. Is

(26:50):
it okay to rekindle a relationship with an ex
and under what conditions?
Oh, my word.
I think the full question, because we had to
condense it, but I think of the full version.
Person said that it's been, like, ten years since
they dated. They've remained friends, and now they're kind
of looking at each other like, should we start
this thing up again? What do you think? Dating
an ex? Yes. No. Maybe. Sometimes.

(27:14):
Okay, I have to preface right? Every situation is
different. Every single situation is different.
Yeah. We usually say, you should not be getting
any kind of advice from a podcast because we're
talking to each other. You're not here. We don't
know your history, your background, your story.
I 100% agree with that. Thank you for supporting
me, pastor. But honestly, I'm pretty sure our communications.

(27:35):
Director is going to be like, don't say that
we want people to listen to the podcast. But
seriously, use this as like, okay, let me go
talk with somebody about this thing that I heard.
Just take it and run with it.
That's good. I was going to say, due to
my personal experience, God will not deliver you from
the very Egypt that had your spiritual life on

(27:58):
life support. And when he delivers you from that,
send you right back to that place of dryness
and hurt and sleepless nights. Guys, I sleep so
much better now post two years after you can
see changes, if that makes sense. Like, your mind
is rewired when you pray. Like, lord, search my

(28:21):
heart. What did I do wrong? Because it takes
two people to tango. Absolutely. So it's not always
the guy's fault or, I mean, in my case,
it's not always whoever's fault it was. It's two
people. So you really think like, lord, thank you
for delivering me. But even when you are in
Egypt and then you go into the desert of
healing, that's hard. And when you're finally in the

(28:42):
promised land, you want to go back to, and
maybe it's unlogical for some people.
I mean, the Israelites did. It was better in
Egypt. At least we had food.
But I really want to encourage whoever wrote this
question. You cannot forget all the situations. Don't romanticize

(29:06):
and hyper focus on the nice things that happened.
And, oh, my gosh, he's fine. Or whatever the
situation may be. In my case, I think my
first year of singleness was really hard because you
have so many voices and dms and people being
like, hey, I heard this, I heard that. And

(29:27):
then the second year is when I don't have
social media right now. So I deleted everything. Not
because, I don't know, I want to just make
a statement, but it was really because I want
to make sure that I'm grounded all ten toes
and that I'm preparing myself for dating before even
going back on social media. So that the comments
and validation or even a DM from anyone won't

(29:50):
shake me, but will make me. I want to
be wise enough to see a fruit and to
see if it's bruised before biting off of it.
So I need to check myself and make sure
that I'm equipped enough and to know how to
use my sort of truth. So for this person,
after ten years of being friends, that's great. Hallelujah.

(30:11):
Not a lot. That's awesome. But after ten years
of being friends, are you grounded in Christ? And
can you see that he has been reaping also
benefits of being grounded in Christ? And have you
guys both talked of what was former to address
that? That won't happen in current season. So I

(30:32):
think that is very important. The Lord can work
in miraculous ways. I mean, he can resuscitate someone
from the dead in three days. So I don't
think that it takes hard. It shouldn't be super
life changing to know that God can work in
your life. And it could be a year, two
years, three years, who knows? But if you can

(30:53):
see healing on both sides and starting this new
relationship again, you can't base your past as a
foundation. It has to be started from the beginning
again.
Yeah, I think there's some great truth in that.
I think the reality is I've seen it both
work and fail miserably. When two people that had
dated, it fell apart, it failed. And then they

(31:16):
had some time and they went back to it.
I've seen people end up with amazing relationships doing
that.
Right.
And I've seen some people go, oh, that was
the worst mistake of my life. It was like
I just did something stupid twice. And so I
think you have to look at what caused the
relationship to fail originally.

(31:37):
Right.
And has that changed? Because if it hasn't, then
you're going to get the same results.
Yeah. Good. It's not like they just up and
came back in ten years. You guys have been
friends for ten years, right? So you can have
some history and some receipts of growth of each
other, if you're friends to know, have I changed?

(32:00):
Has changed.
Are we in a better place now than we
were there then? And can we reconnect? I think
it's definitely possible. I think I would use that
as like, a lot of yellow flags, maybe. Proceed
with caution.
I would strongly suggest that whoever wrote this, you

(32:21):
have to tell, don't hide the relationship, but you
have to tell people. That's when you should talk
more and be like, hey, whoever is your Peter,
James and John, which are like the three closest
people that you have in your life. It could
be anyone. Your best friend, your pastor, whoever it
may be. You have to let them know so
that they can also keep you accountable. Like, are
you sure he did XYZ in the past? They

(32:43):
will know the rawness of what happened before and
after.
Yeah, because feelings can blind us.
That's good.
Love makes you do some stupid things, so you
just got to be cautious. All right, number six,
we're going to kind of get into some general
dating advice, so put on your dating expert hats.
Such a great dater.
Question number six. What would you describe as the

(33:06):
steps or stages or phases of dating successfully? So
what does dating successfully look like?
Come on, tiff. I can see you processing.
I am like you're processing. So talk right now.
Talk out loud as you're processing.
I think what, at least it seems to be

(33:28):
healthy is like getting to know someone. So not
everyone gets to observe someone's life. The question you
asked yesterday about physical attraction and stuff that was
based off of knowing people, but we're talking about
someone off the street. All you're going off of
is physical. That's what you see. Like, oh, this

(33:50):
person, they seem charming or nice or whatever, but
getting to know someone just helps in making, say,
like, a decision. If I want to get to
know, say, more of them from there. Am I
interested? Are we both interested together? Okay, let's see

(34:12):
where this goes. Of interest being clear, even in
interest like that, this is my goal in dating.
Now, no pressure to you. I'm not saying that
we are husband and wife, but this is my
goal in dating. So as we're getting to know
each other, it's not a casual situation to me.

(34:32):
Some people could think differently than that. But as
a Christian, I'm like, if I could just be
clear in my path of what my goal is.
Somebody is not afraid of that, but I also
let them know that is not pressure to you.
Right.
And so if things don't work out, it's okay.

(34:53):
And so we're getting to know each other. We
are dating, which to me is different than going
on dates. So if somebody wants to take you
out on a date on Monday, okay, and then
the next day, I think it's just different. But
that's something else.
No, I'm with you on that one.
It's a little different, but getting to know us.

(35:15):
Okay, let's bring in some people of this. We're
getting to know each other, and now we're getting
to a place that we want to be exclusive.
We both have a clear understanding of what our
goal is. We both want to pursue marriage now
we are in a relationship because we want to
pursue marriage. If marriage is our thing, engagement marriage.

(35:42):
And that would be the way to me to
successfully say the date. It may not make it
to engagement, it may not make it to serious,
but you've gotten a chance to know someone. They
know what your thing is, and you know what
they're continue to make decisions.
Yeah.
I think that what's so vital is there needs

(36:05):
to be a window of time where it is
trying to find the right language for it. It
is data gathering season. Right. So you are trying
to get as much information about this person as
possible to see about compatibility and all of that.
The problem we run into is when people just

(36:27):
jump on the compatibility from a physical standpoint. It's
like, she's beautiful, he's hot. So we're a great
combination. Right. But what really has to happen is
the compatibility question needs to be asked before you
get into some of the more serious parts of
the relationship.
And so I think, and this is just kind

(36:47):
of my personal opinion, I think that friends first
make better boyfriend and girlfriend down the road. So
there needs to be a, I want to say
no commitment, but sometimes that becomes a dangerous phrase
in today's society where it's like, no commitment means
I can just go do some crazy, stupid stuff.

(37:09):
And that's not what I mean by it, but
I mean that we haven't gotten into a conversation
of, hey, I want to marry you one day,
maybe. So let's figure this out. No, let's just
be friends. Because if I am attracted to you
physically, that's easy to tell right away.
But how well do we match intellectually? How well
do we match emotionally? Does my humor and their

(37:29):
humor, do we fit? Is this a good thing
or a bad thing you have to enter into
that relationship with? I don't know, data gathering in
mind. It's a really unsexy way to put it,
but it's the reality. Like, you are gathering data.
Right. What is this person like on their worst
day? What is this person like on their best
day? What is this person like around their friends?

(37:50):
What is this person like around their family? Because
all of that is important data. It's important information
that you're going to then filter through, okay, with
my stuff and their stuff.
Does this thing work? And if you don't have
that season, sometimes we end up skipping over that
and just go straight into dating. And then the
dating just kind of progresses, especially in the christian

(38:10):
world. It's like you go on one date, and
now you're totally getting married in six months. So
sometimes you got to slow down, be friends for
a bit, gather that data, figure out who you
are, who they are. Does this thing work? And
so that's the process my wife and I, we
went on. So we were in a program together.
We already knew a ton about each other, but

(38:33):
literally, we went out one night. I guess you
could call it a date. We didn't view it
as a date at the time. It was literally
like we had been doing some kind of program
at the church all day.
Neither of us ate, and so it was like
the end of the day, and I didn't speak
Spanish very well. So when I wanted to eat
those first few months, I needed somebody to go
with me. And so we just had to go

(38:56):
get tacos together. But at that point, I already
had a physical attraction to her.
But sitting there eating tacos, I started asking some
real fact finding questions, like, hey, could you ever
see yourself moving to the US? How do you
feel about ministry? What are your goals for the
future? And it was like, because, yes, I'm attracted

(39:18):
to her, but if we don't match, if we
don't have compatibility in these other areas, we're in
trouble. And I don't know. Somebody's going to feel
like I'm less of a pastor for this. But
the moment I realized I could pursue this was
when I found out that her favorite tv show
was the Simpsons.
Because my favorite tv show was the Simpsons. Very
pastoral. But it was in that moment that it

(39:40):
was like I put a high value on somebody
that I can enjoy time with, that I could
laugh with. And so she threw out a random
Simpsons quote, and I got it immediately. And it
was just like the sparks flew from that moment.
Thank you. Yeah, she wants to preach and she
wants to be in ministry, and she loves Jesus.
But it was the Simpsons. Simpsons did it.

(40:00):
That's so cute.
I love that. And I think it's something good
about when talking about friendship, that someone knows I'm
getting to know you. I'm not friend zoning you,
though, right? Because that's a different thing. I'm not
trying to friend zone you and make you bro
or make you sis, but can we just get
to know each other to get some surety that
I understand that you're attracted?

(40:24):
No, that's good. And I love what you said
about letting the other person know. Just because my
goal for dating is marriage doesn't mean I'm expecting
to marry you. We're still figuring this thing out.
But what I would caution people is, and this
is the hard thing when you know they're not.
Get out of there. Don't prolong it. I think

(40:45):
too many people stay in relationships that they know
are going nowhere because the idea of being in
the relationship that's going nowhere sounds better than being
in no relationship, right?
Yeah.
And they just entertain it.
Yeah. It's a dangerous place. That's how people get
hurt.
Oh, no, you're good. I strongly believe in courting.
Some people don't.

(41:05):
Define courting.
Define courting. Courting to me happens. It's right in
between dating. So you have dating, courting, marriage.
Okay.
Maybe that's a latin american thing. Maybe a lot
of latin american churches, maybe.
So they stress also courting. Yeah, go ahead.
No, you're good. Yeah. To tell me no, please,
other churches.

(41:26):
No, I've heard courting.
Oh, okay, good.
So I know it's not just like maybe a
latin culture. It may be like heavy in that,
but if you could explain, I would love to
hear.
Yeah, no, you're good. So friendship is friendship. I
may see someone and be attracted to them, but
I'm going to definitely friend zone them. I'm not

(41:48):
going to say anything. And then the way I
was taught by my former church is then when
you date, it's a little bit different. You're going
on dates. It's no commitment. You're really getting to
know this person and you're letting them know, like
what you mentioned. Yeah. You're going to want to
date, to marry. It might not be you, but

(42:08):
I'm going to kind of scout out. We're going
to try to figure this out together. And if
not, we're going to be cool because we're just
going to hang out. But specifically for the purpose
of recruiting information, which sounds really nerdy right now.
Super nerdy.
We're going to recruit information.
We should have this conversation with Carlton. He'd be
so gung ho. Getting data.
Yeah.
So anywho. Yeah, you just collect the data of

(42:29):
the person and then when it's like real, like
you're like, okay, the data has been entered. According
to my analysis, you seem like you could be
a good candidate. Let's court. And so then that's
when you would pull in your pastors or your
friends or I would call my best friend. She'd
be with me through the whole process, kind of

(42:51):
walking through me. And then I would be like,
hey, after really thinking about it and seeing all
this data. Let's do this. Let's date. And so
that's when it becomes official. We are officially exclusively
boyfriend and girlfriend. And then that's when the questions
do arise of, like, okay, do we want to
talk to me? What is your time frame? How

(43:12):
would you like to potentially do premarital counseling? And
obviously, you'll have the questions, like, the basic questions
when you're going on dates. Like, what are your
goals? Do you want to move to the US?
Do you not want to go to the US?
What is your perspective on cheating? What to you,
is emotional infidelity? Like, all of those questions that,
those are kind of deep. Do you want to

(43:34):
have kids? Do you not want to have kids?
Some of these questions have to be said even
before I consider you to be official boyfriend and
girlfriend. Because if it is official and I introduce
you to my family, that's not a joke. Like,
in my culture, the day I bring a guy
to my home, you're married. Like, in their eyes,
you're married. And so I really want to be

(43:54):
careful to not let my emotions drive me into
saying, oh, my gosh, let's do premarital counseling. Let's
see if this is really real. I want to
have a lot of those questions preset when it
comes to dating.
Yeah, I think that your phrasing for courting, I
think other people would just call, like, seriously dating.
You go from that talking stage to like, no,

(44:16):
this is, like, exclusive serious dating. Yeah, I think
that makes sense. All right. How can christian singles
express interest and pursue potential partners? This is question
seven. And then there's kind of a. So we
actually had question one, two, three, and four on
here were all tied into this, but one kind
of spin off to this question. So the question

(44:37):
is, how can christian singles express interest and pursue
potential partners? But one of the spin offs of
this question was, it seems like the culture's way
of getting noticed is by dressing immodestly. And I
would assume this is more on the female side.
As a Christian, how can I make myself noticeable
to the opposite sex without compromising myself in that
way? So as a Christian, how do you gain

(45:00):
the attention of the boys out there?
You want to tackle this one?
You can go first. You said, like, oh, I
can't wait to get to this question. So you
go right on ahead, sis.
I think we need to think of the root
of the question. What type of men do you
want to attract? Because you can get attention easily,

(45:22):
but what type of men do you want to
attract? And that's key here. If I wear a
super low v neckline and the tightest jeans on
Earth, trying to purposely do it in order to
get attention, maybe you won't get attention. Maybe it's
a heart issue. Sometimes for certain women, it fulfills

(45:43):
you to know that you are at least putting
yourself out there when maybe you won't be receiving
the right men that you would want to be
looking at you. So we need to check our
hearts and say, okay, God, am I the woman
that a man would want or the man that
I'm seeking would want? So, am I what I

(46:04):
am demanding? So, for instance, if I want a
man who is pure and who loves the Lord,
and please play some basketball or some sports. I
love sports. So any of that, like, okay, am
I being that, or am I trying to build
a man? We're not doing build a bear here.
This sounds kind of tough, but you really got

(46:24):
to make sure that you aren't creating scenarios in
your head of what you would expect, but also
not going with what the world says and the
culture says of, if you show. Excuse me for
my language, but if you show your titties out
and you provoke yourself as much as you can,
that you are kind of gaining the respect of
men and easily having something, and so not everything

(46:47):
that is fast is good for you, because then
you can't missionary date. If you really want a
man that loves the Lord and you're just seeking
the hunger of a man, of a physical man,
but not really reaping the benefits of what is
having a God Christ center man, then you're kind
of defeating the whole purpose of wanting to have

(47:07):
a deity relationship anyway. So we really got to
be careful when it comes to modesty. This is
another avenue that I take this question at. Some
women have never been taught what it is like
to be modest and what the words is about
modesty. And I want to really touch on this
real quick. A lot of women, based on the
churches that you were from previously. So I used

(47:30):
to come from a really, you could say legalistic,
like, megalegalistic church, so you would have to wear
skirts. And it's just different. So when you wear
jeans for the first time, you're like, oh, my
gosh, I'm that girl now. I am her now.
But we have to remember that there is a
balance between modesty and fashion. But also, you could

(47:54):
say, flat out provoking and having the wrong intention.
And so if you are kind of in that
spectrum of like, oh, okay, I want more attention,
so I'm going to show more cleavage or more
of my. Whatever you have, you need to be
careful that you're not lying to yourself, saying that
it is fashion when deep down you just want

(48:14):
the tension.
It's kind of a long, it's a very real
conversation, a very deep thought process. But to kind
of man this one up a little bit, the
reality is you attract or you catch what you
use as bait. So whatever you're using as bait

(48:36):
that is going to attract a certain type of
thing. When I go fishing with my grandpa, depending
on what kind of fish we wanted to catch,
we would use a different bait. And so if
you're out there and you're using your physical body
as the bait, you're going to get guys that
are only considering or only interested in the physical
body. And so you get what you put out
there. And so there's a lot of danger in

(48:57):
that.
Yeah, I think also in both the things that
you guys were saying from different, even male friends
that I've heard. It's like you almost have to
learn over and over again and be like ten
toes down and believing that if a guy really
wants to be married, then there's a certain look.

(49:24):
They may be cool with a girl that maybe
wears low v's all the time or half of
her butts out in coolest scene, but that's not
really who they're trying to marry. And so anytime
they're looking for a spouse, I've just never heard
a christian guy, some people outside of that may

(49:46):
see that, but they are looking even deeper into
like, no, there's something different in them and it
so happens to work out. But when it comes
to christian men, when they're looking to marry, you
just have to believe in your soul that you
standing out, that's going to be the difference. And
if they're not mature yet to see that, then

(50:09):
unfortunately, it is unfortunate, then you're going to have
to take a pass say on them because it's
different. So I do think that God created men
and women's bodies differently for a reason.
For sure.
For whatever reason, he has made men attracted to
women's breasts. It says it in Solomon.

(50:31):
As a guy, I can.
There's a reason that he's done that. And so
is a man going to be naturally attracted to
your body? Yes. So wearing something form fitting is
not the same as I'm going to wear something
that shows like, everything because I want you to
see everything but that some men are even more

(50:56):
visual, I. E. Women are also visual. Just side
note but I think if you trust and know,
even when I was in college, I would always
notice, like, man, how come the girls that always
are, like, a cool way, like, having sex, man,

(51:16):
they're getting taken out in nice places. Like, my
friend, I'm like, bro, you took her on a
helicopter, and I can't even get subway. But they
are also like, well, because all of that comes
with the end goal. They're getting what they paid
for, right? That ranges from money to whatever, but

(51:41):
that's just where they were. But they weren't looking
to get married, so it was okay. But if
someone is ready to be married, there's just a
different kind of mindset that they're in. Some people.
A friend was like, oh, I just love when
a woman has a long skirt on and you
see those ankles. He grew up kojic, and I
was cracking up. That he's like, it just does

(52:04):
something to me.
My God.
Hilarious. Every person is so different. Collarbones, elbows, like,
all these different things, but really one us knowing
in our heart and then being encouraged to that
person. Like, just know to be different. If you
like style, you like fashion, go for it. And
then just being mindful of your body parts, but

(52:28):
also not feeling like, because I have these body
parts, let me make sure that they are not
seen at all. Wear a white t shirt, right,
but God gave it all out. You know what
I mean? Those different things. That's all I have
to say about the.
And we need to preface, though. It is so
important for this not to get in the wrong

(52:49):
context. Women should look good. Please do your makeup.
Please look good. Wear some cute jeans. Of course.
Do everything you got to do. Good bra.
It has to be.
Bryn is like, I feel like I'm.
In the wrong conversation right now. This is fantastic.
Keep up your. Don't be sloppy. Let's keep ourselves

(53:12):
together.
Thread the eyebrows.
What did you say?
I said thread the eyebrows. I do threading.
Oh, no, the guys are doing that.
But for guys, too. Cut your hair. Guys. Like,
when it gets too long on the sides.
I'm already married.
But anyway, all of those things. Yes. That is

(53:32):
100% bible like, look good, feel good, but don't
wear a white tank top without a bra. Come
on. Some things are common sense, and those are
the things that I'm alluding to. If you really
want to do that and be like, oh, my
gosh. What are you talking about? And you're like,
girl, please, did you not see yourself in the

(53:52):
mirror? So just those things, like, okay, what are
you trying to attract, we got to preface don't
come to church on Sunday looking all humpty dumpty
like, please trust that look good.
So there's a balance, please. Okay. So I think
we did a great job of expressing the. Don't
use sex as the draw.

(54:14):
Right.
But what are some ways as a Christian that
you can attract the opposite? Like, do you need
to just walk around with your bible out and
reading? What can you do as a Christian?
You're making us look like we're saints.
No, I'm just asking the question because this person
is like, look, I don't want to do the

(54:34):
thing that the world's doing.
That's good.
I see the success in what the world's doing,
and I would like to be successful in dating,
so I don't want to do that. But what
can I do to still be successful? So how
do you gain attention of the opposite sex?
I can only speak from my own personal experience
right now. Is that a couple of things? So

(54:59):
I've always been into fashion and how I'm going
to go out the house, but also, it sounds
really minimal. But one thing I realized I did
not do is I only did facial shots on
Instagram, and so they only knew me. And so

(55:23):
how come you never show your whole self? I
don't know, but I knew what it was. I
didn't want to show my body, but not, like,
in a sexual, like, I'm trying to be, like,
only fans, but I was insecure about, like, oh,

(55:45):
my curves. So I don't want to show it
at all. But just being able to fully be
confident, I think being confident in your own body
when you show up really helps the energy that
you put out. People can feel that confidence and
bringing that confidence of who you are. Like we

(56:08):
mentioned, if you're trying to stand out from a
crowd, I do not waver. If something is casual
or not, if I want to dress up, period,
then I'm going to dress up. And guess what?
You're going to stand out. If you are doing

(56:28):
those things. Don't be quiet. Share your opinion on
different things. Learn some more stuff so that you
can contribute to a conversation. If it's like, if
you said you like sports, I would love to
like sports. I could sit down and watch basketball.
LSU all the way.

(56:48):
But, like, okay, if I like athletes, then maybe
I should maybe learn, listen to some, watch some
more games, whatever. But how to make myself more
seen is like, I'm going to publicly show I
could leave out of this church as soon as
service ends if I wanted to, but linger around.

(57:11):
If you're at your church, linger around, talk to
some people. Get to know more people. If you're
interested in someone, linger around, see who they hang
out with.
Not as a stalker, not creepy guy in the
background, but, hey, how are you doing?
They may not even know you exist, right? Because

(57:34):
you're just kind of, like, hiding yourself.
I think this is great. My advice, this is
for male or female, confidence is attractive. And so
if you can just demonstrate confidence, walk up to
somebody and start a conversation, which I'm so lucky
that I'm already married because I am such a

(57:57):
quiet, introverted person, like, I would struggle so much.
But the reality is confidence is attractive, and so
you need to just be upfront, talk to somebody.
If you find somebody attractive, go start up a
conversation, ask their name. If nothing else, the tried
and true for guys in the church world is
carry lots of chairs. That's always been the trick

(58:19):
for guys you can stack the most. If you
could carry, like, three chairs in each arm, you
were pretty good.
And that's true.
It's absolutely true. There's no joke right now. This
was the thing, man. This is how you impressed
church girls in my day, is you would carry

(58:41):
the biggest stack of chairs, and then they would
go, ooh, he loves Jesus.
I grew up in church.
Come on, now.
And I was totally a church girl. But maybe
really you were at the wrong church, apparently.
I don't know.
The chairs.
It was always when they would stack the chairs
and the guy would. He wasn't.
Especially the folding chairs.
If you can get the folding chairs.
Yeah, come on now.

(59:01):
All of that.
Come on, now.
And then sue is like, at least ten years
younger.
What is wrong with me? Where did you grow
up, Tiffany, if you're listening to this on a
social media platform, let us know in the know
the chair stacking thing is that a Brenton sue
thing is, Tiffany just grew up in the wrong

(59:22):
church. I feel like that's a legit moment, the
carrying the chairs. All right. So I think that
was some good ways, I think, man, one of
the things I was first attracted to my wife
about was her smile, her laugh, but also just
kind of the way that she served and cared
for people, you pay attention to those things. And

(59:44):
so I think for people that are like, I
want to find a mate at church. So they
just go to church and kind of look around.
I think you're missing it. I think you need
to get involved in a team. I think when
you start serving and you're around other people that
are serving, that's when that relationship actually can blossom.

(01:00:05):
So that's just kind of my tips. I didn't
realize this, but our next question is tips for
men who struggle with confidence around women but still
want a partner. So I just got done telling
you how you need confidence. I know this is
tips for men, but as females, what are the
things that I don't know, you would advise?

(01:00:28):
I don't know. Maybe it's just me. I love
when men are authentic and really honest. Like, if
a man were to come up to me and
be like, hey, I'm really nervous to talk to
you right now, but it's worth a shot. What's
your name? Like, that, my heart melts. Like, oh,
I have to.
That's so kind of you.
So I think the authenticity, the macho or macho

(01:00:51):
guy, in my culture, it's like that. Like, you
see this fine, tall, bulky, six two mexican man
being like, hey, shorty, want me to go get
you something to eat?
Six foot two mexican man, what part.
Of Mexico did you grow up in in Mexico
City?
Oh, my goodness.
And in Spanish, you wouldn't say shorty. Like, in
Spanish, you'd be like, there's some slang that it's

(01:01:13):
not podcast appropriate. Like, would translate in English. You
would translate it shorty in Spanish. I think the
culture, we would all understand spanish culture.
There's a little bit more directness in nicknaming conventions.
Yeah. People would be like, hey, mommy. Or there's
some other ones that you're.
Like, oh, if you said that in.

(01:01:34):
The United States, he would get a punch to
the like, that's so inappropriate. But in other cultures,
it's like, flattering. Like, hey, beautiful eyes. Hey, curvy.
Like, you're like, oh, thank you. And if some
girls are flattered by that, do not. Especially here.
If you want to find a great girl that

(01:01:55):
loves the Lord, it could be taken the wrong
way easily. If you were to first compliment her
physical appearance of like, hey, mommy, you look good
today. Back away from me. I think a girl
would go running. So definitely just being aware that
if men want to approach a woman, it's not

(01:02:16):
always the confidence that the world can tell you
to be confident in to approach a woman. Like,
if you have this leadership and authority over her.
But be honest. I think that really authentically is
what can help men just have a better conversation
and communication flowing with a girl.
If you could just be direct and just come

(01:02:38):
up out of the confusion of, like, I'm not
sure. But I think men have just become more
nervous of that. And it's like, really, women just
want you to just be direct. And I'm sorry
that as christian women, we have not always been
as supportive in interest and non interest that could

(01:03:02):
make someone like, well, I'm not about to come
up to them because they totally disrespected or played
me. But I'm sorry that that has happened to
you. But I can tell you, you are way
more appreciated when someone knows, like, hey, my name
is this, and I would like to get to
know you. That, for me, is just at this

(01:03:25):
point, just say it. Just like you said. Even
if you're nervous, like, nervous and all, I just
figured that I would give it a shot and
just say, I want to get to know you.
So cute.
That's so heartwarming.
And I get it. Nobody likes rejection. And so
for a guy to just come out and say,
hey, I find you attractive, I'd love to get
to know you. The fear is that you're going

(01:03:48):
to be like, no, thank you. But I think,
yeah, you have to take that risk. And if
you don't take that risk, then you end up
asking questions like, I'm 40 and I'm still single.
I don't know what's wrong with me.
We're way more oblivious than you think, for sure.
And I know, like guys say, women, if you

(01:04:08):
could just give a little.
Oh, yeah, this one absolutely works both ways.
We don't give enough, man. They don't know either.
But, yeah, I wasn't sure that my wife found
me attractive. I was very direct with her, and
she gave me the let's just be friends speech
for about an hour. And then after an hour

(01:04:29):
of her giving me the let's just be friends
speech, it became the there might be something here.
Let's try this. And it was the most confusing
whiplash ever. She literally had to convince herself while
talking to me that, yeah, no, actually, I think
I do like this guy. But, man, that was
an excruciating first hour. And then it was a
great second hour of the conversation, and then we

(01:04:52):
started dating. But really cute. Yeah, absolutely. Works both
ways. Be direct, be honest. If you find them
attractive, let them know. And look, if it's awkward,
it's awkward. Will it ruin a friendship? I don't
think it has to. I don't think it does.
I think the reality is you can be friends
with people that you find attractive, even if you

(01:05:14):
know this isn't going to turn into a relationship.
Because, look, somebody walks in the room, you're immediately
thinking attractive or not attractive with every single person.
So every one of your friends is already looking
at you, either attractive or unattractive. So don't let
that be the thing that scares you off.
Biggest thing is just fighting the rejection part. That's

(01:05:34):
the part that is both ways. The hard thing
is that rejection thing of if they say no
or even if they say no and we're in
the same community now, how I'm now being stigma,
which is still a source of rejection.
What was that at the movies sermon PJ did

(01:05:55):
years ago? It was we bought a zoo. It
was like the 8 seconds of insane courage or
something like that where you just got to just
get out there and it just takes 8 seconds.
Just walk up to somebody and during.
The 30 seconds on Sunday, man, coming out of
our relationship series in the next 30 seconds, if
there's someone that.
You have a crush on, go let them know.

(01:06:17):
That's terrible.
It would be awful.
We're turning the 32nd into speed dating. No, we're
going to move on. Question number nine for you
is any advice for teen dating?
Okay, can we define the teen dating? Is that
like 18 and teenagers?

(01:06:39):
Teenagers.
Okay, teenagers.
So anything from 13 through 19?
Yeah. I think the same thing goes for everyone
when it comes to dating. I strongly believe there
shouldn't be a shift when it comes to depending
on your age. Like I said Sunday, you can

(01:07:00):
be a fool even if you're 41, 45, 80
if wisdom is wisdom. Regardless, I get some people,
they're 16, 1718. They meet the love of their
lives during that time and that's great. That's awesome.
But the same rules apply. Covenant is covenant. So
covenant benefits. Covenant benefits. What you do in that

(01:07:23):
relationship should not change at all when you get
older or if you are younger. So that is
my answer. I think it's really important to have
both parties, both categories applying to the same rules.
Yeah, if we define dating as it's fact finding,
it's gathering data then sure. At 13 you can
absolutely already be gathering data for look, the likelihood

(01:07:47):
of the person you start dating at 13 being
the person you marry, slim to none. 1% of
the population have that story. So you need to
be really slow with the I love you phrasing.
Because you're 13 you don't even understand what love
is, right? So you can't be using it yet.
Right. And for anybody that's 13 listening to this,

(01:08:10):
I love you but you don't know. You're too
young. I know 30 year olds that don't understand
what love is. It's not a knock against you.
It just. It takes time. And so, yeah, so
just take things slow. Don't jump into some crazy,
like, we're going to get married after high school.
No, you're not. You're not. It's just not happening.
And if it does, that's awesome for you, but

(01:08:32):
don't go into it expecting that. Go into it.
Should know.
Yeah, but go into it. What information am I
learning? Mostly, I think, in teenage years of dating,
you're learning yourself in relationship more than you're learning
other people. You're learning, okay, man, I have a
jealous streak. I need to be cautious of that.
Or, man, I'm kind of lazy in relationships. I

(01:08:56):
don't put in the work. So you're learning some
things about yourself that will, hopefully, when you're in
your 20s, gives you a better, I don't know,
a framework or a foundation understanding of what it
means to date. So I'm not opposed to 13
year olds dating unless it's my daughter, and then
she's got to be 35 before she can date.
But that's just me.
Yeah. I look at it two ways. So I

(01:09:17):
look at as a teenager and then the parent
of the teen. So I think first, as a
parent, if you have first a teenager, you need
to get permission from your parent to date. And
don't just do it on your own, because if
you understand now that it's going to set you

(01:09:37):
up to team date, well, bring your parents and
that you like someone. My first church, it was
like a sin to date, so I couldn't even
fathom being able to.
This is why you weren't carrying, seeing the guys,
carrying the chairs. But it was very little. I
understand that was your problem.

(01:09:59):
But then my next church, when I was 16,
the kids could date. I asked my mom for
permission to be able to date. The part that
I think helps is, even if it's 13, 1516,
is that parents and teens need to partner together.
They're not now your friend. You need to be

(01:10:19):
able to. Don't leave your kid out there. So,
like, you walking Jaden and Bennett and Kelsey through
this is what it looks like to date at
your age, because it's more about learning about yourself.
So let's talk to you about those boundaries and,
hey, what love is and what care is to

(01:10:40):
not diminish even that someone could really love. My
sister. Her and my brother in law, they were
childhood sweethearts, not high school sweethearts. They were childhood
sweethearts.
They were the 1%.
They were like 7th eigth grade and they broke
up because it was like my sister's like, you

(01:11:02):
are way too attached that young. It was too
much for her. And then they got married when
she was 19. But there's a lot of stuff
that happened in between that. But to diminish and
say he, even throughout high school and stuff, even
when she dated my sister, she was a teen

(01:11:23):
mom. He talked about that process of how he
always thought because he loved her, that they would
have a family and that all those different. So
it's like to not diminish, but there's a lot
of growth and immaturity. But if you don't let
people in and trust your parents and parents make

(01:11:43):
yourself trustworthy to not say diminish their feelings, but
like this is probably not let's pursue marriage and
having a 13 year old say that, but walking
your kid through that and then knowing how. So,
hey, because you're a teen, even as an adult,
I'm not letting you go to the movies by

(01:12:05):
yourself. Yeah, those little things that help them understand
how to teen date so that you don't go
into maybe college with so much baggage because of
how poorly you maybe dated in high school if
you were allowed to.
And I think as a parent, you have to
be very careful to not push the idea among

(01:12:27):
your son or daughter. For instance, I remember the
very first time I told my mom like, oh,
mom, I think this guy's really cute and he
went to Sunday school with me. She would crack
jokes every time we would go on Sunday and
be like, oh, you're going to sit next to
him. And I know she didn't mean it in
a malicious intent, but that to me was like,
dang it, I shouldn't have told my mom. Now

(01:12:48):
she knows. And he looks really fine today, too.
So it was like little details like that. But
also I was going to add, if your child
is not emotionally ready and if let's, I mean,
worst comes to worst, they're dating for two months,
then they break up and they feel like their
whole world is falling apart. This can happen at

(01:13:08):
any age, but it's critical, especially when you're growing
up and you're becoming in that fundamental stage of
knowing who you are, that can really mess you
up. So if you have the parents consent and
they can see in their child like, oh, you
are emotionally mature. Oh, you're going to church, you
have your faith in the Lord. You're not going
to base your faith and your motivation of getting
ready for church to go meet someone, just like

(01:13:30):
those little micro details. I think that's essential because
if the identity of this child is based on
the dating, once that person leaves, which is most
likely, they're not going to last very long.
Sorry, guys.
Yeah. But then it's critical. So even as a
parent, letting their kids know, are you ready if

(01:13:52):
this doesn't work out, are you ready to face
the weirdness, the awkwardness when you guys go back
to church and, oh, you guys are not dating.
Are you ready for that? So kind of giving
them the before and after effects.
Yeah. And if you're a parent listening to this
and you don't feel qualified or ready for that
kind of conversation, contact the church. Our youth Department

(01:14:14):
has some leaders that would love to be able
to kind of give you some tools, some resources,
just kind of walk you through some of those
conversations, because there's a lot of times when, as
a parent, I'm approaching a conversation with my kids
and I'm like, I am so not ready for
this conversation. But here it is. Here we go.
And so I understand that feeling overwhelmed, and so
we want to be able to support and help.

(01:14:35):
Cool. All right, got another question for you. Dating
for five years now, and it's at a standstill.
So they've been dating the same person for five
years. It's at a standstill. Should I keep waiting
or should I start to question why we aren't
married yet?
It got real quiet.

(01:14:56):
Situational.
Yeah. It's so hard to say.
If you dated in high school, there are times
when I was in college, it'd be like kids
like that. They had been together for seven years.
Well, because they started dating in high school and
now they're in college, so they were planning to
get married by senior year with the spring fling.

(01:15:19):
But they've been together, like, almost eight years. But
it made sense. No. Yes. You needed to wait.
But it seems like this person, maybe that's not
the case.
Yeah. The way I read the question and the
full version of it, this is an adult that's
been dating somebody for a while, and we're still

(01:15:42):
dating. But it's been five years. I think, honestly,
what you said, it's very situational. But I think
the advice that I would give to anybody, regardless
of situation, is talk about it. If you haven't
had the conversation with them, hey, is this relationship
going anywhere? We've been having fun for five years,
but after five years, I'm kind of wondering, is
this still going towards something? And if you don't

(01:16:05):
have that conversation, then it's on you for feeling
like, I don't know where this thing is going.
You got to talk it out.
That's true.
And if you have gotten and it's still like,
well, not yet, then that's like your time to
make a decision. Even though it's been five years
and you've invested, what do you want to do
now that you know, like, well, we need to

(01:16:27):
do this. You're constantly waiting.
Hopefully this doesn't get too nerdy, but there's this
concept called the sunk cost fallacy, which is this
idea of the more you've invested in something, the
more you want to hold on to it. You
don't want to get rid of it because accounting.
Right? Because you've invested too much. Well, the same
thing is true with money, but it's also true
with time. You've spent five years investing in this,

(01:16:49):
and so now you don't want to let it
go because you feel like you lose those five
years. The reality is you lose way more if
you're staying in a relationship that you should have
left.
Right.
And so that five years is not wasted time.
You learned, you grew, you discovered things. And if
it doesn't move in the direction you're wanting it
to go, it is better for you to say,
you know what? I know I've invested a lot

(01:17:10):
into this, but it's not going to do the
thing that I thought it would do.
That's good.
It's harsh reality. And please, again, don't take what
I just said and say, all right, we're breaking
up. No, have the conversation.
And again, do you have wise counsel? Right. I
think that's the part that's hard with this stuff,
is that most people don't seek people around them

(01:17:33):
to help them guide them in relationships. And so
bring some other people that you trust that have
wisdom in on these situations.
I think it's also important to know marriage won't
cure. Marriage exposes. And it could be weird. Like,

(01:17:54):
maybe people online are like, oh, my gosh, she's
single. What is she talking about? But it's true.
It's in the word marriage exposes. It won't heal
you. And so it's important to know, okay, what
is the rush on your end? Is he making
you feel some sort of way? Is he acting
different? There's so many more elements that you can

(01:18:14):
think here. I don't know. Maybe this guy is
changing the way he approaches her. Maybe she doesn't
feel pursued anymore. Maybe she doesn't feel validated with
the time that he has been giving her. Or
maybe it's just the time that's the issue. Like,
oh, my gosh, it's been, what, ten years, five
years? What's wrong? Does he just want to be

(01:18:36):
financially stable? And then the enemy can bring lies
of like, oh, he's just saying that because he
doesn't really love you. He's just not ready for
you. So again, the communication part is really important,
but also the clarification. Like, if you have seen
signs of change and it's normal within a relationship,
each year, you won't have the same person you're

(01:18:58):
dating. They will evolve, they will change. However, are
situational things making you doubt? And if that's the
case, it's really important to advocate for that and
to shed light on that, but also not ignore
it. And so I'm a pro at kind of

(01:19:19):
romanticizing the moment and being like, oh, no, it's
just me in my head. And you bottle it
up and then you don't say things. So it's
important for this person to say it or at
least share their mind with a friend, mom, dad,
and say, am I crazy? Or have you noticed
that, too?
I like it. Have the conversation. All right, so
we got a few last questions. All of these

(01:19:40):
kind of revolve around kind of your faith and
dating. And so first question is, how important is
it to lead with being a Christian when on
a date? So is that a first date? Is
that a pre date? Is that a fifth date?
When do you approach the subject of, by the
way, I'm a Christian, and that's really important to
me.

(01:20:05):
I think even in the first date or two,
something in just natural conversation and talking and people,
someone asking you questions.
Right.
So what are some things that you do in
your free time? You probably go to church. You
know what I mean? It's not about like, oh,

(01:20:28):
so this is my I'm a christian kind of
thing. But yeah, this is something that, this is
my life. This is how I do it. But
if you're constantly waiting and you're not sure if
they're a Christian because it's some stuff that doesn't
need to be stated when you know another person
and they're also a believer, we don't need to

(01:20:49):
have the first conversation about that. But if it's
someone brand new that you don't know, you're getting
to know things about someone. I don't know why
it wouldn't come up.
And it's evident you're not judging. One thing is
observing and one thing is judging. Sorry, two different

(01:21:11):
things. But you can observe from someone when they're
a Christian. It's just the way they carry themselves,
the way they talk, like the things that they
do. You're most likely not going to see someone
at the hooker bar or something along those lines
if they're a Christian. So again, it's kind of
like spotting where, when and how. So when you
do have this first date, it'll come up somehow.
Like you're part of a small group or, oh,

(01:21:32):
I just got a text from a friend. Oh,
who's your friend? Oh, I actually met her from
church. So just like those little details will come
out and then hopefully the conversation will flow out
of that too.
Well. And I think everybody in this conversation would
be approaching it from a stance of, you wouldn't
even be dating somebody if they weren't a Christian,
right? In the sense of like, look, if this

(01:21:53):
thing is going to go somewhere unequally yoked is
actually our next question.
So with online dating, everybody, just so you know,
if you haven't done it, if you didn't know
online, I have.
Never done online dating.
Never done online dating. You have the space if
there's any religion thing. So christian, muslim, agnostic, whatever,

(01:22:14):
someone wants to put non religious, spiritual, whatever. A
lot of people put Christian. And I realize that
that is the overseeing, at least it has been
for decades. Christian is american. Like how people equate,
say Buddhists, like when we were in Cambodia. No,
they're both the, like, I realized that people, if

(01:22:37):
they're american, then they put themselves as Christians. So
you don't really know if they didn't like, oh,
and I love the Lord and this, I don't
do all of that in my profile either, but
it says Christian and I put something, it could
be me singing. It's something in there that lets
someone know that I'm a Christian. But not everyone
does that. So in going in that first date,

(01:23:02):
that's been a time of like when you're getting
to ask those questions because I don't really know
yet if you are a believer. Based off of
I'm looking at interest, I see that as you're
a Christian, I'm hopeful. And then as the conversation
goes on.
We'Ve got a question about that too.
But they really didn't bring it up. So let

(01:23:22):
me just let them know too. Like, oh, and
one, the natural thing for me, I work at
a church, so I can't really get around it.
Because people.
So what do you do for work? Yeah, well,
I work at a church. So you're a Christian.
And that has always been, no matter where I
am, it's going to tell itself because people always,
what do you do? But that's when you kind

(01:23:43):
of like, oh, and you get to ask a
few more questions, and then they may say, well,
I'm a Christian. I grew up in my grandfather's
church. So you're kind of like, okay, well, it
doesn't sound like this is an active thing, but
we're going to just keep. I'm going to give
you the benefit of the doubt in this one.
We're going to just keep in conversation in these

(01:24:04):
next couple of dates, seeing if you initiate anything
about your faith, because it's important. That's good.
So we actually have several questions that are going
to kind of piggyback off of what you were
just talking about. But the first one is, what
does it mean to be equally yoked in a
relationship? And how do you know if you are
or aren't? So scripture says, don't be unequally yoked.

(01:24:26):
And we can go into a lot of.
Paul mentions it in, is it first corinthians?
I forget the location, but somewhere in there.
Yeah, somewhere there.
Could you give the definition of what a yoke
is?
So a yoke is a farming device. So it's
basically you'd pull a plow with two oxen. And
so in order to, for them to pull at

(01:24:47):
the same speed at the same rate, you'd put
a yoke around them. So you put this brace
on their necks, so it allows you to pull
together in the same direction. And so the idea
there is, it's a little bit complex, but a
lot of times, if one of the ox is
bigger and stronger than the other, then it's hard
to keep them in a straight line, so they

(01:25:09):
start pulling in one direction or the other. And
so the concept there is, if you guys are
not equally yoked, then one of you is going
to pull the other one in the wrong direction.
And it never happens to be the direction of
God. It's always the other direction when you're unequally
yoked. And so what does it mean to you
to be equally yoked in a relationship? And how

(01:25:31):
do you know if you are or you aren't?
That's deep.
I think part of the fact finding. Right.
That's what you're figuring out that's deep. It's really
important to, I personally believe the spiritual maturity is
important. If I can meet the finest man on

(01:25:52):
earth. Latino, hopefully finest man.
Sue has her list.
Have my list. Latino.
And he's a proud six foot two, loves basketball,
Mexican.
Pastor Brent's putting his description out.
We've been taking notes. So if that fits your
description, how can they contact.
No, we're not playing matchmaker on no, no. Whatever

(01:26:17):
wants. However. No, it's really important to, like I
said again, the story of the lady who she
and her husband had their baby, and their baby
unfortunately passed away due to cancer. At that point,
you don't care how they look like. At that
point, you want them to have the spiritual maturity.

(01:26:38):
So in my perspective, the most important thing is,
are you there? I'm not judging you based on
you could have a phd in divinity. You can
go to the best theological school in whatever seminary.
However, if you don't know how to talk to
people and communicate and not, it's not the degree

(01:27:01):
that matters here. What matters here is just your
Persona, your character, the way you are. That, whoa,
that's attractive because you don't see that often. You
can see, with all due respect, a man who
calls himself a pastor, but then talks horrible things
behind other people's backs and does, like, church gangs.
I don't know if you've heard of that, but

(01:27:22):
my church is better than yours and the fight.
So that, to me, is okay. Forget about all
the degrees. Forget about any of that. Are you
spiritually mature? And if you are spiritually mature, can
you lead me as a woman's perspective, can you
lead me and annoy me in the best way
possible to correct me when wrong? Like, I don't
want someone to hype me up and be like,

(01:27:43):
oh, my, you, you. Yes, that was so keep
it. Like, I don't need that. I need you
to also see the points in me. Like, hey,
sue, your pride, check it, because I love you.
Check it. Like, oh, that's going to be super
annoying. But in a way, that's what I desire.
So when it comes to being equally yoked, are

(01:28:05):
you ready? One, two. Are you ready to colead?
Because even as a woman, I'm a helper, so
I need to make sure that I'm ready to
co lead that ministry, too. I know it's not
technically a ministry in church, but it is a
ministry. Am I ready to co lead? 03:00 a.m..
I going to be responsible enough to know that

(01:28:25):
I'm representing, even if it's dating, I'm representing myself,
but also Christ in this relationship and is my,
yes, to this person going to be a yes
that benefits me, or is it going to be
a yes that benefits everyone in the kingdom? Because
if it's just going to benefit me and my
ego, then it's pointless. I mean, you're not going

(01:28:46):
to date someone just to date someone. So when
it comes to equally yoked, is he able to
lead you? Is he able to love you really
what love means? And then last but not least,
is he willing to correct you when you're wrong?
Not someone that's, and I've done this in the
past, but I've allowed people to tell me what

(01:29:06):
truth is without even trying to look at it
for myself. And so am I willing to also
dig and find the truth together? So I think
that's really important. When it comes to being equally
yoked, do you have the same beliefs? I'm not
saying you have to be the same denomination or
you have to be nondom, but it could be
an issue, like, if this man is catholic and

(01:29:28):
I am nondom, I don't do the rosary. He
may.
So is that equally yoked or take communion with
you?
Yeah, I can't take communion with you. You can't
even get married in the catholic church if you
are both Catholic. So it's really important to note
that the spiritual aspect is important. And if the
spiritual aspect for some may not be important now,

(01:29:50):
what will happen when you have kids? One kid
goes to the catholic church and one kid goes
to CLC. So you really have to think of
the long terms that are going to be.
Absolutely. Yeah. I think that with this, there's different
levels to the equally unequally yoked conversation. The obvious
one is Christian with non Christian.
Right.
That's unequal. But even within both christians, there is

(01:30:14):
kind of different levels of this. So for me,
not only is my relationship with God the most
important thing in my life and will always be
the most important thing in my life, I'm in
ministry for this. So for me, just being with
somebody that's like, yeah, I'm a CEO. Christian Christmas
and Easter, only CEO, that wouldn't work, right. That

(01:30:38):
would be a very unequal the amount of work
that it takes to be in ministry to pastor.
And we have very much a team mentality. And
so for me, it's like, I couldn't just have
a wife that wants to stay at home or
get a job at a school or something and
just kind of support, like, yay, go ministry stuff.
No, I need somebody that's in the office with

(01:30:59):
me, sitting in meetings with me bouncing ideas off
of. So for me, there's even a higher level
of that equally yoked conversation. But for others, it's
okay. Is Christianity the most important thing in your
life? And is it the most important thing in
their life? Because if it isn't, then there's an
issue there. And I think that there is some

(01:31:20):
ebbs and flows. Like, honestly, there are moments when
my wife is way more spiritual than I am.
There's moments when she's been reading her Bible more
than I have. There's moments when I've been reading
my Bible more than she has. And so there's
some ebbs and flows. Things aren't always static, but
in those moments, we are encouraging each other. That's
good. And I think that's what happens when you

(01:31:40):
are equally yoked, is that you're on this journey
together, you're working on this thing together, you're pursuing
Jesus together. And when one of you is like,
you can take the kids to church if you
want, I'm going to stay home getting in trouble.
Yeah. For me, lordship, if this person is pursuing

(01:32:02):
for God to be lord of their life, and
I felt like once I've made that decision, it
has made things very clear of a yes and
no. And so, again, that doesn't mean because some,
like, he got to know the Bible better than
me. No. Are you pursuing for God to be

(01:32:23):
Lord of all your life? That's good with that?
It matters to you. It grieves you when you
sin. And it's that pursuit. I think I've just
seen it too much where someone is a Christian,
but God isn't yet like Lord. And it not

(01:32:45):
just backfires because the relationship can still be right,
but life is too hard. I could do spiritual
warfare all by myself.
Yeah.
I'm not going to marry someone and still be
praying by myself about spiritual warfare.
Yeah.
So it's just so, like. Nah. So that helped.
Even with going on different dates last year, it

(01:33:07):
wasn't about someone. No, Lord, please don't let them
be a pastor. That's a prayer of mine, actually.
Now I feel like I said it out loud.
Prejudice, tiff.
Well, it's just like you're in ministry, so you
know how much you have to give.
Pastors need love, too.
They do.
I'm so sorry. I've prayed that same prayer that

(01:33:28):
would.
Love to be a pastor's wife.
My friends, they crack jokes, so they're like, oh,
if you are in ministry, you're most likely going
to marry a pastor. And I pray every day.
Absolutely.
Well, people put that as the pinnacle of someone
that really loves the Lord.
Right.
There are business, marketing, creatives, whomever it is, but

(01:33:50):
is God, Lord. And so when I.
Right.
It's like I've learned even with friends or loved
ones, like, hey, give. But in my mind, in
my soul, I could feel a transition coming. And
so it's one of those things, like, now that
bare minimum is not going to fit for me.
And that is not about, again, certain things. But

(01:34:14):
I can see that you take your relationship with
God serious, that it doesn't matter if I'm here
or not. And we have our preferences. I have
my things that I would love, too, and that's
great.
Yeah.
And I want that. But this part, too.

(01:34:35):
Yeah. And I think it's important to note, you
don't build a man, so we're not in a
build a beer factory.
Right.
When you want. You have your criteria and your
whole list. Please think. Please say it was a
list. It was a list. It was a joking
list of what I would prefer. But when you.
We all have our preference and attraction for sure.

(01:34:57):
To me, this is like I'm speaking. I'm speaking
because of experience. When you surrender your agenda and
your desire, and you might have had your whole
plan right there, and when you surrender that, that
hits differently because you realize that there is a
difference between needs and wants. I need a man

(01:35:18):
of Christ, and I wouldn't want, with all due
respect, I wouldn't want a pastor. But if he
is a pastor. But it is what it is.
I'm already married, so it is for all. I'm
not offended.
Right.
It is what it is.
But you need to have that in mind. There's
the difference between convictions and preferences. So the conviction
part is important. He's not an extrovert. Okay, so

(01:35:43):
that is a preference. But the conviction part, we
can't forget about that. If not, we're going to
do exactly what Paul told us not to do.
Yeah, I like it. And, tiff, you kept talking
there that lordship, is this relationship with God real?
And that's actually our next question. How do you
know if the person you're interested in has a

(01:36:03):
real relationship with God? Or are they just saying
it because they know it's important to you? So
how do you distinguish between that?
I can tell when I'm pursuing God as Lord
and I can tell when I'm not. Yeah, and
so the same with someone else. It's not about
if you know the entire Bible. Honestly, I get

(01:36:26):
ashamed. I don't know, I have not read everything
in the Bible, but I am pursuing. I am
pursuing the God's word. I don't even remember that
now. I got to start again and read this
chapter again until it's, like, in my soul.
Right.
And so with that, you can tell when someone
is pursuing God, even if they make mistakes, even

(01:36:48):
if they are like, yo, your attitude is tough.
I think that's a clear way that you can
know and probably to your level of where you
are in your relationship with God. What you see
in someone's lordship is going to also look different,
too.
Right.
But with that, everybody's different. So with that yoke,

(01:37:12):
your yoke and their yoke is going to look
different when it comes to lordship. But you would
be able to see that pursuit.
Yeah.
I mean, the Bible tells us over and over
again, judge them by their fruit. Is there fruit
of the spirit evident in their life? If there
isn't, then there's not a real relationship with God
there.
And even if you are in church and take

(01:37:34):
this with a grain of salt, please take this
with a grain of salt, even if you are
in church. And you might know them outside of
church. And in church, if they yell louder at
a basketball game and a football game, but they
can raise their hands during worship and even sing
the songs during worship, you're not judging. You're observing.
That, to me, is like, that's interesting. So even,

(01:37:57):
like, those little details.
Absolutely.
Do they pray? And I'm not saying you have
to scream at the top of your lungs when
it's worship, but if a man could even stand
up and give reverence and clap off the beat,
even if they have a beat to the worship
songs, what is the issue there? Because I've seen

(01:38:18):
before, on an outside perspective that you can be
hollering and going for the bears, but you can't
do that at church. So I don't know, just
even observing the outside details, too.
Yeah. And I think you've got to ask questions.
The question you have to ask yourself is, do
they ever initiate the conversation about God, or are

(01:38:39):
they always just responding? So do they ever say,
hey, we should go to church? Or, hey, I
was reading in my Bible the other day, and
what do you think about this passage? Or, man,
something happened and they're immediately they're like, okay, let's
pray about that. Right? Are they initiating or are
they only responding? Because if they're only responding, then
cut and run. It's not real.

(01:38:59):
That's good. But if they're initiating responder and even
being aware of the guys that do the. But
in the Bible it says during an argument, so
we need to be very spiritual abuse. Yeah, the
spiritual abuse. Making sure that they're not spiritual when
it's convenient, but be spiritual consistently.
That's good.
I like it. All right. What if the person

(01:39:20):
you're interested in, or I guess technically they didn't
say that. They said, what if they don't go
to church but are believers? So I don't know
if that means the person they're interested in or
the person they're dating. So they don't go to
church, but they are what would be considered believers
according to this person. What do you think? Is
that a red flag?
Sorry, you kind of lost me with the.

(01:39:42):
Didn'T. They didn't specify. But either you're dating somebody
or you're interested in somebody and they do not
go to church. This individual, but they say that
they're Christian, like they're a believer, they follow Jesus,
they just don't go to church. What do you
say to that?
I think that they can very much be a
Christian and they will have some deficits. So there

(01:40:04):
are a lot of people that read their word,
they pray, they have their own personal relationship with
the Lord, but there may be a deficit of
community and gathering. Now, even when it comes to
a church, it may not even be, say, a
501. It could be a house church, something that

(01:40:26):
you are gathering with the body of Christ to
hear the word and fellowship with your sisters and
brothers. And if you're not, then maybe you're in
between. Maybe they're like, in between churches. And hey,
well, on that journey, let's get you into a

(01:40:47):
church. It's possible people are out here, full relationship
with God, in between churches, whatever the case is.
So I'm going to jump in as a pastor
and just say, for me, that's a giant red
flag, though, because relationship with God is part of,
or your church journey is part of your relationship

(01:41:10):
with God.
Right.
And so when you are not engaged in that
part, it means that there's no accountability, there's no
correction. And those are two very important aspects to
our relationship with God. So if it's just you
and your Bible, who's to say that you didn't
misinterpret that scripture? Who's to say that the way
you're applying that scripture in your life is inappropriate

(01:41:32):
or not? And this is why we use a
team teaching model here at like, I don't want
it ever to be just my teaching. Right. We
want a team approach to this because I could
get something wrong. And so we need the accountability.
But if you are saying, I love Jesus, I
just don't want to go to church. And I
think there's a difference between what you talked about.

(01:41:54):
You're between churches, you're trying to find a place.
But I feel like there's almost like a pandemic
happening since COVID maybe even before that, where there's
all these people that are like, I'm spiritual, I
love Jesus. I just don't like church. So I'm
not going to go. And so I heard Tony
Evans say this years ago. He said that because
somebody was asking about following Jesus but not going

(01:42:16):
to church, and he said, you could get married
to your wife but not go home together, and
you're still married.
Right.
But your relationship will suffer.
Right.
And so the same, you can receive the grace
and the forgiveness of Jesus as your lord and
savior. Heaven could be the reward waiting for you.
But if you don't go to church, your relationship

(01:42:38):
with him will suffer.
That's good.
And so that's kind of my pastoral. That's a
scary place for me when somebody's like, I love
Jesus. I just don't want to go to church.
But that's cherry picking. This sounds bad, but I
think you mentioned it. I don't know who mentioned
it. Someone mentioned we want to cherry pick what

(01:42:59):
we believe in.
And that's the take the stuff we like. We
approach the Bible like it's a buffet.
Literally. Literally. It's so sad to think of. Okay,
you want. And it's the, like, you really want
the love of Jesus. But if you want to

(01:43:22):
love like Jesus, since you are a believer, that
means you have to love people even if, and
even regardless. And I'm not saying you're going to
have people step on you like you're a doormat.
Of course not. But if loving the Lord means
I have to love myself differently because I'm receiving
the love from the Lord, so I have grace,
I have mercy, and I'm redeemed and I'm restored,

(01:43:42):
that means I have to also love onto others
like that, too. So if there is church hurt
there or there is. Oh, I don't just do
church. People are messy. I've said that several times.
However, I have to learn. I've lived through it.
In order to love people correctly, I have to
love myself first, like how Christ loves me, and
then from there I can pour that love onto

(01:44:03):
others regardless of anything. So this is a heart
issue. So do you date someone that has a
heart issue? And heart issues can become infections and
they're contagious. So that's another avenue you have to
kind of be careful with. Are you spiritually mature?
And if you are spiritually mature, that doesn't mean
you have to do missionary flight and rescue. So

(01:44:25):
that's very important also to know that you can't
help. You're not God. Whoever this person is, if
you want to date this person in order to
heal them, help them find a church, is that
really dating? Yeah, I think that's important to also
question.
Yeah, we actually have that question, but I just
want to throw in there. So I've got a
friend that is, he was an alcoholic, he was

(01:44:46):
a drug addict, recovered all of that walking this
journey, and he pointed something out to me one
time about church hurt. He said, the church is
the only place where somebody gets hurt by the
church and then decides they're never going to go
to the church again. To any church. Right. Like,
if you're an alcoholic and you have a bad
experience at a bar, you don't give up bars,
you just find one that you like, you find

(01:45:06):
a different bar to go to. He's like, I
don't know why people get hurt by a church
and then decide, I'm never going to any church
again. And he's like, man, it's such a messed
up world. And I don't know, I loved the
perspective that he had as a former alcoholic. That's
like.
Right?
No, look, this is real. So, yeah, church hurt.
Absolutely real thing. I think people need healing from

(01:45:26):
that. But to be hurt by the church and
to give up on all churches is just a
bad idea.
That's good.
All right. Should you ever date someone in order
to get them saved? What we used to call
flirt to.
Convert, I call missionary dating.
Missionary dating, that's a good one, too. Yeah. No,
not a good idea.
No, it's. Again, those low percentages. Sometimes it works

(01:45:49):
every once in a while, but varies. Not even
every once in a while. It's so low of
it happening, especially a woman trying to convert a
man. I've heard about it way more on the
other side of that small percentage.

(01:46:10):
No, because then you're always going to be questioning,
is their relationship with God real or was it
just so that they could be in a relationship
with me? It kind of goes back to that
question we had a little bit ago. How do
you know it's, you know, they need Jesus before,
and I've got some friends that they ended up
together. They're married and stuff. But it was like,
before I would even approach them for, like, it

(01:46:32):
was like I sent some other people to witness
to them. And it never became the ultimatum in
our relationship. Like, well, we won't date unless you
give your life to Jesus. No, it was like,
look, they need Jesus first, right?
Invite them to church. Yeah, invite them. Know, if
you're a teen, invite them to youth ministry. I

(01:46:54):
think Tim Ross just had this sports journalist on,
and he got invited by his girlfriend in high
school to go to church and then in college.
So it took a while, but he was exposed
to the gospel, and eventually he gave his life
to the Lord. But trying to save him so

(01:47:16):
that you can be together part.
Yeah.
If you're in a relationship right now and that's
the case, then get some counsel about how to
walk this out.
And this can be kind of heavy, but is
it to fulfill your own selfish desire or are
you really wanting to convert for a purpose? And

(01:47:40):
that's a question that we have to kind of
throw out there to whoever this person is. Like,
okay, maybe you see this great girl. She believes
in nothing but Christ. She believes in some other
crazy stuff, but she has the qualities that I
like. Oh, I'm going to try to convert her.
Is it because you. I think we also need

(01:48:02):
to ask ourselves that question. And if that is
the case, then the relationship isn't even rooted with
what it's supposed to be rooted in and the
infractuation of wanting the chemicals that happen in your
body of, like, you see someone and then after
60 months, of 66 months. Sorry, long time. Yeah.
Of being with them, then you realize after 60

(01:48:24):
days, after those six months, you're like, whoa, this
person comes with a lot of baggage and they
have a lot of things. So again, kind of
understanding that the rush of feeling of their physical
attraction and what they could offer, it will die
down a little bit. And love is a choice.
So that's another aspect we need to throw out
there.
And should we evangelize? Yeah, absolutely. But it should

(01:48:44):
be from a place of not. I'm wanting a
good boyfriend, and so I'm going to get this
guy saved. So he'll become a good boyfriend. No,
because they are going to hell without Jesus.
Right.
That should be our motivation in being a witness
to others, not who can we date if we
add more christians to the church?
He's this. He's like everything on the list, but

(01:49:04):
he's not a Christian. And so even. It's that
thing of, like, what is the most important thing.
What's the thing right now? Probably not right now.
I'm so not a cool person. So this could
be like 20 years old now. But he's a
ten. But he's not a Christian.
Oh, yeah.
Then he's not a ten.
He's a one.

(01:49:25):
Not a ten for you.
Yeah, not good. All right, our final question on
what is now officially the longest podcast in between
sermons history. Congratulations, ladies. I think we've broken our
record each week, the last three weeks. But final
question. How can christian singles navigate the desire for
intimacy while upholding the values of purity and faithfulness?

(01:49:46):
And kind of a side question to it was,
how do you resist sexual temptation while dating? That's
the big one. We had that question asked many,
many times. Many times in a variety of ways.
Okay.
But it is longer.
It is the sex question. It's the reality of.
I'm happy that there is one because that is

(01:50:07):
a huge reality. Is the sex the sex part?
Yeah.
So it said, how can christian singles navigate the
desire for intimacy while upholding the values of purity
and faithfulness? So it's kind of two parts. So
one is on the side of being single. And
then if you are dating or when you start

(01:50:27):
dating somebody, how do you resist the sexual temptation
while dating? As you've put it a few times,
the covenant benefits.
Don't come until we're going to highlight that.
Yeah, we're going to make t shirts. It'll be
great. Covenant benefits. We'll make his and hers. Please
don't look for that anytime. We're not actually making

(01:50:48):
that. So, yeah. So how can christian singles navigate
the desire for intimacy while upholding the values of
purity and faithfulness? And then in the dating relationship,
how do you resist sexual temptation while dating?
Take it on, girl. So the first part of
how to navigate the desire. So that first part,
and I mentioned this a little bit yesterday, of

(01:51:08):
one identification that it's not wrong to desire intimacy
and to desire sex. That part is natural. Like
God put that there for most people. It's a
natural thing that comes in to desire it. So
how to navigate it? That part, I think, takes
not. Yes, you have the word, you know, what

(01:51:30):
God's word says. And I guess I just can't.
Stress is more about accountability.
Right.
And so with that, I can have my own
personal boundaries, but if I don't tell anybody else
my boundaries, like my accountability people, not just this
person, they need to know my boundaries so that

(01:51:52):
then they know how to hold me accountable to
what I said. And if they're too low, that
part because I have surely failed at not sharing
my boundaries and stubborn enough to know my boundaries,
tell my boundaries and still not do it anyway.
Lack of fear of God.
Yeah.

(01:52:12):
And so with that how to navigate that is,
again, I believe having relationships where you can be
honest about that, having those boundaries of, if you
know yourself, some people can kiss and that's that.
I don't even think personally, if you kiss and
your body has a reaction, that's not a sin.

(01:52:34):
No.
Because somebody be like, oh, my gosh, I just
can't kiss nobody because my body, that is something
your body called biology.
It's called biology.
But you know, also, like, man, where my mind
grows when I'm kissing, I probably can't do that
much. Or maybe I can't do that say at

(01:52:56):
all. And I think when it comes to sexual,
being sexual and it's so deep that you really
need to bring people in early into the conversation
that don't even give you a little bit of.
A drop that it's okay.

(01:53:16):
Right. Because then you're like, oh, well, I have
this person and they're like, girl, just repent later.
But having that and being honest with yourself. So
one thing when asked the question, I think yesterday
about what do you do if you're say, like,

(01:53:37):
home a lot? We ran out of time. But
I have learned I'm already an extrovert, but I'm
going to be outside. I'm going to be outside
and be in community as much as I can
because I know, I have learned myself that what
I thought that I was so strong in that

(01:53:59):
has changed because of decisions that I have made.
So with that, now I have to be even
more cautious of sharing and then navigating of, like,
it's not easy for some, maybe it is, but
for most people, it's not easy. When you are
attracted and you're in a relationship with someone, your

(01:54:20):
body wants to then go the next step. So
how to navigate that when you're feeling that is
not ignore your body with that and then get
people around you have those boundaries of how to
date well. And then if you all really serious

(01:54:41):
about each other, just don't prolong. Don't prolong the
situation more than it needs to be and make
that temptation longer and longer and longer until. Right,
well, it's happened or sex has happened.
Yeah. And I think it's also important to note
that you said boundaries. Boundaries are important. I came

(01:55:03):
from a christian university, and so we were talking
about this yesterday, too. How? It's difficult because some
people see sex as just the penetration. However, sex
can mean so much more in many different ways.
You need to understand your boundaries correctly. That's really
important. Some people view oral sex and other things

(01:55:29):
as, oh, that's just being on the borderline.
Right.
And that is okay if I might not do
it on that. It's so hard to go under
the. Around the bush, but it's hard to really
put into words. A lot of people can think
at times that when you do certain acts, that
that is, like, so sinful. But if you do

(01:55:51):
other acts that everything else besides penetration, and not
just.
Penetration, but penetration vaginally. There we go. Vaginally.
That one became a big thing, guys.
I got so nervous. I was, like, so awkward.
I'm doing this podcast for church, but no, most

(01:56:13):
universities that are christian based think that that is
the sole reason. That is why you shouldn't do
XYZ. And so it's really important to know what
are the boundaries. How do you put guardrails in
order to help yourself and one understand that sex
got created, but also have in mind, like, okay,
how do I avoid myself from falling into those

(01:56:35):
temptations? So it could be even, like, having a
curfew or some people that date, they believe, like,
oh, it's okay to spend the night with your
boyfriend. Strongly disagree in that you are opening doors.
You could say from the university standpoint that I'm
coming from the only background that I really know

(01:56:56):
of. A lot of college christians are like, yes,
but we're not having sex. We are spending the
night together. We play house, but we're not having
sex. And so you're kind of opening the door.
We can just call that stupid.
It's foolishness. It's foolishness.
Dumb idea.
And so all of that is really hard because
you aren't technically committing or planning to commit the

(01:57:18):
act of sex, but you are low key opening
doors and justifying it by saying, oh, we're just
cuddling. So, again, we need to have those boundaries
in check.
Yeah. No, I think it's not a fun conversation
for christians to have, or especially for singles to
have, because I do meet a lot of single
christians that are looking for their outlet. They're like,

(01:57:39):
I've got this sexual drive. I know that sex
before marriage is not viewed favorably in scripture, and
so they're just trying to find an outlet for
the sex, and there isn't one. And I think
that it just has to be plainly. No, it
sucks. Totally sucks. I get it. But there is

(01:58:01):
no outlet for that.
Right.
And then that's why a lot of people think
that masturbation or even sex toys or anything along
those lines is a safe sin, because that's no
one.
There's no such thing as.
Exactly.
Sin is sin, and it all leads to hell.
Right. And so those are things that we as
a church need to talk more about. Like, okay,

(01:58:23):
how do you handle these situations? Guys, I could
tell you so many stories, like, so many college
stories that I know that you're like.
And from a christian college.
It's a christian college.
Come on now. Way more liberal as a christian
school in olivet.
Yeah. So those stories of, like, oh, the shameness
of saying, I am doing masturbation, and now I'm

(01:58:49):
falling into other objects, foreign objects to put in
my body in order to feel things. But it's
okay because the Bible doesn't really specifically talk about
it. We need to talk about that because the
Bible specifically says all sexual morality. So those details
of cherry picking certain verses in order to justify
your flesh, that's major. Yeah.
I think the most important part of the conversation

(01:59:11):
is to understand. Jesus said, you have to die
in order to follow me. Like, pick up your
cross. That's not a random stick or a random
piece of wood. It was a device for death.
Right?
So when he says, pick up your cross and
follow me, he's saying, crucify your desires, your flesh.

(01:59:31):
So if you are not married, there is no
outlet for that sexual desire. And, yeah, that sucks,
but that's part of following Christ in a godly
way. And that's what we're all called to do.
Right?
And look, when we mess up, there's grace, there's
forgiveness, there's love. But to approach that thing and
just, you know, God designed my body this way,

(01:59:54):
and so I need a release. No, there's no
excuse. There's no loophole. No, it's no means no.
And so, yeah, we have to crucify our flesh,
pick up our cross, follow him, and, man, there's
times when that isn't easy.

(02:00:15):
And I'm sorry, get around some people that you
can be so bold with that. You like that
sex is not like this taboo word, but being
able to be completely honest about this is how
I feel.
Right.
And for whatever reason, saying it just like that
and it can sound crazy, but saying that to

(02:00:38):
the Lord the next is like, God, this is
how I feel exactly right now. Exactly. This is
what. But I'm going to just give this to
you and tell a friend as well. Like, this
is what is happening. And for whatever reason, because
of how he has structured it, us confessing, it
also say, heals us. Yeah. It frees you, and

(02:01:00):
it frees you that you feel this freedom. And
if you say desire to be married, and that's
the pursuit of, like, I'm going to pray and
believe that this won't say, like, last forever. Hopefully
it's not for some. It's been really long, 20,
30, 40 years of waiting.

(02:01:21):
But, yeah, I wish that I had a more
encouraging answer. But, I mean, even Paul, who was
single, said, look, jesus was single. I'm single. You
should be single, too. It's going to be great
for you to be single, but it's better for
you to get married than to burn with passion,
right? He's like, look, your sex drive is real,

(02:01:43):
and if you can't resist that, then you should
get married, work out.
There are different things people do.
Take a cold shower, go hit the gym, get
you some expenses, go for a run.
Sheets, like those different things that you're taking care
of your body, that I think plays into that
sensuality part, that you're still getting to experience a

(02:02:04):
level of comfort that have nothing to do with
sex, right. But that if you need comfort, if
I need to just release this, I'm going to
go work out or I'm going to go to
a music session. Like, whatever your thing is that
helps you to get past the moment.

(02:02:24):
And even checking yourself, like, is this lust or
love? Am I lusting right now or am I
craving love?
Am I ovulating?
Period.
It's like all these different things of, like, ovulation
time. Let me.
You're horny.
Stay away. Let's just talk. Not today. Those kind

(02:02:45):
of things.
I think even we're so quick to run away
from your feelings. I mean, I'm a runner. Like,
if I feel sad, I'm going to go my
little corner. I'm not going to tell anyone. So
some people, they're really easy to express their feelings
with. Some people, they struggle with expressing their feelings.
I'm one of those people. I think you mentioned.

(02:03:06):
Soul needs some time when you guys get heated
and she goes one way, maybe it's a latina
thing, but we go our separate ways and we
just need to think and process our thoughts. Same
thing when it comes to just. It could be
ovulation or it could be the desire of wanting
sex. You need to check yourself and not run
away from it. And so even, like, praying or
even taking the time to see, like, okay, if

(02:03:29):
what I'm watching, hearing, or saying is provoking something
in me, most likely is lust if this is
stemming from a time of the month or something
along those lines, and it's just biological. Okay, then
we need to do something about it. So either
way, there has to be an action that's taken,
not just sitting in your room by yourself.
Yeah. I love something you said earlier about guardrails.

(02:03:51):
And I think that more people need to put
up guardrails in their lives in this category of
sexual sin. And making sure that they understand guardrails
purpose is so, like, if you don't want to
go in the ditch and the ditch has sin,
you don't put the guardrail in the ditch.
Right.
You need to put the guardrail way up the
hill, way away from the. Because what you want

(02:04:13):
is you hit that guardrail and you haven't sinned.
Right. Some people put the guardrail in the ditch,
and it's like, by the time you hit the
guardrail, it's already too late. There's no saving it
now. And so just make sure that you put
those guardrails in the appropriate places. And I think
that for everybody, it varies slightly. When Sol and

(02:04:34):
I started dating, she hated it. I was like,
hey, we're not going to kiss for a while.
And we didn't put a date on it. It
wasn't one of those, hey, we're not going to
kiss until our wedding day. I've got some friends
that did that. And I was like, you all
are weird. I love them dearly, but that wasn't
me. But it was one of those where every
relationship that I had, it moved into a sexual

(02:04:54):
temptation place way too fast. And it was like
this became the whole purpose of the relationship, was
the physical intimacy. And it was like, look, I
want to do something different with you. I feel
a different way with you, that this is a
more important relationship for me. And so I don't
want to cross that line. And so I don't

(02:05:15):
even remember how long it was. It was probably
a couple of months before we actually had our
first kiss. And that was of dating, seriously.
So that's in dating something. It's kind of long,
several months to wait to kiss.
It was very long for me. Usually I did
the kissing before the dating. So it was a
very different world for me. People are like, man,

(02:05:36):
I really need to find a new church. My
pastor is playing the simpsons.
I appreciate stories, you know what I mean? Of
real life stories.
So get those guardrails, take a cold shower, go
to the gym. There are practical things that you
can do. Travel. Yeah. Get with a group of
people, hang.
Out, get out of your house.

(02:05:56):
And if there's something, chances are your music or
the shows you're watching, movies, there's something that is
triggering you in those moments. And I hate using
phrases like triggering, but it's the reality of it.
You watch something and you realize about halfway in
that you're just watching it because of the attractiveness
of the person.
Right.
And now it's just going to create some bad

(02:06:17):
thoughts. Kill that. Kill some music. If the music
that you're listening to is all about hookups and
all that, you need some better music. Tiff can
help.
That's good. Hey, shameless plug. That's good.
Tiffany, Hans. Music.
All right, so that was all 17 of our
questions, I believe. Longest podcast in history. Any final

(02:06:39):
thoughts, ladies? That single life.
I think you really just got to enjoy the
season that you are now so that you can
receive the blessing that's to come. If you don't
enjoy the blessings that you have now, why do
you think you're going to enjoy the blessings that
you're going to receive in the future? And so

(02:07:00):
that's some hard truth. But truth is truth. And
if you don't want to follow the truth, then
you're a fool. That's an improper isaiah. We can
look anywhere.
Gut punch.
One last slap before we're done.
I think to enjoy being single, and to me,

(02:07:20):
because you can do whatever. When you walk into
a room with singles, you should feel some life
there. A married person should feel some life that's
different and not. You walk into a room full
of married people and it's like they're tired and
exhausted. But there's an energy that, I mean, sometimes,
but some life, and not because we're not busy,

(02:07:43):
that's another thing. Singles be really busy, too. But
something about being able to enjoy that it's not
gloom and doom. And then I think on the
church side of just as much as we pray
for married couples, start praying. So you can be
sensitive to pray about singles. Marriages are under attack.

(02:08:04):
Singles are under attack. And so just be as
mindful about married people as you are about singles.
And both of them can be. Both of them
can be lit whether you get married or not.
I love it. That's why we're the body of
Christ. We're caring for the other members. Yeah, I
love that. If you're single, be praying for the

(02:08:25):
married people. Married people be praying for the single
people. Let's do this together. I like it. All
right, that's it for today. We are back next
week with a brand new conversation. We are going
to be talking about becoming more like Jesus. It's
going to be awesome. Totally different than this conversation,
but it's.
Going to be good.
I'll see you there.
Not about ovulation.
Not about ovulation at all. We're going to talk

(02:08:47):
about becoming like Jesus. So check it out.

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