The Power and Presence of the Holy Spirit

Episode Transcript
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Pastor Brent McQuay (00:12):
Hey, everybody. Welcome back to another episode
of Between Sermons where we get to
continue the conversation from Sunday. Just kind
of getting some dialogue going around the
sermon subject matter. And so we're actually
wrapping up our final conversation about the
truth. And to do so, I got
to hang out with the man, the
myth, the legend, Carlton McCarthy. Man, you

(00:32):
did an amazing job on Sunday.

Pastor Carlton McCarthy (00:34):
Thanks. I appreciate it.

On Pentecost Sunday.

Pentecost Sunday.

Yeah.

Lee. Pastors out.

I think you had a heart attack
the day that I was like, hey,
Carlton, I'm going to have you preach
on Pentecost, and I'm not going to
be there.

And I saw Pastor Jerry, and I
was like, Pastor Jerry, I thought you
had a graduation to go to. He's
like, oh, it's not until 130.

Yeah, yeah.

I was like, all right.

Yeah. He made me look like the
heathen. I was like, look, I'm trying
to have a moment with my family.
You know, I'm cooking breakfast for him.
And so he's like, I'm going to
church. Like, all right. I mean, hey,
I did put you on the tv.
So shout out to our online ministry
team for making that available.

Yeah, that was nice.

That was really cool. I got. I
felt like I was a part of
the service. You did a shout out
from my son and people cheered and
stuff.

So everybody responded well to Jack.

Made me feel, you know, connected and
part of the church, even though I
was. I was playing hooky, apparently. But.
So Pentecost, it's kind of a significant
moment in the church history, especially for
a charismatic church like ours. What is.
What is. What is? I almost said,
what is charismatic?

Charismatic, no.

What is. We could. We could go
anywhere with this one, but no. So,
like, what makes Pentecost such a special
moment for the body of Christ, biblically
speaking, but also for us in 2024
as a charismatic church.

Wow, there's a lot of components to
Pentecost Sunday. I think it's the introduction
of the Holy Spirit residing in us
for the work of God in us.
And there's multiple facets of the work
of God in us. There's making us
more like Christ. There's ministering to unbelievers.

(02:10):
You know, there's the immediate access to
the Father. That's all in that. But
for Pentecost Sunday, we see the work
of the Holy Spirit move in the
Old Testament. I'm almost hesitant to say
that it's an introduction, but almost like
a reintroduction to this new.

Yeah, because in Genesis one, the spirit
is hovering over absolutely right.

So it's not a new, it's not
an introduction of the Holy Spirit, but
in that particular type of manifestation in
our lives, him as a personal guide
to us inside of our hearts and
minds, working in us to do the
work of the Lord. And it's also
important, uh, Pentecost Sundays, because Jesus sets
it up after he dies and is

(02:57):
risen. He sets up the Holy Spirit
coming to take his place as an
advocate to us individually. And I think
that that's really important. I think that
what helps our belief in Christ is
the fact that that was fulfilled. Not
only did he fulfill him, his. His
resurrection, he prophesied his resurrection and then

(03:18):
did it. He also prophesied that there's
going to be an advocate that's going
to come and reside with us. And
I think, like, that is significantly as
important as him, you know, being resurrected.
So.

Absolutely.

I think Pentecost Sunday is tremendously important.
The Holy Spirit comes to believers, and
I think that's important because what happens
to believers after they receive the fire
of the Holy Spirit? In that moment,
they start speaking in other languages, ministering
the gospel to unbelievers. And so if
we want to try to identify the

(03:52):
work of the Holy Spirit in our
life, let's look at the first thing
that believers did when they received the
Holy Spirit, and that's ministering to the
gospel, to unbelievers. And then you can
go on through acts, chapter two with
all the other things that the Holy
Spirit did in those moments, all the
way to Peter preaching this wonderful message
of Jesus Christ. And I think that

(04:15):
that's really important. We make the Holy
Spirit a person, personal God, a personal
influence, a personal power in our lives.
And I like to go back to
Pentecost Sunday because the first thing that
believers did when they received the Holy
Spirit was preach the gospel.

Yep.

And I think that we kind of
get away from that because we're selfish
western Christian Americans.

What does the Holy Spirit do for
me, exactly.

It's all about what the Holy Spirit
can do for me and guiding me
in my day to day life and
changing my behavior. And that's all good,
because we need sanctification that the Holy
Spirit brings to us, setting us apart
from the world, helping us overcome our
sin, blah, blah, blah, telling us which
direction to go in. You know, in
our mind that all.

Of that is still for the purpose
of reaching the unbeliever.

Absolutely right.

You're not reaching the unbeliever when you're
still steeped in sin and they're looking
at you and being like you're nobody.

Because Jesus said he was sent and
sanctified, he's sending us and we need
to be sanctified. So I think we
look at the being sanctified portion of
it being set apart and not the
being sent part of it. Like we
are being sent into the world to

(05:30):
bring salvation to the world.

Go. Therefore.

Yeah, but we need to be purged
and cleansed in that process of being
sent. But we say focus on the
persian and cleansing part. I mean, set
apart from of the world and not
the. Wait a minute. This is only
because we are being sent into the
world to bring the message of Jesus
Christ. And so the day of Pentecost

(05:53):
is our great example of the work
of the Holy Spirit in believers and
what needs to happen.

Yeah, I love it. That's awesome. So
we celebrate that day.

Absolutely.

It's a reminder of what God did
then, and it's a reminder that he
still does it today. So I think
that's important. You said a word a
moment ago called the advocate, and I
want to come back to that in
a second. But first, because we're talking
about the Trinity, I want to bring
up our definition of the Trinity again,
just help people kind of draw your
sky.

Let's do it.

Talking about. So we worship one God
who's eternally existed in three distinct co
equal, co eternal persons. The Father, the
Son, and the Holy Spirit. That is
the definition of the Trinity. And if
nothing else, my desire as a pastor
is at the end of these three
weeks, people would know that we worship
one God who is eternally existed in

(06:42):
three distinct co equal, co eternal persons,
Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

Yes.

And so I want to. What we're
going to talk about today is really
just emphasizing the Holy Spirit in that
capacity, that role. And we do have
to acknowledge the fact that he is
a he, not an it, that the
Holy Spirit is a person, not a
substance. So a lot of people are
like, they ask the question, what is
the Holy Spirit? And there's something in

(07:08):
me every time I hear that question
that just wants to cringe a little
bit. And like, I get it. Like
people, it's confusing because a father is
a person, a son is a person,
a spirit feels like a thing. It's
like a power. So it's like, what
is this? But the proper question is,
who is the holy Spirit? Not what
is the Holy Spirit? Because the Holy

(07:28):
Spirit is not a something for us
to use someone for us to know.
And I want our people to understand
that difference that this is not a
something for us to use or something
that, you know, it's a power. It's
a whatever. No, no, no. This is
a person. And your goal, just like

(07:49):
your goal of knowing God the Father,
your goal of knowing Christ the Son,
is to know the Holy Spirit, know
his personality.

Know his personality. It's not a power
flowing from the father and the Son.
He is not a power from God
that we use in our day to
day lives. He is God with power.
And I think that that's the distinction
that we need to make. And it's
because we kind of liken his movements
and his attributes in a mysterious way

(08:19):
that doesn't have, like, you know, personal
identifiers as a person, but it's because
we need to know the Holy Spirit
better as he presents himself, and not
just know him as a force or
a wind or a power that we
utilize as a good luck charm in
our day to day lives, but that
he is God with power.

Yeah. And he's got with us.

Yes, absolutely.

Like, so the. The reality, God the
father and Jesus the son are both
in heaven.

Yes.

Jesus love spirit, and. And so I
love man. We're gonna go all over
the place with this conversation. I love
the emphasis you put on. Jesus is
saying, it's better for you that I
leave. It's better for you that I
go so that I can send.

I wanted to say, jesus, what are
you talking about? It's better for you
to leave. No, it's better for you
to stay. But Jesus says, no, something
better is coming for you.

This is the guy that the disciples
have spent three years walking with. I
mean, other than the moment when he
sends them out just to come back.

Yeah.

They are with him day and night.

Right.

24 hours a day, seven days a
week, 365 days a year. For three
years.

Yeah.

And he's like, all right, guys, I'm
out. He's like, but it's a good
thing. Yeah, it's good that I'm leaving.
How is that a good thing? Like,
how, how can Jesus say, hey, it's
better for you that that, that I'm
not around?

Yeah. Because Christ and flesh was only
in one spot at one particular time,
not being able to affect the masses,
except his words, which could have been
passed around. You know, the knowledge of
Jesus Christ spread throughout the land quickly.
But that interpersonal relationship and power that

(10:14):
he had was encapsulated with him and
the disciples as he moved during his
ministry. Now we see other areas of
the region that he was living in.
Affected by his ministry. But there's nothing
like the Holy Spirit coming down to
each individual person. So the day of
Pentecost, the Holy Spirit came down and

(10:35):
dwelled with each individual believer. And then
now they're able to be sent out
into the far corners of the earth
with Christ, with God, with the Father,
with the Holy Spirit in them, and
not just being regulated to a region
of where Jesus lived and walked.

Yeah.

So I think that's, that's one main
importance of why Jesus said it was
better for him to leave. Yeah.

I mean, if we look at it.
So Jesus had twelve disciples. Of the
twelve, there was three that seemed to
be much closer to him than the
others. Then there was a bunch of
people that kind of crowded around him,
but they didn't have that intimate relationship.
So, like, there was a limited amount
of people that could truly know Jesus.
That limit is removed with the Holy

(11:20):
Spirit because you get an opportunity to
know the Holy Spirit at the same
level I get to know the Holy
Spirit. And I love what one of
our former executive pastors used to always
say. You can be as close to
God as you want to be. And
so it's one of those things where
it's like you get to know the
Holy Spirit as much as you want
to. It doesn't matter where you were
born, how far away from him you

(11:41):
are. And so when Jesus is walking
the earth, you don't have that opportunity.

Yeah. You don't have to try to
penetrate a crowd.

Right.

To get to God. You know, you
don't have to climb through a roof
to get down to where God is.
God can reside with us and in
us, and we can get as close
to him as we want to be.
Yeah.

Isn't that a beautiful thing?

Right? Yep. So that's the power of
the Holy Spirit being with us and
the importance of Jesus saying, it's better
that I go.

Yeah. And so, and within that, even
that scripture, if you go back and
look at it, you get the personhood
of the Holy Spirit. Right. I'm gonna
send him. He will be with you.
Right. Not it. I'm not gonna send
it. It's not. It will be with
you. No, he, so we get the
personal side in that we get the
deity side of it because it's the

(12:29):
Holy Spirit does things that only God
can do.

Right.

And there's a lot of scriptures that
we could go through and pull that
out, but I think that the understanding
here is that he's fully, fully God,
fully a person to be known, and
also does some pretty incredible things in
our lives.

Yep.

And so I want to come back
to that. That word that you threw
out a little bit ago, the advocate.
What does that refer to? What does
that mean?

So an advocate. And thank you, Pastor
Asaphor. Morning, devotional man.

He broke me this morning. Okay, so
this morning. Yeah. So this morning we're
talking about the Holy Spirit. In our
staff meeting, Pastor Asa is leading a
devotional, and he had mistyped, or. Or
spell check had fixed paraclete, which is
the. What is that, the Greek for
advocate? So it's just, it's the same
word. It's just different language. But Paraclete

(13:20):
was re, I don't know, fixed, I
guess, on his software as parakeet. He's
a dove and a parakeet. And I
think it was Katie typed in tweet,
tweet image. We. I don't think we
regained composure. No, we did ten minutes,
killed the devotion, and I'm never gonna

(13:41):
be able to look at the Bible
the same again.

Right.

Every time it says the dove descended,
I'm gonna be picturing a parakeet now.

Right.

But, yeah, so help us get back
on track.

Yeah. So advocate. I think it's a,
it's a appropriate word because it encapsulates
all of the ways we can identify
a helper, someone who is on our
side, you know, assuming that we're doing
the work of God on our side
as a helper, guiding us in life

(14:11):
from comfort to counselor, like, in any
kind of way that we need help
in our journey and walk to be
more like Christ. Advocate kind of defines
what that is. And I like how
Jesus says another advocate, because he's our

(14:32):
first advocate, because the second advocate that
comes is going to remind us of
what the first advocate has taught us.
And so I like the fact that
Jesus places himself in line with the
Holy Spirit and places the Holy Spirit
in line with himself. As you get
salvation in Christ, that helps us because
he's our advocate from that standpoint, and

(14:54):
then the journey of living out that
salvation comes from the Holy Spirit, and
he helps us and that aspect. So
I just like the word advocate because
it just encapsulates all the definitions of
helper that we can possibly think of
in any way that we need another
leg to stand on, or we need
somebody to push us in the back
to move us forward or give us

(15:15):
direction or guidance in our life, or
to help us with our emotions and
our behavior, our day to day journey,
how we relate to people, how we
love people. It's the Holy Spirit. He's
the advocate fully, completely in every part
of our lives. So I appreciate Jesus
bringing that to our attention of who
the Holy Spirit is and making the
parallel of equality and oneness between him

(15:36):
and the Holy Spirit.

Yeah, I love that. You know, there's
this legal connotation to it as well.

Yeah.

The advocate is. It's our attorney that
is defending us. Yeah, he's our legal
representative. So when there is a claim
against us, it's the Holy Spirit that
steps in to defend us. There's just
something beautiful about that, that language. And
the Bible actually does that several times
where it brings in, like, court proceedings
into, like, understanding of even how the

(16:05):
judge is the one who pays the
penalty for us.

Yeah.

So it's, I don't know, there's just
something for me, I guess. It just,
it's, I don't know, it's compelling. It's
interesting.

Yeah. And also need legal represents representation
when I need the Holy Spirit to
intercede on my behalf to the Father.

I messed up.

Holy Spirit. Yes, Holy Spirit. Here's my
attorney, Father. Like, I messed up. I'm
sorry, but here's my legal aid, my
attorney to come and to plead my
case to you through the justification of
Jesus Christ.

I plead guilty.

Yes.

However, my advocate has some things he
would like to say on my behalf.

Yeah. So I love the fact that
that is included in the definition of
advocate. So, I mean, the Holy Spirit,
he helps us in every way spiritually,
in our behavior, our personality. I really
appreciate how Jesus sits. Sets that up
for believers.

Yeah. And it really is one of
those, I guess, things where I think
maybe our relationship with the Holy Spirit
should be the most, I don't know,
profound, the most prominent. Right. Because he's
the one that is with us.

Absolutely right.

So, like, the relationship, the understanding with
the Holy Spirit, not to downplay God
the Father or downplay Jesus in any
way, but it is. There should be
this daily interaction with the Holy Spirit,
like, as he walks with us.

Yeah. Because he's here with us now.
You know, until we're rejoined with the
Father in heaven, we have the Holy
Spirit. We have God with us now.
And so. And this, like, sometimes kind
of shocks us or shocks me, at
least. It's like, you know, wait, the
Holy Spirit is with me every moment
of my life. Like, I don't need

(17:58):
to, you know, create this, you know,
grand presentation of myself to the Father
when I need a word or encouragement
or anything like that. Those times are
great. You know, that. That time when
I go in my prayer closet and
I'm crying out to the Father for
my needs or I'm worshiping him or
giving him praise. But in my day

(18:19):
to day life, when I'm in my
car, when I'm at work, when I'm
walking in the grocery store, I have
an opportunity to talk to God through
the Holy Spirit that lives in me.
And I think like that is so
profound that I have to think about
what a privilege it is to have
this superpower to have God in me
with me that I can talk to

(18:39):
and communicate with and worship when I
need to. Even still more than just
needing help for my day to day
life, I can worship God because the
Holy Spirit, because God is with me,
I don't need to wait till I
go to church on Sunday or go
to corporate prayer on Wednesday. Like even
just sitting at my desk, I can

(19:00):
thank God because the Holy Spirit is
with me. Yeah.

You don't have to go to where
God is.

Right, exactly.

God came to where you are.

Right.

And that's a beautiful thing and it
is a privilege to have. And so
I think that there are people, though
I was actually listening to Alistair beg
talk about this, where he talked about
how there's, there's some people that have
such a disrespect of the Holy Spirit
where it's almost like he didn't say

(19:26):
this, but this is, this is my
language for it that I've heard before.
You know, some people view the Trinity
as God the Father, Jesus, Son and
the Holy Bible. It's like they just
kind of eliminate the work of the
Holy Spirit and like, look, I love
the Bible. That's my jam. That's what

(19:47):
I'm gonna be focused on. But, man,
to neglect the Holy Spirit just because
it makes you feel weird or because
some people have abused it. Because I
think there is on the other side
of that, and this is what Aleister
was talking about, is that there's also
those that kind of overemphasize the Holy
Spirit at the detriment of the other
two parts of the Trinity. And what
I've found. And this is where we'll

(20:09):
start getting into. There's some questions that
people have about the Holy Spirit, but
some people get into this place where
they hyper emotionalize everything. And so everything
is just, you know, the Holy Spirit
said to me over coffee this morning,
it's like, okay, did he, or were
you just having a random thing? And
so, and that's, that's where it's like
we have to understand that the only

(20:30):
infallible word from God is the Bible.

Right, right.

So when the Holy Spirit speaks to
us, like, I have to preface this
a lot of times where tell people,
look, I don't know if this is
holy spirit or if this is bad
pizza. Like, I don't know. And so
it's funny, because I get the question
all the time, how do you know
when it's the Holy Spirit or when
it's just your own thoughts? And I'm
like, man, I'm a pastor. I've been
doing this for 20 years, and there's
still moments where I'm like, I don't

(20:54):
know fully. I'm not fully sure.

Yeah, a lot of times you don't
know in the moment. Yeah, it takes.
Sometimes it takes. So I do this
with my son. We could be having
a conversation that in hindsight, I know
the Holy Spirit is part of the
conversation because my son will come to
me the next day with the verse
of the day. And the verse of
the day would be directly related to
what we're talking about now. Could that

(21:18):
be coincidence? Absolutely. But the Holy Spirit
helped him and me recognize that he
was in that moment of revelation, that
me and him were having that conversation.
I talked about it when I took
my wife's car in for the recall.
In the moment that I'm having the
conversation with my consciousness and my anger,

(21:40):
that they don't have the part, I'm
not fully aware that it's the Holy
Spirit that's working in me to try
to shift my anger to be self
control until I have a reflection of
the moment. And I'm in prayer, and
I. And I, you know, because I'm
praying about my day and what's. What
the needs are for, you know, what's
going on in my life. And I

(22:01):
recognize that man. That was the Holy
Spirit trying to get me on track
to have the fruits of the spirit.
And now I can sit back and
really go back through that moment and
say, man, the Holy Spirit was speaking
to me like this. This is what
he was telling me in that moment.
But for me at the dealership, it
was me and my consciousness. And it

(22:22):
was like, if you would have asked
me, in that moment, is the Holy
Spirit speaking to me? I probably like,
what are you talking about? I'm waiting
for this guy to tell me if
he's got the part or not. But
in hindsight, I'm looking back and like,
man, the Holy Spirit was screaming at
me, telling me to have self control.
And so a lot of times, do
you know in a moment if the
Holy Spirit is speaking to you? No,

(22:43):
but this is why the Holy Spirit
is so good, because he will remind
you of these moments where he's like,
hey, I was trying to get your
attention in this area or trying to
move you in this course of action.
And what you start to do is
you start to build on your judgment
of righteousness coming from the Holy Spirit.

(23:03):
So the next time I have that
interaction with my consciousness, I can say,
wait a minute, I think the Holy
Spirit is trying to get me to
move in this direction because of my
previous experience in hindsight, looking back, of
how the Holy Spirit had spoke to
me when I didn't recognize it was
him talking to me. So now, in
the future, when I'm at a moral
impasse and my sinful nature is going

(23:25):
against a moral righteousness or moral desire
of good, I can say to myself,
I think this is the Holy Spirit
telling me to move in this direction.
And then it's always helpful, because the
Holy Spirit doesn't say or tell you
anything that's not written in the word
of God. And so you will get

(23:46):
confirmation from the word of God of
the direction that the Holy Spirit is
taking you in. And what he's saying
to you. If you can't find it
in the word of God, it's not
the Holy Spirit. And I don't think
the Holy Spirit is saying anything to
us that cannot be found in the
word, in the Bible. And so, you
know, for a lot of us, in

(24:06):
a moment, do we know that the
Holy Spirit is speaking to us? Probably
not.

Yeah.

But as we dig into the word
of God and as we are in
prayer, the Holy Spirit reminds us of
how he has spoken to us in
those moments. And then going forward, we
can start to recognize the voice of
the Holy Spirit in us.

Yeah, I think ultimately, for me, like
anybody that says that they know without
a doubt, 100% certainty when the Holy
Spirit is speaking. When he's not, I
question them. That puts me in a
place of. I have extreme doubt of
that. I think that, yes, there are
things that we can do to better
hear the voice of the Holy Spirit,

(24:44):
that we can do things that will
better align us with knowing when it
is and when it isn't. But at
the end of the day, it's still.
It's like, okay, was that my flesh
speaking? Was that just my conscience speaking?
Was that just, you know, a good
thought? Right, right. And so, yeah, there's
gonna be hearing his voice, you know,
as Jesus tells us, you know, the

(25:05):
sheep know my voice. Right. And so
the more you're listening to the Holy
Spirit, the more you can catch on
to things and be like, I think
that was him right there. Right. We
take it back to scripture and measure
everything by scripture. You know, we're told
in scripture to test the spirit. Right.
Is this really like a prophetic word?
You know, and so random story, but

(25:25):
I had this happen here recently where
somebody came to me and was like,
hey, so this guy claimed the Holy
Spirit was telling him something, but it
felt a little weird at the time.
What do you think? And it was
one of those where it was like
he gave a prophetic word that there
was going to be 3 million people
added to the specific church. This is
a, it was an international thing. And

(25:46):
so I just sat there. I kind
of laughed at it because the city
that that church is located in has
a population of about 3 million. So
you're saying 100% of the city is
going to come, not get saved, but
go to this church? Only this church,
not any of the other churches in
the area, but the 100% of the
population is going to all of a

(26:07):
sudden come to this church? I don't
think that was the holy spirit. I
think that was just a guy that's
really excited about what God is doing
and really excited about what's happening, and
I think he just misspoke.

Yeah.

And so we got to be cautious.
We got to be careful with that
stuff. I talked to my dad about
this years ago when I was just
starting off in ministry, and I was
like, hey, what do you do when
somebody pulls the God card? Like, when
you're talking with somebody and they're like,
yeah, but God told me. And he's
like, oh, I just stopped the conversation.
I'm like, what do you mean? He's
like, no, if somebody pulls the God

(26:37):
card, you're like, if we're talking and
they're wanting to do something and I'm
trying to give them advice or wisdom,
they're like, well, God told me. He's
like, oh, well, if God told you,
what are you coming to me for?
Right? And it was one of those
where I was like, so do you
believe them? He's like, not usually like,
but you still just stopped the conversation.
And he's like, yeah, just because if
they're convinced that God has spoken to

(26:57):
them, what am I going to say
to convince them that it's not God?
Like, in those moments, you just have
to let the person do their thing,
and, you know, afterwards they'll discover, oh,
that wasn't, that wasn't the Holy Spirit.

And it's easy for us to say
that it was the Holy Spirit. When
the Holy Spirit is telling us the
thing that we want to do.

That you want to do, it's like
if the Holy Spirit is always telling
you the thing that you're wanting anyways,
right?

It could be the devil.

Right? It could be the devil.

Like, yeah, go ahead, talk to that
girl.

Yeah, exactly. Oh, yeah, that's totally that.
I was listening to Holy Spirit told.

Me to marry you.

I think. Yeah, I think it was.
I think it was. Mike Winger was
talking about this the other day. He
was talking about how when he was
in youth ministry, the number one thing
that the Holy Spirit was telling kids
was who they were going to marry.
And the number one thing that they
were always wrong about was who they
were going to marry. I was like,
yeah, I was a youth pastor. I
remember those days.

God told me, and the Holy Spirit
is not going to make you feel
weird about what he's saying to you,
too. If you're questioning, like, man, that
sounds weird. Not that the content of
what was said was weird, but sometimes
you get a weird. You know, how
you feel about something that comes to
your consciousness is like. Or what someone
tells you that the Holy Spirit said.

(28:09):
And it's like, I don't know about
that because the Holy Spirit is not
going to be weird, actually. He's going
to give you peace and comfort with
what he's saying to you. So if
you feel kind of weird about what
someone's telling you that the Holy Spirit
is saying, nine out of ten is
not the Holy Spirit.

And look, if it's. So here's one
of my tests. Is it bringing conviction?
Right? Like, if this. This voice is
whatever I'm thinking, if it's bringing conviction,
then whether it's the Holy Spirit or
not, it's probably a good thing for
me to do.

Right, right.

And so, like, sometimes it's like somebody's
like, man, I just. I really don't
know if I feel like the Holy
Spirit might be telling me to evangelize
to my neighbor, and I just don't
know if it's holy spirit or not.
Like, the Bible tells you to do
that. Like, sure, it's the Holy Spirit.
Is it really the Holy Spirit? I
don't know. It doesn't matter. You're supposed
to evangelize to your neighbor, so take
that opportunity. And if it was the
Holy Spirit, then awesome. And if it's

(29:02):
not the Holy Spirit, that's okay. You're
still doing the thing that you're supposed
to do.
So, like, I remember when I was.
I was probably, like, I don't know,
15 years old. We're on a missions
trip in Mexico. We're having this prayer
gathering, and I think I've told this
story before, but there's this open door
out to the street, and there's, like,
a group of kids that keep walking

(29:23):
by and kind of peeking in to
see what we're doing. And eventually, like,
this group of kids, like, stop at
the doorway. And so I'm looking over
there, and holy spirit is like, go
invite them in. And now I'm an
introvert. I didn't speak Spanish at the
time. You know, I was like, nope,
that's weird.
And I just kept. I just kept
praying. And then it was like, holy

(29:45):
Spirit was like, hey, go invite them
in. Go invite them in. Go invite
them in. And it was one of
those things where, like, I could not
shake this thought. I could not stop
this. And, like, I was like. I
was like. And so finally I was
like, all right. So I went over
there and didn't speak any Spanish. They
didn't speak any English, so I did,
like, hand gestures. Like, come inside, like,
it'll be great. And, like, they looked

(30:07):
at me, they looked at each other.
They burst out laughing, and then they
just ran down the street. Like, they
ran away. And I'm like, thanks a
lot, holy spirit.
Jerk. I just. I had, like, a
horrible moment. Like, because I'm already, like,
as an introvert with social anxiety. Like,
that was a worst case scenario. The
fact that they laughed in my face
and run off. I'm like, this is

(30:28):
the worst moment ever.
So I go back inside, and I'm
like, mad at God. I'm like, this
is stupid. And I don't know where
somebody else from the team comes over,
and I don't know if they had
watched everything that happened or what, but
they said, you know, the Holy Spirit
just led me to come and tell
you it's about your obedience, not about
the results. And I was like, okay.
So today, I look back at that

(30:50):
moment, and I'm like, okay. That was
definitely the Holy Spirit talking. The Holy
Spirit was leading me to a place
of obedience that he knows I didn't
want to do the thing that he
was telling me to do, and so
I went in obedience, and that was.
And I was like, but I did
the thing you were telling me to
do. Shouldn't they get saved? He's like,
that's not what it was about in
this moment. And so I think that,
yeah, we. A lot of times, I

(31:11):
love what you said. It's hindsight where
we really know whether it was holy
spirit or not. But I think if
the Holy Spirit is telling you to
do something that the Bible is already
affirming for you to do, go ahead
and do it, right, right.
And if it's something that, like, especially
if it's low risk. Right. Like, if.
If you're like, man, I feel like
the Holy Spirit's telling me to quit
my job. It's like, okay, do you
like your job? I love my job.

(31:32):
Okay, do you need your job? I
really need my job. Okay, well, then
I would be really, really certain. Wait
for some confirmation from other places. And
look, I know people that have quit
jobs without anything else ready for them.
And they're like, I just.
I was so positively convinced it was
the Holy Spirit. So I went ahead
and did it, and things turned out

(31:52):
great. Like, it really was holy spirit,
that it created an opportunity for them
to travel and do ministry.

And I wanted to quit my job,
but I'm like, I'm not gonna kill
a cash cow. Like, I'm getting paid
every two weeks. Like, why would I
quit? But I felt like, I think
God was telling me that it was
time for a transition, which led me
here at CLC. But my prayer was
not that I'm gonna quit, but God,

(32:18):
I need you to take me out
of this place and put me where
you want me to be. Like something
at this size, you have to be
the one with your hand.

I need to know that. I know
that.

Moving me out of this. And then
I got laid off. So God was
like, thank you. I was waiting for
you to submit. So what I've been
speaking to you about, and it's not
that he wanted me to quit. He
didn't want me to quit. He wanted
me a prayer. Prayer of, you know,
to submit to his.

What made you ready? Because if you
didn't have that dialogue with the holy
spirit already, right. You get laid off
and you're in panic mode. What is
going on? What am I gonna do?
How am I gonna provide for my
family? And he's like, he was setting
you.

Up in advance, that conversation, kind of.

Like when he was asking you, you
know, how you're going to behave when
the guy comes back.

Because he told me the part was.

Going to, wasn't going to be, there's
no part. Before the guy told you
there's no part.

Absolutely. And it's like he's preparing me
to change my behavior for a moment.

Yeah.

Yeah. And so I think that's what,
a lot of times the Holy Spirit
is doing in us. He's preparing us
for the work that he has for
us to come. And then when that.
When that opportunity comes or that shift
comes or that change comes, we can
say, oh, the Holy Spirit has been
preparing me for this. So I'm glad
that I have gone through those questions

(33:34):
and having those conversations in prayer and
reading the word that guides me to
this moment, that when this moment comes,
it's not a shock or anything. Like,
it's like, okay, now I'm ready to
wait for what God has for me
next.

Yep. I love that the Bible says
that the Holy Spirit's gonna remind us.

Oh, yeah.

There's an emphasis there that you've got
to know something, because I can't be
reminded of something I know you don't
know.

Yeah. You should have been deep into
the words to begin with. Like, how
can he remind us of what Jesus
taught if we never read what Jesus
taught?

Exactly. 100%. And I think there's some
people that go into it. Kind of
like the kid that prays that God
would give them the answers to the
test that they didn't study.

Yeah. That's what we pray. Bring back
to my remembrance all the things that
I learned and that I saw. Not
that I learned, but I, like, looked
at with my eyes.

I love it. Yeah, but how. So
in your. In your life, how would
you say that the Holy Spirit is
guiding you, teaching you, reminding you how
is the holy spirit even doing that
work of sanctification in you?

Yeah, it's certainly through the word. And,
you know, I love reading the Bible.
I love the Bible as a story,
you know, more than it being used
as anything else. You know, scripture a
day keeps the devil away. Like, I
don't read the Bible like that. Or
I try not to read the Bible
like that. It's just my own preference.
But reading the word and going through

(34:58):
the stories of the Bible, the Holy
Spirit, I feel like, jumps at me.
Like he is just, like, giving me
revelation. I did my devotional on Paul
and the shipwreck, and I don't know,
man, I needed a devotional, and the
Holy Spirit came through. But reading that
story normally would have been like, okay,
yeah, so this crew, they were trying

(35:18):
to navigate weather, blah, blah, blah, and
it's like, no, the Holy Spirit just
started speaking to me. He was like,
you know, they were doing things in
their own power and their own strength
and what they knew to do. And
that got them this far to this
port. But when things got bad, Paul
had to rely on the voice of
the Lord. And it's like, I wouldn't
have got that revelation or that thought

(35:39):
on my own, just reading the word.
But that's when the Holy Spirit really
speaks to me, when I'm in his
word. Not that he doesn't speak to
me other times, because he certainly does.
But when I'm in his word, it
kind of sticks with me, because now,
the application of life, I could go
back to two things. I can go
back to the actual word of God,
and I can go back to the
Holy Spirit speaking to me while I'm

(36:00):
reading that word. And so it's like
a tag team double whammy that happens
to me when I am going through
my life and something comes up. And
I have two things to go on.
I have the words of Jesus Christ,
and I have the holy spirit reminding
me of what those words are. The
other way that the Holy Spirit speaks
to me, believe it or not, is

(36:20):
my wife. I could get home.

We always joke that our wives are
the voice of the Holy Spirit.

Man, my wife talks to God. Like,
I know that we're talking about, like,
do people talk to God? I just
feel like there's times in my life
where the Holy Spirit has spoken directly
to my wife and she has told
me exactly what the Holy Spirit is
saying. And I either didn't do what
she told me that the Holy Spirit
told us to do, or I did
do it. And I know that it

(36:46):
was God. Like, my wife has discernment
from the Holy Spirit like nobody else.
But when I talk to my wife
about a decision that we need to
make or something that's coming up, we
kind of have this look that we
have with each other. Like, the Holy
Spirit told you that, right? Yeah, the
Holy Spirit told me that, too. Okay,
then we, then that's the direction that

(37:07):
we're going in. It's like, that's immediate
confirmation. When you have someone in your
life that you could just look at
and be like, yeah, that was the
Holy Spirit. Like, who are we fooling?
Like, that's the confirmation that we have.
That the Holy Spirit is both telling
us the same thing independent of each
other, without prior conversation or knowledge. And
we come together and we say, okay,

(37:28):
then we know a decision that we
need to make. We see the crossroad,
we see the fork in the road,
but we both receive the same word
at the same time of the decision
that we need to make, and we
just give each other a look, and
my wife and I, we have that
look, and we have that knowledge from
the Holy Spirit, and we're in tune
with each other, and we're like, okay,
yeah, we know. The Holy Spirit speaking
to us.

Yeah. I love that. That moment with
my wife, especially when it's not even
pertaining to, like, an issue we're facing.
Like, it's literally like, I'll have a
random thought.

Uh huh.

That's a random thought. And. And I'm
just like, oh, that was. That was
out of nowhere. That was weird. And
then, like, later that day or the
next day, my wife comes to me.
She's like, man, I just had this
random thought, and it's identical, the exact
same thing. And it's like, there was
nothing that led us to that. You
know, it wasn't based on circumstances. It
wasn't an issue we're facing. We're both

(38:20):
trying to solve the problem, and it's
like, oh, we both came up with
the same solution. Great. No, no. This
is, like, totally out of left field.
Totally out of left field. But it's
identical. In that moment. It's like, okay,
I think that we should probably pay
attention to this. I think this might
be more than just a random thought.

Yeah. And sometimes, like, I have to
fight my logic because I'm trying to
analyze the options or, you know, the
next steps, and it's like my wife
would just come to me. It was
like, I think. I think God is
telling us that we need to do
this. And then I go back to
the drawing board, and I look at
my logic. I study my logic, and
it's like, oh, my logic did tell
me to do this, but me and

(38:56):
my own self thinking, like, yeah, it's
like, wait a minute. I could have
stopped here. And it's like that confirmation
that I needed from my wife that
it was like, you know, my wife
is not doing. She's not building a
blueprint of, you know, the options that
we have, like, I am, and she's
just like, no, the Holy Spirit said
that, you know, I think God is
telling us that.

We should do this, and this is
all of this. This is the beauty
of having two believers that are. That
are believers.

Right.

Having a married couple. But this is
actually. It's not even about a husband
and wife marriage relationship. It's about doing
life together.

Yeah.

And so when you are doing life
with other believers, this could be somebody
in your small group. This could be
a best friend, this could be anybody
that God is choosing to use. But
it happens in the context of life,
right? That you're doing life with this
person. That's why, like, if you're single
or you're married to somebody that isn't
a believer, you can still experience this
exact same thing as long as you're

(39:52):
plugged into a community of other believers
or. I can't tell you how many
times somebody has just showed up to
church and a greeter was like, I
feel like the Holy Spirit is telling
me something right now. And it's just
a beautiful moment. It's a beautiful thing.
We get to experience it at home,
right? But everybody can experience it.

It happens in our finance meeting sometimes
when me, you, and pastor acer sitting
around and we're like, I think we
know what God wants us to do.
And so it's just like, yeah, God
wants us to do this, so we're
just gonna do it, and then that's
it.

Yeah. Enough conversation, right? Yeah. And there's.
There's wisdom in a multitude of counselors.
And so back to that whole, how
do you know when it's the voice
of God or the Holy Spirit speaking
to you? Take it to other, other
believers, run it past.

Yeah, absolutely.

Do a holy spirit check. Like, all
right, carlton, I feel like, you know,
the Holy Spirit is telling me this.
What. What is. What is the spirit
saying to you right now? How do
you feel about that? And if it's
something where it's like, man, first time
I heard that, it was. That was
wild. That was crazy. No, I don't
think that's. That's God. Okay, thank you.

Right?

Like, or it may be, man, I
think that actually absolutely is. I've been
that voice for other people. They come
to my office and say, hey, I
really feel like the Holy Spirit's telling
me this. How do you feel? And
I've had times when they're like, hey,
I really feel like the Holy Spirit's
telling me this. How do you feel?
And I'm like, absolutely nothing. Holy Spirit
saying nothing about that to me. So

(41:15):
let's just look at it. And so
we'll use logic, we'll use reasoning, we'll
go to scripture, and at the end
of the day, it's like, hey, maybe
the Holy Spirit just letting you make
a choice. Yeah.

And you pray that the Holy Spirit
guards your steps, too, you know, because
we could be indifferent about if the
Holy Spirit is speaking to me in
a moment. But then in those times,
you pray and say, okay, God, you
know, I'm gonna need you to close
the doors that aren't for me and
open the doors that are for me.
And then as you navigate life and
walk through life, you are believing that

(41:45):
the Holy Spirit is going before for
you, creating the path that you should
go on. Because we could question ourselves
and our logic and our mind. Was
it bad pizza? Was it a late
night? Is the Holy Spirit really talking
to me? That kind of goes against
what I want to do in my
heart. And so there's a lot of
things that influence us in believing if
the Holy Spirit is speaking to us

(42:06):
or not. But what we can do
is pray that the Holy Spirit has
gone before us in our steps. And
as he's navigating or helping us navigate
our lives, we can say, okay, Holy
Spirit, I need to put guardrails up
around my life to make sure that
I'm going in the direction that you
want me to go in. I don't
know if you want me to get
this job or not, but I'm going
to go on the interview. And in

(42:26):
that interview, I need you to tell
me and make it plain for me
if this is for me or not
for me, you know, and sometimes we
need to step out and do some
things and allow the Holy Spirit to
navigate our lives. You know, it's really
nice for the Holy Spirit to tell
us exactly what to do all the
time. But a lot of times we
have to have faith that he is

(42:47):
guiding us as we move through our
life. And I think that we need
to pray for that, you know, before
we make steps and moves in our
lives.

Yeah, I think that's awesome. All right,
Carlton, here's a trick question for you.
You ready for this?

A trick question.

Trick question. Okay, so the holy spirit
gives gifts and produces fruit. If Carlton
McCarthy could only have one of the
two fruit. Good answer. Yeah. No, that
needs to be the answer for every
believer. And the reason why I wanted
to bring it up is that I
do see in some hyper charismatic circles

(43:23):
where it's this emphasis on the gifts
of the spirit.

So that wasn't a trick question.

It is a trick question because there's
a right and a wrong answer.

Okay.

Right. It's an opinion based question. But
you would have been fired if you
said no. Just mess with you. No,
but I just. I want everybody listening
to hear this. Right. It. There's. He
gives both. Right. He produces fruit and
he gives gifts. Yeah, scripture tells us
that. But if you're going to desire
something, desire the fruit.

Yeah.

Because you could have a gift. But
if you don't have the fruit.

To support it, absolutely. How many preachers
do we know have moral failures in
their life? Yeah, people could give be,
you know, someone could give you a
prophecy, a prophetic word, and you look
at their life and you're like, I
can't even receive that. I don't know
if I can receive that from you
because I see what you're doing with
your wife or with your children or

(44:15):
how you act at the job or
in the streets. And it's like, I
don't know if the Holy Spirit is
really speaking to you. And so, like,
having gifts, it's one thing it's great
to have for the work of God,
for the ministry of Jesus, but it's
like, how are people going to be
able to receive what the gifts that

(44:35):
the Holy Spirit has given you, if
you have, you know, if you have
character issues in your life, if they
can't see you and see kindness and
gentleness and love, like, see real love,
the love of Jesus Christ in your
life, it doesn't matter what, what gifts
you have. You know, sometimes people have

(44:56):
gifts and their lives are just a
wreck. I had a guy prophesied to
me about a house that I was
trying to buy. You know, this was
in 22,009. I believe I could be
getting this day wrong. 2006, 2009. This
guy was an alcoholic, certainly on drugs,

(45:17):
you name it. And in the convenience
store downtown, he prophesied over me that
I was gonna get a house. And
I'm like, well, I mean, how would
he know that I'm looking for a
house right now? And that this word
that he's given me is comforting to
me because the Holy Spirit has been
dealing with me about, you know, how
hard the process was to find a
house. Like, he knew exactly what to

(45:39):
say, but I could not help but
to examine him in that process. And
questioning, even though the confirmation was there,
I still question the word because of
who he was. And so it's like,
you know, the Holy Spirit can give
you gifts all day long, but if
you don't have the behavior and the
likeness of Christ, if you're not sanctified

(46:01):
in your life, it doesn't matter. People
will respond more to your behavior and
your character than they would your gifts.
It's the love of Christ that you
have in you that's going to bring
people to Jesus and not some major
prophetic word or any other gifts that
the Holy Spirit is giving you.

And how many ministers have been exposed
recently in the last 1020 years been
exposed that had giftings. Right. Whether they're
holy spirit gifts or good charisma or
whatever, but they had gifts, but it
undermined everything because their character didn't sustain
it. They didn't have the fruit of
the spirit. They didn't have self control
in some areas or, you know, you

(46:38):
meet somebody and they're, you know, they're
yelling and screaming. They're moving in the
gifts of spirit, but there's no goodness
or gentleness or kindness. And you're just
looking at it and it's, it's so
off putting. And I think that it
gives Christianity a black eye.

Yeah.

And so, yeah, I think, hey, it's,
it's good. The gifts, they're awesome. They're,
they're incredible. They, they leave you in
awe so often, but every single day,
my prayer is I need, I need
fruit. I need fruit to be developed.

How many atheists are atheists today because
of church hurt, something that happened in
church. A lot of the atheists used
to be believers or had experiences in
church, and that experience in church of
them being hurt by a pastor or
member of the church has led them

(47:26):
to say that God doesn't exist.

They can easily write off the supernatural
experiences to say, oh, well, it was
just mass hysteria or whatever. They faked
it or the healings and stuff and
all that. So easily faked all that.
It's, it's really, it's the lack of
fruit that caused them to stumble. So,
yeah, I think, yeah, the fruit of

(47:49):
the spirit for me is that's, that's
the emphasis. Like, look, I would love
to lay hands on somebody and see
him healed. I'd love to be able
to prophesy over somebody, love to have
all the gifts of the spirit in
operation.

Yeah.

You know, I'm so grateful that I
speak in tongues.

Absolutely.

But I would trade all of that
in for more fruit, right? In a
heartbeat.

Yeah. That's good. It's a good trick
question. I wonder how many people would
have said fruit.

Yeah. Hopefully all of our people would
say fruitfully. I think what I really
hope is that people that are saying,
well, I know fruit is the right
answer, but, man, I really want some
of them gifts. I hope that they'll,
they'll stop and just say, you know
what? Let me focus on the fruit.

Yeah. And we operate in the gifts
of the spirit here at CLC, but
we teach fruits in our daily life
because it's the fruit that makes our
church what it is. Pastor Harry talked
about when he first came here. He
received so many hugs and received so
much love from people. I remember my
first time being here at ClC. Pastor

(48:49):
Sam, who pastors at Anthem church right
now, he was just a member and
he was a volunteer on the dream
team. And he hopped over the info
desk and grabbed me and just loved
on me in a moment and invited
me to a small group. Group. And
it's like, that's the fruits of the
spirit that keeps someone connected to believers
into the church and their relationship with

(49:11):
God. And it's a beautiful thing that
we have here.

What of the nine fruit are you
needing more of right now?

Oh, man.

Which one is the holy spirit moment?
I'll answer, too.

I think a lot of time is,
and I mentioned this in the sermon,
that Paul put self control last for
a reason, because he needed that to.
And it's not like. Like I'm losing
control or I'm going nuts on people
all the time. But I think in
conversation, you need to have control over

(49:43):
your emotions or what you say to
people in certain times. And it's like,
okay, Carlton, you can't say everything that
comes to your mind all the time.
Like, you just can't do it. Sometimes
even you need to shut up.

Yeah.

And that's the self control that you
need. How about don't say anything at
all? Because a lot of times I
could be wrong and strong. I believe
my logic is right, and I could
be being combative with someone trying to
prove my point or prove my logic
and not recognizing that if I had
self control in this moment, I would
see that this person's hurting or this

(50:16):
person needs correction in a different way.
They need love. And the love that
I share with that person would allow
them to soften and allow the Holy
Spirit to correct them and not me,
in my own logic. And so a
lot of times, for me, it's like
self control and how I interact with
people. I love to debate. I love
to have combative conversations with people because,

(50:38):
you know, it helps us grow, it
helps us learn. Like, I think it's
healthy, but a lot of times it's
like, okay, the Holy Spirit is saying,
I need you to see something different
in the person that you're talking to
and have self control in a moment
over your emotions and your logic and
allow me to work in them while
you show them love.

Yeah. Because we very much can take
something healthy and make it unhealthy easily.

Yeah, all the time.

Yeah. So I should have gone first
because my answer was gonna be the
same thing, self control. And it's it's
not to say that I don't need
the other. Like, I want more of
all of the fruit of the spirit
in my life.

Right.

Right now, all the time. I think
there's some fruit of the spirit that
I demonstrate very well.

Yeah.

I still want more of it.

Right. Like, I need more gentleness.

Yeah.

Because sometimes I can be abrasive.

Yeah.

And it's like, if I'm gentle in
the moment, I can have better relationships
with people.

Yeah.

But, you know, that's. That's, like. Right.
Under self control.

Yeah. But for me, the. I think
in this season, my wife and I,
we've been talking about it a bunch.
I put on a lot of weight
this year. Just. Yeah.

Really? Maybe because I see you every
day.

As far as, you know, my clothing
tells me, okay, I've been putting on
weight, and it is a self control
thing. I think that we've been under
more stress this year, just more things
happening. We're navigating that fine, but it
comes to a meal time, and there's
no real self control there.

Absolutely. I have those moments that I'm
like, I don't know if I have
any control.

Yeah. I woke up this morning and
I was like, I need to go
work out. And I got the dogs
outside to the bathroom, came back inside,
went right back upstairs and climbed into
bed. I was like, man. And, like,
I didn't even realize until I was,
like, driving into work. I was like,
man, I really wasted that moment this
morning. Like, I was up at 630.

(52:28):
I could have. I could have gone
to the basement and gone in the
treadmill, grabbed the weights, could have done
something. And instead I put the dogs
outside and went back to bed.

You have stairs in your backyard. Like,
you have a lot of stairs. You
could have hit those stairs this morning.

Yeah, absolutely. There's a lot of things
I could have done. I didn't do
any of them. Bad self control.

Yeah.

So, yeah, that's the fruit that I
know the holy Spirit's kind of poking
at me like, hey, where's that one?

I know, man. The discipline to do
some of the things that the Holy
Spirit is, I feel like screaming at
me about.

Yeah.

It's like, you know, I don't have
control in that area. I'm just gonna
let my body do what it wants
to do.

Yep. And a lot of times it's
like, man, I'm so tired. Just cannot.
Like, this is the one thing that
I'm like. Brings me some joy. Let
me. Let me just eat these 82
chicken wings.

Yeah. There's some foods I had to
stop eating. I had to stop eating
tacos. I had to stop eating pizza.

Yeah. I couldn't stop eating tacos. I'm
not married to a mexican. My wife,
it's taco Tuesday on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,
Thursday, Friday.

My son discovered tacos. He eats it
like three times a week.

Discovered tacos.

Yes. And so we have this wonderful
mexican restaurant by our house, and I
go in there two to three times
a week and order tacos, and they
know exactly who I am and what
my order is. And I cringe at
the fact that I don't have self
control enough to order myself two tacos
because I will order myself ten tacos.

Yeah, right.

Or a pan, a tray.

Yep. So, yeah, I was skinny before
I got married to a Mexican, and
tacos, tacos ruined me. It's all her
fault.

I think we all were skinny before
we got married.

I think so. I don't know. We
didn't. We need David Beasley. He's the
only one that got married and got
skinny. How do you do? How do
you do the reverse?

His job is to stay fit, though.
I think so. Right. Tycea.

Isn't that part of our job too?
Shouldn't we be staying fit? I don't
know. David Beasley, help us out, brother.
All right. So there's a few questions
that actually Ty'esha looked up for us
of some things that people ask about
the Holy Spirit.

Oh, man, this could get scary.

And so let me look over at
our list. So we already kind of
talked about what does it mean to
walk in the spirit? But I guess
let's just attack that one just straight
on. What does it mean to actually
walk in the spirit?

You have to be keen on the
influence of the word of God that
you've been reading and the nudge of
the Holy Spirit speaking through your conscience
about the right things to do as
it relates to what you have already
learned and were taught by the word.

Yeah, yeah. I would throw in the
word pay attention. Yeah, I guess that's
not a word phrase. Pay attention. For
me, like, when I'm walking with the
spirit, it's because I'm paying attention to
what he's leading, what he's saying. I'm
thinking about him, I'm reflecting on him,
I'm inviting him into scenarios and situations.

(55:26):
We try and have this pray first
mentality here at the church, where it's
like, before we start a meeting, before
we go into anything, we're going to
pray first. That's an invitation for the
Holy Spirit. So it's coming when I'm
not doing that, when I'm just full
steam ahead, it's like, I got my
to do list, my tasks. I'm just
nailing things. I'm just knocking things out.
That's when I'm not walking with the
spirit. And that's the moments when I

(55:47):
think, I look back and go, oh,
man. I wonder if the Holy Spirit
was trying to get my attention in
that meeting, or was he trying to
get my attention when I was at
the store today, like, having that moment
where you just. You walk in, you
walk out, and it's like, okay, who
did you see in there? And it's
like I wasn't paying attention.

Right, right.

So I think walking with the spirit,
just paying attention, inviting him into scenarios
and situations.

And we know the things that we're
doing that are not of God.

Right.

But we're so used to doing it,
it becomes such a habit to us
that we've ignored God pulling us away
from those moments. And I think that
we need to reengage the Holy Spirit
and say, holy Spirit, is there any
parts of my life that I'm doing
out of habit that aren't of you?
And watch how the Holy Spirit speaks
to you. Yeah. When you pray that
prayer, things will start getting illuminated in

(56:31):
your life of the things you do
daily.

All right, you ready to mess with
some people tonight? When you're watching tv?
If you were to imagine the Holy
Spirit was sitting on the couch next
to you, what is his reaction to
what you're watching on tv?

Exactly like that.

That is a sobering thought. There have
been so many times when I'm just
engrossed in a show or something, and
then all of a sudden, this thought
hits me of, like, wonder how the
Holy Spirit feels about this.

Absolutely. It's like movies, tv shows.

Yep.

YouTube clips, shorts, TikTok, you name it.

Yeah, yeah. All right, good. Good answer.
What is the blasphemy of the Holy
Spirit?

Oh, man, I'm gonna let Pastor burn
answer that question.

Okay, so blasphemy of the Holy Spirit
is, according to Jesus, the only unforgivable
sin. There are a lot of disagreements
around this one. I do fall in
the camp that this is not a
sin that you can commit today. So.

Well, we have to define blasphemy.

Yeah. So blasphemy is speaking out against.
So, in the scenario. So if you
actually read that passage, and this is
why I have the. I lean towards
and I don't know that I'm fully
in that camp, but I lean towards
the people that say, it's actually not
even a sin that you could commit
in 2024, because what was happening is
the pharisees were looking at Jesus miracles,
what Jesus was doing, and saying that

(57:55):
he was doing it through Satan. Right.
They are attributing what he's doing to
satanic operation. That's blasphemy against the Holy
Spirit. And Jesus even attributes. He's like,
look, you can make false claims about
me, but not against the Holy Spirit.
That's the distinction that he's making. But
because it was a specific. So we

(58:16):
have a grammatical, historical interpretation of scripture,
where we look at the grammar, the
structure of the sentence, but we also
look at history around it. So he
makes that statement when they are looking
at him healing the sick and saying,
you know, you're healing the sick by
the power of the devil. Can we
do that today? No. Simply because Jesus

(58:37):
is not walking around doing miracles that
we're witnessing.

Right.

And then claiming that it's so was.

The sin against the work of Jesus
while he was on earth.

That would. That would be the interpretation
that I would lean towards ultimately. So
either it's a sin that you can't
commit, or it's a sin that 99.9%
of people won't be committing. And if
you're. If you're the kind of listener
right now and you're thinking, man, have
I committed that sin? Or if you're
worried that you've committed that sin, the

(59:09):
fact that you are worried about it
means you haven't.

Right.

Right. So. So, yeah. For me, blasphemy
of the Holy Spirit is. Is. It
is, according to scripture, the unforgivable sin.
The only unforgivable sin. So anybody that
says suicide is the unforgivable sin? No,
not according to scripture. According to scripture,
this is the only one. But in
the context of it being given, I
don't think it's a sin that we
can replicate today. And even if it

(59:33):
is, I don't think that it's a
sin that the vast majority of people
are going around doing.

Yeah. I always struggle with that because
I believe that the power of God
to redeem me from my sin is
greater than the sin itself.

Yeah.

And so I would struggle with, is
there any sin that's greater than God's
ability to pull me out of it.

Right.

And to.

Now you're putting blasphemy as more powerful
than God.

Yeah. Back to God. Yeah. Right. There's
no sin that's greater than what his.
What. What he's able to do in
me.

Pastor Brent McQuay (01:00:03):
Yeah.

Pastor Carlton McCarthy (01:00:03):
And so I've always struggled with that,
and I haven't done enough study to
come to a conclusion about, you know,
where I. I fall.

Yeah. And the interpretation of the understanding
of that passage is Jesus was making
a claim against the Pharisees. He was
basically saying, you're cut off. Right. Because
you. You know, I'm here as a
witness to you, and you're still rejecting
me.

Right.

I'm cutting off the Pharisees. And if
you actually keep reading the rest of
his interaction with them and what happens
next, he gives several analogies about them
being cut off. Right. And so I
think that that was very specific to
that moment. So the. The average Christian
today either can't do this thing or
isn't doing this thing. So I don't

(01:00:47):
think it's something that we have to
worry about.

Okay.

And there is some hyper crazy movements
where they're, you know, they attribute anything
to blasphemy against the Holy Spirit. Like,
if I've heard one preacher say, if
you come against me, you're blaspheming the
Holy Spirit. And I'm like, you ain't
Jesus. Like, calm down.

Right?

Settle down, buddy. And so, like, there's
a lot of just weird doctrine out
there around this, but for me, a
grammatical historical view of scripture, reading the
text in context, reading what happens before
it, what happens after it. It looks
like this is Jesus is making a
proclamation against the Pharisees because of their
behavior in that moment.

Right. That's good. Yeah, I like that.

Cool. All right, what other questions we
got? I think we answered all these.
How does the Holy Spirit teach and
remind us of Jesus teachings? We talked
about that. You got to have.

You got to have foreknowledge of Jesus
teaching.

Emphasize the word remind.

Yes.

So if I'm going to be reminded,
I need to know it. And so
I guess at that point, I have
to read it at least once. At
least once to be reminded. And so
if the Holy Spirit is going to
remind us of Jesus teachings, we should
probably be reading Jesus teachings. So if
you have gospels, do it.

Listen to the Holy Spirit speak to
you as you read, because it may
not be remembering a verse, it may
be remembering the application of the verse
and the next thing that you do
in your life. And so that's reminding
me of what Jesus had taught.

And I've had moments in my life
where I felt like the Holy Spirit
was reminding me of a passage, but
he wasn't just giving me the passage.
It was. It was like I had
like a. Like a vague remembrance of
something, and it forced me to actually
pick up my Bible, right. And go
and read it, right. And every time
it's in that moment where it's like,

(01:02:38):
oh, man, there's something rich here. There's
something beautiful here. There's something I need
here. But I actually had to pull
out my Bible. It wasn't just like
the Holy Spirit was quoting scripture to
me. And, you know, maybe that's because
I don't have enough scripture memorized, and
I need to be working on that
more, but it was definitely. There's been
multiple times when I felt like the
Holy Spirit was reminding me of a

(01:02:58):
passage, and I had to pull out
my Bible.

I can't remember scripture, but, yeah, I
know full stories. You know, I can't
quote you, you know, a verse.

I started with that, too. I used
to have a lot of scripture memorized,
and it just. I keep losing them.
I don't know. Played football. I got
hit in the head too many times.
I don't remember a lot of things.
And so, yeah, I do struggle with
that. But, yeah, when the Holy Spirit
is like, hey, you know, what did
Jesus say to the Pharisees in this
moment? Like, oh, what did he say?

Yeah, pull that up.

Look, let me see what he said.
So that helps. Yeah, for sure. All
right. How does the Holy Spirit transform
our character and behavior? We kind of
talked about that.

Yeah, we did.

Developing the fruit of the spirit in
your life. I think he transforms first
by correcting. So that transformation doesn't just
magically happen, but transformation happens when the
Holy Spirit points out something that I'm
doing wrong or something that I'm not
doing the best at. Where the Holy

(01:04:03):
Spirit is like, hey, this is an
issue. Like, hey, the way you just
talked to your kids, that's not okay.

And, you know, it's the holy spirit
because you feel like, I shouldn't be
doing this. Like that.

Yeah. So many times. I know.

In the morning, it's like, yeah, it's.

Like, that's not how I should have
handled that conversation or even something that.

You were doing as a habit. And
now you've come to salvation. The Holy
Spirit's in you.

Yeah.

It's like, all of a sudden, this
doesn't feel good. I don't have a
taste for this anymore. You know, this.
The craving for this thing feels different.
Like, there's still temptation there because of
sin, but it's like, yeah, something's in
me is telling me that that's not
the way that I should be operating
or moving in my life. And that's
the voice of the Holy Spirit.

Like on Sunday, you, you read the
passage about, you know, all the people
that are not gonna inherit the kingdom.

Yeah, right.

So you read that passage and the
Holy Spirit is like, yes. You know,
there's, there's like eight things here. Number
four.

Yes. And that's why I wanted everyone
to read it with me, because it's
like there's a feeling or emotion that
you get when you read past the
thing that may have been habitual in
your life, and it's like, ah, dissension,
envy, jealousy.

Yeah.

It's like, yeah, I know, at work.

Yeah, here's the funny thing. I have
no idea what number four is on
that list. Yeah, but somebody's gonna look
it up now, and they're gonna go
to number four, and the Holy Spirit's
gonna be like, he was talking to
you right now. Cuz number four is
your issue. I'm totally gonna pull up
that, that passage in a moment and
see what number four is.

And just like Paul ends the attributes
with self control, he ends the list
of, you know, sinful desires with drunkenness
and wild parties. It's like you want
to mess up everybody's life. Like, anybody
who was even thinking of, like, I'm
gonna have a great weekend, you know,
I'm gonna let myself go and, and
just, you know, drink and hang out

(01:05:54):
and, you know, do the things that,
you know, I can't do in the
daylight. Yeah, it's like, no, Paul ends
it with your weekend.

That one doesn't even hit me at
all. I haven't had drunkenness and wild
parties since I was like, 19 years
old, so. Yeah, but there's a lot
of things on that list.

Well, a lot of people work in
nine to five jobs who are overstressed
and they want to release, and they're
like, I'm getting high this weekend, or
I'm gonna have me a stiff drink,
a number of stiff drinks, you know,
to try to disengage from the stresses
of life and of work. And it's
like, yeah, Paul, put that at the
end for some of those people.

Yeah, okay, all right, I see, I
see you. Yeah, I think, I think
we covered all of them. Look at
us. Do we, aren't we good?

This is gonna be the shortest podcast
we've ever had.

Now, we've already been over an hour.
All right, last, last question. This is
a little bit of story time, but
I'm just. I'm just curious. Carlton McCarthy,
what was your first encounter with the
Holy Spirit?

Like, oh, wow.

First one.

First encounter with the Holy Spirit?

I don't.

Man.

All right. If you can't remember the
first. What was.

I remember I was going to shoot
pool, my cousin.

Okay?

And we were driving to the pool
hall, and we were talking about God,
and I didn't have my prayer language
yet. And he was like, you know,
we both grew up in the church
all our lives, and I was, like,
maybe 17 years old. And he was
like, you can get it now. And

(01:07:41):
my cousin Glenn, he's a pastor now
in South Holland. And we're driving to
a pool hall, and we park in
front of the pool hall, and he's
like, let's just pray for you to
speak in tongues right now. And I'm
like, but we're going out.

Like, going to a pool hall.

And he's like, you know, he really
taught me in that moment, like, the
Holy Spirit can operate anywhere. Like, you
submit yourself to the Holy Spirit, you
know, he. He'll move on your behalf,
you know. And so we prayed, and
I received the evidence of the Holy
Spirit. I received my prayer language in
his car in front of a pool

(01:08:20):
hall on a Friday night. And it
was amazing. And then as we were
going out, he was in the underground
rap movement, gospel rap. And so we
would pick up guys on our way
to doing shows and different things like
that. And we picked up a famous

(01:08:40):
producer who produces. Now, I'm not gonna
say his name, but he was a
part of our group, too. And we
would be in the car and we
would listen to music, but we would
rap, christian rap, and we would be
speaking in tongues. And it was like,
this is a holy spirit experience that
I hadn't thought existed, because I grew
up in Kojic and very religious type

(01:09:03):
of environment where, you know, the Holy
Spirit was speaking in tongues was kind
of, like, put in this particular spiritual
box. And it's like, no, the Holy
Spirit is with me everywhere that I
go. And I can have the evidence
of the Holy Spirit moving in my
life anywhere and everywhere. And even in
the things that a lot of traditional

(01:09:23):
people in the church that I came
from would say is not of God.
And it's like, no, but the Holy
Spirit is moving in these spaces and
these young people. And he was moving
in my life. And it was totally
amazing for me to be a teenager,
hanging out with these guys, enjoying the
work of God, and having the evidence
of speaking in tongues. It was totally
amazing for me. And so, like, that

(01:09:45):
was a great experience for me to
understand that the Holy Spirit can move
in me, outside of the church walls,
in my daily life, doing the things
that I like to do. So that
was pretty cool.

That is awesome. That's like Robert Morris's
story of he got filled with the
Holy Spirit spoke in tongues in his
sleep.

Oh, wow. Really?

Yeah. His wife, like, woke him up,
was like, you have no idea what
you're doing while you're sleeping. You were
speaking in tongues, and he's like, no
way. That can't happen. So he went
to his, like, spiritual mentor at the
time, was like, hey, my wife says
that I was speaking in tongues in
my sleep. Is that even a thing
that could happen? His pastor, I don't
know if his pastor was just trying
to mess with him or be sarcastic
about it. He's like, oh, absolutely. You
know, sometimes, you know, with really hard

(01:10:25):
headed people, the only way the Holy
Spirit can go through their home is
when they're unconscious. That's really funny, but
it's kind of an awesome moment. Yeah.
So I'll tell my story, and then
I want to come back to something
new. But my first experience, it's hard
to even talk about because I was
five, six years old, and it was,

(01:10:45):
it was a prayer gathering. I think
it was like a Sunday night service
or something, and I wanted to receive
the Holy Spirit. And so, like, they
were praying, and this is, this is
back in the tarrying days and. Yeah,
and all that. And so, like, they
just prayed with me and prayed with
me and prayed with me. And, like,
five, six years old, I filled the
holy spirit evidences, speaking in tongues, got
water baptized right after that, and the

(01:11:06):
whole shebang, like, all of it. And
it's funny because I'm like, part of
me is like, man, at six, did
I even have a clue what was
happening or what was going on? Like,
I look six year olds now, and
I'm like, no. But part of me
is also super grateful because I am
very skeptical. Skeptical by nature. Like, I

(01:11:27):
look at everything through that, like, filter
of nah, bro.

Yeah.

And so I think that if 39
year old Brent was looking at speaking
in tongues and all that today, I
would have a really hard time with
it if it wasn't for the fact
that I had an experience that started
as a six year old but continued
all throughout my life. It wasn't like
I just had that moment and then
nothing. But. So since you brought in

(01:11:54):
speaking in tongues and now we're talking
about it. Can you be born again
Holy Spirit led believer without speaking in
tongues? Yes, absolutely. 100.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. I mean, yeah, speaking
of tongues is evidence. It's not the.
The tongues itself is not the Holy
Spirit. So you can have the Holy
Spirit without the evidence of speaking in
songs.

Yeah, yeah. And we call it evidence
because that's. What is it? Is it
Peter or is it Paul? Now I'm
blanking on the passage. I think it's
Peter that he's talking to a group,
and he says, you know, were you
filled with the Holy Spirit? And they
say, no, we don't even know. The
spirit prays for them. They're filled, and
they start speaking in tongues. It's the

(01:12:39):
tongues that. And there's a couple other
passages where the believers knew or recognized
that they were saved because they spoke
in tongues. And so, yeah, we use
it as it is an evidence, but
it's also not the. The only evidence.
I think the fruit of the spirit
in your life is just as totally
more prominent or even more so absolute

(01:12:59):
than the speaking in tongues. I think
we could probably have all kinds of
theological debates with. With people about speaking
in tongues. And is it a gift
for today, and what is it as
a gift? And, sure, there's so many
different passages about it being, you know,
an actual language, a heavenly language, a
prayer language, all this stuff. At the
end of the day, I think it's
an experience that. That God wants people

(01:13:19):
to have. I don't think that everybody
receives it, and I'm grateful that I
have, but I also know that other
people have received gifts that I don't
get. I'm a little bit jealous of
their gifts. So we have to allow
the Holy Spirit to remove that jealousy
from us.

I know I'd be like, talking to
my wife like, babe, God told you
that. How come he doesn't tell me
that?

Right? Like, the gift of faith that
some people have, because I'm that pessimistic,
you know, skeptical person. Like, sometimes faith,
for me is a struggle. Like, and
then somebody just walks in. They're just.
They have all the confidence in the
world. God said this. God's gonna do
it. I'm like, but did he really
say that?

Or was the amount of joy that
they have that they know that God
has led them in this area and
they have faith in. And. And it's
like, yeah, where'd you get that from?

Right? Somebody laying out hands on cancer
patients, and they're getting healed. I'm like,
man, I want my kid's sick. I
want to pray for my kid.

Yeah.

Just see them healed like that. So,
like, yeah, I get. I get desiring
other gifts, and I think even Paul
tells us to desire the gifts. Right.
So it's a healthy thing. It's a
good thing, but we got.

To lean on God's grace, man.

Yeah.

Some things I want to be healed
of, and it's like, God's like, you
don't have to lean on me.

Yeah. And so if somebody is out
there doesn't have that gift but wants
it, what do you tell them to
do?

Oh, well, I guess to not be
jealous of anyone else that has a
gift, but look at what God has
given you, because I don't want to
use this word, but I do want
to use it. Like, that's the superpower
that he's given you, and the superpower
that he's giving you is for the
work of God that he has for
you in your life. And so however
the Holy Spirit operates in your life

(01:15:01):
is on purpose. It's what he's meant
to give you and not anything else
because he has a particular task for
you. That's for you. I mean, he
knew us before we were in our
mother's womb. So he's orchestrated this path
and this road for us in order
to spread the gospel of Jesus Christ
in a particular way. And so he's

(01:15:22):
given us our gifts. And so the
gift that I have, or even the
experiences of the fruits of the spirit
that I have onto other people is
what the Holy Spirit wants me to
utilize in order to do the work
of God. And so I have to
be take joy in that and thank
God for that, that he chose these

(01:15:43):
things for me and the other things
that are not for me. He chose
other people. We're the body of Christ.
We have different roles and did.

If everybody's an eye, you know, how
are we eating, right? If everybody's a
hand, how are we getting anywhere?

So we got to thank God that
we can come together and be a
whole body that we're utilized for the
kingdom.

Yeah, I think that's good. Yeah. I
would just add for. For anybody that
just really desires it, still ask for
it.

Yeah.

If it's a gift and then we
ask to receive.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I would probably never tell
somebody to stop asking for any of
the gifts. Yeah. And so if speaking
in tongues is something that you're like,
man, I just. I really. I want
a prayer language. I want to be
able to communicate with God in that
way. I want that to affect my
prayer, prayer life in that way. I
think that's a great desire to.

Have, and the Holy Spirit can still
operate those gifts in us from time
to time. There's times that I've prophesied
over somebody praying over them, and it's
like, well, I'm not on the prophetic
team. I didn't go through any kind
of prophecy training or anything like that.
I don't feel like that. That's a
gift that I have. But in the
moment, I felt that the Holy Spirit
was telling me to say this to

(01:16:54):
someone.

Yeah.

And it's like, so I operated in
that gift in the moment, or I
could pray over somebody for healing in
their body, and it's like, okay, well,
the Holy Spirit is utilizing me for
this particular moment through a gift. And
it's not that I have that gift
on me that I can operate in.
Like Dennis Kramer, every day prophet being

(01:17:15):
able to prophesy over people using that
gift strongly in their life. But the
holy spirit does still use gifts and
us day to day, so.

Yeah, I agree. I think so, too.
Yep, it's good stuff.

Cool.

All right. That was our conversation about
the Holy Spirit.

Very nice.

Yeah, good stuff.

We got to go back to Trinity,
talk in the future.

Yeah. At some point, there's so much
more we could say. I know, man,
so many. Sometimes we should just pull
out our bibles on the show and
just go through every passage that talks
about this. That'd be like a ten
hour.

That's one thing I miss. Pastor Jerry's
Bible study, man. When I first started
coming to CLC, he would have Bible
study on Wednesday night, and he would
go through acts. Or at the time,
he was going through acts and he
was going through verse by verse.

He's doing that right now in life
university.

Yeah.

So tomorrow night, Tuesday night, we're recording
this on Monday. So Tuesday night it's
lesson number five. And so by the
time you hear this on Wednesday or
Thursday this week, it'll be too late.
But lesson lesson six, I hate to
say it, I'm teaching, so. But you
can come out and listen to lessons.

It used to be great because we
could be on a scripture for the
entire time, and it's like. Because it's
so much. Yeah, yeah.

I'm not gonna be able to do
that. Lesson six, he basically gave me,
like, acts 20 to acts 28. So
I've.

What?

I have nine chapters to get through
in a. In a 30 to 45
minutes class. So we're just gonna hit
the highlights possible. We're just gonna hit
the highlights. But he realized after he
put it all together, he's like, yeah,
I don't think you can get through
all this.

Paul gets arrested.

Yeah. It's basically his trials.

Yeah.

Yeah. So that's.

That's a good story, man.

It is good. I walked through acts
three and four for the last lesson
that I did, and it's one continuous
story of. So it's post Pentecost. It's
now the cripple being healed for the
first time. Right. The whole silver and
gold. Have I none? But what I
do have. Jesus Christ, standard walk. It's
that story. So it's his healing, then
their arrest and then their trial, and

(01:19:15):
then their release is acts three and
four. It's that one story. That was
a lot of fun.

Yeah.

So life university, it's. It's recorded. Those
lessons will be up, uh, at some
point.

Man, x is great if you guys
haven't read x. Yeah, man, read it.

You're. So the best way to read
acts is to read Luke first.

Yes.

Go. Go. Luke into acts.

And so now I'm like, I just
read the last two chapters of Luke,
but, yes, there's one continuous story. And
I think it's important for you to
read Luke first, too, because of the
parallel that Luke makes with Jesus and
Paul.

Yep.

When they go through their trials and.
And. And how the gospel is spread
through their trials, and I think it's
really good.

So. Yeah, think of it as part
one, part two.

Yeah. But I totally cheat. I just
read the last two chapters, and then.

Good times, right. All right, everybody, thanks
for hanging out. We will be back
next week. We're gonna be talking about
vision for the church, but also vision
for your life, what God wants to
see in you. It's gonna be a
good conversation. Hope to see you there.
God bless.

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