Gadgets, Golf, and Growth: The Tech Ninja Tell-All [Kevin Nether]

Kevin Nether ( @Techninjaspeaks ) is one of YouTube’s best voices for product reviews. His videos range from the typical fare you’d expect, like TVs and Gaming Devices, to the less obvious but still important, like refrigerators and vacuum cleaners. His grounded, straightforward approach to talking about tech has earned him hundreds of thousands of followers, and his ten plus years in the review space has earned him the respect and collaboration of brands like Samsung, Sony, TLC, Google, and more.

We discussed how his work has shifted in the last year, such as leaving his 9 to 5 and committing to YouTube as his primary income. We looked at how he edits his work these days, leaving behind the fad of retention editing and focusing on simple, effective storytelling. And we compared notes on what it’s like to work from home with a kid running around trying to get your attention.

The Podcast Playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLeUjBzgS9MfQ4arXwyeKwo2ehifKp-8Hi

Episode Transcript

(00:01):
- When we last chatted withtoday's guest from 2023,
he told me that I quote, had some
of the best intros onthe internet end quote.
Well, here's hoping hestill feels that way.
Kevin Nether is one
of the best voices onYouTube for product reviews.
His videos range from thetypical fair you'd expect,
like TVs and gaming devicesto the less obvious,

(00:23):
but still important likerefrigerators and vacuum cleaners.
His grounded, straightforward approach
to talking about tech hasearned him hundreds of thousands
of followers, and his 10 plusyears in the review space have
earned him the respect
and collaboration of brandslike Sony, TLC, Samsung,
Google, and more.
We discussed how his work hasshifted in the last year, such

(00:46):
as leaving his nine to five
and committing to YouTubeas his primary income.
We looked at how he editshis work these days, leaving
behind the fad of retention, editing,
and focusing on simple,effective storytelling.
And we compared notes on whatit's like to work from home
with a kid running aroundtrying to get your attention.
Spoiler Nether of us had avery good idea of how to solve

(01:06):
for that particular issue.
This is Kevin Nether, the tech ninja.
Welcome to Building Value.
I'm Jason Nellis and I amobsessed with the creator economy.
I've spent my career at theintersection of creativity
and technology buildingproducts at companies like Hulu
and Facebook, all trying to make it easier
and more valuable forartists to do what they love,

(01:26):
whether they're contentcreators themselves
or the people buildingproducts that creators use.
Every one of the folks I interviewoffer compelling ideas on
how to create something of lasting value.
If you like what you hearand you want to get more,
please subscribe on YouTube
or wherever you consumefine podcast products.
And if you really love whatyou hear, leave a review.
That always helps. Andwith that on with the show.

(01:49):
And here we are again withfriend of the show, Kevin Nether.
You may know him as Kevin, the tech ninja.
Kevin man, good to see you.Thanks for coming back.
- Hey, always good to seeyou, man. How you doing?
- You know, I'm good. I'm good.
A little, uh, a little tired.
You know, you and I both have kids.
You know what that's like. It's, uh, sure.
It's exhausting being a parent. Oh, yeah,
- Yeah, for sure.
I, I, I agree on that one. . Yeah.

(02:10):
- Um, but let's dive in.
You know, you joinedthe podcast last year.
We talked a little bit about your process.
We talked a little bit about sort of
how you conceptualize your videos, uh,
and these days, uh, as I wasnot allowed to reveal during
that time, uh, you wereactually making the transition
to leaving your day job andbecoming a full-time creator.
Um, talk me through whatthat experience was like

(02:30):
and what it's been like nowthat you've been on your own
and solo for about a year.
- Yeah, so I mean that,you know, as, as we sort
of talked about a littlebit offline, um, you know,
that experience for mewas, was very scary.
Just because, you know,
I've been working full timesince I was 20 years old, right?
So that, that's, thatwas 15 years at the time
of working full-time, havinga career, building a career,

(02:51):
like working up the, thecorporate ladder, if you will,
and then to a certain pointjust to walk away from it.
And that is, uh, that isdefinitely a scary proposition
for me because you think about like
the golden handcuffs, right?
You got the 401k comingin, they're matching.
And, you know, I, I workeda really good job too.
Like, I worked a job thatI could've worked the rest
of my life and worked my way up,

(03:12):
and I would've been some director
of marketing or, or something like that.
And I would've lived apretty, pretty good life.
But, you know, it was alwaysjust this looming thing over my
head that I'm building thisbrand for myself that, you know,
to, to be honest, I was making more money
on my personal brand than,than a corporate brand.
And it was getting to thepoint where I was sitting in
meetings at work, discussingthings that were very trivial

(03:34):
to me because my mindwas on bigger projects
and bigger ideas that I had,that I really couldn't work on,
sadly, because I wasworking for someone else.
So it was one of thosesituations where I, I needed
to make the move, but as yousaid, having a family ha,
having, you know, ha havingthose things, I needed
to make sure those thingswere in place first
before I was able to make that move.
So, um, once I did, it wasstill difficult for me, but

(03:56):
after a couple months, Igot in the swing of things.
I was like, wow, what,what took me so long?
- Love that. Uh, what's it been like?
You know, I know thatyou've been a solo creator
for a long time, but, you know,I think one of my fears is
that idea that I'm nowresponsible for, you know, uh,
my family's income andit's really on me, right?

(04:16):
There's no larger structure around me.
It's really sort of me.
I know that that's a lotof folks', uh, nightmare.
Um, you seem to havestepped up to the challenge
and really grown since,uh, uh, we spoke last year.
Do you really feel like theopportunities are still coming
and this is, uh, this is thenot only the right choice
for you, uh, in the short term,
but that this continues to bethe direction you want to go?
- Yeah, so, I mean, I wasdefinitely in a unique situation

(04:38):
because, um, you know, Iwas saving money like crazy.
So I even told myself,worst case scenario,
I don't make another dollar on YouTube.
I am okay for X amount of months.
So I kind of gave myself that wiggle room.
That leeway had a nice nestegg that I had for myself that
what kind of puts the, you know,
context takes the pressure away from me.

(04:58):
It's just like, let mecontinue to do what I do now.
I just have more time to do it.
And that, that's kinda themindset I had going forward.
Um, so yeah, there'sdefinitely some slower months,
definitely some good months,and it's kind of this for,
especially in the tech game, very ebbs
and flow around releasestates of products.
So I know as long as products continue
to come out, I'll be okay.

(05:18):
Um, you know, there's definitelyother opportunities for,
for additional revenuesources and revenue growth,
but my main thing is to like,
and I'm still working onthat, establishing systems
around me to make this easier for me
and to be more profitable
and, you know, have a normal schedule
because I'm still kindof working that chaotic,
that chaotic lifeschedule where it's like,

(05:40):
I don't have office hours per se,
and I'm still working weekends,
so I need to figure that whole thing out.
But that, that, thatdefinitely comes with time.
- I don't think I know asingle entrepreneur who, uh,
understands work-life balance.
So I, I think you're, you'reprobably in good company there.
I, I for sure have no conceptof, of, uh, how to put a,
a hard line between those things.
Um, and I know with, uh, youhave a little one at home, same

(06:01):
as me, uh, roughly I think your,
your son is a few years older,
but even still that senseof like, if I don't, I have
to at the very least, clampdown on some time for kid play.
Yeah. But everything else gets bled into,
let's do a little bit of a breakdown on
how the business sideof things works for you.
So, as I understand it,when, uh, an influencer gets
to the level that you're at,most of the opportunities tend

(06:25):
to come in the form of sponsorships
or brand relation opportunities.
Um, you know, you sort oftend to think of your ad sense
as being performance, uh, youknow, performance pay, right?
If I do well, and this videodoes well, I get a little bit
of extra, and that affiliate revenue kind
of just sits in the middle of that.
Is that still the case?Are there other sort
of opportunities you're looking at
for monetization or growth?

(06:46):
I know a lot of folks areleaning on Patreon right now,
or looking at merch.
Are those opportunitiescoming across your plate?
- Yeah, I mean, youdefinitely hit the, uh,
hit the nail on the headthere as far as, uh, like the,
the structure of kind of how it works.
And, you know, for me,I'm a type of person
that if I can't fully put everything into
it, I, I'm not doing it.
So, years ago, a long timeago, I did a Patreon thing.

(07:08):
I just, I wasn't providing enough value,
and I'm being very transparent with that.
And even now, I know I cannotprovide additional value
because I already, I alreadyfeel like I'm maxed out already
as far as the valueI'm able to provide to,
to my audience at this moment.
So for me, it's definitelyworking with brands, working
with sponsors, and yeah,uh, working through AdSense
and then, uh, affiliate sales,which, you know, goes up

(07:28):
and downs based off products,and there's other avenues,
but those are things that Ihaven't really fully looked at
because I can't put in that full effort.
Like, of course there's gonna be merch,
but I don't wanna just like have my face
or logo on a T-shirt andtry to sell it for 30 bucks.
You know what I mean? That's the, that's,
that's not the way I want to handle that.
So for me, just focusing on, on, on,

(07:49):
on those revenue streams,
and typically those aregood enough for me to,
to be very comfortable in life.
Um, but I'm always lookingat other opportunities as far
as time allows.
- One thing I'd love toask you about is, you know,
how do you think about innovation
versus sticking to what works?
Because I know a lot of content creators,
growth has flattened a little bit.
Um, you know, thinking about sort of how

(08:09):
to innovate on format is top of mind.
You know, when you thinkabout the, the tried
and true methods ofmonetization, does the same
foundation hold for videoformat and review format?
- Yeah, that's, that'ssomething I'm actually dealing
with right now, because the,when I started the barrier
of entry to make YouTubevideos was very, very high.
So you're able to just makea video, and it does well.

(08:31):
Now, there's so much competition, which
I definitely do welcome,
but at the same time makesit a little bit tough
for someone like me, uh, making content
because I've been around for so long
and people have heard my voicefor so long, which can help,
but also can't hurt
because if someone'slooking for a fresh take
or fresh perspective, maybethey'll look at someone else,
or people are coming into YouTubewith full production teams

(08:53):
and, and things like that thatcan make, make them faster,
more lighter, and canmake things even better.
So it does get a little bit difficult.
And that's something I struggle with now.
Like, how do I make mycontent remain valuable,
and how do I stand out fromthe crowd of many, many people?
And I think there's a big shift right
now that you're hearing about it.
Right now. There's a big shiftright now in YouTube about,

(09:15):
um, kind of get away fromthe Mr Beatification of like,
retention, editing, andeverything has to be so fast paced
and regain the attentionevery two seconds.
I mean, there's so manyplatforms already doing that,
that people may want a morecasual experience on YouTube
and something that's not.
So that, so I've been, I'vehistorically practiced that type
of editing, but now I'm tryingto scale that back to kind

(09:37):
of go back to more personalitybased and opinion based
and kind of the, the basis of
what my channel was from the get go.
But, uh, e every day it's definitely
a struggle to kind of learn that.
Um, there's definitely checks
and balances when I'm editing now.
'cause now I have tolike say, you know what?
That's a lot that that's,that's too many cuts.
Let me scale that back. Letme pull it back a little bit.
Let the personalityshine through a bit more.

(09:59):
And it's a definitely a balance
and, and definitely a struggle.
- I'm not sure everybody knows
what retention editing meansif they're not specifically in,
in the YouTube averse.
Um, can you talk a little bit about that
and why that became really popular
and now why we're moving away from it?
- Yeah. So retention editingis basically editing to regain
that attention of the audience.
You know, it says likeevery, you know, depending on

(10:21):
who says it, but, butevery five to 10 seconds,
the audience can lose attention.
So you always do somethingthat gains their attention
or give them something toalways look forward to.
So for example, let's giveMr. Beast as an example.
He'll do something and,you know, whatever, he'll
take this $200 plant, buthe has a $5,000 plant.
He's like, wow, thisplant is great for $200,
but pretty soon we're gonna talk about the

(10:43):
$500 plant over here.
And they'll show that plant
for a second and then bring you back.
They always want you to continue
to look forward to the next thing.
And it's always about what's next,
not what's currently happening.
And it, it really createsvideos that are fast paced,
a lot of camera movements.
A lot of this is happeningthat is happening,
and what's happening, how it's happening.
Everything is so overthe top and sensational.

(11:04):
It's just, it, it becomes a lot.
And that does a great job atkeeping people's attention.
But at the same time, I thinkpeople are getting exhausted
too, since every platform is doing
that short form is doing that.
And, and now people arecoming back to YouTube
for a longer experience,
a more slowed down thing whenthey have more time to watch.
Because what we're also seeing is

(11:24):
that TV watch time hasgone up significantly.
So people who are, people arewatching these YouTube videos
on their TV now, and youcan't scroll away on a tv, um,
as far as far as I know.
So people wanna sit down
for a longer experiencewhen they're watching on tv.
- That's really interesting.It reminds me of, uh,
how we used to think about, uh,
TV viewing back at Hulu in theearly days where it was sort

(11:46):
of lean in versus lean back.
And on a TV you're very leaned back.
You want it to be a more open, social,
relaxing experience versuswhen you're on a device,
it's very lean in and almost interactive.
Uh, and I, I get that thatmakes a lot of sense in terms of
that editing shift and, and why Mr.
Beast was so successful when he
sort of developed that style.
But what I'm hearing you sayis that's no longer the name

(12:07):
of the game, that because ofthis shift to tv, we're now,
uh, somewhat more, I, Idon't wanna say relaxed,
but perhaps less, uh, in needof that constant prodding
of stay here, stay here, stay here.
The way that, that his editing style tends
to reinforce in your reviews,does that then get reflected
as thinking a little bit less about, say,

(12:28):
the specs on a device andmore about its usability,
or more about how, uh, membersof your family might use it.
Where does that translate in your content?
- Yeah, you, you, youdefinitely said the right thing.
It's a more, it's less specs
and more, uh, more usability,more conversational,
more my experience.
You know, instead of saying,
this phone has a fourteen,fourteen forty P display,

(12:50):
which is great in low light,I could say something like
this high res display whenyou're watching video,
or I take a picture and I,
and I wanna show somethingwith, with a high resolution,
like it looks a lot bettercompared to this phone,
which has a low resolution display.
You know, just, just something very casual
that everyone can understand, um, that
that's not just like readingoff the back of the box, right?

(13:11):
It's more, um, what, what are those,
what are those specs actually,
what can those specs do for you?
Instead of what, what arethe specs actually, whatever
that device actually has.
- That's so interesting. I, I feel like
that gets reflected in somany different industries,
but PC gaming is theone, especially where I,
I think we're hearing more about usability
and less about specs beingsort of the ultimate driver.

(13:32):
Um, in particular, being morecost conscious means you can't
necessarily get the top of the line stuff.
Um, and it sounds like that that's sort
of trickling down intodevices broadly, right?
The stuff that you're reviewing,which tends to be, uh,
phones and tablets and, uh,TVs and soundbars, et cetera.
Um, all of that, of course,that whole ecosystem is run

(13:53):
by lots of very professionalPR and communications folks.
And I know that when you gotinto the business early on,
there was a very differentvibe in that ecosystem in terms
of how they treated independentreviewers versus now.
Can you talk a littlebit about what it's like,
what it was like when youstarted, uh, in the industry
and working with PR
and comms folks for big brandsversus what it's like today

(14:15):
and where the pluses andminuses may come in? Yeah.
- Things definitely noware more so very business
and very metric oriented, whereinstead of them wanting you
to tell a story, they justwant you to tell their story.
A lot of the times. Um, nowyou do get the outlier brands
that really, really enjoyyou as a, as a creator.

(14:36):
And, and they, they, they thought you out
and they said, we love what you do,
let's work together, type of thing.
Like, you know, your audience best,
but you definitely run intothose brands that would say,
this is exactly what we want.
We want you to do it thisway. Here's an example.
Do it this way. So there's,there's a lot of that just
because there's so many creatorsthat they can work with now
that it's sort of like,this is what we want.

(14:57):
If you can't do it, we'llgo to somebody else.
Um, but as far as working with brands,
I still have great experiencesworking with those brands.
Um, 'cause a lot of times, you know,
you can slow the conversation down
and say, look, this is,this is my audience.
I know my audience best.This is how to work with me.
And then when you've beenin the game for a long time,
you start to get that leverage as well,
where you could just say, listen,

(15:17):
these are the terms in working with me.
If you wanna work with me, great.
This is kind of how it goes down.
Um, previously in thepast it was sort of like,
it felt like more momand pop type of brands
and not these big PR agencies.
I mean, I remember one timeat CESI met with a company
and she didn't have money for a booth
or didn't have money for a presence,
and we literally sat on thefloor of the convention center.

(15:39):
She was showing me herproduct, like a prototype
of her product and wantedme to, um, you know,
promoted on my channeland things like that.
Just, I, it feels likethose days are gone.
I mean, now you even see big brands
that are established doing Kickstarters,
which makes no sense to me.
So, um, the game is very different.
There's a lot of money in thegame now, so obviously things

(15:59):
have kind of wrangled in alittle bit, which is okay.
But to the extent where it's sort of,
you lose the individuality and,
and things kind of start tofeel the same after a while,
but of course there's alwaysoutliers to everything.
- Sure. I hear a lot
of folks talk about movingaway from subscribers
as the main data point theycare about with, uh, creator.

(16:20):
Uh, and I hear a lot more aboutviews, view through rates,
uh, you know, new versusreturning audience.
Are you hearing the same thing?
What are the types of, of metrics
that you find yourself focusedon with video performance?
- Yeah. Um, subscribers really is kind
of a vanity number's kind ofan, an archaic number, just
because it's really not about that.
Just because, um, the wayYouTube is, it doesn't just,

(16:43):
when you go to YouTube, youland on the YouTube homepage,
you go to youtube.com,
it doesn't show you allyour subscribers videos.
It shows videos that, thatthey think you will like.
So it gets to the point wheresubscribership really doesn't
matter that much
because, you know, right now, 80, 87%
of my views comes fromnon-subscribers already.
So you really don't makevideos for your subscribers.

(17:05):
You make videos for the algorithm rhythm
and make videos for search.
That's typically what youdo when you're making videos
and you're trying to get a lot of views.
Uh, so subscriber's nota really big number.
Click through rate's kind of a big
number that you look at early.
So you make a video, you put it out there,
you wait about an hour,look at clickthrough rate,
and if a clickthrough rateis low, that means thumbnail
and title are two things

(17:26):
that are not working for that video.
Clickthrough rate is essentially when
that video is presented to someone,
whether it's on their homepage,whether they search for it,
or they clicking that video or not.
If they're not clickingit, it could be title,
it could be thumbnail, but they are
being presented with that video.
So that's a big indication if
that video is gonna havesuccess in the long run or not.
And that's at that pointwhere I start to panic

(17:47):
and, you know, changethumbnail and change title
and kind of work my way through that.
Um, but at this point inmy career, I'm, I'm, I know
that they may, that may happen.
So I always have three titles ready to go
and always have two thumbnails ready
to go for each video too.
- Oh, let's stay with that for a second.
'cause I don't, I, many years ago, our,
our mutual friend Austin Evansonce, um, said to me that
before I got into thecontent creation game,

(18:10):
I'd better be really goodat thumbnails and titles,
because that was the thingthat was gonna drive top
of funnel more than anything else.
Of course, that's proven to be true.
Uh, your experience reinforces that.
Um, how do you think about title creation
and thumbnail generation?
And, and I, I really, I,
I wanna really couch this in the view
of you being independent, right?
You don't have somebodywho, whose sole job is

(18:31):
to create thumbnails for you.
You have to use the time for thumbnails
that eventually never get used.
Um, how do you plan for that?
What is your philosophyaround how to build those and,
and which ones, what are the metrics, or,
or maybe I should say, what arethe characteristics you look
for in the thumbnailsyou wanna start with?
- It's tough. Um, to, to behonest, make, making videos

(18:53):
to me is the easy part.
All the other stuff isthe hard part for me.
Um, titles is one of thosethings that I use a lot
of AI tools, and I'm sure we'll talk about
that a little bit later.
But, um, I use a lot ofAI tools to help me. You
- Title, you're preview, you're previewing
the interview before.
I'm ready for it. How dare you. How dare
- You.
You like that? I'm doing alittle retention editing for you.
That's nice. And comingup next we're gonna talk

(19:13):
about AI and how No,
- No, no, no.
Using that, we're gonna, we'regonna capture that at the end
of the interview, , but okay.
So you were saying, so youuse AI tools, I assume,
like chat GPT or something similar?
Yeah, title Generation. So,
- Yeah, so I, I, so essentiallyI come up with a basic title
and then I, I would tell chat GPT, like
I'm looking for a YouTube title.

(19:34):
I would like six outta 10 sensationalism
and, you know, make me 10, maybe 10 titles
and explain why you made each one.
And then from there I see all 10 titles,
and then there's one that pops out to me.
I'll say, okay, make me threetitles based off this one.
And I kind of work my way through it.
Then I make a humandecision at the end to kind
of grab a title that, thatI, that I particularly like.

(19:54):
So I think of what would Iclick on as far as a title?
Like what title grabs my interest,
because there's some titlesthat I see on a YouTube video.
I'm like, wow, like, that's a great title.
Like, I totally get why that works.
So I try to build those titles up.
Um, so that's kind of a big one.
I use AI to sort of help out.
Also when it comes to some content, it's,
it's kind of a continued series.

(20:15):
So the, the title'salready made for me, right?
If it's you're reviewinga phone, it's kind of hard
to make a crazy title.
Right. Um,
- So when we dropped off
before your camera decidedit hated me, ,
which I assume is the reasonthat that just happened,
, uh, we weretalking about your, uh, uh,
how you were thinking aboutthumbnails and titles.
I think we got titlespretty well established,

(20:36):
but I wanna hear moreabout, about thumbnails.
Now you build them yourself,
you don't have a teambuilding your thumbnails.
Um, are you using otherpeople's, uh, thumbnails
that have succeeded as your template?
Are you conceiving of themcompletely from scratch?
Or do you have templates you'veput together that you like,
that you use, uh, as your,uh, as your starting place?
- Yeah. For me it is just, um,when it comes to cell phones,

(21:00):
I pretty much have thisvery consistent thumbnail
that I've known to, to work.
So it's just kind of the wayI have the phone arranged
and take a picture of a nicewallpaper and kind of do that
and throw a little text on the screen.
So I don't have a lot,
but when it comes to other products
that are not cell phones,that's sort of where I,
I really start to strugglethat that's sort of where

(21:21):
I will look at otherthumbnails for inspiration
or I'll just try to figure something out
or kind of play with it a little bit.
Um, yeah, it's just,it is just a struggle.
Like, like I said, titlesand thumbnails are the most
important things, andthose are the things that
I really are not the best at.
So that's kind of, that's kind
of where I struggle a little bit.
And kind of, kind of correctyou a little bit, I actually do

(21:42):
use a thumbnail guy if it's athumbnail that I will struggle
with, like, if it's not acell phone, if it's something
very specific and it was like a, a car
or something different, Iwill work with a guy, kind
of like a one-off thing, workwith a graphic design artist
who will make a thumbnailfor me at that point.
But majority of thetopics are cell phones.
And I can do thosethumbnails without a problem.

(22:04):
- I, I have to confessthat I'm thinking about
that a little bit selfishly,
because I too am creating my own
thumbnails and they're not good.
And I need, I, I, I need tofigure out how to do it better.
So if at some point you want to yell at me
and tell me how I can domine better, we can take
that offline .
Um, so you've had all of this
growth over the last year personally, uh,
as well as professionally, right?

(22:24):
You've had, uh, theopportunity to really give all
of your time as much as you reasonably can
to the work and all of this.
Um, do you think about new formats?
Do you think about, you know,now that you have the space
to do it a little bit, you know,innovation in terms of, uh,
uh, the kinds of videos you're presenting?
Or do you feel like you'vegotten, you know, you've, you,
you like telling thestories you like to tell
and these are where you wanna focus?

(22:46):
- Yeah, I mean, so, so forme, the, um, the main thing I,
I want to lock in is anormal, a normal schedule.
So I don't want to add anythingelse to my plate until I
am in complete control and consistent.
I wanna do two videos a week.
Um, I don't wanna work weekends,so I'm trying to get to
that point first beforeI do anything else.

(23:06):
And I, I feel like I'm getting close
to a format in a formula.
And, and kind of what I discoveredis when I had less time,
the time I did have to work on YouTube,
I spent it like 99.9% productive,
whereas I have more time now.
And I would say I'm not99.9% productive now
because I, in my head, Ihave so much more time,

(23:27):
I don't have to do all this, I don't have
to lock in and things like that.
So it throws it off alittle bit more for me now
because I'm not under thisextreme time crunch anymore.
I'm not with two laptops on my, you know,
doing two jobs at once anymore.
Like it, it's more I canreally focus on it. Now.
I do wanna tell different stories.
I, you know, I, I wouldlove to be able to go
to sports stadiums

(23:47):
and talk about the techbehind sports stadiums and,
and how we use technologyto, to, to allow us to enjoy,
have a good time at a, at asports arena like that, that,
that to me is the coolest thing ever.
And I would love to tell those stories,
but that is a lot of moving parts.
That is getting connectionsto these sports arenas
that is having someone elsewith me as a camera person

(24:08):
that is like arranging these things.
That's travel, that's lodging,that's being away from fam.
So there's so many movingparts on, on, on those things.
I just need to lock inwhat, what I can, can do,
what I can do at home, whatthe, the generating revenue,
revenue things that I do.
I need to get a bettersystem for that first
before I add anything else to my plate.
- As you alluded to earlier,AI helps with a lot of that.

(24:28):
You're already using it for titles.
I imagine Dolly
or some other system will be good enough
to start implementing for
thumbnails in the next year or two.
Um, what, you know, whatdo you use beyond that?
I mean, is, you know, is,
is your entire production line still you
cutting everything manually?
Or are you using other toolsto help facilitate some
of the things that either you wanna

(24:49):
speed up or you're not as good at?
- Yeah, so I definitely stilluse chat GPT-4 for grabbing
information about productsthat I'm working on.
So, for example, I just finished editing
an earbud compilation video
where I had 10 different earbuds,
and I'm comparing them all together.
So I use chat GPT to make a chart
that lists the differences between them.

(25:10):
So I had one, like,what, what is the price?
What's the IP rating?
What, um, what are the special features?
They have noise cancellation.
So that, it made this big chart for me,
which made scripting thevideo a little bit easier.
So I had like a quick reference
to look, to look up information.
Now the, the hard thingabout that chart is you have
to double check to make sure it's correct.
So that gets a little bit tricky at times

(25:32):
because then you're like, well,
I could have looked itup myself at that point.
So it's that. And then obviouslythere's a tool out there
called Gling that I useto, to help edit a roll.
So essentially what it,what it does, it takes
what you're saying and puts it like in,
so on the right hand side,
there's your video on the
left hand side is what you're saying.
And you edit the a rollbased off what you're saying.

(25:54):
So you go through andyou're reading it, okay,
I made a mistake here, you delete it.
And also uses AI todetermine what are mistakes.
And it uses AI to cut out dead air.
So if it takes me likean hour normally to chop
through 20 minutes of footage on here,
it would probably takeme 10 minutes to edit.
'cause it's, it's, it's 'causeyou're literally reading,
you're reading insteadof listening and watching

(26:16):
and then you chop and then itputs enough padding between it
and it does an amazing job.
And that's something I useall the time, chopping a roll.
And actually I can edita roll without even audio
'cause I'm just readingto a certain extent.
Um, yeah.
- Is that a tool that is,um, specific to your editor
or is that something thatyou use just broadly?

(26:38):
- You can use it broadly.It is not a specific editor
because it actually export XML files,
which you can inputinto any editing system.
Mm-Hmm. . Soit, you don't even have
to render it out when you're done.
Um, it does require you tobe connected to the internet
because it is using AI to actually do it.
But a lot of times I'll run it
through for three or four videos.
I'm, I'm, I'm gonna be editing and I,
and I'll have those, um,

(26:58):
those project files sittingthere if I'm gonna take a
flight or something like that.
And then I chopped throughthe edit really fast.
And like I said, you don't even have
to have audio to go through the edit.
You can literally just read the text
and you can see the mistakes
that you said and you delete it.
And you can also even uploadyour script, your transcript
to it, and it cross referenceit to the actual audio
to even get a more precise edit the
first, first time around.

(27:19):
- What about your short form?
I, I know you and I have talkedabout the, the pain that is,
uh, having to then, youknow, take a long form video
and cut it down into tons ofshort form because for better
or for worse, that's the name of the game.
Now you have to have a bunch
of shorts that go with your content.
Are you doing all of that solo as well?
- Yeah, so I'm using softwareonce again, cut Opus Pro
and Opus Pro allows you to put a link

(27:40):
to your video in there, and then it makes
a decent determination of
what will be a good short form video.
Now, tech reviews doesn'treally make a great short form
video per se, but if I'm ableto grab a couple clips out of
that, just to kind of have thecon the, the consistent flow
of uploading content,which is also the name
of the game now, um, it does help out.
So if I upload one YouTubevideo's, 15 minutes,

(28:02):
it'll probably generate 10 clips.
I would say probably threeor four of those are usable
for me to upload on TikTok,Instagram, YouTube shorts.
So I have basically, I'min every, I'm in every, uh,
platform and I'm justconsistently uploading something
and hopefully someone watches that
and will continue watching thefull form video on YouTube.
That's sort of the, the goal, um, of that.

(28:26):
I wish I could go without doing that,
but at the same time, ifyou're a content creator
or you're a person that's in a profession
and you don't go with the trends,
you're gonna get left behind.
So it's something that I haveto actually consistently do.
- Well, you make a goodpoint. I think the other side
of it too, if, if I canthrow my 2 cents in, is
that there are now, asyou pointed out earlier,

(28:47):
so many other content creators
who are putting outequivalent quality content
that we just don't have the bandwidth
to consume all of them, right?
So getting the attention ofthe person who's most likely
to be interested in your videonow takes a lot more work.
And for better or for worse,short video content, you know,
a minute and a half or less,or if you're on YouTube shorts
a minute less, that's,that has to be the case.

(29:10):
Good, top of funnel, hugeamount of extra work for you.
But it sounds like Opus Clip
or Opus Pro, excuse me, helpsyou do that pretty seamlessly.
Um, do you ever get pushbackin terms of just like,
you know, the clips thatyou're putting out aren't,
are they not up to snuff the way
that you would do them ifyou would do them by hand?
Or is it you generally onthe same quality level?

(29:32):
- Yeah, so I'm not getting any feedback.
I mean, the only feedback Iwill have is for, for myself.
Like, I look at these clips andI'm just like, eh, you know,
but also your short formaudience is different
than your long form audience.
So the short form contentI'm putting out is not viewed
by my long form audience.
And, and YouTube has a stat for that.
Um, YouTube will literallytell you those two

(29:53):
different, those are different people.
Um, you know, when Iparticularly go to YouTube,
my feed is full of long form video.
My wife goes to YouTube, allher feed is short form video.
There's two different audiences.
Um, so it's just, it's justone of those things that,
you know, I, I wish things were different,
but you only have so many hours
with within a day to do that.
I mean, I would love to spend a lot

(30:15):
of time on these one minute clips,
but these are notrevenue generating clips.
Nothing I particularly like to do.
And it's just kind of hard
to encapsulate a 15 minute video
in one minute. To be honest.
- Being a creator is nowmore complicated, uh,
requires more time.
As you were talking aboutbefore, even with the outstretch
of time, you now have on adaily basis, you've got a lot

(30:36):
of things on your mind.
You and I both have kids, more
and more creators arestarting, uh, later in life,
right there, there are still plenty of
15, 18, 20 2-year-old kidswho are launching their,
their content creation careers.
But I'm noticing a lotmore, you know, parents
who are starting their stuff
and now are balancing that

(30:56):
with their fairlyestablished day-to-Day life.
Um, how has being a dad changedyour perspective on your
work and, and tell me aboutthe stuff that's made it better
and the stuff that'smade it more difficult.
- Yeah, I would say justfor me, uh, you know, being,
being a father, and I'm sureyou can relate to anyone, uh,
that's a parent can relate,especially a father, um,

(31:17):
it's like there's alot on the line, right?
Like, you know, for, forme as being the provider
of my family, it's just I have
to really focus on the little things
that can make me different.
Like, you know, if for just,just like I tell people, like,
if I'm not making videos,I'm not making money
at this certain point, right?
Even though I have freedomsto sort of work as I please,

(31:38):
I have to work, I have to do these things
to provide for my family.
So for me, it's just moreof a sense of responsibility
to continue to be relevant,to continue to make content,
continue not to get left behind,
because it's not just methat I'm doing this for,
I'm doing this for my whole family.
So for, for me, it's just moreso like when my, when I'm at,
when I'm at work, work

(32:00):
and when I'm being adad, I have to be a dad
and I can't be focusing onwork at the same time, which
it's an everyday struggle to,
to be a hundred percent honest.
Um, it, it, it is toughto balance the two,
but I, I need to show upfor my son every single day.
Um, and I need to show upfor my work every single day.
So I, I have to figure out a way
to merge those two worlds together.

(32:20):
- I, I feel that it's hard.
Uh, it's hard, you know, I mean,
let me commiserate with you for a second.
I, we're, we're fortunatethat right now both
of our kids are off atschool and doing their thing.
But when I'm home andtrying to get work done, I,
I've got a little gremlin whocomes over here, you know,
and, and we're in my living room, right?
This is not a private studiothe way that you have,
although it's still part of your house.
Yeah. I've got little manwho's coming over here

(32:41):
who is insisting on, we gottaplay games, we gotta do stuff.
I need your attention.I can't be here focused.
I, I imagine for you, particularly given
that this has been your livelihood
before he showed up, that's been a, a,
an adjustment over theyears to figure out how
to make those, you know,priorities, the ones
that you wanna make with him,you know, the most important.
But at the same time, also keeping track

(33:01):
of your work schedule andyour production schedule
and your commitment toyour sponsors and whatnot.
That's a lot to juggle.
- Yeah. And you know, I've sortof been juggling everything
for, for a very long time,and it's easier than it was,
but having the full-timejob, having the child
and doing the YouTube thing, it, it was very tough.

(33:22):
I mean, it was just sort oflike, I didn't have a life.
- Not to mention having a partner, I mean,
we're both also married.
Like, it's not as if you'redoing this as a single dad.
Yeah. So balancing all of that,
and you're, you're at home
relationships, uh, do you get a break?
Do you get a vacation to yourself?
Do you get, I mean, youknow, what do you do?
What do you do to like, giveyourself your alone time?
- You know, , the onlything I, the only thing I get

(33:43):
to do four months outtathe year is play golf.
Uh, that's kind of, that'skind of my, my my me time.
Um, so I would try
to get out early in themorning on a weekend, kind
of play golf, and if I havea slower day during the week,
I can get out and play nine holes.
Um, I try to get to the gym and exercise.
So it's just, it's just,it's kind of those things,
you know, I don't, I don't know.

(34:04):
I don't know the last timeI've had like a fun vacation,
thankfully with YouTube, I do travel a lot
and I'm able to take anextra day if I go somewhere.
And, and that's, that's fine.
But for the most part it'sjust, it's this crazy madhouse
that I'm always like constantly running
and feel like I'm alwaysputting out fires.
And, you know, I've only been full-time,
just a little less than a year.

(34:25):
And when I went full-time, it was
like a lot of other stuff going on too.
So it wasn't like, ah, I'm full-time.
It was just like, okay, I'm full time now.
It's go time now it's go time.
But I need to get to a space or,
or a spot where I'm just content
and say, okay, this ismy schedule, this is
how I'm gonna work it,this is my vacation.
And really treat it as anight, like, treat it as a job

(34:46):
and go home when I get to go home, go home
and turn my mind off from work.
And that is just, has a constant struggle.
Um, I, I really hope Ican get to that point.
- I, I'm sure you can.
I mean, you and I have had the pleasure
of knowing each other forGod, seven years now at least.
Um, boy that went fast,, um, and,

(35:08):
and I've been, I've reallyadmired your progression not only
as a professional contentcreator, but as a husband
and a dad and watchingyou, you know, figure
struggles is not theword I would use for you.
You've, you've used it once or twice, but,
but, you know, adjusting,figuring out, you know,
you're a surfer, you'rejust riding the waves
and I think you've gota real, um, commitment

(35:29):
that is admirable and,
and is not different than alot of other people too, right?
We're all in this struggle together.
So, I mean, let me justsay as a, as a sidebar,
kudos, man, you're doing it right.
It's hard, but you're doingit right. Appreciate that.
And, and I think golfingsounds to me like a great,
a great value add for you.
I think you should thinkabout becoming a golf
influencer. I'm justthrowing that out there.
- Well, I, I have a golf Instagram

(35:50):
that I i that I do not promote.
'cause I want organic following. Okay.
I don't want friends tofollow, just to follow.
So I have a golf Instagramand it gets pretty confused.
I don't have a lot of followers, but I,
and, and, and I enjoy it.
But then here comes the struggle, Jay.
I turn everything into a business.
I can't just enjoythings, to enjoy things.
So then I, like, I was tryingto like record one of my,

(36:11):
like, record around while playing,
but then I'm like, no, I'mfocusing on the camera,
focusing on setting upthe shot, focusing on,
and it's just like, no, I,I wanna do this to relax.
I wanna do this to enjoy things.
So it, yeah, it, it gets tothat point where I, I try
to make everything into abusiness, unfortunately.
Like I have a 3D printer that, like, I'm,
I'm printing knickknacks out.
I'm like, man, what ifI can like, make a bunch

(36:33):
of things for Mother's Day?
Buy plants, buy fly.
I'm like, why am I evenworrying about this?
I have a whole YouTubechannel I need to worry about.
I'm like sitting here tryingto make a 3D printing business.
Like, it's just, it's just my mind.
I'm a I'm a serial entrepreneur, you know,
- I, I love that.
But that also speaks, again, it speaks
to the ethos you're bringing to the work,
which is you're always looking,
even if the format isn'tchanging every video,

(36:54):
even if it's not somethingthat's spectacularly brand new,
you are innovating and you'relooking at new opportunities.
That's a, an importantmindset to have, I think.
Is that something that you've always had?
Is that something that'sdeveloped over time?
- Yeah, I mean, eversince I was a little kid,
I've always been, I've always had this
like, hustler's mindset.
I, I remember when ,I'm about to date myself.

(37:16):
I remember in high school, you know,
burn CDs were the thing.
And I was like, I had a CD burner,
but I didn't just burn a CD for ej.
Like, I had the full on deck
where you can do 10 CDs at once.
Oh. And before I went to school,I used to load them all in.
And then I used to havethe hot songs of the week

(37:36):
that I would have one disc for.
And then I'll take ordersat school that I'll go home
for lunch, burn all thoseCDs and bring it to you
after lunch for $5.
You get the hot songs of the week.
And, um, that was like my thing.
And like, I got to the pointwhere I was like, about
to buy three of these things.
'cause I mean, I was getting like orders,
people were like pre-orderingthe stupid hot songs

(37:57):
of the week thing, .
And I was like, I made more money doing
that than I did in my caddy job when I,
when I was golf caddy too.
So like, I literallyquit my golf caddy job
to just burn CDs for people.
Um, then I learned how toremote into my computer.
So I would set the burn off
when I was in my computerlab class that was right
before lunch, collectthe CDs, put more CDs in
and burn 'em duringlunch, and then come back.

(38:19):
So I would then have 20CDs instead of 10 CDs.
And just, I used to doringtones for people
who, who had next tail phones.
I used to make ringtones with the,
with the next tail data cable
and just, yeah, it wasa, it was a whole thing.
It was a whole thing. .
- I didn't know that about you. I'm
so glad we're having this conversation
because yeah, that isn't, if
that isn't innovation at ayoung age, if that isn't,

(38:41):
you know, an entrepreneur in the making,
in in action, actually Yeah.
I don't know what is.That's awesome. Yeah.
Um, our mutual friend, uh,uh, Andrew Edwards, uh,
gear Live, uh, I dunno whattitle he gives himself now,
editor, host, uh, grand Puba.
Um, one of the things I love is
that he does the same thing, right?
You have with him a kindred spirit.

(39:04):
And I know the two of you are great
friends, you talk all the time.
Sure. But I, I, I, I justwanna bring him up in part
because I feel like he doesthe, the same kind of thing
where everything turns into a business,
everything turns into a new opportunity.
And I think it's so important,
and I'd love to hearyour thoughts on this,
of having friends likethat who keep pushing you,
who keep encouraging you,
because it's one thingto feel that in yourself.

(39:24):
It's another when it'sjust you by yourself.
And that can get really lonely. I bet.
- Yeah. I mean, some of my best,
I would say my bestfriends in life are people
that create content as well.
And it wasn't just somethingthat I developed, it was just,
I, I, I realized
that my mind is very differentcompared to most people.
Like, it's taken me sometime to realize that.

(39:45):
So some of my friends I grew up with,
they don't look at thingsthe way I look at things.
We look at things extremely d extremely different.
And it's just, yeah, it'sjust, it's just really hard
to to, to have that.
And then when you meet someonethat has that same mindset,
you don't have to overexplain anything.
Like, you just, you just talk
and that person just talks back

(40:06):
and there's not this dualexplanation of things.
It's just, and it'skind of a nice synergy.
So yes, some
of my best friends are peoplethat create content as well.
Andrew Edwards, I considerhim my best friend.
And it's just because we, we
understand each other very well.
It just, it just makes, just makes sense.
It's just, it's, it's the craziest thing.
And I don't know, like mytherapist tells me that

(40:27):
I have this ni this naivemindset that everyone is sort
of like me when it comes to like, business
and generating ideasand money and da da da.
Like, she's like, no,everyone's not like you.
Most people are not like you.Most people are not looking at
opportunities as ways to Dr.
Drive revenue or ways to build a business.
And, you know, you're like,
like you're thinkingthese long-term goals,
and most people are justthinking about how could they get

(40:49):
what they want here and now.
And I'm just thinking theselong-term abstract ideas
and yeah, it's just, I don't know, I no,
no else way to explain it.
And then just like when you feel
understood, you're understood.
- I love that. I love that you
can find a sense of community.
I love that you also, uh, you know, talk
for a moment there about,you know, going to therapy,

(41:10):
which I've done too.
I, I think that's an importantaspect of modern adulthood.
If you can get, youknow, access to somebody
who can help you be amirror back to yourself
and to see the kinds ofthings that help you go, oh,
that's not how everybody thinks.
And I, I am unique in that way
and I need to remember that
when I'm engaging with other people.
Uh, that's a huge value add and,
and kind of even a superpower.

(41:32):
- Yeah, no, um, yeah, therapy has been,
you know, has been really good for me.
Um, I don't, I don't thinkeveryone, I don't think you,
you need to be going througha crisis to have therapy.
I just think it is good to havea conversation with someone
who, who has a skillset to analyze
and to who's not trying to be a friend
who could just tell thetruth about yourself.
And there's things thatall of us can work on.

(41:53):
I mean, you know, if you're feeling good,
hopefully every year youstill go to the doctor.
Hopefully you, you know, youget a, you get a checkup.
Maybe there's some things in your life
that you don't know is a problem,
or you don't know how it can be seen.
And, and, and if, if you havethe, if you have the means
and a way to do it, you shouldalways at least check in
once a month or something.
If, if, if, obviously ifyou can, you know, um,
check in at least once a month
and maybe there's anything inthe past or anything going on

(42:15):
or something you wanna,you, you can work through.
So you can say, you know what, maybe I,
maybe I thought aboutthat differently, or,
or that is a differentway to think about things.
Or that is something in mylife I need to check myself on
because maybe I havesome unresolved issues,
or maybe I have some privilege that,
that I don't realize that I have.
And when I engage with people,
I don't wanna come off the wrong way.
- Yeah. I think of it as, uh, uh, working

(42:35):
with a personal trainer,going to the gym, right?
It's not something that youdo when you have a crisis,
although that is certainly a good
time to start if you need to.
But that it's somethingthat you do on the regular
to keep yourself mentally fitas well as physically fit.
So a hundred percent there.
Um, well, let's, I wanna wrap us up here.
You've been very generous with your time,
despite the technical snafus .
Um, one last question for you.

(42:57):
So recently, I, I was, uh, listening to
of Vlog Brothers video, uh,
where I think it was HankGreen talking about, uh,
the various channels of, uh,content that they produce
as being kinds of conversations, right?
That, that conversations haveto end at some point, uh,
whether it's by choice or happenstance.
Um, so what I'd love toask you as we close out is,

(43:17):
you know, when you thinkback, when you think back
to your creative work and the conversation
that you're helpingcontribute to, you know,
what do you most wannabe remembered for, for
that conversation, whetherit's by your son or your fans
or other members of the community?
- Yeah, so I mean, I've,
I've thought about this a little bit.
Um, just sort of like talking to my dad
and, you know, he, he'lltell me things about the past

(43:38):
and I just have to gofrom word of mouth, right?
And, um, the interestingthing is my son will be able
to basically see my lifeand see how I've grown and,
and change from the age of 20 to
whenever I stop makingYouTube videos, which
I think it's will be prettyamazing, you know, um, you know,
you know, Lord willing, I'llbe here a very long time
and, you know, I continue to make videos

(43:58):
'cause I, I do enjoy making videos
and he can see my growth over the years,
which I think is really cool.
Um, as far as like a legacystandpoint, you know, I, I used
to think that, you knowwhat, maybe my son will want
to take this over and it just can kind
of continues on like the family business,
but at the same time, I don'twanna put expectations on him.
So it's one of those things that, yeah,
this conversation will eventually end.

(44:20):
And, you know, at leastI could be a person
that was on the cutting edgewhen it came to technology
as it evolved over time.
I mean, apple Vision Pro, right?
I bought it, I covered it,
and it's just like every new thing
that comes out, I want to cover it.
And I want to like be sortof like the Tom broke off
of technology and be able

(44:41):
to report technology over the years,
because anytime you watcha documentary of something
that happened in history, they dust off,
Tom broke off and he was there.
Like, it's the craziest,it's the craziest thing ever.
So I I, I want to be a dustytime broke off when it comes
to technology
and I want to be able to just,you know, categorize and,
and, and talk technology.
The rest, you know,maybe the rest of my life
or one day I just kind of call it quits.

(45:01):
So, I don't know, um, I don't,
I don't think legacy a ton right now.
And, um, you know, maybethat's a conversation that
that will organicallycome up with, with age.
But, um, it is interesting,even for me to go back
and watch a video from 10years ago to kind of see
where I was in that time and space.
'cause I don't remember making video.
I don't remember making those videos.

(45:22):
So watching it is me talking and,
and I see the same things I do today.
Like the, the, the samesayings, the same looks,
and the editing style.
Like all those things areprogressing with time,
but it still encapsulateswho I am as a person.
And I think that is the, uh, I think
that's gonna be really coolto see in 30, 40 years.
- Awesome. I can't wait.

(45:43):
It's been my pleasure tobe on the journey with you.
I can't wait to see what youdo in the next 30 to 40 years.
I think it's gonnacontinue to be impressive
and dare I say revolutionary.
So, uh, with that man, thank you.
This has been a real pleasure
and, and I love chatting with you.
I hope you'll come back again in a year
and tell us more abouthow things are going. For
- Sure.
Jay, always a great time to talk to you.
Thanks for having me.Mis, it's, it's an honor
to be one of your first guests.

(46:04):
And you, you, you invited me back again.
I, I love to see kind of what happens
with your transitions in lifeand, and all those things.
And I love to see wherethis thing turns into. So,
- Yeah, no, you're very kind.
Well, uh, you know, uh,world domination is my goal,
so just, you know, you canhelp me, help me do that
and, uh, we'll figure it out from there.
It's no problem. Let'sdo it. Alright. Love it.
Well, thanks again, uh,
and have a great day.See you later. Alright,

(46:26):
- You as well, man.