The Value of Learning by Doing [Brett Dashevsky]

Brett Dashevsky is at the heart of the New York creator world. As host and founder of Creator Economy NYC, he and his team build a monthly program of engaging speakers from all across the ecosystem. 

He's also the Head of Content Creators for Kickstarter, working to help demonstrate income alternatives to merch stores and subscription plans.

Between these two amazing endeavors, he took time out of his busy schedule to share some of what he's learned from interviewing and partnering with some of the top creator talent in the US. He shares his advice for growing your audience ("just take the work seriously!"), what Kickstarter can offer creators who want to fundraise, and what to do when an advertiser wants to take over a conversation with a creator (spoiler: don't let them!).

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
- I don't know that I havea large enough following yet
where Kickstarter could be valuable.
Is there a place for me on Kickstarter?
- The vision is not verydifficult to understand.
It's very clear, oh yeah,
let's launch some really amazing idea
and bring our community alongto actually make it happen.
And again, it's not a donation.
It's, Hey, we have this cool idea.
We either make it or we don't. That's it.
- You as a platform, Kickstarter,

(00:21):
as a platform also have productson top of that that say,
oh, let's take your stuff
and let's dynamicallyput it in front of people
that we think you could find value in
and they could find value in.
- Get serious about it.
And that is what separatesthe good from the great.
And they're intentionalabout what they're doing,
and they're confident about it,
and that they do not careabout what people think

(00:41):
of their early stuff.
It's like they're juston the path to wanting
to see success there.
- Welcome to BuildingValue. I'm Jason Nellis.
Today I'm chatting with Brett Dashevsky.
He's the founder of Creator Economy, NYC,
a large monthly group ofcreators who get together
and share some advice with one another.
He's also the head of contentcreators at Kickstarter.

(01:01):
His whole obsession is thinkingabout the larger creator
economy and ecosystem,
and how to get people connected in it.
We talked about how Brettbuilt the creator economy,
NYC group from the ground up,
how he schedules each individual event so
that creators get themaximum amount of value
with the least amount of sponsor bs.
We also talked about whereKickstarter can bring value

(01:21):
to creators and vice versa.
And talk through someof the different ways
that you could launcha Kickstarter campaign
and build something meaningful,
even if you're a small creator like me.
All in all, it was a funinterview. I hope you enjoy it.
If you like what you see orhear, you wanna let me know,
leave a review, leave a comment,follow, like, subscribe,
you know, do all thethings that people do.
Every little bit of following,every little bit of likes.

(01:42):
It all adds up and it really helps.
And here he is, Brett Dashevsky.
Brett Chesky, welcome. How are you today?
- I'm doing well, Jason.Thank you for having me.
- Thank you for beinghere. It's good to see you.
I've got a lot I want to tackle.
Um, but first things first,I would love for you to, uh,
introduce yourself alittle bit to the audience.
Give them a little bit ofyour background from, uh,

(02:03):
from the horse's mouth, as it were. Sure.
- All right. I love that saying. Um, yeah.
Well, my name is Brett
and, um, I am currently, um, the founder
and organizer
of a community here in NewYork City called Creator
Economy, NYC.
Uh, and the community's purposeis to essentially connect,

(02:24):
uh, the city's leading content creators,
marketers from both the brand
and agency side, as well as founders
and operators who arebuilding in this space.
Uh, and I am also the head
of content creators at Kickstarter,uh, where we are looking
to really enter more intothe creator economy, uh, to

(02:44):
basically have Kickstarterserve as a go-to platform
for content creators whenthey're launching their ideas
and projects to involvetheir community, right,
to test proof of concept, um,
and kind of take a more practical approach
to launching ideas as opposedto putting something out there
and perhaps it doesn't stick, right?
It's like, launch it on Kickstarter, see
what the interest is, expand your audience

(03:05):
and involve your audience
and community in actuallybringing it to life.
Um, and then I'm also the, uh, co-founder
of an analytics tool forinfluencer marketers called csi.
Uh, that is a commentsection analytics tool,
which funny enough came aboutfrom the events I was hosting,
uh, as well as the Kickstarter job.
So everything really comes full circle.
Um, and yeah, I'm basedin, in New York City,

(03:27):
the big Apple originally fromNew Jersey, south Jersey.
So New York is still a,a, a little far from me,
or Philly was the city thatwas near me growing up.
Um, and yeah, that'sa little bit about me.
- Okay. So I have so manythings I wanna dig into .
First things first. When doyou find time to sleep with all
of these different responsibilities?
I think that's the mostimportant question.

(03:48):
I mean, how do you take care of yourself
when you've got that much you're juggling?
- That's a great question.It's funny, I was just talking
to my girlfriend aboutthat in terms of, wow,
I'm feeling really overwhelmed today
because we have an event coming up and
whenever an event is, uh, approaching
and there's less than a week'stime, it essentially starts
to consume my mind, which is not healthy
because there are other things

(04:08):
that also require my attention.
So a lot of competing priorities,um, you know, in terms
of balancing my time, gettingsleep, taking care of myself,
I, you know, certainly liketo make time for exercise, um,
and find the best way to dothat is just in the morning
so I can get it over with,but kind of have a, a day
before my day actually starts.

(04:29):
But doing things like that and,
and finding routines in that sense
helped me balance everything.
Um, and, you know, I, I wishI was able to say that I was,
um, so regimented thateverything's in place.
Um, but it's just simplynot the case, right?
I it's always an, uh, an adaptionevery single day in terms
of balancing stuff.
Um, for a while I was justfocused on, you know, two things,

(04:51):
and then when you adda third thing in, it's,
you go from being like sixout of 10 at capacity to all
of a sudden 10 out of 10 you,you got to begin to say no
to certain things, mainlyin the professional realm.
'cause I feel it's actuallyhealthy for me to say yes
to things in the socialrealm where it's like,
not everything in lifeneeds to be about work.
You, you can say yes tothis on a Thursday night,
and it actually may behealthy for you to do so.

(05:13):
But when it comes downto professional things, I
certainly have found myselfrecognizing what is my capacity.
And, and the better youget at understanding that
for yourself, the better youcan get as prioritizing, um,
work and, and actuallybe getting to say no
to things in life, which is challenging,
but certainly is a thingthat you need to do.
And I never realizedthat I would be at the,

(05:35):
the time in my life whereyou actually have to say no
to certain things professionally,
but it's what you gottado for the sake, again,
of your mental healthand avoiding burnout.
- Yeah. Couldn't agree more. Um, well,
you've certainly got your hand in a lot
of different projects.
I, I'd love to start with,you know, what brought you
to the creator economy,
the creator community in the first place.
What inspired you to, to build a community

(05:56):
around creators in New York
and, you know, by extension,
what's special about creators in New York?
- Well, my original entranceinto Creator Economy started,
um, back in, I would say 2019,
though I've always beenvery involved in this space
before it was even defined asthe creator economy, right?
I've always been veryinterested in social media,

(06:16):
in marketing and creating content, right?
I was always creating YouTubevideos when I was younger
and playing around with cameras and stuff.
And, um, you know, I neverreally leaned into it in a way
that people have leaned intoit now in a sense that, uh,
it's become a full-time career.
I never really saw that as the case.
Um, but in 2019 when Iwas still in college,

(06:40):
I was always very entrepreneurial,
just throughout my whole entire life.
You never really understood what, like,
ENT entrepreneurship was in a sense.
Like, you just start an idea or something.
You never, it just like wassomething that was so abstract.
But then in, um, 2019, my brother
approached me about an ideathat he had, um, and this was
after we actually started a blog together.

(07:01):
And, um, an extension ofthis idea was that he wanted
to create a newsletter
for his classmates whenhe just started med school
about healthcare news.
And the ultimate ideawas like the morning Brew
of healthcare, but in avery simple way, like just
for his classmates,because he realized so many
of them knew about, youknow, the biological systems,
but not about the actualhealthcare system.

(07:23):
And, uh, I was working onlike an idea at the time,
so I was like always justlooking for something to do.
I had a job already lined up
before graduating, so had alot of mental space, you know,
which I feel like I took, took,uh, for granted at the time.
And, uh, I was like,oh, I would love to kind
of build out the Instagram and,
and kind of the brandingand marketing for this.

(07:44):
And we ultimately tag teamon that for, uh, a while.
And I started to gain a lot of traction
and I didn't even realize thatwe were operating in like,
the media space, right?
I, I didn't, I never considered like, oh,
I started a media company.
I, it again, like everything's so abstract
and that, well, we're actuallyin the creator economy,
which was just buildingup as Covid came about.

(08:04):
And we were growing this thing
and had some advisors come on board.
And ultimately, after about a year
and a half in operation,we were acquired by another
upstart called Workweek, whichwas building a collective
of like, industry expert brands
and was trying to build mediacompanies around individuals,

(08:25):
uh, who ultimately my, you know,
my brother was that individual.
And, um, I left my job at Capital One, uh,
which I was doing part,you know, on the side,
or I was doing the full time
and I was doing healthcarehuddle on the side, right?
Well, is Covid. So Idefinitely was spending a lot,
a little bit more time on the, uh,
actual role itself, uh,with healthcare Huddle.
- Yeah, yeah. Define, defineside hustle in this context.

(08:45):
Yeah. Capital One, capital Oneis being named, yeah. Capital
- One was my side gig.
Yeah. And I, I, I thought
that this was such an amazing opportunity
because I was so eager
to enter into this spacefrom a full-time standpoint.
And, uh, joining Workweekwas like my official entrance
into the creator economy.
And I made it a goal thatI wanted to make a name
for myself in this space, uh, as someone

(09:07):
who was a connector, whowas, um, knowledgeable about
what was going on and being built.
And one way that I saw to dothat was if I were to kind
of host meetups in a sense.
And, uh, that idea came
after I attended a meetupthat someone else hosted.
And I was like, wow, there's a lot
of amazing people building in this space
that I only knew from like Twitter.
Um, and I left with like chills

(09:28):
of excitement given theconversations that we were having
and how awesome it was to talk about stuff
that we were passionate about
and working on every day in real life.
And, uh, I said that whenI had moved to the city,
I ultimately wanted todo something similar,
and I wanted to do it every month.
'cause I knew from workingwith creators, if you wanted
to grow, you needed to dosomething consistently.

(09:49):
And I felt that like, you know,
a simple bar meetup could bedoable once a month, you know,
flash forward, uh, a couple years now,
and, um, ended up hosting oneevent a month throughout 2023
and started this organizationcalled Creator Economy, NYC,
which as I mentioned is,
is connecting the creatoreconomy here in New York City.
And the events went from barmeetups to really polished,

(10:13):
well organized events thatconsist of panels and sponsors,
and has grown into something
that I never would've thought of.
Uh, essentially now I'm backin the space where, oh, well,
I just created another media company
and now I'm working on sponsorships
and have a newsletter with it.
Um, and I feel like Ijust veered back to that
because that's where my interests lie
and where I have a skillset.

(10:34):
Um, and, and that's ultimatelykind of where I'm at now.
To answer your question aboutthe creators in New York City,
what I feel like hasallowed this community
to flourish is the fact thatthere is a true ecosystem
of the creator economy here in New York.
New York is New York City, right?
If you can make it here,you can make it anywhere.

(10:55):
It's a very true saying in a sense
because it's very fast paced,there's a lot going on.
But when you think aboutfrom an economic standpoint
and the, the creator economy,
you have the capitalhere in New York City,
you have the tech here in New York City,
and of course you havethe creative Entertainment
hub in New York City.
And so you kind of meshthat all together, um,

(11:16):
and it makes for areally amazing community
that's all trying to grow this economy
and grow in this space.
Um, and, and again, Ithink just New York City in
and of itself attractsa certain type of person
that is eager to get out
and meet people, is eagerto, you know, try to grow
what it is that they're doing,whether it's their personal
brand or their business.

(11:37):
And when you're able to put those type
of people in a room together
or connect them, there's alot of magic that can be made.
And, uh, it's been, youknow, honestly an honor
and a privilege to, to organize that
and to see that on fulldisplay right in front of me.
Um, so yeah, I mean,
the York is just a, a great place to be.
- Uh, tell me about the guests
that you're getting to participate.

(11:58):
Are they all creators? Are the
panels creators talking to creators?
Are they brands? Are they agencies?
You know, what's thescope of conversations
that you're happening in the group?
- Yeah, so it's a solid range.
Again, I, I try to reallydiversify it so that
the diverse group of people that are part
of the community are allgetting unique perspectives.

(12:18):
So instead of it beingsolely focused on just
content creation, right?
We've had panels that arefocused on brand partnerships
or focused on trendsin the creator economy,
uh, or, you know, upcoming.
We have one that's talkingabout audience ownership, um,
that's happening next week.
And so the guests that Itry to get are one people
that I just kind of have asmy own dream guest in a sense.

(12:41):
Uh, and people ask me
this all the time, like,how do you get your guests?
How do you figure out the,the content for the events?
And truly, it's, it's, it's not a science.
There's no really true process to it.
It just kind of comes to mind.
I'm like, oh, okay, we'rehosting this event next month.
Uh, we have these sponsors involved,
or I want to get these sponsors involved.
What would be a good topicto showcase it around?

(13:02):
And so, for example, the eventnext week, I really wanted
to partner with beehive, which is a,
a booming newsletter platform.
And for that, you know, I wantedto approach them on an idea
of like, why don't we do a panel
that's focused on newsletters
or focused on audience ownership.
Um, and once I kind havethat general topic in mind,
I can think about theindividuals in my own network

(13:24):
or that I, you know, haveas a dream guest, um,
that can talk and speakon these specific topics.
And so with that, I'll go
and I'll reach out to them,you know, either via dm, uh,
or through a different connection
and kind of just pitch like,Hey, we're doing this thing.
We have this panel. And usuallyeveryone is very inclined

(13:44):
and, and open to joining
because, you know, it'sa growing community.
The, the reputation of creator economy,
NYC has been elevated overthe past couple months
that people now see itas like, oh, I would love
to be a part of that, right?
As opposed to like, oh, I don't know,
it's, this is a smaller thing.
It's not really what I do. Um,
and I've been able to getsome really strong names
that are excited about it.

(14:04):
And frankly, a lot of people just love
to have the spotlight on them
and be able to talk andshare their thoughts.
And, um, you can really leaninto that a little bit, right?
We want to hear your thoughtsand, and I genuinely do.
And so, um, again, it'sjust about choosing a topic
that you want to discuss, um,
or something that interestsyou, and then going after
and finding, you know,someone in your network
or a dream guest, uh,

(14:26):
and approaching them withkinda like that pitch,
uh, about getting involved.
- Some of us love talking so much.
We name podcasts after ourselves.
- Absolute. Absolutely.- Yeah. No, I love that.
I, I love the spirit of comraderythat you're tapping into.
I love that sense thatcommunity is more than just a
buzzword for tech companies,
that it's actually something tangible
and it's a resource thatcan be, you know, utilized

(14:48):
and, and made for good.
Um, I really appreciate how much too,
you're talking about this sortof diversity in your approach
to bringing guests on.
Um, but that it's not, you know, a bunch
of brands trying to upsell creators.
You're talking to subjectmatter experts in trending,
you're talking to folksabout new techniques.
I mean, you know, I think wetalked offline about, you know,
some of the folks whotalk about the new tools

(15:10):
and the new workflows
that they're talk that they work through.
Um, have you yourself,you know, been inspired?
Have you changed your,uh, approach to, you know,
how you do newsletters
and other media based on whatyou've seen in the, in the,
uh, month to month meetings?
- Yeah. Um, that's a,that's a great question.
And by the way, to your pointon like not being too salesy

(15:32):
and all that, I mean, I'mvery clear with the brands
that I partner with that get aseat on the panel that, look,
we're, it's gonna be anative integration, right?
You're just up hererepresenting the brand.
And of course, I'll throw some softballs.
Um, but we want this to be avery like, chill conversation.
You know, curse, do yourthing, be authentic.

(15:53):
'cause I've been to some panelsthat are always just feel
so corporatey, so likeNew York Timesy, right?
And it's like, let's get up here.
Let's lean back and let's, let's hang out.
Um, and I found that makesfor the best conversation
because it's not intimidating.
And honestly, thescrappiness of my events,
although they're wellorganized, they're scrappy,
adds a layer of authenticity.

(16:13):
Like, Hey, look, we're just,
we're just putting this event on
for you guys in the community.
It's run by me.
You'll see me runningwith gallon gallon bottle
of water to refill the thing.
Um, and that's how it is now.
And, and that justcreates an overall sense
of, oh, this is nice.
Like, I feel welcome here.
- Um, yeah, well, itreminds me of, um, the,
the 92nd y the 92nd street,YMCA 92 Y on YouTube, that like,

(16:36):
it's that very, you know,it's, it's not meant to be, um,
marketing, right?
If you've got Adobe up there, it's not
because Adobe's trying to sell you
a new subscription to something.
It's because they've gota creator centric tool
that they really wanteverybody to know about.
And the person who's interviewingthem is giving them the
what for about like, well,
how does this really benefit creators?
Don't just sell to me.Tell me. Um, I love that.

(16:59):
I think there isn'tenough of that, actually,
- A hundred percent.
The nine two y is an interesting example.
Um, and also, uh, the Economic Club
of New York is another example.
Those were actually myoriginal inspiration
for Creator Economy N ycI, uh, wanted it to be kind
of be like a place where we come together
to like exchange ideas, which it is.
Um, but that kind of ideaof like this club for us

(17:22):
to have like civildiscourse on the creator
economy is always what I want.
And that's like kind of in the DNA of it.
Uh, and I always try tokeep that to be, to be true.
I, the original, I originallywanted to name it, uh,
the Creator Economy Club of New York,
but I ended up just comingwith Creator Economy, NYC,
which is so straightforward, right?
And, you know, not ahuge science to the name.

(17:43):
- Well, but I love that, thatthere's forethought in that
of being able to then movethat to other cities, right?
Because what's, what's toprevent you from then being able
to say, well, I'm reallypassionate about seeing what LA has
to offer, or, you know,
we were talking internationallyearlier, London, Paris,
you know, Shanghai,whatever, a hundred percent.
It's not so much that you wouldnecessarily be turning this
into an international franchise,so much as if somebody came

(18:04):
to you and said, I wantto do this in my city.
You could give them that support,
and there's a readymade template
with readymade branding ready to go.
- Absolutely. That, that totallywas also the thinking when
I was like, well, if it'screator economy, NYC,
it could be creator economy,LA creator economy, you know,
CHI, creator Economy,N-Y-M-I-A, whatever it may be.
Um, but I mean, to go back

(18:26):
to your original question aboutlike my own learnings from
the panels and stuff, a lotof my questions that I ask
are, some do stem from my own interest,
but others do stem from meknowing who's in the audience
and what they probably would want to hear.
Um, and you know, there'sstill so much for me
to learn in this space, and,

(18:47):
and I consider myself acreator economy generalist.
And, uh, because ofthat, I want to soak up
as much knowledge in a rangeof areas, hence why I tried
to have topics that are wide ranging.
So, for example, I mean, brandpartnerships is something
that I was ramping up this year.
And so I hosted a panel onbrand partnerships back in
January, and I mean, Iwalked away with a ton

(19:08):
of learnings from it, frombeing the moderator there about
like how to best approach myself
as a creator in attractingbrand partnerships,
how perhaps to price myself.
And that was somethingwhere it's like, wow,
I really enjoyed that panel, you know,
even though I was theone that was up there,
but I really enjoyedhearing all the answers.
And I get really lockedin, you know, like,
so someone's tried to makesure I'm looking at the, the,

(19:29):
the audience and ensuringeveryone's engaged,
but like, I really feel likeI'm having like a one-to-one
conversation with each of thepanelists when I'm up there.
Uh, and I think that that's what allows me
to do a really great job moderating, um,
and also to ask great questions
that I get good takeawaysfrom myself, the moderator,
I mean, the panelists themselves
may also get great takeaways.
And then of course, theaudience, when you can kind
of sense them writing something down

(19:50):
or nodding their head,
like that's when it's like, okay, cool.
So that hit, um,
and also about setting up thepanelists for success in terms
of make sure you're sharing examples.
Um, don't say things anylike too high level, right?
No one wants to just like,you know, share tactics.
That's, that's why we're here.
Um, and like no gate, no gatekeeping.
- Not only does this resonatefor me as an audience member,

(20:11):
it resonates for me as an interviewer.
So I want to ask the followup question that's really top
of mind for me, which is, Isometimes have conversations
where it feels really good in the moment,
and then I look at the tape and I go, boy,
that doesn't translate on tape the way
that I thought it did in my head.
I wanna know from you,like, what do you do to prep
and make sure that the interviewsyou're you're hosting each

(20:33):
month are as meaty as they can be.
You know, things that, youknow, it's not just, you know,
as we talked about before,it's not just a, a rapid fire q
and a of talking pointsfrom somebody's PR team,
but really sinking into, you know, the,
the authentic conversationyou're trying to have that,
you know, an audience will resonate with.
Do you have any thoughts,pointers, things I

(20:53):
or anybody in the audience who wants
to do interviewingshould be thinking about?
- You know, I think for one,
approach it like you'rehaving a conversation
and that kind of helps relievea little bit of pressure.
So, um, you can have a setbit of questions, right,
of course, to ensure that you're prepared.
But when you hear somethingthat evokes a natural follow up,

(21:14):
let that natural follow up go,
because then it feels like an actual
free flowing conversation.
And usually I know that thingswere hitting when people
after the panel will come up and,
and give you feedback, right?
That was great. I really enjoyed that.
Um, provided a lot ofsolid, um, you know, a lot
of solid insight or I love the way
that it flowed, it felt so natural.

(21:34):
And, um, if you create an environment
where people are generally comfortable,
as I was saying in thebeginning, how it feels very
authentic and casual and people,you know, want to come up.
And it's not intimidating.
We're not on a elevatedstage and all that.
People do want to come upand say something to me
or the panelists, that was amazing.
You know, I really lovedwhat you said, X, Y, Z.
And then also seeingwhen people post content
after the events, uh, isanother validation on like, oh,

(21:57):
look at their actualtakeaways that they shared.
And so I'll usually say
during the panel, you know, take notes.
We'd love to see content
afterwards on what your takeaways were.
Um, and that for me is a great way
to kind of assess some feedback.
I personally could doprobably a better job in like
watching back if we recordthe panel, watching back and,
and kind of studyingthat a little bit, um,
or actually finding peoplewho I think are, you know,

(22:19):
trustworthy to give good feedback.
Um, but like, those are kindof like key options is, is kind
of looking back and feeling like a,
a natural free flowing conversation.
Um, but I don't usually try
to get too hard on myself about like, ah,
that question didn't hit,or something like that.
Because usually people in the audience,
or even the guest themselves,like, don't, you know,
it's not like somethingthey're thinking deeply about.

(22:41):
You're usually probablythinking more deeply about
it than everyone else's.
Um, and you shouldn't, youknow, lose sleep over it
and just recognize it for next time.
I mean, that's just the casein any interaction in life.
- Well, I think you're,you're also speaking
to my natural inclination
to obsess about all thedifferent ways in which I've
awkwardly, you know, ended a conversation.
So it's fine. Yeah. It's now we're,

(23:01):
now we're getting into the therapeutic
side of my brain. Yeah, there
- You go, please.
But now, yeah, what, whatactually helps me kind
of just focus on what mattersin life is getting past
that aspect of like, givinga shit what people think and,
and really recognizingthat it's not that deep,
because I tap into kind of my own mental
and think about, well, we're all
more similar than we are not.

(23:22):
And when, uh, there's anawkward interaction with you
and someone else, my perception of
that individual doesn'treally change much.
I, you know, like,
or I don't really think too much about
how it wasn't like anawkward leaving situation.
Like, for example, I wassaying bye to someone at,
um, my last event.
And, um, they, you know, they were a woman
and they went for a dap up.
And I went for a, and Ilike went, um, I hugged her,

(23:45):
but I dapped up her other,you know, male friend.
And why was I hugging her?
I, you know, well, she probablywould've preferred the dap
up and it was like alittle awkward, but like,
played it cool, and like,you know, if she's going home
and thinking all about that, then
no problem, I guess whatever.
But I'm like, whatever, thanksso much for coming, whatever.
We had a great conversation before
that interaction's not gonnacompletely Trump, you know,

(24:06):
all the good stuff thatwe were talking about
and the way that we vibed
and, um, those are things like,
it's just, you can't lose sleep over.
It's, it's too distracting.
It's a waste of, of,of mental real estate.
- I don't know. And that's,that's the kind of stuff
that haunts me at three in themorning when I can't sleep.
But that's also, youknow, it's my note, my
that's my own neurosis on display.
That's, that's a different problem
and a different conversation .

(24:26):
Um, I love that.
I, I, I, I just wanna recap for a second
'cause I think there'ssomething really special here
because, you know, there's nothing,
and I don't mean this to be offensive,
but there's nothing innovative about
what you're talking about in the sense
that it's not a new formatthat's no, you know,
there's no new constructthat you're exploring,
which you're, what you've doneis taking the thing we're all
craving the most, which isinterconnectivity, right?

(24:47):
We wanna feel like we're part of a tribe.
We wanna feel like we'resurrounded by other people
who have the samechallenges that, that I do.
And, and taken that and turnedit into something valuable,
turned it into something,um, interconnected, right?
And it's, it's not, um, limitedto one locale, even though
New York's, New York has great creators,
and I'm sure there's a specialflavor of New York creator

(25:09):
that this taps into,
but I, I really appreciate that so much of
what we hear in media andtechnology right now is about
innovation and trying to build new things
that nobody's ever seen before.
And I think what you've tappedinto is something that is
true to everybody in any age.
And I think that's remarkablethat you've been able to turn
that into something, uh,

(25:29):
that really uniquely suitsalso this current very modern,
very forward thinking,very, um, you know, uh, uh,
postmodern, you know, trying
to get something new kind of, uh, arena.
Um, I appreciate that
and I think, you know, kudosto you for being able to do
that and stand it up in away that others respond to.
- Thank you. Yeah. I, I appreciate that.
And yeah, I think you're right.

(25:50):
In a sense, it's, what I'mdoing is not anything new.
I mean, hanging out is likejust the has always been a
human thing to do since our existence.
And, um, and,
and, uh, I, I think that thatis actually what has made it
so great and, and, um, able for me to grow
because it is somethingthat people are inclined to,

(26:11):
to get involved in now, whereI think that the uniqueness
of it comes in that differentiatesit from maybe someone
else that's doing similar typesof meetups is the individual
that's organizing it, right?
Um, that's, you know, inme in this case, you know,
my ability to connect with, um,
and make the peoplethat are coming into our

(26:33):
events feel welcome andto feel included, right?
Inclusivity is very important
that they feel like this isn't,
I don't feel awkward here,I don't feel left out.
And a lot of that comes alsowith like, the design of
just the event flow fromasync to the actual event.
And so with that, it's likeensuring that you have a,

(26:54):
you know, a very nice, you know,
maybe a nice graphic, right?
That's a great first impression.
It makes you excited about whatyou're getting involved in.
Uh, that also allows the thing to grow
because it feels legitimate.
So when people see theCreator Economy, NYC website
or newsletter, or the RSVPlinks, they're like, oh,
this thing looks legit.
It's not something that's scrappy.
I feel like I want to come to this.

(27:14):
It's gonna be well put together.
And I really try to live up to that
because I'm a big believer indesign and first impressions,
and it's my, where mystrong suit lies, right?
It goes back to my brandingand social media abilities.
And then at leading up to the event,
sending a pre-event email, right?
Asking for volunteers, um,
making sure everyone updatestheir, uh, RSVP list.
Lemme know if you can't go,here's my personal sale.

(27:36):
All that type of stuff. Um,
and then the actual event,
having someone greet you whenyou arrive, uh, checking in
and getting a name tag,those are all unique things
that you'd be surprised a lot
of event organizers or people don't do.
And it, those small thingsreally do add a nice element when
you walk in and someone goes, hi, welcome.
You know, sign in and, youknow, go enjoy yourself.

(27:57):
Having that there makes itfeel like you've been welcomed
in, you know, go enjoy yourself.
And then the post-event stuff,sending out a feedback email,
which is actually automatedthrough the platform.
I use Luma. Um,
and then actually sendinga post event email
where I thank everyone for coming.
Give the sponsors if they'rethere a shout out, um,
and maybe sending photos ofthe event so people have stuff
to post, right?

(28:17):
Those are things thatkind of add layers to
what is already pretty basic
of we're just bringing people together.
Um, and that is what allowsthe thing to be attractive
to new attendees, to recurring attendees,
and of course, the sponsors whowant to help fund the things
so that I can continue to elevate
what it is that we're building.
- Love it. Let's take a, a shift here.

(28:40):
'cause I want to talk nowthat we've gotten a real clear
sense of your investmentin the creator economy
and how you perceive,
and I do want to also shoutout, like, design is huge,
knowing that I'm showing up somewhere
and the website didn'tlook like it was, you know,
put together in Ms.
Paint, and, you know, thename tags don't look like they
were cut out of a newspaper,like a, you know, ransom note.

(29:02):
Um, let's talk about how youapply all of these principles
to your role at Kickstarter.
And let me kick off, no punintended, by saying that I,
I'd love to get a bettersense of what, and,
and recognizing whatyou can and can't share.
What is Kickstarter strategyaround creators specifically?
So when you talk about creators

(29:22):
and engaging them on aplatform like Kickstarter,
are we talking about bringingthem into the standard kick,
you know, Kickstarter economy
and having them launch specificprojects like, you know,
a a, a new, I don't know,a new standup special
that they want to get funding for?
Or are we talking about, like,I have an idea for a concept
and you want me to come to Kickstarter
to actually get fundingso I can go find editors

(29:45):
and find graphic designers
and really kick off my new podcast?
Uh, or is it somethingthat, you know, in between,
- That's a great, uh, great question.
Um, I think you pretty muchhit the nail on the head.
What, what, you know,Kickstarter has been around
for 15 years and its mission is basically
to bring creative projects to life.
And, uh, we've seen some verypopular products nowadays

(30:08):
that have actually originallylaunched on Kickstarter, like,
um, Peloton or, you know,Oculus that was bought
by Meta launched, um,cards Against Humanity,
that popular card gamelaunched on Kickstarter, right?
So a lot of these innovativeideas have launched, um, and,
and Kickstarter is a verycreator friendly platform
because they literally have,you know, tech infrastructure

(30:30):
to allow you to crowdfund from individuals
who may be interested in whatit is that you're launching,
um, and then allow you toset up reward tiers and,
and own that audience
that is interested inwhat you're building.
Um, and then when it comes toactually collecting the, uh,
you know, the, the fundraising itself,
you gotta keep upwards of like 90% of, of,

(30:53):
or 95% of what it is that you,um, have raised, um, which is
pretty much not heard of anywhereelse that, uh, like on a,
on a Patreon or even competing platforms.
Uh, so it's very creator friendly.
And so one of the biggestchallenges that creators
who do come to Kickstarter face,
and I'm saying creatorsin the sense of someone
with an innovative idea, not necessarily

(31:13):
a content creator, right?
- Creative rather than creative.
A creative the video sense. Yeah.
- Yes, yes. They, um, you know,they don't have an audience,
a built in audience.
And so the challenge comes down
to promoting the actual event.
Now, of course, Kickstarter,we have marketing mechanisms,
uh, to promote projects
and, you know, give it homepage access

(31:34):
and put it in our newsletters
and get it in front of the right people
because we have, you know,decades worth of backer data.
Um, but, uh, you know, that'salways been a challenge there.
Now, if you take a contentcreator, right, in,
in today's sense, an influencer,
however you wanna define it, or YouTuber,
they have these massive built-in audiences
that they have built overthe past couple of years.

(31:56):
And so being a content creator is a, it's,
there's a, like a small,there's a slim lifespan, right?
Average YouTube channel lastsaround four to five years.
And so you want to basicallytranscend the platforms.
You don't wanna just rely onad revenue and brand revenue.
And so what you're seeing is a lot
of these creator led brands pop up, right?
Um, but they require aton of upfront investment.

(32:16):
And so you either go out andyou raise venture funding,
but then you're, that's dilutive capital.
Um, you can go and take out loans,
but now you're in debt, uh, or you can go
and bootstrap the thing, butthen you're tapping into your
own savings without theunderstanding of whether
or not the thing thatyou're launching is going
to be successful, and you'll be able
to get a return on what you're doing.
And so the idea with Kickstarter,
with these content creatorsis, well, why don't you go

(32:38):
and launch some of theseamazing, crazy ideas
and bring your community along the way
to actually make it happen?
And it's not a donation.
You're not just askingyour creators for money.
What you're asking for is, Hey, I want
to create this really cool thing,
and I want you to helpme bring it to life.
And we're not gonna createit unless I have your help
and involvement in doing it.

(32:58):
And so we either hit the fundraising goal
that we put out there, or we don't,
and look, if we don't,no worries, no one's,
cars are charged, whatever,
we're gonna go back to the drawing board.
Or if we do hit it and wewell exceed, well amazing.
We have proof of concept.
Um, we have the capital toactually make the damn thing.
Um, and now the audienceaudiences gonna get rewarded for
what it is that theycontribute to bring to life.

(33:19):
Uh, and, and the ideas can beanywhere from launching a, a,
you know, series or some crazy film
to launching somethinglike Moonshot, right?
Maybe you wanna do a crazystunt in a video, you're Mr.
Beast, and you wanna launch a stunt.
Let's go, you know, crowd fun on Plat,
on Kickstarter to make it come to life.
Or you're a podcast creator
and maybe you wanna launchlike an innovative mic
boom or something, right?

(33:40):
And your audience isa bunch of podcasters.
Well, why don't you go andput that idea on Kickstarter,
get in front of your current audience,
and also get in front of awhole new set of audience
that Kickstarter isgonna help you lean into.
Um, and so our strategy thereis really define content
creators that perhaps are in the midst
of thinking aboutlaunching an idea, an idea,
or are in the future, thinkingabout launching an idea,
and to have Kickstarter be intheir toolkit for the place

(34:03):
to go to ultimately bring it to life.
And we want to partner withyou to help bring it to life
by providing you perhapssome campaign resources
or promotional resources.
Um, and, and Kickstart in
and of itself is a marketing move, right?
30 day campaign is live.
We're gonna, you know, make this happen.
And a quick example to, tokind of close that out is, um,
there's a popular contentcreator, um, dog named Maxine,

(34:27):
the Fluffy Corgi.
And, um, their, her, youknow, dad, Brian Berg,
they launched a, um,
they launched a uniquedoggy water bottle, um,
and they put that onKickstarter to bring to life.
And so they tapped intotheir own audience as well
as Kickstarter's audience, andwere able to raise, you know,
$150,000 or so to actuallybring the idea to life.

(34:50):
So now they've tested proof of concept,
they have the upfront capital to be able
to actually produce it, um,
and of course, fulfill the rewards of
what people contributed to.
And also you can tap into depths of fandom
because maybe you're not justpaying for the water bottle
for $25 or something, butyou, maybe you gave $500
because you want to get thewater bottle in all three
colors, and you get to go andmeet Maxine the dog, right?

(35:12):
And so you can understandwho are your biggest fans all
through, you know, this one platform.
- I'm, I'm sorry, my biggesttakeaway here is I need
to get a dog and start a dog channel.
. I'm kidding. Um,I, I, there's so much there
that I, I resonate with and love.
I, I think it'sinteresting that, you know,

(35:32):
platforms like Kickstarterhave had this perception
for a long time that theyhave to be physical products.
And you know, what I'm hearing from you is
that there's some innovation there, right?
Maybe it's the launch of a film,
maybe it is something more digital.
But I also think it's interestingon the flip side of that,
that particularly for content creators,
when they think aboutmonetization windows,
if it's not digitaladvertising in some format

(35:53):
or another, most everybodynow thinks of merch.
And what I'm hearing fromyou is that, that the,
the Kickstarter positioningis, um, it's not
that there's one or theother that's good or bad,
but that there's an opportunityto really build swell
around some idea that doesn'tjust have to be a T-shirt
with your logo slapped on it.
And it can be innovative,it can be different.
And if you, if you failis not the right word,

(36:15):
but if you don't succeed Yep.
No harm, no foul. We learned a lot.
Let's try again, which is such a good
ethos to carry in this world.
- Yeah. That use, I mean,
I think you actuallydescribed it really well.
Like build a, what was it?
A bill, a swell around an idea? You wanna
- Write it down?
Take I got
- Steal- It. Yeah. Yeah. We're
- Recording, recording this,- Which is good.
But I think I, but I think too,it also dovetails with, um,

(36:37):
really good marketing technique, right?
You don't want to just throwsomething out into the world
and have it get picked upby the wind and blown away.
Yeah. You need thatswell of, um, attention.
You need that momentum thatgets built with something like
that, which Kickstarteris perfectly primed for.
Yes. You mentioned, um,other competitors though,
and I'm curious, not that I,
I don't want you to disparage other folks.

(36:59):
I'm just curious if you'reseeing other efforts from folks
like Patreon or Indiegogo
where they're engagingcreators in a similar fashion,
or are you trying to buildsomething in maybe a way
nobody's tried to do this before,
- We really understandthe, the vision, and,
and that's the thing,the, the vision is not
very difficult to understand.
It's very clear, ohyeah, let's launch some,
a really amazing idea

(37:19):
and bring our community alongto actually make it happen.
And again, it's not a donation, it's, Hey,
we have this cool idea, weeither make it or we don't.
That's it. And sure,
I may have money in the bank,but it's not about that.
It's, this is aboutlike a collective idea,
community powered creation,um, in, in that sense.
Now, in terms of the competition,I mean, Kickstarter has,
has competitors at Indiegogo,BackerKit, all of that.

(37:41):
Um, but Kickstarter is like the
legacy brand that's out there.
And, and Kickstarter does a lot
of different categories reallywell, where perhaps some
of those platforms are focusedon a select few categories.
Um, and so Kickstarter is, you know,
agnostic to any type of ideas.
And what's actually uniqueabout the creator strategy is,
well, the idea may notfall into a set category.
It may be something completely new.

(38:02):
And, and we're willing to take that and,
and, you know, work to make it happen.
Um, and, you know, Patreonis actually a, a platform
that we consider a complimentto what we're doing,
because if you're aPat, if you're a creator
and you're on Patreon andyou have like 2000 members
of your Patreon, well if youcan just convert a co you know,
a couple of them to a specificproject you're launching on

(38:22):
Kickstarter, well, that's fantastic.
And I actually would expect
that the Patreon members wouldbe some of the first people
that want to help youbring this thing to life.
And, and perhaps there'sa unique, um, you know,
reward tier on the Kickstarterproject that is like
for Patreon subscribers only.
Um, and, and so there, there'sa lot of like, complimentary

(38:43):
platforms that are out there.
And I mean, the thing withPatreon is that sometimes, like,
it's like, Hey, you know, keep,
keep doing the thing thatyou've been doing, right?
Here's your $5, $10, $50 a month,
and just keep creating content.
But Kickstarter kind ofallows you to veer off
of the treadmill for a little bit in terms
of like creating something new
and bold that can one, makeyou a lot of money, um,

(39:05):
can deepen your relationshipwith your audience
because they helped youcreate something and,
and feel empowered there.
Um, and that kind of allowsyou to maybe loosen the need
to be on the treadmill all thetime of like just, you know,
taking the funds and movingand moving and moving.
Um, and that's honestly justa greater problem in the
creator economy itself, is that people,

(39:26):
creators are trapped informats and treadmills,
and it's incredibly exhausting and tiring.
And that's why you're seeingthis trend of like, well,
how do I build myself to, you know,
be a business beyond just me?
And that's why you see Mr.Beast with like Feast Bowls
or you see Logan Paul and Prime Hydration.
Um, but there's a lot more that you can do
beyond just like a CPGtype of, you know, brand

(39:48):
or product we launch,like something bigger,
bolder, brash, right?
Whatever it may be. Um,
and Kickstarter's thereto help make it happen.
- I have so many thoughts. I love it.
Um, I, I'm in, I'm in, I,I don't know that, I mean,
so let me, let me try this then.
I don't know that I have alarge enough following yet

(40:10):
where Kickstarter could be valuable.
So my, my, you know,subscribers as of the filming,
you know, today is I thinkmaybe 145 on YouTube.
I've got a smattering of people
who download the podcast each week.
I can say the, you know,
single digit numbers ticking up,you know, every couple of hours.
And, um, you know, partof that is intentional.

(40:30):
I'm still really, you know,honing in on what I think of
as being the nicheaudience that I'm serving.
And I'm making sure thatI'm giving myself space
before I start to really rampup my outbound marketing.
Is there a place for me on Kickstarter?
Is there something where ifI have an idea for a series
of interviews where I'm gonnaneed to get funding to go
and actually talk to these folks,
or some larger project,I might wanna, you know,

(40:52):
build framework around,is there an opportunity
for me on Kickstarter in a way
that makes sense given my small audience?
- Yeah. Um, again, verygreat question as it comes
to our creator strategy,perhaps not, you know, not
yet on our end, but on Kickstarterin general, absolutely.
You know, if you can createa compelling campaign around
what it is that you want to start, well,

(41:13):
certainly you can put it out there
and you can tap into yourcurrent, you know, subscriber base
and your own followings, right?
Friends and family. Andthen Kickstarter is there
to help put it in front of maybe people
who have backed pastcontent projects, right?
That's what's so unique aboutour platform, is the data
that we have on past backers.
Uh, and, and usually if youback a project, people come back

(41:35):
to back more projects.
And so if we put in an email
or it's like, Hey, here's aproject you may, you might like,
well, now there's someone who's like, oh,
I really like this idea ofwhat it is that you're trying
to do, uh, and I want tohelp bring it to life.
And then now they may ultimatelybecome a subscriber of it.
And so there's some audienceexpansion play there. Um, yeah.
So certainly, I mean,
like anything could belaunched on the platform

(41:56):
and, um, again, the pKickstarter wouldn't be
what it is if we couldn'thelp with discoverability.
- I appreciate that, but I,I do think it's important
to distinguish, I I wasn'tactually even thinking about
getting specifically youor your team's support,
although I recognize that asa micro influencer at best,
maybe nano influencer asthe new term, is that, that
that's not a good use of your time,

(42:16):
and there's not much thatI could do with your help
that would be valuable.
But the idea that there are, um, dynamic
distribution opportunities that even
by launching a Kickstarter,if I do the due diligence
of putting it together, youdo actually have a mechanism.
And it's not solelydependent on me promoting,
although that is a part of itthat I should be employing,

(42:36):
that I think is really interesting.
And, and, and in my own experience, I know
that there are a lot of creators
and creatives who feelhamstrung by the fact that
platforms really expectthem to bring their audience
to the platform with noengagement opportunity,
no cross pollination, no sense of growth.
It's really just you,you built, you know, uh,

(42:59):
800,000 followers on Twitter,uh, bring 'em over here.
I promise you'll make more money.
Well, maybe you will, maybe you won't,
but I gotta do all that work.
How do I know that that'sgonna actually add value?
Um, I, I just, I don't know
that I have a specificquestion there so much
as I just think it's really,uh, important to, to really,
you know, call attention to that.
'cause it's kind of a rarity in our space.

(43:22):
- Yeah, I, I mean, in terms of like, uh,
like the audiences beinglocked in to certain platforms.
- Well, I think, you know, if you were to,
you go to Facebook, not tobesmirch my former employer,
but you know, when yougo to Facebook, the, the,
the recommendations that you're fed

(43:45):
don't often serve the larger purpose
of building your audience.
If I've got a page
and I'm trying to buildbuilding value with Jason Nellis
as a Facebook page,Facebook doesn't do a lot
to bring more people to me
unless I'm willing to pay foran advertising campaign versus
what you are saying, whichis using huge amounts

(44:05):
of audience, you know, uh, uh, data
and being able to segment cohorts
and all the fancy data science terms
that now suddenly it'slike I'm back at work.
Um, you, you know, you asa platform, Kickstarter
as a platform also have productson top of that that say,
oh, let's take your stuff
and let's dynamicallyput it in front of people
that we think you could find value in

(44:27):
and they could find value in.
So it's not just aboutbringing you the, you know,
the person in need of fundsin front of a new audience,
and we're just gonna do thatfor you as a, as a value add.
But you are actually buildingvalue for the other audience
to say, Hey, we, we know you well enough
to now know you might like some
of these things, give money or not.
We're just gonna keep feedingyou stuff in the hopes
that you find stuff you like.

(44:48):
'cause we think there'svalue there no matter what.
I, I don't actually, I don't know
that I could name more than two
or three other platforms ever
that seem to be doing something similar.
I just really, I appreciate
and acknowledge that, of course,now I'm gonna get comments
of 20 other, well,
you didn't think about thisplatform or blah, blah, blah.
But it is specific, unique to Kickstarter

(45:09):
- A hundred percent now, I mean,it's all an incentives all,
uh, you know, thing aswell. Sure. Like Facebook
- And it's feeding alarger beast. Absolutely.
- Yeah. You know, they'renot incentivized necessarily
to help you grow, becauseif the users are there
and it's like whatever,
they're making money anywayfrom all the views on the
ads and all that good stuff.
Um, but, you know,there's like, like Beehive
and all those, these, some ofthese newsletter platforms are

(45:31):
helping a bit with audience growth.
Um, but I mean, when you thinkabout Kickstarter, of course,
we're incentivized to wantto ensure that the projects
that come on the platformare a success, right?
Because we also need tomake revenue to ensure
that we're continuing tooperate, that we can continue
to be the platform that's,you know, helping to, uh,
bring creative projects to life.
And so, yeah, I mean,if you launched, well,

(45:51):
we don't want your projectsto not be a success,
so we're gonna put it out there
and ensure that it's gettingin front of the right people so
that you can get the fundingand that, um, you know,
there's some alignment there,
but it, it's actuallyworks, the incentives
to do align properlybecause you get in front
of the right people, um, and,
and can grow your audience that way.
And then Kickstarter, of course,
has a successful project thanis revenue, um, for, for us.

(46:14):
Um, so yeah, I mean,
it's definitely aninteresting model for sure.
- Yeah. Well, I knowyou're, you're, you know,
I wouldn't say new to the position,
but it's, it's relatively early. Okay.
- Well, makes sense.It's, and you know what,
I'm still learning about the,the world of crowdfunding, uh,
and, and how that model completely works.
So I just, what I, mydisclaimer here is, uh,

(46:35):
if there's some inaccuraciesin my statements, uh,
these reflective views of my own
and not, uh, of Kickstarter,
- Uh, I always good tohave the disclaimer.
I'm gonna put a big,
bold banner right herejust in case you're good.
Um, no, I appreciate all of that.
I, I think it's really interestingto hear these kinds of,
um, prioritizations from platformsthat sometimes, you know,

(46:59):
you, you hear otherplatforms talk a big talk
around giving creativestheir, um, support,
and then maybe they do,but they yank it away,
or the, the support never materializes.
Um, you know, what doyou hope to accomplish
in the first year in this role?
I mean, is there aparticular goal you have
for yourself in terms ofmoney raised for creators
or, you know, a number of projects

(47:19):
or even just some verticalthat you think is underserved
that you'd like to help grow?
- Yeah, those are allgreat, great questions.
I mean, I'll speak moreon my personal goals.
Um, you know, I mean, as, as, as opposed
to obviously our, our team's goals.
Mm-Hmm, . But mypersonal goals, I really want,
um, Kickstarter to be top of mind in, um,

(47:42):
you know, at talent agencies,uh, at these crater companies,
um, and with individual content creators
that when they do ultimatelyare thinking about ways
for them to transcend the platforms and,
and maybe they wanna launch something
that Kickstarter is atop of mind path, uh,
that they consider andthat it's in their toolkit.
Um, that to me is somethingthat's very important.

(48:02):
And that just comes fromhaving these conversations,
putting myself out thereon social media from
a personal brand standpoint.
And then people areseeing like, oh, Brett,
oh, he works at Kickstarter.
Oh, okay, interest, oh,they're in the creator economy.
Right? That, that's allreally helpful stuff.
Us having a presence atthe bigger conferences, um,
are all really important things, right?
Brand, brand awareness is,is certainly very important.
Um, and the great thing aboutKickstarter is people do know

(48:23):
the name, so it's just moreabout making it known about
what we're doing and serving creators.
Um, you know, this year I, Iwould love to see a handful
of content creators actually launch
projects on the platform.
Um, that would really validate
what it is that we're leaning into.
It would be a big win forus and our outreach efforts.
Um, you know, there's certainlychallenges there in terms

(48:44):
of right time, right place, you right.
You gotta, you gotta hit a creator
that they're actively thinking about this
or, um, they're changingcertain strategies to actually,
you know, lean into, uh,Kickstarter as the platform
for them to launch something.
Um, so if we can get just ahandful of content creators
to launch, I'll feel really satisfied
and feel as though the,the, this mindset we have of

(49:05):
what we're building and this, you know,
selling point has been really validated.
Um, and I, I, I kind of look at this year
as like a training wheels year
for Kickstarter in this realm.
There's been new leadershipat the company, um, a lot
of amazing energy, and it's,
and I certainly have beenfeeling it even though I'm,
I'm actually like a, a contractor there.
So, um, it's been reallygreat to kind of feel that.

(49:27):
Uh, but we're certainlylike navigating this space.
What are creators needs?What are their challenges?
What is their feedback here?
Um, and that's, you know,coming over the course of a lot
of conversations in months.
So, uh, I think that there'll be a lot
to hit the ground running,you know, post summer,
seeing some projects launch
and then, um, you know, alot more going into 2020,
uh, 2025. So

(49:48):
- Yeah, we're, and we're in the future.
Um, yeah, no, I, I, I love that
one question to bring us home.
'cause I think there's,there's a lot of meat here
to chew on, which is, you know,a lot of the folks that I,
I have had the privilege of talking to on,
on this particular podcasttend to be folks who are,
you know, just hitting

(50:08):
that first real hockeystick as content creators.
You know, they've, they've,they've, you know, or,
or maybe they've plateauedafter that first hockey stick.
But I, I'd love to hearif you have any thoughts
or stories from, you know,your work with creators.
Do you see any commonalitiesbetween, you know,
folks when they, they firstreally find their audience,

(50:31):
they really find that traction,they, they kind of get
that first meaningfulexplosion of following
and sort of the ones thatare really good at turning
that into something valuable.
I, I think what I'm tryingto get at is, you know,
any creator who sticks with itlong enough is probably going
to find some small amount of, you know,
sort of burst eventually.
But I, I'm really curiousif you see any commonalities

(50:52):
among the ones who take that
and do something to turn thatinto a career for themselves
and to really build thatmomentum into something
that maybe down the linedoes turn into a Kickstarter
campaign or gets them to headline.
You know, one of your meetups is,
is there any commonalitiesyou see there that, um,
folks should use as a goodbenchmark for themselves?

(51:12):
- I think a big commonalityis that the, the creators
who again, do go off
and kind of build careersaround them themselves
as content creators, is thatthey view from the start kind
of content creation as their business, um,
and that they start to treatit like, this is my product
and this is the product that I'm building.
And so there's periods of like r

(51:33):
and d, there's periods ofquote unquote prototyping
or coming out with that MVP,
which may be your firstinitial pieces of content.
Um, and then just like constantly
iterating, building on feedback.
No different than if you're building
a SaaS tool or something.
Um, and those types of creators are,
they're very adamant about improvement.
Um, and frankly, they'reprobably pretty obsessed.
Uh, and, and that issomething that is, uh,

(51:55):
a very common trait, I think.
Yeah, obsessed is, is, is super important.
And they're, they're just like,they're very involved and,
and have high standards for the quality
of work that they're putting out.
But again, they're not just doing this
for fun and playing around with it.
Like they're coming in andthey're serious about it.
Um, because I know a lot ofpeople who create content, like,
I'm just doing it for fun because one,
they haven't reached the self-confidence
of putting themselves out there.

(52:16):
And so there are way to kind of like
tack it down a little bit and,
and, you know, feelinga little embarrassed
of putting themselves out there is, oh,
it's just like doing it for fun.
It's like nothing that's like too serious,
but it's like, you gottaget past that mindset.
If you truly want to grow asa content creator, you gotta,
you gotta tell yourself,I'm serious about this,
that this is what I want todo and this is my business

(52:38):
and this is what I want my future to be.
And you gotta beconsistent with it, right?
The proof is in the pudding.
Like you gotta put in the work
and the work's gotta be there.
There's gotta be a trail. Um, certainly
with these four you pages, there's
that virality overnighttype of standpoint,
but that's not gonna keepyou being sustainable.
You gotta continue to comeback and put out the content
and then continue to improve the content

(52:59):
and reply to any comments or engagement
and again, treat it like a business
and take it seriouslyas opposed to like, ah,
I'm just trying this thing out.
Um, and so if I think ofmyself as a content creator,
like I have certainly grown
and I've de you know, solike LinkedIn, I'll take
for example, I reallystarted to take LinkedIn
seriously a couple years ago.
And, and I set a goalto post consistently,

(53:19):
and I was very adamant on it.
And here's what's gonnapost. And I was able to grow,
you know, decent following to now matter,
like a little over 4,500followers, which is,
is not a lot, but it's a good amount.
And it was able to earn melike the LinkedIn influencer
badge, which is like a verified badge.
And I, the reason thatI was able to go after
and get that was I wasn'tsaw like seeking it,

(53:40):
but I took it seriously to post content.
Um, and
for a little bit when I waslike not fully confident in
myself in that space, whensomeone would bring up my
LinkedIn post or something,I'm like, ah, I'm just like,
you know, I'm just posting'cause I work with creators,
so like I'm trying to learn myself.
And it's like, no, get serious about it.
And that is what separatesthe good from the great is
that they're serious about it

(54:01):
and they're intentionalabout what they're doing
and they're confident about it,
and that they do not careabout what people think
of their early stuff.
It's like they're juston the path to wanting
to see success there.
Um, and, and that is just a trait
that honestly transcends content creation
that you see in some of the best founders
and some of the best, youknow, employees at companies.
Um, that's just really importantis just be relentlessly

(54:24):
focused on, um, you know,achieving what it is that you're
after and having the confidenceto know that like, I'm,
you know, I'm relentlessly after this.
- And I think that was thatmissing piece of my intro, uh,
that the, for this episode,that's exactly what I needed.
So thank you. That's perfect.Let's go. Um, let's do it.
Bye. Um, Brett, this has been awesome.
Thank you so much, man. Ireally do appreciate the time.
I think, um, I for one, youknow, really got a lot out

(54:46):
of this in terms ofreconceptualizing my thinking
around Kickstarter and aswell thinking about in-person
events and what powerthey can hold for folks.
I, I just, you know, let mejust say as another one creator
to another, I thinkyou're doing great work.
I'm excited to see where it goes.
- Thank you very much,Jason. This was great.
Wonderful questions and oh, thanks.
Love having the chanceto pause from some work
to chat about it. Uh, my

(55:08):
- Pleasure. Which
- Is always great to clear the mind,
so, uh, this is wonderful.Thanks for having me.
- Anytime. Uh, before we go,if anybody wants to reach out
and engage with you, where'sthe right place to send them?
- Uh, you can follow me onboth LinkedIn and Twitter.
Uh, my Twitter handle isat brett dash underscore
and, uh, LinkedIn, just lookup my name, Brett Dashevsky,
uh, and you can also followCreator Economy, NYC.

(55:30):
We are at Creator economy, NYC,
on all platforms, just about.
Um, so yeah, check us out.
- Love it. Thanks again,man. I appreciate it.
- Thank you.