The Value of Musical Mayhem [Loren DiGiorgi]

Never take yourself too seriously - that's the advice to take away from this interview with Loren DiGiorgi. As a comedic musician (slash musical comedian), Loren's short-form videos are a throwback to the dad jokes and eye-roll punch lines many of us got from our parents and grandparents.

But underneath that silly veneer is a serious musician with a lot to say about the changing musical landscape. From AI and its effects on the broader musical population, to the joys and value of EDM, Loren offers a positive view on how the modern age enables more and more people to access music - even young kids - which can only benefit everyone.

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
- A, the AI generation of musicor art is, it's sterile and
- Clinical.
There was a, an episodetowards the end of the show
where the holographic doctor,who's an operatic singer, uh,
meets a culture that hasnever been exposed to music.
- And, uh, you know, Ifixed myself a cup of tea
and I have a, a paper notebook,uh, real high tech here.
- Don't let yourself get boggeddown by other people's ideas

(00:21):
of what's interesting orfunny. Reinforce your own.
- My brother and I, uh, whenwe were younger, we used
to put on these, he woulddo all the narration of,
of like this old silent movie thing,
and I would play the pianowhile he was doing that.
And so, and he'd have me in stitches
because he was so funny.
- Hello, friends, here weare again at the podcast,

(00:42):
and I know if you're watching, uh,
or probably even if you'relistening, uh, you can tell
I'm still not home.
Uh, my family and I continue to travel
and explore all new sortsof sight and sounds,
but that hasn't prevented mefrom sitting down doing the
work and actually producingthis week's episode.
Hooray me. Today I'mspeaking with piano player

(01:03):
and tuner Turn, TikTokstar, Loren DiGiorgi,
Lauren's comedic short formcontent across platforms like
Instagram, TikTok,
and YouTube has grown hima pretty sizable audience,
which is somewhat unique giventhat he's a little bit older
and starting off his careeronly in the last few years.
In our conversation today,we discussed his approach
to content generation,

(01:24):
what his family thinksabout his internet stardom,
how we can find more musicin our everyday lives,
and what sort of comedicinfluences does he pull from.
By the way, today's episodeis the 20th of this podcast.
Is that a big deal? Eh, probably not.
But if you're enjoyingit, let me be the first
to say thank you.
I would love to hear from you.
Leave a comment, leave a review,send me an email, whatever.

(01:46):
I want to know what you're enjoying.
I want to know what I can do better.
And I, if you have a strongopinion, I want to hear it.
I really do. So leave me a note
and tell me what you thinkabout today's interview
or any of the other brilliant interviews
I've had on the show so far.
I want to hear what works foryou. This is Loren DiGiorgi.
Lauren, thank you so much for the time.

(02:07):
I really do appreciate it.How are you doing today,
- Jason?
I'm doing great. I hope you are too.
And the pleasure's mine.Thank you for having me.
- Oh my gosh. It, I mean, this is,
this is a dream come true for me.
I think I started watchingyour videos, I wanna say
a year, year and a half ago.
And, uh, you know, I think
what really capturedme was the combination
of impressive stylings of music

(02:28):
and dad jokes, whichreally is a, is a unique
and specific intersection for me.
Um, I know one I saw the, the other day
that really just mademe chuckle was the one
where you were doing, you know,alright, let's do a lower G,
let's do a higher G,then let's do an allergy.
And, and that every time, thatgets me, every time. .
Um, I, I'd love to start
by just talking a little bitabout your background, right?

(02:49):
Because I think a lot of timeswe see influencers on our,
on our, uh, recommendations page,
and we don't really actuallyget to dive in a little bit.
Um, so what inspired youto start creating content
and sort of apply yourmusicality to this world?
- Well, um, I, I think, youknow, I was a piano tuner
before, and that's whatI was doing full time.
And I was tuning fulltime right up to 2020.

(03:12):
And so that, you know, thatmeant I was out on the road
and I was just driving around
and spending all kinds of time out.
Well, the pandemic happened
and businesses started shutting down,
and especially ones that hadto go from place to place.
So all of a sudden I wasindoors like everybody else was,
and with nothing to do.
And that was right around thetime when short content videos

(03:35):
were just taking over, you know,taking everything by storm.
So one day I just thought, well,
let me just, let me just try this.
And so I did a, you know,
a corny little joke with a piano run.
I can't even remember what it was now.
And, uh, that was, that was my start.
It was kind of a, a wayto, to use the music
and do something with itwhen I couldn't be out tuning

(03:58):
pianos anymore, and itall went from there.
- There's so much inthat I want to dig into,
but I, I do want to sort of take a second
and appreciate that that onehas to have a phenomenal ear
to be a piano tuner, right?
It's not something that youcan just sort of like pick up.
You have to be a professionalmusician yourself,
or at least very, verycognizant of the piano.
And its sort of, uh, uh, intricacies.

(04:18):
Um, in addition to beinga piano tuner, you're,
you're also a performer.
I've listened to your musicon Spotify. Shameless plug.
. Thank you. Um, youknow, did you have aspirations
for sort of broader performingwhen you were younger?
Or is it, you know, were you always sort
of focused on more thepiano as the instrument
as being the thing thatyou, you were captivated by?
- You know, I always loved performing.

(04:39):
Uh, I used to do, like, when I was eight
or nine years old, 10 yearsold, I was playing for like,
civic organizations
and, you know, piano recitalsthat everybody's done.
But I always liked recording.
So, um, that and piano,I always liked composing.
You know, I started composingwhen I was really young.
I was probably about sevenwhen I started just writing
little simple songs.

(05:00):
So I think between thosetwo, that's, uh, that's
what I've always aspired to do.
- Tell me a little bit aboutyour creative inspirations.
I know that when somebodyasks me the question of, uh,
what album would you takewith you on a desert island,
assuming, you know, youhad electricity, I guess.
Uh, I always go with, withMiles Davis kind of blue.
Like, that's just my go-toif, if nothing else, if

(05:22):
that's the only thing I hadto listen to in the world.
That's what I would thinkof. Uh, who inspires you?
What would be the album youwould take to set Island?
- Well, I've alwaysbeen a huge Beatles fan.
You know, I like, I like theBeatles, moody Blues, ELO,
a lot of that seventies stuff.
There was a Canadian bandfrom Canada called Ktu,
K-L-A-A-T-U, and they werepretty popular in the seventies,

(05:45):
and they had this phenomenal, it was kind
of a classical rock album, you know?
Uh, and that would probably be the one
that I would take with me.
It's, it's this obscure group,
but that would be theone that I would take
with, with me on a desert island. Yeah.
- I I have to assumethat that's as in class
who brought a nick toe fromthe day the earth stood still.
Did I get that right? Uh, yeah,
- That the same word?
Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

(06:07):
- All right. I got, you know,
this is, this is a game for me.
If I don't get the references,I, I, you know, I have to go
outside and apologize out loud to myself.
It's a whole process. Yeah.
- But if you ever have achance to listen, that, that,
that's actually a pretty cool, yeah.
- I, I, part of my goalhere is to take away
as many different albums and, uh, groups
and composers as we can tobuild a playlist for everybody.
So trust me when I tellyou, the more the merrier.

(06:28):
I assure you that's, that's on the,
that's on the list here. Yeah.
- And, you know, I had a, alot of classical influence.
My piano teacher worked solelywith classical music. Really?
So at a very early age, Iwas, you know, listening to
and playing to playing,you know, Bach and Chopin
and Beethoven, Mozart.
So those are equally strong
influences too, especially in writing.

(06:49):
You know, I think a lot ofthat kind of comes out in, in,
in the music that I write and the,
and the way I play, youknow, so it, it's funny
because there's almost likean equal balance of, uh,
classical and modern influence.
- I, I like that approach, though.
It sounds to me, I mean, again,
when you're talking aboutthe kinds of mashups
that you're doing, uh,that we see on your,

(07:11):
on your content, right?
You're, uh, combining, um,you know, classical, uh,
composers with ragtime
or you're taking, youknow, modern bands and,
and, you know, uh,combining them with Mahler
or silly things like that, right?
You have to have abroad, as well, you have
to have a broad knowledge of music as well
as a deep appreciation forlots of different genres.
Um, I think a lot offolks would probably agree

(07:31):
that while it's perhaps,you know, uh, important
to be pop culture, uh,aficionados in the modern age,
if you wanna be part ofthe conversation, knowledge
of the classics de
however you depen define the
classics is also important as well.
I certainly see thatrepresented in your work.
Do you get feedback from people
that they're excited whenthey catch the references
and the kinds of things thatmight feel a little bit more

(07:52):
obscure to a modern audience?
- Yeah. Yeah. I do.
Uh, especially if somebodywill, you know, somebody will,
will, will reach out
and say, Hey, I remember playing
that song at my pianolesson when I was, you know,
10 years old, or 11years old, 12 years old.
And, uh, so now I'm gonna go look
for the music so I can play it again.
So, yeah. Yeah.
I'll, I'll get feedback,you know, from that.
And, uh, it's kind of fun.

(08:13):
And then suggestions willstart coming in, you know, Hey,
why don't you mash that up with this, or,
or reverse it and try something else.
So that, that's fun becauseyou kinda get this feedback
and this give and take, and that helps
bring give you some more ideas.
You know,
- One thing I'd love totouch on a little bit,
and I hope I'm not speakingout of turn, but you know, you
and I are not 19 year olds whoare doing, uh, uh, you know,

(08:36):
dances to popular music, .
Yeah. Especially me.
And we are seeing, I mean,listen, I, I got two left feet,
and I mean, that literally,I'll allow Eugene Levy in, uh,
uh, oh God, what was the movie?
Yeah. Uh, oh my God,that's not a reference
that's gonna go well, if I can't actually
name the movie .
You've got two left feet.It's Christopher Guest.
Uh, it's not a Mighty Wind.It's Best in Show. There we go.

(08:57):
I'm gonna have to cut that down
so the audience doesn'tthink I just spent 10
minutes trying to figure that out.
- .- Um, you're, uh, you know, neither you
nor I are, are, you know, 19 year olds.
And it's interesting tome that we're starting
to see a greater breadth of creators
who fit across a widerspectrum of, uh, uh,
not only viewpoints,but creative expression.

(09:19):
Um, you have grandkids, right?You've been a piano tuner.
You've been a, a player, uh,you know, for your entire life.
Uh, how has being a, an older creator
and sort of buildingfrom that foundation, uh,
how has that worked for you?
Have there been challengesyou didn't anticipate?
Have some things been easier than
perhaps it has been for others?
- You know, it's really funny

(09:41):
because I almost think it was the fact
that I was, I, I didn't havequite as much, um, experience,
especially in the new platformsoffering, you know, short,
short videos and, and that kind of thing.
Because when I starteddoing it back in 2020,
I really wasn't thinking about,you know, okay, you know,

(10:03):
you gotta have a hook inthe first three seconds,
or else they're gonna swipe,and you gotta make sure you,
you know, uh, thealgorithm, this and that.
So I just kind of went on
and oblivious to all ofthat, just did what I did,
and it, it started kindof taking off from there.
So I think it was almostlike, how do I wanna say this?

(10:24):
Not being, not, notactually being conscious of
what it would take to do.
It almost worked to my benefit,
because I think I was just, it was, it,
it was the authenticitymaybe, of just kind
of like going on there andbeing totally natural without
thinking what's the algorithm want?
Or, or, or, you know, how,how should I structure this?
So, uh, that's kind

(10:45):
of a rambling answer. Ihope it made some sense.
- Absolutely. Well, I, I thinkto the point you're making
though, it's, uh, youwere able to avoid a lot
of early pitfalls by tryingto optimize, you know,
your content to fit an algorithm
or, you know, there's all these, uh,
trends going on in editing thatI'm gonna try and adhere to.
You just went with, no,this is what I like, this is
what my audience seems to like,

(11:06):
and I'm gonna doubledown on what they like.
Mm-Hmm. , whichI think, you know, you know,
we hear this advice time and again,
and it gets hammered home, andnobody seems to listen to it.
Sometimes. It's not thatnobody seems to listen to it,
but it's hard to listen togood advice when it turns out
that the real path forward is
you have to be good at something.
You have to be good at entertaining
an audience or engaging with them.

(11:27):
Um, do you think that, that, you know,
you chose short form over long form
because it just kind ofnaturally fit your rhythm
and cadence of the jokes you were making?
Or is there a version of what you do
for longer YouTube videosthat you might wanna explore?
- Yes, to both of those. I, there is a,
I do wanna explore long-term videos,
and I long, uh, long formvideos, and I, I do put them up,

(11:47):
but they're usually not the humor.
They're more music videos or a new song
or, or something like that.
But short form seemsto fit, um, what I do,
because I like, real quick,you know, quick moving, Z I'm,
I'm, I'm a fan, huge threeStooges fan, you know, I grew up,
I grew up watching The Three Stooges.

(12:07):
Yeah. You know, and like theone where they were plumbers
and, you know, theytotally destroyed an entire
house in 16 minutes.
Right. You know? Yeah.
And so, I, I think what I dolends itself to that, you know,
that's very quick short.
It, it's here, and then there'sthe punchline and it's gone.
And people are like, wow,what, just, what was that?

(12:29):
What just happened? You know,
- You're talking to somebodywhose father taught him the,
you know, at like four, so .
- Yeah. Yeah.- Yeah.
Um, well, that's a perfectsegue into what I'd love
to chat about next, your creative process
and how you generate ideas for videos.
A lot of creators keep alog, you know, of every idea
that they have, and then they go through

(12:50):
and start to figure outwhich ones they wanna script.
Do you follow a similar path?
Do you just record as ideas come to you?
What's your process?
- I get up pretty early in the morning
and, uh, you know, Ifix myself a cup of tea,
and I have a, a paper notebook,uh, real high tech here,
paper notebook and a, and a fountain.
And during those earlyhours where it's, it's dark

(13:11):
and there are no distractions,uh, that's when I'll sit
and think and just wait for inspiration.
And a lot of times it'll be like, oh,
maybe I'll do a mashup today.
So I'll start goingthrough melodies in my head
to figure out, you know,what should I mash up?
Do I wanna maybe dosomething different styles,
or, you know, combine thetwo melodies together.

(13:31):
And as I accumulate, Iwrite those down, you know,
and if I come up with a scriptof something, I'll print that
and I'll keep that as anarchive in case I ever do a live
show, which I wanna startdoing, which would then will,
will have to be longer, you know?
So that's how I sit and,and, and get inspiration.
And then I move on from there,once I get something that I,

(13:54):
an an idea that I like,that I wanna pursue.
- So let's say you land an idea
that's really interesting to you.
Uh, do you script it out by hand?
Do you just start recording and then
figure it out in the edit?
How does it come together?
- Like, uh, for a mashup,maybe? Sure. Great example.
Um, yeah, for a mashup, I'll,I'll, I'll write a, like a,
a script that I can loosely follow.

(14:15):
And usually I type thatout and I'll print it.
But, uh, the process in myhead is just picking out the
melodies that I want to do.
And once I get, you know, two
or three of those together,that's when I go to the piano
and just play through it a couple
of times just to makesure it's gonna work.
And, uh, from there, then I,I, I start doing the recording.

(14:35):
And, uh, it usuallydoesn't take very long.
It's, it's not a very long process.
- How do you edit? Are you doing
it yourself in the TikTok app?
Is there something else you're using
to make that process easier?
- I use a video editor.Yeah, I use a video editor.
Is it okay to mention the, the
- Oh, by all means.
- Okay. Yeah. I use, uh, theone I like is Video Leap.
I like video leap. It's just, it, it's,

(14:56):
it's got all the features that I want.
It's very intuitive. And, uh,so all of that editing is,
is done on the smartphone.
I don't really use anyof the social media, just
because it seems to be,it's just easier to,
to record it once andthen it, it's, it's good
to go across all of them.
- That makes sense. It's easier
to distribute if you've already got
a single file ready togo. Yeah. That's fair.

(15:17):
- Yeah. Yeah.- Yeah.
- It's ready to go. Um,- So we talked a little bit about
this before, but in additionto, uh, content creating you,
you do perform and you are aiming
to do much bigger performance.
First of all, if, if thereare performances coming up,
let's make sure to call themout at the end of the episode
so people can, you know, let'sget you some tickets sold.
Sure. . Um, in thetotality of your career,

(15:38):
you've probably seen alot of different ebbing
and flowing of, uh, musical careers
and folks that have come and gone.
And, you know, you're havinga high point right now in your
career and people being attractedto not only the, the humor
that you're bringing to social media,
but the actual music playing.
Are you finding a commensurate interest?
Are you finding a commensurateinterest in your music?
And is that, uh, you know, helping to sort

(15:58):
of also build a moretraditional sort of, uh,
artist journey for you in that way?
- You know, it's, um, the,the short form content
and the humor is generatingmore interest in, in the music.
But, um, so yeah, I'm gonnasay I, I am finding more,
more interest in it.
And I'm, I'm getting comments now,

(16:19):
and people are asking me, you know,
when are you gonna do a show?
Or are you gonna perform?
Do you, do you think youmight come down to such
and such, you know, to do it
because, so definitely there'smore interest in the music
and interest in, in, uh, some live shows.
So hopefully that can,that, that will happen.
And I, I don't have anythingplanned just as of yet,
because I'm still in the earlyplanning stages, you know,

(16:42):
but, uh, I, that is somethingI definitely look forward
to doing because I just, I've,I've always loved to perform.
- Well, I know you're on the East coast.
I I plan to be on theEast coast this summer,
so if there's a performanceI can swing up to,
I'm, I'm happy to make the drive.
Oh, I'm very excited for anything
that you have coming up,we'll make sure to promote.
One thing I would love toask you though is, you know,
you talk about instruments,
we're talking about very traditional sort

(17:02):
of composition via piano.
A lot more music is movingtowards computers, electronica,
you know, there's house, uh,you know, uh, uh, dubstep,
you know, and that we've gotsuch a huge variety of genres
of computer generated musicthat's out now as well.
Um, I was mentioning to youduring our pre-call that,
you know, I have a, I have a young son
who his new favorite game isWe, we play a song in the car,

(17:24):
and he wants helpidentifying the instruments.
He's starting to develop an ear for
what different instruments sound like.
Um, but when we put on a songthat's really heavy computer
or electronica, the only thingI can really describe it as,
like, uh, it's a computer buddy.
I don't know what to tell you. It just,
it's all computer generated.
Um, what are your thoughtsabout just what we're gaining
or losing with more, um, drivetowards, you know, this kind

(17:46):
of digital, uh, music, uh, creation?
Uh, is, is that opening moredoors than it's closing?
Or is it, you know, sort of, uh,
pushing us further away from more
traditional types of music?
- Well, I think it's opening doors
because, you know, forone thing, the technology
and this move to midi and,
and everything beingdigitized just opens up

(18:08):
all those instruments and, uh,
and all all that create creativity,
potential creativepotential that, that, uh,
that people can utilize.
You know, you, you can,
you can do now in aspare room in your house
and a, you know, a laptop or,
or just a tablet, whateverdevice, you can come up
with something that, you know, a decade

(18:29):
or two ago would've takena professional studio
and tens of thousands of,tens of hundreds of thousands
of dollars, if, if not more,to achieve the same thing.
So it's definitely levelingthe playing field, and it's,
and it's bringing all ofthis, uh, creative potential
to a wider, uh, you know, justto a wider group of people.
And I, I think that's,that's a good thing. Yeah.

(18:52):
- But do we, I, I guess my question is,
do we lose something bymoving away from that?
And I'm not trying topresuppose the answer.
I'm just curious if, if, you know,
does this shift representsomething that's a net positive,
or are we leaving somethingbehind perhaps as well?
- I wouldn't real, I, Idon't know if, if leaving it
behind would be more, I, I'mseeing it more of like a,

(19:12):
an a forward evolution.
But at the, but what you're gaining,
what you're gaining though, is the ability
to recreate all of that, you know?
And realistically, and I'm notsure I'm, I'm really not sure
that's a good thingeither, , but, but
- Maybe it is or maybe it isn't.
I I think one of thethings that strikes me
as interesting about itis, as you pointed out,
apps like Garage band, for example, right?

(19:34):
Democratize access tomusic composition. Yeah,
- Absolutely.
- Maybe the thing it takesaway from it, though, is, um,
some of the deeper knowledgeof music theory, right?
Because now we have thekinds of things like, uh, uh,
note visualization, right?
I can build a visual pattern for
how I want the musicpresented, which while that,
that lets me create music,
may not actually teach mewhy those notes go together.

(19:55):
They don't teach me aboutmain major and minor keys.
They don't teach me about, youknow, uh, uh, uh, fifth steps
above that, then, you know,
mathematically mean this,you know, related to this.
Mm-Hmm. . So,I, I guess maybe not trying
to lead, I guess the thingthat stuck in my head,
and I'd love to hearyour thoughts on this, is
that maybe we're losing a little bit of
that foundational understanding
of why some music goes together.

(20:16):
Because if a DJ is stuckon beats per minute, right?
They may not be thinkingabout how tonally, uh, uh,
two songs can go together.
Uh, or maybe they don't.
And actually what you'vecreated is a dissonant mix up a
dis dissonant max.
Maybe you've created adissonant mashup. There we go.
Mm-Hmm. .Um, do you think that
that's something that we're at risk for?

(20:37):
- You know, it, it, it's veryeasy now, given the right apps
and the right equipment tocreate something, a beat or, or,
or even something morecomplicated with little
or no musical knowledge.
Yeah. So, yeah, you know, that's true.
But at the same time, uh, you know,
the way I look at it too isthis might also get somebody
interested in music who
otherwise wouldn't have been, you know,

(20:59):
because it would've been outta reach
or it wouldn't have just
been something that they thought of.
And now they've done this,and now they've gotten bitten
by the musical bug, and nowwill want to pursue, you know,
will want to say, Hey, Iwanna learn more about this.
I'd like to expand this, or Iwanna find out why this works.
So I, I think it's exposing, um, the joy

(21:21):
and the benefits and the, uh, of, of music
to more people who thencould potentially want
to go further than that, you know, simply
because they had this opportunitythat during previous, uh,
eras they wouldn't have had.
- Yeah, I love that. That, that, to me,
that's the right answer,because that's what I think.

(21:41):
- Yeah.- Yeah. I, I think, um, I mean,
I grew up in a household full of guitars.
My stepfather's been playing classical
Spanish guitar since he was five.
He also played in rock band.
He exposed me toMississippi Delta Blues when
I was in, you know, middle school.
Mm. Yeah. Um, and, and beingin a home like that was great,
but I always felt limited
because the, you know, the step function

(22:02):
of getting good enough ona fretboard and moving up
and down was alwaysreally challenging for me.
And I never, particularlyas a kid, had the patience
to really sit with it andreally understand, uh,
scales even as a starting place.
But when I look at, you know, again,
we were talking about my son,when I look at his ability
to say, I like these instruments,
and I can now give him an app
that teaches him onhis iPad different keys

(22:24):
and how that sounds, Ithink you're right, right?
We're not limiting so much
as we're just taking a differentpath to the same knowledge.
Maybe that's the way to think about it.
- Yeah. Yeah. I agree.
You know, and there arethings to learn, you know,
for one thing, you know, likeyou've got a digital, um,
violin player, okay, well,later on, you know, it, to use

(22:45):
that properly, you're going tohave to learn that, you know,
a violin player does nothave an infinite bow.
You know, they can't justhold a note for a minute
and a half, you know, because
they've gotta change that stroke.
So it's those little thingsthat, that make the difference
between that having theearning the musical knowledge
after that, you know,will help and, and, and,
and just make things go smootherand sound more realistic

(23:07):
and, and just be actuallymusically accurate.
- So, another aspect of this
that we haven't really touched on, and,
and I don't know if this changesyour answer, uh, you know,
everybody's talking aboutthe, the general concept
of AI these days and aithis and chat, GBT, that
and Dolly here, and all of that.
Um, I'm curious if you've had any exposure

(23:28):
or thoughts about some ofthe AI generated, uh, uh,
music platforms that are out there now.
The idea that you can use atext box to describe a kind of
tonal atmosphere or environmentthat you wanna produce,
and then the app gives youessentially a version of that
that you can sort of tweak andmodify with, with verbiage.
Um, do you think that contributesto that democratization,

(23:48):
or do you think that takesit down a different path?
- Um, you know, that, that, I,
I think it probably contributes
because, uh, again, it, it's making these
resources available to more people.
Now, the detriment is, youknow, there are pe I, I think

(24:09):
where that's going toimpact is, let's say, uh,
you need music for, youknow, uh, a YouTube video.
And it's, uh, you know, I had a,
a birthday mem a birthdayparty for a family member.
So I won something light andbouncy and little festive
and, you know, put from some piano
and maybe a little bit of flute in
just for sake of argument.
And yeah, AI will goahead and generate that.

(24:30):
Now, that's going to takethat production work away from
somebody who is a composer who,
who say composes stalk music,you know, uh, little 30
and 62nd things, clips that, that,
that people would use fromthat, it would impact that.
But I don't see it, um, Idon't see it really replacing

(24:52):
composers who are, who are scoring.
It's not gonna replace a JohnWilliams or a Danny Elman, or,
or, and those are big names,
but just anybody who's, who'sskillfully is creating music
for, uh, for custom work, you know?
- Yeah. Han Zimmer's not out
of a job anytime soon.I'm with you on that
- One.
I, I don't think so. Idon't think AI is going

(25:12):
to, but you know, it.
But you know, I mean, withevery new technology comes,
you know, it's, you, you, youevolve, you have to evolve.
Yep. And I think it's, youknow, we're, we're right in the,
the line between music
and technology now isbarely there anymore.
I mean, there used tobe a definite, you know,
and it, it's all but disappeared.

(25:33):
And, you know, bothtechnology, the, the tech side
and the music side are in flux now
because they're, they'reall learning how to, how
to move forward, forward, uh,forward with all of it. So,
- Well, you make a good point.
I think, um, in manyindustries, we're seeing
that line blended so much.
It's hard to distinguish them anymore.
They're so inseparable. Um,

(25:55):
but it's interesting,you're talking about ai a
and I'm gonna preface thisby, I think my audience knows
how giant of a nerd I am.
Were you ever a Star Trekfan? Is that on your list?
- You know what, a,actually, I never once Wow.
And I never wa you're missing out know.
I know, I tell people, I,I, I don't think I ever,
I think I maybe have seen oneepisode of like, okay, the,
the original Star Trek. So,
- So this is gonna be a deepcut for like the four people

(26:17):
who listen, who watched Star Trek Voyager.
But there was a, an episodetowards the end of the show
where the holographic doctor,who's an operatic singer, uh,
meets a culture that hasnever been exposed to music,
but are all mathematicallyinclined, right?
They, they apply theconcepts of mathematics,
do everything around them.
And the whole gist of the episode is
that he becomes a celebrity,but they quickly outpace him

(26:38):
because they build an AIthat can sing, you know,
multi harmony, you know,
solos without any additional support.
And, you know, thatoutpaces him really quickly.
But the, the AI generatedmusic is all mathematically
interesting, but not actually tonally,
you know, valuable or creative.
Um, and so the end of theepisode, he sort of has to come
to terms with the fact thathis content that he, you know,

(27:00):
puts his love and energy and,
and soul, whatever soula hologram can have, uh,
whatever soul, you know, into
and is, is completelymissed by, uh, this culture.
Um, I have talked to somefolks who really do believe
that we're moving towards that direction,
that they don't hear the, uh, creative
or musical value in a lot of,uh, not just AI driven music,

(27:21):
but also a lot of the houseand electronica and the dubstep
and the computer generated music
we were talking about before.
My guess is it doesn't soundlike you agree with that.
It sounds like you really not only believe
that this opens up a lot of opportunity,
but that dare, you know,and correct me if I'm wrong,
but that, that in the end,our own creativity has
to be inserted into all of this,
and the technology is justa, a function of that, right?

(27:43):
It's an amplification of that.
- Yeah. Because, you know,I think a, the AI generation
of music or art is, is it's sterile
and clinical, you know what I mean?
It's code, it, it kind of becomes, um,
uh, what's the word I want?
Formulaic. You know what I mean?
So, like you said, it,it's, it's, uh, music

(28:04):
that's following a formula
and following a, uh, you know,a a an algorithm or a, or,
or a code, and it doesn'treally have that, um, you know,
that hu that human creativeelement to it, you know?
So, um, that's why I,that's why I, I don't, I,
I think it's more of anevolution rather than,

(28:25):
and as a composer, I'm,I don't really fear it.
Let's, let's look at it that way then.
I'm, I'm a bit of a nerd too, though.
I, and I love tech and share,
- Share me your nerdiness.
What are the things you're nerdy about?
- Oh, let's see. I'm nerdyabout, uh, I write with, I write
with a fountain pen, you know?
Oh, I, yeah,
- Yeah.
- You know, I write with a fountain pen.

(28:46):
Um, I, I collect, I like,
uh, I've always, I, I usedto collect stamps, you know?
Okay. Things like that. I mean, I just,
- You might, you mightbe the first legitimate
stamp collector I've ever met.
That's not something
that people really do butchanymore. Do you still do that?
- Uh, no. I mean, I, I haven'tfor years, you know. Okay.
But that was something I was, I was, uh,

(29:07):
especially when I was younger, you know?
Yeah. But, um, I just, I, I, I like, uh,
I've always been an, anearly adopter, an early, uh,
early adapter when it came to,uh, uh, tech, you know, iPads
and, uh, uh, whatever, newoperating systems coming out
and, uh, musical devices and, and synths

(29:28):
and, and that kind of thing.
So I just,
- I dig it.
I'm a nerd. I who, and,and, and we need more nerds.
Let me be clear. I think,you know, if, if anything,
the lesson I would take away from that is
that be nerdy about somethingand share it with the world.
And you might grow a, a, you know,
a a creative presence online.
What's not to love about that formula,

(29:49):
- .
Yeah. Yeah.
- Well, I I'm gonna be a
little bit selfish here for a moment.
'cause as I mentioned,you know, with my son,
he's three years old,we're thinking about how
to keep him interested in music.
I'd love your thoughts onthis. So, as I mentioned,
you know, we play this gamewith him where he wants
to hear a song becausehe wants to help, uh,
he wants help identifyingthe instruments in the song.
So, Mm-Hmm. ,uh, we started off with,

(30:11):
you know, basic stuff likeRaffi or Sesame Street,
and we very quickly escalated.
So now we listened to, uh,what I say by Ray Charles,
and he's got a particular version of
that song he wants to listen to.
Mm-Hmm. , uh, we do rubber
Bandman by the Spinners.
We do, uh, Papa was a RollingStone by The Temptations.
So first things first, I need some advice.
Uh, what other songsdo you think have like,

(30:32):
great instrumentationpop songs, particularly?
'cause he does tend to sortof gravitate towards that.
What are some great pop songs
with great instrumentation Ishould go listen to with him?
- Oh, you know, a lot ofthose early sixties, like, uh,
even, even like the Motown,the Temptations, um, you know,
my Girl, I mean, you've,you've got bass in there,
you've got, uh, brass section, you've got,

(30:54):
you know, so there's that.
Um, the old, the old Ronettesong from the sixties,
which you might like remember, be My Baby.
- Yeah, that's a great one.- Because you had
that Phil spec, that Wall ofSound production, you know,
so you, he's listening to all that reverb.
There's castanets in there, you know,
drums are real prominent
and, uh, yeah, there's somany instruments in there.

(31:15):
So those, those are two. Okay.
- Yeah, I like that. I likethat. The early sixties.
He does love. Um, uh, theTurtles is another one. Yeah.
Happy together. Happy know.That's a good one. Yeah.
- Eleanor, did you, haveyou listened to that one?
- You know, I haven't done TheBeatles with him for a while.
Eleanor Rigby would be a good one to try.
- Oh, yeah. Eleanor Rigby from The
Beatles, but the Turtle song,

(31:36):
- Eleanor.
Oh, the Turtle song. Eleanor, yeah.
I don't, I'm not familiar with that one.
- Yeah, I think that's thetitle of it, but, uh, okay.
Yeah, you'll have tolook it up afterwards.
It's kind of a, it,
it's a little bit Beatle, actually. Yeah.
- I'll put together a Spotifyplaylist for everybody
so they can, they can pullthese for their kids too,
- But Eleanor Rigby, yeah.
I mean that's, I mean, it's all strings.
Sure. I mean, you know.
- Yeah. His, his strings sectionin there, his grandfather,

(31:58):
my dad, um, was a hugeJerry Lee Lewis fan.
So it's also required that heknow the words to great balls
of fire by the time he's five
or he is gonna have tolive somewhere else.
Mm-Hmm. . I'mkidding. For anybody who's just
listening , um,uh, that's all cool.
Do you, I mean, what inyour mind is, is a good way
to help activate that interest for him?
Right. Because I, I canput, you know, we've got a

(32:19):
God bless my family who keepsgifting us with tambourines.
'cause I think I hurt them years ago,
and now they, they wanna hurt me back.
Um, but, you know, what doyou think are good instruments
for young kids to havein front of them to start
to appreciate and learn music?
Should it be tambourines and recorders,
or is there something maybewe don't tend to think of
that could be fun as a goodentryway into thinking about
their own performance and seeingsome improvement over time?

(32:41):
- Yeah. Um, you know,tambourines recorders are good.
Any kind of percussionlike that, Moroccos. Okay.
Those are fun. Um, let's see.
What about, um, oh,moloca, a little Moloca.
It's got the little Oh, piano keyboard
that you blow into it. That's
- A great- Idea.
Kind of a combination windand, uh, keyboard instrument.

(33:02):
And I use that on my reels
whenever I'm doing the, uh, the,
the polka style of something.
You know, I think becausethat, that's fun to play.
But that, because itdoesn't really, as long
as they can blow intoit and play those notes,
they're learning a piano keyboard. Yeah.
- That's a great idea.- You know? Yeah.
- Um, the Melodica iss notone you tend to think about.
'cause I go there andthen I immediately go
to Weird Al and the accordion.

(33:23):
Oh, yeah. Uh, which, you know,then we're talking about an,
uh, somewhat escalationin the difficulty. Yeah.
- Um, harmonica Mm. Harmonicasomething that Yeah. One to,
- You know, we have been listening
to the Blues Brothers soundtrack, uh,
because of the, the Ray Charles,uh, uh, hit on there along
with, um, when they do theperformance at the end,
and Dan Aykroyd is on the, the harmonica.

(33:43):
That's one I hadn't thoughtabout. That's a great idea.
- Uhhuh andeven World Instruments,
like Kalimba, you know?
Mm-Hmm. ThumpPiano. Uh, yeah. Those are
- These a great suggest.
You're, you're saving mefor Christmas coming up.
This is great. Hey, good, good.
Um, given that we've beentalking a lot about the
performance side ofthings, and I mentioned
earlier sort of music theory.

(34:04):
How do I introduce thebasics of music theory
to him in a way that will stick?
Because I think performance is great,
but how do I help him understand keys?
Or how do I help himunderstand chords in a way that
that will help sort of build those, uh,
foundational blocks for him, do you think?
- I would say probably tryto incorporate it visually.
You know, where do you have a keyboard?

(34:24):
Does he have a keyboardthat he, that he can,
- We do.
We have a little, uh, uh,he's been gifted a little toy
piano that has, I think it'sabout two and a half octave.
So we do actually have some movement on
the keyboard there. Mm-Hmm.
- like, if youstart like showing 'em a, uh,
you can teach 'em C to C
and teach 'em the, you know,the C through B, that octave.
And even if you show 'em, you know,

(34:45):
that C major triad,
you place 'em, right?Mm-Hmm, , yeah,
- A little- Bit.
Yeah. And how you canjust move everything up.
One note that's gonna go upto D Minor and then E minor,
and then F Major, and justsee how those hit his,
strike his ear, you know,
and say, just by keeping yourfingers in the same place
and moving all the way up,you've got all these different
chords that you can hear.

(35:06):
So that visual of it, Ithink w with them doing it.
And then you can startintroducing, you know, uh,
the music staff, middleC and, and through D
and how they pertain to those same notes.
So that, that, that's a good way to start.
- Great. Thank you. Yeah,that's super helpful.

(35:27):
We've talked about yourmusical inspirations,
and we touched very brieflyon your comedic inspirations,
but I, I'd love to dig intothat a little bit more too,
because, you know, whenwe're talking about the kinds
of mashups that you're doingand the silliness that's part
of that, I, I think it'simportant to look at both sides.
So, aside from the ThreeStooges, who else do you sort
of look to for your comedic inspiration?
Who do you watch on a Fridaynight when you need to chuckle?

(35:49):
- Um, you know, I like, uh, I like,
I like the Marx Brothers.
I like, um, I love watchingold, old clips of Victor Borg.
You know, he, he would dothe, uh, the, the piano,
like falling off the piano bench
and just all, all, all thiscomedic stuff, like Victor Borg.
I, I really, really enjoywatching Victor Borg.
And a lot of memories too.

(36:10):
My brother and I, uh, whenwe were younger, we used
to put on these, he woulddo all the narration of,
of like this old silent movie thing,
and I would play the pianowhile he was doing that.
And so, and he'd have me in stitches
because he was so funny,and he'd be laughing,
and I'd be ad-libbing the accompaniment
on as he was doing that.
So kind of like almostcreating our own little

(36:31):
vaudeville sketch.
So all of those things combinedthat, that's, you know,
memories and just watching,watching Victor Borg
and any kind of comedy,especially older comedy, I love,
I love like the old blackand white comedies. Yeah.
- I love that. Yeah. Onequestion I do want to ask
as we start to, you know, sort
of round out the conversationhere, folks who are looking

(36:53):
to become creators, oreven folks who've started,
but they're early in their careers,
it's really easy to get disheartened.
You get the combinationof very small audiences
who don't give you thekind of feedback you,
you might be hoping for or expecting.
You've got the added challengeof doing everything yourself.
You're wearing nine hatssimultaneously, trying to sort of,
you know, make something of this.
Uh, and combine all ofthat with, you know,

(37:14):
you're starting a businessin a lot of ways, right?
If you get good enough whereyou start to have folks
that are interested, youknow, you, you might want to,
you know, build that out into a Patreon,
or you might wanna buildit out into merchandise,
or, you know, you've writtena book, which, you know, maybe
that inspires you asthis continues to build,
to write more books and foldthat into what you're doing.
So I, I guess my, my big questionfor you is, you know, how,

(37:35):
what, what advice would youoffer somebody to help sort
of get past some of those early, uh,
imposter syndrome issues?
Or even just the, the overwhelm
of all the new thingsthey have to think about
building this early onlinebusiness for themselves?
- Well, you know, um,first, find your niche.
Find what you do, find whatyou're passionate about,

(37:58):
and find, find the contentyou create that would act, uh,
that would, uh, accurately reflect you,
you know, and what you're doing.
Because if, if, if you don't,that's just gonna come across,
it's gonna come across in the video if
you're trying to copy somebody.
So I would say that,uh, just be authentic.

(38:18):
Be consistent and avoidthere, there's a fine line
between being consistentso that, uh, the people
who are following you
and watching you are, uh,are, are, are getting content.
And don't overdo it to thepoint that you get burnt out.
So, you know, take those breaksif you have to skip a day
or whatever, but just, you know,
make sure you keep everythingin balance that way.

(38:41):
And, you know, to that, whenI was first starting out,
I made it a point to not watchanything, any, anybody else
who was doing, like, piano orcomedy or anything like that,
because I, I really didn't wantto be influenced, you know?
So I, I, I kind of wentoutta my way to not, uh,

(39:01):
to, to not be, allow myselfto be influenced, you know?
So I, I, I just had had those blinders on,
and anytime I would seesomebody point the piano, I,
I would quickly swipe away
because I just didn't want to do it.
So I would say those threethings, be consistent, be, uh,
authentic, you know?
And, you know, like I said,I, I don't know if what I,

(39:22):
what happened to me would work for others,
but I really was not payingattention to, uh, you know,
what was trending or, or whatwas, what was going on and,
and what was getting thegazillion number of views.
I just kind of did what I did.
And I was fortunate that wayin that it, it went over.
But I think, uh, had Ibeen trying to copy or,

(39:43):
or do other things that maybethat wouldn't have happened,
- I appreciate that the advice there and,
and the, the sort oflogical extension of that is
don't let yourself get boggeddown by other people's ideas
of what's interesting or funny.
Reinforce your own, right.
Not going after other people'scontent and absorbing it

(40:04):
and trying to copy it or tryingto, in, you know, trying to,
you know, amalgamated intoyour own gives you the creative
space to just do what makes you happiest.
Is that what sustains you, right?
Is it, is it the, the,
the happiness you get from publishing?
Is it the responses you get from audience?
Is it some balance of the two?
- It's a balance of thetwo, the most fulfill.
I, I, I love when I hear,Hey, you know what, uh,

(40:27):
I haven't played thepiano for 20 years and,
and you've inspired me to,to start playing again.
So I'm gonna starttaking lessons next week.
You know, when I hearthat, that's like, I'm on,
I'm on a cloud the rest of the day.
You know, that, that's the,that's, that's really what's,
what's fulfilling isjust knowing that, um,

(40:48):
people are enjoying themusic, they're seeing
how much fun it can be,
and they're making amove to start taking, uh,
taking part of it themselves.
That's, I think, what,what gives me the most,
the most, uh, fun.
And I won't lie, it's funwhen, when people laugh,
when I know that people arelaughing or are enjoying it.
That's, that's very gratifying too. Yeah.

(41:08):
- Does your family knowthat you're blowing up
online? Are they familiar?
- They, yeah, they do .- Oh, good.
- Okay. They do, they do.
But, uh, going back a coupleminutes, I just wanna tell you,
you have this uncanny knack,Jason, of taking what I say,
uh, when I ramble a bitwith the answers and,
and turning it into a very,into a bite-size, and,
and summarizing it in intoan easy understanding like of

(41:30):
what I, of what I actually meant.
You've, you've been doing this a
while, I can tell You're very,
- You're very kind.
Um, I, I would say that,that, uh, I, I've spent much
of my life being, uh, theintermediary between a lot
of people whose languagesdon't always match up.
And it's been my job tofind that middle ground
and go, oh, you mean this, this, uh,
it's most of my work in tech.
But that's, that's verykind of you. Thank you.
- Yeah, no, it's, it's,

(41:51):
you're very good, verygood at what you do.
- Uh, yeah. I, I, I holdthat at high regard.
I, i, I wasn't begging
for the compliment, butI'll happily take it. No,
- No. It's sincere
- .
Well, are, are you, I don'tknow if you're a podcast
listener, but, you know, oneof the things I'm always doing
is soliciting feedback, and I,I'm happy to share it with my
admittedly limited audience,but if you have any thoughts
about things I can do to improve

(42:11):
or feedback from me, you know,I'm always happy to hear it.
Uh, I used to do a segmentcalled Ask Jason anything,
and I, I won't put you on the spot,
but if, if at any pointyou have any thoughts,
I'm certainly happy to hear them.
- You know, it's funny,Jason, because, um,
I haven't really been muchof a podcast listener.
It's just something thatI never really thought of.
And, um, uh,
and even family members ofmine said, Hey, you know what,

(42:32):
you should do a podcast or not.
And I always tell them,well, I don't, you know,
I don't really know anything about it
because I don't listen to manyand I don't know what I do.
So that's something I thinkI'm going to, to, to, to, uh,
start listening to and start seeking out.
And I know which one Ican start listening to.
I'm gonna start listening to yours and,
- Oh, oh, oh, oh, my, oh my.
Well, that's, that's unexpected,but thank you. No, yeah.

(42:53):
- And, uh, just looking at,I appreciate that. Yeah.
I, it's something Ithink I need to, to, uh,
make myself aware of and, and listen to.
- I get that it's a, it's an interesting
and different kind of medium.
You know, I, I, my, uh, myfather, uh, has been in, uh,
retail marketing for 40 plus years,
has done a ton of radio and TV work.
And so I grew up knowing whata radio studio felt like,

(43:15):
and the sort of, uh, casual nature
of people standing in a microphone
and really focusing theirperformance on their voice.
Um, for me and for this,adding the extra layer
of video is an interesting complication
because, you know, forme, how do you make two,
two talking heads look interesting,
is a kind of fun challenge.
Um, and is it worth trying toput a lot of effort into it,
or is that kind of justartistic incrementalism, right?

(43:37):
Trying to figure out if there's,if I'm just doing something
in the edit that makes me happy.
Mm-Hmm. ,do you have a sense of
what you would, if you hada podcast, like, do you know
what you would even want to talk about?
Would it be a continuation of
what you're doing on short form content,
or would you want to take it a co uh,
a totally different direction?
- Yeah. See that, that's, that's
what I'm, what I'm puzzled with.
I don't know if it wouldbe like, uh, you know,

(43:57):
here's new music thatI've written, you know,
or if it would be a longerversion of, you know,
some piano humor andmashups, you know, like the,
the weekly mashup or something like that,
where I would maybe do itin real time or something.
So, um, yeah, I'm, I'm kind of puzzled
and, and reaching on that.
So, uh, uh, I'm opento suggestions on that.
Should I ever, should

(44:18):
- I ever try.
I, I mean, if you pursue it,the one thing I would say
that could be a lot of fun,you get to score it yourself.
Uh, I have to rely on, on, uh, you know,
subscription platforms forthe, the, the, you know,
the opening and ending music,but you could do the scoring
and write your own intro music,
which I think actually soundslike a great starting place.
You know, what's the tone of the
conversations you want to have?
Um, yeah, I, I, I think theone thing I would offer,

(44:40):
just having done this, uh,for a little while now,
I think this is episode 17
or 18, I can't recalloff the top of my head.
Um, uh, the first 10 episodesare just pure learning,
and it's really okay ifthey're not up to snuff.
And the second 10 episodes are, figure out
how to narrow in on your niche.
And I, that's sort of whereI'm at with it right now.
Um, you know, really focusingmy conversation on folks in

(45:02):
the, uh, earlier part ofthe creator space, you know,
looking at folks thatare really building value
for themselves, uh,within the creator economy
as well as for others, right?
So not just creators,
but also folks that arebuilding platforms and tools.
Um, it's taken me a while toget there, so if you can start
with a niche that's very narrow and
and targeted, I, I think you'll be a
step above more than anything else.

(45:22):
Uh, yeah, some, well,somebody who started,
I think it's very clear.
I just like talking, andthat's kind of where I started.
Um, you know, if you cannarrow in on something earlier,
you'll skip some of those steps, uh,
that I think are pitfallsfor a lot of people
where they get disappointedthat, you know,
they're not suddenly at thetop of the Apple Podcast list.
- Right. Uh, you know, that's,

(45:43):
uh, it's all very interesting.
Like I said, that wouldbe something I would've
to learn pretty much fromthe ground up, you know,
the tech part of it, uh, howit's hosted and, you know,
and there that, and then,and then the content
after that and what I would do with it.
So, um,
- Well, I can assure you,
there are a number of great platforms.
You can pay obsceneamounts of money for them
to do most of that for you.
If you really feel like it,

(46:03):
I'm sure I wouldn'trecommend it, but you could.
- Right. But I do, like you said, I,
I can at least keep the musicin house so I, I can, which
- I gotta tell you, it saves
you a couple hundred bucks a year.
Mm-Hmm. . I mean,that's not, that's not small.
So you may know Hank and John Green.
This is a question I ask of everybody.
Hank and John Green are writers.
They produce the channel of Vlog Brothers,
and I think it was Hank Greenwho recently talked about how,

(46:25):
uh, in his work, he realizesthat, that the conversations
that he's having thatis to say the channels
that he's producing, theyhave to end eventually,
whether he chooses to or not.
Mm-Hmm. your grandfather.
You, you know, maybe thinkingabout your own legacy,
both creatively and,
and personally, when you, youknow, when you look back at
what you've produced, whatdo you want your family

(46:45):
to remember the most aboutyour creative journey,
and what do you want yourcontributions to have been
for other creators?
- I think what I've alwaysbeen trying to get across is
that music is fun and,
and it's more fun when you
take it out of the, uh, containerthat we tend to keep it in

(47:08):
and just expand on it,you know, um, taking,
letting your imagination runwild with it, you know, uh,
it's okay to take Beethoven andblend it with, uh, whatever,
or to, to do this to it,
and that there's a real enjoyment
that comes out of just lettingyour imagination go with it.

(47:31):
You know, it's kind of likethe old, when people would say,
you know, in any art, youknow, learn what the rules are
so you can break them, you know,
and I don't wanna, I don'twant to, that sounds almost
rebellious and I don'twant to, I don't wanna,
uh, you know, go that far.
But I promoted music asbeing fun and enjoyable
and something everybody, Ithink has an innate desire to,

(47:54):
uh, to do.
And it's something, if they can,
that they should enjoy itin any form that they can.
- What a perfect note. No punintended to end on .
Lauren, thank you so much for the time.
You see, I get my dad jokestoo, don't you worry. Yeah.
- Hey, that's right. And I'mhere for the dad jokes too, so
- I appreciate it, Lauren.
Um, what, let me, let me throwto you for one last time.

(48:15):
Is there anything specific orspecial you want to promote
or make sure people are aware of
or sensitive to coming up for you?
- Uh, I have a new singlecoming out, uh, towards the end
of the month and I'll havemore details on it when it gets
closer, but keep an eye on that
because it will be onall the streaming sites
and available for playlisting.

(48:36):
- Perfect. Love that.
Well Lauren, thank youso much for the time.
Uh, I hope we get to have you again
soon and we can chat more.
I'm, uh, there's so many otherthings I wanna make sure we
keep talking about because Ithink these are not the only
moments of this conversation.
These are gonna be evolvingfor a long time. So yeah.
Hopefully we'll have you back again soon.
- That would be great. I'd love it.
- Yeah. Awesome. Thanks so much.
- Thank you Jason.