On Feb 19, 1774, Mercy Otis Warren was tending to her family when she received a call from the future…
Mercy was a writer and poet that found a way to use her gifts to further the cause of liberty. In this episode, she’ll talk about the meetings in her home that eventually played a role in uniting the colonies. She’ll also discuss the anonymously published play she wrote that created a safe way for the citizens of Boston to communicate about the injustices and freedoms that were slowly being taken from the colonists.
Start the episode now to join the conversation.
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In Michele’s interpretation of Mercy Otis Warren, she masterfully captures the essence of this remarkable woman. Michele breathes life into Warren's intellectual prowess, and unwavering commitment to the ideals of liberty and justice. Her portrayal not only honors Warren's legacy, but also sheds light on the significant contributions of women in shaping the course of history. Learn more about Michele Gabrielson’s work or contact her at:
Michele's Instagram: @the_revolutionary_classroom
email: celebratemercyotiswarren@gmail.com
website: celebratemercyotiswarren.org
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:28):
I'm, Tony Dean.
And today we'll be calling historyto speak with mercy Otis Warren.
She'll be answering our call onFebruary 19th, 1774 at the age of 45.
At this time in history, the cityof Boston is on edge waiting for the
English response to the Boston tea party.
That happened two months prior.
(00:48):
Rabble-rousers like Samuel Adamsand powerful men that we now call
founding fathers have become tiredof parliament, their taxes, and their
never ending assault on Liberty.
The whole area is a powder keg, and aslow burning fuse has already been lit.
In the middle of the chaos was theWarren home that served as a meeting
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place for the sons of Liberty.
And those that would laterfuel the American revolution.
Her husband, James was a strong advocatefor Liberty, but at this time a woman's
place was in the home, not in politics.
Yet mercy was educated, a prolificwriter and a poet with ideas to
further the cause of freedom.
(01:30):
As a woman though.
She was first committed to herchildren, her husband, and our God.
If she were to address the problem asmen did by pounding their fists, .. Merci
could have ruined her family's reputation.
So instead she used her powerfulwords to assault these injustices
by anonymously writing poems andeventually a play called the Adulator.
(01:51):
Key members of English governmentwere written into the play as
characters, but with differentnames, once it was published in the
newspaper, it was well-received.
And in a way, functioned as a code,allowing citizens to discuss their
grievances without having to do itopenly and risk their own freedom.
It took tremendous courage to expressherself at this time when it was not
(02:16):
acceptable to do so Yet the worldwould be a very different place.
If those that could do good, hadwaited until they were allowed
to ladies and gentlemen, fellowhistory, lovers, and everyone who
loves the smell of a good book.
I give you mercy Otis Warren.
Hello,
is that you, Mrs.
Warren?
Sir I can hear the voice of the speaker,but I know not where the sound comes from.
(02:40):
Can you, do you care
to show yourself?
I won't be able to showmyself, unfortunately, but
I will introduce myself.
My name is Tony Dean, and I'mtalking to you actually from
the future, in the 21st century.
That device in front of you, that'swhere the sound's coming from.
And what that is it's called a smartphone.
It allows us to speak as if we weresitting in the same room, just face
(03:02):
to face talking with one another.
And it also allows me to sharea record of our conversation
with people around the world.
And I was hoping that I could ask yousome questions today, but before I do, I
understand this is a strange introduction.
Can I answer any questions, any otherquestions that you might have first?
Oh, good day to you, Mr.
Dean.
I trust that you are well.
(03:23):
I must admit that this methodof correspondence is a little
disorienting, as you can imagine.
Yes.
If we were writing a correspondence,you see, you cannot see my face
and I would be unable to see yours.
However, we may hold a discussionas if you were right in front of me.
And this is essentially whatis happening now, is it not?
That is correct.
In our time, we can do this from.
(03:45):
Anywhere, and so you can have a personthat's a hundred miles from you and
just have a conversation like this Likethey were right there, and then you
could stop and have a conversation withsomebody that's across world the same way
That is remarkable.
I must admit, oftentimes in mycorrespondence, I wish I would be
able to hear the voice of my belovedfamily member or my dear friends.
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So this is quite remarkable.
. Try to imagine in your time with allthis wonderful work that you have
written and try to imagine in yourtime that you were able to write that.
And instead of having to go throughthe process of printing it, you
could send it to every person inthe entire world in the same day.
I mean, that is, that'swhat the future looks like.
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Now, you can't tell anybody this.
It's a secret.
They gotta find out on their own.
But that, it sounds amazing, doesn't it?
Now, Mr.
Dean, you're referencing my writings.
You have read my personal correspondence?
I have read some of what you've written,and developed an understanding of,
what you were trying to accomplish,because , right now you're living
in very difficult times, aren't you?
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It is very
troubling.
I, I have to have your assurancethat no one from my time will
know of this conversation.
Yes, that is correct.
We're hundreds of years down the road.
And so, , people are going to be able toread the things that you have written.
The history is well documented.
We already know what happens next.
The reason that I'm callingyou is not to find any secrets.
(05:11):
But really, just to get yourperspective on what happened, what
you were trying to accomplish.
You're a hero in our time.
You're a person that women look up to
they look up to you and they say, ifI could find the courage to be like
that, I could make a difference.
And so, Your enemies will neverhear this, and nobody in your time
will hear this, but the people thatwill hear this are the people that
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are looking for inspiration becausethey see what you did and said,
maybe I could be better than I am.
Sure, that gives me great comfort.
It is very important to Mr.
Warren and myself, and my friendsand my family, and the safety of all
involved, that my name is Not put tothese works that you're referencing from.
(05:54):
. Mr.
Dean, if I could please perhapsask you a question that might
be a little self indulgent.
You mentioned my writing, but those inmy inner circle and my friends and my
companions know that my poetry is thework that I have been putting my name to.
However how should I say?
Like more delicate worksof a political nature.
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I am not yet allowing myname to be associated with.
Is it possible by your time in thefuture, people do know it is my hand
that has written these political works?
Absolutely.
I know that it is not common inyour time for women to assign
their name to something, especially
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that would be controversial.
And, yes the things that you havewritten now , that have to do
with the the possibility of somesort of revolution or, standing up
against, what England is doing.
Yes, we absolutely know about those works.
In fact, there have been some worksin our time that have been attributed
to you That the scholars have lookedback and said no, no, no, no, that
(06:58):
wasn't her cause she'd never say that.
But yeah, I think people arepretty clear on what you've
written and what you have not.
That
is remarkable.
Is it possible that in thefuture, women are printing and
publishing under their own names?
It is possible.
In fact, it is happening for sure.
In fact, not only are womenpublishing and doing all those
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things, women run businesses.
Women hold the same positions as as men.
we were very close tohaving a woman president.
And in other countries around theworld, there have been women that
have been president and are right now.
So, yes.
Women play a different role.
Partially because of some ofthe things that you've done.
In our time, it's hard to even imaginethe challenges you would have had,
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because, , you couldn't just go outand publish something in your name.
I'm guessing there wouldbe some repercussion.
Well, What would happen if you were towrite something , against England in
your name, and they found out it wasyou, what would the consequences be?
There, there are laws andprotections for the press.
One might hearken back to the Zengertrial in New York city in the 1730s.
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However.
You must remember that women's fearis one not to be found in politics.
It is the duty of the womanto, to run the household, to
be a dutiful wife and mother.
And I can't imagine the damage thatcould be caused if it was found
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that a woman was making her voicesknown in a political context.
Does that make sense?
It makes sense, but it's veryconfusing because it appears
that's exactly what you did.
You were trying to juggleboth of those, weren't you?
My role first and foremostis to be a wife and a mother.
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I have had the incredible goodfortune of having an education and
taking up a more masculine approachto my thoughts because of the men who
have championed education around me.
I frequently struggle with myrole as a a writer and what
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opinions I should be voicing.
And again, most of those timesthat is done within the comfort
of my own home and surrounded bythose that I love and I trust.
Now that is surprising.
This is not what I expected you to sayat all, because I didn't expect that this
would be a struggle for you to have, asyou say, this masculine approach to your
(09:33):
writing or your role in, in this fightthat you appear to be working towards.
, this is something that you struggled with.
This is something that you wereuncomfortable with or even fearful of.
Very much so.
What would it be to reflect upon Mysex my station, my family and to put
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my husband's good reputation at riskand of course, ultimately the cause for
which so many of us are fighting for.
There's a great risk to be hadif people had found out what
works have come from my pen.
Now that you're saying this, there'ssomething, there's a quote that I
(10:14):
read, and I don't know if you wrotethis, or just somebody said this,
you strongly encouraged womenwriters to be cheerful in their
performance of their household duties?
Absolutely.
Tell me what you're thinking about that,because I have a different picture of you.
I have, I see you out here like,Almost like a Sam Adams character,
(10:34):
where you're stirring things up,
oh, not like Mr.
Adams, sir.
Mr.
Adams has the luxury of his station.
And being a male to be able to, as yousay, stir things up no, it is absolutely
the job of the wife to, to run thehousehold and to make sure that she
is raising her children in accordancewith the laws of God and nature.
(11:00):
Okay, that makes sense.
So, if that's the case, how do youend up in the, involved in the middle
of what is happening right now?
Because my understanding is, I think theyear is 1774, if I've got that right.
It is.
It is.
And the ties between England and And thecolonies are not very good, there are
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lots of problems, and aren't you havingmeetings at your house where Sam Adams
and all these people are meeting at yourhome talking about liberty and revolution?
Is that not happening atyour home, in front of you?
Mr.
Warren and I have heard ourhome called One Liberty Square.
That is the nickname that has beengiven to our home in Plymouth.
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Yes, we are hosting many guests at timesthey like to be called committees of
correspondence where we are entertainingfriends and like minded individuals and
many conversations are to be had aboutthese What violations of English rights
are being committed by our government?
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And what steps need to be taken?
In order to secure those rightsand to restore balance in,
particularly Massachusetts Bay.
Our friends who gather in our parlorthere are many discussions to be had
about current events and about what's thelatest acts from Parliament are saying.
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And oftentimes, yes, I am invitedto take part in these conversations.
And it is quite liberating for awoman to be able to speak her mind
freely and to share her opinionswith those that she reflects.
So tell me, at these committees ofcorrespondence, I understand this was a
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this seems like it was a very significantmeeting in relation to what happens next.
I listed some names.
What people are showingup at these events?
, I listed some of them, but are there more?
Yes, so Mr.
Adams is a frequentvisitor and through Mr.
Adams I have met hisdelightful wife, Abigail, Mrs.
Adams.
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We have formed a closepartnership, she and I, and we
write frequently to each other.
But other names that you might notknow so well of are local individuals
from town, from Plymouth and elsewhere.
We have friends that come fromBarnstable, we have friends that come
from Boston, and of course Braintree,where the Addamses are located.
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But out of good respect for myfriends I shall not be naming any more
names than you currently know, sir.
But is that what ishappening at these events?
Are we talking about revolution?
Are we talking aboutnegotiating with the English?
What are your hopes?
Is there a possibility of reconciliation?
(13:45):
Sir, you mentioned this word revolution.
There are some radicals that arecalling for a complete break.
However, it is far too early.
You might recall just, what was about twomonths ago December of the last year, that
individuals in Boston decided to take itupon themselves and to make a very public
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statement Destroying 342 chests of tea bydumping them overboard into Boston Harbor.
This is a remark againstParliament's repeated acts and
abuses against the colonies.
And there are some individuals whowould be calling for our King, our
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Lord Sovereign, to be able to take agreater stand, but we have to remind
ourselves that this is Parliamentand Parliament's actions that have
led us to this place currently.
So for somebody that might notunderstand what you're talking
about, what would be the differencebetween king and parliament?
Are you saying one is toblame and not the other?
You see that parliament andking are two separate entities.
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We have our government in England.
We also have our government herein the colonies which has also
seemed to have quite lost itsway for a number of years now.
Our king Does not pass the acts andthe taxes that Parliament insists on.
So if one were to bring their judgment,it would be against Parliament.
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However, here in Massachusettsmuch of our frustration is aimed
towards our own local governor.
And our own colonial assembly.
There have been over the past few yearschanges, for example, of the way that
our governor and even our courts arepaid, which would have been previously
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determined by our colonial assemblies.
And that was used as.
A measure of a check against the abuseof power, for example, once that had
been violated and we start to see otheracts such as the dreaded Stamp Act of 65.
We see the Townsend Acts of 67.
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And here we are in the year 1774, and manypeople are fearful of what step Parliament
is going to take next in retaliationfor the destruction of the Tea.
So you see, this has been severalyears of people here in the colonies,
specifically in Massachusetts Bay,wondering when will the violation of our
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rights as English men and women cease.
And there does not seem to be an end in
sight.
When you say people are fearful,
what are they fearful of?
Are they fearful that, we've got the StampAct, and we've got the Townsend Act, and
now they're going to come out with theBoot and Leather Act, and they're just
going to be coming up with new ideas thatto tax you, and then you guys fight it
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back, or are you thinking bigger things?
Like, what do you see happening next?
I think the histories of antiquityhave shown us that relatively
peaceful spans of time undermen's control do not seem to last.
Now, the relative peaceful years of myyouth, I think seem to be an anomaly but
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One of the books, that I had read as achild while studying the history of the
world, Raleigh, and knowing that I cancombine what I've learned from these books
and what I've learned from the classics Iuse that word fearful because I do believe
that we are headed, oh, almost headfirstinto a period of history where, you use
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the term revolutionary that is goingto be Changing the way that governments
and men interact with each other.
Are you familiar with thephilosopher Locke, for example?
I am somewhat, but please continue.
So,
my dear brother, Jemmy and I wouldsit for hours talking about Mr.
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Locke's concepts on natural libertiesand what agreements the people and
the government must have in order forsociety to function, , to proceed.
Mr.
Dean, tell me in your own mind, whatresponsibilities and duties does the
government have to its people, or
does it?
In our time I think people would saythat government's responsibility,
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at least the responsibility thatthey act on, would be to spend money
, without any intelligent thought.
To make poor decisions, and toput politicians in front of us
that we don't want to vote for.
I think that's what most people wouldsay, but I think what's supposed
to happen is, is I think governmentis supposed to , work together to
protect the mass, and then also todo things to make the individual
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citizen's life better in some way.
I agree.
I believe that as these philosophersfrom Europe are stating, that
there is a right for the governmentand a duty and an obligation to
Respect the wishes of the people.
We can hearken back to Magna Carta.
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to the English Bill of Rights wherethere is a separation and that
the king, the crown does not haveabsolute power over the people.
Yet this is what we are seeing happen.
Almost in every single act that has beenpassed by Parliament against her colonies.
And instead of the men and womenliving here in the colonies being
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treated , as loyal and dutiful subjectsof the king we're being treated as
individuals that should be controlled.
And so in essence, Mr.
Dean, what we're seeing happenhere is a breakdown of the
rights of English men and women.
And so, yes, I am fearful for the future.
We are awaiting word of if there is to beretaliation from our government against
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the destruction of the teach some folkshave said that they are speculating
that , more troops will be sent.
Some are speculating that even ourharbor, our ports could be closed down.
And I can't think of more devastatingimpacts on economy and life and
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livelihood than if something like thatwere to happen it's all together quite
distressing.
So when you say more troops, howmany troops are there right now?
, It is not necessarily the number, sir.
It is the idea that troops shouldnot be quartered or stationed in
a town unless it's a time of war.
(20:43):
I know of no war.
So again, we must ask whythese repeated abuses.
It sounds like there's a war againsttea right now, and the tea is losing.
You see, we have been boycottingtea for several years now,
as well as other imports.
Dear friends of mine who sharewe should say common sentiment
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against our government's policiescurrently have decided that, yes
we should not be partaking in teaor importing certain goods and you
shall see this being called out in inpoetry, in pamphlets, in newspapers,
Speaking of the tea, by theway, did the colonists do that?
Did Indians do that?
(21:26):
Who threw the tea into the bay?
Sir, I am not at liberty to say.
I will tell you, I am currentlyworking on a publication, a play.
That will allude to thelatest unhappy acts in Boston.
But yeah, there are individualswho are claiming responsibility,
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but again, not publicly.
Who are the individuals that are claimingresponsibility, but not publicly?
I'm sure you are familiar with agroup called the Sons of Liberty.
I am, very much so.
Yes,
so members of the Sons of Liberty havedecided to take it upon themselves
to make a political statement.
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Now, I'll remind you, good sir, therewere other items that were aboard those
three ships that were not touched theonly Items to be destroyed with tea and
this was in a direct connection to ourlatest act by parliament It was directly
a political protest and nothing more Youwill see some individuals that tried to
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spin it as wanton destruction of propertybut When you look at a specific item that
was targeted, it was T in direct response.
And I have to remind you as well,sir, there were multiple meetings
and there were multiple letterssent back and forth asking that
this T was not going to be unloaded.
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are you saying that there wascorrespondence with Parliament or the
King, or who were you correspondingwith saying that we're not going to
unload the tea, and were you suggestingthat they return the tea to England?
So, several times in an opendiscussion to discuss that the tea
should not be unloaded from the ships.
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These decisions are part of adiscourse that our government is used
to and has the right to engage in.
And so when these conversations take placeand when there is correspondence that
is being published in our newspapers andindividuals are talking and discussing
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about what the fate of the tea shouldbe one would argue that ample time
and opportunity was given before.
Such an act was undertaken.
So they had plenty of warning.
And was some of this correspondencebetween Governor Hutchinson and
the people of Massachusetts?
Governor Hutchinson, thisname that you bring up.
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Did I touch his nerve?
And is a name that I wouldrather not spend time discussing.
You see, Mr.
Hutchinson and my family have had quitea history of unpleasant connections.
Much of it stems back from My fatherbeing passed over in positions
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of government in favor of Mr.
Hutchinson and, of course, my dearelder brother, Jemmy writing and
issuing some Statements that Mr.
Hutchinson did not agree with andcurrently does not agree with Mr.
Hutchinson has made several decisionsin his own time as governor that
(24:48):
has not benefited him personally.
He has written letters abroad that hadbeen published in her own newspaper that
show him to be an enemy of the people ofMassachusetts, no matter what he says.
And you will see that in some of mypolitical writing, specifically some
(25:08):
of my plays that , his character isrevealed to be just as it is, which
is not favorable in many of the eyesof people here in Massachusetts.
For those that may not be students ofhistory or may not know exactly what Mr.
Hutchinson's role was , you explain thathe's doing terrible things and he's not
(25:31):
really, thinking about the the colonies,which is his job, but what is his role?
What is, who is he?
What, explain who he is.
Mr.
Hutchinson's role in governmentas governor is to be the head of
government here in Massachusetts,but also to be listening to his
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cabinet to the colonial assembly.
And.
Instead, Mr.
Hutchinson has made several decisionsas his time as governor that has gone
against what we feel is within the bestinterest of the Massachusetts people.
, it seems like you obviously havesome, have contempt for him, and it
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seems that he has a very difficultjob, because what the colonists
want, and what parliament and theking want, , They're very different.
I , my understanding is the king wouldjust like you to send all their money
in the form of taxes and then they'dbe happy and then you'd like to keep
all your money and send them none.
(26:32):
And so he's trying to bein between the two of you.
That seems like a really hardjob because it doesn't seem
like there's a right answer.
Is his job impossibleor is he a scoundrel?
These are challenging questions.
It perhaps might be a little.
helpful if I was to give you a moreof a history on the background between
my family and the Hutchinson's.
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I mentioned my father lost outon a position in government.
It was an unexpected loss.
, it was thought he was going to wina vote for a place on the governor's
council, which is in Massachusetts.
And so that's what we're goingto do since we have an upper
chamber in our legislature.
And this is in the Houseof Representatives, and
it was an unexpected loss.
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Hutchinson who is then LieutenantGovernor was blamed for influencing
members to vote against my fatherafter a few years had passed Mr.
Hutchinson again won a positionof superior court chief
justice instead of my father.
And I am fully aware of how it soundsas this might be a personal vendetta,
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but when you look at the situationin a grander scheme, it is more about
a consolidation of power because Mr.
Hutchinson Being a member ofthe Governor's Council is also
related by marriage to the Oliverfamily . And the Oliver family in
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here in Massachusetts, they holdseveral key government positions.
So, again, I am fully aware that thissounds as this might be a family matter,
however, when you apply it to a granderaudience, you can see how Members of
the government in Massachusetts when itis so closely connected by family and
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by blood, the consolidation of powertends to become rather unsettling.
And again, it's all about the preservationof liberties of individuals here.
He does have a difficult job.
However, , I think a greater man wouldunderstand the implications of his
position.
(28:40):
I I don't disagree with you at all.
I mean, we're obviously aware ofWhat he did and there's no question.
He was not the right guy for that jobfor sure because he just wasn't able.
It was a difficult job, but hewasn't able to juggle both duties
in my opinion, and so I guess whatI wanted to ask you about him.
(29:01):
You were talking about letters thatwere released secret letters, and
they were published in the papers.
Did you have a role in that?
Oh,
no, sir.
No.
These are private letters and while theyhad been written several years earlier,
this is a new scandal to befall Mr.
Hutchinson and Mr.
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Oliver when these letters were publishedand again, none of us are quite certain
how these letters were to be found.
However, what we do know is that theseletters are Telling us very much about
the content and the character of Mr.
Hutchinson.
And it is quite unsettling theimplications of what he would
(29:46):
say about his own people of
Massachusetts.
Do you recall the content of any of them?
Oh, yes.
They're being published in the newspapers.
The implication of these letters are.
That we are, as a people arealarmed that our governor and our
(30:06):
lieutenant governor would call forthe abridgment of our rights and
that there are certain radicals.
in Massachusetts specifically.
And I know that this is specificallyrelating to my brother, Jemmy who deserved
to suffer the fullest consequences
(30:26):
of the law.
Wow.
You're saying Jemmy, is that G E M Y?
Is that how you're saying it though?
Yes.
Jemmy is the name that I callmy eldest brother James Otis.
I completely understand whyyou're calling your brother Jemmy.
I understand that crystal clear.
(30:47):
Because there's a lotof Jameses in your life.
Yeah.
I mean, what's your brother'sactual name is James, right?
And your dad?
And your husband, right?
Yes, sir.
Do you have a child's name, James?
Yes, sir.
Now, for somebody that is so creativein thought, I'm very surprised
(31:09):
that your child's name was James.
Everybody's name is James.
How do you keep them separated?
Sir, for my eldest son to have thename of not only his father, but also
his grandfather and one of the mostimportant people in my life, my eldest
brother it is a badge of honor, sir.
(31:30):
Not a lack of creativity,
as you would say.
That was an unfair low blow, wasn't it?
So, we're talking aboutHutchinson right now.
And my understanding is that youwanted to shine a light on what he was
doing and his faults in the hope thatI don't know, maybe somebody would
do something different or better.
And so there was a play , thatwas a significant piece of
(31:50):
literature at that time.
And we know about it now.
You can get copies of it now.
. It is actually quite liberating tobe able to talk about this freely.
. the publication, the MassachusettsSpy, are you familiar with it?
It is Mr.
Thomas paper he ran an advertisement fora performance of a play, The Adulator,
(32:11):
at the Grand Parade in Upper Serbia.
And in his publication It wascertainly not the first page.
It was well into his paper.
I believe on page three or so.
He took nearly half a page to listthe characters and a couple of
scenes from the play, and , it causedquite a stir, as you can imagine.
(32:33):
Now, this is not going to be anactual play however, this is going
to be, Released in several parts.
And once it was published inthe newspapers, then it was able
to be printed into a pamphlet.
But the character Rapacio.
Who is Hutchinson is the individual whois trying to bask in the glory of his
(33:00):
scheme that he was going to be quenchingthe generous flame, the ardent love
of liberty in Serbia's freeborn son.
And as, The title that I chosethe Agilator, he must seek out the
agilating tongues of his inner circleto relieve his phantom conscience.
I'm quite proud of this publication.
(33:22):
Many people were talking about itand it was really my first step into,
again, that masculine realm of politics.
That is why I feel now, here we are, andI am about a week, I believe, a week out
from giving my first draft to Misfier'sEads and Gill of the Boston Gazette
(33:47):
to print my latest poem, which is TheSquabble of the Sea Nymphs, which is a,
an account of the destruction of the tea.
And of course I have Individualsin my life that are championing
my writing and encouraging me tocontinue to put my pen to paper.
Fortunately, we don't have to figureout who those champions are because
(34:10):
they're all the James in your
life.
They are all the James's in my life.
Did you say that?
That is called the squabble of the sea
nymphs.
It is, yes.
Or the sacrifice of the Tuscaroros.
It is a fictional account.
But I shall give you a little a sample.
The heroes of the Tuscaroro tribe whoscorned alike a feather or a bribe,
(34:31):
in honor rang it and waited freedom'snod to make an offering to watery God.
So essentially what we have here are theindividuals, the sea nymphs who are Going
to be partaking in this tea and the thesubsequent refusal of the Tuscaroros to do
so.
If there's one thing we knowabout the history of sea
(34:52):
nymphs, they love English tea.
They just love it.
They can't drink enough of it, right?
Well, They should be very happy withthe events of the last month or so
This particular Idea camefrom my dear friends.
Mr.
Adams Who had written to mr.
Warren and had I was asked if I wouldtake pen to paper and would be able
(35:17):
to write a poem in tribute of theSons of Liberty, and I did not think
myself equal to the task asked of me,but my husband reassured me that Mr.
Adams would not have just askedanyone to complete a task such as
this, and so that I should take itas encouragement and as a privilege.
(35:39):
Especially from John Adams.
Talk about a man who could spin a taleor put it on paper just as easily.
That guy can write.
For him to ask you to writeanything, , that would be an honor.
Regardless of if you were a man orhe was a man or whoever was a man
or woman wouldn't make a difference.
Of Mr.
Adams, I know him as nothing butencouraging and forward thinking
(36:02):
and thoughtful and pointed.
And I believe that it is the lastquality that most individuals might
take issue with, his pointedness.
He is, Not one to sprinkle seeds offlowers amongst his garden of words.
If Mr.
Adams has an opinion hewill certainly vocalize it.
But it also means that you know where Mr.
(36:23):
Adams stands on topics at hand,and there is no guesswork.
There's no wonderingabout what his words mean.
And I believe that individualswho are used to speaking in a more
gentle and delicate manner in a waythat is more delicate to society's
ears, that they take issue with Mr.
Adams.
I can't imagine a person having aconversation with him and then John Adams
(36:48):
walks away and that person's sitting therethinking, I wonder what he was getting at.
I'm not sure what he meant.
That is probably something thathas never happened even one time
in his life, even in his own house.
Even in his own house,and my dear friend, Mrs.
Adams, Abigail, and I oftentimes remark onthe joys and the challenges of marriage.
(37:12):
What happens when our husbandsvoice opinions that perhaps
we must have to soften?
I believe that Mr.
Adams's opponents stoop to levelsof insult rather than try to use
their own pointed way of speakingwith him, which he very much
appreciates, and which is why Mrs.
Adams is, oh, his equal in every
(37:33):
regard.
You have a really goodrelationship with her, don't you,
we do.
Mrs.
Adams and I, are onlyrecent acquaintances.
Mrs.
Adams loves to read, and soshe and I share that passion.
And within our circle of friendsQuite often joke and remark on Mrs.
(37:53):
Adams's book club for we will oftentimesread and then in our correspondence,
right about what we think about the booksand our own thoughts and how we would.
Most likely improve theworks of literature.
It is quite amusing, ourcorrespondence with one another.
Do you, are there female writers in yourtime that do publish under their name?
(38:15):
Are there any?
Oh, there are.
Again, most of this is going to be poetry.
Or works for the gentler sex.
There is a publication that is printedin London called the Ladies Magazine.
And in these publications, oftentimesyou'll have short stories, and you will
have music, and you will have recipes,and you will have poetical works.
(38:40):
And of course, foreign and domesticnews from abroad and oftentimes,
we will be reading works that arewritten by women, for women, in our
own colony of Massachusetts, therehave been women who have written.
There is , currently , a woman whois writing and is publishing , and
(39:01):
would you believe she is anenslaved woman in Boston?
Her name is Mrs.
Wheatley.
And though I have not hadthe chance to meet Mrs.
Wheatley her works arebeing published under her
own name.
And she's an enslaved woman.
She is.
I love books.
And I hear you talking I love reading.
(39:23):
And I love as I hearyou talking about Mrs.
Adams and you being inAbigail Adams book club.
That sounds like because she isspirited in a different way than
John Adams is, way that is a littleeasier to swallow, so to speak.
, is that where, your education started?
I mean, your ability to write the wayyou do, your ability to engage in these
(39:47):
political discussions that ordinarily,as you say, would be considered,
you know, Did that come from books?
Did you have some formal education?
, It is said that there are certain smells that can bring instant comfort
or trigger the most unpleasant memories.
Do you know what I speak of?
I think I do, yes.
(40:08):
How scent can bring comfort.
For me, it's the scent ofpaper and leather and ink.
There is no greater joy than ifI was to walk into a bookstore or
a print shop or a library and sitin silence with a book in my hand.
And it has been books that are myconstant companion over the years.
(40:28):
During James absence.
The letters again I mentionedin correspondence to my
dear friends and family.
It's paper and it's the quill.
My dear husband often timesrefers to me as the scribbler.
That's one of his termsof affection for me.
At our home in Plymouth, there is alittle desk in front of a window in
(40:50):
the upstairs of our house where Ifrequently enjoy sitting and just casting
my gaze out the window and writing.
And you might think I'm a silly womanfor saying so, but I believe there's
something cathartic in putting wordsfrom the mind down onto paper and then
releasing those words wild into the world.
(41:11):
my earliest years, books and discourseabout books have brought me joy.
My brother, Jemmy, and my brotherJoseph as is custom, was given the
privilege of studying in tutelageunder Reverend Russell, who happens
(41:33):
to be our uncle in Barnstable.
And much of this push foreducation came from my father.
You see, my father I was not a learned man, and I believe that this was insecurity
that he held on to for most of his life,and he was very insistent upon Jemmy
and Joseph receiving a formal education.
(41:57):
Now Joseph did not take to booksand learning the way that Jemmy
did, and I'm sure at some pointconcerning to my father and Joseph
went to work in my father's store.
It is because of Joseph's reluctance tosit and to learn that I believe I was
(42:21):
given the opportunity to sit in on mybrother's lessons with Reverend Russell.
We walked into Reverend Russell's study.
Oh, Mr.
Dean, I would estimate that therewere a hundred books in that study.
Okay.
And so again, that smell really bringsme back to my childhood and I had
(42:42):
begged and begged Papa that I couldfit in on these lessons and once
Joseph vacated his studies, I wouldsit in awe and listen to how my brother
would speak with Reverend Russellabout the topics that were at hand.
We'd be reading classics and histories.
The translations of Virgil and Homer Iwasn't allowed to learn Latin and Greek
(43:06):
but I could listen in and I would listento the sermons from Reverend Russell.
I'd be able to write and I believe thisis where really my love for the classics
and for any allusions that I can maketo antiquity in my writing comes from.
I'm sorry I, I, my memories aretaking me to a place that you must
(43:32):
just think I'm, I'm so silly for.
I, I apologize.
I do not think that at all.
I literally am like sitting on the edgeof my seat on every word that you're
saying because I think that what ittakes for somebody in your time to, To
rise to this level is extraordinary.
I mean, it's, you just described to methat your brother is sitting there in
(43:54):
class and you're waiting for him to getdone with his lesson so that you can
pick up the scraps, so to speak, likeyou can do some studying and you can do
some learning and you're just patientlywaiting for your turn to, to learn.
I mean, is that what you just described?
Yes, and I was included inthese lessons as a young girl.
And when my brother went to collegeand was at the college age, he went to
(44:19):
Harvard he would come home and I wouldsit at his seat and just listen to him
discuss again, what he felt was therole and responsibility of government.
And he would tell me his beliefs andhe would, He would ask me mine, and
(44:39):
this relationship that was cultivatedover the love of books and for
learning was really I believe wheremy drive to want to take up the pen
in honor of my brother stems from.
It stems from Seeing him asa role model in your life.
(45:00):
At this current moment,my brother is unable.
Oh, excuse me.
It's okay.
My brother is unable to continue his work.
In promoting the libertiesof us here in the colonies.
Now I hate to ask, but I don'tknow what happened to your brother.
(45:20):
What, why is that?
It is quite challenging for me to discuss.
, my brother always pursued everythingthat he did in life with me.
Um, from a very young age had just awonderful way with mastering the English
language where he could take an argumentof the most mundane nature and be able
(45:47):
to convince you how splendid it waswith just the turn of a few phrases.
My brother also with thispassion suffered from what I
frequently like to call his storm.
There were times when my brother'shis emotions could be unpredictable.
(46:09):
And there were times growing up where wewould, as a family, be, In a very pleasant
setting and everything seemed to be verypositive and it almost seemed as within
an instant, my, my brother's demeanorwould shift and , the storms would cloud
(46:31):
his eyes and he would be taken And asa, as someone who loved my brother Mr.
Adams sometimes would on occasioncall my brother Sir Bluster
Esquire, for the unpredictablenature of my brother's temper.
(46:52):
And This oftentimes could get mybrother into a difficult situation.
Now, Mr.
Dean, you must understand that mybrother is the sole reason why we
here in Massachusetts Bay are ableto continue the work towards writing
(47:14):
these works that are going to behopefully changing the way that
Parliament interacts and sees the world.
As subjects very early on, my brotherwrote about his argument against the
risks of assistance, which were a horrificidea from Parliament that allowed.
(47:34):
Government officials to comeinto your private residence or to
board your private property and tosearch and seize suspicious goods.
That sounds
crazy.
My brother went on to write that taxationwithout representation is tyranny.
It is because of my brother and hisbrilliant mind and his way with words.
(47:57):
It is because of him that Iam able to take my first steps
into the political realm.
And because of his passion, he frequentlywould run afoul of individuals who
did not, who do not share his opinion,who did not believe that he should be
voicing his opinion the way that he does.
(48:18):
And one instance, there was anindividual a scoundrel named Mr.
Robinson, who set upon my brotherand beat him mercilessly with a cane.
Merci had an extraordinaryability to insert herself
into the middle of Massachusettspolitics without overstepping what the
public expected of a woman in her time.
(48:39):
Yet mercy had something to say, andshe was going to find a way to be hurt.
In the next episode, mercy will answerall kinds of tough questions, including
what would you do different if you werea man and didn't have the restraints that
society puts on you as a woman mercy,we'll also talk about John Hancock as
she rolls her eyes a little bit beforeand farming us that everyone knows Mr.
(49:04):
Hancock.
I'm glad you're enjoying the podcast.
If you haven't yet subscribed now,and we'll see you at the next episode
of the calling history podcastwith part two of mercy Otis Warren.
I'm, Tony Dean.
And today we'll be calling historyto speak with mercy Otis Warren.
She'll be answering our call onFebruary 19th, 1774 at the age of 45.
At this time in history, the cityof Boston is on edge waiting for the
English response to the Boston tea party.
That happened two months prior.
(00:48):
Rabble-rousers like Samuel Adamsand powerful men that we now call
founding fathers have become tiredof parliament, their taxes, and their
never ending assault on Liberty.
The whole area is a powder keg, and aslow burning fuse has already been lit.
In the middle of the chaos was theWarren home that served as a meeting
(01:09):
place for the sons of Liberty.
And those that would laterfuel the American revolution.
Her husband, James was a strong advocatefor Liberty, but at this time a woman's
place was in the home, not in politics.
Yet mercy was educated, a prolificwriter and a poet with ideas to
further the cause of freedom.
(01:30):
As a woman though.
She was first committed to herchildren, her husband, and our God.
If she were to address the problem asmen did by pounding their fists, .. Merci
could have ruined her family's reputation.
So instead she used her powerfulwords to assault these injustices
by anonymously writing poems andeventually a play called the Adulator.
(01:51):
Key members of English governmentwere written into the play as
characters, but with differentnames, once it was published in the
newspaper, it was well-received.
And in a way, functioned as a code,allowing citizens to discuss their
grievances without having to do itopenly and risk their own freedom.
It took tremendous courage to expressherself at this time when it was not
(02:16):
acceptable to do so Yet the worldwould be a very different place.
If those that could do good, hadwaited until they were allowed
to ladies and gentlemen, fellowhistory, lovers, and everyone who
loves the smell of a good book.
I give you mercy Otis Warren.
Hello,
is that you, Mrs.
Warren?
Sir I can hear the voice of the speaker,but I know not where the sound comes from.
(02:40):
Can you, do you care
to show yourself?
I won't be able to showmyself, unfortunately, but
I will introduce myself.
My name is Tony Dean, and I'mtalking to you actually from
the future, in the 21st century.
That device in front of you, that'swhere the sound's coming from.
And what that is it's called a smartphone.
It allows us to speak as if we weresitting in the same room, just face
(03:02):
to face talking with one another.
And it also allows me to sharea record of our conversation
with people around the world.
And I was hoping that I could ask yousome questions today, but before I do, I
understand this is a strange introduction.
Can I answer any questions, any otherquestions that you might have first?
Oh, good day to you, Mr.
Dean.
I trust that you are well.
(03:23):
I must admit that this methodof correspondence is a little
disorienting, as you can imagine.
Yes.
If we were writing a correspondence,you see, you cannot see my face
and I would be unable to see yours.
However, we may hold a discussionas if you were right in front of me.
And this is essentially whatis happening now, is it not?
That is correct.
In our time, we can do this from.
(03:45):
Anywhere, and so you can have a personthat's a hundred miles from you and
just have a conversation like this Likethey were right there, and then you
could stop and have a conversation withsomebody that's across world the same way
That is remarkable.
I must admit, oftentimes in mycorrespondence, I wish I would be
able to hear the voice of my belovedfamily member or my dear friends.
(04:06):
So this is quite remarkable.
. Try to imagine in your time with allthis wonderful work that you have
written and try to imagine in yourtime that you were able to write that.
And instead of having to go throughthe process of printing it, you
could send it to every person inthe entire world in the same day.
I mean, that is, that'swhat the future looks like.
(04:27):
Now, you can't tell anybody this.
It's a secret.
They gotta find out on their own.
But that, it sounds amazing, doesn't it?
Now, Mr.
Dean, you're referencing my writings.
You have read my personal correspondence?
I have read some of what you've written,and developed an understanding of,
what you were trying to accomplish,because , right now you're living
in very difficult times, aren't you?
(04:48):
It is very
troubling.
I, I have to have your assurancethat no one from my time will
know of this conversation.
Yes, that is correct.
We're hundreds of years down the road.
And so, , people are going to be able toread the things that you have written.
The history is well documented.
We already know what happens next.
The reason that I'm callingyou is not to find any secrets.
(05:11):
But really, just to get yourperspective on what happened, what
you were trying to accomplish.
You're a hero in our time.
You're a person that women look up to
they look up to you and they say, ifI could find the courage to be like
that, I could make a difference.
And so, Your enemies will neverhear this, and nobody in your time
will hear this, but the people thatwill hear this are the people that
(05:33):
are looking for inspiration becausethey see what you did and said,
maybe I could be better than I am.
Sure, that gives me great comfort.
It is very important to Mr.
Warren and myself, and my friendsand my family, and the safety of all
involved, that my name is Not put tothese works that you're referencing from.
(05:54):
. Mr.
Dean, if I could please perhapsask you a question that might
be a little self indulgent.
You mentioned my writing, but those inmy inner circle and my friends and my
companions know that my poetry is thework that I have been putting my name to.
However how should I say?
Like more delicate worksof a political nature.
(06:15):
I am not yet allowing myname to be associated with.
Is it possible by your time in thefuture, people do know it is my hand
that has written these political works?
Absolutely.
I know that it is not common inyour time for women to assign
their name to something, especially
(06:36):
that would be controversial.
And, yes the things that you havewritten now , that have to do
with the the possibility of somesort of revolution or, standing up
against, what England is doing.
Yes, we absolutely know about those works.
In fact, there have been some worksin our time that have been attributed
to you That the scholars have lookedback and said no, no, no, no, that
(06:58):
wasn't her cause she'd never say that.
But yeah, I think people arepretty clear on what you've
written and what you have not.
That
is remarkable.
Is it possible that in thefuture, women are printing and
publishing under their own names?
It is possible.
In fact, it is happening for sure.
In fact, not only are womenpublishing and doing all those
(07:20):
things, women run businesses.
Women hold the same positions as as men.
we were very close tohaving a woman president.
And in other countries around theworld, there have been women that
have been president and are right now.
So, yes.
Women play a different role.
Partially because of some ofthe things that you've done.
In our time, it's hard to even imaginethe challenges you would have had,
(07:43):
because, , you couldn't just go outand publish something in your name.
I'm guessing there wouldbe some repercussion.
Well, What would happen if you were towrite something , against England in
your name, and they found out it wasyou, what would the consequences be?
There, there are laws andprotections for the press.
One might hearken back to the Zengertrial in New York city in the 1730s.
(08:05):
However.
You must remember that women's fearis one not to be found in politics.
It is the duty of the womanto, to run the household, to
be a dutiful wife and mother.
And I can't imagine the damage thatcould be caused if it was found
(08:28):
that a woman was making her voicesknown in a political context.
Does that make sense?
It makes sense, but it's veryconfusing because it appears
that's exactly what you did.
You were trying to juggleboth of those, weren't you?
My role first and foremostis to be a wife and a mother.
(08:48):
I have had the incredible goodfortune of having an education and
taking up a more masculine approachto my thoughts because of the men who
have championed education around me.
I frequently struggle with myrole as a a writer and what
(09:10):
opinions I should be voicing.
And again, most of those timesthat is done within the comfort
of my own home and surrounded bythose that I love and I trust.
Now that is surprising.
This is not what I expected you to sayat all, because I didn't expect that this
would be a struggle for you to have, asyou say, this masculine approach to your
(09:33):
writing or your role in, in this fightthat you appear to be working towards.
, this is something that you struggled with.
This is something that you wereuncomfortable with or even fearful of.
Very much so.
What would it be to reflect upon Mysex my station, my family and to put
(09:53):
my husband's good reputation at riskand of course, ultimately the cause for
which so many of us are fighting for.
There's a great risk to be hadif people had found out what
works have come from my pen.
Now that you're saying this, there'ssomething, there's a quote that I
(10:14):
read, and I don't know if you wrotethis, or just somebody said this,
you strongly encouraged womenwriters to be cheerful in their
performance of their household duties?
Absolutely.
Tell me what you're thinking about that,because I have a different picture of you.
I have, I see you out here like,Almost like a Sam Adams character,
(10:34):
where you're stirring things up,
oh, not like Mr.
Adams, sir.
Mr.
Adams has the luxury of his station.
And being a male to be able to, as yousay, stir things up no, it is absolutely
the job of the wife to, to run thehousehold and to make sure that she
is raising her children in accordancewith the laws of God and nature.
(11:00):
Okay, that makes sense.
So, if that's the case, how do youend up in the, involved in the middle
of what is happening right now?
Because my understanding is, I think theyear is 1774, if I've got that right.
It is.
It is.
And the ties between England and And thecolonies are not very good, there are
(11:20):
lots of problems, and aren't you havingmeetings at your house where Sam Adams
and all these people are meeting at yourhome talking about liberty and revolution?
Is that not happening atyour home, in front of you?
Mr.
Warren and I have heard ourhome called One Liberty Square.
That is the nickname that has beengiven to our home in Plymouth.
(11:42):
Yes, we are hosting many guests at timesthey like to be called committees of
correspondence where we are entertainingfriends and like minded individuals and
many conversations are to be had aboutthese What violations of English rights
are being committed by our government?
(12:02):
And what steps need to be taken?
In order to secure those rightsand to restore balance in,
particularly Massachusetts Bay.
Our friends who gather in our parlorthere are many discussions to be had
about current events and about what's thelatest acts from Parliament are saying.
(12:24):
And oftentimes, yes, I am invitedto take part in these conversations.
And it is quite liberating for awoman to be able to speak her mind
freely and to share her opinionswith those that she reflects.
So tell me, at these committees ofcorrespondence, I understand this was a
(12:44):
this seems like it was a very significantmeeting in relation to what happens next.
I listed some names.
What people are showingup at these events?
, I listed some of them, but are there more?
Yes, so Mr.
Adams is a frequentvisitor and through Mr.
Adams I have met hisdelightful wife, Abigail, Mrs.
Adams.
(13:05):
We have formed a closepartnership, she and I, and we
write frequently to each other.
But other names that you might notknow so well of are local individuals
from town, from Plymouth and elsewhere.
We have friends that come fromBarnstable, we have friends that come
from Boston, and of course Braintree,where the Addamses are located.
(13:25):
But out of good respect for myfriends I shall not be naming any more
names than you currently know, sir.
But is that what ishappening at these events?
Are we talking about revolution?
Are we talking aboutnegotiating with the English?
What are your hopes?
Is there a possibility of reconciliation?
(13:45):
Sir, you mentioned this word revolution.
There are some radicals that arecalling for a complete break.
However, it is far too early.
You might recall just, what was about twomonths ago December of the last year, that
individuals in Boston decided to take itupon themselves and to make a very public
(14:10):
statement Destroying 342 chests of tea bydumping them overboard into Boston Harbor.
This is a remark againstParliament's repeated acts and
abuses against the colonies.
And there are some individuals whowould be calling for our King, our
(14:32):
Lord Sovereign, to be able to take agreater stand, but we have to remind
ourselves that this is Parliamentand Parliament's actions that have
led us to this place currently.
So for somebody that might notunderstand what you're talking
about, what would be the differencebetween king and parliament?
Are you saying one is toblame and not the other?
You see that parliament andking are two separate entities.
(14:56):
We have our government in England.
We also have our government herein the colonies which has also
seemed to have quite lost itsway for a number of years now.
Our king Does not pass the acts andthe taxes that Parliament insists on.
So if one were to bring their judgment,it would be against Parliament.
(15:20):
However, here in Massachusettsmuch of our frustration is aimed
towards our own local governor.
And our own colonial assembly.
There have been over the past few yearschanges, for example, of the way that
our governor and even our courts arepaid, which would have been previously
(15:42):
determined by our colonial assemblies.
And that was used as.
A measure of a check against the abuseof power, for example, once that had
been violated and we start to see otheracts such as the dreaded Stamp Act of 65.
We see the Townsend Acts of 67.
(16:04):
And here we are in the year 1774, and manypeople are fearful of what step Parliament
is going to take next in retaliationfor the destruction of the Tea.
So you see, this has been severalyears of people here in the colonies,
specifically in Massachusetts Bay,wondering when will the violation of our
(16:29):
rights as English men and women cease.
And there does not seem to be an end in
sight.
When you say people are fearful,
what are they fearful of?
Are they fearful that, we've got the StampAct, and we've got the Townsend Act, and
now they're going to come out with theBoot and Leather Act, and they're just
going to be coming up with new ideas thatto tax you, and then you guys fight it
(16:52):
back, or are you thinking bigger things?
Like, what do you see happening next?
I think the histories of antiquityhave shown us that relatively
peaceful spans of time undermen's control do not seem to last.
Now, the relative peaceful years of myyouth, I think seem to be an anomaly but
(17:18):
One of the books, that I had read as achild while studying the history of the
world, Raleigh, and knowing that I cancombine what I've learned from these books
and what I've learned from the classics Iuse that word fearful because I do believe
that we are headed, oh, almost headfirstinto a period of history where, you use
(17:44):
the term revolutionary that is goingto be Changing the way that governments
and men interact with each other.
Are you familiar with thephilosopher Locke, for example?
I am somewhat, but please continue.
So,
my dear brother, Jemmy and I wouldsit for hours talking about Mr.
(18:05):
Locke's concepts on natural libertiesand what agreements the people and
the government must have in order forsociety to function, , to proceed.
Mr.
Dean, tell me in your own mind, whatresponsibilities and duties does the
government have to its people, or
does it?
In our time I think people would saythat government's responsibility,
(18:28):
at least the responsibility thatthey act on, would be to spend money
, without any intelligent thought.
To make poor decisions, and toput politicians in front of us
that we don't want to vote for.
I think that's what most people wouldsay, but I think what's supposed
to happen is, is I think governmentis supposed to , work together to
protect the mass, and then also todo things to make the individual
(18:52):
citizen's life better in some way.
I agree.
I believe that as these philosophersfrom Europe are stating, that
there is a right for the governmentand a duty and an obligation to
Respect the wishes of the people.
We can hearken back to Magna Carta.
(19:13):
to the English Bill of Rights wherethere is a separation and that
the king, the crown does not haveabsolute power over the people.
Yet this is what we are seeing happen.
Almost in every single act that has beenpassed by Parliament against her colonies.
And instead of the men and womenliving here in the colonies being
(19:35):
treated , as loyal and dutiful subjectsof the king we're being treated as
individuals that should be controlled.
And so in essence, Mr.
Dean, what we're seeing happenhere is a breakdown of the
rights of English men and women.
And so, yes, I am fearful for the future.
We are awaiting word of if there is to beretaliation from our government against
(20:00):
the destruction of the teach some folkshave said that they are speculating
that , more troops will be sent.
Some are speculating that even ourharbor, our ports could be closed down.
And I can't think of more devastatingimpacts on economy and life and
(20:20):
livelihood than if something like thatwere to happen it's all together quite
distressing.
So when you say more troops, howmany troops are there right now?
, It is not necessarily the number, sir.
It is the idea that troops shouldnot be quartered or stationed in
a town unless it's a time of war.
(20:43):
I know of no war.
So again, we must ask whythese repeated abuses.
It sounds like there's a war againsttea right now, and the tea is losing.
You see, we have been boycottingtea for several years now,
as well as other imports.
Dear friends of mine who sharewe should say common sentiment
(21:06):
against our government's policiescurrently have decided that, yes
we should not be partaking in teaor importing certain goods and you
shall see this being called out in inpoetry, in pamphlets, in newspapers,
Speaking of the tea, by theway, did the colonists do that?
Did Indians do that?
(21:26):
Who threw the tea into the bay?
Sir, I am not at liberty to say.
I will tell you, I am currentlyworking on a publication, a play.
That will allude to thelatest unhappy acts in Boston.
But yeah, there are individualswho are claiming responsibility,
(21:48):
but again, not publicly.
Who are the individuals that are claimingresponsibility, but not publicly?
I'm sure you are familiar with agroup called the Sons of Liberty.
I am, very much so.
Yes,
so members of the Sons of Liberty havedecided to take it upon themselves
to make a political statement.
(22:09):
Now, I'll remind you, good sir, therewere other items that were aboard those
three ships that were not touched theonly Items to be destroyed with tea and
this was in a direct connection to ourlatest act by parliament It was directly
a political protest and nothing more Youwill see some individuals that tried to
(22:32):
spin it as wanton destruction of propertybut When you look at a specific item that
was targeted, it was T in direct response.
And I have to remind you as well,sir, there were multiple meetings
and there were multiple letterssent back and forth asking that
this T was not going to be unloaded.
(22:54):
are you saying that there wascorrespondence with Parliament or the
King, or who were you correspondingwith saying that we're not going to
unload the tea, and were you suggestingthat they return the tea to England?
So, several times in an opendiscussion to discuss that the tea
should not be unloaded from the ships.
(23:15):
These decisions are part of adiscourse that our government is used
to and has the right to engage in.
And so when these conversations take placeand when there is correspondence that
is being published in our newspapers andindividuals are talking and discussing
(23:38):
about what the fate of the tea shouldbe one would argue that ample time
and opportunity was given before.
Such an act was undertaken.
So they had plenty of warning.
And was some of this correspondencebetween Governor Hutchinson and
the people of Massachusetts?
Governor Hutchinson, thisname that you bring up.
(24:02):
Did I touch his nerve?
And is a name that I wouldrather not spend time discussing.
You see, Mr.
Hutchinson and my family have had quitea history of unpleasant connections.
Much of it stems back from My fatherbeing passed over in positions
(24:26):
of government in favor of Mr.
Hutchinson and, of course, my dearelder brother, Jemmy writing and
issuing some Statements that Mr.
Hutchinson did not agree with andcurrently does not agree with Mr.
Hutchinson has made several decisionsin his own time as governor that
(24:48):
has not benefited him personally.
He has written letters abroad that hadbeen published in her own newspaper that
show him to be an enemy of the people ofMassachusetts, no matter what he says.
And you will see that in some of mypolitical writing, specifically some
(25:08):
of my plays that , his character isrevealed to be just as it is, which
is not favorable in many of the eyesof people here in Massachusetts.
For those that may not be students ofhistory or may not know exactly what Mr.
Hutchinson's role was , you explain thathe's doing terrible things and he's not
(25:31):
really, thinking about the the colonies,which is his job, but what is his role?
What is, who is he?
What, explain who he is.
Mr.
Hutchinson's role in governmentas governor is to be the head of
government here in Massachusetts,but also to be listening to his
(25:51):
cabinet to the colonial assembly.
And.
Instead, Mr.
Hutchinson has made several decisionsas his time as governor that has gone
against what we feel is within the bestinterest of the Massachusetts people.
, it seems like you obviously havesome, have contempt for him, and it
(26:12):
seems that he has a very difficultjob, because what the colonists
want, and what parliament and theking want, , They're very different.
I , my understanding is the king wouldjust like you to send all their money
in the form of taxes and then they'dbe happy and then you'd like to keep
all your money and send them none.
(26:32):
And so he's trying to bein between the two of you.
That seems like a really hardjob because it doesn't seem
like there's a right answer.
Is his job impossibleor is he a scoundrel?
These are challenging questions.
It perhaps might be a little.
helpful if I was to give you a moreof a history on the background between
my family and the Hutchinson's.
(26:54):
I mentioned my father lost outon a position in government.
It was an unexpected loss.
, it was thought he was going to wina vote for a place on the governor's
council, which is in Massachusetts.
And so that's what we're goingto do since we have an upper
chamber in our legislature.
And this is in the Houseof Representatives, and
it was an unexpected loss.
(27:14):
Hutchinson who is then LieutenantGovernor was blamed for influencing
members to vote against my fatherafter a few years had passed Mr.
Hutchinson again won a positionof superior court chief
justice instead of my father.
And I am fully aware of how it soundsas this might be a personal vendetta,
(27:38):
but when you look at the situationin a grander scheme, it is more about
a consolidation of power because Mr.
Hutchinson Being a member ofthe Governor's Council is also
related by marriage to the Oliverfamily . And the Oliver family in
(27:58):
here in Massachusetts, they holdseveral key government positions.
So, again, I am fully aware that thissounds as this might be a family matter,
however, when you apply it to a granderaudience, you can see how Members of
the government in Massachusetts when itis so closely connected by family and
(28:20):
by blood, the consolidation of powertends to become rather unsettling.
And again, it's all about the preservationof liberties of individuals here.
He does have a difficult job.
However, , I think a greater man wouldunderstand the implications of his
position.
(28:40):
I I don't disagree with you at all.
I mean, we're obviously aware ofWhat he did and there's no question.
He was not the right guy for that jobfor sure because he just wasn't able.
It was a difficult job, but hewasn't able to juggle both duties
in my opinion, and so I guess whatI wanted to ask you about him.
(29:01):
You were talking about letters thatwere released secret letters, and
they were published in the papers.
Did you have a role in that?
Oh,
no, sir.
No.
These are private letters and while theyhad been written several years earlier,
this is a new scandal to befall Mr.
Hutchinson and Mr.
(29:22):
Oliver when these letters were publishedand again, none of us are quite certain
how these letters were to be found.
However, what we do know is that theseletters are Telling us very much about
the content and the character of Mr.
Hutchinson.
And it is quite unsettling theimplications of what he would
(29:46):
say about his own people of
Massachusetts.
Do you recall the content of any of them?
Oh, yes.
They're being published in the newspapers.
The implication of these letters are.
That we are, as a people arealarmed that our governor and our
(30:06):
lieutenant governor would call forthe abridgment of our rights and
that there are certain radicals.
in Massachusetts specifically.
And I know that this is specificallyrelating to my brother, Jemmy who deserved
to suffer the fullest consequences
(30:26):
of the law.
Wow.
You're saying Jemmy, is that G E M Y?
Is that how you're saying it though?
Yes.
Jemmy is the name that I callmy eldest brother James Otis.
I completely understand whyyou're calling your brother Jemmy.
I understand that crystal clear.
(30:47):
Because there's a lotof Jameses in your life.
Yeah.
I mean, what's your brother'sactual name is James, right?
And your dad?
And your husband, right?
Yes, sir.
Do you have a child's name, James?
Yes, sir.
Now, for somebody that is so creativein thought, I'm very surprised
(31:09):
that your child's name was James.
Everybody's name is James.
How do you keep them separated?
Sir, for my eldest son to have thename of not only his father, but also
his grandfather and one of the mostimportant people in my life, my eldest
brother it is a badge of honor, sir.
(31:30):
Not a lack of creativity,
as you would say.
That was an unfair low blow, wasn't it?
So, we're talking aboutHutchinson right now.
And my understanding is that youwanted to shine a light on what he was
doing and his faults in the hope thatI don't know, maybe somebody would
do something different or better.
And so there was a play , thatwas a significant piece of
(31:50):
literature at that time.
And we know about it now.
You can get copies of it now.
. It is actually quite liberating tobe able to talk about this freely.
. the publication, the MassachusettsSpy, are you familiar with it?
It is Mr.
Thomas paper he ran an advertisement fora performance of a play, The Adulator,
(32:11):
at the Grand Parade in Upper Serbia.
And in his publication It wascertainly not the first page.
It was well into his paper.
I believe on page three or so.
He took nearly half a page to listthe characters and a couple of
scenes from the play, and , it causedquite a stir, as you can imagine.
(32:33):
Now, this is not going to be anactual play however, this is going
to be, Released in several parts.
And once it was published inthe newspapers, then it was able
to be printed into a pamphlet.
But the character Rapacio.
Who is Hutchinson is the individual whois trying to bask in the glory of his
(33:00):
scheme that he was going to be quenchingthe generous flame, the ardent love
of liberty in Serbia's freeborn son.
And as, The title that I chosethe Agilator, he must seek out the
agilating tongues of his inner circleto relieve his phantom conscience.
I'm quite proud of this publication.
(33:22):
Many people were talking about itand it was really my first step into,
again, that masculine realm of politics.
That is why I feel now, here we are, andI am about a week, I believe, a week out
from giving my first draft to Misfier'sEads and Gill of the Boston Gazette
(33:47):
to print my latest poem, which is TheSquabble of the Sea Nymphs, which is a,
an account of the destruction of the tea.
And of course I have Individualsin my life that are championing
my writing and encouraging me tocontinue to put my pen to paper.
Fortunately, we don't have to figureout who those champions are because
(34:10):
they're all the James in your
life.
They are all the James's in my life.
Did you say that?
That is called the squabble of the sea
nymphs.
It is, yes.
Or the sacrifice of the Tuscaroros.
It is a fictional account.
But I shall give you a little a sample.
The heroes of the Tuscaroro tribe whoscorned alike a feather or a bribe,
(34:31):
in honor rang it and waited freedom'snod to make an offering to watery God.
So essentially what we have here are theindividuals, the sea nymphs who are Going
to be partaking in this tea and the thesubsequent refusal of the Tuscaroros to do
so.
If there's one thing we knowabout the history of sea
(34:52):
nymphs, they love English tea.
They just love it.
They can't drink enough of it, right?
Well, They should be very happy withthe events of the last month or so
This particular Idea camefrom my dear friends.
Mr.
Adams Who had written to mr.
Warren and had I was asked if I wouldtake pen to paper and would be able
(35:17):
to write a poem in tribute of theSons of Liberty, and I did not think
myself equal to the task asked of me,but my husband reassured me that Mr.
Adams would not have just askedanyone to complete a task such as
this, and so that I should take itas encouragement and as a privilege.
(35:39):
Especially from John Adams.
Talk about a man who could spin a taleor put it on paper just as easily.
That guy can write.
For him to ask you to writeanything, , that would be an honor.
Regardless of if you were a man orhe was a man or whoever was a man
or woman wouldn't make a difference.
Of Mr.
Adams, I know him as nothing butencouraging and forward thinking
(36:02):
and thoughtful and pointed.
And I believe that it is the lastquality that most individuals might
take issue with, his pointedness.
He is, Not one to sprinkle seeds offlowers amongst his garden of words.
If Mr.
Adams has an opinion hewill certainly vocalize it.
But it also means that you know where Mr.
(36:23):
Adams stands on topics at hand,and there is no guesswork.
There's no wonderingabout what his words mean.
And I believe that individualswho are used to speaking in a more
gentle and delicate manner in a waythat is more delicate to society's
ears, that they take issue with Mr.
Adams.
I can't imagine a person having aconversation with him and then John Adams
(36:48):
walks away and that person's sitting therethinking, I wonder what he was getting at.
I'm not sure what he meant.
That is probably something thathas never happened even one time
in his life, even in his own house.
Even in his own house,and my dear friend, Mrs.
Adams, Abigail, and I oftentimes remark onthe joys and the challenges of marriage.
(37:12):
What happens when our husbandsvoice opinions that perhaps
we must have to soften?
I believe that Mr.
Adams's opponents stoop to levelsof insult rather than try to use
their own pointed way of speakingwith him, which he very much
appreciates, and which is why Mrs.
Adams is, oh, his equal in every
(37:33):
regard.
You have a really goodrelationship with her, don't you,
we do.
Mrs.
Adams and I, are onlyrecent acquaintances.
Mrs.
Adams loves to read, and soshe and I share that passion.
And within our circle of friendsQuite often joke and remark on Mrs.
(37:53):
Adams's book club for we will oftentimesread and then in our correspondence,
right about what we think about the booksand our own thoughts and how we would.
Most likely improve theworks of literature.
It is quite amusing, ourcorrespondence with one another.
Do you, are there female writers in yourtime that do publish under their name?
(38:15):
Are there any?
Oh, there are.
Again, most of this is going to be poetry.
Or works for the gentler sex.
There is a publication that is printedin London called the Ladies Magazine.
And in these publications, oftentimesyou'll have short stories, and you will
have music, and you will have recipes,and you will have poetical works.
(38:40):
And of course, foreign and domesticnews from abroad and oftentimes,
we will be reading works that arewritten by women, for women, in our
own colony of Massachusetts, therehave been women who have written.
There is , currently , a woman whois writing and is publishing , and
(39:01):
would you believe she is anenslaved woman in Boston?
Her name is Mrs.
Wheatley.
And though I have not hadthe chance to meet Mrs.
Wheatley her works arebeing published under her
own name.
And she's an enslaved woman.
She is.
I love books.
And I hear you talking I love reading.
(39:23):
And I love as I hearyou talking about Mrs.
Adams and you being inAbigail Adams book club.
That sounds like because she isspirited in a different way than
John Adams is, way that is a littleeasier to swallow, so to speak.
, is that where, your education started?
I mean, your ability to write the wayyou do, your ability to engage in these
(39:47):
political discussions that ordinarily,as you say, would be considered,
you know, Did that come from books?
Did you have some formal education?
, It is said that there are certain smells that can bring instant comfort
or trigger the most unpleasant memories.
Do you know what I speak of?
I think I do, yes.
(40:08):
How scent can bring comfort.
For me, it's the scent ofpaper and leather and ink.
There is no greater joy than ifI was to walk into a bookstore or
a print shop or a library and sitin silence with a book in my hand.
And it has been books that are myconstant companion over the years.
(40:28):
During James absence.
The letters again I mentionedin correspondence to my
dear friends and family.
It's paper and it's the quill.
My dear husband often timesrefers to me as the scribbler.
That's one of his termsof affection for me.
At our home in Plymouth, there is alittle desk in front of a window in
(40:50):
the upstairs of our house where Ifrequently enjoy sitting and just casting
my gaze out the window and writing.
And you might think I'm a silly womanfor saying so, but I believe there's
something cathartic in putting wordsfrom the mind down onto paper and then
releasing those words wild into the world.
(41:11):
my earliest years, books and discourseabout books have brought me joy.
My brother, Jemmy, and my brotherJoseph as is custom, was given the
privilege of studying in tutelageunder Reverend Russell, who happens
(41:33):
to be our uncle in Barnstable.
And much of this push foreducation came from my father.
You see, my father I was not a learned man, and I believe that this was insecurity
that he held on to for most of his life,and he was very insistent upon Jemmy
and Joseph receiving a formal education.
(41:57):
Now Joseph did not take to booksand learning the way that Jemmy
did, and I'm sure at some pointconcerning to my father and Joseph
went to work in my father's store.
It is because of Joseph's reluctance tosit and to learn that I believe I was
(42:21):
given the opportunity to sit in on mybrother's lessons with Reverend Russell.
We walked into Reverend Russell's study.
Oh, Mr.
Dean, I would estimate that therewere a hundred books in that study.
Okay.
And so again, that smell really bringsme back to my childhood and I had
(42:42):
begged and begged Papa that I couldfit in on these lessons and once
Joseph vacated his studies, I wouldsit in awe and listen to how my brother
would speak with Reverend Russellabout the topics that were at hand.
We'd be reading classics and histories.
The translations of Virgil and Homer Iwasn't allowed to learn Latin and Greek
(43:06):
but I could listen in and I would listento the sermons from Reverend Russell.
I'd be able to write and I believe thisis where really my love for the classics
and for any allusions that I can maketo antiquity in my writing comes from.
I'm sorry I, I, my memories aretaking me to a place that you must
(43:32):
just think I'm, I'm so silly for.
I, I apologize.
I do not think that at all.
I literally am like sitting on the edgeof my seat on every word that you're
saying because I think that what ittakes for somebody in your time to, To
rise to this level is extraordinary.
I mean, it's, you just described to methat your brother is sitting there in
(43:54):
class and you're waiting for him to getdone with his lesson so that you can
pick up the scraps, so to speak, likeyou can do some studying and you can do
some learning and you're just patientlywaiting for your turn to, to learn.
I mean, is that what you just described?
Yes, and I was included inthese lessons as a young girl.
And when my brother went to collegeand was at the college age, he went to
(44:19):
Harvard he would come home and I wouldsit at his seat and just listen to him
discuss again, what he felt was therole and responsibility of government.
And he would tell me his beliefs andhe would, He would ask me mine, and
(44:39):
this relationship that was cultivatedover the love of books and for
learning was really I believe wheremy drive to want to take up the pen
in honor of my brother stems from.
It stems from Seeing him asa role model in your life.
(45:00):
At this current moment,my brother is unable.
Oh, excuse me.
It's okay.
My brother is unable to continue his work.
In promoting the libertiesof us here in the colonies.
Now I hate to ask, but I don'tknow what happened to your brother.
(45:20):
What, why is that?
It is quite challenging for me to discuss.
, my brother always pursued everythingthat he did in life with me.
Um, from a very young age had just awonderful way with mastering the English
language where he could take an argumentof the most mundane nature and be able
(45:47):
to convince you how splendid it waswith just the turn of a few phrases.
My brother also with thispassion suffered from what I
frequently like to call his storm.
There were times when my brother'shis emotions could be unpredictable.
(46:09):
And there were times growing up where wewould, as a family, be, In a very pleasant
setting and everything seemed to be verypositive and it almost seemed as within
an instant, my, my brother's demeanorwould shift and , the storms would cloud
(46:31):
his eyes and he would be taken And asa, as someone who loved my brother Mr.
Adams sometimes would on occasioncall my brother Sir Bluster
Esquire, for the unpredictablenature of my brother's temper.
(46:52):
And This oftentimes could get mybrother into a difficult situation.
Now, Mr.
Dean, you must understand that mybrother is the sole reason why we
here in Massachusetts Bay are ableto continue the work towards writing
(47:14):
these works that are going to behopefully changing the way that
Parliament interacts and sees the world.
As subjects very early on, my brotherwrote about his argument against the
risks of assistance, which were a horrificidea from Parliament that allowed.
(47:34):
Government officials to comeinto your private residence or to
board your private property and tosearch and seize suspicious goods.
That sounds
crazy.
My brother went on to write that taxationwithout representation is tyranny.
It is because of my brother and hisbrilliant mind and his way with words.
(47:57):
It is because of him that Iam able to take my first steps
into the political realm.
And because of his passion, he frequentlywould run afoul of individuals who
did not, who do not share his opinion,who did not believe that he should be
voicing his opinion the way that he does.
(48:18):
And one instance, there was anindividual a scoundrel named Mr.
Robinson, who set upon my brotherand beat him mercilessly with a cane.
Merci had an extraordinaryability to insert herself
into the middle of Massachusettspolitics without overstepping what the
public expected of a woman in her time.
(48:39):
Yet mercy had something to say, andshe was going to find a way to be hurt.
In the next episode, mercy will answerall kinds of tough questions, including
what would you do different if you werea man and didn't have the restraints that
society puts on you as a woman mercy,we'll also talk about John Hancock as
she rolls her eyes a little bit beforeand farming us that everyone knows Mr.
(49:04):
Hancock.
I'm glad you're enjoying the podcast.
If you haven't yet subscribed now,and we'll see you at the next episode
of the calling history podcastwith part two of mercy Otis Warren.
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