March 6, 2024 • 42 mins
In Part 2 of the 1692 conversation with Rebecca Nurse, she will explain how a person is guilty until they can prove their innocence. She will make a guess why Tituba, who was clearly a witch, was not executed first, and why the magistrates let Rebecca go free, and then arrested and eventually hung her anyway.
Start episode 2 to join the conversation.
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Jessica Michna’s portrayal of Rebecca Nurse is nothing short of mesmerizing. You can feel the unwavering conviction of Rebecca Nurse’s innocence in her voice as you are transported to this tumultuous time in history. Her portrayal of Rebecca Nurse allows you to explore this fascinating period without having your own neck in the hangman’s noose. You can learn more about Jessica and the many other characters she portrays at: historicalfirstimpressions.com or 262-758-2131.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:28):
Welcome back to part two of Rebecca nurse.
In the last episode, we heard aboutthe evil creature that was Tituba.
We talked about thetwelve-year-old and Putnam Jr.
Making accusations with onlyspectral evidence and why men of
the law were handling these issuesrather than men of the cloth.
In this episode, Rebecca willtalk about the absurd requirements
(00:51):
to prove her innocence after beingaccused of witchcraft and her sister who
was branded and exiled after confessing,even though Rebecca was absolutely
certain that she was not a witch.
Out of the women who have beenaccused so far, or the men, Which
of them have confessed that theyhave participated in witchcraft?
(01:14):
There are some who have.
My own sister Mary has confessed.
But it is dependent upon asto whether they will be shown
mercy by the magistrates.
And some will be shown mercy.
I will not confess tothis under any duress.
I will not confess.
(01:35):
I have been taken aside withothers and we have been placed.
We were taken to a barn.
Our arms were tethered behind our backs.
The ropes were swung over the beamin the barn and we were hoisted
into the air near inches fromthe floor and we were questioned.
(01:57):
But I could not speak these untruths.
Some cannot withstand such tortures,and they will confess, and perhaps
the magistrates will show their mercy.
At this point, I believe someonehas related to me that 162 persons
(02:18):
have been brought before themagistrates, and there will be more.
And I can never put aside thedeath of that one child who starved
to death in that summer of 1692.
I shall face tomorrow, for I cansay before my Eternal Father,
(02:38):
That I am innocent, and I knowthat God will clear my innocence.
There are a lot of people thatare also saying that they're
innocent, both men and women.
If 162 people have been arrested,and if they're being arrested on
spectral evidence, Can you tellme what spectral evidence is?
(03:03):
Can just any person look into thesky and say they see a, specter
or a demon or a devil, and thenthey can condemn another person?
I suppose that is rather a simpleway to place that argument.
But yes, one can report that theyhave seen Goody, Rebecca, Nurse,
(03:23):
fly upon an object across the moon.
Or that perhaps upon tappingthe head of a neighbor's cow,
the cow would die within a day.
Or the argument that I had in thepast with a neighbor when his pig
rooted up my garden, and withinthe year this gentleman was dead.
(03:49):
That could be used against me.
That I had perhaps put a spell uponhim that he should die within the year.
And I have no way of proving otherwise.
You see, it is incumbent upon the personwho is arrested to prove their innocence.
(04:09):
The court of Oye and Determinerdoes not have to prove my guilt.
I must prove my innocence.
And perhaps it will be my death inwhich I will prove that I am innocent.
For I have not betrayed.
My belief, my faith, . And perhapsI shall proven innocent by my death.
(04:36):
Goody Rebecca, in your time, I want,I'm going to put a scenario in front
of you, and I'm wondering in yourtime if I'm reading this correctly.
Reverend Parris , is he a good man?
I do not believe so.
I do not believe he isworthy of his position.
I do not believe thathis judgment is pure.
(04:56):
I do not believe that his heart is ispure, that he is a man of good faith.
I could not speak such in public.
I could not declare this withinthe Meeting House that my feelings
toward him, that I see him as a weakman who is not true to his faith.
(05:16):
I could not speak this public.
. That's actually perfect for thequestion that I want to ask you,
because you do not feel that he isa man deserving of his position.
It is also my understanding that thebeginning of all of this was when his
child got sick and then didn't get better.
(05:36):
And then , as that child is nothealing, then a doctor comes in
and says this child is bewitched.
Is my understanding correct that if youwere to then say, whether it were true
or not, which I know you would never dothis, but if you were to say, because
you don't like him, And you don't thinkhe's deserving of his position, that you
(05:58):
saw him cast a spell on his daughter.
That would be enough evidenceto condemn him unless he
could prove that was not true.
Is that correct?
Yes.
Yes.
It is indeed correct.
Again, we must see that he is a man who isin a more powerful position than myself.
(06:21):
I am a woman.
I am an older woman.
And I do not have thepower of his position.
And this, quite honestly, is adreadful place in which I find myself.
And I will not speak an untruth.
I will not say that I have flownupon an object when the moon is high,
(06:46):
or that I have bewitched a child.
I would not harm a child.
I would not harm a dumb beast, butit is a matter of what is believed
by some and what is believed byothers and what is not believed.
And the magistrates, the jury, theywill believe and have believed that
(07:08):
I have bewitched persons, that I haveinjured persons, and I am not in power.
I am not a woman with power.
There is no such thing.
Women do not have power.
That power is granted only to men.
I find it interesting that there aren't asmany witches or warlocks that are either
(07:33):
in strong political positions, at somelevel of status, and are men in power.
It's interesting how somehow warlocks justnever seem to make it to those people.
Yes, it is.
I think it is rather interestingthat when one is without power One
is, would the word be powerless?
(07:57):
When one is powerless, one is moreapt to be accused of wrongdoing,
such as Sarah Osborne, becauseshe has become an irritant.
others in Salem are angry and tiredof having to support this very
old person who can no longer work.
(08:18):
She is nearly blind anddeaf, bent over with age.
And perhaps they are simply tired ofhaving to support and help this woman.
For the belief is that if one cannot workand one cannot support oneself, then one
perhaps is not worthy of life itself.
(08:40):
That's incredible.
It seems to me that Tituba and AnnPutnam Jr., that if anybody was going
to be executed and or accused ofwitchcraft, it would be these two.
, it just seems like these two started mostof either the rumors or the accusations,
(09:02):
whatever you want to call them.
Has Tichuba been arrested?
Is she in any sort of trouble?
What about Anne?
the creature she was arrested.
Very early on, and she camebefore the magistrates.
I must use some, Isuppose, unseemly language.
(09:23):
She came to them with herfeet and legs were exposed.
And she came before the magistrates,and for three days, she told them
these stories about this devil's book,about her flights over the countryside.
And I think The magistrates believedher, but they also feared her.
(09:50):
They feared that she had great power,that she had great mystical power, that
she indeed could not be simply silenced.
And they were very afraid of her.
And so she again was left in thecustody of her master, the Reverend.
(10:12):
Samuel Parris, and I think themagistrates and the jurors involved
were simply very frightened of Tichupa.
They were too frightenedto even approach her.
But again, she is a slave.
She is a, one might say a, a, Disposableperson, a person of little consequence.
(10:38):
What do you think would happen if Titubawere to, and I think you're leading
to this, but if Tituba was to be verydirect and say to the magistrates that I
am a witch, I know who the witches are,and if I'm imprisoned I will kill every
one of you and all of your families.
What would happen?
(10:59):
I believe, perhaps, she may have spokensuch words, that she may have threatened
that if they were to harm her, thatshe had powers within her reach, that
she had the power of the Black Prince,and that they may indeed be found to be
(11:20):
injured, or illness would strike them.
I was accused of perhaps strikingsomeone dead because of an
incident that occurred with a pig.
But I indeed swore that I Ihad no such indication that I
would hurt someone in that way.
I would not.
(11:42):
But the man died within a year.
And perhaps Tituba was forceful.
They were frightened of her.
Her appearance is very exotic,something that we do not see very
often in Puritan Massachusetts.
Her nakedness her, her dress,her manner dancing about.
(12:07):
I think that perhaps she frightenedthe magistrates and the jury.
To say perhaps we should nottouch such a powerful witch.
I, on the other hand, may nothave that power in their eyes.
Do you believe that Titubacan fly and cast spells?
Yes.
There are those who arepowerful witches and wizards.
(12:31):
And there are those who can perform suchfeats as to fly over the countryside.
Or to injure someone without never layinga hand upon them to cast a spell, to bring
illness, to bring death to a household.
Yes, that is part of what I have livedwith from the time I was a child in
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those very early years was I relatedabout the great devil dog who would rise
up out of the sea when I was a childin Greater Yarmouth in East Anglia.
I believe those things have happened,and they are part of our belief.
In this year of our Lord, 1692,and we must accept them as true.
(13:20):
I still find it very strangethat the powerful people
are not witches or warlocks.
And I'm wondering if you might havesome thoughts about whether or not some
of the more powerful people in societyperhaps are witches or warlocks and
have maybe used those powers to rise.
to those higher levels, but perhapsare better at concealing the
(13:45):
fact that they have these powers.
What are your thoughts on that?
I think they're verywell maybe assured for.
There are those who are more powerfuland perhaps they have risen to that
level because of their powers becauseof their alignment with the Dark Prince.
And I am sure.
(14:05):
That I am weaker, I am, I'm not capable ofthese things I fear them greatly, and I do
believe that there are some who may have,indeed, signed the devil's book in their
own blood, and who are now in great power.
(14:25):
Many of the bishops, perhaps, that,that have ruled for so many years in,
in England, and have made many suffer.
Under their stringent laws,perhaps they too are part of a
greater circle of the devil's own.
(14:47):
perhaps indeed there are wickedpersons who are of a very high level.
But I also believe that many are doingwhat they think perhaps is right.
And I, I cannot question why the Lord hasplaced this difficulty upon my shoulders.
(15:07):
At this very late time in my life,but I also must accept it, but we
must also realize and understandin belief and faith that there are
some who have the full grace of Godwithin them and others who do not.
And that is not something thatone can choose for oneself.
(15:32):
It is predetermined as to whether wehave the full grace of God within us.
And we must strive and hope andpray that we have that within us.
But there are those who mayabuse their power, whether it
was brought to them rightfully orwhether because of the black arts.
(15:54):
It is beyond my understanding, perhaps.
I've heard that you, have some healingabilities or some skills in this area.
Is there some truth to that?
Yes, I learning at my mother's knee,I have the knowledge of roots and
(16:16):
herbs and plants that I have alsoavailed myself of over the years.
I have never I have never done harm toanyone, and I would never injure anyone.
I have been there during the timeof a woman's travail, and I have
aided her travail by the means ofherbs and plants that I have learned
(16:40):
throughout the years and with myexperience and with the knowledge
from my own mother, Joanna Towne.
I have given help to those who needit, but I have never done harm, and I
would never harm person nor a beast.
I have indeed cured theailments of beasts in the past.
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When a cow perhaps has dried andwill not give milk, I have aided.
By means of using herbs and plants,I have helped, as I say, in during a
woman's travail, I have aided to bringthe child forth and have a live birth.
And I have practicedthese arts to help others.
(17:27):
Never to harm.
It seems that mixing roots and findingberries and coming up with different
potions and concoctions to healpeople or ointments or selves however
you would put it, it seems like thatwould be dangerous in your time.
' cause how would somebody know ifwhat you were mixing up . Whether
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there was malintent or not.
One takes it upon faith.
For the most of my life, I haveknown to be a woman of good faith.
Many of my neighbors could attest that Iwas a woman of good faith all my years.
And one must put trust in one another.
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And there are times when itis important for those around
you, if you extend your help.
For If you wish to help them, they musttrust that you will do them no harm.
Perhaps if a physician comes to you andwishes to bleed you, and you fear that
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he is going to harm you in his efforts.
And as a result of your refusal,that he bleeds you and you
indeed die within a few days.
Is he then at fault?
Or is the choice that you decidednot to be bled, was that a
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wrong choice for you to make?
You must trust.
You must have faith.
When you speak of trust the moresurprised I am that the community hasn't
risen up and said that Goody Rebecca isa woman that has healed people and she's
involved in the church and she's involvedwith the community and she's done good.
(19:14):
This is not an evil woman that has spent71 years of her life hurting people.
Has the community had a reactionto you being accused and jailed?
Oh yes, , in the month of May of thisyear of 1692, my dear husband, Francis
Nurse, circulated a petition amongst ourneighbors, attesting that I am indeed
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a woman of good faith, and that I didgive live birth to eleven children
and raised eight of those children up.
And in my old age.
I took in a child, a boy, who had beenabandoned by his family had run off.
I took in that boy, andI raised that child also.
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He circulated this petition.
Thirty nine persons of good faithsigned that petition on my behalf.
It was brought before themagistrates, and they showed
mercy upon me, and I was released.
to the custody of my husband.
(20:27):
But then, shortly thereafter, moreaccusations were brought forth,
more testimony was brought forthto the attention of the magistrates
and the jurors, and I was againarrested and chained and bound over.
(20:48):
And the warrant now has beenissued for my execution.
I had great hopes thatI would be released.
But it was not to be andI must accept my fate.
It is God's plan.
Goody Rebecca, did you sayearlier that your sister
confessed that she was a witch?
(21:11):
Yes.
, and is Mary scheduled to be hanged?
Not at this time.
She was branded as a witch.
When I refer to as branded as awitch, you are branded with an iron.
A W is branded on the left sideof your face, on the cheek.
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And you are exiled from the colony.
she was shown mercy.
By the magistrates.
It is totally up to as to whetherthe magistrates and the jurors
believe in the truth, the veracityof that person, the truthfulness that
they show, and they will be shownmercy, or they will be shown mercy.
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if you were to confess, just for thepurpose of saving your life, you would
then be branded on your cheek, a permanentW on your cheek, and then you would
be thrown out of the community withoutyour family to survive on your own.
Is that correct?
Yes.
That would be the possibility.
And again, it would be up to thediscretion of the Magistrates and
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the jurors as to whether one istruthful, and if they determine that
you are not truthful and honest inyour confession, then you are not to
be believed for whatever reason, but
I will not speak that untruth.
I am not a witch, and Iwill not speak that untruth.
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. I will not speak that blasphemy.
. Do you think your sister is a witch?
No.
But , she could notwithstand the suffering.
She could simply not withstand it.
And I cannot I cannot abuse her in theway that she simply could not withstand
the pains and the sufferings and it wassomething she could not endure and she
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has decided and has been duly exiled.
I do not know what her life will be.
As to whether she will havesurvived, I do not know.
I am not a witch, and Icannot foresee the future.
Yes maybe we should ask Tituba, becausesince she can see the future, she
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could just tell us what happens next.
Yes I do believe that
she is a witch and has bewitched many,have a question about your husband
coming up with these 39 different reasonsand the community basically standing
on your behalf saying that you'renot a witch and you're a good person.
It seems like they had exhaustedevery possible method of proving
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that you were not a witch.
And then even after Convincingthe magistrate and then them
changing their mind again.
Once they've decided that you'rea witch, it seems that there is
no recourse, there's no methodfor you to prove your innocence.
, what else could be done toprove that you are not a witch?
(24:15):
, everything has been exhausted.
I have been questioned repeatedly.
I have given answers that were truthful.
I will not attest that I have committedany Crime against any other person
and it is up to the jury and to themagistrates and if they believe,
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for whatever reason, within theirhearts, within their minds, that I am
indeed a witch, I must accept that.
I will attest to the very endthat I am not a witch, but I
also must accept their judgment.
There are times when one must accept it.
It appears from a distance thatright now what is happening
(25:01):
in your time is hysteria.
And you were talking about how BridgetBishop had been accused, I think it was
Bridget Bishop, had been accused severaltimes, but , nobody did anything about it.
But now what we have is hysteria.
And Ann Putnam Jr.
is just pointing at everybody, andthere's, she's seeing specters everywhere.
(25:23):
And Titcheva is, same thing.
And I also understand that in othercommunities around yours, people
have started pointing at otherssaying that they are witches.
, is this just hysteria?
Is this rampant witchcraft?
Or is there something else at play,like, is there some, possibly some
sort of drug use that is happeningthat is causing this hysteria?
(25:47):
Is there anything else at play?
Perhaps you could explain to me thisword which I am not familiar with.
I do not understand the wordof uh, is that word hysteria?
Is that what you mean?
Yes.
I do not understand this.
, I do not conceive of it.
You can imagine If somebody just randomlystarted screaming in a large group of
(26:11):
people and then the next person startedscreaming and then pretty soon everybody
would be screaming and they wouldn'tknow why and it's just, it almost just
takes over, , it's like an overreaction.
Oh yes, now I understand.
I I have seen that.
I have seen that whileI was being questioned.
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Before the magistrates, when the girlswere seated in front of me, and I
answered the question honestly, and theywould mock me, and , one child would
begin to scream and , and to throw.
A fit and throwing herself upon thefloor and wrenching her clothes and
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crying out that I was biting themand that I was controlling them.
And I, one would see it as, as.
It went down to each child would followin suit and before long they had to
be carried from the meeting houseand to calm them, to soothe them.
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And I have seen this.
And it does appear to me that it hasgone to that point where all of these
accusations have simply, these rumors havesimply infested more and more families,
and they look even at one another, motherlooks at father, and they look at one
(27:37):
another, at the possibility that theyindeed are a witch, and they look at their
children, are their children bewitched,and they look at their neighbors, And I do
believe that it has gone through so many.
It has gone from Salem, it has goneto Andover, to Beverly to points
beyond, to Boston Town, to all ofthese different towns and villages.
(28:04):
And settlements.
It has continued.
It seems to me when one sees theillness of bleeding and when the
plague took over so much in England.
When I was a young child, and onewould see that , it leapt from
(28:24):
city to town to village and evento the most remote settlements.
And that is what has happened with thishorror of searching for riches for in
England and Scotland and other placeswhere witch finders are brought forth.
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And that is what thesechildren have become.
Witch finders.
They have been taken from place toplace loaded into a cart and taken
from place to point out who inAndover or who in Beverly or whatever
settlement, who are the witches.
(29:07):
And these children arebelieved, and it's fear.
These children have created.
Fear and suspicion within families,within small towns, within villages,
within every settlement they have created.
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Such a fear, and.
It will be our undoing.
If we cannot take holdof it, then we must stop.
If it takes my death to bring this toa halt, I shall Willingly go to that
hangman's noose if it will bring an end.
(29:50):
How can this stop though?
What you're describing is nothingless than a fire being spread by
wind from one building to the next.
What do you think is going nextconsidering what has already happened?
I do believe that perhaps, likea fire that has been set upon
in one barn, it will consume allin its path, and when there is
(30:17):
nothing left to burn, it will stop.
And I fear that this fire is burningas such virulence, such heat, that
it will indeed perhaps destroy.
These colonies in the new world of NewEngland, and it will not stop until all
(30:40):
is consumed in its path, and I'm hoping,and I do, as a woman of good faith, I
pray it will consume them to a point whenthey say there is nothing left to consume,
and someone perhaps will stand forth andsay, Now, we have found the core, we have
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rooted out the last witch, we have rootedout the devil's own within our homes,
within our hearths, and we must stop.
And if it takes my death, Picture ofwhat you describe and the fierceness
(31:28):
of this fire that is spreading thisthis witchcraft that is spreading
this hunt for every single last witch.
I wonder if perhaps being hanged tomorrowis a boon rather than a curse considering
what you would have to look forward tobased on how hot this fire is burning.
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Understand that this is what I must face.
I do not fear it any longer.
It was determined on this day that I wasguilty of the practice of witchcraft.
I could not stop the warrant formy execution to be handed down.
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And on the morrow in the company of fourother women, I shall be taken from this
place and they're to be hanged is allwitchcraft bad or are there good witches?
No, there is white magic, which I havebeen accused when I have healed that.
Perhaps I use white magic.
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Many of the savages, the tribesaround us, they have white magic
in which they can heal the sick.
And so there is that part of beyond thehuman understanding in which we can heal.
We can help those who are in suffering.
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And so there are those who, I supposeyou might understand them to be
white witches, that they are good.
And that they can heal and thatthey can soothe with perhaps their
potions, their selves, their ointments.
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And I suppose, in a way, I looked atmyself over the years that I have indeed
helped those along the way, bringinga child into the world who is, has the
vigor of life, is sacred, and perhaps.
That will continue, that those who havethose gifts will continue to help those
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who suffer, but there will always be evil.
It is within the life of a human beingthat we have this evil around us.
Judy, Rebecca, you have an abilityto heal that not all people have.
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It is a skill that you've developed,, that you've learned from your mother,
and you have healed many people, and youare good with . These roots and these
selves and so forth, as you've discussed,is it possible that you do have some
power that a white witch may have?
Maybe you are a white witch, but youdon't know it because this is what
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it feels like to have that power?
I do not know that I havegreat power in my lifetime.
I have learned, again, at my mother'sknee, I have learned to heal and to help.
And I see myself as a person who perhapsdoes have that within my soul, within
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my being, that I am able to find.
core, the source of the suffering ofanother person, or even a creature,
a dog or a cat, and perhaps it isall within the view of another.
I believe there are those persons, bothmen and women, who will do harm to others
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for their own gain, or perhaps the Folly,the sport of harming another, and I,
in my respect, I find it a pleasure.
I find it not a folly,but I find satisfaction, I
(35:39):
think, perhaps is the word.
I am pleased when theoutcome is a good one.
I am not pleased in myself, but I ampleased that I have Some ability to aid
and to ease the suffering of another,and I think perhaps I see my own death
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will ease the suffering of another andwill bring this time to a close sooner.
Perhaps one more death will bring itto an end, it'll bring the folly.
There's a man in our time thathas become very well known.
(36:25):
You might even say famous.
And his name is John Proctor.
He's a man in your time.
Are you familiar with Mr.
Proctor and his wife?
I think , her name is Elizabeth,? Elizabeth Proctor, yes.
. Are you familiar with them?
There are many proctors.
There are several in the parametersof the, of Massachusetts Colony.
(36:48):
Have either of them beenaccused of witchcraft?
Yes.
It will rise to a higher level, Ifeel, before this fire burns out.
I feel it will go to a much higher level.
I have seen it as a young child.
I have seen it in England whenit rose and rose until there were
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those in the very highest levelswho could not control it any longer.
And I think the proctors thereare some who would do evil and they
have been accused of that also.
Do you think that either ofthem are witches or wizards?
No, I do not.
I think they have done evil,but I do not believe it is
(37:31):
because of their great powers.
Do you think the Proctors have done evil?
Could you tell me about that?
I think that they have persecuted attimes their neighbors , for their gain.
They have used such practicesto gain land and to gain wealth.
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And it is not that they are evil, it isthat they Do not have a , conscious, I
think it is, to control their lust forpower and their lust for gain, if they
are not persons that I think highly of.
I am becoming very tired, and I mustbe at my very best to face the morning.
(38:19):
Okay.
I think we'll definitely wrap this up.
And I appreciate.
All of this time that you havegiven me I feel like it is much
clearer to us what is happening.
Any last words you'd like to say aboutwhat is happening or what you would
hope would happen, any thoughts at all?
I think we must understand that whathas happened here in His Majesty's
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Royal Colony of Massachusetts, I do notbelieve it was so much the wickedness of
witchcraft, of the black arts, but perhapsthe wickedness within the hearts of many,
the lust for power, the lust for other.
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Joys of the flesh, the lust for land,to gain at the expense of others.
It is within ourselves and not awitch, whether the witch be of white
or black magic, but to control thoseevil urges, the sins of the flesh, the
(39:27):
sins of lust and gluttony and avarice,and not to do harm to one another.
That is the first, absolute forevery person who is a God fearing
person of faith is not to do harm.
And that is what I would like tohave as a, perhaps a legacy, is not
(39:52):
to do harm and to be remembered.
That I did not do harm, but Iwas accused and I held fast.
I would not speak an untruth and tocontrol those urges, the evil that
people do within themselves and harm.
(40:15):
That is not black magic.
That is within each person's soul.
Judy, Rebecca, I can assure you thatyour wish for that legacy does come true.
I wish you the best, I hope thattomorrow is as easy as a terrible thing,
can be, and my best wishes to you.
(40:38):
I thank you, good sir.
Good day.
The witch trials would last about a yearand it wasn't long before the community
and those who orchestrated the sham trialsrealized their mistake and attempted to
distance themselves from the whole event.
This failure of law and dueprocess changed the world.
After the trial, spectral evidencewas no longer accepted as proof.
(40:59):
Many years later, during the creationof the United States legal system, they
used this error to ensure that thosebeing tried were innocent until proven
guilty instead of the other way around.
Although Salem made every attempt to sweepthe tragedy under the rug in the late
1690s, that is not what they're doing now.
When we were visiting Salem afew years ago, half the women,
(41:21):
I met claim to be witches.
Tours and museums make it possible for youto visit many of these sites yet the site
they call Proctor's ledge and its Memorialof the hangings is in fact not the actual
site where the hangings took place.
One of the guides told us thatwe should not go to the actual
site and that it was not marked.
(41:41):
I pushed him for the location, but herefused saying it was too dangerous.
Especially at night.
Nonetheless the internet saved theday we parked behind a Walgreens
that backed up to a small one acreforested area in the center of town.
We hiked up this steep hill andin the middle of these trees, we
found a small circle of stones.
(42:03):
Lots of footprints and a burned out fire
containing the remains.
And the bones of a small animal.
This spot was where theactual hanging took place.
We didn't hang around much longer,but I will never forget what it
felt like to stand on that hill.
Thanks for listening.
And if you enjoyed this episode,subscribe now I'm Tony Dean.
(42:24):
And until next time I'm history.
Welcome back to part two of Rebecca nurse.
In the last episode, we heard aboutthe evil creature that was Tituba.
We talked about thetwelve-year-old and Putnam Jr.
Making accusations with onlyspectral evidence and why men of
the law were handling these issuesrather than men of the cloth.
In this episode, Rebecca willtalk about the absurd requirements
(00:51):
to prove her innocence after beingaccused of witchcraft and her sister who
was branded and exiled after confessing,even though Rebecca was absolutely
certain that she was not a witch.
Out of the women who have beenaccused so far, or the men, Which
of them have confessed that theyhave participated in witchcraft?
(01:14):
There are some who have.
My own sister Mary has confessed.
But it is dependent upon asto whether they will be shown
mercy by the magistrates.
And some will be shown mercy.
I will not confess tothis under any duress.
I will not confess.
(01:35):
I have been taken aside withothers and we have been placed.
We were taken to a barn.
Our arms were tethered behind our backs.
The ropes were swung over the beamin the barn and we were hoisted
into the air near inches fromthe floor and we were questioned.
(01:57):
But I could not speak these untruths.
Some cannot withstand such tortures,and they will confess, and perhaps
the magistrates will show their mercy.
At this point, I believe someonehas related to me that 162 persons
(02:18):
have been brought before themagistrates, and there will be more.
And I can never put aside thedeath of that one child who starved
to death in that summer of 1692.
I shall face tomorrow, for I cansay before my Eternal Father,
(02:38):
That I am innocent, and I knowthat God will clear my innocence.
There are a lot of people thatare also saying that they're
innocent, both men and women.
If 162 people have been arrested,and if they're being arrested on
spectral evidence, Can you tellme what spectral evidence is?
(03:03):
Can just any person look into thesky and say they see a, specter
or a demon or a devil, and thenthey can condemn another person?
I suppose that is rather a simpleway to place that argument.
But yes, one can report that theyhave seen Goody, Rebecca, Nurse,
(03:23):
fly upon an object across the moon.
Or that perhaps upon tappingthe head of a neighbor's cow,
the cow would die within a day.
Or the argument that I had in thepast with a neighbor when his pig
rooted up my garden, and withinthe year this gentleman was dead.
(03:49):
That could be used against me.
That I had perhaps put a spell uponhim that he should die within the year.
And I have no way of proving otherwise.
You see, it is incumbent upon the personwho is arrested to prove their innocence.
(04:09):
The court of Oye and Determinerdoes not have to prove my guilt.
I must prove my innocence.
And perhaps it will be my death inwhich I will prove that I am innocent.
For I have not betrayed.
My belief, my faith, . And perhapsI shall proven innocent by my death.
(04:36):
Goody Rebecca, in your time, I want,I'm going to put a scenario in front
of you, and I'm wondering in yourtime if I'm reading this correctly.
Reverend Parris , is he a good man?
I do not believe so.
I do not believe he isworthy of his position.
I do not believe thathis judgment is pure.
(04:56):
I do not believe that his heart is ispure, that he is a man of good faith.
I could not speak such in public.
I could not declare this withinthe Meeting House that my feelings
toward him, that I see him as a weakman who is not true to his faith.
(05:16):
I could not speak this public.
. That's actually perfect for thequestion that I want to ask you,
because you do not feel that he isa man deserving of his position.
It is also my understanding that thebeginning of all of this was when his
child got sick and then didn't get better.
(05:36):
And then , as that child is nothealing, then a doctor comes in
and says this child is bewitched.
Is my understanding correct that if youwere to then say, whether it were true
or not, which I know you would never dothis, but if you were to say, because
you don't like him, And you don't thinkhe's deserving of his position, that you
(05:58):
saw him cast a spell on his daughter.
That would be enough evidenceto condemn him unless he
could prove that was not true.
Is that correct?
Yes.
Yes.
It is indeed correct.
Again, we must see that he is a man who isin a more powerful position than myself.
(06:21):
I am a woman.
I am an older woman.
And I do not have thepower of his position.
And this, quite honestly, is adreadful place in which I find myself.
And I will not speak an untruth.
I will not say that I have flownupon an object when the moon is high,
(06:46):
or that I have bewitched a child.
I would not harm a child.
I would not harm a dumb beast, butit is a matter of what is believed
by some and what is believed byothers and what is not believed.
And the magistrates, the jury, theywill believe and have believed that
(07:08):
I have bewitched persons, that I haveinjured persons, and I am not in power.
I am not a woman with power.
There is no such thing.
Women do not have power.
That power is granted only to men.
I find it interesting that there aren't asmany witches or warlocks that are either
(07:33):
in strong political positions, at somelevel of status, and are men in power.
It's interesting how somehow warlocks justnever seem to make it to those people.
Yes, it is.
I think it is rather interestingthat when one is without power One
is, would the word be powerless?
(07:57):
When one is powerless, one is moreapt to be accused of wrongdoing,
such as Sarah Osborne, becauseshe has become an irritant.
others in Salem are angry and tiredof having to support this very
old person who can no longer work.
(08:18):
She is nearly blind anddeaf, bent over with age.
And perhaps they are simply tired ofhaving to support and help this woman.
For the belief is that if one cannot workand one cannot support oneself, then one
perhaps is not worthy of life itself.
(08:40):
That's incredible.
It seems to me that Tituba and AnnPutnam Jr., that if anybody was going
to be executed and or accused ofwitchcraft, it would be these two.
, it just seems like these two started mostof either the rumors or the accusations,
(09:02):
whatever you want to call them.
Has Tichuba been arrested?
Is she in any sort of trouble?
What about Anne?
the creature she was arrested.
Very early on, and she camebefore the magistrates.
I must use some, Isuppose, unseemly language.
(09:23):
She came to them with herfeet and legs were exposed.
And she came before the magistrates,and for three days, she told them
these stories about this devil's book,about her flights over the countryside.
And I think The magistrates believedher, but they also feared her.
(09:50):
They feared that she had great power,that she had great mystical power, that
she indeed could not be simply silenced.
And they were very afraid of her.
And so she again was left in thecustody of her master, the Reverend.
(10:12):
Samuel Parris, and I think themagistrates and the jurors involved
were simply very frightened of Tichupa.
They were too frightenedto even approach her.
But again, she is a slave.
She is a, one might say a, a, Disposableperson, a person of little consequence.
(10:38):
What do you think would happen if Titubawere to, and I think you're leading
to this, but if Tituba was to be verydirect and say to the magistrates that I
am a witch, I know who the witches are,and if I'm imprisoned I will kill every
one of you and all of your families.
What would happen?
(10:59):
I believe, perhaps, she may have spokensuch words, that she may have threatened
that if they were to harm her, thatshe had powers within her reach, that
she had the power of the Black Prince,and that they may indeed be found to be
(11:20):
injured, or illness would strike them.
I was accused of perhaps strikingsomeone dead because of an
incident that occurred with a pig.
But I indeed swore that I Ihad no such indication that I
would hurt someone in that way.
I would not.
(11:42):
But the man died within a year.
And perhaps Tituba was forceful.
They were frightened of her.
Her appearance is very exotic,something that we do not see very
often in Puritan Massachusetts.
Her nakedness her, her dress,her manner dancing about.
(12:07):
I think that perhaps she frightenedthe magistrates and the jury.
To say perhaps we should nottouch such a powerful witch.
I, on the other hand, may nothave that power in their eyes.
Do you believe that Titubacan fly and cast spells?
Yes.
There are those who arepowerful witches and wizards.
(12:31):
And there are those who can perform suchfeats as to fly over the countryside.
Or to injure someone without never layinga hand upon them to cast a spell, to bring
illness, to bring death to a household.
Yes, that is part of what I have livedwith from the time I was a child in
(12:56):
those very early years was I relatedabout the great devil dog who would rise
up out of the sea when I was a childin Greater Yarmouth in East Anglia.
I believe those things have happened,and they are part of our belief.
In this year of our Lord, 1692,and we must accept them as true.
(13:20):
I still find it very strangethat the powerful people
are not witches or warlocks.
And I'm wondering if you might havesome thoughts about whether or not some
of the more powerful people in societyperhaps are witches or warlocks and
have maybe used those powers to rise.
to those higher levels, but perhapsare better at concealing the
(13:45):
fact that they have these powers.
What are your thoughts on that?
I think they're verywell maybe assured for.
There are those who are more powerfuland perhaps they have risen to that
level because of their powers becauseof their alignment with the Dark Prince.
And I am sure.
(14:05):
That I am weaker, I am, I'm not capable ofthese things I fear them greatly, and I do
believe that there are some who may have,indeed, signed the devil's book in their
own blood, and who are now in great power.
(14:25):
Many of the bishops, perhaps, that,that have ruled for so many years in,
in England, and have made many suffer.
Under their stringent laws,perhaps they too are part of a
greater circle of the devil's own.
(14:47):
perhaps indeed there are wickedpersons who are of a very high level.
But I also believe that many are doingwhat they think perhaps is right.
And I, I cannot question why the Lord hasplaced this difficulty upon my shoulders.
(15:07):
At this very late time in my life,but I also must accept it, but we
must also realize and understandin belief and faith that there are
some who have the full grace of Godwithin them and others who do not.
And that is not something thatone can choose for oneself.
(15:32):
It is predetermined as to whether wehave the full grace of God within us.
And we must strive and hope andpray that we have that within us.
But there are those who mayabuse their power, whether it
was brought to them rightfully orwhether because of the black arts.
(15:54):
It is beyond my understanding, perhaps.
I've heard that you, have some healingabilities or some skills in this area.
Is there some truth to that?
Yes, I learning at my mother's knee,I have the knowledge of roots and
(16:16):
herbs and plants that I have alsoavailed myself of over the years.
I have never I have never done harm toanyone, and I would never injure anyone.
I have been there during the timeof a woman's travail, and I have
aided her travail by the means ofherbs and plants that I have learned
(16:40):
throughout the years and with myexperience and with the knowledge
from my own mother, Joanna Towne.
I have given help to those who needit, but I have never done harm, and I
would never harm person nor a beast.
I have indeed cured theailments of beasts in the past.
(17:04):
When a cow perhaps has dried andwill not give milk, I have aided.
By means of using herbs and plants,I have helped, as I say, in during a
woman's travail, I have aided to bringthe child forth and have a live birth.
And I have practicedthese arts to help others.
(17:27):
Never to harm.
It seems that mixing roots and findingberries and coming up with different
potions and concoctions to healpeople or ointments or selves however
you would put it, it seems like thatwould be dangerous in your time.
' cause how would somebody know ifwhat you were mixing up . Whether
(17:50):
there was malintent or not.
One takes it upon faith.
For the most of my life, I haveknown to be a woman of good faith.
Many of my neighbors could attest that Iwas a woman of good faith all my years.
And one must put trust in one another.
(18:10):
And there are times when itis important for those around
you, if you extend your help.
For If you wish to help them, they musttrust that you will do them no harm.
Perhaps if a physician comes to you andwishes to bleed you, and you fear that
(18:31):
he is going to harm you in his efforts.
And as a result of your refusal,that he bleeds you and you
indeed die within a few days.
Is he then at fault?
Or is the choice that you decidednot to be bled, was that a
(18:52):
wrong choice for you to make?
You must trust.
You must have faith.
When you speak of trust the moresurprised I am that the community hasn't
risen up and said that Goody Rebecca isa woman that has healed people and she's
involved in the church and she's involvedwith the community and she's done good.
(19:14):
This is not an evil woman that has spent71 years of her life hurting people.
Has the community had a reactionto you being accused and jailed?
Oh yes, , in the month of May of thisyear of 1692, my dear husband, Francis
Nurse, circulated a petition amongst ourneighbors, attesting that I am indeed
(19:41):
a woman of good faith, and that I didgive live birth to eleven children
and raised eight of those children up.
And in my old age.
I took in a child, a boy, who had beenabandoned by his family had run off.
I took in that boy, andI raised that child also.
(20:05):
He circulated this petition.
Thirty nine persons of good faithsigned that petition on my behalf.
It was brought before themagistrates, and they showed
mercy upon me, and I was released.
to the custody of my husband.
(20:27):
But then, shortly thereafter, moreaccusations were brought forth,
more testimony was brought forthto the attention of the magistrates
and the jurors, and I was againarrested and chained and bound over.
(20:48):
And the warrant now has beenissued for my execution.
I had great hopes thatI would be released.
But it was not to be andI must accept my fate.
It is God's plan.
Goody Rebecca, did you sayearlier that your sister
confessed that she was a witch?
(21:11):
Yes.
, and is Mary scheduled to be hanged?
Not at this time.
She was branded as a witch.
When I refer to as branded as awitch, you are branded with an iron.
A W is branded on the left sideof your face, on the cheek.
(21:32):
And you are exiled from the colony.
she was shown mercy.
By the magistrates.
It is totally up to as to whetherthe magistrates and the jurors
believe in the truth, the veracityof that person, the truthfulness that
they show, and they will be shownmercy, or they will be shown mercy.
(21:58):
if you were to confess, just for thepurpose of saving your life, you would
then be branded on your cheek, a permanentW on your cheek, and then you would
be thrown out of the community withoutyour family to survive on your own.
Is that correct?
Yes.
That would be the possibility.
And again, it would be up to thediscretion of the Magistrates and
(22:23):
the jurors as to whether one istruthful, and if they determine that
you are not truthful and honest inyour confession, then you are not to
be believed for whatever reason, but
I will not speak that untruth.
I am not a witch, and Iwill not speak that untruth.
(22:46):
. I will not speak that blasphemy.
. Do you think your sister is a witch?
No.
But , she could notwithstand the suffering.
She could simply not withstand it.
And I cannot I cannot abuse her in theway that she simply could not withstand
the pains and the sufferings and it wassomething she could not endure and she
(23:13):
has decided and has been duly exiled.
I do not know what her life will be.
As to whether she will havesurvived, I do not know.
I am not a witch, and Icannot foresee the future.
Yes maybe we should ask Tituba, becausesince she can see the future, she
(23:34):
could just tell us what happens next.
Yes I do believe that
she is a witch and has bewitched many,have a question about your husband
coming up with these 39 different reasonsand the community basically standing
on your behalf saying that you'renot a witch and you're a good person.
It seems like they had exhaustedevery possible method of proving
(23:54):
that you were not a witch.
And then even after Convincingthe magistrate and then them
changing their mind again.
Once they've decided that you'rea witch, it seems that there is
no recourse, there's no methodfor you to prove your innocence.
, what else could be done toprove that you are not a witch?
(24:15):
, everything has been exhausted.
I have been questioned repeatedly.
I have given answers that were truthful.
I will not attest that I have committedany Crime against any other person
and it is up to the jury and to themagistrates and if they believe,
(24:39):
for whatever reason, within theirhearts, within their minds, that I am
indeed a witch, I must accept that.
I will attest to the very endthat I am not a witch, but I
also must accept their judgment.
There are times when one must accept it.
It appears from a distance thatright now what is happening
(25:01):
in your time is hysteria.
And you were talking about how BridgetBishop had been accused, I think it was
Bridget Bishop, had been accused severaltimes, but , nobody did anything about it.
But now what we have is hysteria.
And Ann Putnam Jr.
is just pointing at everybody, andthere's, she's seeing specters everywhere.
(25:23):
And Titcheva is, same thing.
And I also understand that in othercommunities around yours, people
have started pointing at otherssaying that they are witches.
, is this just hysteria?
Is this rampant witchcraft?
Or is there something else at play,like, is there some, possibly some
sort of drug use that is happeningthat is causing this hysteria?
(25:47):
Is there anything else at play?
Perhaps you could explain to me thisword which I am not familiar with.
I do not understand the wordof uh, is that word hysteria?
Is that what you mean?
Yes.
I do not understand this.
, I do not conceive of it.
You can imagine If somebody just randomlystarted screaming in a large group of
(26:11):
people and then the next person startedscreaming and then pretty soon everybody
would be screaming and they wouldn'tknow why and it's just, it almost just
takes over, , it's like an overreaction.
Oh yes, now I understand.
I I have seen that.
I have seen that whileI was being questioned.
(26:32):
Before the magistrates, when the girlswere seated in front of me, and I
answered the question honestly, and theywould mock me, and , one child would
begin to scream and , and to throw.
A fit and throwing herself upon thefloor and wrenching her clothes and
(26:53):
crying out that I was biting themand that I was controlling them.
And I, one would see it as, as.
It went down to each child would followin suit and before long they had to
be carried from the meeting houseand to calm them, to soothe them.
(27:14):
And I have seen this.
And it does appear to me that it hasgone to that point where all of these
accusations have simply, these rumors havesimply infested more and more families,
and they look even at one another, motherlooks at father, and they look at one
(27:37):
another, at the possibility that theyindeed are a witch, and they look at their
children, are their children bewitched,and they look at their neighbors, And I do
believe that it has gone through so many.
It has gone from Salem, it has goneto Andover, to Beverly to points
beyond, to Boston Town, to all ofthese different towns and villages.
(28:04):
And settlements.
It has continued.
It seems to me when one sees theillness of bleeding and when the
plague took over so much in England.
When I was a young child, and onewould see that , it leapt from
(28:24):
city to town to village and evento the most remote settlements.
And that is what has happened with thishorror of searching for riches for in
England and Scotland and other placeswhere witch finders are brought forth.
(28:46):
And that is what thesechildren have become.
Witch finders.
They have been taken from place toplace loaded into a cart and taken
from place to point out who inAndover or who in Beverly or whatever
settlement, who are the witches.
(29:07):
And these children arebelieved, and it's fear.
These children have created.
Fear and suspicion within families,within small towns, within villages,
within every settlement they have created.
(29:28):
Such a fear, and.
It will be our undoing.
If we cannot take holdof it, then we must stop.
If it takes my death to bring this toa halt, I shall Willingly go to that
hangman's noose if it will bring an end.
(29:50):
How can this stop though?
What you're describing is nothingless than a fire being spread by
wind from one building to the next.
What do you think is going nextconsidering what has already happened?
I do believe that perhaps, likea fire that has been set upon
in one barn, it will consume allin its path, and when there is
(30:17):
nothing left to burn, it will stop.
And I fear that this fire is burningas such virulence, such heat, that
it will indeed perhaps destroy.
These colonies in the new world of NewEngland, and it will not stop until all
(30:40):
is consumed in its path, and I'm hoping,and I do, as a woman of good faith, I
pray it will consume them to a point whenthey say there is nothing left to consume,
and someone perhaps will stand forth andsay, Now, we have found the core, we have
(31:07):
rooted out the last witch, we have rootedout the devil's own within our homes,
within our hearths, and we must stop.
And if it takes my death, Picture ofwhat you describe and the fierceness
(31:28):
of this fire that is spreading thisthis witchcraft that is spreading
this hunt for every single last witch.
I wonder if perhaps being hanged tomorrowis a boon rather than a curse considering
what you would have to look forward tobased on how hot this fire is burning.
(31:49):
Understand that this is what I must face.
I do not fear it any longer.
It was determined on this day that I wasguilty of the practice of witchcraft.
I could not stop the warrant formy execution to be handed down.
(32:10):
And on the morrow in the company of fourother women, I shall be taken from this
place and they're to be hanged is allwitchcraft bad or are there good witches?
No, there is white magic, which I havebeen accused when I have healed that.
Perhaps I use white magic.
(32:31):
Many of the savages, the tribesaround us, they have white magic
in which they can heal the sick.
And so there is that part of beyond thehuman understanding in which we can heal.
We can help those who are in suffering.
(32:53):
And so there are those who, I supposeyou might understand them to be
white witches, that they are good.
And that they can heal and thatthey can soothe with perhaps their
potions, their selves, their ointments.
(33:13):
And I suppose, in a way, I looked atmyself over the years that I have indeed
helped those along the way, bringinga child into the world who is, has the
vigor of life, is sacred, and perhaps.
That will continue, that those who havethose gifts will continue to help those
(33:38):
who suffer, but there will always be evil.
It is within the life of a human beingthat we have this evil around us.
Judy, Rebecca, you have an abilityto heal that not all people have.
(33:59):
It is a skill that you've developed,, that you've learned from your mother,
and you have healed many people, and youare good with . These roots and these
selves and so forth, as you've discussed,is it possible that you do have some
power that a white witch may have?
Maybe you are a white witch, but youdon't know it because this is what
(34:21):
it feels like to have that power?
I do not know that I havegreat power in my lifetime.
I have learned, again, at my mother'sknee, I have learned to heal and to help.
And I see myself as a person who perhapsdoes have that within my soul, within
(34:48):
my being, that I am able to find.
core, the source of the suffering ofanother person, or even a creature,
a dog or a cat, and perhaps it isall within the view of another.
I believe there are those persons, bothmen and women, who will do harm to others
(35:16):
for their own gain, or perhaps the Folly,the sport of harming another, and I,
in my respect, I find it a pleasure.
I find it not a folly,but I find satisfaction, I
(35:39):
think, perhaps is the word.
I am pleased when theoutcome is a good one.
I am not pleased in myself, but I ampleased that I have Some ability to aid
and to ease the suffering of another,and I think perhaps I see my own death
(36:01):
will ease the suffering of another andwill bring this time to a close sooner.
Perhaps one more death will bring itto an end, it'll bring the folly.
There's a man in our time thathas become very well known.
(36:25):
You might even say famous.
And his name is John Proctor.
He's a man in your time.
Are you familiar with Mr.
Proctor and his wife?
I think , her name is Elizabeth,? Elizabeth Proctor, yes.
. Are you familiar with them?
There are many proctors.
There are several in the parametersof the, of Massachusetts Colony.
(36:48):
Have either of them beenaccused of witchcraft?
Yes.
It will rise to a higher level, Ifeel, before this fire burns out.
I feel it will go to a much higher level.
I have seen it as a young child.
I have seen it in England whenit rose and rose until there were
(37:11):
those in the very highest levelswho could not control it any longer.
And I think the proctors thereare some who would do evil and they
have been accused of that also.
Do you think that either ofthem are witches or wizards?
No, I do not.
I think they have done evil,but I do not believe it is
(37:31):
because of their great powers.
Do you think the Proctors have done evil?
Could you tell me about that?
I think that they have persecuted attimes their neighbors , for their gain.
They have used such practicesto gain land and to gain wealth.
(37:52):
And it is not that they are evil, it isthat they Do not have a , conscious, I
think it is, to control their lust forpower and their lust for gain, if they
are not persons that I think highly of.
I am becoming very tired, and I mustbe at my very best to face the morning.
(38:19):
Okay.
I think we'll definitely wrap this up.
And I appreciate.
All of this time that you havegiven me I feel like it is much
clearer to us what is happening.
Any last words you'd like to say aboutwhat is happening or what you would
hope would happen, any thoughts at all?
I think we must understand that whathas happened here in His Majesty's
(38:41):
Royal Colony of Massachusetts, I do notbelieve it was so much the wickedness of
witchcraft, of the black arts, but perhapsthe wickedness within the hearts of many,
the lust for power, the lust for other.
(39:03):
Joys of the flesh, the lust for land,to gain at the expense of others.
It is within ourselves and not awitch, whether the witch be of white
or black magic, but to control thoseevil urges, the sins of the flesh, the
(39:27):
sins of lust and gluttony and avarice,and not to do harm to one another.
That is the first, absolute forevery person who is a God fearing
person of faith is not to do harm.
And that is what I would like tohave as a, perhaps a legacy, is not
(39:52):
to do harm and to be remembered.
That I did not do harm, but Iwas accused and I held fast.
I would not speak an untruth and tocontrol those urges, the evil that
people do within themselves and harm.
(40:15):
That is not black magic.
That is within each person's soul.
Judy, Rebecca, I can assure you thatyour wish for that legacy does come true.
I wish you the best, I hope thattomorrow is as easy as a terrible thing,
can be, and my best wishes to you.
(40:38):
I thank you, good sir.
Good day.
The witch trials would last about a yearand it wasn't long before the community
and those who orchestrated the sham trialsrealized their mistake and attempted to
distance themselves from the whole event.
This failure of law and dueprocess changed the world.
After the trial, spectral evidencewas no longer accepted as proof.
(40:59):
Many years later, during the creationof the United States legal system, they
used this error to ensure that thosebeing tried were innocent until proven
guilty instead of the other way around.
Although Salem made every attempt to sweepthe tragedy under the rug in the late
1690s, that is not what they're doing now.
When we were visiting Salem afew years ago, half the women,
(41:21):
I met claim to be witches.
Tours and museums make it possible for youto visit many of these sites yet the site
they call Proctor's ledge and its Memorialof the hangings is in fact not the actual
site where the hangings took place.
One of the guides told us thatwe should not go to the actual
site and that it was not marked.
(41:41):
I pushed him for the location, but herefused saying it was too dangerous.
Especially at night.
Nonetheless the internet saved theday we parked behind a Walgreens
that backed up to a small one acreforested area in the center of town.
We hiked up this steep hill andin the middle of these trees, we
found a small circle of stones.
(42:03):
Lots of footprints and a burned out fire
containing the remains.
And the bones of a small animal.
This spot was where theactual hanging took place.
We didn't hang around much longer,but I will never forget what it
felt like to stand on that hill.
Thanks for listening.
And if you enjoyed this episode,subscribe now I'm Tony Dean.
(42:24):
And until next time I'm history.
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