A BBC Poet Chef! Survival, Life Affirmation and You.

David Attree is a ‘people’s poet,’ he’s also known as a ‘Poet-Chef,’ ‘Famous Dave,’ and more recently as the voice of the ‘Week in Words,’ aired on BBC Radio across three counties. His poetry is also currently on buses in the city of Brighton, known internationally as a centre of creativity. But fame isn’t what interests Dave, it’s connection; it’s you. Dave’s BBC, on-air introduction, was clear from the start: “I’m not writing for a crowd.” He’s interested in every individual that makes up a community. He finds “hope in disguise” and he takes “the time to measure what really counts.” Dave “links news and stories with poems and rhymes,” he creates a calm space where we can stop and think and even Time can rest a while. Dave is also an active poet in other ways; he walks and cycles for charitable causes, he speaks up, with us and for us. He’s also a funeral celebrant. He celebrates a person’s life as though he has always known them, with the skill and insight that poets possess. And what lies behind it all? Courage. Dave knows tragedy and fear, he’s had life-saving surgery that sadly, many don’t make and he’s also recovered from a stroke. Through all this he serves the value of life, for all of us and he champions his amazing, para-Olympian daughter too. This is a family that isn’t shy of beating the odds. Dave lets you know you are heard amongst all the noise, he invites you to pause and I’m sure, like me, you’ll feel, you’ve always known him too.

Series Audio Editor - Joey Quan.

Series Music - Courtesy of Barry J. Gibb

Closed Captions are added to all interviews in this series. Read only, text versions of every interview, news, reviews and your host are here: www.canartsaveus.com

Discover Dave Attree on BBC Sounds. The Week in Words and other clips with Dave are uploaded here as part of the Allison Ferns, Sunday Breakfast Show: www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p001d7v5/clips

Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Welcome to this podcastseries asking the question Can
art save us? I'm starting thefirst national and international
conversation about courage andcuriosity. What do these
qualities really mean? And whydoes it make a big difference to
our mental, societal anddemocratic health? I talk to
award winning and diverseartists across the arts to

(00:24):
explore these qualities in theirlives and work, both to inspire
and for us all to learn. I'mexploring why we need these
qualities to help change theglobal epidemic of mental
illness, loneliness,polarization of our communities,
and even global conflicts. Ifthe arts cultivate courage and
curiosity, I'm asking thequestion, Can art save us? Have

(00:50):
you ever unexpectedly had aconversation with someone that
you've never met before? But it'sas though, you've always known
them, their heart isn't just ontheir sleeve, it's front and
center. In fact, it's handed toyou still beating whilst their
stories unravel, and poetry isin motion. That's what happens

(01:11):
when I met my guest today, agifted poet David Attree. I
think of Dave as a People'sPoet. He's also known as a Poet
Chef, Famous Dave, and morerecently, as the voice of the
Week in Words aired on BBC Radioacross three counties. You will
also see his poetry on buses inthe city of Brighton, known

(01:36):
internationally as a center ofcreativity. But fame isn't what
interests Dave its connection.It's you. Dave's BBC on air
introduction was clear from thestart. "I'm not writing for a
crowd." He's interested in everyindividual that makes up a

(01:56):
community. He finds "hope indisguise," and he takes the time
to measure what really counts.Dave links news and stories with
poems and rhymes. He creates acalm space where we can stop and
think and even time can rest awhile. Dave is also an active

(02:18):
poet in other ways, he walks andcycles for charitable causes. He
speaks up with us and for us.He's also a funeral celebrant.
And is it any wonder? Compassiontumbles out of Dave so fast, I
doubt his poetry can keep up. Hecelebrates the person's life, as
though he has always known themwith the skill and insight that

(02:41):
poets possess, and what liesbehind it all? Courage, Dave
knows tragedy and fear. He's hadlife saving surgery that sadly,
many don't make. And he's alsorecovered from a stroke. Through
all this, he serves the value oflife for all of us. And he
champions his amazing paraOlympian daughter too. This is a

(03:04):
family that isn't shy of beatingthe odds. Dave, lets you know,
you are heard amongst all thenoise, he invites you to pause
and I'm sure like me, you'llfeel you've always known him too.
Hello, Dave. Hello.
I like the sound of me.

(03:27):
I like this sound of you.
I say that was zero ego. It'sjust actually it's just a little
reminder of things I do and howI how I think and this is
absolutely that kind of examplethat when we when we chatted
when we first met, I just yeah,there was a little connection.
I'm like, I think you kind ofget me and what I stand for. And
absolutely, I'm getting thatfeel from you. It's fantastic.

(03:50):
I'm so so happy to be chattingto you. Yeah, it's lovely.
And thank you for making thetime because it's it is so nice,
isn't it when chat andconversation is so easy. And I
think we've said before it's asad thing that the art of
conversation is disappearing. Wedon't really chat much or chat

(04:11):
to each other anymore. Yeah,
I think that you know that thiswithout sounding too clichéd. I
think with social media andthings like that. Everything's
kind of soundbites andheadlines. And you know, kind of
the old elevator pitch 30seconds that feels like
I don't know, a kind ofWar and Peace now, isn't it?
Everything has to be condensed,you have to catch somebody's
eye, get a point across, move onbang, because people are just

(04:34):
scrolling, scrolling, scrolling.And I just think the art of
conversation, it's just such anatural thing. It's a primeval
thing, right? We used to gatheraround a fire. And there used to
be somebody sat there that wasvery good at telling stories and
they were kind of venerated andand kind of held a lot in
society as somebody that likeshared information and you could
kind of go to and kind of shareshare a discourse with and chat

(04:57):
and learn from and, andeverything. Interaction any
conversation that you have withwith somebody that you already
know really well, or you've justmet for the first time? You can
learn something from them, andyou can share things. And yeah,
it's just conversation alwaysfascinates me. I am and I've
said before, I'm that guy on thetrain that chats to people.
Because I'm just like, why wouldyou not? There are stories

(05:19):
swirling around us all over theplace. And it's just like, I
just love finding them.
Yeah, and it's just suchimportant stuff for social
cohesion in a sense ofcommunity, isn't it? 100%.
Yeah, and no doubt. you'vecommented, in terms of your

(05:39):
Week in Words, only just thismorning for BBC regional radio,
and I wondered what you may havereflected on today. Yeah,
well, today, thewhole premise of the week in
words, originally, when the BBCreached out to me that they've
fairplay to them, they've givenme just kind of carte blanche
and said, actually just recordsomething for us, we trust you.

(06:02):
Yeah, I appreciate there arecertain parameters, it can't be
political, it can't be, naturally, it can't be kind of
provocative or anything likethat. And that's not me anyway.
So. But the idea was it wasto kind of do a bit of a review
of the the weekly news inSurrey, and Sussex and Kent and
maybe further afield. But when Iwas sitting down to actually

(06:22):
gather stories and look atthings, there was a weight to
everything that I was reading, andit was kind of kind of crushing,
really, because the news storieswhere you could argue, since
kind of 2016, when somethingsignificant happened, actually,
global events in the last kindof two, three years have just
been so tragic and sad. And andwe're now hearing numbers rather

(06:46):
than names of people that are nolonger around. And that's the
the count, you know, like we hadduring lockdown, it was like the
daily figures, here, these areindividuals that are no longer
here. So that was it was quite awhile it was and it was quite
hard to, to write about that ona weekly basis. And I was
thinking, Well, I can't ignoreit. You can't you can't have a

(07:07):
Week in Words feature and notaddress what's been happening in
the world. But I think myresponsibility with with the
piece and the project is tomaybe put people in a place
where they can hear somethingspoken directly from me to them,
because I write for anindividual. That's how good
radio works, you just hear it'sjust the other person is just

(07:28):
talking to you. And actuallymaybe kind of giving something
too for a bit of hope, or a bitof just a little smile, or maybe
a bit of laughter here andthere. But Sunday's are precious
day, because it's that kind ofcrossroads day, you've got to
the end of a week. So you'rereflecting on that. But you're
also conscious of the fact thatyou're just heading into the new
week. And Sunday can be a bonusday because there's no plans and

(07:51):
you don't have to do loads ofstuff. And you don't have to
specifically have to beanywhere. So you've got that
kind of freedom of thoughtsometimes. So I see the Week
in Words is a piece that canmaybe hopefully, remind people
that there's there's there'smore and today's piece
ended with there's always, alwaysmore good than bad. And maybe
just give a few kind of pointersand a few kind of things to

(08:13):
smile about really, because Ithink it's, smiling is such a
powerful and needed thing rightnow. Yeah,
it really does stand out. Thisis very consistent in your work.
So in the last couple of weeks,if people wanted to catch up on
BBC sounds, for example, you'renot shy and to use your words of

(08:37):
"reflecting on the nonstop heavybombardment of news." You're
hyper aware of the humanitariancrisis that exists in the world
today. But you're equally awareof the fact and using your words
again, "new shoots will grow andlight will always come" and it

(09:00):
seems to me you're putting in areally crucial and essential
reminder for that need ofbalance in the world and in our
lives. Yeah, I
agree I think with, with news isnow available 24 hours a day as
we know and I think it's it'sreally easy just to sink into

(09:20):
it. Almost like a quicksand ofnews of just tragic sad news.
And that that has to have aneffect even though you know
that's not you. That's not yourfamily. You can just switch over
sometimes I find myself it feelsawful, but switching over from
from the news because I can'twatch it. Yeah, and I just think
I've got that choice. And thatfeels bad. That actual action

(09:42):
feels bad but I think that therethere is so much so much bad
news and on a not a cynicallevel on a practical level. Bad
news has always sold right thatthe tabloids feed off it, I
guess and have done very wellfrom that. And people will
always kind of chat more about anegative story sometimes than a

(10:05):
positive story. So I see my rolewith with my writing is just to
try and engage and try and findthe positives. Not glibly, not,
not without any kind ofsubstance, but actually
genuinely find things thatactually could really matter to
somebody or really be a positivespin on something, or just give
an opportunity to really thinkabout actually, we hear so much

(10:26):
bad stuff. But, you know,there's yet to be a channel set
up just for good news. But Ithink if a channel was set up
just for good news, it would becrammed. Because there's people
out there making a difference.You're making a difference with
this podcast, reminding peoplehow vital the arts is, and how,
what a what a role it plays inour society. And, you know, just

(10:47):
on the basics during lockdown,what do people go back to? They
went back to music, they wentback to reading, they went back
to art, and if they and theyfound a way to actually learn
those skills themselves, yeah,because they'd been afforded or
forced to have that time tothink, oh, actually, maybe I
could pick up a guitar or maybeI can play a piano and yeah, we

(11:08):
naturally go back to the art.It's, it's so fundamental
fundamental for our well beingand our kind of mental state of
mind and health. And yet, yeah,as you as you champion and and
share and fairplay team fordoing it. Yeah, there is such a
lack of understanding a lack offunding for it, that it's just

(11:31):
it feels like a huge opportunityis potentially being missed.
Yeah. For people to really,really invigorate their lives
with with these kinds of skillsand hearing new voices and
sounds. Yeah,
absolutely. And, and, forexample, referring to you, as a
People's Poet, it's also animportant acknowledgement of how

(11:53):
we can all have a relationshipwith the arts, without the arts
having to carry some kind ofelitist tag, it is for
everybody. And it's really moreabout increasing and widening
our understanding of how and whythe arts have such a critical

(12:14):
role in our lives in differentways. And one of the things I
think your work does is raiseconscious thought you actually
really work hard at remindingpeople to create a positive
space around their own thinking.And that can be as simple as
reminding people to take apause. And recently, I really

(12:39):
liked how you imagined that wecould actually change the idea
of a week and it was something Iwanted to touch on. Because it's
actually really significant. Weall follow, or most of us follow
the Gregorian calendar, itbrings a structure to our year.
But it's also how we structureour mind. So I was wondering if

(13:01):
you'd like to comment on youridea of imagine if we actually
changed the idea of a week or acalendar? Yeah,
absolutely. And it's strange through this project on the BBC,
it's taken me off in some fairlystrange kind of tangents, and
wibbly wobbly kind ofdirections. But when I sat down
last week, I was reminded ofsomething that I'd seen, it's

(13:24):
just like a Facebook interactionor social media interaction. And
somebody just said, wouldn't itbe just so nice if we just said
four weeks to every month, andevery month was the same. And
then somebody said, Yeah, butthen, you know, leap years would
be kind of all screwed up. Andyou know, it'll be tricky. And
it had just been ticking away in my head. And I just
thought, Well, yeah, how wouldit be if if if every month

(13:45):
started on Sunday, the first andyou just had four weeks? And
that was it all be nicely neatand packaged and you know
exactly what was going on. Andobviously, yeah, leap years
would be slightly different.Every couple of years, you'd
need an extra day, but maybethat could be a day to where
everyone stops and just looksback on the achievements that
they've made over the lastcouple of years or whatever. And
we just have a catch up day. We could just call it that, you

(14:06):
know, Catch Up Day or PopRounds to your Neighbors Day, I
don't know, Make a Cup ofTea for a Stranger Day. Just a
different kind of take onthings. And but then when I
started to kind of look into it,I was just like, oh, actually,
if, you probably know, ifyou have a you know, the first
of the month is a Sunday, thenyou will have a Friday the 13th.
So basically, I'd be proposingto, I wouldn't get very far with this

(14:29):
one, you'd have 13 Friday the 13ths, so can you imagine you'd
have Friday the 13th on the 13th month.
And I do think that superstitionprobably does over rule faith and
religious belief, probably. Yes,
absolutely. And especially thatFriday the 13th has always
intrigued me even as a kid I'dbe the one asking the questions

(14:49):
about things and they'd be like,Oh, just don't Dave don't ask
that. Why? Because it's a validquestion. I'd be like what? Why
is Friday the 13th so unlucky?And people will be like I don't
know, it just is. Okay. Right?I'm just gonna walk around this
ladder, and then we'll have achat about it after that, you
know? It's yeah, it's just like,where do these things kind of
come from, but that just becomeinherent in our kind of societal

(15:11):
structure. So I just kind ofplayed with it. I read with it,
and it kind of it seemed to landquite well, I had a few kinds of
comments and messages on theback of last week's because it
was, it was a fun thing to do.And I actually discovered with
having, again, I tend to kind ofdelve a little bit, I think, as
you do, that Kodak, a verylarge and successful company had

(15:33):
actually used the four weekcalendar for many years about
kind of 50 or 60 years. Andtheir staff were kind of Yeah,
kind of contracted into thatcalendar, although they use the
Gregorian outside of work. Butyeah, and I think they only they
only gave that up in like the60s or 70s, or something. It was
quite a long standing part ofthe Kodak kind of setup, which

(15:56):
made me yeah, kinda, I justfound that fascinating. So
they're just they're just on angles. Yeah,
yeah, it's really interesting,but it is what you're doing.
You're just raising a consciousawareness of the structures we
live by, and actually maybe stepback and take some time to think
about that. And I was wonderingif we could go from the idea of

(16:19):
changing a week or indeed thecalendar to life changing
events, which you know, only toowell. So, without assuming how
much you want to talk aboutthat, or how close you want to
go to some of those stories. I'minterested in, when life really

(16:43):
changed for you. Or in fact, wecould say when life started,
because you discovered life foryou wasn't in fact, a given.
No, absolutely. And, and theexperience that I'll mention
now, absolutely was lifechanging. But not in that kind

(17:04):
of dramatic kind of cliché way.It changed my life. And it's why
we're having a chat now. But IYeah, last year, I hit 50, which
was like great, and I had allthe funny cards and all the
kinds of jokes and the ribbingstuff. But in my head, I turned
20. Because April, the 24th last year was the 20th
anniversary of life savingsurgery, I had a very large

(17:26):
aortic aneurysm, which wasstarting to show signs of
fraying. And I needed surgeryvery quickly. And I discovered
that I had that becausetragically, I lost my cousin to
a condition called Marfansyndrome, which, which I have
and I live with, as does mymum and my auntie, because it's
a it's a dominant gene. So ifyou have a child it's 50/50

(17:50):
whether they have it or not so,and in our family line, we got
unlucky quite a few times. Soyeah, I lost my lovely cousin
Peter. And then yeah, faced thiskind of surgery, I went to see a
consultant my employer at thetime, because I was doing good
things for them said, Look go andsee him privately. I'm like,
that's not really for me. Thankyou. That's kind but and they're

(18:12):
like, No, we booked you anappointment. So I saw him. And
he held up a scan that I'd hadand I was like is that my heart.
and he's like, no, that's youraorta. It should not be that
size. And you have four weeks.And I had this weird, I always
pause when I get to this becauseit's still. Take your time. It's fine.

(18:34):
The timing is good. I've got acat on my lap. And she's looking
at me and purring, going it'salright dad. I had the
surgery six weeks earlier than Iwould have if I'd seen the same
consultant on the NHS. I know.So on those decisions, sliding
door moments, all those kinds ofthings. Yeah, it's just like, so
you can kind of understand why Ihave that positivity and energy

(18:56):
because I'm alive, right? Solast year, I guess I devised,
curated, performed in and andran a show called Alive in
Brighton and I celebrated beingalive. But I also acknowledged
my cousin Peter, because lastyear was I can actually put a
hand on heart now and say lastyear was the first year when it

(19:20):
came to his birthday. And itcame to the anniversary of his
passing and his daughter'sbirthday as well when I wasn't,
I don't want to say overwhelmed.That sounds far too dramatic. I
wasn't intensely conscious ofthat kind of survivor's guilt,
because it was going to be me orhim. Yeah, and I got really
lucky. So I truly feel I have anobligation and a duty to engage

(19:46):
to find people stories toentertain if I can, and just to
share stories and just thewonder that is all around us. It's
that pure. It's that simple. Itreally is.
And this of course wasparticularly pointed because
your cousin, you were literallya couple of days apart. Yeah two
days difference in ourbirthdays. Yeah, absolutely. So

(20:07):
he should have had his 50th Lastyear, you know, so it was. Yeah,
that was that was tough. Yeah.But actually there was there is
much to be celebrated. He was alovely, lovely guy. And actually
last year, as I say, he formed apart of the piece that I opened
that the Alive show with and hewas acknowledged, and he was
celebrated. Yeah, yeah. Andactually, I owe him I've

(20:29):
switched from thinking God I'malive because he's isn't, to
actually, do you know what,Peter, I'm alive and I have you
to thank for that. Yeah, yeah.Because you can't, you can't
beat that kind of fate. It wasit was gonna happen, it
happened. So my responsibilityis to kind of have in, in my
mind, but not let that kind of,you know, stop me making kind of

(20:53):
creative decisions or happydecisions. So just you just
acknowledge the fact that I'm soso lucky.
Yeah. Yeah. Because I know,we've mentioned before, how
tragedy and grief is, it'scomplex, and it's multi layered,
you know, the idea of survivor'sguilt, for example, but as you
were saying, also honoring andremembering somebody. And so at

(21:19):
the time of this life changingevent, coinciding with the loss
of Peter, and I understand evenmore complex than that because
your mother, in fact, was goingthrough the surgery prior to you
undertaking the surgery. Yeah.
Yeah. So

(21:40):
yeah, this is an unimaginablescale of risk to negotiate
because I know you werecourageous enough to not burden
your mum with the worry that youwere going to do the surgery as
soon as possible yourself.
Yeah, I had to lie. She she wastaken ill. We all went for tests

(22:01):
for Marfans and had heart scansand stuff. And while mom was
waiting for her results, shebecame poorly and she was rushed
in and she had a bypass andaortic valve replacement, and
mitral valve repair as well. Soshe was up in up in Yorkshire.
And I went up to see her,obviously, on the ward, and she

(22:22):
was so very tired and not in agreat space. And she's like,
have you had your test? What'shappening with you? And I had to
lie. And basically, I'm justyeah, I've had the test I'm just
waiting on results. Don't worryabout it. I feel fine. Because
at the time I was I lookeddifferent. Yeah, I was a
different physique. I was I wasvery healthy. I was boxing I
was, which stopped instantly.And yeah, so yeah, well

(22:46):
basically mum had hersurgery, I think it was about a
month and a half before mine. Soit was, it was quite a Yeah, it
was an intense and intense time,let's just say. But I'd had it
in my, I had a mantra in my mindwhen I was facing the surgery
and facing it with Sarah, mybrilliant, brilliant wife.
Because I think it's just astough for the partners if not

(23:07):
tougher, because just likelooking on, they're not directly
affected, but they arecompletely affected. And I had a
mantra in my mind that my firstconscious thought would be I'm
no longer ill. I'm now gettingbetter. Yeah, and that was when
I came around. And it was all abit woozy and strange. But that
was my first conscious thought.Yeah,
it's incredible, becausepositive affirmation is

(23:29):
consistent in your work, butit's also quite a quite an
incredible and tough discipline.When you're in that context of
all that stress. As one example,you know, to still be able to
assert positive affirmation isquite a strength. You have

(23:49):
shown so much courage. I'mcurious whether you understand
some of your own actions andattitudes as courageous even.
Probably not to be honest withyou. There's a there's a
couple of things that if mydaughter was hearing me now

(24:10):
she'd be rolling her eyes, butshe's not she's in Dubai, warm
weather training, and thencompeting with Team GB as you
do. But we'll come on to herright. Yeah, I just got these
like two basic things that Ikind of always come into my head
pretty much every day, whichwhich is kind of focus on what
you can do rather than what youcan't. Simple, right. But that's
quite powerful. And that thathelped me in the recovery from

(24:32):
that. It certainly helped melast year you touched on earlier
on I had a stroke last year outof nowhere. So last year was
super, super tough. And that wasa month before the Alive show. So
the fact that I managed to, that still happened, which was
incredible. But also, there'sanother thing that I truly live

(24:53):
by which is you you wake up ifyou're lucky. You wake up in the
morning, and you've got acertain amount of energy and you
can choose to use that energyduring the day. And if you
choose to use that energy onlyon things you can affect then
great if you choose to use thatenergy on things you cannot
affect you're consciouslychoosing to waste that energy.
Yeah. And it's it's simple.Yeah. And it's pure, but I live

(25:16):
by that. Yeah, it's just like,right. What can I do today? What
can I affect today? acknowledgewhat you can't affect. Yeah. And
just use all your energy intothe good stuff. Yeah,
it's a very very crystal clearcompass isn't it and, and
Alive is something I do want totalk about. But just before
moving on to that what I'm alsocurious about is when did poetry

(25:41):
become a part of you? I'mwondering whether it already was
part of your life and and was itperhaps part of your coping
strategy through theseparticular life changing events?
Or is it something that camelater?
Since I was a kid, I've I'vealways loved rhythm. I've always

(26:02):
loved words. There are somewords I just love the sound of.
and bouncing, bouncing is aspoken word I absolutely love.
It's kind of how my mind works.I'd always written poems. As a
kid really, I really liked them.But it's strange because we keep
using that word today. And Ioften refer to it as the P word,

(26:22):
because I find that if I say,Oh, what do you do Dave? Well
I work but I'm also, I'm aspoken word performer. I'm a
writer, and a storyteller. Andthey're great, tell me more
about that. And if I say, oh,yeah, no, me I write and I'm a
poet. And they're like, oh,that's, that's interesting. And
you can just see them glazingso I call it the P word. I

(26:45):
think at school poetry is one ofthose subjects that I think
there's a compulsion to, to kindof teach it. But my experience
of it has been that it's kind ofit's disseminated and
destructed, basically slowlytake this one line of poetry,
analyze every syllable, and thenput it back together again, and
work out what it means. Ratherthan does that bounce, does that

(27:06):
say something to you? What doyou think's going on there? You
know, I mean, it's just, yeah,so poetry, I say I jokingly
refer to as the P word, but Ihave to acknowledge that, you
know, each week I'm being calledthe poet on radio and stuff like
that. So I'll roll with it. I'llroll with it. Yeah, but I've
always I've always written I'vealways had that mindset. Yeah.

(27:27):
But it ramped up a few yearsago, I was I was doing a job
that I wasn't really, trulyenjoying. And Sarah, who I've
mentioned before, and I could doa separate podcast on because
she is just joyous and brilliantand so supportive. She just
said, Stop. Just stop, take taketime away. Yeah, kind of heal a
bit. Because that there werethings that I was still kind of

(27:49):
dealing with, with with Peter,after all those years, get well
get better, and just focus onwriting, and create and write
and do things. And I did, andyou know, here we are chatting.
Yeah. And it's havingpermission, isn't it? And what a
joy when there's a partner orsomeone close to you, that
recognizes the need to have thatpermission and to support it. So

(28:13):
even though poetry or the P wordwas always part of you
would you say that when thelandmark year of 2023 arrived,
be it the anniversary of notturning 50 but turning 20.

(28:33):
Yeah. But also, you know, thechances of experiencing a stroke
in that year, almost reinforcing all of the life affirmations
that you're so committed to, andthat feeding into your event

(28:55):
Alive.
Absolutely. Bizarrely, it mightsound funny for people to kind
of hear this, but I see theheart surgery and everything
around that and the recoveryfrom that as being the reason
that last year didn't completelybreak me. Because having a
stroke, age 49 You know, 20years on from having a very

(29:17):
attention seeking noisy fuss,you know, previously on the
medical side, it just feltlike kind of, you know, I did
have thoughts. It was just likeyou're not meant to be, you're
not meant to be here right. Yeah, I tried it, 29 getting to 30
That's not gonna happen. Oh, no,you made it. Okay, let's just
tick along and wait a bit.You're 49 now you're getting
ready to celebrate your 50thright, let's just have some

(29:38):
more completely out of the blue.I was again, very, very healthy
training for a 100 mile ride forthe Alzheimer's Society, all that
kind of stuff. And then all of asudden a strroke out of the
blue but I think because becauseof what I'd experienced with the
loss of Peter in the recoveryfrom from heart surgery, and
various other things that hadhappened in the interim years, I

(30:00):
was in a much better place tounderstand how I might feel
after the stroke, and to havethose coping strategies. Yeah.
Whereas if I'd just not hadanything like that before, and
then last year it happened, itwould have been probably harder.
But I would say I acknowledgeand I've shared with friends
that last year was the toughestyear of my life. It was it was

(30:24):
beyond heart surgery. Yeah,
yeah. Which is saying something,isn't it when that was so
enormous? Yeah,
but I saw that it's a strangething. I saw that as a
mechanical thing. Because I sawthe image. I'm like, That's my
aorta. It's three times the sizeit should be. You're gonna put a
metallic valve into my heart. Itwill tick with every heartbeat. I

(30:44):
hear my I heart tick. Yeah, Ican hear myself ticking. And
that's actually that's areassurance. Yeah. So it was a
mechanical fix. It was a clumsymetaphor, but like taking your
car into a garage and getting itfixed, right? I was fixed. I was
no longer ill I was now gettingbetter. Whereas the stroke was
just like, What the hell wasthat? How could that happen?

(31:07):
Yeah, I take warfarin, because Ihave a metallic heart valve. So
I take anti blood clottingmedicine and have done for 20
years, physiologically, I shouldnot be able to have a stroke.
And yet I had a blood clot in mybrain. How could that happen?
Yeah, so you can probablyimagine the thought
processes around that time?Yeah,
the impact is gigantic. Yeah.

(31:29):
Yeah. Yeah. Again, I had that Ihad that positive approach to
it. Because just like, well,again, but that classic thing,
use energy on things you canaffect. Yeah.
And you can really see that thepsychological power of that and
in fact, you know, talking aboutpoetry, you know, there is a
really good book called YourBrain on Art. And it quite often

(31:52):
refers to poetry, you know,that, it dates back to at
least 4,300 years ago that, youknow, in terms of actual
recordings, the ancient Greeksliterally prescribed poetry. And
here we are today, kind ofincreasingly talking about
social prescribing. But what'ssignificant about that is the

(32:15):
actual research on poeticemotion that you can measure
biological and psychologicaleffects. And so I wonder how
much your own poetry was part ofyour survival and in 2023, with
that shock and impact of astroke, I wonder whether it even

(32:39):
played into the idea ofneuroplasticity?
Oh, 100% 100% Because I, again,in terms of trying to remind
myself what had what hadhappened. I mean, I said to
people at the time, I've beenincredibly unlucky, but I feel
like I've landed on the luckyside of unlucky, right? And so
there were some times when myfriends were like Dave, can't you

(33:00):
just be pissed off once? This isreally unfair. I don't like
this. I'm like, well, I could,but I'd be wasting energy
because it's happened. Yeah, sowhy waste that energy? I've
landed on the lucky side ofunlucky. The, the only physical
symptom of my stroke was myeyesight. And I again, that
sounds very glib, and it yeah, my eyesight was not great.

(33:22):
So I was just like, okay, am Igonna drive again? Am I gonna be
seeing stuff? Well, again, youknow, it's quite a big deal. So
I just thought, right, I'll takea little diary. I'll give myself
a percentage score every singleday. Because my I know that
neuroplasticity works. Mydaughter you mentioned early on,
it's a Para Olympian. She hascerebral palsy. And she's

(33:44):
working with a clinic in Hove the Nikki Penny clinic. And they
they do neuroplasticity in theirphysiotherapy. So literally
retraining the brain to kind offind different synapses in
different ways. So she canactually engage muscles that
previously had been redundant orpreviously have been affected by
cerebral palsy kind of spasming.And that tightening, because

(34:05):
she's a wheelchair racer, so sheneeds to be able to move her
arms out relatively quickly. SoI know it, I know it can happen.
So it's just thinking, okay, mybrain. I don't understand how
brains work. But I know my brainwill suddenly realize that I'm
not seeing too well. And the bitthat was doing that is now dead.
So there'll be parts of my brainthat be like, Yeah, I'll do
that. That's how it works. Andit's incredible. So I just

(34:27):
thought, if I score that on adaily basis, let's see what
happens. I saw those percentagesimprove.
Yeah, it's absolutelyfascinating. And just for the
listeners, in case you're toomodest, as you are to say,
your daughter has a fabulousname. So Fabian, but known as
fab! I mean, what a great startto the day, morning Fab! Yeah

(34:49):
everyone calls her Fab. Team GBthey call her Fabs. Yeah,
but also I dowant to let the listeners
know that Fab is a doubleEuropean and world champion,
medal holder. So your family, youdon't muck about do you?!

(35:09):
Well kind of no, I guess weird,isn't it if I kind of take a step
back. If I was listening tothis, right, yeah. Alright I've
got got stuff going on. Butyeah, Fab is in Dubai, as
we're chatting and she'scompeting today it's a
Para Olympic year. And you know,the last couple of years yes,
she she's current doubleEuropean champion, 100 meter and

(35:30):
800 meters. She got, Team GB gota gold, silver, bronze, so in the
Commonwealth Games in the 100meters final she was that
bronze. And then the WorldChampionships last year in July,
which I set myself as a goal tobe physically present at and
managed to achieve and turn into crumbly mess after her
race. There was a Team GB gold,silver, bronze again and again

(35:51):
she was the bronze. So on an international level she's she's
up there. She's kind of third inthe world that there's there's
basically three or four athletesbattling out for kind of silver,
bronze at the moment. She's inthat mix. And yeah, exactly.
she's awesome. She's absolutelyincredible. I've said to her
several times, if I wasn't yourdad, I'd be a fan. Yeah, it'd be
funny because she, yeah, she'sbrilliant. Yeah,

(36:14):
it's such a lovely and anotherpositive affirmation story,
which which is so important.And, you know, it's something
you're both sharing in terms ofthe direct experience of
neuroplasticity, that we areable to create new pathways, new
neuro pathways, and again, thatthis is one of the significant

(36:38):
roles the arts play, and becauseof your work as a spoken word
artists and poetry, it does saythat this is something to learn
from that if people wanted tochoose, for example, poetry as a
way of practicing, rehearsing,extending their own neural

(36:59):
pathways around language,linguistics, imagination,
curiosity, imagination, howsignificant would you say the
results are by having thatengagement?
I think absolutely huge. I thinkthe potential for any person to
just write one line, just whatwhatever is in their mind, just

(37:20):
write one line and then look atit. And then not, for me spoken
word is kind of my, my mainthrust that everything has a
little rhythm or a little tickor a little overlap somewhere to
it. So that's, that tends to behow my mind works. And it's,
it's almost impossible for menow to write down the first line
of something even though I'msending something on email. If

(37:40):
it's got a little rhythm to it,I find it so hard not to make
the second line just kind ofmerge a little bit and play
around. But I think, yeah, ifpeople just did that almost as
like a five minute meditationeach day, just like, write down
a couple of things that havehappened to you today. But then
try and put a couple of lines inbetween those and make them
bounce a bit and try and pickout a tiny little rhyme from one

(38:04):
of the words but don't have itat the end of the year. Don't do
classic poetry, as we weretaught at school that da, da,
de, da, da, yeahwe don't need that
it can just bounce and flowalong. And I think with the if
we think of a young lad in Hove, he's now kind of
absolutely smashing it out withwith kind of the Grime scene and
stuff like that. People likestorytelling, they like fast

(38:26):
paced, bouncy stories beingbeing told. And that's that's
poetry just as much as, asanything else that you can find
in some of the kind of theclassic books. But yeah, I just
think if everyone just had like5-10 minutes each day almost to
do what I'm doing with theWeek in Words, just like yeah,
just jot down a few things andplay around with stuff and just

(38:49):
give themselves that freedom tolike breathe and explore and
just be daft maybe, and writethings down. It's just it opens
up channels in your mind thatnormally don't allow yourself
time to have.
Yeah, yeah. And I really dothink this is where the power of
your particular work comes inyour emphasis on pausing and

(39:11):
space and reflecting. And itagain, it's really significant
because you know, there isactive neurological
psychological research, whichexplores both the arts and
specifically poetry and you hitthe nail on the head, that it's
identifying that the arts orpoetry is helping to induce a

(39:36):
safe, meditative space. Andthat's where a lot of healing
lies, particularly if you'rerecovering from trauma.
Absolutely,
I think the power of poetry,prose, spoken word, whatever. I
think the incredible thing forme and I've experienced this

(39:56):
with Poetry Takeaway is you'vegot little time and not as many
lines, but you can condense someincredibly powerful concepts,
ideas and scenery into thoselines. And, and I think people
that, that maybe are kind of newto poetry or spoken word,
sometimes they read a couple ofthose lines. And for me, poetry

(40:19):
is a visual thing. So you'realmost prompting somebody to see
the scene that you'reportraying. Yeah, with a very
few words. So the actualexperience is much larger than
the words on the page, becauseyou're prompting images in
people's minds. So you'reactively engaging their brains
not in through the physicalprocess of reading or
understanding the words ortrying to work out what's going

(40:40):
on. But more often than not, ifit's written well, or if it's
spoken, well, people canactually see what's being
described, so that their brainsare actively engaging and seeing
these these these images. Forme, when I write really,
sometimes really clearly, I cansee what I'm writing. And
that's, that can only be ahealthy thing, I believe.

(41:00):
Yeah, absolutely. And justallowing for the fact that we
all respond differently. Um, sofor example, talking therapy
doesn't work for everybody. Butsomething visual can and a quote
of yours, I noted, was, when yousaid "poetry condenses complex
things into a few lines," orindeed, into a few visual images

(41:27):
or ideas. And I wondered if youwould say, that summarizes the
art of poetry?
I think it does. Yeah, I thinkit does. I think you could write
reams and reams and reams on asubject. But likewise, somebody
with maybe a different way ofthinking about it could just
turn that into, I don't know,you could fit that on one A4

(41:47):
sheet. Yeah, get the same pointsacross and get the same images
set up in the reader's mind. AndI think that's why yeah, going
back to what I was saying aboutthe the modern age, we live in
in all our rush and our headlinegrabbing and our attention span,
I think poetry now is probablymore relevant than ever, because

(42:10):
you can get a hell of a lotacross in a very short space of
time. Yeah, and it's, you know,I've got a bus poem on a bus
going around Brighton at themoment, people are hopping on
and off the bus, they might readit in the time that they're on
the bus for a journey, and thenthey pop off again. And if some
of them are now thinking aboutchalk, and what it's made of
great, you know, if some ofthem engage and go, not for

(42:31):
me, that's, that's fine. Atleast I've had a read, but
they've seen images. And they'vebeen prompted to have a think
and I think poetry can do thatin a way that is precious to me.
But I think anything, anythingwithin the arts can do it can
fulfill that same role as well.
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And soall of this, of course, feeds

(42:53):
into the brilliant event thatwe've referenced in the
conversation Alive, which youput on, incredibly in 2023,
considering what you'd beenthrough. And this was also in
collaboration with the legend,Whispering Bob Harris. And yeah,

(43:15):
and for listeners, I'm fortunateenough to have international
listeners, Whispering BobHarris, is very well known,
really, as a BBC Radio legendand the famous program, music
program, of course, the Old GreyWhistle Test. And I was amazed

(43:36):
to read that what you had incommon was that Bob too had had
successful life saving, savingsurgery for aortic
dissection. So I wondered whatyou can tell us about your
collaboration and the event?
Oh, yeah, absolutely. I met Bobclosely affiliated with a
charity called the AorticDissection, charitable trust,

(43:58):
who only set off about twoand a half years ago, but have
already made absolutely massivestrides forward in sharing kind
of knowledge and awareness ofdissection and what to look for,
especially in young patients,because it's, well, yeah, we're
losing quite a lot of youngpeople each year, like cousin
Peter, it was misdiagnosed andcompletely missed, and then

(44:20):
became very poorly. So they aredoing incredible work.
Absolutely amazing work. AndBob, is there kind of main
Ambassador because he had he hadan aortic tear. So he
became very poorly. And yeah,and he was dissecting, so he had
surgery to recover from that.And it's still something that he
talks very openly about, interms of there are days when

(44:44):
it's still really really giveshim a massive wobble. But
but Bob, as you know, is a greattalker. He's very erudite but
he's got all these tales andstories and a brilliance and we
met doing some recording for thecharity and kind of just got on
anyway, because his best friendin the world is Robert Plant,
and in my world, the best band ever to

(45:06):
grace the planet were LedZeppelin. So we had plenty to
chat about over lunch one time,and we kind of stayed in touch.
So, which again, was that kindof surreal thing, because
basically through spoken wordand chatting, I've done a bit of
work with the charity and theirlaunch and stuff. And I was
thinking, I'm having lunch withBob Harris. And, you know, here
we are chatting about justsimilar experiences. So we kind

(45:29):
of stayed in touch. And when Idecided that I wanted to
celebrate being alive and gatherkind of comedy and music and
spoken word together at thisevent, I reached out to him, I
said, Look, I'm thinking aboutdoing this. If we made this a
fundraiser for the AorticDissection, Charitable Trust,
would you be up for it? And hejust came back straightaway and
said, Yes. 100%. Let me know. Soyeah, it was it was an evening

(45:52):
of Conversation with Bob andsome of his tales. And between
us we put together like afantasy band. And yeah, it was
it was a it was a it was theperfect way to celebrate being
alive. The irony was, I wasrunning at about 60%, because it
was just over a month after astroke. So I kind of got through
it. But I had a huge smile on myface. And it all went really

(46:15):
well. But it was a great wayit was the perfect way to honor
cousin Peter, and to acknowledgethat I am alive and I have a
duty.
Yeah, and it's just a lovelyexample of the power of of the
art of storytelling, and ofsharing and collaborating. I
mean, Bob Harris has probablyone of the most famous and

(46:36):
distinct voices in the world.
100%. Yeah.
And isn't it lovely that despiteall of his legendary years in
music, he is very down to earth.very willing to take on causes.

(46:57):
Yeah. 100%.
That man has absolutely noego at all. He has, he
has, it's weird. So I'm justthinking about now as I'm
chatting to you, I realized thatone of the things that we share
is an absolute passion for whatwe do. Yeah, he loves his job.
He does the country show onRadio 2. He's still, he's

(47:18):
touring The Songs, The BeatlesGave Away and he's out
there. He's just busy, busy,busy all the time. But because
he loves it, he loves hearingstories. He loves sharing
stories. He loves music, heloves the arts, so and the Alive
event, you know, I consciouslybrought together a variation of

(47:39):
people. So we had a Hatful of Rain who are a local band who
are kind of Americana, and a bitkind of country. So the kind of
country side of things, who arebrilliant musicians. We had
Rich Wilson, who's a localcomedian, award winning
comedian. A dear friend of mine,Robert Garnham, who lives in the
West Country came across forthat one evening to perform.

(48:00):
He's the, he's the self selftitled Professor of Whimsy and
is just a brilliant, brilliantpoet and storyteller. And we had
a chap, Ed, dear Ed, who was whogoes under the name of Gramski
and he's, he's possibly thefinest freestyle rapper I've
ever encountered. So we had areal variation. Yeah, there

(48:21):
were people that just wanted tocome along and hear Bob in
conversation. But there arepeople that wanted to hear
music, or comedy, or poetry orwhatever. So I kind of wanted to
really tumble together variousaspects of the arts to almost
like put a marker in the sandand say, Look, this is me, this
is what I do. But I love all ofthis. Come and join us. Let's
celebrate, let's celebrate beingalive, not just from me being

(48:43):
alive, but lets us all celebratebeing alive and the
possibilities that can give us
Yeah, it's what we were sayingat the very beginning. It's that
reminder of not just positiveaffirmation, but the importance
of balancing the crisis in theworld and the crisis in our
lives with those things that wecan enjoy and share and connect

(49:04):
with. And actually, there'ssomething else you and Bob
Harris, have in common in thatBob has also survived prostrate
cancer, which he's also beingvery courageous about in order
to help raise awareness and ofcourse, Prostrate Cancer UK
asked you to write a poem. Andthis poem was shot in a football

(49:28):
stadium. So I wondered if youcould tell us about that choice.
Yeah,
of course. I linked withProstate Cancer UK in 2016, my
father in law was given adiagnosis and it was it was
stage four. So he had a certainnumber of years basically, and
he did incredibly well. But wewe lost him a few years

(49:50):
ago. So Prostate Cancer UKbasically did a charity ride from
London to Amsterdam each year,and they call it Football to
Amsterdam and the idea is whereon the first day, you
would turn up and you'd ride inyour football shirt. And then
the second day, you'd ride inthe Prostate Cancer UK shirt and
arrive at the Ajax Arena inAmsterdam. So it was it was
about kind of bringing teams oftribes together where that rivalry

(50:14):
would be, but basically thatthey'll have #MenUnited
Yeah, it was just about puttingall those kind of hostilities,
let's let's call it withfootball aside and tribalness
aside and just ride for thesame event. So I did that. And I
found it incredibly moving andempowering. And yeah, brilliant.
And I wrote a couple of piecesfor them. And just in the like,

(50:35):
the Facebook groups and oneabout the medal which, which
they shared, and then yeah, thatthey actually reached out to me,
because they'd seen some of myother work as well and said,
Look, would you consider doing apiece for us for kind of
corporate partnership bits thatwe could record? And I'm like,
Yeah, of course. So yeah, Iwrote that and recorded it at

(50:56):
the AMEX Stadium inBrighton, which was a surreal day
because I, we turned up thereand it was it was mid season. So
they were re-laying the pitch. Sothere were like JCBs and
everything. There's quite a lotgoing on. And we set up the film
crew and the camera crew andstuff. And then the sound man
said, like, I can't, we can'trecord at the moment because the
diggers are going and it's justtoo too much background noise.

(51:16):
So, a security guy kind of buzzedover. And then it went through
to the like the MD, and the MDbasically told all of the staff
to go for an early lunch. So allthe diggers stopped, and we had
45 minutes to get the piecerecorded and in the can so
Brighton Hove Albion actuallypaused re0laying their pitch
so that I could record thispiece for Prostate Cancer. And

(51:40):
it was something incrediblyclose to my heart. And it came
across that way, I think. Andthey, they've used it in
successful corporate partnershipbids. And it's helped them to,
yeah, to raise a lot of money,but but crucially, a lot of
awareness about the condition aswell. Yeah.
And so, again, this has been ahuge space of personal loss,

(52:02):
your direct experience. And timeand time again, life is
certainly playing you somepretty tough cards and time and
time again, you respond in themost positive way. It just seems
to be such a powerful testimonyto your skills in poetry and

(52:27):
spoken words, but also thepower, the psychological power,
the benefits of poetry, andanother detail that had stood
out to me around you shootingthis poetry recital in a
football stadium is the diseaseis responsible for taking one

(52:50):
man every 45 minutes. And so youwere also demonstrating scale.
Yes, absolutely. Yeah. It was ait was the perfect kind of
setting. And it is yeah, and Istill one in eight men, I
know it's in the piece, one andeight men in every crowd. So
when you look at Match of theDay, or these like big events

(53:10):
and the Olympics, Para Olympics,you look at that stadium and you
think one in eight men in thiscrowd will be affected by
prostate cancer. It's it's amassive, massive figure. And
there's a huge awareness pieceand Prostate Cancer UK are doing
brilliant things. And again,they've come along massively,
and occasionally you'll get acrossover so I think when you

(53:32):
know one of the EastEnderscharacters at the moment is
being, part of his role is thathe's been diagnosed with
prostate cancer so it's it'scoming into like the every day
and being discussed in everyday. But it's yeah, through
through you know, through thoserides and that work I formed
friendships with with people whoare, you know, kind of famous

(53:54):
for want of a better phrase, butwho have absolutely helped the
charity so much. And the filmingon that day was incredibly
poignant, because there wasthere was a lovely, lovely man
called Paul Deer that I'dridden to Amsterdam twice with,
and he had prostate cancer. Andwe were filming the last few
shots on Brighton beach on theday, and I had a call from his

(54:16):
daughter, Laura, who I'dridden to Amsterdam with the
previous year to say that he'dpassed away. So he actually
passed on the day that I wasrecording that film. And the
filming had ended. So thankfully, we had everything in the camp
because I was not in a positionto kind of carry on but
actually I knew he was at homewith respite care. So I'd

(54:38):
actually recorded something forhim directly to him and for him
from me in terms of ourfriendship and what he'd done
for the charity and sent it overas an audio file. And they
played it to him the daybefore he passed, so it was
yeah, it was incredible. Butagain, it's just that reminder
that you mentioned there. Yeah,we've been dealt all these cards

(54:59):
and things have happened, butthat is just life. Yeah, we were
all dealt incredibly tough cardsat times. And I think, for me, I
feel really fortunate thatpoetry and spoken word has
helped me to kind of frame thatand actually work through that.
It's an incredibly supportivething. The arts are just an
incredibly supportive force forfor not only entertaining, but I

(55:23):
think for actually soothing andcounseling. However, however,
you want to take that word, youknow, that they're just vital.
Yeah, absolutely. And all themore reason for a Poet Chef, I
love that you're a Poet Chef, Ilove the idea of a Poetry
Takeaway. And I guess we couldthink of that as Soul Food

(55:44):
rather than Fast Food. Oh, 100%.
Yes, liking your work. Yeah,absolutely. And it absolutely
is. It's the Poetry Takeaway, Ibelieve it's a, it's a kind of,
I don't know, it's a giant thingwaiting to happen. I've said to
Michael, that's the guy that ownsand runs it so many times, if
this was a TV program, thiswould reach so many people, and

(56:08):
it would just be so vital, andso brilliant, because you know,
we've got embroidery programsand baking programs and clay
programs and wood makingprograms. But if somebody films,
the Poetry Takeaway, people willjust be talking about it,
because it's such an incredibleprocess. In effect, it's it's a
layby snack van, if you canpicture one of those. And then

(56:28):
when the awning goes up, you'vegot three poets sat there. So
it's just such a pure thing. Youhave two or three minutes to get
ingredients from a random person,why do you want a poem, what do
you want it to be about, what'sgoing on in your head at the
moment. Yeah, give me somedirection. So you have those
ingredients, and then you writethem, you cook them up a poem on

(56:49):
the spot, and they come backabout 5-10 minutes later, and you
read them that poem that you'vejust created based on their
ingredients. And invariably,there's there's tears or hugs or
laughter or Wow. And then youput it in a special Poetry
Takeaway envelope, you handed itover, and you never see that
poem again. But you know, thatperson is walking away, having
experienced something, ninetimes out of 10 that they never

(57:11):
thought was possible, andthey've never experienced
before. And it triggers peopleto write and communicate, and
just yeah, just share theirtruth. You do
such beautiful things. And it'sall testimony to the power of
poetry, the power of the arts,the reason we need to pause and
reflect. In fact, how youdescribe the Poetry Takeaway

(57:31):
it's a bit like watchingthe Repair Shop.
Yeah, it's that that kind ofvibe for me. I just think I, you
know, I've written for one ofthe ladies that sticks in my
mind was she's a granny, a Nana, aGreek lady and her son had just
hit 14, and was changing in lotsof ways. And she wanted a poem for

(57:53):
him, to him, to tell him howmuch she loved him. And no
matter what happens over thenext few years, when she
probably becomes really annoyingor embarrassing. Yeah. And he
has different strains anddifferent pressures and
expectations on him as he growsinto a young man, she will
always love him, regardless ofthe decisions he makes. And she
was scared. She was she wasscared of losing the child, but

(58:17):
also acknowledging he was goingto become a young man. And that
was like a two or three minuteconversation, and then she
wanders off for a coffee andyou've got to write something.
And yeah, she yeah, I hadcommunication with her a little
while after. And it's fair tosay it formed quite an important
thing for her, but also for himas well. So yeah, just those

(58:39):
tiny little interactions, younever know. You never know who
you're talking to. You neverknow what stories they might
have, what concerns they mighthave. And, and spoken word and
poetry in the arts can just justtake the sting out of things
sometimes, you know.
Yeah, yeah. And so everythingyou're saying really does feed
into the end point of the seriesquestion. Can art save us?

(59:06):
I think it is. I think it has. Ithink it should. I think it can,
it does. It absolutely doesthat. Yeah. Last year was, as my
daughter says, sometimes "lots."Yeah, last year was lots for me.
And there were times when I satdown to write and I won't share
those. Yeah, that just things Iwrote at the time. Yeah. And

(59:27):
that they will be safely boxedaway. But I needed to write I
needed to get ideas down. Butlikewise, here last year was
lots and yet, and yet, yeah, wegot Alive together down at
Rockwater in Hove. And weperformed and celebrated being
alive. Yeah. And that that couldnot happen if we didn't have

(59:50):
desperate people living all overSussex and out to the West
Country, who had a passion toperform and share stories and we
all came together that night andproved the arts can save us.
Yeah, it's so it's so, sosimple, in my mind it's so clear
in my mind. And as I say, Ithink lockdown was, is the most

(01:00:11):
telling point in the last fewyears that what we retreated to
naturally and instinctively Yeah, it was the arts. Yeah.
It just had a genuine space toreveal itself. Absolutely.
It supported people, it helpedpeople. Yeah, it got people
through something that well that there are

(01:00:33):
well, that hopefully there won'tbe any other events that affects
the entire world. At the sametime. It was a massive, massive,
massive event. But the arts, Ibelieve, just played such an
important part in helping peopleto get through each day, because
that's what it was, wasn't it.There was the point it was just
like day by day. What are wegoing to do today? What what are

(01:00:54):
we allowed to do today? What canwe do today? And the arts for me
and so many other people justformed part of that support
mechanism.
Absolutely. And you too, Daveare playing a massive part in
helping people get through theirdaily lives, your generosity is
huge. I know you're too modestto say, as is your courage, we

(01:01:19):
don't often recognize couragebecause it's so often perceived
as trumpet blowing for heroism,but it's the courage to persist
in the right thing to find thestrength to have positive
affirmation. And as you weresaying throughout the interview,
to spread the light and tospread the joy. I really do want

(01:01:41):
to say a huge thank you not justfor your time today, but for the
generosity that you're showingthrough your work that you're
reaching people with. listenerswill be able to find your Week
in Words on BBC Sounds and thatwill be via the Allison Ferns,

(01:02:02):
Breakfast Show on a Sunday andthere's three counties where for
listeners in the UK you can tunein for Kent, Sussex and Surrey
but online head to BBC Sounds. OnDave's dedicated episode page, I
will be sure to point you to therelevant links so you can

(01:02:24):
discover more of his work andhopefully join the benefits of
what Dave has taught us today.The benefits of poetry and the
fact that we can find joy. Thankyou Dave. I really appreciate it.
This has been fun. This has beenfun, I'm so happy that you can

(01:02:44):
hear I'm smiling, right? You canhear it in my voice. I'm just
smiling. This is lovely. Andwhat you're doing is is
incredible and vital. And yeah.All power to you.
Bless you. Well, thank you forbeing part of it, Dave.
It's an absolute privilege.Thank you.