Chile's Mother of Protest Songs and Folk Power.

Professor Ericka Verba, is the director of Latin American Studies at California State University. She's an author and a musician, recently reviewed as a rising star by the Los Angeles magazine voyage LA. She is notably the author of the first English language biography of Violeta Parra out now entitled Thanks to Life. The title translates Parra's iconic song, Gracias a la Vida, famously covered by Joan Baez and many more. Violeta Parra is one of Chile's most important women artists and Ericka's study of her life and work spans five decades. Her deep expertise translates into the reviews, describing it as a "stunning achievement" and "deeply moving." She both navigates and honors the life of a complex woman, an artist who shattered gender, racial and class barriers. Violeta Parra collected and preserved Chilean folk music as a personal mission, now of huge national significance and made an important contribution to Chile's protest music movement. New Song. Thanks to life, underscores the power of art as a force for change. Parra represented voices that were otherwise unheard in her songs, notably women workers and indigenous peoples. She broke extraordinary barriers as a recording and visual artist working across paintings, ceramics and tapestries. In 1964 she became the first self taught Latin American visual artist to hold a solo exhibition at the Museum of Decorative Arts, housed in the Louvre, Paris, tragically in 1967 and this biography documents her travels throughout Latin America and Europe at the height of the Cold War. It's intertwined with her conflicting identities and the meaning of authenticity. This biography is a legacy work of passion and compassion. 

 

Discover Ericka Verba https://erickaverba.com/

Series Audio Editor - Joey Quan.

Series Music - Courtesy of Barry J. Gibb

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Read only, text transcripts of every interview, news, reviews and your host, Paula Moore, are available here: https://canartsaveus.com/

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Episode Transcript

(00:03):
Welcome to thispodcast series asking the
question, Can art save us? I'mstarting the first national and
international conversation aboutcourage and curiosity. What do
these qualities really mean, andwhy does it make a big
difference to our mental,societal and democratic health?
I talk to award winning anddiverse artists across the arts

(00:24):
to explore these qualities intheir lives and work both to
inspire and for us all to learn.I'm exploring why we need these
qualities to help change theglobal epidemic of mental
illness, loneliness,polarization of our community
and even global conflict. If thearts cultivate courage and
curiosity, I'm asking thequestion, Can art save us? The

(00:49):
power of music, protest songsand the arts couldn't be better
shared today than with myesteemed guest professor, Ericka
Verba, who also brings to thefore the vital contribution of
one of Chile's most importantwomen artists, Violeta Parra
Ericka is the director of LatinAmerican Studies at California
State University. She's anauthor and a musician, recently

(01:13):
reviewed as a rising star by theLos Angeles magazine Voyage LA.
She is notably the author of thefirst English language biography
of Violeta Parra out nowentitled thanks to life, the
title translates Parra's iconicsong Gracias a la Vida, famously
covered by Joan Baez and manymore. Ericka's study of Parra

(01:36):
spans five decades, and her deepexpertise translates into the
reviews, describing it as astunning achievement and deeply
moving, she both navigates andhonors the life of a complex
woman, an artist who shatteredgender, racial and class
barriers. Violeta Parracollected and preserved Chilean

(01:56):
folk music as a personalmission, now of huge national
significance and made animportant contribution to
Chile's protest music movement.New song, and that resonates in
today's climate of deeppolitical divisions. Thanks to
Life, underscores the power ofart as a force for change. Parra

(02:18):
represented voices that wereotherwise unheard in her songs,
notably women workers andindigenous peoples. She broke
extraordinary barriers as arecording and visual artist
working across paintings,ceramics and tapestries. In 1964
she became the first self taughtLatin American visual artist to

(02:39):
hold a solo exhibition at theMuseum of Decorative Arts,
housed in the Louvre Parisparadise tragically in 1967 in
this biography documents hertravels throughout Latin America
and Europe at the height of theCold War is intertwined with
her conflicting identities andthe meaning of authenticity.

(03:02):
Today, I'm delighted to talk tothe author Ericka Verba, not only
as a skilled historian, but as acompassionate fellow artist who
shares Parra's passion for musicand for the arts as a force for
positive change. Hello, Ericka,and a very warm welcome to
Can Art Save Us? Well
Thank you so much, Paula, thatwas just a wonderful framing of

(03:25):
what I hope we get to talk aboutin the next hour, because it's
just so important. Absolutely.
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, thereis so much to talk about. It
really is not just a wonderfulwork that you've produced, but
such a compassionate act tobring such an important woman to
life, and I was thinking aboutthe fact that, of course, Parra

(03:51):
has had a direct influence onyou. You have your own bands,
but perhaps the best place tostart, of course, is with trying
to understand Parra's impact, andI thought I'd perhaps quote a
very tough question that sheposed herself when she was first
rejected by the Louvre, and shesaid: "How could I have an

(04:15):
exhibit at the Louvre, I who amthe ugliest woman on the planet
who comes from a tiny country,from Chilian at the end of the
earth?" so Ericka, having read yourexcellent biography, I wondered
whether her power is in The roleof witness, regardless of her

(04:39):
undistinguished origins?
Well, I think that's a wonderfulquestion. And thank you for
saying such nice things about mybook. It really was a heart
project, you know, project ofthe heart. So it's, you know, I
think I had to write it nomatter what. And it's been
really wonderful to hear thatpeople can are enjoying reading
it and all. So what's beenreally exciting for me, because

(05:02):
I am so admiring of her, andshe's so much shaped my own
life, yet at the bottom, it's,it's one, one of the responses
I've been getting is, how come Ididn't know about her? And so
one of, one of the things that Ihope my book does is introduce
her to a broader audience. Sothat's like my one of my
favorite questions. And I thinkthat, in response to your
question, I've always wanted towrite about Violeta Parra, and I

(05:25):
was afraid I was going to writea biography that sort of said,
Look how amazing this woman is.I mean, see season, she amazing.
I mean, look at this. This isamazing. And that, you know,
kind of staying at that momentof sheer inspiration and
admiration, which is certainlywhat she does for me. And then
this question, this question isin a letter. She brings her art
to the head of the Museum ofDecorative Arts, and he says,

(05:47):
Oh, this is fantastic. We'llhave a show. And then he
disappoints her by saying, youknow, the selection committee
looked at your art, and they dothink it has a lot of merit, but
you're just an unknown, sothey're not going to do it. And
that's when she writes a letterto a friend, and she asks this
wonderful question. Of, I mean,this rhetorical, I mean, she
asked this profound question,right? And I went, Oh, that's

(06:08):
the question I need to answer.That's sort of the key. And I
want people to sit and sort ofstep back and say, Look at this
woman, like, what? Look at thedare to self that's embedded in
the question, that's what howI describe it in in my book,
like, who sits around saying,shucks, I'm not going to have a
show in the Louvre Museum,right? Like, when was the last

(06:29):
time that that occurred to you?First you have to think you're
going to have a show in theLouvre Museum, right? This is a
woman from the south of Chile,from a provincial town, an
undistinguished family, one of10 children. And here she is
thinking she's going to have ashow in the Louvre so that she
can be disappointed that she'snot right. And by the way, she
ends up having a show in theLouvre, right? So not only does

(06:51):
she think she deserves one, youknow, and then there's this very
disappointed rhetoricalquestion, like, what was I
thinking? And then she actuallyhas it. So to me that trying to
figure out, how does a womanfrom the south of Chile, from
undistinguished origins, with 10people in her family, managed to
make this sort of culturaljourney from there to the Louvre

(07:14):
Palace was really the guidingquestion of my biography. And I
think there were many answers.Obviously, the whole the book is
the answer to the question. Butthere were many, many barriers
and reasons why this woman wouldnot be able to have this show
ever, or, you know, even dreamof having it. And I think one of
the things Violeta Parra really did not know what the word impossible

(07:38):
meant, and she really tookherself very, very seriously.
And as an artist in a world thatyou know, didn't see woman as
you know, potentially, the womandidn't embody what an artist was
supposed to be, right? She wasjust, and certainly not poor
woman and and certainly not. Shecalls herself the ugliest woman
in the world, and I have to sayshe was considered, you know, I

(08:02):
put it in quotation marks, shewas considered ugly by many
people. And the reason was avery concrete one. When she was
seven, she had smallpox, well,she had pocked skin, that's
the way, I guess, you describeit. And that was just sort of
that wrote her off from thepossibility of being beautiful.
For many people, it was sort ofa defect. I don't know how many

(08:22):
quotes of people who loved VioletaParra, who'd say that she's
La fea, she's ugly, and evenon the floor of the
Congress and eulogizing her asshe died, the head of the
Socialist Party says, you know,she was very ugly, but what she
was so talented, so literally,the transcript of the, of the
Chilean equivalent of the Houseof Parliament says she's ugly
days after she died, right? Andmy favorite one was a disc

(08:45):
jockey that that worked withher. She said that she was
beautifully ugly. That's how hedescribed her,
so she was kind of like a womanthat you can and I don't think
that they really wrote off menquite the same way, because
physical beauty was lessimportant to the success of an
artist, a male artist, right? Ora male musician. But they,

(09:07):
literally, many people wrote heroffice as fea as ugly, and so
she's, she's certainly alsointernalized that. So she, you
know, when she says, I'm theugliest woman in the world,
there's a story behind that. Shewas, she was a female
entertainer who was not able touse her beauty as an asset,
which was very important,particularly, as you know,

(09:29):
glossy magazines are arriving inher lifetime, and, of course,
eventually television, right? Itook a part the quote, I hope
that's okay, to let you knowwe're coming from. And again,
how does she really overcame allof that. So she didn't have,
like, the physical beauty, whichwould have helped her become
more famous. She just had twiceas much talent as everyone else,
right? Or three times, or 10times. And she overcame all of

(09:52):
that. She didn't have the socialclass, the social connections.
She became the voice of thepeople. I mean, she was the
voice of the people. She hadthis. Incredible identification
with El Pueblo, the people, soshe didn't need to have social
connections, because she wasspeaking for most Chileans that
kind of thing. Yeah, yeah.

(10:12):
It's extremely interesting,because, of course, she's had to
battle with so many labels andthe ugly example, I wondered
whether, in fact, that made hermore defiant, as opposed to
letting it diminish her worth,because she had such high value,

(10:33):
didn't she on voice and ofcourse, as you discuss in the
book, authenticity, these werethings that were far more
important to her or herintentionality you could say.
Yeah, I love that at one point.I mean, she, she sort of tells
other women not to wear makeup.She's She called it self
sabotaging, right? You know,like, like you're supposed to

(10:55):
show the world your bare faceand who you are, and that was
the most important. And I shouldalso point out this is what a
woman with a very, very she, youknow, some people might have
called her ugly. She was clearlyvery attractive to other people,
and she had a very, very richlove life, and most of her
lovers were much younger thanherself. Yeah, yeah. Again. Only
reason I'm pointing that out isthat's a reversal of patriarchy

(11:17):
right in Latin America and Chileat the time her older brother
could have, you know, a loverthat was, you know, a wife that
was 20 years younger. No onebatted an eye. But the fact she
had younger lovers was, ofcourse, very scandalous. Yeah,
exactly. And this is what reallyinterests me, because, of
course, labels, you know,determined by who she was, very
clear on her own selfdetermination. One quote I

(11:41):
made a note of was when shesaid, "When I recalled the
poverty I had known, I realizedthat I had to place my artistic
abilities at the service of mypeople," and it was her
intention, or her mission, ifyou like, that was really her
power that she was far moreinterested in and I also felt

(12:02):
very courageous, because she'shaving to battle against so many
labels, so many forces thatwould discriminate against her,
absolutely.
So she's one of those womenartists. There's so many of them
that are difficult, right?They're angry, they're
difficult. You know, herbrother, the famous poet Nicanor,
reads a short poem about herwhen she's a vieja,

(12:24):
insupportable, she's anunbearable old woman, right?
It's just, you know, she onlylived on 49 so you know that
really shows the youthrevolution, you know. Or how you
know, if you're over 21 andyou're a woman, I guess you're
an old woman. And she has thiswonderful quote where she's
telling another friend who'salso a gender rebel, I consider,
I consider, you that the Parraagenda rebel, she did not live
by the very confiningconstrictions, you know,

(12:46):
limitations that were set ontowomen, the sexual double
standard, all of that stuff. Shekind of basically put that said
that all to hell. But she has afriend, Adela Gallo, who's the
first, one of the first Chileantruck drivers, and she becomes a
union leader of one of the, youknow, one of the locals of truck
drivers, and so they were verydear friends. And Violeta Parra

(13:06):
told Adela, you know, if Iweren't the way I were, no one
would listen to me, right? Soshe has to be difficult. She has
to be an angry woman, quote,unquote, because otherwise no
one will pay any attention toher whatsoever. So, you know,
it's kind of like she brokethrough. And then coming back to
this, that wonderful quote thatyou that she said, I think a lot
about her the power she hasthese protest songs that truly

(13:28):
still have the power of today.And you know, some protest songs
are specifically about a singleissue that they don't really
live on. They're topical, righttopic? Yeah, yeah. So her songs,
you know, aren't topical. Theylive. They still have the same
force today, even though shewrote them, you know, over 50
years ago, over 60 years ago, Iguess now. And I think one of

(13:50):
the reasons is because she isthe witness. I love that you
call her a witness anotherperson who's a musicologist who
wrote about her called her asocial geographer. So she
travels the length of Chile. AndChile is a very long country,
and she sees the conditions ofworkers in different parts of
the country with differentindustries. And she writes these
songs of witness because they'reharsh in terrible conditions.

(14:12):
Usually poor people work interrible conditions of
exploitation in Chile. And soone example I love to give is
this song called Arriba Que mando el sol. And this with the sun
burning down, it's aboutconditions in a mining camp in
the north of Chile. And sominerals are found in the most,
you know, harshest environments,right? So this is in the middle

(14:32):
of the Atacama Desert, which isthe driest desert on the planet.
And of course, there's minersliving there, because you need
people to work the mines, andthe miners have their families,
and the song describes theconditions of the miners, which
is to be expected, butVioleta Parra also always
saw women's labor. She neverwrote about men's labor without

(14:52):
also seeing women's labor. Soshe has a whole verse of the
song that talks about womenwaiting in line with their
buckets. At the single pump inthe town, because they're going
to fill their buckets and takethem back to the house. And
that's, you know, that's mostcommentary on mining, the mining
camps in those days, because,sort of the subject, the topic
was male workers, right? Was theminer, and maybe they'd

(15:16):
mentioned and his wife andchildren, but view at the bottom
saw the wives and she saw thelabor they were doing. And then
again, songs of witness, thelast verse always, she's always
first person. I went to thistown, this is what I saw. And
the last verse says, And I wentback to Santiago, and I said,
what's, you know, I told thewhole world, let, we have to
know about this, right? So it'sa very intentional songs of

(15:38):
witness. And the strength, Ithink, is in the first person
part that she's really, she'sonly writing about what she
knows,
yeah, yeah. And in terms of, youknow, the importance of folklore
versus nationalism at that time,and in terms of everything you
were just saying, I was reallyinterested in a song, I think

(16:00):
it's called the letter, ifthat's the right translation,
yeah. And I wondered if you'dlike to bring that to life for
the listeners, because I thinkit really captures the shocking
levels of repression thatexisted that she was railing
against.
Well, I would love to,and actually I would love to, if
it's okay with you, I might evenread some of the translation,
because one of the things I'mvery, very happy about in this

(16:22):
book. And so I'm going to take alittle tangent to tell you about
the translation, and then I'llcome back to the song. Yeah. So
Violeta Parra, of course,wrote hundreds of songs, and
then also she wrote, at onepoint, she writes her
autobiography in the traditionalfolk poetic metric of the
decimal, or stanza of a decimal,which is a 10 line verse. And

(16:44):
it's very, very prevalentthroughout Latin America. It's a
descendant of a poetic form thatcomes from Spain, directly from
the conquest. And people,because it's a 10 lines and
because they're very long poems,people use the decimal to tell
stories. Of people have heard ofMexican corridos. That's kind of
like that, like you tell they'rebad, it's a ballad form, right?

(17:04):
And so she writes, it's a poeticform that you know you can use
for balance, but you can alsouse it for recited poetry. And
she writes her autobiography indecimals. So there's a lot of
poetry and lyrics connected toVioletta para. And this is the
first biography of Violeta Parrain English. And to circle back
to La Carta, because one of thethings that Violeta Parra is very
well known for is she's, she'sconsidered the mother of the

(17:27):
new song movement. And the songmovement is a movement that
emerges when she's alive in the1960s think Bob Dylan, so she's
these people everywhere in the1960s they're called Guitar
poets, and people are writingthese fantastic songs of social
protest. It's a protest, youknow, and they and they kind of
know about each other, and viewthat part of is one of them. But
she's really one of the earliestones. She's, you know, she's a,

(17:50):
really a pioneer of themovement. And in Chile, the
movement ends up being calledthe New Song movement, la Nueva
Cancion movement, but onlyafter she dies in 1969 but it's
definitely happening in the1960s and it really explodes in
the 1970s under the socialistgovernment of Allende, the
Popular Unity government led bySalvador Allende, which is of

(18:11):
course overthrown then by thisbrutal military coup on
September 11, 1973 that bringsPinochet To power. And new song
becomes illegal, and theinstruments that they play
become illegal. And Victor Harais killed. He's a protest
singer. Musicians are torturedand imprisoned and sent into
exile, including via the partieschildren Isabel and Angela Parra.

(18:34):
But, but going back to her rolein this, because she's she's
dies in 1967 so before the highpoint of Nuevo Cancion, before
it takes its name as a movement,and also before its repression.
And one of the people call thissong La Carta, the Letter the
birth certificate of Nuevo Cancion because it's so
absolutely states why we need tosing, right? And so I will read

(18:59):
the translation. And I love thisbecause it also, just once more,
shows you the absolute firstperson witness characteristic of
unit, the part of songs. Shewrites the songs because her
brother, Roberto is in Santiago,and he's in jail. And he's in
jail because he went to ademonstration in support of
workers rights, and he wasarrested along with hundreds of
other people. And she gets aletter that her brother's in

(19:21):
jail, jail, and so this is abouthow she reacts to the letter.
This is long she writes havingread the letter, they sent me, a
letter in the early mail. Andthis letter, they tell me they
dragged my brother off to jail,and heartlessly, they shackled
him and threw him in a cell.Yes. The letter states the crime
that Roberto has committed hissupport of the strike that

(19:41):
already had finished. If thistruly is a crime, I should also
go to prison. Yes I am here sovery distant, awaiting
information because she's inParis, right? The letter comes
to tell me there's no justice inmy nation. Hungry people ask for
bread. Bullets fly inretaliation. Yes. And then she
goes. And I'm lucky to have aguitar so I can cry out my pain.

(20:03):
And I have nine brothers andsisters, besides the one that
they took away, they'recommunists, all nine with the
favor of God's grace, yes? Sothat's another wonderful moment
in the song where she saysthey're all communists thanks to
God, yeah, yeah, yeah. Such awonderful contradiction.
And also I took this from thedocumentary a Chilean

(20:25):
Embroiderer, where there wassuch important emphasis on
Violeta as a poet. And ofcourse, her brother became a
renowned poet, but she wasequally described as a poetic
genius and a deeply brilliantpoetess rooted in tradition. Do

(20:48):
you think that this is still tobe recognized, perhaps the not
just the genius of her as apoetess, but the power of her
universal truths that were bornfrom Chile and folklore. Well,
yes, when I say that peopledon't know who she is, and this

(21:08):
is the first English there's, Iwant to say there are, there are
millions of people in LatinAmerica who know her music right
now. Yeah, give the example ofGracias a la Vida, the song
Thanks to Life, which is whatgives my book its title. I chose
it for many reasons. It seemslike a very good title for a
biography, but it's also, itreally is her most famous song.

(21:29):
And so to give you an idea, Imean, if you go to any streaming
service, hundreds of people haverecorded this song. You
mentioned Joan Baez morerecently, Casey Musgrave has
recorded Yo Yo Ma in aninstrumental version of and, you
know, Omara Portuondo fromthe Buena Vista Social Club, if
your listeners have heard of it.And I think it's because of the
power and the universality ofthe message of the song, which

(21:50):
is, you know, thanking life forour senses, for hearing, for the
fact that we can form words forour feet that carry us across,
you know, this whole country,and then, of course, to your
home. And it's a love song aswell, but it's really just
thanking Oh, and the last verse,and I can read that one too,
because we have this beautifultranslation. But the last verse
that I really, I thinkencompasses so much, because

(22:13):
it's really, truly how life is.Thanks to life for all it has
given to me, given me, it hasgiven me laughter, it has given
me tears. And so I distinguishjoyfulness from sorrow, the
materials that together make upmy song and your song, which is
the same song, and everyone'ssong, which is my own song.
Yeah, yeah, it's beautifullypoignant, because I think it's

(22:38):
such an act of courage, and it'sso philosophical, because I'm
also hyper aware that, ofcourse, Gracias a la Vida was part
of her very last album, known asthe Last Compositions. And just
to insert here for thelisteners, this is only about a

(23:00):
year prior to her death, andI'll flag now to listeners that
tragically, Violeta Parracommitted suicide. So I
appreciate some people may wantto take a pause here or refer to
the transcript later, but we maymove on to that subject now. So
Erica, from that point of view,it was so significant that she

(23:21):
recorded that album as a series,if you like, of profound
messages. It felt like she wasalmost discussing the ethics of
love or morality or courage ordilemmas. Is that how you would
summarize it? Oh,
absolutely, I would. And I thinkI'm not the only one. I mean, I

(23:42):
think those of us who've triedto understand her life, or, you
know, just are drawn to her.This album is so important, as
she records it in October, andyes, she does commit suicide in
February of the next year. It'svery soon before her death, and
the songs are very new. So theywere written in the last years
of her life, or months even. Andthere's so much to this album.

(24:02):
One person called it atestament, which I think is
really or, you know, it's veryclearly the legacy she's going
to leave us. And one of thereasons people think this is the
song and the album in Spanish,she gives it the title, Ultimas
Compositions de Violeta Parra,which means latest compositions
of Violeta Parra. Ultimas, right?Ultimate. But ultimas in Spanish

(24:23):
also means last. It means bothlatest and last. So another
reading of the title of thealbum is last songs of Violeta
Parra and they truly were. Andthere's this incredible song.
There's very many beautiful,philosophical songs on this
album, some of her most wellknown. There's Volver a los
Diecisiete to return to the age of17. There's Gracias a la Vida,

(24:44):
but there's also this amazingsong called Maldigo del alto
cielo, I curse the skies above.And I'm not the first one to
have noticed this. It's just sonoticeable the elements, all of
the elements that she gives lifethanks to and thanks to life.
She curses in Maldigo del alto cielo and my book, I kind of
lined them up to show you know,she thanks life, that you can

(25:06):
hear the canaries in thecrickets of the Canaries, and
the other one, she curses thecrickets and the Canaries. You
know, it's like, it's literally,and then the one ends with one.
The refrain of one is thanks tolife, Gracias a la Vida, and the
other is Cuan grande es mi dolor.How great is my sorrow, how
great is my suffering, right? Sothey actually line up. And, you
know, I think there's abiographer need to discuss what

(25:30):
I call Violeta Parra's illness. I mean, she
successfully committed suicidein February of 1967 but it
wasn't her first attempt. Sothis is a woman who truly
battled with mental illness.And, you know, as a historian, I
don't want to diagnose her withsomething that didn't exist in
her culture at the time, thatdoesn't make any sense to me.
People pretty much justdismissed her as a kind of crazy

(25:53):
old lady, but, and, you know,angry and all of those other
things. But there was nodiagnosis for her. And that
said, I think that probably thediagnosis today would have been
bipolar, because she seemed tohave so much energy at times in
her life, I mean, unbelievableenergy, and then other times she
would, you know, not be able toget out of bed. And then there's
and then there's the suicide, ofcourse, and my best, my best

(26:17):
explanation, because, you know,I I've thought about this a lot.
Somebody told me something thatI think best describes what
happened. Somebody told me thatwhen people commit suicide, and
I know this is a very sensitiveyou know, again, if your
listeners needs to pause here,please, we understand that. But
what I've understood is someonesaid that people who commit

(26:38):
suicide not because they want todie, but because they want the
pain to stop. Yeah, that's trulyhow I understand Violeta Parra
I think what's so significant,of course, in that tragic choice
as to how she died, is this is alifetime of struggle. I think
pioneering and being courageousand being resilient comes with a

(27:03):
high cost. It's very hard, isn'tit, when you're on that kind of
roller coaster of battlingagainst various discriminations
alongside achievements andsuccesses, but you are
nevertheless on a rollercoaster, and I imagine at some
point resilience does geteroded. Well,

(27:24):
I mean, yeah, I think she wasworn down. There was so much
happening that was sochallenging in her life. At the
time she had there was thisexplosion of the folks seen in
Santiago, Chile. She gets backto Chile. She'd been living in
Paris and the Santiago folkscene. Think Greenwich Village,
right? Folk music is beingfinally listened to by young

(27:46):
people. It's very, very trendy.And her daughter and son are
sort of the stars of this, andthey rise because they're young
and they're beautiful andthey're talented. And then
there's their mother, who reallyis like, you know, I'd be sorry,
but as a songwriter, surpassesall of them. Her kids are
singing her songs. Her songs arebecoming famous because her kids
are singing them. And Violetasuddenly becomes the mother of,

(28:09):
you know, Isabel and Angel Parra when she's just incredible force
herself. And she doesn't feellike she's obsolete, right? She
feels like she's absolutely partof this. She again. She doesn't
know the word impossible. Shedoesn't know the word aging,
right? So there's a wonderfulpicture in one of the youth
magazines, probably a storyfeaturing her children, but it
is a picture of Violeta Parra wearing GO, GO boots, which I
just love, because she's in herlate 40s by then, and it's just,

(28:32):
you know, she feels part ofthis, and yet she's somehow
marginalized from it, right?She's she, you know, articles
talk about how she's one of theoldest ma santigo, which could
be old, it could be ancient. Itcould mean, you know, old
fashioned. It can mean so manythings. And then her children
are the up and coming ones. Andit's just, you know, I think
it's she really did feelsidelined. And she had a very,

(28:53):
very big ego, which I thinkmany, many artists, you know,
she has. She had both the depthsof despair that she was nothing.
And then also this sense of selfthat was very, very grandiose.
She sometimes talked aboutherself in the third person, not
sometimes, often, she oftenwould say, Violeta Parra has
arrived. You know, that thatthat bugged people, right? She
could have a strong sense ofself, but you she really had to

(29:15):
have it, you'd say. And sothere's this kind of isolation.
And she tries to open a folkclub, but it's way out in the
summer, it's like sort of in theboondocks of Santiago. It's hard
to get to. You can't get thereby public transportation. And it
becomes a very lonely place.It's this huge circus tent, but
it doesn't fill and actually itis where she commits suicide in
the end of her life in this,yeah, in the book, I use a

(29:38):
phrase from her own song, thisamazing song, I really hope
listeners will Google itimmediately. It's called El,
like the in Spanish, E, L,and then Gabilan, which means
sparrow hawk. And it's spelledG, A, B, I, L, A, N,
Gabilan. And it's thisexperimental piece for a guitar.

(30:00):
That's phenomenal. And
you highlight, don't you alyric, which is, "I have no place
to be."
Yo no tengo dondeestar. And she repeats it a
couple of times, and it getsslower and slower. Yo no tengo donde estar. Yo no tengo
donde estar. And thereit is, right? She she has no
place to be. She's too old,she's too communist. She's not

(30:20):
communist enough. She's a woman.She's not womanly enough. You
know, on and on, there's justno, there's no kind of cultural
niche for someone like VioletaParra, who just breaks all of
these barriers. And
it's so significant that all ofthis sits behind her mission as
a folklorist, collecting. Ithink it was, if I'm correct,
3000 plus songs that shepreserved and collected, and

(30:45):
also in terms of the new songmovement giving voice, you know,
there's the social injustices,as you were saying earlier,
describing equally theconditions of women's lives,
women as laborers, you know,unpaid laborers, but
nevertheless, laborers alongsidetheir male counterparts. And

(31:06):
this is also at a time when,prior to that, she had enjoyed
commercial success recordingwith her sister with RCA
Records. So I'm interested, ifyou'd like to bring to life with
the listeners that departure,when she decided to leave that
association with her sisterrecording together, and also the

(31:28):
impact of her brother, who wementioned before, who actually
told her go into the fields andcompile Chilean music from the
peasant world. And I think shewas 36 at the time?
Yeah? So, so no, yeah, this is agreat question. So, Violeta
Parra was born into a family thatwas, you know, it the her mother

(31:49):
was actually a campesina. Sothat means just, you know,
someone who agricultural work,or someone who wakes up in the
morning, and that's what yourfamily does, and that's what you
do. Live off the land. They hada small piece of land, but they
were also beholden to thelandlord. They were not
particularly wealthy at all, butthey were certainly compared to
many Chileans, they were nottenant farmers like they were
not incredibly poor either. AndNico nopara, her brother, always

(32:11):
likes to point that out, becausesometimes, you know, iconic
figures get mythologized andcertainly viewed at the body
even participated in her ownmythologization. I don't know
what the word would be, butanyway, one of the things that
people think about her is thatshe was always poor and always a
peasant. And that's just nottrue. So one of the things I
have to do is clarify that thatkind of myth is not true. But

(32:33):
she did. Her mother was, forsure, a campesino or peasant,
and Violeta Parra's, father was aschool teacher, which in a small
town means that you have somekind of cultural clout, right?
But he died very young, and soshe was. She truly knew poverty.
He died during the GreatDepression, and she and her
sisters viewed at the bottom,and her sisters went out, and
brothers, they went out and sangfor their supper, literally,

(32:54):
because kids figure out how toget food on the table with it,
you know, when they're poor andand they sang for their supper.
And then she's like 1314, and15. She's, she's touring with
these family circuses throughoutthe provinces of southern Chile,
you know, performing like this.She makes a living that way,
right? And then she'd go backand give money to her, her
mother, and at one point, herbrother, her older brother,

(33:15):
Nicanor, who's already, like,becoming recognized as a
wonderful, you know, mind andintellectual, and has this
wonderful scholarship to go to aboarding school in Santiago that
helps young, talented men, boys,right only, it's a boy school
from the become leaders. There'sno equivalent for women. She has
no option to go to that kind ofschool. It does not exist

(33:36):
because she's a girl. Butanyway, he brings her to
Santiago, and then, you know,she tries teaching school, which
is kind of like high school,teacher training school, and
that drops out because that'shis idea, that's not hers. And
she starts playing music againwith her siblings in these bars.
And honestly, if she had stayedin these bars, and even, you
know, she starts a duo with hersister, and they they record

(33:56):
some singles, and RCA Victor,and they're la Hermanas
the Para sisters, and they'regetting a little bit of a
following and some recognition,but if she had stayed doing
that, I there would not be abiography about her, probably,
because you wouldn't have reallyleft the confines of her
cultural milieu. And
I think she wouldn't have becomeher own author in many ways.

(34:17):
Well, she wrote lots of songsthen, but none of them have kind
of endured because they werevery commercial sounding, right?
So yeah. And she wrote COVIDthose, but we don't really know
about them. She wrote songs, asher sister famously said, we
played what the public asked,what they wanted, yeah. And so I
agree with you that it wasn'tnecessarily her voice, it showed
her talent, but it wasn'tnecessarily it was so confined

(34:40):
to a certain structure and idea.And you know, what you had to
say about love in a bolero wassort of limited, right? It
wasn't universal, necessarily.And she starts thinking about
the songs that she learned inher youth, and these folk songs
and in the 1950s and her brotherencourages her. And she's also
definitely. Part of a movement,you know, as well. I mean, she's

(35:01):
part of a folk revival in Chile.That's also, you know, kind of
happening. It's a transnationalfolk revival. England's having a
folk revival then as well, andin the 50s. And so people are
realizing that the old song, theold songs, are dying out. The
old songs that were passed downthrough oral tradition are dying
out because the singers aredying out. They're old people.

(35:22):
Young people are learning songsfrom the radio and from albums,
right? So, so a lot of peopleall over the world feel this
urgent need to go out andcollect the songs and view that
the Parra is one of them. And shejust becomes absolutely
passionate about travelingeverywhere in her country to
collect songs. She collects1000s, as you point out, and she
really, you know, spares herselfno discomfort to go there. She

(35:44):
learns how to ride a horse, youknow, she'll go, and she'll stay
for two weeks, three weeks, andsomeone's literally a hut, you
know, a poor person's house, andcollect every song that they
know, and you know, become partof the family, in a sense, and
help with the daily chores. Andshe that really becomes her
passion, and also becomes sortof her poetic language that she
uses, she draws from later, andit's really a transformative

(36:08):
moment for her, because it'saway from whatever the public
wants and whatever will earn usa living, which is, you know,
perfectly respectable. I mean, Ithink that's a respectable
profession and way of doingthings, but it's a way towards
the authentic, to what reallymatters, what endures, what
speaks of Chilean culture, whatspeaks of Chilean people. And

(36:29):
I also liked that it wasreferred to as a curious search,
because I think curiosity issuch an important quality to
have, that openness, wanting todiscover and and find this
folklore, to preserve andprotect it. And
she had this very broaddefinition, you know, some of

(36:50):
the, some of these moreacademic, uh, folklorists, you
know, these collectors, we hadall sorts of restrictions. Well,
first of all, you couldn'tcollect a dirty song, because
that would be like bad, right?That would be vulgar. And she
had a lot of folklore. Doubleentendre. What is it in English?
I guess it's French doubleentendre right? You know these
double meanings, right? Yeah,yeah, they're wonderful. And,

(37:11):
you know, there are a lot ofsongs that are anti clerical, as
I don't know about the Englishtradition, but certainly in
French and Latin America. So shecollects, so she doesn't limit
herself to just the proper folksongs, right? But the other
thing she does, which a lot ofthe more you know, I would what
would you call it, the thestuffed shirt sort of academics
didn't like, was she would alsoinclude what were really kind of

(37:33):
urban or industrial folkinstruments. So at one point,
she's hired. The only job sheever got was she actually got
paid to be a folkorista. She'shired by the the University of
Concepcion in the South of Chileto put together a museum of folk
art. And she puts in a large oilcan, right? That that the
truckers in that region use as apercussion instrument once it's
empty. And, you know, people arescandalized. Some people are

(37:55):
scandalized like, how can youput that can in a museum with
all of our beautiful folkinstruments? And her point is,
it is also a folk instrument,right? It's used by the people
to make music. So there is thatoil can, right there, yeah. So
she's very inventive, curious.She broke down a lot of
boundaries, sort of, yeah, yeah.
And it's also interesting,actually, in terms of her

(38:17):
emphasis on curiosity, that inParis, a quote, actually, where
she says, "Paris has not changedme. It is here that I have found
the solution to my artisticcuriosity." And there was two
things in that that interestedme, how you might explain her
artistic curiosity, but also younote, in fact, that there was a

(38:42):
profound transformation, andthat was perhaps an even greater
determination to preserveChilean folklore.
Yes. I mean, it's part of alarger sort of discussion of
what authenticity means and howit can kind of pigeon hole you
in a strange way, because, ifyou're, you know, people were

(39:02):
drawn to Violeta Parra, and shepromised it, and she meant it,
because she represented the realshe wasn't gonna, you know,
dress up funny or, you know, youknow, give you something false,
a falsification of folklore, akind of commercialization. She
was going to give you the realthing, the raw thing. And if you
listen to her sing, she has thiswonderfully untrained voice that

(39:23):
some people thought was ugly,but most people, you know, felt
was real, right? Like they heardit and they went, Oh, this is
the real thing. This is what,what women in Chile, in the in
the South of Chile, sing like,and sound like and, and, you
know, in Europe, but also evenin urban Santiago, but
especially in Europe and Paris,you know, there's this. Paris is
going through this culturalboom, and also this kind of

(39:44):
moment of alienation, which is,you know, we're probably still
in where, you know, commercialculture, you know, I call it in
France at the time, it's theTrente Glorieuse. There's three
decades of glorious economicgrowth. And so that means that
people now can buy washingmachines and they can buy this.
They can buy that. But there'salso this sense of the emptiness
that all of this consumerismgives you, right? Because

(40:05):
they're not coming together. Andso there's a real search for the
authentic. I mean, that's noother way to authentic
experience in the face of massconsumerism, right? And mass
society, and Parra becomesone of many, many symbols of
authenticity in Europe. I mean,I hate to say it, but, you know,
choose your flavor, certainlyjazz, right? You know, black,

(40:25):
African American jazz. She hasthis show in the Louvre that's
called, it's actually advertisedas Chilean tapestries, and
underneath is her name. Becausewhat's important is, it's from
Chile it's far away. It'stapestries. And I say in the
book, you know, next week, itcould be next month, it could be
Indonesian puppets, right? Andwith the name of someone we

(40:46):
don't remember, she, in a sense,when she says that she's going
to be always real. In a sense,she has to promise to be
unchanging, right? That's whenshe says, Paris hasn't changed
me. She has to say, I'm going tobe this constant source of the
real no matter what your thelatest fad is, yeah, and she
says, you know, she says thatshe's, you know, still tied to

(41:08):
this kind of, this richtraditions of Chile, which she
is, but she's not allowed, she'sreally not allowed to evolve.
For that reason. She almost getsstuck in that association with
folklore. So people don't noticewhen she sort of starts
exploding with all of this otherart like this, these incredible
piece that I talked to youabout, which is absolutely a

(41:28):
modern composition, a totalplays around with rhythms. It's
12 pieces long. It's phenomenal.And this is by a woman who's
never studied music and does notknow how to write music. I mean,
it's just fantastic piece, butpeople don't associate her with
that. She's, she's this littlefolkloric object, you know, and
exotic, and she's not reallyallowed to evolve as an artist.
But the other side of it is, sheis in Paris in the 1950s she's

(41:52):
playing in a folk in a club inParis, you know, the quartier,
the Latin Quarter. But one of themusicians that plays in the
exact same club, it's called theskull is Garcia Marquez because
he's there. Gabriel GarciaMarquez is in Paris at the time
writing his novel, and he needsto make a living. And you make a
living by make playing folk,Latin American folk music for
French people. So he's there.He's Soto, who's a visual

(42:13):
artist, is part of his duo. Imean, the number of people, and
Gabriel Garcia Marquez is theone who refers to Paris in the
1950s as the capital of LatinAmerica, because it's where
Latin Americans are meeting,right? And that includes, you
know, it affects the music. Itaffects everything. And she's
there and she sees this, and,you know, she goes back to Chile
and she's going to be everythingagain. This is a woman who

(42:35):
doesn't know what impossible is,or that she shouldn't be doing
other things, you know, so onthe ocean liner back to Chile is
when she starts composing theseamazing pieces for guitar, and
that the traditional song ofChile is the Cueca. She calls
them anti cuecas, right? Becausethey have all of the elements of
the Cueca, but they're not a cueat all, right? They're
completely new extensions. Andof course, it's also homage to

(42:57):
her brother, Nicanor Parra whosefirst book that kind of made him
internationally known as calledanti poems, or anti poems. And I
think she sees that her, youknow, her friends who are
musicians, are also visualartists, and she decides she can
be an artist. It's
really interesting, I think, howthe book draws out quite a
complicated relationship withwhat she can and can't do with

(43:18):
authenticity and its definition.So, as you were just
highlighting when she was abroador when she was in Paris, for
example, she's seen as authenticChilean. But for example, if she
was back in Chile, she wouldjust be Chilean. Or there was an
interesting description of howdiscrimination would work if you

(43:41):
were short, brown, perceived aspoor, that could meet very
dismissive discrimination, butabroad, that could be valued as
markers of artisticauthenticity, right, right?
Yeah, no, it's a, there's awhole sort of, and I don't ever,
ever want people to give theimpression that I'm saying she's

(44:02):
she's false or fake, but thereis a certain amount of
malleability in terms of heridentity, a certain
responsiveness to what otherpeople think. And also, I would
say, a certain subversion,because there's a playfulness
and how she does it. So inChile, Viola Parra, doesn't have
she's not considered indigenous.And most Chileans, who clearly

(44:25):
have some indigenous ancestry,are not considered indigenous
because Chile is a very mestizoor mixed country, and indigenous
people in Chile at the time atleast, were culturally defined.
So if you lived in certaincommunities, you lived in
certain kinds of housing, youspoke certain languages, you
dressed a certain way you wereindigenous, but if you left that
town and you dressed anotherway, you would be Chilean,
right, pretty much, right. So itwas a very much a cultural

(44:47):
definition. So VioletaParra, was clearly not
indigenous. She didn't speak theindigenous language, she didn't
dress, and she wasn't from oneof those communities, so it
wasn't even a question, but shegets to Argentina. Argentina is
the first place where thishappens in Argentina. Sort of
famous for consideringthemselves the Europe of Latin
America, because they had such astrong element of European

(45:07):
immigration, and also because ofracism, and also because they
really killed most of theirindigenous and African
population. So so, you know,it's that also helped in terms
of proportion, rightproportionality. Anyway, they
this woman, this man, isinterviewing Violeta Parra, and
we don't know she said it or hesaid it, but that's the first
time she suddenly has anindigenous grandmother, right?

(45:30):
Can try to find the quote. Ireally want you to sense how
incredibly exoticizing the timesare, it was just that the
way people wrote about about herwas just quite an amazing here
we go, an interview. So this ishow he describes her. She is,
quote, The High Priestess offolklore, the oddest, most

(45:52):
charming and most famouscharacter in all of Chile." End
quote, awaiting discovery byArgentina. He goes on to
describe her as a quote, "alittle Indian India Sita, whose
Mapuche great grandmother hadmolded her facial traits,
braided her straight black hair,and lit up her eyes with the
horizons waters." So you know,suddenly she's got this

(46:13):
indigenous great grandmother.And then over the this is in 62
the interview, and over thecourse of the next three years
in Europe. And I'm sorry, butit's really little. Literally
measurable. She then has agrandmother, and then she has a
mother, and at one point, somepeople are saying she's
indigenous. And to be veryclear, we don't know whether
she's telling them this orpeople are assigning it to her,

(46:35):
and she's just not correctingthem. But it's, you know, it's
not something that happens inChile. It only happens in Europe
and in Europe, because peopleare looking for that primordial
kind of the authentic, the thereal, the earthen, you know,
earthly, versus everything thatthey find so alienating. It
actually helps, you know, ithelps that people see her and

(46:56):
perceive her that way, yeah,
because her sincerity and herallegiance was so unwavering in
terms of, you know, representingthe people, being one of the
people, that allegiance andsincerity was so important.
Yeah,
she was who she was, you know,she wasn't. She didn't. Whatever

(47:17):
she did, she did 100% let's makeit 110% you know, because it was
was so over the top, and reallyher beliefs were the same. She
actually argued that the songsshe wrote were folklore, not
original songs, because she wasPueblo, so she was people, and
it's akin to Bob Dylan in theUnited States,
yeah. And it's so interesting,isn't it, when you look at

(47:37):
protest music and in differentcultural and political
frameworks. And actually, youknow, thinking about the impact
of Violetta para on your ownlife, in terms of your own
musical life, you've establishedtwo bands described as new song
groups, Sabia and Desbordes. Iwondered if you could tell us a
little more about that. In termsof, you know Parra's own impact on

(48:03):
you and the importance of musicin your own life.
Well, yes, and if I could goback sort of to pre the band,
because I would have never beenin the band the way I discovered
Violeta Parra's music was inhigh school. I was in high
school. I was in a suburb ofBoston. Quite dull. I think it
was 1974 and a family ofChileans arrived in my town, and

(48:24):
they were really interestingpeople. They were, as far as I
was concerned, the mosthappening thing in my town. The
father was studying radicalpedagogy. The mother was an
actress, and she played the partof mother in Berto Brecht's play,
The mother who I had never heardof Berto Brecht, so I saw my first
Berto Brecht play. Thanks to this family and
the children my age were artistsand musicians. And Miguel, who

(48:47):
was my age, was also incrediblyangry because his country was
being destroyed. People werebeing killed and tortured. Books
were being burned, records werebeing destroyed, and it was
funded by the CIA. And in ourhigh school. We didn't know
anything about it. We knew therewas a Vietnam War. We had no
idea there was a coup in Chile,none. And so my political

(49:08):
awakening sort of came with mymusical awakening. I learned via
that the bada songs this familyhad smuggled out protest music
because they had, since they hadpermission to leave because the
father was studying in theUnited States, they smuggled out
all of this protest music thatwas otherwise, you know, would
have put them in jail. And theway they did it was they bought
brand new military band marchingmusic and albums, and they put

(49:30):
the protest of albums inside thesleeves of this marching band
music military and then verycarefully ironed the sleeves
shut with the plastic so itlooked like they had never been
opened and then out of thecountry, and the touring, exiled
musicians would stay on thefloor of their living room. So
music was so important to theChilean resistance, and I sort
of landed right in the middle ofthe Chilean resistance in this

(49:53):
in Boston, right? So by myfriendships and that really
shaped my life. So I went off tocollege in freshman week, I met
these other musicians that alsoplayed Latin American music. And
we started singing, you know,the, basically the repertoire of
those Chilean exiles and other,you know, other groups, because
we were all women. It soundedlike, I don't know if you've
ever heard these, but theyhave these deep voices, and it's
very beautiful. So we were allSopranos. So I joked that we

(50:15):
were like the Alvin and theChipmunks version,
because we were like, butanyway. But you know, it was
wonderful to sing, and we becameuseful. I think music has a real
purpose. So Sabia, we were weplayed all sorts of events, and
we ended up becoming a touringgroup, and we played all over
the United States in the 1980sdoing mostly solidarity work
with Central America. Was, ofcourse, with this Argentina, the

(50:37):
Southern countries, butthen later with Central America,
because we were also fundingthese horrific military
governments in Central America.And then when that band
disbanded, some of us justcontinued on with Desbordes.
They, which means overflowing,
and also kind of border like youthink of it that way. That's
interesting, because, of course,borders are, yeah, are such a

(51:03):
huge issue in terms of, youknow, sadly, far right marches,
the growing far right presenceacross the world, in terms of,
you know, engendering hatred.The USA has started its second
Trump presidency, and of course,that's very markedly about deep

(51:24):
division. We've had similar inthe UK deep division over Brexit
and governments. So I'minterested in the current
context. So for example, I knowthat President Trump has
disbanded the Committee on artsand humanities, for example,
recently as an executive order.So in terms of we've been
talking about protest songs, youknow, Violeta Parra, the new

(51:47):
song movement, your bands. Doyou see a new surgence of that
of the power of music, theimportance of music, because
creativity, diversity anddemocracy seem to be
intrinsically bound. It can't betaken away or oppressed in some
way.

(52:08):
Oh, absolutely. People areconstantly organizing events and
concerts and singing about thesethings. And I don't know if you
know, but they write corridoslike left like, there's just
been corridos about the minuteTrump does something, someone
will write a corrido about it.So corridos are these
storytelling songs, and they'reyou can write them fast because
there's a whole you can borrowmelody. Nobody cares, right?

(52:29):
Yeah, no. People are using musicas protesting. We think a lot
about it that those of us whoare still the singers from
Desbordes, that we've been singinga lot because the book came out.
So we've been singing a lot ofyou at the bottom songs lately,
at book launches and stuff, andit's just you have to
understand, I'm singing withwomen that I've been singing
with for decades, and it justfeels like such a privilege. I
can't even describe it. It'svery moving. I feel like I see

(52:51):
my whole life in front of me allthe time now. But we also, you
know, it's strange that, youknow, one thing about the folk
music of the 60s was a guitar.You know, guitars are portable.
You can take them anywhere. Youcan lend them to a friend, you
know, and they're very peoplewere making music a lot. And
then, of course, in the UnitedStates, the civil rights
movement was absolutelyaccompanied by music. You know,

(53:13):
there was not a march. Youmarched to music, and you made
the music, you sang the music.And I think that's not
necessarily the kind of massive.It happens in Latin America all
the time. You like, in LatinAmerica, there's you go to a
rally, and they can sing everysingle word of you that the Parra
songs, and they do, and thenthey'll sing every single word
of you know other songs from the80s. They kind of don't forget

(53:35):
the old songs. They keep themall in the repertoire. And they
absolutely, music is part of thestruggle, and I've been to a lot
of marches in the United Statesrecently, and we have some
chance, but we're notnecessarily singing together.
And I think it's I personallythink we need to find songs and
need to start singing together.I mean, we need to do many
things together right now, whenyou ask me these questions, you

(53:57):
probably know well, just todescribe how anxious everyone
is. I work for a publicuniversity. We have probably the
largest undocumented populationon any campus in the country. I
live in Los Angeles, and even ifyou're not undocumented, you
are. You know, the chances thatyou are a mixed status family,
or that someone you love, andit's just it's impossible to

(54:18):
even fathom what's happening. Wehave students that can't sleep
anymore. We and it's like we dotell them that we will, you
know, be there for them, that wewill, you know, link arms and
everything it we don't know whatwe can tell them to that that'll
make them feel like they'resafe, because we're all that we
talk people are being deported.We know that people are being

(54:39):
deported for no reason. We knowthat people are being deported
there was, I, just friend ofmine who does fundraising and is
really active in this wonderful,wonderful organization that
helps women that get out ofprison, you know, find just have
a house over, have a, excuse me,a roof over their head, right?
And a meal, right? That'sliterally what the organization
does. And so they have a housewhere women can go. Oh, I mean,

(55:01):
I'm going to start, I don't knowif I'm going to start screaming
or cry, but they you ICE just isnot allowed ICE, which is
immigration, is not allowed intopeople's houses without a the
kind of warrant they have. Youcan say, you and I'm not going
to open the door. They're notalso not allowed in your car,
because we still have someconstitutional protections.
Thank God in the United States,so illegal searches are not

(55:23):
allowed. What they did was herparole they went to this house.
The parole officer told a woman,a trans woman, that she needed
to come outside to sign somepapers. When your parole officer
asks you to do something, you doit, right? I mean, what are you
gonna do? So she went outsideand ICE was waiting for her.
That's how they got her outsideof the house. The ICE could take
her away. And it's like herparole officer called, like,

(55:47):
what are we supposed to do? AndI just, I'm just telling you the
tiniest little story I got thismorning on my text because my
friend texted it to me. But Icould go, I mean, I could take
up the next five hours tellingyou stories like this. And I
mean, I, I don't have an answer.I mean, you can hear my if I'm
anxious, and I'm, you know, wasborn in the United States, and,

(56:07):
you know, I have, I don't knowhow, and that's just one tiny
corner of the ugliness that'sgoing on in our country. Yeah.
Well, this certainly brings meto the last two questions.
Sadly, the time alwaysabsolutely zooms by. But this is
very relevant to the fact thatthis season, season eight, first
publishes on February the 20th,which is the United Nations day

(56:31):
for social justice. And thetheme is empowering inclusion
and bridging gaps for socialjustice. And I'm really
interested, particularly in ourinterview, how relevant that is,
in terms of everything VioletaParra fought for, and
everything that you're talkingabout now, in terms of how

(56:54):
people can empower themselves,and again, the relevance of the
arts, the power of music as partof that empowerment.
Well, I mean, I think that'swhat Violeta Parra, one thing that,
you know, she was a verycontradictory woman. She she did
many, many different things inher life, you know, was it was a
challenge, wonderful challengingin the most wonderful way, to

(57:15):
try to capture her in a book.Because, you know, she's just, I
hope many people write booksabout her. There's no way you
could ever write everything thatthere was that needs to be
written about her. She's thatwonderfully prolific and complex
and just wonderful. But one ofthe things that you can really
say is her sense of socialjustice was just profound,

(57:36):
unwavering. She knew she waspart of and who she represented,
and that was the people. AndChile was divided at the time
into very, very, very, many,very poor people, a few rich
people, and a tiny middle class.And you know, it was really
clear where you were and whatyou stood and who you're aligned
allegiances was, and I'm sorry,but I think that really, truly
also describes our world today,right? And so I feel like

(57:59):
everything that she stood forstill matters. And I feel like
she's absolutely and I know sheis. I mean, for this, people who
do speak Spanish and sing inSpanish, her songs are being
used by student movements acrossLatin America right now. They're
being used by feminist movementsacross Latin America. They're
being repurposed. They can, youcan update a few lyrics here and
there, so that it talks aboutthe struggles of today, and the

(58:22):
struggles of today are very,very reminiscent of the
struggles that she and shereally, truly did believe that
we together could create a morejust world. And I think that
there's many of us, you know,even, even as we're facing the
kind of this kind of super fasthorror of we can't believe how
few days he's been in office,but already he has been half of

(58:45):
the executive orders that thatTrump has sort of issued or
already completely stopped inthe courts. I mean, I don't
think we should, I don't I thinkwe should be we should feel what
we're feeling, because it'sreal. And I think we should also
not give up hope because this,it's because we're more.
Nosotras somos mas. That's one ofthe wonderful expressions in
Latin America, somos mas. We aremore. There are more of us. And

(59:08):
I think, you know, and I thinkthat what's beautiful too. I
mean, you're interviewing me inBritain with the same, the same
kind of concerns, and youprobably could talk for another
five hours about what'shappening in your country, and
how it's the same, but also howpeople are organizing and
showing how wonderful and howcollective and together we can

(59:28):
be, and how we can bring we cansee,
yeah, and I think the word hopeis so important, and that brings
me to the last question, BecauseI think Arts is certainly an
important arena to collectivelyenable us to be hopeful and to
be joyous, and actually, thatneeds to be part of our activism

(59:52):
in many ways. And so I'mcurious, Ericka, how you might
respond to the question, Can artsave us? Yes,
oh my goodness. I think it's theonly thing that can save us. I
truly do. I'll just share, if Icould share, a personal story.
So, so, I wrote this book,right? And it's taken me decades
to write. It is my life's work,but, you know, it's just a book

(01:00:14):
anyway. But so I wrote thisbook, and then meanwhile, while
I was booked, you know,supposedly a book launch is a
big deal, like the date is what matters? So, you know, you
write, you work onsomething for decades, and then
January 15, 2015 was the day mybook was released. And so I
planned a book release party.Because not just party, I
planned a book launch, but I'm amusician. So I planned, planned

(01:00:36):
a book launch concert. And wehad nine musicians, including
myself, lined up, and we weredoing, you know, a repertoire of
Violeta Parra songs. And Iprobably brought this idea up in
September, right? Because, youknow, you takes a long time to
get these musicians together.They have to agree. We've been
rehearsing. It's been great fun.You have to get a venue and
anyway. And then, of course,Trump wins the elections. I
don't know if you know aboutthis, but we had terrible,

(01:00:57):
terrible fires in in LosAngeles. So everything is
connected. So it's 2025 comesthe concert book launch, which
has been slated for a long time,is for January 25 2025 I'm
playing with nine musicianswho've known each other for
years. Three of us havebirthdays that week. Mine
happens to fall on January 20,2025, which happens to also

(01:01:21):
be Inauguration Day in theUnited States. So the day of my
birthday, Trump comes to power.The next Libby is the 21st and
Mattie is the 24th so we allhave birthdays. The next day is
the book launch concert birthdayparty, the Tuesday, Tuesday, I
guess about 10 days before theconcert is going to happen. I

(01:01:43):
get a text from Gary and Libby,who are evacuating their home.
They say, Don't worry, we haveour instruments that we're
playing in the concert withthis, which means they left all
of their other instruments inthe house. The house burned to
the ground. We on Saturday. Isaid, Do you guys still want to
rehearse? And they said, Yes, wewant to rehearse, and then we're
playing the concert. We do thisconcert. It was really quite

(01:02:03):
phenomenal. It felt almostembarrassing to bring people
together for such a joyousoccasion. But everyone kept on
telling me, Ericka, we need this.And we held it in a church where
everyone is welcome. And theminister opened the whole I
said, you know, you need totalk. You need to bring us
together, because we're all insuch terrible places. She
basically said, Why were wetogether. And it was about a

(01:02:24):
book, and it was about aconcert, but it was about
community. And so that's how theevening started. It was standing
room, only people from all sortof aspects, just all different
generations were there, and itwas we did come together. And
then the very last song, ofcourse, was Gracias a la Vida,
thanks to life, and I'm supposedto start it. And I realized that
my guitar, my low E, is tuneddown to a D, so I have to turn

(01:02:47):
it up. And when people you knoware on stage, they cover for
each other. When you have totake time off right and Libby,
whose house burnt down rightbefore we sang the final song of
our concert, said, My houseburned down. I'm sorry. I'm kind
of crying, this is myhouse, I lived in that house.
I know the house, and it was herhome, her childhood home, and so

(01:03:09):
she goes. My house burned downthis week, and I lost
everything, but rehearsing forthis concert has given me joy,
yeah, yeah. And so I think if wecould find it, I'm saying this
crying, ways to give each otherjoy and respite in these really
hard times. I believe that joyis a form of resistance, yeah,

(01:03:29):
certainly a form of resistanceto hatred.
Yeah, yeah. Ericka, this isincredibly generous of you to
share such an emotionallypowerful story, and I'm so glad
that you were able to share thatit you know, it's been prominent
in the news, and the truth ofthat impact and yet to rise with

(01:03:52):
the importance of community, theimportance of joy and that sense
of activism is so incrediblyimportant. I can't thank you
enough for making so much timeto join me today Ericka. I'd
like to thank the listeners asalways, if you can, please do
share this episode or this freeto listen series to help make

(01:04:16):
the arts all of ours. Ericka,your biography is a beautiful
work of art in its own right.The stories you have shared have
been so important, and I imagineit remains to say, Gracias a la
Vida Absolutely.
Well. Thank you, Paula, this isI didn't expect that to end this

(01:04:36):
way, but it really has been ajourney to just talk to you, and
I it's lovely to be interviewedby someone where you feel like
you could talk for hours, but Iagree, we kind of have to cut
this off now. But thank you.Thank you so much for this
opportunity.
Oh, you're more than welcome.And yes, I would love to have
carried on, but we willhopefully cross paths and talk
again.
I hope so. Yeah, because I thinkthat's a very special

(01:04:58):
interviewer that makes you feelthat way. So. Thank you again.
Oh, that's very kind
be on the show. Thanks so much.Thank you, and we'll keep a part
two in mind. Thank you again.