February 20, 2025 • 63 mins
Gabriela Elisabeth Edawani Fernandez, known as Ina Leah, is a transdisciplinary artist and her work is rooted in the practices of the indigenous Lamaholot people of East Nusa Tengara, home of her cultural heritage. The Lamaholot people are indigenous to the southernmost province of Indonesia and the small islands around it. It's an area of natural beauty. Gabriela weaves together art and wellbeing practices, including improvisational music, expressive painting, collective dance, traditional crafts, and moving image. There's a deep level of integration between the different disciplines she works with, building a holistic knowledge and respect for cultural heritage. She's deeply inspired by cultural traditions and collective participation that understands the interconnectedness of humans and the natural world. As a contemporary artist, you can also find Gabriela Fernandez on Spotify, along with well over 16,000 listeners. For a celebration of musical heritage, oral tradition and sound art. Ina is deeply sensitive to noise. She talks openly about her ADHD and autism and as a neuro-divergent creator she understands the need for calm in our lives. Gabriela is committed to the healing powers of art on our physical and mental wellbeing, and the name she has given herself as an artist reflects healing. Leah is an anagram of the word heal, and Ina means mother in the Lamaholic language. We talk about her mission in holistic health, grounded in cultural identity.
Discover Ina Leah https://www.artwithinaleah.com/
The Embodiment of Care https://www.artwithinaleah.com/embodimentofcare-improvisation
Series Audio Editor - Joey Quan.
Series Music - Courtesy of Barry J. Gibb
Closed Captions are added to all audio interviews in this series.
Read only, text transcripts of every interview, news, reviews and your host, Paula Moore, are available here: https://canartsaveus.com/
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:03):
Welcome to thispodcast series asking the
question, Can art save us? I'mstarting the first national and
international conversation aboutcourage and curiosity. What do
these qualities really mean, andwhy does it make a big
difference to our mental,societal and democratic health?
I talk to award winning anddiverse artists across the arts
(00:24):
to explore these qualities intheir lives and work both to
inspire and for us all to learn.I'm exploring why we need these
qualities to help change theglobal epidemic of mental
illness, loneliness,polarization of our communities
and even global conflict. If thearts cultivate courage and
curiosity, I'm asking thequestion, Can art save us? My
(00:49):
guest today is Gabriella,Elisabeth Edawani Fernandez, and
her artist name is Ina Leah. She'sa transdisciplinary artist,
weaving together art andwellbeing practices, including
improvisational music,expressive painting, collective
dance, traditional crafts andmoving image. There's a deep
level of integration between thedifferent disciplines she works
(01:10):
with building a holisticknowledge and respect for
cultural heritage. Gabriella'swork is rooted in the practices
of the indigenous Lamaholot people of East Nusa Tenggara,
the home of her culturalheritage. The Lamaholot people
are indigenous to thesouthernmost province of
Indonesia and the small islandsaround it. It's an area of
(01:31):
natural beauty. She's deeplyinspired by the cultural
traditions and collectiveparticipation that understands
the interconnectedness of humansand the natural world. As a
contemporary artist, you canalso find Gabriella Fernandez on
Spotify, along with well over16,000 listeners for a
celebration of musical heritage,oral tradition and sound art.
(01:55):
Gabriella is deeply sensitive tonoise. She talks openly about
her ADHD and autism and as aneurodivergent creator, she
understands the need for calm inall our lives. In fact, she has
already created a gift for you,the urban lullaby on her
website, offering you a space toharmonize amongst the noise.
(02:16):
She's committed to the healingpowers of art on our physical
and mental well being. And theartist name she has given
herself reflects healing. Leahis an anagram of the word heal.
And Ina means mother in theLamaholot language. It can also
refer to mother, earth and theocean. This is a name of
nurture, nature and healing,connecting the human and natural
(02:39):
world as one. And Ina is anartist with a mission in
holistic health and creativeexpression for everyone. Hello
Gabriella, and welcome to Can Art Save Us? Hi, Paula.
I've been very, very muchlooking forward to talking to
you, and enjoyed following youon Instagram. So thank you again
(03:01):
for getting in touch. It'sreally lovely to follow your
work. Thank
you so much. That's yeah, thankyou so much. I'm really excited
to be here. Oh,
bless you. Well,I wouldlike to start with your mission,
because you have a very, veryclear message that art heals and
connects. And I really like howyou emphasize art isn't an
(03:27):
exclusive luxury, but in fact,it's a common language. It's
something that brings peopletogether across cultures and
generations. So I'm interestedin how you have developed your
practice and whether that hascome from a belief and your own
(03:48):
cultural upbringing. Yeah. Thankyou
so much, Paula. I think art forwellbeing, and art or art and
wellbeing is a big tagline thathas been the core of my practice
that has goes for like, severalyears, I don't know, 10 years, I
guess. And I think it's alsovery, very related to my
(04:11):
upbringing, my family, we arevery musical, not in a
professional way, but we alwayssing in our family meetings, in
our family events, and we reallyenjoy doing that. And in our
culture, almost all of thecelebration, it involves music
(04:33):
or dancing or art in some ways.So art is very integrated in a
social life, and it's notsomething that is separate, for
example, for now, if now we canonly enjoy art or music in the
form of stage or ticketedevents. In my culture, it is
(04:54):
something that it's like therein our daily lives. It's very
apparent and. And yeah, veryclose to our hearts. And I think
my art for well being mission isalso related to my
neurodiversity, where I alwaysuse my art to sometimes to calm
(05:14):
myself or to ground myself, orto find out who I am, to figure
out how I can express my needsto people, how I can
communicate, how I can conversewith people in another form of
language. Because sometimes Ithink as an autistic person, I
think in pictures a lot, insteadof in verbal words. So I think
(05:41):
when I paint, or when I createart in some forms, or when I do
melodies, I feel like it helpsme connect with other people
much better than using words. SoI really, really want to open up
how art can be accessible formore people to be able to be
(06:01):
used as a tool, to connect withother human beings, or to
connect with even the earth,even the nature, to connect with
themselves, to connect with thevalues that has started to be
forgotten, and to be used as atool to help themselves in terms
of their well being. So yeah, inmy workshops, I always, always,
(06:25):
always emphasize how I want artto be accessible for everyone,
even though they're not artists,because I feel like that's a
very important aspect of art.Sometimes, if we are focused too
much on the result. We are gonnalose the joy of making it, the
(06:46):
process, the therapeutic aspectof it. So, yeah, I think in my
whole career, I have been tryinghard to try to develop methods,
creative methods that can meltthe block, the mental blocks for
the participants to start to trydoing art, not necessarily for a
(07:10):
show off situation or context,but more for themselves. For
example, yeah,
yeah. I think, I mean, Icompletely agree. I love the
fact that your culturenormalizes art, the relationship
with art is simply ordinary inthe most positive sense. It's
(07:30):
accessible and it's normal, andit's very well understood as
contributing to our personal andsocial wellbeing. And what
really interests me is with thisbackground to your life where
that's normal, you must findquite a culture shock in some
(07:53):
ways, when you're in an urbansetting and you typically see
people live very isolated andvery alienated lives, that
contradiction of you know you'rein a busy city, but you can be
very lost and very alone, andthere is that lack of
connection. And I really likehow you talk about belonging and
(08:17):
the importance of identity. Andit's through culture that we can
establish our identity, andstorytelling seems to be a
really big part of that. Wouldyou like to share more on the
power of storytelling? Oneexample, of course, is the
weaving tradition. Yeah,
(08:37):
yeah. Thank you so much. Paula.One interesting thing is that I
was actually born in a big cityin Indonesia, yeah, so I was
born and raised not in EasternSatangara. So I was living in that
isolated kind of vibe in my inmost of my years. Just recently,
I have been trying to dig deepinto my root, into my heritage
(09:01):
that that I was like, oh, okay,that is actually very
interesting. In big cities, wedon't do this. And I so I
witness how the collective lifecan be very, very beautiful and
very warm and very welcoming.There's lots of gestures of
care, in forms of touch, in theforms of how people communicate
with each other, in theirexpressions, in their system,
(09:26):
and it's just very amazing. Ifelt the need to dig deep, and
that's that's where I started mytrip. I call it Trip Menuju Timur
or in English, TripTowards the East. So I tried to
do the independent research.Let's call it independent
research, talking with theelders, talking with the
(09:47):
communities. They're trying tointerview them, and trying to
see from this unique perspectiveof someone who is also part of
the of the tribe, but alsoliving very far from them. Since
I was born, so that's how Istarted, and also about the
identity and belonging. This isalso a big question in my in my
(10:11):
practice, because who am I? Am Ipart of this wonderful
community? Am I out an outsider?How do I connect with them? And
apparently, art is alsosomething that bridged me to
know my own identity and myheritage, because as a person
who is quite shy in thebeginnings, or as a person who
(10:33):
sometimes have a hard timeconnecting with another human
being in any social setting, Ifound out when I dig deep into a
special interest, quote,unquote, in art and dance and
participatory art that I foundvery interesting in my heritage.
It actually helps me connectwith my own community, because
(10:54):
of this big curiosity to learndeeper, even though I will admit
that this is still a verybeginning of my journey. I still
have a lot to learn, but I amhappy to be on this journey. And
curiosity, of course, is such ahealthy feature, and it's about
(11:14):
openness and about a willingnessto explore culture, whether it's
our own culture or othercultures. And you mentioned your
project Trip to the East, yeah,because that has a focus on
young people, doesn't it? FromEast Nusa Tenggara, and you're
encouraging them to reexperience their own roots in
(11:37):
their cultural heritage, as ofcourse, you have done yourself,
and so I'm really interested inwhat the impact of that has
been, and what examples ofheritage did they explore? I
know weaving, the Tenun weavingtechnique, has been part of it,
for example. So I wondered ifyou could share more on that.
(12:00):
Yeah, yeah. Okay, I haven't. Ihaven't touched on that before,
about weaving, woven fabric, andalso symbolism that is very
beautiful, and it's also a formof storytelling as well. And
also, probably I can talk alittle bit about my latest
project, which is called circlecycle. And this is also
(12:20):
something that I activated withthe young people and the
children in Lambata, inTamandua, Lambata, it's in
Eastern Satangara, where we try torecreate, or create an exercise,
an artistic exercise, or anartistic quote, unquote game,
which is fun for the children tolearn, but still based on we
(12:43):
call it Sol Oha. It's acircular dance from Lahamalot
practice. So in Sol Oha, peopleare doing improvisational
singing as a conversation withsome call and response. It's a
very participatory practice.It's a very inclusive practice.
Everyone is included, youngpeople elderly, like even people
(13:08):
from age over 80 or very littlechildren. We are all standing
hand in hand in circle, makingrepetitive movements with our
feet and giving space, givingmental space for the
conversation to happen. And inour latest project, the Circle
(13:28):
Cycle, which I also include inmy degree show in Royal College
of Art, we try to create a gameor at a kind of like facilitated
performance or workshop oractivity that involves
improvisation, but talking aboutfeelings, so the activity itself
(13:50):
is already therapeutic. It'svery meditative because we are
doing repetitive patterns andalso the safe space that it's
creating that you are free tojust release your voice, that
this is not about precision,about the melodies that you
choose. This is actually a spacefor you to speak in a different
(14:12):
kind of language, quote,unquote, not other language, but
in a melodic way of speaking,which is very fun, which is very
engaging, which opens up to adifferent way of communicating.
And with the children, I try tocreate a space for them to be
able to express their feelings,because we found out that lots
(14:36):
of people are repressing theirfeelings a lot, but I found, I
found it's very important foreven young people to be able to
express their feelings in a safespace. And actually this kind of
collective participatory art isa very beautiful way to be able
to do that. Yeah, and in SolOha in terms of the weaving, it's
(14:59):
actually a way of telling astory, for example, in the past
or until now, it's still used asa way to transfer information
intergenerationally. Forexample, in the story of the
singing, they will they willlist all the lineage of the
person we are celebrating inthat house, for example, and we
(15:21):
are celebrating death. We arecelebrating, I mean, this dance
is done when there is someonewho is passing, who passed away,
or when there is someone whogive birth, or if there is a big
party in the House, and usuallyin Sol Oha, how people will
(15:41):
sing and explain how the lineageis for the family. So it's a way
of intergenerational knowledgetransfer. Yeah,
and this is interesting becauseI saw a video very recently,
maybe in the last two or threedays, and it was about the
elders, the Tetua, yeah, and theelders, prayers and wishes for
(16:07):
children to connect or reconnectwith their culture. And you're
really trying to help deliverthat wisdom, that importance of
what culture means. Yeah. Howhave you found whether it's
young children responding orwhether it's even young adults
(16:30):
responding when you'reencouraging them to re
experience their roots incultural tradition? Yeah. Yeah.
So it I remember when we did thelatest Trip Menuju Timur, we
went to Adonara, and in there,the elders are like trying to
create this activation of theSol Oha dance, or and other
(16:53):
dances as well. They're tryingto involve the children, the
young children, to love theirown heritage, to love their own
culture. And yeah, because wecan see the trend that the young
people now are starting toforget that, or starting to not
being able to do the practice ina way that the elders could do
(17:17):
in the past, which is verybeautiful with all these
wonderful aspects. But now, withthe technology coming in, for
example, the dance is only donewith some recorded music, and we
lost the improvisational aspectof it. We just do the circular
hand in hand dance. But now thecommunity is striving again to
(17:39):
also includes the youngchildren, which has a very
wonderful response from them andfrom the community and from the
people outside of the communityreally supporting them to keep
doing that and and I feel likeas an artist, my role is is to
create something that can berelevant also to today's needs
(18:02):
and issues. For example, when Isee the issues of mental health
that is also increasing orstarting to be recognized in my
area, I'm thinking instead oflike trying to use the ways that
we are not used to, or using avery clinical ways that a lot of
(18:23):
people are still having lots ofreluctance for that. I want to
create something that is rootedin our own culture, but in some
ways catered to the needs of,how do we increase well being,
or how or how do we increasemental health using this kind of
(18:43):
participatory dance and singing?So yeah, that's what I'm trying
to do with my long term project.
Yeah, and it's very interesting,because the values in your
culture, embracing improvisationis so important, because
neurology, understanding mentalhealth shows that improvisation
(19:04):
and creativity are reallyimportant activities for the
mind, for brain health, youknow, it's encouraging us to be
open and to not be constrictedin In any way when you talk
about storytelling andcollective storytelling, there's
(19:25):
also the freedom of imaginationin storytelling, but at the same
time reinforcing traditionalknowledge or carrying on stories
that are passed down through thegenerations. And there's a
lovely quote from you, I'll readit to you. "Weaving is like
storytelling. Each patterncarries generations of meaning
(19:50):
and knowledge. It connectspeople, and it's a way of
preserving our stories." And Iwas interested in your own
experience of weaving so whatyour own childhood memories are
of the Tenun tradition comparedto how you've rediscovered its
(20:13):
meaning as an
adult? Yeah, that's veryinteresting, Paula, because as a
child, who is raised in incities, in big cities, instead
of like in my own place. I onlyhave limited experience. I only
see the result. For example, Ionly see the Tenun as a very
(20:36):
delicate, intricate work of art,but I didn't see the process of
it being created. I didn't seehow the mothers in East Satangara
are sitting in their bigbackyards, chatting, telling
stories with each other,laughing or speaking with their
children and while doing theTenun, or sometimes in some
(20:58):
areas, they are still singingwhile doing the Tenun, or while
doing the woven while making thewoven fabric, which is very
beautiful. So it only occurs tome lately how beautiful this can
be like lately, when I did theresearch, I can see how, how
amazing art can be the glue insociety. Creating art, the act
(21:23):
of creating art is a way togather people, whether it's the
the woven fabric or thedance or the singing. Sometimes
it's not the art itself as thefocus, but actually the society.
I want to meet you. I want tosee you face to face. I want to
connect with you very deeply.And art is how we meet, and
(21:47):
that's very beautiful. And Ialso try to learn more about the
beautiful philosophy of theTenun itself, like knowing more
about how why it's circular, asin the form of it is, it's
tubular, like there is no end tothe circular shape of the
(22:07):
fabric. And how it's alsorelated to the dance, which is
also circular. And if we gomore, if we go deeper, it's also
related to spirituality, howit's all about micro cosmos and
micro cosmos and Macro Cosmos,how every human being is a
(22:29):
universe in itself, and how,like, for example, every person
who is wearing the Tenun whilealso doing the dance in circle
is also very beautiful layerhappening in one I don't know
how to express that in words,but that's I saw all of that in
awe and in new light. Andinstead of just seeing the as a
(22:55):
result, as a result of anobject,
yeah, as an object, it is,
it is something much more thanthat. It's something beyond
words. I don't know how toexplain that. Yeah,
because it weaves somethingbeautiful together, but it's
also weaving people together.
(23:16):
Yeah, yes, yes. So
you referred to spirituality,which is really interesting,
because I saw that one of theprojects we've referred to is,
if you like, led by the Spiritof Gotong Royong. Yeah and what
(23:36):
really interested me about thatis that goes to a traditional
Indonesian concept thatencourages people to work
together for the common good.And this is core to Indonesian
philosophy. And I think this isreally, really important. Yes,
true, true. And it's not only inEastern Satangara. The spirit of
(24:00):
Gotong Royong is something thatwe all as Indonesians hold very
dearly, and it's very, yeah,it's very, very related to the
collective way of living, whichcan be quite confusing if you
are now living in big cities inIndonesia, because we now living
in a quite individualisticculture, but also still holding
(24:24):
tightly to this Kotaraya, soyeah, we are still trying to
find out the balance between thetwo. It's
such an important emphasisbecause I think we've already
really responded to the factthat, as you've just said, the
emphasis on an individualizedlife, individual success,
(24:46):
individual empire building, alsoresults in such isolation and
alienation because the focus isso far away from collective well
being for. And collaborativepractices, whether you know,
through arts and culture, and itbasically deprives social
(25:08):
cohesion. And social cohesion isso important for mental health,
isn't it? Yes, yes, true. Soanother quote of yours I'd like
to use that you might be happyto expand on, because I think it
really reinforces what we'resaying is, by keeping our
(25:29):
culture alive and sharing itwith new generations, we're
creating a space where they feelproud and grounded. And I
thought grounded was a reallyimportant word,
yes, yes, true. I really, reallybelieve in how the art itself
can be a way of enhancing themental well being in this time
(25:56):
of confusion about, who am I,who am I, who who are we? What
is our identity? All the changesthat happen so rapidly, I
believe that if we establishagain the art within the system,
it really can help act as theglue for the society to work in
(26:18):
a very beautiful way, and alsoto help us enhance our well
being. Because in the past, forexample, when I did the
research, we don't really usethe word mental health, quote,
unquote or wellbeing, but forwhenever we ask the questions,
people say that they were veryhappy. They were very helped
(26:40):
with this. They are very healthyphysically as well by doing this
art practice regularly. And now,when the era changes, and people
start to forget that, and peoplestart to do it like more rarely,
this system kind of beingstripped off from their lives,
(27:02):
and there's no other thing thatis replacing it. So, yeah, I
think, I think I just have thisdream of like, being able to
not, maybe not reintroduce, buttrying to transform it in a way
that can be very relevant toyoung people as a generation
(27:22):
that can be very engaging andvery attractive to them as well,
and very useful and beneficialto them for this era, for this
time we live in, so that canstill be continued. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. You're talking aboutmental health, even if it's not
(27:42):
phrased in that way. We'retalking about mental health,
maintaining health and improvinghealth through being grounded in
cultural identity and culturalpractice, because of the
connection that it provides. Andit does seem that Indonesian
(28:03):
indigenous art practice respondsparticularly well in terms of
collective wellbeing, being anintention of those art
practices. And there's, there'sa piece of art that I'm
interested in, it's Embracing.It's from 2024, last year. It's
mixed media on paper, and thequestions you raised are, "where
(28:28):
and when can I feel safe to beweird, and where do I belong?"
And I really love that. I reallylove that, where and when can I
feel safe to be weird. I mean,I'd love to say, well, feel
weird all the time. You know,what a lovely state to be in,
but when you pose thosequestions, what kind of maybe
(28:50):
personal struggles or challengeswere you thinking about at the
time? Yeah, so that
one is related toneurodiversity. So I just
recently found out about my ADHDand autism, and I was fighting
or trying so hard for so long tofind out again identity. Who am
(29:11):
I? Where do I belong? Andsometimes I felt very afraid to
be different, even thoughneurologically, I am different,
and I try to fit in so much,into the boxes or into the
shapes that society wants. Ididn't have the courage to be
different and be quote, unquoteweird. But I'm not mentioning
(29:35):
weird in a bad way,
beautifully with beautifullyweird, beautiful exactly
like because when people arefree to express themselves as
they are, it is we can see theirbeautiful soul. It is very
beautiful to have someone beexpressive, someone be
(29:57):
themselves, someone show it in.Art or someone show it in how
they choose their clothes, howthey want to present themselves.
And I think it's also related tomy workshops, where I try to
invite people to expressthemselves freely, regardless of
(30:19):
what they think about. Artshould be this art should be
that. Art should be this good.Art should be this perfect,
which probably is being plantedto our minds since our childhood
in education, for example, artneeds to be having some A plus
grade, or you cannot draw orcolor outside of the line,
(30:43):
because everyone needs to be thesame, or everyone needs to be
doing it perfectly, even thoughart is something that can help
us express ourselves and findour weirdness beautiful, weird,
beautiful weirdness. Yeah, yeah.
And that can only happen if wehave the chance to explore
freely without being afraid ofgetting a C in art or
(31:07):
Yeah, and it goes back tosomething we were saying at the
beginning, really, it's reallyimportant to embrace the joy of
art, the joy of our culture,without thinking it's about
being marked. You know, is thisan A plus standards that that
could become entirelyirrelevant. It's about your
relationship with the art andthe benefits that you take from
(31:28):
it, and in terms of yourunderstanding of autism and
ADHD, did you feel a sense ofrelief that you could actually
take off the mask, the mask oftrying to fit in.
Yes, yes, I can finally breathewhen I can first acknowledge it,
(31:54):
accepting and embracing it asthe title of the artwork that
you mentioned, and to slowlyunlearn the skills that I tried
so hard to learn throughout myyears of life, to be like other
people and to be liked by otherpeople by not being weird or by
(32:18):
not being different. But I feellike we all have very unique
characteristic, neurodivergentor non or neurotypicals every
human being have theiruniqueness, and this is still
related, for example, to theparticipatory art that we were
talking about in Sol Oha. Forexample, everyone will sing or
(32:42):
improvise in their own style.There's a pattern that we will
follow so that this can beharmonious in some ways, but
when every individual in thiscollective is expressing
themselves, they will express itin their own way, and it's
celebrated and also in terms ofperfection. I remember
witnessing the dance wherepeople are just singing joyfully
(33:06):
without really thinking thattheir voice needs to be
beautiful or needs to assert anote. They just let it out and
and it sounds funny. People arelaughing, but not loving in non
not loving in a judgmental way.That's what I feel. It's just a
celebration, and everyone isjust being jolly. And that's one
(33:28):
example of how art can open thespace for people to experiment
with their own identity or theirown expression. And this is
something that I, for example,in my stage as a musician, I
sometimes ask people to sing,talk, to do improvisation
with like a call and response,like a call
(33:50):
and response, but not imitating,yes, conversing, yeah, with a
certain for example, forexample, with a certain number
of audience. Well, this maybecan only be done with a limited
number of audience. I will askquestions in song, what is your
name? Something like that. Iwill challenge them. I have,
come on, come on. You can try.Don't be afraid to try and you
(34:13):
reply to me, but by singing, andusually that brings a lot of
laughter and joy, and people arejust having fun trying something
new that they haven't triedbefore, and just all celebrated.
And
it is a beautiful act. And Ialso think you're really
cultivating healthy acts ofcourage, so encouraging people
(34:35):
to open up, to not worry aboutsinging whether they're good
enough, or painting whetherthey're good enough but to be
brave enough to just open up andto enjoy the process. But also,
I'm interested in your owncourage, because someone who's
neuro divergent and who has hadto wear a mask, or felt they had
(34:58):
to wear a mask. Is also an actof courage, isn't it that you
have to put yourself inpositions that aren't
necessarily natural orcomfortable to you? So it seems
a very generous act and a verycourageous act. Do you consider
it courageous? Is couragesomething that comes from your
culture?
(35:19):
That's a very interestingquestion to answer it. Yes. It's
a very courageous act. It takes,it took me a lot of time to be
able to slowly unmask and I feelthis is also a very common
experience that is felt by a lotof neurodivergence. For example,
(35:39):
I've been living without knowingit for 27 years. And for 27
years I created this system thathelped me survive, that helped
me thrive with the challenges,but also to unlearn something
that you have done for years.It's also a very hard thing to
do, but it's worth it, like it'sworth the fight, because I feel
(36:05):
like I need to be thiscourageous to overcome the big,
huge fear, to be vulnerable andto be seen as I am, even though
I know it might not be acceptedeasily, To be able to gain the
peace that I get afterwards,because all this masking, it
(36:26):
takes a lot of energy, takes alot of sacrifices, and it's
detrimental,
isn't it, because it'srestricting your expression and
who you are exactly
it it, it doesn't give the spacefor the expression to flow
authentically. So as an artist,is very important for us to be
(36:48):
authentic, to be honest, apouring out the art that comes
from the heart. But when wecan't do that because of this
mask, it is really hard to findyeah the way to be honest, while
you're still wearing the mask.So I think holistically, not
only in my art career, but alsoin my whole life, in my whole
(37:11):
system, is a fight worthfighting for. Yeah and
so,
because there is courage, such alot of courage involved in that
is, are there examples ofanybody? Could you know, is it
your mum, your grandma? Is itthe elders? How have you been
influenced, perhaps, to be braveenough? Has there been
(37:34):
influence, or have you simplyunderstood that it's just been
very necessary for you to bebrave.
Ah, yeah. I also have a reply toyour question earlier about
whether courage is Yeah, is alsoembedded in your culture and in
(37:58):
my family, for example, I thinkI have a lot of influence and
inspiration from my granddad. Mygrandfather is a very courageous
person. Is a very vocal person.Well, when he knows what
he wants, he has a goal. He willgo for it. He will fight for it.
(38:21):
He's I can see him as a truefighter, and I'm really in awe
with his courage. And I think Igot that from my grandpa, but
I'm speaking in my own language.So my grandfather is a
politician. He speaks very wellverbally. For example, he speaks
very well in his oration. Hewrote poems. He speak in
(38:45):
public. But for me, I think Ihave my strength in in the form
of melodies. I have my strengthin the form of colors and
shapes, and that's how I speakout my mind. And these beautiful
values can be poured withindifferent mediums, but still
(39:07):
send out the same strength. Andit's also related to the freedom
to use different mediums, ormultidisciplinary art, or you
can say this transdisciplinaryart. Now it's also important to
also encourage people to bechoosing their own medium, like
choosing your own weapon,because in terms of neuro
(39:30):
diversity as well and inclusion,we also try to advocate how
important it is for people tohave to have no fear in terms of
finding their own voice in theirchosen mediums. That's so
interesting. The example of yourgranddad is so significant
(39:53):
because, of course, the emphasisis on voice in whatever form
that's. Awaken, whether it's asinging voice, whether it's
political narrator, whether it'sweaving a story. We're talking
about voice, aren't we, all ofthe time, and I imagine that
being able to respect yourgrandfather, being prepared to
(40:18):
have a voice, to share hisvoice, to stand by his
principles is very significant,because you're able to do the
same through your art practice.You're not shying away from your
voice and from what you want tosay. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. And probably it'snot only my grandfather, like a
(40:40):
lot of people from our cultureis very vocal as well. When we
know that we we are fighting forsomething we really believe in,
be very vocal about it. And Ithink even though in my earlier
life, earlier years, I do nothave that kind of courage, but
also probably because I didn'tknow that I have a different way
(41:04):
of pouring that knowledge indifferent mediums. This is also
very important in inclusivityadvocacy and neurodiversity.
Yeah,
so I'd love to talk to you aboutmusic, because that's obviously
a huge part of who you are, youhave a beautiful voice. Thank
you. And no wonder you have over16,000 listeners on Spotify
(41:28):
alone. Thanks everyone who listened.And no, it's beautiful. And I
would love to know more abouthow your singing voice was
cultivated. You know, were youraised in a tradition of
singing, collective singing. Wasit influences in your family,
oral tradition being passed downor bearing in mind that you were
(41:49):
born into a city or urbancontext? Is it something that
you came to later when youwanted to explore your
traditional culture foryourself?
I think my family, they reallylove singing, especially from my
dad's family. I think almosteveryone in that family loves to
sing, and they have beautifulvoice, and I feel like it came
(42:14):
so naturally for us, to thepoint that when I was born and
raised in the city, my parentswere, like, very supportive of
me to pursue art as well ormusic. They put me in singing
classes when I was in highschool. And I think that helps
me. It helps me honing myskills. Probably also because I
(42:38):
wasn't born and raised in inEastern Tenggara where all these
cultures, all the singingpractices are happening. So in
these big cities, I am doing myway to learn to sing, to learn
to yeah, practice my voice, eventhough the context was very
stage based as a performance.It's something that you will be
(43:03):
judged. You have to be good.That's scary.
That's a scary
courage all over again. That's ascary space. And
I was like remembering when Ididn't do good enough in the in
those standards, I had aperiod of time where I stopped
singing all together. I wantpeople to know that I sing at
(43:25):
all and, like, a year or twoand, wow, that's terrible, like,
to have something you reallylove taken away from you because
of all this fear and all thiscompetition culture or Yeah, and
that's why I appreciate thecollective kind of singing and
art practice more, because I seethe beauty of it. Oh, my God,
(43:47):
this is very beautiful, like youdo art, not to show off, but do
you do art just because you doart?
Was it collective singing orcollective art that made you
brave enough to return tosinging.
I think it happened when I wasgoing back from that absence
(44:09):
from singing. I haven't startedyet, to do the research to the
Trip to the East or I haven'tstarted yet, but I found out
that it is my way of speaking,it is my way of sharing my
voice, just like we discussedbefore. And when I tried to stop
(44:33):
myself from doing that, I wasfeeling lost. If we were talking
about being grounded throughart, I didn't feel grounded at
that time. I felt who am I? Likemy it's very confusing time. And
when I was getting back to it,when it, when I got back to it,
I felt like, Okay, this. Ireally love it. I don't want to
(44:57):
be separated from it again. It'slike a passionate love. Love,
and you don't want to beseparated again from it. And
that's where I start to see myown heritage, for example, in a
new way as well. Oh, this ispitiful. So yeah,
and this is really interesting,because I felt this exactly what
(45:17):
came out of your learning withShivani Sen, and this is Songs
in Serenades, music and wellbeing so I'm interested,
obviously, in what you took. Sofor the listeners, Shivani Sen
is a Hindustani classicalsinger. She's trained for more
than 20 years. So this is areally intense, committed study,
(45:41):
wasn't it to her practice, butwhat I really liked is how
singing is her anchor in theworld. Because this really
relates, doesn't it to whatwe've been saying about
identity, belonging, theimportant sense of having an
anchor in the world,particularly in a crazy world,
(46:03):
and it sounds like that's therelationship you have with
singing, that it gives you ananchor.
Yes, yes. When I did the podcastwith Shivani, when I interviewed
her, I remember when we weretalking, we were both living in
London, right? And London is abig city, and the noises are
(46:24):
apparent, and I feel like weboth embody our own singing, our
own practices from two differentlocations where we are from. We
walk in between. We walk betweenthese buildings, bringing this
knowledge that is archivedwithin our body. It's embodied
within us, and it's so beautifulhow voice is like your writing,
(46:51):
but with your own vocal cord,like it is very Yeah, it is very
close to our body, and we feellike, if we are not careful, we
might be lost and not groundedin the places that well, that
(47:13):
that is very different from whatfrom what we are from, where we
are from, and to hold true toour own identity and ground
ourselves through art is alsovery important. And in my case,
in my neurodiversity experience,singing is my way to ground
(47:34):
myself whenever I feeloverwhelmed, sensory wise, for
example, it's my way ofstimming. When I produce sound,
I feel more grounded in my bodybecause I can feel the vibration
of my focal cord of or of mythroat producing the sound. I
(47:55):
can feel it resonance in mywhole body as an instrument. And
that brings me back to thepresent moment, instead of being
overwhelmed with the externalstimuli, which is very
overwhelming, especially forpeople with sensory
sensitivities. So for me, Icannot live without music. I
(48:18):
can, yeah, I always listen toit, yeah, and
it's similar, isn't it, to howpeople may focus on the breath
in meditation. It's another wayof anchoring exactly
yes. It's a form of meditation.It's a prayer.
Yeah. Dancers I've interviewedhave also talked about the
importance of rhythm throughdance, and how rhythm becomes
(48:41):
very transporting, even if theyhave and two examples, they were
dancers in life or deathsituations, and it was dance and
rhythm around those situationsthat enabled them to survive or
to cope. So it's very powerful,isn't it? This relationship,
(49:01):
yes, yes,
it's it's like meditation. It'ssomething repetitive. So for
example, when I do mindfuldrawing workshops where I invite
people to draw and be aware oftheir sensation making strokes
repetitively. It's so similarwith Sol Oha, dance, that
(49:22):
dance is also very meditative.In that way we are doing the
repetitive movement, and thatcreates a mental space for us to
improvise, to tell a story usingmelodies. So it's just very
amazing how beautiful art canbe. Yeah. It can be very, very
beautiful. Yeah.
I'm really interested in talkingto you about the five songs in
(49:45):
Leah's Universe, because of thethemes around home, a sense of
home, but also alienation,acceptance, but also isolation.
And you also talk about freedomand growth. And so I'm really
interested in what you mightlike to share from those
(50:07):
particular five songs youfocused on. I know you included
personal archives in terms ofhow you presented the work,
particularly in view of what wewere just saying, in terms of
how your singing voice helps youanchor yourself in the world, so
when you're dealing with issuesor themes like acceptance and
(50:31):
isolation or home andalienation, yeah, what was the
purpose for you to create Leah'sUniverse? Oh, wow. I
think, I think it's also stillvery related to how
contradictions are very apparentin the Lamaholot culture, for
(50:52):
example, we have songs that areactually have a very sad lyrics,
but song in a very joyful way.
And these are very interesting.Yeah. And
it's like celebrating, like, twosides of a coins, celebrating
two differently, two extremelydifferent things as part of
(51:13):
life. And I think that's alsowhat I want to pour into
Leah's Universe.I'm talking about, as you say,
very beautifully, talking abouthome, but also alienation, and
that can happen at the sametime. And that can also happen
when you're being in a in aplace geographically, but not
(51:36):
feeling home, or you areactually being very happy about
something, but also there's asadness underneath that you want
to express through art. And Ithink the contradiction is
something that I want to share,and also I kind of want to that
is one way of me learning on howto express my struggles as a
(52:05):
neurodivergent. I didn't knowbefore, what was it when I
created this songs and thisproject, I wasn't diagnosed yet,
so I was still being feelingvery lost and not knowing what's
happening, and that's the onlyway I know how to express it,
(52:25):
while trying to learn about myown culture as well. So
you created this body of work,Leah's universe before your
diagnosis, and now you've hadyour diagnosis, and you reflect
back on that work, you canprobably see so much more
clearly what your struggle was.Yeah,
(52:48):
and when I saw my face in thatvideo, singing those words in
confusion, I felt a huge surgeof compassion seeing my past
self is very confused, but stillfighting to still express her
(53:10):
her feelings through art, eventhough she doesn't know what is
happening, even though she'sstruggling so much. And I felt
like it's like a time capsulemachine, like I got transported
back to that time and realizedhow far I have grown, and
realized how how hard it was forme and my compassion also goes
(53:33):
for other people in Indonesia,for example, in my community,
who are still confused abouttheir neurodiversity, for
example, who are, who are notdiagnosed yet, who are not
having the access yet to findout more about themselves or get
some accommodation that theydeserve. And I felt like this is
(53:55):
something that I want to fightmore, not only for myself, but
also for other people who arewho is also struggling with the
same things, and
having the chance to respectyourself, to respect your
journey. I imagine that'simportant when you look back, if
you take that example, you knowyou look back at that body of
work, clear universe after beingdiagnosed, and you can
(54:19):
understand what you werestruggling how and why, you
could articulate it better. Youcould be at more peace with it
just through understanding, butat the same time, be able to
respect yourself for being thatperson who is brave enough to
keep going. Yeah, yeah, true.There's another song I'd like to
(54:40):
ask you about because I knowtime has really flown by. And
this is a song you wrote for amusical. It was directed by Garin
Film.
Oh, by Garin. Yes, yeah.And you
performed this live on KartiniNational Day in Indonesia.
And for the listeners. Iunderstand that Kartini is a
(55:01):
female national hero celebratedevery year on April the 21st and
Kartini was a women's rights andeducation advocate. So Kartini
helped raise the social statusof Indonesian women
significantly. I'm reallyinterested in how you respond to
(55:23):
Kartini and how you responded tocreating that particular song.
Yeah, so this song
was created bythe request of Gary Nugroho to
be to be performed first in hismusical called Ayun Ayun Negeri,
(55:44):
It is a song about this bigdream for our beloved country.
This is a song that I alsoperformed in Kartini Day,
produced by Opia Neresta, one oflegendary Indonesian female
singers, not the Kartini Day, butthere's an event that she
(56:05):
produced for the Kartini Day.And I sang that song in the
spirit of the Kartini who wroteletters. So talking again about
weapon, how Kartini voiced hervoice using words and letters, I
feel like us as new generationsor as artists, for example, we
(56:31):
have different ways of usingdifferent weapons to also voice
our aspiration about our owncountry and this, this song is
actually a prayer. So the lyricsare (INA SINGS)
(INA SINGS)
(56:52):
Kartini, this dream is very simpleto witness this country, not,
not anymore being engulfed bysadness and grief and struggles
and on the end, on the, onthe chorus, we have this
realization that the dream isnot that simple to fulfill so
(57:19):
but in the end of the song. Ialso invite the young people to
embody the Kartini spirit, todo it with your own way, to
fight, to give impact, to makedifferences, no matter how
little it is, little or big, totry to find your own way, to use
(57:41):
your own weapon, to use your ownvoice in a different medium. So
yeah, it's
particularly nice to highlightbecause this season, season
eight, is first published onFebruary the 20th, which is the
United Nations Day for SocialJustice. And I loved that you
have this, you know, thisnational day celebrating
(58:04):
Kartini, who obviously hasadvocated for women's rights and
education. And would you sayKartini is influence is just as
important in now, today, inIndonesia?
Oh yes, of course. She's a verybig inspiration, especially for
us girls and females inIndonesia to we are still
(58:29):
fighting for the equal rights aswe are also having big
patriarchy culture, and lots ofpeople are still sometimes
underestimating females for youknow, being a front lead in the
music group, or voicing yourvoice in your art, for example,
(58:51):
we are still fighting that. AndI think when we go back, we see,
we look back to Kartinin's fight, and we know that she's
starting all this fight that Ifeel like it's it's really hard
to do at that time, is there'sso much at stake. And nowadays
there's lot of pathways havebeen opened by the people before
(59:14):
us, and I think we need tocontinue it as the new
generation, and the spirit andthe inspiration is still very
strong.
It's another story of of hugecourage, isn't it? Courage.
That's
that's a huge story of courage.Yes.
So Gabriella, I'm afraid thehour has flown by. I mean, it's
(59:35):
a pleasure, it always goesso fast. I would of course like
to ask you what your response isto the series question. There's
no right or wrong answer at all,because I think the more varied
answers we have, the better. Buthow do you respond to the idea,
can art save us? Ah,
(59:57):
I really like this question.Actually. I. Really like the
title of the podcast, can artsave us?
Because I feel like lots ofpeople are underestimating art
power in all medium that it hasto offer, like lots of people
are, are seeing art as atertiary need or as a hobby or
(01:00:19):
as something you know that isnot important, but how you put
that into the sentence, how art?How can arts save us? Or can art
save us? Is actually a verystrong statement in itself,
because you're trying toadvocate, or you're trying to
(01:00:40):
spread the word, or even makepeople think and ask to
themselves, can art save us?
Yeah, it advocates and itprovokes at the same time. Yeah,
exactly.
And for my career, my artpractice, I always, always say,
art is a beautiful tool, andit's not only and for
(01:01:01):
entertainment purpose, it canhave a very transformative power
in our lives, if being takencare of very delicately or in a
very or contradictively in avery strong way. And I would
love more and more people to beable to have this belief that
(01:01:24):
art can help us, art can saveus. Art can make us thrive in
life. Art can help us as a tool.Art can transform us. So, yeah,
it's more than just just anentertainment or just a hobby.
(01:01:46):
Well, not saying that art as ahobby is a bad thing. No, not at
all. It's a really good thing.But it has lots of power that
can be unleashed to the world.Yeah,
it has a very active state,doesn't it. It has very clear
functions in terms of how wecultivate our own health,
whether it's mental health orsocial health. I can't thank you
(01:02:09):
enough for your time. Its really been lovely to talk to
you. I've been so interested inin your work, in your culture.
I'm very excited to say you'rethe first artist who can share
Indonesian culture with us. It'sa real honor to be able to
explore your cultural richeswith you, and thank you for
(01:02:30):
sharing all of your ideas andthoughts. I do hope you keep
singing, and I do hope that youwill stay beautifully weird.
I will stay beautifully weird.Thank you so
much, Paula. And for thelisteners, I will sign post on
Gabriella's page, links to herwebsite, also to Spotify, do go
(01:02:50):
and treat yourself to her music.And please do share this
episode, other episodes or theseries wherever you can and help
make art all of ours. Thank youvery much for listening. Hey.
Thank you so much. Paula, thankyou so much everyone.
Welcome to thispodcast series asking the
question, Can art save us? I'mstarting the first national and
international conversation aboutcourage and curiosity. What do
these qualities really mean, andwhy does it make a big
difference to our mental,societal and democratic health?
I talk to award winning anddiverse artists across the arts
(00:24):
to explore these qualities intheir lives and work both to
inspire and for us all to learn.I'm exploring why we need these
qualities to help change theglobal epidemic of mental
illness, loneliness,polarization of our communities
and even global conflict. If thearts cultivate courage and
curiosity, I'm asking thequestion, Can art save us? My
(00:49):
guest today is Gabriella,Elisabeth Edawani Fernandez, and
her artist name is Ina Leah. She'sa transdisciplinary artist,
weaving together art andwellbeing practices, including
improvisational music,expressive painting, collective
dance, traditional crafts andmoving image. There's a deep
level of integration between thedifferent disciplines she works
(01:10):
with building a holisticknowledge and respect for
cultural heritage. Gabriella'swork is rooted in the practices
of the indigenous Lamaholot people of East Nusa Tenggara,
the home of her culturalheritage. The Lamaholot people
are indigenous to thesouthernmost province of
Indonesia and the small islandsaround it. It's an area of
(01:31):
natural beauty. She's deeplyinspired by the cultural
traditions and collectiveparticipation that understands
the interconnectedness of humansand the natural world. As a
contemporary artist, you canalso find Gabriella Fernandez on
Spotify, along with well over16,000 listeners for a
celebration of musical heritage,oral tradition and sound art.
(01:55):
Gabriella is deeply sensitive tonoise. She talks openly about
her ADHD and autism and as aneurodivergent creator, she
understands the need for calm inall our lives. In fact, she has
already created a gift for you,the urban lullaby on her
website, offering you a space toharmonize amongst the noise.
(02:16):
She's committed to the healingpowers of art on our physical
and mental well being. And theartist name she has given
herself reflects healing. Leahis an anagram of the word heal.
And Ina means mother in theLamaholot language. It can also
refer to mother, earth and theocean. This is a name of
nurture, nature and healing,connecting the human and natural
(02:39):
world as one. And Ina is anartist with a mission in
holistic health and creativeexpression for everyone. Hello
Gabriella, and welcome to Can Art Save Us? Hi, Paula.
I've been very, very muchlooking forward to talking to
you, and enjoyed following youon Instagram. So thank you again
(03:01):
for getting in touch. It'sreally lovely to follow your
work. Thank
you so much. That's yeah, thankyou so much. I'm really excited
to be here. Oh,
bless you. Well,I wouldlike to start with your mission,
because you have a very, veryclear message that art heals and
connects. And I really like howyou emphasize art isn't an
(03:27):
exclusive luxury, but in fact,it's a common language. It's
something that brings peopletogether across cultures and
generations. So I'm interestedin how you have developed your
practice and whether that hascome from a belief and your own
(03:48):
cultural upbringing. Yeah. Thankyou
so much, Paula. I think art forwellbeing, and art or art and
wellbeing is a big tagline thathas been the core of my practice
that has goes for like, severalyears, I don't know, 10 years, I
guess. And I think it's alsovery, very related to my
(04:11):
upbringing, my family, we arevery musical, not in a
professional way, but we alwayssing in our family meetings, in
our family events, and we reallyenjoy doing that. And in our
culture, almost all of thecelebration, it involves music
(04:33):
or dancing or art in some ways.So art is very integrated in a
social life, and it's notsomething that is separate, for
example, for now, if now we canonly enjoy art or music in the
form of stage or ticketedevents. In my culture, it is
(04:54):
something that it's like therein our daily lives. It's very
apparent and. And yeah, veryclose to our hearts. And I think
my art for well being mission isalso related to my
neurodiversity, where I alwaysuse my art to sometimes to calm
(05:14):
myself or to ground myself, orto find out who I am, to figure
out how I can express my needsto people, how I can
communicate, how I can conversewith people in another form of
language. Because sometimes Ithink as an autistic person, I
think in pictures a lot, insteadof in verbal words. So I think
(05:41):
when I paint, or when I createart in some forms, or when I do
melodies, I feel like it helpsme connect with other people
much better than using words. SoI really, really want to open up
how art can be accessible formore people to be able to be
(06:01):
used as a tool, to connect withother human beings, or to
connect with even the earth,even the nature, to connect with
themselves, to connect with thevalues that has started to be
forgotten, and to be used as atool to help themselves in terms
of their well being. So yeah, inmy workshops, I always, always,
(06:25):
always emphasize how I want artto be accessible for everyone,
even though they're not artists,because I feel like that's a
very important aspect of art.Sometimes, if we are focused too
much on the result. We are gonnalose the joy of making it, the
(06:46):
process, the therapeutic aspectof it. So, yeah, I think in my
whole career, I have been tryinghard to try to develop methods,
creative methods that can meltthe block, the mental blocks for
the participants to start to trydoing art, not necessarily for a
(07:10):
show off situation or context,but more for themselves. For
example, yeah,
yeah. I think, I mean, Icompletely agree. I love the
fact that your culturenormalizes art, the relationship
with art is simply ordinary inthe most positive sense. It's
(07:30):
accessible and it's normal, andit's very well understood as
contributing to our personal andsocial wellbeing. And what
really interests me is with thisbackground to your life where
that's normal, you must findquite a culture shock in some
(07:53):
ways, when you're in an urbansetting and you typically see
people live very isolated andvery alienated lives, that
contradiction of you know you'rein a busy city, but you can be
very lost and very alone, andthere is that lack of
connection. And I really likehow you talk about belonging and
(08:17):
the importance of identity. Andit's through culture that we can
establish our identity, andstorytelling seems to be a
really big part of that. Wouldyou like to share more on the
power of storytelling? Oneexample, of course, is the
weaving tradition. Yeah,
(08:37):
yeah. Thank you so much. Paula.One interesting thing is that I
was actually born in a big cityin Indonesia, yeah, so I was
born and raised not in EasternSatangara. So I was living in that
isolated kind of vibe in my inmost of my years. Just recently,
I have been trying to dig deepinto my root, into my heritage
(09:01):
that that I was like, oh, okay,that is actually very
interesting. In big cities, wedon't do this. And I so I
witness how the collective lifecan be very, very beautiful and
very warm and very welcoming.There's lots of gestures of
care, in forms of touch, in theforms of how people communicate
with each other, in theirexpressions, in their system,
(09:26):
and it's just very amazing. Ifelt the need to dig deep, and
that's that's where I started mytrip. I call it Trip Menuju Timur
or in English, TripTowards the East. So I tried to
do the independent research.Let's call it independent
research, talking with theelders, talking with the
(09:47):
communities. They're trying tointerview them, and trying to
see from this unique perspectiveof someone who is also part of
the of the tribe, but alsoliving very far from them. Since
I was born, so that's how Istarted, and also about the
identity and belonging. This isalso a big question in my in my
(10:11):
practice, because who am I? Am Ipart of this wonderful
community? Am I out an outsider?How do I connect with them? And
apparently, art is alsosomething that bridged me to
know my own identity and myheritage, because as a person
who is quite shy in thebeginnings, or as a person who
(10:33):
sometimes have a hard timeconnecting with another human
being in any social setting, Ifound out when I dig deep into a
special interest, quote,unquote, in art and dance and
participatory art that I foundvery interesting in my heritage.
It actually helps me connectwith my own community, because
(10:54):
of this big curiosity to learndeeper, even though I will admit
that this is still a verybeginning of my journey. I still
have a lot to learn, but I amhappy to be on this journey. And
curiosity, of course, is such ahealthy feature, and it's about
(11:14):
openness and about a willingnessto explore culture, whether it's
our own culture or othercultures. And you mentioned your
project Trip to the East, yeah,because that has a focus on
young people, doesn't it? FromEast Nusa Tenggara, and you're
encouraging them to reexperience their own roots in
(11:37):
their cultural heritage, as ofcourse, you have done yourself,
and so I'm really interested inwhat the impact of that has
been, and what examples ofheritage did they explore? I
know weaving, the Tenun weavingtechnique, has been part of it,
for example. So I wondered ifyou could share more on that.
(12:00):
Yeah, yeah. Okay, I haven't. Ihaven't touched on that before,
about weaving, woven fabric, andalso symbolism that is very
beautiful, and it's also a formof storytelling as well. And
also, probably I can talk alittle bit about my latest
project, which is called circlecycle. And this is also
(12:20):
something that I activated withthe young people and the
children in Lambata, inTamandua, Lambata, it's in
Eastern Satangara, where we try torecreate, or create an exercise,
an artistic exercise, or anartistic quote, unquote game,
which is fun for the children tolearn, but still based on we
(12:43):
call it Sol Oha. It's acircular dance from Lahamalot
practice. So in Sol Oha, peopleare doing improvisational
singing as a conversation withsome call and response. It's a
very participatory practice.It's a very inclusive practice.
Everyone is included, youngpeople elderly, like even people
(13:08):
from age over 80 or very littlechildren. We are all standing
hand in hand in circle, makingrepetitive movements with our
feet and giving space, givingmental space for the
conversation to happen. And inour latest project, the Circle
(13:28):
Cycle, which I also include inmy degree show in Royal College
of Art, we try to create a gameor at a kind of like facilitated
performance or workshop oractivity that involves
improvisation, but talking aboutfeelings, so the activity itself
(13:50):
is already therapeutic. It'svery meditative because we are
doing repetitive patterns andalso the safe space that it's
creating that you are free tojust release your voice, that
this is not about precision,about the melodies that you
choose. This is actually a spacefor you to speak in a different
(14:12):
kind of language, quote,unquote, not other language, but
in a melodic way of speaking,which is very fun, which is very
engaging, which opens up to adifferent way of communicating.
And with the children, I try tocreate a space for them to be
able to express their feelings,because we found out that lots
(14:36):
of people are repressing theirfeelings a lot, but I found, I
found it's very important foreven young people to be able to
express their feelings in a safespace. And actually this kind of
collective participatory art isa very beautiful way to be able
to do that. Yeah, and in SolOha in terms of the weaving, it's
(14:59):
actually a way of telling astory, for example, in the past
or until now, it's still used asa way to transfer information
intergenerationally. Forexample, in the story of the
singing, they will they willlist all the lineage of the
person we are celebrating inthat house, for example, and we
(15:21):
are celebrating death. We arecelebrating, I mean, this dance
is done when there is someonewho is passing, who passed away,
or when there is someone whogive birth, or if there is a big
party in the House, and usuallyin Sol Oha, how people will
(15:41):
sing and explain how the lineageis for the family. So it's a way
of intergenerational knowledgetransfer. Yeah,
and this is interesting becauseI saw a video very recently,
maybe in the last two or threedays, and it was about the
elders, the Tetua, yeah, and theelders, prayers and wishes for
(16:07):
children to connect or reconnectwith their culture. And you're
really trying to help deliverthat wisdom, that importance of
what culture means. Yeah. Howhave you found whether it's
young children responding orwhether it's even young adults
(16:30):
responding when you'reencouraging them to re
experience their roots incultural tradition? Yeah. Yeah.
So it I remember when we did thelatest Trip Menuju Timur, we
went to Adonara, and in there,the elders are like trying to
create this activation of theSol Oha dance, or and other
(16:53):
dances as well. They're tryingto involve the children, the
young children, to love theirown heritage, to love their own
culture. And yeah, because wecan see the trend that the young
people now are starting toforget that, or starting to not
being able to do the practice ina way that the elders could do
(17:17):
in the past, which is verybeautiful with all these
wonderful aspects. But now, withthe technology coming in, for
example, the dance is only donewith some recorded music, and we
lost the improvisational aspectof it. We just do the circular
hand in hand dance. But now thecommunity is striving again to
(17:39):
also includes the youngchildren, which has a very
wonderful response from them andfrom the community and from the
people outside of the communityreally supporting them to keep
doing that and and I feel likeas an artist, my role is is to
create something that can berelevant also to today's needs
(18:02):
and issues. For example, when Isee the issues of mental health
that is also increasing orstarting to be recognized in my
area, I'm thinking instead oflike trying to use the ways that
we are not used to, or using avery clinical ways that a lot of
(18:23):
people are still having lots ofreluctance for that. I want to
create something that is rootedin our own culture, but in some
ways catered to the needs of,how do we increase well being,
or how or how do we increasemental health using this kind of
(18:43):
participatory dance and singing?So yeah, that's what I'm trying
to do with my long term project.
Yeah, and it's very interesting,because the values in your
culture, embracing improvisationis so important, because
neurology, understanding mentalhealth shows that improvisation
(19:04):
and creativity are reallyimportant activities for the
mind, for brain health, youknow, it's encouraging us to be
open and to not be constrictedin In any way when you talk
about storytelling andcollective storytelling, there's
(19:25):
also the freedom of imaginationin storytelling, but at the same
time reinforcing traditionalknowledge or carrying on stories
that are passed down through thegenerations. And there's a
lovely quote from you, I'll readit to you. "Weaving is like
storytelling. Each patterncarries generations of meaning
(19:50):
and knowledge. It connectspeople, and it's a way of
preserving our stories." And Iwas interested in your own
experience of weaving so whatyour own childhood memories are
of the Tenun tradition comparedto how you've rediscovered its
(20:13):
meaning as an
adult? Yeah, that's veryinteresting, Paula, because as a
child, who is raised in incities, in big cities, instead
of like in my own place. I onlyhave limited experience. I only
see the result. For example, Ionly see the Tenun as a very
(20:36):
delicate, intricate work of art,but I didn't see the process of
it being created. I didn't seehow the mothers in East Satangara
are sitting in their bigbackyards, chatting, telling
stories with each other,laughing or speaking with their
children and while doing theTenun, or sometimes in some
(20:58):
areas, they are still singingwhile doing the Tenun, or while
doing the woven while making thewoven fabric, which is very
beautiful. So it only occurs tome lately how beautiful this can
be like lately, when I did theresearch, I can see how, how
amazing art can be the glue insociety. Creating art, the act
(21:23):
of creating art is a way togather people, whether it's the
the woven fabric or thedance or the singing. Sometimes
it's not the art itself as thefocus, but actually the society.
I want to meet you. I want tosee you face to face. I want to
connect with you very deeply.And art is how we meet, and
(21:47):
that's very beautiful. And Ialso try to learn more about the
beautiful philosophy of theTenun itself, like knowing more
about how why it's circular, asin the form of it is, it's
tubular, like there is no end tothe circular shape of the
(22:07):
fabric. And how it's alsorelated to the dance, which is
also circular. And if we gomore, if we go deeper, it's also
related to spirituality, howit's all about micro cosmos and
micro cosmos and Macro Cosmos,how every human being is a
(22:29):
universe in itself, and how,like, for example, every person
who is wearing the Tenun whilealso doing the dance in circle
is also very beautiful layerhappening in one I don't know
how to express that in words,but that's I saw all of that in
awe and in new light. Andinstead of just seeing the as a
(22:55):
result, as a result of anobject,
yeah, as an object, it is,
it is something much more thanthat. It's something beyond
words. I don't know how toexplain that. Yeah,
because it weaves somethingbeautiful together, but it's
also weaving people together.
(23:16):
Yeah, yes, yes. So
you referred to spirituality,which is really interesting,
because I saw that one of theprojects we've referred to is,
if you like, led by the Spiritof Gotong Royong. Yeah and what
(23:36):
really interested me about thatis that goes to a traditional
Indonesian concept thatencourages people to work
together for the common good.And this is core to Indonesian
philosophy. And I think this isreally, really important. Yes,
true, true. And it's not only inEastern Satangara. The spirit of
(24:00):
Gotong Royong is something thatwe all as Indonesians hold very
dearly, and it's very, yeah,it's very, very related to the
collective way of living, whichcan be quite confusing if you
are now living in big cities inIndonesia, because we now living
in a quite individualisticculture, but also still holding
(24:24):
tightly to this Kotaraya, soyeah, we are still trying to
find out the balance between thetwo. It's
such an important emphasisbecause I think we've already
really responded to the factthat, as you've just said, the
emphasis on an individualizedlife, individual success,
(24:46):
individual empire building, alsoresults in such isolation and
alienation because the focus isso far away from collective well
being for. And collaborativepractices, whether you know,
through arts and culture, and itbasically deprives social
(25:08):
cohesion. And social cohesion isso important for mental health,
isn't it? Yes, yes, true. Soanother quote of yours I'd like
to use that you might be happyto expand on, because I think it
really reinforces what we'resaying is, by keeping our
(25:29):
culture alive and sharing itwith new generations, we're
creating a space where they feelproud and grounded. And I
thought grounded was a reallyimportant word,
yes, yes, true. I really, reallybelieve in how the art itself
can be a way of enhancing themental well being in this time
(25:56):
of confusion about, who am I,who am I, who who are we? What
is our identity? All the changesthat happen so rapidly, I
believe that if we establishagain the art within the system,
it really can help act as theglue for the society to work in
(26:18):
a very beautiful way, and alsoto help us enhance our well
being. Because in the past, forexample, when I did the
research, we don't really usethe word mental health, quote,
unquote or wellbeing, but forwhenever we ask the questions,
people say that they were veryhappy. They were very helped
(26:40):
with this. They are very healthyphysically as well by doing this
art practice regularly. And now,when the era changes, and people
start to forget that, and peoplestart to do it like more rarely,
this system kind of beingstripped off from their lives,
(27:02):
and there's no other thing thatis replacing it. So, yeah, I
think, I think I just have thisdream of like, being able to
not, maybe not reintroduce, buttrying to transform it in a way
that can be very relevant toyoung people as a generation
(27:22):
that can be very engaging andvery attractive to them as well,
and very useful and beneficialto them for this era, for this
time we live in, so that canstill be continued. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. You're talking aboutmental health, even if it's not
(27:42):
phrased in that way. We'retalking about mental health,
maintaining health and improvinghealth through being grounded in
cultural identity and culturalpractice, because of the
connection that it provides. Andit does seem that Indonesian
(28:03):
indigenous art practice respondsparticularly well in terms of
collective wellbeing, being anintention of those art
practices. And there's, there'sa piece of art that I'm
interested in, it's Embracing.It's from 2024, last year. It's
mixed media on paper, and thequestions you raised are, "where
(28:28):
and when can I feel safe to beweird, and where do I belong?"
And I really love that. I reallylove that, where and when can I
feel safe to be weird. I mean,I'd love to say, well, feel
weird all the time. You know,what a lovely state to be in,
but when you pose thosequestions, what kind of maybe
(28:50):
personal struggles or challengeswere you thinking about at the
time? Yeah, so that
one is related toneurodiversity. So I just
recently found out about my ADHDand autism, and I was fighting
or trying so hard for so long tofind out again identity. Who am
(29:11):
I? Where do I belong? Andsometimes I felt very afraid to
be different, even thoughneurologically, I am different,
and I try to fit in so much,into the boxes or into the
shapes that society wants. Ididn't have the courage to be
different and be quote, unquoteweird. But I'm not mentioning
(29:35):
weird in a bad way,
beautifully with beautifullyweird, beautiful exactly
like because when people arefree to express themselves as
they are, it is we can see theirbeautiful soul. It is very
beautiful to have someone beexpressive, someone be
(29:57):
themselves, someone show it in.Art or someone show it in how
they choose their clothes, howthey want to present themselves.
And I think it's also related tomy workshops, where I try to
invite people to expressthemselves freely, regardless of
(30:19):
what they think about. Artshould be this art should be
that. Art should be this good.Art should be this perfect,
which probably is being plantedto our minds since our childhood
in education, for example, artneeds to be having some A plus
grade, or you cannot draw orcolor outside of the line,
(30:43):
because everyone needs to be thesame, or everyone needs to be
doing it perfectly, even thoughart is something that can help
us express ourselves and findour weirdness beautiful, weird,
beautiful weirdness. Yeah, yeah.
And that can only happen if wehave the chance to explore
freely without being afraid ofgetting a C in art or
(31:07):
Yeah, and it goes back tosomething we were saying at the
beginning, really, it's reallyimportant to embrace the joy of
art, the joy of our culture,without thinking it's about
being marked. You know, is thisan A plus standards that that
could become entirelyirrelevant. It's about your
relationship with the art andthe benefits that you take from
(31:28):
it, and in terms of yourunderstanding of autism and
ADHD, did you feel a sense ofrelief that you could actually
take off the mask, the mask oftrying to fit in.
Yes, yes, I can finally breathewhen I can first acknowledge it,
(31:54):
accepting and embracing it asthe title of the artwork that
you mentioned, and to slowlyunlearn the skills that I tried
so hard to learn throughout myyears of life, to be like other
people and to be liked by otherpeople by not being weird or by
(32:18):
not being different. But I feellike we all have very unique
characteristic, neurodivergentor non or neurotypicals every
human being have theiruniqueness, and this is still
related, for example, to theparticipatory art that we were
talking about in Sol Oha. Forexample, everyone will sing or
(32:42):
improvise in their own style.There's a pattern that we will
follow so that this can beharmonious in some ways, but
when every individual in thiscollective is expressing
themselves, they will express itin their own way, and it's
celebrated and also in terms ofperfection. I remember
witnessing the dance wherepeople are just singing joyfully
(33:06):
without really thinking thattheir voice needs to be
beautiful or needs to assert anote. They just let it out and
and it sounds funny. People arelaughing, but not loving in non
not loving in a judgmental way.That's what I feel. It's just a
celebration, and everyone isjust being jolly. And that's one
(33:28):
example of how art can open thespace for people to experiment
with their own identity or theirown expression. And this is
something that I, for example,in my stage as a musician, I
sometimes ask people to sing,talk, to do improvisation
with like a call and response,like a call
(33:50):
and response, but not imitating,yes, conversing, yeah, with a
certain for example, forexample, with a certain number
of audience. Well, this maybecan only be done with a limited
number of audience. I will askquestions in song, what is your
name? Something like that. Iwill challenge them. I have,
come on, come on. You can try.Don't be afraid to try and you
(34:13):
reply to me, but by singing, andusually that brings a lot of
laughter and joy, and people arejust having fun trying something
new that they haven't triedbefore, and just all celebrated.
And
it is a beautiful act. And Ialso think you're really
cultivating healthy acts ofcourage, so encouraging people
(34:35):
to open up, to not worry aboutsinging whether they're good
enough, or painting whetherthey're good enough but to be
brave enough to just open up andto enjoy the process. But also,
I'm interested in your owncourage, because someone who's
neuro divergent and who has hadto wear a mask, or felt they had
(34:58):
to wear a mask. Is also an actof courage, isn't it that you
have to put yourself inpositions that aren't
necessarily natural orcomfortable to you? So it seems
a very generous act and a verycourageous act. Do you consider
it courageous? Is couragesomething that comes from your
culture?
(35:19):
That's a very interestingquestion to answer it. Yes. It's
a very courageous act. It takes,it took me a lot of time to be
able to slowly unmask and I feelthis is also a very common
experience that is felt by a lotof neurodivergence. For example,
(35:39):
I've been living without knowingit for 27 years. And for 27
years I created this system thathelped me survive, that helped
me thrive with the challenges,but also to unlearn something
that you have done for years.It's also a very hard thing to
do, but it's worth it, like it'sworth the fight, because I feel
(36:05):
like I need to be thiscourageous to overcome the big,
huge fear, to be vulnerable andto be seen as I am, even though
I know it might not be acceptedeasily, To be able to gain the
peace that I get afterwards,because all this masking, it
(36:26):
takes a lot of energy, takes alot of sacrifices, and it's
detrimental,
isn't it, because it'srestricting your expression and
who you are exactly
it it, it doesn't give the spacefor the expression to flow
authentically. So as an artist,is very important for us to be
(36:48):
authentic, to be honest, apouring out the art that comes
from the heart. But when wecan't do that because of this
mask, it is really hard to findyeah the way to be honest, while
you're still wearing the mask.So I think holistically, not
only in my art career, but alsoin my whole life, in my whole
(37:11):
system, is a fight worthfighting for. Yeah and
so,
because there is courage, such alot of courage involved in that
is, are there examples ofanybody? Could you know, is it
your mum, your grandma? Is itthe elders? How have you been
influenced, perhaps, to be braveenough? Has there been
(37:34):
influence, or have you simplyunderstood that it's just been
very necessary for you to bebrave.
Ah, yeah. I also have a reply toyour question earlier about
whether courage is Yeah, is alsoembedded in your culture and in
(37:58):
my family, for example, I thinkI have a lot of influence and
inspiration from my granddad. Mygrandfather is a very courageous
person. Is a very vocal person.Well, when he knows what
he wants, he has a goal. He willgo for it. He will fight for it.
(38:21):
He's I can see him as a truefighter, and I'm really in awe
with his courage. And I think Igot that from my grandpa, but
I'm speaking in my own language.So my grandfather is a
politician. He speaks very wellverbally. For example, he speaks
very well in his oration. Hewrote poems. He speak in
(38:45):
public. But for me, I think Ihave my strength in in the form
of melodies. I have my strengthin the form of colors and
shapes, and that's how I speakout my mind. And these beautiful
values can be poured withindifferent mediums, but still
(39:07):
send out the same strength. Andit's also related to the freedom
to use different mediums, ormultidisciplinary art, or you
can say this transdisciplinaryart. Now it's also important to
also encourage people to bechoosing their own medium, like
choosing your own weapon,because in terms of neuro
(39:30):
diversity as well and inclusion,we also try to advocate how
important it is for people tohave to have no fear in terms of
finding their own voice in theirchosen mediums. That's so
interesting. The example of yourgranddad is so significant
(39:53):
because, of course, the emphasisis on voice in whatever form
that's. Awaken, whether it's asinging voice, whether it's
political narrator, whether it'sweaving a story. We're talking
about voice, aren't we, all ofthe time, and I imagine that
being able to respect yourgrandfather, being prepared to
(40:18):
have a voice, to share hisvoice, to stand by his
principles is very significant,because you're able to do the
same through your art practice.You're not shying away from your
voice and from what you want tosay. Yeah,
yeah, yeah. And probably it'snot only my grandfather, like a
(40:40):
lot of people from our cultureis very vocal as well. When we
know that we we are fighting forsomething we really believe in,
be very vocal about it. And Ithink even though in my earlier
life, earlier years, I do nothave that kind of courage, but
also probably because I didn'tknow that I have a different way
(41:04):
of pouring that knowledge indifferent mediums. This is also
very important in inclusivityadvocacy and neurodiversity.
Yeah,
so I'd love to talk to you aboutmusic, because that's obviously
a huge part of who you are, youhave a beautiful voice. Thank
you. And no wonder you have over16,000 listeners on Spotify
(41:28):
alone. Thanks everyone who listened.And no, it's beautiful. And I
would love to know more abouthow your singing voice was
cultivated. You know, were youraised in a tradition of
singing, collective singing. Wasit influences in your family,
oral tradition being passed downor bearing in mind that you were
(41:49):
born into a city or urbancontext? Is it something that
you came to later when youwanted to explore your
traditional culture foryourself?
I think my family, they reallylove singing, especially from my
dad's family. I think almosteveryone in that family loves to
sing, and they have beautifulvoice, and I feel like it came
(42:14):
so naturally for us, to thepoint that when I was born and
raised in the city, my parentswere, like, very supportive of
me to pursue art as well ormusic. They put me in singing
classes when I was in highschool. And I think that helps
me. It helps me honing myskills. Probably also because I
(42:38):
wasn't born and raised in inEastern Tenggara where all these
cultures, all the singingpractices are happening. So in
these big cities, I am doing myway to learn to sing, to learn
to yeah, practice my voice, eventhough the context was very
stage based as a performance.It's something that you will be
(43:03):
judged. You have to be good.That's scary.
That's a scary
courage all over again. That's ascary space. And
I was like remembering when Ididn't do good enough in the in
those standards, I had aperiod of time where I stopped
singing all together. I wantpeople to know that I sing at
(43:25):
all and, like, a year or twoand, wow, that's terrible, like,
to have something you reallylove taken away from you because
of all this fear and all thiscompetition culture or Yeah, and
that's why I appreciate thecollective kind of singing and
art practice more, because I seethe beauty of it. Oh, my God,
(43:47):
this is very beautiful, like youdo art, not to show off, but do
you do art just because you doart?
Was it collective singing orcollective art that made you
brave enough to return tosinging.
I think it happened when I wasgoing back from that absence
(44:09):
from singing. I haven't startedyet, to do the research to the
Trip to the East or I haven'tstarted yet, but I found out
that it is my way of speaking,it is my way of sharing my
voice, just like we discussedbefore. And when I tried to stop
(44:33):
myself from doing that, I wasfeeling lost. If we were talking
about being grounded throughart, I didn't feel grounded at
that time. I felt who am I? Likemy it's very confusing time. And
when I was getting back to it,when it, when I got back to it,
I felt like, Okay, this. Ireally love it. I don't want to
(44:57):
be separated from it again. It'slike a passionate love. Love,
and you don't want to beseparated again from it. And
that's where I start to see myown heritage, for example, in a
new way as well. Oh, this ispitiful. So yeah,
and this is really interesting,because I felt this exactly what
(45:17):
came out of your learning withShivani Sen, and this is Songs
in Serenades, music and wellbeing so I'm interested,
obviously, in what you took. Sofor the listeners, Shivani Sen
is a Hindustani classicalsinger. She's trained for more
than 20 years. So this is areally intense, committed study,
(45:41):
wasn't it to her practice, butwhat I really liked is how
singing is her anchor in theworld. Because this really
relates, doesn't it to whatwe've been saying about
identity, belonging, theimportant sense of having an
anchor in the world,particularly in a crazy world,
(46:03):
and it sounds like that's therelationship you have with
singing, that it gives you ananchor.
Yes, yes. When I did the podcastwith Shivani, when I interviewed
her, I remember when we weretalking, we were both living in
London, right? And London is abig city, and the noises are
(46:24):
apparent, and I feel like weboth embody our own singing, our
own practices from two differentlocations where we are from. We
walk in between. We walk betweenthese buildings, bringing this
knowledge that is archivedwithin our body. It's embodied
within us, and it's so beautifulhow voice is like your writing,
(46:51):
but with your own vocal cord,like it is very Yeah, it is very
close to our body, and we feellike, if we are not careful, we
might be lost and not groundedin the places that well, that
(47:13):
that is very different from whatfrom what we are from, where we
are from, and to hold true toour own identity and ground
ourselves through art is alsovery important. And in my case,
in my neurodiversity experience,singing is my way to ground
(47:34):
myself whenever I feeloverwhelmed, sensory wise, for
example, it's my way ofstimming. When I produce sound,
I feel more grounded in my bodybecause I can feel the vibration
of my focal cord of or of mythroat producing the sound. I
(47:55):
can feel it resonance in mywhole body as an instrument. And
that brings me back to thepresent moment, instead of being
overwhelmed with the externalstimuli, which is very
overwhelming, especially forpeople with sensory
sensitivities. So for me, Icannot live without music. I
(48:18):
can, yeah, I always listen toit, yeah, and
it's similar, isn't it, to howpeople may focus on the breath
in meditation. It's another wayof anchoring exactly
yes. It's a form of meditation.It's a prayer.
Yeah. Dancers I've interviewedhave also talked about the
importance of rhythm throughdance, and how rhythm becomes
(48:41):
very transporting, even if theyhave and two examples, they were
dancers in life or deathsituations, and it was dance and
rhythm around those situationsthat enabled them to survive or
to cope. So it's very powerful,isn't it? This relationship,
(49:01):
yes, yes,
it's it's like meditation. It'ssomething repetitive. So for
example, when I do mindfuldrawing workshops where I invite
people to draw and be aware oftheir sensation making strokes
repetitively. It's so similarwith Sol Oha, dance, that
(49:22):
dance is also very meditative.In that way we are doing the
repetitive movement, and thatcreates a mental space for us to
improvise, to tell a story usingmelodies. So it's just very
amazing how beautiful art canbe. Yeah. It can be very, very
beautiful. Yeah.
I'm really interested in talkingto you about the five songs in
(49:45):
Leah's Universe, because of thethemes around home, a sense of
home, but also alienation,acceptance, but also isolation.
And you also talk about freedomand growth. And so I'm really
interested in what you mightlike to share from those
(50:07):
particular five songs youfocused on. I know you included
personal archives in terms ofhow you presented the work,
particularly in view of what wewere just saying, in terms of
how your singing voice helps youanchor yourself in the world, so
when you're dealing with issuesor themes like acceptance and
(50:31):
isolation or home andalienation, yeah, what was the
purpose for you to create Leah'sUniverse? Oh, wow. I
think, I think it's also stillvery related to how
contradictions are very apparentin the Lamaholot culture, for
(50:52):
example, we have songs that areactually have a very sad lyrics,
but song in a very joyful way.
And these are very interesting.Yeah. And
it's like celebrating, like, twosides of a coins, celebrating
two differently, two extremelydifferent things as part of
(51:13):
life. And I think that's alsowhat I want to pour into
Leah's Universe.I'm talking about, as you say,
very beautifully, talking abouthome, but also alienation, and
that can happen at the sametime. And that can also happen
when you're being in a in aplace geographically, but not
(51:36):
feeling home, or you areactually being very happy about
something, but also there's asadness underneath that you want
to express through art. And Ithink the contradiction is
something that I want to share,and also I kind of want to that
is one way of me learning on howto express my struggles as a
(52:05):
neurodivergent. I didn't knowbefore, what was it when I
created this songs and thisproject, I wasn't diagnosed yet,
so I was still being feelingvery lost and not knowing what's
happening, and that's the onlyway I know how to express it,
(52:25):
while trying to learn about myown culture as well. So
you created this body of work,Leah's universe before your
diagnosis, and now you've hadyour diagnosis, and you reflect
back on that work, you canprobably see so much more
clearly what your struggle was.Yeah,
(52:48):
and when I saw my face in thatvideo, singing those words in
confusion, I felt a huge surgeof compassion seeing my past
self is very confused, but stillfighting to still express her
(53:10):
her feelings through art, eventhough she doesn't know what is
happening, even though she'sstruggling so much. And I felt
like it's like a time capsulemachine, like I got transported
back to that time and realizedhow far I have grown, and
realized how how hard it was forme and my compassion also goes
(53:33):
for other people in Indonesia,for example, in my community,
who are still confused abouttheir neurodiversity, for
example, who are, who are notdiagnosed yet, who are not
having the access yet to findout more about themselves or get
some accommodation that theydeserve. And I felt like this is
(53:55):
something that I want to fightmore, not only for myself, but
also for other people who arewho is also struggling with the
same things, and
having the chance to respectyourself, to respect your
journey. I imagine that'simportant when you look back, if
you take that example, you knowyou look back at that body of
work, clear universe after beingdiagnosed, and you can
(54:19):
understand what you werestruggling how and why, you
could articulate it better. Youcould be at more peace with it
just through understanding, butat the same time, be able to
respect yourself for being thatperson who is brave enough to
keep going. Yeah, yeah, true.There's another song I'd like to
(54:40):
ask you about because I knowtime has really flown by. And
this is a song you wrote for amusical. It was directed by Garin
Film.
Oh, by Garin. Yes, yeah.And you
performed this live on KartiniNational Day in Indonesia.
And for the listeners. Iunderstand that Kartini is a
(55:01):
female national hero celebratedevery year on April the 21st and
Kartini was a women's rights andeducation advocate. So Kartini
helped raise the social statusof Indonesian women
significantly. I'm reallyinterested in how you respond to
(55:23):
Kartini and how you responded tocreating that particular song.
Yeah, so this song
was created bythe request of Gary Nugroho to
be to be performed first in hismusical called Ayun Ayun Negeri,
(55:44):
It is a song about this bigdream for our beloved country.
This is a song that I alsoperformed in Kartini Day,
produced by Opia Neresta, one oflegendary Indonesian female
singers, not the Kartini Day, butthere's an event that she
(56:05):
produced for the Kartini Day.And I sang that song in the
spirit of the Kartini who wroteletters. So talking again about
weapon, how Kartini voiced hervoice using words and letters, I
feel like us as new generationsor as artists, for example, we
(56:31):
have different ways of usingdifferent weapons to also voice
our aspiration about our owncountry and this, this song is
actually a prayer. So the lyricsare (INA SINGS)
(INA SINGS)
(56:52):
Kartini, this dream is very simpleto witness this country, not,
not anymore being engulfed bysadness and grief and struggles
and on the end, on the, onthe chorus, we have this
realization that the dream isnot that simple to fulfill so
(57:19):
but in the end of the song. Ialso invite the young people to
embody the Kartini spirit, todo it with your own way, to
fight, to give impact, to makedifferences, no matter how
little it is, little or big, totry to find your own way, to use
(57:41):
your own weapon, to use your ownvoice in a different medium. So
yeah, it's
particularly nice to highlightbecause this season, season
eight, is first published onFebruary the 20th, which is the
United Nations Day for SocialJustice. And I loved that you
have this, you know, thisnational day celebrating
(58:04):
Kartini, who obviously hasadvocated for women's rights and
education. And would you sayKartini is influence is just as
important in now, today, inIndonesia?
Oh yes, of course. She's a verybig inspiration, especially for
us girls and females inIndonesia to we are still
(58:29):
fighting for the equal rights aswe are also having big
patriarchy culture, and lots ofpeople are still sometimes
underestimating females for youknow, being a front lead in the
music group, or voicing yourvoice in your art, for example,
(58:51):
we are still fighting that. AndI think when we go back, we see,
we look back to Kartinin's fight, and we know that she's
starting all this fight that Ifeel like it's it's really hard
to do at that time, is there'sso much at stake. And nowadays
there's lot of pathways havebeen opened by the people before
(59:14):
us, and I think we need tocontinue it as the new
generation, and the spirit andthe inspiration is still very
strong.
It's another story of of hugecourage, isn't it? Courage.
That's
that's a huge story of courage.Yes.
So Gabriella, I'm afraid thehour has flown by. I mean, it's
(59:35):
a pleasure, it always goesso fast. I would of course like
to ask you what your response isto the series question. There's
no right or wrong answer at all,because I think the more varied
answers we have, the better. Buthow do you respond to the idea,
can art save us? Ah,
(59:57):
I really like this question.Actually. I. Really like the
title of the podcast, can artsave us?
Because I feel like lots ofpeople are underestimating art
power in all medium that it hasto offer, like lots of people
are, are seeing art as atertiary need or as a hobby or
(01:00:19):
as something you know that isnot important, but how you put
that into the sentence, how art?How can arts save us? Or can art
save us? Is actually a verystrong statement in itself,
because you're trying toadvocate, or you're trying to
(01:00:40):
spread the word, or even makepeople think and ask to
themselves, can art save us?
Yeah, it advocates and itprovokes at the same time. Yeah,
exactly.
And for my career, my artpractice, I always, always say,
art is a beautiful tool, andit's not only and for
(01:01:01):
entertainment purpose, it canhave a very transformative power
in our lives, if being takencare of very delicately or in a
very or contradictively in avery strong way. And I would
love more and more people to beable to have this belief that
(01:01:24):
art can help us, art can saveus. Art can make us thrive in
life. Art can help us as a tool.Art can transform us. So, yeah,
it's more than just just anentertainment or just a hobby.
(01:01:46):
Well, not saying that art as ahobby is a bad thing. No, not at
all. It's a really good thing.But it has lots of power that
can be unleashed to the world.Yeah,
it has a very active state,doesn't it. It has very clear
functions in terms of how wecultivate our own health,
whether it's mental health orsocial health. I can't thank you
(01:02:09):
enough for your time. Its really been lovely to talk to
you. I've been so interested inin your work, in your culture.
I'm very excited to say you'rethe first artist who can share
Indonesian culture with us. It'sa real honor to be able to
explore your cultural richeswith you, and thank you for
(01:02:30):
sharing all of your ideas andthoughts. I do hope you keep
singing, and I do hope that youwill stay beautifully weird.
I will stay beautifully weird.Thank you so
much, Paula. And for thelisteners, I will sign post on
Gabriella's page, links to herwebsite, also to Spotify, do go
(01:02:50):
and treat yourself to her music.And please do share this
episode, other episodes or theseries wherever you can and help
make art all of ours. Thank youvery much for listening. Hey.
Thank you so much. Paula, thankyou so much everyone.
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